← Higher Learning with Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay
Higher Learning with Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay
Do the Epstein Files Matter? Is Rachel an Auntie? Plus, Interracial Relationships and a New Diddy Doc
02:20:37
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- [00:00]
A
Foreign. Warriors. What is up? Higher learning is on. It is Ivan Lathan Jr. And it's.
- [00:13]
B
Me, Rachel and Lindsay.
- [00:15]
A
Rachel, have you ever seen the movie Marie Antoinette?
- [00:19]
B
I have not. Why do we do this?
- [00:22]
A
So it's not about that. Because that's a movie that. If you guys haven't seen the movie, it is directed, written and directed by Sofia Coppola. It is about Marie Antoinette, but not specifically about the French Revolution or, you know, the beginnings of France as a nation and not as a monarchy. It was a movie that came out when I was like 25, 26 years old or something like that. Stars Kirsten Dunst as Marie Antoinette.
- [00:50]
B
Okay.
- [00:51]
A
When it first came out, I just did not understand the movie. I watched it for some reason. I watched it last week and it broke my heart.
- [00:58]
B
You feel sorry for her?
- [00:59]
A
Yes. Now, listen, the movie doesn't look at Marie Antoinette through a historical lens. It looks at her through like she's a celebrity lens. Like she starts off in Austria. She gets married off to the dauphine of France. She's in kind of a loveless marriage. She's just living, living, living, living. Everything happens in the French times. If you guys know anything about the French Revolution, it was bloody. God bless you. And the people were living in such poverty. All of that stuff, class warfare. France becomes a nation. And in the historical telling, at least the cultural, historical telling of that, she's one of the villains. The whole let them eat cake thing. This movie looks at her in a different way. She actually never said that. Boom, boom, boom. And it's kind of this tale of like a misplaced life where you don't have that much control, but you do what you have to do and get joy out of it. Just, I don't know. For some reason, at this point in my life, it just disintegrated me. And so I just decided to go back and watch all the movies from the past in my 20s that I didn't like to see if my life now connects with those movies a little bit more.
- [02:10]
B
And what were those movies?
- [02:12]
A
Well, I haven't done it for the other films.
- [02:15]
B
What's on the list?
- [02:16]
A
So that one is on the list. The English Patient is on the list.
- [02:22]
B
Okay.
- [02:23]
A
That was from the 90s. I've never fucking liked that movie.
- [02:26]
B
I've never seen it, but I know what it is.
- [02:27]
A
I've never liked the English Patient. I'm just wondering if I look at things a little bit differently now.
- [02:34]
B
I'm sure you do a couple other movies, too. You've had life Experiences. So that's how you spent your holidays?
- [02:39]
A
I watched that. My holidays. Doing other things, too. I watched that. But then I watched a lot of other movies, newer movies as well.
- [02:49]
B
See, I watched films. Christmas.
- [02:53]
A
That's. Can't do it.
- [02:54]
B
That's my. But that's my tradition that I like to watch. Like, I watched the Grinch. I watched Elf. I watched.
- [03:04]
A
Nice.
- [03:05]
B
There's. Oh, my God. What else did we watch? I don't know. I watched Meet the Robinsons, which is an animated movie. Has nothing to do with Christmas. That I had never seen before.
- [03:13]
A
Let's Meet the Robinson.
- [03:14]
B
It's like, from 2007. Guy from Shreveport. Like, it's based off his book, made the movie. It's a Disney movie. It's like. It's like Pixar. Ish. It's not Pixar, but it's like the characters look like that. I don't think it's Pixar. Anyways, it's about. It was really, really good. It's just about this kid who. I don't want to give it away, but he lives in an orphanage. He really is, like, has this new thought of, oh. Because he's met with all these families, nobody wants him. He's about to be a teenager and he's like, oh, my mom. It's not that she didn't want me. It's that she couldn't care for. And so he creates this time machine so he can go back and meet his mom. But then something happens with the time machine and he has to go to the future. And then he learns all these things about himself and it all just comes together. If I say too much, it gives the movie away, but it's like a really good thing. And the whole message is like, keep going forward. Don't give up. Believe in yourself. It was really good.
- [04:11]
C
You liked it?
- [04:12]
B
I loved it.
- [04:13]
A
You know why I didn't watch that many Christmas movies anymore? Why? Because I'm having a faith crisis.
- [04:20]
B
Okay.
- [04:21]
A
I don't know if I believe in God anymore. Really? Yeah, it's true. And so I'm watching movies that are more grounded in brutal humanism. You know, I watch City of God.
- [04:37]
B
I've seen City of God, actually.
- [04:40]
A
And so movies about loneliness, expectation, despair, what we're supposed to do, what we're not supposed to. It's. I'm not going to spend a whole podcast on this. We talked.
- [04:51]
B
I really would like not. But I'm. I hate you going into the new year like this.
- [04:56]
A
Oh, no, no, no, it's fine. It's actually helping because I think what's happening is. What I need to do is stop being so reactive and get out of my body and into the places where spirituality might exist.
- [05:12]
B
So God is religion or God?
- [05:15]
A
No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. What I mean is, like, you know, I think part of the reason why the movie probably affected me so much is because the way at this particular point, the film itself is completely detached from me. First of all, it takes place in the past. She's a white lady that is of noble birth. Lived a. Would have liked to believe that if I lived during that time. I'm probably one of the revolutionaries. She's super rich, all of that stuff. But, like, can you connect to somebody's humanity through all of these societal, social, even historical differences? Can you just look at somebody and go, oh, my God, she looks kind of lonely. Like, that would be kind of lonely. That would suck. Like, having your kids die after you have them. That would suck. Like, not experiencing real love, all of this. That. That would suck. That would suck. That. Can you get to that point? And it's a human thing, I think, with a lot of other stuff. For me, like, finding spirituality, finding God in things is like, something bigger than me that I've always believed in, but I can't see it in the world anymore. I can't see it. I see almost everyone in the world putting things before that, even the people that aren't supposed to. Like, it doesn't. I don't see any submission to anything that's bigger than anyone. I see it. And as much as I shouldn't look at things like that part of understanding spirituality or that type of thing is understanding people's relationship to it and people that go, you know what? I could be angry, but I'm not angry. Because there's a quickening inside of me that says that's not a part of my makeup. I could be greedy, I could be boastful. I could be whatever. I could be all of these things, right? But I'm not. I am not those things. Because there is something greater than me that's pulling me away from that, and I submit to that. But not only do I submit to that, but that is acting through me, right? And, like, I don't know, I'm struggling to find it always have been. Like, I'm also struggling to discipline myself and shit that I shouldn't be doing, but I'm struggling to find it. And so instead, in this moment in my life, it feels like what I'm actually Searching for is just people's humanity, their existence, and things that they can control and can't control, and how they live in their lives and make purpose in their lives based around those things. Like what you're supposed to do. Is that what you want to do? Is that what you are trying to do? And how do you live a life that feels intentional and purposeful when there's so much stuff that you're supposed to do that you might not even want to be a part of?
- [08:10]
B
You know what, though? I feel like if you look at it like that on a bigger scale, you will continuously be disappointed. I feel like when I look at things on a smaller scale, when I look at people within my own life, when I look at certain situations or things that I may see, that's when I'm reminded of humanity more than when I am walking, watch, reading a news story, watching it on tv, watching something on social media. It's in my own personal life that I feel like I feel that way more than on a bigger scale. And I feel like the more I dive into, which we do have to do with this podcast, I feel more hopeless, I feel more despair. And then when I detach myself from that and I'm in my own world, that's when I feel more connected to humanity.
- [08:59]
A
It's funny, you know, we'll get into the podcast after this. It's funny, though, because, like, once again, for me, it's. It's the opposite. Like, I look at my mom and I see the same story of the lady on the screen. And you guys are making a lot about this movie. You guys are gonna watch this movie and be like, this is not that good, but, like, it. It's good to me, though. I really enjoyed it. I see my mother in that. I wonder if my mother's sacrifice. My mom is so talented. I talk a lot about my father, not as much about my mother, which is, you know, probably the way guys, young men like myself, deify their dads and stuff like that, where there's women there that are still there and that are doing whatever. So if, like, my mom, if it's worth it, if it was worth it to give up your entire life for motherhood, if that was worth it. If. I mean, seriously, if you're her and you're sitting around right now. She turned 70 in February. She's beautiful. She's brilliant. Like, legitimately brilliant. It galls me to think of the talent, man, like, legitimately brilliant.
- [10:08]
B
She say that she gave up her life, though.
- [10:10]
A
We've had Some conversations to where I'm not saying that she would say that, but I'm saying, em, is my existence worth that beauty and that brilliance and all of that not being out in the world? Is Ebony's existence? Is all the pain that my father put her through, is all of that stuff worth it? Or is that what she had to do? Is what she had to do is, all right, cool, like, you're. You light up any room. You can dance, you can sing, you can write, you can do whatever the thing is. But you're a mom now. Do that. And it's like. And it's like. And so to me, I look at that and ask, is any of these things that we say are worth it? Are they actually worth it?
- [10:59]
B
I mean, I understand you guys have had some conversations, but I would love to hear her perspective, because even the way that you just phrase that of she's all these things, but she's a mom. As if she. Does she not pour that into you? Did she not pour that beauty, that talent, that creativity, that intellect into you?
- [11:17]
A
It's like she did, but you missed the question. I said she did. But like, I'm saying, am I worth all of that?
- [11:24]
B
I think she would say yes, but again, she might.
- [11:26]
A
No, no, I'm saying she would. But even if she did, even if she did say yes, which I'm sure she might. Sure she might. We've had conversations where I know that she's pondering some things. I'm sure she might. Even if she did say yes, I don't agree.
- [11:47]
B
Well, that's a different story. That's totally different. That's totally different.
- [11:53]
A
You know, I think. You know, I don't agree. It's like, you know, you get one, you get one. You're definitely in a dance.
- [11:59]
B
You're definitely one.
- [12:00]
A
Time to dance. That's all I'm saying.
- [12:02]
D
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- [12:28]
E
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- [12:55]
A
First of all, Threads. I'm on threads now.
- [12:57]
B
Uh, we know. Yeah, nigga, we know.
- [13:00]
A
Ha ha, daddy.
- [13:01]
B
But do you like it? Is the question.
- [13:03]
A
No, not at all.
- [13:04]
B
Why not?
- [13:05]
A
Not in any way, shape or form. Why Threads in a lot of ways is a Twitter without the fun talk.
- [13:13]
B
Though that at least parts of Twitter threads is fine.
- [13:18]
A
At least parts of Twitter have some fun. It's toxic on Twitter, but at least it's some fun on Twitter.
- [13:26]
B
The conversations are better on threads.
- [13:28]
A
It's a bunch of people on threads like that really take themselves seriously because they're not on Twitter. At least on Twitter I can go through some shit and it's going to be some basketball, it's going to be some threads. Is a lot of people who think honestly that they're too elevated for Twitter. So they on there being self righteous.
- [13:49]
B
A lot of things on threads for sure. But I think it's not as funny, I'll give you that. But I enjoy going through threads way more than Twitter. Like Twitter is a lot for me. And then I just like, don't. There's just so much. I'm not gonna say that there's not misinformation on threads, but it's just so much on Twitter. It's just Twitter's too toxic for me and I joined it too late. So I never really got the fun of what Twitter used to be and how it started. Like when I watched the documentary on black Twitter, it's like I didn't join Twitter till 2017, so I missed so much of it to where I feel like I'm at the beginning of threads. So for me it's something different. Yeah, yeah.
- [14:33]
A
But I missed a part of Twitter where like everybody was joking about rape and stuff like that. It was this one, one time the Twitter was like, everybody. All this stuff. Hey, you never made. I'm like, nah, I was wilding.
- [14:44]
B
So when will your reign end since you are self declared king of threads.
- [14:49]
A
Oh, I'm here to clean up the streets.
- [14:50]
B
When will your reign. If you don't. If you want to bring some of that. Are you going to bring some of that Twitter energy to Threads?
- [14:57]
A
Not even about Twitter energy. There was a dude on there that I can't remember what he wanted to debate me about. He said something, he was like, yeah, Van, I disagree with this. I would love to debate you. It was December 26th, I was like, nigga, if you don't go get up and spend some time with your family. What are you talking about? You want to debate, like, go. Go debate your son about the. The Batman figurine you just bought him. You want to debate threads? I gotta clean up the streets. I gotta clean up the streets on threads and get people to have threads celebrations. I gotta get some different topics on threads. I gotta clean up the threads streets. The new king of Threads is here, and his reign will be long.
- [15:41]
B
And just Marie Antoinette is running all through you right now. See, that's. That's that. That's that energy running through you.
- [15:49]
A
But, yeah, so I'm on threads now. I didn't know also that all of my posts, I was posting on threads. Anyway.
- [15:54]
B
Yeah, you're. You're. You had to have connected that it didn't automatically happen.
- [15:58]
A
Okay, maybe I did.
- [15:59]
B
But your Instagram post on your feed.
- [16:02]
A
Go to Threads, shout out to Deontay Kyle. Deontay Kyle from Grits and Eggs podcast, who to me is. How can I put this? He is the single most powerful voice in black America. Wow. Bar none. I think I. I personally think he is. Like, I watch him. I. I say words for a living and I watch him. I'm like, God damn, man. This he. To me, he's the. The. I didn't say most influential. All of that stuff. He's still building. The single most powerful voice in black America is doing a podcast in Atlanta right now. That's how I feel. But he got on the threads thing, and I said that I didn't know that all my Instagram posts were on threads. He was like, bruh, man, you uncing hard right now. I'm in the unk stage.
- [16:53]
B
Well, you've declared yourself unk before. I will not join you with the auntie. But yeah, you definitely give unk vibes.
- [17:00]
A
Auntie, you don't wanna be auntie.
- [17:01]
B
I'm not there yet.
- [17:02]
A
You don't wanna be auntie.
- [17:04]
B
I mean, I am an aunt, but I am not an auntie.
- [17:08]
A
You're legitimately an aunt. You're an auntie.
- [17:11]
B
I'm not an auntie.
- [17:12]
A
You are.
- [17:13]
B
I'll watch things and I'm like, that's auntie.
- [17:17]
A
What's your favorite NBA Youngboy song?
- [17:21]
B
Just because I'm not in the NBA Young tune.
- [17:23]
A
I'm gonna answer the question.
- [17:26]
B
Not one.
- [17:27]
A
Can you just name a song?
