Episode 01: Friendly Universe

Summary

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High Strange: Season 2, Episode 1 – “Friendly Universe”

Release Date: February 6, 2026
Podcast: High Strange (Tenderfoot TV & iHeartPodcasts)
Host: Payne Lindsay

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Overview

The first episode of High Strange’s second season, titled “Friendly Universe,” sets the tone for a deeper, more inquisitive exploration of UFOs/UAPs (Unidentified Aerial Phenomena), their impact on witnesses, and the shifting landscape of government and scientific responses. Payne Lindsay resumes his signature blend of skepticism and curiosity—pushing past binaries of belief and disbelief to grapple with the complex, sometimes disturbing reality of alleged encounters, physical evidence, emotional fallout, and unsettling official ambiguity.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Whitley Strieber’s Encounter: Revisiting a Landmark Experience

• Introduction to Strieber: Payne Lindsay interviews Whitley Strieber, whose 1985 encounter (famously described in his book “Communion”) remains one of the most compelling and controversial abduction stories.
• Description of the Night (03:35, 37:42):
  • Strieber recounts noises, a sensation of being surrounded by people despite being in his bedroom, a feeling of immobility, and the terrifying sight of large black eyes:
    • “I saw these big black eyes peering at me from about two feet away. I remembered those faces. And they weren’t human.” (04:13, 39:17)
  • He describes being in a strange room (“arch door and a little black window”), observing entities resembling “gigantic insects” and feeling genuine terror.
  • Under hypnosis, Strieber’s memories become clearer—recounting both communication (“What can we do to help you? Stop screaming.” (41:55)) and a physical procedure with a needle, leaving lasting pain and trauma.
  • After the event, Strieber’s wife notes his odd behavior; a medical exam reveals a physical injury (rectal tear) and substantial distress—but psychological tests find him mentally normal.
    • “It was not a head trip at all. It was very physical. The physical injuries were real.” (49:34)

2. Host Reflection: The Modern Attention Crisis and UFO Normalization

• Lindsay muses on living amid constant notification overload, comparing UFO headlines to any other mundane scroll on your phone.
  • “At this point, this season is about something bigger and stranger. It’s about why one of the biggest revelations in human history lands like an item on a grocery list. A shrug, a big whoopty doo.” (08:58)
• He argues that the real strangeness may now lie within us: Our capacity to dismiss, absorb, and move on from world-altering concepts with apathy.

3. The 2017 New York Times Revelations & Shifting Official Tone

• Leslie Keene & Brian Bender’s Roles:
  • Keene explains the long, gradual build-up and the eventual “major shift” when the U.S. government admitted the authenticity of Navy UFO videos and created legal frameworks for whistleblowers.
    • “Nothing really shifting. And then all of a sudden, major shift happens. ... They’re just not saying it like that.” (10:36)
• The show underscores the extent to which the U.S. government has incrementally conceded “something” is happening, while stopping short of outright alien confirmation.

4. Congressional Testimony: David Grusch and the New Era of Whistleblowers

• Context & Testimony (13:10–21:00):
  • David Grusch, former intelligence officer, testifies under oath about secret government UAP programs, crash retrievals, non-human “biologics,” intimidation of witnesses, and physical harm suffered by some individuals:
    • “I was informed in the course of my official duties of a multi decade UAP crash retrieval and reverse engineering program.” (15:26)
    • “Biologics came with some of these recoveries.” (20:32)
    • “[The government] is operating with secrecy above congressional oversight with regards to UAPs.” (14:24)
• Grusch claims some colleagues were injured by UAPs or as a result of cover‐ups, and that there have been credible threats and intimidation:
  • “Some of the tactics they used to hurt me, both professionally and personally. To be quite frank.” (15:55)
  • “Yes, personally.” (16:32) – On being in fear for his life.

5. Science and the “Weird Bucket”: Gary Nolan’s Investigations

• Gary Nolan, Stanford Scientist:
  • Approached by the CIA and military to analyze unexplained neurological injuries in personnel who reported close encounters with UAPs:
    • “They had white matter disease in the brain. Inarguable. They didn’t have it one day, two weeks later, they did.” (31:19)
  • Nolan is candid about only trusting hard data, but finds the biological evidence (MRI changes, symptoms) difficult to dismiss, regardless of the provenance.
    • “As a scientist, the argument is never about the conclusion. The argument is about is the data real and was it collected correctly?” (29:44)
  • “Paranormal” and “science”:
    • “All science is paranormal explained. There’s something here that is interacting with us. That’s my belief.” (34:31)

6. Reflections on Hostility, Friendliness, and Meaning

• Lindsay closes with a philosophical meditation inspired by Einstein’s question: Is the universe friendly or hostile?
  • “If the universe is friendly, then what you do matters. ... Not because you’ll be rewarded, because you’re participating in something that responds. I’d like to choose the friendly universe, not because it’s comforting, but because it demands more from me.” (35:04)

