Epstein Distractions, Dr. Umar vs. 50 Cent, and Van’s N-Word Game

Summary

Podcast Summary: Higher Learning with Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay

Episode: Epstein Distractions, Dr. Umar vs. 50 Cent, and Van’s N-Word Game
Date: December 19, 2025
Podcast Host: The Ringer
Hosts: Van Lathan & Rachel Lindsay

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Overview of the Episode

In this wide-ranging and lively episode, Van and Rachel dig deep into the biggest current conversations in Black culture, politics, and entertainment. They break down recent White House distractions, critique political messaging on both the right and left, analyze media responsibility in the Black community, and close with a spirited (and hilarious) game where Van estimates celebrities' lifetime usage of the N-word. The tone is candid, sharp, and playful, with plenty of side commentary and memorable quips throughout.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Beauty Accessories Icebreaker

• (00:08–03:53)
  The episode kicks off with the hosts lightheartedly discussing essential beauty accessories—Rachel argues for eyebrow pencils, Van jokes “ass” is most essential, and everyone weighs in on makeup preferences and confidence.

  "We'll say it again. I understand makeup and makeup is very important, but I think women look prettier without makeup." – Van (02:52)

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2. White House Distractions and Messaging

• (04:51–14:03, 31:57–40:11)

The Brown University Shooter & FBI Criticism

• Trump and FBI Director Kash Patel are criticized for failure to find a mass shooter and for dodging responsibility. The hosts note Trump’s tendency to shift blame and how often that plays out politically.

• Rachel calls out the lack of accountability:

  “What always ceases to amaze me is how they never are accountable or responsible in any kind of way. ... It’s always the responsibility. The blame goes elsewhere. Unless it’s good, of course.” – Rachel (06:20)

• Van dubs Kash Patel the “worst person job in America,” sparking a competition about bad Trump appointees (Dan Bongino, RFK Jr., etc.)

Republican Messaging is Crumbling

• Rachel and Van explore how the Republican Party’s unified messaging is starting to fracture, with cracks showing due to overextension, internal dissent, and Trump’s waning political dominance.

• Van uses a memorable metaphor:

  “The MAGA right... don’t know when to put daddy in an old folks home. Daddy still wants to drive. They can’t take his keys.” – Van (10:02)

• Discussion pivots to “zone-flooding” by the White House with a barrage of news stories, theorizing these are distractions from potentially damaging Epstein file releases.

Epstein Files & Distraction Rankings

• Van and Rachel rank the week’s 'distraction stories' from the Epstein files:
  • Van: "The war [with Venezuela] is the best one. If you want to get people off what you're doing at home, bomb some brown people somewhere else." (34:32–36:11)
  • Rachel notes the ongoing shooter case and FBI drama as contenders but ultimately agrees nothing distracts like a war.

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3. Trump’s Use of Incompetent Appointees and Institutional Weakening

• (18:03–30:57)
• Van argues Trump purposely appoints loyal, unqualified figures (Kash Patel, Pete Hegseth, RFK Jr.) to erode public trust in government institutions, consolidating his own power in the process.
• Rachel contends the incompetence now makes Trump look weak, especially as public health and safety agencies falter.

  "I think he wanted them there... to do what he said. But at the end of the day, he wants to look strong. That looks weak.” – Rachel (21:18)

• They agree that while the tactic may have served Trump for a time, the increasing failures are backfiring and may be reflected in upcoming elections.

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4. Epstein Files & the Art of Distraction

• (31:57–40:11)
• Anticipation builds for the legal release of Epstein files, with the hosts dissecting how the administration is rapidly producing distracting news to minimize attention.
• Van memorably analogizes U.S. political distraction to “bombing brown people... a tried and true with American presidents...” (34:32–38:55)
• Rachel: “For all we know, Cash Patel did this interview not because he wanted everybody to see him in a different light. It's a total distraction.” (34:42)

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5. Race, Critique, and the Jasmine Crockett/James Talarico Campaign (Keith Edwards Discourse)

• (49:04–84:56)

Controversy over Political Critique & Racism Accusations

• Keith Edwards, a white political strategist and YouTuber, comes under fire for appearing to disproportionately criticize Jasmine Crockett (a Black woman) relative to her opponent James Talarico (a white man) in the Texas Senate Democratic primary.
• Rachel provides context, noting widespread accusations of racism—which she disagrees with—but raises the issue of fair coverage and “internalized racism.”
• Edwards responds in a clip, defending his right to critique any candidate regardless of identity and denying racial bias (53:00).
• Van contextualizes political coverage, drawing parallels to the hosts’ own coverage biases in past primaries and noting that it’s legitimate for commentators to “pick winners and losers.”

  "If he's analyzing a race and he likes one candidate and he doesn't like the other candidate... I have absolutely no problem with that." – Van (62:52)

• Both hosts agree criticism should be balanced and not based in stereotype or personal animus, especially regarding Black women who face disproportionate bias in politics and media.

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6. Dr. Umar vs. 50 Cent: Accountability in Black Media

• (86:58–98:51)
• 50 Cent produces a documentary about Diddy’s alleged abuses, which Dr. Umar calls out as “self-hatred disguised as community service,” suggesting Black people focus too much on exposing one another instead of white-led institutions like the Catholic Church or Epstein’s network.
• Rachel flatly disagrees, stating:

  "I watched all four parts. Diddy is a predator. He is a monster. And for too long, he's been protected in this industry." – Rachel (89:06)

• Van explains why the Black community must hold its own accountable, but also why there’s greater attention to intra-community harms or issues.
• The segment playfully turns into imagining a “showdown” between 50 and Umar, with the hosts rating them on social media skills, resources, fear factor, and rhetorical ability.
• Rachel jokes about Umar not having the resources to compete, and the segment is full of laughs and inside jokes about their notoriety and audience appeal.

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7. Van’s N-Word Game: Celebrity Edition

• (101:53–122:54)
• Van claims to have a “talent” for guessing how many times white celebrities have said the N-word, based on geography, age, and cultural context.
• Donnie names celebrities and Van gives his “science-backed” estimates, while Rachel plays devil’s advocate, challenging his logic and countering with background info.
  • Sydney Sweeney: 1,500 (target moves depending on cultural cues)
  • Timothée Chalamet: 3,000 (proximity to NYC, hip-hop exposure)
  • Julia Roberts: 500 (progressive upbringing)
  • Eminem: 5,000 (early transgressions, tailed off with age)
  • Mark Wahlberg: A staggering 85,000 (Boston upbringing, known past racist incidents)
• Rachel: “All of this is an opinion.” (118:36)
• The segment is hilarious, irreverent, and filled with banter about how race, place, and culture intersect with lived experience.

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8. Entertainment: Young Thug’s Proposal & Hip Hop Forecast

• (123:00–128:34)

• Rachel defends Young Thug and Mariah The Scientist’s public proposal, telling critics to “stay out of their business.”

• Van forecasts that Atlanta Hip Hop will return strongly in 2026, especially with the ripple effects of a likely Drake album, saying the genre “misses” Drake and needs his energy for revitalization.

  "The absence of Drake... is affecting at least one portion of the music... that keeps the club moving." – Van (124:50)

• The hosts end with jokes about Mariah Carey being the true “Christmas symbol” and some gentle ribbing about Van’s allegiance to Drake.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “The MAGA right... don’t know when to put daddy in an old folks home. Daddy still wants to drive. They can’t take his keys.”
  – Van, on GOP's Trump problem (10:02)

• “I watched all four parts. Diddy is a predator. He is a monster. And for too long, he's been protected in this industry.”
  – Rachel, on the Diddy documentary (89:06)

• “For a White House that loves to make news, this week in particular was an unprecedented zone flooding.”
  – Van, on the news distractions (32:03)

• “If you want to get people off what you're doing at home, bomb some brown people somewhere else. There’s not a better distraction”
  – Van, on American political distraction tactics (34:32)

• “His floor is set at 10,000 N words.”
  – Van, on Mark Wahlberg (115:55)

• On media fights:
  “Every time I turn on my motherf---ing phone, there's another beef. ... This one got my inner TMZ shaking.” – Van, on the Umar vs 50 Cent spectacle (99:27)

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Key Timestamps for Reference

• 00:08–03:53 — Beauty Accessories Icebreaker
• 04:51–07:14 — FBI, Brown University Shooting, and Trump Blame
• 07:21–14:03 — Right-wing Messaging Fractures; Trump’s “Strongman” Effect
• 31:57–40:11 — Epstein File Distractions; War as Diversion
• 49:04–84:56 — Texas Senate Primary, Jasmine Crockett vs James Talarico, Race & Critique
• 86:58–98:51 — Dr. Umar vs 50 Cent, Black Accountability in Media
• 101:53–122:54 — Van’s N-Word Game
• 123:00–128:34 — Young Thug’s Proposal, Atlanta Hip Hop, Drake & Mariah Carey

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Conclusion

Van and Rachel deliver another energetic, no-holds-barred episode, blending serious analysis with humor and personal banter. The episode is rich with cultural critique, critical self-reflection, and pointed commentary on how distraction, race, and power play out in American politics and Black media. It closes with comedic relief—Van’s N-word guessing game—and a hopeful look toward 2026’s Hip Hop scene.

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For more: Listen to the entire episode or check out Higher Learning, new episodes twice weekly.

Transcript

[Rachel]

Foreign.

[Van]

Warriors. Rachel, put your glasses on. What is up? Higher learning is on.

[Rachel]

Is Ivan Lathan Jr. And it's me, Rachel and Lindsay.

[Van]

Rachel, what the hell's going on? How's your road to recovery with your eyes?

[Rachel]

It's good. I'm back. I'm back. Yeah, I'm just outside wearing makeup.

[Van]

Why are you.

[Rachel]

Cause I don't have my lashes yet. I can't get in for my lash appointment, so I feel like it looks better with glasses.

[Van]

My meta glasses hide the lashes.

[Rachel]

I feel like they do. They probably don't, but I feel like I like the glasses look. I got some compliments on them in the last podcast.

[Van]

Yeah. I think meta glasses.

[Rachel]

Yeah.

[Van]

As a woman, what's the most essential beauty accessory? Oh, so. Oh, let me frame the question. You feel like if you are a lady, because, you know, the lashes are important and different stuff, but above all other things, you have to have this. What's the most important beauty accessory?

[Rachel]

Because it's not lashes for me. It is because I have big eyes.

[Van]

Okay.

[Rachel]

Like, if you don't. I don't think you need lashes like I do. That's just me. I think it's eyebrows, eyebrows. You've got to have, like, an eyebrow pencil liner. That's the eyebrows are the most touch to me. Important accessories shape your face, the whole thing. Yeah. Like, it pops. It makes it just.

[Van]

So if you don't have the eyebrows, then that's gonna bring the overall product.

[Rachel]

Down, I think so. That'd be the one thing that I. If I had to choose one, it would be my eyebrow pencil.

[Van]

Jay, what are your thoughts?

[Rachel]

I think for me, a nice. A nice blush.

[Van]

Nice highlight blush.

[Rachel]

Oh, wow.

[Van]

Yeah.

[Rachel]

I think blush can, you know, makes them. It makes it pop. Yeah. It gives you that rosy cherub look.

[Donnie]

Exactly.

[Van]

Do like this in your nose.

[Rachel]

Oh, no, I got a little booger.

[Van]

That's not booger, but it was something there.

[Rachel]

Okay. I appreciate that.

[Van]

I have to.

[Rachel]

I. I can't stand people who just look and stare at you.

[Van]

Yeah.

[Rachel]

Don't say you got something in your teeth or your nose. I'm not embarrassed by that.

[Van]

It's. It's. It's something that happens.

[Donnie]

Yeah.

[Van]

I think I know what the mo. The single most important.

[Rachel]

As a man. What do you think? Yeah.

[Van]

For a woman.

[Rachel]

Yeah.

[Van]

Ass.

[Rachel]

Okay. But, like, that's already okay. You. That's a body part. Beauty was the thing but. But noted, guys, because he was quick with that.

[Van]

You know, there's really nothing to me.

[Rachel]

Because I can't tell you can't tell.

[Van]

There's really nothing to me. Y' all all look pretty, but you.

[Rachel]

Would if we didn't maybe, like, if, if, if, like, I had no eyebrow pencil. If I. Well, that's really all I have on.

[Van]

Right now, but I'm never.

[Rachel]

Chapped lips.

[Van]

We'll say it again. I'll say it again. I understand makeup and makeup is very important, but I think women look prettier without makeup. It's not my place to get into the makeup situation. You always look a little bit better. I like to see how your actual face looks. I actually like to see a couple little bumps.

[Rachel]

That's important to me.

[Van]

It humanizes.

[Rachel]

That's important. I had a guy one time that asked me to take my makeup off.

[Van]

That was just trying to be.

[Rachel]

I could tell you who it was, but they asked me to take my hair.

[Van]

Oh, you know who it. I know.

[Rachel]

They asked me to take my makeup.

[Van]

That was just control, though. Hey, girl.

[Rachel]

And I was so young. I was like. And then, like, I took my makeup off. Like, at first I got offended.

[Van]

I was like, why?

[Rachel]

I was like, why?

[Van]

Yeah, I know who it is now.

[Rachel]

And then they were like, oh, I think you would just look so much better without it. And I took my makeup off and they were like, yeah, I was right. And I was so young. I was like, you like that shit? Yeah, it really did. This week on scene, on the screen, Hugh Jackman, obviously Oscar nominated actor.

[Van]

And as much as people love to.

[Rachel]

See blades coming out of his knuckles.

[Van]

And tearing some people up like, he. He loves to sing and dance.

[Rachel]

Yeah, he's a showman.

[Van]

He really is. But some have called him the greatest showman girl.

[Rachel]

Join me, Jacqueline Coley, as I meet the filmmakers, actors, and industry insiders influencing entertainment. Each episode, guests share their journeys and inspirations and answer trivia about the movies that shape them. My next guest is Craig Brewer, writer, director, and producer of Song Sung Blue. To listen, simply search seen on the screen wherever you listen to podcasts. So good, so good, so good. Give big, save big with Rack Friday deals at Nordstrom Rack. For a limited time, take an extra 40 off red tag clearance for everyone on your list. All sales final and restrictions apply. So bring your gift list and your wish list to your nearest Nordstrom rack today.

[Van]

A couple of things to get to. No answers from Brown about the shooter.

[Rachel]

Nothing.

