← Higher Learning with Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay
Higher Learning with Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay
A Conversation With Rep. Ilhan Omar: AIPAC, MAGA Expats, and Standing Up to ICE
00:58:09
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- [00:10]
A
Joining us now for the first time on Higher Learning. We are very excited. Joining us are representing from Minnesota's 5th congressional district, Congresswoman Ilhan Omar. Thank you so much for joining us on Higher Learning. Yeah.
- [00:23]
B
So excited to be here with you.
- [00:24]
A
We're excited, too. We don't normally typically do this setup. My co host, Van Lathan, he's on the screen here joining us from Los Angeles where we normally are. But we're happy to be here in person.
- [00:34]
C
Hey, what's up? How are you? We met, remember? We met, remember?
- [00:39]
B
Yeah. I was telling my my I was reminding my husband you had the cowboy hat when we met.
- [00:44]
C
My cowboy hat era I made an impassioned plea to the Democrats in Maryland. I guess that was two years ago. I'm not sure they listen. Rep. I'm not sure they listen to me.
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B
Yeah, I don't think they listen much.
- [00:55]
A
They were distracted by the cowboy hat. That's probably that's probably what it is. What is going on here? Okay. We want to definitely make sure we consider your time. Thank you again for joining us. I'm going to just jump right in because there's so much to cover right now. But you've been in Congress since 2019. How different does governing feel right now compared to when you first joined Congress?
- [01:19]
B
I mean, it's a continuation of chaos. You know, our class was sworn in doing a government shutdown. Our class had two presidential impeachments. We survived an insurrection. We, you know, survived Covid as legislators, I'm still trying to match faces to names because so many years people wore masks and you know, it's it's and then now we have another Trump presidency. So it's just been, I think, a chaotic seven and a half years.
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A
So chaos. You're used to chaos. You like the chaos then, kind of. Cause I think I don't know if
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B
I like the chaos, but it's been our norm, you know, so that's kind of the mode that we've been set on and that's where we seem to stay.
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A
It's interesting when you talk about chaos, too, because someone said to me the other day, you have to be crazy to run in politics right now, just with the times that we're living in. And you know, when you look at where this country is right now, politically, economically, socially, culturally, I guess one what word comes to mind and then what is it that keeps you going in a time where it almost feels impossible to get things done?
- [02:42]
B
I mean, I keep going because I think in in my core, I'm an optimist, and I still believe that we can be the generation that gets this country to that perfect union. I know it seems bleak most of the days, but there's always signs of hope that are out there, and I tend to pay attention to those rather than the despair that might surround us.
- [03:16]
A
What's a sign recently of something that you saw? I want to take this. I want your optimism. What's the sign of something recently that you saw that that gives you hope?
- [03:26]
B
Yeah, I mean, when we had the federal occupation of the Twin Cities, you know, we saw ordinary people coming out to support their immigrant neighbors, their brown and black neighbors. We saw moms signing up to take K that weren't even their own to school. We saw people doing mutual aid, trying to grocery shop for people, trying to pay other people's rent. I was at a business center where there are condominiums above the center, and, you know, people were sheltering the workers just so that they didn't get exposed, you know, traveling from their home to work to ICE agents. And so just the, the. The sheer audacity in the face of this crazy times we're living in for people to show up with love and care give gives me a lot of. A lot of hope because we just hear a lot of angry people. We hate a lot of people that are filled with hate and fear. And to see people that were filled with love and courage and resilience. I think Reese helps restore my optimism of where we can go as a country.
- [04:57]
A
Thank you for sharing that. I love that. My optimism today, I said was hoping to catch the letters coming down from the Kennedy center today while I'm in town.
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B
Looking forward to that as well.
- [05:07]
C
Van I love the both of you guys. I'm not so sure I'm as optimistic, but I do have belief and anger, which really matters. So, Rebecca, Omar, I want to ask you a question. We're seeing MAGA right now, particularly Donald Trump, as unpopular as ever. His approval rating and the polling on the Republican Party is in the dirt. But what we don't see, though, is a commiserate affinity for the Democrats. What do you think about the Democrats right now is hindering them from breaking through to Americans?
- [05:49]
B
I mean, I do believe individual Democrats who are running for office are breaking through, and we're seeing the polls threading towards us. But I think our brand as Democrats have been tarnished. We've become the party that promises and never really follows through on that promise. And it will, I think, take few generations probably, for the brand of Democrats to come back to being the party that fights for the little guy, the party that cares about the working and poor people. The party, you know, that actually performs on, on behalf of the people that send them to represent them.