7. Whitley Strieber’s Consistency & Aftermath

• Strieber’s narrative is returned to at episode’s end: Notable for its consistency and the physical aftermath (his neighbor, a retired state trooper, admits seeing part of the event but being too terrified to intervene).
  • “I saw that happen, and I nearly dropped my teeth. ... The fact that I ran.” (50:57)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Modern Apathy:
  • “Disclosure didn’t happen. It got push notifications instead. And somehow we’re just bored now. One more headline, just another scroll.” – Payne Lindsay (08:00)
• On Government Secrecy:
  • “They’re just not saying it like that. ... People now can reveal things that they’ve had to keep secret in the past.” – Leslie Keene (10:36)
• On Witness Harm:
  • “[Intimidation] ... Both professionally and personally. To be quite frank.” – David Grusch (15:55)
• On Non-Human Materials:
  • “Biologics came with some of these recoveries.” – David Grusch (20:32)
• On “Paranormal” Science:
  • “All science is paranormal explained. There’s something here that is interacting with us.” – Gary Nolan (34:31)
• On Belief:
  • “The argument is never about the conclusion. The argument is about is the data real and was it collected correctly?” – Gary Nolan (29:44)
• Strieber’s Hypnotic Recall:
  • “What can we do to help you? Stop screaming.” – Whitley Strieber (41:55)
• Host’s Final Reflection:
  • “A friendly universe requires responsibility. If the universe is friendly, then what you do matters.” – Payne Lindsay (35:04)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 03:35 & 37:42: Whitley Strieber’s detailed account of the 1985 encounter
• 08:00 – 09:32: Host commentary on modern attention, apathy, and the banality of disclosure
• 10:15 – 12:57: Leslie Keene on the evolution of government/UFO openness and whistleblower protections
• 13:10 – 21:24: Congressional hearing, David Grusch whistleblower testimony: crash programs, harm, non-human materials
• 27:51 – 34:31: Gary Nolan’s data-driven account of studying witness injuries and “paranormal” science
• 35:04: Payne Lindsay’s Einstein-inspired reflection on choosing a “friendly universe”
• 37:42 – 50:57: Whitley Strieber’s extended recollection of his encounter, hypnosis, physical aftereffects, and neighbor’s corroboration

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Conclusion

“Friendly Universe” pushes listeners past asking if UFOs are real, instead asking: Why do these revelations, no matter how dramatic, seem to just bounce off us? The episode weaves together chilling first-person testimony, the evolving government stance, scientific discomfort with unexplained harm, and an overarching call for intellectual responsibility. High Strange promises a season focused not on easy answers—but on chasing the story until it makes sense, or until it gets “too strange to ignore.”

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Transcript

[Payne Lindsay]

This is an iHeart podcast.

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[Whitley Strieber]

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[Payne Lindsay]

Visit your nearby Lowe's on Colorado street in Kennewick.

[David Charles Grusch]

Hey Tenderfoot listeners, we want to hear from you. We just launched a survey and want to know about your favorite shows, your merch requests and what you'd like to Listen to in 2026. Give us the gift of your feedback and you might be one of our winners. To get free merch and a $100Amazon gift card, head over to Tenderfoot TV Survey for more. Thanks again. Now here's the show.

[Narrator / Host (Payne Lindsay)]

High Strange is released every Friday and brought to you absolutely free. But for ad, free listening, exclusive bonuses and early access to episodes, subscribe to Tenderfoot [e-mail] or on Apple Podcasts. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are solely those of the podcast author or individuals participating in the podcast and do not represent those of iHeartRadio, Tenderfoot TV or their employees. This episode contains references to sexual assault and sexual violence. Listener discretion is advised. Nice to meet you.

[Whitley Strieber]

Right over here.

[Narrator / Host (Payne Lindsay)]

I know you're short on time. I'll just get right to it. Can you paint a picture for me, starting with that first night?

[Whitley Strieber]

I will do it. December 26, 1985. I had a nice day with my family. Went to bed and in the middle of the night became aware of the fact that there were noises around me. Felt like I was in a room full of people. And I was supposed to be in my bedroom alone with my wife. Was just something wrong. I couldn't get up, couldn't rise off the bed. And I realized I'm not on my bed. I saw these big black eyes peering at me from about two feet away. I remembered those faces. And they weren't human.

[Narrator / Host (Payne Lindsay)]

