A Dive Into the Diddy Trial, Meghan Trainor’s New Bass, and Bringing Redheads to the Community

Summary

Higher Learning with Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay

Episode: A Dive Into the Diddy Trial, Meghan Trainor’s New Bass, and Bringing Redheads to the Community
Date: May 16, 2025
Podcast Host: The Ringer

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Overview

In this episode, Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay deliver their trademark mix of humor and sharp cultural insight as they explore headline topics impacting Black culture and beyond. The main segments cover:

• The aftermath of their first live show (and Van's catastrophic "what if" musings)
• The TikTok redhead/"gingers are Black now" trend and its cultural implications
• Meghan Trainor's lyric change and the debate around body positivity in celebrity culture
• An in-depth legal breakdown of the Diddy sex trafficking trial with guest Yodit Tewolde
• Recent news and controversies in politics (DNC drama and porn legislation)

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Episode Breakdown

1. Post-Live Show Musings: "What If I’d Shit My Pants on Stage?"

[00:02 – 06:56]

• Van and Rachel reminisce about the success of their first live podcast show, highlighting the fun and fan engagement.
• Van humorously fixates on a hypothetical disaster — “What if I would have shit my pants on stage?” — spiraling into an open and uproarious discussion.
  • Van (03:10): “If I would have shit my pants ... would it be better to finish the show or to walk off stage or you’re doing the show by yourself?”
  • Rachel rebuffs Van’s somersault ambitions: “Highly inappropriate, highly unnecessary. Didn’t need to do it.”
  • Side banter includes anecdotal reference to Fergie’s infamous on-stage mishap with stories about popstars performing under less-than-ideal bodily conditions.
• The hosts note audience reactions would have been mixed but ultimately hilarious — a testament to their chemistry and comfort with oversharing.
• Rachel laments Van didn't take his shirt off on stage as promised, reinforcing the playful nature of their rapport.

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2. Redheads and Racial Gatekeeping: TikTok’s “Gingers Are Black” Trend

[06:56 – 18:48]

• Rachel introduces a trending TikTok meme: white redheads claiming “Blackness” and receiving messages of welcome from Black users.
  • Rachel (07:56): “Are you bothered by it? Are you in on the joke? ... This is what we’re doing?”
  • Van: “I don’t care ... Seems like the kids are having some fun.”
  • Van pivots, wondering (partially tongue-in-cheek) about the “thickness” of ginger white women: “Ginger white ladies are thicker, they’re curvier ... was there some connection?”
• The segment expands into a critique: Are Black communities too quick to welcome outsiders facing any marginalization?
  • Rachel (12:16): “Why do we always have to be like, you’re mistreated? Come on in.”
• Ashley adds: “I think...redheaded American folks...are the Black people of white people. But I don’t think that should count.”
• Van and Rachel frame this generosity as having roots in empathy from historical struggle, but caution the dangers of lack of gatekeeping:
  • Van (15:12): “You gotta fight for your culture...the only way to not have them do that is for you to fight.”
  • Rachel (17:46): “We want everybody to come to the cookout, but we let y’all in and y’all start changing the recipes.”

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3. Quick Hitters: Celebrity Drama and Political Controversies

[18:48 – 59:48]

a. Halle Bailey & DDG Custody Dispute and Abuse Allegations

[19:41 – 34:15]

• The podcast discusses allegations against rapper DDG from actress Halle Bailey.
• Rachel underscores the typical gendered responses in public custody battles — especially in male-dominated online communities:
  • Rachel (26:08): “And automatically, without any...believing DDG. And he’s not the only one. You had a lot of men in the streaming community...automatically saying, we believe ddg. We stand by him.”
• Van, drawing from his TMZ experience, explains why ugly details often surface during custody fights, not to diminish their seriousness but to contextualize the public airing of grievances.
• Both emphasize the need to focus on the wellbeing of Halle and DDG’s child, and warn against reading too much into curated celebrity couple personas.

b. Meghan Trainor Alters Body Positive Lyrics: Cultural Wave or Letdown?

[34:18 – 48:21]

• Meghan Trainor updates her hit “All About That Bass” to reference her new breast implants, sparking fan backlash.
• Rachel is empathetic but insists on honesty: “She’s very real...She said that she did it because she wanted to be healthier and a stronger version for herself...”
• Van is more critical:
  • Van (37:01): “When the body positivity movement was coming around...it was not for people like Meghan Trainor or even Lizzo. It was for others who are in those bodies and trying...They can’t afford Ozempic, like, I’m on Manjaro. It’s expensive.”
  • Van (44:38): “The only thing that I have a problem with is hope peddling. And if you are going to pedal hope...there is a lot of damage being done to the body positivity movement when its spokespeople...are now [changing].”
• A nuanced back-and-forth addresses the complexities of body image, access to weight-loss drugs, and the dangers of celebrities misrepresenting their wellness journeys.

c. DNC Politics: David Hogg, Gatekeeping, and Intra-Party Conflicts

[49:19 – 59:48]

• Ashley outlines the DNC’s invalidation of David Hogg's vice chair election.
• Both hosts critique Democratic leadership for suppressing young/progressive disruption:
  • Van (51:25): “If the Democratic Party can’t handle the status quo...then there's no reason to believe it’s an instrument to challenge the status quo in America.”
  • Rachel (53:25): “Is what David Hogg is saying so wrong? Is it because you’re going to lose your power and position...rather than actually listening to the people?”
• They note the optics and inner politics of leadership, underlining the need for generational change at the top.

d. Republican Porn Bill: Redefining Obscenity

[59:52 – 73:50]

• Ashley summarizes Sen. Mike Lee’s bill to redefine federal “obscenity,” effectively threatening porn (and potentially, broader artistic expression).
• Van launches into a comedic defense of porn’s social utility:
  • Van (64:28): “Have you ever had a good session? Like a really good session?...Because if you had, there would be no way you could want to get rid of it.”
• The discussion shifts to the wider censorship implications — not just for porn, but art, film, and sex education.
  • Rachel (68:05): “It’s going to be something that is open to interpretation...they will be able to take this definition and use it as a weapon...”
• Both decry the dangers of letting conservative politicians define national morals and sexual mores, warning of increased repression and real-world harms.

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4. The Diddy Trial: Deep Dive with Legal Expert Yodit Tewolde

[75:08 – 100:54]

Introduction and Trial Structure

• Yodit Tewolde joins to clarify the facts and legal strategy in the high-profile federal case against Sean “Diddy” Combs.
• Key stages so far:
  • Jury selection and opening statements [75:08]
  • Testimony from hotel security and one of the escorts involved in the alleged “freak offs”
  • Star witness Cassie Ventura’s 9+ hour direct examination and ongoing cross

Legal Strategy and Optics

• Cross-examination of Cassie is conducted gently, by a female defense attorney for optic reasons, “measured, calm and conversational.” [79:24]
• The defense seeks to depict Cassie and others as consenting adults in a loving — albeit toxic — relationship.

What’s Actually on Trial?

• Five federal charges: racketeering conspiracy; two counts of sex trafficking by force, fraud, or coercion; and two counts of transportation for prostitution.
  • Yodit (84:35): “The prosecution is saying that Diddy ran a criminal enterprise...he had an inner circle of staff...to facilitate crimes and to help cover it.”
  • Yodit (90:00): “By force, fraud or coercion, that’s a sex trafficking charge...force is physical; coercion can be psychological – threats to reputation, career, etc.”
• Significant distinction is made between criminal acts and “kinky” but consensual sex.

The Prosecution’s Challenge & The Role of Salacious Testimony

• Prosecution must connect the “salacious details” (freak off stories, violence, and text messages) to actual violations of law, not just to moral outrage.
  • The defense will argue for consensual adult behavior, question credibility, and challenge the use of RICO statutes.
  • Jurors visibly react to explicit images shown, raising questions of balance between evidence and spectacle. [97:59]
  • Yodit (97:59): “There can be too much [salaciousness] for the jury to the point where they’re now turned off or maybe seeing it as a distraction from the prosecution...”

What Comes Next?

• More victims and former employees are expected to testify; unclear how the defense will respond.
  • The defense may emphasize lack of “criminal” conduct and focus on consensual adult activity.
  • Yodit (100:37): “It’s going to be really imperative for the prosecution to make a distinction between bad immoral conduct [and] actual criminal conduct...”

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5. Reflections on Gender, Power, & Accountability

[100:59 – 106:28]

• Van and Rachel close by urging better reflexes and critical thinking when allegations surface against beloved celebrities or in public custody battles.
  • Van (102:58): “It feels like you feel that way if it’s somebody uncle up the block...But when it’s somebody that you like, you have a problem calling balls and strikes...”
  • Rachel (104:52): “When it comes to Diddy, the people who still find themselves trying to defend him...Knowing that, you still find something within yourself to defend it, is despicable, disgusting...At the very least, troubling.”
• Both denounce the double-standard that lets fame shield the accused, pushing listeners to “let the trial play out” but not mistake charisma for innocence.

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• “Do the somersault, shit your pants, do the whole thing.” – Rachel (02:50)
• “Blackness can’t be attached to like hardship. Just cause you have it tough, that mean you black. I don’t like that shit.” – Van (11:53)
• “We want everybody to come to the cookout, but we let y’all in and y’all start changing the recipes.” – Van (17:58)
• “There is a lot of damage being done to the body positivity movement when its spokespeople...are now being changed and being disintegrated because there is a drug that helps you lose weight.” – Van (40:25)
• “If the Democratic Party can’t handle the status quo...then there’s no reason for people to believe it’s an instrument to challenge the status quo in America.” – Van (51:25)
• “Mike Lee, have you ever had a good session? Like a really good session?...If you had, there would be no way you could want to get rid of [porn].” – Van (64:28)
• “If you can’t keep the same energy for somebody that made a movie you like, then you definitely ain’t keeping it for somebody’s uncle, somebody’s brother...that’s hurting women...I’m starting to feel like a bunch of that shit...is bullshit.” – Van (103:53)
• “This man has reportedly shown exactly who he is, a liar. And the fact that knowing that, you still find something within yourself to defend it is despicable, disgusting...” – Rachel (104:52)

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Timestamps at a Glance

• 00:02 – Live show reflections & “what if” comedy
• 06:56 – TikTok’s “gingers are Black” meme and cultural reflections
• 19:41 – Halle Bailey/DDG custody and abuse allegations
• 34:18 – Meghan Trainor, body image, and authenticity in celebrity culture
• 49:19 – DNC youth suppression and party politics
• 59:52 – Republican federal porn bill and artistic censorship
• 75:08 – Diddy sex trafficking trial: legal deep dive with Yodit Tewolde
• 100:59 – Reflections on responding to allegations in the culture

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Tone & Takeaways

The hosts mix sharp humor with cultural critique, tackling serious topics (sexual and domestic violence, gender politics, and representation) without losing their approachable, witty tone. Listeners get context, legal expertise, and layered perspective — plus the kind of directness and vulnerability that makes Higher Learning a reliable voice in contemporary Black discourse.

