S3 Brittany Wallace Shank Bonus: Back to Fawn River

Summary

Hide and Seek – S3 Brittany Wallace Shank Bonus: Back to Fawn River

Podcast: Hide and Seek
Host: James Baysinger
Date: October 3, 2025
Episode Theme: Update on Brittany Wallace Shank’s Disappearance & Law Enforcement Shifts

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Episode Overview

This bonus episode revisits the unsolved case of Brittany Wallace Shank, who vanished under mysterious circumstances in November 2018. Host James Baysinger provides critical updates and reflections, focusing on recent changes within the St. Joseph County Sheriff's Office and their impact on the investigation. The episode features a candid, in-depth conversation with Brittany's father, Greg Wallace, highlighting the family's renewed hope and persistent struggles in seeking justice.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Law Enforcement Turmoil & New Leadership

• Chronicled the recent tumult within the St. Joseph County Sheriff's Office:
  • Sheriff Brad Balk’s early retirement, succession by Mark Lillywhite, and ensuing scandal—Lillywhite’s arrest for drunk driving while in office ([04:17], [05:17]).
  • Undersheriff Jason Bingaman’s departure, transition to Chad Spence as sheriff ([06:34]).
• New Sheriff Chad Spence brings credibility and ties to Brittany’s case from earlier investigative roles.
  • Quote: “My commitment to you is simple and unwavering. We will rebuild that trust.” — Sheriff Spence ([07:10])

2. Case Recap and Proof Challenges

• Reconstructed Brittany’s last verified movements:
  • 6:11 PM: Gas purchase at Marathon station, Fawn River Rd.
  • 6:20 PM: Arrival at her grandmother’s with an unidentified man.
  • 8:30 PM: Departure with same man.
  • 8:51 PM: Distressed 911 call barefoot and bleeding ([13:03]).
• Emphasized the importance of proof of a crime vs. a missing persons classification, its bearing on FBI involvement, and investigative resources ([02:26], [29:18]).
  • Quote: “What's more likely? That Britney staged a crisis, vanished on purpose, never to be heard from again? Or that the man who left with her knows more and a crime was committed?” – James ([32:40])

3. Greg Wallace’s Perspective: Setbacks, Persistence, and New Hope

• Greg candidly discusses his struggles, personal growth, and battle with substance abuse during the early search years ([18:01]).
  • Quote: “I had my head in a bottle of alcohol and a bottle of pain pills … I see a different path now, and I know I’m headed in the right direction.”
• Details Greg’s relentless advocacy—requests to have the case transferred to the Michigan State Police, and his public appeals before the county board ([19:03], [20:37]).
• Notable moment: Emotional recollection of feeding the stray cat he named “Brittany” ([16:52]).

4. Recent Developments & Promises

• Sheriff Spence’s Approach: Starts the investigation anew, commits to steady communication, assigns two new detectives (Brooks & Jennings), and collaborates with Michigan State Police, Cold Case unit, and recently, the FBI ([23:41], [24:45]).
  • Quote: “Whatever’s happened in the past, we’re moving forward. We can’t focus backwards, otherwise, we’re going to go backwards.” — Sheriff Spence ([21:53])
• Monthly updates promised and reportedly exceeded ([26:27]).
• New technologies in use: drone searches, improved case digitization, and efforts to secure geofencing warrants to narrow suspects ([23:41], [28:39], [29:18])
  • Geofencing challenged by the proximity to state borders and technological limitations, but attempts are ongoing.

5. Frustrations with Prior Investigation

• Ongoing anger over deleted social media accounts and lost memories by Ashley, with Greg pushing for accountability ([33:19]).
  • Quote: “I’m not gonna let that rest. She’s gonna pay some restitution for that.” — Greg ([33:19])
• Concerns about lack of subpoenas for digital evidence, criticism of previous law enforcement inertia ([42:24]).

6. Community & Listener Involvement

• Updates shared with listeners about the 7-year memorial vigil and plans for a dedicated garden at the site Brittany was last seen ([46:29], [47:07]).
• Greg underscores the importance of publicizing Brittany’s case, keeping her name alive in hopes of answers ([47:53]).
  • Quote: “I still hold the hope… Spread her story and her name.” — Greg ([47:53])
• Heartfelt thanks and anecdotes about listener support (shirts, artwork, meals) ([48:25]).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Law Enforcement Trust:
  • “We will rebuild that trust.” — Sheriff Spence ([07:10])
• On Living with Loss:
  • “Usually come out every night before dark, see if she comes walking up the road.” — Greg ([16:52])
  • “I've gotten letters from the IRS where, you know, somebody is trying to claim her, taxes and stuff. And I guess legally, you know, Eric can still… We're married, so that would be kind of weird.” — Greg ([34:38])
• Advocacy and Frustration:
  • “Why haven't you done it? It's been six years.” — Greg ([42:24])
• Gratitude to Listeners:
  • “I'd like to give a big shout out to Amanda from Texas who sent me all the shirts … That's all I wear now.” — Greg ([48:25])

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [06:34] — New sheriff Chad Spence brings promise of stability
• [13:03] — Full 911 call, Brittany’s last known distress communication
• [18:01] — Greg reflects on his personal struggles and renewed purpose
• [21:31] — Impact of leadership change on investigation momentum
• [23:41] — Announcement of two new detectives and coordination with Michigan State Police, Cold Case unit; new technology discussed
• [29:18] — Detailed discussions on proof, geo-fencing, search warrants
• [32:40] — Legal standards for moving from missing person to criminal case
• [33:19] — Greg’s refusal to let go of “Ashley” issue and data loss
• [42:24] — Frustrations with obtaining digital evidence
• [46:29] — Upcoming 7-year memorial event plans
• [47:53] — Greg’s direct message to listeners and the community

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Listener Questions

• Patreon Q&A: Amanda asked if the Hide and Seek PowerPoint was shared with law enforcement—James confirms it was ([38:03]). They clarify the critical nature of the final gas receipt ([38:46]).