This morning I woke up, grabbed my phone before my eyes were even open. Notifications, texts, alerts. I should just go back to sleep. But I don't. Weather app says we're fine. The news app says we're doomed. Calendar app is already mad at me. Internal reminder. Stand up. Drink some water. Inhale for five seconds. Exhale for seven. I need some coffee. $23 to get it delivered? Sure, why not? Time to shower. Business on top, Sweatpants on the bottom. I went to my office, which is also my house, which is also just my laptop now. Zoom calls. One with cameras on, One with cameras off. A few emails. A few written by me. A few written by machines. Auto reply, Instagram. TikTok. Nah, back to Instagram. Hey Chat. Does this sound insane? Someone's launching a podcast. Someone's quitting social media. Me too. I'll be back in an hour. Did she see my story? My iPhone tells me my screen time is concerning. Do not disturb stays on 24. 7. I'm in control of my own destiny. Lunchtime. Nothing in the fridge. I'll just eat a big dinner. Pause to reply to a message. I'll forget the second I send it. Scroll again. Lol. So funny. My algorithm is getting weird. Is anyone checking this stuff? Back to work. I have more tabs open than my brain can handle. I should really clean my desktop. This meeting should have been an email. This email should have been a thought. You kept to yourself. Left the office, which was my couch. Picked up some dinner. Time for a phone call. That bartender does make a good Manhattan, though. I'll have one. Time to go to sleep. Or should I browse Netflix for an hour? First started a movie, stopped at 12 minutes in. Now I'm annoyed and fully awake. How is it only Tuesday? I really need to go to sleep. For real this time. Good night. We all have a version of this. A routine, a pattern, a loop if you're not careful. A hamster wheel with better wi fi work. Relationships, money, health, politics, algorithms. Deciding what we should care about today. But I do my own research. No, you don't. There's always something filling the space. Always noise, always motion. Always something new. And always the same old thing. We're being told something insane. That the universe is massive, maybe even infinite. That there's planets like ours everywhere. That intelligent life elsewhere is statistically a fact. That pilots are seeing things they can't explain. That the government studies UFOs but calls them UAPs now. I like the first one better. That they don't know what they are, but they know they're not aliens. Wait, what? Disclosure didn't happen. It got push notifications instead. And somehow we're just bored now. One more headline, just another scroll. It's not that the question isn't big enough. It's that our brains are exhausted. Even if aliens exist, even if we're not alone, even if the universe is crawling with something we can't see. Either way, my alarm's set for tomorrow morning. And either way, I still have shit to do. This season isn't about asking if we're alone. That question's tired and the answers are boring. At this point, this season is about something bigger and stranger. It's about why one of the biggest revelations in human history lands like an item on a grocery list. A shrug, a big whoopty doo. Because maybe the strangest thing now isn't what's out there. It's us. Okay. Let's do this. Welcome to season two of High Strange.

[Payne Lindsay]

The US Navy has finally acknowledged that videos appearing to show UFOs flying through the air are real. Videos they're talking about were recorded years ago by fighter pilots. Then in 2017, they were made public by the New York Times. Times.

[Narrator / Host (Payne Lindsay)]

While refreshing our feeds, something loud happened. Actually, a lot of loud things happened.

[Leslie Keene]

Images of that rotating thing captured by US Navy aircraft sensors, locking in on the target like a 40 foot long Tic Tac, maneuvering rapidly and changing direction. I never thought I'd get to the place we're in now. I never thought 2017 would ever happen. Then I'd be part of it. Are you kidding me?

[Narrator / Host (Payne Lindsay)]

This is Leslie Keene. She helped break the big New York Times story in 2017. That was nine years ago. This interview is from 2022. At the time, it almost sounded like she was getting ahead of herself, like she was talking things up. Listening back now, it's clear she wasn't predicting things, she was tracking it.

[Leslie Keene]

Nothing really shifting. And then all of a sudden, major shift happens. I'm waiting for the moment where they would be willing to say, it's not from planet Earth, it's not made by human hands. They have not been willing to shut that door, tell the world that this is something not made by humans, which they know. They're just not saying it like that. I mean, that might sound pretty weird to people, but I've been studying it for 22 years and I've watched the whole evolution, what people are saying, what they're not saying. I've gotten access to a lot of insiders. Legislation that's about to pass, giving protection by the Congress to whistleblowers to be able to go before Congress and tell them what they know. Protection is coming for people. If there is going to be something released regarding materials that they may have, parts of a crashed saucer, or who knows what. These people now can reveal things that they've had to keep secret in the past.

[Narrator / Host (Payne Lindsay)]

In the years that followed, everything she hinted at all started happening. Legal protections were passed. Whistleblowers were cleared to testify.

[Whitley Strieber]

I don't have any evidence or proof.

[David Charles Grusch]

The government has some UFO materials in their custody. But enough people from that world, the Pentagon intelligence agencies, say they've heard about this stuff.

[Narrator / Host (Payne Lindsay)]

This is Brian Bender, who also helped break the massive 2017 UFO story.

[David Charles Grusch]

I even asked the question in a Pentagon briefing. Some of us reporters were brought in.

[Whitley Strieber]

And my question was, are you also.

[David Charles Grusch]

Looking to see whether there might have been secret programs in the past, Multiple layers of secrecy that might reveal things about UFOs, crash materials that even people in the Pentagon today might not have any idea about.

[Leslie Keene]

I'm just really interested in seeing what happens. I just want to watch it all happen.

[Whitley Strieber]

These are questions worth asking.

[Narrator / Host (Payne Lindsay)]

And then something crazy happened. A public congressional hearing on unidentified anomalous phenomena.

[Whitley Strieber]

The subcommittee hearing on unidentified anomalous Phenomena or UAPS will come to order.

[Public Investing Ad Voice]

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[Whitley Strieber]

Without objection, the Chair may declare a recess at any time.

[Narrator / Host (Payne Lindsay)]

I flew to the Capitol and was there in person. Security was tight, phones were checked, badges everywhere. The whole vibe of the room felt heavier than it should have.

[Payne Lindsay]

Do I answer where the UFOs are?

[Whitley Strieber]

Good morning and welcome to the most exciting subcommittee in Congress this week, the Subcommittee on National Security of the Border and Foreign affairs for discussion of unidentified Anomalous phenomenon. I'd like to thank the witnesses on the panel today for sharing their stories on how they've engaged UAPs, which has brought attention to this matter.

[David Charles Grusch]

Mr. Chairman, ranking members and Congressmen, thank you. I'm happy to be here. This is an important issue and I'm grateful for your time. My name is David Charles Grush.