- [06:40]
C
So recently I think a lot of people are asking of American politicians on both sides, like who are they really beholden to kind of piggybacking off what you just said, you know, be it special interest groups, be it foreign lobbies, whatever lobby it is, be it the nra, be it the pharmaceutical lobby, be it aipac, a lot of people are wondering who their politicians masters really are. And the specific case of aipac. We've seen fundraising in races all over the place to specifically oust progressive candidates who are critical of Israel. We saw that with Jamal Bowman, we saw that with corey bush in St. Louis. We've seen attempts at your seat as well. Recently, Jasmine Crockett came under some fire for what some people believed was an endorsement of an APAC backed candidate, Wesley Bell in St. Louis. Like there was video of it. I don't know if you saw that. Congresswoman McCrocke came out and said that she did not believe that that was an endorsement. She did not endorse him. Two questions for you. One, do you see what she said as an endorsement of him at an event that he had there in Missouri? And number two, how should candidates that are specifically positioned by AIPAC to take out the progressive wing of the Democratic Party be treated by the rest of the Democrats?
- [08:12]
B
I did. I didn't see Jasmine come out and say that that wasn't an endorsement, but I did see her comments at an event I think that they were at together. You know, Corey is my sister. I love Corey. I miss Corey. And I taken aback by the fact that she said, you know, no one fights harder for St. Louis and Missouri because Corey literally was putting her life on the line on behalf of her constituents, on behalf of the city that raised her, that she loves, on behalf of Missouri and on behalf of, you know, people that are marginalized in this country. And so I took that to mean a slight and you know, it's not that controversial, I guess, for a lot of members in the House to support a colleague when they're running for reelection. You know, there's that incumbent protection system that often exists and there isn't that much to read to it. But I did find the sentence in itself to not be accurate and I took it as a slight against Cori Bush. I believe AIPAC is toxic. I believe it is one of those organizations that really creates an environment where the members that are elected to represent the interest of those that send them to Washington, D.C. lose the capability of doing that. They do not just threaten to fund an opponent against you. It is a constant harassment, a barrage of text messages that are sent to your constituents. It is the digital ads they run against you. It's the fact that they will say that you are interested in killing people if you are not supporting what they're pushing for. It is a very scary organization that is built on intimidation and bullying, and I think it is in the best interest of every single member of Congress, whether you're independent, whether you're a Democrat, whether you're a Republican, to free yourself from that toxic hold. Because it ultimately does make you a better representation, a better representative of the people that entrusted you with with their vote.
- [11:09]
C
Did it sound like an endorsement to you, though? Did it sound like she was saying that?
- [11:14]
B
It did. It did. It did sound like an endorsement to me, yes.
- [11:18]
C
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- [12:11]
A
This episode is brought to you by FanDuel predicts. You can predict the summer soccer showcase action all the way to the final match with FanDuel predicts. All you have to do is sign up to get your $25 bonus. From the opening game to the final whistle. Stay locked in with every pass, every goal and every moment that moves us closer to crowning a champion. Sign up now for your $25 bonus on FanDuel Predicts. Go to FanDuel.com predicts to sign up. That's FanDuel.com predicts to get your $25 bonus offered by FanDuel Prediction Markets LLC, a registered futures commission merchant 18 restrictions apply. See terms@fanduel.com predicts bonus author terms. I don't even know if you can answer this question, but we weren't talking about AIPAC the way that we are now. Like, I think as voters, we're much more knowledgeable. And maybe that's coming off of, you know, Jamaal Bowman's race and then with Cori Bush's race before. And we saw how certain candidates were being positioned against other candidates, you know, to further their narrative or their interest. But now it is such a part of the conversations where you're hearing certain Democrats say, politicians say, I won't accept that, or maybe avoid the question. Do you think that affects the messaging? You know, is something that we continue to talk with the Democratic Party. The fact that, you know, there seems to be a little bit of split and it is centered around AIPAC or that type of money.
