Higher Learning with Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay

Episode: Biden’s Cancer Diagnosis, and RGIII’s Got Thoughts on Caitlin vs. Angel

Date: May 20, 2025
Podcast Host: The Ringer
Special Guest: Anna Tubbs

Episode Overview

In this episode, Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay dive deep into current events and pressing issues within Black culture, politics, and sports. Topics include President Joe Biden’s recent cancer diagnosis and its political fallout, the ongoing gentrification and displacement of Black communities in Atlanta, and heated debates in women’s basketball centered around Caitlin Clark and Angel Reese—with a critical look at RGIII’s controversial commentary. The episode features an engaging and insightful interview with author Anna Tubbs, whose new book "Erased: What American Patriarchy Has Hidden from Us" sparks a robust discussion of patriarchy’s modern impact, collective power, and pathways to change.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Hip-Hop Impressions & Cultural Legends (00:16–03:48)

• Van opens with a playful Chuck D impression, followed by a group debate about hip-hop knowledge.
• Rachel reflects on attending the “Queens” tour with legends like Gladys Knight and Patti LaBelle.
• Van riffs:

  "When you can sing, it never goes away. When you can sing, maybe one day you might not be able to sing anymore. But if you can sing with the A...it never goes away. Some would say it gets better with time." (03:23)

2. Introspection on Patriarchy & Masculinity (03:54–08:04)

• Introduction of Anna Tubbs’ upcoming appearance and her focus on American patriarchy.

• Van and Rachel share candid insights on unlearning patriarchy, self-awareness, and gender-based expectations.

• Van on internal struggle:

  "Hey, I'm looking at the chauvinist in the mirror, your moments...but at the same time, look, I was raised by...patriarchal men. I'm the best version I could get with where and how I was brought up." (04:22)

• Discussion of Joy Taylor’s podcast and the male loneliness epidemic, highlighting societal narratives around masculinity.

• Rachel notes:

  "A woman speaks out and says something that challenges masculinity or patriarchy or whatever it may be...men are going to jump on it and don't even realize you're doing exactly what it is we're talking about." (07:07)

3. Quick Hitters: News Roundup

Jeffrey Epstein Conspiracy Theories (09:09–14:52)

• Panel discusses new comments from FBI officials denying any conspiracy in Jeffrey Epstein’s death.
• Van contextualizes shifting political narratives and MAGA outrage, reminding listeners of bipartisan reluctance to transparency.
• Rachel critiques political flip-flopping & selective outrage:

  "You had people like Dan Bongino, who on his podcast was talking about government conspiracy, which is so interesting...Trump was the one who was president at the time this was happening. So, are you saying Trump covered it up? Trump’s part of the problem?" (12:46)

Atlanta’s Gentrification & Changing Black Identity (14:52–18:58)

• Recent study finds Atlanta has lost 40% of its majority-Black census tracts since 1980.

• Van examines the city’s perception vs. reality as a Black Mecca; contrasts Black visibility with wealth erosion.

• Rachel:

  "Atlanta is the number one city for income inequality in America. The median household income for Black families is one-third of that of whites. Poverty really exists. So if you're really talking about Black people in Atlanta, it's not a Mecca situation. They're talking about the past." (17:29)

• Van emphasizes the difference between income and durable wealth for Black communities.

4. Biden’s Cancer Diagnosis: Political & Social Fallout (21:38–35:50)

• News that former President Joe Biden has been diagnosed with advanced, aggressive prostate cancer.

• Van predicts political speculation about the timing and transparency of the announcement, referencing reports about Biden’s acuity and campaign decisions.

• Van:

  "The American people were told over and over again that President Biden was fine...Then there, of course, was a very public debate between him and Donald Trump where that obviously was not the case." (22:19)

• Rachel raises concerns about Biden’s legacy and the erosion of trust in public officials:

  "All the years that Biden has had working for government...comes into question because what has been proven is that we couldn't really trust what was coming from him...did any of it even matter?" (26:04, 34:43)

• Consulted medical expert clarifies ambiguity in cancer timelines and screening.

• Van’s broader critique:

  "If you're not doing what's best for those people, then I can't respect you at all. It doesn't matter who you are." (30:17)

5. Sports, Celebrity, and Gendered Narratives

RGIII’s Commentary on Caitlin Clark and Angel Reese (38:11–48:04)

• RGIII (Robert Griffin III) is called out for his take that Angel Reese “hates” Caitlin Clark, escalating on-court rivalry to personal animus.

• Audio montage and Van’s critique:

  "Why is RG3 deciding to baby Caitlin Clark? ...why is he running in to be captain, save a Hooper? Like what...this glaze is...the worst kind of glaze." (42:24)

• Rachel accuses RGIII of projecting a fixation with whiteness and disrespecting Black women:

  “Every time we talk about him on this podcast, it’s the way that he is fascinated and seems to be obsessed with whiteness, particularly white women...as he's belittling black women, there is an obsession, and he has a lot of...microaggressions towards black women.” (43:35)

Tory Lanez “Glaze of the Week” (48:04–55:35)

• Dissection of celebrities (Chris Brown, Kanye, Drake, Ty Dolla $ign) posting #FreeToryLanez petitions after new claims in the Megan Thee Stallion shooting.
• Van’s stand:

  “If Tory Lanez knows that he didn't shoot Meg the Stallion and he is doing 10 years...then Tory Lanez deserves to be in jail. The entire trial played out.” (49:24)

Snoop Dogg & Political Accountability (56:56–67:14)

• Snoop faces heat for performing at Trump inauguration festivities for a friend (David Sacks), defending with “30 minutes vs 30 years” of giving back.