Listeners will come away with: deeper insight into trending debates, legal clarity on the Diddy trial, and a call to consistent, principled accountability both in personal reflexes and public culture.

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(Advertisements and non-content segments are omitted.)

Transcript

[A]

Yo, yo, yo, Thought warriors. What is up? Higher learning is on.

[B]

Is Ivan Lake Jr. And it's me, Rachel, and Lindsay.

[A]

Rachel. We're still basking in the glow of the success of our first live show.

[B]

It was good. It was. It wasn't just good, it was fun. Right? I, I, I don't go. I don't know if I've been to a live podcast show. I've seen them, but I don't know if I've been. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't know if I've ever really been. No, I haven't been to one. I think I've just watched it. And I think my biggest concern was, will it translate? Will it be fun? I just wanted people to have a good time. People were taking time out of their day, spending their money to come watch us, and I just wanted people to walk away and say it was worth it. And I feel like they did. Plus, selfishly, we have fun.

[A]

Hey, we had a lot of fun. I kept thinking about something after I left the show.

[B]

What did you think about?

[A]

What? If I would have shit my pants on stage.

[B]

Well, why would that have happened? No, no, no, no, Van.

[A]

Okay, What?

[B]

That's not a normal thing.

[A]

Because I wanted to do something. I want to do a somersault tumble. When I first got on stage, I wanted to run. I wanted to get on stage.

[B]

It's my first time hearing this.

[A]

Roll over, like, roll over, do a somersault tumble.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

But I was imagining doing the somersault tumble and then it going, well, yeah. And then I was imagining doing this somersault tumble, and as I tumbled, shitting my pants. And I'm thinking to myself, what would I have done? Would I have continued to do the show or would I have run to the back and taken care of it because I don't have another pair of pants, you know, I don't have another pair of pants on me. Would the audience have preferred me continue to do the show or leave?

[B]

I'm gonna need you to forget the audience for a second.

[C]

What would Rachel have done? Okay, I'm the one closest to you.

[A]

So what?

[B]

Not only do I have to see it, I have to smell it. No, no, no, no, no, Van. First off, I don't know. This is the first time I'm hearing about the somersault. Highly inappropriate, highly unnecessary. Didn't need to do it. Simple walkout and a wave was fine. Tip of the hat.

[A]

Can I be honest with you guys? I'm sick of the control. If I want to do a somersault Wait, serious. If I want to do a somersault, you don't tell me I can't do it. I'm good. If I want to do the somersault, I do the somersault. See what I mean?

[B]

You know what, Van? Do the somersault, shit your pants, do the whole thing. But if it's even a 1% chance that that's possible. I've done numerous somersaults. Never felt like that was going to happen to me. I think that you should reconsider. How about that? Let me not tell you what to do. Let me simply suggest that you reconsider.

[A]

My. My question is this. If I would have shit my pants, and Ashley's here as well, we also have CT in the back. If Ashley's here as well, if I would have shit my pants, would it have been better to finish the show? Because we gotta cancel the show. If I ship my pants up there because I can't get another pair of pants, the show has to be canceled.

[B]

Correct.

[A]

So would it be better to finish the show or to walk off stage or you're doing the show by yourself. If this would. By the way, I do this all the time. Every time something goes well, I always get into the catastrophe state of my mind after and go, Jesus Christ, the worst thing could have happened. You know.

[B]

I am a prepared for the worst person too. So I think of what could have gone wrong. That is a thought that never has entered my mind. But let me tell you, it would have been a one person show. Whether it would have just been you because I couldn't take it anymore, or it would have just been me because you needed to escort yourself. But what I will say is that. Escort yourself out. I will say I think some people might argue, could argue that they would have gotten their money's worth by watching already.

[A]

If I shit my pants.

[B]

If you shit your pants. I think some people could say, maybe not those in the front, first five rows, but I think some other people could have been entertained and said, you know what? This was worth it. It would have been our last show probably, but they would have thought it was worth it, would have been the top.

[A]

What do you think about the whole shitting of the pants?

[D]

I think that Fergie used to shit and pee her pants all the time on stage, but that never stopped her. All right, so you should just keep her.

[B]

What?

[D]

Yeah, she used to pee her pants all the time.

[C]

Wait, what?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Hold on.

[A]

I've never heard of this.

[B]

Hold on. So when she was singing The Star Spangled Banner. Is that why she sounded like that?

[D]

I don't know if it happened during that one, but possibly. But she used to pee her pants all the time on stage.

[A]

Fergie pees herself.

[D]

I don't know about shit.

[A]

Fergie peed her pants while performing let's get it Started. She pees her pants. She pees her pants on stage.

[B]

Let's get started.

[A]

Listen, that's crazy.

[B]

Was it a one time thing, Ashley, or was it. It's happened a couple times.

[D]

Yeah, it's happened a couple times.

[A]

But they say that this was because she was on crystal Meth.

[B]

Oh, what source is that?

[A]

I don't know if I mentioned Vice. Vice has it. She's talked about it in interviews. Peeing her pants.

[B]

But not the crystal meth part.

[A]

Well, the crystal meth part. I mean, it's well known that she had an addiction problem.

[B]

Oh, I didn't know that.

[A]

But I'm not. That's not the reason that I would have peed my pants or shit my pants. It just would have happened. I don't know why it would have happened. It hasn't happened a long time, but it just would have happened.

[B]

Well, thank God it didn't and the show was a success and we don't have to worry about that now. I am disappointed that you did not take your shirt off like you promised. The people. You said that if you brought race, it might have been a convenient.

[A]

Nobody reminded me.

[B]

I actually talked to you about it before I said that we were in the green room.

[A]

Nobody reminded me that I needed to take my shirt off. I would have done it. You guys think I care about that? Like nobody would have. Nobody reminded me that I needed to do it. I completely forgot. Okay, Totally forgot.

[B]

Oh, go ahead.

[A]

It's on you, nigga.

[B]

Can I. This. I'm about to change the subject because this is something I saw right before I hopped on that's going has been going. And I've seen it, I'd say the past few days. I wonder if Ashley's seen it, see it going around on TikTok and I'm wondering what your thoughts are, if you have a strong opinion one way or another. Have you seen the trend where gingers are saying that they're black? And not only are they saying it, black people are sending them messages of praise. Black people are welcoming them in. And I'm wondering what you think about it. Are you bothered by it? Are you in on the joke? You're like, oh, people are just joking. Or are you kind of like, really, this is what we're doing.

[A]

I don't care. I have to reserve a space for me not to care about a couple of the things. It seems like silly. It seems like fun, silly, fun, fun stuff. I don't care. I'm not gonna be up in arms about every single thing. I do not care. It doesn't bother me. Seems like the kids are having some fun. Let the kids have fun if they wanna have some fun. When I say the kids, I mean people younger than me, which is basically everybody. It seems like they're having some fun. Let them have some fun. I'm not gonna be bothered. But I will tell you this. This opens up the opportunity for us to have a conversation that. About something that I have noticed in my years of looking at women that no one seems to talk about. I feel like, on average, ginger white ladies are thicker, they're curvier than regular white women. When you would see a ginger white woman, like a white lady with red hair, she normally be a little thicker, they're a little curvier. And I was wondering, I always wondered if there was some connection between the gingerness and the fact that there's a little bit more hips and ass to the woman. If it was an Ireland thing, if it was some kind of whatever. But when I would see a ginger lady and they would always be like a little. They're a little thicker. This has nothing to do with the black thing, but if they want to take that trend and improve that, I'm with that. But other than the whole thing, I don't care. There's so many things I have to not care about. I don't care about some of these things. And so I don't care that they're doing this. Some people are mad, though.

[B]

I have not seen the correlation at all to the ginger and the thickness. No, no. Several. And I don't even know if I know. Some people don't even like the term ginger. So I'll say redheaded.

[A]

But talking about true redheads, though.

[B]

True redheads, yes. I've seen. I know several. Not seen the correlation. But what I will say is I actually see more adults doing this and I see them talking to their kids, calling themselves, calling the kids black queens and stuff like that. Some of it I get is I get the silliness of it. I get to joke. My only thing is when things go on for a little bit longer, they start to go too far. And I'm getting. And I'm tired of seeing it all over My timeline, because I think it's going. It's starting it as you would say. It's right there. It's right on the line. It's right on the line. Right on the line. That's all I'm gonna say. Just curious if you've seen it, because I know you're not on. You're not on the tick tock.

[A]

Maybe you need to change up your algorithm. Like Miles.

[B]

What happens is I see it and then I go down a dark hole and now it's in my. And now it's in my algorithm.

[A]

So then it's your first.

[B]

It's not the first time I heard it. Well, when you're talking about black folks, I'm gonna start looking at it. I'm sorry, I wanted to see what all the talk was about anyways.

[A]

Ashley. That's a clutch pull with a spurge thing, by the way. I'm into it.

[D]

Thank you. Thank you. Oh, by the way, I do have an opinion on the ginger thing.

[A]

Go for it. Ashley.

[B]

Ashley, please.

[D]

Yes, I do not agree. I think the gingers are.

[B]

This is. That's.

[D]

I don't even know if that's the right terminology for this, but I think the gingers, the redheaded American folks, they are the black people of white people. But I don't think that should count.

[B]

Towards being an actual black person. And that's how I like it, Ashley. I like it. I like it. I know that they had a rough go around in their own community. I know that they can be bullied or isolated because of the red hair. That can happen. But you're right, that doesn't make them black. Exactly.

[A]

Blackness can't be attached to like hardship. Just cause you have it tough, that mean you black. I don't like that shit. You know what I mean?

[B]

That's the joke.

[A]

I'm looking up redheads.

[B]

You know what it is too? It's like, why, We've talked about this in other ways, but why do we always have to be like, you're mistreated? Come on in.

[C]

We.

[B]

We'll take you in. We got your back. Just. No, like, if I'm taking off the joking hat and I put on the serious hat, why do we always have to do that? Maybe the one time joke was funny, but then like the keep going on and black people, like, I'm serious, like redheaded people are like, black people are sending me encouraging messages to lift me up saying, you're not. You're isolated over here. Come on into our community. Why do we always have to do that. That's the only thing.

