← Higher Learning with Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay
Higher Learning with Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay
Empathy, Sympathy, and Charlie Kirk. Plus, Erika Alexander and the Legacy of ‘Living Single.’
02:07:51
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- [00:02]
Van Lathan
Yo, yo, Thought wars. What is up Higher learning is on.
- [00:06]
Rachel Lindsay
Is Ivan Lathan Jr. And it's me, Rachel and Lindsay.
- [00:09]
Van Lathan
Erica Alexander coming up on the show later on. Erica Alexander is going to be on the show. I guess we fantastic interview with Erica Alexander. Love.
- [00:17]
Rachel Lindsay
Amazing.
- [00:18]
Van Lathan
She's got all kinds of stuff she's working on right now. She got a new show on NBC. She's doing a show invasion. She's coming off of American Fiction. You we talked about the fact that she has a production company that's producing all of this stuff Color Farm media and she has reliving single which is a living single re watch podcast. She's doing so much taking advantage of this career renaissance. We'll talk to her about that. We'll talk to her. A lot of stuff you guys YouTube like comment, comment, subscribe, share. Even if you're listening to this right now on audio, you're listening to it on Spotify. Stop and then go to YouTube. Subscribe. Like it. Do the whole thing. YouTube, YouTube, YouTube. Fuck it. YouTube. This episode is brought to you by Hyundai, who says you can't be the topic of conversation for all the right reasons. The Hyundai Tucson hybrid pairs bold presence with advanced technology and sleek style. It's everything you didn't know you needed in an SUV and then some. Okay, Hyundai. Visit Hyundai USA.com to learn more. This episode is brought to you by Universal Pictures. Would you sell your soul for greatness? What would you be willing to sacrifice? Find out on September 19th in the new Jordan Peele produced horror film Him Only in theaters. Starring Marlon Wayans as the greatest football player of all time and Tariq Withers as his upand coming protege. Directed by Justin Tipping and produced by Monkey Paw Productions, Never Meet yout Idols. Him hits theaters September 19th. Okay, obviously you guys know where we're gonna start the show. There is. We are still in the throes of the country and the nation's reaction to the shooting of Charlie Kirk. There's a lot of stuff that we didn't know when we recorded on Thursday that we know now. The shooter has been apprehended. I don't think. I don't think we knew that when Thursday. I don't think the shooter had been apprehended yet when we talked. No, the shooter had not been apprehended.
- [02:25]
Rachel Lindsay
No, no, no, no.
- [02:26]
Van Lathan
The shooter is 22 years old. Tyler Robinson. He is from Utah there. As much as we know about the shooter of Charlie Kirk, there are still things that are being volleyballed around.
- [02:42]
Rachel Lindsay
Very much so, particularly about him, about.
- [02:44]
Van Lathan
Him, ideology, why he did this. There seemed to be evidence or it was positioned as if there were evidence. The media has been putrid on this issue. Putrid.
- [02:58]
Rachel Lindsay
So has the FBI.
- [02:59]
Van Lathan
The FBI has been putrid.
- [03:00]
Rachel Lindsay
So is the governor of Utah.
- [03:02]
Van Lathan
The media has been putrid on this in terms of shame on the Wall Street Journal and to me and the way they went about their reporting and all of that stuff, shame on him. But the media has been putrid on this. The governor of Utah did all the Sunday shows yesterday. It's everywhere. And he was talking about what he believed that he knew about Tyler Robinson, about his worldview, about motive, as to why he would have done this, and just about Tyler Robinson himself. Did you learn anything?
- [03:36]
Rachel Lindsay
Well, you learned something. But what you have to understand is what we were learning was really based on speculation and assumptions and opinion from the governor of Utah. It was not based on any actual proof. Because the reality is, is that Tyler Robinson is not cooperating with authorities. They don't know his motive. They don't know the reasoning behind what happened. They have a suspect in custody. He will be appear in court on Tuesday. And then I think from there they're hoping that they can learn some more. But right now this is all gathering of information of talking to friends from the little social media behavior that we do know from talking to family, but nothing from the actual suspect. And so what the governor of Utah is doing is extremely dangerous because he is going off of what he thinks to be true without actually any proof or evidence.
- [04:35]
Van Lathan
He's going off of what friends or people that have been interviewed are saying.
- [04:41]
Rachel Lindsay
Right, but he's cherry picking. Right. Because there are also a number of friends, former maybe people who went to school with him, neighbors who also say that they didn't see anything like this from him. They didn't think that he was capable of doing something like this. They knew him as a quiet, intellectual person. So. And I'm not saying one's true or the other, what I'm saying is, is that when he is presenting this to the media, as he is doing his tour, he is cherry picking what it is that he is presenting to fit a particular narrative. Because let's not also forget, because we didn't get to cover this the last time we talked. This is also the man who stood in front of the media, the public, and said that he was praying for the suspect to not be one of them. He particularly said what he didn't want this person to be. And now the things that he is saying fit the narrative of what he did want the person to be. So you have to put those two together.
- [05:38]
Van Lathan
We're in a wait and see mode as it relates to Tyler Robinson. There'll be more information that comes out about Tyler Robinson. Apparently his father recognized the picture of him. He confessed to his father, and then he said he would rather kill himself than turn himself in. And a family friend contacted authorities. There haven't been that many details that have come out, but we do know that about the shooter. Cash Patel and the FBI have come under scrutiny because it looks like they completely bungled the response to this and have a clue what the fuck they were doing. And without the confession and the turning in of Tyler Robinson himself, who knows when they would have caught up to him or caught him or whatever that's going on. There's also been a cultural response to this. We have seen across sports and some in pop culture, memorials for Charlie Kirk, sports teams, memorials for Charlie Kirk, flags flying at half staff, all that type of stuff. Then there's also been really direct attack on speech following this, where some of the powers that be are compiling lists of people who might say things that are unflattering or critical of Charlie Kirk and then turning people in to their jobs or whatever. And we're seeing people specifically saying we are going to crack down on speech that criticizes or celebrates. Criticizes Charlie Kirk or it could be seen as celebrating his death.
- [07:21]
Rachel Lindsay
Yeah, I mean, I don't know what I was expecting when we did our podcast and, you know, it was released and then put certain clips on social media, I think I. I kind of thought that I had cleansed my audience after the Chris Harrison situation. And people. There was never a question after that to where I stood or who I am or even just being a part of higher learning of what it is that I represent. So I shouldn't have been shocked, I guess, at the cultural response, or whatever you want to call it, to me expressing my thoughts about the situation. But yet there was even more than when I talked about the last podcast of what people were demanding is what people were demanding. People calling me. Well, they were calling me out of my name before, but calling me, saying that I wasn't really a Christian. How dare I present myself to be saying that I wasn't being sympathetic, because we don't use the word empathetic, apparently, and we can get into that.
- [08:29]
Van Lathan
But who, What. What happened?
- [08:30]
Rachel Lindsay
Well, the clip that I posted on my social media was about empathy and Charlie Kirk's quote and about him saying that he doesn't believe in empathy. And I called it subjective empathy and even selective empathy. And you and I had a detailed conversation on that. And a of lot, a lot of people were in my comments saying, how dare you. You're part of the problem. You're cherry picking. If you're going to use his quote, use the entire quote. And I'm paraphrasing here, but the entire quote was that he didn't believe in empathy. He believed in sympathy. And I still stand by everything that I said, right? And they're like, he said he didn't believe in empathy because he said it had been politicized or something like that, but he believed in sympathy. So how dare you make him seem like he's this evil person because he didn't have empathy. I still stand by those same things. I think it's interesting when you don't want to recognize what empathy is, but you do want to recognize sympathy. Sympathy requires you feeling to feel sorry for something, something or some person and it allows you to have pity for them. That is totally different from empathy. Empathy goes to another level. It requires something deeper, something more, something more compassionate, some more understanding sympathy. Yeah, you feel sorry and you pity. But I could, of course. See, I believe he agreed in that because he said that the people who say that say things that we stand for on this podcast or, you know, who complain about certain things. He said we had victimhood, culture, and he pitied us for that. There is a difference. To have empathy goes the extra mile. It is something Christlike or Jesus Christ would do. Since, you know, Charlie Kirk said he was a Christian, that's another level. It's deeper than that. And he didn't want to have that or want to encourage people to have that so he could further his agenda and his beliefs. I think it's very important for people to remember that, yes, maybe Charlie Kirk grew up as a Christian. But when Charlie Kirk started his turning point and the agenda that he was pushing, he did not place politics and religion together. Matter of fact, he argued that they should be separate. He argued for the separation of church and state. He felt like religion had no place in politics. He did what you see several people doing now on the far right. He saw the benefit in combining the two and playing into a cult like culture. And when you put those two together and then you're able to use Christianity as, I guess, your weapon and hide behind it to further your agenda, mixing politics and religion is a very powerful force. You saw Trump do that. You see other politicians do that as well. And So I think it's important to remember he didn't always have this. He saw the benefit in doing it. And look at where we are right now, as we said last podcast, whitewashing the things that he believed in order to further their agenya, to politicize their agenda, to hide under Christianity because they were trying to push something else forward. So I got a little off in what it is that I was trying to say. But I think all that kind of plays into the response that I'm seeing people have in regards to Charlie Kirk and not allowing people to say, hey, I do condemn political violence and gun violence. I do condemn the public killing in a gruesome way. But I'm also not going to ignore that the rhetoric and the actions that someone had that were harmful to me and so many other people of marginalized groups because he was a Christian.
- [12:28]
Van Lathan
To Rachel's followers, who you seem to be in a battle with, you know.
- [12:32]
Rachel Lindsay
Yeah, I don't know why they're still there.
- [12:34]
Van Lathan
Yeah. To Rachel's followers, this is the difference between sympathy and empathy. As far as I'm concerned. Sympathy is feeling bad for someone when something bad happens to them. Empathy is not wanting something bad to happen to them. Empathy is saying, I look at your situation and I connect myself to your situation. So the way that you are feeling, nothing bad has happened, but I empathize with you as a person, so something bad happening to you would feel like something bad happening to me. So because I recognize that you're in that position, let's talk about how something bad doesn't happen to keyword here. Us. Empathy is us, okay? It's a unifying feeling of common humanism. That's what it is. So if you are saying, I sympathize with someone, but I can't empathize with them, you're saying, I feel bad for the losers. Like, not. There are two teams, and the two teams are, you know, competing. They. You lose. I feel bad for you. If there is empathy, there is one team. There's one team, the human being team. And that means what you feel, I feel. And in that creates solidarity. I hope that helps you guys, because the reality of the situation is it's a completely different thing. So I don't know why you guys are following Rachel and giving her so much grief, but. But it's a totally different thing. It's a totally different thing. The reaction to Charlie Kirk and everything is really interesting to me for a couple of reasons. An opinion columnist for the Washington Post says she was fired her Name is Karen. Karen Attia. Atia. She wrote on substack subset that she was fired. She's several cite several social media posts made in the wake of Charlie Kirk's death that express antipathy towards political violence and frustration with the lack of effort to curb gun violence. And then there was another response. I saw these guys in Huntington Beach.
- [15:00]
Rachel Lindsay
Oh, yeah? Yeah.
- [15:02]
Van Lathan
And they were walking around. What are they saying? Like white men. Like white men will fight back.
- [15:08]
Rachel Lindsay
Yeah. It was like a white is right kind of thing. I don't remember what they were saying.
- [15:11]
Van Lathan
Donnie, what were they saying? What are the guys hunting to be saying? White men will fight back.
- [15:16]
Erica Alexander
Let's hear for ourselves.
- [15:17]
Van Lathan
Let's hear what they were saying. They fight back. Who wins?
- [15:33]
Erica Alexander
Who wins? Who streets our streets?