- [13:42]
B
Yeah, I mean, the reason that we didn't talk about it as much as we are talking about it right now, even when they went after me in my first reelection outspending me 4 to 1, is because they never run on the issue of Israel. None of their ads will ever say, we, we want this candidate re elected or we want this candidate to replace the incumbent because they are pro Israel or they want to send your tax dollars to, to Israel to continue to commit a genocide, to continue their apartheid, to continue the illegal settlements. They will never say that. What they will do is that they will create a pack that is like for a better future for a progressive majority. I think in Chicago they, they had one that was like, elect women of color or some, some, you know, something benign like that, where you're like, okay, yeah, that sounds great. But you don't know that the money behind it, the effort behind it is to elect a candidate that is bro Israel that is going to vote. And the way that APAC tells them to vote, that they've taken some pledge that they've, you know, they have a position paper that they signed that AIPAC wanted them to sign, that they will eventually get a handler. You know, all of these things are not things that they're going to advertise or, or talk about. They will take credit after that candidate wins. And so it has taken us many years. You know, I was very vocal. The fact that APAC was, was toxic. That they were pressuring people to have a position, a point of view that was not authentic to them. Many of the members of Congress that say they're pro Israel could not really you know, intellectually have a conversation with you about why they are supportive. No one can really explain how it benefits us to have, you know, $3.5 billion of our money going to a foreign nation. No, we're getting nothing in return. And so we are starting now. We're, we're getting more educated people are much more willing to say, because they understand that they're, that the American people, that the voters, whether you're a Democrat or Republican, don't want a single group of people to have this much leverage on their members of Congress
- [16:41]
A
when it comes to messaging and kind of reworking things based off everything that you're just saying, based off the 2024 election results. We got that post mortem that came out recently, or the lack thereof.
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B
Right.
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A
Like, there wasn't a lot there. And we talked about it here on the podcast. But I'm wondering for you, like, what does it tell you or what does it tell the voters? That the party really isn't having this complete conversation around, you know, messaging and what went wrong. And then I guess to piggyback on that, you know, when you were talking with Van and you're talking about people who have left the party or who don't trust the party, I should say, what is it that you actually think is driving them away? And I guess those are two separate thoughts.
- [17:28]
B
Well, let me answer the latter first. I, I, I think the people who are not as interested or enthusiastic about the party, but might be interested or enthusiastic about an individual candidate, I think they are waking up to the idea that we shouldn't just support someone because they are a part of a particular party. We should be much more informed voters and try to look at the platform, what the candidates are about, what they're willing to do on your behalf once they're elected, who is supporting them, where is their money coming from? What kind of pledges are they willing to take about, you know, PAC money and corporate PAC money and, you know, how are they going to make their decisions once they get there about what they're going to vote for and what they're going to vote against? Oftentimes you get these exciting candidates and people like, really don't pay attention to who they are and what they stand for. And, you know, if they had a record of activism and what was that record like? If they didn't, you know, what did they do for a living? What is their background? And, and we're, I, you know, we're trying, we're starting to see a lot of young people be that Way right. Where they are meticulous about the, the agenda that the person is running on rather than, you know, if they're flashy enough, they're exciting enough, and if they have enough resources to get them to vote for you. And I think to your question about the autopsy, when we had our first Dem retreat, I think Van was there, they had a couple of panels to talk about what we did wrong and what we should have done. And I was surprised that no one was really talking about what happened with the people that voted in 2020 and didn't vote in 2024 because no one was really concerned with it. And, and that is a disservice to our party, is a disservice to the kind of progress we want to make. And the reason for that is we are also funded as, as a Democratic Party by the groups that didn't want us to talk about the genocide in Gaza, by individuals who, you know, will write a million dollar check to unseat a progressive because they signed on to a resolution calling for a ceasefire. And so when you have that kind of apparatus set up a system in which, you know, the, the uber wealthy want you to stay silent in order for them to fund your campaign and your operation, then you're risking a lot if you do not stay silent. And the Democratic Party donors are the people that want us to keep giving Israel this billion of dollars. They are the ones who will say, you know, the, the genocide was justified. They are the ones who, you know, will call us anti Semite. You know, we, we talk about on the floor, we talked about the apartheid that was happening in Israel or that we called for a ceasefire. The, the former press secretary called us repugnant. Biden secretary, press secretary. And so you, you can see that these are people who are in lockstep. And so of course they're not going to have an autopsy. They're not supposed to say, and they're not gonna have those kind of voices at their retreat to give them the actual reason why we could have won Michigan and. But we lost Michigan.
- [21:45]
A
Yeah, yeah,
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B
because it's, it's almost as if they forgot that there was this whole uncommitted movement. Well, right. There were like thousands and thousands of people that, that, you know, this was an issue for them. It, it was as if it never happened. And you know, like the Trump administration, their campaign worked really hard to have a conversation with these people. He himself, individually, his daughter's father in law, who's, who I believe is Lebanese, went and talked to these people Individually. And so the fact that we didn't even make the attempt to have these conversations with people or to use our power to negotiate a ceasefire really tells you why some of these things are not in the autopsy, and they're still ignoring it. Yes.
- [22:44]
C
I want to talk about you for a second, because it seems as if you are sometimes attacked from within your own party, but you are certainly being attacked from outside of your party. The MAGA Republican wing of our government, just the Republicans themselves. The right has always used you as sort of a punching bag and now is directly targeting you with a Justice Department investigation. Now, for a lot of Americans, even the hint of something like that is enough for them to be like, hey, look at this person. Like, bad person, corrupt, whatever. But they are investigating your finances, campaign spendings, interactions with the foreign citizen. Could you walk us through what actually happened? And what do you want people to know that they have not heard?