[A]

Well, I think that comes from a good place. I think that black Americans, to me, they look at the world. Look, this is a broad generalization. They look at the world through an almost aspirational sense of fairness, which is why it's sometimes difficult to get, at least for me, when I'm talking to some members of my community or some people that I know, they revert back to what is fair, even out of context. Meaning if I'll have conversations with people and it'll be difficult for me to put things in a historical context that shows why there are certain disparities and say, okay, this is fair for us or for somebody based on the unfairness that has existed in the past, they just go, no, like, fair is fair and they wanna believe in that. Right. So when they see other people that are getting fucked over, they look at the world through how they should. How they feel like we should be treated. Look, man, black people don't get credit for a lot of things. I feel like black people see the inherent beauty in other cultures, for sure. They love when you doing your thing, they love when you're singing your song. And they love when they see the beauty in other people. They see the beauty in other art. And they want things to be better, particularly black Americans who have been treated poorly. So when they see people that are being fucked over, they go, hey, if there's nowhere else to sit, you can come sit with us.

[B]

All right. I'm going to commend you on your positivity. I appreciate you're not wrong at all. And I do think that that is.

[C]

The beauty of black people.

[B]

And we are very much so. We one of them. Yes. And I think when you've been persecuted or mistreated, you understand it on a different level. And you don't want to see that happen to other people. If I'm going to be negative about it, I'm going to look at it from the other side. I think that letting so many people in or giving them a seat at the table or past, there needs to be some level of gatekeeping. And we let people become too comfortable thinking that they can be one of us. I'm just saying I'm just giving the other side of it. Just giving the other side of it.

[A]

You know, I agree with that. I'm saying it comes from a good place, but it's also. It's what I love about our people, but it's not. It's sometimes not war minded. And unfortunately, the American cultural Experience, when you look at it through the most cynical lens that you can, it is a battle. It is a battle for protection and survival of your culture. And if you let your guard down, people will take your culture, they will exploit your culture, they will criminalize your culture. And you can't let that happen. And the only way to. To not have them do that is for you to fight for. Seems like that shouldn't be the thing. But you gotta fight for it. You gotta fight for your culture. You gotta fight for the preservation of it and all of that. Now, I'm not saying that you fight for the superiority of it, not at all. Which is, to me, the difference between the black experience here and this thrust of white cultural centrality that we're seeing now. They want to centralize everything in white culture. They want to say that the only way to have an advanced, competitive United States is if white culture is centralized and is the ruling faction in America. That's not what I'm talking about. I'm not talking about orienting everything around one group of people, which is what I feel like is argued by a lot of these far right places. Hey, you can't fly a plane unless the plane is piloted by a white guy. You can't have a bank unless the bank president is white. You can't do all of that stuff. We're the only people. I'm talking about our cultural inventions and the things that we've done and the contributions that we've made and the hardships that we've endured. Be something that is important to the evolution of America, to the story of America, because if not, they just won't tell it. So that's the battle. That's the war. And that's why we can't say, you know, everybody's a part of it. And everybody's come in without any cultural understanding. Because by the time you come in and you teach them how to dance, then they come back and they go, let me explain to you how Timothee Chalamet invented the percolator.

[B]

Um, yeah. It also just taps into this dire to be acceptance accepted and this excitement. Oh, you want to be like, oh, we just so. Willy. Like some people in the culture are just so.

[A]

You know, at the end of the day, we just want to. We just want to have. We want to be able to have fun with everybody. We really do. We want to be able to, like, we. We don't feel the need to dominate you guys. We want to be. We want to. We wanna really. We want everybody to come to the cookout. Really? Like, we, like. We want everybody to come to the cookout, but we let y' all in the cookout and then y' all start changing the recipes. Yes, we let y' all in the cookout and then y' all start adding quinoa to the red beans and rice. And before you know it, the story of Miss Annie, who invented the red beans and rice, is now the story of Karen McGillicuddy, who came up with. With. With the. With the quinoa red beans. We can't do it. We can't. We try.

[B]

We tried, McGillicuddy. It's great.

[A]

Quick hitters, Ashley. Let's go. This episode is brought to you by Universal Pictures. Would you sell your soul for greatness? What would you be willing to sacrifice? Find out on September 19th in the new Jordan Peele produced horror film Him Only in theaters. Starring Marlon Wayans as the greatest football player of all time and Tariq Withers as his up and coming protege. Directed by Justin Tipping and produced by Monkey Paw Productions, Never Meet yout Idols, him hits theaters September 19th. This episode is brought to you by Hyundai. Who says you can't be the topic of conversation for all the right reasons. The Hyundai Tucson hybrid pairs bold presence with advanced technology and sleek style. It's everything you didn't know you needed in an SUV and then some. Okay, Hyundai. Visit HyundaiUSA.com to learn more.

[D]

Okay, first quick hitter is. Hailey Bailey has got a restraining order against rapper DDG because he's been violent, reportedly allegedly. She says, throughout our relationship, Darryl has been and continues to be physically, verbally, emotionally and financially abusive towards me. I'm seeking orders to protect myself and our son Halo from his ongoing abuse. What do y' all think about this?

[A]

I don't know what to think. I don't know very much about this. Um, but, yeah, I. I remember when they had their relationship, when they were together, it was a relationship that people seem to really be into. This is, like, for a couple of generations behind us, like, a really big deal that I. Yeah, well, not for you. For me, I'm 45 years old. These people are, like 20 years younger than me. Like 20, 25 years. I don't know how old these people are. These people are young. So it. I don't know what to think. I know that this seems to be something that the younger version of blacks are really invested into. She had a lot of evidence that went along with this. I saw there's. She had chipped her tooth. She had bruises on her. I know that there is a custody situation here. And I will say this, particularly when there is custody stuff that happens. You see these types of allegations made, because when there is a custody case, case between two people, they are going to bring up the worst things that they can say about the other person in order to make the case to the judge about where. Why they should have custody of the kid. We've seen this before.

[B]

I like the way you're phrasing it.

[A]

That's true.

[B]

I wouldn't say that they're bringing up the worst things. I think that it might just be. I mean, they're obviously horrible things. I guess I would just say it in. They're saying things that they never said before. There's a reason that she has to seek sole custody, which she was granted in addition to the temporary restraining order, she was also granted in this time, sole custody of the child. But it's not bringing up the worst things. Like, I'm just trying to proof up my case. It's bad things have happened. It's gotten to the point where now I have to go public with it in order to protect myself and in this case, my child.

[A]

I mean, that depends on whether or not you. Let me tell you what I. Let me tell you why I say what I'm saying, okay? Like, I worked at TMZ for nine years, right? Like a long, long time. I say that all the time. And so I saw all of these types of cases. And I'm not just talking about from the lady to the guy. I'm talking about from the guy to the lady. Like, from the guy to the lady. This woman is a terrible mother. She's never around for the kid. She's always out working. She takes the kid to places where she parties and does drugs and gets high and does all of that stuff. Jeannie. Jeannie and Jeezy, right? Jeannie and Jeezy, all right? They're going through a divorce now. It's not me and Jeezy are happy or whatever. He's a good father. Let's do this. It's. Jeezy is walking around the house with an AK47. Jeezy is all this so. And then from his standpoint, it's gonna be like she's consumed with this, she's consumed with that. She's a liar. She's. It's infidelity, all of that. I'm talking about in the grander scheme of things, not looking into these people's relationship and saying who is right and who is wrong. I'm Saying typically when custody is at the center of something like this and there's a breakup and there's a kid involved, and particularly when it's two public figures, what you start getting from each of them is how terrible the other person is. And so, like, when I kind of see this stuff in the custody case, it doesn't make me say that it's any less true. But I have to be honest that I've seen a lot of this and insane it. That's typically the way that it comes out.

[B]

Well, you can bring up things on both sides where it's like you just don't know, right? That's. That's what this says. Which is why you started off saying, like, there's not a lot to say or you don't really know, because we're just getting. We're just getting the information that she's putting in this temporary restraining order, which is like she needs relief immediately. Which was granted. And she submitted evidence, her evidence. A judge agreed, awarded her full custody, I believe until July 2nd is when the next thing is going to happen. But you brought up the age thing and saying you don't really know that much about them or this couple because they're 20 years younger than you. And I think what's sad is that when I look at the things that are surrounding that we do know so far, it's like it doesn't matter if you're 45 or you're 25. It's like the same stuff over and over again. You don't know what goes on behind closed doors with people's relationship. This was a couple that was praised. You know, he's big in the streaming community, millions and millions of followers. When they got together, she had not. A Little Mermaid had not come out yet, but she was filming it. In the process of it, her star has only gotten bigger and bigger. Color Purple, a Little Mermaid. So many opportunities. And it seems like their relationship began to deteriorate after that. Don't know why, don't know. Can only assume certain things because we don't know what goes behind closed doors. But the other thing that is sad is the damage that's being done. I would say to her reputation in the streaming community, you have once again, it seems like. And it doesn't matter if you're 45 or 25, it's like man versus woman, you've got. And we don't know what's true and what's not true, but you've got immediately this comes out, becomes public. DDG is On a streaming.

[A]

Stream.

[B]

Is streaming. Is streaming with Aiden Ross.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

When he gets this information, convenient and immediately, Aiden Ross is coming to his support, demonizing Halle, demonizing the situation. And automatically, without any. Without knowing anything, believing ddg. And he's not the only one. You had a lot of men in the streaming community, which is male dominated, automatically saying, we believe ddg. We stand by him. And that shouldn't be the response. And it happens. No matter what age you are, you automatically see people take sides and it becomes a gender wars thing. When the reality of the situation is this is a relationship that has gone bad for whatever reason, and there's a child involved at the end of the day, a young child, which is what makes this sad. And you kind of could see, like, if I do go back, one thing I do remember, we don't know a whole lot, but I do remember DDG coming out, using his streaming platform, millions of people to say that he's not able to see his son. And then all these people started developing opinions about Halle, about their relationship, and it became super negative. And now this is coming out. And what I would say is, I would like for this to not be. It will be, because it already is fought out in the court of public opinion. And let these people handle their relationship and do what's best for their child because it's done for them, it seems like. But how can this child grow up in a healthy household with two parents? That's what needs to happen.

[A]

I'm gonna say two things. You don't feel like you did what you just did a second ago, what you accused Aiden Ross of doing.

[B]

That I said what? That he went on this streaming.