• Rachel:

  “I would rather him actually not say anything at this point, because what he seems to continuously miss is what it represented for him to be there. It doesn't matter...the fact that he's excusing it or not taking into consideration how this affects people...makes me feel the same way even more.” (59:13)

• Van explores Snoop’s powerful, influential connections (David Sacks, conservative activist) and discusses the idea that loving a public figure includes holding them accountable:

  “The disappointment that we had and have in Snoop is love. That's because we love Snoop so much and because Snoop has been there for us so much...And the question that people were asking to Snoop...is why aren’t you there for us now?” (64:54)

6. FEATURE INTERVIEW – Anna Tubbs: “Erased” and the Modern Patriarchy (71:14–94:58)

Defining Patriarchy & American Specificity (71:14–73:39)

• Anna Tubbs offers a clear definition:

  “Patriarchy...is a system that favors men over women and gives access to resources to men and power and control to men so that they can control women. And our nation was set up as a patriarchal system...” (71:43)

How Women (Especially White Women) Protect Patriarchy (74:16–77:27)

• Anna traces how some women—especially white women—support the system for token protection and status:

  “One of the reasons a lot of women end up protecting patriarchy, especially white women, is because they actually do have some protection that's afforded to them by it...So we thus far have spoken about patriarchy as if it affects all women the same...when in reality, it's affected us all very differently.” (74:16)

The American Founders and Anti-democratic Roots (77:27–78:53)

• Anna:

  “The Founding Fathers wanted to get disorderly men in line. They wanted to make sure women were going to be subjugated...It wasn't hidden. It wasn't something that they were apologetic about. They felt that that was the way that they could maintain power...” (78:53)

• The group discusses how law, policy, and cultural narratives have enforced and justified patriarchy, and how it is fundamentally a “made-up story”—and thus, malleable.

Black Women’s Historical Resistance (82:40–84:18)

• Van highlights that basic acts of motherhood and family in Black history were acts of resistance:

  “Mothering was an act of revolution...There were so many things that our ancestors did to assert their humanity and go against the forced status quo...” (82:40)

Optimism for Dismantling Patriarchy (84:18–87:23)

• Anna says:

  “Not all of us have the privilege of being pessimistic...when you understand the vulnerability of American patriarchy, when you understand that it's just this story that's made up, it really removes its power...” (84:37)

Audience Q&A: Men and Patriarchy, Practical Steps (87:27–91:11)

• Van asks: "What can a man do to fight patriarchy in himself and society?"
• Anna’s layered response:
  • Internal: Question your beliefs about control and entitlement.
  • In relationships: Examine expectations and dynamics at home.
  • Community: Build collective support and interconnectedness.
  • National: Vote for policies that move towards equity for all, not just maintenance of hierarchy.

  “The final layer is on the national layer. How do you vote and what are you voting for? ...Are you voting for everybody to have their needs met so that they can have power within themselves?” (90:10)

Pushback & Reception (91:13–93:52)

• Anna shares early pushback and defensiveness, especially among white women, underscoring the necessity of the conversation.
• Anna:

  “You're always going to have those people who are like, one star, this made no sense, this woman's trying to blow it all up...But it's fine. We're gonna be okay. I hope it helps enough people and opens enough eyes...” (91:33)

7. Reflections, Ratings, and Closing Thoughts (94:58–End)

• Van, Rachel, Donnie, and Ashley humorously rate each other on a "Patriarchy Scale."

• Rachel tells Van:

  “You're aware. And I think that that goes...I would give you a seven.” (95:32)

• Playful back-and-forth about being an "asshole" for one’s unspoken judgments, using an example involving Fred Hampton’s photo and astrological conversations.

Notable Quotes

• Van Lathan: “I believe in...Americans and their ability to come together and solve problems. But I just don't believe in oligarchy or the elite, small group corporate power that dominates the American political conversation. I don't believe in it.” (35:50)

• Rachel Lindsay: “When you love something, you hold it accountable. You want to see them at their best.” (68:52)

• Anna Tubbs: “The opposite of American patriarchy is not a world or a country where women have power over men, but instead, it’s a place where we each have power within ourselves.” (73:13)

• Van Lathan: “Mothering was an act of revolution. Being a mom was an act of revolution. Getting married was an act of revolution...And you have to have an accurate understanding of your history and what your history is to be able to get that.” (82:40)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Hip-Hop Quiz & Concerts: 00:16–03:48
• Patriarchy Intro/Honesty: 03:54–08:04
• Epstein Conspiracy: 09:09–14:52
• Atlanta Gentrification: 14:52–18:58
• Biden’s Cancer Diagnosis: 21:38–35:50
• RGIII & WNBA Debates: 38:11–48:04
• Tory Lanez Glaze: 48:04–55:35
• Snoop Dogg & Political Accountability: 56:56–67:14
• Anna Tubbs Interview Starts: 71:14
  • Defining Patriarchy: 71:43
  • White Women & Patriarchy: 74:16
  • Founders’ Anti-democracy: 77:27
  • Black Women’s Resistance: 82:40
  • Optimism & Dismantling Systems: 84:37
  • Advice to Men: 87:27
  • Pushback: 91:33
• Reflection/Patriarchy Scale/Wrap-Up: 94:58–End

Memorable Moments

• Van’s vulnerable acknowledgment of how even progressive men are socialized into patriarchy.
• RGIII’s commentary sparking a larger conversation about internalized bias and public figures’ influence.
• The layers of Black history and resistance, especially women’s roles, highlighted by Anna Tubbs.
• A rare, in-depth exploration of how collective identity, voting, and relationships perpetuate or dismantle structural power.

This summary captures the depth, sharpness, and humor of the conversation in Higher Learning’s signature tone. For listeners seeking practical insight, fresh perspective, and honest critique—this episode delivers across culture, politics, gender, and history.