Ep 514: Why Every Woman Needs a “F*ck Off Fund” — And How It Evolves as You Age

Summary

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Episode Overview

Podcast: HerMoney with Jean Chatzky
Episode: Ep 514: Why Every Woman Needs a “F*ck Off Fund” — And How It Evolves as You Age
Host: Jean Chatzky
Guest: Paulette Perhach, writer, speaker, coach
Date: February 11, 2026

This episode centers on the transformative power of what Paulette Perhach famously coined the “F*ck Off Fund”: a personal emergency reserve that empowers women to leave situations—be it jobs, relationships, or anything else—that don’t serve them. The discussion explores how the fund’s meaning and purpose evolve throughout different life stages, why storytelling trumps statistics in inspiring change, and practical strategies for creating financial options and autonomy at any age.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Story Behind the “F*ck Off Fund”

• Origin & Lasting Impact
  • Paulette describes writing her viral essay during a low-point in her creative career, sparked by an accountability pact with a friend ([06:12–07:57]).
  • She credits the essay's impact to “the power of storytelling applied to wisdom that's been around for thousands of years” ([06:12]), emphasizing how emotion, not just information, incites action.
  • Quote:

    “What was so beautiful … was that it took the power of storytelling and applied it to wisdom that's been around for thousands of years and created this energy and this power.”
    —Paulette Perhach [06:12]

2. How Having a Financial Cushion Changes Options

• Having even a modest sum ($5,000–10,000) in the bank can radically alter one’s ability to exit uncomfortable or harmful situations ([07:58–08:17]).
• Paulette recounts negotiating her salary against advice, resulting in a $100,000 difference (over three years), which allowed her to pay off debts and have her first true financial safety net ([07:01]).

3. The “Fund” Is More Than Money

• Building Options Beyond Cash
  • Recognizing her ADHD diagnosis illuminated the roots of past “financial chaos” ([08:43]).
  • Paulette highlights that options can also come from social support (like friends agreeing to offer a safe couch) or developing skills/side hustles ([08:43–10:04]).
  • Quote:

    “There are so many other ways to create options… if I need to make $5,000, like, this is what I'm gonna do. This is gonna be my side hustle.”
    —Paulette Perhach [08:43]

4. The Amount Is Deeply Personal

• “F*ck off” funds don’t have to be huge; even $250 can cover a hotel for a couple nights if you need a quick exit ([10:36]).
• The appropriate sum depends on life circumstances: city vs. rural living, caregiving responsibilities, number of dependents ([10:36–11:21]).
• Quote:

  “You have to say f*ck off a lot of little times before you can say the big one.”
  —Paraphrased by Jean Chatzky [10:04]

5. Recognizing When It’s Time to Use the Fund

• Mindset Shift
  • Many women pride themselves on toughness and “making do,” but Paulette encourages raising internal standards for relationships and work ([12:05]).
  • Visualizing “if I had any choice, would I choose this?” as a core litmus test ([12:05–13:20]).

6. Practical Structure: Psychological Tricks & Automation

• Labeling & Segregating Money
  • Keeping the fund in a separate account with a meaningful name helps reinforce its purpose ([13:36]).
  • Visualizing the outcome—“typing up a resignation letter and getting excited to turn it in one day”—boosts motivation over short-term spending ([13:36–14:56]).
• Behavioral Economics Tactics
  • Automating savings, adding friction to access, and making goals social with friends (“accountabilibuddies”) build consistency and support ([15:33–18:06]).
  • Quote:

    “We are absolutely not calculators… we’re just like these evolved creatures that did not evolve for the situation that we were in currently. And you have to play tricks on yourself.”
    —Paulette Perhach [15:33]

7. The Power of Storytelling for Future Generations

• Teaching girls and young women to spot abuse, manipulative behavior, and unhealthy power dynamics is vital—ideally, before they “find out the hard way” ([20:05]).
• Encourage self-love and setting standards that reject harmful situations ([20:05–21:14]).

