Hidden Brain – "It's Not My Fault!" (Sep 15, 2025)
Host: Shankar Vedantam
Guest: Emily Falk, Psychologist & Neuroscientist, University of Pennsylvania
Overview: The Nature of Defensiveness
This episode of Hidden Brain explores why humans are often quick to become defensive in the face of feedback, criticism, or suggestions for improvement—despite the widespread desire for growth and self-betterment. Shankar Vedantam, joined by psychologist Emily Falk, delves into the neuroscience of defensiveness, why our sense of self feels under threat during feedback, and practical strategies for becoming more receptive to change.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. The Universal Experience of Defensiveness
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Opening Anecdote: Shankar sets the stage with a scenario everyone recognizes—when offered advice, we instinctively defend ourselves rather than listen.
“Like generals fighting a war, they try to protect every square inch of the person they are instead of embracing the person they might become.” – Shankar (00:16)
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Emily’s Story with Her Grandmother:
Emily recalls a hectic evening balancing family and work when her grandmother Bev visits. Bev kindly notes, “We aren’t really spending time together.”- Emily’s immediate reaction: defensiveness—“No, you’re wrong... of course we’re spending time together.” (07:23–07:57)
2. Defensive Response: The Neuroscience
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Self & Value Systems in the Brain:
Defensiveness is tied to how the brain conflates “me” with “good.” When feedback suggests we’re not “good,” it feels like a threat to self.“Our brain has these systems that help us think about what’s good and bad, our value system and brain systems that help us think about what’s me and not me ... those kinds of decisions are conflated with one another.” – Emily (09:38)
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The need to preserve a positive self-image leads to discounting feedback, making genuine growth difficult.
3. Strategies to Lower Defensiveness
A. Making the Self Smaller: Psychological Distance & Mindfulness
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Self-Distancing Study (13:20):
- College students told to take the perspective of a friend or observe their drinking habits mindfully drank less.
“Both of those ... tools for creating psychological distance ... resulted in people drinking less.” – Emily (13:20)
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Peripheral Vs. Core Identity Traits (15:13):
- We are more open to feedback about traits that are less central to our identity (e.g., being “well-spoken”) than core traits (e.g., “kindness”).
- Example: Feedback about being unfriendly triggers more resistance than feedback about being less articulate.
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Role of Meditation (20:35):
- Meditation can reduce defensiveness by loosening rigid attachment to self-concept.
“When you look at the brains of people who have practiced meditation for a long time, their self relevant systems behave differently.” – Emily (20:35)
B. Making the Self Bigger: Affirmation & Meaning
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Values Affirmation (24:40):
- Reflecting on central personal values helps buffer the ego from perceived slights/threats in feedback.
“When we reflect on those core values, it can allow us to zoom out... just because we made a mistake doesn’t have to mean we're a bad person...” – Emily (24:40)
- Associated with greater openness to health coaching and positive behavior change.
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Bi-directional Feedback at Work (27:26):
- Emily describes instituting two-way feedback sessions, starting with what’s going well then moving to constructive criticism.
- Adjusting response to feedback by focusing on broader goals rather than feeling personally attacked.
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Sense of Purpose and Meaning (32:22):
- Higher sense of purpose increases openness to feedback and supports healthy behaviors.
- Self-transcendent values (e.g., concern for others, spirituality) are especially effective in buffering threats to self-image and reducing defensive reactions.
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Transformative Experiences (35:33):
- Events that expand our sense of connection to others—like festivals, meditation, or rituals—can reduce self-focus and lessen defensiveness.
4. Changing the Nature of the Message
The Power of Storytelling (39:57)
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Stories Circumvent Defensiveness:
- People are more receptive to feedback when it’s nested in a narrative versus presented as didactic facts.
- Emily’s parenting example: Stories about fictional characters prompt children to reason wisely about behaviors they’d resist addressing directly.
“When I would ask them, would you like to hear a story?... we’d get a completely different reaction.” – Emily (39:57)
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Neuroscientific Evidence:
- Stories engage different brain circuits; even with some reasoning regions shut off, people can still draw inferences from stories (43:00).
Perspective-Taking (45:45)
- Taking the perspective of others, or giving advice to others, can unlock wiser self-reflection.
“[When] people are put in the position of... taking the perspective of a distanced other person... that makes it easier for us to actually think about the situation in a more wise way ourselves.” – Emily (45:59)
Real-Life Application: Personal Example (48:13)
- Emily shares a recent episode of feeling defensive when her partner expressed frustration about her phone use during their evening time together.
- Initial reaction: Justifying behavior.
- Over time: Reflection, environmental changes (leaving phone elsewhere), enlisting a friend’s accountability.
“There are all kinds of good reasons why I’m on my phone, right? ... Of course he was right.” – Emily (48:24)
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
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On Feedback & Identity:
“We cling to the idea that we’re doing things right. It’s extremely common.” – Emily (11:31)
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Humor and Relatability:
“My last comment appeared to be inviting feedback. Do not be fooled.”—Shankar, quoting a New Yorker cartoon (11:44)
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On Being Open to Critique:
“There is useful information in the feedback that other people are trying to give us, and when we can see that as evidence that they care... that can be more productive than this automatic reaction...” – Emily (18:06)
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On Storytelling as a Tool for Change:
“Stories seem to get around our defensiveness. We see this in all kinds of situations...” – Emily (39:57)
Key Timestamps
| Time | Segment | |----------|-------------------------------------------------------------------| | 00:02 | Shankar introduces defensiveness theme | | 04:29 | Emily’s story with her grandmother | | 07:23 | Emily’s emotional reaction: defensiveness | | 09:29 | Shankar asks about the “me = good” conflation | | 13:20 | Study: Self-distancing reduces defensiveness, unhealthy behavior | | 15:13 | Core vs. peripheral traits & accepting feedback | | 20:35 | Role of meditation in reducing defensiveness | | 24:40 | Values affirmation and its impact | | 27:26 | Emily’s work example: two-way feedback | | 32:22 | Purpose, meaning, and openness to change | | 35:33 | Transformative experiences (Burning Man, psychedelics, rituals) | | 39:57 | Storytelling’s power to bypass defensiveness | | 45:45 | Perspective-taking for better self-advice | | 48:13 | Emily’s phone-with-partner anecdote and self-improvement efforts |
Practical Takeaways
- Expect Immediate Defensiveness: It's a universal, protective impulse rooted in identity and brain circuitry—awareness is the first step in interrupting the pattern.
- Create Psychological Distance: View feedback from a neutral or other’s perspective; mindfulness and perspective-taking can help.
- Affirm Your Values: Center yourself in core, positive values before bracing for feedback—this buffers the ego and helps keep communication open.
- Use Stories: Both in giving difficult feedback and in self-reflection, stories help sidestep the “attack mode” reflex.
- Expand Your Self-Concept: Embrace multifaceted identities and a sense of connection beyond yourself (community, shared goals).
- Shift From Identity to Problem-Solving: Frame criticism around actions and logistics, not personal worth.
Conclusion
This episode offers compelling, research-backed methods for both receiving and delivering feedback in ways that reduce defensiveness and promote genuine, sustained change. Emily Falk’s neuroscience perspective, real-life anecdotes, and practical strategies provide listeners with tools to break free from self-defeating patterns and unlock more productive, open relationships—with others and with themselves.