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- [00:02]
John Gabris
This is a headgun podcast. Wow. Listeners, it is November, which means only one thing. Democracy is on the line. No, that's not what I'm here to talk about. I'm here to talk about the 10th annual High and Mighty Thanksgiving Eve Power Hour. Coming live and live Streamed on Wednesday, November 27th at 7:30pm you can watch it for up to a week and a half afterwards on live stream. You can buy tickets to go see it live at Dynasty Typewriter. You could just wait a day and listen to it for free. But I'd prefer if you didn't. Because your buddy all Gabriel needs that money to get him through the holidays. I need to get. I need to get Santa rescued. He's been kidnapped. To me, the Rock and Chris Evans are going down there in a CGI fucking bonanza. No, for real. The Power Hour. Get tickets@powerhour.gabrius.com. um, I'm positive Emma threw this in the show notes so that you could be hyped about it. Power hour, 10th annual, the last who knows? See you there. What's up, shitheads? Welcome back to another episode of High and Mighty. It's me a boy. The number one book boy, Johnny G. From the south shore of Nassau county, long Island, standing 6 foot 2, 300 and something pound, it's John Gabris. All you gotta do is trust me. Jackson, Maine, from A Star Is Born, portrayed by Bradley Cooper. You are still part of the intro. Just drop me. It's all you need to do. I can't. I can't quit you, man. Abortion is healthcare. Well, that's important. I'm glad you stopped by to say that. Why don't you get out of here while I introduce the spiritual silent co host, Arthur Gabris. Arthur has crossed the rainbow bridge. He's at the big podcast studio in the sky right now licking the legs of wonderful guests of podcasts. I'm trying to think of one who's been deceased recently. Can't think of it. Okay. Also joining me in the High Mighty studios, guest. He's back. I think one of his third or fourth appearance at this point. He's a birthday brother. He is the producer of the Gino Lombardo Show, a talented fucking weird genius, the producer of the video Archives podcast, and the creator of the new card deck building game called Doomsday, now available in the Steam stores. Put your fucking hands together for Josh Richmond. Yeah, yeah.
- [02:41]
Josh Richmond
You know what this is. Hi, guys. This is my. I think my third appearance on this show, but I believe this is my first appearance as a solo participant. I've been on with Brett and I've been on as part of a lineup of the Birthday brothers.
- [02:52]
John Gabris
Right? Yes.
- [02:53]
Josh Richmond
But this is just you and me.
- [02:55]
John Gabris
Finally some one on one time.
- [02:57]
Josh Richmond
Finally some one on one time. Can I say about Jackson Maid too? I love the Bradley Cooper as star is born. I really love that movie.
- [03:05]
John Gabris
Me too. I truly loved it. I cried in the theater throughout almost the whole thing.
- [03:10]
Josh Richmond
The fucking one of just the great big melodramatic tearjerkers. And since then I both thought Bradley's follow up was a little dull. And now Joker 2 makes me feel like I don't know what Lady Gaga's up to. So that just seems more and more like a one off kind of. Kind of piece of magic.
- [03:26]
John Gabris
I hated Joker 2 with a passion. I did not hate Maestro. I enjoyed the movie kind of despite Bradley Cooper's energy leading up to it. He really wanted me to hate it based on his behavior.
- [03:39]
Josh Richmond
He really did. It was definitely a lot of interesting stuff going on, but kind of a little long and a little sleepy and didn't really recapture the magic. I'm still waiting for it. Maybe they just had to do a movie.
- [03:49]
John Gabris
I mean, he's objectively talented, so I'm sure he'll direct something if he's a good actor and a good director. I don't know which direction he really wants to keep going in, but I'm curious.
- [03:59]
Josh Richmond
I think he just. I think he wants to only. I've heard that he only wants to act in his own projects from now on. That's what I've heard. Like he's going like the Mel Gibson, Clint Eastwood kind of.
- [04:09]
John Gabris
That's crazy. Would he direct something he wasn't in though? I wonder.
- [04:15]
Josh Richmond
I wonder too. I feel like so far it has seemed like it's like, oh, I need to make the perfect showcase for me, which is you can kind of feel that energy.
- [04:23]
John Gabris
Yeah, he has that vibe as a person. I will say every time Bradley Cooper comes up, I like to talk about this. The. I forget what it's called. It's called like Summer of Rain or something. It's the documentary about the making of Wet Hot American Summer. And in it they have a lot of behind the scenes interviews with all these like legendary comedy people who are super young and it's really funny. It's like interview footage with Amy Poehler, with Michael Ian Black, with all the cat, Jeanine Garofalo. And in every single one, they are being so dumb and so funny and so not serious. And like, well, yeah, we have to do a lot of takes cause we're addicted to cocaine or whatever, like making all these dumb jokes. And then every time they cut to Bradley Cooper, he is so earnest and real and you know that he went to grad school at the fucking. Whatever his name is. Lipton, the. I forget what the name of that inside the actor studio. He went to that studio.
- [05:20]
Josh Richmond
That's right, yeah. James Lipton. Yeah. No, he's so clearly always been that guy. And I mean, I think I saw Wet Hot before I saw the Hangover. But like the Hangover is the first time I remember like Bradley Cooper as like, you know, like one of the stars of the movie. And he seemed, he really fooled me into being like, oh, you just seem like some bro. You're not this guy. But clearly it's always been a put on the entire time. Yeah, he's always been waiting to come out.
- [05:43]
John Gabris
It's like Amy Puller and Janine doing like insane jokes. Michael Ian Black show Walter doing insane jokes. Then it cuts to Bradley Cooper and he's like, well, see a lot of these people are, are trained in improvisation. So I'm trying to achieve this level. And he's like taking the BTS way too seriously. And it's like, it's just kind of funny in the moment. But now with like 25 years of context, you're like, yeah, of course.
- [06:04]
Josh Richmond
Yeah, of course. God, of course.
- [06:08]
John Gabris
Well, I. You made a deck building game which kind of inspired us to talk about card games. Because I'm a lifelong card game player. My family is gamblers, so I've learned. I knew how to play blackjack and poker from very young, but then I was a Magic the Gathering kid. And even more than magic, I played Star wars, the customizable card game Star swccg.
- [06:34]
Josh Richmond
I. Oh, interesting years.
- [06:36]
John Gabris
But I've also played X Files, Marvel Overpower, Lunch Lunch Money. I've tried like so many different card games over the years because they started.
- [06:46]
Josh Richmond
There have been, there was, there was a period I want, I want, I'm not sure when like the peak of like the like, you know, the paper collectible trading card game was because there was a while where it seemed like, oh, every one of the major like nerd IP brands had had to come up with their own.
- [06:59]
John Gabris
Yeah, I would, my guess would be based. And this is so anecdotal and maybe even, you know, self centered. But I believe it's like 96, 97, 98 because that's when, that's at least when it Started popping off. I stopped playing these kind of games by, like, 99, 2000 because I was going to college, and that kind of slowed down at the time. But I remember, like, the X Files card game dropping and it being like, oh, fuck, this is the future. We're doing, like, so many card games kept coming up. I had been playing magic for a few, few years than all of these games, and it felt like, you know.
- [07:38]
Josh Richmond
Dealers, suddenly everybody wants to capture that because they just. I think. I think first and foremost, they just saw the cash cow of like, look at these people spending hundreds of fucking dollars on these games.
- [07:46]
John Gabris
Yeah, I can. Yeah. And it's like I would ride my bike to the Comic Book Depot on Jerusalem Avenue and get my fucking whatever. I got a booster pack. Oh, shit. I got Chewbacca. Fuck, yeah. I got to figure out a deck to use him. Oh, he sucks. Okay. Never.
- [08:01]
Josh Richmond
Of course. I think 96, 97, 98. I think you're right. There was a recent episode of the Blank Check podcast I listened to where they were talking about the Austin Powers franchise, and they opened up a few packs of the Austin Powers Collectible Trading Card Game, which I. Which I did not know existed.