[Van]

They had something and then they didn't have what they thought they had. They identified the wrong person. Yeah, Donnie.

[Donnie]

Yeah. The search has continued. FBI director Kash Patel wrote a statement on x that the FBI is offering a reward of up to $50,000 for, quote, information leading to the identification, arrest and conviction of a suspect. They've released images and video of a person of interest. But President Trump spoke on the response from the FBI, and this is what he had to say.

[Rachel]

Has Kash Patel told you why it's.

[Donnie]

Been so difficult for the FBI to.

[Rachel]

Identify who the shooter is?

[Van]

Well, it's always been difficult, difficult. So far, we've done a very good job of doing it with Charlie, with, you know, the various times this has happened. They've done it in pretty much record time. But you really have to ask the school a little bit more about that because, you know, this was a school problem. They had their own guards, they had their own police. It's, in fact, never difficult. It's never difficult to apprehend the perpetrator of a mass shooting. It is normally part of the entire mass shooting thing to get that guy. It's difficult for these bunch of slap dicks, but it's almost never hard. We almost know who the person is immediately or like, right in the hours following.

[Rachel]

Yeah. Yeah. What always ceases to amaze me is how it's never. They never are accountable or responsible in any. Any kind of way. Trump's like, oh, it's the school. It's a school. That's their problem. What? Then why is the FBI involved? Then why are you speaking on it right now? Of course, this is something that the administration has to be tapped into or the President of the United States should be concerned about, but it's never their fault. Like, aren't you tired? Aren't you tired of always having to put the blame on somebody else? It's fake, it's lying. It's. Whatever it may be, it's. It's always the responsibility. The blame goes elsewhere. Unless it's good, of course. So when they. When they capture, because let's hope that that happens, the person responsible, then it will be. This is what we do. You know, we have the best fb. We have a great FBI. We were on top of it. Well, what happened at being the school's problem?

[Van]

Yeah. Cash Patel is the worst person job in all of America.

[Rachel]

In all of America. Because there's. There's some competitors.

[Van]

Who else?

[Rachel]

Pete Hegseth.

[Van]

I think he's worse at his job than Pete is.

[Rachel]

I mean, you could. I know.

[Van]

We'll.

[Rachel]

We'll talk about it, but Dan Bongino.

[Van]

I think he's worse.

[Rachel]

You think Cash Patel is worse? He's the worst Go ahead, make the case for him.

[Van]

I mean, you compare him to those guys.

[Rachel]

RFK Jr. There's so many.

[Van]

RFK Jr. Is up there.

[Rachel]

Yeah, there's RFK Jr.

[Van]

I think cash Patel is by far the worst because I think he's had the most to do. I, he's had some high profile things. Think he had the whole Charlie Kirk assassination ungod, looking crazy and stupid. I think he's had this as well as some of the other things we've seen going on. I think he sucks. He's a terrible, terrible, terrible director of the FBI. Okay. He's terrible.

[Rachel]

He's bad.

[Van]

It's remarkable.

[Rachel]

It's a joke, but it's not funny, right? It's a joke that's not funny.

[Van]

Funny to me.

[Rachel]

You know what I feel like, and this goes with the Kash Patel of it all, we constantly talk about the Democrats and their messaging. I think it's, we gotta start talking about the right and their messaging. I think that they are, we gave them credit for how they'll unify and they'll lie together and they'll do all of this and push these narratives that they know are false and they all get on the same page and do it. Unlike, you know, the Democrats or whatever. And they're more, they've been effective in that way, but they're starting to have a messaging problem of their own. And I think we need to talk about that more. Things are crumbling and starting to fall apart. It's not just with the FBI, it's not the, just the Dan Bongino of it all, but they're messaging. They've, it's almost as if they've flown too close to the sun. All the lies are catching up with them now to now. They have to face, I guess, the repercussions of, or the fallout of these things that they've been lying about. I mean, if you think about it, healthcare is, is, it's, it's a problem. Epstein files, the Department of War, as they call it, has been an issue. The FBI, as we're talking about Israel, Palestine is another thing. Like their messaging is starting to fall apart. People are starting to question it. People are starting to defect. People are starting to have to leave the positions that they were appointed to. I mean, it's, it's falling apart.

[Van]

It's been happening for a while.

[Rachel]

It's been happening and we, we constantly, and we should, we should hold everybody accountable. But I think we need to highlight more that their messaging is not as effective as it used to be.

[Van]

Yeah, it's an interesting point. I don't know that it's their messaging not being effective is consequential in any way. I think it's consequential for them. But what does it mean for the American people?

[Rachel]

Well, well, I mean, you could argue that November, it's been consequential what happened with the elections there.

[Van]

No, what I mean is it's certainly a development. I'll put to you like this. When I'm talking about the Democrats messaging floundering or flailing. I'm talking about that because I believe that the policy to a degree that is at the center of the messaging is important for people. So it's important to talk about the messaging because the messaging is connected to the policy. And the policy to me is stuff that people need, whether it's health care, whether it's, you know, policing bills, voting rights, whatever it would be. So it's important to message correctly to things that people need. This messaging not working actually has nothing to do with anything that's about policy, the healthcare stuff notwithstanding. It actually has more to do with the fact that their coalition is cracking because of their strongman is withering. So what's happening with the right, and particularly the MAGA right is they don't know when to put daddy, their daddy in an old folks home. They're not sure when to put daddy in a nursing home. It's obvious right now that they should put daddy in a nursing home. But daddy still wants to drive. Daddy wants to drive his car and the right can't take his keys. There are people in the right right now, whether they be J.D. vance, whomever, it would be all of these people who are silently bucking Trump, who they, what they want to do is they want to go over to elderly dad and say, hey, you shouldn't drive anymore.

[Rachel]

Right?

[Van]

But he's saying I can still drive.

[Rachel]

Well, they're, they're actually putting gas in the car for him.

[Van]

Yeah, well, they, yeah, but so what's happening is like when you see, and this is, you know, to a degree, like all over the right, you know, you have the, the grow, the groiper right, who is in full rebellion against Trump and Trumpism. Even like Matt Walsh tweeted last night that the President's address was useless. And that in and of itself is sort of remarkable because it's an opinion he doesn't have to give, he's just kind of sick of it. And Trump looked feeble last night.

[Rachel]

And the messaging, again, he's still blaming things On Biden, everything like that's not working anymore. It's not working to the same level that it used to.

[Van]

But I guess what I'm saying is that that messaging. That messaging worked because Trump was strong. It's not that it worked because you think physically. No.

[Rachel]

Okay.

[Van]

He was strong politically. It's the, The. The. The messaging was never about anything. The strength of the president.

[Rachel]

Yeah.

[Van]

And the hold that he had on his movement is what made the messaging work. And I'm talking about the Democrats and their messaging. I'm talking about the fact that. That they don't know how to communicate for and to Americans about what Americans actually need on this side. We're talking about cracks in propaganda, which is.

[Rachel]

Which is what got them elected.

[Van]

It's more of an indictment of the strength of President Trump and MAGA ism than it is anything else.

[Rachel]

But that's been the driving force to get them elected, for them running the Senate and the House. That messaging, that propaganda, whatever you want to call it, you're right. It wasn't rooted in anything real.

[Van]

It hasn't been the messaging. It's been. It's been Donald Trump. So it hasn't been. Because the message. The message itself doesn't matter as much as the guy that's saying it.

[Rachel]

I, I think we're saying this. I get what you're saying. You're making a distinction between that, but it is Donald Trump and what he says and what his messaging is, is my point. But I just find it interesting because as we're watching things crumble. Got to talk about that.

[Van]

Well, yeah, we do. We, we.

[Rachel]

And we kind of do.

[Van]

But I mean, I think the. The talking about it is examining to me more so why it's happening. And it's happening for a couple of reasons. Number one, One reason why it's happening is because there are some people who believed it. Oh, yeah, yeah. Now, there are other people who are incredibly cynical when it comes to the President. He says something on Monday, that's the truth. He says something on Wednesday, that's the truth. But then there is a cohort of Republican or maga, Republican or person on the right generally, that thought that when the president said no foreign wars, that he meant no foreign wars. So they were disappointed when we bombed Iran. And they were also disappointed this week when the president is talking about going and instituting regime change in Venezuela. They actually go, what are you doing? Right. But then there are other people that continue to. To. To. To, like, eat whatever gruel he serves.

[Rachel]

Yeah.

[Van]

And this is why? That's why Marjorie Taylor King was so important.

[Rachel]

Did you watch Cash Patel's interview with Katie? Oh, you did?

[Van]

Yeah, man. Well, I watch all of the stuff. I've been watching more. I've been watching more content from the right. Far more content from the right than I do from the left.

[Rachel]

Well, I think that that's necessary.

[Van]

I've been watching way more.

[Rachel]

Did it. Did. Did you. You know, it seemed to be, you know, he did it with his girlfriend, and it seemed to be all about getting a better understanding because we care so much about Cash Patel and his girlfriend. How'd you feel after you watched it?

[Van]

I watched an interview and a conversation between two people who never fuck. They don't have sex. Cash Patel and his girlfriend.

[Rachel]

And what makes you say that? I learned that they were together. I don't know why I thought that she became his girlfriend once he got the job. I didn't realize they'd been together since January of 2023.

[Van]

Now I can look at two people and tell when they fucking. I look at people that other people. This is a TMZ skill. I look at people that other people don't know that they fucking. And I go, they fucking. But then I also can look at people and I can say they've never had sex.

[Rachel]

So you think they never had sex.

[Van]

She might have gave them a handy.

[Rachel]

So that's what you took from it.

[Van]

You ever see the movie the Master?

[Rachel]

No. No?

[Van]

Well, if you watch the Master, there's a part where there's a rather aggressive hand job that's given from Amy Adam. Rest in peace, Philip Seymour Hoffman in that movie. It's all weird. It's angry. It's like she's talking them up. He probably gets a couple of those per month. But, like, actual penis vagina intercourse, they're.

[Rachel]

Not like hitting per month.

[Van]

Cash is not like, girl, come climb on this.

[Rachel]

Well, people are upset about it.

[Van]

What's so upsetting that.

[Rachel]

The timing of the. The interview.

[Van]

Oh, yeah. Because the interview came out while the man hut still going on. The interview was likely recorded before that.

[Rachel]

Well, they wrote that at the. At the beginning. Like, right before it says it. It says. But here's the thing. This goes back to messaging. You are in the middle of trying to. Not only are you in the middle of trying to locate the shooter at Brown University, you also fucked up in this in a very similar fashion, like you did with the Charlie Kirk. There are rumors about, you know, that you are more obsessed with looking like an FBI director rather than being an effective FBI director. He is more obsessed with his girlfriend and making sure her needs and concerns are met more than he is about the American citizens. That's what's coming across. He's. He's more obsessed with, and this is all with the timing of the interview making us like his girlfriend and their relationship. Then he is concerned about making people feel safe or stopping apprehending this mass shooter or cracking down on the fact that mass shootings are even happening or continuing to happen, happen in this country. It's. It all goes back to, like I said, the messaging.

[Van]

Well, I mean, messaging, yeah, I guess. But the problem, there's a root problem there, is that he was never qualified for the job in the first place. And neither is Heck Seth, and neither is Robert F. Kennedy. And they were put in these positions more for their ideological allegiance to President Trump than the fact that they could actually do their jobs. Now, something else that we have to talk about. Part of a strongman and the vision of a strong man is to shred institutions, right? So if you are a strong man, authoritarian, if you are, dare I say, a fascist, then part of your governing style is to erode confidence in not just societal institutions, but actual governmental institutions. So you erode societal confidence in the media, right? You say the media is out to get you. You can't trust what the media says. So that way, any reporting that is done on you is a lie. We saw Pete Hexeth limit access of the press to the Pentagon, right? But then everything else, we're draining the swamp. We're getting rid of the deep state like we're getting rid of US usaid. Part of what DOGE did was to go through and gut all. All of these agencies. And part of these agencies, their job was to make sure that shit was going right. Right? Part of these agencies had inspector generals. And these inspector generals, it was their job to be independent, arbitrary arbiters of what was going on at these different places. Well, you go in and you cut the knees out of all of those places, it all comes back to the top guy, to President Trump. And what you also do is in Cash, Patel and Department of. Whatever you're doing, all this is you put incompetent people in those roles on purpose. Because when you put incompetent people in those roles, right, it once again erodes public faith in those institutions. Those institutions being weak makes the president actually stronger. You actually don't need a functioning Congress when a strong man is your leader, because the Congress only exists to rubber stamp what the president wants. You don't need a functioning Department of Justice when the president is a strong man, because the Department of Justice is only actually looking at how the president wants to run the country in terms of the rule of law. You don't need a functioning Department of Defense when the president is a strong man, because that institution only serves the whims of the president. So what ends up happening is having Cash Patel or Pete Hegseth or any of these other people in these positions. It just weakens these positions and it puts the focus back on President Trump. Now, it can be embarrassing. You could look at a situation where you have a clearly incompetent director of the FBI in his role. That can be embarrassing. But you know what Trump's going to say, he's doing a great job. And he's also going to say every other FBI before this was corrupt and they were corrupt. It's not corrupt now. And since it's not corrupt now, he's doing a good job.

[Rachel]

I don't know if I agree. I agree that. I definitely agree that the propaganda and the rhetoric being pushed out as Trump was gearing up for 2024 election was to weaken trust in these different departments for sure. And it worked. And with that, and once he had that kind of power, it worked. And he put these people in place, but in place who were incompetent for sure. But I don't know if I agree that he put them there purposefully to be incompetent, to continue to weaken those departments. I think he put them there because they of their allegiance and didn't care whether they were competent or not or how they did their job. As long as they is, he was able to control it. I feel like that was more his purpose than to show that they were weak. Because I actually think, and we're seeing this, that it's backfiring, that with these. That the incompetence that these people have in these positions, I think it makes Trump look weak. Right, because healthcare right now, you have RFK Jr firing people. The CDC, you have people walking out, they're not what they used to be. And now you're seeing an uptick in diseases that have not been around for decades. I think that makes Trump look weak and it makes RFK Jr look weak, and it makes the department look weak. I think he wanted them there, like I said, to do what he said. But at the end of the day, he wants to look strong. That looks weak. The Department of War, you're out here now. Pete Hexth has Said he's not gonna release the video that he was apparently going to release to us to show us what happened with them bombing those boats. And now he's not doing it. People are upset about that. People are upset at the possibility of going to a war. President Trump said he was the president of peace. Now he's doing the complete opposite. I feel like that makes him look bad. I think you could say the same thing about the FBI. Like, yeah, you might think it was corrupt. Okay, so you put the person in office who is supposed to do it, right? And now he's fucking up. I actually don't think that it makes him look better.

