Mailbag with Tori Dunlap: “$100K in Debt, $180K Income, Now What?”

Summary

HerMoney with Jean Chatzky: Mailbag Episode Featuring Tori Dunlop Episode: “$100K in Debt, $180K Income, Now What?”
Release Date: August 8, 2025

In this insightful mailbag episode of HerMoney with Jean Chatzky, host Jean Chatzky teams up once again with financial feminist Tori Dunlop to address pressing financial dilemmas faced by women. The episode delves deep into strategies for managing substantial debt, evaluating credit card fees, and understanding retirement benchmarks—all tailored to empower women to take control of their financial futures.

Navigating Significant Credit Card Debt

The episode kicks off with an anonymous listener's distressing account of battling $100,000 in credit card debt while earning a combined income of $180,000. Despite diligently paying down approximately $30,000 using the avalanche method, high interest rates have only reduced the balance by $16,000. The listener has faced multiple loan denials due to a high debt-to-income ratio and is wary of options like bankruptcy.

Tori Dunlop empathizes with the listener’s struggle:

“I know it feels like you're drowning. [...] Shame is not helpful” (01:59).

She advises exploring personal loans with lower interest rates to consolidate debt, highlighting the importance of reducing daily accruing interest. Dunlop also recommends negotiating with credit card companies for lower rates or 0% offers during financial hardship, emphasizing proactive communication as a vital step.

Jean Chatzky adds layers to the solution by suggesting credit counseling as a potential avenue:

“The credit counseling industry can immediately lower your interest rates probably to around 6%” (03:47).

Chatzky also highlights the benefits of joining a credit union, where more personalized financial assistance might be available compared to traditional banks.

Tori Dunlop introduces the concept of an emergency fund:

“...even though it seems counterintuitive to say, okay, I'm going to at least get three months of living expenses in a high yield savings account set aside for emergencies” (04:56).

This strategy aims to prevent further debt accumulation by providing a financial buffer for unexpected expenses.

Jean Chatzky underscores the significance of evaluating major expenses:

“$180,000 a year [...] can give you a little bit of wiggle room” (05:51).
She encourages listeners to reassess significant expenditures such as housing costs and car expenses, suggesting that sometimes cutting back on major costs can be more effective than trimming smaller ones.

Tori Dunlop echoes this sentiment, stressing the importance of seeking additional income:

“How do we earn more money, too? [...] It’s a lot easier to earn more money than it is to cut more” (06:37).

Evaluating Premium Credit Card Fees

The next segment addresses a common concern: rising fees on premium credit cards. Tina, another listener, questions whether she can downgrade her premium card while maintaining her credit line and seeks guidance on assessing the true value of such fees.

Tori Dunlop encourages a thorough audit of credit card benefits versus costs:

“...this card is costing me more than it's benefiting me, this, that's where we want to potentially downgrade” (07:41).
She emphasizes the importance of personalizing credit card choices based on current lifestyle and financial needs.

Jean Chatzky shares a personal anecdote about her own credit card usage, demonstrating how strategic rewards can offset high fees:

“...it was easy enough for me to do. So I got the card, I got the 40,000 bonus” (08:30).

Chatzky illustrates that when the benefits, such as reward points and exclusive access, outweigh the costs, maintaining a premium card can be financially justified.

Understanding Retirement Benchmarks

The final major topic revolves around retirement savings benchmarks. Ali, a listener aged 52 with a net worth of $4 million (including $2 million in investments), seeks clarity on whether she and her partner are ahead or behind in meeting retirement benchmarks, and how to average their ages for assessment.

Tori Dunlop offers a nuanced perspective on the utility of benchmarks:

“...I don't rely on benchmarks as much, I think, because a lot of women in our audience are kind of starting their financial journeys...” (14:00).
She cautions against using benchmarks as a source of discouragement, advocating instead for personalized financial markers that foster a positive relationship with money.

Dunlop introduces the concept of "sticky numbers"—personal, manageable savings targets that balance financial discipline with maintaining a quality of life:

“...if you're trying to figure out, like, how much do I save without also depriving myself, it should feel a little sticky” (15:39).

This approach encourages listeners to set savings goals that are challenging yet attainable, promoting sustainable financial growth without unnecessary sacrifice.

Key Takeaways and Resources

Throughout the episode, Chatzky and Dunlop provide actionable advice tailored to individual circumstances:

• Debt Management: Explore personal loans with lower interest rates, engage with credit card companies for better terms, consider credit counseling, and build an emergency fund.
• Credit Card Evaluation: Regularly assess the value of premium credit cards against their costs, and make adjustments based on current financial needs and benefits.
• Retirement Planning: Focus on personalized financial goals rather than rigid benchmarks, and adopt strategies like "sticky numbers" to ensure consistent savings without undue stress.