- [08:17]
John Gabris
But it's funny now that you say, like, even the way you just said it, the collectible trading card game. Before the games, trading cards were huge, right? And like, even with, like, Marvel Masterpieces. Marvel. The Marvel game, the Marvel cards, football cards, baseball cards, all that.
- [08:38]
Josh Richmond
Yeah. When I was real, real young, I just remember, like, baseball cards and shit like that, Right. It wasn't the game, but it was just like, look at these cool things I have.
- [08:44]
John Gabris
Then I remember when the Marvel cards started dropping, and it'd be like, oh, cool, Spider. I got Carnage. And you would, like, look at them and be like, these are cool, and collect them. And then you would kind of, like, make up games just to have it be like, whoa, Hulk has more strength than thing. Oh, cool. And, like, you'd play. And then it felt like out of nowhere, it's like, hey, there's this game called Magic the Gathering, which is like D and D with cards. And, like, tell me about it. And then all of a sudden, every thing started being game, and it's like, wait. And then I think by the time Pokemon came around, I was completely gone. Like, I did not play card games, collect cards, or even watch maybe, you know, that. Those kind of cartoons anymore. Like, I. I had just missed that boat. But watching my brothers who didn't play any of the games I just mentioned get really into Pokemon was like, an interesting.
- [09:33]
Josh Richmond
No, we're like, again, we're like a few years apart. We're slightly different generations. But I definitely remember this exact wave you're talking about of. Because for me, it was all about magic. That was 100% the thing that got me into it. And when it started being Pokemon and Yu Gi. Oh, and I think there was a Digimon game, too, and those started becoming the dominant ones. And they were all tied in, of course, to the video game and the cartoon and all this stuff. That was a different wave. And that was the wave that I think it seemed more for kids. And I think also the rules are a little dumbed down compared to magic. And I was related for the crazy combos and the weird deck design and all this stuff, so that's really what attracted me. But, yeah, no, that transformation from, like, oh, it's just collectible trading cards, but there's no game. But you can kind of see kids coming up with their own games. And then somebody decides to cash in on that and be like, what if we have the game built in? That's, that's, That's. That's how this whole thing got started.
- [10:30]
John Gabris
The capitalism behind it is brilliant because it's like, yeah, well, how do we make money off kids wanting to win? And it's like, well, they can buy cards that make their decks better. And all of a sudden you're like, okay, like, lunch money was a card game we really liked, but it wasn't a collectible card game. You just bought, like, one deck and played with it. And that was a lot of fun. But these other ones were like, bastard genius ideas of, like. I remember we, like, after Christmas, me and my two buddies splitting a box of boosters and, like, just feeling like nothing is better than this. Like, nothing can stop us now. Like, this was the richest I've ever felt. Was like, all right, we have 20 packs. You know, like, let's start opening them.
- [11:16]
Josh Richmond
I absolutely remember it. I. When I was in third or fourth grade, I absolutely remember looking at my collection and being like, you know, this is going to support me when I'm an old man. This is obviously just going to keep going, going up in value somehow.
- [11:28]
John Gabris
Yeah, this is. This was our bitcoin. Like, our fucking. Our bitcoin of the day. Our blockchain of the day. Was like, hopefully a tog ends up being in a very pricey card. But there was at the time, like, we knew of the Black Lotus and stuff. And then, of course, there'd be, like, thousands of generations and versions and all that that would eventually like muddy it and make. But there are still like monster collectibles.
- [11:55]
Josh Richmond
No. Like, well, so the first couple of years of Magic the Gathering, like, they didn't really know what they had on their hands. And so they designed a game that was just like, in retrospect, like so busted and barely even worked as an actual game. Like, they made the Black Lotus card. They made this card because they thought, well, we're making it rare and nobody's actually going to get four of these because nobody's going to try hard enough to actually collect all of these and put it in their deck. Not really knowing how. How dedicated and hardcore people would eventually get about this. They're like, of course I want to collect, like make a whole deck out of rares. They never thought that would happen.
- [12:29]
John Gabris
Right, right.
- [12:30]
Josh Richmond
They didn't anticipate this.
- [12:31]
John Gabris
I just realized that, like I was cleaning out my desk the other day and I was organizing a little bit and I found, I found I have some. These are newer magic cards. But like, sure, I got the Tarrasque in there because of the D and D magic cards really appeal to me. But here I got Star wars cards, I got fucking Dota stuff.
- [12:53]
Josh Richmond
They did doing great. Star wars, the Lord of the King, the Lord of the Rings cards are really cool.
- [12:57]
John Gabris
Obi Wan, I got the Millennium Falcon. I got Rogue One. These were all rares. I got Obi's lightsaber. I got all these fucking cards now that I wish I could fucking play with. Like, I wish I had. It's so funny now that I have, like, you know, I'm a childless adult with making grown up money. Like, I would love to get into one of these fucking cars games now and totally start playing again here. The Excavator.
- [13:22]
Josh Richmond
By the way, when you mentioned before that like the chewbacca card sucked or whatever and like the original Star Wars Galactico board game. So what I was saying about the Austin Powers game is basically they were going through and realizing like, oh, all of the. They want to make sure that all the packs have recognizable characters in them. So you're always likely to get like Minibi or Scott Evil or whatever, like some of the characters that are from the movies, but because they want to make sure those show up at every pack, they can't be that good. So there's this weird dynamic where like the characters everybody recognize always kind of suck.
- [13:53]
John Gabris
Yeah.
- [13:54]
Josh Richmond
And then, and then the really obscure characters, like, you know, whatever, some random fembot or something is gonna Be the one who's actually superpowered and is that.
- [14:02]
John Gabris
Will, like, help your deck, actually.
- [14:03]
Josh Richmond
Right.
- [14:06]
John Gabris
And then, I mean, we'll jump back and get a little more personal about all the games we were playing. But I'm enjoying tracking this, like, kind of trajectory.
- [14:13]
Josh Richmond
No, there's totally a history to it because, like you said, I've gone through multiple phases with magic. Basically, where I had my elementary school phase, where I just, like, I saw kids on the playground playing, and I got a couple of packs, and this was during the really broken era, and I eventually kind of fell out of it. And then in college, I actually met some friends who were building decks again. And that's when I had my second phase of kind of getting back into it. This is when they started kind of figuring out their shit. And it was. It was maybe a little bit less popular than it was five years ago, but it had held onto this more hardcore fan base who was really more into the ongoing deck design, and they had hired more designers who kind of knew what they were doing. And suddenly you could build all these really creative multicolored decks. And the games were a little faster, and there was more actual combat, and that was a really, really fun time to play. It was like the early 2000s.
- [15:05]
John Gabris
Yeah, I remember that being kind of coming back a little. Then I kind of waned off in the late 90s, and I saw it coming back in the early 2000s, and then it wouldn't be until, like, 2010, 2013, 2014. Somewhere in there. I went home. Oh, it must have been after I lived here. So It'd be like 2013. I went home to do Del Close Marathon in New York, and Friend of the Pod, Dan Black and a few other nerdy UCB guys were all playing magic. And I'm like, whoa, Pier's playing this game that I haven't thought about. Like, it hadn't even been in my mind for 10 years. Like, D and D never left my mind because it's, like, part of my DNA. DN DNA. And. But it was crazy to see. And I'm like, oh, shit. Now it's like, back up. And now in the last. Then there was MTG online that a lot of my friends got back into that the players.
- [15:55]
Josh Richmond
That was. That was a huge thing for actually getting people to realizing, like, oh, I don't have to have these, or I don't have to play in person. Don't have to have the actual physical copies of the cards.
- [16:03]
John Gabris
I don't have to have, like, a special bag and a Special deck box that you keep all your. I had so many fucking card box and sleeves and shit like that.
- [16:12]
Josh Richmond
Like I went to Staples and I got one of these like big, big rolling like file drawers that are meant for like manila folders. But I just shoved them full of deck boxes and like organized each one. Like, here's the blue cards, here's the black cards.