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Final Reflections

James closes with optimism about the new leadership and growing collaboration, while Greg expresses cautious hope—relieved to see momentum, but firm about holding authorities accountable. The episode ends with an invitation to the November 30th vigil and a powerful reminder: Brittany deserves to come home.

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For further involvement:

• Attend the memorial vigil on November 30th, Fawn River Road
• Share Brittany’s story
• Reach out with tips
• Patreon for ongoing updates and bonuses

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Summary prepared for listeners who missed the episode; all ads, intros, and outros omitted.

Transcript

[A]

I'm Jeremy from Olive Branch, Mississippi.

[B]

Hey.

[C]

Jaime Williamson.

[D]

Kenya.

[C]

This is Dana.

[B]

Hi.

[C]

This is Jill. Hi. This is Jacqueline. Direct. I'm Lynne. I'm Vicki Lockery. I've come all the way to Nashville for CrimeCon 2024 from Australia and you're listening to Hide and Seek.

[A]

Hide and Seek Podcast.

[D]

Welcome for a bonfire.

[A]

Hey, Hide and Seek listeners, I'd like to personally invite you to join our Patreon community. By becoming a patron, you're helping keep this investigation moving forward and in return, we're giving you access to a lot more of the story. As a patron, you'll get behind the scenes footage, extended interviews, ad free episodes and exclusive live events with me, and occasional guest appearances. You'll also get early access to trailers, Patreon only episodes, special giveaways, and the chance to connect with others in this private community of true crime fans. Plus, you'll be first in line to hear the new episodes as they drop. When you join, you'll instantly unlock all the previous content in your tier, with options starting at just $1 a month month. Every bit of support makes a real impact in helping us search for the truth and share these stories. A quick heads up. Starting in November, Apple will add a 30% fee on Patreon purchases through the iOS app. To avoid it, visit patreon.com and search hide and Seek Podcast directly. Thanks for considering it. We'd love to have you join the journey with us. If you'd like to take more of an active role in discussing the case, head on over to Facebook and search the official Hide and Seek podcast discussion group. We'd love to hear your thoughts and insights. And for more behind the scenes content, be sure to follow me on Instagram and Facebook. Amesbasinger Podcast.

[E]

And please note, the views and opinions expressed by guests on Hide and Seek are their own and do not necessarily reflect those of the hosts or contributors. Listener discretion is advised.

[C]

Brittany Schenck went missing on the night of November 30, 2018. Since then, the St. Joan County Sheriff's Department continues to classify her case as that of a missing person, not a homicide.

[A]

What proof do you have that a crime was committed against against Brittany Wallace Schenck? It's not a trick question. The answer matters. It could crack this case wide open. That's the question I've been confronted with again and again. The one that decides whether the search for the truth moves forward or stalls out. I'm ready to answer that question. Prepared to share? Hey guys. This is a bonus episode for season three. The disappearance of Brittany Wallace Shang. Today's episode has a simple purpose. Push for answers, shine light on new places to look and give you a real update from Britney's father, Greg. If you are new here, I covered Britney's case in season three. A 23 year old daughter and mother who walked into her grandparents home with a man no one has named and within hours placed a 911 call barefoot and injured, then vanished. Since then, leadership changed at the sheriff's office. Promises were made, some movement began. But the middle of this night is still missing. We're going to clarify the timeline, define the next step and put the ask on the record. Everything I say starts at November 30, 2018. Brittany is gone. After that, you get turnover.

[C]

In St. Joseph county, the sheriff says he plans to retire. Bradley Balk announced his decision to retire last night at a county commission meeting. He told commissioners that he will step down on January 31st. According to the Sturgis Journal, this is 11 months before his current term ends. It's expected that he will appoint Undersheriff Mark Lillywhite to the position. Bulk has been sheriff since 2009.

[A]

His undersheriff, Mark Lillywhite moved up. I just got a message from Sarah. Sheriff got in trouble last night. That's not good. Nearly eight months after Fox 17 filed a Freedom of Information act request, we have received body and dash cam video from state police that was recorded after a crash on U.S. 131 in Kalamazoo County. And while no one was seriously hurt, investigators say they found St. Joseph County Sheriff Mark Lillywhite intoxicated in one of those vehicles.

[D]

Watching the tail lights, I kind of noticed that building over there.

[B]

Next thing we just bam. And then next thing we know, we're rolling.

[A]

Just before 2:30am Feb. 26, an SUV smashes into another vehicle. The driver seemingly at fault is St.

[E]

Joseph County Sheriff Mark Lillywhite.

[B]

Hey, Mark. Yep.

[A]

Okay. Trooper Canopolis, State Police.

[D]

How you doing? I'm good.

[A]

You can come on and hop out for me. So you can say right now that you're in the office two to three times a week.

[B]

Yeah. Yep.

