Ep 524: Don't Claim Too Early: The Social Security Mistake That Could Cost You 30%

Summary

HerMoney with Jean Chatzky: Episode 524

Title: Don't Claim Too Early: The Social Security Mistake That Could Cost You 30%
Release Date: April 22, 2026
Guest: Marsha Mantel, Social Security & Retirement Planning Expert, Author of "Social Security Lightly Toasted"

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Overview

This episode tackles the complex and critical decision about when to claim Social Security—one of the most consequential financial choices, especially for women. Jean Chatzky is joined by Marsha Mantel, retirement consultant and Social Security expert, to clarify the truth behind scary Social Security headlines, guide listeners through the practical steps they can control, and reveal how claiming too early can lock in a lifelong reduction of 30% in benefits. The conversation weaves policy perspectives, practical advice, and personal financial planning, sharpening focus on how women’s work histories amplify the stakes.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Decoding the Fear: Social Security’s Future

• Social Security Solvency Headlines:
  Marsha and Jean dissect recent alarming headlines about imminent Social Security cuts, referencing a MarketWatch opinion piece forecasting benefit reductions of 22% by 2033.

  • Mantel’s Reaction:
    • "[The headlines] are definitely an attention grabber … it is fear mongering and yet it does get your attention." (Marsha Mantel, 03:53)
    • The unintended consequence: Fear pushes many people to claim benefits early, often a poor financial choice.

• How the Trust Fund Works (05:20)
  Social Security has a "checking account" (ongoing payroll taxes) and a "rainy day fund" (trust reserve). The issue is not that the “checking” (income from new workers) is empty, but that the “savings” account (the trust reserve) is being depleted.

  • If Congress doesn't act, only 78–80% of promised benefits can be paid after the trust reserve is exhausted.
  • Current estimates suggest depletion could occur by 2032–2033.

• Confidence in a Congressional Solution (08:09)
  Mantel is optimistic that Congress will intervene before the fund is depleted, as happened following the early-1980s Social Security crisis.

  • “We've gotta get all the way to the cliff. And before we get shoved over the cliff, all of a sudden, miraculously, there will be what—the 2032 amendments.” (08:09)

• Potential Reform Levers (09:32)

  • Raising revenue: modest payroll tax increases, especially targeted to higher-income earners.
  • Novel ideas: Capping large benefits ($100,000/year household maximum), changing the benefit formula for high earners.
  • Raising the retirement age is deemed unlikely because of the physical demands on service-sector workers.

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2. Should Social Security Be Invested in the Market?

• BlackRock’s Larry Fink Suggests Investing in Equities (16:06)
  Fink proposes investing part of the trust fund in the stock market, similar to pension plans, to boost returns.
  • Mantel supports further exploration—professional pension-level management, not privatization to individuals.
    • “It's really time to look at that more seriously. ... We can't count on American individuals to take that burden on. But I think what Larry's talking about is professional pension management ... that's worthy of some more exploration.” (16:25)

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3. Personal Strategies: Maximizing Your Social Security

A) The Gender Gap & Women’s Unique Challenges

• Why Women Get Less (21:11)

  • "Popcorn careers": Women typically have spottier and lower-paid work histories due to caregiving roles, leading to a $4,000 average annual benefits gap (men $25,000 vs women $21,000 in 2023).
    • “We pop in and out of careers based on what our family needs. ... Unfortunately, it comes with a price tag, and we don't see it until we get to retirement.” (21:11)

• Caregiving Tradeoffs (23:28)

  • It’s vital to factor in Social Security credits and retirement savings when considering leaving the workforce, since stepping out can have long-term repercussions.

B) Reading & Using Your Social Security Statement

• Accessing Your Records (24:23)
  • Set up "my Social Security" at SSA.gov to see estimates, full earnings history, and calculate effects of working more years.
  • Replacing “zeros” in your record (years with no earnings) with new earning years boosts your benefit; the formula uses your top 35 earning years. (25:51)

C) The Cost of Claiming Too Early

• The 30% Mistake

  • Claiming at 62 locks in a permanent 30% reduction in monthly benefits versus waiting to full retirement age (~67).

