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HerMoney with Jean Chatzky
Your Money Map Replay: Jason Dorsey on Why Retirement Isn’t What It Used to Be
00:35:26
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- [00:02]
A
People tend to grossly underestimate their spending in retirement, so they think they're going to spend a lot less money. I mean, they've got this magic number of, oh, I'm going to spend 60% of what I spend right now. And the reality is, unfortunately, it's very hard for people generally to adjust down right, like unless you're in a crisis situation. So you're like, oh, you only live once, you know, you've got all these things going on and so forth. So we find generally people tend to spend more than they anticipate overall, just as consumers.
- [00:31]
B
Hey everyone, welcome to Her Money. I'm Jeanne Chaty. Today's conversation is rooted in research and what that research tells us about how Americans are approaching retirement in 2025. Right now, we are in the thick of Peak 65. That's a milestone where more Americans are hitting that traditional retirement age than ever before. But for many people, the retirement that they expected is shifting. Many are not financially prepared. Some are delaying retirement altogether, and a growing number are questioning whether retirement in the traditional sense even makes sense for them. To help us unpack all of this, I sat down with Jason Dorsey, president of the center for Generational Kinetics and one of the leading voices in the country on generational financial behavior. We talked on a recent episode of youf Money Map, the show I host with the alliance for Lifetime Income. Jason and I explored how baby boomers, Gen Xers and even millennials are approaching the concept of retirement emotionally, practically and financially. It's a conversation full of eye opening insights and a few much needed reality checks. So stick around and as always, you can find more tools and resources from the alliance for lifetime income@protectedincome.org we're going.
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C
To take a very quick break, so.
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B
Expressvpn.com hermoney here's my conversation with Jason Dorsey. Jason, welcome to the show.
- [04:19]
C
Thank you so much for being here.
- [04:21]
A
Thank you, Jean. Glad to be here and such an important conversation. So thrilled to be a part of it.
- [04:26]
C
I totally agree. So as I said, this year marks the peak of what the alliance calls Peak 65. This period of time when Americans are turning age 65 in bigger numbers than ever before. From your perspective, what is different about this group of retirees compared to prior generations?
- [04:54]
A
Yeah. In our latest research, and Yalls research also alludes to this, there was a real perception that at this magical age, you know, all of a sudden your life would be different. You know, you'd have more leisure time, maybe you'd be active, but you wouldn't be working as much. You'd sort of be going into this new phase, maybe legacy and purpose and all of these wonderful things. And what our research shows is, unfortunately, that is largely crashing on the rocks of reality right now, where we have so many people that are hitting this age and are not financially in the place where they thought they would be for all kinds of reasons. But what we see is that at 65, it used to really be this milestone and now it's become more of a blur. So it's interesting. Previous generations also when we think about retirement and this is very grim. So I'm sorry to be grim, but I'm a researcher so we try to bring the truth. You know, life expectancy was also very different. You know, now we've got people hitting 65 and, you know, they may live another 20 plus years. My mentor who I spoke to yesterday is 94 years old and has more energy than I do. So there's a real shift in terms of what's going to happen post 65, which I think is really fascinating. So when we look at it, previous generations saw this as not so much reaching the finish line, but reaching a time when their life was going to meaningfully change and for all kinds of reasons. And now we're seeing that not happen in the way that people wanted to or expected. And frankly, lots of the baby boomers we interview don't want it to just become hanging out in Florida. They want to have a sense of purpose. They want something to do. They want to keep generating income. So it's a really, really massive shift that I think for most people is hard to see because it's been so gradual. But when you look back by generation, it is dramatic.
- [06:35]
C
As we talk about the generations on the cusp here, we're talking about the boomers who are definitely in it. We're also talking about the Xers. I kind of sit on the cusp, so I'm very interested in how these generations are different from each other as well as from previous generations. What do you see?
