wavePod

You 2.0: The Practice of Patience - Hidden Brain | Wave AI Podcast Notes

You 2.0: The Practice of Patience

Mon Jan 19 2026

Patience can sometimes feel like a lost art, particularly in a culture that prizes competition and the idea of "failing fast." But psychologist Sarah Schnitker says patience is a vital skill for success in both our personal and professional lives. We talk with Sarah about the difference between patience and passivity, and how we can train ourselves to be more patient. Then, in our latest installment of "Your Questions Answered," Jennifer Tosti-Kharas responds to listeners' questions about how to find a calling, and how to set one aside if it's no longer serving you well.

Summary

Podcast Summary – Hidden Brain

Episode: You 2.0: The Practice of Patience

Host: Shankar Vedantam
Guest: Dr. Sarah Schnitker, Baylor University
Date: January 19, 2026

Overview

This episode explores the complex psychology of patience—when it serves us, when it undermines us, and how we can cultivate it in healthy, productive ways. Host Shankar Vedantam and psychologist Sarah Schnitker discuss why patience is such a difficult skill to master, how cultural messages influence our sense of urgency, and practical strategies for building patience in relationships, at work, and within ourselves. The episode is rich with stories from sports, politics, business, and listeners’ lives, illustrating how our hunger for quick results often backfires, and the surprising rewards of waiting well.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Parable of Bamboo: Foundations of Patience

[00:02–06:00]
Shankar introduces the Chinese parable of nurturing a bamboo plant for years without visible growth—only to see explosive progress after five years. This poses the episode’s main question:

“How can you tell the difference between growing roots underground and when you're simply watering and nurturing a dead plot of land?” (A, 04:50)
The show will examine when persistence is wise, when impatience is needed, and techniques for growing your capacity to wait.

Case Studies in Impatience and Its Costs

Sports: RG3 and the Danger of Rushing Recovery

[06:00–11:28]
Story of Robert Griffin III (RG3) highlights the cultural drive to push through adversity, ignoring the body’s need for healing:

“There was just this immense pressure for RG3 to move back in. He was the superstar. … We love a recovery story … who can instantly recover.” (Sarah, 07:03)

RG3’s premature return after injury led to further damage and a promising career derailed. He later publicly regretted his impatience:

“There's a difference between doing something because you love it and doing the smart thing.” (RG3, 11:12)

Politics: Howard Dean and the 'Dean Scream'

[11:28–15:23] Howard Dean’s reaction to a disappointing Iowa caucus result famously backfired. The urge to quickly recover momentum led to a public outburst; a moment of patience may have preserved his campaign:

“Sometimes when you have a loss or defeat, it's actually okay to take a few moments and lick your wounds…” (Sarah, 14:36)

Business: Samsung’s Rush and the Burning Phones

[15:23–18:06] Samsung’s hasty release of the Galaxy Note 7 to beat Apple resulted in battery fires, a global recall, and damage to its reputation:

“Instead of capturing this new market by releasing before Apple, they actually were losing customers and losing profits because of that rush.” (Sarah, 17:26)

The Psychology of Patience

Our Aversion to Uncertainty

[20:05–23:29] Sarah explains that our brains crave certainty and struggle with waiting because, evolutionarily, uncertainty often equaled threat:

“Human beings want to have answers. We want to have a predictable world… we really struggle in situations like the global pandemic when we don’t know what’s going on.” (Sarah, 21:12)

The Role of Boredom

[25:41–26:55] Boredom amplifies impatience, as seen in both children (“Are we there yet?”) and adults.

Lessons from Simone Biles and Setting Healthy Limits

[26:55–29:57] Simone Biles prioritized her mental health over public and media pressure to compete, returning stronger. Her story counters the cultural narrative that glorifies pushing through at all costs:

“What we actually see is that Simone Biles took all the time she needed and comes back to Paris in 2024 and absolutely killed it at the next Olympics.” (Sarah, 28:38)

Patience vs. Complacency: MLK and the Urgency of Now

[29:57–33:49] Reverend Martin Luther King Jr. advocated against “the tranquilizing drug of gradualism.” Schnitker stresses:

“Virtuous patience, good patience, is always a virtue. But there is a vice of what might be called too much patience.” (Sarah, 30:45)

The sweet spot: balancing patience with courage.

Types of Patience and How to Practice Them

1. Interpersonal Patience

[36:24–37:57] Patience with friends, spouses, colleagues, and even strangers strengthens relationships by allowing them to evolve beyond initial friction.