- [23:37]
A
Hmm?
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B
I mean, that's what they're saying they're doing. I don't know of an official investigation into any of those things. So it's, it's a, it's a bizarre thing to read these reports or to see, you know, these influencers and the Vice President and the President constantly talk about this without there being an actual open investigation or anything like that. And I just think it is. You know, I joke that whenever Trump and his mega movement are stuck and there's something they don't want to talk about, you know, whether it's the Epstein files or the illegal war in Iran or the fact that gas prices are soaring and the economy is going to shit, it's like, oh, that Ilhan Omar or the Somalis in Minnesota. And so it's just, it's one of those kind of distractive things that the media then picks up and is able to, to run headlines instead of running headlines on the failures of, of the Trump administration.
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C
How hard has that been specifically for you?
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B
It's really not. I don't. It has no impact, I guess, on me because it's just some crazy people talking shit. And, you know, I don't really, I don't. I've. I've got healthy kids. I'm healthy, you know, like, my family's good, I'm good. And so I don't really worry about these people who seem obnoxiously obsessed with me.
- [25:22]
D
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A
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- [27:23]
C
I get off of this, I want to ask you a specific question that's sort of about you, but it's more about Minnesota. Yo, where did Minnesota get its balls? Like, I'm just being for real. Like, everyone knew and LA showed out and a lot of other places showed out. Everyone knew that all of the ice overreaches would eventually come to a head. But I don't think anyone could have predicted the degree to which the people of Minnesota would just say no. Specifically, Minneapolis would just be like, no, we're not doing this. We're not having any of this. We don't want to be a part of this. And we will initiate the type of response and resistance that sets a standard for the rest of America if, in fact, you try to do this in our community. And, you know, we've seen them be targeted, a lot of lies and smears and all of that. We've seen them be, like, surged with ice and CBP and all of this type of stuff, but they stayed resilient, made unconscionable sacrifices, and won. What specifically is it about the cultural makeup of people from the state that you represent? Like, what is it about them?
- [28:39]
B
But we're just built different. You know, we are cold. North state, it is cold, and it takes a lot of courage and resilience to survive that, that cold. And, you know, I remember when we lost in, in 2024, and we knew that the Trump administration was coming in, I'd set up a meeting to go visit with DHS officials in, in Minnesota, and one of the, their. One of their attorneys said to me, you know, I've. I've been to, like, 20 states, and the worst state for us to function in is. Is Minnesota. And I said, why is that? And he said, you guys are just too coordinated and too well connected to, to one another. And, and that's kind of what, you know, played out. And what the, the country and the world got to see is that we are, you know, we. We. The word community is not just a word we use. We believe it, we live it, and people really deeply care about one another. And that's why, you know, people like myself who are immigrants in this country, who come from sub Saharan weather, have gravitated towards that state and have, you know, created a life for themselves there. It's just, it's a. It's a very special state with really special people.
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C
Y' all have better white people there, I think. How do we get some of those? What do we do? Tell us how to get to.
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B
We do have. We do. We do have great people in general, but yes, a lot. You know, the, the best of the best. I guess we've got Scandinavians and they, you know, they have, they're just really sweet, incredible people who, who, who deeply believe in community, who deeply believe in volunteerism, who deeply believe in civic engagement. And that's also why we have one of the highest voter turnouts in the country as well.
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A
Van, have you been to Minnesota?
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C
Yep.
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A
Okay. There's something there. The Minnesota. Nice thing. Yes, the Minnesota. I Used to live in Wisconsin for a quick second. The Minnesota nice thing is a real thing. Yeah, I think that's where I was.
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B
Yeah, you said what I meant to.
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C
The hot dish, man.
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A
What's the hot dish?
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B
Yes. I mean, it's a. It's a. Oh, it's a food. Yes. Yeah.
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C
Casserole. They make all kinds of different types of casseroles.
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B
Casserole is what other people call it. Yes.
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C
They make different types of hot dishes.
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B
We call our casserole.
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C
Yeah, I was up there. They make. Sometimes they put all different types. Sometimes they make a dessert hot dish. It's a great place. Minneapolis, St. Paul. Shout out to Grandma Ray. Shout out to, like, all the different spots up in. Shout out to all the places in Minnesota. I've been up there.
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B
So you've vacationed. You know about Grandma. Grandma.