[A]

Said. So I said, in this situation, when I hear things like this and they're bad things, but I typically expect to hear the worst things about somebody when there's a custody battle that's happening. And then it seemed like your posture was, well, that's not. You're not hearing it because of that. You're hearing it because you're. She's gotta do what she can do to save herself and her child. Which essentially seems like you're saying that all of the allegations that she's making are true. Right. So what I was essentially saying there was, hey, it doesn't surprise me that in this type of situation where there's a custody battle type of thing that you're hearing about all of this stuff. Because if there was anything like that or anything that was going on, this is the time when they tell you why we're not together. I'm sure he's gonna come out and say that she's some kind of terrible mom. That's not me saying that none of this stuff happened. I'm saying that she's a terrible mom. She had the baby here, she has the baby here. She's doing all of this. She's doing all of that. I'm sure all of that stuff's gonna happen. When him and his friends are getting together, those are the people that know him. They don't care about, like, what the truth of this situation is. They care about making him, like, look good.

[B]

So I think it's also, when I look at those guys and their history, they also are about, like, just making man look good, period. Like, that's a top. Like the streamers that have come out and said something like the academics and I don't even know the other names, but like, they have a typical Aiden Ross. They have a history of man over everything. Which is, which is, I would say was a little deeper than just being a friend to him. But to your original point that you made, I think after my pushback, the way you explained it gave more context to it. I just had an issue with you saying they're going to bring out the worst of each other because it to me gave an implication of just trying to bring out something bad to fluff it up. But then you explained it even more. And I don't have any issue with that. It's just the way you worded it at first. I, I just wanted to change the narrative a little bit.

[A]

Well, the point is when people get into this thing is when and then what's gonna happen? Okay, so let's go back to another case. Let's go back to the case of Keke Palmer.

[B]

And I knew you would bring that back.

[A]

Right. All of this stuff, it's public. It's all of this. This is not to say that none of that stuff happened. What's to say is you have a public relationship. And this is why, to your point, do not get too involved in these public relationships. There's no such thing as couples goals. The goal for every couple should be the individual, back and forth communicative, loving, participatory relationship that is defined and nurtured and cultivated by two people. And there should be no couple that you look to for any type of inspiration. Because when you get into interpersonal relationships, male, female, male, male, female, female, whatever, dynamics, there are so many things that go into them and you just have no idea. Well, that's exactly so, like, in that situation, I remember there was a time when people were praising Darius for like, holding the baby while Keke Palmer was out doing her thing. Then it came out, maybe that nigga didn't like holding the baby that much. And now. And now it's the whole thing. But they get to a point to where they have to parent together and fix everything after it's gone public. And now people are disappointed in either Keke or him because they're doing what they were always going to do, which is find a way to co parent in this situation. DDG and Halle Berry made their relationship very public. People believed something about it. He was buying her stuff for birthdays. They was getting each. It was all great. Look at the presents that they get each other. Look how they love on each other. Now you find out it wasn't such roses and chocolates. And you're disappointed because you've overindulged into the PR that they made you believe about their relationship.

[B]

Correct. The pr, the public Persona, the image is what. I'm living proof of it. No child's involved. But I totally understand that as authentic and as real as you may be, there are certain things that you have to protect and preserve for the nature of your relationship. So I totally understand that. The image that you present may not be what it actually is. Doesn't mean that it was always that case. Right. Like in my example, it was fine at one point and then it took a turn. Am I going to start now showing that turn? No, I'm going to try to preserve the relationship. If it doesn't work, it doesn't work. Now, I also know, to your point, what I was pushing back on. I also know when you're trying to win something in court or you're trying to prove something, I've been on the end of it where there were falsehoods. Not that you were saying that that's what's happening, but I've seen it to where there were falsehoods put in court documents in order. So that's why it's like you can't really speak to what.

[A]

That's what I was saying. I was saying people are going to say the worst thing and sometimes they're going to lie. So you know that they.

[B]

I said to your point, but I was just saying the way that you're phrasing it. I wasn't disagreeing with you. I was just like, trying to, like, change the way that it was phrased. But I have been a. I have been a part of it where I'm like, that is not true. That is actually a lie. You're saying that so you can get the most from this court situation. It's all very messy. It's all very hard. It's all case by case. I think the one thing that we can all agree on is that a child is involved, and that should be what the focus is and what we should be protecting out of all of this.

[A]

Ashley, let's go to Megan Trainor now.

[B]

Speaking of public for.

[D]

Meghan Trainor, is she not really all about that bass anymore? Meghan Trainor recently performed at the iHeartRadio's Wango Tango at Huntington Beach, California, Saturday. She performed all about that bass and changed her famous lyrics about how she's like, yeah, it's pretty clear. I ain't that size too. She changed it to, yeah, it's pretty clear. I got some new boobs, but I can shake it, shake it like I'm supposed to do. Is she allowed to do.

[B]

Is she allowed? Of course. And Meghan Trainor is not the first public figure that has changed, altered their appearance or lost weight, added something, deducted something, whatever it may be, for whatever their reason may be. And she won't be the last. I understand the disappointment that people might have in Meghan Trainor's situation because they may have liked Meghan Trainor because they saw themselves represented in her, whether it was an inclusion, whether it was body positivity. You know, there's an argument that's made, which I actually agree that all about that bass was a body positivity. It became kind of that kind of anthem. So I understand people being like, man, I really loved that I saw myself in you, and now I don't do that. Now you look like so many other people in Hollywood. But you can't fault her for deciding that she wants to change. I mean, and she, unlike a lot of other public figures, has head on addressed. And I think that's also who Meghan Trainor is. She's very real and raw and authentic. She's addressed it and said that she did it because she wanted to be healthier and a stronger version for herself and for her kids and for her significant other. And I appreciate that she said like, hey, I am using a weight loss drug. This is what I'm using. This is why I'm using it. And because so many other people will be like, oh, I work out four times a day, or I only eat 1200 calories, or I haven't done anything. And. And I appreciate that she's like, this is what I'm doing. I'm not trying to lie to you about it or whatever it may be or pretend I haven't changed. So I get both sides of it, but I don't think that she should be crucified. And for her changing the lyrics in the song, she changes it that she's. Well, she says she's not a size 2, but she says my new boobs. So she's acknowledging the fact that she changed her body. She got her new boobs. She's not hiding from what she did.

[C]

I don't know.

[B]

I think the outrage is a bit much.

[A]

I think the outrage is completely warranted.

[B]

Ooh. Ooh.

[A]

Completely warranted.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

So when I think of the body positivity movement, I think of a movement that is seeking to democratize a couple of things. Number one, acceptance of different body styles. But there's also a social aspect to this, right. I had a hair transplant, okay? So I went. I didn't like something about myself, so I went and had a hair transplant. Put the hairline back in, and we're on the road to our 20s as far as the hairline is concerned. You can only do that if you can afford it. Yeah, right, Right. So essentially the grossest part of the hair transplant was the people at the place were great. All of that stuff was great, very supportive. But I was looking for different tips on the recovery. And I was in a hair transplant Reddit, and one of the people in the Reddit said, going bald is for broke people. And that's interesting. It's an interesting thought that. And obviously it's been this way forever, right? That the Hollywood stars that people look up to, the influences that people look up to, the people that are able to maintain this youthful glow, we think that these people are blessed genetically in some way, and they're not. They have money, so they're getting the bags under their eyes removed, they're getting their skin tightened up, they're getting Botox, they're getting hair transplant. They're hair transplants. They're on Ozempic, they're on all of these different drugs, right? They're doing all of this stuff that is fine for them to do, however they can do it because they have the time to. For the post op procedure. They have the money, they have all of the. They have the time to even work out. I would say that telling everybody to go to the gym, that's dope, right? And you should have. You should go to the gym to be healthy. But it's a lot easier to go to the gym if you have personal trainers, if you have a gym in your house, if you're on set somewhere and there's a studio facility on set, if there's for you to work out. Because all of this stuff, it's different between what you're asking from a star or somebody with resources and somebody that doesn't have it. So I say all that because when the body positivity movement was coming around, in my opinion, it was. Was not for the people who were in the class of Meghan Trainor or even Lizzo. It was for other people who are in those bodies and they're trying. Right? They're trying to. They're working out. Some of them are trying to eat healthy. Maybe they're not. Maybe some of them are just living life, but they're in those bodies. They can't afford Ozempic, like, I'm on Manjaro. It's expensive. It's a thousand dollars a month.

[B]

It's a thousand dollars a month unless it's covered.

[A]

Unless. Unless it's covered. And then if it's covered, it's still expensive, right? So, like, for those people, like the Meghan Trainors and the Lizzos and some of the other people, they weren't just celebrities. They were revolutionaries. They were people who were, like, legitimately threatening the beauty status quo of this culture. And Ozempic killed that. And I'm not saying that. I'm not blaming Meghan Trainor or Lizzo or any of these other people for that, but it does kind of make it seem like they were full of shit. And so. And so. And so I'm just being honest. And this comes from somebody who struggled with body image issues his entire life, who's been the big guy, been the. That. Like, when I lost the weight, there was no Ozempic. And I'm not saying that there's anything wrong with wanting to see yourself differently, and there's certainly not anything wrong with wanting to be healthier. But there is a lot of damage being done to the body positivity movement when its spokesman, its spokespeople, should I say, and its anthems are now being changed and being disintegrated because there is a drug that helps you lose weight. And now you see that maybe some of these people weren't as proud of their bodies or it feels like. It feels like I can't say that. That they weren't as proud of their bodies as what they said that maybe they were. Just because, remember, there are Other people who cannot afford to do this. There are other people who can't go get their hairline taken care of. They gotta be bald. There are other people who can't do all of that stuff.

[B]

I agree with you. But I also think I agree with you in some ways. Right? I'm more disturbed and bothered by the people who lie about how they're losing their weight or how they're changing their bodies. I'm more disturbed by the people who were plus size, or were or whatever term you want to use and then are lying about, have the means, have the access, have the time to do what they need to do to lose the weight and then are lying about how they're doing it. That bothers me to my core. That is dangerous.

[A]

Why does that bother you? I'm interested in that.

[B]

Because you're. Because you're lying about it. You're pretending. I'd rather you say listen. And this is why I say it's case by case. I agree with you in some things about the damage that it's doing to the body positivity movement, because it does feel like while you never really want it to look this way, um, but if you're doing it because your health is in jeopardy, then I have no problem with that. And that's why I say case by case. You. We don't know. I don't know if Lizzo had health issues or Meghan Trainor had health issues. She's saying she did. I don't know if they did. So I'm not going to demonize you for getting on a medical drug because you needed to do it to preserve your health. We don't know those things. I'm bothered by the people who are not plus size who are doing it just because they want to be a size 0 or look a certain way on a carpet for an event. That kind of stuff bothers me. I'm bothered by the people who are lying about it. Because you're making it. You're putting out this false perception that if you work out this many times a day or you eat this, you too can look just like this, which is a lie. That's why that bothers me too. I don't like people lying to the public who are really trying to change, be on this path of healthy living, and you're lying about the way that you're doing it. You're cutting corners. But I do understand. That's why I say, I understand people being disappointed. But I can't sit here and say I don't Know if Meghan Trainor had health issues, I can't put her in the same boat. Try not to name names as other people, because I don't even know if they really did it. It's. It's just case by case.