- [16:26]
John Gabris
Exactly.
- [16:26]
Josh Richmond
Eventually, even though it was on wheels, like it was too heavy to push and it's just like, it's completely like stacked full of cardboard. It's just a piece of wood at that point.
- [16:35]
John Gabris
Oh man, I bet you I could track down some cards in my mom's house too. I should probably do that next time I'm home as a project. Yeah, the. The on MTG online coming back kind of. I'm sure it. I played it in early phases. I'm sure the game is even better designed now. But then for me, I'll probably. Before deck building and deck roguelike games came out, there was this, there was Hearthstone, which was a. For me, I'm a Blizzard junkie. I play every Blizzard game that comes out. And this game, Hearthstone comes out which is a card game. And then it is like a head to head card game the way magic is. And then I got really into Hearthstone for a while and playing that on my laptop while on tour and shit and I got really into that game and. And like I couldn't believe that I'm like I'm addicted to another card game and like this one's online and I'm bad. I was never good at it either. And I was truly addicted to it and had so much fun playing it and I couldn't stop it. I'm like, holy shit. And I'm looking at. And this would be, you know, 10 years ago, eight years ago or whatever that. Whatever that was. So now I'm on like year 20 of being into card games.
- [17:49]
Josh Richmond
No, and it's. And it feels like since, since that initial, like, oh, we sort of like struck gold figuring out how to make money off this thing. In the mid-90s, they've just been like honing and honing this game loop and figuring out what makes it addictive and what keeps people coming back. And it's just like a better and better dopamine machine. Basically.
- [18:05]
John Gabris
Yes.
- [18:05]
Josh Richmond
Is where we're at now with the Hearthstones of the world. Because for me, long story short, I fell off magic for a while and eventually it was just like, I can't get back into this. This took up too Much of my life, I'm a grown man. I have too many responsibilities or whatever. But then Hearthstone kind of passed me by. But the main developer of Hearthstone started a second game called Marvel Snap, which I'm not sure if you've heard of or have tried out.
- [18:27]
John Gabris
Okay, this is going to be so specific. But the only thing I. The way I know about Marvel Snap is from Vic Michalis Instagram. They post it constantly. So what now? Tell me what Marvel Snap is. No, I need another addiction.
- [18:40]
Josh Richmond
It's a similar thing because it's from the same developer of Hearthstone and it's these same kind of like quick head to head games that you keep unlocking new cards. Each game takes like two minutes, but every card is a different Marvel character. So obviously they got this really good IP and it's just this just really well designed, really fast paced. Like it's. Literally Every game is six turns. Once you pass six turns, it's just over.
- [19:02]
John Gabris
It's IO iOS game.
- [19:05]
Josh Richmond
It's, it's. It's. I think it's iOS and Android, though.
- [19:08]
John Gabris
Oh, okay.
- [19:09]
Josh Richmond
But yeah, and it's. And it's well decided. So it's like. Feels like you can unlock things, but it's not super. Pay to play.
- [19:16]
John Gabris
I was gonna say. Is it like a freemium game? Kind of.
- [19:18]
Josh Richmond
It is. There's stuff you could pay for, but it's mostly like better skins instead of like unlocking the good cards. So it's just, it's just, there's some. There's, you know, it's just really well balanced. I've now gotten to the point that I'm like, not only playing Marvel Snap constantly, but watching Marvel Snap videos all the time, which is incredibly embarrassing. But.
- [19:35]
John Gabris
So I opened. I went to app store to search for Marvel Snap to be like, I should just add this. So I know I have it on my phone. And guess what? Instead of get, I have the open button, AKA I've already got it already.
- [19:48]
Josh Richmond
Well, it's ready to go for you.
- [19:49]
John Gabris
Perfect reminder to play. Oh, man. Yeah, I might. I'm. While we were talking, I was like, should I look back into Hearthstone? Like I literally thought about it because I'm like, that was kind of fun and it could be pretty cool to play. But what?
- [20:06]
Josh Richmond
Get.
- [20:06]
John Gabris
But we'll get back to all this stuff because we'll just keep track. And then from there it seems like someone realizes the, the one thing holding you back from these card games being fully a time suck is you need another person, whether it be Online or AI.
- [20:21]
Josh Richmond
Yes.
- [20:22]
John Gabris
And so then they go, well what about a deck building game where you don't have to play against. You know, it's not head to head and it's a dungeon crawler, whatever.
- [20:30]
Josh Richmond
So it's just solitaire.
- [20:32]
John Gabris
Yeah. So then the next game I kind of end up finding is probably is Slay the Spire and someone.
- [20:40]
Josh Richmond
The. The number one biggest influence on Doomsday is Slay the Spire. So the point you could, you could call it, you could. There's an entire genre of games now called Spire Likes which are like basically like doing the same thing as the Slay the Spire loop. And it's very much a spire like it's just, it's a whole genre unto itself now.
- [20:55]
John Gabris
Yeah, I know it's so. And it's a really fun one. And then like I found, I started getting to all these other Steam games and so many of them were card based. Dota Legends, Monster Train I really like.
- [21:08]
Josh Richmond
And Monster Train is really cool. I love Monster Train.
- [21:11]
John Gabris
It's. And, and these games are so fun and they combine. Like Slay the Spire game has gaining levels, relics, collecting cards, attributes. Damn it. It has like everything you like. It's almost like they're like we can't add any other elements of games that people like to this. Like they're like. And then it's, it's so simple and so amazing and so complex. Like these deck building games, these Spire Likes, they're so simple to get into.
- [21:42]
Josh Richmond
It's got all the things, it's got all the things that something like Hades have. Hades which you know, has that same sort of like you're constantly unlocking things and trying new weapons and stuff. But like there's none of, there's all the, all the fast twitch actiony stuff is gone. It's just the pure, it's just about upgrading the shit that it's been boiled down to its essence. It's, it's very addictive.
- [21:58]
John Gabris
And the, the crazy thing about playing like a handheld deck building game is. And this is like old man video game conversation stuff. But you can put it down.
- [22:09]
Josh Richmond
Yeah.
- [22:10]
John Gabris
Like it, it's addictive but you can put it down to go to the bathroom like because a deck game moves at the speed you want it to move whereas.
- [22:18]
Josh Richmond
Or pick it up just to go to the bathroom.
- [22:20]
John Gabris
That's more likely. Yeah, that's more likely. I, I've been, it's not a deck building game but I've been playing a lot of a game called Death Must Die and now I've gotten like pins and needles like three times this week playing on the toilet. And I'm like, I need to figure out. I have to. I literally said to my wife last night because I came out of the bathroom like limping, and she's like, is everything okay? And I said, I need to figure out my toilet video game posture. And she was like, you need to like. And I was like, yeah, no, you know what? I. This is all interior monologue. You don't need to hear any of this.
- [22:52]
Josh Richmond
No, why is that? Why is that too relatable? You have to like. You had to like set. That's. You had to set up like a little like now tripod or something.
- [22:57]
John Gabris
Like a little.
- [22:58]
Josh Richmond
A little shelf.
- [23:00]
John Gabris
I end up where the sink placement is in my tiny half bath. I end up leaning on like one elbow. It's kind of crooked and playing. And then that leg is just dead. When I stand up, I have to like wiggle it, like pick. Pick it up by its thigh and like that. It's like, like Pee wee Herman and 30 Rock. Paul Rubens.
- [23:21]
Josh Richmond
No, it's. The whole thing is that it's so you could, you could play around and then you put it down and you play another round and you just like flip fitted into all these little nooks and crannies of your day. So you're never. You never have to be bored anymore. You always have two minutes to just do a round of whatever it is. And to the point, I think now, this year, you know, like the most recent evolution is balitro, which has become like this huge said chasen game and doing a very similar thing.
- [23:46]
John Gabris
Dude, Balatro, great call. Because it's almost like a full circle moment because it is poker based as well. And it's sort of like the original card game. Yeah.