- [06:56]
A
Yeah, so when we think about the contrast, let's just take boomers in Gen X. You know, baby boomers grew up at a time which, you know even better than me in terms of your research. They had, you know, defined benefits plans and pensions and all kinds of expectations around Social Security, Medicare. There's a whole lot of institutional promises that baby boomers came of age with and many of them really continue to benefit from that in a variety of ways. Gen X was the group where we just want to compare some of the financial pieces. Gen X was the group where all those things were broken, just shattered at a really formative age. So you had mass layoffs, changes in government plans. You had these companies that had been around forever that suddenly went bankrupt. You saw pensions go bankrupt. There was just a lot of broken promises is the way I like to think about it. At the same time, again, I meant to the truth. Divorce rate goes through the roof. We saw this around Gen X. Women entered the workforce and massive numbers, tons of Reasons we could look into that. And just a real shift even in some of the family structure from baby boomers to Gen X massively. I mean, Gen X, who I love to study, my wife's in Gen X. Right. You know, those were the latchkey kids. They got let themselves in, they took the bus home, they walked home by themselves. And we look at generations today. Like my daughter, I'm like, sure, you can walk to the mailbox as long as I can. And we have five cameras. But a really big shift. And so what we see conceptually is baby boomers really relied on these big promises and thought that was going to guide them. Gen X sort of swung the other direction and said we've got to be really self reliant. And one of the things we see in our Gen X research is just really intense skepticism. In fact, you know, I'm a millennial and I speak at all these corporate events all around the world. And I always tell my millennials, it's not that Gen X doesn't like you, it's that they don't believe you. Right. And if you know that, you know how to work with them. And so a really massive shift between those two. We also saw some of these things. The technology difference is dramatic. Gen X has much higher adoption rates of pretty much all tech compared to baby boomers. And you know, trust in banks has changed. I mean, there's so much, you know, because you're a customer, you get to see both sides of it. But when we interview people on the other ends, it's dramatic. Like it's a while. Almost like a movie.
- [09:09]
C
I listen to your descriptions though, and even though I'm on the cusp, I do feel like I'm kind of a Gen X poster child a bit. Right. I got my first job, they handed me a 401k, didn't tell me what to do with it. I blew it like so many people of my generation, because I just didn't understand it. And as a result got a late start, really saving and investing for retirement. One of the things that the study shows, it's called the 2020 Protected Retirement Income and Planning Study, we call it PRIPP for short. That was conducted by the alliance in Ipsos. 30% of consumers age 61 to 65 are thinking about delaying retirement. You mentioned a lot of people are just not prepared. Is that what's driving this or is it a combo of factors?
- [10:07]
A
Yeah. In our latest study that we've done where we've looked at this, it tends to be a combination of Financial reality setting in. Right. Part of that is people living longer, maybe not having the financial stability that they thought they would have, or ways to generate income and so forth. So there is a real sense of financial pressure. I mean, one of the things we don't talk about much is that the cost of healthcare has gone through the roof. And people are really thinking about that. The cost of things like assisted living, I mean, even home health, all of these things have skyrocketed. So there's a real cost around that. The other part is with baby boomers in particular, we see that they really tend to draw much of their identity from their work. And so when they transition out of that, it's a real threat to their identity. And we see all kinds of things for people that don't make that sort of change. Well, and so they need a social outlet. They need a reason to meet new people. And what we find with boomers, and I don't like to speak in huge generalities, but here it seems to be a big thing where they really want a sense of purpose. They want a reason to get up, to go do something. And it doesn't have to be. And this is what's really interesting. It doesn't have to be a full day. And I think that's where people get caught up. They take the typical work experience or work week and think, oh, you know, boomers are going to want that. That's not actually what we find. We find they might want 10 or 20 hours or some number, and it's often a combination of work, volunteering, other things. They just want a social outlet, social connection, make new friends. I mean, we were just interviewing some last week, and it was really sad, but they were talking about how, you know, a lot of the people that they grew up with have died recently. And this is a real thing. And so not only are they not at work, but now they're losing the friends that they've known for 40, 50 years. And they've got to relearn the muscle of how to go make new friends. And so that's part of giving them, you know, an outlet for that, whether that's socially or through work. So we think, and I get a lot of heat for this, but I think baby boomers, many of them, are going to work as long as they can. And that's controversial, but we keep seeing it. It's not for everybody, but those who can and want to will try to find a way to have a job and a sense of purpose as long as they can. And by the way as an employer, we want them as long as possible. I employ baby boomers, stay in the workforce Boomers. We need you.