[A]

But that's what I'm saying. I agree with you, but I'm gonna be honest about it. And I'm not saying that you're not. What I'm saying is it's not about Meghan Trainor or Lizzo or anyone else. Because I don't have a problem with any reason that anyone takes Ozempic or does anything, or whether or not they want to talk about it or whether or not they want to do it. Whatever you want to do to make yourself look and feel better, it's cool. I have no problem with anyone doing any of this stuff. Whatever you do to make yourself look and feel better, if it's healthy for you and if it's not hurting you, it's cool. You know, I've known guys for a long time that were on hgh, right? Like for a long time. Like, people very close to me that were on hgh, they're on hgh, they're like, hey, it's testosterone. It's whatever, whatever. And I remember back in the day, I was like, so you know, you're on hgh, it's gonna make everything grow. So if there are tumors in your body, those are gonna grow too. And it's not. It could lead to you developing or cancers that are in your body becoming more aggressive, you know, so whatever. We actually don't know. I don't know if Ozempic's been around long enough or Manjaro or any of these other things with Govey for us to know what the long term side effects of them are, right? Or if there are any. So I don't have any problem with any way that anyone wants to do it, how much they want to share with the public, how much they don't want to share. The only thing that I have a problem with is hope peddling. And if you are going to pedal hope, hope is, to me, the most powerful thing that human beings have. Hope. Hope undergirds everything. Hope in a different society, hope in a different world. Hope spawns belief, and belief changes humanity, right? And so the hope was that one day we wouldn't all have to look the same. Which was going to lead to the belief that people could go out and exist in society and have society look and approach them in a different way. Maybe that was all bullshit. Maybe that was never gonna happen. Maybe we were over our skis, all of that. Maybe that's the case. Right? But I mean, if you make yourself a symbol of that. And by the way, I'm saying this, not just in this case or in another case, we're having a big conversation right now about some plus size models and influencers, some plus size actors and actresses that now look totally different to where their entire identity before was body positivity. And someplace, somewhere right now, there is some person who can't afford to do that thing that is saying, oh, well, it does suck to be fat. And I mean, and that is. And if there's no. If we can't at least criticize or talk about the fact that that change affects people, then it makes the whole thing seem like a grift in the first place.

[B]

For sure. I can't imagine. That's why I said. The first thing I said is I understand the disappointment. I can't imagine being excited to see somebody who finally looks like you or represents who you are and then that all go away. I do. I just, I guess on the other end of it, I'm like, I don't know. Don't put your.

[C]

I don't know. I get it.

[B]

I get what you're saying.

[A]

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[B]

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[D]

Panel is pushed to scrap David Hogg's vice chair election. So the DNC Credentials committee passed a resolution determining that Malcolm Kenyatta and David Hogg's election in February was incomplete due to violations of the party's charter. It was brought by Kaylin Free, who is a Native American committee person from Oklahoma who lost a hog in one of the Vice chair races. What do you guys think about this happening right now?

[B]

I don't know what the hell is.

[C]

Going on over there.

[A]

Rachel doesn't know about the hog.

[B]

What's like, what's going on over there? Like, this is. This is just not. Just does not look good for the party. Chaotic. They can't get it together. It seems like they're turning against each other. It seems like they're suppressing rising leaders in the party on a technicality. Yeah, it just doesn't look good.

[A]

The Democrats are cooking the books again. Now, it seems to me that anytime somebody comes up with a semi populist disruption in the Democratic Party, that the halves of the party, the power of the party, seeks to cut that person off. Whether it be Bernie, whether it be the AOCs or the progressive wing of the party at any time, anytime anyone challenges the status quo of the Democratic Party, Democratic Party silences them. Now, here's the problem with this. I'm gonna be very pointed and direct in this. If the Democratic Party can't handle the status quo of their party being challenged, then there's no reason for people to believe that the Democratic Party is an instrument to challenge the status quo in America.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

If they can't handle disruption, then they can't be disruptive. And America needs some disruption right now. Because what is happening in the country right now is a direct and obvious push to double and triple down on orienting America around the white male orthodoxy, around the Christian right, around rule by one and not the rule of law. And it seeks to reorganize America in the near and distant future. And that has to be challenged by the Democratic Party. If they are who they say they are now, not who they say they are, and they're a bunch of stuffed suits who are taking money under the table from the same people who are essentially funding the other side of this thing, then we will know. Because every person that tries to push the Democratic Party forward will be silenced like they're trying to silence this young man right now. Look, is it, in my opinion, comfortable to watch David Hogg call out an 84 year old black guy? No, it's not. It makes me a little uncomfortable because I am black and I am taught to, and I'm talking about climbing here. I am taught to respect my elders, give my elders space, and make sure that my elders are able to say goodbye in the way that they have earned. Still though, there's gotta be somebody that says, these motherfuckers are too old. We need some new people. Let's kick them in the ass. The conversation has got to be allowed to be had. It has to be allowed to be had.

[B]

And that's the problem. I love that you say disruption, because that's exactly what the problem is. Was it Ben? Was it Ben Wickler? We had on here?

[A]

Wickler.

[B]

I felt like he was about disruption. I felt like he was about change. Felt like he was a voice. Now he lost to Ken Martin as to become the DNC chair. It feels like Ken Martin is trying to protect and preserve what this party has continued to be and why they're a problem right now. I said this when we did the live show, but David Hogg's job is to have a role in developing and promoting policy and platform. It is about. I mean, that is. It's not just that he's a younger voice. It's not that he's just a progressive voice. It's about recognizing what constituents want. And the fact that one. First, they tried to silence him on a technicality and saying, this is not what you're supposed to do as vice chair of the dnc. Now they're trying to kick him out on a technicality. And the question is, what's more important to you? What is David Hogg saying that's so wrong? What is he saying so wrong? Is it's making. It's. It's giving that. It's making you uncomfortable in the fact that you're going to lose your power and position within the party rather than being disruptive or rather than actually listening to the people and giving them what they want rather than understanding their concern so that you can take on a power position within this country. You'd rather just sit in your seat and hold your title than you rather would win, than you rather would speak to what the people want.

[A]

So we should say this. It seems as if, if you're listening to the podcast right now, that Rachel and Van are assuming that the push to redo this election is because of the backlash that David Hogg is receiving for the PAC that he's starting. The PAC is called the We Deserve Leaders, We Deserve pact, which is seeking to primary a lot of the longstanding seat holders in Congress that are Democrats. So some of the older, longer standing members, David Hogg is looking to replace them with younger, maybe more progressive, maybe more energetic candidates. Right. Which I have no problem with. That is not what they say they are doing, David. That is, we seem to be accepting David Hogg's framing of this. Okay, there's another guy that's involved in this, too. Malcolm Kenyatta, he doesn't seem to believe that. That because his seat, he's a vice chair as well, looks to be the election is gonna happen again as well. He doesn't believe that this is the reason why they're doing it. He says that David Hawke has a very. I think he said, a very casual relationship with the truth. So we should. So we shouldn't just assume and say that they're going after David Hogg because of some of his positions. Right. Well, we want to make sure that we leave space.

[B]

We have to acknowledge that there has been pushback and they haven't necessarily been pleased at the way that he has handled his role as Vice chair since he was elected. That we can acknowledge.

[A]

And from people that I've talked to, since the credentials committee has nullified the results of that election and they're seemingly going to redo it, people I've talked to have said there's probably not that much chance that David Hogg. Or how about this, because I haven't talked to the whole of the people. David, there are people who believe that David Hogg will not be elected as a Vice chair of the dnc. Now that that's probably out. Okay. I don't know how that works. I don't know the ins and outs of it. But I do know that it seems as if this is a kick in the ass for him, being a little outspoken about changes that he feels like needs to happen inside the party. Look, it's not about the right or the wrong of it, because when we're talking about politics, that is not really a consideration. Right or wrong, it's what's best for people. Right. But we need to be having this conversation in American politics. We need to be having this conversation and making it look like you can criminalize the conversation, like politically criminalized. The conversation is damaging to me, and it makes it seem like the truth. What I know to be the truth is even truer, which is the corporate wing of the Democratic Party is useless. Is like legitimately useless. And rather than actually push forward, change or address the problems, the inconsistencies and the fears that exist in the American political arena that those people will save themselves.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And they won't even believe it. Look, even if we're not having a conversation about getting rid of Rep. Clyburn or Rep. Waters or any of the elder statesmen that we have in the party who we adore, we definitely should be having a conversation about who's next.

[B]

Yeah, right.

[A]

Like, even if we're not having a conversation about jettisoning those people who've meant so much to so many. And I can understand the fact that that doesn't feel good, that that doesn't feel right, that that feels unceremonious, that feels. And wrong to do for a lot of people. Right, I get that. But we should at least be having a conversation about who's next, who we're empowering, who like. And I think that's fair. And if we can't have that conversation, it's all fucked up to me.

[B]

That's where we're headed.

[A]

Ashley. The Republicans are going too far. They keep this next one.

[B]

I can't abide by bad news for.

[D]

Baiters all over the U.S. yep. A new bill was introduced by Senator Muckley, a Republican, and he's going to create, or he did create, a bill that would federally ban pornography by redefining what qualifies as obscene under the law. Why'd he do this? Well, in a statement on X, Utah Senator Mike Lee said obscenity is not protected by the First Amendment. I'm assuming he has an accent. But hazy, unenforceable definitions have allowed pornography companies to infect our society, peddle smut to children, and do business across state lines unimpeded. Today I introduce the Interstate Obscenity Definition act with Representative Mary Miller, mind you. Mary Miller should be on our shit list. Establishing a comprehensive definition of obscene materials under federal law. This is a first and necessary step to stopping the people and companies that profit from degrading their fellow human beings and ruining countless lives. What do y' all think?

[B]

I mean, this affects Van, as I know you don't. You don't. You don't dabble in it like you used to. But as someone who used to be. I mean, you're obviously an advocate for it still. And as someone who's well versed in the industry, I mean, I will say. I mean, I can say it's disappointing at the way that they look at sex workers. That's a legitimate job that people have that they are able to profit off of, make a living off of. And the fact that they're trying to take away and shut down a whole industry. Because, I mean. Well, here's my question. Would this impact only fans?

