Epstein Revelations, Ja Rule vs. G-Unit, and Symone Sanders Townsend and Eugene Daniels

Summary

Podcast Summary: Higher Learning with Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay

Episode: Epstein Revelations, Ja Rule vs. G-Unit, and Symone Sanders Townsend and Eugene Daniels
Date: February 13, 2026
Guests: Logan Murdock, Simone Sanders Townsend, Eugene Daniels
Duration: ~2 hours, following main discussion (ads, intros, outros, and non-content sections omitted)

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Main Theme and Purpose

This episode of Higher Learning tackles three major topics at the intersection of Black culture, politics, and sports:

1. The ongoing Ja Rule vs. G-Unit beef and its cultural significance,
2. Revelations stemming from newly released Jeffrey Epstein files and their impact on figures like Casey Wasserman,
3. An interview with podcast hosts and political insiders Simone Sanders Townsend and Eugene Daniels about their new podcast "Clock It," as well as wider cultural and political themes — especially the intersection of culture and politics, generational divides, and primary election tensions exemplified by Texas's Crockett vs. Talarico race.

The conversation is lively, humorous, and candid, blending deep dives, pop culture riffs, and pointed critiques of the political and entertainment establishment.

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Episode Breakdown

1. All-Star Catch-up and Host Banter

[00:00–03:18]

• Logan Murdock joins the co-hosts ahead of All Star Weekend, joking about previous appearances:
  "I'm really scared because last time I was on here, you talked about shaving your balls." (Logan, 00:21)
• The hosts catch up, poke fun at each other, and promo Logan's relation to the G League Dunk Contest.

---

2. Ja Rule vs. G-Unit — Pillow Fights in First Class

[05:25–14:12]

The infamous and ongoing Ja Rule/G-Unit beef reignites — not on the streets, but on a Delta flight, leading to a now-viral "pillow fight" confrontation.

• Clip Replay:
  "Suck ass Ja Ruin the plane..." (Playback, 05:44)
• The hosts reflect on the absurdity and legacy of hip-hop feuds translating to relatively privileged settings.
• Van: "How the fuck long can we do shit like this?" (Van, 11:04)
• Logan: "It was just hilarious that it has devolved into a pillow fight on first class." (Logan, 12:36)
  • Suggests the Gucci Mane vs. Jeezy model: coexistence without confrontation.

Key Insight:

• The spectacle is for social media as much as for real-world conflict, often feeding internet narratives (Logan, 13:30).
• Rachel and Van discuss cycles of beef, healing, and whether maturity is possible — Van notes: "Don't the healing have to be serious too?" (14:12)

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3. New Epstein Revelations & Fallout for the Rich and Famous

[21:28–37:46]

Casey Wasserman & the Olympics

• New disclosures from the Epstein files reveal Casey Wasserman (LA Olympics, Wasserman Agency) exchanged flirtatious emails with Ghislaine Maxwell.
  • "It looked like he was feeding for some...some Ghislaine." (Van, 22:01)
  • "His name isn't mentioned directly to Jeffrey Epstein, but it is to Ghislaine Maxwell..." (Rachel, 23:38)
• Artists and politicians call for his resignation, inciting backlash and industry shake-ups.

Culture, Power, and Accountability

• Van ties the slow pace of accountability to the concentration of powerful elites ("the Epstein class").

  • "Consequences as it relates to being involved... they're slower to come than people might think..." (Van, 26:06)
  • "Once a move like this is taken...the floodgates could be opened for accountability..." (Van, 27:20)

• Rachel: Once there's one big consequence, others in the power structure may be forced to follow.

• Mention of Steve Tisch and Howard Lutnick as examples of wealthy elites possibly lying about their connections to Epstein.

Notable Quote:

• "How serious is it to heal? Can we set aside some seriousness for that part of it?" (Van, 15:17)

Reflections on Societal Decay

• Van: These rich and powerful networks not only shield child abuse but also perpetuate broken systems, notably health care.
  • "Is it fucking right for somebody to die because they get sick? ...same way the powerful insulate themselves..." (Van, 51:00)

---

4. Guest Interview: Simone Sanders Townsend & Eugene Daniels

[64:45–82:56]

Launching Clock It Podcast

• The duo introduces their new podcast about the intersection of culture and politics.
  • "Culture is not a sideshow to what's happening in politics. It's part of the main event." (Simone, 65:37)
• Unique angle: the focus isn't on politicians as guests, but on figures shaping or reflecting the zeitgeist.

Why Culture Matters Politically

• Tristan: "Trump... understands that trying to arrest the culture... is actually a better way to operate as a president..." (Eugene, 66:24)
• "We're going to get into some of the news of the day... but also about the cultural zeitgeist..." (Simone, 71:10)

Politicians' Inability to Be Authentic

• Van: "If you know politicians in real life and then you interview them, the whiplash that you get is oftentimes off putting." (Van, 73:37)
• Eugene and Simone agree: most can’t switch off their campaign persona to have an honest dialogue, in contrast to Trump's perceived authenticity.

The Generational Divide

• Simone: "There's a generational thing there. But I think the politicians are clocking it. That's why Gavin Newsom got his own podcast." (Simone, 81:18)

Racial and Ideological Faultlines — The Crockett/Talarico Race

[82:56–99:49]

• The Texas Senate Democratic primary (Jasmine Crockett vs. James Talarico) is scrutinized for its racial/ideological undertones.
  • Eugene: The Democratic divide is now about how to fight, not what to fight for. (85:18)
  • Both guests note the misogynoir in how Crockett is discussed and the double standards at play.

Notable Exchange:

• Simone: "That doesn't mean we should be above critiquing the candidates, including Congresswoman Crockett..." (88:27)
• Van: "I'm not going to protect power that is using blackness to shield itself or insulate itself from criticism or investigation." (91:25)
• Rachel: "What is your motivation for voting for Jasmine?" and likewise for Talarico; voters must interrogate their reasons and not simply react to identity. (111:50)

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5. Pop Culture & Hip-Hop — Accountability, Change, and Solidarity

[115:28–124:38]

• Quick riff on Drake vs. Kendrick fandom, and the performative nature of hip-hop in the social media era.
• Van: "Hip-hop might be an entity that actually only serves hip hop... every time we just need somebody to be like Ice, they go to the Michael Rubin party..." (118:09)
  • Wonders whether the community's impulse to defend young Black men (90s–00s) insulated hip-hop from needed accountability.
• Rachel: "We should be able to have these conversations, and it should be a bigger conversation. Has nothing to do with you being old. It's with you caring." (124:38)

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6. "Fart N**ger" — Scandal, Apologies, and Public Cynicism

[125:05–133:34]

• Nicole Curtis, host of HGTV’s Rehab Addict, caught on tape using the racial slur "fart nigger."
  • Rachel: "She uses this term all the time... it is a part of her vocabulary." (128:08)
  • Van, provocatively: "I think the N word could be looked at as the new leak in your nudes — something that you do when you want to look edgy..." (130:12)
• Rachel vehemently rejects the notion it's a calculated stunt and calls out hollow apologies.
• The hosts joke about whether this controversy could "benefit" the career, but conclude that’s unlikely in this case.
  • "If she ends up really coming up from it, if she does the whole circuit... then I'll start to think that I was right about the entire fart n****r situation." (Van, 133:27)

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Memorable Quotes

• Van Lathan, regarding the persistence of beef:
  "How the fuck long can we do shit like this?...Don't the healing have to be serious too?" (11:04–15:17)

• Logan Murdock, on reality TV culture and hip hop feuds:
  "Life has become like the biggest reality show...as soon as this ends, Tony Yayo is getting on with Vlad TV..." (13:30)

• Rachel Lindsay, on motivations in the Crockett/Talarico race:
  "What is your motivation for voting for Jasmine? Or James?...It should be much deeper than that if the goal is to really get the things that we want from a system that is failing us." (111:50)

• Van, on the elite’s insulation from criticism:
  "They also insulate themselves from investigation about the systems that they have created and participated in that continue to immiserate Americans generation after generation." (51:00)

• Simone Sanders, on politicians' lack of authenticity:
  "There have been many times where...they would come out of the meeting and be like, 'Oh my gosh, she's so great!'...Then they'll see her on an interview...and be like, 'Hmm, I just feel like that's not the same person I saw privately.'" (81:10)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 00:13–03:18 - Opening banter; Logan joins
• 05:25–14:12 - Ja Rule vs. G-Unit pillow fight, hip-hop beef, and cultural reflection
• 21:28–37:46 - Epstein revelations, Casey Wasserman, and elite accountability
• 45:41–51:00 - Broader thematic reflections on power, health care, and social systems
• 64:45–82:56 - Interview: Simone Sanders and Eugene Daniels ("Clock It" podcast)
• 82:56–99:49 - Democratic primary in Texas: Jasmine Crockett vs. James Talarico
• 115:28–124:38 - Hip-hop, accountability, and culture wars discussion
• 125:05–133:34 - The "fart n****r" scandal & public apologies

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Tone and Language

• Conversational, irreverent, and at times quite raw; the hosts do not shy away from using strong language or expressing frustration.
• Humor is a consistent thread, often used to highlight absurdities (e.g., pillow fights, "fart n****r").
• Underlying the banter, there's serious engagement with issues of justice, representation, media responsibility, and intergenerational cultural change.

---

Conclusion

This episode of Higher Learning weaves together timely Black cultural moments, pop-rap feuds, networked elite scandals, and a deep dive into the changing relationship between culture and politics. The hosts and guests challenge the idea of uncritical solidarity within marginalized groups, press for true accountability among public figures (whether rappers, athletes, politicians, or Hollywood moguls), and reflect on the changing ways in which culture influences — and is weaponized by — political movements.

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For references, skip directly to the following notable timestamps:

• Ja Rule vs. G-Unit pillow fight: 05:25
• Casey Wasserman/Epstein fallout: 21:28
• Clock It podcast intro: 64:45
• Breakdown of Texas Democratic Senate primary: 82:56
• "Fart n****r" scandal: 125:05

Memorable Van Lathan quote:
"If you say something that is racially insensitive and you won't even talk about it, you won't even address it in a way that, to me, is robust, then you're kind of saying, 'fuck me and everything that my ancestors went through.'" (109:57)

Transcript

[A]

Foreign. Warriors. What is up? Higher learning is on. Is I, Van Lazen Jr. And it's.

[B]

Me, Rachel and Lindsay.

[A]

We got cousin Logan in the house today. It's All Star. So Logan Murdoch is in the crib. What's up, Logan? How you doing, brother?

[C]

What's going on, man?

[A]

What's happening with you, bro?

[C]

I'm really scared because last time I was on here, you talked about shaving your balls. And I think that's why, like, Logan, I think that's why I'm back here.

[A]

I wouldn't even think.

[B]

Exactly.

[C]

Because I need to be far away from that.

[A]

But I'm out here.

[C]

I'm trying.

[A]

Designated third co host seat right there. We got the shot back there, but the reality is I wasn't even thinking about that.

[B]

Now I'm thinking about it now. See, Logan, See, you're going to. You know how he's. It's in the back of his mind. It will now. Something sexual Will.

[A]

It's not sexual. What's sexual about shaving your balls, though? It's not sexual.

[B]

It's not sexual.

[C]

Okay?

[B]

It's personal. I don't know what. I don't know what the word is.

[A]

This is my thing. And once again, we're not gonna spend a whole lot of time on this.

[B]

How about not any.

[A]

He brought it up.

[C]

I didn't mean to do this.

[A]

He brought it up.

[B]

Okay, Logan, we're so happy you're here.

[A]

But here's the thing.

[D]

Happy you're back. Logan.

[B]

Why are you back in town?

[A]

Why do we hold it all in? Why can't we just talk about.

[E]

We can, me and Rachel, but it's.

[B]

Just not right now.

[E]

Excuse me.

[C]

Excuse me. Me and Rachel are having a conversation right now.

[A]

You know what you're doing right now.

[C]

But she asked me a question. You cut us off.

[A]

You asked me about you, actually, and I wanted to get into the conversation, but now there's a pandering.

[B]

Well, the people want to know Logan's here. Cousin Logan. They want to know what's. What's in town for.

[A]

Okay, fine. That's fine.

[B]

What you in town for, Logan?

[C]

I'm here to, you know, I'm here to see the sights. No, I'm actually here, you know, for All Star weekend. Quick plug. I am going to be judging the G League dunk contest at the convention center, so, you know, tap in. Me and Howard motherfucking back on real ones that. That we do twice a week. That's enough promo, I think. But that's why I'm here. Just to, you know, do some work and be here in Los Angeles and.

[A]

See G League dunk contest.

[C]

Is Rachel, who I think is from. She's from Dallas, right?

[B]

I am from Dallas. I am from Dallas. Okay.

[C]

I didn't know that.

[A]

That's okay.

[B]

I didn't know you were from the Bay.

[A]

Yeah. RACHEL OFF MIC the. The degree to which Rachel doesn't know her co workers is stunning.

[B]

I know Logan. I don't know all the details.

[A]

She actually went. So Logan, whose very existence is steeped in bae. Y' all think I'm Baton Rouge. McKinley High. Logan is bae. To the bay. To the Bay. Rachel goes. She's talking to Logan about the super bowl. And she goes, how familiar are you with the bae. That's legitimate.

[B]

It's San Francisco, to be fair.

[A]

No, you said the Bay. You said the bae.

[C]

She said, quote, how familiar are you? She said, quote, I don't know how familiar you are with the Bay, but I was nuts. It's nuts.

[E]

I was nuts.

[A]

It's nuts. It's a nuts. It's a nuts situation. Okay, let's get into the show. Oh, we have Simone Sanders and Eugene Daniels. Second on the show today, new podcast, Clock It. It's presented by Ms. Now. It's on all platforms and stuff like that. Yeah, we're gonna talk to them about some things later on. These are two individuals who are very adept at talking about and really distilling informations. Informations. Information about politics and politicians. Cause they work with so many.

[B]

In an entertaining way.

[A]

In an entertaining way.

[B]

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[A]

This episode is brought to you by Firehouse Subs. Who just dropped a game changing sandwich. The French dip. Literally one of my favorite sandwiches slash subs. Roast beef, caramelized onions, melty cheese, little freshly toasted garlic butter roll and the.

[E]

Warm savory au jus.

[A]

I've been eating these forever since I was living on the east coast in la. I think to me this versus the cheesesteak, the French dip, no contest. Way better. And I think it's really because of the au jus. I don't know anybody who doesn't like au jus. An elite game day sub. Fun to order by the way, if you want it delivered because they usually put the au jus in the special little container you can pour it on, knock yourself out. The French dip here for a limited time. I wish it was longer. Only at Firehouse Subs. Limited time at participating firehouse subs restaurants while supplies last. But we're going to do quick hitters first up. Donnie, where you at? Let's talk about pillow fights. Let's talk about pillow fights.

[E]

And Ja Rule vs G unit is.

[A]

Back in the culture.