- [24:00]
Josh Richmond
Which makes it, I think, like a little bit more accessible to people who are like, oh, I've never even. Maybe you've never even played a dungeon crawler if you're like, you know, like, like all the moms out there. But I know what poker is.
- [24:09]
John Gabris
Or yeah, like, I love solitaire on my computer. And now I have like another.
- [24:12]
Josh Richmond
Oh, my God. My mom. My mom loved, loved computer solid like the Windows 95 computer solitaire. And now if you're like somebody who knows like that and these are. These are familiar looking cards. This becomes sort of like the gateway drug for. For those people.
- [24:25]
John Gabris
Oh, man, that is a pins and needles game too, man. It's such a fun. That's. That's. And that one like blew up, right? Like, people were like super impressed with that.
- [24:35]
Josh Richmond
Yeah, it's. It's like, I think it's like the been like the number one game on the phone app store since it got released a couple of months ago. It's. Yeah, it's. I believe that.
- [24:43]
John Gabris
And when everyone was talking about it, it sounded boring to me. And I like deck building games. I'm like, right, but. And I like gambling and I like poker. I play IRL poker all the time. And I'm like, what, what is this bullshit? This sounds like bullshit. And then I download it and I'm like, this is the most addict. I'm stuck on one. I can't beat the minus one. Excuse me? Minus one hand size plus one joker size. I can't beat that level. But for me it's always been like, I can do okay, I can do okay. And then I get like some random joker or some random tarot that like opens up my deck completely. And now it's like, yeah, oh, I just gotta build towards a straight and get the plus 80 and then multiplier and not get the.
- [25:28]
Josh Richmond
Exactly. You're on that deck and then you get the one that lets you make flushes with four cards. And then you're like, okay, wait, I could do this now. You just sometimes have to. The right. The right combination of things have to come together.
- [25:36]
John Gabris
Right, right. But that game is so fun, so simple, so addicting. It can be so difficult or so all of a sudden you're like, I'm making fucking 200,000 point hands and shit like that and have no idea how that.
- [25:51]
Josh Richmond
It's. I first of all just, it's both the joy of poker and also the joy of like, I just like seeing big numbers get even bigger. There's something to me of like, that's so satisfying of like, oh, wait, I debated. That was a billion. A million points. So wait, that was 10 billion points. Whoa. I wanted, I would just want. I just like, I just like big numbers. Big numbers go big.
- [26:08]
John Gabris
Yeah, big numbers go big is interesting because that is like a facet of the indie game or smaller game, whatever. Like, whatever you want to call it. Not major console games like the Bullet hell element. The high damage. Like, oh, yes. Six modifiers plus poison plus double damage. And it's my 10th hit of the round, which means I get. And you're like, yes. And you're just like, oh, I just proc'd. Or whatever the kids say, like, I just proc. 600 points. Or oh, shit, I've got. Oh, I'VE got like, Vampire Survivors is a bullet.
- [26:40]
Josh Richmond
Vampire Survivor is a really good example of that.
- [26:42]
John Gabris
Yeah.
- [26:43]
Josh Richmond
Oh, I've suddenly. I'm just like, I. I'm killing 10,000 enemies a second now. And I don't.
- [26:47]
John Gabris
And it's like. And they keep sending them and I can't wait. Like, these games are. They are really fun for that. And Hades has that too. As you're like, oh, shit. This is upgraded enough that I can fucking smoke people with this. Like, and. And Baltaro or how do you say, Balatron.
- [27:03]
Josh Richmond
I don't know if. I don't know if it's Balatro or Balatro. I've been saying Bala Tro, but according to the developer, either of those two is correct. But I don't. I can't speak for that.
- [27:10]
John Gabris
It was one of those games that I never got the name right. I would say, like Bala Taro Barrocho, I was saying. And it's like, it's phonetic at minimum. Like, there's no like. And I still can't even land that part. That is. And so that's like the map of car. And then, I mean, before all this is poker and blackjack and yeah, if you go far enough back, that's.
- [27:34]
Josh Richmond
That's. That's the season.
- [27:36]
John Gabris
Spades. All these games. I learned hearts. Like, I learned all those.
- [27:40]
Josh Richmond
My. My grand. My grandma still plays bridge. She loves bridge.
- [27:43]
John Gabris
That's awesome. I would love to learn an old. I kind of. This is making me want to learn like a two person card game to play with Tiff. Like, to just be like, all right, we're on vacation. Let's play spit, you know, or whatever. Like, probably something a little more. A little more grown up than spit.
- [28:00]
Josh Richmond
But more the most. The most boring game in the World War. You just keep flipping over cards. Oh, you win. Oh, I win.
- [28:06]
John Gabris
Oh, a tie. Let's put out three more. Yeah. You know, it's something I haven't thought about until this morning when I was chugging down my morning glass of AG1. Wouldn't this be a good gift for someone else? Like, whoa, yeah, you know, you have a friend in your life or, you know, a relative who's been trying to figure out their nutrition, figure out their health, and you could be like, hey, I heard my favorite podcaster, Johnny G. From High and Mighty, talking about the power of AG1 and how he loves it so much because it's just an easy, healthy step to do first thing in the morning. Now, I don't know if this is the case, but my wife literally just said to me, how are you? How does your brain function so early in the morning? And I don't know if it does, but I do wake up and get AG1 in shortly after waking up. So once that's in the system, you know, I think drinking a big old glass of anything will help your brain wake up. But add all the prebiotics and probiotics and all of the macronutrients and stuff that is inside of AG1 and it's got to give you a boost of energy. It. It feels really good. My poops are better, I'm less bloated, and heck, I might have to get AG1 for some people in my family, both my brothers are pretty much meatheads. We'll have to see how Secret Santa pans out. And if Secret Santa pans out the way we want it to, then boom shakalaka. I'm getting one of those guys a big old thing of AG1. You know, some people mix AG1 into their protein into a morning protein shake. Some throw it in a smoothie. Some me, I like ice cold water. Usually I have some water left over from the night before that's really cold because I went to bed with a bunch of ice in the glass. I'll pour that inside a little shaker with my AG1 with a scoop of AG1 and I'm kicking heiny first thing in the morning. So this holiday season, try AG1 for yourself or even a gift for someone special. It's the perfect time to focus on supporting your body with an easy and surprisingly delicious daily health drink. And that's why I've been partnering with AG1 for so long. And thank you AG1. As always, every week of November, AG1 will be running a special Black Friday offer for a free gift with your first subscription in addition to the welcome kit with vitamin D3 and K2. So make sure to check out drinkag1.com mighty to see what gift you can get this week. That's DrinkAg1D R I N K A G the number one dot com mighty to start your holiday season off on a healthier note While supplies last NordVPN what a way to safely access your favorite streams and other content from home. No matter where you go, just switch your virtual location. Now here's something I didn't even think about with using a VPN specifically nord you can find out like while shopping to see if the same product is cheaper in another region, access foreign E stores, apps and online auctions for a wider selection of Items that's nuts. NordVPN account protects up to 10 devices, so there's no need for separate ones. 7100 plus servers in 118 countries. It's super fast. NORDVPN is one of the fastest VPNs out there and it's easy to use. Connect with One Click or enable Auto Connect for the classic Zero Click protection. Now that is pretty exciting. And you know, what other reasons do you need a VPN for? You can access your favorite streams and other content from home no matter where you go, access apps and websites from other countries, access to social media and stuff not available due to censorship, depending where you are. So get your tushy on NordVPN. So go to NordVPN.com mighty that's n o r d v p n dot com m I g h t y NordVPN.com mighty I've been playing all these card games forever and it's so fun that this genre has come up as a. And it's so funny to imagine, like I remember, you know, like video games, eating, magic, the gatherings, lunch a little, you know, where you're like. And then when you start to realize like, oh, I'm playing a video version of a card game and it's fun just because the interface is easier and the overhead is lower and the ability to get. And then all of a sudden you'd be like, what? I don't want to play a card game on my switch or my Steam deck, But it's like, no, you can be a thief who gets poison and shivs, or you could be a warrior and you get. And then all sudden you're like, wait a minute, I can't believe someone thought to combine these two.