- [17:29]
B
I'll name a song he's featured on.
- [17:31]
A
No, no, no, no. I'll name a song, name a record that NBA Young Boy.
- [17:37]
B
I can't.
- [17:37]
A
You can't name one.
- [17:38]
B
Because I don't like him. I don't like. I've listened, I've heard songs. I'm like. I don't understand. Just like. I don't like Playboy Cardi. Like that. That Just.
- [17:47]
A
What's your favorite Playboy Cardi record?
- [17:51]
B
Millie Rock.
- [17:52]
A
What's. What's. What's the name of the song? Hold on, hold on. Wait a second. What's the name of the record? What do you call it?
- [17:59]
B
Just because I don't listen for a second.
- [18:03]
A
Wait. What's the name of the. What's the name of this. What's the name of the record? What's the name of the. What is it called?
- [18:09]
B
It's the Milly Rock song.
- [18:11]
A
Are you talking about Magnolia?
- [18:13]
B
Yeah, that part.
- [18:13]
A
Okay, cool. You don't do a record cause you a auntie.
- [18:17]
B
No, just because. Just because I don't listen to that doesn't mean that I'm an auntie.
- [18:22]
A
Okay?
- [18:23]
B
Just because I don't listen. If I didn't know who they were, then you could call me an auntie. I was like, I'm sorry, who's Playboi who play. Who is Playboi Carti?
- [18:32]
A
That's a fair point. That's a fair point.
- [18:34]
B
Thank you.
- [18:34]
A
But I would say this, though, also the fact that this is beyond you, naming these records.
- [18:40]
B
It's not beyond me. You don't know I've been to a Playboi Carti concert. Okay, you have because he performed at Camp Vlogna.
- [18:46]
A
So you haven't been to a Playboi Carti concert. You've been to a festival where Playboi Carti performed.
- [18:51]
B
He headlined. That is a Playboi Carti concert.
- [18:55]
A
By the way, can I tell you what's an auntie ass answer?
- [18:57]
B
What?
- [18:58]
A
Auntie, what's your favorite Playboi Carti song? Millie Rock.
- [19:03]
B
I should have just kept quiet.
- [19:04]
A
That's my favorite one. What's that one?
- [19:06]
B
I should have kept quiet?
- [19:07]
A
Hide it in his. That boy. Something else talking about he gonna hide it in his sock. What are you gonna hide in his sock?
- [19:13]
B
But see how they do all of that?
- [19:14]
A
And then you look at auntie and you go, I didn't do all of that. He talking about drugs. He gonna hide drugs in the sock.
- [19:20]
B
See, you know this language.
- [19:21]
A
I've been listening to that.
- [19:22]
B
You know this language. Listening to that as a. I need.
- [19:24]
A
To be listening to some Al Green.
- [19:26]
B
Jada Bernard didn't even know I was 40.
- [19:29]
A
You 40 wear sis no, no.
- [19:33]
B
I would imagine because of my actions as well.
- [19:36]
A
Youthful, beautiful, all of that stuff. Youthful, beautiful, auntie.
- [19:42]
B
But you know the difference? Like, I see. I told you. I saw some people I went to college with who were my age, and I looked at them and I'm like, they are aunties now.
- [19:49]
A
You dissing them.
- [19:50]
B
I'm not.
- [19:51]
A
You just. You just fucked over there.
- [19:52]
B
Some people embrace it. I told Joy Taylor had an auntie party, and I said, joy. And Joy is younger than me. I said, joy, I'm not coming to this party. I'm not an auntie. She had an auntie theme party.
- [20:01]
A
There was an auntie controversy that happened on the red pill back in the day. We're not gonna talk about it, but I understand.
- [20:09]
B
Who'd you call an answer?
- [20:10]
A
No, no, no, no, no. Not gonna discuss it. Like, I don't. Like, I understand that you don't have to embrace it, but it's kind of like not your choice is what I'm saying. It's not my choice. Not your choice.
- [20:23]
B
Oh, I don't think anybody would classify me as that. Even though you tried. I know who.
- [20:32]
A
Nigga, you going hard right now. Oh, my God.
- [20:35]
B
I don't think anybody would classify me as an auntie.
- [20:38]
A
You going hard right now.
- [20:39]
B
I don't think they would.
- [20:40]
A
Okay, I'm. You know what? If you say you're not an auntie, you're not an auntie.
- [20:45]
B
Thank you.
- [20:46]
A
Thank you. Cousin Rachel. Are you still cousin you cousin?
- [20:48]
B
I'm cuz, I can.
- [20:49]
A
Cousin Rachel. Big cousin, though.
- [20:52]
B
That's fine.
- [20:53]
A
Okay. That's fine, big cousin.
- [20:55]
B
That's fine.
- [20:56]
A
All right. You watching Stranger Things. What's going on? I have no clue what's happening.
- [20:59]
B
I can't believe you don't watch Stranger Things. Can I ask you why? Because I think the audience is probably so confused. This is something you will watch versus me. I don't normally do the sci fi fantasy, but what I will say is I love being in this because it's like a monoculture, right? Everybody's talking about it. They just released season five. We've been waiting over a year and a half for this. First four episodes dropped around Thanksgiving. Four more or three more dropped Christmas Day, and then the finale, which will be in theaters Christmas Eve. I mean, I'm sorry New Year's Eve is so. It's about to drop again this week. I love being in the conversation. Like, I don't know, Marvel, I don't know a lot of the things that you talk about. But I will say it feels good understanding what everybody's talking about on social media. Because I've been watching this for 10 years. A lot of people are upset with season five, and I'm sure you guys have seen it, whether you watch it or not. How can you escape it? You're chronically on social media. Everybody's talking about how disappointed they are. They're comparing it to other sci fi shows, like welcome to Derry, another show that you really need to get into.
- [22:08]
A
That one I have gotten into.
- [22:10]
B
It's so good, right?
- [22:12]
A
The fact that everybody's not talking about that show. They are. They're not talking about it enough.
- [22:17]
B
Black people are so in.
- [22:19]
A
I would make an argument that welcome.
- [22:20]
B
To Derry is a black show.
- [22:21]
A
I think it is that show. That's probably why they're not talking about it like they should. That show is good as shit.
- [22:27]
B
You were watching it when it was. So it's done now, so you can binge it. But when it was every week, I was like, sad every week. Believe me. People were on, particularly black people.
- [22:37]
A
Anyways, I was on.
- [22:38]
B
People are comparing it to, like, welcome to Derry and to that storyline into the acting on that. There's been a lot of talk about child actors versus when they become adult actors. There's a lot of talk about these kids. They're. They're adults now. They're not. I mean, Millie is a mom. She's married. You know, people are talking about the appearance, all of this.
- [22:58]
A
But I've seen that discourse.
- [23:00]
E
Athena.
- [23:00]
B
Yes. And then so. And it's also got some low ratings compared to the other seasons. I would argue that because they made us wait so long and season four ended so good that it just didn't pick up where it left off. And it's kind of like, what are we doing? We're running around in circles. As opposed to, like, welcome to Derry, where, like, you don't know if someone's gonna make it. Your favorite character's gonna make it from episode to episode. All right. One of the big conversations that was was Will. So Will is a character that was captured by Vecna Henry. All of this at the very beginning of the season. It has been speculated that all through. And you do know this now, like, you knew this from last season, that Will is gay. Noah Schapp, I think that's his last name that plays him is gay in real life. He's alluded to it as well. But we knew at this point as audience members that he was gay. His friends on the show did not. His mom didn't know he was gay.
- [24:00]
A
The audience knew he was gay. Did they hint? Because I did see some stuff I've watched, like when the guy played who went on to be Johnny Storm. What's his name? What's the guy's name? He had sex with Doja Cat. What's his name? You guys know what I'm talking about?
- [24:15]
B
Eddie.
- [24:15]
A
Well, yeah, remember Eddie? We played the guitar. Metallica. Like that guy. I know stuff about him I watched a little bit. I think I watched the last episode last week.
- [24:24]
B
Spoiler. Eddie's not with us anymore.
- [24:26]
A
Well, Eddie, the character.
- [24:28]
B
The character Eddie. Yeah, Eddie. Okay, we lost it.
- [24:30]
A
Okay, so I've seen some stuff, but was it known to the audience that this character. You said it was known. How was it known?
- [24:36]
B
I can't remember when. Cause again, there's so many years that go in between. But they're Ethan Hawke and Uma Thurman's. Uma Thurman's. Is it Thurman? Why'd that sound wrong?
- [24:48]
A
Uma Thurman.
- [24:49]
B
I don't know why that sound wrong. Uma Thurman's daughter is on it. Maya Hawk. She's on the show and she. She's queer. I don't know if she identifies as bisexual or lesbian, but I'll say queer. He had a conversation with her about how she knew.
- [25:06]
A
Okay. So he had told her on the show.
- [25:09]
B
He made like. Yeah. And she figured it out. Okay, so. And forgive me if I'm getting this wrong. Cause again, years and years and years between. But the whole group didn't know. So mind you, they're fighting. They're trying to fight Vecna. They're trying to save Holly, which is the sister of two of the main characters. They're trying to figure out what's going on. The world is ending. It's gonna end very soon. And Will sits down to tell everybody that he's gay. And the Internet lost it.
- [25:40]
A
They don't like that.
- [25:41]
B
They didn't like the timing of it. And then of course, you have the people who are fans of it that are like, this is the woke media, the woke mob, Hollywood, all tearing into this or, you know, making this being gay and agenda, and it's not the case. Like, this really isn't that big of a deal if you watch it. You understand that Vecna, who is who they're fighting in this? He preys on people's fears. He uses that against them, and he uses those anxieties to control them. And so Will's one of Will's biggest fears was coming out and how his friends would respond to it. And Vecna used that to control him. So one of the ways for Will to get past this was to get over the fear of his family finding out, his friends finding out. And so that's why he had to sit down in this moment and have this conversation with them. It's just truly that simple. There's no agenda. There's no. This wasn't pointless. It didn't go on for 20 minutes as everybody's saying it. It was a moment that had to happen. Everybody's been speculating it. You no longer have to speculate. Even some of the friend or not friend group, Robin, were speculating it as well. So now he addressed it, and now he has conquered one of his fears. And that is a step into beating Vecna, which is necessary going into the finale. I don't understand what the big deal is.
- [27:02]
A
There's no big deal. Except for homophobia, I would say that's. That's a big deal. So. And look, you know, I'm not going to browbeat you guys about anything like that. First, I want to let y' all know, somebody confessing something before a big fight is such an overdone movie trope. It happens all the time in movies. Hey, just to let you know, we're about to go into battle. Before we go into battle, I want to let you know I've always loved you. Now, right now, be honest and tell me that you never seen that in the movie before. Hey, we're about to go into this big thing right now. I want you to know this before we go into this big fight. Ba ba. Tell me you never seen that. If you tell me that you've never seen that in a movie before, you're lying. You don't watch very many movies, particularly movies where there's going to be a big fight, because that's kind of stuff happens all the time. I've always loved you. Like, I know that you love her. I know that. Blah, blah, blah. You guys don't have a problem with the timing? You don't have a problem with the battle, Have a problem with the vecna. You have a problem with the gay. Let's just talk about it. Let's just get it out there so we can discuss it. Let's just talk about it. You have a problem with the gay. You don't like the gay. The gay bothers you. The gay upset you. Let's just talk about why that is rather than obfuscate and make it about a million other things. I'm not going to judge you. I'm not going to judge anyone. I'm going to say the reality is, things like that happen in movies, big time movies, all the time. There might be one or two people that go, who cares about love or what happened. There might be a couple. But the uproar over this because we still can't talk about the gay. I am pro gay. I'm not one of the people that just goes, hey, you know what? It's okay if you're gay. Nah, Death drop. I think that shit is amazing. Boom. Hit that shit. Suck that dick. Suck it. Go out there, tell everyone. Rub your gay in their face. That's who you are. Now. Why shouldn't. Why shouldn't you get to celebrate that? And why should we bristle at you celebrating this? He told his friends he was gay. They're about to go fight. What's his name? Vinny. Sure, okay. They about to go fight Vinny. He wanted his people to know, hey, just to let y' all know, maybe he's talking to his homie after this, you know, maybe we could go catch a movie or something like that. If we survive. It's just not. It's not about the scene.
- [29:27]
B
It's a really good point. It's a really good point because actually this season as well, there are two characters, Nancy and Jonathan, who are about to die. So. And it's also like right before death or, you know, they possibly might not. Might not make it out in a battle, something like that. They're about to die and they end up confessing certain things. They're in a relationship and they end up confessing certain things that they didn't like in their relationship. And they pretty much break up and they have this unproposal. Cause he had a ring for her. And they unpropose and nobody had an issue. And it went on for too long. Cause I'm a proposal. I think Nancy and Jonathan both shouldn't be with us anymore on this show. But nobody had an issue with that like they do with Wilf. To your point. To your point.
- [30:11]
A
We know what it is, guys. It's okay. We just gotta discuss it. You know, there've actually been movies where characters have actually been like, hey, it's gonna happen. The whole thing is gonna happen. We should go ahead and fuck real quick and get that out the way so we can go fight whatever's coming. That happens. That happens in movies.
- [30:27]
B
If the world was ending, I'm pretty sure I would Be on that tip too. Like, y' all should ask yourself that question. If the world was ending or I knew I was about to die. I think about stuff like that. Like, what would. With my last 24 hours. Sex would definitely be in the last 24 hours.
- [30:43]
A
It would be something or you saying something. First of all, you said that there was a narrative component to this. Or just you saying something. Look, once again, I'm not coming down on you guys. I realize that, like, all of this stuff isn't your fault. You got this from your parents, you got this from your. Your crew. You got this from society. Can we just discuss it, though? Let's not get into the situation of judging each other. But the videos and all of the stuff that you're making, when you're making these intellectual arguments about why this shouldn't have happened in this scene. None of that makes any sense whatsoever. If you've seen more than 20 movies, it just doesn't make any sense. Or TV shows or whatever. It doesn't make any sense. So let's just talk about it. Let's just discuss it. Why it bothers you, why you don't want nobody to do the death drop. Why you don't like the ballroom. Why all of that makes your skin crawl. What is it called? Is this Vogue is one thing.
- [31:40]
B
I don't know what that is.
- [31:40]
A
You see when somebody turns around and hits that, how do they do that?
- [31:45]
B
It looks very painful to me.