    • "If you claim at 62, you have made the decision to lock in a 30% permanent reduction to your monthly benefits ... your $3,000 drops to $2,100 a month. That's a lot less than $3,000." (Marsha Mantel, 35:42 & 01:04)

  • If You Wait Until 70:

    • Benefits grow to $3,700/mo (in the example, $3,000 at FRA), making a significant difference over a long retirement.
    • Compound effect: Cost-of-living increases are more impactful with a higher starting benefit.

  • Quote:

    • “Why would you lock in a 30% cut to your benefits when you can control it?” (01:04, 35:42)

D) Claiming in Special Circumstances

• Married Couples (27:43)

  • Each partner should compare records and strategize—delaying at least one can boost survivor benefits.
  • Spousal benefits are available if you have a lower or no work record (half of the higher earner’s benefit at full retirement age). Cannot claim a spousal benefit until the higher-earner spouse claims.

• Divorced Individuals (31:17)

  • Must have been married for 10+ years and be over 62.
  • Can claim as an ex-spouse if your benefit is lower, even if your ex remarries. Ex does not have to be informed.
    • “This is not a permission seeking thing. ... Even if it’s small ... take the hundred bucks more.” (31:17, 33:08)
  • You cannot be remarried to claim an ex-spousal benefit.

• Widowed Individuals / Survivor Benefits (33:45)

  • A widow(er) can step into the higher benefit of the deceased spouse, even if the survivor’s own benefit was lower.
  • Payments shift immediately upon death notification.
    • “It is a shock to the cash flow of the household. So it's something we have to prepare for.” (34:44)

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• On Congress' Likely Action:
  “All of a sudden, miraculously, there will be ... amendments ... it will mostly affect the younger folks so they'll have time to adjust.” (08:09)

• On Women’s "Popcorn Careers":
  “We very often have to manage and juggle a lot of different roles and responsibilities. But unfortunately, it comes with a price tag.” (21:11)

• On Social Security Statements:
  “Once you have your 10 years worth of work history, you're going to see your estimated Social Security benefits … it also shows you all of your earnings history.” (24:23)

• On the claiming age penalty:
  “If you claim at 62, you have made the decision to lock in a 30% permanent reduction to your monthly benefits.” (01:04, 35:42)

  • “No one says, ‘Hey, this is great, I’m getting less Social Security when I’m 85’… If you know, you know.” (38:20)

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Timestamps for Major Segments

• Social Security "crisis" headlines & fear mongering – 03:53
• How SS trust fund works & consequences – 05:20
• Congressional fix: will it happen? – 08:09
• Possible reforms & impact by income/group – 09:32
• Should SS invest in the market? – 16:25
• The gender gap in Social Security – 21:11
• Accessing your SS statement & record – 24:23
• Explaining "replacing zeros" – 25:51
• Married, spousal, divorced, survivor benefits explained – 27:43–34:44
• Real-life impact of claiming too early (30% cut example) – 01:04, 35:42
• Final advice & why waiting pays off – 38:20

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Tone Reflected

Jean’s warmth and dry wit, paired with Marsha’s experience and frank, practical style, make the episode informative, engaging, and actionable—compassionate but urgent, especially for women navigating the claims puzzle.

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Takeaway Actions

• Check your own Social Security statement via SSA.gov.
• Aim for 35 years of earnings to maximize your benefit.
• Delay claiming as long as feasible, ideally to age 70 (especially if you’re in good health).
• Women: Account for career interruptions, and plan to save more if you’ve stepped out of the workforce.
• Divorced? Know your 10-year rule and what you’re eligible for.
• Talk with spouses about survivor benefits now—plan for the transition.

