← HerMoney with Jean Chatzky
HerMoney with Jean Chatzky
Your Money Map Replay: Worried About Making Your Money Last? The Budgetnista’s Retirement Reality Check
00:33:01
Budgeting in retirement when costs keep rising.
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B
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C
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B
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C
Namaste.
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B
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C
1-800-Contacts. The key to me in retirement is how can I maintain the lowest overhead possible? You know, that's one of the things is like can I get debt free before retirement? Meaning if you have to work that extra year, it might be worth it. I want you to also look at Social Security while we still have it. There are certain ages where if you stay a little while longer, there might be a little bit more money there for you. And just making your plan ahead of time.
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B
Hey everyone. Welcome to Her Money. I'm Jean Chatky. And if you've been watching prices rise, checking your bank balance too often, and wondering how on earth you're going to make your money last through retirement, you are not alone. Lately it feels like the cost of living is getting out of control. And for many, the idea of budgeting in retirement feels. Well, it feels impossible. This week on youn Money Map, the show I host for Limra's alliance for Lifetime Income. I'm joined by Tiffany Alice, better known as the Budget Nista. You know her as a best selling author, a nationally recognized financial educator and a champion for women's financial empowerment. And she says you can find financial peace even in retirement. We talk about real strategies for reducing spending without feeling deprived, why community matters more than ever, and how her own experience of losing everything and rebuilding from the ground up changed the way she teaches and supports others. As always, for more tools and tips on building retirement income you can't outlive, head to protectedincome.org and don't forget, sign up for the newsletter and@protectedincome.org subscribe here's my conversation with Tiffany Alice. Tiffany, welcome.
- [03:27]
C
Hi Jean. Thank you for having me.
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B
Thank you for being here. You're no stranger. You've been here. But as I was saying before we launched, it's been a minute since you've joined us. For those people who somehow don't know you or your journey, just give us a little bit of the backstory on how you went from being a teacher to being the budget.
- [03:49]
C
Nista well, it kind of just started at home. My father was a CFO and an accountant and my mom a nurse. But I learned about money very early on. So much so I don't ever remember not learning about personal finance. And as you can imagine, I've made so many mistakes in my 20s. But the lessons that I learned from home carried me through. I decided to become a teacher after college and even as I was teaching my students, my three and four year olds, I noticed that the parents were struggling financially where I was teaching in Newark, New Jersey. And it sparked this. I want to teach, but also I want to teach across the board. So I started to have like parent university during that time. This is how you budget. This is how you save. This is how you open a bank account. This is how you do your taxes. Because my dad had taught me. And so it grew from there. The recession hit. I lost my job because my school lost their funding and I decided to just take the budget needs to show on the road. And so 16 years later, here I am and just like, just still as passionate about helping people reach what I call financial wholeness.
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B
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- [07:23]
C
Absolutely. So up until about 25, 26, I would call myself financially perfect. Okay. I had like a 802 credit score. I had $30,000 saved even though I was teaching preschool because I tutored, I babysat, I lived very frugally. And so even when I would help my friends, I probably, I couldn't fully. I could sympathize, but I could not empathize, you know, because it, it wasn't me. And then when I was about 26, I fell victim to a scam from somebody who had been my friend for a number of years. I told him cause I thought he was wealthy. I was at an age where you think that wealth is obviously like if someone had all the nice things, which he did, that must mean they have money. So I told him, could he teach me how to grow my own wealth? And he said, sure, you look foolish. I mean Tiffany. And so he said really wealthy People use other people's money to invest. I said, oh, my gosh, how do you do that? He said, do you have a credit card? I said, just one. My father always told me paid off every month in full. I've been doing that since I was 18. That's why my credit score was so high. He was like, well, you can open up other credit cards. You could pull money off. I did not know that. It's called the cash advance. And he was like, I did not know the interest rates were like your first, second, third born and on your toes. And he's like, pull the money off and then we'll invest in. Of course we did not invest it. He stole it and ran off. And this is during. What I did not know was the recession, because this was 2000, you know, and so it. Then what happened was maybe within six months, you know, like, all of a sudden, my house that was worth so much because I bought a condo when I was 25. I'm seeing the prices dip. And then my school closed and I didn't have a job, and I had just finished my master's for all of this debt, $50,000 masters, $220,000 condo, the credit card debt that I now have because of the cash advance, all came crashing down, and I did not have a job. And so it was that that took me from, oh, this is how people feel when they come to ask me for help. This terror, this fear, this what am I going to do? This shame, this anger, you know, at yourself, at the world. And it shifted the way I started to approach people when teaching financial education, because I'm like, no, there has to be a deeper level of empathy and kindness that you bring to the table, Tiffany.
