Hidden Forces OVERTIME: EP.72 | Bob Kerrey on Party-First Politics and the Role of the Saudi Government in the 9/11 Attacks
Date: January 4, 2019
Host: Demetri Kofinas
Guest: Bob Kerrey, Former U.S. Senator and 9/11 Commission Member

Episode Overview

In this Overtime episode, Demetri Kofinas sits down with Bob Kerrey for a candid, rapidly paced conversation on American party politics, the Trump era, Russian electoral interference, and the deep, complicated ties between the United States, Saudi Arabia, and the events of 9/11. Kerrey provides unique, first-hand insights into the work of the 9/11 Commission and reflects with disquieting frankness about the political gamesmanship and real-world compromises at the heart of U.S. foreign and domestic policies.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The State of American Politics and the Trump Phenomenon

• Kerrey compares Trump’s style to that of historical figures like Andrew Jackson, concluding Trump's behavior is unprecedented.
• Conversation on political lying, Trump's frequent dishonesty, and public boastfulness.
  • "We've never seen anybody that covers his observations of what's going on in the world with things that are factually incorrect. So it's way beyond anything we've ever seen." (Kerrey, 00:42)
• Discussion on the rise of ideological extremism and loss of friendship over politics.
  • Demetri reflects: "I find myself getting in trouble… because I feel like people are so ideological and not willing to meet somewhere down the middle to see the other side as a human being." (Kofinas, 06:10)
  • Kerrey agrees: "I completely agree with that." (06:19)

2. Russian Interference in the 2016 Election

• Kerrey affirms that Russian interference decisively impacted the 2016 outcome.
  • "Vladimir Putin made a decision. He wanted Donald Trump to win... He contributed to that victory. ... Overwhelmingly persuasive argument that he won because of Vladimir Putin. ... We know that it swung the election." (Kerrey, 01:57–03:02)
• Kofinas expresses skepticism, Kerrey insists on the evidence.
• Brief mention of Senate reports and social media malfeasance (Facebook, Twitter, etc.) (01:34–02:54)

3. Reflections on Hillary Clinton, Democratic Politics, and Party Loyalty

• Discussion on Hillary Clinton’s candidacy, criticisms, and party dynamics.
  • Kerrey defends Clinton's role and contributions: "Hillary and Bill Clinton have been out helping Democrats for the last 40 years. It's not surprising that people who they helped are saying, yes, we'll help you win." (Kerrey, 04:29)
• Democrats seen as operating out of self-interest but justified by the nature of political alliances.
• The difficulty and divisiveness inherent in party work.

4. 2020 Election Predictions and Impeachment

• Kerrey predicts odds favor Democrats: "The odds favor whoever is the Democratic nominee winning the general election." (07:28)
• Emphasis on swing states: Michigan, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin (07:51–08:26)
• On Mueller Investigation: Compared to Watergate and Clinton’s probes, Mueller’s inquiry is moving quickly and secretly.
  • "Washington is a town where everything leaks and he hasn't leaked anything." (Kerrey, 08:41)
• Potential legal jeopardy for Trump and associates if he loses the 2020 election.

5. Trump, Saudi Arabia, and the Khashoggi Case

• Explores why Trump’s administration is protective of Mohammed Bin Salman (MBS).
  • Both political (Middle East strategy) and financial (potential future ties) factors discussed.
  • "Trump is… honest on that. He said, I'm doing it for oil. I'm doing it for weapons contracts…” (Kerrey, 12:01)
• Vision Fund and Saudi leverage in global finance highlighted.
• Kerrey doubts MBS can deliver real reforms: "He announces women can drive cars, and what else does he do? He puts the women who are advocating for women to drive cars in jail." (Kerrey, 13:30)
• The Khashoggi murder viewed as evidence of Saudi incompetence and a likely catalyst for U.S. policy changes regarding Yemen.