- [12:07]
C
We do. We need their wisdom, of course, but it's also, it's a numbers game a bit. And replacing them has been shown to be really, really hard. You talk about purpose. The word that my mother used for it was useful. She just wanted to feel useful, which I think is kind of a synonym for feeling like you have a purpose in life. Are you seeing the young Gen Xers contemplating a later retirement as well, or a no retirement as well? Or are they more on board with the fire movement where they want to get out as soon as they can?
- [12:44]
A
Yeah. So younger Gen Xers, and just for everybody's benefit, the birth years sort of change and move around a little bit, but just for easy reference, they can be like Gen x is like 48 to 60 ish. So somewhere in that range, give or take a few years on either side. When we think of younger Gen X, they have realized. So we do these studies constantly about your views on Social Security, retirement and so forth. And it's interesting, the younger you go in Gen X, the more skepticism they have that Social Security will exist for them. And so that plays a role into it. They also are, depending on where they live, may be feeling a little bit of the wealth effect because they may have bought a house or owned a house and had it at better rates than millennials, for example, which is a reality right now. So the question we're seeing from them, is there a path for retirement balanced against. And this is the trick part of it, taking care of their aging parents who are probably going to outlive their money, and then also supporting their kids who are probably going to need more support than they had anticipated. And this tension of being pulled in both directions financially is extraordinarily hard. We document this all the time in our work. And so Gen X feels very pulled. And as a result, when it comes to retirement, a lot of them think that they're just going to have to work a lot longer and don't necessarily know when things are going to get easier. So you try to do retirement planning often by like a day for an age or something. And it's hard to do that when you've got two groups that are still unknown.
- [14:05]
C
Well, one of the things that, that we see, and we see it in the research, is that only about a third of people between the ages of 45 and 75 even have a detailed retirement plan. More than half are afraid very Afraid in some cases of outliving their savings, but yet they avoid doing the work to see if the numbers line up. Why do you think that is.
- [14:32]
A
Definitely going to get flack for this answer? Denial is a powerful force and it's easier to deny it or be an avoidance than to actually look at the cold hard facts of where things are. And it's easy to say, I'm busy, too busy, you know, or maybe just justify it, I can't ever retire or we've got so much money, I don't need to plan. But what we know is when people really take the time to create a plan, a detailed plan, often with the professional or alone, but usually with professional it's very eye opening because one, it removes the mystery, which tends to drive fear. And at the same time, people tend to feel more in control by the end of it. Now, they may not like it, they may not like what they see, they may be scared, sad, I mean, all of the range of emotions, right? We've done lots of retirement conversations where people just cry, right? It's just, it's scary, it's sad. Like it sucks. You know, you're 50 years old and you thought you were going to be in a different place and you're not, or you made some decisions and they didn't work out. Like, these are hard things. But that shouldn't keep you from taking the time to really get clear, honest or candid with your situation and then come up with a plan so that starting from wherever you are, you can begin to create that financial situation that you want. And that's, it's really hard. And in fact, Gene, one of the things that I find fascinating because we study multiple generations right in the workforce as consumers, trendsetters, younger generations want to have this conversation with their Gen X parents, but they oftentimes don't know how. And if those parents didn't condition that conversation that it's okay to talk about money and finances or retirement or inheritance or wills or whatever, that conversation doesn't happen. And then now you take a Gen Xer who's not really digging into their finances to make better decisions and you're creating a legacy of that. A lot of times where that next generation doesn't develop that muscle. And that's something I'm really on a mission to try to change.