[A]

I mean, sure.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Interstate obscenity definitely seems to modernize the standard for prosecuting explicit content online, replacing a decades old test established by the Supreme Court. You know, this is stuff that Larry Flynn had been talking about back in the day. These are things that had you know, made their way through the courts decades ago, 1973. And as long as people right here, it seems as if Michael Lee is making this about what he thinks is obscene. So I don't know. But what were you saying, Rachel? I didn't mean to get in.

[B]

No, no, no. I mean, I was just saying. It just goes to my point, okay? Only fans too. Like, so many people make a living off of this. That's their right to be able to do so. I think it's going to put a lot of people out of work. Like, forget the. Just the people that experience pleasure from it. They're people who make a full living off of this, that provide for their families off of this. And the fact that this is something that they're trying to put out there, which the way things are going could easily move through to possibly being, you know, coming to fruition, that's disappointing. But for you, I mean, you must. This must have hit you hard, coming to fruition.

[A]

It's gonna be a lot less people doing that. I wanna start this off by saying this. I. I understand that it's probably a point to maybe that porn's too accessible to some people that don't need to be watching porn. I can get that. I can understand that. I can understand that, you know, in some places there might be people, children, whatever, who are looking at porn who don't need to see it. And I am all for making sure that pornography is hard for minors to get an excess and participate in. As far as watching and stuff like that, I think it's too much. It's too easy. It was a lot harder when I was a kid. We did was a lot harder when I was a kid. And I get that. I understand that. But I don't think that that's what this is about. I think that Mike Lee's bill is an attack on porn. I really do. And I would say to Mike Lee, have you ever had a good session? Like a really good session? Mike Lee. I'm talking about 30 tabs open.

[B]

Thanks.

[A]

Olive oil, coconut oil concoction. It's a Saturday morning, you're by yourself. You're going from tab to tab to tab to tab to tab, because each tab keeps getting better. Have you ever completely relaxed yourself with the dun dun? Have you ever been in a state of euphoric glee, going from different genres, different races, some higher production values, some people's living rooms? Have you ever really experienced porn? Have you ever really enjoyed porn? Have you really ever made porn a thing in your life? Because if you had, there would be no way you could want to get rid of it. I'll tell you right now that there are men in places that made better decisions because they peeled one off before they went out into the world. There are guys right now that were going to do something stupid that threatened their families, that threatened their relationships, but they peeled one off and then it got that blissful 10 to 15 minutes where you're actually kind of like a girl and you don't have all of these raging things telling you to go do something stupid. Those guys are better for it. I could make an argument that pornography has saved some marriages, saved some families, and kept it, got the poison out of the body.

[C]

What?

[B]

Saved marriages?

[A]

Saved marriages. We always talk about the fact that porn has destroyed marriages, but what about the guy that's somewhere and he sees the old fling and she's like, oh, what's going on? He doesn't want to do it. He knows it's too much, he knows he shouldn't. And he boom, bop, pow, pow. And he ends up in some hot wings instead of in her. Mike Lee doesn't know anything about that. Mike Lee has no idea. The fact that pornography, porn, when consumed in a responsible way, can be a part of someone's ritual life. I'm not standing for it. I'm asking for your support. Rachel, will you stand up for porn?

[B]

Ashley, what's the next I stand up for sex workers.

[D]

Also, really quick, I want to clarify that this is not going to just affect pornography.

[B]

It will probably affect all artists.

[D]

So there was three sex scenes in sinners that would immediately. They would immediately probably ban sinners from being in theaters due to this bill. So it's like it's not just pornography.

[A]

So as I was clowning, Ashley comes in with a great point. And the reality is this, who. This is about porn. And really about all the people who I love who were very instrumental in my life. Midori, Ebony Ays, I could name more. This is about porn, but this is also about letting one group of people define what obscenity is.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

And do you want Mike Lee, senator from Utah, telling you what you can jack off to?

[B]

Well, to Ashley's point, that's not even necessarily what it is. It's going to be something that is open to interpretation. There's not going to be an exact definition on what is considered obscene. It's going to be based on the Mike Lee's, a certain group of people to what? In the same way that the book ban is Just being taken out of control. That's exactly what we're going to see artistically when it comes to nudity in movies, sex scenes in movies, sexual conversations in movies, movies that deal with subject matters surrounding sex. That's the more, not the more because still people, there's an industry that could just wipe out the way people make a living. But that's also what makes it just, I guess even more widespread. So Ashley, thank you for bringing up that point. They will be able to take this definition and use it as a weapon in ways that they want to that fit their narrative. And then you know what's going to happen? It's going to be like, it's going to be similar to like pastors that come out that are, that condemn the queer community, that condemn adultery, but then are all secretly doing it. You know what I mean? It's like, it's going to be like Handmaid's Tale, Gilead, but then they have Jezebel's where all the commanders still go to, to do all the things that they fight against. Like that's what, that, that's what's going to end up happening.

[A]

So there's this, there's this list of towns pornhub by states. Let's see where Utah ranks.

[B]

Ooh, but it's not porn. To Ashley's point, that's the problem. It's not just porn.

[A]

It's not just porn. Don't try to take the focus off porn.

[B]

But I think that that's what's, that's the, that's Ashley's redirecting our mindset. Because it's because there will be people who say, well, I don't watch porn and I don't agree with it. And they don't think about how like, will you teach sexual education in schools anymore? Will people just be run, Will you, will you do like, do the culture that I was grown up in where an abstinence poster was just posted on my wall and that was my sexual education. And you have people running around confused, not knowing what to do with their bodies or un understanding their bodies. Like this, this could go, it just could be so widespread, unending.

[A]

So I'm looking at the, the, I know, but I don't want to take the focus off porn because to me we sing. Well, no, only reason why though is because I want people to come to terms with the fact that they like to watch people fuck. I don't like, I, I, I. You know what? This is why I'm weird, by the way. I'm Weird. It's okay, guys. I get weirded out by people who get weirded out. Like, the fact that people. I do like, I get weirded out.

[B]

By people that get uncomfortable.

[A]

Yeah, I get weirded out by people. Cause I start to think, like, what's the big deal? Like, it makes me not trust you. Like, I start to get weirded out by people. Now, I know that you had the abstinence poster in your room, right? And you come from the purity culture thing, right? I get it. I understand it. And I understand that a lot of people are raised to believe that their bodies are these disgusting, icky things and that they can't express themselves.

[B]

But.

[A]

Okay, that's definitely what it is. That's definitely what it is.

[B]

Keep going.

[A]

That's 1,000% what it is. Um, but those people, to me, I really feel like, in a way, I'm like, those people are the bad people. To me, they are. I'm gonna be honest with you. I go too far. On the other side, those people are the bad people. Because those people are the people that want to, like, restrict you and control you and put their morals and values on you and. And put the way they see the world on you and all of that stuff. Those people are the bad people. That's bad. It's bad to be uncomfortable with human sexuality. It's bad. It's bad. It's a bad thing. I think it's bad. I think it's part of the arbitrary rules that we make that.

[B]

I'm not disagreeing.

[A]

To me, the. And this is. I mean this. To me, the uncomfortability surrounding that. It's one step from. Her skirt is too short. She deserved to be assaulted. I think all of that stuff is on the same continuum. I think all of that stuff. I think all of that stuff is on the same continuum. I think not being able to come to terms with. With desire and human sexuality, it makes it corrosive and mixes it with power. And now you feel like anyone that is in some way indulgent into, that is less of a person is less of a human, and you can assert and take from them, and it doesn't matter as much. And I just. It's weird. To me, it's bad. It's bad. All right. By the way, the number one porn search in Utah is lesbian.

[E]

This episode is brought to you by Prime. Prime delivery is fast. How fast are we talking? We're talking a cooler for your snacks, a folding chair, a Bluetooth speaker, and a six pack of your favorite seltzer. Delivered by tomorrow. Fast. Oh, yeah. Extra napkins, last minute guac bowls, backup phone chargers, even a replacement remote.

[B]

Fast.

[E]

I feel like I've ordered all of those things. We're talking everything you need for game day. Fast, fast. Free delivery. It's on prime. This message is a paid partnership with Apple Card. If there's one thing I'm going to make sure I pack for my summer vacation, it's my Apple Card. I can earn up to 3% daily cash back on every purchase, including fuel for my car and booking places to stay. Plus, I don't have to worry about fees, including foreign transaction fees, which is perfect when I'm planning to travel abroad. To get an Apple Card for your summer travels, apply in the wallet app on your iPhone today. Subject to credit approval. Apple Card issued by Goldman Sachs Bank USA, Salt Lake City Branch. Variable APRs for Apple Card range from 18.24% to 28.49% based on creditworthiness rates as of July 1, 2025. Terms and [e-mail] now we have the.

[B]

Diddy trial is underway and we have talked a little bit about it. When we were talking about jury selection and kind of what we expected or maybe wouldn't expect, kind of talking a little bit about what we would see from the trial. But now the trial is underway. We haven't yet talked about it. We are on day four, I believe, when the opening statements were on Monday. And Van and I, you know, I am not a legal expert when it comes to this. I can admit that Van is not either. So we bring in our friend of the show, Yodi Tawolde.

[A]

I gotta be honest with y', all, man, real quick.

[C]

Rachel don't know how you do this.

[A]

No, Rachel don't know her own friend name. It's crazy to me.

[C]

Wait, what?

[A]

Rachel don't know her own friend name.

[C]

I'm actually really shocked in her. But, you know, my name isn't the easiest thing. I get it.

[A]

But my God, that's nuts.

[B]

Anybody who's close to me, I am the worst with, like, it doesn't matter how long I have known you, I am the worst when it comes to, like, saying names, pronunciations. Please.

[C]

Don't you have a pen? Do you have a pen?

[B]

I can. Oh, you're gonna make me do it.

[C]

Because I was gonna make you phonetic. Phonetically spell it that way. Okay. You know what I'm saying? Because I feel like the W kind of scares people in my name, my last name. So you. You want me to do you Want me to phonetically spell it?

[B]

Go ahead. Yes.

[C]

Okay, so T, E, H. So te. Well, well, W, E, L, L. And I say.

[B]

And I say wo. Uh huh.

[C]

Because there's an O. I get it.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

You sounded Alex and E and then.

[B]

D, E, H, de. So to.

[C]

Well, de. Hopefully that's.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

You're African. You're African, right?

[C]

I'm African, yes. Van, we're so.

[B]

See, Van's over here trying to make it seem like he's a better friend. And he loves to throw me under the bus when it comes to this. I apologize. It's no excuses.

[C]

Well, Van, why don't you intro me? Can you say my last name?