[E]

It was reignited on a Delta flight when Ja Rule was confronted by Tony.

[D]

Yayo and Uncle Murder.

[E]

It could have been the other way around, but it led to Ja Rule allegedly throwing a pillow at Yayo before being rebooked off the flight. I'll play a little bit of their back and forth and then get Yalls reaction.

[A]

Suck ass job. Ruin the plan.

[C]

Suck ass up.

[B]

Did you. Did you. Did you get. Oh my gosh. We got to bring that sound into the podcast.

[A]

Hey, hey. See that? That to me shows you guys that y' all don't give a about me. Yeah, y'.

[E]

All.

[A]

Triple. I can't hear the triple boom. I can't hear the triple boom.

[B]

I'm so glad the Bachelor doesn't have a theme song.

[A]

Can't hear the triple. Don't. Don't. I can't hear the triple boom. I'mma freak the out. Ok, Donnie, y'. All. Did y' all be doing like this on purpose? I know. By the way, I know that I'm the underdog on this podcast. Everybody else is in the back.

[D]

I'm gonna be like a lie.

[B]

When I heard the three dudes, I.

[A]

Was like, play the trip. Don't play the triple. Don't play the triple boom. Matter of fact, I'll let y' all know something. There's a lot of people out there, right? Just to let y' all know this. When I see like my friends and stuff like that people that I know and they do, like a spot on tmz. Yeah, I mute them for a while.

[B]

So it's wrong for them to do.

[A]

Not wrong. I don't wanna see it. And so if I see it, why.

[B]

Don'T you just moot? I mean, mute tmz?

[A]

I did, but, like, so I can't. I can't. I can't mute the whole thing. Cause, like, you know, sometimes Dom will pop up on there, sometimes other people pop up on there. I see it for a little while. I'll meet you for a little while. Just a little bit.

[B]

I have an interview next week on tmz.

[A]

Oh, that's nice.

[C]

I got a question.

[B]

You gonna mute me?

[A]

No, you?

[B]

I don't. I don't have a question.

[D]

Oh, you all wouldn't have a problem.

[B]

I'm just kidding.

[D]

I don't.

[B]

I don't.

[E]

I don't.

[C]

I got a question for the panel. Right. Real quick. And you guys are obviously, like, oodles more famous than I am. Right. So how do you guys deal with, like, being online while muting about you guys online?

[A]

I don't mute anything about.

[B]

I don't mute any.

[C]

You online.

[A]

No, I don't mute anything.

[B]

I don't mean anything about.

[A]

I don't mean anything about me, but.

[B]

I like to stay kind of tapped into what people are saying about me.

[A]

Yeah, you.

[B]

Like, I don't read comments, but I just, like, want to be in the know.

[A]

I want to be a part of communities where things are being discussed. So, like, when I used to go on the Reddit, I thought that that was going to be there was gonna be a part of the community. We talk, we do all kinds of things like that.

[B]

Aww. And it wasn't.

[A]

Well, it's their Reddit and so actually I feel like being on a Reddit where about your podcast is now think about it is lame as fuck because that's them. They should be able to express themselves and talk about you. What they like, what they don't like. All of that stuff. I did go on the big picture Reddit. Oh, like last this week? Earlier this week.

[B]

Is that a good thing or a.

[A]

Bad thing now they fucking hate me.

[B]

Really?

[A]

Yeah, they hate me.

[B]

Are you on the big picture that often?

[A]

I'm not. They like when I'm on the show.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

But my entire one battle after another. The whole thing. That's they movie man. That's the one battle. One battle after another is like the film bros. That's they. Kobe.

[B]

Did you see It. Logan.

[C]

What?

[B]

One battle after another.

[C]

No.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

So was that the. Was that is like the new title of the Ja Rule Tony Ao.

[A]

No, this is like. But that. That is basically what's going on. So that's that.

[C]

Cuz in that case, yes, I watched that.

[A]

That's they. That's they. That's they. Kobe. So you can't really say. So they got mad that was talking about Kobe. I went on there and said, what's up? The. The film.

[B]

Bros. Film.

[A]

I love it. Whatever. Back to this. Rachel, do you know where this comes from?

[B]

No, hold on.

[A]

Wait a second. This is very interesting to me. Rachel, $1 billion on the line. $1 billion on the line. I want you to. Your best ability to talk about why Ja Rule, Tony Yayo and Uncle Murder have be. It's a billion of. If you can explain this. If you can. If you can. Either. If you can give the broad strokes, you get a billion dollars.

[C]

From who?

[A]

For what? Don't fight the hypo. If you broad shows, you can get a billion dollars.

[B]

Well, come on. My guess would be that Tony Yayo and Uncle Murder are. Murder. Murder are attached to 50.

[A]

We on.

[B]

Okay, well, G Unit.

[A]

G Unit, yes, yes.

[C]

Cooking with Grease, Rachel.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Okay. And so we know that Ja Rule in 50 have beef, right? Like it still exists.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So just the. So I imagine that it started years ago for whatever. I don't know why that beef started, but I would imagine that that's where it comes from. Years later, they haven't gotten over it. 50 still on jaw still on him. So if G Unit or anybody affiliated with these Jaws Ja Rules on site, Guess what, Rachel.

[A]

Lindsay just made a billion dollars, guys. That's all you got to know. Now we could get into whose kid got smacked, whose house got shot up.

[B]

Damn.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

And we're working with pillows.

[A]

Hold on. Wait a second. Wait a second.

[B]

It went to a pillow.

[A]

So here's the thing. So here's the thing about this. Here's the thing about this. This is some. The. We're not gonna do a whole beef documentary DVD type of situation. But this is real shit between these crews that goes back a long way. I will say this, though. We'll say this. Ja has come out and apologized. Or not apologized, but basically apologize for. Not to Uncle Murder and to Yayo, but for putting himself in that position. Said I'm a grandfather, somebody that wants to move on and live a positive, healthy life. I should not be allowed. I should not put myself in that type of situation.

[E]

Right.

[B]

Who Threw the pillow.

[A]

They say that Jah through it. Okay, this is my thing. I get that all of this is really real and, you know, and there's been real shit that has happened and blood that has been spilled over this. I really am wondering right now, though, despite all of that, man, how the fuck long can we do shit like this? And when I say we, I'm not putting this on me. I ain't got shit to do with this. But you mean to tell me it's so up right now in this situation that we gonna have these three men who. All of them in hip hop. In hip hop. I have a lot of respect for that type of situation's going down in Delta One.

[B]

That's what I was gonna say in first class.

[A]

Just like, just, we can't sleep, lay down. And then if you want to get busy, get busy. I don't know what the fuck is going on. Just like, I saw that and I actually felt bad about it. I understand. I just feel bad that you. You have to hold on to that type of negativity for that long. I get not wanting to fuck with nobody, not wanting to be around nobody. This has been going on for such a long time. I would love to see, and I think a lot of people would love to see some kind of way to be able to let this shit go, man. I don't know. I don't know. I get it. Logan.

[B]

Logan.

[C]

First of all, it was just hilarious that it has devolved into a pillow fight on first class. I would be fucking pissed if I'm just trying to chill and have my flight to New York or wherever. And I'm just chilling. I'm about to got my pillow, I'm about to fall back, and I just see three dudes out here filming each other and throwing pillows and stuff. Part of me, like, as a child, I'm like the inner child of me is like, this is like crazy because this is like what the manifestation of this beef has become. But the other part of it that I. That I just think about, like, in terms of, like, how this gets resolved, I think a real a model for all these parties is what happened between Gucci and Jeezy, right? Where they can both exist in the world and not necessarily have to go at each other all the time. But I think that's just the media market in the media world that we're in right now, right? Where life with social media life has become like the biggest reality show no matter what, right? Like, as soon as this ends, Tony Yayo is getting on with Vlad tv, and then, like, they're leaking stuff to TMZ about videos and just trying to get ahead of the narrative for people on the Internet, where this all started as, like, we all just trying to get to wherever we're trying to get to. And it's just evolved in that there was just so many places that I could take it. But I think that they honestly should just be adults and kind of just. We got beef. It is beef. But, like, when we see each other, we don't gotta necessarily, like, fight each other. We just, like, live in the world. I don't fuck with you. Don't fuck with me.

[A]

The deal is, like, I get that the beef is serious. I understand the beef is serious. Yeah, bullets and flown. All kinds of things happen. The beef is serious. I understand that. But don't the healing have to be serious, too? Like, to me, I get it, man. It's a bunch of people that's going to listen to this and be like, van don't understand. Understand street shit. Van don't understand. Hey, got it. Y' all got it. Y' all got the whole thing, right? Y' all don't understand. Like, if. If it's a serial killer in my neighborhood, I'm gonna call the police, right? That's. I'm not street. Like, you know, That's. I'm not, you know, And I don't like the cops, and I don't. But I'm not street. But what I'm saying is, I get that we take the beef serious. That we understand it is real shit why people don't like each other. My question is, do we take the healing serious? Is it serious to heal? Is it serious to get over it? Is it serious to move past it? How serious is that? Can we set aside some seriousness for that part of it?

[B]

I agree with you, but when you talk about it and I think of G Unit, I think of 50, and he doesn't let anything go.

[A]

He doesn't.

[B]

So I think that that conversation almost has to be directed to clearly the person who is the face of it, who has had the most success from the group, who. Who seems to be. I'm not. Well, I don't know about that part, but just seems to be, like, the leader of it. And he is constantly not letting things go and trolling people, not even to the point of just holding it on internally, but making a public display of it all. So, like, your question is well warranted, but it's like, it also needs to be directed at. Cause like, we don't necessarily have this conversation when we see 50 do something on social media where he's constantly doing stuff. I mean, I'm glad that the Diddy documentary came out, but I'm just saying it was also a part of him just holding on, but he's constantly doing this. So I think it's a bigger conversation to have within. To have within the community. But also it's. With this, too. It's like the. I didn't even know about the part about leaking stuff to the media and trying to get ahead of the narrative, which is almost also, like, nobody's even really talking about G Unit like that or Ja Rule. And so, like, for this to be the conversation that we're talking about or you're trying to leak more information and bring more attention to it is wild to me. But just the entire setup of. Of it. All right, you. You touched on it when you said Delta 1. You guys aren't in the streets. It's not. It's not that life you are riding in for. It's better than first class in Delta 1 in live flats with. Where seats are several thousand dollars, and you're bringing in, like. So it's like, what are we fighting about? Like, you. You've elevated to a certain level. You are clearly doing better for yourselves than when you started in all of this. And you gonna argue in Delta 1 and fight with pillows. That's a L right there. And the second L is the fight was so intense, Ja Rule had to rebook his flight.

[A]

Well, I mean, that's a whole nother thing.

[B]

You missed the flight.

[A]

So this. So this is why I'll say to all of that. Number one, once again, we talked about it earlier before we got on here. If I see something from tmz, I'll mute it, right? Like, if I see something from. Why will I do that? The reason why is this. When I got fired from tmz, TMZ went out of their way to make me look like a rampaging white boy choking thug.

[B]

Nathan.

[A]

It was like me. Whatever happened, all of that stuff, it is what it is. But everybody knows. Everybody knows that that's not me. And I felt a significant amount of betrayal from a place where everyone knows me and they still went that route. That is what it is. Okay? Like, the healing doesn't even have to come from not liking somebody. The healing doesn't even have to come sometimes. The healing is knowing how to comport yourself in a way that you don't allow yourself to get triggered. Like Healing is, hey, that go rule, that go murder, that go, yay, yo, we on the plane. Fuck it. Even if it's. Even if you take a video and post a fucking video. But all of that, that tells me that them feelings are still live, right? And look, it's all kinds of shit behind it. It's shit where people didn't allegedly been hit with bullets and there's a light. There's all kinds of shit behind it. I get it. I understand it. But at some point, man, you. You can't live in 2000, 2001, 2003, no more. You just can't do it.

[C]

I had a question. How did. What do we think about. Just like, there's also a version of this where, you know, when you are in the public eye, like, you want to continue to be in the public eye, especially if being in the public eye is your. The. Your business, right? And you, in the name of the business, is keeping the spectacle going for your brand, right? How much do you think of that is playing a part in this, Right? Because as soon as this happens, like Tony Ayo's, like I said, going to Vlad TV to talk about it, his whole brand over the last two years has been very entertaining. But like, it's. Let's talk about the good old days. Let's talk about eating duck in Morocco. My question is, how much do you think this is a. Also a version of that where we're just trying to just keep the spectacle going because that's how we get more attention for ourselves. That's how we, you know, 50 is the head of this, and he has been honest in saying that, you know, sometimes he uses beef just to, you know, market himself and like, even beef with others, whether it's real or not to market himself. How much do you think that played a part in keeping just the spectacle going so everybody gets more attention for.

[A]

Whatever their businesses are?

[C]

How much you think that played a part into this?

[A]

Yeah, that's definitely a part of it. That's like a. That's a. That's a huge part of it. I will say that even though you can acknowledge that that's a part of it and also acknowledge that it's really not an explanation for how fucked up that looked like, man. There are a lot of conversations. I know people die down on it. I know this is rich coming from me with my history and my past, but, man, dawg, we don't have time for 50, murder and yayo in first class right now. We don't, man. And like, when you see Ja Rule come out and say, yo, that's not how I want to be. I respect that. Like I respect that also. I honestly, I honestly hope that even if this animus lasts forever that they can get in a situation where they're not so triggered by everything that's going on.

[B]

Yeah, you hope so.

[A]

Hopeful. Casey Wasserman, are you aware of this?

[B]

I have been looking at it.

[A]

Yet Donnie say something about Casey Wasserman. Who to get into the story, Donnie.

[E]

In that huge 3 million something page dump of Epstein files, they show that Casey Wasserman, who is a powerful entertainment and sports executive and head of the Wasserman talent Agency, exchanged emails with Epstein associate Ghislaine Maxwell years before her conviction. In response to this revelation. Artists including Chaperone and Orville Peck have publicly cut ties with Wasserman's agency or called for his resignation, saying that they can't be represented by a company led by someone linked to those documents. Wasserman has not though been accused of any crimes.

[A]

So it looked like he was feeding for some. Some galang.

[B]

Yeah, it was. But it doesn't matter. People are still upset.

[A]

It doesn't matter. Yeah. Hell no. I'm looking at Orville Pick. I don't think I knew over Pick. He got a mask on. He's a lone ranger.

[B]

No, he's. No, he's not the.

[A]

He looked like the lone Ranger to me this Deggo. Orville Pick, right? He got the white hat, he got the mask on. He's widely known for often wearing a mask and not showing his face publicly.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Country singer picking it up.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, he left. He said he can't fuck with a chaperone. Left. A lot of people are leaving. They're not fucking with Wasserman like that.

