Hidden Brain: "Murder Mystery"

Host: Shankar Vedantam

Guest: Colton Scrivener, Psychologist, Arizona State University and Aarhus University

Date: December 1, 2025

Episode Overview

This episode of Hidden Brain, hosted by Shankar Vedantam, explores a paradox: Although we often claim to seek positive, uplifting stories in media, violent, frightening, and gory tales—whether horror movies, true crime podcasts, or disaster films—remain endlessly popular. Vedantam and guest Colton Scrivener, a researcher specializing in morbid curiosity, examine why humans are attracted to dark narratives, what psychological functions they serve, and whether consuming them says anything negative about our character.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Why Are We Drawn to Violent and Dark Stories?

• Shankar opens with a well-known quote attributed to Lao Tzu about how our character and destiny are shaped by what we consume, questioning why, then, so much of our media diet is dark (00:00).
• Key Question: If we want to be good people, why do we crave stories that feature the worst in humanity?

Childhood Fascination with Scary Scenes

• Scrivener shares how, even as a child, he remembered movies like Indiana Jones not by plot but by their most violent and terrifying scenes (04:41):
  • “I remembered them by kind of the violent scenes or scary scenes that were in the films... like the one where he pulls his heart out of his chest and it’s still beating.” – Colton Scrivener (05:20)

Real-Life Fear and Consumption of Scary Media

• After a real-life tragedy, people are more likely to seek out scary entertainment:
  • 1970s study at University of Wisconsin: Following a campus murder, students chose a violent film ("In Cold Blood") over a rom-com as a post-study reward, especially those from the same dorm as the victim (06:27–07:20).
• Scrivener likens this to a "heat map," where proximity to trauma increased morbid curiosity (07:20).

The Allure of "Real" Violence in Entertainment

• Early 1990s: The more violent version of "Mortal Kombat" for Sega Genesis outsold Nintendo’s sanitized version (07:51–10:08).
  • "The Sega Genesis version...outsold the Nintendo version of the game by several factors." – Colton Scrivener (09:49)

Pandemic and Morbid Media Consumption

• During COVID-19, the film "Contagion" (2011) spiked in popularity as viewers sought out pandemic-themed fiction (11:01–12:43).
  • "The most popular that [Contagion] had been was in March of 2020, despite having come out nine years earlier..." – Colton Scrivener (12:20)
• Horror movies also saw dramatically increased viewership in 2020–21 (13:27).

Evolutionary Roots: Curiosity About Threats

• Vedantam introduces Darwin’s zoo experiment: Monkeys repeatedly inspected a snake in a bag, even though it frightened them, a behavior known as predator inspection (17:12–18:36).
  • "Monkey after monkey...could not resist taking a momentary peep into the upright bag and the dreadful object lying quietly at the bottom.” – Charles Darwin, quoted by Vedantam (18:36)
• Scrivener explains this as evolutionarily adaptive—the urge to learn about threats to better avoid them (20:04).

"Morbid Curiosity" Defined

• Scrivener clarifies: Morbid curiosity is not pathological, but rather "an interest in or a curiosity about threats" (21:26).
• This urge drives us not just to learn about danger from a safe distance but also to simulate and rehearse responses through fiction.

Morbid Curiosity as Preparation

• Consuming frightening stories enables us to safely learn about threats and responses, unlike animals, humans can "imagine possible futures" without real danger (25:19–26:55).

Storytelling's Power Over Textbooks

• Watching stories (not just reading dry facts) allows us to immerse ourselves and rehearse first-person experience, which is evolutionarily compelling and memorable (27:10–28:26).

Psychological Benefits of Horror & Dark Tales

Building Resilience

• Horror fans showed more psychological resilience during COVID-19—experiencing less anxiety, depression, and insomnia (28:36–30:27).
  • "People who were horror fans uniquely were more resilient to the stresses of the pandemic." – Colton Scrivener (28:50)
• Morbidly curious people were more optimistic and felt better able to persevere in hard times.