- [33:13]
Josh Richmond
Because like the simplicity of it in some ways makes it like faster and easier and better. Weirdly. At least, at least, I mean, not better, but like at least there's something that it's capturing that like a more graphically detailed game isn't going to capture.
- [33:25]
John Gabris
Right? And there's something, there's something of like it's a deck building game, right? So you start with less. And it's sort of like the game's complexity grows with you as you play. Kind of, you're like, oh, I smoked the first three guys. The fourth guy, fourth baddie, I intercounter. Whoops my ass. It's like, okay, what am I doing wrong in the first three?
- [33:43]
Josh Richmond
Yeah, exactly. There is. And I think I've seen this get boiled down even further than that. I have you Heard of a game called Luck Be a Landlord? Do you know what this game is?
- [33:52]
John Gabris
No. I like the name though.
- [33:54]
Josh Richmond
So it's very similar to this genre of game we're talking about, but instead of drafting cards, you have a slot machine and you're drafting symbols that go on your slot machine. So you could be like, okay, I'm going to pick from three symbols. Like I'm going to add a seven to the slot machine and then pull the lever so it increases my chances of the seven coming up when my number comes up. So over time you get to make your slot machine more powerful because different combinations of symbols or whatever are more likely to come up. And you're like this, this is now. Now this is just as now. This is just pure Vegas gambling now.
- [34:28]
John Gabris
Right now I got three flaming sevens in my deck, I hope.
- [34:31]
Josh Richmond
Exactly. But it just feels even more like, oh, I'm just, I'm picking up symbol and then I'm pulling the lever. And now I'm just like the, the people stuck at the penny slots at a casino, essentially. But it's, it's somehow, even, even more addictive somehow.
- [34:43]
John Gabris
Oh, that's fucking awesome. I'll take a look at that. Luck Be a Landlord. Yeah, that is a fun. A funny name too, but yet the idea of the deck building makes the game simpler. And, and there's probably, there's probably a real name for this, but like with these rogue light games, like, or Rogue Rogue, like Death Must Die, even some of the bullet hell ones like vampire survivors and stuff, you. The game kind of teaches you how to play it.
- [35:14]
Josh Richmond
Yeah.
- [35:15]
John Gabris
Like, which I, which I always found. And Doom and Doomsday. Your game has this portion too where it's like based on how easy the first rounds are and you don't have artifacts yet or you don't have crazy cards in your deck. So you're like, okay, like using this, the spire example, strike, defend, make, vulnerable are my three choices. Now. Now all of a sudden you're like poison. Oh, bouncing flask. All of a sudden you're like adding to. And you're like, oh, I want to do more poison stuff. Oh, I want to get stuff that supports how much I'm poisoning people.
- [35:44]
Josh Richmond
Yeah, exactly. You, you discover a new key, like a new mechanic of like, oh, this seems cool. Or there are other things like this that are going to make this even better. And then the more you play, you're like, oh, wait, this is a new thing I can unlock that does that.
- [35:55]
John Gabris
And then you get the relic that's like Every time they get poisoned, they actually take two poison and you're like.
- [35:59]
Josh Richmond
Oh, Bob, yeah, now I'm rolling. That's what I needed.
- [36:03]
John Gabris
Yeah. And there's something really exciting about that because in addition to the idea of like, games attract a certain type, like, video games attract a certain type of person that wants to play video game, these games with like, sort of elaborate rules and cards attract another type of person. But then there's this element of like, becoming more efficient or better at the game as you add cards to your deck, which could be within one game or in the, or in, in the, in a lot of these, like, oh, you gained a level. You unlocked these three cards that didn't previously exist for you, and now these are in play in the game for both you.
- [36:42]
Josh Richmond
Right. So now you have even more options to get it. It absolutely is that, like that, that you're, you're achieving things, you're leveling up, you're getting better somehow. That's, that, that's what keeps the, the dopamine loop going.
- [36:52]
John Gabris
And then you are creating these sort of like, I can't think of like, specializations or like your gameplay style of like, oh, shit, yeah, I'm going for all zero mana, zero energy weapons. I got shivs, I got blade dance. Oh, shit. This, this relic adds three points. It's like, oh, FTL lets you draw cards. Oh, this lets you draw eight cards. Get rid of everyone that doesn't cause zero. And it's like you're building and then all of a sudden you start realizing like, oh, I need more stuff that support. And on the next time you play.
- [37:27]
Josh Richmond
I love the FTL build. I draw every time I, I can draft turbo, I draft turbo. I'm just like, I know this card will make my deck worse. It's subways. But I just love it. I just want more mana all the time.
- [37:36]
John Gabris
That's such a fun one too. I, I love playing the, the green. The assassin character.
- [37:42]
Josh Richmond
And going for the shivs of the ships are very cool.
- [37:44]
John Gabris
Yeah, go. And then you get that wrist bracer thing that adds like four damage to zero point. Like, ah. But maybe the next time you play, you don't get any of the. The zero and you're like, oh, oh, it's lightning. Okay, uh, okay to, oh, thermodynamics. Yeah, add that. Electrodynamics. Rather add that.
- [38:05]
Josh Richmond
Right? Because if every, if every time you played you're like, oh, good, I have 10 ships again, this. It would be boring. It's the fact that you have to change your Strategy every time that makes you want to. Want to keep picking it up.
- [38:14]
John Gabris
Yeah. So it's like, even if, like, in Magic, the card game, you'll maybe know your deck eventually, and you're like, this is what I have. But then when you play a game where your deck is randomized, like, and you add new cards slowly but surely throughout the game, you're like, fuck. And then, like, it gets to a point where you're like, I don't want any more cards because I don't want, like, to dilute this deck. Like, there's so many elements to it that. That are really. That really add to it. And now. Now you're playing, like, your strategy for these games has to evolve within each game, inside of each game. You're like, okay, so I can't play the same way I played yesterday. And Slay the Spire does this even better with having multiple character archetypes to choose from, too.
- [38:56]
Josh Richmond
Yeah. So that game.
- [38:58]
John Gabris
That game is checks. Yeah.
- [39:00]
Josh Richmond
I keep coming back to Slay the Spire because so many different verses of it happened made, but it really does feel like they really just kind of got something magic. Right. In terms of the balance of that and the. And the simplicity of that to pick up Slay the Spire two finally coming in, like, six months or something. I think. I cannot wait.
- [39:14]
John Gabris
It's gonna.
- [39:15]
Josh Richmond
I'm very curious.
- [39:15]
John Gabris
Ruin my life. Yeah, I know. Hades is another game I really love. Not exactly. Not in the same wheelhouse, but Hades 2 is in beta right now, too.
- [39:24]
Josh Richmond
Yeah, no, I. I'm. I'm waiting till it gets out of beta. I'm kind of saving it for myself as a treat of, like, I'm gonna. I'm gonna wait until this is the full version of this game, and then I'm really gonna really dig it.
- [39:32]
John Gabris
I. I had to say the same thing to myself because Apodaco is like, Dude, Hades 2 is out. I know you love Hades. I'm like, oh, he's. And he's like, well, it's not full. I'm like, well, I. I'm gonna wait. I'm gonna wait.
- [39:42]
Josh Richmond
I'm waiting.
- [39:43]
John Gabris
Oh, hell yeah.
- [39:45]
Josh Richmond
But, yeah, so. So Balatro came out earlier this year, like, when I was midway through developing my own version of this, and I was a little bit like, the double reaction of, oh, shit, this is going to. This kind of steals my thunder. This. I feel like this game's going to kind of eat my lunch because it's so polished and so good.
- [40:03]
John Gabris
It steals it steps. It steals your thunder and steals your Time from developing.
- [40:08]
Josh Richmond
It steals my time because I just start playing that game all the time.
- [40:11]
John Gabris
But it's a really well made game.