- [31:46]
A
They. They do it. So when we were stretching for football, because I gotta say something manly now, because I gotta assert my manhood again. Now that we've talked about this, we used to do these things called hurdles. You ever did that stretch before where you take this and you put back. Yeah, they go into that and then.
- [32:02]
B
They pop right back up.
- [32:04]
A
What the fuck is happening? How do they do that?
- [32:06]
B
I don't know.
- [32:07]
A
Is that part of the gene? Okay, let's move on.
- [32:12]
B
Please, please. All that. You're so pro gay. So I'm saying because all gay people. Death dropped. It's just in them.
- [32:24]
A
Not all, but there's a correlation. But, like, so what I'm saying is, let's just discuss it. Let's just. Can we just. In 2026, let's forget about all of the. Let's just discuss it. Can we just discuss it?
- [32:38]
B
You should watch Heated rivalry.
- [32:40]
A
Oh, I have watched it. Bill put me onto that. Oh, yeah, Bill put me onto that. Like, I didn't.
- [32:47]
B
It's all the. I have not started it yet. It's. It's it will be my next show.
- [32:51]
A
But now they going hard, man. They're not.
- [32:53]
B
Oh, people obsessed with it.
- [32:57]
A
That, that one will test you, you know, test your progressive. They, they, they get into it and he the rivalry. It's a show. You guys watch it. They should do he heated rivalry for every, every sport. If they did one like the NBA, just do two brothers, man, these people, man, push these people. Push these people, man. Push these and cast two people. I don't know, just push these motherfuckers. Do it in rap. Call it battle rap. Two niggas battle. After that, they looking at each other like, oh shit, I like your hat.
- [33:39]
B
So good, so good, so good.
- [33:42]
E
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- [33:53]
B
How did I not know Rack has Adidas?
- [33:55]
A
There's always something new.
- [33:56]
E
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- [34:07]
B
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- [34:28]
A
A hard working moisturizer.
- [34:29]
B
Revitalift triple power moisturizer by l' Oreal Paris. Grab it today in fragrance, free or with SPF 30. Available at your local Walmart.
- [34:38]
A
Before we get into some more stuff, I do want to talk about some backlash that I've been receiving. Some on threads.
- [34:46]
B
Some on threads. If you're receiving backlash, it's gonna pop up on threads because people are on threads.
- [34:53]
A
Yeah. About the Chappelle stuff, I've gotten, I've gotten more calls and more correspondence from people about the Chappelle stuff than almost anything else that I've said.
- [35:05]
B
Dave, Dave, did Dave hit you?
- [35:07]
A
No, no, no, no. Dave did not hit me up. People were really, really responsive not only to the stuff that I said on the podcast about the Chappelle stuff, but also to a video that I made, I put on Instagram about the Chappelle stuff. And it was like, it was very interesting to see some of the criticisms that people had about my take on Chappelle. What? Why do you think people are so animated about it?
- [35:35]
B
Well, I think that people love Dave Chappelle.
- [35:38]
A
Yeah.
- [35:38]
B
And so they. Because, I mean, I didn't necessarily agree with you, but I'm not like, I'm seeing it too, because I posted it on my social media. I know you did a video in response to it, but I guess I was surprised how so many people, how strongly they feel about it or that can't just say, oh, I disagree. It's. You're wrong. You don't get it. You. And it's like you're being a contrarian and I'm like, I actually understand your point. I just don't agree with it. And so I just think the only thing I can deduce from that is, is people just have this. Obsession may be too strong of a word, but just Dave is always right.
- [36:18]
A
Here's my problem with all of this. I'm right. I'm unambiguously right about this, and it is not meant as a shot. Tell me specifically, what don't you agree with me about in terms of what I said?
- [36:37]
B
I mean, for me, it's just simple. I don't think. Because you kept saying, like, oh, you know, like, he's pulling the wool over your eyes. I don't think that's the exact term you use, but same sentiment. I don't think that that was it. I think it was. I didn't take it as deeply as you did. For me, it was just simple.
- [36:51]
A
Oh, Jesus Christ.
- [36:53]
B
For me, it was just simple.
- [36:55]
A
He didn't.
- [36:55]
B
What? For me, it was simple. He was just. And maybe I'm looking at it too lightly, but for me, he was saying, when I come over here, I'm allowed to do this. And for people who are getting mad at me, you're not understanding the hypocrisy in that. Cause you're making it seem like the United States is better or on a different level. And I think that you can compare. Hey, this may be what's going on here is worse than what's going on here. You have more freedoms and ability than you would have over here. I think that all makes sense. But I just think that he was like, you're hypocritical because you're acting like you're throwing a stone in a glass house. You're acting as if everything is much better and perfect over there when people are suffering in the country that you live in as well. So maybe you shouldn't just say anything that's. I just took it right there, very surface level. But I understand exactly what you're saying. I'm just didn't take it as deeply There. I use the word again for you.
- [37:52]
A
Wow, it's tough. So. So I think that there was a. And I'll just go into this one more time because I actually think this is important, is super important because of the age that we live in. We live in an age of power consolidation. Fans have become stans. Admirers of celebrities have become a part of their flock. Now, maybe that always existed. An aunt of mine follow Prince from New Orleans all the way up to Minnesota. Okay, so maybe all of this stuff has always existed, but it's.
- [38:29]
B
But to your point, it's deeper because we are more connected than we've ever been. So you can obsess in ways that you couldn't before.
- [38:36]
A
Right. But they've always been deadheads and people like that.
- [38:39]
B
Groupies and roadies. But yeah.
- [38:42]
A
So to me, it is more important now than ever to analyze what people are saying to you and, like, why they're saying it. Obviously, Dave's point was to do what you just said. His point was to say, hey, people are coming at me for this performance, coming at me for this performance, and they're acting like they live in a place that allows them to criticize another place. All right? That's one thing that's totally different. If you want to admonish people about throwing stones from a glass house, perfectly fine to do that. Now, I will say this, that if we did that for every single issue in every single instance, we would never get to the heart of an issue. What that's true. What I always hate when we're talking about something is somebody going, that is a good thing to discuss, but it's a bad person that's discussing it. Right? It's. You can't say that. That's the first thing that people do. And that is a tool that power uses to invalidate an argument. Like, they go, hey, look at this person. I mean, they try to do that to Martin Luther King Jr. Like, look at how bad this person is. This person can't be the bellwether for what it is that you're talking about.
- [40:13]
C
Out.
- [40:13]
A
In order for us to talk about this and discuss this, we're going to need somebody that's beyond reproach in order to do this. I won't get all off into that. What you're saying that Dave did is true. But then there's another point of it, the Charlie Kirk point. The Charlie Kirk point is that I'm safer to do what I do in Saudi Arabia than I am here. Look what happened to Charlie Kirk. That to me I still believe is either a major miscalculation by Dave or it is straight up. And this is what I will acquiesce to, is that it's not my place to get into somebody's head and tell them and tell you what they meant. I'm not in his head. Right. So that is fair. But saying that I'm freer to do. I'm safer to do something here than I am to do it over here and not talk about a. The reasons why and be the people that can't do that safely in that country. I'm sorry, I just think that Dave Chappelle is smarter than that. I really do. Maybe I'm doing it again. I just, I. I personally think that Dave Chappelle is. He understands that. I think that was a clever rhetorical trick to get people off of maybe some accurate and also some inaccurate criticisms about his performance there. Right. When I talk.
- [41:42]
B
Well, I do think that that was the motive, for sure.
- [41:44]
A
Well, so that's really what I'm talking about. What I'm saying is if we're going to have a conversation about whether or not a powerful person is safe to do something in any place, then we have to talk about why they're safe to do it. Right? Because. And the reason why I'm making this into a bigger issue is because everywhere you look right now there, people are taking these. They're taking these figures and they're leveraging these figures for power. They've always already. They've already. They've always done it, but right now, it's happening in a very direct way, right? So you have a bunch of people that are saying, hey, buy my black thing. Buy it. It's black. Buy it. It's black. Buy my black thing. Buy my black liquor. Buy my black app. Buy my black whatever. Buy it. All right? And they're cloaking business and culture, but it actually doesn't even matter that they're doing that as much as the fact that your capture and the fact that you can't see past that is being leveraged by people to make you move in ways, right? Politically, you have people like Donald Trump who have such a capture of their audience. They're like, if he does it, it's okay. Doesn't matter. If he does it, it's okay. This consolidation of power, both political and cultural, we have to live in an age of objectivity. I desperately don't want to ramble here. And that means when someone says something and we go, hmm, I don't know, doesn't matter who that person is. Let's just have a conversation. Because if you're telling me right now that you're in Saudi Arabia and you feel safer there, well, you're the power and the privileged of Saudi Arabia. You're there at the behest of the Saudi Arabian government. You're there because you're there to be safe telling jokes. If anything happens to you, it's embarrassing to them. That situation is a totally different situation than what Charlie Kirk was in. Like, Charlie Kirk probably would have been very safe making a speech on behalf of Donald Trump in a place where he was protected by the National Guard or whoever was going to protect him in that capacity. It's cool. The question would be if Dave Chappelle just flew to Saudi Arabia without MBS being involved, got off the plane and went somewhere in Saudi Arabia to a school or to a place or somewhere like that and just started telling jokes, whatever jokes, how safe would he be then? And how safe with the people that would be listening to it would be then to compare those two things? That's. And like and, and even more so, forget about whether or not you agree with me or you don't agree with me. Right. Man, I was on the phone with people and people were saying all kinds of shit that was just ahistorical. People were like, well, you know, Dave Chappelle has never been somebody that stood on any type of principle for anything and walked away from anything. Because the principal, I asked somebody say that to me and I was like, what are you talking about? He's like, well, Dave Chappelle. When did Dave Chappelle ever. He just says whatever. When did Dave Chappelle ever stand on principle or anything like that? That and, and turn anything down? I'm like, they. Chappelle walked away from a 50 million dollar deal because he didn't like the way people was laughing at the jokes that he wrote. Yeah, that he wrote.
- [45:22]
B
He didn't know if they were laughing.
- [45:23]
A
With him or with him or Adam that he wrote. But 15, 20 years later, he's making a joke about somebody from a segment of the population dying. And then like, he doesn't understand the response to that. Like, he doesn't. He doesn't get that. He doesn't. He wrote jokes and he saw the way people were responding to his jokes and that bothered him. But he doesn't understand people being bothered by some of the stuff that he's putting out there. Or he just doesn't care.
- [45:56]
B
He doesn't care.
- [45:56]
A
Last thing I'll say is out there, and he doesn't have to. Last thing I'll say about this, we also just have to be honest with each other about the things that we care about. Say this to everyone. A year ago, man, we were having a conversation about Andrew Schultz and the jokes that he made about black women. And we got deep, deep, deep, deep into the power of rhetoric. We talked about how jokes about black women reinforce tropes about black women that didn't allow black women to be harmed, that didn't allow this, that didn't allow that. And we talked about it all, man. We ran that up the flagpole all the way to Kendrick Lamar. Kendrick Lamar said, no white comedian make jokes about black women. That's law. We talked about all of that stuff, right? And the reason is we care about that. Our mothers, our sisters, the women that we work with, the women that hold us down behind the scenes, these are black women. We were protecting them. We care about them. And we don't care about trans people.
- [46:58]
C
People.
- [46:59]
A
We don't. Don't care about them. Don't give a. Somebody could make jokes about them. If we love that person, jokes about their. Their harm, their hurt, and if we love that person, we'll be like, we're okay with that. I'm not once again criticizing people. I'm saying, let's live in it so that we can discuss the why. Let's admit to the fact that that that is the way that that is, so we can discuss the why. And we can discuss on the other side if there is something more that we need to be doing or if we need to move differently. But to act like it doesn't exist is fucking whack. It's like it to. To me personally, yo, when. When everybody was talking about that and every black woman that I know was so upset. I get it. I get it. But, man, I have a hard time getting a year out from that and people going, it's just jokes. It's the same jokes he's been making for a long time.
- [47:58]
B
Can I ask you a question?
- [48:00]
A
Sure.
- [48:00]
B
Does the media matter? Because, and I'm not saying that you're wrong, I do think that people do not care as much about trans rights as they do other rights. Because as we said again about this podcast, I'm not saying that you don't care about the people, but you're easy to push that to the side than you are other rights that seem to be more prevalent. And I think that's because, as we've talked about, something has to more affect you, we're human persons. But the reason I ask you, does the media matter? Is because if I'm watching somebody tell a joke on stage and it's about black women, like in a comedy club, in a special, that's easier for me to digest than listening to a bro podcast or Andrew Schultz say something about black women that's supposed to be joking, it hits different for me. And I'm asking you, does the media matter? Because if I'm listening to you say a joke in a movie or I know specifically this is comedy and everybody kind of gets it in comedy sometimes, as opposed to you podcasting. I'm not listening for the jokes or I'm not seeing it as in a joking way. To me, it seems more poking fun or made fun of. That's how I perceive it. I'm curious, do you perceive it it that way or maybe either one of you guys out there, do you see it that way? Does the media matter to you or does it hit different?
- [49:26]
A
If I'm being honest with you, all cars on the table. None of this bothers me that much. Okay, so, so, so just, just so I. I'll put it to you like this, but like, like, none of this bothers me that much. The reason why I said what I said when I was on flagrant is because I'm not making jokes about that.
- [49:45]
B
Right, because you're not a comedian.
- [49:46]
A
Like, I'm not.
- [49:47]
B
Well, I knew that was staying a little bit. Okay, I saw your post talking about that. You're gonna, you gonna hit the stage.
- [49:54]
A
Okay, auntie. All right. None of this shit bothers me that much. None of it. Like, none of it bothers me. There's some of the stuff that comes out that I laugh at it. There's. There are jokes that.
- [50:10]
B
See, I would disagree. You get real defensive sometimes when people start talking about black men.
- [50:16]
A
Well, if, well, hold on. If you make jokes about black men. I have a joke that I wrote.
- [50:21]
B
Well, we gotta hear it.