[B]

Yeah, they're not. But I think the bigger story is like Casey Wasserman and his ties to the Olympics and people are upset. You know, obviously anybody's name who's mentioned, you know, it causes people to raise an eyebrow. And then when you dig into how is your name mentioned and no, in the files that we have so far, his name isn't mentioned directly to Jeffrey Epstein, but it is to Ghislaine Maxwell who we know is serving time in prison for sex trafficking. That is not the subject matter of their emails. It's the two of them together, which he was married at the time. But it's still this link, right? It's. It makes people, you know, maybe assume facts that aren't there or it at least causes People to say, hmm, well, what are we not saying? You know, it opens the door for. Well, what wasn't in the email? How long did you guys talk? What kind of. You obviously talked in other ways outside of email. Just. You can tell that from the way of the conversation. So how long did this relationship last? What, you know, like, who else was involved? What. What things were you doing when you were hanging out with her? We know what she's about, but it just leaves the door open. And I think that that's the problem that people have. I think the problem also people have is that there are LA Los Angeles politicians who are calling for him to resign from the LA28 board in regards to the Olympics. And he is not. You know, he said he deeply regrets the communications he had with Ghislaine Maxwell, but he has not offered to step down. He has not said anything in regards to his company, which leaves the employees and the company itself having to deal with this backlash and losing clients and losing brands and business and all of that. And so I think people are like, we want to see more from you. And people are saying they want. They're kind of holding the LA28 board to a certain standard and saying there are all these prominent people in business and in sports and entertainment that are a part of this who are backing Casey Wasserman because they're not calling for him to be removed from the board, which, you know, I see. I. I don't know. I don't know how I feel about that.

[A]

So 1. So one of the emails, this is in 2003, says, Casey, I will be coming back to New York.

[B]

Let Logan read it.

[A]

Logan, you want to read this? Read this email. Well, we don't have an email form.

[B]

Oh, okay, okay, okay.

[A]

So it's like, casey, I will be coming back to New York tomorrow, late afternoon. I shall be wearing a tight leather flying suit. Psycho. Whilst in New York without me. What would you like to do? What time would you land? I think of you all the time. So what do I have to do to see you in a tight leather outfit? I'm in New York tonight. You're not. What am I to do? Xoxo. Okay, so look.

[B]

Who wrote that? Ghislaine.

[A]

Ghislaine wrote that Wasserman hit back. So a lot of people are saying that is evidence that Wasserman was actually looking not just for a little fun time with Ghislaine Maxwell, but a little fun time maybe with some of the people that Ghislaine Maxwell could provide to him. Because it seems clear there that he said, hey, I'm. You're not going to be here, I'm going to be there. You're not going to be there. What am I to do? Like, what's going to happen? And then she kind of answers back in kind. People are thinking maybe in some sort of way he wasn't just seeing Ghislaine Maxwell, but then also was taking advantage of the services.

[B]

Open for interpretation.

[A]

You guys should know that, uh, he runs the Wasserman Agency. We've talked about this before, but he is a legacy at this. His. He founded Wasserman, but like his grandfather, his grandfather Lou Wasserman is a gigantic name in talent management. And this is one of the Los Angeles elites. Story is interesting for me for two reasons. Number one, we've talked about the Epstein class and the blowback that will come for being a part of this. There's a hesitancy there that I'm seeing from a lot of different people. Peter Attia, who is a wellness doctor who also has had close ties to Epstein, was supposed to have a new job, a new role with cbs. And while that role and that job after these files seems to be in some sort of peril, you also see Bari Weiss and the people over at CBS a little hesitant to make that move. Consequences as it relates to being involved, near wrapped up into this whole thing. They're slower to come than people might think that they are. Like, to your point, there haven't been any new cases brought, right? At least as of yet. There's a whole bunch of talk about what these unredacted files are going to mean. And even socially we've identified a lot of people that were in this world, but nothing's happened yet until now. You're seeing major, major. Some smaller things have happened, but you're seeing major talent, major stars move away from Wasserman and his group. So I don't want to be involved with them anymore. And you're seeing the town at least partly put the LA28 Olympic Committee in traction about their connection to him. I think once a move like this is taken and somebody actually pays, that the floodgates could be opened for accountability for a lot more people that had connections to Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell.

[B]

And I think that's the hesitation that I agree. You know, it's like once one person goes down or once someone folds in regards to holding someone accountable, then it's like fair game for anyone else. Which is a crazy thing to say because at the end of the day. You know, I don't know what's going to happen with, I mean, Wasserman's name. It's on the agency, you know, that he might lose clients or whatever, but I don't think it's going to completely take away from what they're doing over there or take the business away. But he was so involved with the bid for to get the 2028 games and led a successful campaign and is so behind, you know, as the chairman overseeing the organizing, the planning, the financing of the 2028 Olympic and Paralympic Games that it's almost, I'm sure the board is like, how can we remove him when he led this campaign to get it here? He's been overseeing everything. They're looking at the business of it all and are hesitant to the point that you're making about removing someone or him with that kind of power. Which goes back to how the people that are being named are all in this certain class of people.

[A]

Steve Tisch, right now, the co owner of the Giants, under a tremendous amount of pressure, particularly because it seems as if they're not just people like Wasserman who had close ties, were involved with Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell. But then there are also people who have lied about the degree to which they were close to them.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

Steve Tish seems to have clearly lied about what he called a sort of brief relationship that he had with Jeffrey Epstein. It looks as if the new drop shows Steve Tisch sort of giving Jeffrey Epstein advice. Right. And you have him and then you have another gigantic liar, Howard Lutnick. Howard Ludnick is a fucking liar, guys. Okay, Howard Lucknick is on record. This is a member of Trump's cabinet is on record saying that he didn't want to have anything to do with Jeffrey Epstein after a certain time. And we know now from emails that that is a lie.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So the question is, is he lying to protect his reputation? Because we know all of this. I'm sure that that's a part of it. Or is there a deeper and more fundamental relationship between Lutnick and Epstein, between Tish and Epstein that these people don't want to talk about? Is the, is the nature of the relationship what they don't want to talk about? And not just specifically that there was a relationship because remember after the late 2000s, Jeffrey Epstein, sweetheart deal given by Alex Acosta, there's not a lot of reason for anyone to have had association with him unless they didn't give a fuck about it. I will say this, there's a double edged sword in podcasting around this too. For some reason, Joe Rogan is platforming guests, maybe because he's had so many people from the Epstein class on his podcast. Joe Rogan is platforming guests who are doing a, a soft shoe here. They're sort of explaining why the Epstein situation is different than people might have said that it was. They're doing a whole deal here. It's like a really interesting conversation that he just had on this part where this guy is talking about how girls sweeten deals and some of the, even the underage girls. That's a thing that exists in other cultures. And you got to consider that that happened on, on, on Joe Rogan's show. I will say this, though, if you read the new files, there seemed to have been in 2016 or 2017, direct effort from Epstein and the people around him to get to Joe Rogan. Like, we want to have dinner with Joe Rogan, we want to hang out with Joe Rogan, we want to do all of this stuff. It looks as if, it looks as if, and I just have to bring this up, that Rogan did research on Jeffrey Epstein and said, no, there was another comic who did go to one dinner and then after the dinner went, hey man, this was cool, but I can't fucking be around you. There are people to say, and for whatever bizarre reason that Rogan is. I don't know if he's working on behalf of the President or I don't know if he's working on behalf of Elon Musk or whomever that might be involved in that. Whatever reason that they're doing the deal on the podcast, it seems like it's, it's, it's, it's. I don't have any ambiguity about what's going on there. It seems like they're trying to soften the blow for this group of people, but there are people, and he seems to have been one of them, that were offered entree into this world and said no.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So that just makes everybody else look worse. Yeah, that, that just makes everybody else look. They seem. There are some people that went, nah, not, not for me. Yeah, not for me.

[B]

I mean, you're right. When you talk about, are you lying because of the reputation or are you lying because there's something to cover up? I think that when you bring up a Joe Rogan or you bring up even a Katie Couric who went to dinner and talked about, and I think she publicly talked about this before, but like, it's in the files how weird it was and then was like, I don't want any. I don't want to be a part of it all. It's like you keep hearing these stories that people that were. That maybe did go to a lunch, a dinner, or maybe went to a residence where he was involved, talk about how strange and how creepy it was that they removed themselves. It seems to be a consistent thing. And then there are the people who didn't remove themselves, who continued whatever type of relationship. And it goes back to what I'm saying about Casey.

[D]

It.

[B]

Obviously, the reputation thing makes sense, but the second part of it, it leaves the door, the room for open interpretation because you just don't know. And you're asking yourself why, when you felt it was off, you could have detached and you didn't. Did you stay because it was powerful? Did you stay? It was because connection. Did you stay because, you know, you felt like you were being, I don't know, threatened in a certain way, or is it because you just wanted to be participate in the things that you were saying? The thing is, we don't know.

[A]

Well, I think there's a couple of things here. Number one, first of all, I think I know why a lot of these people were saying were staying. If you look at the guys that are wrapped up in a lot of this stuff, you look at a certain caliber of person, sure, but you're also looking at a person that Epstein could dangle this sort of boundaryless hedonism and abuse to people that liked the idea of being with younger women. Like, when you hear some of these emails, these people are like, my God, I can be my true self. This is all the eyes wide shut up wear, masked lizard people that like to drink the blood of the young. This is all of it. This is any movie you've ever watched where somebody walks into a room with people and then they walk into another room, and then all of a sudden, these people become these ravenous beasts where there's no sense of morality. And y' all know, I'm not trying to moralize, but there's no sense of even safety or who. They just can become completely different people. It seemed like Jeffrey Epstein was an entry into that world for a lot of people, and they became addicted to it. He was a drug dealer, and that drug dealer was a certain hedonistic, abusive, perverse freedom that these gentlemen did not feel like they had the opportunity to express anywhere else.

[B]

It also taps into when you talk about the addiction, when people reach a certain level and they've made so much money and they have so much power and they're so connected, and there's almost like they get bored. Like, what else can you do? What else can I connect to? What else can I tap into that other people can't do, but I can do because I'm in a certain group or I have a certain amount of money or I know a certain person it becomes addicted to. Well, what's next? What else can I do? That's what it seems like. This is a part of it as well, which is disgusting.

[A]

So let me ask you this. And you know, once again, I firmly believe, as Logan does, that Jeffrey Epstein was a foreign intelligence asset. It just doesn't make any sense. Like, it. You just guys, it. Nothing else makes sense. There's something like, just do your own research. I hate when I say this, but, like, I hate to do your own research because every time you ask somebody to do your own research, they come back and tell you that, like, distilled water cures cancer or some like that. You know what I'm saying? So, like, it's like. But if you look into Jeffrey Epstein, there's really no accounting for why he became so rich. He definitely was a master investor, maybe could have been a master launderer. Somebody positioned Jeffrey Epstein in the place to be who he became, which was someone that had all these types of secrets and had all this access to all of these people in so many different disciplines. But we don't have to go back over that. It seems like you've turned the corner on the Epstein thing.

[B]

I've changed my tune completely. Bethany.

[A]

Yeah, we all. We know that you hadn't really looked into it.

[B]

No, no, no, it's not that.

[A]

Yeah, that's what happened.

[B]

We knew that the whole time you.

[A]

Were sitting over there, you really hadn't done the work.

[B]

Okay, Is that what this is turning into?

[A]

Nah, we know. We knew that as soon as you. As soon as you picked it up, you was going to be with us. That's what we knew.

[B]

It's not that I'm not with you. It's. First off, I'm not reading through 11 million. I mean, millions of pages of documents. And I'm not staying up late at night like you typing people's names into the search bar, trying to figure out, did you put. How did you put. Did you put your name in? Did you put my name in?

[A]

I put your dad's name in.

[B]

Damn. And of course, because you know, if you. If you did. If you did, because, you know, you used to always make the joke. Oh, he was flying on the plane. He always make that joke just because.

[A]

He'S friends with Bill. Bill Clinton.

[B]

He's not. Bill Clinton nominated him as he does many a district judges on the federal level. But I, I'm not used typing in into the search bar trying to figure things out.

[A]

However, that's my job. Right.

[B]

I think. But, but here's, but, but here's the thing. It's not my job.

[C]

It's your job to stalk your co workers.

[A]

What you doing my job to look up their parents. No, no, no, no, no. I didn't really look up Rachel.

[C]

I don't believe.

[A]

Rachel. Rachel. No.

[B]

Just for fun, like you put your name in, didn't you?

[A]

The only. No, I never put my name in. I knew I wouldn't have run it. The only way Rachel would have gone to the Epstein party is if it was sponsored by fanatics.

[B]

And you know what? And guess what, and guess what. You know whose party I didn't go to for Super Bowl?

[A]

Who?

[B]

Fanatics. See, I actually wasn't at the fanatics party.

[A]

Hey, if it was sponsored by raising canes, you would have been.

[B]

It wouldn't be.

[A]

I definitely would have.

[B]

Wouldn't be. It wouldn't be because we, because we.

[D]

Because it wouldn't be.

[B]

So I'm not even gonna entertain that.

[A]

But what I'm saying is, what I'm saying is like yeah, I'm. I'm into this.

[B]

It's not that I'm not. I'm not like obsessive over it. Right. Like you said, like there's nothing. If something drops, you're stopping everything to do it. For me, I guess I obviously think it's necessary as I talked to, we talked to with Ro Khanna when he was here, that somebody has to keep that pressure and somebody has to keep that foot to neck. I agree with that. I think my frustration comes in. There's clearly something that's going down here. There's clearly something that you're keeping from us. But when you have the president who's they're saying, whose name is mentioned over 38,000 times and you have an administration that we see continues to protect him and make excuses for him and they continue to deflect for him. It became frustrating for me of I want the people who are in the fight to keep fighting. But for me I was just, I'm just like, I'm paying attention to it, but I'm focusing on other issues that I feel like are just as important, you know. So that was my Thing until I watched the Bondi hearing.

[A]

Yeah. See, Hell, yeah.