2. Patience with Hardship

[37:57–41:30] Sarah shares her personal struggle with a chronic illness as an example of learning to pace oneself, listen to physical and mental health needs, and avoid the “RG3 mistake” of plowing through to one’s own detriment.

3. Patience with Daily Hassles

[41:30–42:45] Practicing patience in small, daily annoyances (traffic, lines) is good training for bigger challenges.

Practical Techniques for Building Patience

Stop and Reflect

[42:45–44:18] Instead of suppressing impatience, acknowledge and observe it:

“People who are patient don’t actually try to suppress their feelings. Instead, they acknowledge them… that actually removes some of the power of that feeling.” (Sarah, 43:09)

Reappraisal

[44:18–45:19] Think about waiting or setbacks differently. Find a benefit or see from another’s perspective:

"Why is this 3-year-old screaming...? Oh, because they don’t have the words or capacities to tell me what they want." (Sarah, 44:25)

Finding Flow

[45:19–46:55] Immersing oneself in engaging activities (writing, games, cooking) helps pass time and builds patience.

Connect to Higher Purpose

[47:24–51:53] Purpose makes patience easier: whether in faith (Ramadan fasting), running a marathon for charity, or working for a cause, meaningful reasons help sustain patience through hardship:

“When you have that big why, it becomes much easier to practice the how.” (Sarah, 47:43)

Costs of Impatience

[51:53–53:17] Impatience leads to irritability, health problems, loneliness, and depression. Patience, by contrast, improves well-being.

Being Patient with Ourselves

[53:17–55:28] Patience isn’t just for others. Growth in character and skill is a long process. Schnitker urges compassion for our own slow progress:

“You have to have a lot of patience to become more patient.” (Sarah, 54:54)

Notable Quotes

“How can you tell the difference between growing roots underground and when you're simply watering and nurturing a dead plot of land?”
(A, 04:50)
"There's a difference between doing something because you love it and doing the smart thing."
(RG3, as quoted by Sarah, 11:12)
"Virtuous patience, good patience, is always a virtue. But there is a vice of what might be called too much patience."
(Sarah, 30:45)
"We have to find that real sweet spot... between recklessness and passivity."
(Sarah, 31:10)
"The daily hassles might be a nice lower stakes game to practice patience so that you're ready when you have that illness come up."
(Sarah, 41:48)
"When you have that big why, it becomes much easier to practice the how."
(Sarah, 47:43)
“You have to have a lot of patience to become more patient.”
(Sarah, 54:54; referencing Stanisław Jerzy Lec)

Timestamps for Major Segments

Intro and Main Question: 00:02–06:00
RG3 – The Costs of Rushing: 06:00–11:28
Howard Dean & Political Impatience: 11:28–15:23
Samsung & the Fail Fast Mentality: 15:23–18:06
Urgency, Uncertainty, and Pandemic Response: 20:05–23:29
Boredom and Patience: 25:41–26:55
Simone Biles and Listening to Yourself: 26:55–29:57
MLK: When Patience Isn’t a Virtue: 29:57–33:49
Balancing Patience with Courage: 32:08–33:49
Interpersonal Patience: 36:24–37:57
Patience with Hardship (Sarah’s Illness): 37:57–41:30
Practice in Daily Hassles: 41:30–42:45
Building Patience—Practical Tips: 42:45–51:53
Impatience and Its Costs: 51:53–53:17
Patience with Ourselves: 53:17–55:28

Memorable Moments

Sarah recounting her own basketball struggles as a child, showing how fear of uncertainty shut down her patience and growth. [23:47]
RG3 voicing regret about risking his health for short-term heroics, while Sarah contrasts it to Simone Biles’s patient, wise choice to step back. [11:03–11:12, 28:38]
Simone Biles’s comeback as an example of patient healing and resilience. [28:38]
MLK’s speech about the “fierce urgency of now”—that patience can be a vice when used as an excuse for inaction. [30:18–30:42]
Sarah’s pragmatic advice to observe your feelings of impatience, rather than fight them, as the starting point for change. [43:09]

Conclusion

Patience is a powerful but misunderstood skill. It's not passive endurance or suppression of frustration, but an active, courageous engagement with uncertainty, setbacks, and slow progress. As Dr. Schnitker illustrates, the healthiest patience is always anchored in purpose, self-awareness, and compassion—toward others and ourselves. The path to patience is long and full of setbacks, but the rewards are deep: from better health and relationships to a fuller realization of our goals and potential.

