Higher Learning with Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay
Episode: Comedy, Music, and the Black Church With KevOnStage
Release Date: February 27, 2026
Guest: KevOnStage (Kevin Fredericks)

Episode Overview

In this thoughtful and hilarious episode, Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay welcome comedian, content creator, and studio founder KevOnStage (Kevin Fredericks) for a dynamic conversation covering rejection in the entertainment industry, the evolving role of the Black church in culture and arts, the art of pitching, comedy in a changing world, music and nostalgia, and navigating public life in the age of the internet. The episode keeps a candid, often vulnerable tone as Kev shares personal lessons, his creative philosophy, and the tensions between tradition, change, and authenticity.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Handling “No” and Turning Rejection Into Fuel

• KevOnStage’s perspective on rejection:

  • “No often fuels me…I can build chips to like, nigga, you gonna tell me no? You know what I'm saying? I'm gonna show you.” (00:40)
  • “If you don’t ask, it’s already no anyway, so at least ask.” (01:01)

• The “Churchy” experience:

  • Kev describes the repeated rejection of his show Churchy by networks—unique advice from Black executive Sheila Duckworth (“your first pitch should be something important to you and something you know more than anybody else” [02:54])—leads him to self-produce the series.
  • Creating and releasing Churchy on his own platform proved both his ability and the show’s audience, shifting his leverage in the industry (“Once I made that…so many doors that were closed were now open.” [04:19])

2. Pitching and Navigating Hollywood as a Black Creator

• The importance of concise, resonant pitches:

  • Van: "Pitch is very important...I know people who are master pitchers and they get more shit on air..." (08:29)

• Translating ideas for 'the room':

  • Kev: “You’re pitching to white people. You need to connect your pitch to something they know.” (09:47)
  • Example: Judas and the Black Messiah was sold as “The Departed set within the Black Panther party.” (09:21)
  • Executives are risk-averse: “He [an NBC exec] said he never got in trouble for saying no…” (10:00)

• On industry expectations and social media:

  • “Thank the Lord that what I did to build my own stuff ended up being my superpower when it used to be seen as a negative.” (11:37)

3. Fear, Resilience, and Creativity in Adversity

• On overcoming fear:

  • “You don’t really get rid of the fear…you just do it. You just push past it.” (12:56)
  • Sharing failures as much as successes to normalize struggle in the creative process.

• Resilience and pivoting:

  • “My greatest superpower is pivoting.” (14:53)
  • “When you don’t have the resources, you really gotta figure it out…some of our greatest things have come from lack…We wouldn’t have oxtail without oppression, you know what I’m sayin’?” (15:18)
  • Sports analogy: “Steph Curry…misses baskets still every single game. But you don't need to make every single basket to be the greatest…” (15:36)

4. Comedy, Edges, and Cultural Shifts

• Line-walking and audience awareness in comedy:

  • “Good comedians want to find the line. Sometimes I feel like lazy comedians just want to be offensive and crude…that to me is not good comedy.” (20:26)

• Context, shifting boundaries, and the internet:

  • “Comedy is always…the funniest when it’s relevant to the time period.” (21:00)
  • The difference in comedic boundaries over time; jokes that were once acceptable aren’t anymore (“Bernie Mac’s set was not problematic to me at all. When I go back and watch it now…I don’t imagine he would perform that set [today] the exact same way.” [22:34])
  • Internet permanence and virality have changed the stakes for comics.

• Protecting communities in comedy:

  • “People choose who they protect and they choose who they go after…it's easy to come at us [Black people], right? Cause we unprotected." (24:54)

5. Political Speech, Platform, and Nuance

• On when/where to address “heavy” topics:
  • Kev saves political and nuanced discussions for his podcasts and longform audio, not quick takes on social media (“If you want to hear me talk about political topics, it’s almost always on my podcast.” [28:10])
  • “The biggest mistake you can make is rush to be first…you don’t even have the information often.” (31:29)
  • Applied this lesson to discourse over a Bafta controversy, illustrating how situations evolve as more context emerges.