- [16:22]
C
That's so interesting. Why do you think it is that the younger generation is more willing to come to the table?
- [16:28]
A
What we're seeing is social media has made talking about money with younger adults very acceptable. To the point where, you know, I mean, Gen Z wants to know how much money you make before they'll go on a date with you.
- [16:40]
C
So true. No, no. So true. My, my daughter is Gen Z and she knows exactly how much all of her friends make, which I don't have a clue how much all of my friends make. I mean, I can ballpark it, but you know, she knows to the dollar it's real because they talk about it. So I actually think that's a really good thing. You raised healthcare before and as we talk about how to help people plan, planning for healthcare, planning for long term care, planning for inflation is part of the issue, but also planning for spending in general. How do you find that the people that you talk to who are comfortable that they will be able to stay on a steady course through retirement with their spending, what have they done to solve for this?
- [17:39]
A
Yeah, well, there's sort of two things that we've seen. One is people tend to grossly underestimate their spending in retirement. So they think they're going to spend a lot less money. I mean, they've got this magic number of oh, I'm going to spend 60% of what I spend right now or like suddenly their life is going to get simpler and they're just not going to be buying lattes or something. And the reality is, unfortunately it's very hard for people generally to adjust down. Right. Like unless you're in a crisis situation. So you're like, oh, you only live once you've got all these things going on and so forth. So we find generally people tend to spend more than they anticipate overall, just as consumers. Right. We're not even talking about the items that you said. So I think that's a real aspect of it. The people that have been able to navigate this do a few things. One, they tend to have a budget which, you know, a lot of people don't want to budget. So you know, budgeting I think is really important. The second thing we see is transparency and trust. Like particularly with couples being able to share honestly, I can't tell you how many times meet people and like one of the partners and I, you know, I'm not trying to pick genders. It could be either has some credit card that the other one doesn't know about or you know, has some other thing going on that the other one doesn't know about. And so you've got to be able to have enough trust around that transparency to have the tough conversations to make those decisions. And then the Other part is I think sometimes people feel, well, if I'm on a budget, that means that I'm not going to get to do great things. And that's not true. We always say, like, just plan for the fun, right? You want to go on that cruise, you want to go on that trip, you want to go to whatever the show, awesome. Just plan for it in advance, right? You don't have to put it on a credit card or some other thing. So it's just, you would think it gets easier for people who have lots of lived experience to have these conversations. And the reality is it doesn't. And sometimes it's even harder. What we have found going really into the weeds is for many, this is really with couples, but can be for individuals. Having a financial person that can help you to make those decisions bring the candor, show different options, like, really help you to understand your money in a way that's probably more advanced than most. Most certainly than me. Then that seems to be really helpful. Not so much as a referee, but as a point of reference. That tends to be nonjudgmental. And it also takes the blame game off of each other. Right? Because it's not your idea or your idea, it's their idea. Right? Like that sort of thing. Triangulating around spending, I think is really important with a good financial person. And one of the things I like to share with people is just because somebody understands finance doesn't mean they're the right person to give you advice. And it's right, like we all have different risk thresholds and tolerances and lived experiences and everything else. And so just because somebody, you know, says this worked for them or this has worked for their clients, it doesn't mean it's, you know, the truth. It's a truth. Right? And it's okay to go get other opinions, but don't just get other opinions to prove yourself right.
- [20:28]
C
When you talk about people spending more in retirement than they expected, does that tend to happen in the first couple of years of retirement? I was digging this week into Chase's data on retirement spending and they, they see a bump in, in spending a couple of years before retirement and then a couple of years into retirement as people take the big trips and play a lot of golf, or do the thing, renovate the home, do the things they've been sitting on. One of the other things that we've seen in some of the research commissioned by the alliance is people not spending that. People have some real fear about digging into their nest egg, real fear about Spending principle, even though saving in order to spend has been what you've ostensibly been doing for decades, do you see that as well?