- [15:34]
Van Lathan
Who streets our streets? White men fight back. Okay, so I want to say two things here. Number one, political assassination in America is a white phenomenon. I'm going to give you guys a list. Abraham Lincoln, James Garfield, William McKinley, Franklin Delano Roosevelt. That's attempted. John F. Kennedy, Malcolm X. Martin Luther King, Jr. Robert F. Kennedy, Harvey Milk, John Lennon, Ronald Reagan, Gianni Versace, Gabby Gifford. If you look at all of these, these are the people who create, who commit those assassinations. John Willis Booth, Charles Couteau, Leon Shagaz. That's what he said. It wasn't. Yeah, I don't remember him. Harry Archer, Giuseppe Zangara, Lee Harvey Oswald. Members of the Nation of Islam were arrested for the assassination of Malcolm X. However, there has been a lot of evidence. Guys, we know who killed Malcolm X, right? Okay. All right. James Earl Ray, Sir Hansarhan, Dan White, Mark David chapman, John Hinckley Jr. Andrew Cunanan, Jared Lee Loughner. If you guys are mad about political assassination of figures, you're not mad at black people. You're not mad at them because that's not what we do. We have not right now or ever been the people in America that execute political assassinations of figures. Even the figures with the most vile rhetoric towards black people. We didn't shoot them. We did not shoot them. And we didn't shoot them last week either when this news broke. The profile of the shooter being a young white male or a white male with some type of mental. Mental illness issue or that had been radicalized. That was the easiest money on FanDuel that you could get. You were hitting with that bet. And that's a fact. And let me tell you why that's important to say. When you talk about race massacres or racial violence in the United States, I think A lot of people think that there was a time or a point where they just went in and destroyed and massacred all of these black people. And that's. That's what they did. That is what they did. They did. That's what they did. But there was always misinformation and disinformation that went into it. Like these gentlemen who are marching up and down the street in Huntington beach or other people who are using this to crack down on people's free speech. It's misinformation and disinformation that they are going to use to do something that they always wanted to do or instinctively do, no matter what, which is terrify and terrorize black people and other marginalized groups and roll their rights back. I want to let people know this. Race massacres, okay? And I'm going to connect them to false accusations, slash disinformation and misinformation that is a part of them. Just so you guys know, there's always a story of why it has to happen. Always a story of why. 1866, Memphis. There were the Memphis Massacre. There were rumors that a black black Union soldiers were attacking whites after the Civil War. 46 black people killed, 90 wounded. 1898, Wilmington, North Carolina. Propaganda claiming black political leaders were corrupt and black men were a threat to white women. White supremacist coup. Dozens to hundreds of black residents killed. Government overthrown. 1906, Atlanta, Georgia. The newspaper printed false reports of black men raping white women. White mobs killed 25 to 40 black people, injured hundreds and destroyed businesses. 1919, AR. Lie that black sharecroppers met to form a union and were plotting to murder whites. 100 to 200 black people killed by mobs and U.S. troops. 1919, Washington, D.C. false reports of black men attacking white women. White mobs, including servicemen, rampage. Dozens of black residents killed or injured. 1919, Chicago. Racial tension sparked by rumors and false blame after a black teenager swam in a whites only beach area and was killed. 4:38 dead. 500 plus injured. A thousand black families left homeless. 21, Tulsa. You've heard of this one. A black teenager, Dick Rowland, falsely accused of assaulting a white female elevator operator. 100 to 300 black people killed. 35 blocks of Greenwood. Black Wall street destroyed. They firebombed it from the sky. Boom. 1923, Rosewood, Florida. White woman falsely accused a black man of assaulting her. They killed up a bunch of black people. What I'm telling you is the reason why it is important that the information on this is accurate and that the Culture of this is properly contextualized is because the misinformation and the disinformation will be used to do two things. Number one, it will give these guys, guys like the guys in Huntington beach who already already have the want and the need to rampage through the streets and hurt black people, a reason to do so. And they will use that reason. Another thing that will happen is because of this, there will be a power grab. A power grab by people who already wanted to sideline your speech. They already wanted to tell you what you couldn't say. They already wanted to be able to manicure your speech, and they had already been doing it. They have been manicuring your speech and trying to get you kicked out of school. If you didn't agree with what Israel is doing. They have been manicuring your speech and trying to get you kicked out of school. If you were talking about the historical conditions of black people vis a vis crt, they have been trying. They've been. They've been manicuring speech by getting rid of black professors and other people at all of these institutions that were looking into and culturally contextualizing black people's place. They'd already been manicured speech. They have been manicured speech. They've been manicuring thought. So what happened last week? And a political assassination, something that black people, black culture in this country has never been been connected to, ever. For that to be used to inspire retribution from white people, white groups, is laughable. Now. This isn't me saying, hey, man, we didn't do it. It's me telling you that we see this, we see you, we see it. Question is, what now? And that's the part of it, to be honest with you guys, I'm not quite sure about. The question is, what now? The question is, what now? The playbook is coming, the elected leaders, everyone, everybody is a part of this. What's gonna happen now is actually talking about who Charlie Kirk was, his ideas, his rhetoric and all of that stuff that's going to be revolutionary action because we cannot have it right now where someone that we had this type of fundamental, fundamental tension with. I'm not talking about disagreeing. If you say that black women, prominent black women aren't smart enough, we don't have a disagreement. That's not what that is. It's not a disagreement. It's not a. We don't disagree. I'm not fucking disagreeing with you on whether fucking Ketanji Brown, Jackson is smart. I'm not disagreeing with you on that. That's not a disagreement. We not having a disagreement. That's not what we doing. I'm telling you, you're fucking wrong is what we doing. And you were wrong last week before it happened to you, and you're fucking wrong this week now that you're gone. And that's it. Ain't no more to it. That no way around it. That's what's happening. So everybody be brave. Everybody be in solidarity and everybody being together because I'm not fucking getting lied to this time. Fuck all that. Fuck it. We gonna tell the truth and we gonna live in the truth and we gonna continue to tell the truth no matter whose fucking feelings get hurt. Because. Because you don't give a fuck about our feelings when this happens. You only care nigga gets shot carrying Skittles with a hoodie. You don't give a fuck about how we feel about that. Nigga get a knee on his neck for 8 minutes and 41 seconds. You wouldn't pardon, killer. You don't give a about that. I don't care it now. How about that? It.
- [25:18]
Rachel Lindsay
Yeah. When you talk about. It's interesting. Not interesting. I mean, everything you're saying is right. And that's the. That's one of the many problems in what's happening right now in the way people are looking at Charlie Kirk. Because everybody wants to say he was just a debater. He was just a debater. Not everybody, but the people who are pro Charlie Kirk, like, he was just a debater and he opened up conversation for everybody to talk to. No, that's not what he was. It was everything that Van was just saying. That's not what he was. It was hateful, it was racist, it was misogynistic, it was xenophobic, it was homophobic. It was all these things. It wasn't just that. And not only was he not just a debater, he wasn't somebody who just challenged ideas and thought. This is a person who was fully infiltrated with the Trump administration in his inner circle and was aligning these thoughts, this agenda, this rhetoric with. With politics. The two are not separate. He was not somebody just on the Internet talking. He was infiltrated into the government. We were actually seeing the things that he wanted placed into policy. Those thoughts, those beliefs were in Paul, are in policy and are continuing to go further and continue to move further. And what you were saying about the questions like, where do we go from here and stuff, it's really interesting for the people who are just saying he was a good person and he was a Christian, you were doing exactly what biblically, you're not supposed to. You are idolizing a person instead of wondering how we got here. If you really have this love for Charlie Kirk, you should be outraged that something like this can happen in our country. That's where your anger should be directed. Not at a person who feels, doesn't feel the same way about Charlie Kirk as you. You should be outraged that your beloved person was able to be killed in this country in this way. And instead of wondering how we got here and looking at the problem with social media and how it's not really social, instead of looking at mental health issues, instead of looking at gun violence in this country, instead of looking at political violence in this country, instead of even looking at the male loneliness epidemic, you're not looking at those things. You're, you're, you're going after particular, certain people who don't love him in the way that you did. And this is also what our government should be addressing. If the government loved Charlie Kirk in the way that they are portraying themselves to be, that's what they should be focused on. They should be focused on policy that combats all the things that I just named. But instead, what are they doing? They are enjoying this because it is going to further, further divide this country and further embolden people to get the things that they want to happen in this society. JD Vance should be working on policy, not hosting Charlie Kirk show today. There should be. Not be. People should be debating whether or not there should be a statue of Charlie Kirk put up like Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. We shouldn't be looking at what teams had a moment of silence and whatnot. There shouldn't be a hit list of people using free spree, free speech to voice their. The, the, the way that they felt about Charlie Kirk and the things that he did that were problematic to them as beings in this society. That's not what we should be doing. And instead it is. So if you really cared about Charlie Kirk and his message of Christianity, you would be concerned about how your beloved person was able to be killed in a public way in this country.
- [29:02]
Van Lathan
I'm not going to celebrate the death of Charlie Kirk. And I'll tell you why I'm not going to celebrate it.
- [29:08]
Rachel Lindsay
No, we're not doing that.
- [29:09]
Van Lathan
Tell you why I'm not going to celebrate it. I want to tell you guys something real quick. Talk to you guys. I started using the N word when we got to talk about.
- [29:17]
Rachel Lindsay
You've already used it.
- [29:19]
Van Lathan
Alexander later on. Wow. I shouldn't do that. She already talked to us. I'll tell you guys why I'm not going to celebrate the death of Charlie Kirk. Two reasons. One, I told you guys already, you guys can live with it or not. Image was terrible. Image was terrible. I saw it and I was, oh, my God, that's terrible. Image was terrible. This who I am, human person. Not celebrating that. Image was terrible. I'll tell you something else. There's another reason why, more direct reason why we've seen terrible things happen when there's like a terrorist attack or something like that. But then there's something that happens right after the terrorist attack. Normally, is the group responsible for it? Does what, Donnie?
- [30:11]
Donnie
Make an announcement.
- [30:12]
Van Lathan
They take responsibility for it. Why? People might be asking, why does the group take responsibility for it? Lots of different reasons. One reason is because whatever conversation that they hope to start with the terrorist attack, they want to know who's starting that conversation. Two is that there are many terrorist organizations and they want people to know who did it because they might think somebody else did. Three, for politics, for branding, all of that stuff. Also, down the line, there is wanting to make sure that people understand who did it because of the ramifications of the terrorist attack, where it's going to go, where the resources are going to go in retaliation from whatever group is going to retaliate. Why am I talking about this? I'm talking about this because I personally think celebrating his death is taking energetic responsibility for something that we don't do and didn't have anything to do with. I'm not taking any energetic responsibility for that. I didn't do that. Culturally, we didn't do that. We don't really do that. So I'm not taking responsibility for that. I'm not. I'm not taking responsibility for it. They have nothing to do with it. Okay? That's a fact. That's true. However, in the wake of all the deaths that we just talked about, whomever it is, Mike Brown, Trayvon Martin, Sandra Bland, George Floyd, do you know what happened? There was an investigation into the lives of these human beings that were murdered by the state, were murdered by people that were going crazy with their privilege and supremacy. And these people went through these people's lives and tried to tell us every wrong thing that they did. There's a reason why they did that. They did it because what they were trying to say is, no big deal. No big deal. We're better off. This guy is the guy that might have robbed you. This is the person that might have grown up to Become something terrible. Look at the mistake that they made, that cost in their lives. I'm not even saying that in this. What I'm saying is I am going to be honest and will continue to be honest about things that this gentleman said. Non negotiable. I'm going to be honest about them and I'm going to be honest about the fact that people say things like this all the time. And we are forced to contend with these things as just political ideas. It's just a political idea that if your pilot is black, your plane might crash. It's just a political idea. It's not an idea that actually reinforces the religion of white male orthodoxy in this country, which is the operating system of American supremacy. It's not actually an idea that means, hey, you know what? If a black person is doing anything anywhere, that means you're less safe. If a black person is exalted or elected, that means that there's dysfunction. It's not saying that the only people that are capable of running this country are the straight white males that begrudgingly took your chains off. I'm not doing it. I'm too old. I've lost too many. It's not happening. So we gonna talk like people that have empathy, like people that care about the human condition. But we are not going to be willfully dumb for the sake of your fucking society. We're not. We're not going to pretend like we don't know. We're not doing that here. And I hope to God that wherever you are, however you are listening, that you don't do it either. But I'm telling you, they will come for you. They've always wanted to control what you've said. They've always wanted to monitor and press buttons to get you to do what they wanted you to do. The algorithm is part of that. We're not even talking about that. We're not even talking about the fact that the algorithm that has now infected our brains is making us look at this as actually not a person that was killed, but a meme.
- [35:03]
Rachel Lindsay
So I'm saying shout out to, like.
- [35:05]
Van Lathan
Shout out to Saga and Crystal on Breaking points. I love Breaking Points, by the way, who just talked about the fact that we're memeing each other. We're memed up. So now we have to. All of that. All of that. But the base understanding that I'm trying to get to people is now, once again, the truth in this situation will become a revolutionary act. You do not have to like what Charlie Kirk said to Be a good person. Say again. You do not have to like what Charlie Kirk said to be a good person. Say again. You do not have to like or condone what Charlie Kirk said when he was alive to be a good person. That's it. But might cost you your job. And the fact that it can is the conversation that we're having. The fact that it can is what we're talking about. The fact that that could that telling the truth about someone who had said these types of things that that could cost you your job is why we feel the way that we feel. That's the reason why. Because we know, man. We know. The most frustrating thing is y' all think we don't know. We know. We know. We know. You ain't fool nobody. We know. Now, where we go from here, I don't know. We'll learn more about the shooter. We'll learn more about the circumstances surrounding this. But when I tell you right now is the Misinformation and Disinformation campaign is beginning, and it is forming around people who never thought you had a place in this society in the first place. They're firming it up and they're getting to it. And for anyone else that feels like they're in a position or where, you know, they've been watched or looked at, whatever you got placed with me, I'm with you. I'm fucking with you. I have empathy with you for you. I have empathy for anyone who's horrified by what they saw. I have empathy for people that want to be able to say, hey, that was wrong, and don't feel like they could say that today. Group of people, I'm with all of y', all, but when we talk and have these conversations, we gonna have them in truth, because I'm too old for the fucking lies. We gonna take a break. This episode is brought to you by Universal Pictures. Would you sell your soul for greatness? What would you be willing to sacrifice this September? Experience the horror event of the season. Him, the new Jordan Peele produced horror film. It stars Marlon Wayans in the role of a lifetime as Isaiah White, the greatest football player of all time, AKA the goat. Tyreek Withers plays Cameron Cade, a rising star quarterback who Isiah takes on as his protege. As Cam's training accelerates, Isiah's charisma shifts into something darker, sending Cam down a disorienting rabbit hole that may cost him more than he ever bargained for. Directed by Justin Tipping and produced by Monkeypaw Productions, Never Meet yout Idols. HIM hits theaters September 19th.