[Van]

But see, I guess the only retort to that is, like, in President Trump's first term, there was all kinds of bullshit. There were people backbiting, jumping in positions, getting out of positions. He went through a bunch of different. Like, he hired Scaramucci, he would fire Scaramucci. He like all of these people jumping in all kinds of stuff. There's one difference. The economy was good. And because the economy was good, people didn't really pay attention to the dysfunction that they saw in the president's intelligentsia because there was really no need to. This situation is different. President Trump, I think if there was any miscalculation that he made, the miscalculation was that he would be able to work his magic trick, the same magic trick that he works over in America, which is, I am this unimpeachable God of all in a place where Americans were struggling a little bit. See, they expected him to come in and get them back to the feeling that they had in 16 and 17 and 18 and 19. They thought that he was doing that when really he wasn't. They thought that he was doing that. That would be an elixir to all of this other stuff. Like, easily it. To me, none of it would matter. But people are looking around and they're at. They're actually asking for answers to a lot of different questions in their lives. And they don't think that bomb in Venezuela is the answer.

[Rachel]

Right.

[Van]

They don't think that Cash Patel is the answer. They don't think that tariffs are the answer. They're actually looking for answers. Yeah. As far as what he wants to do, though, he certainly wants every single institution that would provide any type of oversight or act in any type of independent way. He wants them weaker. He wants a weaker FBI. He wants a weaker Department of Defense. He wants a weaker Congress. He wants. He wants so much ideological capture that they would have to Be weaker. He wants all of those things to be weaker so that he can be stronger. If you wanted a strong FBI, why would you appoint somebody that went along with you lockstep in every way possible? That could not be. That's at cross purposes to having a strong FBI.

[Rachel]

I just don't think he sees it that way. Like, I think I completely agree with you. I think that he know you're giving.

[Van]

Him some credit here.

[Rachel]

No, no, no, I completely agree with you. He absolutely wanted an FBI he can control. I just think that he's so delusional and has such a big ego that he in no way thought that they would not be effective. And if they weren't, he would under.

[Van]

Him that when I say, okay, he couldn't care less if the FBI was effective. Like could not care. When I say couldn't. Couldn't care less if the FBI was effective. What he cares is that the FBI is under his thumb and, and response to his whims. He couldn't care less if the FBI was effective. He couldn't care less if the State Department was effective. He doesn't care about any of that stuff.

[Rachel]

I agree with that part.

[Van]

But because, because last thing I'll say, because part of them being effective would be checking his power.

[Rachel]

Well, I agree with what you're saying about he doesn't care at the end of the day, but what he does care is about how things make him look. And he looks bad right now. I think the Trump administration looks bad that all these things are free failing in such a grand way under you. That's what I think. And it's being reflected in how people are voting. And if we, and if that, if they, if that is built upon in 2026 with the midterms and they lose the House, which a lot of people think that that's going to happen, it makes him look bad. Look at right now, he is backing people in elections and they're losing it.

[Van]

Look, the things always happen now.

[Rachel]

The things that, that are happening, that's always happening. Okay, it has happened, but it's happening in a bigger. It's not happening in a bigger way.

[Van]

It, it, to me, it has happened. So to me, once again, what this is more about, in my opinion, the Republicans are losing ground to me for the same reason that the Democrats lost ground is that on both sides of the political aisle right now, there seems to be this belief in party and this allegiance to party that is not connecting with Americans. It's not connecting with Americans like there is we. There's something that's happening right now because of Trumpism. The factions are fighting for what they believe to be is the existential future of the country. You ever see, like, a movie scene where two parents are fighting and they're going back and forth? I can't believe you. You tell you're terrible. You blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, and fuck you and blah, blah, blah. And then there's a kid that's, like, holding, like, a stuffed animal. Stuffed animal behind, and they're looking at this. That's the Democrats and Republicans, and the kid is us. Like, we're the kid. We're watching them do like that. Nobody's feeding us. Dinner's not being served. Mom and dad or whoever they are fighting, they're going at each other, right? And we're looking at it like this, but there seems to be an inability for anyone to stop for a second and turn around and go, let me fight. And also make sure that dinner is on the table and that breakfast will be served and that you get to bed and get told your bedtime story tonight. So when. So when. When I look at everything that's happening. Yeah. A lot of this stuff is failing, and it becomes something to criticize the Trump regime for. But the Trump regime, the Trump administration, even in their first term, was highly dysfunctional. Like, highly dysfunctional. This level of dysfunction is different because you got some sore thumbs here. But last thing. This is actually the last thing I'll say to your point. To your point. He did, in his first term, appoint people that were at least a little bit more competent.

[Rachel]

Yeah. There wasn't as much pushback from the Senate when it came to like.

[Van]

And, Rachel, he didn't like it. I'm trying to tell you, Rachel, he appointed people in his first term that pushed back against and that had been veterans at their jobs. And he learned. The lesson that he learned was that in order for him to be who he was, he did not need those types of people. He needed loyalists, and he needed those institutions a little bit more.

[Rachel]

But I'm agreeing with you. I agree that he appointed this time people who he didn't care how competent they were. What I'm saying is now that it is making him look bad because he's directly tied to it, and people are souring on these people and the effects of the things that they're doing. That's what I don't think he signed up for.

[Van]

Maybe. Maybe. I think he likes it. I think he likes the fact that all these things. All right, look, let me tell you Guys, something. We got a lot of news out of Trump White House this week. I just want to, I'm going to go off script for a second here. And this is even for a White House that loves to make news, this was a lot. I just want to let you guys know everything that came out of the Trump White House this week. All the news that came out of the White House war with Venezuela. We got insulting presidential plaques in the White House. Ok? Trump talking to Alan Dershowitz about the actual legal basis of a third term. Dan Bongino, Left, right, he should leave and go straight to Turkey as a kid. You gotta fix that, Dan. Susie Wiles, the piece that came out in Vanity Fair, the Trump administration announcing that they were actually looking into denaturalizing American citizens. A whole unasked for address, an address out of nowhere, like a meandering, weird address.

[Rachel]

They expanded the countries that they plan on banning, right? All of this stuff that happened to.

[Van]

Now let me ask you guys a question. For a White House that loves to make news, that loves to flood the zone, this week in particular was an unprecedented zone flooding. I mean, they flooded that motherfucker. All right. Why do y' all think that happened?

[Rachel]

Well, that's what Aoc said say to the people. Well, she says that we're gonna. They're going to release some of the. Not all of it, but. Or is it all of it, The Epstein file by law. On Friday.

[Van]

By law. According to tomorrow, the law that was passed December 19, which is this Friday, they have to start releasing the Epstein file stuff. If they do not, Thomas Massie said it, it's on one of the shows. He said, look, they can't not release the Epstein files. Well, the law passed would say if they had 30 days to get them out, the 19th is the deadline we got to get the Epstein files. So Trump is doing everything that he can to make you guys forget that this week is a week that could be very consequential for him where we might see some stuff. So look, I want you to do me a favor. I'm going to ask you this. Rate in, in your opinion on Epstein file distractions from 1 to 10, which Story has been the best in terms of distraction from the Epstein files?

[Rachel]

Okay, well, to be very honest, it started last week and obviously they didn't plan this, but the shootings were a huge distraction.

[Van]

Yeah, but.

[Rachel]

And that, that's something that obviously.

[Van]

What are you trying to say?

[Rachel]

No, I'm not trying to stop. Don't be a conspiracy theor. I'm not saying that I'll get you.

[Van]

On with Candace Owens.

[Rachel]

I'm not trying to say that. But what I am saying is the fact that that happened and then people are talking, of course, again about gun control and gun violence and how the administrator we did it, the administration not doing anything. That's a dist. The fact that the FBI, we just talked about it. The shooter still at large we're talking about. I mean, for all we know, Cash Patel did this interview not because he wanted everybody to see him in a different light. It's a total distraction. So many people are upset, to be honest. You have to really look to see about to remember that the Epstein files were going to be because there was so much other stuff, I would have said that that was the top. But if I had to pick one of the stories that they're doing.

[Van]

Dan leaving Nah, it's not the one.

[Rachel]

That's not the one for you.

[Van]

It's the war, man. The war is the best one. I'll tell you something, man, tried and true with American presidents. If you want to get people off what you're doing at home, bomb some brown people somewhere else. There's not a better distraction for an American president then bombing brown people to get the focus off of himself. It's happened before. We've seen a lot of it, right? You bomb some brown people. You bomb them. Clinton, I'll give Clinton credit because Clinton bombed brown people and he bombed some white people as well. That's what you got to look at with Bill. Bill was the type of president that goes, sure, I'll bomb Iraq in 1998 because things aren't going so well. But he'll also bomb Kosovo. So he'll also do that like Reagan will do Grenada. You know, they'll kill some people in order to get the focus off of them. You know, LBJ will do the whole Vietnam thing, Nixon will do like there's there's a long tried and true history in America of presidents going, it's getting too hot here for me. Who Brown in another part of the world has to die. And that is definitely part of the calculus to me with Donald Trump and Venezuela. I'm not saying that we haven't been beating the drum on Venezuela for a long time.

[Rachel]

Right?

[Van]

We have. But I'm telling you right now to ramp up the pressure campaign on Venezuela this week and say this week we are having a war and we're going to get into what's probably going to be a pretty intense back and forth, a pretty intense struggle With Venezuela going forward, that. That is. Look over here. Cause shit ain't going right at home. And we've been doing that for a long time.

[Rachel]

In America, I would say it's the FBI drama, but I hear you.

[Van]

The FBI drama cannot compare to a war, man. Come on, Rachel. War is war.

[Rachel]

I hear you, but we haven't gone yet. I know he's talking about it, but I mean, we.

[Van]

I mean, shit.

[Rachel]

I mean, I'm not saying we haven't done stuff. I'm just saying they gotta put.

[Van]

They. They gotta put their foot in it now. Put that foot in that war. You know what I'm saying? You can't have war. You can't come out here and say you can't half step with the war when you are gonna launch a regime change. War to distract people. You gotta go all in.

[Rachel]

Can I ask you a question? And do you think that the American people, like, think middle America, do you think they're paying attention to that for a distraction? Or do you think they're paying attention to the FBI st story?

[Van]

Man, Once we get. Let me tell you something about Americans. There's two things we love. The super bowl and blowing up. Once we start blowing up. Once it's about the troops and taking care of the troops and our men and women, brave men and women in uniform. Once it's about strategic teachery, like President George W. Bush, a Texan, said. Once it's about strategy and mission accomplished. Once it's about boats and planes and boom, bam, and we got in there. There. It is very difficult for us to pay attention to anything else. Because think about what else is going to be talked about. The framing around this war. They're going to be people that are saying this is World War iii. There are going to be people that are saying we are getting out a terrible, crazy, narco, terrorist, leftist regime that we should have dealt with a long time ago. There are people that are going to. Exxon is going to be into this. Like, all of the oil companies are going to be like, oh, my God, we get the oil reserves. There's going to. Everyone is going to do their best propaganda dance in this situation right now is war, baby. Because look, look, I can tell you one thing, Rachel. We might not know how to teach kids how to read anymore. Literacy down, bombs up. We can still blow shit up. We still can.

[Rachel]

War sounds like a song.

[Van]

We can get war popping. And once we do, this is us doing what we good at. This is Chris Brown dancing. This is Michael Jackson dancing. America and war Rachel, you got to get on board.

[Rachel]

Okay.

[Van]

You know, But we'll see. We'll see if. Cause what did I say before? You guys didn't like when I said it. We didn't like what said this before. If you walked into a house and you know that there was a child being abused in the bedroom, what could they do in the living room to make you not think about it? Is there anything, you know, that there's a child being abused in the bedroom, what could they do in the living room to make you change your mind about it? There shouldn't be anything.

[Rachel]

Nothing.

[Van]

So we'll see when the Epstein files come out. We're already getting some trickles of stuff like that. I saw Woody Allen with Epstein. Did you see that picture?

[Rachel]

Yeah, yeah, I saw that. We're getting some pictures. He wasn't the only. Got some Bill pictures.

[Van]

Bill's there. Clinton is there somebody else. You know what? Don't. When the Epstein files come out, if one of your faves is in there, just. They gonna be in there. They're gonna be in there. It's gonna be people that you like in there.

[Rachel]

Are you excited?

[Van]

I'm not necessarily excited because I'm pretty resolute about everything that's happening, and there seems to be. It seems to go pretty deep. But I am interested in the response to what Congress releases and how it will be spun.

[Rachel]

Okay.

[Van]

Yeah, all right, whatever. It's a robust discussion of Trump and Trumpism and all.

[Rachel]

There's a lot going on to your point.

[Van]

A lot you care about Vivek Ramaswamy, him bitching on in the New York Times.

[Rachel]

We can move past it.

[Van]

Yeah, I don't give a about it.

[Rachel]

I mean, it's funny to me.

[Van]

It is.

[Rachel]

If anything, it's funny somehow. He keeps thinking he's different. He still doesn't get it, but keep going.

[Van]

Yeah. It is what it is. You guys go read the New York Times. Ramaswamy went on there and he was.

[Rachel]

Like, if you just want a good laugh. Yeah. He wants people to believe in the American dream. Upset about identity politics from the left. But now the right's doing it, which it's like they doing it.

[Van]

It's so funny to all. To. To all the brown people out there on the right, however brown you may be, in whatever way that you might be brown, just know that you're going to be safer with us. I'm telling you right now, you're going to be safer with us. You gonna be safer with us. They don't want to be but that's cool. I'm not saying that you. I'm not so sure we want y', all, but you're gonna be safer with us because what's bubbling on the right right now, they not fucking with y'.

[Rachel]

All. This is a plea. Like, Vivek, It's a disease. He's suffering from this disease. Revek is like. This is a plea, like, please, I'm. I'm with you. I believe in the American dream. I was born in Cincinnati. Like, he's begging. But it's like they've been working on this erasure for a long time stuff now. It's affecting him. He's on the outside. I don't. We don't want.

[Van]

No, you don't want Vivek.

[Rachel]

I don't want Vivek.

[Van]

You don't want to be on your side. No, you don't want him to be on. What if he came to your side, though? You would have to want him. If he came to your side. If he came to you.