[B]

And I was a little mad at myself. Cause I'm sure I come off as a little flippant, which I wanna be very clear. I'm obviously very concerned about the victims and upset that their information has been put out there. And they seem to be. They are the ones who suffered and who were impacted and who were harmed, yet they are the ones not being protected in all of this. That's very frustrating to me. But I feel like I'm flipping, as in, like, here we go, some more stuff. Because I'm like, we're never going to get to the meat of it. We're never going to get where we want to. But then I saw the Bondi hearing and I was not shocked because we saw her do this with the Senate. But I think I was just. It was how rude she was, how condescending she was, how childish, that she was clearly lying and just very unlikable. And there was such a clear deflection of every question that was asked of her that I thought, okay, I think, how could you watch this and not be like, who are you protecting and what are you protecting? The purpose of the Department of Justice is to uphold the rule of law to keep our country safe and protect civil rights. The role of the Attorney General who acts as the chief legal officer and top law enforcement official. Official, who's representing the public interest in legal matters and who the key purpose is advising the executive branch and prosecuting crimes and enforcing civil rights. How can that be the purpose of this department that Pam Bondi is in charge of. How can that be her role? And there was nothing that showed in that hearing that she was there to protect the public interest or uphold the rule of law to keep the country safe. Which she said in her opening statements. She said that she is about protecting America. She gave all these examples about how crime is down and how her goal is to protect America. But you're sitting in front of people who were harmed, who were violated, and you can talk about protecting America, but you can't talk about protecting Americans like the sexual assault survivors who were standing right behind you and you couldn't even turn around and apologize or face them directly. Like it was the most pick me behavior that I have seen in a long time on full display. And she is a living example of why the patriarchy can continue to exist because it is helped and up and big upped by women like Pam Bondi. It was so disgusting, the way that she was acting. Clearly trying to seek the approval of men, but particularly one men, one man, Donald Trump. And as I, I don't even have to list all the things out. I mean, we can talk about them as we continue to have this conversation. But all the things that came out during the hearing of whether it was, you're not giving all the documents and asking why, who are these co conspirators and why aren't they being investigated? Are they being investigated? Okay, well, where are you in this investigation? Just a laundry list of things that were coming out or lies that were told by Cash Patel that since the more documents have come out have proven not to be true. And all you did was turn pages in your burn book and point out to each politician that you were talking about about what was happening in their district or bringing up the Dow Jones or whatever it may be. And it was clear that she was about prioritizing the stock market over sexual assault, because that's what she was there for about the Epstein files. She was clearly about prioritizing personal attacks over facts. And I just feel like this hearing revealed so much. And if your goal was to have this platform where you were going to stand toe to toe with Democrats and call them out on the, on quote, unquote, their hypocrisy or things that you feel like they're not doing right and are not for the benefit of this country, I think you fell tremendously because all it revealed to somebody like me was who might have felt like, oh, there's too much, there's so much information, or this is a Trump administration who's just protecting him. It enraged me. I thought it was embarrassing that as somebody who took an oath and who practiced law and who used to revere these positions within our government, it was embarrassing for me to watch this woman call herself an attorney general. It was just, it just, it really made me upset to watch. And you have reinvigorated something for me, or maybe not even reinvigorated just put lit a fire in me that maybe wasn't even there about now I'm tapped in and I think it had the opposite effect to a lot of people maybe who felt like me or maybe who didn't want to read all the files and all this stuff was coming out in a way that was a little bit more digestible to them. And they're asking the questions, what is going on? And if you, if you are the party of transparency, why are you not being transparent? And why can't you answer simple questions? If the goal is to protect children, to protect Your victims and to call out this elite system or these corrupt politicians that exist. Instead, you were hiding it all. And I think that this personally, this win, this hearing was a win for the Democrats.

[D]

I tapped in.

[A]

Tapped in. Well, I'll tell you something about the way I look at it. I mean, it didn't make me mad because there's this great part on this Jay electronica song and it comes from Willy Wonka and the Cholka Factory, I think, and it says, do you marvel at a bird when it flies?

[B]

Not me.

[A]

Do you marvel at a fish when it swims? No. Because that's what they were made to do. Like when you see someone that is serving their function, that's what they were made to do. That's what their purpose is supposed to be. Pam Bomb. Pam Bondi was not just the, not just the Attorney General of the United States of America. She also was the Attorney General in Florida from 2011 to 2019. And during her time as Attorney General General in Florida, she did not bring state level charges against Jeffrey Epstein. Pam Bondi is right now, Bondi, she is in the position that she is in purposefully as number one reward, in my opinion, for not doing that.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Just as Alice Acosta was elevated to a cabinet level position for the sweetheart deal that he gave Jeffrey Epstein, he was rewarded for the way that he handled that. She was rewarded by being able to lead the DOJ because of the fact that she went easy on Jeffrey Epstein. Her purpose, her flying as a bird, her swimming as a fish, is to do what she did in front of Congress.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That is what she is there for. She is there to do that. All the other shit that we are talking about as in terms of how these people are supposed to function, no one in Trump's orbit is there for that. Hexeth isn't there to restore lethality to the United States arms, Armed Forces, Lutnick, Besant, all of these people aren't there to figure out what's best for the United States financially. Now, Pam Bondi isn't there to protect and uphold the rights of victims or to do any of that other shit. That's not why they're there. They're there at the whim of the President to destabilize, to act upon the President's goals and wishes. And they're being rewarded for the fact that in the past they have exhibited the ability to do that. Pam Bondi is being rewarded for the fact that she took it easy on Jeffrey Epstein for an entire decade and she's taking it easy on him now because all of this shit is set up in a gigantic reward structure that rewards people for protecting this shit that has been going on.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That is why singers and actors and people of the like that just go, hey, I don't want to be around this.

[E]

This.

[A]

That's why people empowering themselves with the knowledge of what's going on and asking questions about the luminaries that they respected. And there are going to be guys, some people that you really love that are going to be involved in this stuff. There's going to be. The best that you can do is ask questions about the depth of their involvement when they knew what they knew, all of that stuff. That's why it's actually incumbent upon you to be a part of the responsibility that you want to see from the powerful and not just in this Jeffrey Epstein thing, period. Man. Talking about this, we're going to talk about this with Simone and Eugene about how we get past identity, about how we get past our own bias to just get to what works for people. James Van De Be died, right?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Recipes. James Van De Beek. This has nothing to do with Epstein. James Van Der Beek died right now. Now there are people talking about their opinions about James Van Der Beek, right? His politics and all that stuff.

[B]

Oh, I haven't seen anything.

[A]

Right. So some people are talking about his. His wife was an anti vaxxer. James Vanderbeek might have been Mag or whatever, whatever, you know, rest in peace. To. To. Mocks to Dawson, to. To. To James Vanderbeek who died of cancer. Rest in peace. He passed away. He was an actor that had to have some means, right? I'm not saying he, he got rich, but he was probably doing better than the average American.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

Sure. He has passed away. And his family.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's crowdfunding.

[B]

I know. I'm looking it up right now to see how much.

[A]

Right. His family is crowdfunded from the children. They could be up to a half a million dollars in debt. Right?

[B]

1.6 million.

[A]

$1.6 million in debt.

[B]

No, no, raised.

[A]

Excuse me, Raised so far, which is fantastic. Right. We care about James Van Der Beek. We care about Dawson. We care about Jonathan Moxon.

[B]

Care about the kids.

[A]

We care about the kids. Right.

[B]

His wife, all of it.

[A]

Do you have any idea right now, I'm not about to start preaching. I'm gonna make this short. Do you have any idea how many people in America right now are stricken with cancer or stricken with other diseases or living with chronic diseases? That are going broke because of the American health care system. And they never went no TV shows for you. They didn't dance or sing. They kids right now are going to have to live with tremendous debt and burden. You don't know who they are. Is a. Look, if you hear about them is luck if anybody gives a fuck about them. Because we won't address fundamental issues, cracks in the American system of how we care for one another and about the priorities that we make important. We talk about a whole bunch of other things except is it fucking right for somebody to die because they get sick? And the same way that the powerful insulate themselves from criticism and investigation about the children that they are abusing, they also insulate themselves from investigation about the systems that they have created and participated in that continue to immiserate Americans generation after generation after generation. A lot of these parties and stuff like that, that's like the secret parties of all.

[E]

It's.

[A]

A lot of them is sponsored by Pfizer. Like, a lot of them have to do with big Pharma, and a lot of them have to do with big Oil, and a lot of them have to do with big whatever the fuck it is. All of that stuff, criticizing all of this stuff, sitting in my corporate chair in my corporate place in corporate Los Angeles. I get it. But I'm telling everyone out there that curiosity into the reason why the thing that you need to change won't change is the only thing possible that can bring power to account. And so for me, when I look at all of this, she up there doing what she's supposed to do. She didn't already done it, which is why she was rewarded. And. And you know, you know, we talk a lot about, you know, sometimes I. I go too far, you know, talking about, you know, we different. All right, I'm a bleeding heart. I don't really give a. Whatever. I get it. I go too far. I get it. I get. I go too far. I get it. You guys feel like I go too far. Everybody gets mad. Van wants everything to be free. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Tell you what though. I know one thing. I know that protecting children should not be controversial. And also people going broke because they got sick should not be controversial either. So I personally see a lot of through lines in all of these situations. And I'm just wondering right now. Talk later about it. I'm just wondering right now, like, it's like Jerry Maguire. You see that one? Yes, I did see J. I know you like that. That's a rage coded Movie.

[D]

Why?

[A]

Because a couple of reasons. It's about true love.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Which rage cares about?

[B]

Football.

[A]

Football. Okay. Rod Tidwell. You're basically the Rod Titwell of the Bachelorette.

[B]

Am I?

[A]

Yeah, you rot it well.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Like you Rod Titwell and I'm like Aries Spears as Rod T. Well's brother.

[B]

I don't know. I don't know if they ever really showed me the money.

[A]

Who? The Bachelor. Yeah. You got showed the money from some people, though. You're doing good. I've been to the crib.

[B]

I'm doing good because I worked hard on my own.

[A]

I know, but. But you are about to. But you were like a raw Titwell.

[E]

Okay.

[A]

Okay. So I don't know. Who would be your Jerry Maguire? Molly?

[C]

No.

[A]

Who would be your Jerry Maguire?

[B]

Well, Jerry helped.

[A]

Everybody should be asking themselves this question. Who would be your Jerry Maguire? Logan, who's your Jerry Maguire?

[E]

Oh, my Jerry.

[A]

Is there a white man going through a middle life crisis that has really helped you.

[C]

Is it Connor Nevins?

[A]

Oh, Connor. You know who that is? You don't. I know.

[B]

He's at the ringer.

[A]

Yeah, he's at the ringer? Yeah.

[B]

Who's yours?

[A]

I don't know. I don't think I have one. But look, he lied. No, he knows. He don't want to say it, but, like, anyway, all I'm saying, it's like in that situation, in the Jerry. In the Jerry Maguire situation of it all, I just personally am wondering who's coming with me? Like Jerry said when he got fired, who's coming with me? Who's coming with me? Who's coming with me?

[B]

I think I'm with you. I think. And I think, listen, bottom line, watching this hearing, there's a cover up. If you didn't think it before, you had to see it. And yes, you are so right about Bondi and why she got that job and what her purpose was there for. And even if you. Let's just say most people might not be familiar with her being the attorney general in Florida, and even if they are familiar with that and that's her resume, they may not be familiar with the fact that Epstein was being investigated while she was there or. And they failed to have any charges against him in the state of Florida, like, that all may be true, but most people probably don't know that. If they watch this, if they saw the news on this or this covered, I don't know how you can't watch it and ask yourself these questions of what's really going on. And why is this so hard for you? Bottom line, at the end of the day, after this hearing, you cannot have watched it, watch snippets of it. It's all over social media, watched it on the news coverage and not thought there's a cover up. And there is a smugness and a hypocrisy that is existing within this administration that clearly was on display. And it's been on display. Right. But it was so outright and outrageous that I don't know how someone to your point can't come with you. Can't start asking those questions. Can't be curiosity. It's why I've changed my tune. I watched it. I wrote to the group chat, I said, guys, I have something. I have to confess something. I changed my tune and I'm sorry. I should have been there from the beginning. I should have been there from the beginning.

[A]

But now, now we gotta get. I gotta send you videos. I gotta get you with Ryan Grimm drop site news. Shout out to Ryan Graham drop site.

[B]

Somebody referenced that to me the other day.

[A]

Where are you at on Epstein, Logan? It's travesty. It's gross.

[C]

Everything in it is gross and it's repulsive. That's all I got.

[A]

That's all you got?

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And that's all true?

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

How does Epstein over overlap with the NBA? If someone were to ask you this, Logan Murdoch, how does Epstein overlap with the NBA? Talk to us. Which. Which NBA players would be most.

[C]

I would say that remains to be seen. Rachel, I have a question for you really quickly.

[B]

This is what Pam Bondi was doing in the hearings.

[A]

You changed the subject.

[C]

Rachel, how do you deal with the awkwardness that like Van just throws your way? Like every, like whenever, like there's like silent quiet time. He just says some like wild shit just put you on the spot. How do you deal with it? Because that's what I'm trying to figure it right now. I was just like checking my phones. I was getting ready. We got the studio later that we're about to do a podcast on. I'm preparing for that. And then I get asked this question out of nowhere. Like, how do you deal with just the random, just awkward moments that he provides?

[B]

It's a good question. And honestly I have. I don't even think about it. I've been doing this with Van for five and a half years now at this point, which is crazy to say. And I don't feel. I don't ever really feel awkward.

[C]

I don't expect you never Feel awkward.

[B]

I'm so used to it now. That's like, okay, one time. I'm not saying it hasn't happened.

[D]

You literally.

[C]

Last time I was on, we both did. I think we, like, trauma bonded over, maybe, so.

[E]

You know what I mean?

[B]

But I'm just so used to it. I'm like, that's just Van. Okay, that's just Van. But I'm. But you got to come more often. And you, too. You too, Will. I'm pulling up.

[C]

You know, I'm here every time I'm in L. A. And also, second question to that question. This is for me and Van. This is, you know, big bro, little bro, talk real quick. What is goes through your mind when, like, there's just an awkward silence? Is it just like, I'm just going to make this weird as possible, or is it like, I really want to know your opinion about this?

[A]

I love. I love inciting people and making them feel awkward, because I feel awkward at all times.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

I almost never feel, like, comfortable. Yeah. It's very difficult. And so me making other people feel awkward is bonding and inclusion.

[C]

What about, like, okay, what about, like, when I send you, like, random webby at, like, 9 at night just to bond like that, and you don't respond? Like, when I just say, like, yo, this was the shit. Remember, like, what normal bros do, right? Like, you know what I'm saying? Like, when I just send you some, like, an article and I get no response. But, like, let me. Can I just go to one of our text messages really quickly?

[A]

You can.

[B]

I know I respond. That's. Yeah, you don't. You're not a good texter.

[C]

No, no, no, no, no, no. That's. He's a great texture.

[A]

The Webby situation, when I hear the records, it takes me back to Baton Rouge. What happens is.

[B]

Oh, Webbie, I don't know what I was thinking. Wait, what about webbing?

[C]

This is something that, like, okay, this is a perfect example, right? Because I'm a fan of the show. I watch this all the time. I saw the Joy Taylor interview, and I was like, this is really great work from both of you guys. So I. I was really happy about. This is like, July 25th, and I text Van. I said, great job on the Joy interview. He responds back, I've killed before.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And I'm just like, yo, bro. Like, you can't just say thank you.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

You know what I'm saying?

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. You know, like, yeah.

[D]

So let me.

[B]

Let me. Let me help. Let me make you feel better when I didn't really know Van as well. And we were supposed to start. We were supposed to start this podcast in March 2020.

[C]

Sure.

[B]

Obviously, Covid hit and it was pushed back, and we didn't end up starting till May 2020. I don't know Van that well.

[E]

Yeah.