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Recommended Next Steps:

• Review your statement, run your own benefit scenarios, and build your claiming plan—don’t panic, take control!
• For ongoing guidance, check out Marsha Mantel’s book, "Social Security Lightly Toasted," and subscribe to HerMoney newsletter for practical financial advice.

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This summary excludes ads, promotional breaks, and non-content chatter, focusing on actionable insights and essential discussions.

Transcript

[A]

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[C]

if you claim at 62, you have made the decision to lock in a 30% permanent reduction to your monthly benefits. 30%? I mean, we're lucky if we get like a 2 or 3% raise every year while we're working, right? Why would you lock in a 30% cut to your benefits when you can control it? So your $3,000 drops to $2,100 a month. That's a lot less than $3,000.

[D]

Hey everyone. Welcome to Her Money. I'm Jean Chatky, and I'm just gonna say it the headlines about Social Security are pretty terrifying these days. Just last week, a Market Watch opinion piece made the argument that benefit cuts are coming and that they will hit current retirees hard. The piece points out that Social Security's trust fund could run short of money in just a few years, resulting in cuts of around 22% by 2033, possibly sooner. And that's not a small number. That's real money out of real people's pockets. And we've heard from several of you in our listening audience that you are worried. I get it. But here is what I want you to hold on to before you spiral. Scary headlines and your actual retirement strategy are two very different things. Yes, Congress needs to act. Yes, the clock is ticking. But in the meantime, the single most powerful thing that you can do is make the smartest claiming decision possible for you. And fortunately, that is something that's entirely within your control. Which is why I am glad to have Marsha Mantel back on her money, too. Today. Marsha is the founder of Mantel Retirement Consulting. She is one of the country's foremost experts on Social Security and retirement income planning. And her new book is called Social Security Lightly Toasted not how to make your best claiming decision. I love the title cause it is exactly the right framing for this moment. We're not burnt to a crisp. There's no cause for all out panic. But yeah, we should probably be paying attention. Marcia, welcome back to her money.

[C]

Jean thank you very much. I'm glad to be here.

[D]

So let's start with the news that Market Watch headline Social Security benefits are coming and they will hit current retirees hard. Granted this was an opinion piece, but still it's enough to make anyone's stomach drop when you read something like that. What is your gut reaction? Legitimate or fear mongering?

[C]

Oh Jean, it's just so frustrating. It's definitely an attention grabber, right? I call it the hype and hoopla of the headlines, but it is fear mongering and yet it does get your attention. So you can look at it both ways. There's a little bit of benefit to it if it gets more of us, more people in their late 50s and 60s and then the retirees engaged in the process which is as you said, Congress needs to take an action, but it is very fearful. And what I don't like about these more fear inducing headlines is they first of all freak out our oldest Americans. They are legitimately concerned, but probably prematurely. But even worse, it hurts the people who haven't yet claimed. Those who are coming into 62, 63, 64, thinking oh my God, I better grab mine now so I can get something or get grandfathered in. Well, there's no grandfathering with this particular situation. So claiming early is often the worst financial decision you can make. That's what these headlines do.

[D]

Put a pin in that claiming early conversation because we're going to come back to it and talk about how to claim in the way that works best for you. Where are you on the Social Security is or is not going to run short in 2033 conversation?

[C]