[A]

And here's the other thing is as an elected official, the job description doesn't require you to be here. Every day it's a different type of work. Sheriff Mark Lillywhite is preparing to leave office nearly two years after he was arrested for drunk driving. And he's doing so without his right hand man, Undersheriff Jason Bingaman. Bingaman is set to Take over as the undersherif in branch county. County commissioner Jared Hoffmaster tells Lily white's fall to Spence's oath. Another shift, another reset. A new year ushers in a new era for the St. Joseph County Sheriff's office. Chad Spence was sworn in moments ago during a ceremony in Sturgis. Sheriff Spence telling me tonight that he's

[E]

ready to get started.

[A]

He says this is really the beginning of a new era. Replacing former sheriff Mark Lillywhite, who was arrested in February 2023 for drunk driving. He did stay in office until the end of his term, but his undersheriff took care of many of the responsibilities a sheriff would normally handle. Sheriff Spence says he hopes to bring stability to the sheriff's office. Here, listen.

[D]

Recent events have tested the trust between

[A]

the sheriff's office and. And the people we serve.

[D]

To the dedicated employees of this office, to the residents of St. Joseph county,

[A]

and to all those who depend on

[D]

us for safety and justice. My commitment to you is simple and unwavering.

[A]

We will rebuild that trust. I didn't talk about this much in season three. The last thing Brittany's story needed was more noise. February was chaos. Ashley had just failed her polygraph. She broke things off with Chuck Allen, rented a car she never planned to return. Then sheriff Lily White slams into another car. Nearly 100 miles an hour, twice the legal limit. Armed drunk, arrested. That hit like a gut punch. I remember getting the text from Sarah. Deflating on every level. I hoped it wouldn't touch Brittany's case. In my opinion, it did. Here's a little backstory. Lily White wasn't fired. He stayed in uniform. He kept the title of sheriff on paper, Undersheriff Jason Bingaman took a bigger role. But at the end of the day, Lily White still wore the badge. The county tried to act six to one. The commissioners voted to remove him. They sent a formal letter to the governor, Gretchen Whitmer. And by law, she had the authority. By law, she didn't have to. It was her discretion. And Lily White stayed in office. So when her season on Britney closed in 2024, the question wasn't just who would wear the badge next. It was about who the community trusted to lead. And one name kept coming back to me. Chad Spence. The locals were getting behind him, and I noticed his name for another reason. His reports. Spence wasn't a newcomer. He had decades in St. Joseph County Patrol, narcotics, tactical command, major crime scene work. He built a reputation as someone who knew the streets and someone who knew investigations. And he already had a history With Britney's case in 2019, Spence interviewed individuals tied to Brittany's case. Jeffrey Kiesling.

[D]

There was messages between me and Britt about meeting up and like, having sex and stuff. And I'm like, I never slept with Brit. They were trying to put this in

[B]

my head and I'm like telling.

[A]

I snapped on her.

[D]

I was like, look, you're not gonna make me believe something that I know I didn't do.

[B]

Eric Glyde thank you for using gtl. What are you doing? I'm fucking five and a half more years, that's what I'm doing. Did you understand where I was coming from with that letter? Because nobody really knows the truth. They know that what happened with her. That's what I'm saying. Them three were feeding information. I mean, you talked to me for a year straight. Their informants. That's why they got love. That's why they hid this murder. They tried to sweep that shit underneath the rug. It's a fucking house of mirrors, man. And that's the sad thing is Britney has to pay the price of this. I don't think they ever really gave a. You don't blame a bunch of people and run around like an idiot unless you did it. Well, it's almost locked down and I gotta wait 15 minutes, so it'll be another day, man. Check into that stuff like I told you to, do some investigating.

[D]

Love ya.

[B]

Thank you for using gtl.

[A]

Sheldon Ashbrook. Hey, chief. How you doing, buddy?

[D]

Oh, not too bad, man.

[B]

How about you?

[A]

When you look at that picture, does that look like the inside of your car?

[B]

No, I don't think so.

[A]

I'm pretty sure my interior in my car was tan. But it could have been my car. It looks like that probably very well could have been my car. Larry Kreutzer, Zach Kaner and others. And even sat with Ashley Hooley as her timeline kept shifting. When she last spoke to Brittany. First November 23rd, then November 28th, then November 30th by message. And when Ashley admitted she was logging into Brittany's accounts, Spence told her directly. Stop. That was in January of 2019. He also pulled jail phone calls between Britney and Zach. On November 30, 2018, Spence was already piecing the night together. And much of their groundwork is still carrying weight today. Now, years later, he's the sheriff and the same man who helped Britney's file in 2019 and is the one holding the authority to move it forward in 2025. Let's circle back to that question. Proof what do we have that shows a crime was committed? Here is what we can prove. On the night Brittany disappeared, 6:11pm A $20 fill at the Marathon on Fawn River Road. Around 6:20pm Arrival at Grandma's with a man no one has identified. Roughly two hours on the property. 8:30pm they leave together. 8:51pm A 911 call from a back porch, barefoot, bleeding, asking John to call 911 for help.