8. Retirement & the Fund’s Evolution

• The F*ck Off Fund becomes more serious with age; stakes are higher, and responsibilities may include caring for aging parents ([22:35]).
• Owning your financial future means confronting hard truths: “no one is coming to save you … it is not cute if it does not go well” ([22:35–23:55]).
• Quote:

  “The highest luxury you've known is being taken care of by the woman you were last year and taking care of the woman that you'll be in the future.”
  —Paulette Perhach, cited by Jean Chatzky [22:12]

9. Dealing with Financial Fear and Fragility

• Even well-prepared women can feel financially fragile—especially with societal risks (e.g., medical debt) ([24:40]).
• Addressing fear means acknowledging, naming, and making contingency plans “A, B, and C”—often leading to relief ([24:40–27:06]).
• Paulette illustrates the value of backup housing (with her sister), business valuation in net worth, and honest self-reflection ([25:43–27:06]).

10. Starting Late: Building the Fund at Any Age

• Older women face added challenges—ego, social expectations, and the pain of scaling back ([27:52–29:45]).
• Paulette recommends honesty with yourself and your friends, keeping your “big yes” front and center as motivation for sacrifice.

11. “F*ck Off Fund University” — Intensive Self-Education

• Proposes an intentional, bootcamp-style year of financial learning, monthly reading goals, and accountability to jumpstart financial autonomy ([29:45–31:18]).
• Quote:

  “Saying for this year I am going to become a financial expert and I'm going to learn things in finances that are going to make it easier for the rest of my life.”
  —Paulette Perhach [30:08]

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Notable Quotes & Moments with Timestamps

• “It took the power of storytelling and applied it to wisdom that's been around for thousands of years…” —Paulette Perhach [06:12]
• “I had a nice cushion in my bank account… wow, that would have really gone differently if I had had 5, $10,000 in the bank.” —Paulette Perhach [07:58]
• “If you have four children, that's going to be a lot different than someone who's single… What do those numbers mean for your life?” —Paulette Perhach [10:36]
• “Imagine you have any choice. Would you choose this if you had whatever choice you wanted?” —Paulette Perhach [12:05]
• “One of my budgets is called Financial Independence Here We Come. That’s what the f*ck off fund did, is it visualized that moment and it puts the emotion in your body.” —Paulette Perhach [13:36]
• “You have to play tricks on yourself… when you automate those savings every week… that becomes your new floor.” —Paulette Perhach [15:33]
• “Any woman who respects, loves and honors herself and has choices is not going to stay in any abusive situation and you have to know that you are worth more.” —Paulette Perhach [20:05]
• “It's not cute if it does not go well. So it’s no joking.” —Paulette Perhach [23:55]
• “If I could not afford rent anymore, what would I do?… Can I move in with you for six months and be your housekeeper and your personal chef for free rent?” —Paulette Perhach [26:31]
• “This year my focus is XYZ… once a month I'm gonna read at least one financial book and make yourself a curriculum and get some accountability…” —Paulette Perhach [30:08]

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Suggested Listening Map (Timestamps)

• Introduction to the “F*ck Off Fund” concept: [05:51–08:17]
• Personal evolution and the meaning of options: [08:17–10:04]
• Financial fund size and recognizing “exit” moments: [10:04–12:05]
• Behavioral finance, automation, and visualization tips: [13:20–18:06]
• Teaching the next generation and self-worth: [19:44–21:14]
• Retirement, planning, and fear management: [22:12–27:06]
• Late-starters and overcoming ego: [27:52–29:45]
• Year-long “F*ck Off Fund University” self-education: [29:45–31:18]

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Conclusion & Further Resources

• Find more by Paulette:
  pauletteperhatch.com and Powerhouse Writers for women’s storytelling and writing community ([31:28]).
• Jean highlights the importance of financial community and continued self-advocacy for all stages of womanhood ([31:45]).