- [50:24]
A
It's a long joke. I have a joke that I wrote about. The premise of the joke is about the difference between maleness, difference between black men and black women. When it comes to white people. The premise is black men have some use for white people. Black women have zero use for white people. I go through a whole description of it, right? So I have no problem understanding that there is differences here. And you can joke with brothers and stuff like that. Like, I have no issue with that. No problem. I think jokes about black men are one thing. Limiting criticisms about black men that assume the worst of us in every situation. I am sensitive to that. I will, like, admit that. No problem. I think to get back to your question is my rational mind tells me that there are things that we care about more than other things. And I'm not asking everybody to care about everything equally. Not because that doesn't make any sense. If somebody said something about you versus somebody saying something about somebody else, I'm gonna react differently. Right. If you talk about Louisiana, I might say, hey, don't do that. If you talk about Wisconsin, I might be like, hey, that's funny, money. It's differently. Like your proximity and all that stuff matters. I'm not asking people to be more than human. But what I am saying is that, like, when important people are saying stuff, we have to be able to analyze that stuff, regardless of who those people are. And so. And if we cannot do that, if we can't do that because y' all so busy dick sucking, I'm telling you, little parts of your mind are about to be grabbed. This is not. Not a huge, ridiculously universal ending issue that I'm talking about. I'm just saying, look, when Sister said what they said, they was upset. They was mad. I'm like. Like, I have no problem with that. I'm also going to be mad on their behalf. I'm going to be with them. I get it. But if we get a year out and the thing is what we do just be playing sometimes, well, then let's play. Let's play then. I'm not saying. I'm saying at least understand that there is a disconnect there so that we can talk about why the disconnect exists. Because it's a bunch of people, and they might not be as plentiful as the population of black ladies or the men who love them or the white people that pretend to love them. Like, there might be a. A smaller group of people that's going, hey, I just let y' all know that y' all are laughing when our lives are in danger, man. What's. What's with that? And if that disconnect exists, we just explore it. And can we explore it without the. Can we explore all of this stuff? Can we explore the reason that, like, we feel differently about Michael Jackson, we feel differently about some of these other people that have allegations? We explore. Then we can get into the guts of it and we can talk about who we actually are. But if we let them be shielded by reputation, accolades, or past nostalgia, then, I don't know, we. At this particular point, where we really need to be analyzing everything. It's going to be somebody on the screen that's going to tell you, hey, this AI data center coming to your crib, there's going to be somebody that's going to tell you, hey, these people are responsible. I'm not saying that Dave Chappelle or anybody else or anyone is doing all of this. I'm just saying the messaging right now is the whole fucking battle. The messaging is the whole battle. And the willingness of people to join cults, the willingness of people to be a part of something that doesn't turn a critical eye. I feel like people know that that's how it is now. They know that we're there. They know that, like, right now, I could say whatever I want to say about Donald Trump, but if I were to say right now, I don't think the Democrats should run Kamala Harris in 2028, but I don't think they should run her. I think that window is closed. Honestly and truly, I don't think they should run it.
- [54:37]
B
Oh, you're really saying that?
- [54:39]
A
I don't think that they should run her.
- [54:40]
B
Okay, so what's.
- [54:41]
E
What.
- [54:41]
B
What's your point of saying?
- [54:42]
A
My point is if it's saying that would inspire a whole group of people to say, you shouldn't be able to say that.
- [54:51]
B
Oh, I'm sure.
- [54:53]
A
But even. Even when I say that, it would be better if we just had the conversation about, of course, whether or not misogyny war is a part of that calculation. I'm willing to be like, hey, all of these things exist. I know that they exist. Can we talk about them so that maybe we can get the pus out and get to a place where we're clean and we understand?
- [55:18]
B
Of course.
- [55:19]
A
And it just. It just seems like rather than do that, there are just some people that we. We hold and regard and we protect, even when they're doing stuff to me that on their face is fucked up. And I'm. And I've just seen that be used to sell us a bill of goods in so many different ways. And I'm wondering how we approach that. And maybe I'm on the other side. Last thing I'll say. Maybe I'm on the other side. May. Maybe I'm on the side where I'm too sensitive to that, to being captured. Maybe I'm too.
- [55:48]
B
You should be.
- [55:48]
A
Yeah, maybe I'm too sensitive to that. You know what I'm saying? So, like, I don't know. It's interesting. There's a lot of People that shouldn't run, that should get fuck out of here.
- [55:58]
B
But you didn't say them. You said calmer one.
- [55:59]
A
Because I know that that would fucking. I know that people would think that that was.
- [56:04]
B
It's too soon for me to say anything.
- [56:06]
A
What do you think it's too soon.
- [56:08]
B
For me to say that.
- [56:09]
A
What would change? What have to change?
- [56:10]
B
Well, a lot could change. I don't know what Kamala's gonna do in 2026. I don't know what she's gonna do in 2027. I have no idea. I can't say right now. She shouldn't run when I don't know what her positions are going. If she. 1. If she's gonna run and if she does decide what her positions are gonna be, I'm not gonna say that prematurely because that means that you're holding her to a standard of 2024. And I can't do that. I can't do that yet. I can't do that.
- [56:36]
A
Is that a fair. That could be fair.
- [56:41]
B
And so I just. I. And so I do think that that is fair to say, and it would be unfair for me to. To say that right now because I'm only basing it off of a certain point. Now. I could have a.
- [56:53]
A
To.
- [56:54]
B
I could join you at the end of 2026, but I can't say that right now.
- [56:59]
A
Are you saying then I will.
- [57:00]
B
I couldn't say. There's not. I wouldn't tell anybody. They should not run in 2028. I'm not. I don't know yet. It's too soon.
- [57:08]
A
I think it's a bunch of people that shouldn't run. I think we're done with people to judge.
- [57:13]
B
Oh, I didn't realize he would even was even an option since.
- [57:17]
A
Since we're. Since we're. Since we're doing a whole they shouldn't run thing more than Kamala Harris. You know who shouldn't run? Rahm Emanuel.
- [57:29]
B
Is he running?
- [57:30]
A
Everybody is saying that Rahm Emanuel is positioning a run. Rahm Emanuel, please do us all a favor, bro. Go run a consultant firm somewhere doing something. Rahm Emanuel. Go somewhere and shut the fuck up. No. No. To that entire generation of Democrats. No. Nope. I hear Rami. Fuck outta here.
- [58:02]
B
This is how you can tell this is an end of the year podcast.
- [58:04]
A
Why?
- [58:05]
B
Because one, we're low on news, and the news that we have is like, we'd rather just have conversations with each other about, like, what's going on.
- [58:16]
A
It bothered you that I don't want Rahm to run. You like him.
- [58:19]
B
I don't want him to run in 2028. I don't want Pete to run. I didn't even know that was an option.
- [58:24]
A
Pete's sniffing around at it.
- [58:26]
B
I didn't even know that was an option. But. But it's too early for me to say Kamala Harris.
- [58:30]
A
So last thing I'll say about that as we got into this whole thing, is that it would also be interesting to me if her positions were dramatically different. Two years or like, if she.
- [58:46]
B
Something's gonna have to be a little different.
- [58:47]
A
Well, some things are, but like, even those things that are different, you kind of gotta ask why?
- [58:52]
B
Well, and that's that. It will be very interesting because she's right now on a book tour. She's on a friendly book tour. She's going to place that have been. She's doing a lot more media, a lot more smaller media I've seen her do and podcasts and stuff, or even sit downs, but it's been friendly. And she's in a position where she can be very critical of what's happening right now. And from a position of, well, you didn't elect me. It would have been different. And so if she decides to run now, tell me how it would be different. Now you have to back up that energy that you've had on the book tour. We know that, you know, people. She's announced that she's. She's extending her book tour in 2026. Some people are saying she's going to places that you wouldn't typically go, which makes it seem like she's. It's more of a campaign testing the waters a bit. I. I almost want her to, because I want to see how she's going to back up the energy that she's been giving so far on the book tour. Well, should have voted for me. It would have been different. Well, 107 days didn't show us that. So I'm really curious, really, really curious as to how she'll respond. Like, so curious. I want her to run because I just really want to see. There has to be a difference, and I want to see what it would be.
- [60:11]
A
Hmm, that's interesting.
- [60:13]
B
My curiosity wants her to run.
- [60:16]
A
I think that she will. I think that there's some windows that closed. I think the windows that closed were Pete, Gretchen Whitmer. Kamala had a shot at it. All of those people and some people downstream from that, like Rahm Emanuel's window, didn't close because it was never open. Right. Okay. All the people kind of around that, downstream from that, those kind of legacy centrist Democrats, not so much with. With. With Pete. He was kind of a phenom that came out of nowhere. They're going to have difficulty reconciling some of the ways that they've been in the past and some things in their record and some things that they've said and done with a political reality in America that currently exists. Gavin Newsom is very close to that as well. However, he's been a little bit more dynamic in reinventing himself in the moment than some of these other people have been. And let's face it, once you've run a campaign already and been in a campaign, the oppo research is crazy. America's had their chance to make their decision on you, and you almost have a larger task ahead of you in that reinvention. Some of these people, we know a lot about them, about where they've been, things they've done, things they haven't done. So, you know, not quite sure if going back to the previous group of people is exactly what needs to happen, but maybe that'll be wrong. We'll have to see if they're gonna run all that stuff. Donnie, are you alive?
- [62:04]
B
Donnie fell asleep here listening.
- [62:06]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Trying to stay away. Wait, I got coffee.
- [62:08]
B
I'm good to go.
- [62:09]
A
Oh, I was kidding.
- [62:10]
B
D Day. Damn.
- [62:11]
A
I thought we had a good pod going, but Donnie said it. Do we want to get into Nigeria? Because, like, we. It's. It's. It's not.
- [62:18]
B
It's not what to you?
- [62:20]
A
It's. No, it is. It's important, but, like, it might be something that's better with a guest or. Do you want to talk about it?
- [62:25]
B
I mean, the moment you brought it up, I was like, I think. I think we should have. We should have a guest come on and talk about it. I mean, I mean, it's interesting. Monday, other than the fact that there have been strikes, do we know anything else? Do we know? We've seen a lot of pictures come out, particularly in ap, of the damage that happened to the villages that were around there. But, like, do we know how many people were killed? Do we know if targets were specifically hit? If anybody? Like, do we know anything other than the damage that we've seen thing? Because I have not seen that anywhere. When I was trying to find it, I'm like, so what? Other than obviously this. That fitting a certain narrative, doing it on Christmas Day, saying you're saving Christians. The political. The distraction, obviously, from the Epstein files. I mean, like, other than the obvious things with that. You leading this crusade, really trying to rebrand yourself. Hey, don't pay attention to all the salacious stuff that my name is connected to. And, and the emails and all the file, like my name and all these files. Pay attention to the fact that on Christmas Day, I'm leading a crusade to save Christians because there's a genocide against Christians in Nigeria, which Nigerian officials will tell you there are an equal amount of Muslims and Christians and both are being attacked. And in that area in particular, there are actually less Christians than there are Muslims. So it's very obvious what's being done here by the Trump administration. But. But nothing I feel like has come out in regards other than there were strikes, there was some structural damage to buildings and people's homes and where they live, the villages. But, like.
- [64:07]
A
What are we doing?
- [64:08]
B
Where do we go from here? I would love for an expert to talk about this. Obviously, there's a different agenda here than saving Christians, because we know that Trump doesn't give a fuck about Nigeria. You called it a shithole country. You took away foreign aid that impacts the country. You clearly don't care about Nigerians whether they're Christian or not. So what. What is it?
- [64:35]
A
Yeah. So, I mean, we could do a deeper, more scholarly breakdown of what actually is going on in Nigeria. The differing factions that are engaged in violence.
- [64:48]
B
Right. That have. That has been going on.
- [64:51]
A
It's been going on for a long time. There are some Christians that have. That are. There's a lot of Christians that have been killed in Nigeria.
- [64:56]
B
Yes, but it's not a genocide.
- [64:59]
A
Well, no, it's not a genocide. We could talk about that. We could break that down with somebody and get into that. Get into some other reasons why that might be happening that don't have anything to do with direct targeting of Christians, although there are. And there are Christians that are being directly targeted. But to your larger Muslims too. Muslims. Listen, I'm in no way arguing that there's an actual Christian genocide going on in Nigeria, but if we were to have a conversation about what's going on in Nigeria, the conversation has to do with a lot of differing factors, a lot of things that are happening, a lot of reasons that the parts of Nigeria right now are in battle. Some of them having to do with. Even with climate change. Change. Climate change is a factor in the way some groups that are herdsmen are killing people that are in the way of their herding and all of that different type of stuff. Get into that with people that know the Specifics or whatever. The point that you're making about how Trump is using this is probably most important point for Americans to understand is that this is a part of MAGA and their white male Christian orthodoxy. And now that that has been well established in America, United States of America, it is something that needs to be exported and it's something that needs to be waged war on behalf what Trump is doing right now. And strikes in Nigeria, all that stuff that's like almost akin to the Crusades. Exactly like that. You know, you, you have people who believe in their heart of hearts that there is a specific attack, not necessarily on Christians in Nigeria, but a specific attack on Christianity everywhere. And not just Christianity, but white Christians, and not just white Christians, but white male Christians. And out of that idea comes this really powerful grievance that you see reflected in the Griper movement, in the MAGA movement and in this sort of worldwide ethnocentrism that is being centralized to really like Ginny up a lot of power for people, wherever it exists. Ginny up a lot of power for people. You need villains for that. No matter where those villains are, no matter who those villains are. And then you need figureheads for that. Whether it's Trump, Nick Fuentes here, Ted Cruz or any people that go along with that stuff, whether it's Tommy Robinson in the uk, whatever those people, whoever those people are, wherever they are. The purity and the sanctity of the white male Christian and that sanctity being under attack is just incredibly useful to understand who we have to kill and not only to understand who we have to kill, but to understand who we have to save. And it's very funny to watch Vivek Ramaswamy and all of these different people get embroiled in identity to get to have to defend their ethnic identity. When they said in the past that people were too concerned about it. Yep. That people were too concerned about it. That wokeism was this dogma that was all and affecting everything and ruining everything. And then to be told by people who are on your side or rise in amount of people that you are a shit eater and an anchor baby and you should go back to where you're from. Literally having to write an op ed.
- [68:57]
B
About it, begging, pleading.
- [68:58]
A
It's interesting. But understand in the worldwide trial that Trump and his people believe is happening against white men, these strikes are part of the evidence. Yeah, these strike. This is exhibit A. Look what we had to do. This is actually exhibit like C. Exhibit A was probably look at all the Christians we have to remove out of South African white Africans. Like, we. Like, we have to protect them. These are all different exhibits in the actual trial. And the trial is the trial of the white Christian and specifically the white Christian male. So that's important to know about all of this stuff. And the fact that there are no limits that the administration won't go to. To continuously lay on that bed.