6. Music, Nostalgia, and The Black Church’s Influence

• Skipped tracks and what makes a classic album:

  • Kev and Rachel joke about which beloved albums have “skips”—and how that doesn't undermine their status as “classics.” (33:50–39:00)

• Kev’s top five gospel artists:

  • 1. Kirk Franklin ("The only gospel artist to me that has been relevant in multiple decades." [41:54])
  • 2. John P. Kee
  • 3. Fred Hammond
  • 4. Mary Mary ("Along with Kirk, were probably the most visibly successful people to incorporate elements of hip hop and R&B into gospel music." [42:20])
  • 5. The Clark Sisters ("Twinkie Clark alone should be heralded in the same way that Quincy Jones is..." [43:44])

• Shifts in church music:

  • More CCM (Contemporary Christian Music) in Black churches; Kev doesn’t connect with it the same way—ties to changes in church culture and community. (44:17)

• The Black church as a “conservatory”:

  • “The Black church was the greatest conservatory for not just music. Public speakers, comedians, rappers. I honed my skills in church…” (48:52)

7. The Black Church Today: Nostalgia, Critique, and Evolution

• Missing the “monoculture” of the church:

  • “I do miss it. And I also miss…the way life felt when Blockbuster was a big part of life…I feel like my friends was in church. I met Melissa in high school. I ended up going to her church just so I could see her more…” (54:49)

• Black church as both gift and harm:

  • Parallel with strict, loving parenting—recognizes both support and pain from traditions (61:17)
  • “…I was taught to be homophobic sitting in church five times a week…It was reinforced from my family.” (62:36)

• Kev’s personal evolution:

  • “The first time I had a contrary thought…was holding my son. I was like, ‘yeah, I don’t really care if this boy is gay or straight. This is my son.’” (63:39)

• Holding space for complexity:

  • “I cannot not acknowledge the harm that was done. And I think you hold space for both of those.” (68:15)

• Changing perspectives in scriptural interpretation:

  • “So I choose…and I can’t definitively say one way or another because I’m not a theologian…But I do know that I will not make people who are gay feel less than.” (83:27–84:07)
  • “We interrogate the Bible all the time…Why can we not interrogate sexuality?” (84:28)
  • Updating personal beliefs to align with greater inclusivity—citing family, real relationships, and generational shifts.

8. Navigating Visibility, Privacy, and Criticism

• Protecting personal life:

  • “The more visible I become, the less I’m actually sharing about my actual life.” (91:46)
  • Describes boundaries around public grief and keeping family and close friends private.

• The cost of online fame:

  • “People treat highly visible famous people like they’re not human, because to them, they're just a character.” (93:42)
  • “You win enough, they're gonna be like, we sick of these people winning. It’s time for a new league.” (93:26)

• Public scrutiny and resilience:

  • “It’s natural…so be, like, cognizant of how you move around.” (94:03)
  • Kev and Van laugh about trolling and backlash, noting that internet criticism is the cost of putting yourself out there.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On pitching Hollywood:

  • “Don't pitch what you want to see. Pitch what they want to see.” – Kev (09:57)

• On creativity and adversity:

  • “Some of our greatest things have come from lack…We wouldn’t have oxtail without oppression.” – Kev (15:18)

• On comedy and boundaries:

  • “Good comedians want to find the line. Sometimes I feel like lazy comedians just want to be offensive and crude…that to me is not good comedy.” – Kev (20:26)

• On evolving as a parent:

  • “How you hit him to tell him not to hit him? That didn’t…And that's literally the last time I hit my kids.” – Kev (68:56)

• On navigating fame and privacy:

  • “You need good friends, good group chat, good family. Don’t let the Internet become your friends, your group chat, your family, because you are content to them.” – Kev (92:39)

• On inclusivity and the church:

  • “All Black people are important to me. And I’m so sorry if you don’t feel that way. That won’t be…that’s a place we gotta part ways.” – Kev (106:41)

Timestamps for Major Segments

• 00:38-06:49 — Rejection, pitching, and self-producing “Churchy”
• 08:29-11:58 — The art of pitching and Hollywood gatekeeping
• 12:56-16:28 — Fear, resilience, and creative pivots
• 17:15-24:47 — Comedy, God’s sense of humor, navigating changing comedic standards
• 28:10-33:47 — Political topics, short-form vs. longform, and responsibility in content creation
• 33:50-44:05 — Music, what defines a “classic” album, and the evolution of gospel
• 48:41-54:49 — The Black church’s impact on talent and culture, changes in its role
• 61:17-72:43 — Black church, personal evolution, faith, and embracing complexity
• 91:24-101:56 — Fame, maintaining privacy, boundaries, internet criticism, and personal grief
• 109:05-115:01 — R&B nostalgia and heated debates (Drew Hill vs. Boyz II Men; Anita Baker “controversy”)
• 113:12-end — On community, nostalgia, food, and the value of disagreement

Closing Reflection

The episode is a masterclass in balancing vulnerability with humor and highlighting the complicated ties between Black creativity, community, and culture—particularly as they intersect in the Black church, music, and new media. KevOnStage’s journey and insights—spanning honest failures to the evolving meaning of faith and community—set a profound, relevant tone for listeners.

Guest Socials:

• KevOnStage: [@KevOnStage on social media platforms]

Listen on:

• Spotify, Apple Podcasts, The Ringer network platforms