[Narrator / Host (Payne Lindsay)]

Enter David Grush. This is when the tone took a sharp turn. This wasn't a podcaster. This wasn't some guy chasing attention.

[David Charles Grusch]

I was an intelligence officer for 14 years. I was my agency's co lead in unidentified Anomalous Phenomena and trans Medium Object Analysis as well as reporting to the UAP task force through a PPD19 urgent concern filing. I became a whistleblower following concerning reports from multiple esteemed and credentialed current and former military and intelligence community individuals that the US Government is operating with secrecy above congressional oversight with regards to uaps. My testimony is based on information I've been given by individuals with a long standing track record of legitimacy and service to this country.

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A whistleblower who formerly worked on the Defense Department's UAP task force, David Grusch, claims he was denied access to information on a government UFO crash retrieval program.

[David Charles Grusch]

I was informed in the course of my official duties of a multi decade UAP crash retrieval and reverse engineering program. Mr. Gr, do you believe that our government is in possession of UAPs? Absolutely. Based on interviewing over 40 witnesses over four years.

[Whitley Strieber]

Did you have any personal knowledge of people who've been harmed or injured in efforts to cover up or conceal these extraterrestrial technology?

[David Charles Grusch]

Yes, personally. It was very brutal and very unfortunate. Some of the tactics they used to hurt me, both professionally and personally. To be quite frank.

[Whitley Strieber]

Had anyone been murdered that you know of or have heard of?

[David Charles Grusch]

I have to be careful asking that question. I directed people with that knowledge to the appropriate authorities.

[Leslie Keene]

In the last couple of years, have you had incidences that have caused you to be in fear for your life for addressing these issues?

[David Charles Grusch]

Yes, personally.

[Whitley Strieber]

Okay.

[Leslie Keene]

I just want everyone to note that he's coming forward in fear of his Life to put in perspective, if they were really not scared about this information coming out, why would someone be intimidated like that?

[Whitley Strieber]

Has the US government become aware of actual evidence of extraterrestrial, otherwise unexplained forms of intelligence? And if so, when do you think this first occurred?

[David Charles Grusch]

I like to use the term non human. I don't like to denote origin. Certainly previously 1930s, I'm pretty skeptical. I don't trust anything in this town and I think that's because I'm from Missouri.

[Payne Lindsay]

You've got to show me.

[David Charles Grusch]

With that being said, there's been a lot of things that have been said and so I want to get down to some specifics. At one point you had said that there has been harmful activity or aggressive activity. Has any of the activity been aggressive, been hostile? I know of multiple colleagues of mine that got physically injured by UAPs or by people within the federal government. Okay, so there has been activity by alien or non human technology and or beings that has caused harm to humans. I can't get into the specifics in an open environment, at least the activity that I personally witnessed. Not to be very careful here.

[Whitley Strieber]

What.

[David Charles Grusch]

I personally witnessed myself and my wife was very disturbing. My view has been that we are billions of light years away from any other system. And the concept that an alien species that's technologically advanced enough to travel billions of light years gets here and somehow is incompetent enough to not survive Earth or crashes is something that I find a little bit far fetched. You have mentioned that there's interdimensional potential. Could you expound on that? I answer your first question, and I'm here as a fact witness, an expert. But I will give you a theoretical framework at least to work off, regardless of your level of sentience. Right. You know, planes crash, cars crash. N number of sorties, however high a small percentage, are going to end in mission failure, fool, as we say in the Air Force. And then in terms of multi dimensionality, that kind of thing. The framework that I'm familiar with, for example, is something called the holographic principle. It derives itself from general relativity and quantum mechanics. If you want to imagine 3D objects such as yourself casting a shadow onto a 2D surface, that's the holographic principle. So you can be projected, quasi projected from higher dimensional space, things showing up at certain areas and disabling our capabilities, which is disheartening. And for us, I mean, like I said, it completely disabled the radar on the aircraft when it tried to do. And the only way we could see it is passively, which is how he got that image. So I think that's a. That's a concern on what are these doing? Not only how they operate, but their capabilities inside to do things like this.

[Leslie Keene]

You've stated that the government is a possession of potentially non human spacecraft. Based on your experience and extensive conversations with experts, do you believe our government has made contact with intelligent extraterrestrials?

[David Charles Grusch]

Something I can't discuss in public setting.

[Leslie Keene]

If you believe we have crashed craft, do we have the bodies of the pilots who piloted this craft?

[David Charles Grusch]

As I've stated publicly already in my news station interview, biologics came with some of these recoveries.

[Whitley Strieber]

Yeah.

[Leslie Keene]

Were they, I guess, human or non human Biologics?

[David Charles Grusch]

Non human. And that was the assessment of people with direct knowledge on the program I talked to that are currently still in program.

[Narrator / Host (Payne Lindsay)]

This was a former intelligence officer speaking under penalty of law. Information was being hidden above congressional oversight. When he said the words crash retrieval program, the room went quiet and the questions shifted, not just about what these things are, but whether people have been hurt.

[Leslie Keene]

Congress's job is going to be to see what it can do with the information and what it can verify. A lot of these very sensitive programs, there's no paper trail over the next year or two, how is that going to play out? How many people will come forward and will there be repercussions against them for coming forward under the law, they're protected. You know, you just don't know what might happen to them. Because certainly there are some people within the defense world who don't want people to talk about this. A lot of the witnesses hate trying to keep this secret. Right? To have to sit on this for years and years and years, and it's changed your life and it's caused tension and problems for you. And some people have nightmares or ptsd. I just hope it works out.