- [40:13]
Josh Richmond
Fuck, it's too. Fuck it. I, yeah, but, but also I think it's, I think it's going to bring a lot more people to this style of game and maybe even a lot of like, you know, a lot of both. A lot of casual gamers who haven't tried stuff like this and also a lot of more hardcore gamers who maybe kind of dismiss this whole genre who are like, wait, there's a, there's, there's something really cool and sticky here.
- [40:33]
John Gabris
Yeah.
- [40:34]
Josh Richmond
So I hope, I hope, I hope people who are getting into this kind of thing will like be inspired to be like, okay, now I'm going to try all the weird indie versions of it and eventually discover my thing.
- [40:41]
John Gabris
Oh, that's really fun. Yeah, I guess I hadn't thought about that because it did take Slay the Spire to teach me, you know, or like Hearthstone, whatever to teach me. I'm like, oh, it sounds dumb to play a card game on the computer or on your phone or on your console even, but it, it makes a lot of sense. And, and the thing about a card game is it moves at a certain pace. If you're not playing like a speed round, each card kind of has what it does on it. You know what I mean? It's like you don't have to have any knowledge. Like sometimes when you're like, wait, what, what do I do here? It's like, no, click on that. You have to mine that. You have to right click to mine it. Oh, you, you didn't set up a guard post here. You're. You're dead. Or whatever. With card games, it's like you can sit there and read each one. Like playing against AI if you're not playing against someone online, there's always something.
- [41:29]
Josh Richmond
To read to tell you what to do. For sure. Yes. You're never going to feel, you're never going to feel completely stuck of like, now what? You're just. I, I even, I again, I even tried to make Doomsday simpler than that of like, here, listen, there's two types of cards. You could drag it to this kind of slot or drag it to this kind of slot. That's it. There's really nothing else to do. You will, you will figure this out.
- [41:49]
John Gabris
I would say things that I like most about Doomsday were the simplicity element of it, but also the kind of art element which I think matches. It's you know, it's. It's sort of illustrated in a way that kind of matches the simplicity of the game. It like. Like does it, you know, it lines up.
- [42:07]
Josh Richmond
Yeah. Oh, my God. It's. It's very much going for sort kind of like a. Like a Saturday morning cartoon style. A little bit dexterous. Laboratory, like silly, silly bad scientist, basically. Yeah. Flynn Nicholas did all the art. Really, really, really amazing. Cartoonist, animator. Really, really, I think, clicked something into place once. Once we started, like commissioning the illustrations for the different bad guys and stuff.
- [42:26]
John Gabris
It looks. It looks awesome. It really. It really has. It. Well, you know what? It not only looks good, it has its own look. You know what I mean? Like, it has like a themed look where it's not like this card is weirdly painted and this card is weirdly like eight bit or whatever, you know?
- [42:41]
Josh Richmond
Yeah. For a while it really felt like every new indie game was like, we're doing an eight bit thing. We're doing kind of a nostalgic pixel art thing. And I think that's been so mined to death at this point. Yeah. Like, you gotta. You gotta find. You gotta find your own artistic take. Well, that's kind of the other.
- [42:54]
John Gabris
That's kind of what rules about Slay the Spire. Sorry, Josh. What kind of rules about Slay the Spire too, is that they have their own kind of style. Style. And their own.
- [43:01]
Josh Richmond
Yeah, it's very much their own style. But yeah, no, the other main thing I was thinking of making Doomsday was like, both for my sake as somebody who's not that good at making games yet, and for the sake of a lot of the people who I know will be playing, who are probably at least to start going to be just like a lot of friends of mine who maybe are not as obsessed with this genre as I am. I feel like for both of those reasons, it serves me to really keep this simple. Because, like.
- [43:26]
John Gabris
Yeah, to make an. Like. And make a fucking gateway drug game. Like, you know.
- [43:31]
Josh Richmond
Exactly. Because, like, if I have. I have tried to introduce friends to Magic the Gathering before. It almost always goes badly. Like there's. There's so much shit to keep track of at this point. Like, it could get so complex.
- [43:43]
John Gabris
Yeah. I've been wanting to get back into it. I played when I went to Gen Con last year, the Tabletop gaming convention. I played a lot of Commander with, with my buddy who I played magic with in 1994. He still plays and he's like, just get a Commander deck. And I could. We can play in the hotel and so we were playing Commander, and I'm like, oh, this is actually kind of fun and quicker and a little less overwhelming because you just kind of buy a deck. And I'm like, wait. And I'm like, do I want to get back into magic? And then I saw. I had Jarvis on. On my pod. Jarvis Johnson, a YouTube guy, creator on my podcast. And we. He was talking about magic, and he got far. He was so into it again and, like, buying all this shit that it, like, hit me as a cautionary tale. And I was just like, maybe. I. Maybe let me look up MTG online or maybe. But this conversation is making me want to check back in with. Well, I also got addicted to. And this is not a card game, but I also got addicted to Heroes of the Storm, which was kind of like a League of Legends Blizzard game, and I got addicted to that for a long time.
- [44:49]
Josh Richmond
Bad, bad, bad. Yeah. No, I've got to be so careful about what I sink my time into this. I cannot. I cannot get back into magic. It's. It's just. It's too much. But. But also, like, even Commander, like, Commander is just like, it. It. I. You know, those games could take an hour, and somebody will have a turn like, oh, I just blew up the entire board. And then I made a 100, 100 flying monster, and now the game is over. And you're like, what just happened? What the fuck?
- [45:12]
John Gabris
Oh, Fuck. I spent 40 minutes hoping to get this guy set up, and now I am. And. And I'm already fucking dying.
- [45:19]
Josh Richmond
Yeah. So, yeah, I was just like, all right, Kind of keep it simple, stupid. Not too many mechanics, not too many systems. And, yeah, again, Marvel Snap, a game I love, is, like, not a lot of systems. Kind of seems almost too simple at first. And then you're like, there's kind of a surprising amount of depth here. That's really what I was going for, is like, there is more strategy than you would think, considering how simple the setup looks. That's. So ideally, it seems like it's not too intimidating to pick up and do a couple rounds, and then you're like, oh, wait, I can kind of customize my own deck and pick up some weird things and make it function a little differently. That's really the sweet spot.
- [45:55]
John Gabris
Now that I know I have it on my phone, too. Next time I forget my Steam deck and I'm stuck in traffic, or not traffic, sorry. Stuck on, like, waiting for something, I will fucking bust out. Marvel Snap. And I'm just one thing. I stopped doing a little While ago was even before I got a Steam deck is I stopped getting iOS games because I started, like, it's. I always have my phone on me, and then I'll be, like, waiting for a podcast to start, and I'm playing fucking some game on my phone, and I'm like, this is too easy. It's too. I mean, it's like, I already have Instagram where I could just look at beautiful women exercising or cute dogs or delicious food at any time I want. Now adding a game that, like, soaks up my attention even more is like.
- [46:42]
Josh Richmond
Personally, I. Personally, I think. I think the move is to uninstall Instagram and install Marvel Snap. Just like from. Unplug from the social networks and just. Just play fucking card games, brother.
- [46:52]
John Gabris
You might have the right idea. You might have the fucking right idea. Also, this is making me kind of want to go on ebay, buy old collectible card games that were. That were like, weird IPs, and see if, like, a couple of nerds who like games and rules can fucking be like, all right, let's see what Land of the Lost the card collectible card.
- [47:12]
Josh Richmond
Game is like or some shit.
- [47:14]
John Gabris
Like, because we were trying to find weird, that's how we ended up with X Files. We were like, how the fuck can this card game work? It was so fucking complicated. We thought Marvel Overpower was going to be the game changer because we were like, loving card games. And then we're like, of course loving Marvel. At the time in the 90s was just like, elite level comic books, and we were like the X Men cartoon, like, collect the Marvel Masterpiece cards. Like, all this shit made sense. Overpower came out. We were like, fuck yeah, dude. Imagine playing magic. But instead of, like a crawl worm, you can throw out Gambit. And we were like, oh, that'd be fucking sick. And then you got to play the game, right? It's so much more complicated and so much less.