- [38:23]
Rachel Lindsay
Used to describe an individual whose spirit is unyielding, unconstrained. One who navigates life on their own terms, effortlessly. They do not always show up up on time, but when they arrive, you notice an individual confident in their contradictions. They know the rules, but behave as if they do not exist. New Teen the new fragrance by Miu.
- [38:47]
Van Lathan
Miu Defined by you Apology Rating Time Rachel's Time. Brian Kill me from Fox. If you guys ever watch Fox and Friends, it is a show where they are on Fox and they are friends of some sort. They're friendly to each other, but not necessarily to others. Donnie, do you have the video and audio of what Brian Kilmeade from Fox and Friends said regarding homeless people? They were talking about homeless people getting help and whether or not they should have to get help. And Brian Kilmeade, he had an idea about this. He's kind of like the main guy on Fox and Friends, is he not? Would you guys say that? Is Brian Kilmeade the main guy on Fox and Friends? I guess he is. He's the guy that's been there for the longest. They got the black guy on there now. What's his name? What's the black guy on Fox and Friends? You don't know? Donnie, play what Brian Kilmeade said about the homeless on Fox and Friends, please. Billions of dollars to mental health and the homeless population. A lot of them don't want to take the programs. A lot of them don't want to get the help that is necessary. You can't give them a choice. Either you take resources that we're gonna give you and. Or you decide that you're gonna be locked up in jail. That's the way it has to be now. Or involuntary lethal injection or something. Just kill him, Brian.
- [40:06]
Rachel Lindsay
Why did it have to get to this point? Right?
- [40:08]
Van Lathan
I would say this. We're not voting for the right people in North Carolina. Wake up. All right, so two things there. Brian Kilmeade actually did the black dude a solid because the black guy was like, just throw them all in jail and had Brian kill me, not double down. It's like we probably would be talking about the other brother who said, just round the people up and toss them in jail. So he actually owes Brian Kilmeade. I feel like to me, I mean, look, I mean, it happens like he owes Brian Kilmeade because we are talking about the fact that Brian Kilmeade said something super like absurdly ridiculous and inhumane after somebody said Something just vilely inhumane. He said something inhumane, too, is all I'm saying.
- [40:55]
Rachel Lindsay
Yeah, no, he absolutely did. But you're right. I mean, Brian. What Brian said was far worse, called for killing.
- [41:06]
Van Lathan
So let's sit with him for a second before we get to the apology. Obviously, there was outrage, but I want you guys to think about something. I want you to think about a homeless person sitting somewhere on the street and authority of some sort. Just, actually, let's do this before we just start getting into all of these different things and these scenarios that people say. Let's actually play them out in our minds. Let's not just take them as words and stuff. So Brian Kilmeade basically said that there should be cops or some types of officials that roam around the streets with lethal injection pumps and vials and they see a homeless person and then they murder them. Or that the homeless people should be rounded up and all brought to a facility where they are killed. They're killed. They're human beings, and then they're killed. Think about that for a second. Think about what that looks like. And then, obviously, people got upset with Brian Kilmeade, and then he did this. In the morning, we were discussing the murder of Irina Zaruska in Sherwood, North Carolina. How to stop these kinds of attacks by homeless mentally ill assailants, including institutionalizing or jailing such people so they cannot attack again. Now, during that discussion, I wrongly said they should get lethal injections. I apologize for that extremely callous remark. I'm obviously aware that not all mentally ill homeless people act as the perpetrator did in North Carolina, and that so many homeless people deserve our empathy and compassion. That's his apology, Rach. You got it.
- [42:45]
Rachel Lindsay
I mean, I think this one is clearly a zero. Less if I actually could. I mean, Brian Kilme had a nurse on the show who got suspended from her job for questioning, I guess a doctor, about him making a comment about Charlie Kirk. And, you know, I don't know exactly what was said because it's hearsay, but allegedly he was dismissing the death of Charlie Kirk. Both were suspended. So that you have a problem with. But you can call for the death of homeless people who you clearly don't look at as people, as human beings. You see them as something that should be dismissed and disposed of and just rounded up as if they're nothing and they should be injected. But you want to get mad over what this doctor said about Charlie Kirk's words and actions. And I'm not saying, you know, people should celebrate the death of anybody. My point is the hypocrisy in it all. So I look at this apology rating and I'm like, I mean, I look at this apology and I'm like, this means absolutely nothing. Of course, he's also no stranger to making very offensive, inappropriate, crazy remarks on his show that, you know, basically look at certain, certain groups of human beings as if they're not on the level of him, as if they're not actually human beings. So this apology means nothing. And it's crazy to me also that you sat down with this nurse and had her on and basically was saying that, you know, the doctor should lose his job, but you get to keep your job. When you call for the killing of groups of people who you don't look at as human beings. You know what he lacks? Empathy.
- [44:35]
Van Lathan
Empathy. It's interesting. It's interesting. It's interesting to think about something. I think the reason why the right has, is still allowed to set the moral parameters of US societies because they've always kind of done that. They were for a long time the party, at least that talked about, you know, the moral majority, the Christian right, all of that stuff. And so they still get to tell you when you're doing bad, they get to smack you on your hand, hit you with the ruler, tell you you're subhuman, you're inhuman, you're all of that stuff. They still get to do that when they've obviously given up the moral high ground. If they ever had it, which they never did. They used to. I think it's that they used to pretend like they had it. They used to pretend like they had the moral high ground. They used to pretend like they do that. Like, for example, they made abortion a moral issue. And for a long time they were like, well, we hate abortion because we don't want the killing of innocent unborn children. And then you say, okay, well, let's say a nine year old gets raped by her uncle. And then they go, well, she's gotta have that baby. And I'm like, so we got to a point to where there was enough information we had done the scouting report till we realized that they were no longer the. They couldn't even claim to be the people that were looking at the rest of the country and morally judging them and I guess holding themselves up as the moral arbiters of America. But they still do it, and it's still effective and we still react to it. They still do it. They still are able to get people on the left to capitulate. To their idea of what moral is.
- [46:38]
Rachel Lindsay
Because they have, I guess, people on the left, their backs against the wall where they're defending, yeah, their, their own like morality, I guess, because the way the right does it is they hide behind Christianity, we've seen it on fire since the killing of Charlie Kirk. They hide behind Christianity to further whatever agenda that they have that is not moral, that is not rooted in religion, that is political, that is, you know, how they view humanity, whatever it may be. They hide behind religion and they weaponize it in order to further something else. And then you have leftists with their back, or, you know, people, I guess, liberal on their, with their backs against the wall saying, well I am, I do value humanity, I am a moral person. And so you're so busy trying to defend that that like. Yeah, then it gives them an advantage, I guess when it comes to the argument of that all over my social media today or this, these past few days.
- [47:43]
Van Lathan
Christianity is ruined society.
- [47:46]
Rachel Lindsay
Well, it's been, yeah, it's been ruining society.
- [47:50]
Van Lathan
Christianity is ruining society. I'll tell you this love of Jesus is not ruining society. Love of God, the actual adherence to any degree of what Jesus Christ actually said. There's no way that could ruin society. It couldn't, it's impossible. It's all right there in the teachings of Jesus Christ. It's all right there. Any peace loving, humanistic figure from the past, if you listen to what they say, the blueprint to a place where the least of us is as important as the perceived most of us, it's all right there. But that's been destroyed. It's gone now. I'm really sick of acting like it's there in any shred, like in any way. It's gone, it's done, it's done. And by the way, to the Christians out there that say this is not indicative of all Christianity, you're losing, you're losing, you're losing to them. So I don't want to hear it no more.
- [49:08]
Rachel Lindsay
Well.
- [49:10]
Van Lathan
They'Re losing, they've lost. I don't want to hear it no more. Get your house in order. I'm telling you right now, the teachings of the Bible that I grew up with, I still believe in. And I hold them close to my heart. And they are the reason why for me, I look at the world the way that I do. That's the reason why. That's kind of the first thing that taught me and told me empathy. But for everybody else else out there, just to let you know, the bad guys have won you guys are getting your ass kicked by the people that are weaponizing scripture and religion to oppress people. And I'm not a member of the church. I'm a spiritual and religious person. But I'm telling you to fix your shit.
- [49:58]
Rachel Lindsay
The thing that gets me about the whole Christian, I mean, there are a lot of things in the way that people are using Christianity specifically when it.
- [50:08]
Erica Alexander
Comes to this is.
- [50:10]
Rachel Lindsay
I mean, I said selective empathy on the last podcast. I'll say selective Christianity. It baffles my mind. And I've seen this multiple times, even when I went through shit with the Bachelor for some reason. You can apply Christianity and grace and understanding and sympathy and compassion and whatever words you want to use other than empathy to, towards the Christian you like, the Christian you approve of, but then somehow you can't flip and give me or someone who you disagree with that same grace and understanding and compassion and. And that Jesus Christ would. That's like. It's just right there. How does it work for this person that you like or you agree with, but it doesn't work for this person, yet you demand that. That I, who doesn't agree with something, do that same thing that you are incapable of doing. I don't understand how people can't see the hypocrisy. I don't understand. And I saw somebody say something like this.
- [51:16]
Erica Alexander
You.
- [51:16]
Rachel Lindsay
The audacity of people telling me what I should do for somebody that you revered versus you. Not also saying, well, let me try to understand what she may be feeling. You feel that way. So you are demanding that I feel that way without even trying to hear or listen as to why I may feel this way, with the willful ignorance, the blatant, you know, ignoring of what the other side may be saying. You. You. You're agreeing on the same thing, right? Because what the left is doing is. And I'm not saying everybody is this, but majority of people are condemning the killing. But yet you ignore that because they're also talking about how this. What this person also represented. We're not allowed to say that. We're only allowed to do one thing. But you're allowed to do that. That's what keeps getting me. It's okay for you when you do it, but it's a problem when we do it.
- [52:13]
Van Lathan
Yeah, I mean, look, I think everybody owes it to themselves just to tell the truth to themselves and to everyone else. Like, when I say the truth, I mean, just kind of call it how it is that you actually see the. It's funny. It's Actually, it's not funny, but I still see a lot of people who want people to think that they are a good person. That's a weakness. It's a weakness to want somebody else to think that you're a good person. It's a weakness. It allows you to be manipulated by them. They get to define how good you are and you care about that definition. You don't owe anyone. You don't owe anyone, anyone, anyone. You owe it to yourself to be bigger than somebody's perception of you. Look at the world, look at yourself, your place in the world, and ask yourself questions about what you think is fair and what you think is right. And have conversations with people where you hear their perspectives about their lives, what they're going through and how they're making it day to day. And take those perspectives into consideration when you make your decisions about how you look at the world. But if you don't agree, if you do not agree, if you say something and you can't get with them on that, that's what it is. And if they think you're a bad person because of that, fuck it.
- [53:59]
Rachel Lindsay
I think if you also care whether or not somebody thinks you're good, then it really taints the goodness that you're trying to do, right? If I'm doing something because I care what somebody else thinks about what I'm doing, then that undercuts the good, right? Because if I'm doing something that I think is good, I'm doing it because I believe in it. I, I, I, I, I want to see it through. Whatever it is that I'm doing, it means something to me. I'm not doing it because I'm look, seeking approval. Because if you are, then you're not doing something that's good. You're doing it to, to get recognition or to be whatever, please somebody else. Like, it has to be within you to do it. No matter who's paying attention or not, it's because you believe in it and you want to.