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Overall Tone:
Insightful, compassionate, often humorous, with direct language and practical wisdom. Jean Chatzky moderates with understanding, while Paulette Perhach blends candid storytelling, tactical advice, and emotional resonance throughout the conversation.

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For listeners:
This episode is a must for women seeking financial empowerment, regardless of age or circumstance. It offers both practical guidance and a much-needed motivational nudge to cultivate true options—and freedom—in your financial life.

Transcript

[Jean Chatzky]

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[Paulette Perhach]

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[Jean Chatzky]

Hey everyone and welcome to Her Money. I'm Jean Chatky. There's a kind of financial freedom that we don't talk about nearly enough. Not the kind that shows up on a net worth statement, but the kind the kind that gives you options. The kind that lets you walk away from a bad situation or say no when something doesn't feel quite right and know that you will still be okay. Years ago, today's guest gave that idea a name that stuck and for many, many women it became a light bulb moment. Paulette, perhaps, is a writer and speaker whose essay about building a Fuck off fund has been circulating for nearly a decade. Really, it's still resonating, perhaps even more now than when it was first written. But today we're going to take that idea a little further. We're going to talk about how financial independence evolves over a lifetime. What it looks like when you are just starting out. What it looks like when you are juggling caregiving and your career. What it looks like as you approach retirement and want your work to be may be optional, not all that mandatory. We'll talk about how much is enough and why stories, not statistics, are often what change behavior. We'll Talk about how women who've lived a little longer can help daughters and nieces and younger women avoid feeling trapped. Because when you zoom out, this isn't just about an emergency fund. It's about building a life that has choices and passing that power on. Stay with us. When I first started HerMoney, it felt like I had to figure it all out alone. Scripts, tech, design, promotion. The list was never ending. Every day brought new tasks that I just hadn't planned for. I would have loved having Shopify in my corner. Shopify is like having a built in business partner. It helps you run your online store from top to bottom. Inventory, payments, marketing, analytics, all in one place. They even offer you hundreds of beautiful templates so that your store looks just like you. And if you're stuck, They've got award winning 24. 7 support and tools that simplify your work. From AI written product descriptions to social and email campaigns. Campaigns that actually convert so that you can spend more time growing your dream and less time chasing tabs. Start your business today with the industry's best best business partner, Shopify and start hearing. Sign up for your $1 per month trial today at shopify.comhermoney go to shopify.comhermoney that's shopify.comhermoney this time of year, everyone's talking about new goals. Saving more spending, less paying off debt. But at Hermoney we like to get specific. Take Haley, our producer. She and her husband just realized they've got a full year of weddings. One in Miami, one in Poland, another in nyc. Plus engagement parties in between. And as joyful as weddings are, they are not cheap. That's why Haley turned to Monarch, a personal finance tool that helps you plan ahead, not just look back. Monarch pulls everything into one beautiful dashboard. Your budget, your accounts, your investments, and lets you project forward. Haley knows exactly what she needs to save now so she can say yes to all the fun without falling behind. Set yourself up for financial success in 2026 with Monarch, the all in one tool that makes proactive money management simple all year long. Use code [e-mail] for half off your year. That's 50% off your first year at monarch.com with code hermoney Paulette perhaps welcome to her money.

[Paulette Perhach]

Hi. Thank you so much for having me.

[Jean Chatzky]

Thank you so much for being here. So your essay has been circulating for almost a decade now. When you look back at it today, what do you think it was about? That particular piece of writing and what holds true now and what feels Different?

[Paulette Perhach]

Well, what I love about it is that I am not saying anything new. And so many people who want to tell stories, write stories, or, you know, pass along a message say, well, why would anyone want to care what I have to say? I don't have anything new to say. And what was so beautiful about it was that it took the power of storytelling and applied it to wisdom that's been around for thousands of years and created this energy and this power. And that as a creative writer, that was such a joy for me to see that, yes, we need people to be telling stories in all different ways, because what it did is it applied emotion to the information. And that's where I think a lot of people forget that we need that. And that's what artists create is emotion.