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C
Minnesota, right there. Then on the other side, Thunder Bay, Ontario, Lake Superior. All of that stuff right along the Mississippi. Shout out to all my people up there. Y' all know how we get down.
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B
Yeah, we have great parks, we have great lakes. You know, it's just. It's a great environment. And Prince used to say it is so cold because it keeps the bad people away. And so that's also how we ended up with all the nice people, because the cold has kept all the bad people away.
- [32:11]
A
I like that. I like that. One more thing on this topic before, and I'll let Van turn it to something else. I want to say that, you know, Representative Nancy Mays, you know, she's introducing this constitutional amendment that would bar naturalized citizens from serving in Congress. She named you explicitly, which you already said. You know, they go down a checklist. They target you. But what I want to know how you respond to that. But it's not just you. Like, this would affect people on. In both parties. So, you know, it's not about you. Is it something bigger here? Like, what do you think that it is that she's trying to accomplish? And how do you respond to that?
- [32:51]
B
Yeah, I mean, well, bless her heart, You know, she. She represents South Carolina. And, you know, oftentimes I usually. I watch these people, and you can almost certainly tell when they're having a slow press week is that they'll start to do something just obnoxiously awful so that they can get invited to do interviews. And, you know, I saw her amendment thing, and I was thinking, it's very odd. And my staff was like, she's probably going to be on everything tonight. And just like clockwork, right? She. She. She was doing the, the rounds that, that evening. And then I was in South Carolina, my in laws lived there and I was watching the news and here comes this really awful ad against Nancy Mace. And it was called crazy Nancy. And I was like, oh, so her governorial run is not going very well. And you know, they're running these, these ads where, you know, they're calling her crazy. So it just, it all clicked because she's, you know, trying to like now appease, I guess, the, the, the bigots. She's desperate. Yeah. And by having this, you know, cinephobic amendment to the Constitution that's not going to go anywhere. But you know, like all of them, their anti sharia caucus, the bills that they have, they've got bills to say people have to denounce their other citizenships if they're a U. S. Citizen, which is the thing that you do when you're becoming American citizen.
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A
Right.
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B
It just, it, I mean they're all. And, and the thing to me that, that is always fascinating is that seemingly normal people, like, would see these things and see through it. Yeah. But they, but they have a base that just has no concept of understanding what is stupid and what is not. And so you can, you know, tell them Haitians are eating cats and dogs and they'll be like, sure, yeah, that's, that's a thing. You can tell them you're gonna introduce an amendment to the Constitution. And they're like, sure, that's a thing. You know, and they'll walk around asking you like, how do you feel like when, you know, this is gonna. What somebody was saying to me the other day you filed for reelection with Nancy Mace's amendment pending. And I was like, what? Do you even know how a constitutional amendment.
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A
No, that's what I was gonna ask
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B
you because I was gonna say the ERA has not, it has not been part of the constitution yet and it's been decades. Please stop.
- [36:11]
A
Well, I was gonna say, do you think the jig is up where people see through this kind of stuff, that it's performative or they're having a slow week or they're overreaching to try to win a race? And then you said, well, there's still this strong base. And I'm with you. I'm sometimes just amazed at the things that some people will repeat. To me, that's a headline or a social media post. And you know, now I'm just forgetting what the question. I was going to ask about it,
- [36:39]
B
but no, no, I literally forgot. They are, they are gullible. There's so many people that are just gullible. They believe because they want to. Right. Like they, they want these bad things to exist or they live in a world in which, you know, people are capable of maybe eating cats and dogs or.
- [37:00]
A
Do you think they think the government wouldn't. It was interesting, right? Because the whole running thing was the government. You can't trust the government. You can't trust the government. Yet they trust everything that base that Trump says. And I'm wondering, is it just that they think, well, he would never lie. Why would the government lie to us? Of course it's true. I'm trying to figure out where it comes from, because I'm trying to avoid. We were talking about this earlier, calling them stupid. I'm trying to be nice, but that's what it feels like. So I'm just, I guess I'm wondering, where do you think it comes from?
- [37:31]
B
I mean, I, I would say some of them are stupid. I would also say, you know, I've seen really smart, educated people fall for this stuff. And it's, you know, I do think that they do have probably somewhere in their heart, you know, they are cinephobic. They have these sort of, you know, awful thoughts. But also there are people whose lives are very small and they get a joy out of looking down on someone else or wishing harm on someone else. And like that. That's the thing that they live for. You know, I see people who are like, they'll enjoy Trump's, like, insults on, you know, vulnerable people or, you know, they'll, like, they'll have, it would be entertaining to them to have, like, somebody get hurt or, you know, bombing a school full of girls. Like, they think those are, you know, those, those things are, like, fun for them. And it's just it, it is, it is sad to, to think about people like that existing, especially, you know, where, where I grew up, where, you know, people like, deeply care about their neighbors and deeply care about one another. It's. It's hard imagining that, you know, a state over. That there are people that just enjoy those kind of awful things.