- [54:49]
Van Lathan
I want to be clear about this. There is nothing wrong with doing something to make somebody feel good. It's different doing something to make someone feel good, to make someone feel a little bit more secure, to like brighten somebody's day. I think that's part of the human experience. What I'm saying is living your life trying to prove that you are a good person to people, allows people to manipulate and control you. It only goes so far. Live your life with a set of ethics, morals and values that you are uncompromising about. And to me, try to understand that people's perspectives in the community that you share with them are a factor in that. You have to consider how you're affecting other people. Sure. You absolutely do. But what you cannot consider is whether or not they are. They condone or endorse the way that you have to live your life. You can't. But, you know, I'll tell you what you can do, is you can build teammates with people and you can go out there, you can achieve. And I learned that. I learned that this Sunday. Shout out to Nick May. Nick May told me, shout out to my man, Nick May. Because I've seen a lot of people respond to what I've been talking about with my basketball issues. It resonated with people. They cared. They cared. Rachel might not care, but they cared about. But, Donnie, I want you to play a video from something that happened this past Sunday at the Crenshaw ymca. Shout out to all the brothers at the Crenshaw ymca. It was good times running with y' all up there. I'm gonna be there every Sunday. Shout out to the Crenshaw YMCA over there. Donnie, play the video I sent you. Look at this. This is a game where it was. It was hard to come by buckets, Rachel. We couldn't come by. We, we. We ever. It was a defensive struggle. It was a defensive struggle, right? And we really couldn't get to what we wanted to get to because we had a couple players on our team that was killers. It's killers, right? But we couldn't get to the bucket that we need to get to because they were keen in on our guys. And for one day, Van Lathan was able to come through. Look at this, look at this. Here's the play by play. Donnie, watch this. The ball's coming in. We trying to figure out how we gonna score. Next bucket wins. Next bucket wins. Oh, point guard has the ball. What is he gonna do? Look, I'm fighting. I'm hand fighting down there. Oh, he's trying to push me out. I'm using his leverage. Oh, look, Post up the big fella. Post up the big fella. Supposedly great catch. Turn around.
- [57:28]
Erica Alexander
Boom.
- [57:29]
Van Lathan
And look at that. Look, look. And now I'm talking to the hecklers on the side, because that's what I do. I succeed. And then I talk to the people that's been heckling me. I talk to the hecklers on the side. That's a game winner. Rachel.
- [57:42]
Rachel Lindsay
Much. How much taller were you than that guy?
- [57:44]
Van Lathan
A lot.
- [57:45]
Rachel Lindsay
The one you were posting up a Lot taller. Yeah, that's what I thought.
- [57:49]
Van Lathan
So what?
- [57:50]
Rachel Lindsay
You had the advantage.
- [57:52]
Van Lathan
That's what sports is about.
- [57:54]
Rachel Lindsay
I'm just saying you act like you were posted up against, I don't know, somebody. Somebody that's like what I used to play down in post, and the girls used to post up on me. Of course you're gonna hit a hook shot.
- [58:06]
Van Lathan
Can I be honest with you? I wonder how much you've actually played. Ok. Because that doesn't matter. He wanted that. So when we. Listen, when we ran down. When we ran down and I had hit not just that bucket, but I had hit one right before then another game winner. That guy, that kid who was guarding, he wanted that matchup.
- [58:31]
Rachel Lindsay
I'm not saying he didn't.
- [58:32]
Van Lathan
So what I'm telling you is it.
- [58:33]
Rachel Lindsay
Doesn'T have anything to do with it. I'm just saying for the people who.
- [58:35]
Erica Alexander
I'm just saying that you'll hate it.
- [58:37]
Rachel Lindsay
I am hating.
- [58:38]
Erica Alexander
I'll own it.
- [58:40]
Van Lathan
You're a natural hater.
- [58:40]
Rachel Lindsay
I'm just saying for the people who may not be watching it. I just wanted there to be a size comparison, you know, so people.
- [58:48]
Van Lathan
Which is why I posted them.
- [58:49]
Rachel Lindsay
It was a bit of an advantage.
- [58:50]
Van Lathan
This is a natural hater. I love this, by the way. It's like Kareem Abdul Jabbar is. I will bust his ass right now. He's like 80 years old. So. So what I'm. So what I'm saying is it's okay. That's another thing, man. And we got to get to the guests in a second. But that's another thing. When you are a natural hater. When you naturally hate on people. When you naturally hate on people. Also own that.
- [59:15]
Rachel Lindsay
I did. I said I am hating.
- [59:17]
Van Lathan
There you go. So when you are a natural hater, and that's the kind of hater energy that you bring. Like, get in on that. It's a lot of y' all out there as well that are haters that try to act like you're not. Don't do that. Hate with your full chest. I'm gonna continue to go back out on the court.
- [59:35]
Rachel Lindsay
You should.
- [59:35]
Van Lathan
And I'm gonna get my game back. Despite the haters in the comments and despite the haters on the podcast. All right, the question is, when you gonna come out to Crenshaw?
- [59:45]
Rachel Lindsay
I'll come out.
- [59:45]
Van Lathan
There you go.
- [59:46]
Rachel Lindsay
I'll come out.
- [59:47]
Van Lathan
I can't wait.
- [59:47]
Rachel Lindsay
I'll come out. Yeah. I'll absolutely come out. I think it's great you went out there and played basketball. I just wanted to paint a full picture.
- [59:55]
Van Lathan
I think it's great they saw the video they seen.
- [59:57]
Rachel Lindsay
I think it's great. But some people listen to the podcast.
- [59:59]
Van Lathan
Well, if.
- [60:00]
Erica Alexander
By the way, you should be watching.
- [60:01]
Van Lathan
If you're listening to the podcast, you gotta watch on YouTube, man. You gotta watch on YouTube because if you look. If you're looking at me, you're starting to see the scars, right? This is the scratch. Starting to see the scratch.
- [60:12]
Rachel Lindsay
Is the scratch that. That's a huge band aid. Is it that bad?
- [60:16]
Van Lathan
So this scratch was actually pretty bad. But I'll tell you something else about this scratch. It's not healing as well as I've healed in the past. And they tell me that that could be because of the Jaro. Jaro.
- [60:30]
Rachel Lindsay
Oh, I don't know why. I thought you said you stopped taking that.
- [60:32]
Van Lathan
Nah, I didn't stop.
- [60:34]
Rachel Lindsay
I'm still on it. That's. I hope that's not the case.
- [60:37]
Van Lathan
Well, I mean, so this was a big scratch, kind of a deep scratch. Huge scratch. And it keeps getting. It keeps getting. It keeps getting wet. Because I'm out there hooping.
- [60:45]
Rachel Lindsay
Can I tell you something that I saw today?
- [60:47]
Van Lathan
What do you want?
- [60:49]
Rachel Lindsay
I'm really excited for you. I have put. I've been talking about this since I've been got in tune to it. I put Kalika on it, and I saw that you are watching the Gilded Age.
- [61:04]
Van Lathan
Yeah, it's a whole Kalika thing.
- [61:05]
Rachel Lindsay
And Kalika got you in. I put Kalika on. I am thrilled. It is the Real Housewives of the Gilded Age. I know some people are struggling to find some things to watch on tv. The Gilded Age is so good. There are so many levels to it. And I'm thrilled for you that you get to embark on this journey.
- [61:24]
Van Lathan
I'm going to become the number one advocate of the Gilded Age. I watched this pilot episode of the Gilded Age as a show, and it's the type of shit that I like.
- [61:32]
Rachel Lindsay
Yeah, it's so good.
- [61:34]
Van Lathan
I like shady shit, first of all. And this is the shadiest show that I've seen in a while.
- [61:39]
Rachel Lindsay
It's shady, but there's a little bit of, like, history in it, too. Not a little bit. There's history in it.
- [61:44]
Van Lathan
There's history.
- [61:45]
Rachel Lindsay
There's. I mean, there's the mess, there's the gossip, there's the cultural. The societal issues of the haves and the have nots.
- [61:52]
Van Lathan
Actually, the halves, it's actually the central tension seems to be. Well, I've seen one episode between the halves.
- [61:58]
Rachel Lindsay
No you get it. You get it. And it's peak white mess.
- [62:01]
Van Lathan
It is peak white mess. I love it. I love when there's a conversation happening between characters and the characters don't really want to say the thing, but they're saying it anyway. So there's four people sitting around and they don't want to say the thing, but they're saying it anyway because they just fucking can't fucking stand each other. Look, I like on the. On a pilot episode, white woman lost her purse. Black lady was there for. And not a black lady got a job. She's in there with them.
- [62:34]
Rachel Lindsay
Miss Peggy Scott.
- [62:35]
Van Lathan
Miss Peggy Scott. The Russells across. I'm fucking with the Russells right now.
- [62:39]
Rachel Lindsay
The way we were talking about Christianity and how people use the hide behind Christianity. It's class in the gilded.
- [62:45]
Van Lathan
It's class.
- [62:46]
Rachel Lindsay
They hide behind class. They hide behind class to further their agenda.
- [62:51]
Van Lathan
They also hide behind not even so much class as it is. How can I put this historical hierarchy? Because the one lady says, van Rhijn. Van. She says, always the old, never the new. Don't matter how much money you got. If you haven't always had money, then it doesn't fucking matter to her.
- [63:19]
Rachel Lindsay
So good, guys. It's so good.
- [63:21]
Van Lathan
Oh, we got Erica Alexander joining us on the show right now. Erica Alexander's popping in.
- [63:25]
Rachel Lindsay
This episode is brought to you by ebay. We all have that piece, the one that's so you. You've basically become known for it. And if you don't yet fashionistas, you'll find it on ebay. That Miu miu red leather bomber, the cousteau Barcelona cowboy top. Or that Patagonia fleece in the 2017 colorway. All these finds are all on ebay, along with millions of more main character pieces backed by authenticity guarantee. Ebay is the place for pre loved and vintage fashion. Ebay, things people love.
- [63:55]
Donnie
This episode is brought to you by NBA 2K26. A favorite of my sons and me. All right, quick break. NBA 2K26 stacked this year. Gameplay new motion engine, smoother catch and shoot. The rhythm shooting is dialed in. My team added the W. So now you can get Caitlin Clark pulling up from deep. Larry Bird talking trash mid game. Jokic casually dropping triple doubles. It's absurd in the best way. My career has a whole new storyline. The city's tighter and you're on the court way faster. I've been playing video basketball games. I think the first one was early 80s. I'm stunned. Like when I. When I go and my Son's playing with his friends and I go in and I barge my moon and I start playing with them. I'm just amazed by how good, how detailed all the games are, how they really look like NBA players. 2K26 is finally here. And yeah, it is absolutely loaded. If you care about basketball even a little, you're checking it out today. Ball over everything.
- [64:51]
Erica Alexander
Thank you. How are you doing? Doing great.
- [64:52]
Rachel Lindsay
We are great. Thank you.
- [64:54]
Van Lathan
This is a treat for us, Erica.
- [64:56]
Erica Alexander
Oh, we're big fans.
- [64:58]
Van Lathan
We're big fans.
- [64:58]
Erica Alexander
Oh, I'm back at you. Thank you so much. It's a big deal. I started saying, oh, shoot, he's gonna pepper me with these political questions. I'm ready.
- [65:09]
Van Lathan
We're ready to talk about.
- [65:10]
Erica Alexander
I see you when you used to be on tmz. I said, he ain't gonna let. He ain't gonna let it lie either. I said, he comes hard because, you know, I watch you on. Also on CNN with Abby.
- [65:19]
Van Lathan
Abby, Phillip.
- [65:20]
Erica Alexander
Yeah, give it to him with your cowboy hat. Why do you wear a cowboy hat? You from Texas?
- [65:23]
Van Lathan
I'm from Louisiana, so I'm from Texas. She's from Texas. I wear the cowboy.
- [65:28]
Erica Alexander
Ha.
- [65:29]
Van Lathan
She's from Dallas, Erica. So I wanna get right into it, like you are having. You've had a fantastic career. You've had a fantastic career. You're having a fantastic career, but you're having like a. In like a renaissance right now. It's really, really interesting. You have reliving single the podcast, which is amazingly successful. You were just in a really close friend of mine's movie, right? And that movie was one of the biggest court. And that movie was American fiction. Fantastic role in American fiction.
- [66:08]
Erica Alexander
Thank you.
- [66:08]
Van Lathan
What are you feeling like right now with everyone talking about Erica Alexander evasion. Big deal. Tv, film, podcasting, all happening right now.
- [66:19]
Erica Alexander
How do you feel? I feel good. I mean, I was 42 years. For me, in this business, when people say pay your dues, I certainly have. I'd like to think that I've earned the right to not only be here, but also those people who are putting me in their projects. They had to. I guess they had to matriculate. I mean, I had to wait for them to be there to know what I do. I had to wait for y' all to grow up. It's. It's an interesting thing because sometimes you miss your time. There's a lot of people who I know and who I love and adore that did not get these opportunities. It wasn't because of talent. It wasn't because of attitude or anything. It's just the time didn't make space for them. It couldn't absorb them. There was no place to put them. It's still that way, Very much so. But with the advent of the Internet and the opportunity for people to tell their stories, from Spike Lee, sort of showing how you could, and Robert Townsend, to people like Cord and Alicia Harris and Jordan Peele, who I was in, get out, they also needed to become who they were for them to get the opportunity to say who they wanted in their movies. I was invited by Cord. He didn't ask me to audition. He asked me, did you want to do this role and look at the script? And you say, of course, I'd love to be there. And you go where you're invited, hopefully. And not many people had the power to invite me even if they wanted to. So I don't know if it's my renaissance more if we're in a space where there's a lot of people who are in power for themselves, who can now dictate what they. How they like to tell their story.