[Jean Chatzky]

Where were you in your life when you wrote it? What was going on?

[Paulette Perhach]

So I was trying to be a creative writer, and a friend and I were actually having kind of a low point in our word. Like, my friend was like, I don't even feel like I'm a writer anymore. So we created an accountability measure. Once a month, we were gonna exchange an essay. And so we put on the calendar, are you even a writer on that day that we had to exchange an essay, like, yes, here's my essay. And I was taking classes. And, you know, I came from a chaotic financial background, and I had been a small town reporter. And then I joined Peace Corps. And when I came back, it was 2010. So it was just like, time to just get a job, Right? So I got a job at a tech company. I love this. I was reading a lot of books about how to get a job. I knew you should negotiate, even though someone encouraged me not to negotiate because I really needed a job. I asked for 5,000 more. They said, what about commission? Because I was writing proposals. And that was $100,000 difference over three years.

[Jean Chatzky]

W. Good for you.

[Paulette Perhach]

Paid off my student loans with that. And so for the first time in my life, I had a nice cushion in my bank account. And I thought back to situations I'd been in in my life, and like, wow, that would have really gone differently if I had had 5, $10,000 in the bank.

[Jean Chatzky]

What would have gone differently?

[Paulette Perhach]

Situations in which I was uncomfortable, jobs where my boss made me uncomfortable, relationships where I lived with someone. But, you know, it's a lot easier make excuses when you don't really have a plan for if something is unacceptable.

[Jean Chatzky]

Where are you today and what's your perspective on this? Sort of fun now.

[Paulette Perhach]

So since that story came Out. I have been diagnosed with adhd. I realized where the financial chaos came from in my life. So that diagnosis was huge. And so I'm now teaching people about adhd. I am so much more of a businesswoman now. And what was cool about that story is that it introduced me to, to so many of the financial leaders in the space. And so I had all these wonderful entrepreneurial examples of women making great money for themselves. And so I'm as much of a businesswoman as I am a writer. I take responsibility for making my own money. I feel unapologetic about making good money, but I'm still me, you know, it didn't like solve my pilots of financial chaos person. But I have a good. I have this automated baseline. And I also understand now that this fund can also be like. Your options can be financial, but if you're like, well, I don't have any money saved, what are my options? Talk to your friends, say, hey, can we make a pact that, like, we'll never be in an abusive situation? Can I stay on your couch for three months and clean and cook in order to earn my keep so that I don't have to stay in an abusive relationship? There are so many other ways to create options to be entrepreneurial, to have a way in which I know if I need to make $5,000, like, this is what I'm gonna do. This is gonna be my side hustle.

[Jean Chatzky]

I think that's an important point because when people hear the phrase fuck off, fun. And honestly, I never say that word on this show. This is the second podcast this week where I've said it, so something is brewing. But they imagine, I think, a big number. And you said that the amount is deeply personal. And in a follow up piece that you wrote that you have to say fuck off a lot of little times before you can say the big one. Explain that to me.

[Paulette Perhach]

So I think it's knowing, what does this cost? Right now I live in New York City and woo, that number has got another zero on it, right? But I also speak Spanish and I would be very comfortable just being like, well, I can move down to Mexico for six months and live very cheaply. I think it's knowing for your life. What is that number? Okay, I saved my first 250. That's my first two nights in a hotel, right? To figure out if I need to get out of a situation. Okay, I saved a thousand. That buys me two weeks to look for a new job. What do those numbers mean for your life? If you have four children that's gonna be a lot different than someone who's single. If you live in an expensive city, that's a lot different than someone who you know is living in a suburban or a low cost of living state.

[Jean Chatzky]

When you think about using this money, how do you recognize the scenarios where you actually do need to start thinking about bailing yourself out? Because I think you're right. I think we've all been in these scenarios where we make excuses, we deal with uncomfortability, we deal with things that feel not okay, but we've dealt with them for so long that we just let them slide. How do you recognize when you're at the point where you have to take some action or at least give yourself a little distance?

