HerMoney with Jean Chatzky – Ep 504: Is College Still Worth It? Ric Edelman Helps Us Rethink Everything

Date: December 3, 2025
Host: Jean Chatzky
Guest: Ric Edelman (Financial Advisor, Author of "The Truth About College")

Episode Overview

This episode of HerMoney with Jean Chatzky tackles the pressing question: Is college still worth it? Renowned financial advisor Ric Edelman joins Jean to challenge long-held assumptions about the value, purpose, and payoff of higher education. Together, they dig into when college makes sense, highlight alternative pathways, assess the true cost and potential pitfalls of the college journey today, and discuss what both young people and parents can do to make smarter, less risky decisions. They also explore the value of lifelong learning and preparing for a fulfilling, financially secure retirement.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Challenging the Conventional Wisdom Around College

• The College Path Isn’t Automatic Anymore

  • Jean opens by examining how, for decades, college was seen as the guaranteed route to success, but now student debt and changing job markets make it worth questioning.
    • "Today, I gotta say, the equation looks a whole lot different." (02:10)

• Ric's Take on the Modern College Dilemma

  • Ric acknowledges many benefits of college, citing higher lifetime earnings, better health, and lower divorce rates for graduates.
  • However, the stats are sobering: high dropout rates, average debt of $42,000, and a significant percentage never working in fields related to their degree—even 10 or 20 years out.
    • "College can be the path to prosperity and happiness—only about half the time." (04:20)
    • "Going to college today is really nothing more than a flip of a coin." (04:56)
  • The old certainty of ROI (return on investment) is gone.

2. Making Smarter, Personalized Choices (06:48–09:23)

• Dispelling the ‘Coin Flip’ – Avoiding Guesswork

  • Jean pushes back that the “coin flip” is only true if people go in blind; Ric agrees, emphasizing self-awareness and research before making expensive choices.
  • Teens often lack direction—80% are undecided/undeclared, 30% switch colleges, which increases costs/delays graduation.

• The Realities Have Changed

  • 20, 30, or 40 years ago, college was far more affordable and forgiving of mistakes. Today, costs of $100K–$400K mean thoughtful planning is essential.
  • Impact of AI and technology must be considered in any future career plans.

3. Alternatives to the Traditional College Path (10:44–15:39)

• Options Beyond Immediate College Enrollment
  • Taking a gap year, working, traveling, exploring community college, enrolling in the military or AmeriCorps, dual enrollment/AP classes: all legit, valuable paths.
  • Exposure to careers through shadowing and real-world experience is critical before committing to a field.
    • "But that doesn't mean you need to matriculate at $75,000 a year to figure that out." (11:47)
  • The biggest barriers: lack of awareness and social stigma.
    • "Parents want to brag, quite frankly, my kid's going to Vanderbilt...they don't want to say...my kid's going to community college." (12:31)
    • High schools and their staff are often incentivized to send as many students as possible to four-year institutions.

4. Calculating College’s Worth: Lifestyle, Not Just Career (13:29–16:02)

• Ric’s Framework: Beyond Passion to Practicality

  • It's vital to calculate the likely lifestyle afforded by a career, not just whether one enjoys the subject.
    • "If you’re going to spend a quarter of a million dollars to get that degree, saddling you with $100,000 of student loan debt...you’re not going to be able to buy a house, buy a car." (14:13)
  • Student loan repayment is delaying milestones like home-buying, marriage, and having children.

• Rule of Thumb for Debt

  • Jean relays Mark Kantrowitz’s rule: Don't borrow more for all four years than your expected first-year salary.
  • Ric prefers aiming for zero debt:
    • "Your goal really should be to emerge from college with zero debt...graduate in four years, debt free, on the dean’s list, ready to enter a career." (16:24)
    • He stresses that many routes to free or low-cost degrees exist: free community college in 35 states, tuition reimbursement by employers, military, apprenticeships.

5. Helping Struggling College Students (17:25–19:57)

• Action Steps for Parents and Guardians

  • Recognize and acknowledge when a student is struggling—don’t just “wait and hope.”
  • Mental health is a crisis:
    • "50% of college undergrads have been diagnosed with depression." (18:22)
    • High rates of attempted/successful suicides in college students.
  • Normalizing the idea of pausing or withdrawing—it’s fine to take a break and return later (“30% of students are over age 25”).

• Jean’s Family Story

  • Jean shares a personal story about her father, who found his passion (radio) after time in the Army and then thrived at college as an older student.

6. Great, High-Earning Careers Without a College Degree (21:32–22:28)

• Examples Ric Highlights:
  • Airline pilots ($102K average salary), police detectives, dental hygienists—all in high demand, no four-year degree required.
  • Entering the workforce earlier also builds retirement savings sooner (six more years of 401(k) contributions, etc.).