[B]

So I'm trying to, like, get to know Van and send text messages. And I text Van and I can't remember. I might have said, like, hey, this is Rachel. Or, you know, like, hey, just seeing how you're doing. And he was like, who is this? I don't think I said it's Rachel. I just assumed he had my number. And he was like, who is this? And I'm like, it's Rachel. And he was like. And I'm paraphrasing this, and you might remember, but he was like, no, who the fuck is this? Like, I got killers with me or something like that.

[C]

Fuck, bro.

[B]

And I don't know him that well.

[C]

I know.

[B]

So I'm like, so. It was awkward, but I was a little scared, but I was confused. And I was like, is he playing. I don't know his sense of humor like that. And then he was like, no, I'm serious. Like, on this, on that, on that. I'll have people come up. He, like, started naming all this stuff, and he was like, you don't understand what I do. I.

[E]

And I was like, to be fair, though, Rachel.

[B]

This is Rachel.

[C]

He is from an open carry state. I mean, as you are too.

[B]

As I am too. But it just so to your point. It's like Jade knows. It's like Bernard is learning. You say something like, hey, new Epstein files dropped or something, and Van will be like, balls, the shit is funny to me.

[A]

I'm sorry. The shit is funny to me.

[B]

Yeah. He'll be like, I have a wedgie farts. Like, it's just. And you just. Yeah.

[A]

I'm sorry. It's funny.

[B]

It means he. It means he likes you.

[C]

Yeah, I know he does. I'm just like, yo, man, like, can we just have a, you know, conventional conversation?

[B]

It's funny for only to one and.

[C]

I just be trying to bond with my. My dog and you know, like, you.

[A]

Know, that is bonding. We bonded.

[B]

I wonder how you do if somebody does it back to you. Like, you should reciprocate that.

[A]

There's one person who does.

[B]

Who?

[A]

Adam Friedland.

[E]

Really?

[B]

Oh, wait, is that.

[C]

You told us.

[B]

That's what I meant, right?

[D]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

Adam Friedland is the one person. Adam, like, when I'm. When I'm. When I'm texting with Adam. Adam, like, Adam. Adam is. I aspire to be the, like the. The comic off putting this that Adam can manifest. First of all, he's a lovely guy. He's a nice guy.

[B]

He was great. He was great.

[A]

Sweet guy. But Adam is the one that'll hit you up on some. I can't believe Tupac died for this shit. And then he's. Then he'll send you a video or some shit. Like he'll say some off the wall shit. He's got a. He's got a high level comedic brain. But you got. Yeah, you got a chance to meet him at the party.

[B]

I did. And once he found out that I was on the Bachelor, he just had like a mill. Wait, what did he say to me? He goes, we're talking. We're talking. I'm like, oh, you know, I'm divorced. And then something was said and he was like, did you marry the guy from the Bachelor? And I was like, yeah. And he goes, why the fuck did you do that? That's dumb as fuck. And Rachel's like, that's a paraphrase. But that was the sentiment. And I was like, I mean, what can I say? You're not wrong. I was like, I mean, you know, I go, that is actually an appropriate response to me saying that. Yeah, yeah, no, he was. He was. He was great.

[C]

Vanities, y', all, in these Hollywood ass conversations, man.

[A]

We have fun. Look, whatever, you know, whatever, man, you know, we. We're having fun. We're doing our best. Listen, we have to get to our. Our interview with the co host of the Clockett podcast, Simone Sanders Townsend and Eugene Daniels ii. That's after. Hey, Sal.

[C]

Hank.

[B]

What's going on?

[C]

We haven't worked a case in years.

[A]

I just bought my car at Carvana and it was so easy.

[E]

Too easy.

[C]

Think something's up?

[A]

You tell me. They got thousands of options, found a great car at a great price, and it got delivered the next day.

[C]

It sounds like Carvana just makes it easy to buy your car, Hank.

[A]

Yeah, you're right. Case closed.

[B]

Buy your car today on Carvana. Delivery fees may apply.

[A]

All right, guys, guest time. Special guests on the show, Simone Sanders Townsend and Eugene Daniels. You already see them on Ms. Now, but now you're going to see them and hear them. Something new. Miss now presents Clock It. This is a new podcast where Washington power players will take on these two Washington power players. Power players in Washington are going to take on the latest political news. The catchiest Cultural moments and how the two converge. It's gonna be available everywhere today, February 12th, right now. Congratulations to you guys, to the new pod. Congratulations.

[D]

Thank you. Thank you.

[A]

Let's talk a little. Let's talk a little bit about it. Like, you guys are veterans to being on linear cable news. What do you hope to explore new and fresh and different on your pods?

[D]

Well, look, first of all, we love you guys. So great to talk to y' all today. Look, I think what I think people are asking, like, okay, we see on tv, is it the same as television? We've had lawmakers already reach out and members of Congress like, oh, I want to get on the podcast. And I'm like, oh, that ain't this podcast. This. I think what we're most excited about, frankly, is to bring people into the group chat. Eugene and I already have. You know, Eugene and I are always talking about work, about people at work, sometimes about what's going on out there in the world and politics and culture. I mean, they are intertwined. It's not a sideshow. Culture is not a sideshow to what's happening in politics. It's part of the main event. So we're bringing people into our group. Chad. Right, Eugene.

[E]

Yeah, I think part of it is. And it came naturally because, like she said, we talk all the time. And what we both believe, intrinsically, is that these two things are linked, culture and politics, and you. And you can't pull them apart. And most importantly. Right, we can. We probably can do this podcast and wouldn't feel the need to do it during Biden because Donald Trump, unlike other presidents, understands that trying to arrest the culture and arresting the culture, having control of the culture, is actually a better way to operate as a president, and better in terms of getting what you want done, right? If people see you having UFC fights at the White House, it's a Trump Kennedy Center. If they, you know, you are seen as cool and interesting. Right. To a certain segment of the population, that what you do politically and policy wise is more acceptable. Right? And so that is. We're going to explore that. We're going to explore the attacks on people that look like us and queer people and what does it feel like in this country at this moment and have a little bit of fun, but do it in a way that also matches the moment.

[D]

And we're going to get into some of the news of the day. So on our first episode, we hit some of the headlines, and then we get into a really great conversation with Tony Goldwyn and Myles Frost, which was actually, you know, it was good. Eugene, at one point in the podcast, asked Tony Goldwyn, I was kind of like, why you asking that? He said, you know, you do a lot of projects with black people. What is that about Black women.

[A]

And Tony likes a very insightful black ladies. He likes to. He been visiting the community for a long time now.

[D]

Yes.

[A]

Go back to the 90s. You see him back there. Tony. Tony, like a little bit of. That's what I'm talking about.

[B]

But he's on Law and Order now, so he's a little. He's a little evened out.

[A]

Well, maybe.

[B]

You said something interesting, because I know this is about the, you know, how culture and politics intertwine. And you said you have politicians that are already asking to come on. And you're like, no. So are we gay? No politicians are going to be allowed on the podcast.

[E]

We don't want to talk to them.

[D]

So we want to talk to them on our. On our. I love these shows. Yeah, okay.

[E]

Yes, we want to talk to people who are in the culture, right? Because we know the politics, right? Like if you have a member of Congress on that one, there are very few of them who understand this. This topic to begin with, that culture, politics are intertwined. And there's very few of them, if any of them, that could actually have a discussion that feels real. Right. And not trying to sell you wanted to anything. And so being able to talk to people who are actually in the culture, who are in the zeitgeist in some way, shape or form, to us is a better way to talk about it, because we hear politicians all the time talking about, you know, the culture and the way that they think about culture. But what's the opposite of that?

[B]

So then how will working in traditional media versus working on a podcast, like, give you the different tools that you need to influence the conversation?

[D]

Well, look, I think that first of all, as you all know, you have to meet people where they are. When I used to be a political strategist, we would always talk about meeting people at the barbershops, the beauty shops, and the Bible studies, which was basically shorthand for going to where the people are and taking your message there and trying to earn their vote. I think the media apparatus has to do the same thing. Eugene is still gonna co host his show on the weekend. I'm still co hosting the Weeknight. And a lot of times we'll have these amazing conversations on air. And then I'm always like, well, did we clip it? What are we clipping? What are we putting on social because there's so many people that only see what is on social and social is a snippet of the conversation. So this, this podcast and you know, frankly, this is the first video, I would say the second iteration of Ms. Now in this video podcast world, Nicole Wallace has a really amazing podcast where she, our colleague, where she does one on one conversations with the quote, unquote, best people, you know, play on Donald Trump's best people. But ours is, this is the first time we're having a group conversation and we're inviting people to have a group conversation with us about the news. Yeah. But also about the cultural zeitgeist. So, yeah, we're going to talk to Tony Goldwyn and Miles Frost, who have a play that they're doing together that Tony is co directing and Miles is going to talk to us about how Chadwick Boseman has inspired him and what these times and the assault on the culture. And that's not a conversation, frankly, you can get out of a cable news segment. But we are, and I would argue, you know, Eugene has been interviewing people for a very long time, you know, seasoned journalists in these streets. So he can really, you know, between the two of us, we're really gonna pull out the kind of conversations, frankly, that we are all really having in our own group chats, because it's crazy out there right now.

[E]

And I think part of it is, you know, what we often hear, the two of us from people that watch the show, some of our bosses, is that you guys boil down politics into a very accessible way. And so that is, as you guys know better than we, that is the heart of podcasting. Right. People don't come to listen to your podcast, to hear a bunch of Harvard SAT words and have to look up the damn thesaurus. That's not interesting. That's not how people have normal conversations. And so that is also a part of. That's what you asked about the skill set. So that's the skill set we're taking from TV and upping it into the podcast where we want people who maybe they don't watch linear television to watch us on YouTube or listen to this on Apple podcasts or Spotify or what have you. We want them to be able to get to and have be able to understand the kinds of things that's going on. Because at the end of, the end of the day, Simone and I talk about this a lot on our shows, is that arresting the culture is also something that authoritarian leaders do at the very beginning. Right. Because they Start giving themselves fake awards, they start naming things after themselves. They start, you know, because it is really important when you are trying to change the culture and the politics of a country, to arrest the culture at the very beginning of. And that's something that we're seeing. So we're gonna explore that.

[D]

And I don't think the media landscape is gonna be able to survive if they can't meet people where they are.

[E]

Yeah.

[D]

Like, to be very clear, I have a younger sister that's a little bit younger than me, and the girl does not watch cable news. Hasn't watched cable news for a very long time. Actually doesn't even have cable at home. But she's on YouTube. And so people like my sister, she's engaged, she's involved. She doesn't think of herself necessarily, I would say, as a political person, but she cares to know what is going on, and she seeks out what is going on in her own way. But she's not gonna turn on a cable news segment even though I got a damn show. There are millions of people out there like my sister.

[E]

My siblings watch. Okay, come on.

[D]

You got better, better siblings than I do. I need to send my.

[A]

What do y' all think it says about politicians and the way we're communicating that you guys don't have the faith that they can come on a podcast and be relatable and have an in depth conversation with you guys?

[D]

Well, I disagree with Eugene. I think that as someone who used to advise politicians, I think they can come and have a relatable conversation.

[A]

I think he's 1000% right.

[D]

Really?

[E]

There's not a lot of them.

[A]

I think he's so right. I think.

[D]

Why?

[A]

Because when we've had politicians on the show, we talk to them. First of all, just so everybody knows. If you know politicians in real life and then you interview them, the whiplash that you get is oftentimes off putting. Even when you fuck with them, even when you like them, and you will implore them, hey, man, look, we gonna have a conversation. Just be the same guy, and I promise you, people gonna love it. They cannot do it. And I actually think that you guys are really hitting on something that's. That's super interesting to me. The reason why Trump has been able to position himself, promote himself, brand himself, the reason why people say fake news like his slang, the reason why people like MAGA is basically a slang word is because there is something that even though he dips into so many different grotesque things, that there's a feeling that people have that he creates culture in this really weird way because they believe that he's authentically who he is.

[D]

I mean, look, it's not even a feeling like he has done it. The reason we even know Trump is because the Apprentice, he's been in movies, music, so sports for, like, years. At one point, I believe Trump was the most mentioned name in rap music. And this was before his ascension in his political career. So I think that there's a familiarity with Donald Trump, who a lot of people knew him to be previously, that colors what people think about him right now. And, I mean, that's a. I mean, I don't agree with the president On, I think 99.999% of things, but I will say he's a master marketer, and he understands how to market a product himself now, even if it's a little raggedy product like those gold boots or the little janky bible, but he understands how to do it. And that is because he doesn't come from the political world. And so I think for us, we don't want to talk to the politicians because our podcast is not a venue for you to come on and run for office. Yeah, no, this is a venue for you to come, for the guests we are having to come on and unpack some things, have a conversation that we are actually having now. Maybe one day there'll be a politician that actually lives in the intersection of that, truly. But for now, that's not what this is. The politicians are listening, for sure. Like, they listen to your podcast and they are taking their cues from this spear and trying to figure out how to break through, but it doesn't feel like it's.

[B]

And that's why I think, to piggyback on what Van is saying, it's so interesting that you don't want them in there, because if culture does dictate politics, and we've seen that from the right, I mean, they hijack everything. I mean, they say fuck around and find out now, which makes me sick about ICE agents. Makes me sick. Like, that was a cultural. That's our term. But if culture does dictate politics, I guess where does. What is maybe the hope with the podcast? Because, you know, you're. You're having these conversations that we're having in the group, chat with each other at the dinner table. So how do you merge the two? How can. If they are listening and we're continuing to preach this message of, you need to tap in, you need to meet people where they are, you need to be more relatable how will your podcast do it? How or how in general do we get there? Because some. There's a disconnect.

[E]

Yeah. I think part of it is that. And Van, your point about, you know, talking to a politician before you hit record and what the person they turn into, you can literally see them, like, change. Like, physically.

[A]

Every my brother speak, the change is visible on the thing. Sometimes I'll be wanting to tap him on the shoulder and be like, hey.

[E]

Man, like, no, go back to that.

[A]

Don't start telling me about who, who raised you in the single mother situation in 1975. I don't want. We're not trying to hear that. No, but go ahead.

[E]

Yeah, but, but. And so, like, the, the. Their need to understand that the American people, the world. But the American people want realness from their politicians. And, and they've been saying this for years, right? Like, be authentic. You know, like people like Simone have been telling politicians for years to be authentic. But the authentic of what a politician sees as authentic and how everyone who is on the Internet all the time engaging with human beings understands to be authentic are two different things. I think you. One of my issues with politicians is they often, not all of them, but many of them see the American people and they don't give them the benefit of the doubt when it comes to understanding how this thing works. It's like, they don't understand politics. No, they do, because not. It's not just like, do they understand it in the civics form? Right? Do they read the books? Do they go to history? It is. Do they understand human connection? Do they understand back and forth? And you know something I say to. When I talk to young people who want to be journalists, who are young, I say take psychology classes because actually, if you want to be and understand how politicians operate, how folks in the culture operate, how human beings operate, you have to understand how they think. And it's not. I think sometimes in the media, we make things very complicated or we try to put how we want someone to behave onto them and give them the benefit of the doubt that way when it comes to politicians. And that's where we make our mistakes, right? Like, I think so many people, you know, when Trump puts out this Obama video, this racist video last week, right? He put the. Puts it on. There's so many. I'm watching so many people that I used to work with on the, on the White House beat, just throw out the excuse that the White House first put out, which is like, not true. It's saying it's the Lion King. That is not from the Lion King.