Emotional Regulation Through Scary Entertainment

• Horror may disrupt cycles of generalized anxiety by focusing attention on a symbolic, controllable threat, which is more easily resolved and soothed (30:51–34:42).
  • "Horror kind of is like fighting fire with fire because you’re giving your mind something threatening to latch onto...And then after 90 minutes, the movie ends, the threat goes away." – Colton Scrivener (33:44)

Shared Experience: Social Dimension

• Scary stories and haunted attractions are typically social events, often used to test or bolster bonds—e.g., couples going to horror movies together, friends supporting each other through haunted houses (34:42–37:57).
  • "You might actually be learning something about the people around you, because you’re seeing how they respond in these playful simulations of fear." – Colton Scrivener (35:44)
• The "snuggle theory" posits that scary movies offer a safe context to perform expected gender or partner roles.

Stereotypes About Horror Fans

• Major film critics (Roger Ebert, Gene Siskel) voiced concerns that fans of violent horror films are morally questionable or even dangerous (42:23–44:27).
  • "People who enjoy it are obviously depraved and they hate women." – Gene Siskel, quoted by Scrivener (42:52)
• Scrivener’s research found that people assume horror fans are unkind and unempathetic, but actual tests show horror fans are as empathetic as others, or even more so (44:52–48:50).

Notable Anecdotes

• In haunted houses, pleader characters (actors playing victims) reliably elicit empathetic responses from visitors—even though everyone knows it’s pretend (49:40–51:53).
• Many horror-themed restaurants and coffee shops are vegan or vegetarian, suggesting their clientele is concerned about animal welfare and contradicting the "depraved" stereotype (51:53–53:45).

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the paradox of violent entertainment:

  • "We believe that [uplifting media] will make us wiser, kinder, better people...but you don’t see many high minded plots and altruistic characters." – Shankar Vedantam (00:00)

• On horror’s psychological benefit:

  • "Watching scary movies or reading scary books seems to actually have an effect on how resilient you are to real dangers in the world." – Colton Scrivener (28:36)

• On the evolutionary logic behind curiosity about threats:

  • "If a zebra had the ability to write a book or create a documentary or a fiction film, it would almost certainly create many of those about lions." – Colton Scrivener (25:19)

• On empathy among horror fans:

  • "There was no relationship between how much of a horror fan you were and how empathetic you were. Except...those who liked paranormal horror movies scored a bit higher in cognitive empathy." – Colton Scrivener (47:57)

• Roger Ebert’s scathing review:

  • "An immoral and reprehensible piece of trash that sold more tickets on its opening weekend than any other movie so far in 1984. That is a very, very depressing commentary." – Roger Ebert (42:23)

Timestamps for Important Segments

• Opening Paradox: Good People, Violent Stories (00:00–02:25)
• Childhood Fascination with Scary Scenes (04:27–05:57)
• After Tragedy: Real-Life Violence and Media Choices (05:57–07:36)
• Mortal Kombat and the Success of Gore (07:36–10:25)
• Contagion and COVID-19: Morbid Curiosity in Action (11:01–12:56)
• Why We’re Drawn to Threats: Monkeys and Predator Inspection (17:12–21:04)
• Defining Morbid Curiosity (21:04–22:29)
• Horror and Psychological Resilience (28:26–34:42)
• Social Bonding Through Fright (34:42–38:55)
• Stereotypes and Testing Empathy in Horror Fans (42:23–48:50)
• Empathy in Haunted Houses and Horror-Themed Restaurants (49:40–53:45)

Conclusion

Despite longstanding assumptions, our interest in dark stories is not a sign of moral failing—nor are horror aficionados unkind or indifferent people. Instead, our "morbid curiosity" is rooted in an adaptive urge to learn about threats, rehearse for possible dangers, and practice emotional regulation. Scary media enables us to safely experience, navigate, and ultimately soothe our anxieties, often in the company of others, and—surprisingly—may actually build resilience and empathy.

For further exploration of why and how to enjoy the chills, the episode points listeners to a companion piece on Hidden Brain Plus.