- [68:00]
Van Lathan
I want to ask you about that specifically, because I hear that from so many of my friends who are particularly actors, actors that were black, actors that were the 90s and the 2000s, and when there just wasn't as much power, creative power at the top to really utilize a lot of the fantastic talent that was out there. Is there anyone that you think about from the 90s or the 2000s or even the 80s that should have been and would have been a huge star that just did not get cracks at it? Me and Tay used, like, a friend of mine, Tay Diggs, we used to talk about this a long time ago. He told me, he was like, you know, when I first broke and I saw Matt Damon on the COVID of Vanity Fair, I used to look at Matt Damon and be like, well, why can't I be on the COVID of Vanity Fair just like Matt Damon is on the COVID of Vanity Fair? But he was like, I got out there and I saw that there just wasn't as much available to me as there should have been, or you thought that there would have been. So I think about a whole generation of really talented people who are still around, don't get me wrong, but maybe didn't get the opportunity to be in certain types of movies or certain types of television shows. Is there anybody that you think about from that time and you're like, damn, I wish it would have worked out differently?
- [69:19]
Erica Alexander
Sure. Most of the people I came up with, frankly. I mean. I mean, there are two almost too many to list. But I can tell you now, even I just did Wu Tang, An American saga with, say, nine to 10 young black men who are extraordinarily talented. And there's only gonna be space for one or two of them within the business, and you can take that to the bank. I kept saying they needed a Vanity Fair, I guess, cover with them just like they did the Outsiders, you know, with Rob Lowe and blah, blah, blah. And just show them. I said those. They're amazingly shame Moore. Elijah. Elijah.
- [69:55]
Van Lathan
Ashton Sanders.
- [69:57]
Erica Alexander
Yeah, Ashton Sanders. Doing well. I just did something with him in Invasion. The point is, even now, I look at them and know that there's only going to be a few opportunities to take them. But growing up Regina Taylor, she did I'll Fly Away. She should be in more things. I was with Gloria Foster off Broadway at the Public Theater. I did six shows at the Public Theater. I did Shakespeare in the park with tons of amazing performers. Never saw them again. It's the truth.
- [70:27]
Rachel Lindsay
I want to talk about Invasion, but I want to piggyback on a little bit of the conversation that you guys are having, because I saw something where you and Kim. Kim Coles acknowledged that Living Single laid the blueprint for so many black ensemble sitcoms, but that the legacy of it has been overshadowed. Why do you think that is?
- [70:52]
Erica Alexander
Because we devalue things that are of color. I refuse to say the. The. The black shows. I don't believe in that. A lot of people like, yeah, but we own those shows. That's ours. That shows that, you know, with that we're, you know, you know, that we embrace that or whatever. Embrace them. I said, tell me another group of people. They say Italian shows. They say. I mean, they don't. If we. Growing up, the Jeffersons was not a black show, and neither was what's happening. It was a show with the black cast. That's a fact. The minute they can do that, they are setting the terms of engagement for promotion and marketing, and it devalues what we do. It keeps us at a level that says that, oh, that's a black show. No, that's a show with black cast. And also there's also white supremacy. It is what it is. I hate that everything is a default position of, why does this happen? I said, because white supremacy is real and we need to acknowledge that Equity and the types of things we talk about with the diversity or even inclusion were things that are not something that's an option. It was essential for America's progress to progression and also statement of what it was out of many, one, not for some, a little, you know, a little bit. That's not, that's not it. So that's why we, we, we are. We may be, you know, visually y' all may recognize us, but we work in the same corporate structure everyone else does. And it doesn't promote people to the C suite equally, if at all. Certainly not black women. So, yeah, we're getting a lot of play and love, but we're still undermined by the downward suppression of wages and of not even being promoted outside of our own so called core audience. They keep talking about the core audience. Yes, there are people who uniquely know us, but that shouldn't be the limitation to the borders of who you design a PR campaign to. And that's been our problem. And it's not unique to us. It is what it is.
- [73:06]
Rachel Lindsay
Do you think that that happened because of friends?
- [73:12]
Erica Alexander
No.
- [73:13]
Rachel Lindsay
Okay. Just because they were around the same time and, you know, all of that surrounding it. I was just curious.
- [73:19]
Erica Alexander
No, no, no. It wouldn't be the first time where there's a blueprint here and then there's another blueprint that there's something that's derivative, that's made, that's again projected into a different space, publicized and marketed into that space. It's leveraged afterwards. The IP is seen as more valuable. It never went off the air. Neither did we. But you didn't see us at Pandora, where you could get charms necessarily an. An experience of immersive. Immersive experience. You didn't see that. Why? Because why would you invest in something that you feel is not valuable? And at the bottom line, there is an. There's a. Not only a mindset, there is a credible conversation and intention. Intention to devalue what black people do in our culture, whether it's successful or not. So that's why you got Elvis. Not because you didn't have the brother who was before, who not only sounds just like Elvis is, Elvis did the blueprint, but you never saw that brother promoted that you weren't going to see him.
- [74:20]
Van Lathan
You know, it's interesting, there's a tension here and I want to talk to you about it. The tension is about black. So, so many of the artists that I hear from, so many of the artists that I hear from, that I talk to, that I work with, go, hey, man, you know, when they even talk about some of the stuff that we've done, hey, this is a story with black people. Don't. Don't this is not a black story. Like so many of the artists that I hear about, say, have the exact same perspective. I think there's a tension with the audience sometimes because the audience finds safety in things that are black, things that celebrate them. It lets them know that they can laugh a certain way. It lets them know that there's gonna be a sort of type of humor that they can connect with. It lets them know that they can be even in community watching it and in the regular world. Labeling something black or saying that it's black is important for people to know that it's a place where they should go and should feel safe. So artistically, there seems to be people that are saying, listen, in order for us to be able to get our stories out, we're telling stories about who we are. We can't have them pigeonholed. And then societally, there seems to be people that are saying, I want black stuff. I want it to be unapologetically black. I want to have to call it black. I want to know that I'm in community with people musically, politically, socially, all of that. And we never really get a chance to talk about that tension because everybody has a point. What would you say to that? How do you feel?
- [76:05]
Erica Alexander
Well, I take that argument up seriously. If we just call basketball black basketball. I don't get it. Everybody black knows to go there. Let's do black football. Let's do black sports. How about that?
- [76:21]
Van Lathan
Black rap.
- [76:22]
Erica Alexander
Black rap. That's the problem. It doesn't hold weight if you have to manage it somewhere else. Where you say, do black people know they're invited there? Yeah, because they see black people all over the place doing well and doing their thing. The reason why it's like that is because we had to demand that black people be in. Be cast, you know? And so then suddenly it was demonstrated that United could cast us. The Cosby show showed that we'd be number one. He created Must See tv. Seinfeld would not be there for that. Neither would Friends. That's on NBC. Didn't anybody ever call Cosby Show a black show? No. No one needed to tell us that we need to show up there. We saw us there. We saw our people there. Like I said, I just use the thing as the Jeffersons or even Sanford and Son, you know, a junk man. A junk man and people. It was right next to mash. It was right next to Three's Company. No one told us. We. We knew that, but it really is a. The conversation really is about how business works. And how if you start to create, it's like a cultural ghetto and if we don't know that we're part of it and how we start to label or use our labels. I mean, I, I say all the time that everything is narrative. And if you're not in, if you don't understand the narrative game, then you are not in the world. But here's a narrative that we took on that we proudly boast. Oh, CP time. CP time. I. I call foul. That's ridiculous. Black people weren't allowed to be late, but we took it on. So then suddenly we start to be do that behavior. I always said it should be the darker the skin, the earlier in. That's what we should be saying, the earlier in. With investment. The earlier in you have to come in, the more you have to do. It's just what it is. But we took on that and we think it's fun. Oh, you know that CP time. No, I don't know. I don't know what you're talking about because I can't get to where I'm going. And black people, you know, would not only being beat and Jim Crow were we allowed to be late. So how do we do it? Because they said we were shiftless. I was coming, boss. Oh, thank you. And they telling us that beating us for 400 years and we are feeding their children and our men are being demoralized and demeaned. No, I don't buy it.
- [78:44]
Van Lathan
What if I told you that the cptime thing is black people saying that they can be late with each other because they couldn't be late with the white man. It.
- [78:52]
Erica Alexander
No, I don't buy it.
- [78:54]
Van Lathan
Okay.
- [78:55]
Erica Alexander
I buy it as a harmful stereotype that we put on. Just like we say, oh, we made it ours. You made their word yours. It's absurd. I don't see another group saying, oh yeah, they call us that and that's what we gonna be. It's not true. But we have found in our. There's an examination of psychology. And again, we are unique in all this world. We are the orphans of Africa in the diaspora. We are unique because we live in a first world context. And we're just trying to find a way to explain why we don't have power. So we take things and we say, yeah, it's ours and we're going to do this and that, and we have. And yet I said, we're not going to be free unless we stop. Again, the terms of engagements are not ours and we're not playing by the Queensbury. The Marcus of Queensbury rules. They're hitting straight punch that are damaging. Look at how many things have been destroyed with that word. People walking around now you see it in Africa and people going around going, nig, nig, nigga, nigga in Africa. And it hurts you like, oh, God. We exported that to our homeland. We should be ashamed of ourselves to not recognize what Malcolm X and James Baldwin and the people who made us, that they understood that words matter, that the narrative mattered. The fact that we could sort of twist it and think that it's ours is actually they succeeded in branding us. When the people who are branded become what they have beheld, it's horrible.
- [80:28]
Rachel Lindsay
Speaking of narrative and perception and business, talk a little bit about Color Farm Media and the mission to bring representation and inclusion and equity and all of that into media and I believe, even into politics.
- [80:46]
Erica Alexander
Absolutely. Well, Color Farm Media is my company and it's with co founded it with Ben Arnon and we met each other as community activists. I was a delegate for Hillary Clinton. He was a delegate for Senate. Well, they were senators at the time for President Obama, but as senator at the time. And we met at the DNC convention in 2008. And then we became friends and we started talking about, now he's a Jewish dude. He was in music and that type of stuff. And I had been an actress my whole life. Had started writing and realizing very early on when I before the Cosby show, that unless I started to write and create that I would always be waiting by the phone for somebody to choose me. And I did not have the self discipline. I did not have the wherewithal or even the crafts yet. Craft yet. But then I ended up marrying a writer, a black writer, African American writer. He was the first writer, African American to write a movie that made over $100 million. He wrote Eraser. And one thing he told me, he said, sit your butt down in that chair and finish what you could. Finish what you start. You know, write and rewrite. I didn't know what that really was. I've been a performer since I was 14. So Color Farm Media is my answer to a person, to an actress who. The first three roles that I got, the first one, I'm always grateful for these roles, but I have to say, say first row I got, I was a foster child. The second role I got, I was a prostitute. The next one I was a slave. So I didn't feel that way. I went to Philadelphia High School for Girls. I was discovered at New Freedom Theater in Philadelphia. I Didn't feel that I could authentically be who I was inside of those, those roles. And yet it gave me my career. And the only way you can change the game is to start to realize that you have power and what would you do with it if it was on you to create roles? And then Spike Lee was happening and all these people and starting to show us, you know, the Wayans brothers, that perhaps we could not only get shows on the air, but that we could be successful and have our own voice. And so that's what Color Farm was a long sort of journey for me to learn not only my craft as an actress, but also to demonstrate that I could expand within the arena of entertainment and teach myself new tricks. And then eventually going around and having the soul sucking experience of being told no, no, no over and over again no matter what I presented. We were pitching something, me and my ex husband, something called Concrete park, which is a comic book series now, but then it was a science fiction series and it was going to be a science fiction series or a movie. And at the time we thought this was great. You know, he had a background in advertising, marketing. He had mocked up these really great things so while we pitched, people could see what we're, they were getting. And we had waited a long time for this particular meeting and we pitched for many years and this was going to be the guy to do it. Anyway, before we could finish he said, well, black people don't like science fiction because they don't see themselves in the future. That's a d, that's a quote. We thought why? He told us about a movie that he made where they did a focus testing and the young, a young black man was left staring at the screen and they come, come from behind the scenes and they say, hey, is there anything wrong? And he said, yeah, I just want to know how'd that get to Mars? And, and he goes, what he was saying to us is the fact that this young man who's probably just making a joke by the way, he meant Ice Cube. But it was, it was Ghost of Mars. I'll tell you the name of the movie. Yeah, it wasn't that good. But you know, it's not Ice Cube's fault. And Natasha Henstridge, they it, you know.
- [84:25]
Van Lathan
John Carpenter that everybody tried to make a good movie and it just didn't.