It will run short and I'm even estimating 2032. So we'll get the new trustees report coming out sometime April, May, June, probably June. And I expect to see that they've moved up the depletion of the reserve account. So we have to think about Social Security in two buckets. The money that pays our retirees, there's the checking account side and there's the rainy day fund or the savings account side. The checking account is fine. Money is Flowing in from all of our paychecks. You know, we pay our payroll taxes every pay period. That money is flowing in in the trillions of dollars every year. But to pay our retirees and our soon to be retirees like me, we need the reserve fund or the savings account to make sure 100% of our benefits are paid. Well, that little reserve account started getting tapped back in 2021, and it is needed to meet the full obligation to pay the full amount to our retirees. That's going to run dry. That's what we're talking about. Payroll taxes still come in. They will fund about 78 to 80% of the obligation. But if Congress doesn't do something, and it's hard because it really is, pretty soon, we're talking about six years from now, Congress needs to make the changes so that no one loses a dollar out of their earned benefits and they just haven't moved on it. I know they're busy, but we've gotta do something to make sure people understand that the program is a law. The law can only be changed by Congress. Congress needs to act, and then the benefits will be insured again. So it is a tough thing. But understanding there's a checking account side and a savings account side hopefully helps people understand that. It's not as dire as we think, but still something needs to be done.

[D]

I mean, essentially what you're saying is that this is a demographics problem. We have fewer people paying in than are receiving benefits at this point, which is why the money that's coming in is not completely funding the obligations. Or when you say Congress has to act, I mean, we know that Congress has known about this problem for decades and has not done anything. And yet I've had conversations with you and other people who closely follow Social Security, and every single one believes that Congress will do something before it's too late. Do you share that opinion and what do you think Congress will do?

[C]

I do share that opinion, and I largely base it on the fact that America has been here before. And it was in the 1980s, the early 1980s, when the Reserve account, that savings account, ran dry in 1982. And then miraculously, we had these massive 1983amendments to Social Security under the Reagan administration. So I believe that is the same way Congress is going to operate this go round. We've gotta get all the way to the cliff. And before we get shoved over the cliff, all of a sudden, miraculously, there will be what? The 2032amendments. And there are so many ideas out there already. Jean. It's not like Congress is gonna wait till the last minute to act and they have nothing in the hopper to choose from. Rather, we've got 25 great ideas now. It would have been better to implement them 20 years ago so we could have done little tiny bits, but that ship has sailed. So now we're at the point where action is going to be needed. It's going to be relatively dramatic when it happens, but it will mostly affect the younger folks so they'll have time to adjust and adapt their retirement savings strategies so that they're not left short when it comes time for them to retire.

[D]

When we look at the levers that Congress has to maneuver, we're either talking about raising taxes or reducing benefits. And when we talk about reducing benefits, that could be in the form of raising the age that you have to hit in order to receive Social Security. Where do you think it's going to come in?

[C]

Yeah, I actually think it's not going to be raising the age, if you can believe it. And that's mostly because when we look at American workers, we have almost a 50, 50 split. We have 50% of us who sit on our behinds all day, and we have 50% who sling a hammer or are in a service sector. It's the service sector and the folks who physically work, the public, you know, the firefighters and the police officers and the checkout ladies at the grocery store, these are super demanding on your body jobs. They, they can't wait until 70 to claim or to have an increased retirement age, which means if you still claim early, you get a much bigger reduction in benefits. So I don't think we're gonna raise the age. It's one of the levers that's a possibility, but there are so many other better ones so that we're not hurting half of our older population. And it's things like, yes, raising revenue is never popular, but if we start with, sorry, younger folks, I've got millennial kids, they won't be excited to hear this, but, you know, increase the payroll tax a little bit and you start when younger, you know, with younger workers, and it adds up over time. But we can also do things to raise revenue, like not pay out as much to the highest income people. We can change the pia, the primary insurance amount formula, and have two formulas. I mean, right now in the law, we have one formula for everybody. Well, let's be more creative than that. Let's have one formula for the mainline workers, the average wage workers, and something else for the high income workers. I'M going to give a big shout out here. There's a group called the Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget and they are approaching more novel. They're calling it novel ideas for how to Increase Revenue Appropriately. You know, we can't ask the low income folks to do more. They're already doing as much as possible. We need to tap the higher income folks a little bit more so they're looking at more creative and novel ways to do this. Should we cap everyone at $100,000 for couples individually, $50,000 a person or $100,000 for a married filing jointly couple? Is that the cap? Is there any reason people need more than $100,000 a year from a social insurance program? I think that's super novel. Like, oh, maybe we just cap it all and the money will flow to where it needs to go and the benefits will be delivered. So there's more devil in the details, I'm sure there, but it's an interesting idea.