- [69:51]
E
Right.
- [69:52]
A
That they have to do this.
- [69:53]
B
Right.
- [69:53]
A
And Epstein. Do you believe that Epstein is important now? Because you didn't before. You didn't care about it.
- [69:58]
B
It's not that I don't think it's important. I just feel like the way. Cause here's the thing. It's like, what do we believe? When.
- [70:06]
A
When.
- [70:07]
B
When the new. The second batch came out.
- [70:09]
A
Oh, shit. I was like, that shit dropping like the new Jeezy.
- [70:12]
B
I was like, oh, there was all this stuff coming out, like the Larry Nasser letter. And I was like, oh, this is going to be interesting in the reports where Trump's name is all over these files that are mentioned. And then the DOJ started posting stuff on X where they were like, some of these documents contain untrue and sensationalist claims made against President Trump. The claims are particularly to the Nassar letter. They're saying that the claims are unfounded and false, and if they had a shred of credibility, they would have been weaponized against President Trump already. So even when stuff comes out, the DOJ is like, well, that's fake, or that's not true, or this already would have been used. Or, you know, then there was stuff that came out about an alleged rape by Trump and Epstein of. Towards a woman. And there was this post that went viral, and, you know, people were sharing it everywhere. And then. Then they went through and said, oh, it is confirmed to be real. This is the doj. But the allegations are part of a court document from a call, a 2020 call to the FBA tip line, and totally unconfirmed.
- [71:30]
A
FBA.
- [71:31]
B
Oh, sorry.
- [71:32]
A
Damn.
- [71:32]
B
That's the school I went to. Sorry. FBI.
- [71:34]
A
Fba. They.
- [71:35]
B
No fba. First Academy, not Foundation, FBI. But my point being is that information comes out, and then here's the DOJ saying, oh, this is not true. Oh, this is unconfirmed. Oh, and it's like. It's just. I don't know if this was their goal, right? To piecemeal information to where we're so overwhelmed, to where it's. We just. They do it during Christmas, so we're totally distracted. We're not focused on it. People aren't really Paying attention, it just. And then when stuff does come out, it's like, oh, we already have an excuse for that. It just feels like nothing is going to be done with this. And they're able to excuse it in a way, I think that exposes them. But to their base, or maybe to conservatives, it just seems like, oh, this is a bunch of nothingness that all of this is piled to, because it's not leading to a list, it's not leading to connecting Trump directly to abuse. None of that is existing. So it's just all this information of stuff that we are being inundated with, which is really turning out to nothing other than a lot of just misinformation on the Internet. So I guess that's one way to look at it, which is kind of how I do. I don't feel like it's really having an impact, or you could look at it as it is, and it's just piling on to all the other stuff that. That Trump is having to endure, and maybe the walls are closing in on him. You could look at that, at that way. But for me, I just feel like it's just becoming white noise to people at this point, because nothing is landing, nothing is stopping.
- [73:16]
A
What does it mean to you that the Department of Justice is commenting on this in a way that seeks to pre exonerate the president for anything?
- [73:25]
B
I think that's how they've been existing. I think that's how all the people who have been supporting the administration, Congress, the doj, the Supreme Court, I think that's all of everything that they've been doing. So to me, it's just falling in line with what we've seen, particularly in the second term, more than the first. So it's just, just. It's like I keep waiting for something, and to be very honest, I don't even trust that if there was something. This is coming from a DOJ that is totally about protecting Trump and the administration and his legacy. If there was something, do you even believe that that was that they would release it?
- [74:05]
A
All right, let me ask you a question. Let me. Let's say that you're in a significant other, in a relationship with a significant other, and for whatever reason you asked to see his phone. Let's put a pin there before we get to the other side of it. Number one, the moment that you asked to see his phone, there is already tremendous distrust in the relationship. Okay, so. So there's something you want to see in his phone. There's a reason that you believe that There might be something. Okay, two, let's say that when you ask to see his phone, he goes, no, I want you to see it. There's nothing going on in there. I don't need you to see it. You don't have to see anything that's going on in the phone.
- [75:01]
B
Right.
- [75:03]
A
You have to go to the phone seer counsel and get them to act to compel him to show you what's in his phone. You have to go get actually legislation, litigation for him to show you what's in the phone. There's a panel of women that you guys can talk to and compel them to show what's in the phone. He has to give it up to you.
- [75:33]
B
Okay?
- [75:34]
A
Then when he shows you, he says, I'm going to show you 10 text messages at a time over the course of two weeks after this, would you be more interested in what he had going on or would you be less interested? Would you have more questions about what was going on with him or would you have less questions?
- [76:03]
B
Well, I'm immediately going to say, why are you giving it to me piecemeal?
- [76:06]
A
Well, the question is, to anyone that's looking at this, the way this is being handled, does this, as a rational, thinking person, answer your questions or does it inspire more questions? Now say this. No one knows what the answers to any of this stuff is. No one knows. No one knows whether there is direct implications of wrongdoing on behalf of the President. No one knows who else could be involved in this. What people do know know is that for some reason this was not litigated in a full throated way. It wasn't. And the more people demand, the more hesitation there is by power, of course, about how they're rolling this stuff out and who they're protecting. If in fact the President is not directly involved in any of this stuff, the questions is, the question is, should I say who is? Who is? Is everyone who abused a young lady being held accountable for that? Is everyone that had direct ties to this? Is everyone that knew? Have we uncovered all of the stones? Is all of this stuff out there we're legitimately talking about the rape of children? And so when you see all of this being done, my only thing is, all right, right, why, why put it out there? Let Americans make their, their minds up. Give them the opportunity. The reality, what I think is happening is basically, Rachel, everything that you said, rolling it out over the holidays, when they know that people would be preoccupied also rolling it out in steps, not all at the same time, to give them the opportunity to get ahead of stuff, to overly redact stuff, to then have to take those redactions back. Nobody remembers the apology. Nobody. The only thing they remember is the original thing that they got. Also, the longer this takes, the more you can flood the zone. See, when something comes out right away, you have to contend with it. But later on, you might need to flood the zone. Two weeks. Easy to flood the zone during those two weeks. Right? In a couple of days, it's going to be Dick Clark, Clark presents Ryan Seacrest, kicking Christmas, whatever the fuck that shit is. What is it called? Famous New Year. What is it called? Ryan Seacrest. It's Dick Clark presents Ryan Seacrest.
- [78:46]
B
I think it's just Dick Clark's New Year's Eve bash.
- [78:49]
A
It's Dick Clark featuring Ryan Seacrest on the track. That's what it is. I swear to God. Look, Donnie, isn't it Dick Clark presents Ryan Seacrest.
- [78:59]
B
Dick Clark presents Ryan Sequest.
- [79:00]
A
Ryan Seacrest feature Ryan Seacrest on the hook. What is. Yeah, you're right. It is Dick Clark. Dick Clark's name is definitely at the top.
- [79:06]
B
It's just Dick Clark's New Year's Rockin Eve. That's what it's called.
- [79:10]
A
Nah, it's not.
- [79:11]
B
It's Dick Clark. That's what it's called.
- [79:12]
A
Rockin Eve featuring Ryan Seacrest on the.
- [79:15]
B
Ones and twos with Ryan Seacrest.
- [79:18]
A
See, it's something like that, right? So, all right, the ball is gonna drop. No one's gonna. It's a huge. But the more distractions that people have, the further away they get away from the fact that children were abused systemically, yes, systematically, by rich and powerful people for years. And I don't understand. If there's something that you could care about more, I need you on board with the Epstein obsession by the middle of next week. No later.
- [79:55]
B
Here's the thing. It's not that I'm not paying attention to it. To it, Right? It's not that I'm not paying attention to it, but I understand. And I'm. I guess I'm speaking from the perspective. I understand what they're doing. It's like, you're be. At this point. Stop. At this point. I'm paying attention to it. We're talking about it on the podcast. But the more stuff like, just like even reading that they found they all. They located millions of documents. I'm like, oh, my God, you're talking about. Because I just know that people are like, there's. It's. It's getting watered down, which is what they want. They want people to be like, ah, yeah, other things are happening. Oh, nothing's here where they're not paying attention to it. I know what they're doing and it's working. I think, I really do think it's working.
- [80:43]
A
And that's why it's important that it doesn't work. What I'm telling you guys is when there's a new batch of documents, something came out and they dropping, telling you it's dropping like Gucci, Gucci mane mixtapes in the 2000s. Something else that came out. There's a. I want you guys to all look into this story. There's a Miami hero reporter named Julie Brown. Over the course of the decades, there've been a lot of important Julie Browns. Okay, Remember downtown Julie Brown?
- [81:07]
B
I'm from here.
- [81:08]
A
So downtown Julie Brown. And there was a white Julie Brown that existed at the same time. She was redhead. Do you know her? There were two Julie Browns.
- [81:18]
B
I did not know.
- [81:20]
A
I'm telling you, there were two downtown Julie Brown.
- [81:22]
B
It was a very common name.
- [81:23]
A
It was downtown Julie Brown. And there was another Julie Brown. I think she might have also been in MTV vj. Okay, there's another Julie Brown. Look her up. The red headed Julie Brown.
- [81:31]
B
Okay.
- [81:32]
A
She might have been a VJ too. I'm not sure.
- [81:33]
B
What about the Julie Brown though?
- [81:35]
A
So this Julie Brown works for Miami Herald. Part of her information, plain stuff was in the. Donnie, look this up. Part of her information was in the Epstein files. They found out that it looks as if she's doing all this reporting because Epstein, some of the stuff is going on in Palm Beach. She's done a lot of reporting.
- [81:58]
B
Oh, I saw this, I saw this, I saw this.
- [81:59]
A
Like it looks as if the government in some way was surveilling her back in 2019. Yeah, she was a part of it. Like her flight information and all that.
- [82:10]
B
Stuff was a part of it in.
- [82:11]
A
2019. Who was the president in 2019 when they were legitimately, it looks like perhaps surveilling reporters that were covering this. Who's the president?
- [82:22]
B
Biden. I'm just kidding. Trump. They know it's Trump. They know it's Trump.
- [82:30]
A
It's like that. You look at the stuff that's coming out, out. They were looking at her. Maybe they were going to leverage her in some kind of way during this time. It's crazy.
- [82:45]
B
I saw it.
- [82:45]
A
You saw that?
- [82:46]
B
I saw it.
- [82:47]
A
That just like that's the thing. The government was surveilling Trump's government. Trump's government was surveilling her and that's important. Remember you guys keep talking about this and keep talking about all of this. That stuff. Remember Epstein died during the Trump administration. Remember Ghislaine Maxwell was on trial. Trump said she's the best chick in the world. I wish her well. Remember like or like guys know that right now Ghislaine Maxwell was moved to a cushy federal penitentiary where she gets to have a dog and Hot Pockets and goddamn watch Hallmark movies and all of that stuff. And this all came after she went and testified. Like they gave her stuff. Yeah, none of this stuff makes sense.
- [83:35]
B
Yeah, yeah. She is an abuser and that's who they're cozying up with. Let's move on. We'll keep you. We'll keep you guys posted.
- [83:50]
E
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- [84:16]
D
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- [84:50]
A
Let's go deep into the world of entertainment. Don't okay, yeah. Let's go to Dr. Umar.
- [84:54]
D
Then he sat down with the art of dialogue discussed.
- [84:58]
A
Love the art of dialogue and Serena.
- [85:02]
C
Venus who just got married and of course interracial relationships. Marriages. She's marrying a white man like her sister. I'm gonna say this and I'm going to be very tactful art because I know what Venus and Serena had to go to through. And let's also remember Venus was out there first. She paved the way for Serena. A lot of people forget that even though Serena is the greatest tennis player of all time, even though she's starting to get some competition with Coco golf and some of these others shout out to them and the racism that they have to deal with every day. But remember, Art, white people were calling Venus and Serena monkeys, apes, animals. They were not put out the tennis matches. Remember there were white people asking for Serena Williams to be tested to make sure she was not a man. They were calling her a transgender. Art on the field, bro. So imagine, imagine. And I don't know what they self esteem was like before they started playing tennis. Think about that. Their father was a strong black man. But we don't know what they self esteem like was like before that. We don't know who else influenced them. So you got these two young black women, trailblazers kicking ass all over the tennis world, being disrespected about their hair, they body, they beautiful chocolate skin, they lips, they nose, they buttocks. I love both of them sisters. I love them both artists. It hurts my soul to see Serena Williams marry outside the race, but I know why she did it. She had been made to feel unattractive. Venus and Serena were the victims of psychological trauma at the hands of white America. That Nicki Minaj, that Nicki Minaj loves so much that she says she's so proud of it was this America that did the that to Venus and Serena. White people traumatized them two sisters.
- [87:08]
A
All right.
- [87:08]
C
And that's why, although I don't agree with Venus's recent decision to marry a white man, I don't agree with Serena's decision to marry a white man. At the end of the day, Art, these two women went into a hostile white dominated sport and took it over. And white people never forgave them for it. And in doing that for us, this is how I look at it. Art and Venus and Serena sacrificing their childhood and their adulthood to show black girls what was possible on the tennis court. The collateral damage was their self hate. And in order to rescue their self esteem, they married outside the race because neither one of them wanted their children to look like them. Them. And they didn't want their children to look like them because they didn't want their children to be subject to the same type of ridicule and hurt that they suffered. I'm not giving an excuse because it's unacceptable, but I am given a psychological explanation for Venus and Serena's behavior. If I saw them walking down the street, Art, I give them both a hug because I love what they did for black girls and black women. I love them much. So sisters, I would hug them if I saw him tomorrow, but I would still tell them, I'm still disappointed at you for bunny hopping. No ice no rice, no spice, no sand and no salsa.
- [88:40]
A
So it seems like in that you can hear that he doesn't want to shut up.
- [88:47]
B
Don't even do it. Now, there have been a couple of people that we've retired talking about on this podcast. Unless there are extreme measures, like something that it's extreme that we just can't, like, not talk about it because it is. So I guess something that's being talked about in the culture. I'm about to retire Dr. Umar because the jig has to be up at this point. I'm going to ask you legitimately, what else does Dr. Umar talk about? About other than the school that. That the. The.
- [89:23]
E
The.