- [21:30]
A
Yeah, both of those things we see play out for very different reasons. The spending right after tends to be a combination of pent up demand, hey, we can finally take that trip because I'm not working or I have the freedom or all these things combined with. And this we hear a lot. I'm the healthiest I'm likely ever to be. So if I'm going to do these things, I should do them sooner rather than later. And so that's a real thing, right. Many of the people we're talking about have seen health decline among their friends and family and other things. So there's also a feeling of if I'm going to do it, I need to do it soon because, you know, the way health tends to decline over time. So. So that's one of those pieces, right? It's not just, oh my gosh, I'm going to go spend everything. It's, you know, there's some logic behind it, right or wrong. The other piece though, the not spending really speaks to people's fear of outliving their money. And if I can be so bold, frequently it comes down to I don't want to be a burden on my kids. And so you hear that a lot, right? Like I don't want to, you know, burden them with having to take care of me or you know, I want to delay that as long as possible. And so I'm going to live as cheaply as I can, almost, sometimes almost like punish myself for not being a better financial situation by trying to live as low cost as possible. And those are complicated conversations to have, right? They're complicated ones to encourage your parents to spend some of their money or to, you know, do some of those once in a lifetime things while you can. And I think it's a real challenge. And it goes back to your initial sort of question and thought around good planning enables you to more confidently make good decisions. And when you don't have good planning and you don't see how the numbers work, people tend to operate out of fear. And that just, that doesn't lead to great decisions over a long period of time. And so the more we can have boomers and really every generation having honest conversations about their finances, good planning, and feel confident they're making the right decisions. I just had such a, a big advantage for all of them, like it's such a big gain for them to be able to do that.
- [23:25]
C
So, yeah, I mean, one of the, one of the findings that we saw in this year's PRIP study, but we've been starting to see it over time, is that a lot of people believe that they would like to. They want an income component. They want an income component that's going to last for them the rest of their life, whether that means delaying Social Security in order to get it or, or maximizing some pension that they're lucky enough to have, or purchasing an annuity with some of their retirement nest egg. Do you find that as well?
- [24:01]
A
Yeah, absolutely. The. It's interesting when we talk with boomers and really anybody who's sort of retirement, one of the top things that always comes up is how am I going to generate income, right? These are people that have gotten a paycheck for 40 plus years, maybe more. And so they're, they're used to that. So it can be hard to say, well, I'm just going to have this nest egg, hope it goes up every year, and then draw down a certain amount that I was told was okay. Like, psychologically that can be really hard for that group because they're used to getting a check every two weeks or so often. So having that switch into income generating investments or annuities or any of these things, that gives them the peace of mind to help them know, hey, that's coming in for, you know, as long as I'll be here is really helpful. The other part of it, which is interesting, which nobody ever talks about, is the impact it can have on inheritance. Right. A lot of the boomers we interview, they like I, their, their gift, if you will. Their legacy a lot of times is I want to be able to leave something to my kids. I want my kids and grandkids to have it, you know, more than I received. Right. My dad's baby boomer, he always jokes, you know, I inherited a cue ball, I'm hoping to give you more. Right. And it's a funny, awkward conversation because I'm like, great, but you don't have to give me anything. Like, I'm, I'm going to keep working, spend it, go have some fun, you know. But my dad is still 73 years old and still works every day. And so I think those sort of things all play into the idea of how can I generate some income but still be able to make sure that I'm not a burden often on my children or on others. If you don't have any kids, which I think is really important, we're going.
- [25:31]
B
To take a very quick break.
- [25:33]
D
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- [26:37]
B
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- [26:38]
D
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- [26:42]
C
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D
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C
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D
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- [27:48]
C
Have you seen any perception shift or differences in perception of annuities among generations? Whether we're talking about boomers and Xers or millennials, we're seeing again from results about half of financial advisors telling us they're putting more clients into these instruments.
