High-Impact Growth Podcast: "Harnessing Somatic Intelligence: Tools and Practices for Leading in Uncertainty"

Host: Jonathan Jackson & Amie Vaccaro (Dimagi)
Guest: Jason Morris (Executive Coach)
Date: July 23, 2024

Overview

In this insightful episode, Dimagi's CEO Jonathan Jackson and co-host Amie Vaccaro sit down with Jason Morris, a coach with deep experience in social impact leadership. The conversation explores how leaders—especially in the high-stakes, resource-stretched world of global health, development, and social enterprise—can benefit from harnessing somatic intelligence. The trio dives into body-based leadership practices, the science and personal journeys behind burnout and neuroadrenal fatigue, tools like the Enneagram and Positive Intelligence, and practical strategies for creating more resilient, compassionate, and effective leadership—especially in times of uncertainty.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Jason Morris’s Journey to Coaching

• Formerly an investment banker, Jason was drawn into international development after 9/11, traveling in the Global South and later joining Room to Read, where rapid growth led to his own burnout.
• He later worked on the funder side with the Peery Foundation, supporting entrepreneurs globally and noting the universal struggles of leadership, especially burnout and work-life balance ([03:00]).
• Jason’s own experience with neuroadrenal fatigue was the catalyst for focusing on coaching and somatic intelligence.

Notable Quote:

“I got into this loop where I needed anxiety and stress to help me focus and it would help me perform, and I would get praise for that performance, which was another key piece of the puzzle... But eventually, I started getting brain fatigue. I started feeling more depressed and anxious, and it felt like my cup was always full.”
— Jason Morris [08:00]

2. Burnout, Neuroadrenal Fatigue, and Leadership Vulnerability

• Burnout is complex—not just about being "tired" but can be physiological, requiring both recognition and healing ([07:33-11:19]).
• Sharing personal experiences with burnout can create space and permission for others in the sector to honestly acknowledge their own struggles.
• Naming what you’re experiencing is a critical first step: “...being able to talk about it... whatever emotions coming up, whatever feeling, whatever uncertainty, it's all welcome because it's all part of the human experience and we need to first face it and acknowledge it in order to then do some alchemy...” — Jason Morris [10:30]

3. Somatic Intelligence: Why the Body Matters in Leadership

• Leaders often overestimate the power of rational thinking, underestimating the wisdom of the body ([12:25-18:53]).
• Physical sensations of agitation (tightness, cortisol spikes) are early warning signs—“I could physically feel it. I could almost feel my cortisol going up. I could feel myself being that cupful mindset.” — Jonathan Jackson [12:10]
• Somatic coaching focuses attention on body cues, regulation, and capacity over pure performance.
• In high-stakes leadership, the “interpersonal work” and “holding space” for others are more critical than raw output ([15:56]).

Notable Quote:

“I realized that there was an opportunity for me to leverage my own physical body and better regulate myself and be more attuned to taking care of myself and my own regulation... If I'm in a rough agitated place and then I meet with my direct reports, meeting's not going to go great.”
— Amie Vaccaro [15:00]

4. Overcoming Mind-Centric Leadership

• The myth of "I think, therefore I am" pervades leadership thinking, but neuroscience now confirms the body often signals the brain, not the other way around ([18:53-21:59]).
• “It's not my brain getting angry and then telling my body to then respond... It's my body sensing something's wrong and then it's screwing up my brain.” — Jonathan Jackson [20:45]
• Leaders need tools to “flip out of that default mindset”—accepting that uncertainty is uncomfortable but unavoidable.

5. Redefining Leadership in Uncertainty

• Leadership presence can calm and regulate the team as a whole, thanks to “mirror neurons” ([21:59]).
• “We’re also in this period where we’re examining what makes strong leaders... quote-unquote softer components of leadership that are being proven to be so essential.”
  — Jason Morris [22:20]

6. The Enneagram Tool for Self-Awareness and Growth

• The Enneagram as a framework goes beyond surface behaviors to illuminate core motivations and fears ([25:44-32:41]).
• It aids leaders in recognizing both “their strengths and the challenge areas and the places that I stubbed my toe or hit my head against the wall over and over... these unconscious ways of working that bubble up.” — Jason Morris [27:30]
• Under stress, old patterns re-emerge; new challenges require new approaches, not old strengths alone.