[Rachel]

I need to hear it. He's got to make a case.

[Van]

What would he have to do?

[Rachel]

That's a question for him. No, it's not like. I mean, obviously he's going to have to take some responsibility and admit I'm going to need to believe that, you know, you up and. And I need to know the ways in which you did it, why you did it. I need you to denounce it, because that's what it is almost right. It's like a. We talk about it being a cult. I need you to denounce your participation in the cult. That's what you have to do.

[Van]

I have an idea.

[Rachel]

Let's do it.

[Van]

What if Vivek pledge Q. I'd be.

[Rachel]

So mad at Omega Sci Fi.

[Van]

Just wait a second, though. Before. Before you just wait a second. Just wait a second. So you don't know of anything that Vivette could do right now? Vivek is clearly getting his ass kicked. They have made new slurs for brown people on the right. I never even heard the slurs before. I don't even know what some of this is. I'm hearing the slurs. If you go back and you read the piece, Vivek puts him in quotes. He does.

[Rachel]

He does.

[Van]

And it was slightly funny, but wasn't funny that he's being called that. It was funny that you could tell how it emotionally affected him.

[Rachel]

Yes, yes, he's on the outside.

[Van]

But look, Vivek pledging Q. Ok, the brothers of Omega Psi Phi, that really could be like a drop squad kind of situation for him.

[Rachel]

Why?

[Van]

Because think about what you got to go through.

[Rachel]

What do you know about it? Here we go.

[Van]

Can I just give you what I know, Rachel? Shout out A like is going to.

[Rachel]

Be mad at you that you link them with Vivek, but go ahead.

[Van]

Is your. This is your brothers, though.

[Rachel]

These are my brothers.

[Van]

Okay, These are your brothers.

[Rachel]

Okay.

[Van]

So I'm giving you proximity here because it's your decision. You get to decide whether or not if Vivek were to play its Q. Okay, He. Number one, I'm assuming. I've heard. I don't know this for sure. I've heard that there is some hazing involved, maybe. I've heard there's some hazing involved. Number one, so a little bit of pain. Number two, they gotta. You gotta pay. Okay, so there's a little bit of bread. Number three, you gotta do the knowledge. Okay? So if you've a vet, Vivette gotta sit down. He gotta learn the knowledge. He gotta learn about black history. And then there's. There's another one. And this is gonna sound crazy, but come with me on this. He got to learn the dances and. Wait a second. That's important. It's important learning the dances. Because think about seeing Vivek out there and then like, you know, he. He learns the dances. Brotherhood, camaraderie. Vivek in the gold boots, he got the purple shirt on. He got the thing. He going that if he made it to the end of that process, I would be like, you know what? You cool? If he made it to the end of that process after he denounces.

[Rachel]

Okay, he has to denounce.

[Van]

He has to denounce. But then he has to pledge Q. Maybe not just Q. Maybe Vivek has to go through the intake process of all the Divine Nine fraternities over and over and over and over and over again. If he, if he became Q, would you accept him?

[Rachel]

No. And the reason being is I don't trust him. This man is basically, through this opinion that he wrote in the New York Times, is on his hands and knees begging for acceptance to a party that continues to tell you they don't want you in policy in their administration. They kicked you out in every single way. You don't fit their narrative. It's always been about identity politics. We've seen the erasure that they're doing in this, in this country through so many ways. Vivek, they don't want you. So now I'm supposed to believe. Oh, because you tried everything that you could possibly do to be accepted by them and they said no. Now you want to come over here with us? Like we've talked about this. That's a problem within our community. Sometimes we're too accepting. We gotta be like, no, we gotta. This is the gatekeeping. This is a gatekeeping situation. First off, I wouldn't trust Vivek. So that's why it would be no. But two, we gotta just accepting you because you tried everything else and now you're gonna stop settle for us because that's what it would be. No. So being Omega Sci Fi, it's about you want this in your heart, in your soul.

[Van]

Oh my God.

[Rachel]

This is something you don't just do this.

[Van]

Okay, so this is what I'll say.

[Rachel]

That's why not everybody's accepted.

[Van]

So two things and we'll talk about this because this is a natural segue to the next conversation we're having. Two things. It is definitely true. VC will. VCs Vivek's entire worldview for as long as we've known who he is. And even before that, he looks at the world a specific way. So Vivek's not defecting. There is a conversation to be had about people who become disenchanted with the right and the trajectory of the right and then what to do with them. What happens now we can all say, hey fuck you, we don't trust you. Or you could actually try to build political and cultural bridges and take the country over because. Right, so then the reality is that the. There's only one time where gatekeeping doesn't make sense and that's politics.

[Rachel]

Listen, I believe in the bridge, but the. But the bridge is not through Omega Sci Fi. Don't do that to us.

[Van]

All right, well then.

[Rachel]

And it should be noted in this article that he's still doing this. It's more about his disgust and disdain for the groipers and just the fact that the. The conservatives won't specifically call them out. He is in no way upset with conservatives as a whole. It's a sector of them.

[Van]

You guys have to pay attention right now with what's going on in terms of the right versus the far right. It is to me fascinating. Rated E for everyone. Includes in game purchases. Includes random Items. EA Sports FC 26 is here. Play your way this holiday season with an overhauled gameplay experience. Powered by community feedback. Enjoy festive upgrades in Ultimate Team with winter wildcards. Take on holiday themed challenges and manage your career like navigating the busy Christmas Period. And team up with friends and clubs with new tournaments and live events. The club is yours. Give the gift of football with EA Sports FC 26.

[Rachel]

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[Van]

This was a topic that you really wanted to do.

[Rachel]

Well, it's. It was trending on Threads. Shout out to Threads. Are you on Threads?

[Van]

Fuck no.

[Rachel]

I see your stuff on Threads. You are on Threads.

[Van]

That's cause I post the shit. I see and they post it to Threads. That's cause I post the shit and they post it to Threads automatically.

[Rachel]

Fuck Threads. Like it's Twitter.

[Van]

I've never in. I've never in life posted something purposefully on Threads.

[Rachel]

Okay, so because you're just on Twitter promoting Twitter, that's fine.

[Van]

That's whatever.

[Rachel]

A lot of people have left Twitter for better alternatives for what? People are talking on threads, though. You actually should tap into threads. People are.

[Van]

Who's paying you?

[Rachel]

Are y' all on Threads?

[Van]

Ain't nobody using no motherfucking.

[Rachel]

Oh, my God. Actually, wait, Jay, did you just say you just got on? I just got on. Report back to me on the next podcast and tell me if there aren't good conversations going on. I'm just saying I haven't. I didn't use it for a long time and then I started and I was like, actually, I like it better over here because I'm not a good. You know, I'm not good on Twitter. I'm not good.

[Van]

But I like to fight.

[Rachel]

There's too much.

[Van]

That's why I'm on Twitter. I like to fight.

[Rachel]

All right, well then that's. You stay over there. The reason this topic was interesting to me because you. Well, one higher learning got dragged into it. So you. Wait, Donna, you introduce it. I'm sorry.

[Van]

No, you're good.

[Donnie]

YouTuber Keith Edwards posted a clip from higher learning on Threads. It was a snippet from our conversation on Jasmine Crockett's announcement of her campaign for Senate in Texas. The quote to his post was a quote of Van that said, it is one of the more tone deaf things I've seen a politician do in a very long time. And I saw that Rachel posted right under that.

[Van]

That.

[Donnie]

That was completely taken out of context. And yeah.

[Rachel]

I mean, no, it wasn't for how he used it. It was.

[Van]

No, not to me.

[Rachel]

Okay. Okay. Well, excuse me.

[Van]

How did. How did he. Okay, okay, before I say that. How did he use it? Because I saw the clip. But I mean.

[Rachel]

So you did say that. Yeah, but the purpose. So this is the thing. And I'm sorry to cut you off, Donnie, because I know that you were rolling that out, but Keith Edwards has been. He's a Democrat. That's how he identifies.

[Van]

Do we know who Keith Edwards.

[Rachel]

He's a YouTuber. His bait. The basis of his. His. I think he will not podcast. I'm not sure if he has that. But the basis of his YouTube channel is about. It's politics, it's current affairs. He's constantly on social media and on YouTube promoting or politics and his views. And he's a Democrat. Right. So he has been recently trending on threads because of how he has been handling the announcement of Jasmine Crockett saying that she was now going to run for the Senate seat in Texas and versus how he has been talking about it with James Talarico, who she is going to. They're going to go against each other in the primary in March, which we have talked about here on Higher Learning. If you. So he used. What we're talking about is immediately after Higher Learning, he used a clip from Van where Van said it is one of the more. When he was talking about Jasmine Crockett and her announcement, he said it is one of the more tone deaf things I've seen a politician do in a very long time. You said that. That's a quote. He plays the video. It's not that he misquoted you. It's the context, I believe in which he put it in, which is why I wrote underneath it about. You're using this in the wrong way. Because if you look at.

[Donnie]

And.

[Rachel]

And I should say the reason he's trending is because a lot of black people are saying Keith Edwards. They're calling him racist, which is something I do not agree with. But they're saying that Keith Edwards is really showing who he is. And they're basically having this conversation back and forth about white liberals, particularly white men in this situation and how they speak on black politicians or black women. And Keith Edwards defense is. And he said it. He put out a video. Actually, Donnie, I think you have it right.

[Donnie]

I do. Here it is. Hi. I've been getting a lot of these comments and so I, I could write something, but what would happen is after I Write it. So I'm just going to take one word from what I said and what I wrote and take it out of context. And so I think it's so much easier for me to respond right here. And I don't know, maybe this will be helpful. But one, yes, I am a white guy. I am a white guy. I can't control it. I was born this way and it's something I can't control. Okay? I have an opinion about politics. It's what I do for a living. Now, are you saying that I cannot have an opinion about a candidate who is a different race or gender than me, and if I do, and it's critical, it's inherently racist? Because I think what you all are trying to do is just silence any opposition rather than, I don't know, just taking me at my ideas or at my criticisms. Instead, you're saying, oh, he's a white guy and he's being misogynistic or racist. I don't think that's a great way to build a coalition. I also think it's a great way to build a strong and healthy party. I did everything in my power to get Kamala Harris elected last year. That is what I dedicated my year two Last year I wept when she became the nominee and I wept when she lost. I loved that woman. Meeting her, I got to meet her for literally 10 seconds at the Christmas party last year was. Was truly just, I'm not going to say life changing experience, but it was something that I very much valued. Does that sound like someone who's racist to you? No, of course not. So please stop doing that. Stop. Stop calling people racist because they have a different opinion on politics than you.

[Rachel]

Okay, so the reason I say he used your. I do agree with him. I don't think that we should jump to calling somebody racist. I would not say from what I've seen with Keith Edwards, that he's racist. What people are saying is they believe that he has internalized racism for how he talks about Jasmine Crockett versus James Talarico. He uses the example of Kamala Harris there and how he wept and how supportive he was of Kamala Harris. She was going against Donald Trump. I think emphatically, somebody who has a platform like Keith Edwards and speaks in the ways that he does, he is extremely anti Trump. It's not that he is necessarily aligning himself with Kamala Harris as a black woman. It's that he's very against Trump and he wanted to fight against the Trump regime when it comes to what and this is what people are saying, a white man versus a black woman. The rhetoric that you're putting out, particularly on threads, is very anti Jasmine. You're critiquing her in a way where you. There is no criticism to James Talarico. And the reason I say he took your thing out of context was instead of as a whole saying you were criticizing her announcement, you were criticizing the fact that it seemed tone deaf. And once again, it plays into the messaging from the Democrats. He, I believe, was using it as another knock against Jasmine when that's not what the whole conversation that we had on higher learning. He used it to promote his belief that Jasmine is one way and James Talarico is another. So if you scroll down his threads, he goes, this is. These are certain ways he talks about James Talarico. James Talarico is showing what it means to actually run a campaign about meeting voters where they are in persuading them versus Jasmine Crockett says he does the thing. We're done says, quote, we done picking cotton as justification for pro immigration policies. He hasn't said, if I continue to scroll down because I'm not going to do every single thing. He hasn't said anything positive about this is the complaint and why he's trending, why black people are all. In his comments. He hasn't said a positive thing about Jasmine Crockett. Even when he put up her announcement, it was like she did this by accident. She wrote this out. She wasn't supposed to. Everything he's done about James Talarico has been positive. There hasn't been any talk about who he's receiving money from, maybe a lack of experience. He's not being fair in how he's presenting both of them to the public rather than. It seems like he's very anti Jasmine and people are saying, why, why aren't you putting this out in a fair way? It seems like you're one versus the other. But that's not racism. I wouldn't, I would not categorize that as calling him a racist. I do, I do agree with him that that's not the way to go about it.

[Van]

Okay, so a little bit more on this guy. He's a YouTuber, but he's also a political strategist. He worked for Michael Bloomberg in 2020. He was the appointed the director of communications for the Lincoln Project. He worked for John Ossoff in his campaign in Georgia in 2020. He was a communications director for Nikki Freed's gubernatorial campaign. And you know, he's done all Kinds of stuff. This is an interesting conversation to me for a couple of reasons. All right, let's. Let's put him to the side. Who did higher learning basically Support in the 2024 New York mayoral election?

[Rachel]

Mamdani.

[Van]

Okay. Mamdani ran against, in a primary, Andrew Cuomo. How many positive things do we have to say about Andrew Cuomo?

[Rachel]

I mean, zero. Are we comparing Andrew Cuomo to Jasmine Crockett? I think it's. That's. That's. That's. It's apples to oranges, but go ahead.

[Van]

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

[Rachel]

Okay.

[Van]

It's. Let me explain to you what I'm talking about.

[Rachel]

Okay.

[Van]

I'm not comparing Jasmine Crockett to.

[Rachel]

Okay, well, we didn't have anything positive to say about Andrew Cuomo.