[D]

There were no apes in the Lion King.

[E]

There's Rafiki. He's a baboon. But I think, like, the. You have to, as journalists, as people with power and influence, give, like, stop being. Stop just taking people's word for it and understand human psychology and understand the why.

[C]

Why.

[E]

And that's something I think we'll explore on the podcast, right? Like, Trump will do something racist again, and we will talk about it on the podcast. And we. It's. It's like, yes, this is racist. This is who he is, but why is he doing it? Right? And I think trying to give, not politicians the tools, but the American people to the podcast, the tools to operate in their daily life so they can understand what's happening. Because, frankly, I end. You know, politicians will listen. We love everyone who will listen to it. But I'm much more interested to hear from everyday people who.

[D]

Because in a form. Look, there isn't a. It's crazy out there. There's an assault on our democracy. And the Republican Party apparatus, they have been very, very crafty in taking over various institutions and entities to the point where, like, the ellisons now own TikTok. Remember when TikTok was fucking up the other day, okay? Like, right after they bought it. We talk about what's happening with the Washington Post, who owns some of these local news stations, how people look at what happened to the site formerly known as Twitter, how people get their information and the platforms of which they trust. They are absolutely being influenced by our politics and vice versa. So we also want people to clock that as well. And if you understand that, you can, I think, maybe decipher some things better. And I think the last point I wanna make about the politicians is what we're not addressing. And I think in this conversation that we're having right now is that there's a generational divide. Because to be very clear, I think there are a number of young politicians who could come on elected officials right now who they don't mind, like, sitting down in a space and place and being themselves, because that is how they came up in the political world. Their entire political career has been centered on being themselves. But somebody like, I would argue, a vice president, former Vice President Kamala Harris, whom I used to work for, you know, there have been many times where I would put somebody in a room with her. Somebody would have a meeting with her. They would come out of the meeting and be like, oh, my gosh, she's so great. Like, what? And I'M like, yes, yes, yes, she's funny. Yes, yes, yes, yes. Very hilarious. Yeah. And then someone will see her in an interview or in a debate stage or something else and they'll say, hmm, I just feel like that's not the same person I saw privately. Well, Kamala Harris is a 60 something year old black lady. When she came up, the elected officials and the young people were not doing what we're doing now. And so I do think there's a generational thing there, but I think the politicians are clocking it. That's why Gavin Newsom got his own podcast.

[A]

Yeah, well, yeah.

[E]

When he talks to Ben Shapiro.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Where he.

[D]

Yeah, but you know what?

[A]

Like, that is a great point because if you grew up in the era where like a picture of Gary Hart, like on a boat could completely torpedo an entire political career, you can't operate in that era. Our president had sex with Stormy Daniels. Shout out to Baton Rouge. Baton Rouge. Still getting it done. Stormy Daniels. That's Baton Rouge native. I don't know if you know that.

[D]

I did not know that.

[B]

No, no, none of us did.

[A]

That's Baton Rouge.

[D]

Oh, God. Nobody's.

[B]

Nobody is shouting now.

[A]

You know, when we Louisiana, when we.

[D]

Say the Louisiana is actually me, apparently.

[A]

So. So. And now things are just different. And I, I would hope that they would loosen up a little bit and try to meet people where they are. And we all have to push them to do that. I think we all agree. Let me ask you guys a question about something specifically that's happening. The two of you have been around so many political campaigns, so many politicians, and I've covered this and talked about this for so long. What's happening right now in Texas is concerning to me. The what part? The battle royale that exists between James Talarico and Jasmine Crockett. Jasmine Crockett and James Talarico. I'll tell you why, like, a lot of people aren't really paying attention to this. Because in the grand scheme of things, this primary is going the way primaries go. Primaries are vicious, they're brutal. Until you get to a general, you normally learn everything that you need to learn about a candidate. This is the way it's supposed to go. I will say in the last month, last couple of weeks, this one particularly has metastasized to me because now what we are doing is through the schism that exists there. We're investigating real fissures that exist in the coalition of the left and the nut kicking that's going on right now, not just between the two Candidates. But between people who have made this worldwide, excuse me, countrywide, a referendum on safety, on black women, black men, on racism, on all of this stuff, I'm not so sure that that entire situation right there isn't indicative of. Of the real problem with solidarity on the left. And. And so I. My question is, from you guys vantage point, what's your diagnosis of how that race is going?

[E]

I think part of it is. I think. I think you're right. It's going how primaries are supposed to go. I think that right when you get to the end, right, people are gonna start voting here very soon. And early voting, that's when people start getting a little nastier. So especially when it's the closer it gets. I think what it really shows, the visuals that I see, other than like the obvious, like, racial. And the way in which we see white men talking about Jasmine Crockett as a black woman.

[A]

Right.

[E]

That is a whole conversation in and of itself. But I think what you're seeing is the fight in the Democratic Party is no longer ideological. It is, do you fight and what is that fight look like? And I think James Talarico and Jasmine Crockett show two varied, different, very different ways of how to do that. Right. James Talarico is doing kind of like an old school. I want to bring everyone together. I'm opening my heart. I want Republicans to vote for me. And you have Jasmine Crockett, who's up here in D.C. right. And so it's also like where they're kind of coming up, who's up here in D.C. fighting with the president every single day and seems to understand that what the left wants is someone to fight out loud.

[A]

Right.

[E]

They don't want you to be friends with Republicans that are raggedy. Right. You can be friends with the Republicans that are nice, but the Republicans that are here saying racist stuff and being sexist and all that, they don't want you to be friends with them. So I think that is the biggest fight you're seeing. I think the stuff that's bothering me about it is the misogynoir when it comes to how people are interacting, acting and covering Jasmine Crockett and the way in which they speak about her every. Every time I think that folks in the media or folks and folks who watch and talk about these things have learned their lessons. Right? They show me that they didn't learn a damn thing. Right. We went through this many times. I covered Vice President Harris very closely, and we just haven't understood how those things operate. And I Will also say, last thing is like James Talarico's kind of, did he or didn't he call Colin Allred a mediocre black man? Right. Did he say he was mediocre campaign or did he call him mediocre black man? I think also shows there is a, sometimes a misunderstanding with white liberals on how things are going to be perceived. Right. That you cannot just run against a person of color the same way you're going to run against another white guy. Had he called, you know, better or more mediocre people, I think would have been like, okay, whatever. But when you're talking about a black man or a black person, it's taken differently. And I think that's also a lesson that Democrats are having to learn. And this is the, you know, the first primary that we're going to actually see some, like, a real fight happening in the Democratic Party. And I'm not sure. I think primaries are really important. I think they're. They're healthy. Right. I think, like, you know, I think that, you know, I know the. I know Hakeem Jeffries and them and Chuck Schumer don't want to hear this, but I think everybody should be primaried. I think that, like, you think they.

[A]

Should primary Leader Jeffries.

[E]

I think anyone should. I think people, I think it keeps you on your P's and Q's.

[A]

Right.

[E]

I think, I think it's not about, is Hakeem Jeffries ready for the job? It is that everyone who is in office should always have to be looking over their shoulder at who's coming up next. Are the ideas that I'm presenting to my constituents still touching what they need? Right. Am I still in the same vein as my constituents that when I came here 30 years ago, am I still doing the same thing? Do they still want me? I think it's healthy and I think both parties should be doing a lot more of embarrassing.

[D]

Well, look, there's so much I could say about this race. First, I will note, I think I am concerned about the, you know, I work for the highest profile black woman politician that was ever elected in this country. And so I just, I think I, at this point, I have seen it all, okay? I've been standing there where, you know, literally she was sitting there doing an interview with the mainstream. She is in Vice President Harris sitting there doing an interview with a mainstream outlet. And the seasoned journalist who happened to be a white woman is like, so your mother decided to raise you as black? And I'm like, oh, God, this how we Start.

[E]

Jesus Christ.

[D]

So this is. I'm not surprised. That being said, that doesn't make it right. But that being said, I do think that because people that know, people that are, you know, very well, you know, read people who understand that, like, the. Who have issues with, like, all of us do, the misogyny that's coming up in this race, that doesn't mean we should be above critiquing the candidates, including Congresswoman Crockett. Like, to be very clear, she's running an unconventional campaign. I, as someone that has done campaigns for a long time, I didn't understand the launch video. But I also have said for a very long time that I think she can win this primary. But the way in which you win a primary is you go out there, you talk to the voters, you meet them where they are. I don't think there's been enough attention in this race, necessarily nationally, about what the candidates are actually doing on the ground. Because I would say on the ground, she is doing those things with. The conversation becomes about, well, she's not putting ads on air. Talarico has more money. All of these other things, at the end of the day, they don't matter to voters. And while this has become a race that people speak about nationally, it is the people of Texas, the Democratic primary voters, frankly, that are going to decide who the candidate is. And then the people of Texas are going to decide if they want whoever comes out of this Democratic primary or the Republican candidate. Now, I think voters, particularly, there is nobody that turns into a pundit quicker than a Democratic voter in a fricking primary. Okay? They become analysts. All of a sudden they got numbers. All of a sudden they're like, well, I don't know the probability of so and so, so and so winning in a general election, when the reality is the person that will win is the person that, you know that. That garners the most support. So you should vote for the person that you want to win, not the person that you think has the likeliest chance of beating a white man in general election. And I think that's what's really at the heart of what's going on in this Crockett Talarico situation. At the end of the day, people privately, let's just be honest, privately, they're all like, well, will white people vote for her? I mean, people are saying and asking.

[A]

I mean, to me, last thing I'll say about it, to me, I'm sure that for people who are smarter politically, that's a calculus. I'm sure like, or people. That's. That's part of it. Right. Like, particularly after what we've seen with Donald Trump and maga, I think there's a large part of the centrist Democratic movement that just wants to pick the best white guy.

[D]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

And go into that and make sure I'm, like, not concerned with any of that. I'm very. I'm at this point, I don't think that I'm concerned with identity at all. I'm concerned with people not going broke because they got cancer, with people having what they need. And so I actually don't want identity to get in the way of investigating candidates and making informed political decisions. And what I will say is that where, while as black people, we always have to consider how we are viewed when we step into rooms and into positions, we also can't let. To me, politicians do what they do, which is use every single aspect of themselves to shield them from criticism or investigation into who they are. I think Congresswoman Crockett is brilliant. I would like to know as much about her as I can before I cede more power. I'm not in Texas. Before we make her more powerful. Doesn't matter whether or not she's black, She's a black lady, all of this stuff. Hakeem Jeffries, don't like him. I think he should be primary by Donald Duck. I will. I will put Donald Duck in there. All right. But, like, don't like him. Like, I can name a bunch of people, a bunch of black men in these. Don't like it. Don't like these guys. Don't like them. Don't think that they represent anything new, fresh. I don't even think they truly represent the will and the polling that I see from their own constituents. So what I'm saying is, while I will always protect black people, always protect black people that are going into situations where they're invulnerable, where they're vulnerable. I'm not going to protect power that is using blackness to shield itself or insulate itself from criticism or investigation.

[B]

Question. And this is a question for everybody. Do you think Jasmine Crockett's doing that?

[D]

No, that was my question.

[A]

I don't think Jasmine Crockett's doing that. What I think is that there are a lot of people that are doing it on her behalf. I think Jasmine. I think Jasmine Crockett is ready for any fight. I think Jasmine Crockett is ready for any fight. I think she's shown that we've protected her when they've Come at her specifically because she is a black woman. We've seen that and we've talked about it. In this situation right here, when we talk about the launch video and stuff, we got to be able to say.

[D]

Hey, it wasn't good.

[A]

We got to be able to say.

[D]

That video was not a video that you launch. If you are running for the United States Senate in Texas, that is not a video that says, I want to get your votes. And I'm okay with saying that, but I think other people should be able to say that. But I do think that some of the reason people get a little caught up is because sometimes the analysis there was it in the Times and op ed about how why Jasmine Crockett shouldn't is not the candidate for the United States Senate. And it was just washed over with it with a little too much.

[A]

All right, now it's enough. I feel what you're saying. Yeah, we said we see that before. Hey, that's a little too much there.

[D]

Yeah, we do that. Y' all saw the video where there's a. There's a black ice agent, and the protesters who are white, they're calling him the N word.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

Calling him the N word and the fascist. And it's like, not. Hold up now.

[C]

Back that hell up, girl.

[D]

Hold up now. We pull back a bridge too far. We don't. Okay, ice is out of control, but watch your mouth. There's a little like, you know, it's like, oh, don't go too far. And I think that's what you're hitting on, Van, that within the. On the left, like within the progressives. You know, I also used to work for Bernie Sanders, and frankly, sometimes the most progressive people, they sound just like some of the worst conservatives, like right wing conservatives in this country. Like, the shit is real within the Democratic coalition and on the left. But I do think that there are fissures and fractions within the leftist coalition. But frankly, that's what's going to happen in a big tent. I think the Republicans are learning that very well because they don't let these magas, the qanons. It used to be maybe two factions in the Republican Party. Now it has grown to the level that they can't control it all. But I do think that the conversations happening in Democratic primaries, they need to be from the voters perspectives. We should be able to have this conversation without somebody saying, oh, you hating on Jasmine Crockett. Maybe I'm just putting out the facts on the table.

[B]

Yeah. It's interesting, though, because I'm from Texas. And I know you talked about those.

[E]

Texas tattoo. Yes. Where are you from in Texas?

[B]

Dallas.

[E]

Okay. I went to high school in Killeen.

[B]

Oh, okay.

[D]

Is that legitimate? I need to know.

[B]

It's right. I went to school in Austin, so it was. Right. You drive right through. Right through.

[D]

Okay.

[A]

Wow, look at this.

[D]

He said he got a tattoo of Texas on his side. And I was like, I don't need to know.

[B]

We have a lot of pride. I get it. I love being. I love that I'm from Texas. I love that.

[D]

But.

[B]

And so then, Eugene, you'll understand this. Like, I. And I'm curious as to maybe what you're hearing from people in Texas. I. I know, talking about this conversation, people in Texas who are having. The black people who are having the conversation quietly of, can Jasmine Crockett win in Texas? But then with everything that's happening, particularly in 2026, in regards to this race, it has been, well, now we have to protect Jasmine. I don't like the way that Jasmine's being talked about. Nobody's Democrats not gonna win in Texas anyway. So I'm gonna vote for Jasmine Crockett because I. I don't like what's happening with this conversation. How do you combat that? Are these things that you're going to talk about on your podcast? I guess to bring it back because, you know, it's. I struggle with. I see what's happening on social media, I see the conversation. I even get upset by it. And it's like, how do you sit down with that person or meet that person? You know, back to our conversation that we've been having. When it comes to the feeling of I need to protect, I don't like what's happening. And I can't let these spend stereotypes perpetuate within, you know, political thinking. But at the same time, you know, you need to be able to discuss what's the race and like the. The real issues and the ideas going on within it.

