Hidden Brain: The Conversations that Bring Us Closer
Episode Release Date: February 17, 2025
Host: Shankar Vedantam
Guest: Alison Wood Brooks, Behavioral Scientist at Harvard Business School
Introduction
In the February 17, 2025 episode of Hidden Brain, host Shankar Vedantam delves into the intricate world of difficult conversations. Joining him is Alison Wood Brooks, a behavioral scientist from Harvard Business School, who shares her expertise on navigating challenging dialogues that often shape our relationships and personal growth. This episode, titled "The Conversations that Bring Us Closer," unpacks why certain conversations make us uneasy and offers psychological strategies to handle them effectively.
Setting the Stage with Seinfeld
The episode opens with a reference to a classic Seinfeld episode, illustrating the discomfort and avoidance often surrounding difficult conversations. George Costanza's reluctance to confront a woman who mistreated him serves as a comedic but poignant example of how people often evade necessary confrontations. Meanwhile, Jerry Seinfeld faces a similar situation where a past date confronts him about his insensitive remarks, highlighting the universal struggle to address grievances openly.
Notable Quote:
“In that same scene, another woman comes up to Jerry Seinfeld... ‘You were never going to call me. You thought you could waltz for the rest of your life and never bump into me. But you were wrong, Jerry. You were wrong.’”
—Shankar Vedantam [00:00-01:03]
Understanding the Avoidance of Difficult Conversations
Alison Wood Brooks emphasizes that avoidance is a prevalent response to difficult conversations. Drawing from personal experience, she identifies as an "avoider," illustrating how common this behavior is. Brooks recounts childhood memories of her grandfather evading conflict, underscoring the deeply ingrained nature of avoiding challenging dialogues.
Notable Quote:
“Avoidance is so common. It's, and it's common in my life, too. I'm an avoider.”
—Alison Wood Brooks [03:07-03:14]
Personal Stories: Classroom Challenges
Brooks shares a transformative experience from her teaching career. During a negotiation class, she used a prop—a Super Bowl ring—to illustrate a negotiation case about Tom Brady. However, a student confronted her, pointing out that her comment was heteronormative and exclusionary. This confrontation forced Brooks to reconcile her intentions with the student's perception, highlighting the complexities of inclusive communication.
Notable Quote:
“He said, ‘It felt like you were only talking to the people who are heterosexual... What about all the male students who wanted to enjoy the view?’”
—Alison Wood Brooks [07:16-07:35]
Emotional Dynamics in Difficult Conversations
The episode explores the emotional turmoil that accompanies challenging dialogues. Brooks introduces the "wheel of feelings," a model illustrating high to low arousal and negative to positive emotions. She describes her own physiological and emotional responses during the student confrontation, demonstrating the universal nature of anxiety and defensiveness in such moments.
Notable Quote:
“There's a high arousal. Negative feelings... Your heart starts to race, you're feeling bad.”
—Alison Wood Brooks [13:03-13:20]
Techniques for Effective Conversations
Brooks advocates for shifting the focus from persuasion to learning in difficult conversations. Instead of trying to convince the other person of one's viewpoint, she suggests prioritizing understanding and empathizing with the other party's perspective. This approach fosters a more productive and harmonious dialogue.
Notable Quote:
“The more effective way to react in those moments is to focus on learning, which is not intuitive.”
—Alison Wood Brooks [17:32-17:45]
Conversational Receptiveness
Drawing on Julia Minson's research, Brooks introduces the concept of conversational receptiveness—openness to opposing viewpoints. She breaks it down into key elements:
- Acknowledgment: Actively listening and repeating back what the other person has said to show understanding.
- Affirmation: Adding a positive note to the acknowledgment, such as appreciating the other person's perspective.
These steps help maintain a respectful and engaging conversation, even amidst disagreements.
Notable Quote:
“Acknowledgment is a very simple thing. It's almost like just repeating back what you've heard from someone.”
—Alison Wood Brooks [21:25-21:38]
Finding Common Ground
Brooks highlights the human tendency to focus on disagreements, often overlooking the vast commonalities that bind individuals together. By recognizing shared interests and values, conversations can remain constructive and less confrontational.
Notable Quote:
“We almost completely forget about the 99% of other things that we have in common and agree about.”
—Alison Wood Brooks [23:18-23:33]
Reframing Negative Emotions
Instead of attempting to eliminate negative emotions like anxiety, Brooks suggests reframing them positively. By changing the interpretation of such emotions—from anxiety to excitement, for instance—individuals can better manage their responses during difficult conversations.
Notable Quote:
“It's not to change the emotion itself, but to shift your interpretation of the emotion.”
—Alison Wood Brooks [30:33-30:45]
The Power of Apologies
Apologies emerge as a powerful tool in bridging conversational gaps. Brooks recounts her own experience of apologizing to a house manager during her undergraduate years, which transformed a longstanding antagonistic relationship into a cooperative and friendly one. She underscores that apologies foster vulnerability and humility, leading to deeper mutual respect and understanding.
Notable Quote:
“Apologizing requires that you make yourself vulnerable to the other person. It feels like it requires you to humble yourself.”
—Alison Wood Brooks [43:20-43:57]
Real-life Applications and Impact
Brooks shares a heartfelt story about her son Kevin, who, as a child, apologized for a toddler tantrum that resulted in her broken nose. This moment of genuine remorse and empathy reflects the profound impact of teaching and practicing effective conversational skills from a young age.
Notable Quote:
“He looked at me right in the eyes and he said, ‘Mommy, I'm so sorry that I did that to you.’”
—Alison Wood Brooks [45:30-46:12]
Conclusion
The episode concludes by reinforcing the significance of mastering difficult conversations. Brooks' insights offer listeners practical strategies to enhance their interpersonal communications, ultimately fostering stronger and more meaningful relationships.
Final Quote:
“Apologies... they can do so much good.”
—Alison Wood Brooks [43:50-43:57]
Hidden Brain continues to explore the depths of human behavior and communication, providing listeners with valuable tools to navigate the complexities of everyday interactions. Whether it's addressing personal grievances, professional disagreements, or fostering inclusive environments, the insights shared in this episode serve as a guide to more empathetic and effective conversations.