- [47:53]
Josh Richmond
Exactly. They just were like, they didn't have real game designers working on these things a lot of times. Sometimes. Sometimes they'll literally just, like, take the board from, like, the Game of Life or something and Reskin and just put some X Men shit on it. Yes, I. I think I could. I. I think this is a little bit of Video Archives lore. I could share the. So the. The. The room where we taped the Video Archives podcast with Quentin Tarantino and Roger Avery. The big vhs.
- [48:16]
John Gabris
If you guys. If you guys like podcasts or movie podcasts or Quentin or Roger in any way, I highly recommend giving. Giving it A listen. I have a hard time listening to movie podcasts where I haven't seen the movie and QT and Roger will get me to. I'll listen to their pod regardless. And I end up with like my notes app open and 16 more movies I have to see.
- [48:37]
Josh Richmond
My favorite thing about that show is they will talk about movies that I think literally nobody else in the thousands of movie podcasts that exist would ever touch.
- [48:44]
John Gabris
Right. Their love of TV made for TV movies and like vintage Italian action movies. You know what I mean? I'm like, oh, fuck these guys. But sorry, back to the lore.
- [48:54]
Josh Richmond
So we taped that show in the middle of Quentin's giant like VHS library room that has all of these old titles from his video archives days. But people don't know that right next to that room there's a room that's just shelves full of board games and specifically a lot of IP driven board games from like the the 60s, 70s, 80s, all bit like, you know, like Magnum PI the board game or like.
- [49:19]
John Gabris
You know, whatever that was like peak reskinning of like it's, it's just Chutes and Ladders, but it's got fucking TC in the chopper or whatever. Yeah.
- [49:32]
Josh Richmond
And some of them are like, some of them I've looked up on like boardgamegeekgeek.com later like, like I've heard like Alien the card game or the board game is like, oh, this is supposed to be good. And it's like rare. There's some like really, really rare collectible games in that collection. Some really cool shit. But a lot of those games are trash. But some of them are really cool.
- [49:48]
John Gabris
Oh, that makes total sense for them to be, for QT to be into that too. Makes a lot of sense. The. So I've been to Gen Con a few times, which is the tabletop convention in Indianapolis. I go because I love D and D. But when you walk around the game floor, people are playing some of we. There's a like a board game library section at the where you can just like oh for you know, $8 you can be in this library for several hours. And. And we were trying these random ass board games that were so encumbered to try to learn and stuff. But we were like this is kind of like fun and active activating like problem solving of like figuring out how to play a game. And the fun thing is if you are a game player, you have like a broad knowledge of how games work, whether it's video or whatever, you can kind of unwrap like okay, I See what they're going for here? This is like how you play this game. But some of them are so unwieldy. But you just remind me, you'd walk past and there'd be people playing like 12 people, super excited. Playing some fucking IP game that you can't wrap your head like, you're like, it's like, you know, oh my God, you never played Predator the home game. And you're like, what?
- [51:02]
Josh Richmond
And it's like 12 people.
- [51:04]
John Gabris
Yeah. And they're people in line to play. But my favorite thing to see at these conventions is like two 60 to 70 year old men playing some elaborate war. Recreation game. Recreation game where it's just like, they have like, it's like a Vietnam jungle built and there's like tanks and like choppers and you're like, what the fuck? And they're like. And then you're like, oh, that looks cool. And then all of a sudden you see they're rolling dice and have charts out and like rulers to measure movement. All of a sudden you're like, oh my God, this is a game. When you're a kid, you can just have these toys and do whatever you want. Then you realize, shit, they're playing like analog X Com with.
- [51:44]
Josh Richmond
Yeah, no, this is World War II ships.
- [51:46]
John Gabris
Yeah.
- [51:47]
Josh Richmond
To me, the ultimate level of geek gamer that I've never quite gotten to. But I have a lot of admiration for the people who go this far. The people who paint their own figurines like that, like the Warhammer figurine painters. That's, that's, that's a whole, a whole other level.
- [52:00]
John Gabris
I don't know how far away I am. Like, I'm not too far away from getting into Warhammer because it's always been like what felt like DD for people with money because it just had more stuff going on, at least to me. But now I see a lot of people talking about the lore behind Warhammer. And of course I follow friend of the show Ify Wadaway on all social media and he's constantly talking about Warhammer and it's starting to appeal to me in a way. I love to paint my D and D metal miniatures back in the day. But you would only have to buy like one or two at a time.
- [52:33]
Josh Richmond
Right? You just have like your one character that's different than like I have an art that I.
- [52:37]
John Gabris
My space marines are all have purple armor because I've been working on it for years. But that's the kind of shit I want. I want like a fucking game. I want A house with a game room and like, it's also my screening room or some shit. Like, it would be such a fucking treat. I. We talk about this on Action Boys a lot. But the, the animation company Titmouse, who does a lot of, A lot of everyone's favorite shows.
- [53:00]
Josh Richmond
Oh, sure, yeah.
- [53:01]
John Gabris
Star Trek, Next Generation and tons of shit. In their lobby they have two conversion vans, like those old school, like hippie vans with the ladder on the back and the tire. And one of them, I don't know what the other one does. I'm sure it does something. But one of them, you open one door to it and you can walk through it and out the other door into a DND room with like a huge table and books and things on the shelves and like torch sconces and like, it's one of those gaming tables that has like all like the drawers for rolling and all that shit. It's, it's.
- [53:35]
Josh Richmond
That's, that's beautiful.
- [53:37]
John Gabris
Yeah, exactly.
- [53:38]
Josh Richmond
Where it's like you're like in, you're in the dungeon and like, it's like the table looks like it's made out of like a log or something.
- [53:44]
John Gabris
Yeah, yeah, I would, I would, that would be what I would spend my, like, the idea that like whoever is the, you know, top tier owner of Titmouse or whoever planned that is like, that's the kind of shit I would do if I had a successful company would be like, we got to have a D and D room. You know, we got to have a.
- [53:59]
Josh Richmond
Board game, no takes. That's like, that's like a dot com era perk. Like, oh, we have like the foosball table next to the D and D room. You don't see that as much anymore. I miss those.
- [54:09]
John Gabris
Yeah, no, it turns out a lot of employee perks have dwindled in almost every field.
- [54:14]
Josh Richmond
Yeah.
- [54:17]
John Gabris
If you're lucky to be an employee.
- [54:19]
Josh Richmond
Your employee perk is a salary.
- [54:21]
John Gabris
Yeah, yeah. Your perk is the fact that you are an employee. Like that. Isn't that enough? You fucking greedy pigs. We just want your blood and gristle for the capitalism machine. Get on board, bitch. Do you play any board games? I haven't been a board game guy for like, sometimes you'll go to someone's house and they'll be like, let's play this board game. Like, I played Settlers a few times and really enjoyed myself, but I never stuck with it. Or I never stuck with Settlers is.
- [54:53]
Josh Richmond
Really fun, but no, it's. For me, it is pure. It is usually a. I am Going over to a friend's house because they're having a board game night occasionally. Not a thing that I've been doing, like, seriously. But like the. When I was. When I was in 10th grade and this is sometime after like the first time I got really into Magic the Gathering. And this is again, not even really technically a board game because I was just a very, you know, indoor online kid. But there was a version of Risk called World of War that you could play in your browser for free.
- [55:24]
John Gabris
Yes. One at a time. And you would make a move and then you would get an email that it was your turn.
- [55:31]
Josh Richmond
It was a little bit like chess by mail, where it was like, you, you know, you're like, I'm invading Australia. And then you wait 10 minutes and then you got to get something back that's like, yeah, I've decided to counter your move or whatever.
- [55:42]
John Gabris
Yes.
- [55:43]
Josh Richmond
No, I took days.
- [55:44]
John Gabris
I we it. It invaded. And I don't know if this is the same thing, but we had something like that that absolutely invaded UCB. We were all playing like it was like 8 bit just above DOS risk on your phone where you.