[E]

I think two things. One, I think that, one, we are going to have these types of conversations on the podcast, so that's really important. But two, I think something Simone said a second ago is really important. I want to keep pulling at that thread, which is that Democratic primary voters, whether it is in a Senate race, a House race, a presidential race, they spend a lot of time trying to gamify. Right. And this is what happened with Obama, too, Right. Like, the only reason that Obama became the nominee was because he won Iowa. And black people said, oh, white people gonna vote for this man. We liked him already, but now I'm gonna vote for. For him. Right? And so you see that I'm hearing a similar conversation in Texas, including the part about we want to protect her. I think that voters should stop trying to gamify. I think that voters should just be voting for who they want. If they like Jasmine Crockett, because she's very ready to fight on all cylinders all the time, then vote for her for that. Because at the end of the day, Donald Trump is president. The president twice. And so this idea about electability and the question that largely black people and black women get about electability, like, we have to stop thinking about it in the exact same way. There are still more black and brown people continuing to grow in Texas, and if more of them voted, it would be a blue state. Democrats have been chasing Texas for a long time, but every time there's a new Senate race, you're seeing more people, more young people especially, who tend to be a little bit more on the left cleaning side back, and they're eligible to vote, but they stay home. So one, politicians have to give people a reason to want to come out in these primaries or to give people a reason to come out in these general elections. And people should stop trying to gamify it, right? Like, don't do it. Because they're like, okay, if she. If Paxton gets the nomination, then, you know, maybe it's a little bit easier, but, you know, corn is tougher. So maybe we should do Talarico. Like, just vote for who you care about, because at the end of the day, that's the only way that we actually change the system. If you want to change the system, you have to actually vote your. Your morals, your values, and stop trying to gamify and guess, especially trying to guess what Republicans are going to do, because who the hell knows?

[A]

Who knows? Who knows? They should give Gary Chambers $5 million and send them into Texas to turn black people on. Gary's right.

[D]

It's a lot of Louisiana people popping up in the conversation.

[A]

Gary. Gary's right. What Gary said was that he was talking about what we talked about. We talked to Keith Edwards. Like, concentrate on the voters in the state, in the place that you're not reaching. Get to them, turn them out. Broad coalitions of people who understand that government and systemically things aren't working for them the way that they should, and that there are candidates that are empowered to make those changes, and I think you can win. You guys excited for your pod? Excited to have had you on higher learning you guys tell. Tell people once again where they can see it, how they can get in touch with y' all visually, audio wise, all of that stuff.

[D]

Yes. Clock it. Drop new episodes. Drop every Thursday. First episode is out today. You can catch us literally wherever you get your podcast. You can also go on YouTube Ms. Now clock it. You can see the podcast there. And you can find Eugene and I on social media. I'mone D. Sanders Simone with a Y.

[E]

Eugene, where are you? Eugene Daniels two. The number two. I'm actually.

[D]

Why is there a two?

[E]

Because I'm the second. And also Eugene Daniels was taken when I first went on Twitter the first time. But it works out.

[A]

So you're not Junior. You the second.

[E]

My dad was very clear he did not want a junior. I think somebody growing up named Junior, and so I had to be the second.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

Fans of Junior.

[A]

I'm a junior.

[D]

Fan's a junior.

[B]

Simone, I want to hear Housewives on the podcast. I want to hear.

[C]

You.

[D]

Will be on the podcast. One could argue the controversy in Texas from the stem from social media is a scheme that Todd set up to get people to get threads, accounts.

[B]

I don't know.

[A]

All right, we gotta you guys. Thank you for joining us. Simone, Cleo says hi.

[D]

I love Cleo. Yeah, Cleo told me that. She's like, do you know Van? He's from Louisiana. I said, do all y' all Louisiana.

[A]

People know each other? We gotta know much.

[D]

We gotta know how the other day she got my life together. It's good to see y'.

[A]

All.

[B]

Good to see y' all too. Thank you.

[D]

Bye.

[A]

My day kicks off with a refreshing Celsius energy drink, then straight to the gym, pre K pickup back home to meal prep. Time for my fire station shift. One more Celsius. Gotta keep the lights on when the three alarm hits. I'm ready. Celsius live fit. Go grab a cold, refreshing Celsius at your local retailer or locate [e-mail].

[B]

This message may be shocking to many millennials. If you are one, you might want to sit down right now. Loads of people are searching the following on depot Low rise jeans, halter top, velour tracksuit, puka shell necklace, disc belt. You likely place these in the dark of your closet in 2004, never to be seen again. But if you can find it in yourself to dust them off, there are a lot of people who will give you money for them. Sell on Depop, where taste recognizes taste.

[A]

All right, Rach. We haven't talked about Crockett and Talarico that recently. Do you have any thoughts as a Texan? I mean, what. How's this going? I'm seeing a lot of wounds being brought up. Like, people are like, this is Identity Politics 101. I mean, what I said about Gary. Gary had a video where he talked about Keith Edwards coming on our podcast. And I thought the video was very, very useful. Everyone should watch it and follow and listen to Gary Chambers, because he talked about the fact that it is lazy to assume that black candidates can't win, particularly if you're not doing the work to turn out black voters and create the voter that you want to support you. Right?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So it's not just about someone saying, oh, Jasmine Crockett can't win. Jasmine Crockett can't win statewide. This person can't win. Like, what are you doing? Are you taking a Gary Chambers or Stacey Abrams route to awaken those voters that might be either under incentivized because of different factors or a little apathetic to the whole process?

[B]

You asked me if it's one of those two.

[A]

Well, that's a side thing I'm asking you, do you see anything particularly alarming with how that. That race is going down there?

[B]

Well, I guess it goes towards the question that I was asking Eugene, my fellow Texan, is that I know people were thinking a certain way, and I'm not agreeing with him. We discussed it in our conversation. You guys heard about, you know, saying this person is more likely to win. And I thought that his response was so great of like, why are you playing a game with it and not just voting on the person that you believe in, that you want to back, who aligns with your.

[D]

With.

[B]

With certain policies and issues that are. That you prioritize and that are important to you.

[D]

That's.

[B]

It should be that at the end of the day, not you trying to say, well, this person has a better chance against this person. That's what it should be. And I felt like. I felt like I was seeing a little of that. It has become, at least to the black people that I have spoken with, I feel a little bit more based in identity. I feel like people are apathetic and saying, a Democrat's not going to win anyway, so I might as well vote for this person because I don't like the way that they're being portrayed and. And stereotyped in the media. And I think that that's problematic, too. I do think that that's going on, and I think Simone pointed that out very well. That's Absolutely happening. The massage, the. The massage Noir. Massage. Massage in our Massage Noir of it all. But, yeah, I just. I'm seeing people lean more to the identity and to wanting to protect that. I have spoken with very small group of people wanting to protect Jasmine Crockett more than sticking to maybe the things that they were and what motivated them at the beginning of the race. It'll be interesting. I mean, I'm looking at. I was trying to see right now what the polls are saying. I mean, they still have Jasmine. At least this one article from the Austin American Statesman has Jasmine Crockett leading by double digits over Jasmine Talarico. When it comes to the.

[A]

James Heller.

[B]

James. Sorry, what did I say?

[A]

Jasmine Tallow.

[B]

James Talarico when it comes to the Democratic primary.

[A]

Well, this is what I'll say. Once again, we invited James Talarico to come on the podcast and talk about how he. What he said, Allegedly said. I guess he admitted saying it.

[B]

He said he said it. Yeah, he pretty much said.

[A]

He said, like, we invited him to have the conversation. I don't know where they're going to have the conversation. If they don't have the conversation, they're cowards. And let me just say this. I don't believe right now that we should be using identity to shield politicians from accountability, or not even from accountability, but from investigation. I just said that to Simone and Eugene. I don't believe that we should be doing that. However, if throughout a primary, something is said or something happens that is either insensitive, racist, or just unwise, even within the sphere of blackness. And we're talking about our relationships in coalition to black liberals, to black. Excuse me, to white liberals, to white leftists. I've talked about this before. We talked about this with Summer Lee. The leftist frame is about class, and it's about the class fight.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And it's about true systemic change that could happen.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

To really benefit the American worker. I'm with that. I'm with that. And I am decreasing almost every day in my racial essentialism. It just. It's. It's.

[E]

I'm.

[A]

I'm broadening it out. However. It is fucking stupid. And I'll say this to all the leftists out there. It is fucking stupid. It's ridiculous to try to have a conversation with, be in solidarity with, move with or for black Americans without considering the existence of black Americans. It can't be done.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I'm telling you guys right now, it can't be done. There's just not enough trust. The frustrating thing is the conversation is what establishes the trust. Like Platner or Talarico. Having the conversation earnestly with people that are going to investigate, interrogate the mistakes that they made, that is the thing that has to be done so that that solidarity can exist. And if you look like you don't want to do it, it looks like you don't give a. About it. And if you don't give a fuck about it, fuck you. I'm just. I'm just. I'm just being for real. If you. If you don't. If you don't care enough to even enter into the conversation, we could have a conversation and you could be like, all of this is a distraction, and it don't matter. None of that. But I truly feel like. And y' all can say what the y' all want to say. If you say something that is racially insensitive and you won't even talk about it, you won't even address it in a way that, to me is, like, robust, then you kind of saying, fuck me and everything that my ancestors went through. Because I'm. And it's very difficult for me, even as where I'm at politically right now, it's difficult for me to get past it, because the way I look at it is this. And we move on after this. The way I look at it is this. My ancestors, they died so that I could use my voice at a time when using that voice is high leverage. They die for that. If I don't use my voice in that time, I'm killing them again.

[B]

Agreed.

[A]

Like, they died twice. So I hope you don't think that after years and years and years of people getting fucked over so that I can say, hey, what do you mean by that? I hope you don't think I'm not going to do it. And I'm not asking you to exist in any framework of guilt, but I'm saying when you open your hand, there got to be something with that. And I don't understand why people don't understand it. Like, I really don't. It's not about trying to book guests for the podcast. I'm seriously asking the question once again, Talarico, in the situation, I am so. I am, like, so unanimated by the actual race itself. I wish the best for her always. I wish the best for him. You know what? No, I don't. I don't. I wish the best for the people. That's who I wish the best for. I don't give a about her individual political career or his individual political career. I care about the people that are subject to power, political power in Texas and all throughout. And if she means the best for them, then it's her. If he means the best for them than the Tim. That is what I care about. But I just don't think that we're going to be able to get to a point of being able to build trust in these coalitions or even understanding if we can't have talks about this. And they don't. They want to politick it like they. They want to politic it. They legitimately, they want to try to politic their way out of this type of hurt, this type of misunderstanding, this type of victimization. You can't do that. You can only talk about it. And they don't really want to do it. It doesn't seem like that to me.

[B]

I think it's. Well, I do care about. I do care about them as politicians because I think that they're both bright, rising young stars within the party. And of course I care about the people. But what I will say, and I think this is the really interesting thing, is more than just focusing on this race in particular and yes, turning Texas blue, I think that the way that this race is being handled is having people look, have a mirror and look at themselves as to what politically motivates them, as in, as voters. And I think, and that's kind of, I guess, what I was touching on with Eugene into how people are turning and this goes on both. This comes from both sides of it, I guess, more so when I say both sides, I mean within the party of the James versus Jasmine, it's what, what is, what is your motivation for voting for Jasmine? I think those are real questions that you have to ask yourself if it's based on identity. And I think with James, that's the exact same question, is what is your motivation for him? Are you into voting for someone who, just because they're a white male, that you think is more easy for Texans to digest and has a better chance of beating Paxton or Corn and whoever might win that primary? I think that this race is going to make people really ask themselves, why do I vote for this person? Or you should be. At least we should be asking ourselves that question. It goes deeper than black versus white man versus woman. It's. As a, as a leftist or a liberal or a Democrat or however you want to say it, what is it that's motivating you? And it shouldn't be the two things that I named when it comes to James and Jasmine. It should be much deeper than that if the goal is to really get the things that we want from a system that is failing us.

[A]

Right. The things that we want and the things that we're entitled to. We're gonna have a squatter conversation again. Okay, look, I want. I want Julie K. Brown on the podcast to tell the story of Epstein. But we gotta talk about. The N word is back. Donnie.

[B]

The N. We.

[A]

It.

[B]

We just talked about it last week. I did not see him, by the way.

[A]

Didn't see who?

[B]

Ted.

[A]

He wasn't there.

[B]

He might have been there, but he wasn't there.

[A]

He apologized.

[B]

He said sorry on a story. Instagram story. I saw.

[A]

Yeah, he said. Then they was put. Apparently Ted loved the N word. Cause he was on a fly football game. Something else. He was getting busy with it after the apology. No, this is before.

[B]

Okay, well, we knew he loved it before and he still.

[A]

Oh, did you see that? Drake followed Trump? Is that true? Hey, somebody look that up and see if that's true. It looked like Drake followed Trump. Logan was into that.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

What? I didn't even.

[B]

I did see that. Drake followed.

[A]

Trump's a big Drake fan.

[C]

No, he's not.

[A]

You don't like Drake. I don't.

[C]

I don't know the man.

[A]

Do you like his music? It's not wrong to be a Drake fan.

[C]

I don't know none of these dudes.

[A]

Hey, Jay. Okay, let's take a. Bernard. You with Drake. You like his older music? You like Drake.

[C]

Why is it 9am in Dallas is one of the most. Provided one of the most formidable moments of my life.

[A]

Yeah. Kendrick now is binary. Can you like everybody like on the mic, can all y' all are younger. Can you be a fan of both Drake and Kendrick?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

So you can be a fan of both Drake and Kendrick. Is the Drake following Trump's true or is that like erroneous in some sort of way? He's not following. He's not following Trump.

[B]

Well, was he and did he delete it after the back?

[A]

Some people were saying that Drake maybe became a Trump supporter or something like that. And then we was. Some people were saying this is. This is that. That could be propaganda. That's. That's put out there. There's nothing wrong with being a Drake fan and a Kendrick fan.

[B]

I. I don't think so. I like both of their music.

[A]

Right.

[C]

What's your favorite Drake song?

[A]

My favorite Drake song?

[C]

Yeah. Both of y'.

[B]

All.

[C]

That says a lot about you.

[A]

My. My favorite Drake song. Is probably like Parris. More music.

[C]

Oh, you were simping then, huh? He was out there doing some real life simple.

[A]

That's like. Like, that's. That's. But he. But he rapping on that.

[C]

He was rapping.