- [84:28]
Erica Alexander
End up being, yeah, just was what it is. But the point is and, and the president of, of, of this studio thought oh, he can't really see himself in the future. Well, he didn't know that my ex husband in particular was like Malcolm and Martin putting together. And he says, let me tell you something. For black people, the past is painful, the present precarious, but the future is free. Free. We always see ourselves in the future. And he reminded them that inside of his past, the future had been created by people like Octavia Butler and Samuel Delaney and all these great science fiction artists. But also we also reminded him at the time that he was sitting at the studio with the number one star in the world, science fiction star in the world was Will Smith.
- [85:10]
Van Lathan
Yeah.
- [85:11]
Erica Alexander
With Independence Day, Men in black, Men in Black and all of that. See what people would tell you if you're not paying attention, Tell her you would lie. And when I tell some people, sometimes they go, yeah, it's probably hard for us. Are you kidding? We created the future he was in. We're rock and roll and the blues and all this stuff. We brought it not only from Africa, but we created out a whole cloth because we didn't even know who we were. So we projected ourselves in the future as a matter of survival. We are the futurists here in America, and we have been for the world. That's why our culture has transcended time, because it came from another dimension. So Color Farm Media is that it's meant to stand up and hold itself accountable to what people like Sir Journer Truth and Harriet Tubman and Frederick Douglass wanted us to do. They wanted to be challenged, challenge ourselves and be disruptors. To not listen and just take on what people say and certainly not to promote their ideas or within our own space is to shake off that kind of dust and that mud and become who we're meant to be, which is the children and the purveyors of the future, of future kings and queens.
- [86:22]
Van Lathan
Well said. I want to come back to something that you talked about a second ago, because it kind of lends to a question I want to ask about Black 90s sitcoms and a conversation that's been brought up just recently. So I do feel like sometimes, like, the first person to call me a nigga was, like, my dad and my grandfather, my uncle and them. You'd be messing around and be like, look at that little nigga go, right? And the genesis of the word and the genesis of some diet, some culture, some custom, all of it was reflexive. Like the older black people that raised me in South Louisiana, I watched them try to figure out how to exist and live and thrive and celebrate in a inherently pernicious place every single thing it Seemed like was like trying to kill them. The cops were, the society was, other groups were. And a lot of their cultural inventions were in relation to that. So when I see them and when I saw that, I actually was able to. Going back to what you said about the N word or any of these other things, I actually was able to see both the brilliance and the humanity in them. Taking some of the things that were used to assail them and extract the humanity out of them. Because legitimately, that's all they had. All they could work with was persecution. All they could work with was being second class citizens. Like, they didn't learn, wouldn't teach them to read. I started reading and my uncle, rest his soul, what, he would bring me a newspaper, he'd be like, van, read this. And I was embarrassed by it. I'd be like, why is he doing this? And my dad pulled me to the side and he was like, bleep his name down. Cause I don't wanna disrespect his family. Even though everyone knows this. He pulled me to the side and he goes, van, I've told this story before. He's like, just to let you know, can't read too good. So when he sees you reading, he freaks out like you're 6 years old. And when he sees this, he just goes crazy and he's like, you know, he doesn't read that well. So when he was sitting up there making me read for the whole family, I felt like I was on display. But what he was actually doing was like, look at what just happened. Right? I'm saying all this to say that like there is still to me and I'm wondering when I hear you talk so eloquently and that, by the way, they could call you eloquent Erica, if they wanted. Everyone talks about like, when I hear you talk so eloquently about the things that we must shake off. You're absolutely right. But I also wonder how we make the point when the way that we did things and the way that we approach things, it's what saved our lives, like. And so how do we get from the survival matrix that you're talking about right now to understanding what's good for us? How do we get out of being so reflexive to white supremacy and being so centrally girded up by what we're living under and with and just think about what's best for us? What do we have to do?
- [89:52]
Erica Alexander
I think that's excellently said. You know, I would never make the case that, that black people Especially for what we endured, should be. We're in a unique position of responsibility and accountability to some people who, who have been enlightened. But for the most part, we are a miracle overall. And there's a lot of grace and forgiveness that goes into understanding the depths and complexity of what you're talking about. And you're right, I call that organic sustainability. That we basically figured out a way to survive. And hopefully that meant that a new generation might, you know, provide an off ramp to that. But I do know that maybe I talk really about what I learned from Reverend Barber, William Barber of the Poor People's Campaign, who's one of my mentors. And he calls this the third reconstruction. And he says the first one, just after Lincoln, they shot him, assassinated, and halted it, and then just after the assassination of Martin Luther King, that we are in the third reconstruction right now, and we're the new architects. So knowing now what we know, and we're not just in survival mode, we're people talking about all sorts of different things. And yet we are always in survival mode because everything, as you said, everything has been sort of organized to kill us. Not just to get rid of us, to kill us. But what can we do? If we can think past that and if we are the architects, if everyone is listening to you and Rachel understands that, and that's why they come for higher learning. That's the name, your thing, higher learning, not just on intellectual, but on a spiritual plane, then we have to ask ourselves that there's a certain sacrifice we have to do, and we have to be the example. And not everybody will. But with your types of influence, both of you, it becomes the blueprint. And it's not because the other blueprint failed. That's what we needed before to get through how we got over, how we got over. But now we're not trying to get over. We trying to take over.
- [92:03]
Van Lathan
Trying to take over, get ahead, didn't get ahead.
- [92:06]
Erica Alexander
And we need a different mindset. And we need to remember that these people speak truth to power ourselves. Look in the mirror and what are you saying? And so that's what I say. If this is the third reconstruction, we are all architects of the third reconstruction. And we do need to find different ways. We need new worlds, we need new authors, we need new likes. Cord of that, New strategies, not new versions. Excuse me. We need new strategies, not just new versions. There are all these things that perpetuated white supremacy, but we can tell a greater story and a better truth. And for a lot of people, that's undiscovered country, but not for you. That's why you out there with your hat. Because you. He's on avant garde. He's on the front line. People on the front lines also get. Get the most win. They get the headwinds. Not easy. What. What we're saying needs to happen. But if you can't do it, then who can?
- [93:04]
Rachel Lindsay
I. That is, again, so well said. I'm like. I'm sitting here with what you're saying, and I know we said we won't make it political, and I'm not, but I'm just being honest. I'm sitting here with what you're saying and wrestling with where we are right now. When you talk about this third reconstruction and what first feels like this watershed moment where we are right now with the killing that happened last week. And I'm wrestling with how to be exactly what it is you're saying, but then also feeling very frustrated, very tired, very hopeless, if I'm being honest with you, with everything that's going on. So I'm like, I'm really wrestling with it right now, Erica. But you're not wrong.
- [93:46]
Erica Alexander
You're not wrong, Rachel. You are doing exactly what you're supposed to do. Who are you? If you're not sad, if you're not hopeless, if you don't want to feel that. That feeling where you just. It takes. Almost wants to. Almost wants to overrun you and just drown you. Guess what that's called being human. And who had to be the most human? Inhumane circumstances. Black people, African American. We feel and you hear that in Marvin Gaye. We feel and you hear that in our writings. And what we do when we get mad, we get mad from a place that we're always tamping down our rage. So sometimes it comes out in this space where we just are sort of just like, I'm gonna drown now. Thank goodness. Because if you didn't feel nothing, girl, then they won. They won. We can't let them with feel it and don't apologize for it. But the most part is please feel it. Because from there is a victory. I honest, I honestly believe that all your great ideas will come out of that pool and those tears of sadness, because inside of there is a mirror that will reflect back the solution. I believe it.
- [95:00]
Van Lathan
So two more questions for me. One is about 90 sitcoms. I don't know if you saw this, but a couple of months ago, Ari Lennox, who is a beautiful, talented black singer. Like, singer that's also black. Okay, I'm with. Okay. All Right. She said that she was watching Martin and. Or that she's watched Martin. I'm sure you heard about this. And she would see the jokes. Oh, maybe you didn't. She would see the jokes that Martin would make on Pam and it would make her upset. She was like, Pam was beautiful, Pam was dark skinned. And it seemed like Martin was always debasing Pam. And that started an entire cultural conversation about our sitcoms from the 90s, the way we used to joke with each other, how we can joke with each other, and whether or not some of the jokes that we made back then were approaching comedy in a way that minimized black women. Darker skinned black women, darker skinned black people. Obviously Gina from Martin was a lighter skinned woman and that was Martin's lady. All of that stuff we just talked about how we used to play. When you hear that being that you were on Living Single, which was one of the fundamental sitcoms of the 90, I almost said black again. And you guys played with each other and joked with each other about who had a job, about who looked like this, about what it. And your character in particular had an interplay and you guys would go back and forth. You were in one of those kind of relationships, almost like Martin and Pam were. What do you think about the criticism that Ari had about how we used to joke? And is there any validity to it?
- [96:59]
Erica Alexander
It's valid. Absolutely, it's valid. I understand that there was also a different. I have to contextualize it, that me and. Sorry, the character Max and Kyle were both dark skinned with, you know, there's a difference there. And also Max gave as good as she gave and sold it.
- [97:25]
Van Lathan
And they also ended up in a relationship.
- [97:27]
Erica Alexander
Yeah, that's right. They were. They were love and like, you know, hate, love, hate with each other. There's that, but that doesn't mean that having. Doing this rewatch podcast, I didn't see some things as a little different. And we talk a lot about colorization, you know, and we all suffered from it. I think that what we're rediscovering by even reclaiming our opinion about these things is nobody ever asked us back in the day anything. You come in, you're hired, you do your gig, you keep moving. And for the most part, so many things can be so normalized that you don't feel it. But then you need distance in order to have, you know, hindsight. And so it gives us insight. You're right, Van. There's no doubt about it. I knew then there were things I didn't like about that, looking at the Martin show, I didn't see it within our show, but then looking at our show, I did see a few things. I was like. And I took it on the chin like the chick I am, because that's what she does. But Erica Alexander was like, I don't like that. And that girl, they wouldn't have gotten away with that. And I say they because I don't think it was mean spirited. I don't think that even now the creator or anybody would have heard it like that. But I hear it. And being dark skinned is a unique burden in this world, especially for a black woman. And a lot of the true damage that was done in the wounds was, were unfortunately received by other black people. And all I know is that we can do better now, but we also need to all grow up and away from it a little bit.
- [99:16]
Rachel Lindsay
I think that's what's so great about the podcast that you guys are doing. Cause it's not just recapping or going back and diving in. It is about learning and teaching. And it's so much deeper than just, yeah, just, hey, this was our favorite show and this is why.
- [99:34]
Erica Alexander
Thank you.
- [99:34]
Rachel Lindsay
I want to ask you, I said I was gonna get back to Invasion and I wanna get back to it. Third season, shout out to Simon Kinberg. You're joining his. Friend of the podcast.
- [99:45]
Van Lathan
Friend of the podcast.
- [99:45]
Rachel Lindsay
Simon.
- [99:46]
Erica Alexander
That's what's up. Simon Kimberg.
- [99:48]
Van Lathan
That's my man.
- [99:49]
Rachel Lindsay
You're joining the third season. I would have said I've never really seen you in a role like this before. But then in talking to you today, you talk about you have a project with, dealing with sci fi. So you're obviously a fan of the genre. Tell us a little bit about you joining this third season and also if you yourself believe in aliens.
- [100:10]
Erica Alexander
Oh, I definitely believe in aliens. You know, I grew up with a few of them, my sisters.
- [100:14]
Rachel Lindsay
I was gonna ask, you know, they.
- [100:15]
Erica Alexander
Walk around, I'm like, I'm from Arizona, by the way. Arizona. Up in the mountains, Flagstaff. We had the observatory.
- [100:25]
Van Lathan
I saw that.