[Paulette Perhach]

I think it starts with mindset. And I recognize from myself there are ways in which I identify with, oh, I can. I can work under any circumstances, I can put up with anything. I'm such a trooper. Right, right. And I think a lot of us who maybe grew up with kind of you get what you get, attitude and mentality, recognizing a higher, maybe like a higher vibe, you might say of, no, I want to be with people and I want to be in situations that feel very empowering. Not just acceptable, but empowering. And I feel like I would choose this if I had any choice, I would choose this. Right. And I've talked about when I was freelancing, kind of, that clients are the luxury shoppers and they have any choice because there's so many freelancers. Imagine you have any choice. What would you choose? This if you had whatever choice you wanted and giving yourself more and more choice and raising your standards higher and higher. I think that has been a great joy of my life and really respecting not just there's like acceptable behavior, but then there's being impressed and admiring everyone you work with and so facilitating that you can move up that scale, almost like a hierarchy of needs within your working environment and your personal environment. That is such a joy.

[Jean Chatzky]

When we talk about the structure of having this pool of money, you recommend keeping it separate, labeling it with specific purposes. What's the psychological argument behind these suggestions?

[Paulette Perhach]

Yes, it's so important to visualize. One of my budgets is called Financial Independence Here we Come. And you know, that's what the fuck off Fun did, is it visualized that moment and it puts the emotion in your body. And there's a book by Chip and Dan Heath that I really love called Switch how to Change When Change is Hard. And you know, he talks about how you. Yes, you need the clear path. And you need the information, but you also need the emotional impetus. They relate it to riding an elephant that you can say, we want to go in this direction, but if the elephant's not on board, like, you're not going in that direction. Right. So when you feel that emotion, it's the same thing with visualizing, where you just get really excited about, like, oh, I. I can't wait. You know, the one thing that I really want to do next is go on safari. And so I want to just picture myself out, seeing a lion out in nature. That gets me so excited. And so you need the positive energy, the excitement of being able. Like, you know, maybe type up your resignation letter and put it on your, you know, put it next to your computer and get so excited about the. You get to turn that in that the other wants that are calling for your money. The, you know, definitely living in New York, the $25 cocktail and whatever. And I, you know, I still. I still go for it. But, like, it's easier to say that little no because you're saying the big yes.

[Jean Chatzky]

That's such an important point. Because, look, money is, no matter where you sit in life, at least for the vast majority of us, it's a limited resource. Right. We're all making choices about how to fund this goal versus that goal. You are clearly borrowing a lot from the world of behavioral finance here, right? As you, as you structure this fund, as you visualize your goals, are there any other tricks that you have used to make sure that you stay on track?

[Paulette Perhach]

So definitely just automating, I think, is great. And putting friction between you and that money. You know, not having it in the same bank, just having it out of sight, out of mind, I think is so important. And yeah, I love behavioral economics because we are. It just shows. We are absolutely not calculators whatsoever. We're just like these evolved creatures that did not evolve for the situation that we were in currently. And you have to play tricks on yourself. I think that is really, really important. And so when you automate those savings every week and they just get pulled out, that becomes your new floor. You really do stop missing it. And, you know, another tactic from that is that you get used to everything. So, yes, the lifestyle creep can come in, but also taking your lifestyle down, you get used to that as well. So just remembering that. And I love this book, the Paradox of Choice, where I learned that. And I was. It was really nice to hear. Yeah, if you buy a Ferrari, you're going to be super excited for about three months. And then you're just going to get used to having a Ferrari. And it's not because you're a bad person. It's just life. It's just who we are. So just knowing that you will get used to whatever you, you know, take out of your life. And then also I love making it a social effort and a community effort. Not being alone in your goals, talking to your friends and having. It's like you can have. In the same way that you can set one recurring payment and it keeps paying off, you can have one deep conversation with friends about, hey, here's really where I want to go this year. And here's what, here's my big yes. What do you want to do this year? What are you really saving for? So that when you guys, you know, take the people you go out with once a week, if you guys can all level set together and say, hey, we're going to try to keep it under $50 a night so that you can go on that ski trip you want to go to, and I can go on this writing retreat I want to go to, or I, you know, I can save this money and I can be safe. That is like such a beautiful way to create community together. I think friends who are helping you become the person you really want to be, that is such a beautiful level of connection and it really takes it from the level of like, oh, come on, one more drink, one more drink. Da, da, da. So that you don't have to be like, oh, no, no, no. It's really, I think, a higher level of existing together and being like, no, let's all be up here and helping each other rather than just like, oh, let's do this thing. Who cares? You know what that's going to take away from. And I love those budgeting apps that make you, like, steal from the labeled, you know, oh, for your. You want to take this. You want to drink your electricity bill right now, you know, so you really have to see what you're stealing from.