[D]

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[C]

I think it's a novel idea and one worthy of some pretty sophisticated analysis. I'm not that good at math, Jean. So we got to bring somebody else into.

[D]

I don't believe that at all.

[C]

But I think it's really time to look at that more seriously. And I see it as two different strategies. There's privatization, which to me means I get to invest my Social Security contributions like I do my 401k. No to that. We can't count on American individuals to take that burden on. But I think what Larry's talking about is professional pension management by the actuaries and the experts and the investment gurus out there. And that's worthy of some more exploration. What I'd love to see just sort of noodling here is for the federal government to fund an ante like set up a little kitty, rather than it being our payroll taxes. Let that keep going, then add on or snap on an ancillary account that becomes this investment account and see how it goes. I think it's worthy to, you know, we're not always going to have these rip roaring great stock market runs, right. So where it's going to fall into a bit of a scandal, if you will, is when the market drops. And it will at some point. It's normal cyclical economics. But for the years when the market is up, maybe we should be taking more advantage of that for a smaller portion while still guaranteeing the output to our seniors. So, yeah, I think it's novel. I think it's a great idea to explore.

[D]

We are gonna take a quick break. When we come back, we're gonna step away from the scary headlines and get into what you can actually do in terms of your own personal Social Security claiming decision. We'll talk about how to read your Social Security statement, how to close the gender gap in your benefits, and how to make a claiming decision you'll be confident about for the rest of your life. Don't go anywhere. As someone who loves to cook, I've always been particular about where my protein comes from. I seek out the good stuff, the butcher counter, the farmer's market, because I believe quality ingredients make all the difference. But honestly, with all my travel lately, that takes time that I don't always have. That's where Omaha Steaks has been a genuine revelation for me. My husband asked me to make him the steak Diane that his mother used to make him. I did. It was delish and you could taste that. It's a real quality standard that shows up on the plate. What I love most is that I always have something exceptional to work with, whether it's a quick weeknight dinner or a weekend dinner party. Get flavorful high quality proteins delivered by visiting OmahaSteaks.com/$35 off when you use promo code HERMONEY at checkout, that's OmahaSteaks.com code HERMONEY terms apply. See site for details. Summer's almost here and I don't know about you, but I want to be thinking about where I'm going on vacation, not lying awake wondering if I can actually afford it. That's the difference between having a financial plan and just hoping for the best. And Monarch is what makes that possible. Monarch is the personal finance app that tracks everything, accounts, investments, saving goals and spending. Get your first year of Monarch for half off just $50 with promo code Hermoney. What I love is that Monarch doesn't just show you what you've already spent, it helps you plan ahead. My producer Hailey uses it every single day and once you have that kind of clarity on your finances, you really can't go back. Use code [e-mail] to get your first year half off at just $50. That's 50% off your first year. @monarch.com with code HERMONEY, we are back with Social Security expert Marsha Mantel. All right, Marsha, let's take a breath and let's talk about what we can actually control. And I want to start with women because we're hermoney, but also because your book already makes it clear that women are at a disadvantage when it comes to Social Security. In 2023, the average benefit for men was about $25,000 a year. For women, it was closer to 21,000 dol. Why is the gap so significant? And if you're still years from retirement, what can you do right now to improve your number?