[Van]

That's because of the way we look at it. It's because of our specific political outlook. Our specific political outlook means that as people who have a platform, we looked at one candidate and we supported that candidate. And that candidate was the person that we propped up. Andrew Cuomo for all of the things that he had done wrong for whatever reasons, that he was politically a pariah to us, had a whole bunch of people who supported him, who supported Andrew Cuomo. We not only looked at Andrew Cuomo in a way, we looked at the people that supported Andrew Cuomo in a way. So what I'm saying is, for us, for this podcast, there was no impetus for us to cover those two candidates in exactly the same way, for whatever reason, whatever separates candidates for whatever. We had one guy that we supported and one person that we did not like, Right? So there is no reason to expect from someone who is giving their political opinion an equal thrust to the way they cover two candidates in a primary. There's no reason to expect that if he likes James Talarico and James Talarico is the guy that he is supporting. Maybe he's been on James Talarico for a long time. Maybe he's been with James Talarico. Maybe he believes in James Talarico. Maybe he doesn't like Jasmine Crockett. I have no issue with that. Now, what I have an issue with when people criticize Jasmine Crockett is Jasmine Crockett has been criticized for her intelligence by Donald Trump. Jasmine Crockett has been scapegoated and made the entire Democratic Party. The whole animus of the Democratic Party has been put on one woman's shoulder. All of that stuff is specific to me in who Jasmine Crockett is. She has been Used. She's been called a Shanika Laquanda or whatever. She's been called ghetto. She's been called low class. She's been called all types of tropes and insults that are specifically directed towards black women. Anytime that happens to Jasmine Crockett or any black lady that's standing in a gap like that, they will have an ally in me. However, I don't know. I watched the 17 minute video of the guy where he explained the entire thing on YouTube. I don't know. That is racist for him not to cover these two people in this primary the same. Could we ask. Could we ask the question about, is there something with him that makes him like James Talarico more? That's a question we gotta ask in every situation, right? All the time. But it's a question that's asked more in a philosophical way than it is in a direct way. If he has before to me, insulted, minimized. I heard Sagar from Breaking Points actually say that he thought Jasmine Crockett was dumb and Crystal had to correct him. Crystal had to be like, he's like, she's dumb. I've never heard anything. And Crystal had to come in and be like, she's not dumb. She said when people say stuff like.

[Rachel]

That, yeah, that to me internalized like.

[Van]

That to me goes, well, what makes Jasmine Crockett dumb? Why would you use low iq, low class, ghetto or any of those things? Those are the tropes. But if he's analyzing a race and he likes one candidate and he doesn't like the other candidate, or he likes one candidate more, or he thinks one candidate in the, in the, in the, in the video that he put out on YouTube, he was using data in the way that he saw it to back that up. I have absolutely no problem with that. Like zero problem with it.

[Rachel]

Again, I agree with you. I think when people jump to scream racism without necessarily backing it up, I think that it takes away from the argument that you're trying to make. And I think what people are trying to say here is one, I don't agree with the Cuomo comparison because it's not just policies. There's a moral issue there. And when you, if you're comparing Jasmine and James there, ha. That hasn't really been a.

[Van]

You're not, you're not like the Cuomo thing. Hold on for a second. We could do that with any race. There have been races, like in primaries all over the place where we've supported a candidate and not supporting another candidate. We've chosen candidates if it's. If it's Karen Bass versus Rick Caruso, there could be all kinds of whatever it is. Like who. Whomever it is. If it's. If it's Wesley Bell versus Cori Bush. Like who. Who. Whatever. The reason is.

[Rachel]

My point being is that you're right. Of course, you can do that with anybody. I think sometimes it's easier in certain races to do that than in others. In this one, these are two people who are going against each other in a primary. Two bright young stars. There really isn't that much, because we talked about it maybe, of a difference in policy there. Right. So what people. And this is why I say, to go back to my original point of when people are so quick to say racism, sometimes you lose the argument that you're trying to make. What people are trying to say here is that you're a person who reports on what's going on. You're reporting on this primary that's coming up in Texas because it is a big deal. So many eyes are watching on it for who's running against each other and the implications of it, of who's going to face the Republican when it comes to. And really what's going to happen in the Republican race as well, of who's going to face off against each other in the midterms. You're following it. You're reporting on it. You're choosing to report a certain way on it, which is what is making people say.

[Van]

Huh?

[Rachel]

That's what's happening. So everything that's.

[Van]

He's an opinion guy.

[Rachel]

Okay. But he reports in various ways. This. I'm just telling you what people are saying.

[Van]

Yeah.

[Rachel]

What people are seeing is every time you report James, it's one way. Every time you report Jasmine, it's another way. And there. And why can't you say without? Without. Because he hasn't said, hey, I'm for James. He hasn't said, hey, I'm against or for Jasmine. But the. But the rhetoric you continue to push out on your page for James versus Jasmine, it's making people say, well, why can't you say one, Put out one story that Jasmine, like, what's your. What's the animus that. Or the. The thing that you're against Jasmine, it's making people ask that question. And I think that the reason I would rather have him answer that, which is why I would love for him to come on this podcast. Rather than say, hey, you're a racist because of what you're putting out, I would question, why are you doing this. Why aren't you putting out this video? Why didn't you put Jasmine's video where she did her full announcement? Why are you only putting up the positive of James Talarico? Why aren't you putting up some of the other stuff people are saying about James? Those are questions people are asking and then they're jumping to saying racism, which I don't agree with. The question I would say is why are you doing it?

[Van]

So this is. And I'll come back to this and then I'll ask a.

[Rachel]

When there's not a huge, a stark contrast between the two other than the way they look, which is what people are jumping.

[Van]

There's not a stark contrast between the two for you? For him. I watched the video where he went throughout the video and he said James Talarico is a better candidate to win a general election in Texas. And he used one data point. I'm not sure if this is a catch all data point or if I totally agree with it, but he used the data point that said amongst people that are outside of the, the, the, the left bubble, 49 of them said that they would never vote for jasmine crockett, while 40 of them said that they would never vote for James Talarico or something like that. So he said there's a nine point difference in people who would consider voting for James Talarico in a general election in Texas and people who would not vote for Jasmine Crockett. I don't know that that data point is that reliable. I don't, I don't know that there's any way to say that he can perform in the general election better than Jasmine Crockett can. I don't. But I do think that particularly for our podcast or other places like this, if we're talking about the way CNN covers them, if we're talking about the way Fox or any of the other places whose job it is to be impartial cover these people, that's one thing. But here on this podcast and on other podcasts that deal with politics, we pick winners and we tell people who we think they should be voting for. And we do that for myriad reasons, and we have done it. And like, to me, the question actually comes down to can a white person critique a black woman? And the reason why I say black woman is because if I look on this pod, Wesley Bell, we've kicked his ass. Van Jones, we've kicked his ass. Hakeem Jeffries, we've kicked his ass. Stephen A. Smith, somebody who purports to be on the left, we've kicked his ass. We've kicked these people's asses. We've told people that Hakeem Jeffries is a weak leader and is a corporate centrist Democrat. And we've called for a primary of Kim Jeffries. We've said that Van Jones doesn't have a backbone when he is making critiques from his. His seat at cnn. We have criticized these men very deeply and directly in all kinds of ways. We've called into question on this podcast the. Whether or not Stephen A. Smith has a grasp of the things that he's saying, like, indirectly called him dumb. Like, indirectly, we have. And what I'm saying is that, like, in the realm of politics, all of that criticism is fair to me because we're essentially talking about things that have a direct, direct effect on people's lives. And if you are a politician and you are jumping into the realm of. Of politics, it is okay for people not to like your personality. It is okay for people not to like your politics. And so I have not seen. Now I think this dude is pussy. And I'll tell you why I think he's pussy. Straight up. Keith, you a pussy? I'll tell you why I think you're a pussy. We reached out for Keith to come on the podcast. Keith said. Keith's people came back and said, hey, Keith can't make it today. Today Rachel is. Rachel wants to talk to Keith. So Rachel had the idea. I'm just gonna tell you what we did. Rachel said, hey, reach back out and say, we can do it Monday or we can do it some point in the future.

[Rachel]

We record Mondays and Tuesdays. Let us know when you're available.

[Van]

Let us know when you're available. We put that out to Keith's people. Keith's people came back and said, we don't know when you're gonna be free. All right?

[Rachel]

So to me, they made it seem like it was the holidays. I'm sure he's going to put out a lot of content between now, right, and. And January 1st.

[Van]

Now, to me, I'll tell you, the way I look at this, the way I look at this is the same way, the same thing that I. That I. The same way I look at it with Graham Platner or with these other people, black people got a problem with. You gotta be willing to talk to black people. Like, you gotta be able be willing to have a conversation with them, right? And so I look at it like this. But, like, I guess I go back to my question, like, is there A separate set of rules.

[Rachel]

No, it's very simple to me, which is why I would love to ask him this question. Nobody is saying you can't critique. My question is, I would wonder why, as you continue to put out, I get the video that he put out and he says that this person's a better candidate. To be fair, we don't always tell people who we vote for. Like, we were very, we're very much so anti Trump and we're like, we're supporting anything that's against him. But when it comes to this specific race, I haven't said Jasmine or James. Neither of you. We said James first when James was the only Democrat who was running. Now he's being primary. I haven't said which one. We talk about both sides. When we talked about the race last week, we talked about pros and cons for both. We talked about the way Jasmine has aligned herself in certain ways, positive and negative. Did the same thing for James about who they're receiving money from, even though they're saying this or this. We talked about lack of experience versus experience. We talked about presenting as a national Democrat versus a Texas Democrat. We talked about messaging and how that, who there's, how they're speaking to people and how that resonates. We talked about all of that in an all around way. And I think the question people have for him, particularly with this, and I, and I, and I denounce the whole racism part of it is why are you only showing Jasmine one way and only showing James one way, like, fine, put out the video, but there's a way to critique somebody but then also be like, well, this is also what Jasmine stands for, or this is what James stands for and this is where he lacks it. In certain places you can still do your numbers and say, but James would win in a general election, that's fine. But when you're offering a critique, it's usually it's one sided. If it's just negative, it's one sided. If it's just positive. When you're offering your critique, there should be an overall critique of it to where you're presenting both sides. And then you can conclude, this is why I think this person is this. I think that's what people are asking for him. Rather than, oh, here's another post of Jasmine about what she said, that she doesn't want these type of voters. This is what she said about immigrants. This is what she said. That's all I'm saying. So he is in his right to do it. How he Wants to. People are also in their right to question. They definitely question. That's all I'm saying.

[Van]

They definitely can't question. I have no problem with anybody questioning whether or not something is based in race, particularly when you have something like this and you have a black woman and go, no, no problem. But I will. I'm gonna go to two. I'm gonna make two other points. One point is that, like, he's actually sort of made his case about why he's clearly on James Talarico's side of this. He's actually kind of made that case. He's talked about it. He's talked about a couple of different ways. He probably was already on James Talarico. And then Jasmine Crocker entered the race late. So he probably looks at her as an obstacle to what he thought was a chance to win Texas. And when you go and watch his video, he says, we can win Texas with the right candidate. And for whatever reason, he doesn't think that Jasmine Crockett is the right candidate. That is clear. The question is whether or not that in and of itself is racist. Okay.

[Rachel]

Yeah.

[Van]

So. So. So. And so to me, I'll go back to something else. The reason why I bring us up is, like, we're. When we're discussing this stuff, they're not just political determinations that we make. They're also personality determinations that we make and also determinations about how people have treated people and the things that they've done and all that kind of as well. Right. And all of that stuff is fair to me. I haven't seen anything wrong with his critique. I've also seen other people like Jolly Good Ginger. Do you guys know who Jolly Good Ginger is?

[Rachel]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Van]

Jolly Good Ginger got his ass kicked. And why did he get his ass kicked? He got his ass kicked because he dared to criticize Jasmine Crockett's stance on Israel. On Israel. And I understand. But if we are willing right now, when we're having these conversations about political leadership, if we are willing to be uncritical, we are doing ourselves a disservice. I have all the belief in the world for Congresswoman Crockett, and I think the way she's been treated has been terribly unfair. I cannot imagine what she has been, what she has gone through from having a president of the United States scapegoat her that way. And I think that scapegoating was done in a large part because she is a black woman. If I disagree with Congresswoman Crockett on any issue that is as important as the Israel issue or anything else, there's got to be freedom to discuss that. And, and with, and with Jolly. Jolly had to post some shit. And I'm not saying that any of these people in and of themselves are free from criticism themselves. You. We must also be able to criticize the criticizers. But you literally just have to post something going, hey, just to let y' all know, like, I'm a person and I got a family and I got a wife and just kicking my ass because I said I do not like this woman's stance. Excuse me, this congresswoman's stance on Israel. If that's the way we doing it, that's fine. But then the question is, is it okay not for a white person, for a person at all to be critical of a black lady?

[Rachel]

Of course. Of course it is. Of course it is. I just want to say this last point. What I do think is a little dangerous about what Keith Edwards is doing is if your biggest concern is about turning Texas blue or that seat blue, then sometimes I believe you should be critical and hold people accountable. I just believe it should be more well rounded. Unless it's like, again, a moral issue where, like, this person has been accused of sexually assaulting people, which is why I push back on the Cuomo. I get it. We don't have to reiterate. We don't have to rehash that again.

[Van]

I get a million races.

[Rachel]

I don't want to rehash that again. But, like, it's just so obvious. And it's not just policy, it's moral. Where this, to me, isn't as much like we both agree, there's not really that much of a stark contrast between the two candidates. Here's my thing. Fear. Here's my. The danger to us, there's not a.

[Van]

Star contrast to him. There seems to be.

[Rachel]

Yes, yes, yes. But here's the danger. If the goal is to turn this seat blue, and this is where I get nervous, the critique should be well rounded, right? There should be positive and negatives. And the reason I say that is because what you can't be so negative to where you give the other side their talking points, to where they don't have to do. Because imagine if, if, if Jasmine beats James, where does he go from here?

[Van]

It's a primary, Rachel.

[Rachel]

If Jasmine beats James and Jasmine is who is running against the Republican candidate, how does Keith Edwards then start talking about this?

[Van]

That is a. Calculate. That is a calculation in every primary that has ever existed in the history of the world.

[Rachel]

I'm not saying it's not.

[Van]

Kamala Harris stood on stage and basically said that Joe Biden had a putrid record on bussing and all kinds of that stuff. And then was his. It's a primary like that. That's the way that it goes.

[Rachel]

I know that's the way that it goes. I am just saying. He is not talking about it well rounded. It's only. I'm not talking about what the candidates are saying about each other. I'm talking about him. There's the difference. Right? Of course it's a primary. Kamala Harris talking about Joe Biden. That's candidate going against Canada.

[Van]

We do that too. We do that too in a primary.