[Jean Chatzky]

We're going to take a very quick break. When we come back, we're going to talk about the power of storytelling and how do we explain a fuck off fun to generations that come after you. You know that feeling when you're wearing something that just works? Lately, for me, it starts before I even get dressed because skims has totally transformed my basics drawer. The cotton jersey full brief, that's my go to. They stay in place, they don't bunch, and after dozens of washes, they are still in perfect shape. And the fits everybody triangle Bralette. I don't think a Bralette could support n flatter, but Skims nailed it. Feels like a second skin, but one that makes you feel really confident. Skims just makes me feel pulled together even on the busiest mornings and that's something I'll always recommend to a friend. Shop my favorite bras and [e-mail] after you place your order, be sure to let them know that we sent you. Select podcast in the survey and be sure to select our show in the drop down menu that follows.

[Paulette Perhach]

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[Jean Chatzky]

We are back with Paulette perhaps award winning writer, essayist and coach for Creatives. What do you know now that you want to teach younger women? And what is it specifically that you think we have a duty to teach the next generation what abuse looks like.

[Paulette Perhach]

Before they have to find out the hard way? What love bombing looks like before they have to find out the hard way? And what it feels like to be protected and loved and honored. Because I think any woman who respects, loves and honors herself and has choices is not going to stay in any abusive situation and you have to know that you are worth more. And I wish that every child could grow up in a situation that made them feel worthy and lovable and worth more than so much of what the world wants to offer them. But I know, especially from my coaching students these essays I read, so many people have to discover self love. So really starting with that full self acceptance and self love and the way to live in which you admire yourself and you are just a full expression of your potential and your possibility in a way that connects you with others and allows you to totally spot what is unacceptable for you and for anyone.

[Jean Chatzky]

If you have younger women in your orbit who you believe are facing these issues right now, what are the magic words? Because it must be a process. Realize that what is happening in their life is not okay.

[Paulette Perhach]

Imagine that your friends could see everything that goes on at work. Imagine the people who love you the way that maybe you should love yourself and haven't learned to yet. Could see everything that goes on at work, could see everything that goes on in your relationship could see everything that goes on in your own life. And, you know, the way you treat yourself, the way you let other people treat you. And imagine that your friends could see what's going on, that your mom could see what's going on. And for me, I had to speak it out loud. I had to say out loud some things that were happening. And the second I knew I said it, I knew it was gonna be over. Just, I think, carrying around those secrets and knowing their secrets and imagining, what if this weren't secret? What if my life had glass walls? What would happen?

[Jean Chatzky]

I wanna talk, Paulette, specifically about retirement. You write that the highest luxury you've known is being taken care of by the woman you were last year and taking care of the woman that you'll be in the future. How does this fund evolve as you think about and get closer to retirement?