[C]

Yeah, this gap is real. And it's really tough for women to look at those statements and go, oh my gosh, that's it. The situation is each one of us with a work history. Our Social Security benefit is calculated based on the earnings we've received over the years. And very often, but not always, and getting better. Women tend to earn less than their male counterparts. Now, it's not always in the exact same job, but it's very often because we women have, I call them popcorn careers. Right? We pop in and out of careers based on what our family needs. So we pop out for a while when the kids are little or the kids are teenagers or we need to help mom and dad later in life. Well, those end up zeros on your work record or maybe you have to go to part time. So women typically have these compressed or lower earnings relative to men. And it's just the reality of what our lives are like. We don't just get to have a career. We very often have to manage and juggle a lot of different roles and responsibilities. But unfortunately, it comes with a price tag and we don't see it until we get to retirement and Social Security age.

[D]

I think of this often when it comes to caring for older parents toward the end of our life, which sort of, well, tends to sync up with our highest earning years. And it seems to me that one of the things to think about is when it makes sense not to step out, but instead to pay somebody else to take on those caregiving responsibilities, even if the numbers are fairly close because you can continue to put Money in your 401k and accumulate or accrue Social Security credits. I don't know that the same calculus applies when you have young children. If taking time out is something that you want to do versus have to do. Which is not to say that people don't want to take time to care for their aging parents. I know that many people see that as a gift, the ability to spend time with your parents late in life. But, gosh, all of these things need to be economic decisions, too.

[C]

They really do. And I think it's building the awareness into our decision making. So it's great. I would have loved to have stayed home with my kids. It would have been really kind of a dream come true. But it didn't work out for me economically. Now, I didn't know it was going to be a benefit to my Social Security earnings later, but it was a benefit that I didn't know I had. But I still missed out on those years. So each woman needs to make these decisions that are appropriate for her. And it's okay if you take the time. Just realize that you maybe have to save a little bit more later to make up for a shortfall you might have in Social Security benefits. So it's just being smart about the decisions you're making. And it's both a time and a money conversation that you have.

[D]

One of the very first things we all need to do is look at our Social Security statement. So how do we do that and what are we looking for?

[C]

Yeah, this is a really good tip, Jean, because we have this tool already right in our hands, right on our computers at Social Security's website, SSA.gov and all you do is you set up your my Social Security account. And once you have your 10 years worth of work history, you're going to see your estimated Social Security benefits. And it shows up right in a graph. It tells you how much you might receive when you reach your full retirement age, which is about age 67 for most people today. And you see how much less you get if you claim early, how much more you'll get if you can wait a little while to claim. So it's a very powerful tool. It also shows you all of your earnings history. So if you had a few years with zeros, and this is anyone who went to grad school or medical school getting PhDs, you had a fellowship, you didn't have income, so you might see zero there, or the years you stayed out with your kids or later years with your parents, it's all already there for you. You don't have to invent this. So I find it to be an incredibly helpful tool to see not only how much you might get, but if you're close to retirement, would you maybe get a little bit More if you worked a few more years, or do you feel like you have enough when

[D]

you see zeros in your record? How much longer do you have to work in order to get rid of those zeros?

[C]

Ideally, for the calculation, you want to have 35 years of actual income and earnings that goes into your calculations. That's what Social Security uses to calculate each of our benefits. So 35 years. If you have one or two zeros, replacing those won't move the needle very much. So maybe you decide it's good enough. I have 33 years of actual dollars and two years of zeros. But if you have 10 years of zeros, you can make those up. Any year that you now have real earnings in, whether it's part time or full time, will eliminate a zero from the calculation, and that will start to boost your Social Security benefit, which is more is more. More is better.

[D]

When we talk about claiming, as far as single individuals go, it's pretty straightforward. If you can delay anytime beyond age 62, as you close in on age 70, it's better. You're going to get more money. Right. But as soon as we add in a spouse or an ex spouse or a deceased spouse, or even an age discrepancy between a married couple, things start to get really complicated. So let's just talk through some of those scenarios, and let's start with married couples. You write that if you have your own work record, you can file on whatever best fits your retirement plan, but that you can only claim spousal benefits once your spouse has filed. How are spousal benefits different than your own benefits? And what are the rules there?