[Rachel]

As a person who speaks on this and if the goal is to turn it blue, I'm just saying it can be dangerous where you're so critical against one and not the other. How do you turn the corner? Because it's not. It's not. He's not giving her anything. How do you turn the corner if she does beat James? And now it's like, well, we have to put all our efforts behind Jasmine Crockett so that we can turn this seat blue. And you haven't said. And he. There's still time, obviously, but you haven't said one positive thing about her. How do you then switch pitch that to get the. To get your following behind a Jasmine? That is. That is a question I would ask. I'm not saying she's free of criticism. I'm just.

[Van]

Wait a second though. So what you're saying then is like Kamala Harris and the, the candidates, they have no responsibility to take it easy on each other in a primary when they're talking shit to one another. Right. And bringing up all the type of shit and telling they. But we do. But we have like us outside of the people that are on. We have a responsibility in a. In a primary which is supposed to through intellectual combat actually weed out. Gavin Newsom comes on this. On this podcast. I asked Gavin Newsom about apac. That helps him. That helps him. Because this podcast and you know, send it to a friend. Guys, we're growing so crazy. But you know, we, we want to keep growing. This podcast is part of a million questions he's going to be asked about those things. This is the time to get roughed up so that in the general you've. You've asked answered a lot of questions that people are asking about you. So the candidates have a responsibility. They don't have any responsibility. Should I say to take it easy on each other or give each other soft beds to land. But the people that are asking questions of the candidates, be they in media or people walking around, we should kind of couch what it is that we say to make sure that in a general, the candidates aren't roughed up too much. That's not the way that's ever worked. And it actually, to be honest with you, would hurt the candidates in a general election because they will go into a general election with major sore thumbs that weren't exposed in a primary.

[Rachel]

That's not what I'm saying. I. We've been on this too long. My point is, is that if we're going to have intellectual conversations about it, they should be more well rounded and not as one sided. And I feel like maybe we haven't always done that, but I feel like we're doing a better job of that. I'm not saying don't hold people accountable, but don't only talk about them in one way. That's all I'm saying.

[Van]

Okay, cool. So I'm just so, just moving forward then? Because like I just. We, we've. We've covered so much politics on the podcast. Moving forward then we have to hold ourselves to that standard. And we will, we'll make sure that we don't pick winners and losers and it doesn't matter who it is. Yeah, because it's Eric Adams or whomever. Obviously there were sore thumbs in New York. I get what you're saying, but like in every single race, people have who they have. I think this is more, this probably has a lot more to do with the fact that he is a massive James Talarico fan. And I gotta say, he could be a massive James Talarico fan because James Talarico is a white man.

[Rachel]

No, no, it. And it really does have to do with the white man versus black woman. That's really what it comes up. Like the critique that why he was trending. Yeah, some of that. I do not think that it was fair.

[Van]

They like people straight up said, like saying that Jasmine Crockett's launch video was tone deaf. That's massaging the war.

[Rachel]

No, we both said it was tone deaf. Like the messaging was off.

[Van]

You guys, it's really important to be honest with Congresswoman Crockett or any politician that you are supporting about the way they are doing something and how it's coming.

[Rachel]

Can I just ask you this? If we had done, if our coverage on this podcast had been just criticizing her announcement, but then not watching, like we Both did her full announcement, it would have been a discredit. Like, that's what I mean. I don't know if Keith did or didn't. If he didn't, that's a little lazy. If he did and then chose not to say anything, I guess because he's only supporting James.

[Van]

Man, we gotta keep it real. This is like if. If we run through the list, even on this podcast of black. The black ladies that we criticize or talk about on this podcast are black women on the right. Black women on the right. They are completely free to tee off on. On right. The. All of the black woman stuff. None of it come like. Like, like it applies to them. So if it's Winsome Sears or if it's Candace Owens or if it's whomever it is, if it's Sage, still, if it's any of these people, I get it. Let me explain what I'm saying. I get it. Those people are involved in anti black rhetoric. Anti black rhetoric. But I'll be honest with you. The misogyny war and the stuff that we're talking about, it definitely has to do with the black women that we think are okay and worthy of protection. And so, like. Cause the black men that I'm talking about that engage in this stuff, even the ones that are on our side, beat they ass, whoop they ass. They can handle it. This is politics. Like, I'm not about to go out there and defend Candace Owens or Sage Steele or any of these people. I'm not gonna defend them. But what I'm saying is a lot of this identity stuff that we're getting into, when it is, then when it overlaps with politics, it's limiting. We have to find a way to talk about this stuff that is better and more nutritious. We have to. It's limiting at this point with the amount of things that are on the table right now. I want to see black people empowered. I want to see black women empowered. I want to see black men, black children, always empowered. But there for me right now is a set of realities that exist, and there's just no way around it. There's a set of politicians that exist in this world and in this country that are fucking useless. And a lot of them are black and some of them are black women. And I'm not saying that Jasmine Crockett is one of them by any stretch of image. But I'm saying I'm not going to. I'm not going to pretend like that's not a reality anymore because you're not.

[Rachel]

Going to blindly support somebody because of the way.

[Van]

Not even blindly support. Because I. You probably could get my support, but you know, these things are high leverage. Not even blindly support. You probably will get my support. You're going to get the benefit of the doubt. But once the benefit has been doubted, we got to be able to at least talk about it.

[Rachel]

I mean, I think we did that with Kamala Harris.

[Van]

I don't think we did. When she was running.

[Rachel]

When she was running. Absolutely not.

[Van]

Because we definitely did not.

[Rachel]

I don't know. I know we didn't. I just said absolutely not. I know we didn't. I'm talking about. But once it was because it was like anything against Trump. But once she was done, we read her book and I mean, there's a reason she hasn't stopped by here on her tour.

[Van]

I don't think that's the reason.

[Rachel]

I.

[Van]

Do you think? You know. Well, I. I don't think the podcast big enough for.

[Rachel]

I actually think that she's been to smaller places.

[Van]

She's been to smaller places. That's crazy. Anyway, I would love to have her. I think the world of her. I think that things could have been done differently and I think that those.

[Rachel]

Aren'T the interviews that are being had.

[Van]

I mean, I think. I think, you know, could let the Palestinians speak.

[Rachel]

Those aren't the interviews being had, which is why I do not think that she's here.

[Van]

Yeah, whatever. Well, we'll see how that goes. This episode is brought to you by McAfee. You want to live your online life worry free.

[Donnie]

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[Van]

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[Donnie]

Includes in game purchases.

[Van]

Includes random items. Let's get into some entertainment. Donnie, get us off. Get us started with this one. I want to know What Rachel thinks about this one.

[Donnie]

Yeah. Dr. Umar weighed in on the Netflix documentary on Diddy, the Reckoning. This is what the good doctor had to say.

[Van]

I saw the Diddy documentary. Here's what I'm gonna say about the Diddy documentary. And I have no problem with black people holding black people accountable. I'm having a problem with black people needing to expose black people that in depthly. Yeah, but you never expose white people who do things to black people. The Roman Catholic Church has taken advantage of way more children than R. Kelly allegedly did.

[Rachel]

Right.

[Van]

Are you following me? I'm following you. Jeffrey Epstein has taken advantage of way more women than Sean Combs allegedly did. But where is the documentary on Epstein by black people? Where's the documentary on a Roman Catholic church as excesses on black people? You see what I'm saying? So to me, the 50 Cent documentary, again, respect the 50. No issues there. It is an example of self hatred disguised as community service. You see how that go.

[Rachel]

I don't care about 50 Cent's intentions as to why he put out this documentary. And I really think that that's what it comes down to. He's not wrong in Dr. Umar, which you'll never normally hear me say. He's not wrong in the sense that, you know, there are other things that need to be exposed and we should have energy, you know, exposing some of the corruption and abuse in other areas. That's true. But I don't care why 50 Cent put out this Diddy documentary. I watched all four parts. Diddy is a predator. He is a monster. He is violent. He's an abuser. And for too long, he's been protected in this industry. And he's been able to walk over people, whether he does it through threatening or threats or violence or money, whatever it may be. And it's the time that we stop portraying Diddy in a certain way. And so I'm here for it. I don't care why 50 did it.

[Van]

So to answer Umar's question, who did the. One of the single greatest exposes on the Catholic Church in Boston? Spotlight, Boston Globe. They're covering things that are going on in their community. So the reason why black people tend to be the ones that comment on R. Kelly or Didi or whatever is because these are things that are happening inside the community. You might have much less knowledge about who Jeffrey Epstein is about who? About the Catholic Church. We not Catholics. If there was a tremendous amount of almost ritualized sexual abuse that was going on in the black church. And there certainly is Some. Okay. But if there was the structure that exists in the Catholic Church, if there was the covering up that exists in the Catholic Church, all of the various levels and all of that stuff that exists in the Catholic Church and it was like that was a black church situation, you probably would see a little bit more interest into it. But if you're asking why, once again, we would. About the. Why we cover stuff or why things become big deals within black community is because these are intra community issues. The young ladies that were being abused by R. Kelly were black.

[Rachel]

Yeah.

[Van]

The women that were allegedly abused by Russell Simmons. Allegedly. These women are black. These are black faces that you see up there. So these are things that are happening inside the community. A lot of the stuff that, that you see with Puff Puff didn't seem to fuck over no white people. If you look at the documentary, everybody in there, the only one that was there that puffed over that was white was Aubrey. Everybody that was talking about, I got beat out of this, that I got taken advantage of like this. These are all black people. So this is the same reason that black people comment on bad business deals or what's going on in the rap industry. People say it all the time. They go, well, white executives are taking advantage of black guys in the rap industry. Why do we care about black executives doing that? There's a different cultural expectation and there's a proximity. We talked about that. You are one of us. That's the reason why. I'll be honest with you. I tried to think of this. I tried to think of this in a way that wasn't toxic. The 50 vs. Umar thing. I tried. I tried to think of it and like, let's unpack it and. But I got.

[Rachel]

You did a good job.

[Van]

I know, but I still got too much TMZ in me is the. Is the problem. So I can only think about just what a heavyweight championship match this is, man. Umar versus 50. That's one of them ones.

[Rachel]

Is it even a match?

[Van]

It definitely is a match. That's one of them ones. That's one that if they actually go there. I actually did a tale of the tape.

[Rachel]

Please do it. You. You just mean a verbal argument.

[Van]

Now. I'm not talking about. I don't really get physical, right?

[Rachel]

No, no, no. I'm not even talking about physical because I just feel like there's more 50 could say to Umar. Not that 50. Listen. And people are bringing that up. I'm not saying 50 is free from criticism or has not made headlines for his own indiscretions because he has and I. And we, and we haven't really talked about that. But because I'm like, what Diddy did is wrong. I'm not, I'm not getting into the 50 of it all. I'm not, I'm not. Us not talking about it doesn't mean that I am okay with things that 50 has done. We're focusing on the Diddy documentary, and it needed to come out right.

[Van]

I have. Look, once again, I want to look at this, but it's just, this is the type of shit that this is the part of me that I work on.

[Rachel]

On.

[Van]

Right. I work on this part of myself. Because I go. Because it's like, oh, these are two brothers that are going at each other. I wish these brothers with platforms wouldn't be going back and forth. But then I go, God damn. 50 versus Umar. That's one of them ones. So this is an interesting fight to me.

[Rachel]

This is the tail of the tape.

[Van]

Taylor, the tape. Okay, so social media, that's 50.

[Rachel]

Okay?

[Van]

50 runs it. Social media. All right, so if it's a social media battle, 50 has 50 wins the art of Troll. I really feel like not very many people do it better.

[Rachel]

Agreed.

[Van]

Than 50. Rhetorical ability. That's Umar.

[Rachel]

It's Umar.

[Van]

Okay? Umar got the lashes. Umar got comedy. Umar has the full gamut, the full range of rhetorical abilities. He could be funny, he could be biting. He could be funny and biting. And his like, he's, he said that Sharon Moore got double snow bunny. It's funny.

[Rachel]

He is funny.

[Van]

Oh, he's funny. Okay.

[Rachel]

Problematic, but funny.

[Van]

He's funny. Cultural visibility. 50, it's a tie.

[Rachel]

Okay? Visibility is, is the key word we're focusing on.

[Van]

Cultural is the. If it's, if it's. Hold on, listen. Cultural. If it's Overall visibility, it's 50.

[Rachel]

Sure. But are you see, I, I, I.

[Van]

Got how people know who 50 is, who don't know who Umar is. How in the, in the culture.

[Rachel]

Well, that's why I'm holding on to the word visibility. It's just visibility. Yeah, it's just visibility.

[Van]

Just visibility.

[Rachel]

Because if it's not and it's, it's like opinions.

[Van]

No. Okay, I got you visibility outside of the culture. 50 Cent is a world worldwide. I got you cultural superstar.

[Rachel]

Just visibility.

[Van]

50 could go to Dubai. He could go to all of these places, everybody gonna know who he is. But if they both in Jersey, they gonna walk down the street and it's gonna be Dr. Umar. It's gonna be 50 Cent. Cultural visibility tie. Fear factor 50. Ty.

[Rachel]

50 has more power.

[Van]

50 has more power. But I'm just talking about who you. You don't want to see on that Internet getting in your face.

[Rachel]

So Dr. Umar can only go so far. He can, but 50 can go this. Because, you know, all I kept thinking when. When this came out, 50's gonna make a documentary on you because he can. Dr. Umar can't do that. You can't even get your school together is.

[Van]

Oh, damn, that's a good point.

[Rachel]

You out here. Is 50 ass out here asking for donations? Is he out here sending out his cash app for you and your woman?

[Van]

This is personal.

[Rachel]

Of course it's fucking personal. If Dr. Umar didn't cost money, I would have him. We'd have him on this podcast. I ain't paying him shit to come on the podcast, but I would love to have him come on in. Of course it's fucking personal. But listen, 50 is asking for donations.

[Van]

He said, you got snow puppies.

[Rachel]

Oh, yeah. He. He snow bunnies. Me. He snow. Or.

[Van]

Or said Rachel got snow puppet.

[Rachel]

But what was the. You know how he does. He is funny. There's no denying it. But you know how he does. Like the red stamp on it. I got stamped, but I can't remember what he called what the word is.

[Van]

It said snow puppy. I think he was talking about.

[Rachel]

He stamped it right on my.

[Van]

So fear factor. I. I thought it's so. So Rachel, you're making the point. Is that what. Whereas fear factor, you fear what Dr. Umar says, but you fear what 50 could actually do.

[Rachel]

He's got reach, power and money.

[Van]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Rachel]

There ain't enough donations for Dr. Umar to combat that.