[Paulette Perhach]

It definitely gets more serious. And that idea that it's on you, and also that the elder work of taking care of other people, maybe for me, I think about taking care of my mom and being able to be the person who provides. And not only that I don't need to take anyone to take care of me, but also that I could be taking care of other people. That's really inspiring to me, and I've seen that. I asked a friend actually, what was a moment of glory? This is one of my favorite, kind of, like, deep conversation questions is, tell me one of your moments of glory. And he said, paying for my mom's divorce. And I was like, whoa, wow. Okay. Yes. The zeros line up when we're talking about retirement. And so the fun and games of being young are definitely. I don't want to say over, because I want to have deeper. It's a deeper level of, like, joy in the travel. Like, I definitely want to be traveling in retirement. And so for me, it's been getting more serious about entrepreneurship and my business and really acknowledging that in retirement, it is on you and no one is coming to save you. And it is not cute if it does not go well. So it's no joking.

[Jean Chatzky]

No, no. Definitely. Definitely not. And I do want to just reassure you that we've got a lot of women in this audience who are either really close to retirement or in it, and we still have fun. So the fun still exists for women who are doing everything right on paper or feel like they're doing everything right on paper. Saving, diligently, investing constantly. Why do so many of us still feel financially fragile and afraid? And what have you found? Is it this fund or is it other mechanisms that help take that fear down a notch? Ooh.

[Paulette Perhach]

All right, you're gonna have to catch me at three in the morning when I'm. You know, when I'm up. You know, I think part of it is our society, where we live in a country where so many people go bankrupt because of medical debt and medical issues rise as we get older. So I think that is a valid fear. I think we live in. In a time where it feels like wider institutions don't really care if people end up bankrupt from situations that arise naturally from life. When it comes to that fear, I think it helps to, number one, acknowledge it. I teach meditation and been doing that for five years, so that has been very helpful to acknowledge when I'm in a state of anxiety and when I'm in a state of fear and to not just sit in it, but to say, okay, I'm feeling really afraid right now. Let me write out what am I afraid of? I am afraid that I will get cancer. Okay. What would happen if that. If I did that? Okay, well, I would have to start documenting things. I would. It would cost me.

[Jean Chatzky]

This.

[Paulette Perhach]

This is my deductible. So really writing it out and just acknowledging the truth of the possibility and looking at the numbers, I think when we are feeling some kind of fear to write out the numbers, do the math, have what I call a hard conversation with Excel, and sometimes you realize that it's not as bad as you thought, or you can at least get a number and get inputs that say, okay, well, in order to be safe in this way, I need to make X, Y, Z. Okay, if that happened, then what would I do? Make a plan A, B, and C. And then you will really feel, I think, more confident and more calm. For me, one example is I didn't like how my. How my net worth was looking. I was like, this is just not enough. And then I realized, I have a business. I own a business, right? And so then I started adding in my estimated business value, and I was like, okay, I like that a lot better. That makes a lot more sense, because, you know, not all assets are on the spreadsheets, right? So I put that on there. So really thinking about, if I could not afford rent anymore, what would I do? I took a big business risk, and I called my sister and I said, I'm taking this big business risk. If it goes 1000% terribly, can I move in with you for six months and be your housekeeper and your personal chef for free rent? She goes, yes. And I was like, okay. And that was my, like, backup fund there, right?

[Jean Chatzky]

Exactly. It allows you to think a little bit more flexibly. You mentioned your friend who paid for his mom's divorce. Lovely gesture, but I think for so many older women who are looking at divorce and Ray, divorce is a thing, right? 36% of adults going through a divorce today are 50 or older. Not having resources is a frightening prospect. Not having enough to get the divorce, not having enough to live after the divorce. If you are starting this journey and you're slightly older, what advice do you give that's different about kickstarting at a later age?