Tori Dunlop encourages listeners to visit HerFirst100k.com for personalized money plans and to follow her on social media for more financial insights.

Notable Quotes

• Tori Dunlop: “Shame is not helpful...working to find a solution, you've done. First of all, all of the things I would have tried.” (01:59)
• Jean Chatzky: “$180,000 a year, I mean, depending on where you live, is a substantial amount of money.” (05:51)
• Tori Dunlop: “Is it time to ask for a raise? Is it time to switch jobs?” (06:37)
• Tori Dunlop: “If they do just make you feel down on yourself, find something else, right.” (14:00)
• Tori Dunlop: “...if you're trying to figure out, like, how much do I save without also depriving myself, it should feel a little sticky.” (15:39)

Conclusion

This episode of HerMoney serves as a comprehensive guide for women navigating complex financial landscapes. By addressing significant debt, evaluating financial tools, and redefining success in retirement planning, Jean Chatzky and Tori Dunlop provide listeners with the knowledge and confidence to make informed financial decisions. Whether dealing with high-interest debt or assessing the true value of premium credit cards, the actionable strategies discussed offer a path toward financial stability and empowerment.

For more resources and personalized financial plans, visit HerMoney.com and subscribe to the HerMoney newsletter at HerMoney.com/subscribe.

Transcript

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[Jean Chatsky]

Foreign It's Jean Chatsky. Welcome to her Money. Today we have a very special mailbag episode. We're so excited to be joined once again by the fabulous Tori Dunlop. If you caught our Wednesday episode, you know it was powerful. We talked about how Tori built her wealth, how she spends joyfully and unapologetically, and what financial feminism really looks like in 2025. So today, Tori is back with us to dig into your money dilemmas. How much is it worth for a premium trav card? What to do if you've paid thousands towards your debt, but it still feels like nothing and more. Tori, are you ready?

[Tori Dunlop]

I'm ready.

[Jean Chatsky]

All right. Our first question comes from an anonymous listener. She writes, I'm really embarrassed about where we are right now, but I am out of ideas. We have about a hundred thousand dollars in credit card debt. We've changed our habits, made a budget, cut out the extras. Since the start of the year, we've paid almost $30,000 toward it using the avalanche method. But with high interest rates, the the balance has only gone down by about 16k. We've been denied for a HELOC and a personal loan due to a high debt to income ratio. Most consolidation offers we're seeing are over 20% and some have fees that make them worse than where we are now. Bankruptcy is not an option. I'm trying to protect my credit in case I leave this relationship. We make almost 180,000 a year and our credit scores are over 700. I want to breathe again. Is there anything else we can do?

[Tori Dunlop]

Oh, you gave me a stinker of a question, Gene. Okay, first of all, to your listener, I just want to say that I know it feels like you're drowning. I this would be a lot for anybody. So I need you to give yourself a ton of grace. And shame is not helpful or it would have worked by now. So if you feel any shame, if you feel any judgment towards yourself, we have to just say it is what it is. And working to find a solution, you've done. First of all, all of the things I would have tried. So personal loans with hopefully a lesser interest rate to help consolidate putting money towards the debt. Definitely the fact that you have over a 700 plus credit score but that you're not qualified for the personal loans tells me, I think that it's just the amount of debt, that 100k in debt that's not qualifying you for those. If you can find a personal loan with more favorable terms, I don't think that would be a bad idea. Because credit card debt is accruing and earning interest daily. Right. That's part of why it feels like the whole. It just keeps getting deeper. The sand keeps going in the holes. The personal loans are one flat monthly payment and the it's one flat interest rate. It's not accruing daily. I think this is a great time, if you haven't done so already, to make a few phone calls. Is it calls to your credit card company and telling them, hey, this is the reality. This is where I'm at. I'm very financially overwhelmed. I'm not able to do anything. Is there a 0% offer that you could give me for a period of time? Can you lower my interest rate? Is there anything that you can do to help accommodate me during financial hardship?

[Jean Chatsky]

So I'm thinking about credit counseling because.

[Anonymous Listener]

The credit counseling, it is a lot.

[Jean Chatsky]

The credit counseling industry can immediately lower your interest rates probably to around 6%. They're going to make you stop using your credit cards. But again you'll make one payment a month. It takes a while to get through credit counseling. And because it takes a while at like three to four years usually to come out the other side, a lot of people don't go for it. But you don't have to put all your debts into it. You can put in only the ones that you choose to put in, which might mean those with the very highest interest rates. So I might think about that. It will. Your credit score will take though a hit if you do it because it does show up on your credit score. So just know that going in. The other thing I would think is maybe if you're not a member of a credit union, you should go to a credit union and talk to someone at that credit union and explain what's going on and see if you can get a lower interest rate credit card for them. Because at credit unions you're often not just a number. You, you can be a person.