[David Charles Grusch]

The government is notorious for reinventing the wheel. I've been a reporter long enough to.

[Narrator / Host (Payne Lindsay)]

Come across a lot of stories where.

[David Charles Grusch]

I'm like, why does this sound familiar?

[Whitley Strieber]

Where there might have been a program.

[David Charles Grusch]

There might have been a report, there might have been something. But it was 20, 30 years ago. It's because they tried the same damn thing 20, 30 years ago. You know, you can't discount some of that in this topic, too.

[Narrator / Host (Payne Lindsay)]

The guy who was in charge of.

[David Charles Grusch]

That retired and didn't pass it along to the next guy or gal.

[Whitley Strieber]

It doesn't exist anymore.

[David Charles Grusch]

It's going to be really hard for anyone in the government to hide this stuff.

[Whitley Strieber]

Anymore.

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[Payne Lindsay]

That the objects are not secret American.

[Public Investing Ad Voice]

Weapons and reiterates the Air Force's obligation.

[Payne Lindsay]

To investigate credible observers of relatively incredible things.

[Narrator / Host (Payne Lindsay)]

Even if you remove aliens altogether and just look at this objectively, if even a fraction of this is true, then something unknown is interacting with humans and causing actual harm. Under oath, David Grusch claimed people were physically injured, intimidated, feared for their lives. This, for me, is when the whole thing stops being a belief debate. That's not a conspiracy question, that's a science problem. And science is exactly where I went next.

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[Whitley Strieber]

Right?

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[Narrator / Host (Payne Lindsay)]

So we shouldn't get the parachute pants.

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[Payne Lindsay]

Discover is accepted at 99% of places.

[Whitley Strieber]

That take credit cards nationwide, based on.

[Payne Lindsay]

The February 2025 Nielsen report.

[Jacob Goldstein]

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For the show comes from Public, the investing platform for those who take it seriously. On public, you can build a multi asset portfolio of stocks, bonds, options, crypto and now generated assets which allow you to turn any idea into an investable index. With AI it all starts with your prompt. From renewable energy companies with high free cash flow flow to semiconductor suppliers growing revenue over 20% year over year. You can literally type any prompt and put the AI to work. It screens thousands of stocks, builds a one of a kind index and lets you back test it against the S&P 500. Then you can invest in a few clicks. Generated assets are like ETFs with infinite possibilities, completely customizable and based on your thesis, not someone else's. Go to public.com podcast and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com podcast paid for by Public Investing Brokerage Services by Open to the Public Investing Inc. Member FINRA and SIPC Advisory Services by Public Advisors, llc. SEC Registered Advisor Generated Assets is an interactive analysis tool. Output is for informational purposes only and is not an investment recommendation or advice. Complete Disclosures available at public.comdisclosures Now I'd.

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[Narrator / Host (Payne Lindsay)]

Flying saucers have invaded our planet. The whole world is under attack. Can it survive?

[Payne Lindsay]

I knew from the moment I was thinking anything that I wanted to be a scientist before I guess I even knew what a scientist was.

[Narrator / Host (Payne Lindsay)]

This is Gary Nolan. He's not a UFO guy, he's a data guy. A real scientist who lives in results, measurements and what can and cannot be explained.

[Payne Lindsay]

Being able to take things and put them together in ways that people hadn't thought of before and make something new. I look for a need. I say, okay, well that's what we can't do today and that's what we want to do. You see this and you see that and you put it together and go, I can make this tinkering today. Retrospect, I generally call it the inevitable. If I were to take your blood, there's neutrophils, macrophages, NK cells, T cells, B cells. You could only look at a few cell types at a time. So the Field was crying out for an ability to do more data. This guy at the University of Toronto had invented this instrument called cytof. His name was Scott Tanner. He was a developer of an instrument, but didn't know exactly how to apply it. He came to me and said, look, I know that you're good at turning ideas into reality. Can you help me turn this into a tool for immunologists? That instrument still sits at the top of the food chain, reading multiple events per cell. But even then I was already thinking, maybe there's another way I can do something, get more data. So what I had done was found a way to scale up the numbers of things you can measure and tag at the same time, hundreds of proteins and thousands of genes at a time. It was literally a patent idea. I remember just freezing and going, where the fuck did that idea just come from?

[Narrator / Host (Payne Lindsay)]

Boom.

[Payne Lindsay]

Like the whole idea, it felt like, was just like downloaded into my head. I mean, honest to God, who and what you think you are is a very thin sheen of consciousness across your brain. You know, the so called executive function of what you are. Meanwhile, there's all these things going on inside of your brain that are actually running the show. As a scientist, the argument is never about the conclusion. The argument is about is the data real and was it collected correctly?

[Narrator / Host (Payne Lindsay)]

When he talks about the brain, he's not speculating. One day, many years ago, Gary's life and career would take a very bizarre turn.

[Payne Lindsay]

I'm sitting in my office, there's a knock on the door. And I opened the door and these two guys, they were men, guys in suits and ties, military personnel. One of them presented his credentials and said, hey, we're with the CIA and we have a whole bunch of patients that are having some problems. In my office. They laid out all of these MRIs and they wanted to know whether or not I could detect in the blood any evidence of the inflammatory events.