- [39:18]
A
Right.
- [39:19]
B
Yeah.
- [39:20]
C
Let's talk about some of those people that you like. Me and you caused an argument on this podcast between me and my co host, Rachel. You did, because you had said, I
- [39:35]
B
tend to do that.
- [39:35]
D
You do.
- [39:36]
C
You're very controversial. We're here to hold you to task. You said some time ago that, correct me if I'm wrong, but that we should find our way to put our arms around or embrace in some way all The MAGA expats like, I don't know, we were talking about Marjorie Taylor Greene in this situation. But there are a bunch of people who I guess either stay true to the American first doctrine that they thought that Donald Trump believed in or can see the writing on the wall for the post MAGA existence of the right and are doing their damnedest to be positioned as the leaders in that movement. And this set off a firestorm of conversation because people really do not know what to do with these people that were on, that were for all of this stuff then, but now have seen some sort of light since they've been cast out by the deity known as Donald Trump. All right, if we're not putting our arms around him, if we're not casting them out from our own side, they're already sort of cast outs, then what do you do? Is there a point on the left where you invite former dissenting voices in, no matter how vile that dissent has been? And I'll have a follow up on this based upon what you say.
- [41:03]
B
No, I mean, I, I don't, I don't believe that you put your arms around the individual. What I was saying is that putting your arms around the idea that people are, you know, for policy positions that we've been advocating for and are speaking to an audience that doesn't listen to us and getting them on our side for, you know, some of the things we care about, we're anti war, we want the genocide to end, we want a pact to be held account, we want candidates not taking their money. And so if that's what you're preaching, you know, I, I will embrace and put my around the idea that you are now taking a policy position that I've been on and I've been called names for. And so I do think when people have the ability to lift up something that you deeply care about and have advocated for you, you welcome their ability to do that.
- [42:06]
C
So my follow up question is, you know, a guy that I really enjoy listening to is a gentleman by the name of Basim Youssef. I'm sure you've seen him before. He's awesome. He's very funny. He goes on Piers Morgan and he takes them down with a wink and a knot. There is something interesting about.
- [42:25]
B
He's Egyptian. They tend to be very funny.
- [42:28]
C
He's off Comedy Central from before. He's like a brilliant guy. But there is something interesting that's happening now with him and I see this happening a lot. He has sort of embraced Tucker Carlson. He's Sort of embraced. Candace Owens. It seems to me sometimes as a black American living here, that if someone is anti Israel, it really doesn't matter what else they are anti. That sometimes some of the other repugnant things that they have said and continue to say about black people, about other people, about other things, kind of get washed away if they are fact, anti Israel, anti genocide. And while those are things, solidarity with the global south is an incredibly important thing. A lot of black Americans here feel like we are left out in the wilderness for everybody else's cause. But then we are also asked to be energetically engaged in those same causes. Right? And this was the whole. Even, you know, in the election of Kamala Harris, there was a lot of tension around how do you support and advocate and at the same time understand that you will drink dirty water if the Republicans win? Win. You will have your voting rights taken if the Republicans win. What do we do with this tension? How do we figure this out? What would you say to people that are from Houston, Baton Rouge, Tallahassee, wherever the black people live in Minneapolis? I don't know where they be at, but, like, what would you say everywhere? What would you say? I know, I know they up there. I just like messing with them. What would you say to those people?
- [44:04]
B
I mean, it's valid. You know, you certainly don't want to be a person who doesn't. Doesn't care about issues because they are personal to you or be told not to care about issues because they are personal to you. I mean, I care about what's happening in the Middle East. I care about war. I survived one. I care about us being anti war and not contributing to destruction around the world. But I also care about my race. I care about the injustices we experience here in the United States and what it means for. For us to. To be protective of one another and to pick the candidate that is not going to cause us harm. Which, you know, which is why I voted for. For Harris and advocated for people to. To vote for her. So I, I don't. I don't think it is invalid for people to hold that tension, for people to speak to that tension. But I also want people to think about what it means when we say someone is embracing someone. You know, if you're going on their show to have a conversation about the particular topic of the, the destruction of Palestinian lives in the hands of Israel, that's. That's the topic of the day. And you have that conversation with whoever is willing to have that conversation with you, you're Certainly then it would be really weird if you were on there and they were talking about black people or some other thing and you were agreeing with them that would be embracing if you were agreeing with a point of view that was bigoted that they might have towards black people. So I think that's the, that's how I would look at that, that tension because, like, for me, I'm not going to be able to, to sit and have a conversation with Marjorie Taylor Greene who thinks my religion is fake, who doesn't believe, you know, I, I have a right to be in the United States, that I have a right to be in Congress, that my oath is legal about any of those things, because obviously we, we are not going to agree to have that conversation. And I'm not going to uplift anything that she's saying. But do I, do I think she's right in making the, the comments about, you know, the broken promises that the Trump administration made about not starting another forever war.