[A]

Yoda Toel Day.

[C]

Oh, oh, he did value.

[A]

I introduced you a bunch of times.

[B]

You just gave him a whole lesson.

[A]

Like, like I've introduced you a bunch of times. Now I normally say to. But I've like, but, you know, fair. But the, the name that was said but before the podcast was somebody else's name. Like it was something different to what Rachel was. Like.

[B]

Oh, you know what?

[C]

Y' all are not calling.

[B]

I'm not even gonna call you by your first name anymore. I'm just gonna say last name because I will never make this mistake again. All right. Anyways, apologize.

[C]

No, you're good, you're good, you're good.

[B]

Totally wrong. But you are here to talk about you've been keeping up to date with what is happening right now with the Diddy trial. We're getting a lot, a lot of piecemeal information here on social media. People who are going, you know, have their own YouTube or TikTok accounts kind of giving us their own rundown. But you're an expert, you've been following just first initial question, where we are right now in the trial, what's happening? What are the updates?

[C]

Okay, so the jury was impaneled on Monday like you stated earlier. The opening statements happened right after. And then the prosecution called two witnesses. One was the hotel security at the Intercontinental Hotel where that tape was, was made of Diddy dragging, beating, kicking Cassie in a hotel hallway. He went on the stand, he testified, he was the first witness. And then the second witness for the prosecution was a sex worker, one of the escorts that Diddy and Cassie had involved in these freak offs. The third witness, the star witness for the prosecution, Cassie Ventura, she spent about nine hours, a total of two days on direct. And today was the official start of the cross examination of Cassie Ventura. So she, right now, as we speak, is being cross examined by divvy's attorneys.

[A]

Oh, you expect this to be. I mean, Cassie is pregnant.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

She's about eight and a half months pregnant. You expect this to be a super aggressive cross from the defense. You don't?

[C]

No. In fact, a lot of the updates that I'm reading from, from the trial itself, because there are no cameras in federal court, says that the attorney who's a female, and that's strategic and optic. Right. That's a smart optical thing to do. Is that even a word? For optics purposes, they had to have a female defense attorney questioning Cassie. And what they described of her is that her tone is measured, calm and conversational. It had to be because Cassie already garnered or is garnering sympathy for being an abuse victim. Right. We saw it on the video. There's no debating that she's a victim. On top of that, she's eight and a half months pregnant, like you said, Van. And so with pregnant women, you handle them with kid gloves. So the gloves can't necessarily come off. And the defense attorneys have to be very, very careful not to turn off the jury because juries don't tend to like strategies like victim blaming. They don't want to do that. So if you turn the jury off and now they don't like you, the only person that suffers is Sean Combs. In fact, the defense had made a request before Cassie even testified to have her sitting in the witness box before the jury came in. They didn't want her walking towards the witness box as pregnant as she is, and then she gets sympathy before she even opened her mouth. The judge denied that request, had her walking, like every other witness, to the witness box. And so, yeah, there we have it.

[A]

This case was fast tracked. Would it have been smarter for Diddy and them to wait till after Cassia had given birth to have her on the witness stand?

[C]

It might not have been up to him. And Diddy has been without bail in jail since, what, last September?

[A]

He wants to get in jail.

[C]

I'm sure he wanted. He wanted to get this going.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

How effective do you think her testimony is? Because I see people really going back and forth on this. Some people are saying, oh, it's the strategy of the prosecution to, you know, garner sympathy with the jury because they can't deny some of the things that she's saying. But I guess the other part. Part of it is as the testimony that she's giving going towards proving the prosecution's case against Diddy.

[C]

Yeah. She's essentially the linchpin for their case. And I say that because she Was involved with diddy for over 10 years. So she is a treasure trove of information. She can describe in detail this system of abuse that she claims Diddy had over her life, her career. She could talk about the employees that he had, his inner circle that the prosecution claims he used to facilitate crimes, to cover up crimes. What I'm reading about Cassie's demeanor on the stand, especially on direct, is that she's able to concede to some bad facts. Right? Bad facts, meaning I was in love with him. I absolutely wanted to do the freak offs to make him happy. Where normally you'd have somebody who's super combative, like always trying to explain their decision making, but no, she was like, hey, I fell in love with him. He was a great guy, but could also testify to the abuse. And so she came off very confident. She's definitely not the 19 year old that Diddy met. She's a grown woman who has two children, a husband and one on the way, a kid on the way. And so she came off very credible. In fact, on cross examination, she's doing the same thing. The prosecution really wanted to highlight on direct all of the violence, the abuse, the threats, the manipulation, just the bad parts of the relationship. The defense is doing the opposite. They started off their cross examination with you and Sean. You and Sean Combs were in love for 11 years, right? Yes. And you loved him? I did. Do you believe he loved you too? Yes. So they're trying to paint this picture of a long term loving relationship, but it was jealousy fueled and it was. It was problematic. And so they're coming out the gates. Evidence of text messages, gushy text messages. For example, I love you so much, I'd fly wherever you needed me, whenever. That's from Cassie to Diddy. A year after they got together, Two years after they got together. I love you so much it hurts. That's Diddy to Cassie. So again, they're playing up a very loving relationship. The opposite of what the prosecution was doing when she was on the right. And that's to be expected.

[A]

All right, so let's talk about the trial. Let's get a more bird's eye view of it, because I think sometimes people don't know or people are confused about what exactly is on trial here. Okay. What exactly this trial is about. All right, first of all, he. I'm gonna ask three questions. One, can you define sex trafficking?

[C]

Okay.

[A]

Okay. Two, can you talk about exactly what the charges against Diddy are?

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And then how those charges are different than somebody who just has A freak nasty, let's get it going lifestyle.

[C]

All right, I'm not gonna remember all three questions. So the first one you want me to address are what? Let's go. So let's start with what the charges are.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

All right. Five counts. The leading charge, the most serious charge is a racketeering conspiracy charge because it carries a maximum penalty of life in prison. One count of that, two counts of sex trafficking by force, fraud or coercion. That carries a mandatory minimum of 15 years up to life. So if he were to be convicted of just that offense alone, he's looking at 15 years, nothing less. And then you got two counts of transportation to engage in prostitution. So let me just take the racketeering conspiracy and define that for people. Okay. The prosecution is saying that Diddy ran a criminal enterprise. He was the leader of this enterprise, not an individual who's working alone. The prosecution has always contended that he had an inner circle of staff, workers, bodyguards, high ranking employees that helped facilitate crimes and to help cover it. Right. So we heard testimony from Cassie, for example, on direct where she talked about bodyguards who stocked these rooms for freak offs with lubricants, condoms or baby oil, all the stuff that they needed, paid people off when they needed to be quiet. So again, crimes are being committed. They're helping facilitate these crimes because the freak offs were illegal and then also the COVID ups.

[A]

Real quick, what's illegal about a freak off?

[C]

The freak off because he was. We get into the transportation and the sex trafficking. So basically hiring prostitutes to come in across state lines and have sex, not to mention sex by force, fraud or coercion. So we're going to get into that.

[A]

Okay. Okay.

[C]

The other piece of the racketeering is that they have to also prove that this enterprise engaged in a pattern of illegal activity. What they're alleging is arson, forced labor, sex trafficking is underneath that umbrella. Obstruction of justice. So many other different crimes. The arson that stands out for me is the claim that he blew up Kid Cudi's car. Arson right there. Okay. Sex trafficking by force, fraud or coercion. The prosecution needs to prove that Diddy recruited, transported, provided individuals to engage in commercial sex acts. What are commercial sex acts? Sex for money. That's what makes it commercial. Okay. And that he did it by force, fraud or coercion? We kind of had a sense of the force. Right. Because the video that pretty much spells it out. Right. He's physically abusing Cassie. And what Cassie testified to, she gave more context to that video. She was saying she left a freak off before it was over.

[A]

Super duper important. Yes, because the video itself is being painted as an isolated domestic violence incident. Cassie is saying that she was beaten because she left a freak off and she wasn't supposed to. That is really important. I don't think people are getting that so.

[C]

Exactly. So when you see the video, you're right. The defense attorney were saying this is a one off. This was an altercation between two people who were in a relationship for over a decade fighting about a private issue like infidelity is what they claimed and that it had nothing to do with racketeering or sex trafficking. So what the defense was trying to do with that video that was played over and over and over again by the prosecution is try to distance the video from the allegations in the case. What they're saying is that video demonstrates domestic violence. That is not what he is charged with and it doesn't prove the other crimes that he is charged with. So you're right, they're trying to remove that video from the allegations in the case. But what Cassie did on direct examination for the prosecution is provide more information about what happened before that altercation and what happened after. And what she said was they were there for a freak off. She left. I think she might have said that Diddy was in the shower which is why he had the towel around his body. So she left the freak off in a rush. She didn't even have her shoes on. You can see in the video she's trying to put her shoes on and he dragged her back. So yes, very important. Now where was I? Okay, so by force, fraud or coercion, that's a sex trafficking right Charge. Now coercion, people don't understand coercion. We understand force but coercion is a little blurry. Coercion can happen by non violent means, meaning a threat to your reputation. A threat to. A threat of harm, psychological harm. And what the prosecution was alleging and what Cassie testified to was that she was so afraid that Diddy was going to release footage of these freak offs. He recorded them, he had plenty of them on all these devices and she had that looming over her head. She was scared about her career. She was scared, was scared for her family. She was going to be humiliated. So she had that coercion and that pull to want to. No, not to want to do the freak offs because she was afraid that he was going to leak these, these, these videos. Transportation to engage in prostitution, essentially getting individuals to cross state lines for the purposes of prostitution, commercial sex acts. The prosecution alleges that freak offs happened in California, freak off. Florida, New York, even Ibiza. So you've got the interstate there and you've got international there. Now, what was the second question I went over?

[A]

Okay, I think you covered. I think you inadvertently covered it all. Yeah.

[B]

Those were all five charges, right?

[C]

Five. Those are five charges. But there's two counts for each of the two count the two charges. Yes, and one char. One count of the racketeering for five total.

[B]

You mentioned that we, everyone's been focusing and obviously we know why, on Cassie's testimony. But you mentioned that there were other escorts that have testified to. What have they said or do we know? Because I feel like I haven't seen anything about it that they said that has gone towards the case proving the prosecution's case.