[Narrator / Host (Payne Lindsay)]

He'S describing, damage. The MRIs didn't lie and the timelines didn't make sense. These injuries, whatever they were, should not exist the way they do.

[Payne Lindsay]

They had white matter disease in the brain. Inarguable. They didn't have it one day, two weeks later, they did. Something like multiple sclerosis develops over years to get to the level of what I was seeing. They didn't have it one day, two weeks later, they did. What had happened was across the military, these medical events, the army's pretty organized and the services are pretty well organized. Despite what some people often think. There is a channel for unexplained events that go up the chain for review. There are analysts who said, okay, well this is weird. We don't know what it is. And it went over into what was they called, the guys who came to my office, the weird bucket. When enough things in the weird bucket started adding up, actually showing similarities, that's where I got involved. They laid out all of these MRIs. They said some of these people said that they'd gotten close to UFOs, that they got close to a UFO.

[Narrator / Host (Payne Lindsay)]

So when they told you this, did they literally say like they came in contact with a ufo?

[Payne Lindsay]

They said, how did they tell you? They said some of these people said that they got close to a UFO and that something about the energy generated by the object had harmed them. I literally looked around, I thought, this is Candid Camera, what's going on?

[Narrator / Host (Payne Lindsay)]

For him, it wasn't the fantastical stories, it was the actual data. That's what hooked him. And once you accept that the injuries are real, even if you don't know the cause, you're forced to widen the lens. If something like this is happening now, whatever it is, how long has it been happening?

[Payne Lindsay]

Some of the stories were pretty spectacular. I said, before I get involved, you're gonna have to fly me out to meet these people face to face. I need to see their body language, I need to read what they're saying. Here's how they explained it. The harm that had come to the vast majority of them, the ones who said that they'd been close to UFOs or beings or things, the UFO events, energy generated by the object had harmed them. They hooked me with the data.

[Whitley Strieber]

Of.

[Payne Lindsay]

All of now the probably hundreds of people that I've spoken to, including so called experiencers and even weirder things. There's a story here that all seems to make sense, but the other thing that is pretty clear is that it's probably not one thing. There's something here that needs to be explained and that there's a level of reality we don't appreciate. People use the word paranormal, but then immediately you think of ghosts.

[Narrator / Host (Payne Lindsay)]

Immediately, yes.

[Payne Lindsay]

And I think of paranormal. All science is paranormal explained. There's something here that is interacting with us. That's my belief.

[Narrator / Host (Payne Lindsay)]

Albert Einstein once said, the most important decision we make is whether we believe the universe is hostile or friendly. If you believe the universe is hostile, you move through it, bracing for impact. You assume friction means danger. You read uncertainty as a warning. You protect yourself first and explain it later. If you believe the universe is friendly, you don't Become naive, you become grounded. You assume that challenges are part of the terrain, not proof that you're off course. You stay open longer, you recover faster. It's not about optimism, it's about posture. A hostile universe requires constant defense. A friendly one requires responsibility. If the universe is friendly, then what you do matters. How you show up matters. The way you treat people matters. Not because you'll be rewarded, because you're participating in something that responds. I'd like to choose the friendly universe, not because it's comforting, but because it demands more from me. It means that when something breaks, I don't immediately assume I'm being punished. I assume there's something to learn. When things don't go my way, I don't default to blame. I look for leverage. This belief does not guarantee good outcomes, but it keeps me in the game. In a future that's getting faster, louder and more automated by the day, staying in the game might be the most powerful choice we have left. After making season one of heist range, I've heard some weird stories. Some people have been telling their story for decades. Never changed, never back down. Stuck with the same script for nearly 50 years. Whitley Strieber has been telling this story since the 1980s. Not once, not twice, for the rest of his life. Whatever you end up thinking about his experience, the consistency is impossible to ignore. And what makes his story different isn't what he claims happened. It's how physically real it actually was. Nice to meet you. Right over here. I know you're short on time. I'll just get right to it. Can you paint a picture for me, starting with that first night?

[Whitley Strieber]

I will do it. December 26, 1985. I had a nice day with my family. It was me, my wife and our son, who was then six. Beautiful afternoon, right after Christmas. We'd have a wonderful Christmas. Little country house we'd bought year before. Went to bed and in the middle of the night became aware of the fact that there were noises around me, movement. Felt like I was in a room full of people. And I was supposed to be in my bedroom alone with my wife. It was just something wrong. Finally, I woke up, opened my eyes. I couldn't get up, couldn't rise off the bed. And then I realized I'm not on my bed. I'm in somewhere else. This room with a arch door and a little black window in it. It was really weird.

[Payne Lindsay]

Who the hell is that? Somebody there? Is that somebody there? I don't think I like that.

[Whitley Strieber]

I saw these big black eyes peering at Me from about two feet away.

[Payne Lindsay]

Something's on.

[Whitley Strieber]

Looks.

[Payne Lindsay]

It's got eyes on it. Big eyes with cell it eyes.

[Whitley Strieber]

I found myself in a room full of what looked like gigantic insects. It was horrifying.

[Payne Lindsay]

I saw something that looked like it.

[Narrator / Host (Payne Lindsay)]

Had a hood on it. Near the corner in our bedroom.