[Tori Dunlop]

I would also say too, if you do not have an emergency fund, I know it seems counterintuitive to say, okay, I'm not going to contribute money towards my debt and I'M going to put it in savings first. But if you're having the issue of every time, okay, you know, you put 30k towards your debt, I think you said last year, which is significant. That's a lot of money. If the issue is I keep going into credit card debt because I don't have an emergency fund keeps coming up. I got laid off or something happened with the car, I had to fix the house. It's like the problem might be okay. I'm continuing to accumulate debt, which feels more overwhelming and adding to the balance. So you. It might be worth it. Even though it seems counterintuitive to say, okay, I'm going to at least get three months of living expenses in a high yield savings account set aside for emergencies so it's there so I don't have to keep, again, digging the hole further down because I'm just putting those expenses on a credit card.

[Jean Chatsky]

Yeah, yeah. It's such a good point. And last point, then we'll go to the next question. $180,000 a year, I mean, depending on where you live, is a substantial amount of money. It's not a huge amount of money in New York or la, but in many, many other places in the country. It can give you a little bit of wiggle room. And a lot of us, when we're going through this process of trying to trim expenses, we tackle the small stuff. We look at the subscriptions, we look at the takeout, we look at the Ubers. But when it doesn't work to tackle the small stuff, we have to tackle the big stuff. We got to look at where are we living and can we live somewhere cheaper? We have to look at, we're driving two cars. Can we get rid of one of them?

[Tori Dunlop]

Or how do we earn more money, too? Like, how are we being undercompensated? Do we know that we're being undercompensated? Is it time to ask for a raise? Is it time to switch jobs? I think that for me at least, it's a lot easier, especially if you've cut a lot of the stuff. It's a lot easier to earn more money than it is to cut more.

[Jean Chatsky]

Yeah, yeah.

[Anonymous Listener]

So a menu of things, but let.

[Jean Chatsky]

Us know if you feel like dropping.

[Anonymous Listener]

Us a note how it went.

[Tori Dunlop]

Keep your head up, too.

[Jean Chatsky]

Yeah, yeah. Next question from Tina. She says there has been a huge price hike.

[Anonymous Listener]

Oh, Tori, we were just talking about this. There's been a huge price hike on.

[Jean Chatsky]

The premium credit card I use. Which one could that be? I got one. When I was younger and childless and traveling a ton. But times have changed, and that's a ridiculous fee. Can I downgrade my card and keep the line of credit consistent? How do I know when a credit card fee is really worth it? So I'm going to direct you, Tina, to the episode that we just taped with Tori, because we talked about this in depth. But let's answer the last part of this question. How do you know when the fee is worth it?

[Tori Dunlop]

Yeah, I think annual fees scare everybody, right? You see the 500, $800 annual fee, and you're like, oh, my gosh, I don't want to pay $800 for a credit card. But they're actually really fantastic tools if you're using them. I get more than enough benefit for most of my cards, and again, we talked about this in the episode of what cards I need to change, but I get more than enough benefit from that card with a hefty annual fee that it pays for itself. So I think when you start figuring out, oh, this card is costing me more than it's benefiting me, this, that's where we want to potentially downgrade. And it sounds like your life is different now. That's a really great opportunity to audit what is in your wallet. But also just generally, what do I need? What kind of support do I want from a credit card?

[Jean Chatsky]

And, and it's really, really personal. I just added the Amtrak card to my wallet, which sounds like a ridiculous credit card, but I, I, I was, I was traveling back and forth to New York from Philadelphia once or twice a week for a couple of years, and I racked up a lot of Amtrak reward points very, very quickly, enough to get me comped into the Metropolitan Lounges. And the one at Moynihan, which is the new Penn Station in New York City, is lovely. I was using it as my wework. I would just schedule meetings and have people come and see me and get.

[Anonymous Listener]

A free cup of coffee, and, and.

[Jean Chatsky]