[Van]

See? Okay, so then it's 50. Then I also had another one, and it was resources. And I guess that's where I have 50 at, because he's there too, is resources. Maybe I should have rhetorical fear, but resources is 50. Okay? Authority. Just cultural authority.

[Rachel]

I don't agree with much of what Umar says, so I'm gonna not. It's a zero. It's a tie in zero.

[Van]

For me, it's Umar.

[Rachel]

Black women would disagree.

[Van]

Black women would disagree. You think that most black women have.

[Rachel]

A problem, a misogynist.

[Van]

But see, I'll say something about this, okay? Umar's views on black women are not progressive.

[Rachel]

Correct. However you think women like that.

[Van]

I think that a lot of black women appreciate Umar's just obsessive allegiance to black women, to black women and the black family. And don't fuck with these white girls.

[Rachel]

And please take this out if this isn't true. Is he. What is his stance on the queer community?

[Van]

It's pretty bad. Okay, so pretty bad. From what I've heard. From what I've heard.

[Rachel]

That's what I thought, that's what I said. I just didn't want to accuse him of something.

[Van]

I'm not saying that Umar in any way. From what I've heard. I can't actually distill it in a way, but, but it's, it's, it's. It's been pretty bad. From what I'm understanding about the black women that I talked to about Umar is like, if we being real, these types of brothers with these type, they always been around. And most of the ladies that I talk to, they like, they appreciate Umar's.

[Rachel]

Stance on black women from black women. And I'm. And maybe I ain' am the minority. He wouldn't want me.

[Van]

I don't think you're the minority.

[Rachel]

He wouldn't want me. I wouldn't want him or his mumu's.

[Van]

You wouldn't date Umar. You wouldn't go on a date with him. But he, he appreciates black women.

[Rachel]

He wouldn't want me. He. I'm. I'm. I'm tainted. Probably to him that's not true. I. I think so.

[Van]

He believes in me.

[Rachel]

You red stamped me.

[Van]

I don't look, I'm not in any way. To me, I look at this as this is one of them ones. Now once again, I'll say this. This is not me hoping that these brothers go back and forth in public. I think we should do way less of that. Every single time I turn on my motherfucking phone, there's another beef. I don't know why these media beefs, these back and forths, they getting childish and sometimes I play into them as well. But God damn, I'm 45 years old. But this one got my inner TMZ shaking.

[Rachel]

Right? I didn't think this was childish. I thought this one was interesting when I saw it. That. But what do you think about Tyler Perry getting into it?

[Van]

What did Tyler Perry say?

[Rachel]

I. I just am like, do you not know that? Same with me.

[Van]

Is this a real tweet? Tyler Perry went to Twitter. I just finished watching the Diddy docu series. I gotta admit, I know I'm a freak too, but what that.

[Rachel]

Well, I don't think he would say that. The only reason I knew that Tyler that I heard about this other thing. My mom came to me and told me that Tyler Perry had said something.

[Van]

Tyler Perry didn't say that.

[Rachel]

Let's. Let's okay let's just not do that that cuz but 50. But allegedly 50 responded to what you.

[Van]

Thought was Tyler Perry.

[Donnie]

No, this is all coming from this one post and it's all.

[Rachel]

Oh he wrote I don't think this is real.

[Van]

This is.

[Rachel]

Damn. My mom got duped. I gotta tell her. Tyler didn't say anything under. While he's in a lawsuit. That's what I couldn't believe. All the accusations that have been against you. But you know what's bad about this? If 50 really did reply even if it's AI 50 might be like this still might be a good A good thing to investigate now now that I have your the attent.

[Van]

Tyler Perry has that type of. He does have.

[Rachel]

Let's not forget of the. I believe. Is it Christian Keys.

[Van]

Christian Keys never named.

[Rachel]

He never named him. But there's a lot of speculate. There's enough I think maybe not to do a lawsuit. Yeah yeah. And the actual lawsuit. That guy is not backing down there. All these rumors. You don't know what 50 could put together. I mean even with the reckoning I thought. Thought we had already heard things that all the people he gathered the people I'd never heard of the best friend. You have no idea what people might come together for. So even if it's not true, 50 might be like I didn't think about that but now I am. That's anyways it's not real but. But now it's on 50s radar whether it is or it isn't. So don't be surprised if a documentary comes out.

[Van]

Yeah. Marlowans talked a little bit about his opinions. I think a lot of people have.

[Rachel]

That was childish.

[Van]

I'll tell you what though. The documentary itself was good and it was very very eye opening.

[Rachel]

Great.

[Van]

50 and Diddy obviously had some kind of issue and that was probably at the floor of the documentary. But the ceiling of the documentary was a lot of information that was probably very usable for people. There you go. All right. It's time to put myself to the test.

[Rachel]

Okay.

[Van]

I have a very special talent.

[Rachel]

Go ahead, keep tooting your own horn.

[Van]

This is true, you guys. I can look at a white person, someone who I know about and I can guess how many times in their life that they've said the N word.

[Rachel]

And what do you base this on? That you know, that you have this skill.

[Van]

What do you mean what do I base it on?

[Rachel]

Well, you have this skill. It has to have been proven right. Otherwise, how do you know it's a skill? How do you know you've been right? You have to prove the fact that you are great at this.

[Van]

So white people, in their white moments that they have with me, sometimes, I'll tell them what their number is, and then they'll go, damn, that's pretty close.

[Rachel]

Who said that?

[Van]

I don't want to talk about it because it might be some of your faves. And you guys might be shocked and appalled with some of the numbers that I come up with.

[Rachel]

I don't think I'd be shocked at anybody who definitely would be shocked. All right, we'll talk off my.

[Van]

So I'll say. So I'll say to them, I'll be like, I know that's around your number. And they'll go, oh my God. So I've. I've talked to them.

[Rachel]

Can I ask you this before you show us how great you are at this? Why is that important for you to know?

[Van]

Because it makes white people uncomfortable.

[Rachel]

Okay. I'm so okay with that answer.

[Van]

Okay. A lot of people ask. A lot of people ask, van, why do you do stuff? And I'll just be honest with you guys. I'll just keep it all the way real. You know, people use terms with me, like he's race obsessed, racist, all that stuff. I'm not that at all. You know, I've always been down shout out to everybody. Back in the day, McKinley middle magnet, when I was like into nirvana and all of that shit. We've always. I've always exchanged culture with my white cohorts. But sometimes I look around in my world and I look at all of the shit that my people and my ancestors didn't have. And I just want you to know that I know.

[Rachel]

Okay?

[Van]

Okay, so how's that? You're having a great Tuesday. You're eating an ice cream cone cone. Well, guess what? We like ice cream too, and we can't have it. So enjoy your ice cream cone a while. We sitting over here in an ice creamless existence. We invented all kinds of. We'll get no credit for it. So if you gonna get on the roller coaster, maybe you should know that Granville T. Woods, a black genius, invented all kinds of patents around electric roller coasters and all kinds of crazy shit. You didn't know that, that you're enjoying all that stuff. Go forth and know that I know who you are.

[Rachel]

Go forth.

[Van]

All right, so I've given Donnie. Donnie's gonna throw some celebrities out at me. And then I'm going to guess their number. How many times I think. I think they've said the N word. And Rachel, I want you to be an arbiter and see if maybe you understand how I'm coming to these numbers.

[Rachel]

Quite the names on this list.

[Van]

Yeah, Donnie. Yeah, go for it.

[Donnie]

First one, Sydney Sweeney.

[Van]

Now, Sydney Sweeney is, I think from Texas.

[Rachel]

No.

[Van]

Where is she from?

[Rachel]

Like, isn't she from, like Montana? We can just easily. Let's look at definitely not from Texas.

[Van]

Let's look at where Sydney Sweeney is from Washington.

[Donnie]

Spokane.

[Van]

Okay, she's from Spokane, Washington. All right. She is how old? She's 30 years old. 29. 30 years old. Something like she's 28. Okay, she's. I said 30, something like that. Okay, so send it to. She is from Spokane, Washington. She is nearly 30 years old. So the age in this situation lowers the amount of time that she's actually been able to say the N word. She has that time on the planet to get her N word count all the way up.

[Rachel]

Can I add to it?

[Van]

What?

[Rachel]

She was born in Spokane, but she was raised in the Idaho Panhandle.

[Van]

Idaho Panhandle. Not a lot of black people there. Okay. There in the Idaho Panhandle. She's also, from what I gather, not that into the hip hop type of culture and music, which would raise the N word count because maybe you're singing along to the songs. That counts as well.

[Rachel]

Yeah. I would say I would have put her in the song singing category.

[Van]

Right. But I don't think that I haven't seen her. Oh, my God. I'm hanging out with Ice Spice or anything like that. However, there is something else to consider with Sydney Sweeney, and this is a right leaning MAGA adjacent personality. So I would normally give somebody with Sydney Sweeney's profile 1300 inwards. But because of that stuff, I gotta go up to 1500. I gotta give her an extra 400 because she's around probably a lot of people that are saying the word. And then she's going, oh, my God. So she's probably around people that are saying the word. And I give her an extra 14. She's hanging out on a set of Euphoria and all that stuff. So I'm gonna give her, I will say 1500. Oh, she moved to LA at 13. That's 1600. That's an extra hundred.

[Rachel]

Why? You could say that she's more. Because think about it. That means she lived in the Panhandle and Spokane when she was very young.

[Van]

Yeah.

[Rachel]

Probably not using the word as like listening to the music or using the word as much. Let's say started at 12, right? She started listening to that kind of music. Well, it's not the music.

[Van]

It's not the music thing.

[Rachel]

Okay? Or even.

[Van]

Even, but look, that party that she went to, Rachel.

[Rachel]

What party?

[Van]

Remember the party she went to? Everybody was mad at the party.

[Rachel]

Oh, it was her birthday party.

[Van]

I think it was some party that she was at.

[Rachel]

That party.

[Van]

That party is worth at least 203 words.

[Rachel]

Think about how her family would use it, right? Well, maybe when they see one, probably didn't see one up there watching tv.

[Van]

But where would you see one? You see one all. Like when you're around that type of situation, you're hearing, God damn it, all the problems are because of the niggers.

[Rachel]

Okay?

[Van]

So I'm going to give her. So I'm going to Give Sydney Sweeney 1500. 1500 in words in her life. Okay, Donnie, next one.

[Donnie]

Next one. Timothy Chalamet.

[Rachel]

I'm excited about this one.

[Van]

Okay, now I want you guys to understand here when we talk about Timmy. This is not a shot of Timmy. I know you guys love some Timmy. Timmy is also in his early 30s. I think he's 30 years old. He grew up in New York.

[Rachel]

29.

[Van]

He's 29. He grew up in New York. Okay? Big fan of hip hop music, Big fan of basketball culture, all things like that. The fact that you grew up in New York, that's where he's from, right? The fact that you grew up in New York, in the city of New York as a white person, establishes a baseline of 500N words. We'll talk about other cities. Then. Hip hop adds hip hop. The fact that he loves hip hop, I'm going to give him another thousand in words on top of that. Okay? Then the fact that he be all up in the videos dancing. Timothy's N word count is 27.18inwards. That's how many times he said it. He said it trying to be cool. He probably says it less. Hey, by the way, I'll give you something else. Timothy said that he was scared to ride around in a car with Kendrick Lamar because he was in the middle of a Drake battle.

[Rachel]

And that was recent.

[Van]

That was recent. All right, so that tells me that I need to subtract 400N words because he ain't quite that down exactly 2,300.

[Rachel]

Okay? So it's my job here to push back, you know, but there could be an argument made because he grew up in Manhattan, because he grew up around diversity. You Know, went to Booker T. Washington middle school. Went to LaGuardia. Went to LaGuardia.

[Van]

What was the middle school?

[Rachel]

Booker C. Washington.

[Van]

3,000. In words.

[Rachel]

He got. Went 3,000. Went to LaGuardia.

[Van]

Up the number.

[Rachel]

Went to LaGuardia, 3,000. You could argue Booker T. Washington. You could argue that he was equally around, like, you know, people who think that they're down and maybe got a pass, maybe middle school was getting a pass. And then you. If you encounter somebody who's like, you're not supposed to be saying that, and then they like to prove how down they are because they know not to say it.

[Van]

That is the reason why it's not higher, because he probably has tailed off in usage. His is probably higher than Sydney's just because of the way he's using it. You guys have to understand some of this usage is more about proximity and culture. His is higher than Sydney's. Okay, it is so better.

[Rachel]

Okay, who's next?

[Van]

What else we got?

[Donnie]

Yeah, this next one is. Let's see. Julia Roberts.

[Van]

Oh, man, this is a good one. Okay, so she's from Georgia, right? She's in her mid to late 50s.

[Rachel]

Think about her upbringing. Upbringing is a story they like to tell every year, once a year, and remind us.

[Van]

Talk about it.

[Rachel]

I. Did they. Did they entertain Martin Luther King Jr. His parents. Her parents entertained his parents.

[Van]

Yeah. She has roots in the. In the struggle. I'm gonna go 750. Because you would think that a older lady, that is old ish lady that was from Georgia would have a higher count. But her parents wanted to take it away. They ingrained it into her. That's 750. And the 750 that she gets is just because of age. 750n words for somebody like a Julia Roberts. 750. The Martin Luther King Jr. Shit. She loves to tell that story. That story is her N word. Like when she. When. When she is like trying to connect with black people. She's not trying to connect with black people and telling the story and stuff like that. She's connecting with black people by saying, I was hanging out with Martin Luther King Jr. My parents were. And all of that stuff. That story's her N word. That's her. That's her cultural thing that she reaches out to across the aisle. What you got? You got something else?

[Rachel]

No, no, no. I was just going to give background. So apparently her children. Her parents ran a children's acting school when they were pregnant with Julia. And the children of Coretta and Martin Luther King Jr. Attended the school.

[Van]

See, that's. That's. That. That. That's meaningful.

[Rachel]

And Walter Roberts was the acting coach of Yolanda King. And in gratitude for his service running the only racially integrated theater troupe. You gotta lower her number in the region. And due to the Roberts financial difficulties, Coretta Scott King paid Julia Roberts hospital bill when she played the hospital bill where she was born.

[Van]

500.

[Rachel]

Yeah, you had to lower it. You have to lower it even less than that.

[Van]

Nah, it's five. She's five.

[Rachel]

Just because she the only racially integrated theater.

[Van]

True. Yeah, she just. She just gets drunk a couple of times a year and lets it fly. But five, like 500. 500. All right, Donnie, next.