[C]

Yeah, you're right. You add one more person to this mix, and it does get increasingly complex. So it's a little bit easier for me to describe the traditional married couple. So I'm married to Dan, as you know, and Dan and I are about the same age. We have about the same work record. It just worked out that way. So we have to decide between the two of us looking at both of our Social Security statements, like should one of us claim before full retirement age at full retirement age, or wait till 70, or should both of us what happens for our cash flow in retirement and. And then what happens when the first of us dies. Now, Jean, I think, you know, in my examples, I always have Dan die first. It's not very nice, but that sometimes happens. The men die before the women. So if Dan dies first, we need to make sure that I'm protected, and that means that I get the bigger benefit. Because survivors step into the shoes of the higher earner. So all of these decisions get made when spouses claim, when they both have a work record, who goes into the pool first? Who waits? What happens when you're both alive and then when the first dies? Now, if I didn't have a work record or I had a much smaller work record than Dan, now spousal benefits come into play. And just because you're a spouse doesn't mean you're going to get a spousal benefit. It just means there'll be a calculation. And in the case of at home moms or women who didn't work as much or have a much smaller benefit, they are entitled possibly to a spousal benefit, meaning they will get a monthly benefit that equals one half of the higher earning spouse's PIA or their benefit at full retirement age. So if dan has a $3,000 benefit, I will get $1,500 in total. It's a combination of my own lower benefit, say $1,000 that I get on my own work record, plus another $500 spousal top up. And that way I'm entitled as the lower earner to at least get as much of a benefit as if I had been an at home mom, which is when Social Security law was invented back in the 1930s. There were lots of at home moms then. So that's what happens with spousal benefits. But in order for me to get the top up, Dan has to be claiming. You're attached. You really go in as a couple.

[D]

Can I claim my benefit earlier and then take the spousal?

[C]

Yes, you can, because each woman independently owns her own benefit, her work benefit. But we're attached to our spouses for that spousal benefit. But you can go and I could claim at 62, take a reduced benefit on my own share of my benefit, and then maybe dan waits until 70 and then at that time, my spousal top up will become available. So timing is an issue. Reductions become an issue. So I look at it overall as cash flow. How much cash do you need coming into your household when you're retiring?

[D]

I know a lot of our listeners, as I am, although I'm remarried, are divorced. What are the rules for people who have been divorced? When do you claim on your own record? When can you claim on an ex spouses?

[C]

Yeah, the spousal rules are complicated. The divorced spousal rules are even more complicated. So in order to be eligible to claim on an ex spouse, the first hurdle you needed to get over was you had to have been married 10 consecutive years or longer. So if you got divorced at seven or eight or nine years, you're off the table. Then you're just, you have your work record. But if you had a long term marriage, and I think Gene, you write about this, the gray divorces that are really happening a lot these days, if you're married 20, 25, 30 years, you get to claim as if you were still married. So long as you met that 10 year rule. You're both over the age of 62, which in a grade divorce you very often are. And your benefit is lower than your exes so that you would be eligible for a top up. It's just an ex spousal top up, but you still get the same maximum benefit, which is half of his. And if you had lower, if your own benefit again is at thousand dollars, but his is 3,000, you're going to get a $500 top up on your ex spouse's record. And they won't know. And I think that's really important to get out. A lot of times divorces don't end so friendly. You know, they can be pretty cantankerous between the individuals. This is not a permission seeking thing. You just go to Social Security and give your information. They'll ask for some proof, documents, you know, your marriage certificate or your divorce decree. But they'll let you know if you're entitled to any top up. And even if it's small, I have some, you know, people I've talked to. It's like, well, it might only be a hundred dollars. Great, take the a hundred bucks more.

[D]

I mean that's, it's a hundred a month. That's some real money over time.

[C]

It really is.

[D]

But you can't be remarried, correct?

[C]

You cannot be remarried because then you're a spouse, right.

[D]

And then, so now you, you claim

[C]

on your new husband or your new wife.