[B]

Where's the emergency? Off of Fawn River. Okay, you're on Fawn River Road near what? Cross street? What? What Cross street or what address are you at on Fawn River? Where are you at? He wants to know what street I guess is on Fawn River. Okay, do you have an address on Fawn River? Here's the guy. Okay, sure. Where's the place you're having from? What's the address you're at on Fawn River. Where? Uncle Workman. Hello. What's your last name? Hello? Huh? Direct. What's your last name? Hello? You. Well, where am I driving down here? Yeah, this is 911. What's the address that you're at? All right. 33339 River. Okay. Can you tell me what's going on there tonight? I don't know. The girl just came to the back door and she had no shoes on, no coat. She's bleeding. Got her feet, her arms. She said her boyfriend took off somewhere. He wrecked the car and took off running, I guess so. Bleeding on her feet and her arms? Yeah. Okay. Not confused. It's just been cut out the elevator. I mean, it's not gonna lose a lot of blood over it. Okay, so she. She said that her boyfriend, like, took off from the area. Do you know, was he abusing her or what? What happened? I. I don't know. I couldn't tell you that. Okay. All right. Would you say that she's. I mean, does she need medical attention or. You said it's not curious or what's going on. That's fine. I'm having a hard time making too much. She just told me she needs help. Okay. Yeah, absolutely. We'll get somebody down that way for her. Do you happen to know what her name is? Tell me your name. She don't seem to want to talk to me. Okay. Welcome back in here. Tell her the help's coming if you can. Tell her that help. The help is coming down that way. I just need her to stay there if she wants assistance. Yeah, she went outside. You ain't got no shoes on. And I give her A jacket. Okay. What's your name, sir? John Cassart. Okay. What's your phone number? All right, sir, are you able to get outside and see if she is. I mean, if she. If she's gonna stay there, So. I know for my officer. So I'm gonna send somebody down there, but. I made it through your own, okay? Okay. Yeah. Okay. Well, if you see any more of her, I guess let me know, but I'll send you back. Okay. Back in the house. Okay. All right. I will let him know. I'll get somebody started down that way for you. Okay. All right. Thank you. Yep. You're welcome.

[A]

The family heard it the same way strangers did. Through a news article online.

[D]

Hello? Doing my nightly routine. It's almost dark. She's been on my mind all day. Haven't been able to shake her all day. Usually come out every night before dark, see if she comes walking up the road. I'm actually now here tonight with the stray kitty that showed up when she went missing, the one I call Brittany. Bitch. Just got done feeding her and giving her fresh water.

[A]

What other interviews have you done with podcasts or outlets? News outlets.

[D]

You know, I've done some recent News with Channel 8 and Channel 3 there out of Michigan.

[A]

Imagine when we first met. Like, I don't think this would be anything. I felt like, at that time, a place I would ever, ever think you'd be willing to do.

[D]

Well, you know what, dude? To be all honesty, you know, like, the first time we met, in the first conversations we had, you know, that's all kind of just a blur to me, you know? I mean, you know, I told you, and I guess I ain't afraid to tell the people who listen now. You know, I had. I had my. My head in a bottle of alcohol and a bottle of pain pills for, you know, I just come out of it a couple months ago. So I see a different path now, and I see a different calling, and. And I'm on that path, and I can see my growth, and I know I'm headed in the right direction. I just got to keep myself there.

[A]

Well, you're doing it, bro. I know Brittany would be proud of you. You've been also channeling that energy and putting in the right directions, and that was a big step for you to meet with them and talk to the sheriffs. If you wouldn't mind. Let's start with this. How did you get to the point of getting this meeting? For those who don't know, I was

[D]

on a big kick last year, and, you know, I requested verbally, I requested in writing. I requested an email, you know, to have her case turned over to Michigan State Police.

[C]

It's been nearly six years since a Sturgis mother was last seen after her car crashed into a ditch. And tonight investigators say they have new details in this case. The mother's legal name is Brittany Shank. And princess investigators had more than just this phone call tonight.

[B]

They did.

[C]

According to the St. Joseph County Sheriff's Office, they're also releasing the sketch of a man. They believe this is the last person to have seen Brittany Schenck alive. And many are wondering why now. According to a press release. It's because police say they have exhausted every possible resource when trying to find Schenck and Shenk's brother, Victor Carter, who said last year that at this point in the investigation, he'd prefer police deem his sister's case a homicide.

[A]

Then they could potentially get the FBI

[D]

involved where they can bring in their

[A]

forensics team, they can bring in their interviewers, and, you know, we can continue

[D]

to progress the case even more.

[C]

Up until now, it appears police have never had any witnesses or suspects in the missing persons case, where Wallace is now fighting to have his daughter's missing person case turned over to Michigan State Police.

[D]

I don't feel that she's getting the attention that she deserves. Since Detective Oughton got put back on road duty, I don't think anybody's even been on her case.

[C]

It was at this courthouse just three weeks ago that Wallace stood crying in front of the county board of Commissioners, pleading with them to pressure the sheriff as well as the prosecuting attorney to turn Britney's case over to msp. The detective in charge of Brittany's case and the undersheriff did not return our additional request for interviews. Instead, the department released a statement reiterating their commitment to the case.

[B]

You.

[D]

You know what was going on up here. You know, our sheriff was MIA and Undersherif was filling in. He wasn't wanting to do nothing. Everybody's hands were pretty much tied. We didn't get any justice. So that kind of drove me further down my rabbit hole there for a while. And, you know, they had the elections. Chad Spence won live at 6.

[A]

Bottom line is we need to get more answers and try to give the family some peace. New tonight, a change in leadership at the helm of the St. Joseph County Sheriff's office is giving a local family renewed hope they will one day find their missing daughter.

[C]

How do you feel about previous leadership and how they handled Brittney's case.

[A]

Whatever's happened in the past, we're moving forward. We can't focus backwards. Otherwise, we're going to go backwards.

