High-Impact Growth: [Pods Fight Poverty Re-Air] How GiveDirectly is Changing Aid

Podcast Host: Dimagi (Amie Vaccaro & Jonathan Jackson)
Guests: Stella Luke (Regional Director, GiveDirectly), Erin Quinn (Senior Director of Customer Success, Dimagi)
Date: December 18, 2025

Episode Overview

This episode, re-aired as part of the “Pods Fight Poverty” campaign, explores the transformative power of unconditional cash transfers in global aid, focusing on the work of GiveDirectly. Host Amie Vaccaro and Jonathan Jackson are joined by GiveDirectly's Regional Director Stella Luke and Dimagi’s Erin Quinn to discuss evidence, skepticism, technology’s role, and the values behind simply giving cash to people living in extreme poverty—and trusting them to make the best decisions for themselves.

The conversation challenges traditional top-down aid strategies, offers data-driven insights about cash’s impact, and highlights how digital platforms and telco partnerships are revolutionizing cash-based interventions.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Stella Luke’s Global Development Journey

[03:11]

• Background: From programming and human rights law to leading major tech-driven health interventions at Dimagi, then shifting to aid at GiveDirectly.
• Big Picture: “At GiveDirectly, we believe that recipients deserve the agency and the autonomy to decide for themselves how cash should be spent and how they would like to lift themselves out of poverty.” (Stella Luke, 03:55)
• Anecdote: Stella recalls a health project in Benin where giving prescriptions wasn’t enough if mothers couldn’t afford to pay for medicines: “I saw very much the role that technology can play in frontline healthcare and also the role that cash can play... to enable people to achieve the socioeconomic determinants of health.” (05:34)

The Core Question: Why Not Cash?

[08:19]

• Cash as a Life Aid: Stella compares cash to a multipurpose tool—immediate, direct, and flexible, able to fill all kinds of gaps that development programs might miss.
• Uptake Stats: “In the humanitarian space, we estimate [cash] is now about 20% of assistance; in development, less than 5%, and for unconditional cash, as low as 2%.” (08:52)
• Limitations: Cash can’t build clinics or improve teacher quality, but it helps people access existing services. The goal: Move the conversation from “why cash?” to “why not cash?”

Evidence for Impact

[11:39]

• RCTs and Findings in Kenya:
  • Lump sum vs. flow payments: Lump sums resulted in “massive increase in income generating activities, major investments in livelihoods, long term sticky results.”
  • Sustained income: Even four years later, recipients' income increased by 38%.
  • Spillover effects: Improvements in nutrition, reduced intimate partner violence, and broader community economic activity.
• Quote: “The relative stickiness, particularly for things like income generation... is quite good.” (Stella Luke, 12:25)

GiveDirectly’s Program Models

[13:27]

• Flagship Model: Large lump sums (equivalent of ~$1,000) delivered to every household in the poorest areas.
  • Perspective: “It would be the equivalent of if you or I... somebody came to our door and give us $30,000 or an even larger amount...” (13:51)
• Diverse Approaches: Also runs flow-payment models and innovative mobile-based targeting during crises, enrolling recipients via telco data, SMS, and mobile money accounts—sometimes within hours or days.

Addressing Skepticism and Objections

[15:42]

• “Waste” Myth: Over 30 studies show people spend LESS on temptation goods (alcohol, tobacco, gambling) after receiving cash. “Any question about this has already been resoundingly answered by the evidence.” (Stella Luke, 16:28)
• Inflation Concerns: A major Kenyan study found minimal inflation from large cash infusions.
• Targeting and Equity: Programs saturate entire villages to avoid intra-community resentment, but borders between funded/unfunded villages remain an ongoing challenge.

Memorable Quote:
“Our response to [the ‘teach a man to fish’ proverb] is that maybe the man doesn’t want to fish. Maybe he wants to do something else... Let him decide." (Stella Luke, 21:29)

Conditional vs. Unconditional Cash

[24:31]

• Conditional = If you care only about a specific outcome, it works; but unconditional is more holistic, supporting dignity, multi-dimensional aspirations, and reducing administrative overhead.
• Industry Trends: Shift towards more unrestricted, unconditional cash in humanitarian settings, though the global development sector lags behind.