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B
100%. You referenced the financial crisis since you were last on this show. We've been through the aftermath of the. The COVID pandemic. As you talk to people about their money these days, what has changed the most? And what has changed the most, specifically when it comes to their approach to retirement?
- [10:06]
C
It sounds sad, but there used to be more hopefulness that I would find in people. They just knew, okay, I know I can tighten up. I know I can spend a little less here. And now, folks are like, I'm not even overspending, and it's still not enough. Where can I tighten if this extension doesn't happen, how am I going to be able to afford health care? You know, I had one mom tell me, like, I'm paying $50 a month for universal healthcare. Because as we know, the Federal government kind of chips in so you can afford. She said it would go to $1,500. Like that is impossible. This is not about budgeting and saving. And so, yeah, that's what I'm seeing. Covid didn't bring hopelessness that I'm seeing now from people. Covid was more so people were worried about their health, but like, I can rebuild. And now they're like, I just don't know what going to happen and if it's even possible for me to take care of myself and my family anymore.
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B
And what are you saying to people? I mean, it's a very interesting problem that you put your finger on because there are some problems that we can solve by looking at the numbers, by tightening up, maybe by taking on a little bit of extra work if you happen to have time in your day, which a lot of people don't. What do you say when you can't do that?
- [11:23]
C
Honestly? Because then it's not really a financial solve. So what I've been telling people is to intentionally build community around you. So one of the things I did when I lost my job is I slept on my sister's couch for like nine months. And then when my sister, that same sister decided that she did not want to work, she wanted to leave her career. And she was just like, yeah, but I have bills. I said, now I have a house, you could stay with me. And so intentionally building community around where it's, you know, we've heard people, you know, like your grandparents used to be able to borrow sugar from the neighbor. Yeah. And so that's what it's not going to just be, oh, I've budgeted, I've saved, I'm investing. It's going to be building community. Can you watch the kids while I go drive Uber? Because you know your neighbor. And so to me, I think the solution, because I cannot solve for the bigger problem of what happens when, if politically that's not something I could solve for, but I can solve for if I do have to make extra money. And I've got kids, my friend and neighbor who also has kids, they can go there after school and be watched by them.
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B
It is such a good point. I was at the gym talking to one of the trainers who last week his sister in law ran a marathon. He and his wife took her kids. This week they're going to a wedding. The sister in law is taking their kids. They both are comfortable with this. They're both, both saving significant money because of it. They're helping each other out and they know that they've got trusted people around. We know from our research, the research conducted by the alliance for Lifetime Income, that over half of baby boomers and Gen Xers are fearful of outliving their savings in retirement. The Number's up from 48% in 2024. How do you recommend that people go into retirement budget wise? How do you look at your budget? How do you set it? How do you adjust it so that we can know that our money is going to last what is likely to be a longer period of life?
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C
Well, one, I want you to get as close to debt free as possible, you know, because that, I mean, if you have a home, are you able to pay it off or do you want to downsize? Maybe you're selling your bigger house and it's enough money there to be able to buy something smaller because the kids have moved out. Something I watch my parents do. My dad has been retired for some time. He's 85, so for some time now. But I remember one of the things, like I said, he's a retired CFO and accountant. But one of the things that I've seen him do is every year he has like one of those legal pads. And so every single bill, he is checking to see, is there something because of my age. He found out that in where he lives in Westfield, New Jersey, he, or I guess it's just New Jersey, he could freeze her property tax by a certain age in New Jersey. So he applied and got it. And I thought, that's incredible. And so sometimes we don't even know that these programs exist. And so he would go line by line. And I was like, you got a lot of time on your hands. He's like, I don't have anything else to do. He's like, I take my walks, I play my tennis, I hang out with your uncles and your mom. And then so he's like, I'm just going line by line to say, hey, because sometimes there are things that, yes, when you're 65, there are programs in place, but I think for the property tax one, it was significantly older. You know, I think it was like you had to be 80 or 70 something. But I thought that that was genius because the key to me in retirement is how can I maintain the lowest overhead possible? You know, that's one of the things is like, can I get debt free before retirement? Meaning if you have to work that extra year, it might be worth it. I want you to also look at Social Security while we still have it. There are certain Ages where if you stay a little while longer, there might be a little bit more money there for you and just making your plan ahead of time, like, are we going to keep the house? My parents decided to keep the house. You know, they debated like, do we get a condo? Because it's a, I'm one of five girls, so it's a good sized house. And. But I knew they got great neighbors and so I helped them pay it off because my mom actually wanted to retire early. She was a nurse and she retired.