For further engagement:
The episode invites listeners to share their own stories of patience—moments of both success and failure—for future episodes.

Loading summary...

Transcript

A (0:02)

Hidden Brain visited 16 cities with our Perceptions Tour in 2025, and we're excited to visit even more communities across the US this year. We'll have more announcements about tour stops in the months to come. For now, I want to make sure you know about two live shows that are coming up soon. I'll be in Philadelphia at the Miller Theater on March 21 and at the Town hall in New York city on on March 25th. For tickets to either show, go to hiddenbrain.org tour. That's hiddenbrain.org tour. I hope to see you there. Okay, here's today's show. This is Hidden Brain. I'm Shankar Vedantam. In a famous Chinese parable, a man frustrated with all of his failures exiles himself to the woods. There he meets a hermit with whom he shares his frustrations. Give me one good reason not to quit, the man tells the hermit. The hermit points to a tall patch of foliage. You see this bamboo? He asks. I nurtured it for a year and it did not grow as much as an inch. But the hermit did not give up. The second year, he waters and nurtures the plot. Again nothing. A third year goes by. Again nothing. Year four the same. By the fifth year, the hermit says, a tiny sprout emerged from the earth, and within six months the tree grew a hundred feet tall. During all those years, when it appeared that nothing was happening, the bamboo was growing underground, hidden from view. It had been rapidly spreading roots all the time you had been struggling, the hermit told the man. You were growing strong roots. In the parable, the man learns his lesson and the value of persistence. He goes back to his life and continues his pursuits. It's beautiful, isn't it, this idea that we think we're getting nowhere, but our efforts might be paying off in ways we cannot see. Yet it also raises an uncomfortable problem. How can you tell the difference between growing roots underground and when you're simply watering and nurturing a dead plot of land? Today on the show, we explore the conundrum of patience when it makes sense to persist, even when you can't see what's happening below the surface, and when we should be impatient. Also, practical ways we can learn to be more patient, even in trying circumstances. Learning to Wait this week on Hidden Brain. Support for Hidden Brain comes from Progressive, where drivers who save by switching save nearly $750 on average. Plus auto customers qualify for an average of 7 discounts. Quote now@progressive.com to see if you could save Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates national average 12 month savings of $744 by new customers surveyed who saved with Progressive between June 2022 and May 2023. Potential savings will vary. Discounts not available in all states and situations. Support for Hidden Brain comes from Dell Meet the all new Dell XPS laptop. With its ultra thin design and all day battery life, the Infinity Edge display immerses you in vibrant colors and crystal clear detail whether you're working or streaming. Powered by Series 3 Intel Core Ultra processors, the XPS is made for editing photos, mixing tracks and designing masterpieces. Check out the all new dell xps@dell.com. Support for Hidden brain comes from homes.com homes.com knows that when it comes to home shopping, it's never just about the house or condo. It's about the home. And what makes a home is more than just the house or property, it's the location and neighborhood. If you have kids, it's also schools, nearby, parks and transportation options. That's why homes.com goes above and beyond to bring home shoppers the in depth information they need to find the right home. Each listing features comprehensive information about the neighborhood, complete with a video guide. They also have details about local schools with test scores, state rankings and student to teacher ratio. They even have an agent directory with the sales history of each agent. So when it comes to finding a home, not just a house, this is everything you need to know all in1place.homes.com We've done your homework. From a young age, we are taught to be patient, sit still, wait quietly, hold off eating one marshmallow in order to enjoy two later on when we become adults with more power over how many marshmallows we can have. Patience often falls by the wayside. At Baylor University, psychologist Sarah Schnitker studies the science of patients. She says that being patient may be a lost skill for many of us, but it's also one that's frequently misunderstood. Sarah Schnitker, welcome to Hidden Brain.