[D]

What about if a spouse has passed away or an ex spouse has passed away? I mean the longevity gap between men and women in this country is nearly six years. Women live six years longer. A lot of us are going to find ourselves widowed at one point or another. What do we need to know about that?

[C]

Yeah, and it's really important to talk about with your current spouse. It's not a pleasant conversation. Look, it's, you know, nobody wants to think about being a widow or losing your husband or your wife. But it's really important to do from a financial health perspective in your household. So if Dan dies first, which is my Plan Dan, if he's getting the higher benefit, I now lose my own benefit, my lower benefit. But step into the amount Dan was receiving on the day he died or the amount he would have been receiving if he hadn't yet claimed. So the idea with spousal survivor benefits between the spouses is in the household, the one higher benefit remains. You don't keep yours, but you get the higher benefit. Now, if I'm the higher earner, the higher Social Security benefit, or if I waited till 70, my benefit continues and Dan's goes away.

[D]

Got it.

[C]

And it happens really fast, Jean. It is. I mean, because the death decree, you know, the death certificate is done the day you die. And Social Security is notified by usually the funeral home director, so they know immediately. And your payment stops the next month. You know, one payment. So this is a shock to the cash flow of the household. So it's something we have to prepare for.

[D]

When my mom died, the funeral home let them know and that check just ceased. It was. That's done.

[C]

Yeah, it's really fast.

[D]

Let's close with something that I know you feel very strongly about. You make the case that if you're in good health at 65, waiting until 70 to claim is the smartest move if you can swing it financially. And you also talk about how claiming at 62 or 63 or 64 can have some pretty detrimental long term consequences. Can you talk me through what those look like in, in real dollars?

[C]

Yeah. And I am very passionate about this, especially for us women, because again, this is nothing we grew up learning about. Right. So it's like now at 60, I've got to learn this whole, you know, huge law. Yes, you do, because it's going to benefit you. So here's my example in real numbers, Jean. But if you have your primary insurance amount of $3,000 a month, so you worked, you've earned a pretty good salary during the years, you're going to be entitled to $3,000 a month. When you're 67, you go, yeah, but I'm 62 and I'm really tired and I'd really like to claim this benefit or back to the headlines. I'm scared that Social Security is going to go away. It's not. If you claim at 62, you have made the decision to lock in a 30% permanent reduction to your monthly benefits. 30%. I mean, we're lucky if we get like a 2 or 3% raise every year while we're working. Right. Why would you lock in a 30% cut to your benefits when you can control it. So your $3,000 drops to $2,100 a month. That's a lot less than $3,000. Now if you can wait until 70, you go from $3,000 to $3,700. So an extra $700 a month, that is a really important decision not only for when you start Social Security, but we have to remember that's not how much you're going to actually receive. The first thing that comes out of your Social Security check, unbeknownst to most people, is your Medicare Part B premium. So when you have both Medicare and Social Security ready to roll and you're receiving both benefits, you don't get a full Social Security check. So Part B premiums out. Then you pay tax for most people on at least a portion of your Social Security benefits. That reduces your Social Security benefits as well. So you now don't get as much as you thought. So you want to start with a higher base. And the other big consideration is each year in retirement, as we live with well into our 80s and 90s, your benefit will increase every year for that annual COLA or the cost of living increase when you have a smaller starting point. Your COLAs are less effective over the years and you get less. So I don't want to be 85 and then go, oh, I really should have waited longer before I claimed. I should have waited till 68 or 69 or 70. Too late at that point. But no one says, hey, this is great, I'm getting less Social Security when I'm 85. And I want them to know this is one of those things. If you know, you know.

[D]

Exactly. Exactly. And now we all do. Marcia Mantel the book is called Social Security Lightly Toasted, not how to make youe Best Claiming Decision. Thank you so much for all the great info.

[C]

Thanks for having me, Jean.

[D]

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