[Payne Lindsay]

I don't want it to be that.

[Whitley Strieber]

The head of the New York State Department of Psychiatry. Dr. Donald Klein. He had solved many criminal cases with hypnosis. The world's best forensic hypnotist. He was the real deal. The memory began to come back under hypnosis.

[Payne Lindsay]

Comfortable, relaxed state. So pay attention to my voice, but you remain.

[Whitley Strieber]

They would move very slowly and then very quickly. They were not of this world at all. That was when I thought, I'm having a nightmare.

[Jacob Goldstein]

I don't want to be here.

[Whitley Strieber]

They didn't go away thinking, God, this is real. I became crazed. I was on a little cot and I couldn't get off of it. I couldn't move. And I kept trying to imagine my bed. I couldn't do that either. So vivid. It was like real life. I remembered those faces. And they weren't human.

[Payne Lindsay]

It was sticking into my mind. It would make a noise, like a voice.

[Whitley Strieber]

I don't know where it came from, but it was a mechanical voice, clearly. And it would repeat. What can we do to help you?

[Payne Lindsay]

Stop screaming. Why don't you like me?

[Whitley Strieber]

I'm hearing this voice. Jesus. What can we do to help you? Stop screaming.

[Payne Lindsay]

I think you heard me.

[Narrator / Host (Payne Lindsay)]

Oh.

[Payne Lindsay]

I'm sorry.

[Whitley Strieber]

Gigantic insects. Very scary. They were not silly looking at all. Ever when you were a kid, maybe watch a praying mantis. How it creeps so gracefully and smoothly along. And then that gets the little fly that it's after. That's how they moved. One of them was about 5ft tall. The others were all very small. They showed me a needle. They're gonna put it in the side of my head.

[Payne Lindsay]

He touches my head with this thing.

[Whitley Strieber]

I realized then this was physical.

[David Charles Grusch]

I will ask.

[Payne Lindsay]

Please stop it. And I can go.

[Whitley Strieber]

Like that.

[Payne Lindsay]

You got to stay relaxed now. What the you doing to me?

[Whitley Strieber]

I don't remember it ending. I don't remember when it ended. I remember waking up in the morning. I thought I'd been assaulted. Criminally, I was sure I had been assaulted. As this became more clear in my mind, I was thinking, you're crazy. You've had some kind of psychotic break.

[Sponsor Voice (Meaningful Beauty / CVS)]

Oh, could this vintage store be any cuter?

[Whitley Strieber]

Right?

[Sponsor Voice (Meaningful Beauty / CVS)]

And the best part, they accept, discover. Except discover in a little place like this? I don't think so. Jennifer. Oh yeah, huh? Discover's accepted where I like to shop.

[Leslie Keene]

Come on baby, get with the times.

[Whitley Strieber]

Right.

[Narrator / Host (Payne Lindsay)]

So we shouldn't get the parachute pants.

[Sponsor Voice (Meaningful Beauty / CVS)]

These are making a comeback, I think.

[Payne Lindsay]

Discover is accepted at 99% of places.

[Whitley Strieber]

That take credit cards nationwide, based on.

[Payne Lindsay]

The February 2025 Nielsen report.

[Jacob Goldstein]

This is Jacob Goldstein from what's yous Problem? Business software is expensive and when you buy software from lots of different companies, it's not only expensive, it gets confusing, slow to use, hard to integrate. Odoo solves that because all Odoo software is connected on a single affordable platform. Save money without missing out on the features you need. Odoo has no hidden costs and no limit on features or data. Odoo has over 60 apps available for any needs your business might have, all at no additional charge. Everything from websites to sales to inventory to accounting. All linked and talking to each other. Check out [e-mail] that's O-O-O.com support for.

[Public Investing Ad Voice]

The show comes from Public, the investing platform for those who take it seriously. On Public you can build a multi asset portfolio of stocks, bonds, options, crypto and now generated assets which allow you to turn any idea into an investable index with AI. It all starts with your prompt. From renewable energy companies with high free cash flow to semiconductor suppliers growing revenue over 20% year over year, you can literally type any prompt and put the AI to work. It screens thousands of stocks, builds a one of a kind index and lets you back test it against the S&P 500. Then you can invest in a few clicks. Generated assets are like ETFs with infinite possibilities, completely customizable and based on your thesis, not someone else's. Go to public.com podcast and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com podcast paid for by Public Investing Brokerage Services by Open to the Public Investing Inc. Member FINRA and SIPC Advisory Services by Public Advisors llc. SEC Registered Advisor Generated Assets is an interactive analysis tool. Output is for informational purposes only and is not an investment recommendation or advice. Complete Disclosures available at public.comdisclosures Now I'd.

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[Whitley Strieber]

I woke up. I felt awful. I wake up and I felt like I'd been beaten up.

[Narrator / Host (Payne Lindsay)]

Tired.