- [89:23]
B
The school. The mythical school, the. The interracial couples and snow bunnies. Like, what. What would you bring him on? Like, I. I've said I've wanted him to come on this podcast, but I really, just really want to go at it. But what else is he talking about? What else is he like. I know he talks about black empowerment, but it seems like the only time he makes headlines, the only time he is a topic of conversation on this podcast is when he is talking about one of the three things that I said. It's never. No one's ever. I feel like using his quotes or, or, you know, an interview to talk about something that is positive and encouraging the black community. He's always shitting on the fact of, you know, interracial relationships, you link to self, hate all this other. Like, the jig is up. Like, please talk about something else. There's gotta be. You got a doctor in front of your name. There's gotta be something else more profound that you can talk about because this right here was not profound. It was ridiculous. And the attack on interracial couples or people dating outside of their race, it's gotta stop. There's only three exceptions where I feel like this is necessary.
- [90:33]
A
I can't wait to hear this.
- [90:35]
B
One, when you use your interracial relationship to put down your own race.
- [90:39]
A
Okay.
- [90:40]
B
Two, you only date your own race. A refusal to date. Like, as a black woman, I'm like, I refuse to date black men.
- [90:50]
A
You only date the other race is what you mean.
- [90:52]
B
Yeah, but a refusal to date your own race.
- [90:54]
A
A refusal to. Oh, okay, you said that too.
- [90:56]
B
A refusal to date your own race.
- [90:58]
A
And these are the three times that. Okay.
- [91:00]
B
That it's acceptable to go on a Dr. Umar rant. Or three, you lose your identity in your own race or with your own race to glorify the other race, which is what he's accusing the Williams sisters here. Those are the only three times I feel like it is acceptable to say the things that Dr. Umar says about interracial couples because those are rooted in self hate. That's not the Williams sisters. In legal terms, we would say he assumes. Oh, you think it is?
- [91:32]
A
I'm asking how you know.
- [91:35]
B
I'll tell you how I know. First off, I believe.
- [91:37]
A
I'm not saying that it is. I'm just asking how you know.
- [91:38]
B
I believe will say that he assumes facts that are not in evidence because he is assuming a lot here. Oh, he assumes that they hated their appearance so much that they married to procreate lives that did not have any of their features, which is such a ridiculous thing to say. When you have a biracial child, you have no idea how they're going to look. They might look like they don't have any white in them. They might look like they have all white and. Or they might have a perfect blend of both. So to say that somebody procreates with a white person because they are trying to, to whitewash their black features, you have no idea if that's gonna happen. I mean, how many times, like, you just have. You, you just have no, you just have no idea what the outcome is.
- [92:19]
A
Gonna be an idea of. Give me an example. Should I say of a biracial person that looks like Venus or Serena Williams that looks like.
- [92:26]
B
That they might not look exactly like them, but I know biracial people who don't look. I, I would have never known that they had whitened them.
- [92:34]
A
I'm gonna be honest with you.
- [92:35]
B
I would have never known.
- [92:36]
A
When Halle Berry first dropped, when she first hit the scene, strictly business. And then like also she was on some like, TV show and then she was on a couple of other things and all of that stuff. I didn't know that Halle Berry was biracial for a very long time till I saw because I'm from Louisiana.
- [92:51]
B
It's also rumored she's had surgery, plastic surgery.
- [92:54]
A
Well, she, I'm sure she, you know, whatever. Halle, do your thing. When I saw her mom, her mom was like. I was like, oh, interesting. Okay.
- [92:59]
B
But that's my point. You just don't know. So he's assuming that that is why they decided to get with a white man. Venus also doesn't even have children. Children with him. So that's another thing that he's assuming. He's saying that they got with these people so that they have children that don't look like them. Venus isn't even doesn't have a child. So that that argument is out. The other thing he assumes is that they received so much hate that it had so much of an impact on them that they lost their way with their identity. It made them hate themselves. What proof does he have of that? Because if that were the case, when they were playing tennis, they may have dressed a certain way that maybe hid some of their attributes. Youths, they would have worn their hair maybe a different way that they did to hide some of their features. They would have done certain things. In addition to that, they continue to pour into the black community through scholarship, through mentorship and through communities, community service and through foundations. They have the Williams Family Excellence Program. They have the Yatunde. I hope I'm saying that right. That's named after their sister Price Resource center. That is in Compton. Compton. They have. They work with UNICEF as goodwill ambassadors and they have the Helping Hands Jamaica Foundation. I'm sure I'm forgetting something else. They have all these programs and foundations that continue to pour into black culture and into the black community. They continue to mentor and be an inspiration to black women. As black women. Nothing that they have done has shown me that they hate themselves. They people can date outside of their race without losing their identity. I think that that is. Is this such a simple minded argument to make? Are there people that date outside of their race and totally want to erase who they were born as? Of course. But to make that a blanket statement that that happens to all people the moment that they did is that they decide to date outside of their race is just ridiculous. And I've given a number of examples as to show that Venus and Serena Williams are black women and continue to represent themselves as that and have not neglected or who they by any means just because that they are married to white men. And I think that that is such a damning thing to say that they hate themselves when he hasn't given one shred of evidence to show that they do.
- [95:17]
A
I love prosecutor rage. Boy, I could see Rach right now. See, I could see.
- [95:22]
B
I have such a disdain for Dr. Umar. I know he is a pariah.
- [95:26]
A
Oh, wow. Okay. So can we have an honest conversation about the this?
- [95:30]
B
Yeah.
- [95:30]
A
Okay, here's honest conversation. Number one, I think that was very well stated. Obviously there are a couple of things. Number one, I don't know whether or not Venus and Serena Williams hate themselves. But I also don't know whether or not anybody that dates outside of their race hates themselves. I don't know. But do think though it is Customary to assume that when somebody is dating outside of their race that they hate themselves.
- [96:01]
B
That's. I do not think that that's fair.
- [96:04]
A
I don't think that it's fair either. But what I am saying is that there is in a lot of different cases, a societal litigation as to why you do that now, particularly when it is people of some means, like meaning. You know, you look at two people in Little Rock, Arkansas, Pine Bluff. One of them work at the AutoZone, the other one work at the Piccadilly. It's a black guy and a white woman. She's a server at the Piccadilly. He works at the front desk of the AutoZone. They get together, have some babies, nobody cares. But if he had gone to Arkansas as the starting running back and gets drafted first round into the NFL and he pulls up in a Lamborghini, people start to wonder, what about him? What about that cohort of men? What about that cohort of people makes him choose white women? And then we have societal conversations about the self hate that they might be being taught. We have conversations about their proximity to whiteness and what that means. Because there seems to be a phenomena amongst those types of black men, a perceived one that makes us want to ask the question. The reason why I bring that up is because your caveats are fair to me. I completely understand it. But I will say this. Either we get the fuck over this or we don't.
- [97:49]
B
I think it's hard to get over it when you do have people who achieve a certain status or wealth and then feel like to fully complete that I have to have my white trophy wife or husband.
- [98:03]
A
But can I put a pin in that though? But you're assuming for whatever reason that that's not Venus and Serena Williams and. Hold on, let me finish.
- [98:11]
B
I'm not saying I'm assuming they don't self hate.
- [98:13]
C
Right?
- [98:14]
A
Okay. But at the same time you're assuming that that's the. I'm not saying that it is. I'm saying that like there's. If you use a mountain of evidence, like if there are certain people that we know of that we could talk about, names that we could bring up that seem like they always pushing people in your face or seem like they're always doing stuff or, or whatever, they've said things or whatever, I get that. But then if we're being fair, there are also a lot of other people that we never ask them the question about why they're dating somebody outside their race, that we assume that as part of their journey of status in America that they have to go collect a white woman. And we put that on them. And it's not like I give a fuck, right? I don't, I don't care. I. 95% of the time I think it's just fucking hilarious. You know why?
- [99:07]
B
Why?
- [99:08]
A
In a billion years, everybody gonna be dead. It's just so funny. In a billion years, not even a billion. I want everybody to sit down right now. Where you're, where you're listening to me. 50 years, you out of here. Most of you, you're done. And everything that you is dust don't matter, right? So if you are in a place where the, the white dude that delivered, if you take a shine to him, you like the white guy, you're a black woman, you like the white guy that came and brought your, all of that stuff like that. Like you, you like him. Really? You're just like, it's kind of funny that you're just like unlucky that you fell in love with someone, that it's. There's a societal taboo against you loving. It's really kind of unlucky. Lucky, right? Because there are all of these things that you didn't decide. Your race, the future of your race, racism itself. All of these things you didn't decide, you didn't decide none of that. But they govern your life. These are the questions that I go, oh my God, that's very, that's funny. But if we're talking about it, then we're talking about it. And I'm not about to say that these two sisters are self hating. But I'm also not about to say, say that a lot of the other guys that get put in this situation that their self had neither. I could look at Serena Williams, I could look at Serena Williams and I could say about Serena Williams, she dated a lot of brothers.
- [100:33]
B
Exactly.
- [100:34]
A
She had a lot of brothers that she dated. Some of the brothers maybe in the past did her wrong. Some of the brothers, maybe she did them a little wrong. And then when she pops up marriage married, she pops up married to a white man. Maybe if one of these other guys would have been a little bit more serious, she might have been married to a black man, who knows? I do also know though that with a black man, that would not be an excuse. I've been treated shittily by black women, so now let me go try white women and marry a white woman.
- [101:08]
B
We also don't know if that's what she said.
- [101:10]
A
I never said she said that. I said if in case that was the thing like, like. Because when you hear that from sisters, that's something that we kind of have to expect. We not expect, accept. We go, oh, okay. Well she says, you know, ain't she wouldn't go. That separate, equal and opposite excuse is land based. It's taken as a criticism of black women. You got the four bad ladies or we don't know what you did to them. All of that stuff. There can be no true equality with this because the power matrix doesn't exist the same and the resources don't exist the same. Like. So I'm not saying that there should be, but what I'm saying is this is a thing that we either let go in an effort to be true humanists and deal with these. The increasing complexity socially and racially of our society or is something that we continue to talk about ad nauseam for the next. And I'm not just talking about like black people. I mean there's no culture that I know this is not that don't want their people to marry their people. Not one. I talk to my Indian homeboys. Well, mama want me to marry somebody Indian. I talk about my. I talked to my India. My Jewish homeboys gotta find a good Jewish girl. Talk all over. I talk all the time. I see it. The only difference with those. Excuse me. The difference with those places is you better not bring a home. You could go get somebody white. Even some of my African people. You can go get somebody white, but you better not come in there with dairy or Jalen, leave that nigga home. We didn't come over here for that dumb ass shit. Like so. So you know, or you know, if you do come in, he better have that hundred million dollar contract that we're talking about. All of this to say that, like I hear what you're saying, but it seems like a very well thought out and articulated double standard, what I'm saying. Yeah.
- [103:20]
B
No, because you're assuming that that's what I think. I gave three exceptions where I feel like this is okay for somebody to talk about it in that way.
- [103:27]
A
Right?
- [103:28]
B
I didn't. I see a successful black man with a white woman that I'm automatically going to start talking about them like Dr. Umar. I didn't say that. I said I have a problem in these three ways. If that's all you date, if you got to put down black women to lift up who the other you chose, I got a problem. I'm going to talk about that every time.
- [103:49]
A
What if you have. What if that's all you Date. Like why? Like why is that a problem for you? I'm not saying that it's not a problem for me. I'm just. Just saying. Hold on, wait.
- [103:56]
B
Is it a refusal today? Then I have to unpack. I'd have to ask the question, why do you refuse to date women that look like your mother?
- [104:03]
A
Well, okay, cool. Like, I get all of that. I understand all of that. I get and understand all of that. And I think that what you're saying is fair, but what I'm also saying is that that's just not how we do it.
- [104:20]
B
But you accused me of saying what I'm saying is a double standard, as if that is what I put towards black men who date outside of race. And that's not true. I'm only going to do it for those three reasons. Right, right. Like, I'm willing to give. I'm. I will assume.
- [104:37]
A
What's your favorite black interracial relationship? Black man, white woman, who you with? Tell me.
- [104:42]
B
I don't know.
- [104:44]
A
Is there? Is there? So you see that? And you, I mean, first of all, do you have a problem overall in any way? You. You're saying that you don't, but is it. Do you even remark?
- [104:54]
B
I'll tell you what I don't like to see. This picture was circulating. I think it's an old picture, but I saw it again over the holidays. What I don't like is when or when I'm like, I'll be very honest. When I. There was the picture of the Philadelphia Eagles wives.
- [105:13]
A
And I think it was the Pacers wives too.
- [105:15]
B
This is the. And this. I think it's an old picture, but I saw it recently again and there are about 20 wives. One is black.
- [105:23]
A
Okay.
- [105:23]
B
And they show them with their husbands. They're all black.
- [105:27]
A
Okay.
- [105:28]
B
Of course I'm gonna be like, why? Why does this happen? I think that is fair for me to ask. What I will not do is become Dr. Umar. But I will say, hmm, why? Just like when we brought Justin Sylvester on and we said we had the conversation of seeing successful black gay men with white. And that was a conversation that we wanted to unpack because it was a trend that you said that you were seeing. We started naming people and so we brought somebody from the community to talk about it. I think it's fair to say, why does this happen? Why is this happening? But what I'm not, I won't, I will not jump to say, oh, they must be self hating now. If you tell me, if you tell me, like I said, I've brought this up on the podcast before. I would have argument. I would talk to Texas football players, and some of them, not all of them, but a few of them would have conversations with me. And they would say things like, I don't date black women. And I would say, why? And they would give me the excuses. I've been treated bad. They have an attitude. They're too difficult, all these things. And then they would say something like, well, you would be different. And I would be so offended. Like, what are you saying? What does that mean?
- [106:33]
E
Why?
- [106:33]
B
Or if. Take me out of the equation. Why is that? Why is that? Okay, okay, I'm going to ask those questions. I'm going to have an issue that you are categorizing all black women as a certain way. And that. That's an. And that. That. And even the things that you're saying is a negative to where you no longer. You put them in a box and everybody else is better. I'm gonna have a problem with that every time.
- [106:55]
A
Do you know what the. The most interesting thing with the black gay interracial dating conversation we had was? You know what the most interesting thing was? What? There was a rationale. There wasn't just, hey, you know what?
- [107:13]
B
There was.
- [107:14]
A
There was a rationale of trauma. Of trauma. There was a reason, and that's profound. And so when I talked to a lot of people, because I didn't just have that conversation with Justin Sylvester, who is a fantastic guy, I didn't just have that conversation with him. I had the conversation with a lot of black gay brothers who reached out, some of them to support what Justin was saying thing, others to downright blow that up like dynamite.