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B
When you talk about paying off the mortgage before, before you retire, there are people who say, why would you do that? The interest rate's only 3%. I've been locked in for a while. You're preaching to the choir with me because I definitely do not want a mortgage in retirement. But there, there are people who think I'm wrong on that. What's your argument?
- [15:50]
C
Well, only because, I mean, you're not choosing between terrible and great. It's. To me, the preference is I believe in retirement, the less I can output, the better because you don't have the input. And so I'm not necessarily earning, certainly, I'm sure, hopefully your investments are growing, but you're not earning like you did during your earning years. And so it's my intention to, if I can remove, okay, I don't have to pay a mortgage, I don't have a car note anymore, my student loan debt is paid off, all these things. And I, then I can look at my life and say, I can reasonably assume that this is how my, how much my life is going to cost me. Because then also too, I can go down the line and look at property tax and look at income and look at any other interest and look at, are there utility programs and lower my output even more because we're adults. So there's always something that comes up. And so I want to have a nice chunky gap between what I have to spend and what potentially my retirement account is yielding me. And so the bigger the gap, the more comfortable that I can feel. And so that's why. So I get it. If you have a 3% interest rate and you're not in any sort of rush, I just know that, like knowing that I don't have to because a mortgage is typically, you're looking at what, 1500, 3000, 4005, $6000 that you don't.
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B
Have your largest payment, right? No matter what the interest rate is, it's often your largest payment. The other thing that you said about your dad, that I Thought was notable as you said. He said, I take my walks, I play my tennis. Investing in your health, I think is making a financial bet as you retire.
- [17:21]
C
Absolutely. Since I was little, my dad was always really active. He said there are two things I can that I want to give you my daughters is financial education and the knowledge of how to take care of yourself. We all had to get good grades and pick a sport. You know, he's now whatever you do once you graduate high school and you go off to college, I can't force you in college. But everyone had to pick a sport because he wanted to be you, to be very comfortable with knowing how to physically take care of yourself. And I'm so grateful for that because as a result, now my sister Lisa still plays tennis. I walk and ride my bike every morning and I think about, you know, at 85, certainly he's slower, but he is still sound mind and spirit. My dad's probably one of the smartest people that I know. And so it allows you +2 you build community which is so critical for mental and physical health, honestly. But that starts now. It's not like, you know, you don't want to activate. I mean if you, if you activate it at 65, 70, better than nothing. But ideally you want to start that process now.
- [18:20]
B
Our research also showed that 41% of retirees are looking to spend less. I love the property tax hack. I have never heard of that. I will definitely look into that, particularly because I have a house in New Jersey. So that was a little me search you helped me with. What do you recommend for people who are trying to get a grip on their expenses? Are there tools that you specifically think that they should be using? Is there a methodology that you think works best?
- [18:50]
C
Well, when I think about getting a grip on your expenses, I mean you can just take it old school and pen to pad or Excel spreadsheet. You need to see what's actually happening. What are you paying? And not just the most obvious things like bills. Kind of like these invisible things that you're not really thinking about like grooming or entertainment or gift giving, whatever it is. Like what are you paying? If you're not sure, pull out your bank statements, pull out your credit card statements. I want you to get it down on paper or Excel spreadsheet. And then I want you to get reasonably clear about what is it costing you monthly per item. And then is it fully necessary? You know, I didn't realize until I like that banks do this now where they'll show me my reoccurring payments. And I'm like, I'm still paying for. I forgot about that. And now is the time it was when I really added it up. You know, $20 here, $30 here, $40 here a month was a few hundred dollars, more than a few hundred dollars, like almost a thousand plus dollars annually. And that could be put towards something else.