[C]

So there was one escort. He was witness number two and he was testifying about Cassie, inquiring about his services. He thought he was actually going to be dancing for a bachelorette party. When he got to the door, she's wearing, you know, a red lingerie, high heels. Apparently Diddy was in the corner wearing a white robe. He had a bandana over his face and a hat. He didn't recognize Diddy initially, but the second he spoke, he said he immediately knew who he was. Cassie said something about this is what she testified to and what he testified to, that she said that she, her husband liked seeing her have sex with someone else. They started to massage each other, things, you know, escalated. They had sex and they utilized his services on more than one occasion. And then he also testified to seeing on a couple of occasions Diddy being physically violent towards her, dragged her by the hair to a different room of the hotel, heard what he thought was slaps, and then he came out of the room and he asked the escort if he was ready to resume. And this was after a beating. Right. He also testified that Diddy took a picture of his driver's license and said this is for insurance. When asked how he perceived that, he said a threat. So again, he is forcing sex trafficking by force, fraud, and I got to say, alleged. I'm not making an argument for either side, but this is what the prosecution is saying. This is how he was doing. He was committing sex trafficking by force, fraud or coercion. So he took a picture of this man's driver's license. The man also said that he felt like him and Cassie started to develop, to develop a certain level of friendship that he felt. When asked why he kept coming back, he stated that he wanted to make sure she was okay. He also felt like in those moments of violence, he couldn't help because he was afraid for his own life. So that's what he testified to.

[A]

So last thing I'll ask you, I know a lot of defense lawyers, people who are lawyers, defense lawyers, whatever. A lot of them seem like they, there's a. How can I put this? When you listen to them speculate, they seem to think that Diddy has a really good chance at acquittal. And they almost seem. The mind of a defense lawyer is very interesting. They like to get people off, I guess, just like, nevermind.

[C]

No, I wasn't promoting defense story. It's not about that.

[A]

Well, it seems like they come at a case from the standpoint of I could do this if I was in this situation, like there's enough to work with. And so I'm hearing a lot of people saying, yo, I think there's a chance at an acquittal here. I think that Diddy really has a good shot to get off here. And in a federal case, you normally don't hear people talk like that. Like, why do you feel like they're saying that? Are there holes in the prosecution's case here that could lead to an acquittal?

[C]

Yeah, for sure. Right. The main dispute here is whether this was consent or coercion. And what we heard from the defense attorneys in their opening statement, they kept repeating this one description about the accusers, that they were capable, strong adult women who were involved in consensual sexual relationships. So to prove that they were not coerced, that they participated willingly is, you know, the prosecution has a burden to do that. And so when you're watching these freak offs, which I'm assuming that the prosecution is going to play at some point and the defense is going to argue like, look, look in the video how they're enjoying themselves. They're going to make this argument that Cassie, an adult. Right. Who basically stayed in a relationship for over a decade, she had the opportunity to leave year one, year two, year three, all the way up to 10 plus years, they're going to make that argument. Do I think that they have a solid argument with regards to that? Sure. I think what you're hearing from defense attorneys is, I mean, their perspective from that position. Right. That's what they know. But it's not that they want to get someone off. It's really holding the prosecution to their burden. And some defense attorneys feel like federal prosecutors have abused this RICO statute, that usually when you hear about rico, it's applied to Mob bosses, like drug lawyers, right? You know, it's not, it's not, it's not for this. We've only recently seen that with Harvey Weinstein and that Jeffrey Epstein and now.

[A]

Diddy, I'm sorry, young thug as well.

[C]

And it's so far reaching you get to have all these prior bad acts be basically brought into this wide umbrella. And so they're basically saying that that's not fair, right. That a lot of these bad acts would have been statute out, right? Statute of limitations, but you can bring them in under this like wide umbrella of rico. So I think they're coming from that position as well. But I mean, I think people are having a problem grappling with the fact, because I remember hearing a defense attorney say this, that it's very far reaching for the prosecution to say that Diddy created all these companies, right? Like Bad Boy, Comb Spirits, Sean John, however many companies he has for the sole purpose of gratifying this weird sexual kink. I think that that's actually the wrong way to look at it. Do I think that he created a record company and all these other companies for the purposes of trying to commit crimes?

[B]

No.

[C]

But I do think that over time, let me say this, they can prove that over time it has evolved as a way to facilitate these crimes. Now Cassie testified that when she wanted to set up transportation or set of travel for a prostitute, an escort across state lines, she would call the company's travel agent. That is the way the prosecution is outlining this, that he is utilizing his resources, his, his status, his influence, his money, his power, his inner circle to help facilitate this. Cassie was saying basically he's got a machine behind him to, to carry this stuff out.

[B]

So yeah, last question for me. We talked about this when we were talking about the intro when this trial was just about to get underway of certain things that the jury may be expecting to see and how that could maybe be harmful to like the case because there's so much that's known about it. So it's like if they don't see this, then maybe they're like, well, he seems like this disgusting, abusive, violent person, but is he what they're actually trying to prove? So I'm wondering, and I don't even know if you know this, who else can we expect to testify on behalf of the prosecution? Like are we going to get an escort that says I too or somebody who attended a freak off? I too wanted to be in the music industry and I was promised if I did this then I would get this which never happened. Which I know Cassie kind of talked about her working on music and then it never came to fruition and stuff like that. Yeah.

[C]

I want to touch on the first part that you talked about with the salaciousness of this case. Right. And that's another thing, Van, why defense attorneys feel the prosecution has a weak case, because they're almost. They're leaning too heavily on the salaciousness of the case when really they need to focus on the actual elements of the crimes that they're charging Diddy and really connecting the dots. And I think they're going to try to connect the dots in closing arguments, but showing too much of the salaciousness of the case. For example, they showed still photos from the freak offs. And this was the first time anybody had seen a visible reaction from the jury. There was a woman who gasped and held her chest. There was a man who looked and looked away quickly. There was another one who wrote in a notepad. So there can be too much of that for the jury to the point where they're now turned off or maybe seeing it as a distraction from the prosecution because they can't prove their case. So that's another reason why I think defense attorneys feel they have a weak case because they would prefer going that route instead of really focusing on the technical aspects of the charges. There are more victims that were listed in the indictment. So Cassie was presumed to be victim number one. There's victim two, three and four. There are going to be employees, former employees of Diddy's that the prosecution is going to call and they're really going to give the specifics in terms of what their job description was, what they were doing, what they saw. Apparently there was one former employee that claims that he sexually assaulted her. So we're going to hear more of that from the prosecution. As far as the defense goes, I'm not really sure how they're going to. They don't have to put up a shred of evidence, you know? You know that. But they may put up an expert of some sort, you know, because they are saying they're conceding to the bad facts. The bad facts is that your client was violent, at least on one occasion. We saw on the tape that he was heavily addicted to drugs and a lot of the violence stemmed from drug use and jealousy. So it's going to be really imperative for the prosecution to really make a distinction between bad immoral conduct, weird, sexy, kinky shit, versus actual criminal conduct and why they are charging Diddy and why they need to convict him of the charges that they. That he is facing. And it's not because. Because the defense is going to argue they're prosecuting him for his sexual preferences, and they've got to make it clear that they're not. So. Yeah. I don't know if I answered your question.

[B]

No, you did.

[C]

Oh, you did.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Fantastic guest appearance, I'd say. Her name is Yodel Wai. He. Thank you for joining us online.

[B]

All right, man.

[A]

Thank you.

[C]

Thank you, guys.

[B]

Thank you so much for being here. All right, bye. Bye.

[A]

That's enough. There's no more show. The show is over. You know, there's a lot of stuff being a lot of. I'll say this before we leave with the Diddy, with the Hallie thing. With a lot of stuff that's going on, it's important to say it. We gotta change the mechanism of our reflex when it comes to these things. Yeah, we really gotta have a conversation about our reflex. There's a lot of people out there that, you know. Some I know and respect, some I don't. But, man, let's get through the information and let's make sure that our reflex to all of these things. We gotta move past the. These hoses lying era of society. We just. We have to. Because I hear a lot, particularly from my brothers in the hood in the streets, about how the streets protect women. They, you know, if you beating on a woman, then they handle it. The streets handle that. If you are a pedophile, then the streets handle that. If you. There's this code, this morality that exists some of these places that if you're one of these people that exploits people or takes advantage of people or beats up women or takes advantage of young girls, young boys, whatever, then they want to get you out of there. It seems like y' all feel that way, except when it's somebody that did something that you like.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

It feels like you feel that way if it's somebody uncle up the block or if it's somebody from the other. But when it's somebody that's from the saint and it's somebody that you like, you have a problem calling balls and strikes. I'm not trying to virtue signal or tell y' all to be better, but I am wondering if it's a bunch of bullshit. Because if you can't get somebody that made a song that you like, if you can't keep the same energy for somebody that made a movie that you like, then you definitely not keeping that same energy for somebody's uncle, for somebody's cousin. For somebody's brother, for the people that's hurting women and people in these communities all over the place. I'm starting to feel like a bunch of that shit that y' all talk is bullshit. Because y' all going so far, so far to protect yourselves. You're not thinking about protecting the people that you're supposed to be protecting.

[B]

And let me just say this last thing. We don't have enough information about Halle and ddg. And I'm not saying people should speak out on either.

[A]

I don't know what happened.

[B]

But when it comes to Diddy, the people who still find themselves trying to defend him in whatever way. Let's not forget, when the accusations came, we could say we don't really know what's true and what's not. We don't know what you know. But the moment he came out and put out a video denying everything, saying how untrue it was, putting out statements, everybody ready to demonize Cassie, the video comes out. This man has reportedly shown exactly who he is, a liar. And the fact that knowing that you still find something within yourself to defend it is despicable, disgusting, and, yeah, all the words associated with that, at the very least, troubling.

[A]

Let the trial play out, examine the evidence. But there are narratives that are being created, and the narratives that are being created are just some of them to seemingly charitable of Diddy. And it's not about. I can get some people saying, I want to watch what happens and analyze it and all of that. I can get that. I can understand that. I think that's the way it should be done. What I'm talking about is specifically where the charity is given, like. And the charity seems to be given at all times to the person that is the accused assailant. We gotta get to the bottom of that.

[B]

When they're celebrity, specifically when they're celebrity.

[A]

Specifically when they're celebrity. We gotta get to the bottom of that. Because, like, what I'm saying is, if there shouldn't be any given, if we're gonna get to a point to where we're just gonna look at the situation now, you know, I personally believe that when accusations like this are made, that it takes a shit ton of bravery to do it. But if there shouldn't be any given, I'm willing to have that situation. Let's just look at it, have that conversation. Let's just look at it and analyze what's going on. But we just seem to be a lot of brothers that I really, really respect. We just seem to be on the wrong side of everything. There ain't no way around it. All right, take your think caps off, but do not stop learning. I'm Van Lathen, jr.

[B]

I'm Rachel and Lindsay. Bye, guys.