I stopped doing it as much. And they basically said, yeah, you don't have enough points to qualify. But they were offering a 40,000 point bonus if you spent $3,000 within the first three months on this credit card, which was easy enough for me to do. So I got the card, I got the 40,000 bonus. It doesn't get me back in the clubs, but, but you can use the points for admission to the club. So this essentially gets me like, 30 free visits to the Metropolitan Club, which is going to be enough to sustain me for a year. Ish. And totally, totally worth it. Much, much cheaper than a wework, so you got to do your own calculus. We've got one more question, Tori, but before we get there, quick word from our sponsors. Lately, I've been traveling a lot, speaking at conferences, meeting with teams, logging in from hotel rooms and airports and more coffee shops than I can count. And every time I open my laptop to check email or review slides, I know I'm taking a risk if I'm not protected. Public WI fi may be convenient, but it's also one of the easiest places for hackers to grab your personal info. Passwords, credit cards, even bank logins. That's why I love ExpressVPN. It creates a secure, encrypted tunnel between your devices and the Internet so you can stay connected and confident no matter where you are. Simple to use. Just one click and it works across your phone, laptop and tablet. If you travel or work on the go like I do, this is one tool that you need in your digital toolkit. Secure your online data today by visiting expressvpn.com hermoney that's E X P R E S S V P N to find out how you can get up to 4 months extra free. Expressvpn.com hermoney so here's a little behind the scenes moment. My producer Haley got married a couple years ago, and like so many couples, she and her husband had no idea where to even start when it came to merging their finances. Different accounts, different spending styles, and a lot of awkward you spent how much this week on takeout conversations? But then they found Monarch Money and it changed everything. It became their go to tool for syncing up financially. They linked all their accounts, checking credit cards, even investments, and started doing regular monthly check ins. Now they track spending, set vacation goals, and stay on the same page without all the stress. And the best part, Monarch makes it feel easy, like you're both in control of your financial future together. Get control of your overall finances with Monarch Money. Use code [e-mail] in your browser for half off your first year. That's 50% off your first year at monarchmoney.com with code hermoney and I'm back with Tori Dunlap, host of the financial feminist podcast. Finally, we've got a question from Ali, who's asking about savings benchmarks. When you and Fidelity talk about retirement benchmarks, are those numbers based only on invested assets or do they include net worth? I'm 52 and between investments and real estate equity, our net worth is around $4 million. Two million of that is in investments. We've got very little debt. So are we ahead of the benchmark or behind it? Also, my partner is 56. Do we average our ages to figure out how we're doing as a couple? So it's so funny. Tori and I just taped her show, which I hope that you'll all tune in and listen to. We were talking about the retirement benchmarks, and I can't actually answer whether you are ahead of the benchmark or behind it because you didn't tell me how much you owe are earning. And the benchmarks are you want to have 1 times your income at age 30, 3 times at 40, 6 times at 50, 8 times at 60, and 10 times by the time that you retire. But we need to know what your income is in order to know it is not necessarily your real estate. And the reason it's not your real estate is that you still need a place to live once you retire, unless it's an investment property. But how do you think about benchmarking your way to retirement?

[Tori Dunlop]

I think that this is one of the places. I don't know if we'll disagree, but I don't rely on benchmarks as much, I think, because a lot of women in our audience are kind of starting their financial journeys, and benchmarks just make them feel like shit. Unfortunately. I think everybody loves a good benchmark. And I think also it's very easy to read a benchmark and immediately get discouraged because you're, like, nowhere close, so why even try? The thing I always say is that if you're using benchmarks again in a way that feels helpful, in a way that feels encouraging, great. And if they do just make you feel down on yourself, find something else, right? Find another marker of success for you. Is it your savings rate that is, you know, very personal to you? Is it just that, you know, your general disposition around money. Is it like, well, money doesn't scare me anymore, and I use it as a tool and as an asset. So those are some of the things that I focus on more with my audience because they tend to be younger, tend to be more beginner. I think that the one benchmark I use personally and that I teach is, like, sticky numbers. And what I mean by that is, like, if you're trying to figure out, like, how much do I save without also depriving myself, it should feel a little sticky. Meaning, okay, I'm not buying everything I want, but I'm also not depriving myself, so I'm going out to eat twice a week. Three times would be a little much, but like two feels challenging or 20% of my savings rate or 10% that feels challenging, but it doesn't mean that I can never ever have fun again. So that's the kind of benchmark and it's again hyper personal, but that I use both in my life and that I use with our community.

[Jean Chatsky]

I love that. A sticky number. We're going to have to add that to the vocabulary. Tori thanks for thanks for coming back to answer questions. Always great to see you. Where should people go to hear more?

[Tori Dunlop]

Thanks for having me. Her first 100k.com quiz gives you a free personalized money plan for wherever you're at in your financial journey. But you can also find me at her first 100k on our website or socials. Would love to see you.

[Jean Chatsky]

Thanks so much.

[Anonymous Listener]

If you love today's episode, please take a moment to leave us a five star review on Apple Podcast. Your feedback means the world to me. And if you're ready to keep the Money conversation going, HerMoney has three amazing, amazing programs designed to help you feel more confident and in control of your money. There's Finance Fix. It's our four week coaching program that helps you rethink your spending, find hidden savings, and make smarter choices for the future. Our Pre Retirement program runs for six weeks and walks you through building a retirement strategy that's personalized for your next chapter. Finally, there's Investing Fix, our investing club for women. It meets every other week on Zoom. It is a supportive space to learn, ask questions, grow your investing confidence and build your portfolio. And your first month is absolutely free. These programs are truly helping level the playing field for women financially. I'd love for you to join us. Her Money is produced by Haley Pascalides and our music is provided by Video Helper. Thanks so much for listening and we'll talk soon.