[C]

While previous undersheriff Jason Bingaman wanted to keep the case solely with St. Joe, Sheriff Spence says he'll be utilizing any and all resources, partnering with Michigan State Park Police this time around and assigning two new detectives to the case.

[A]

It doesn't matter what color uniform you wear, what kind of rank you have. It's again, serving our people and getting answers for our victim's family. And we do want justice for Brittany.

[C]

Now, the FBI is not involved yet in this case, but Spence also tells me the St. Joseph County Sheriff's Office will be meeting with them next week to have conversations about her case.

[D]

So I set the meeting up with them, and as you know, you were one of my number one people, that I wanted to be there, but they denied us that. I was still really pissed off headed into that meeting. But then after. Before I went in, I said, I'm gonna keep my lips shut. I'm gonna listen to what they have to say first. You know, he. He told me what he was going to do. He promised me what he was going to do. He wanted to start not looking at the past because there ain't nothing you can do about the pass, which I agreed to him. You can only move forward. So we started with a clean slate. And ever since that meeting day, I'll tell you what, man, the ball's been rolling. I was willing to bend, they were willing to bend. And so we met in the middle. We sprouted a new relationship from there.

[A]

What did they share with you about what they're going to do and what's coming for Brittany's case?

[D]

Well, you know, we talked about. He talked about the new. The two new St. Joe county detectives, Detective Brooks and Detective Jennings, that were put on her case. They weren't on the case before, so know the details of it or anything. They're new to it. They started at the beginning and with the help of the college and all the cold case unit that organized everything for them and everything, it has made it really wonderful for them to get caught up and up to speed on everything. They are partnering with Michigan State. Detective One was there personally. Two other ones were on zoom call. You know, we talked about some new technologies that have. That have developed, and it's a. It's a drone technology. And then they had a meeting with the FBI, and now the FBI is involved.

[A]

So a quick shout out to the one person who was able to accompany you. Who?

[D]

Jackie Milliman.

[A]

Did you guys ask if everything from crash site to grandma's house was searched?

[D]

Most of the areas have been searched. I. I pointed out a couple areas that have not been searched yet. I. I know they're planning on doing another search.

[A]

I just know that that was obviously one of the main things for them, you know, and thinking maybe that's what happened. And, you know, if they're going to continue with that theory, I would just love for them to, like, then knock it all out. I think going back to the. To the list of people who were present as I got this right, you have Sheriff Spence, Detective Otten, two new detectives. Yep.

[D]

Detective Brooks, Detective Jennings, two or three Michigan. Other Michigan detectives on Zoom under. Sheriff Dave Northrup was there. Prosecuting Attorney Deborah Davis was there.

[A]

Wow.

[D]

I called them all in. I. That's who I told him. That's who I told him I wanted to be there. And the only person that they would not let me have there was you.

[A]

The last thing I wanted to do was for us to get caught up in that. And then Brittany again gets put in the behind what's not relevant, important. I'm proud of you for even the short notice. Okay. I'm still doing it. And for all those people to be there. Let's talk about some of the expectations that you were. That you were promised. And so that way, what did they promise and how they would communicate with you moving forward.

[D]

I was promised that I was going to be, you know, called by phone at least a month to be updated on the case. At least once a month. You know, it is. I have to say, it has been more than that. They're exceeding my expectations.

[A]

New leadership says the file is moving. Monthly family updates, coordination with Michigan State Police. An FBI briefing promises, open the door, follow through is the test. Was it them sharing or was it you kind of coming in with the questions first?

[D]

The whole meeting was Chad Spence's way of saying, hey, you know, my hands were tied before. They're not now. Here's what I have done. Here's what I am going to do. Here's what I am promising you I am going to do. And so far, he's. He's fulfilled all those things that he's done.

[A]

I mean, what specific things come to your mind that you feel like he's doing in your eyes that you want to give him props for getting the

[D]

Michigan State Police involved and utilizing all their resources?

[A]

Did he by chance mention how Michigan State specifically was going to assist the St. Joe county detectives Brooks and Jennings

[D]

didn't really go into, you know, the details. He just said that, you know, here, here's the Michigan State people that are going to be working on it. You know, we're going to be utilizing any resource that we need. Then he had the meeting with the FBI and you know, now they're involved with their case. Anybody in the United States or in the whole world now can call the FBI, say Brittany Shank, and they know who it is. From what I've been told, it is very, very rare for the FBI to

[A]

get involved, to get their attention and involved. I mean you can only wonder.

[D]

Here's another thing we discussed in the meeting was geo fencing. I was never informed or whether they had tried to do geofencing or anything. Well, in the meeting we found out that they have tried to do geofencing. They didn't get much details on it. They just said that they had a bunch of problems with it because it was right there by the toll road and you know, the, the cell phone signals were jumping from Indiana towers to Michigan towers and huh, that, that I wonder.

[A]

Now back to proof. Proof that meets the legal bar.

[D]

And then so we discussed satellite geofencing.

[A]

Proof strong enough to move a judge.

[D]

I got told about that. That's all owned by Google now and Google does not have the responsibility to provide that to authorities.

[A]

That's where our warrant comes in.

[D]

No, they don't even have the responsibility with a warrant.

[A]

That'll make sense.

[D]

Maybe I took it wrong.