- [100:26]
Erica Alexander
There you go. And it was the first mega telescope that could see as far as Pluto. That's what it discovered. So the stars were very big in our, you know, you know how we grew up and looking at the stars. It's to this day, it's called a dark city. You can only have lights so much from any of the, you know, the town or the city because they, they seeing the stars is important and because we were so listen, we were living in Poverty. That's the truth. I always say I spent the first 11 years of my life in a hotel called Starlight off of Route 66. We used to go out there on hot nights and my father would lay on the. He was a itinerant preacher and my mother was a teacher. And one of the things we do is get a 25 cent soda, put a pin in it in the side, shake it up, and then have the, you know, the soda pop go into our mouths. And we sat there laying the stars. And he would tell stories and you could see shooting stars. And there was so much more talk about the stars, maybe because it was coming from the 60s. And I always believed that there was somewhere out there a world for us. Sorry, that was better than the one that we were living in. They had more access that was, you know, as beautiful as what we were looking at. And even Michael Jackson sang in something that he did with Spielberg about ET There were all these stories about, you know, Twilight Zone, Gene Roddenberry, Star Trek, Star wars, stars, stars that somewhere we would be working out, we would have worked out this stuff that we fight about now. There would be more equity, there would be more opportunity, but it didn't necessarily have to be on Earth. And so, yeah, I believe in the future. I believe in the stars. That's how I grew up, underneath the stars, hoping for a better life. And for me, it came. I was discovered in a basement theater called Freedom. And to this day, I'm grateful for anyone who's looking beyond what's happening today, because any story that's told in a science fiction sphere with Simon Kinberg is so good at. So good at this. He's a world builder. But so are we. And so we understand that. That's why we love science fiction, because we understand they're talking about us. The other is us, the aliens are us, many times. So I always be grateful to him. When he gave me a call and offered me the role, I didn't really know if I should take it because I didn't know. I don't know, Simon, you know, what this is about. But he asked, speak to me. And he said, may I speak to her? And we set up a call and he said, I'd want you to see what I'm building here. And it's not because he couldn't have anybody in the world play that, but he wanted me. He invited me to play. And then he told me what he had in mind. And the world builder, that's creating an opportunity to talk about the desire to be immortal and what it can create in you, good and bad. To me I hear it as what happens to a dream deferred. It can be something that's beautiful or it can come out and be poison. And my character on that verna is, is dealing with a huge amount of grief. And we must be careful in this world to not let our grief come out as poison. Let it stir something within us better than ourselves. We become in a leadership position so she be, she becomes a leader in a different position, you know, in this and this invasion. But we're also going to look to see if she can run away from the darkness that's harboring within, you know, within all of us. And so I think that science fiction is the best delivery system for how to speak about the current events. But we future. And God bless him, Kimberly's one of the best that ever did it.
- [104:32]
Van Lathan
Yeah. Also, you know, you get to build the world that you want to see. You get to, you know, like Roddenberry's doing Star Trek. He's. There's a world where there's, there's peace on Earth and we're exploring the galaxy and he's got an Asian representative in there, he's got a black representative in there. If you go back and look at Star Trek, it's actually a really, really, really disruptive futuristic show. Some of the other shows, I, not, not as much there's some sci fi out there where there's no black people in it. But like it's like, like there's, there's ones that are fundamental that are really people trying to build worlds.
- [105:09]
Erica Alexander
You know, maybe let's say how weird it is that here we are doing teleportation.
- [105:15]
Van Lathan
Yes.
- [105:15]
Erica Alexander
This is exactly what they did on Star Trek that didn't exist. And here we are teleporting into each other's home.
- [105:21]
Van Lathan
Yeah.
- [105:21]
Erica Alexander
As if you're Captain Kirk. Exactly right. That in many of those so called inventions that the writers projected into the future are now part of our existence. It's a powerful.
- [105:31]
Van Lathan
Yeah, like Dick Tracy used to talk on the watch. And then when I first got my, when I first got my, my apple watch, I'd be like, yo man, Dick Tracy, I got the Dick Tracy joint. Before, before I let you go, I just want to say something to you. You know, one of the first things that was on a television show that I really wanted to happen. This is gonna sound crazy. Cousin Pam was getting out of high school and she wanted to go to college and she asked Cliff and Claire if they would Pay for school. And this is getting towards the end of the Cosby show run. So I'm getting to the point. I'm like 11 or 12, right. So I'm to the point to where I understand how important it is for a kid to be able to go to college and the fact that cousin Pam had come to live with the Huxtables and all that. I remember thinking. I remember you got up and you left, and, like, you almost bumped into the door, and Claire said she wants to go to college. She can't even get into the kitchen. And I remember watching that going, damn, I hope cousin Pam gets to go to college. Because I understood at that point in life how important it was to take that next step in your life. Theo had gone. Like we had seen Sandra.
- [106:50]
Rachel Lindsay
Different world.
- [106:51]
Van Lathan
Denise had gone with a different world, and it had changed all these characters. I was like, man, I hope cousin Pam gets to go to college. I forgot what happened. Now, if you eventually went, I think that you did.
- [107:02]
Erica Alexander
Oh, she went.
- [107:03]
Van Lathan
She went. Right, right. But TV and all of the art and everything that we're talking about, it's fundamental. That's why it's important. People say it's not important. It's important that we get art that helps shape our worldview because art has a unique opportunity to do that. And you've been a part of a lot of that. And we're very, very, very thankful that you joined us today on higher learning.
- [107:25]
Erica Alexander
Thank you. I was glad to be asked. I'm a fan and, I believe a friend. And hopefully you see me as being on the same journey as you in different spaces. We all know the destination. We all know where we're going. And I really appreciate that you put yourself out there to sacrifice and put yourself in the line of fire, because it ain't easy. Bless you.
- [107:46]
Van Lathan
Thank you. Erica. So reliving Single invasion Color farm media. So much stuff going on tap in with Erica Alexander. She'll keep you inspired and she'll keep you entertained as well. Well, thank you. Oh, yeah.
- [107:58]
Erica Alexander
And the rise and fall of Reggie Dinkins, the NBC show that's going to be coming with me. Tracy Morgan and Daniel.
- [108:05]
Van Lathan
Oh, yeah, yeah.
- [108:06]
Erica Alexander
And Bobby Moynihan. Yes. It's a Tina Fey series. Comics. First time I've been back on NBC since Cosby show.
- [108:14]
Van Lathan
Wow.
- [108:14]
Erica Alexander
But also maybe as a regular character in a sitcom since living single. Wow.
- [108:20]
Van Lathan
So what's going on?
- [108:21]
Rachel Lindsay
The renaissance, like you said. Congratulations to you.
- [108:24]
Van Lathan
Thank you so much.
- [108:25]
Erica Alexander
I'm grateful to Tracy for building that with Tracy with Cena Faye and them. And again, it's good to be invited.
- [108:34]
Van Lathan
Absolutely. Thank you so much.
- [108:36]
Erica Alexander
Take care, beautifuls.
- [108:37]
Van Lathan
All right, bye. Bye. Oh, Erica, I had fun. I will say this. On Thursday's show, we're gonna do the top five black guys of 2025.
- [108:48]
Rachel Lindsay
What inspired this?
- [108:51]
Van Lathan
I can't tell you.
- [108:52]
Rachel Lindsay
No, I have to know now. I have to know. I need to know, because when you said it, I'm like, where is this coming from? What did you see, hear, feel that said? We gotta. We gotta. We gotta honor this on the podcast.
- [109:08]
Van Lathan
I'll tell you something, man.
- [109:10]
Rachel Lindsay
Who do you personally know somebody you want to put on this list? Is there somebody you want to pay tribute to?
- [109:14]
Van Lathan
It's people that I know that's on the list. But that's not where this came from.
- [109:17]
Rachel Lindsay
Or is this anti.
- [109:18]
Van Lathan
Nah, this came from. This was the idea of somebody. I can't tell you whose idea it.
- [109:23]
Rachel Lindsay
Was, though, because they're on the list.
- [109:25]
Van Lathan
Nah, they not on the list. They're not on the list.
- [109:27]
Rachel Lindsay
Okay, you can tell me off mic.
- [109:27]
Van Lathan
I'll tell you off mic.
- [109:28]
Erica Alexander
Okay.
- [109:28]
Van Lathan
I'll tell you who idea this was. This is a good segment, though.
- [109:31]
Rachel Lindsay
Okay.
- [109:31]
Van Lathan
We haven't done the van late 10 in a while. We gotta do glaze of the week on Thursday too. But we haven't done one. And we gonna do one. The top five. Cause we've really had some. Some. This has been a good year for black guys in entertainment. We have some guys that have done their thing and this is. But you know what else is coming off of. We gotta mention this. This is come off. Coming off of Terence fucking Crawford, right? Making history. That's a big fucking moment. I don't know if you guys care about boxing. Terence Crawford went up two weight classes and challenged Canelo Alvarez this past Saturday and got some easy work. Rachel, did you see the fight?
- [110:14]
Rachel Lindsay
I didn't watch the fight.
- [110:15]
Van Lathan
You didn't watch the fight? Yes, on that.
- [110:16]
Rachel Lindsay
I didn't watch it. No. I wanted to, but it was somebody's birthday.
- [110:20]
Van Lathan
Whose birthday was it?
- [110:22]
Rachel Lindsay
My friend, Shout out to shabby. She's turned 40.
- [110:24]
Van Lathan
Shabby.
- [110:25]
Rachel Lindsay
We call her Shabby.
- [110:26]
Van Lathan
So Shabby, her last name is what?
- [110:29]
Rachel Lindsay
Shabtai.
- [110:30]
Van Lathan
Shabtai. Interesting. What's her first name?
- [110:33]
Rachel Lindsay
Natalie.
- [110:34]
Van Lathan
Natalie. Shabby.
- [110:37]
Rachel Lindsay
We call her Shabby.
- [110:38]
Van Lathan
So her name is.
- [110:39]
Rachel Lindsay
She was a producer. I. I don't have a lot of friends still from those show days, but she's a friend. Producer, friend. She's at my birthday party. You probably just didn't see her.
- [110:48]
Van Lathan
Shabby. You know what I don't like, by the way? Shout out to Shabby. Happy birthday, Shabby. But you know what I don't like?
- [110:53]
Rachel Lindsay
What?
- [110:54]
Van Lathan
I don't like taking somebody's last name and making a cool nickname of it. I don't know why I.
- [111:00]
Rachel Lindsay
She did this. It's like me doing the way I did Big Rage. It was, call me Shabby.
- [111:05]
Van Lathan
I don't like it.
- [111:05]
Rachel Lindsay
So if that. If that's what you want to be.
- [111:07]
Van Lathan
Called, I mean, that's what you want to be called, that's cool. But like, Adam Schefter, Shefty, that's always something. Like, I don't like that. I don't know why that bothers me. Hey, hey, Van, do you. Do you know Banksy? Banksy's over there, man. That nigga's name is William Bankson.
- [111:23]
Rachel Lindsay
Is that because we can't do it with your name?
- [111:25]
Van Lathan
Nah, Lathy, you could. Vanny, people come up with new names for me all the time, but I don't like that type of. I don't like that type of. That. We're not, you know, Shabby.
- [111:37]
Rachel Lindsay
Personal preference.
- [111:38]
Van Lathan
Personal preference. But sh. Like, what's her name again?
- [111:40]
Rachel Lindsay
Natalie? Shapti.
- [111:42]
Van Lathan
Shaptai. Shaptai is such a 100,000 carat last name. That's a dope last name. Never heard of that before.
- [111:50]
Rachel Lindsay
Well, now, that's not her. I don't know what her married name is.
- [111:52]
Van Lathan
Oh, she got married?
- [111:53]
Rachel Lindsay
Yeah, that's her maiden name.
- [111:54]
Van Lathan
So I'm going to be honest with you.
- [111:55]
Rachel Lindsay
So Shabby comes from. From the maiden name.
- [111:58]
Van Lathan
I'm going to be real with you, man. This one of the funniest moments that ever happened, ever. So I had a friend.
- [112:07]
Rachel Lindsay
What?
- [112:11]
Van Lathan
I probably told this story before. I had a friend and he was getting married and. And. Or they were having a kid. They were having a kid and they were figuring out what they were gonna name the kid, and the father of his wife was like, you should take my last name and make it the kid's middle name. Okay, Middle middle name.
- [112:40]
Rachel Lindsay
All right?
- [112:44]
Van Lathan
Nah, man, hell nah. I was like, why? It's not that big a deal. He goes, hey, man, this nigga want his name to reign in my household. I was like, bro, it's not that serious. He was like, nah, hell nah. That man name ain't reigning in my household. I have to be honest with you. I thought it was funny and kind of crazy. Then it's like, it doesn't seem like that big of a deal to me.
- [113:07]
Rachel Lindsay
It's a little problematic. What if she's the only. Like, for me, there are no sons. Okay, so if my dad said that, like, hey, it's like, oh, it carries on the Lindsay name. I mean, that's like a reasonable thing. It doesn't mean the fact that he took it that way a little problematic.
- [113:25]
Van Lathan
I'm gonna be real with you a little bit because this. All of this stuff is so stupid. Like, it's funny. It is kind of interesting that there's so much that's in your family's last name and that the last name can just die and they could just be no more Lathans, no more Lindsey's. Nothing like that. And it could just go. And when I'm at my lowest vibrational level, I go, yeah, I don't need that to happen. How do you deal with it? But I could make an argument that Shabby is kind of letting the name rain. I could make an argument. I could put my.
- [114:01]
Rachel Lindsay
But what do you do with that?
- [114:02]
Van Lathan
She's kind of letting. She's letting. She's letting the name reign.
- [114:05]
Rachel Lindsay
I got a sorority sister shout out to Crystal. I'm about to say her whole name, but. Well, maybe I won't. I won't say her married name.
- [114:13]
Van Lathan
Say the name again.
- [114:14]
Rachel Lindsay
She got a married name. Right. But we all knew her before she was married. And we call her Dukes, which is her maiden name. And so I still call her Dukes. And I don't recognize necessarily I know what her full name is, but we call her Dukes.