- [47:20]
C
Yes, one. And you don't have to. One gentle pushback here. Just gentle, very gentle. I understand what you're saying is, but I wonder how that would read if someone were having a conversation with Mark Levin, Ben Shapiro on an issue other than the Middle east, other than Gaza, other than Israel, other than whatever, and you're sitting down and that is hanging over the conversation and you never get to it. Right. And so sometimes I feel like that's the way a lot of brothers and sisters feel when they watch that. Sure. That conversation is about Israel's genocide in Gaza. It's about the war in Iran, it's about all of that stuff. But if we are in solidarity, don't you think it's fair as a fair, there's a fair expectation that at some point we get to your bad ideas that affect my life. Because if I were talking to Mark Levin or Ben Shapiro, Ben Shapiro needs no help in being anti black, like he's done that before. At some point we are going to get to the fact that it feels like their job is to launder a genocide for foreign government. Like we're going to have that conversation no matter what else we were talking about. I can't imagine what we would be talking about that we would agree on, but at some point it seems like we would have that conversation.
- [48:51]
A
Yeah.
- [48:52]
B
I mean, it also, I hear you. And, and I think it also depends on whose platform is being utilized. If they were on your show, that makes sense, right? That you, you, you would bring up different topics. But if, you know, I don't get to interview you. I'm answering your questions. So that's. That's why I say, like, somebody going on somebody's show or saying, you know, we should listen to this segment that Tucker might have might not be the same as having them on your platform to give them the opportunity to say the stuff they say without you bringing up on the other stuff that is on your mind.
- [49:42]
A
That makes sense. No, it makes sense. We would be bad interviewees. We would be like, just. Just so you know, we want to say this. We want to make sure we say this.
- [49:51]
B
That's weird, man.
- [49:52]
A
We would be bad on that.
- [49:54]
C
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A
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B
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- [50:50]
A
Fees may apply. I know that you have to leave soon. I want to just ask a couple of more questions here. We live in la. By the time this comes out, we will know the results of the primaries. And the mayor race is getting a lot of attention, a lot of national attention because Spencer Pratt, former reality TV star, running for mayor.
- [51:13]
B
Okay.
- [51:14]
A
I'm also formerly from reality tv, but I choose to use my platform in better ways. I'm one you can trust.
- [51:21]
B
Okay, which one was he on?
- [51:24]
A
He was on the Hills. Okay, the Hills. The Hills extension of Laguna beach in la.
- [51:31]
B
But I remember Laguna beach, but I don't remember the Hills.
- [51:34]
A
Yeah, it was like they. They grew up, they went to la and they're living on their own for the first time. Okay, enter Spencer Pratt.
- [51:41]
B
And so the hit.
- [51:43]
A
The race is competitive, like, as we speak, he is in the top three. And for you, seeing someone just the
- [51:50]
B
one that Lied about living in a trailer. Yeah. Oh, okay, okay, okay. That's it.
- [51:54]
C
Stop you being shad of.
- [51:57]
B
No, I really, I'm not. California is so far away.
- [52:01]
A
Whatever it is, I love it. Yes. He lied about living in a trailer.
- [52:04]
B
Yeah, I think. I think I remember something about that.
- [52:06]
A
And then. Yeah. Van's former place of employment reported that he lived. Was at Beverly Hills Hotel. Sorry, I had to throw that one in there. But the race is competitive, sadly, and as you know, it's always contentious when you're looking at the who's going to be mayor of a big city.
- [52:23]
B
Like, wait, Van used to work for tmz?
- [52:26]
A
Yes.
- [52:26]
C
You don't know anything. That's not. We both.
- [52:28]
A
We both come. We both come from places that we move.
- [52:34]
B
That is where I saw that.
- [52:36]
C
How about. How about you treat me. Treat me like you treat Marjorie Taylor Greene? How's that?
- [52:43]
B
Put your arm around that woman.
- [52:47]
C
Don't bring up the past.
- [52:48]
B
I certainly would not be putting my arms around her. Maybe it may be in a different way. Maybe in a different way.