- [107:44]
B
There's a lot of criticism like.
- [107:46]
A
Like blow that up like dynamite. But from the brothers that I heard from that had white mates, there was a rationale. It wasn't something that wasn't formed concretely in their mind. And everyone that feels the way that you say that they. Those guys at Texas. Texas feel they all have a rationale. What ends up being litigated is the rationale itself, not whether or not it's okay to have a rationale about an entire segment of the population. What ends up getting talked about is whether or not that rationale has merit. Because I also know a lot of black women, women that have, after a time of dating black men for a while, have said, I'm not doing this anymore. I'm not finding what I need in black men, and I'm going to stop not giving white men a try. Get out there get some, get with some white guys.
- [108:50]
B
Yeah. Expand like.
- [108:51]
E
Yeah.
- [108:52]
B
They want to step out. They. I know, I know a lot of black women and I used to be like this too. I guess I'll probably come back is where I just felt like nobody could really understand me like a black man could. That really was. I like deeply believed that. And then when I became 30, I was just kind of like, am I. I just had a conversation with myself. Am I cutting myself off to other people? Because I have this belief that I'm holding true to. And I said, I'm gonna throw away this list that I have and I'm just gonna see who I vibe with. And that really became a thing. And I. And I do encourage people to do that because I think dating a diverse group of people is fine. But I don't agree with self hate. I don't agree with stereotyping when it comes to dating to where you shun or put down a certain race in order to lift up another people that nobody's a monolith. Whatever race you are, you gonna find difficult. Difficult. White, Indian, Asian, black, whatever it may be, Whatever. Everybody's gonna be difficult. Everybody's gonna do you wrong. It's not particular to just one set of people, which is why I think it's unfair to do that.
- [110:03]
A
So let me be more specific about what I just said, cuz I think that you're right. You saying that you're gonna give everybody a try is fine, right? Mm. Now you're saying that you're gonna give everybody a try because there's some specific issue with black men that is exactly the same thing as identifying what you feel like is a specific issue with black women and then saying, I'm over.
- [110:28]
B
Here, but you know, that's not what I said.
- [110:30]
A
I get it. I'm just saying that, that it's just that you got there sooner. Black women have more patience for black men than maybe your elite athlete does. Because your elite athlete maybe is around a different segment of women. What I'm saying is all of this stuff gets complicated and put on these different hierarchies. If in fact it is a conversation at all. If there is an ethical way to date interracially, we're always going to decide what that is. We're always going to debate what that is. If there's an ethical way to do it, we're always going to debate it. And what's ethical for somebody is going to. To be non ethical for someone else. But if we just be like, we don't Give a. About this. No, more like if. If we were to say, I'm not necessarily. I'll do whatever I want. If we were just to say that this is not that big of an issue. Because if it's. What you're talking about is not even interracial dating. You're talking about having a poor opinion of black women.
- [111:31]
B
And that's why I don't think that you can. I don't. I just don't think, sadly, we'll ever get to that place. Because there are people. People who date for the three reasons that I just said are the exception to a Dr. Umar.
- [111:45]
A
But what I'm saying is, to your point, if you. If you have a problem with. And by the way, I don't know this. I would love to have this conversation deeper. Deeper. If you have an issue with the way men have treated you, that's one thing. If you've identified a specific contagion that exists in black men, then that deserves some type of exploration.
- [112:13]
B
Yeah, that's very problematic.
- [112:15]
A
That deserves. I hear that all the time.
- [112:18]
B
I know you do, and I think it's problematic. I have girlfriends who will be like, I'm not dating black men anymore. And I get on them. Stop doing that. Because you would hate if somebody did that to you. I've never done that. I. I so think that that's toxic. And I don't agree with that. And I believe that it paints black men in a very negative way. And they are not all the same by any means. I get on the women who say that.
- [112:42]
A
But just in closing, I'm willing to try. White men now is in that neighborhood. It's not the same house, but that's not the block.
- [112:51]
B
Did you not hear what I said?
- [112:52]
A
I heard it is in that neighborhood. You do? I mean, y'. All. Do y' all have the same card.
- [112:57]
B
Was that I only dated this because I felt like that's who only could understand me fully to the level of, like, the. Relate to a relationship of marriage. And then I asked myself, am I cutting myself off?
- [113:10]
A
Why not ask yourself that? I guess is the question. Cause these niggas wasn't shit.
- [113:14]
B
No.
- [113:15]
A
Or did you not ask yourself that? Did not. Did you just say.
- [113:17]
B
Because when people would be like, what's your type? I would be like, why am I only saying this? Like I really, truly say it in the first.
- [113:24]
A
First place?
- [113:27]
B
I mean, I guess the pool was small.
- [113:29]
A
Okay.
- [113:29]
B
And I just was like, am I.
- [113:31]
A
If the pool was small and them niggas can't swim anyway?
- [113:33]
B
Well, I just was like, it's not like I wasn't getting approached by Right to the bottom. No, no, no. It wasn't like I wasn't getting approached. Oh, black people can't swim.
- [113:39]
A
The muscles are too dense.
- [113:41]
B
It was. It was like I wasn't getting. I was getting approached by people that weren't black. And it was immediate. No for me.
- [113:47]
A
Yeah.
- [113:47]
B
And I was like, why am I doing that? And it's like, oh, I'm kind of be like, y'.
- [113:51]
A
All.
- [113:51]
B
Y' all don't get me. You. You can't. You can't possibly understand me. That was truly my thing. And I'm back now.
- [113:58]
A
You back now you're back home, whatever.
- [114:01]
B
But I should. But I being a hypocrite, I obviously shouldn't do that. I should be like, I had a really fucked up relationship, so I don't want none of them anymore. I shouldn't do that.
- [114:08]
A
So. Oh, so you.
- [114:09]
B
I am doing that.
- [114:09]
A
You're off the White House. And this is my deal.
- [114:12]
B
I'm off the white.
- [114:14]
A
Right. This is my deal, once again, is the collectivization of all of this stuff. And that, to me, is something that is at least worth a conversation. I looked at Venus Williams marrying the guy, and, man, if that dude would have been. If he would have been black, I actually would have been surprised.
- [114:40]
B
Why? I really don't know her dating history. I don't either.
- [114:44]
A
But if he would have been black, I actually would have been, oh, shit, look at that. But I'm. But when I saw it, I wasn't tripping when I see.
- [114:51]
B
I know you weren't.
- [114:52]
A
All of this stuff is funny to me. I never. I know. It's all very funny to me. It's like, funny because you don't care.
- [114:58]
B
And you're right. That's how it should be. You sh. You should not care. You care if a black woman is putting a black man down in order to do it. You do care about that.
- [115:07]
A
You do.
- [115:07]
B
Just like I care when it's. You do.
- [115:10]
A
I'm not gonna say I don't care.
- [115:11]
B
When you hear a sister be like, I do care about that.
- [115:14]
A
But what I'm saying. I'm not gonna say I don't care when I see that. Okay? So when I see all the brothers and it's no white women there, it's no black women there, what I'm really interested in, once again, is the why.
- [115:28]
B
Me too. That's exactly what I said. Me too.
- [115:31]
A
You gotta talk to Umar about this, man.
- [115:33]
B
No, we don't because he is irrational. The fact that he said that they want to procreate babies. Like Venus doesn't even have a baby. Like, I just. It's just so. So he's irrational. What I'd love to do is talk to those Philadelphia Eagle players. Can we have an. Can we do our own uncomfortable conversation where it's us or a Jubilee? Us versus 20. 20. 20 guys. 20, 20 people who only date 20 black people. Men and women who only date. Who only date that honestly. This should be a Jubilee. 20 black men and women who.
- [116:08]
A
This is your jubilee. Nick will do this.
- [116:10]
B
Who refuse.
- [116:12]
A
Oh, this is. Oh, this is a great jubilee, Rachel. This is a great jubilee for you, but I think this is you and Nick. Nick.
- [116:18]
B
Then it should be. If it's just me, then it should be 20 men. If it's just you, it should be 20 women. If it's both of us, it should be a mix. I would 100% sit in that chair.
- [116:26]
A
And say, higher learning jubilee. We could do that.
- [116:27]
B
And I'll think of my three topics.
- [116:29]
A
Like, this is a higher learning jubilee we can do.
- [116:31]
B
I already wrote them down.
- [116:32]
A
This higher learning. You got your shit. This is a good jubilee for you. This is your jubilee. This is your jubilee. We know Nick. Nick is the man. Get with Nick. Do this jubilee now. People gonna open you the up because you were. You were, you know, because of Brian.
- [116:47]
B
No, no, no. People. Anytime I talk, it's like it. It's so. Again, it's a simple minded thing. Dr. Umar. If we got on here, that's what he would bring up. Oh, you didn't sign a prenup. Oh, he took this money from you. Like I. I feel. I feel like I'm doing just fine. He took it because he could. Because I made it. Oh, and I will continue to make money. Like, yeah, like he. I'm giving him a lot. We already know how this goes. But of course, I'm.
- [117:10]
E
You.
- [117:10]
B
I'm. I'm ready for. Oh, you only date white men. Which again, it is so fair for somebody to have known me in the public. And they saw me on the Bachelor where the Bachelor was white. They saw me on the Bachelorette and I chose somebody who wasn't black. It is so fair for somebody to say, why do you only date white men? And then I would be like, I and this is who I've dated. Or that's. I understand why you would say that because that's all you've seen. But let me give you the other side of it. I wouldn't even be mad if somebody asked me why I get mad when somebody accuses me without knowing anything else, I would be ready for all of that, too. They'd probably be like, why is Rachel do this? She was with the white man. Why is she the one? Why is she the one to do it?
- [117:50]
A
We stayed on this way too long, but that was interesting to me.
- [117:53]
B
And we came to a good conclusion that Jubilee would be great.
- [117:56]
A
That's your Jubilee. That's your Jubilee. That's great. That's a great idea. And that one gonna go crazy. Can we talk about a new topic? Can we talk about the Diddy documentary?
- [118:10]
B
Oh, yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [118:12]
A
Adani, can you play the. I don't know if there's much dialogue to it, but can you play the clip of. L. Let me. Got it going on over there at Zeus Lemmy living his best life, by the way. He is any.
- [118:28]
B
And like, are there some issues going on over there?
- [118:31]
A
What's the issues? I don't know.
- [118:32]
B
I thought there was like lawsuits or something.
- [118:34]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I think some of the vine guys from back in the day, the storm power, a couple other people, I guess when Zeus first started, they were like a part of Zeus. Zeus. And they say, yeah, we talked about the Zeus stuff. I don't know how much on the. Where that's gone or whatever. Who's been compensated, who hasn't been compensated. But Zeus is his own thing now. Let me see the figurehead of Zeus. And they have documentary coming out. Documentary is on Justin and it's Justin and Christian. Christian Combs, who obviously. Justin and Christian comes. Have obviously been going through it since Diddy's had all of his legal problems and his, his, his cultural problems. It's not just legal, it's sociocultural. And they're doing the documentary on them and what they've been going through. And the trailer was released.
- [119:26]
B
Children arriving in court for day one of their father's sex trafficking child in New York. Hands gripped in solidarity. Do you still believe your dad's innocent? How did you feel hearing that testimony?
- [119:38]
A
Do you apologize, guys, on behalf of your father?
- [119:40]
B
Do you believe your father. Do you still got four years? Your daddy got four years for abusing women.
- [119:50]
A
That's wrong. He should get more fight this to the end of not afraid of the car. Like the OJ all over again. Foreign.
- [120:09]
B
Hello, this is a prepaid collect call from Federal Correctional Institution, Fort Dix. Just what's important to add to that clip? If you're not. If you didn't watch it. They're watching a tv. They keep looking at each other, kind of making faces kind of of like the face. If I'm interpreting, it's like, that's ridiculous. Like, come on. That's not true. Like they're making faces kind of like against some of the reporting that you hear in that clip. And now we're getting this documentary 2026.
- [120:52]
A
I'll say something real quick, man. That's a. A plus tr. It's good.
- [121:03]
B
Like as in it grabs you in.
- [121:05]
A
It's good filmmaking. It's good storytelling. That's an A plus trailer. You can't. Whatever you think about this project, whatever you think about Zeus, they're learning stuff. That's an A plus trailer.
- [121:18]
B
Okay, this is a bad idea.
- [121:20]
A
Go for it.
- [121:21]
B
And I don't. I'm. I'm just gonna speak from the perspective. I'm going to try to not assume things here. The reason I feel like it's a bad idea is because I think it's a lose lose situation for the children. No matter what they say, it is going to be ripped apart because one that's their father. Right. So you're coming in with a certain bias. It's inevitable. So it's going to be hard for. I don't know why they're telling their story in this way. I mean, I can assume, right. But I will give them the space of telling it in this documentary. But they are telling it. I would imagine this is a friendly space, which is why they're agreeing to do it. The reason I say it's a lose lose is because there are victims. You know, whether you believe all some of Cassie's story. You saw the video. So there are victims. There's testimony, there's pictures, there's video. There's so much out there that, that it's going to be hard for them to tell their story and save a place for the victims. That's why I feel like it's a lose lose. I just don't know how they go about doing this without st. Keeping space for the victim, holding space for the victims. I just don't know how they do that. Because other than it, other than that, it's going to come across as defensive. It's going to come across as bias. It's going to come across as versus them trying to insensitive people, changing the narrative insensitive. Or them trying to tell a different side or maybe humanize their dad in a different. From a different perspective, tell the other side of the story in order to do that. You have to take away from the victim story. And I just don't see that this as good for them. That's why I say I think it's a bad idea. I understand why they want to do it. It's their dad. I do. But I just don't see this going well.
- [123:22]
A
If it's about Puff, it's a bad idea. If it's about them, I think it's a good idea. And let me tell you why. If it's about Puff, if he is featured too much in it at all, it has no choice but to humanize him.
- [123:41]
B
Right?
- [123:42]
A
All right. Just went and saw Marty Sports Supreme. You guys have seen the Sopranos. You guys have seen Breaking Bad, right? In all three of those different projects, what humanizes the clear villain of those shows and movies, which are Marty Hauser, Tony Soprano and Walter White. It's the fact that they are parents.
- [124:06]
B
Now.