- [28:09]
A
Yeah, definitely. I think there was a lot of, you know, either misunderstanding or no understanding, you know, in the previous probably 10, 20 years around this. I think there's more excitement, more enthusiasm and just a better understanding of how this works and how it fits. I Also think advisors have historically not known how to explain this in a way that crosses different generations. And I think they're getting better at that and helping to understand it. So we're definitely seeing just a really strong desire for stability within portfolios and annuities, for example, are one of the ways that can happen. That tends to be very predictable, and people really like that. So I think you're going to see more and more of that. And, you know, again, I like to look at this generationally. Think of all the unexpected, one time, never happen again, events that have happened in the last 10, 15, 20 years. Like, I mean, it's like every day there's another thing that happens once every 100 years. Right. And so anything that can add stability in the time of so much instability, we see people being much more keen about.
- [29:08]
C
Yeah, I would imagine that's particularly true of the younger generations who came out of college, into the financial crisis, went through Covid, have gone through so much more volatility than I saw earlier in my career. And it's really, you know, it's difficult for them, I think, to imagine that there can be stability completely.
- [29:32]
A
I mean, it's a real. It's the top thing that shows up behaviorally in our work. And, you know, stability can mean different things to different people, but the financial component is very consistent. And I just, you know, when you look at younger generations, because that's who we study all the time. In addition, older generations, younger generations, like, don't think they're going to be able to buy a house in the way that their parents or their grandparents did. They're not sure that they're going to have any Social Security. We keep seeing that in our studies. Right. Or Medicare or anything else. So you're just creating this massive cloud of unknowns in their future. And so anything that they can do to help them sort of navigate through that, they're really interested in, which is great. And they're willing to talk about money, like you said, which is wild.
- [30:07]
C
Yeah. The confidence in Social Security is. Is something that. That came out of this research as well. We asked the question and found that more than half of consumers 45 to 75 are less confident in Social Security now than they were five years ago. You can understand that we get news reports on the fact that the trust fund is going to run out of money. That not that means that you won't get anything. It just means that the government has to do something in order to bring it back to par. But based on these headlines, I think that you can understand why people feel that way. Are you seeing that changing retirement expectations for people and are people planning differently as a result?
- [30:56]
A
Yeah, for sure. On all, on all the above. So Social Security I think is a pretty nuanced conversation and obviously you're an expert in it, so I'll be a little more nuanced than normal. There's a big difference between thinking Social Security won't exist or Social Security won't exist in a way that meets your financial needs. And so I think people are trying to balance those two and it's hard. Right. Do I get half of the Social Security I expected? Oh, I was a high income earner so therefore I'm not going to get any now or you know, Social Security won't exist because you know, we just believe it won't be there, it's going to run out of money. Those are very different scenarios and I think that depending on your view of that sort of influences the decisions you make. What we are seeing is younger generations are investing more in 401ks, specifically if they're auto enrolled and we're seeing them more proactively. Think about that. But there's a general sense. It's funny, the closer you get to retirement age, the more confident people are that they're going to have Social Security. Right. And go figure, yeah, like shocking this guy over here, a researcher. Then you get to sort of this like, like lull in the middle which you're sort of talking about that age group that it could be there, it could not. It's probably not going to be there in the way that I expect. You know, how do I navigate that? And then we have younger generations that are really bifurcated and they're like it's not going to exist at all, so it doesn't matter. Then you have another group that's like what's Social Security?
- [32:17]
C
Right.
- [32:20]
A
So it's a really interesting time that when we look at it by averages you get some of these insights that, that don't necessarily speak to more of the broader groups. But, but yeah, we do. See trying to understand Social Security is something that heavily weighs on retirement planning. And I would argue just the concept of retirement looks different the younger you go. Like we see people that think they're going to work forever. Like you know, they're just going to keep working because they see their parents are continuing to work or their grandparents. And we see people that think, ah, why do I work so hard now? Because if I'm going to work forever, let's just Work less and you know, take it easy. All of these things are playing out and so much of it is impacted by Social Security, which by the way, historically has always been an older person's conversation and now is very much a conversation among younger people, which is really wild.