6. The Saudi Role in 9/11 and the 9/11 Commission

• Candid discussion of the complexity and political obstacles to fully investigating Saudi involvement.
  • "18 of the 19 hijackers were Saudis. ... The first two planes that left the United States were carrying Saudis out of the United States." (Kerrey, 13:52)
• Kerrey explains the limited time and resources available to the Commission and obstructions by Republican leadership.
  • "Republican Congress wouldn't extend our timeline, and the Republican administration didn't want to extend the timeline.” (Kerrey, 14:40)
• Confirms he was not surprised by Al Qaeda’s involvement, given years of intelligence warnings and previous attacks.
• Details the Commission’s insistence on bipartisanship—no minority report allowed.
  • "We need to be unanimous, because if we weren't unanimous, the public could…" (Kerrey, 17:20)
• Kerrey personally believes Saudi high-level awareness of the hijackers’ connections is credible:
  • "I don't think it's credible that 15 Saudis could participate in an attack... without somebody at the senior level knowing about it." (Kerrey, 18:39)
  • But, "The 911 Commission did not conclude that the Saudis were responsible for 9 11… we did not vindicate them. … What I expressed earlier was my own opinion." (Kerrey, 20:36)

7. Realpolitik, Wahhabism, and the U.S.-Saudi Alliance

• Discusses the Saudi regime’s balancing act between appeasing the U.S. and radical Islamists (Wahhabis).
  • "They owed their survival to the support of the Wahhabis. … It wasn't until Al Qaeda starts going after them in 2003 or 2004… [that] we better be a part of trying to beat back radical Islam or we're not going to survive." (Kerrey, 19:22)
• Postulates the regime’s indirect complicity as part of an internal political compromise, not direct enmity against America.

8. The Bush Administration’s Handling of Saudis Post-9/11

• Discussion on allowing bin Laden family and other Saudis to leave U.S. immediately after 9/11.
• Kerrey speculates the administration’s motives ranged from concern for their safety to not wanting to stoke vigilante anger.
  • "My benign point of view would be I'd give them the benefit of the doubt…" (Kerrey, 21:33)

9. Conspiracy Theories and the Limits of Knowledge

• Kerrey acknowledges persistent 9/11 conspiracy theories and the impossibility of achieving complete knowledge.
  • "When you start off with a presumption that it's a conspiracy, of course alternative conspiracies are relatively easy to put in the storyline. ... But I don't have any doubt about who organized it … it began with bin Laden's desire to attack the United States." (Kerrey, 22:59–23:55)

Memorable Quotes & Moments

• On Trump’s Unprecedented Style:
  "We've never seen anybody that covers his observations of what's going on in the world with things that are factually incorrect. So it's way beyond anything we've ever seen." (Kerrey, 00:42)

• On Russian Meddling:
  "Vladimir Putin made a decision. He wanted Donald Trump to win ... overwhelmingly persuasive argument that he won because of Vladimir Putin. ... We know that it swung the election." (Kerrey, 01:57–03:02)

• On Party Dynamics:
  "Hillary and Bill Clinton have been out helping Democrats for the last 40 years. It's not surprising that people who they helped are saying, yes, we'll help you win." (Kerrey, 04:29)

• On Khashoggi and Saudis:
  "He announces women can drive cars, and what else does he do? He puts the women who are advocating for women to drive cars in jail. So don't put me down in the camp of people that are optimistic..." (Kerrey, 13:30)

• On Saudi Involvement in 9/11:
  "I don't think it's credible that 15 Saudis could participate in an attack... without somebody at the senior level knowing about it." (Kerrey, 18:39)

• On 9/11 Conspiracy Theories:
  "When you start off with a presumption that it's a conspiracy, of course alternative conspiracies are relatively easy to put in the storyline. ... But I don't have any doubt about who organized it ... it began with bin Laden's desire to attack the United States." (Kerrey, 22:59–23:55)

Timestamps for Important Segments

• Trump and Political Lying: 00:37–01:13
• Russian Interference: 01:34–03:02
• Democratic Party Dynamics: 04:16–05:36
• Loss of Friendships Over Politics: 06:19–07:07
• 2020 Predictions & Impeachment Prospects: 07:28–10:01
• Khashoggi and Saudi Politics: 11:13–13:30
• Saudi Role in 9/11: 13:52–18:03
• Limitations of the 9/11 Commission: 14:40–15:19
• Wahhabism and US-Saudi Balance: 19:22–20:29
• Bush Admin.: Saudis After 9/11: 21:03–21:55
• Conspiracy Theories/Cover Up: 22:54–23:55

Conclusion

This episode offers a rare, unscripted look at the intersection of American politics, state secrecy, and international intrigue. Kerrey’s candor—especially regarding the limits of the 9/11 investigation and the possibility of high-level Saudi complicity—stands out. He paints a portrait of U.S. politics as messy, human, and, at times, deeply compromised, but ultimately insists on the necessity of transparency, bipartisanship, and skepticism toward the easy answers of conspiracy.