[Paulette Perhach]

I think there's more ego as you get older that you shouldn't have to be cutting down to the level that you might need to cut down to. And that's probably the biggest barrier I know for me, when I, you know, friends have been on the corporate track all their life, and those opportunity costs of being an artist are really starting to show, and the temptation to keep up with your friends is really there. And so I think it's about those conversations, those hard conversations with your friends, finding the people who really love you and really trying to carve out a life that fits within a financial scope that leaves room for keeping yourself safe and building that fund and just really focusing on it. I mean, when I was paying off my student loan debts, when I had that corporate job, I knew I wanted to be a writer. And so I was like, this is my one chance. I listened to. To a personal finance podcast every morning on the way to work. Like, I kept it front and center mentally. And so I think maybe finding another friend, like, having someone to be in it with you and have a recurring weekly meeting to see how you're doing, and every day reminding yourself what you're doing it for, and having that feeling be stronger than the feeling of, like, oh, well, I'm. I'm 50 years old. I should be able to just go out, you know, with my friends for lunch. I should be able to go on that trip, whatever, really keeping it front and center. And I think getting past that feeling as you get older that your kind of luxury should be able to improve, or, like, you've earned it, because in a way, you know, you have, like, there's an argument for, like, well, I should be able to xyz and, like, that's really, really hard. But if you want that freedom, if you want that divorce more, that's gotta be. That's gotta be your focus.

[Jean Chatzky]

One of the concepts that I really gravitated toward in your Follow up piece, you laid out what you called a fuck off Fund University, which is this one year program of financial self defense built around reading and skill building and accountability. If somebody wants to do this, how would you direct them and get them going?

[Paulette Perhach]

I think that my nephew went to boot camp and I was like, man, when was the last time I did something that intense? And for me that was when I was in Peace Corps in my early 20s. And so I think it helps to kind of label a year and say, this year my focus is XYZ and saying, okay, so then once a month I'm gonna read at least one financial book and make yourself a curriculum and get some accountability and stick to it and say, this is the year I'm doing it. Because so often I actually had a situation recently where I was having trouble communicating with someone and then I was like, oh, do you speak Spanish? And he was like, yeah. And we just switched to Spanish and I was like, blah, blah, blah. And we were joking and stuff. And then I left and I was like, I suffered so much in order to just have that super easy conversation When I was learning Spanish in Peace Corps. It was brutal. I was humiliated. I made everyone laugh. It was terrible for that year. It was terrible. And now for the rest of my life I get to enjoy speaking Spanish. So saying for this year I am going to become a financial expert and I'm going to learn things in finances that are going to make it easier for the rest of my life.

[Jean Chatzky]

Paulette, perhaps thank you so much for doing this with us today. If we're looking for more of your amazing work, where should we go?

[Paulette Perhach]

So you can go to pauletteperhatch.com and my group for writers is powerhouse writers and so people who want to tell their stories and we work with a lot of women who have been through so much and I just love women's stories and the younger women out there need to hear them.

[Jean Chatzky]

Absolutely. Thank you so much for being here today.

[Paulette Perhach]

Thank you for having me.

[Jean Chatzky]

If you love today's episode, please take a moment to leave us a five star review on Apple podcast. Your feedback means the world to me. Looking to grow your investing skills and make smarter decisions with Your Money in 2026? Join HerMoney's investing fix, the twice monthly women's only investment club where expert stock pickers pitch ideas and you help build the portfolio. Since launching four years ago, our member driven picks have outperformed the S and P. Thanks to smart collaborative choices, we've got a strong track record and a community that's learning and winning together. Tap the link in the show notes and check out Investing Fix today. Her money is produced by Hayley Pascalides and our music is provided by Video Helper. Thanks so much for listening and we'll talk soon.

[Paulette Perhach]

How do the most successful women do it? We asked them on how she does it with Karen Feinerman. You'll get insights from leaders like today's Jenna Bush Hager. There's a lot I say no to, and I think it's a really important word for women to use. Rachel weber of Paris Hilton's 1111 media I'm going to be a much better leader. I'm going to bring more creativity if I have other things filling my life and more. That's how she does it with me. Karen Feinerman, Wherever you get your podcasts.