- [33:04]
C
Yeah, yeah, it's fascinating. So if you were going to put on your advice hat for the couple of minutes that we have left and give three pieces of advice to pre read diaries of various ages, what would you tell them to do?
- [33:18]
A
Ooh, okay. All right, three pieces of advice. Well, I'm into simple things that tend to drive outcomes. That's sort of behaviorally what I find people are most likely to do. So the, the first thing that I would encourage people that are pre retirees to do is to create a one or two page snapshot of your financial picture. This is not a budget, this is a get real with where we are in terms of what we have, debt, assets, all those sorts of pieces. And sometimes people are like, oh, I don't know how to list all this stuff. Just put it on a piece of paper. Right. It's so incredibly important to have it on something simple that enables you to have a starting place and be able to have that conversation with if you have a significant other, so forth. But really we find one or two pages max really helps people to get a snapshot through their financial situation. That'd be the first one. The second one which you talked about would be to work with somebody to develop a financial plan. And to me, a financial plan. The key with that is it gives you the understanding you need and the confidence you need and the clarity without being so complex that you don't understand it if you can't explain it back, it's not a good financial plan. So you've got sort of a starting place, you've got the plan, and then the third one, which is probably reach, but definitely have a conversation or conversations about money, finances, inheritance, sort of anything like that with your family. I can't tell you how many times that we particularly I speak a lot of family owned companies, people just won't have those conversations and they assume all these things about others and it just, it really can pull families apart. So one of the best things you can do to honor your kids and your grandkids and your legacy is to have the conversation while everybody is there or the right stakeholders are, so everybody understands. It is such a gift to your family to have financial conversations.
- [35:05]
C
It is, it is huge because it just enables your kids, your grandkids to make smarter choices about how they're going to run their own financial lives. If you're a grandparent and you're planning on helping for college, then your kids can heavy up on their own retirement. But if they don't have that information, it's impossible for them to make their own decisions. So I echo that advice and I think, I think it's, I think it's spot on. Jason, if people want to access more about you and your work, where do you want them to go?
- [35:44]
A
Sure. The best place to go is just to my website because we have a lot of great free videos. Our research you can download for free all the, all the goodies, right? If you're Gen X, you want to download it and read it. Or if you're millennial, you want to watch it. It's Jason dorsey.com super easy. Jason d o r s e y.com and then we release our research on LinkedIn. So for any of your fans and friends that are big on LinkedIn, definitely reach out there. That's where we tend to release all of our new studies. So yeah, either of those easy. Love to stay in touch with everybody. I love this conversation, as you can tell.
- [36:11]
C
Oh, so do I. I hope that you'll come back. It's always a pleasure to talk to you.
- [36:16]
B
Thank you so much.
- [36:18]
A
Thank you, Eugene. Thanks for what you do. Really appreciate you.
- [36:22]
B
If you're looking for more tools and information to help you navigate retirement, be sure to visit the alliance for lifetime income@protectedincome.org and while you're there, sign up for their newsletter. You can do that@protectedincome.org subscribe and if you're ready to keep the Money conversation going. HerMoney has three amazing programs designed to help you feel more confident and in control of your money. There's Finance Fix. It's our four week coaching program that helps you rethink your spending, find hidden savings and make smarter choices for the future. Our pre retirement program runs for six weeks and walks you through building a retirement strategy that's personal personalized for your next chapter. Finally, there's Investing Fix, our investing club for women. It meets every other week on Zoom. It is a supportive space to learn, ask questions, grow your investing confidence and build your portfolio. And your first month is absolutely free. These programs are truly helping level the playing field for women women financially. I'd love for you to join us. Her money is produced by Haley Pascalides and our music is provided by Video Helper. Thanks so much for listening and we'll talk soon.