- [56:00]
Josh Richmond
Oh yeah, it was super, super lo fi. It was just. Just a really basic ass HTML site is the version I remember. But I got, I got. This is my basically my first experience getting really into forums was getting really obsessed with the World of War forum and becoming a guy who posts there and makes custom maps and would troll people about their own custom maps and just be a real little asshole about it. But this was maybe in some ways the peak of my board game era was just getting really into Internet Explorer Risk and flaming people about it constantly.
- [56:36]
John Gabris
Yeah, you know what? When I went from Monopoly to Risk and Castle Risk and eventually a little axis and allies with the real nerdy friends. When I made that leap to the. And I was into those games and their complexity. It took dnd for me to leave board games in the past because it was like I was loving all these board games and they were like, in. But then Dungeon Dragons was like, oh, it's like make your own board game as you go and it's storytelling and it's fantasy and I'm like, this hits harder. And like all that other gaming fell off big time. But I used to fucking love Risk. I used to absolutely love Risk. And I was never even really.
- [57:16]
Josh Richmond
It says something about, I think the different ways we branch that you got more into like these storytelling and acting side. And I'm like, I just want to make big numbers and attack people with Math. Basically, I'm like this. It probably does say something.
- [57:26]
John Gabris
Well, yeah. And then it also kind of says something that I am hosting podcasts and you are making them.
- [57:31]
Josh Richmond
Like there is like that split problem 100%.
- [57:34]
John Gabris
You could probably figure them. You could probably figure those out. Like, if this is true, then what else is true? Continue down that path. Josh, thank you so much for coming on High and Mighty and talking to me. I mean, about something we text about constantly.
- [57:49]
Josh Richmond
Are you kidding? Thank you for giving me a chance to talk for 60 Minutes about literally my, my love of deck building and magic. The gathering is something like I felt like this deep sense of almost shame about for, for years.
- [58:00]
John Gabris
Understandable, relatable, understandable.
- [58:01]
Josh Richmond
Like I was like, this is the nerdiest thing I've been to. I can't believe I'm spending my time doing this. I can't tell any of my current friends about it. They would like wedgie me as a 25 year old. And now I feel like it's a little bit more socially acceptable. But now I'm very happy to have a whole platform to talk about it and a game that I made where I could really, really, truly indulge in it and let other people indulge too. I'm very happy about that.
- [58:21]
John Gabris
And we'll have a link to the game in the show notes. But if you want to, let's talk a little bit about Doomsday before you get out of here. You don't have to do a sales pitch, but it's a deck building game. I am one of you're in it.
- [58:34]
Josh Richmond
You and you and Data Wickens are the Aquarius squad.
- [58:37]
John Gabris
I honored. Honored. I look great and I feel great. The artist is, Artist is awesome. The gameplay is, is super fun. But tell, tell, tell these people where they can get it and more about it and all that jazz.
- [58:51]
Josh Richmond
Of course. And thank you. No, it's, it's called Doomsday if you, you can get it on Steam on Mac and PC and you can get it on the, the Apple App Store for iPhone and iPad. On that one. It's called Dubai Doomsday. A mad science game to distinguish it from all the other Doomsdays. But that's the game. It's the one that looks very cartoony and colorful. You are a mad scientist and you're trying to build a giant Doomsday weapon. You're like your giant spider robot mounted laser that you're using to take over the world. But you are making that laser out of cards, different component cards and different action cards you're using to make your laser more powerful and you can. All the stuff we've been talking about, you can kind of level up over time and unlock new cards and get artifacts that make you super cyan powerful and all this stuff. And it's. Yeah. I think if you've never tried a game like this before, if this conversation has gotten you interested, I actually think it's a pretty good gateway drug, like we said, that would get you into this kind of thing. That's a little less intimidating than something like magic. And yeah, I hope you'd have fun with it.
- [59:54]
John Gabris
It is funny, like when you, when you're well versed in games when you're not simple, sounds like it could be like, oh, a simple game. But then when you're. When you're been playing a lot of games and you play one that is well made and simple, you're like, oh, fuck, this is special. Like, you know what I mean? Like, I didn't. It's not derogatory to be simple. Or.
- [60:16]
Josh Richmond
I got my first real review of this game a couple days ago and they called it a fast paced, small but punchy deck builder. And I'm like, yeah, that's what I want. Small and punchy. That's me.
- [60:26]
John Gabris
Yeah. I was about to say, couldn't imagine why you. Who. For listeners who maybe never seen Josh in person. Not a large man. Not a large man, but he's spongy.
- [60:37]
Josh Richmond
Punching a bump away for.
- [60:39]
John Gabris
For fuck's sake. Indeed. I think when I retweeted Sangeeta's thing, I said like, tiny, weird. Genius is how I referred to you. And I've been calling you that since we started working together on Raised by tv. But you truly.
- [60:54]
Josh Richmond
I think you said at the very beginning of this podcast.
- [60:56]
John Gabris
Yeah, I think I. You gotta throw genius in there or else I'm just being an asshole. Doomsday. Get it wherever you fucking get games. I have it on Steam. Is it Steam deck compatible or is that something. That's a good.
- [61:14]
Josh Richmond
That's a great question. I could not confirm that it is yet. There's a good chance that it is, but I haven't really had a chance to test it because I don't have a Steam deck yet. But. But I'm working on it. Maybe for. Maybe for some. Some future dlc.
- [61:24]
John Gabris
Yeah, I'll test it for you. I'll let you know. But get the game. Open up. Show notes right now and get the game. And also listen to the kind of stuff that that. The stuff Josh works on, like, for example, the Gino Lombardo show, which is now available monthly on Scott Aukerman's CBB World. I'm going to jump on and then video archives podcast. Wherever you get podcasts. That's another podcast Josh produces that we talked about, hosted by Quentin Tarantino and Roger Avery. And it's awesome. It's. You know, of my. Of my top five. It's in my top five movie podcasts, maybe top three of. And I listen to.
- [62:03]
Josh Richmond
I absolutely love working on that show. It is. It is one of a kind. No other movie show like it. It's. It's a blast.
- [62:08]
John Gabris
It's unreal. It's so cool, man. I'm so happy for you, Josh. Get this fucking game, people. I gave you my plugs. That's all. Bye, shitheads. That was a Hitgun podcast.
- [62:34]
Josh Richmond
In a.
- [62:35]
John Gabris
Part of the world where there are no rules. Holy. Holy. Guys, I'm so pumped. I definitely have now watched this since I rented it on VHS in 92. Strangers united by the threat of death. We got all the major players. Seagal vl. Vl. Vladimir Putin is a good man. Arnold, you're. Come. Give it to me. I need you to cream pie me now. Stal. Uncle.
- [62:55]
Josh Richmond
I love this movie.
- [62:56]
John Gabris
I see it's got a lot of heart. You're mentally irregular. Now, somewhere, somehow, someone's going to pay. I would love for my wife to, like, see me rip a guy's throat out. But they didn't count on one thing. This movie's insane. That's how you know it's a good movie. You have to do almost all the work yourself to figure it out.
- [63:18]
Josh Richmond
Well, there's a fantasy component. There's some sword fighting.
- [63:21]
John Gabris
There's some lightning. There's a new game in town. You wake up after a few years, and then you.
- [63:31]
Josh Richmond
Even though you are anymore.
- [63:32]
John Gabris
We're gonna be making Terminators. We're gonna make a really great deal with the Xenomorphs.
- [63:37]
Josh Richmond
What? I don't hate him, but I pity.
- [63:39]
John Gabris
Yes, I understand. This is now the 20th ending of the movie. I am dark.
- [63:43]
Josh Richmond
I'm your dad.
- [63:46]
John Gabris
Action Boys. Boys will be boys. Subscribe here for bonus content and more free stuff from behind the paywall to get new episodes. Become a patron at Actionboys Biz.
- [64:02]
Josh Richmond
Do it.
- [64:03]
John Gabris
Do it. Come on. Do it now.