[A]

You can still request a judge to sign this. And again, Google has to, they have to legally oblige to it. Picture Grandma's parcel traced like a precise ring. Devices that cross that ring leave timestamp dots. The provider returns anonymous IDs first, investigators filter the noise. And with the judge's approval, only the relevant devices are unmasked. They did the triangular pinging, but when it comes to a satellite geofence, you need to have a judge sign off on that one. If we were to make the argument and say, hey, request a geofence warrant at grandma's house, which Grandpa still owns the property and I'm confident he's prepared to give a consent to the investigators to place a geofence around his land, it shows civilian and law enforcement alignment, which helps the judge see the request as narrow and respectful of the Fourth Amendment. Because this is private property, keeping the geofence tight to the parcel and limiting the time window, say 6:30 to 8:30pm Reduces risk of overreach everybody's device at that house on that day. Because if you used your cell phone, anytime it connects to the Internet out there, you've already been caught.

[D]

Yeah, because mom had Hughesnet satellite Internet.

[A]

Even if this phone is on there and it doesn't connect to the WI fi, they're on mom's property, which is again, the geofence. And you can see whose phone entered that property. So you know, grandma's phone, Britney's phone, Scott's phone. We have all these devices that.

[D]

That's. That's why I wanted you there that day.

[A]

Narrow, court supervised, not a dragnet. That structure addresses the biggest legal worry. Too broad of a sweep. Remember the standard Probable cause, not certainty, a fair probability that a crime occurred. This chain meets that bar. 611, Brittany alive and moving. Receipt in hand. 6:21pm she is at Grandma's with a man no one can name. 8:30, she leaves with that man. 8:51. She's barefoot, bleeding, asking John to call 911 for help.

[B]

Where is the emergency?

[A]

Seven years this November. No bank activity, no social media activity, no verified sighting. Nothing but silence.

[B]

She don't seem to talk to me.

[A]

Jeanne saw the blood on her arms and legs.

[B]

She had no shoes on, no coat. She's bleeding. Her feet, her arms.

[A]

Brittany's words were simple.

[B]

She just started making me jump.

[A]

This is not a staging. That is not theater. That is distress. What's more likely? That Britney staged a crisis, vanished on purpose, never to be heard from again? Or that the man who left with her knows more and a crime was committed? At least you got this. You got the confirmation. A monthly check in. You feel like you've been getting that and more. You have two new detectives. That was something else I want to kind of circle back to real quick. What was the plan? You told me that they were going to start from the beginning.

[D]

I get. You know, I guess they were starting at day one, working through the case file, looking everything over. We. We bring up Ashley in the media and we brought up the proof of, you know, her deleting Britney's accounts and being in financial record and everything. And I made it very well clear that I. I'm. I'm not gonna. I'm not gonna let that rest. Her deleting her Facebook accounts where I had all my pictures and memories and. No, I'm. I'm not gonna let that rest. She's gonna pay some restitution for that.

[A]

So you. You had a chance to bring that up to. To Sheriff Spence specifically.

[D]

Well, specifically brought up to Deborah Davis.

[A]

And how'd you feel that was received?

[D]

I think it was received pretty well. I mean, I think her eyes were still closed on some things that she wasn't aware of, and I think they still are. I've got to make her aware of

[A]

them, even if she's not involved with Brittany's disappearance. You were told by law enforcement specifically to stay out, and you still got in.

[D]

Well, yeah, and it's like I told him in the meeting, you know, I've gotten letters from the IRS where, you know, somebody is trying to claim her, taxes and stuff. And I guess legally, you know, Eric can still. Could still claim her. I mean, you know, like, we're married,

[A]

so that would be kind of weird. Definitely weird to be claiming somebody who's missing.

[D]

It's kind of strange getting pulled over in the middle of the night saying you're out searching for your wife, too, you know?

[A]

Yeah. I did not want them to have with this new sheriff's office to have this from the jump pushback between. And I didn't know if my presence or presence was going to have that. I didn't want that. So I was happy to ride the sideline. I was absolutely letting you quarterback it. I'm okay with it still, because I know ultimately this is, I think, going to build that relationship for you guys. So I'm happy to hear, you know, what he promised, and he's following through with it. So what does it look like? The new two detectives that are starting from the beginning, from what I understand,

[D]

they're pretty well caught up on it because, you know, me and you, we got our little side project. And so I. I talked to them last week, actually, and I had asked them, you know, where they're at, and they're there. And that was a big topic of the. Of the meeting, too. Was the. Was it Western Michigan or Eastern Michigan?

[A]

Western.

[B]

Okay.

[D]

Western. Vince really said they helped out. I mean, they just categorized everything to where, you know, they have a name brought up. All they got to do is type it in. And if anybody's ever talked to them or ever got a statement or their names ever come up, you know, it shows them when. Where, you know, they're way faster because before, you know, they just had paperwork everywhere and name thousands of names that they had to pour through. Her case is one of the biggest cases St. Joe county has ever seen. I mean, there was so much paperwork and shit involved, and now it's all digitized, and they throw out a name or something. Well, every name that gets thrown out, the police have to stop what they're

[A]

doing, you have to manually look it up.

[D]

They had thousands and thousands of names that come up and, you know, I mean, you know, you research it all. St. Joe county don't have the big enough force to have the, the people to work it, you know, and that's why we wanted it turned over to, you know, somebody that had the resources. Well, now that they're utilizing all those resources and they have help, then, you know, things are going good.

[A]

What do you plan on, is the next step for them with Britney's case? Do you feel like there's some, you know, you mentioned the two detectives being caught up. Do you know if there's a next step for them or what's happening after that?

[D]

Mid October or something? We're gonna hold the. A press conference with, you know, different news crews and the police department, Michigan. I don't know if anybody from the FBI will be there, but did they

[A]

talk to you much about the person of interest or let's say mystery man?