- [114:31]
Van Lathan
Dukes. But for me, by the way, not a big deal, but it is just funny when I think about the name. Like, I think. Cause me, it wouldn't even be. It's not that even that big a deal to me. Like, it's not.
- [114:43]
Erica Alexander
Why?
- [114:44]
Rachel Lindsay
Cause it's a slave name.
- [114:45]
Van Lathan
Not cause it's a slave name. Just because, like, it's actual. It's actually luck that I'm a Lathan in the first place. It's just luck because my, what could you have been? I'm about to tell some business.
- [114:58]
Rachel Lindsay
Okay, beep out accordingly.
- [115:00]
Van Lathan
No, don't beep nothing out. I mean, you. Well, maybe Rachel's being smart about to tell some business. Family business. Getting told technically I am not a Latham. So the Lathan family, Big Momma and Big papa, they had 11 kids. However, they had nine girls. Okay, so they had nine girls, two boys, Gent and Pete. Rest in peace to these men. I love y' all so much, man. Gen Pete, my a grandmother. The guy that she was seeing was ill Married. El. Marriage. She had a couple of kids by this guy, including my father. This guy's last name was Greyer. So by their traditional rules of name reigning, I would have been a Grayer.
- [116:00]
Rachel Lindsay
Doesn't fit.
- [116:00]
Van Lathan
His name was JC Grayer was this guy's name.
- [116:03]
Rachel Lindsay
Damn.
- [116:05]
Erica Alexander
Leave that out.
- [116:05]
Van Lathan
He's been dead. He did well.
- [116:07]
Rachel Lindsay
He might have family.
- [116:08]
Van Lathan
He does have family.
- [116:09]
Rachel Lindsay
Okay.
- [116:09]
Van Lathan
Got a bunch of Greyers.
- [116:10]
Rachel Lindsay
Have you met the Grayers?
- [116:11]
Van Lathan
I've met the Grayers.
- [116:12]
Rachel Lindsay
Okay.
- [116:12]
Van Lathan
There was Muna Grayer. There was my uncle John Grayer. Shout out to my uncle John Grayer. Glenn's family is on this side. This Glenn's family.
- [116:21]
Rachel Lindsay
Okay.
- [116:22]
Van Lathan
Glenn's family is. That's Glenn's family. And so really the Lathan. Cause she then takes my dad and my dad is then raised by his grandparents, Big Mama and Big Papa. So he's adopted by them. And the adopted name is kind of basically Lathan. That's the. It's the adopted name. So we are a Lathan. I am the great grandson of William Latham and Elizabeth Ventress Lathan. Big Mama.
- [116:54]
Rachel Lindsay
But there's still Lathan in you.
- [116:56]
Van Lathan
There's Lathan. Wow. There's Lathan. There's. I am a Lathan. But it's all finicky anyway.
- [117:05]
Rachel Lindsay
And honestly, all our histories are like that. I've explained to you the Lindsay lot of it all. We don't even really know if that's her name. You know, some. Lots.
- [117:13]
Van Lathan
No, I'm saying this is another reason why the Gilded Age is so good.
- [117:16]
Erica Alexander
I know.
- [117:17]
Rachel Lindsay
Gosh, y' all gotta. I'm gonna watch it again.
- [117:19]
Van Lathan
There's another reason why it's so good. Because the one, the. The lady is a Brooks. Right. Her last name is Brooks. But then the other lady is a Van Ryan or whatever there. That's her niece.
- [117:30]
Rachel Lindsay
Right, right, right.
- [117:31]
Van Lathan
The family.
- [117:31]
Rachel Lindsay
She married into the van, into the Van Ryan family.
- [117:35]
Van Lathan
But Brooks is the maiden name. So too. Because Cynthia Nixon is kind of. I don't want to say is. You can't say old maid. Right. She's unmarried.
- [117:42]
Rachel Lindsay
Spinster.
- [117:43]
Van Lathan
She's a spinster.
- [117:44]
Rachel Lindsay
They say that in the show. If that's offends anybody.
- [117:47]
Van Lathan
Cynthia Nixon is a spinster, but she's a Brooks. And the niece is a Brooks. And then so there's the Van Ryan name that the lady had to marry. Carries a lot of weight with her because that guy wasn't a nice guy.
- [118:00]
Rachel Lindsay
Did you know that was Meryl Streep's daughter?
- [118:01]
Van Lathan
Who? Brooks in real life.
- [118:04]
Rachel Lindsay
Denise. Yeah.
- [118:04]
Van Lathan
Oh, that's the same lady from Materialists. She was a materialist. Okay, but so, yeah, so she's Meryl Streep's daughter. Makes a lot of sense. There's some actress somewhere that came from the hard, scrabble streets of Rhode Island. Baton Rouge, Jacksonville. And they said, out of here.
- [118:22]
Rachel Lindsay
She's good.
- [118:23]
Van Lathan
She's great. She's great. But they went out of here. Beat it, twerp. We need Meryl Streep's daughter to come here. She's fantastic. She's really good. She was good at Materialist for the one scene that she was in as well. She's fine. She's great. She's great. It's amazing. She plays a great part, but, like, these names are very important, and we put a lot in these names.
- [118:42]
Rachel Lindsay
A lot of weight. That. That show is all about putting weight on the name. That show is all about the name.
- [118:46]
Van Lathan
Yeah, it's all about the name. Okay, before. Before we go. I saw the scariest video in the history of hearing that, bro. And y' all have to see it, too, man. I saw the scariest Internet video ever. I don't know how this got popped up in my algorithm. My algorithm. So crazy, man. I don't know how this got popped up in my algorithm, but I saw the craziest. It's scary. I'm scared, so. Because I got scared and I literally was like. I felt haunted after I saw this. Y' all gotta see it, too, Donnie. This is a social media personality. His name is William Knight. Y' all have to see this on YouTube because you're not gonna get the visual if you don't watch it on YouTube. His name is William Knight, and apparently he's been AI this whole time, but people didn't know.
- [119:47]
Rachel Lindsay
But is he really? Because people. I read the comments, and they're like, no, he's not AI.
- [119:52]
Van Lathan
Maybe he not AI, though.
- [119:53]
Rachel Lindsay
That's how he's trolling us.
- [119:54]
Van Lathan
Hold on. Make it. For years, people have turned me into memes, compared me to video game NPCs, and even accused me of being something otherworldly. Yeah. Now it's time I finally reveal the truth. My name is Williams. Oh, my God, bro. And I am a digitally created AI influencer born in 2020.
- [120:18]
Rachel Lindsay
I think he's trolling.
- [120:21]
Van Lathan
Yo. That's terrifying. Why?
- [120:23]
Rachel Lindsay
Like that? I'm looking at other pictures of him right now. Donnie, look up some of the other human being.
- [120:28]
Van Lathan
I don't. I can't tell no more, man.
- [120:30]
Rachel Lindsay
I think he's trolling.
- [120:31]
Van Lathan
I don't know why. That. My heart, bro. Like that. That. That wasn't Donnie. That's not scary to you.
- [120:39]
Rachel Lindsay
That's a person.
- [120:40]
Erica Alexander
In real life it is, but Rachel's right. He's got other videos that are clearly.
- [120:45]
Van Lathan
How do we know? How do we know, y'? All? We do not know. Oh, my.
- [120:51]
Rachel Lindsay
The video's made to look like that.
- [120:55]
Van Lathan
There is no such thing as a coincidence. The fact that you're watching this video means you are energetically aligned with me and this message. Your thoughts create your reality, but you already knew that. Yet you still live a life that you dread. Excuse me. Oh, God. Donnie. Oh, God, bro. No, no, no.
- [121:18]
Rachel Lindsay
How would she have seen him if he wasn't AI?
- [121:21]
Van Lathan
I don't know how she saw him. She might be AI, too. We don't know anymore. We do not know. All I know is I saw this video and I was. I looked at it and I'm like, yo, man, it put fear into me. It put fear into me. And now I don't know what's real anymore. Because of William Knight.
- [121:41]
Rachel Lindsay
I can't stop looking at his social media right now.
- [121:44]
Van Lathan
That's what happens. That I went down a rabbit hole of William Knight El Paz, and I. I didn't know what the fuck was going on. That's scary. He knows. It's scary, too, by the way. What is this?
- [121:59]
Rachel Lindsay
They're saying he's in the audience of.
- [122:00]
Erica Alexander
A Judge Judy taping.
- [122:02]
Van Lathan
But how do we know that the Judge Judy taping is real?
- [122:05]
Rachel Lindsay
I love it. I love it. He's the founder of Grand Rising, the positive affirmation app. Go check him out for yourself.
- [122:11]
Van Lathan
No. No way.
- [122:12]
Rachel Lindsay
William Knight. Two T's. Two T's. Two Ts on social media.
- [122:16]
Van Lathan
That's scary to me. It's very scary.
- [122:20]
Erica Alexander
Okay, we're gonna go algorithm.
- [122:22]
Van Lathan
Apparently, I gotta fix the algorithm in some kind of way. I fix the Explore page.
- [122:28]
Rachel Lindsay
Oh, good. Oh, like you manually did it yourself?
- [122:31]
Van Lathan
Yeah, I had to just, like, dog videos, boxing videos, and all of that to fix the Explore page. Because the Explore page was disgusting. And so I had to fix it myself. I fix the Explore page. Maybe I don't know what the fuck happened with the William. The William Knight thing fucking bothered me, though. And it's scary. It's a scary thing. The whole thing is scary. You guys, we're going to go, okay, that's it. It's over. We'll talk about some of the happenings at the Emmys on the next pot. There were a lot of people on the Emmys that were outwardly supportive of Palestine. And not only that, there were upwards of a thousand actors and actresses in Hollywood that all signed a letter saying that they would not work with any studios, if I remember this correctly, that were materially involved in the genocide and Gaza. And when I say actors and actresses, I'm not talking about, I'm talking about big names here, gigantic names. They interviewed Javier Bardem on the red carpet of the Emmys and he was just very clear, Yep, just very clear about where he stands. There seems to be a shift. James Talarico has said that he would not take any money from aipac. Kathy Hochul, the governor came out to.
- [123:57]
Rachel Lindsay
Support put endorse Mumdani.
- [124:01]
Van Lathan
So there seems to be a shift happening here in terms of the way people are allowed to talk about this. The reason why I say that is because gotta be able to talk about stuff. Got people to have actual conversations. You should not in any way be afraid to say that children getting their face blown off by bombs that hitting a couple of weeks ago. Let me tell you guys what happened. I don't know if you guys heard about it. There was a camera on top of a building. I think I talked about this. It's a camera on top of a building. Zoro's camera.
- [124:42]
Rachel Lindsay
But I saw this.
- [124:42]
Van Lathan
Yes, it's a camera on top of building. Reuters camera. IDF says that it is Hamas camera. They hit the building. First responders and other help people go into the building. They go into the building. They hit the building again, double tap it. We got to be able to talk about this and tell the truth about it. Yeah, that's it.
- [125:11]
Rachel Lindsay
Seven, almost 700,000 people. People, 700,000 Palestinians. Almost 700,000 Palestinians. More than half of that reported number of children.
- [125:22]
Van Lathan
Yeah, we have to be able to talk about that. It is encouraging that people can talk about it and have conversations. We talk about it all. We talk about the perspective of our Muslim friends, We talk about the perspective of our Jewish friends. We talk about the perspectives of people involved in things. We talk about how prevalent misinformation is in the entire deal. But we don't lose sight of the truth right now is that there are atrocities happening and those atrocities are happening with the rubber stamp and backing of the U.S. government. And so we discuss, we talk. Then once we are in league, we motivate, we mobilize, we take action. So that is the deal. It is a non negotiable. We haven't always lived up to the higher we. Rachel has. I haven't always lived up to the higher standards of myself, it is sometimes not easy to do. It shouldn't be easy. There should be red lines drawn and there should be ultimatums given when people's lives are in the balance. So these shows have been serious for the last couple of shows because there's a lot of serious shit going on. But I'll tell you guys one thing, last thing is I'm having a great time. Like, it. It's. It's. I'm like. I'll just be honest with you guys. Like, I am. I am inspired by you. I'm inspired by you guys. I'm inspired. I know that the problems are fixable and that the answers are evident. I'm inspired. I'm not walking around with my head down, looking around. Part of that is privilege. But I am trying my best to stay motivated and engaged throughout the times that we're in. I'm not going to do it over the COVID of falseness. It's going to have to be in truth. So y' all want to laugh? You can laugh with me. You want to cry? You can cry with me. Want to get mad? You can get mad with me, but you cannot watch William Knight with me, because that's scary. That's frightening.
- [127:33]
Rachel Lindsay
It is frightening.
- [127:34]
Van Lathan
Take them caps off, but do not stop learning. I'm Dan.
- [127:36]
Rachel Lindsay
Rachel Jr. I'm Rachel and Lindsay. Bye, guys.