- [19:51]
B
You see it and you see a charge for 60 bucks, and you don't realize 60 bucks over and over, over and over. All of a sudden it is a few thousand dollars and it's significant. Let's talk a little bit about women. We are at what the alliance calls Peak 65. At a time in our history where there are more people turning 65 every single day than it ever before, 51% of the women in the peak 65 zone have less than $100,000 saved. And for single women, that number is 67%. With so many women entering retirement with limited assets, I find it not at all surprising that many feel anxious and unprotected. Does this finding, do these high numbers surprise you? Does it reflect what you see in your community firsthand?
- [20:44]
C
Yeah, it doesn't surprise me because so many women, they give so much. Like, I know of a couple where she worked and he worked as well. But they had a plan where, okay, you work and you work overtime, and we'll live off what you're making. And then I will, with the money that I make, I will stack our retirement. And then they got divorced. And so kids are raised, everyone's gone, everyone's looked after, and he has a retirement account that's stacked and she has nothing, you know, next to nothing. And so, yeah, so I'm actually not surprised. And it might look like that people have to work longer. I know no one wants to hear that. And certainly more strategic in how, you know, you work if you're going to work longer. Like, does this company offer really great health insurance? You know, I never thought in my 20s, I'm like, what's health insurance? I just need some water and some yogurt and, like, I'm good to go, you know, now it's like, I mean, I don't remember if you remember. So we all watched the Cosby Show. Do you remember Sandra's husband Elvin on the Cosby Show?
- [21:44]
B
Elvin. I remember Elvin because he was funny.
- [21:47]
C
Because he was kind of a chauvinist. And Claire Huxley used to get him all the way together. So I forget the actor's real name, but someone tried to shame him because he was working at Trader Joe's, like, in the last year or so. I don't know if you remember, this was kind of went viral.
- [22:02]
B
Jeffrey something, though.
- [22:03]
C
Yes. So he was literally this. Within a couple of years, he was at Trader Joe's and someone took a picture and said, oh, my gosh, look at this famous actor. He's, like, at Trader Joe's. I guess they wanted to shame him. And he didn't feel ashamed. He said, trader Joe's offers really great health insurance. I'm able to financially provide for my family while I'm in between jobs. And so that's why I work here. And then as a result, because people saw that a producer or director saw him and reached out and said, actually, you'd be perfect for this role. So what they thought was going to be shameful ended up being great. But I say that to say that it might look like that where he was like, where can I find a job that's going to pay? But also there is an insurance aspect to help offset the cost because I have children and a spouse. And so it might look like that. For women who retirement might not be. It's almost like when people tell me they're like a pure entrepreneur, that's all they do. But I feel like these days, entrepreneurs are like, I have my job, but I also have this kind of business. And so you might not have to. You might not have a pure retirement. You might have to supplement with another job. But I want you to be smart about it, to make sure it makes the most and gives you the most protection.
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B
Yeah. What advice do you specifically give to the huge number of women who are entering retirement solo, whether they are always single, always in forever, which is a growing number, or divorced or widowed.
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C
I say to make a plan, make a clear plan that you let the people who are part of that plan in on it. So do you have a will? What does it say? And let the folks know. Does it make sense for you to have a trust? A will is fine, but there's still probate involved, you know, but a trust will help you to kind of avoid that. But also, too, if you are not partnered, like now, like, you know, my husband passed away in 2021 from an aneurysm. Maybe I'll get married again, maybe I won't. And so I talk candidly with my sisters about what would that look like if I don't get married again? So we talk about, like, oh, maybe I'd live with my sister Carol. She's got two kids and so maybe that, you know, that that's the plan. And so, but I am, I'm 45 now. And so I'm thinking about that, like, okay, well, what does that look like? Not just the financial aspect, but who would I live with? Where would I like my parents, too. My dad is, like I said, 85. Every day is a blessing. 85. My mom is in her 70s. I can't say her full age before she gets mad at me. And so. Well, what does that look like? If there's a point where, you know, because he's still in great health and so is she. But that might not be the case. So what does that look like? So we're constantly having conversations.