- [124:07]
A
I'm not going to ruin Marty Supreme. If you haven't seen it, that's a sport. Spoiler. Okay, but when the that happens to him, there's something that happens in the movie, and it is the thing that is the most human about the. The character. Same thing with Tony Soprano. Oh, my God. He kills a lot of people, strangle somebody. But he sure cares about A.J. sure cares about Meadow. Oh, my God, Heisenberg, Walter White. He wants to be the blah, blah. But you know what? He's doing this because he's a guy, has a family. He's got a son. Son has disability, all of this. These are the humanizing things. So just you caring about somebody and loving someone as much as a parent loves a child is just a humanizing thing? If it is about them, I understand. I understand because I've met and been around and in close proximity with people, people whose fathers have been in jail and not just whose fathers have been incarcerated, but whose fathers had terrible reputations. Like, not reputations that would have been, you know, known from sea to shining sea. But your father killed some people. Your father abused women. Some people. The guy knew his father had killed his mom, right? And it was a lot for them not to be swept up in the reputation of who their father was. It was a lot for them. It weighed upon them. Sometimes you got the name, sometimes you got the face. And all of the sins of the father get visited on the second generation. And you've seen people sometimes end up trying to emulate it, or you've seen people trying to run from it and reject it. But when you see it up close, it is something that people want to a lot of times say, hey, that's just not me. That's not who I am. That's not. Or they want to talk to you about what they've gone through as a result of being this person's son. I'm thinking about family members. I'm thinking about people I knew around the neighborhood. I'm thinking about people whose fathers were notorious in Baton Rouge. There is a tightrope here, though. And this is what both Justin and Christian are going to open themselves up to. The insensitivity around the victims is one thing. That's one thing. But another question that's going to be asked, and if this is a good documentary, it should be asked, did you know about any of this shit?
- [126:51]
B
Well, Justin's name's appeared in stuff.
- [126:53]
A
I'm just. And that right there is a question that's not going to be fair. Puff should have to answer for all the stuff that Puff did. He should have to answer for that. But if you are going to make a documentary and that documentary is gonna be about your experience since your father has been caught up. Up in all of this, there are going to be some people who are going to say that documentary should be about your experience in all of this. Now, for me, when you talked about it's a bad idea dealing with people who are relatively young. I think Justin's in his 30s. His early 30s, maybe.
- [127:34]
B
Is he that. I don't even know if he's.
- [127:36]
A
That It's Justin combs in his 30s. He might be in his. I think he's like the 28, 29 you gotta be, because we was covering them during 31. He's 31, so he's in his early 30s. Christian's a little bit younger. Quincy's even older. Then they got the. The two twins that are later on. They got a lot of life to live with this hanging over their head. They got a lot of life to live with all of this stuff. So at some point, either when the smoke cleared or when the smoke got a little bit thin, they were going to come out and say, this is kind of what my life is like now that this has been happening. And that is delicate. That's a delicate line to walk. Justin's in that Netflix documentary just in the background.
- [128:20]
B
Yeah, right.
- [128:21]
A
You know what I'm saying? So there. If you are trying to answer questions here, you got to be pretty direct. But you also have to be careful that this doesn't lend itself to people asking. Asking more questions.
- [128:35]
B
Of course, it's Going to.
- [128:36]
A
Well, it depends on how they go about it. It depends on what's said in the documentary. It depends on how they roll this out. It depends on whether or not it is explicitly said, I wasn't here for that, I wasn't around for that, or if, in fact, there's any actual evidence in here. Like, people said I was here for this type of situation. I legitimately wasn't there. Here's where I was. People said I was around this. That's literally not true. Look at where I actually was. Because there are some things specifically, I think a violent situation that happened inside of a studio. Remember, this situation is to where people allege that it was Puff and his son. Y' all, check that out for me. But people alleged that it was Puff and Justin that was there. People are gonna have. People gonna ask questions for Justin about stuff that we covered at TMZ when Puff ended up getting super angry and maybe even violent at his. At his coaches at ucla, la, like, allegedly picked up a weight and all of that kind of shit like that. And, you know, if that's around the same time, it's like, what's going on with Cassie and all of that. Did your dad have an anger problem? What do you know about this? There's a lot of questions that could come from this as well. So you have to be very delicate in what you're answering, what you're saying about yourself, and also what you're saying about your father.
- [129:49]
B
Yeah, I would have rather some more time went through. I'm curious as if Quincy is involved with this, the oldest, and if he is not, I'd be really curious as to why not. But from the. The trailer, and that could just be to draw us in. You already said you thought it was a good trailer. From the trailer, it does look like Diddy is centered. And from.
- [130:11]
A
Oh, you can't say he's centered. Huh? He calls at the very end of it.
- [130:14]
B
Well, you said you hope that it's not.
- [130:16]
A
Well, I'm saying. Well, him calling.
- [130:19]
B
You said you hope it's not about him. It feels like. It doesn't feel like it's just them because even the faces that they're making at hearing certain things that's being reported on him in the clip, it seems like they're telling another side of it rather than kind of seeing.
- [130:35]
A
I don't know, it just feels like that's clean. Their father's reputation.
- [130:39]
B
It does feel like that. It's just. It's a really risky move. And I'm just Curious as to how it's gonna lay out. I'll use your Zeus membership to watch. Watch it.
- [130:49]
A
I don't have it no more. Oh, you know what? Speaking of Zeus, we move on. Hey, I know that y' all do baddies. I know that y' all do Jocelyn's Cabaret. I do all of these shows where the ladies is fighting. I want to see one lady on this. Now you gotta find her. Okay. There's a lady from a Russian reality show. It's called. Called Pat Z. Pat Zonki. Okay? Her name is Anastasia Petrova. Put her on this. Donnie, run the clip. I want to see her on the show. Cuz y' all have a lot of people. Have you seen the clip?
- [131:31]
B
I have.
- [131:32]
A
She going crazy. Y' all have a lot of people on the show and some of these people can't fight and it's just a lot of scrapping and it don't seem like there's no stakes. I saw her getting bit.
- [131:41]
C
Is he.
- [131:42]
A
She is a Russian baddie, but she got technique.
- [131:46]
B
I want to see says Pat Zonski means tomboy.
- [131:49]
A
Okay, cool. Was she a tomboy? She is not a tomboy. She a tom. Man. That's a full grown. She putting work in. Look at this. Look at some of these are crushing, unconscious, making blows. I want to see her up against some of the people that I've seen on these shows because I see all of this fighting. Give her a shot at the of top title. If Zeus is for real, Natalie, Lemmy, all of them put her on this. Or do a whole one where it's people that know how to fight. I want to see this as the minute I saw this, I'm like, look at her get busy. But if they was going to do it, if they was going to put her on the show, I would only want her to be on the show.
- [132:28]
B
With other white people.
- [132:29]
A
Other white people.
- [132:30]
B
Yeah. You can't have her. You can't have her spin kicking black.
- [132:33]
A
People in the face, you know, but you couldn't. I don't want that to happen. It could be funny. Rach. Look. Look at her. Look at this.
- [132:44]
B
I'll show you my. Look at the violence.
- [132:46]
A
Look at the. Look this poor lady. Boom. Sidekick.
- [132:49]
B
But like, what is. It's a dating show.
- [132:51]
A
I don't know what it is. She puts on a tiara. She puts on a. Oh, my. That's. Look at this one. Look at this one. Bang.
- [133:02]
B
This is awful.
- [133:03]
A
Look all. Oh, bro.
- [133:07]
B
This is so bad.
- [133:08]
A
Why? This is bad. But I want to see her on Zeus. Zeus, reach out to me.
- [133:13]
B
That shows you what you think of Zeus.
- [133:14]
A
I want to see her on Zeus, man. She was getting big.
- [133:18]
B
Okay, so the show is a reality show that aims to reform tough women. That's. That's the premise of the show. It's a reality show that aims to reform tough women.
- [133:30]
A
Donnie running again. Again. Look, this is what I'm talking about. Look at this, look at this. Look at the violence in these blows. She throws something. Side kick. Boom. Bam.
- [133:40]
B
It's basically bad girls club. Boom.
- [133:42]
A
Look at this. Boom. Charm school. Look at this. She's kicking sidekick. And by the way, nobody's in her weight class in any of this. Just to let you know.
- [133:49]
C
Oh.
- [133:50]
A
That she's unconscious. Watch this. Don't touch my foot. Boom. Like run the talk. And by the way, way, she getting busy. Nobody's doing. I don't see one person that has.
- [134:02]
B
Well, there goes a woman trying to.
- [134:03]
A
Stop her, trying to pull her off. But even that's dangerous. This is what I want to see. Put some ringers on that.
- [134:09]
B
It's to transform rebellious women with violent exhibit A or self destructive habits through therapy. Social. I can't get the rest of it. This is so bad.
- [134:23]
A
That kick.
- [134:25]
B
There it is. The goal is to reform them into more disciplined, socially aware individuals. I would argue that they were failing. This woman is an MMA trained contestant.
- [134:35]
A
Right.
- [134:36]
B
Shocked viewers by physically confronting and intimidating multiple castmates. Her aggression blurred the line between reality TV drama and real combat, leaving audiences divided.
- [134:48]
A
Yo.
- [134:48]
B
Since the show, she has reinvented herself as a lifestyle influencer, amassing over 600,000 followers while leaving her violent Persona behind.
- [134:59]
A
Hell nah. Fuck all that. Get her. Let me reach out, man. Natalie, reach out.
- [135:04]
B
She's reformed.
- [135:06]
A
Put her on there. This could be called, you know what?
- [135:09]
B
MMA fighters crazy.
- [135:11]
A
Hey, you know what the name of the reality show could be?
- [135:14]
B
What?
- [135:19]
A
White Wives Matter.
- [135:23]
B
Man.
- [135:23]
A
That's the name of the show. It's a bunch of white women who want to be somebody's wife. We do all the things. So we take a black man, he's looking interracial.
- [135:36]
B
Okay, okay.
- [135:38]
A
But he can only choose between the most savage white women that we have of the available. I'm talking about kick punchers, MMA stars, you know, I'm talking about all of the most, you know, the most savage white ladies. Like women from the Real Housewives of Salt Lake. Geez. Right? So we have the most savage white women. We have. We go pluck them out of places. We go to Florida, all over the place. Miller, California, which People don't even know is tough. It's tough down there. Go get them. White wives matter. He has one woman. He has to choose. But they gotta. They gotta get into combat.
- [136:19]
B
They have to fight.
- [136:20]
A
They have to get into combat. It's one of these.
- [136:23]
B
The last woman standing wins.
- [136:24]
A
Basically. The last woman with one teeth.
- [136:28]
B
Tooth.
- [136:28]
A
That hasn't Think. Thank you. That hasn't been concussed. She gets it. But I want her on the show. I want her to fight for. For a. Like I said, Darius A. Jalen.
- [136:41]
B
Why are they fighting for a black man?
- [136:42]
A
Because that's what we want. That's what we want.
- [136:46]
B
So the title is White Lives Matter with a black man standing in front of that.
- [136:52]
A
Yeah. We got to get the right black man too. Maybe it's Ray J.
- [136:57]
B
Let's go.
- [136:58]
A
Maybe it's right. Maybe you never know.
- [137:00]
B
Let's go.
- [137:00]
A
It could be right. Like, you never know. You get somebody out there.
- [137:03]
B
Actually, I would like that.
- [137:05]
A
I'm bringing the combat into it is what I want to see. Because I see a lot of people talking about all of this stuff.
- [137:11]
B
But at the end, she gotta fight Ray J. Nah. Yeah. At the end. Yeah.
- [137:17]
A
We can't. We can't have a man against a woman. Although, I don't know. That chick might beat the.
- [137:21]
B
Exactly.
- [137:22]
A
She might. Ray J up the goal. You want to see Ray J get hurt? You don't like him anymore.
- [137:26]
B
Anymore. Which and a half.
- [137:29]
A
That's crazy. Disrespect our stars like that. All right, we have to do three quick moments real quick. My three moments from the podcast. Very quickly. Three moments this year that I really loved. The Gavin Newsom interview was great. Okay.
- [137:42]
B
Yes.
- [137:42]
A
That's one of mine. The Nana prank.
- [137:45]
B
Go ahead.
- [137:45]
A
She's fantastic. That's my second moment of 2025. And the third one was the interview with Jason Wilson, which I feel like is one.
- [137:52]
B
Oh, it's beautiful.
- [137:53]
A
We've ever had before. Those are my three moments from this year that I really loved. We appreciate you guys for being with us throughout this entire year.
- [137:59]
B
Wow. So I didn't realize it was three big moments from the podcast. I just thought it was three big moments of 2025, but I love those. Totally agree with you. Mine would have been big moments from 2025. Jimmy Kimmel getting let go of a shot. I feel you whole trickle down effect. Both sides. People were coming together from both sides with that. The Coldplay concert scandal.
- [138:21]
A
Oh, shit. Did y'. All. You see her? She came back.
- [138:23]
B
Yeah, she came back. She came back. I'M I mean, people could not stop talking about it. It's like every week something else was happening. And then I'm gonna say sinners just because Sinners needs to be on everybody's list for multiple reasons. And we had our own moment with Sinners. We had two people here in front and behind the camera on the show. I really enjoy both of those interviews. I enjoy what Sinners meant to the culture. And if it isn't gonna make anybody else's list, it should definitely be making ours.
- [138:49]
A
Yeah. It's a fantastic one.
- [138:51]
B
Yeah.
- [138:51]
A
Fantastic movie. I will say I had a conversation with Michael Herriot. I no longer care whether or not Sinners is on anybody's year end list. I don't care. I enjoyed Sinners. Sinners remind me of my home. Sinners was expertly directed, fantastically crafted, wonderfully acted. And that is enough for me. The fact that I loved it and we loved it is enough for me.
- [139:14]
B
And people loved it. It was a success.
- [139:17]
A
A massive.
- [139:18]
B
Yeah, yeah.
- [139:19]
A
Crazy, amazing success. You got three predictions for next year. No one do. Should we do our three predictions for next year on next Monday?
- [139:26]
B
Do you have them?
- [139:27]
A
No, not really.
- [139:28]
B
Okay. Okay. Let's just do it.
- [139:29]
A
We'll do three predictions for next year on Monday. All right, we'll do all of that stuff. I just. I gotta get her on. I gotta get this woman on. More reality.
- [139:40]
B
Let's go. That's my prediction for 2023.
- [139:44]
A
Take think caps off. Do not stop learning. I'm Van Lathan jr.
- [139:46]
B
I'm Rachel and Lindsay. Happy New Year's, guys.
- [139:48]
A
Happy New Year's.