7. Which Careers Will Be Threatened by AI? (22:37–24:35)

• Automation’s Impact
  • AI and robotics are taking over jobs—examples: landscapers (automated mowers, robotics), warehouse workers, bricklayers.
  • Even white-collar roles like accountants are vulnerable as automation and tax software becomes more sophisticated.
    • "We're always going to need accounting, but we're not going to need accountants..." (23:53)

8. Future-Proof Skills and the Case for Liberal Arts (24:35–26:18)

• Four Future-Proof Abilities (Ric):

  1. Thinking
  2. Creating
  3. Managing (people, processes, machines)
  4. Communicating
  • "Your ability to communicate the knowledge is what sets you apart...that skill set is irreplaceable. Technology isn’t going to undo that." (25:13)

• Liberal arts unexpectedly more valuable as AI rises—teaches adaptability, critical thinking.

• Jean’s Anecdote

  • A Penn professor said philosophy majors are now in high demand.

9. Lifelong Learning, Especially for Older Adults (26:18–29:30)

• The New Normal: Constant Education

  • Many in their 50s, 60s, and beyond are investing in education—courses, conferences, boot camps.
  • Lifelong learning as the key to ongoing brain health, fulfillment, and even entrepreneurship.
    • "People 65+ have time and money, and they're happy to spend both on learning." (27:52)
  • Colleges are catering to older learners—the economics of higher ed are shifting with “birth dearths” and demographic changes.

• Jean’s Example:

  • Her semi-retired husband is taking Russian history at Penn for personal fulfillment.

10. Retirement Reimagined (29:30–32:03)

• Ric’s Three Keys for Modern Retirement
  1. Accept that retirement as we knew it is obsolete; people will likely live to 95–115+ and need money to last.
  2. Supplement retirement income with “chapter two” work—gig jobs, part-time work, entrepreneurship, volunteering.
  3. Stay engaged and active; doing so is a powerful defense against cognitive decline.
  • "Don't get scared. Don't get upset. It's not bad news. What it means is you're healthier at 65 than your parents were...And this gives you a huge opportunity to enter your next chapter." (30:38)
  • Retirement should be seen as reinvention, not withdrawal.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On college as a coin flip:
  "Going to college today is really nothing more than a flip of a coin. And that's a pretty lousy scenario for freshmen college students and their parents."
  —Ric Edelman (04:56)

• On the real college ROI:
  "If we have our eyes wide open...we can make a more sober, mature, reasoned decision. And that decision, maybe, just maybe, might be let's not go to college or...let's not go to college immediately."
  —Ric Edelman (08:57)

• On alternative timelines:
  "It's okay to pause. It's okay for the child to tour the country, tour the world for a year or two...It's one of the benefits of college is the exposure to what's there, but that doesn't mean you need to matriculate at $75,000 a year to figure that out."
  —Ric Edelman (11:03-11:47)

• On lifestyles:
  "What is the lifestyle that the career you're thinking about is going to provide for you? ... Let's evaluate the college path not just in terms of what career am I going to get, but what lifestyle am I going to enjoy."
  —Ric Edelman (15:10)

• On debt-free graduation:
  "Your goal really should be to emerge from college with zero debt...If you can't, maybe the child shouldn't go to college."
  —Ric Edelman (16:24)

• On the power of communication:
  "Your ability to communicate the knowledge is what sets you apart. That skill set is irreplaceable. Technology isn’t going to undo that."
  —Ric Edelman (25:13)

• On learning in later years:
  "People 65+ have time and money, and they're happy to spend both on learning. So it's a wonderful way to stay engaged, keep your brain active, stay socially connected, and...enter your next chapter."
  —Ric Edelman (27:52)

• On retirement and longevity:
  "Retirement as we knew it is dead. It's obsolete...What you're doing is reinventing yourself as you enter simply the next chapter of your life."
  —Ric Edelman (30:50–32:03)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 02:10 – Jean frames the changing college debt/ROI conversation
• 04:20 – Ric’s summary of college payoff & new pitfalls
• 06:48 – Discussion of why the “coin flip” narrative exists and how to defeat the randomness
• 10:44 – How to make smart college and career decisions without clear direction
• 12:31 – The social stigma and “FOMO” around alternate pathways
• 13:29 – Costs, consequences, and the importance of evaluating lifestyle
• 16:24 – Ric’s argument for zero college debt and free/low-cost degree options
• 18:22 – Alarming mental health statistics among college students
• 21:32 – High-earning jobs that don’t require a college degree
• 23:53 – How AI and automation threaten traditional office and trades jobs
• 25:13 – The enduring relevance of creative and communication skills
• 27:52 – Lifelong learning as the new standard for older adults
• 30:09 – Reinventing retirement in a longevity economy

Conclusion

Ric Edelman and Jean Chatzky offer a bracingly honest, data-backed, and practical conversation about the value and alternatives to the traditional college path. Listeners come away with a clear, actionable framework for evaluating their own or their children’s educational choices, an appreciation for lifelong learning at any age, and encouragement to approach both college investment and retirement planning with open eyes, adaptable expectations, and self-knowledge.

Recommended: Ric Edelman's book "The Truth About College" for parents, students, and lifelong learners alike.