A (58:09)

This is Hidden Brain. I'm Shankar Vedantam. In his final semester in college, a young Harrison Ford took an acting class. A self described loner, he used acting to get over his shyness. In the process, he became obsessed with learning how to tell a story. Harrison Ford pursued acting as a career and secured a weekly contract with a Hollywood studio as a small time TV actor. It was a decent start, but he craved more. He wanted to be a star. At the same time, the struggling actor had a wife and two young sons. He had purchased a run down home in the Hollywood Hills and spent his free time teaching himself to fix it up. Eventually, to pay the bills, he decided to quit his TV contract and become a full time carpenter. But Harrison Ford never quite gave up the dream of landing a major film role. One day he ran into an old acquaintance as he was working on a carpentry project for the director Francis Ford Coppola. The acquaintance, a young director named George Lucas. The director asked the wannabe movie star to read lines with actors auditioning for his new film. It was a little project called Star Wars. The rest, as they say, is history. Harrison Ford landed a starring role in one of the most significant movie franchises of the 20th century. He hasn't done many carpentry gig since. Since then, we hear success stories like this all the time. The actress waiting tables, the musician ghostwriting songs, the writer toiling at an advertising agency. They labor in obscurity until one fine day they catch a break and become famous. There's something irresistible about these stories. They give us hope that we too will catch a break, that we too will get to pursue meaningful work that we love. At Babson College, Jennifer Tosti Kara studies the benefits and the costs of having a calling. She joined us for a recent episode. It was titled Passion versus Paycheck. Today we welcome Jennifer back to answer listener questions in our popular segment, your Questions answered. Jennifer Tosti Karas, welcome back to Hidden Brain.

F (97:43)

Yeah, I think those Themes absolutely came out loud and clear in Jen's story. And I really appreciate the honesty. And I think that's absolutely. We ask people to trade off between money and meaning all the time. I think we don't even as a society always question the fact that we do that. So I think that is a trade off that a lot of people face. And I think actually to Jen's original point, you know, is it a privilege to do what you love? I think that's absolutely true. I mean, there are so many, if we think about our world and how many people really don't even have freedom to choose whether to work, what they do for work, how much control and autonomy they have over their own, what their own workday looks like? Absolutely. These are questions of privilege, and I don't want to pretend otherwise. I think, first of all, it's important that we think about a society in which no one has to do work that is truly meaningless or denigrated or what David Graeber once referred to as jobs that, you know, just sort of exist to perpetuate a hierarchy with, you know, no intrinsic value or purpose. So within a subset of the people who do have some choice over what they do for their work, I think the decision to prioritize, well, as Jen says, paying the mortgage and what's safe, I think that's a defensible position. You shouldn't feel less than because you prioritized stability, security, even a certain lifestyle over work that maybe was more lovable or more likable. However, it would be nice if that work didn't make you feel sad or make you feel that you actively dislike it. If you have the privilege to be able to change what you do or who you do it with, is there a way you can, as we call it job craft, to turn that work of patient care into something that seems less like a drudgery and more like a source of what you find meaningful about work. And I think this is one of the mechanisms that gets to one person's job being another person's calling. What are you making of the work? And in some regards, what are you doing and who are you doing it with?

F (103:56)

Yeah. So I want to take the pressure off people that it's not a better calling if you knew it from childhood, or it's not a more pure calling if you feel that it's the only one thing you've ever imagined yourself doing. It's a more A to B kind of journey. And it's a little simpler, cleaner than the alternative, but it doesn't make it better or it doesn't make it any more, more or less a calling. So there are people who have studied the pathways to finding a calling. So Matt Bloom, Amy Colbert and Jordan Nielsen looked into this and they found two types of pathways. The one I just described, I know my one true calling, and I sort of venture toward it. And then this other path called discerning a calling, which is really what I see for your callers, it's more about having experiences, but not just at random, not just randomly trying things, throw the spaghetti at the wall and see what sticks, but really thoughtfully learning through trial and error. It has to be an iterative, reflective learning process. So you try something, you learn what you liked about it, you learn what you didn't like about it, you adjust it accordingly and try again. And that that in and of itself is a pathway toward people ultimately, at the end of this feeling like they're in work, that was a calling. And also paying attention to, you know, what kind of signals are you getting from outside? So are there people who are exemplars and have a sort of career that you might want? What can you learn from them? Talking to them, talking about their journey, talking about how they knew. I mean, really just talking about callings, getting people's stories and finding inspiration from it. And when all else fails or not even when all else fails. But just let's not forget there are also resources, you know, for the number of times that people have said they talked to a coach or they took a class on how to change careers or how to make a pivot or how to get to meaningful work. I mean, I do think, and humbly, as someone who wrote a book about this, I do think reading books, taking courses, talking to a coach, you know, just putting some time and attention to this question of how can I find a calling? It can help. It certainly beats the alternative of just trying random things and then being, you know, upset when it doesn't work out.