- [24:37]
B
We're going to take a quick break. Stay with us. The holidays are pretty wonderful, but they can also bring financial chaos. Between travel, gifts, hosting, and everything in between, it's way too easy to overspend without even realizing it. That's why my producer Hayley has been loving Monarch. She's using it to track every gift, every dinner out, every flight. And seeing it all laid out in real time helped her pump the brakes before the credit card bill hit. If you want to keep your finances under control this holiday season, you need to be using Monarch, rated Wall Street Journal's best budgeting app of 2025. Monarch is the all in one personal finance tool that brings your entire financial life together in one clean interface on your laptop or your phone. And right now, just for our listeners, Monarch is offering 50% off your first year. Don't let financial opportunity slip through the cracks. Use code hermoney@monimal.com in your browser. For half off your first year. That's 50% off your first year. @monarch.com with code HERMONEY, Marshall's buyers are hustling hard to get amazing new gifts into stores right up to the last minute. Like a designer perfume for that friend who never RSVP'd wish list topping toys for her kids who came too. Belgian chocolates for the neighbor. A cozy scarf for your boss and a wool jacket for your husband that you definitely did not own. Almost forget Marshalls. We get the deals. You give the good stuff even at the last minute. Find a Marshalls near you. When you talk about being financially whole, is that having a plan? Is that what it takes to be financially whole? How do you define that?
- [26:27]
C
Yeah, I define that, Jean, as like these 10 components. So it's mastering where you are currently with your budget. That's the first one. Savings, debt, credit, earning. So that's the Financial, like I call it the foundational 5. And then there is investing for both retirement and wealth. There's insurance, there's your net worth, there's your financial team and estate planning. So I'll give an example. Estate planning for me, when I was 26 years old was. I put my parents down as a beneficiary in my bank account. Estate planning for me at 45, with businesses and things is a trust. But that's the thing I like about homeless is that it gets to meet you where you are financially. And you're always updating what a budget looks like for 25 is different for 45 is different for 85. And so that's what I'm wanting, is that people. This is kind of like a financial wholeness plan, is like your internal checklist of these 10 things. Does it currently make sense with where I am? Do I need to update, like, the insurance part? I was severely underinsured, and I remember my financial advisor was like, tiffany, you're insured. Like, you're 28 years old. But that's when I had bought it, right. You know, and so I was like. Because I hadn't thought about it. So I was like, you're right. So now I've got updated health insurance, but also to life insurance in a way that makes sense. An umbrella policy insurance for the business. Because in the beginning, when you start a business, it's the wild, wild West. You're like, business insurance. And so, yeah, it just looks like making sure those 10 things. You're constantly checking in and making sure that. Is there anything that needs to be tweaked here? And the key is you have to know these things before you need these things. And even if you find yourself stuck where you're like, I wish I would have done this sooner. Asking for help.
- [28:04]
B
Yeah, it's interesting that you say that, because the reaction that I get when I say, well, my financial advisor said this is. You have a financial advisor. Because, Tiffany, you're the budget Nista. You know what to do. Why do you need a financial advisor?
- [28:18]
C
The same reason why a doctor needs a doctor. And a hairdresser has a hairdresser. Because sometimes we are the worst patients. I've always heard the doctors make the worst patients. God bless Angeli, my financial advisor, because I give her such a hard way to go. Like, what about. She's like, tiffany, you told me your goals were this. I'm like, true. So having someone that the purpose of a financial advisor is not someone to tell you what to do is so you are like, here is the desired outcome. Here is where I currently am and my resources available and they help you to match, to map out the plan and to help adjust when needed. So a really good financial advisor will ask things like, what's happening in your life? So when my husband is like, for example, we were trying to have a kid, trying to have a baby, and so I would give her updates because if I got pregnant, then it's like, oh, then we need to adjust some of these things. Or I might like flippantly say something about like, oh, I think I want to start sending my parents more money. And she's like, oh, okay, well, how much? What does that look like? Or my, my stepdaughter, you know, I think that I want to purchase her a condo. She's in school now and I want her to be close. Oh, what does that look like? So a financial advisor, it can literally be somebody that you talk to once or twice a year. You're looking at 150 bucks an hour, give or take. So Maybe you spend $300 a year or like a financial plan that someone could create for you, that's about 1200 to $1500. And you do the plan yourself. Or like me, I pay annually, but like within monthly payments. And then it's, it's like I think right now Angelica, she does not just me, but my business as well. Like $15,000 for the year, which my business shoulders that cost. So there's this wide range. I think people think I don't have the money and I'm just like, no, if you've got $150 or $300, you can certainly sit down with someone, at least to start.