[D]

No. Nope.

[A]

Patreon a member. I let people know I was going to be talking to you. So I asked my Patreon community, they wanted to ask a question. So Amanda says, is the PowerPoint you made for them available to the new detectives to see where hide and seek investigation led? She continues. I can't let the gas receipt go and just want to send love to support to Greg and his family. I'll tackle the first part of that question, Greg. As far as the PowerPoint goes, okay, they do have a copy of it. It was provided and shared with them. It was inside the drive that I sent to them when the season ended as well. So as far as the receipt, has there been any recent updates with them on, on the receipt?

[D]

Well, no. And that's what I was talking about earlier, about what we were discussing and what, you know, we were waiting for them to catch up on. They said that they're, they're there at that. You know, they've done past that part, so. And as you know, I guess we should clarify for Amanda there that you had turned that stuff over to Haughton and then. But now whether the new sheriff and his team has that information where we are unaware if they have that, but you and I know that they are going to have it again because I have it. And I will be sending them to Deborah Davis and Detective Spence, Sheriff Spence. Now, the receipt is a big deal. That was the last place she was at before she went to mom. So that's on one of my top priority lists, is Something's got to be done about that. I don't give a if she's your guys's confidence informant now or what. I, I, I don't care. She done wrong and she needs to pay for it.

[A]

Obviously to your point, I mean, to your comment about her being an informant, I mean, that's obviously us pointing out the lack of attention they've given towards her. You know, we're not accusing her of being an informant, but, well, I mean,

[D]

she calls her uncle, she calls her uncle and they all, you know, walk away free.

[A]

I mean, yeah, squirt some out on

[D]

the sidewalk too, Brad Bulk at the time, which she's, I don't know, somehow marriage related or something. But yeah, you know, and they all walk from trouble. I mean, he thinks above the law. That's why she went and done it again. A lot of people may, you know, oh, just Facebook account, who cares? You know, I mean, I cared. I mean that's, you know, that's the place that me and her shared messages and pictures. That was the only place I could go to see that stuff. And now it's all gone and never get it back. How do you put like a damage or something on that? You know, I mean, I don't know. That's something I can never get back now. You know, not only is she gone, all the memories that I had are now gone. I don't care if it's one day in jail. I don't care. She has to be held accountable because I, you know, I'm sure Brittany's not the only person she's done it to.

[A]

I mean, I mean, they got a laptop I got from her that they should have everything. Thousands. Thousands.

[D]

Okay, well, if they got it, then why ain't she in jail? You know, maybe your listeners and stuff ought to start asking the same question.

[A]

And I hope that what Spence is doing now with the activity that we're seeing, that things are actually, it's not just handed to them, but it's now something's happening afterwards. And I feel like with two new detectives on it, state, FBI, you foreseeing activity if there's something that they can actually charge it legally with and they can make it stick. I hope that they do.

[D]

I hope they do too.

[A]

You said stuff that you're losing from a personal position, and there's also stuff from a investigative angle too, that's being lost because she's getting involved when she just, she was told to stay out. Then you're watching it vanish right before your eyes. Profiles are Being deleted,

[D]

you know, as far as trying to gain all those Facebook records and stuff, made it sound like it was such a problem and that they didn't even want to deal with it. Well, we would have to get subpoenas and. Okay, well, why haven't you done it? It's been six years. Instead of telling me, well, we would have to get. Go fucking do it. Yeah, I just feel like the jobs haven't been getting done, you know, and like you, all you got to do is subpoena Google. Well, that may be all it's got to be, but they're telling me that, you know, oh, it'd be impossible, you know, and you'd have to try to subpoena everything. And hard telling if they even still have records. Well, you don't know unless you do it, you know, hopefully. Maybe that's what they're utilizing the FBI for.

[A]

Part of the issue is getting consent to search devices on someone's private property. I've heard from Thurston County, a county that I work with, when it came to a geofence that they searched, they could put a line of your parcel property and say, that's all we're searching for. That's all they're allowed to in a court order.

[D]

Yeah.

[A]

I want to jump into this next question from Barbie. Do you know of police or detectives have really looked in Eric Schenck as they should be? They, I mean, I'm sure they touched base with him, but don't know how much they have or really got as far as answers or interviewing him.

[D]

Well, was brought up in the meeting that day and here's what we were told. Here's what we were told on the Ashley and Eric situation, that they both voluntarily came in. They both have voluntarily took polygraph and they both passed. What questions were asked? We don't know that. That wasn't discussed. We were told that they both passed.

[A]

That's good that they. They took polygraphs. One, they're, they're showing cooperation. But two, it's good that they were spoken to. Did they. That's all that they had shared?

[D]

Yeah, pretty much. Yep. Most of my questions were directed towards Spence. You know, there wasn't really much conversation or anything, details given. It was just that, you know, they had both been brought in, they've both been talked to, they both took polygraphs and passed and that was, that was the extent of it.

[A]

Did they share with you when they had spoken to Ashley and Eric?

[D]

No, they did not.

[A]

Did they mention any new suspects?

[D]

No, they didn't

[A]

and have you heard from Eric, have you heard from Ashley since the season ended?

[D]

I, I haven't heard from Ashley since it was on my birthday of like, I don't know what, what was the year that she introduced us?

[A]

August of 22.

[D]

That was the last time I ever went. And then I really didn't talk to her. She sent me a message on my birthday saying she needed to talk to me and I, I've never had communication with her since.