Notable Quote:

“What’s gotten us to where we are and made us successful isn’t going to get us where we want to go. And we want to acknowledge and affirm all of the strengths and the good qualities and the positive aspects that have gotten us to this point. We need to celebrate that and then acknowledge, okay, there’s limitations here.”
— Jason Morris [25:44]

7. Practical Tools & Practices for Self-Regulation

• Micro-practices are powerful:
  • “Find Your Feet”: Literally feel your feet on the ground as a way to come out of the head and into the present moment ([32:50–38:37]).
  • Breathwork: Open-mouth inhales and vocal exhales to tap the parasympathetic nervous system.
  • Short, consistent meditation: Even 3–5 minutes a day, consistency over duration, with patience for gradual compounding effects.
• Label what’s in the room: call out agitation, fear, or stuckness; invite a pause or physical movement (breathing, stretching, even dancing) to disrupt negative energy ([40:40–42:24]).
• Above-the-line/Below-the-line: Open vs. closed mindset; strive to re-center before continuing a tough conversation.

Notable Moment:

“I have some clients that [when stuck in meetings] put on Taylor Swift’s ‘Shake It Off’ and they dance to that. And that will definitely move the energy.”
— Jason Morris [41:05]

8. Challenges with Habits and Practicing Self-Compassion

• “Forming new habits is incredibly difficult... even if you’re totally bought into the theory, the practice, the benefits, just hard, hard to shift how we show up.” — Jonathan Jackson [45:36]
• Self-compassion is essential: recognize backsliding is normal, and bring yourself back gently ([47:15–50:37]).
• Motivation is strengthened when you connect new habits to your "why": the mission, your team, or your own well-being.

9. Overcoming Perfectionism and The Inner Critic

• Mindfulness teachers recommend a “start again” attitude—compounding returns, not overnight wins ([47:50]).
• Link to Kristin Neff’s work on self-compassion, Jack Kornfield’s teachings: treat yourself as you would a puppy, with patience and kindness.
• Positive Intelligence framework: build “PQ reps” (short sensory mindfulness moments) to break cycles of self-sabotage ([56:46]).

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Unlearning Mind-Only Leadership:

  “We’re sold this false narrative… since Descartes said ‘I think therefore I am’... and we forget that the prefrontal cortex is young and the body has... many more years of experience. And so we’ve cut off that.”
  — Jason Morris [16:34]

• On Resetting in the Moment:

  “The most important times to kind of take a check is when you’re in a heated conversation… If you can call that time out and say, look, let’s regroup and do that...”
  — Jonathan Jackson [38:37]

• On Noticing Your Inner Critic:

  “Even practicing self compassion is a iterative keep coming back to it. Don’t judge ourselves when we can’t do it, which is easier said than done.”
  — Jason Morris [54:02]

• On Returning to Practice:

  “You don’t quit when you stop. You quit when you don’t start again.”
  — Jonathan Jackson quoting a running coach [52:24]

• On the Power of Pause:

  “Let’s label what’s in the room. And that’s as simple as saying, let’s pause for a sec. I’m sensing a lot of agitation or… fear, and then can we invite a shift or can we invite curiosity?”
  — Jason Morris [41:05]

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Jason’s Journey and Burnout: [01:28] – [11:19]
• Somatic Intelligence & Body-Mind Connection: [12:25] – [21:59]
• Redefining Leadership in Uncertainty: [21:59] – [23:22]
• Enneagram and Personality Patterns: [25:44] – [32:41]
• Practical Somatic Tools & Meeting Tips: [32:41] – [44:19]
• Forming Habits & Self-Compassion: [45:32] – [50:37]
• Positive Intelligence and Mindfulness Micro-Practices: [56:46] – [59:46]

Practical Takeaways for Leaders

• Start small: Build somatic/mindful habits with micro-practices, not heroic efforts.
• Normalize struggle: Everyone backslides; self-compassion is key.
• Make it a team thing: Don’t be afraid to introduce movement, pausing, and check-ins—even virtually.
• Use tools: Enneagram, Positive Intelligence, and awareness/mindfulness practices help reveal and shift old patterns.
• Be patient: Growth in somatic intelligence and new leadership styles pays compounding returns over time.

(For further reference, see links in show notes for Jason’s recommended authors and frameworks: Kristin Neff—Self Compassion, Sharon Salzberg, Tara Brach, Jack Kornfield, Shirzad Chamine—Positive Intelligence, the Enneagram, and more.)