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B
Absolutely you can. I think that people don't understand that you can use a financial advisor, almost like a short term therapist. If you just want them to fix the problem, they could just be fix the problem. But if you want them to manage your life, they can do that as well. It's just gonna, it's just gonna cost a little bit more. When you look into the future, Tiffany, and you look to retirement, how do you think that women in particular are best off thinking about how to manage our assets in retirement? We go through such a long period of time where we're just accumulating and accumulating money and then we get to this point where, okay, maybe we'll stop working, work a little bit, but we certainly won't be earning a full income. We've got this pot of money that hopefully we've saved and Invested well, and now we have to make it last as long as we do. That's the hard part. What tools do you rely on for making that happen?
- [31:03]
C
So one. My number one tool is my financial advisor, because I got to tell her how much I want to have come in monthly when I'm no longer working. So I know how much I have to have put up to reasonably get there. So that's the number one tool for me. But I also ask myself, so what would this look like in retirement? I likely will spend more on travel, you know, but I won't have a mortgage. I would. I still. I don't have a car note. I'm leasing for the first time. Would I still lease? Does that make sense? And so these are questions I'm asking myself to get a financial picture of who Tiffany's going to be. I could technically retire now at 45 if I didn't do anything else new. I didn't acquire any new assets or liabilities, but I know that's not probably realistic. And maybe by 50, I will have enough of a gap to say, even if I did those things, Tiffany, I'll be fine. But these are the questions I'm currently asking myself because I'm about five years out from being able to say if I really, really didn't want to work anymore and I wanted to travel, like, even more than I do now, this is probably enough to be able to do. So I'm constantly asking myself, what is my output? How do I reduce it? What is my output? How do I reduce it? And can I keep some money coming in even though I'm not doing. Maybe I'm not, like, actively the budgetista anymore. It doesn't mean I don't have other investments that that could because I have multiple properties. So is that income coming in? Is there any other investments? So that's. Those are things that are on my mind now because I'm considering, like, retirement, at least from, like, active duty, if you will.
- [32:36]
B
Yeah, absolutely. Being the budget niece is a lot of work. We know. You keep us honest. We like to end these discussions, Tiffany, with asking our guests for their top three tips to people who are approaching retirement. For the other yous in the crowd who are looking at it and thinking, okay, maybe not tomorrow, but maybe within the next few years, what do you tell them?
- [32:58]
C
Tip number one, ask for help. Make that appointment with a certified financial planner. Ideally, that's the gold standards financial advisor. Tip number two, get control of your budget. Are there places that you're overspending? What do you think is going to shift when you're retired? Like where are you going to spend more, where you're going to spend less? And tip number three is get really clear about whatever programs might be activated because you're in retirement. Gene just learned that I think it's, I don't know if it's Westfield where they live, but I'm almost positive my dad said New Jersey that you can freeze your property taxes by a certain age. And so what other things are available for you in retirement that you're like, oh, that can actually help you to manage that output and reduce it. So those are my three tips.
- [33:41]
B
Amazing. Tiffany's book is called Get Good with Money. It's fantastic. Where else can we find you?
- [33:49]
C
You can find me everywhere. I am the budget Nista on all the things, all the socials. Thebudgetnista.com yeah, I'm just a budget Nista everywhere.
- [33:57]
B
Find her everywhere. And find us@protectedincome.org if you're looking for a great retirement newsletter, hit up protectedincome.org subscribe. Thank you so much Tiffany. Thanks to see you. You too. If you love today's episode, please take a moment to leave us a five star review on Apple Podcast. Your feedback means the world to me. If listening to this episode has you thinking, all right, I am ready to get serious about growing my money, but I still don't feel 100% confident about investing. I want to personally invite you to check out our Investing Fix program. It's a live weekly investing club designed for women by women where we break down what's happening in the markets. Explain, explain how different investment works and give you all the tools that you need to build your own confident long term strategy. And now is a great time to start. While the markets are still showing strength and interest rates are shifting, go to investingfix.com that's Fix with 2 x's and use code ANNUAL25 to get 25 off your yearly membership. I'd love to to see you there. Her money is produced by Haley Pascalides and our music is provided by Video Helper. Thanks so much for listening and we'll talk soon.