[A]

Walking away from the interview. So you get we had a chance to talk about Eric, Ashley walking away. How did you feel

[D]

when I left that room that day? I felt that her case was in good hands. But now if they don't keep up with their promises and stuff, then I'm, I'm gonna have second thoughts and I'm gonna nail them to the wall on it. I already warned them and I, I told him, I said, I, I agree that we can start over, but I'm telling you, if, if you, if you don't, I, I'm telling you I'm coming for you.

[A]

We also have an event for Brittany coming up this November. You want to talk about that?

[D]

A seven year memorial on November 30th. Probably hold it out at John's Place, now owned by Linda. She's donated some of her property

[B]

for

[D]

a memorial garden for Brittany. It's going to be a pretty sizable memorial garden when we're done, if people

[A]

are able to attend there. Is Linda okay with yes?

[D]

Yep. We're gonna have a bonfire and plenty of room to park out there. And we're out in the middle of bum fucked Egypt, so hopefully we have good weather and we're gonna make it happen.

[A]

Yep, November 30th, if you're able to and want to attend, we'll be out on Fawn River Road.

[D]

We'll get it posted here.

[A]

Pretty quick message to the people who have been listening and following Brittany's case. You know, there's a lot of people who, who even to this day who are like, hey, I'm hearing about this case for the first time. And I get people who are like, hey, I've got listened to this thing seven times. What would your message to those out there be?

[D]

You know, just pass her name and case on to everybody. I, I still hold the hope, you know, she could, she could be anywhere. We could, we could all have it wrong. I spread her, her story and her name and tell everybody, you know, where articles and stuff can be found. And I try to get her name out there to as many People and just trying to get her out there

[A]

fighting the good fight, man. Proud of you. Anything else you want to share with the listeners out there?

[D]

Thank them all for taking the time to listen to our story and for all the help that they've done. I'd like to give a big shout out to Amanda's from Texas, who sent me all the shirts. I believe she's one of your podcast listeners. I wear those shirts on a daily basis now. Shirt for every day. I wear them every day. That's all I wear now. I mean, all different kinds of designs and yeah, it just floored me. And then we have the people that have done the paintings for me and stuff. I mean, you know, I've never met these people a day in my life, and they've brought me so much happiness and joy. Jackie and George Milliman, all the time that they've invested in, you know, money and parades and George coming over and giving me counseling sessions and just amazing people. Oh, yeah. Allie and Nate, boy, they make good breakfast over there.

[A]

I know. Next time I'm in town, I gotta. I gotta hit up their. Their spot.

[D]

I. Oh, yeah, we're going, brother. We'll go together, buddy.

[A]

The magic grill in colon.

[D]

They gave us a free meal, which I thank them for that. And then, you know, they gave us some free Amish donuts. Those are awesome, man.

[A]

Makes my heart happy knowing that beyond the season that these relationships are, they're lifelong lasting.

[D]

I don't want any of your listeners to feel bad or anything. I get a million Facebook friends requests and everything. You know, every. Everybody wants to be friends with me, but my Facebook's. My Facebook, it's. I'm. I'm not a big social media people person, so it's just personal, close people to me, and I don't let anybody else in. I don't want any of your listeners that have sent me requests and I've denied. I don't want them to feel offended or anything, but that's just how I am. That's just something I've had to do to. To cope too, because, you know, I started off letting everybody in, but then I would just get flooded with so many questions and stuff like that that I. I just keep my closest people in there. Now, now my. My wife Emily, I mean, that's a different story. She adds, anybody if you want to be on somebody's friend's book. My wife had request. She's the social bug.

[A]

So poor Emily's about to get flooded. Emily, this is your husband saying it's not me anyways. All right, bro, I'm gonna cut the recorder here in a second, but said

[D]

that's all the questions we had from the Patreon fans, huh? Well, you know what? Bring what you need. Come up here and we'll sit down and we'll do a live when we're doing her anniversary. Let's make that happen, brother. Let's do a live before we do her bonfire.

[A]

And let's do it.

[D]

Let's do it.

[A]

November 30th.

[D]

What are you doing, huh? Yeah. I can't believe that Dookie's been sitting out here on the porch with Britney, not bothering her at all.

[A]

God is good, bro.

[D]

You're right. God is good.

[A]

I'm encouraged by the direction Sheriff Spence is taking. I understand why he asked me to sit out of the first meeting. He's working to restore trust, to repair relationships. And he's right. It has to start with Britney's family first. On my next visit, I'll be making an effort to meet with the new detectives now assigned to her case. And on November 30th, the community will gather near Fawn River Road in Workman at the vigil Greg is putting on for his daughter. Bring a light. Bring a lead. Stand with the family because Brittany deserves to come home.

[E]

Help support our search for missing persons by following Hide and Seek on Instagram and Facebook and by joining our Patreon at Hide and Seek Podcast Podcast. Stay updated with news from past seasons and the latest on Season four. The Hide and Seek podcast is hosted, produced and directed by James Basinger. Lead script writing and episode design by Sarah Jo Audio Mixing, mastering and repair by Shane Morrow of Morrow Mixing and Mastering Season four theme Pretty Little Devil by Shay Zama Music composed and performed by Alex UK of the House They Haunt Is yous Director of photography Ethan Schatz second camera Tristan Meilou graphic design for season four by Bitvargin of Blood Co. A heartfelt thank you to our ground team and Patreon supporters. Your contributions make these investigations possible.