[Donnie]

All right. What about Eminem?

[Van]

It's tough. Now, let me tell you why. Eminem as a rapper has made an incredible attempt at being very safe and nutritious to black audiences, even though he.

[Rachel]

Said some problematic things about black women.

[Van]

That's the one thing that makes me think this number is fucking crazy.

[Rachel]

Behind closed doors.

[Van]

Okay, like, so if Eminem didn't have that one song, I would say that Eminem, a guy who's, you know, in this, I would give his number different because maybe he's trying to keep it real. But that one song when he got mad is nuts.

[Rachel]

Aren't you friends with Royce?

[Van]

I am friends with Royce.

[Rachel]

Why don't you ask.

[Van]

Ask Royce. No, Royce would never let shout out to Royce. Don't bring Royce into this. See, that's what people love to do.

[Rachel]

Don't you know? You have a source where you could at least get some more insight on it. That's all I'm saying.

[Van]

I'm not gonna call that shout out, but. So that one song. That one song is worth 5,000 N words by itself, because you let it. You let it. And look, Eminem has been a good rap ally. Eminem wins the. He wins the award. I think it was the Oscar or something like that. He goes up there and he thanks all the black guys and stuff like that. I think that what he did was he peaked early in N word usage. I bet it's tailed off over the years. But if we talking about a race to 5,000, that nigga probably got there by, like, 17, 18.

[Rachel]

He was definitely, like, probably saying it with his friends in the hood, and.

[Van]

They probably was cool with it.

[Rachel]

Yeah, I see. I definitely see that.

[Van]

That's some of the Manhattan stuff going back to Timothy Chalamet. The reason why he has what people would consider to be a high number is you go to New York and you get n worded from a bunch of different people, and you're like, what the fuck is going on here? New York, interesting place in that people will say, we will never let the confederate fly flag fly here. We wouldn't go for that shit. But then Puerto Ricans is nigga, nigga, nigga. And I'm like, what the fuck is going on?

[Rachel]

They be defending that to, like, ten toes down.

[Van]

Yeah. It's like, oh, we wouldn't deal with the confederate flag. We don't see how y' all deal that in the South. But then it's like, you go up there, it's like, nigga, nigga, nigga. I digress. I'm gonna go 5,000 for Eminem. And that's actually stalling them out. I'm gonna be real with you.

[Rachel]

You okay?

[Van]

That's actually stalling them out. Last one, Donnie.

[Donnie]

Last one.

[Van]

Marky.

[Donnie]

Mark, Mark Wahlberg.

[Rachel]

Whatever number you give him, I feel like it was all before. Before, like 20N.

[Van]

You tripping, you tripping, you tripping. Okay, so where is Mark Wahlberg from in the world?

[Rachel]

Boston.

[Van]

And he was born in the seventies. That's that alone. Set his floor. Sets his floor. His floor is set at 10,000 in words.

[Rachel]

I want to note that When I said 20 or 30, I meant age.

[Van]

10,000. N words. Floor for Mark Wahlberg, born in Boston, 1971. 10,000. That's the floor.

[Rachel]

So anybody born in Boston around what year has a floor? 10,000. Is that what you're saying?

[Van]

You repeating it ain't gonna change nothing. 10,000 is the floor. Okay. You repeating it is not changing anything. Okay, now we have to look at some other things with Mark Wahlberg. Guys, Mark Wahlberg has had some controversies that are race based. And I don't even know if y' all know this, but this was a terror at some point. Yeah, there's talk that he threw a rock and hit a Asian guy in his face and blinded him. There's more talk that he actually threw rocks at black children getting off of a school bus. That act alone of doing that in his past is worth 25,000 N words.

[Rachel]

In addition to the 10.

[Van]

In addition to the 10. So we already at 35,000 N words for Mark.

[Rachel]

Walter, Donny gave you a little bit to prove your argument.

[Van]

What did Donnie give me?

[Rachel]

Unlike anything that we have from the other people that you critiqued. You have some specific information here regarding Mark Wahlberg.

[Van]

Okay, so we're at 35,000, and that's before we get to rap. Feel it. Feel It. Come on, come on. He was a rapper. And any white guy that's a rapper, you got to put some n words on top of it. There's more in words. He's saying he's trying to hang out. He's, you know, he's hanging out. He's with the guys from House of Pain and they're cool. And then fucking De La Soul comes around and they like don't say it and then, but, but then they're saying it and all of that. I don't know if House of Cup we could talk about House of Pain. But what I'm saying is, is like that right there puts him easily in the Mark Wahlberg hall of fame. The hall of fame is named after Mark Wahlberg plus 50,000 inwards. Plus 50,000. It's a 50 plus 50,000. In 1986, 15 year old Wahlberg and his three friends chased three black children while yelling Kill the. Kill the 85,000, bro. 85,000. This is the 85,000 N words for Mark Wahlberg. 85,000.

[Rachel]

Legal eagle here. I just want to note that all of this is an opinion.

[Van]

Opinion. It's an opinion.

[Rachel]

I have to do that for defamation purposes. Legal eagle. This is all an opinion.

[Van]

This is all jokes and actual opinions.

[Rachel]

Opinions.

[Van]

85,000, man. Now, here's the thing about Mark Wahlberg. When you look at the bright side of things. Reform, change. I don't think that any of these n words really happen. Happened after like 92, 93.

[Rachel]

See, that's why I said the number is I think before 20.

[Van]

But just think about before.

[Rachel]

No, no, no, I know, but that's why I say I don't think before age. I mean after age 20. That's what I was saying. But I, I agree with you.

[Van]

So not.

[Rachel]

I don't agree that 85, 000. I agree that the number was probably crazy. We have actual evidence that's.

[Van]

That's stalling them out. We could go Boston 10,000 was trying to rap, threw rocks at kids, yelled.

[Rachel]

At him and then said, I'm a rap.

[Van]

Perfect storm. Perfect storm for n word majesty. He's probably the king to me. He's probably the king to me.

[Rachel]

I can't do the math. I was trying to do the math on it. I'm not good at that.

[Van]

Do it. How old is Mark Wahlberg? Let's do it.

[Rachel]

No, no, do from age 20.

[Van]

So. So. No, let's say so Mark wall. So in 20 years, calculator 20 divided by 85,000.

[Rachel]

How many is he averaging A year.

[Van]

How many N words a year is that?

[Rachel]

42, 4250.

[Van]

Easy word for him.

[Rachel]

That's. We're doing it by 20. So that's even before he could talk.

[Van]

So it's really more than that easy work for. He was. That was probably some of his first.

[Rachel]

15, like, from winning.

[Van]

That's probably some of his first words. He probably got crazy in elementary school.

[Rachel]

This is a crazy segment.

[Van]

It. It did like, probably some of his first words. So this is. We're gonna get back to it. Mark Wahlberg, 85,000. Sydney Sweeney, 1500. Could go up with that. Timothy Chalamet, 3000. Julia Roberts, 500. Eminem, 5000. That's fair. Anybody that y' all want to know, just reach out to higher learning and we'll tell y' all what the count is.

[Rachel]

One more. What? Just again, legal eagle. This is all an opinion.

[Van]

This is all any. This is a scientific opinion. And y' all out there that be hitting me on the phone to argue different. I know y' all accounts, too. I could tell where y' all talking. I could tell the way y' all talk to me. I could tell. There's something else you could tell about the N word count from the way somebody talked to you. Like, when you're on the phone with somebody talking about some world issues and they consistently talk to you like you don't know what you're talking about. And like, you. Like you've never done the research.

[Rachel]

I could tell why people are going to be afraid to talk to you because they know that in your mind the toll is going up based on how they say it, based on any kind of information. They just might be casually talking and be like, oh, yeah, I remember when I grew up in Missouri.

[Van]

Immediately you're like, well, part we'll part.

[Rachel]

We'Ll part like there's a running toll in your head.

[Van]

What part?

[Rachel]

No, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. The point is they will live in fear now talking to you. People should just start coming up to you and be like, my count is 300.

[Van]

They should just. Just like my counts self report. So this is so like. Like, people do this huge fan on.

[Rachel]

The street and give him your count. One of my homeboys was, like, free of judgment. He's not going to judge you. He's already assuming it.

[Van]

One of my homeboys, great guys from D.C. and he played AAU basketball. I was like, that's 1500. Just in that experience.

[Rachel]

Just see what I'm saying?

[Van]

You're free from that Experience. He's saying it because even if he's not saying it to those guys, he's like, around his other friends and he's saying to it. He's saying it. They're saying the word. All right, y' all know that this is. Y' all know that they say it. They say it.

[Rachel]

Yes, but you with these counts. Let's go.

[Van]

All right, we gotta get out of here. Before we go, Young Thug is.

[Rachel]

He proposed to Mariah Scientist, Mariana Scientist. And this had a lot of people talking.

[Van]

Why?

[Rachel]

One, they didn't like the proposal.

[Van]

How? How come?

[Rachel]

Well, it was at his benefit concert. It's in Atlanta. It was in front of everybody on stage. Maybe this is what she wanted. And this is why I say to everybody who's upset, guys, this is none of our business, okay? We are not in their relationship. Even though we do, we do feel a closeness to it because of the leaked audio and video from. From jail when. When Thug was there. But we don't know their relationship. We don't know the ins and outs. We don't know what she's put up with, with what he's put up with. All we know is these are two people that have professed their love to one another and now they are moving to. Towards marriage, which is something Mariah just was on an interview saying that she wanted before she wanted to have a family. I wish them well. It's not of our business. It's none of our business. It's not your business how he decided to propose. It's not your business if you thought it was calculated or that he trapped her because he did it in front of everybody. So it was hard for her to say, no. It's not your business that you think the ring is ugly. Okay? None of that. We wish them well.

[Van]

I wish them well, too. People decide to get married. Young Thug, Mariah the Scientist. I. I'm making another.

[Rachel]

Proclamation, and that is.

[Van]

2026. Atlanta hip hop is coming back.

[Rachel]

Okay. I'd love to see it.

[Van]

Atlanta Hip Hop. The dominance has been threatened by a lot of the inner workings of the relationships that have been going on with the hip hop industry stuff. I think listening to what 21 is talking about, the calls for everybody to get back on the same page.

[Rachel]

I like his new album.

[Van]

I like his new album too. Say whatever you want about 21. 21. Don't miss with that music, man.

[Rachel]

Agreed.

[Van]

So I think 2026 is going to be a big year for Atlanta Hip Hop. And part of that is going to be because Drake is dropping when Iceman is coming out, I gotta say something else, and you guys not gonna like it. If in fact, Drake is punishing hip hop by not dropping music because of the way he's felt treated by the culture, you have got to be honest that Drake. Drake has been felt in terms of his absence, the absence of Drake moving around, being in music, dropping music. Obviously Kendrick too, because Kendrick held it down while he was doing it. But Kendrick is the type of artist that puts out much less music in a much more pointed way. Obviously. In my opinion, the absence of Drake in hip hop is affecting at least one portion of the music. At least that portion of the music that's radio club friendly, that keeps the club moving, that keeps the charts, all of that stuff, that part of it is definitely affected by the absence of Drake. And nobody else has been able to pick up the slack. Slack.

[Rachel]

I mean, that's evident in what you saw with the Billboard.

[Van]

No one seems like they able to pick up the slack. So I'm not saying that Drake is Atlanta hip hop. I'm saying that Drake will drop and a lot of those artists will work together again. We'll see what happens. It'll kind of energize the game a little bit, because Drake's album will energize the game. I haven't really been too huge of a fan of Drake's last albums that he's put out, but he gets people talking and he gets people singing and he gets people into it. And I think it's important. I think Atlanta's coming back. I think Drake is gonna be good. I think 20, 26 is gonna be a good year for hip hop. And part of it is because of all this stuff I just said. Straight up, y'.

[Donnie]

All.

[Van]

Hip hop is miss Drake. You didn't think that you would, but it's just true. You've missed them. Tell them you miss him. Look in the camera.

[Rachel]

Oh, no, I didn't go on the whole rant that you did. I mean, I was waiting for you to say ovo.

[Van]

Ovo. Look, why I gotta. I can't.

[Rachel]

You're not wrong in what you said. Yeah, don't try to put it on me and be like you miss them. Oh, I agree with what you're saying about hip hop. Nothing.

[Van]

By the time I introduced you guys, you never in.

[Rachel]

You didn't introduce me.

[Van]

Introduce you?

[Rachel]

No, you didn't. You was. He was there.

[Van]

He was happy to meet him.

[Rachel]

And that is, he was happy to meet you. And now, guys, this is not true. He was happy to meet you.

[Van]

I've never met Drake, treated you in a nice way.

[Rachel]

I've never met him.

[Van]

Like, everybody, y' all don't have to pick a side. Y' all could. Like, you could say that Drake got washing the battle, which he did. Right. There's nothing wrong with that. But you could also say that the music matters and all of that stuff.

[Rachel]

Like that Drake concert.

[Van]

You like that?

[Rachel]

Not as many Kendricks as I've been to, but I've been to Drake concerts.

[Van]

It's okay to like both like his music. It's also okay to say that, like, I would love in 2026 to be able to have a good time. Time this year.

[Rachel]

Yeah, this year. This year was rough for pretty much everybody. I know. This year was really rough. So let's lighten it up in 2026. We all need that.

[Van]

Congrats to Kendrick. Not Kendrick. Congrats to. Well, congrats to him too. But congrats to young thug Mariah the scientist. Yeah, yeah. They go ahead and do their thing.

[Rachel]

And protect your heart, though, Mariah.

[Van]

What do that mean?

[Rachel]

Just. I would say that to anybody.

[Van]

Stay out their business. Don't bring your on to them.

[Rachel]

Oh, I'll say that to anybody.

[Van]

Protect the heart. Protect the heart. Before we go, Mariah Carey is back.

[Rachel]

Where does she go? When does she leave?

[Van]

She pops up every Christmas.

[Rachel]

Yeah, she does. Yes. December 1st.

[Van]

But, you know, and that's dope. I don't think that Santa is the symbol of Christmas anymore. I think it's Mariah Carey in a Santa suit. I hear Mariah Carey. I know it's time for Christmas. She's a Christmas lady. She a Christmas lady. City. Let's go, man. Take your think cats off. Not stop learning. I'm Van Le. We're not afraid of getting sued.

[Rachel]

I'm Rachel and Lindsay. I was going to say something about opinions and facts. That's it. Opinions. Bye, guys.