- [52:55]
A
Yes, she clarified that. Not a physical embrace, but with this race, it's competitive. You know, he's going up against incumbent Karen Bass, and Nithya Raman's also up there in the top three. And so I'm just wondering for you, when you look at a race like this, former reality TV star, no experience, no real plans, just ideas, no policies of how he's going to. What he's going to enact in the city should he. Should he win. What does it tell you about the current political moment? That this is actually a real competitive race with someone like Spencer Pratt?
- [53:32]
B
Yeah, I mean, that's. It's the danger always in races where someone has huge name recognition is that they get, like, a lot of earned media. Right. They're the, the media follows them around. They get many more interviews, and no one really gets to the substance because they're a character. And a lot of people just get to see that character, which is kind of what we had with Trump when he first ran in 16. And so I, I, you know, in that aspect, I'm. I'm worried, you know, we. We have. I can't. I don't know what reality show or his name, but we also have one in Minnesota running in the iron range, a former reality TV star. I don't know if. Oh, Luke. Yeah. From.
- [54:32]
A
Luke from Summer House.
- [54:35]
B
Summer House.
- [54:36]
A
I should know this.
- [54:37]
B
All right, Luke.
- [54:38]
A
Luke. I can't pronounce. Okay.
- [54:39]
B
That's another reality show I've Skipped, I guess. I don't even remember it being on. And so. So, you know, and then, like, you just have these people that are very familiar. Right. Like Trump was on a reality show. People were very familiar with who he was and they felt comfortable. And that. That's scary.
- [55:01]
A
Yeah.
- [55:02]
B
Because we want people elected with substance and. Yeah, wish. Well, I wish Karen the best. That's my big sis. So I. I hope. I hope she's successful in winning reelection.
- [55:20]
A
All right, me too.
- [55:21]
C
We're gonna let you go, Congresswoman. I will ask you one last question, though. Minnesota, Mount Rushmore. We're going politician. You can choose yourself if you like. Athlete, singer, and whoever else you like.
- [55:40]
B
Oh, we're having a Mount Rushmore in Minnesota.
- [55:43]
C
No, no, I'm asking you your Minnesota route. Mount Rushmore.
- [55:47]
B
Okay, I see. Okay.
- [55:49]
C
Athlete, singer, politician, and wild card. You could do actor or whatever somebody else you like.
- [55:59]
B
Oh, okay. How many people? Oh, all of them. Okay. I would do Prince.
- [56:08]
C
That's the easiest. Number one pick.
- [56:12]
B
Paul Wellstone, the late senator.
- [56:14]
C
Okay. Wow. Welly.
- [56:18]
B
That would be the politician, Kevin Garnett.
- [56:22]
C
Kevin Garnett. Wow. Okay, I know. How you coming now?
- [56:26]
B
Cool. What was the other. What was the last.
- [56:32]
C
Last one is wild card. You could do actor. You could do. You could do, like, whatever. Like just somebody that you like that comes from Minnesota.
- [56:41]
B
Jesse the body. Jesse Finch.
- [56:43]
A
Oh, wrestling fan, too.
- [56:46]
B
I am a huge wrestling fan.
- [56:50]
A
No, I know he was the governor. I know he was the governor, man.
- [56:54]
B
Yeah. I grew up watching wrestling with my grandfather.
- [56:56]
A
See?
- [56:57]
B
And boxing with my dad, so. Love compact sport.
- [57:00]
C
Yeah. Okay.
- [57:01]
B
Did you do sport? I. Yes, I did soccer and track. Okay.
- [57:09]
C
Distance. Right.
- [57:09]
A
I wanted you to say wrestling and boxing, too.
- [57:12]
B
No, I didn't. Yes, I did not do wrestling or boxing. I did. I did fight a lot, but really not in an organized way.
- [57:22]
A
Okay, well, thank you. So this has been great. Thank you so much for your time, Congresswoman. We really appreciate your honesty, your vulnerability. Not shying away from any questions. We hope that you do join us again on higher learning and we wish you.
- [57:34]
B
Thank you.
- [57:35]
A
Moving forward. Yes, thank you.
- [57:37]
C
We support you. Try to get the others to act like you. How does that. That's what we'll do. Like, we, like. We support you guys. I was just talking to like, Jamal. We support you, but we're not going to get off the rest of your. Your. Your colleagues neck for anything.
- [57:49]
B
I know.
- [57:51]
A
Oh, you're running for re election. Please tell everyone where they can, you know, follow.
- [57:56]
B
Support all of that. Yeah. Elhanomar Dot com is the our campaign website. Or you can just google Ilhan for Congress and then Ilhan mn for socials.
- [58:14]
A
Thank you so much.
- [58:15]
B
Follow Donate Help out in any way you can.
- [58:18]
A
All the things.