[Whitley Strieber]

I was unbelievably tired. I felt dirty. I took a shower, went downstairs. My wife told me that I was acting strangely. Over the course of the next week, I really struggled with it. The memory began to come back. The more I remembered, the weirder it got. Went to my doctor. I described what I remembered. He says, whitley, you're telling me you think you were taken aboard a flying saucer by little men? And I thought, holy fuck. That is what I'm saying. I've gone crazy. He said, well, why don't we do an MRI on your brain then we're going to do a battery of psychological tests and see where we are. By the time another week or so had passed, the pain was very significant. I want to figure out what's going on. I went back to him. That was when he said I had a rectal tear. Someone did this. I was scared to death. It was really painful. It was a very bad terror. Something has physically happened to me, stuck this thing inside me. Then I fought so much it tore my internals. Who would be creeping into my house in the middle of the night, grabbing me and doing that? The MRI scan showed that I was under a lot of stress, but I was a normal person. It was not a head trip at all. It was very physical. The physical injuries were real. I didn't tell anyone about this. I don't know what he thought.

[Narrator / Host (Payne Lindsay)]

What do you think he thought?

[Whitley Strieber]

Well, I think he might have thought I had done some kind of hallucinogens. Something has physically happened to me.

[Narrator / Host (Payne Lindsay)]

I'd like to believe we live in a friendly universe. Not a safe one, not a gentle one, just friendly. Because darkness, hostility and fear are all very real in some encounters. Don't leave when the night ends. They follow you, they change you and they stay forever.

[Whitley Strieber]

About a year later, one of my neighbors came over to the house. He was a retired state trooper. He shows up and he says, whitley, I saw that happen and I nearly dropped my teeth. He said to me, I'm just so embarrassed, ashamed, the fact that I ran. And I said to him, if you tried to help me, God knows what would happen to you.

[Payne Lindsay]

Lean where to lean at Sleeping on.

[Narrator / Host (Payne Lindsay)]

These jeans is a beanbag.

[Payne Lindsay]

No shoes over she they pan leather shopping Tokyo, Japan they the best of blueberry T shirt sleeve vanilla hard top turn the vert riding anywhere ain't got a band down to say the pearl man we spend the d coping Gucci sweaters We are not the devil.

[Narrator / Host (Payne Lindsay)]

High Strange is a production by Tenderfoot TV in association with iHeart Podcasts. Created, hosted and edited by myself, Payne Lindsay. Executive producers are myself and Donald Albright. Editing by Mike Rooney, Cooper Skinner and myself. Original score by Makeup and Vanity Set Sound design, mixing and mastering by Cooper Skinner. Additional production by Mike Rooney, Dylan Harrington, Eric Quintana, Sean Nurney and Meredith Stedman. Our cover art is by Polygon. This episode features the song Space Cadet by Metro Boomin featuring Gunna Written by Wesley Tyre Glass, Sergio Kitchens, Leland Tyler Wayne, Alan Ritter and Jacques Webster. Performed by Metro Boomin featuring Gunna Courtesy of Republic Records under license from Universal Music Enterprises for Metro Boomin and 3, 300 Entertainment for Gunna. Special thanks to Oren Rosenbaum and the whole team at UTA, the Nord Group, Station 16, and Beck Media and Marketing. Check out the show's [e-mail] and if you're enjoying the show, please help us out by rating and reviewing the podcast and share it with your friends.

[Whitley Strieber]

Thanks for listening. Foreign.

[Jacob Goldstein]

This is Jacob Goldstein from what's yous Problem? Business software is expensive, and when you buy software from lots of different companies, it's not only expensive, it gets confusing. Slow to use, hard to integrate. Odoo solves that because all Odoo software is connected on a single affordable platform. Save money without missing out on the features you need. Odoo has no hidden costs and no limit on features or data. Odoo has over 60 apps available for any needs your business might have, all at no additional charge. Everything from websites to sales to inventory to accounting, all linked and talking to each other. Check out [e-mail] that's O D O O.com at CVS.

[Sponsor Voice (Meaningful Beauty / CVS)]

It matters that we're not just in your community, but that we're part of it. It matters that we're here for you when you need us day and we want everyone to feel welcomed and rewarded. It matters that CVS is here to fill your prescriptions and here to fill your craving for a tasty and yeah, healthy snack. At cvs, we're proud to serve your community because we believe where you get your medicine matters. So Visit [e-mail] or just come by our store. We can't wait to meet you. Store hours vary by location.

[Public Investing Ad Voice]

Every year people make the same fitness goal, Train harder. But most fail because recovery gets ignored.

[Narrator / Host (Payne Lindsay)]

Especially connective tissue that muscles depend on to grow.

[Public Investing Ad Voice]

Frog Fuel was developed by Navy SEALs and perfected by a Stanford trained scientist, delivering 15 grams of nano hydrolyzed collagen.

[Jacob Goldstein]

Protein that digests in just 15 minutes.

[Public Investing Ad Voice]

It's science backed and ready to drink. No mixing, no sugar, no junk. This year, don't just train harder.

[Narrator / Host (Payne Lindsay)]

Recovery ever smarter.

[Public Investing Ad Voice]

Go to frogfuel.com that's frogfuel.com Stay unbreakable.

[David Charles Grusch]

Hey Jennifer Listeners, we want to hear from you. We just launched a survey and want to know about your favorite shows, your merch requests, and what you'd like to Listen to in 2026. Give us the gift of your feedback and you might be one of our winners. To get free merch and a $100Amazon gift card, head over to Tenderfoot TV Survey for more. Thanks again. Now here's the show.

[Payne Lindsay]

This is an iHeart podcast.

[Sponsor Voice (Meaningful Beauty / CVS)]

Guaranteed Human.