Human-Centered Delivery & Technology’s Role

[27:44], [29:57]

• Community Sensitization (“barraza”): Essential introductory meetings with communities to build trust, clarify intentions, combat misconceptions (“We’ve been called satanists... or scammers in others” – Stella Luke, 28:45)
• Tech at GiveDirectly:
  • Mobile Money: Ensures rapid, secure transfers.
  • Telco Data: Used to identify poor populations based on mobile usage patterns.
  • CommCare Implementation: Rolled out to enable frontline officers to census, enroll, and follow up on recipients, with localization, GPS monitoring, API integration, and robust offline functionality crucial in remote environments.
• Impact Example: CommCare supports field officers “climbing up and down hills... taking boats, going on bridges, piggybacking over rivers of mud in rainy season...” to reach the most isolated families. (35:09)

Navigating Industry Uncertainty

[37:17]

• Current Challenges: Suspension or pausing of programs due to sector-wide uncertainty (referencing shifts or pauses in aid funding), with GiveDirectly staying optimistic:
  “We remain hopeful and optimistic that cash... has a role to play in a highly dynamic and fluid environment because it’s cost effective, because it’s multipurpose, because it can be relevant in a lot of ways.” (Stella Luke, 37:45)

The Power of Individual Donors

[39:20]

• Funding Breakdown: About half of GiveDirectly’s funding comes from individuals—“admittedly, a good chunk... high net worth or ultra high net worth,” but with a substantial base from regular people.
• Personal Accountability: “My partner donated to GiveDirectly which really puts the pressure on me... to be quite judicious... holding my feet to the fire.” (Stella Luke, 39:54)

Notable Quotes & Moments

• On agency and dignity:
  “From a values perspective... we think it’s the right thing to do... We sit in this hangout meeting... so far away from the realities of people’s lives... One of my colleagues in Rwanda [said], if a cash transfer can help someone pay the medical bills to save their father’s life, how much is that worth?” (Stella Luke, 21:29)

• On evidence for cash’s effectiveness:
  “There’s about 30 studies... [showing] people actually spend less on ‘temptation goods’ after receiving transfers.” (Stella Luke, 15:53)

• On cash as a default:
  “Mostly I think what we want to see is a movement away from why cash? to something about why not cash?” (Stella Luke, 09:54)

• On technology’s role:
  “One of the things exciting about CommCare is the ability to, in a much more streamlined way, copy and reuse... [plus] offline functionality—our field officers are climbing up and down hills... [in] hard to reach places...” (Stella Luke, 34:28 & 35:09)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 03:11 – Stella Luke’s background & GiveDirectly’s philosophy
• 08:19 – Why cash? Uptake and role in development & humanitarian sectors
• 11:39 – Evidence of impact: RCTs, lump sum vs. flow, community effects
• 13:27 – GiveDirectly’s models and innovative tech approaches
• 15:42 – Addressing skepticism, myths, concerns on spending and inflation
• 17:41 – Social impacts: neighboring villages, targeting, and equity
• 20:05 – Conditionality and the rationale for unconditional aid
• 24:31 – Conditional vs. unconditional: industry shifts and values
• 29:57 – Technology enablement: mobile money, telco data, CommCare
• 37:17 – Navigating uncertainty in a shifting aid landscape
• 39:20 – The significance of individual donors

Tone & Takeaways

• Candid, evidence-driven, and values-centered.
• Focuses on recipient dignity, empowerment, and trusting communities’ judgment.
• Champions practical innovation but recognizes aid’s political and logistical complexities.
• Has hope and realism about current sector turbulence.

Final Reflections from Host Amie Vaccaro ([40:43]):

• Cash is powerful and versatile: Evidence-backed and proven across domains.
• Unconditional aid reflects values: Dignity and trust at the core.
• Technology is a game changer: Tools like CommCare are transforming delivery and scale.
• The gap remains: Cash is rigorously studied but sorely underutilized—making up just 2% of global development, compared to 20% in emergency aid.
• Aid is changing, and cash will be central to its future.

For more, visit: https://dimagi.com/podcast/