[A]

Drake used to be rapping, man. He's like. He's rapping on that. Like, Drake. Get busy.

[C]

Rachel, what's your favorite culture?

[A]

The culture wars.

[B]

I don't know. I don't know if I have one.

[E]

Oh, my God.

[B]

Okay, what's yours?

[C]

I got. I got some. 9am in Dallas is great.

[B]

In Dallas is good.

[C]

What else? What was I like? Club paradise was a really good song. Like a lot of Lucy's I like. Yeah, man. Drake got me through some real emotional times in the 2010, 2011 era, like, right after high school.

[A]

That's tough, you know?

[B]

Got you through some times.

[A]

Got you through some times.

[C]

But Doc got me through some times too, right? Like, ADHD was like, also around.

[A]

That music there, to me, is legendary, you know? Like, all of that is legendary, man. All, like, all of that. Like, that is legendary, man. That's all I'm going to say. Like, ADHD, Section 80.

[C]

High power.

[A]

Like high power, man. Rigor mortis, bruh. Like, all of them records, like, that is legendary. Like, you listen to that music, and as soon as you hear the music, you're like, oh, this different, bro. I'm just being for real. And you know what's funny is you felt the same. You said you felt the same way with so Far Gone. Really? You listen to so Far Gone? Lust for Life. Come on. Drake is rapping, and then he starts singing in the middle of the. What the is this doing? And you're like, oh, I kind of with this a little bit, right? So, like. But, like, you know, I listen to. I listen to Kendrick and all of this stuff.

[C]

Oh, no, no. Forgot another one.

[B]

I'm so Money Trees is my favorite. Kendrick.

[A]

That's that. That. This is legendary.

[C]

Can we talk about one more Drake song? That was really.

[A]

What's about Drake Successful. Oh, you with that.

[C]

What?

[A]

You love that. You love that record.

[C]

You don't like successful?

[B]

I'm good. It didn't move me like that.

[C]

How old were you? So never mind. I'll never ask black woman. How old is she Is how old?

[B]

I was in, like, law school when that came out.

[C]

Oh, y' all wasn't really. Yeah, y' all wasn't in, like, the trench.

[B]

No, I remember it was like, a big deal.

[A]

We gonna have to do a whole podcast about these rappers Too.

[C]

Let's do it.

[A]

These rappers is. I don't know, man. I don't know where we stand with these rappers.

[B]

I like that Logan said Jade is a rapper. Wait, I like that you said we gotta have a conversation about these rappers on this podcast. Logan goes, let's do it. Logan already done deemed himself in the. In the seat to have conversation.

[A]

Let's do it.

[D]

Let's do.

[C]

Do it.

[A]

We got. We gotta talk. Jay. You know what? Jay.

[B]

Yeah, Jay.

[A]

Jay is a rapper. Since Jay says you are a rapper, we have to have a conversation. Because, listen, I'm not gonna get into the whole thing, but I do have a thought, and I'm crystallizing this thought, trying to get it the whole time that we thought that it was hip hop against the white American power structure, we might have been wrong. It might have been hip hop against everyone. Hip hop might be an entity that actually only serves hip hop. And I know that that's difficult, but the more I see all of this stuff, man, it's getting tough.

[C]

Like, she says she doesn't agree.

[A]

I know, and that's why. And I could be wrong. That's why I'm saying we go. But you gonna have to represent rappers.

[E]

We'll have the conversation.

[A]

Yeah, we're gonna have to represent rappers. And I know the history. I know everything that hip hop is being involved in and all of this stuff, but God damn, man. It seemed like, especially right now, every time we just need somebody to be like Ice, they. They go to the Michael Rubin party.

[B]

Why does it always come back?

[A]

I'm just saying, bro. It's just. It just seems like we In a moment to where we really.

[B]

Gavin Newsom was there.

[A]

Gavin. All right, man.

[B]

A lot of politicians. A lot of politicians were outsiders.

[A]

I bet they were, bro. And, you know, shout out to everybody having a good time. I'm no better than anyone. I swear to God, I'll be watching porn. But.

[C]

So I'm like, come on, bro.

[A]

Like, why? No better than no one. I promise you. I'm not judging nobody. I'm just saying that, like, could we do the whole thing? Could we do. Like, could we do. I gotta get my money and black people need help and fuck Ice. Can we do it all together? Can we do the whole thing? You know, it seems like at one time we thought that that was a part of it, and now is different.

[C]

I mean, Cardi B just said f ice on her last concert.

[A]

Love it.

[B]

She did on her show. Love it in our latest show.

[A]

But, like, I think it's time for us to maybe have a conversation with hip hop.

[C]

And I think I'm going to say this. I think the conversation is kind of already happening right now, right? I think the biggest. No, man, the conversation is happening. I think the biggest thing that's happening right now with hip hop is that is just going through this transformation right now. It's not necessarily seen on the charts, but hip hop is. Is basically what the community is talking about at a given moment in time, right? There's. And it goes in waves, right? You got the shiny shoe era and that gives way to another era which births like Kendrick, Drake and J. Cole and then they flourish and they get hella corporate and then the system breaks down and it comes back up like that's just how it goes. It's a cyclical thing right now.

[A]

This is what I mean. We move on to apology rating, we end the show. This is what I mean though, so. And once again, I haven't really thought this out in a real way about what I actually mean. Okay, so when I was growing up as a kid in the 90s, there was an understanding of a couple of things. Number one, it was hard to be a young black male in society. I'm saying young black male because that was the focus of the ire of hip hop at that time. Nobody was coming out and going like, we gotta stop Queen Latifah. Queen Latifah is one of the greatest rappers ever. But no one was coming out and saying what the question was. These particularly young men from these places and how their visions and views of where they come from, how that was going to influence American youth and whether or not that was going to incept something into American youth. And culturally not. There were people who spoke out, right, like see Dolores Tucker, Calvin Butts, all these people like that, like that. The rappers was going against it though. But culturally we, culturally we protected them. We protected them number one, because you know, we know the choice matrix that young brothers have in the community and we know that there's a lot of good brothers out there doing things that are not great. And we not trying to throw them away. And we really not. We not trying to throw them away. I'm not trying to throw them away. Now we get that. But there might have been something that happened, are really well meaning and sincere want to protect them. Might have done the same thing that I'm talking about was done for these politicians. It might have insulated them from actually feeling like they owe anything at all. It might have made it about Well, I can say anything, do anything, act anyway, be completely amongst my own and not be a part of whatever y' all niggas got going on, because that is my right, and I deserve that. And I came from a fucked up place, so I deserve all the trappings of my wealth and fame and all of that stuff. Stuff like that. And so by the time we got to a conversation about trying to have, you know, community with people who we've empowered like that, then it was kind of like, you can't do anything to stop my art. You can't do anything to stop my expression. You can't. Now you're just like the white people in the 90s that was telling me what I should and should not say. I'm not ever trying to tell a rapper what they should and should not say. But if we are in community with one another, shouldn't we be able to talk about what we should and should not do? Is that okay? Cause I'm willing to have that conversation about me all the time. People like, give me some tighten up. So shouldn't we be able to have a conversation about, in this situation right now, why Kanye became a Nazi, Nicki Minaj became a puppet. Why all of this stuff you, like, all of these guys are vaguely fucking with this administration that is, like, overtly authoritarian, and you can't tell them nothing. Like, you can't.

[B]

Right?

[A]

Like, you. Like you. You. You literally just trying to have a conversation. You can't tell them nothing because they don't fucking feel like they owe you anything. They, like, they owe each other, but not anything to the wider community that gave them these big cultural weapons. I don't really know. It just. It's. I'm. I'm an old nigga. I'm old. That. That. That is what this conversation is actually about. I am old.

[B]

Okay? We should be able to have these conversations, and it should be a bigger conversation. We talked about this on the podcast before. Has nothing to do with you being old. It's with you caring. That's really what it comes down to.

[A]

You know what? You know what?

[B]

Hey, can we get to. To. Yeah, we gotta do it, y'.

[A]

All. You know what, y'? All. That. Y' all don't listen to that man. That.

[C]

You know what?

[A]

Like the. What I'm talking about. Oh. Ass.

[B]

Donnie, donnie, donnie. Two hours.

[E]

Can we get step in?

[D]

All right.

[E]

HD HGTV's rehab addict has officially been canceled after his host, Nicole Curtis, was caught using a racial slur in a brand new way. Let's Hear it.

[B]

Why? It's my last one. Oh, fart nigger. What the fuck is that? That I just said? Nick, you gotta. You gotta. Can you kill that?

[A]

My life Publicity stunt. Rachel, go ahead.

[B]

She lost her show, so. Publicity stunt.

[A]

It's a publicity stunt. I don't see how this happened.

[B]

What's the. What's the. Okay, if it is a publicity stunt, then what. How did she benefit from this? Help me understand.

[A]

Publicity stunt. I don't know what happened.

[B]

So you don't have a reason as to how this.

[A]

Where's the video? How did this video get out?

[B]

I guess it was a behind. I guess it was. How do other videos get out?

[A]

What I'm asking is, did somebody.

[E]

It's from Radar. Radar? Oh, Radar exclusively obtained this footage.

[A]

Oh, so Radar got the footage?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So somebody taped it.

[B]

Okay, it was taped and she said cut it. What did you think? Why did you think it was a publicity sign?

[A]

Because I do think that there's some currency right now in saying the N word.

[B]

Listen, if she wants a whole career path change, fine. If she wants to be like old girl who was on TikTok and was. Was saying the N word and, like, repeating on it, and then she's on Piers Morgan and whatever, and, you know, all that stuff that didn't work out so well for her, I would. It would be hard for me to imagine that this woman who's on hgtv, Rehab, Haddock, rehab, addicts. I don't know how many seasons the show's been on. I guess it's a popular show there. It's been on for several seasons. The host of the show to throw it all away over this. I find that hard to believe. I mean, they. They canceled it, as they should, in response to her. I've never even heard those two words together before.

[A]

Interesting.

[B]

Have you?

[A]

No. I mean, once again.

[B]

Yeah, no, that sounds like a term that she says all the time. Cause I've never heard that before. Like, I guess you still think it's a publicity stunt. I'm trying to understand the benefit of it.

[A]

I mean, I honestly, I'm starting to get skeptical about all of this shit. Okay. I think what Tet did was a publicity stunt. How he's on streaming using the N word.

[B]

Doesn't that happen? I'm not a streamer. But don't people do that on the game all the time? He's not. The first, will be the last.

[A]

I understand.

[B]

That says it.

[A]

What I'm saying is that, like, I. So, okay, let me tell you why.

[B]

And then this is a conspiracy theory.

[A]

It's not, it's not conspiracy theory. But sometimes having worked in this or area or arena, people do scandalous to like, generate headlines.

[B]

Of course.

[A]

Yeah. Now with her, it is very true that she lost her show. Maybe she didn't think that was gonna happen. I never heard of her till now.

[B]

Yeah, we don't watch that.

[A]

So, so like it. It so to me, stuff like this sometimes to me, maybe not this. Maybe I could be wrong. Once again, I'm wrong. Wrong a lot. Maybe, maybe this is not that, but I don't know, man. Just fart nigger. The way she said it, it didn't. It seemed like some shit that she wanted. I don't know, man.

[B]

It doesn't seem like she wanted it. Listen, I, I, I, this is what I took from this. Don't know her. Never heard of her. Not even going to make the, the, the do the research to really understand who Nicole Curtis is. She could be walking down the street from here on out. I'm never going to know who she is. But I don't watch the show. Rehab addict. I don't agree with you that this is a publicity stunt. And to use your phrase, and I'll tell you why. Immediately after she said it, she asked them to cut it. She asked them if they could get rid of this. This footage that tells me right there and the terminology that she used. Fart nigger. I've never heard those two words together. And her immediate response wasn't, oh, my God, I'm so sorry I said that. I can't, like believe it. I apologize to everybody in the room. It was, can we kill that? Can we get rid of that? Can we cover it up? So, 1. She uses this term all the time. She uses this term. She puts. She has put those two words together. It is a. It is a part of her vocabulary. It is a part of her being of who she is. 2. Her immediate thought was, how do I cover this up so nobody can see the type of person that I really am? And that did not work well for her. We now know who she is. We now know what she's about. And we now. And she now lost her job. I don't give you. She has a post. She posted an apology she sent to tmz. It's three paragraphs. I don't care. That's where I am with this. N words. I don't care. I don't care. You're not sorry. You say it again. You say it. You're sorry until you got caught. You're sorry for the 15 seconds that we have to acknowledge your apology. And. And then you're right back to where you were before. Like, I wouldn't be shocked. You say it's a publicity stunt. I wouldn't be shocked then if she has a YouTube show called Fart N telling you.

[A]

I think the N word could be looked at as the new leak in your nudes. Something that you do when you want to look edgy, when you want people to talk about you. This is stuff that I know about. I could be wrong about this.

[B]

Name one person who's. Who's said the N word and then has built. It was so edgy and so provocative, and it gets the people going that they have success from this.

[A]

Lindsey Lily Gaddis.

[B]

That's who I was talking about. She hasn't, though.

[A]

But what I'm saying.

[B]

Didn't she renege and, like, now she regrets it all?

[A]

Well, what I'm saying is she reneged.

[B]

Keyword.

[A]

She nigged, then she reneged.

[E]

Nigg.

[A]

You can only nigg once. Really. You can't renege. Okay.

[E]

Yeah.

[A]

If you don't. Nick.

[B]

She's gone back.

[A]

Nick. I don't like. If you're gonna nigg, just nigg.

[B]

She was popular for literally 15 minutes.

[A]

But what I'm saying is that, like, now this whole conversation. Edgy. Whatever the. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe I'm wrong. I just. I don't care that much about this. I did come up with several songs that.

[E]

What?

[A]

That surrounded this.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Because there's a song with no limit called Swamp.

[B]

Oh, okay.

[A]

And you could just change it to Fart Nigga.

[D]

Okay.

[A]

It's very funny. Okay. Okay. I fucking laughed about it. I was this morning in the shower. I almost couldn't finish because, like. Finish the shower. Cause I'm in there.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

I was like, finish the sentence. Yeah, please.

[D]

This you were talking about, like, I.

[B]

Need you to complete that sentence.

[A]

Dope. You know? But I. You know, it's just. It's funny.

[B]

You like the term.

[A]

No, I don't.

[B]

You like it.

[A]

I don't like it.

[B]

You like it?

[A]

It's funny, though.

[B]

It's funny to you?

[A]

It is. It's so, first of all, what does it mean? I have no idea.

[B]

What does it mean?

[A]

I'm not. But I'm not about to get up and be mad about this, though, because.

[B]

Like, I'm not bad. I'm annoyed. I'm annoyed by this.

[A]

It was like. I'm not. You know, it's not that I'm saying you don't care. I'll be honest. I don't care. I don't care.

[B]

Let them all say it.

[A]

No, that's not what I'm saying. That's not what I'm saying. I'm not saying let them all say it. I'm not saying that. You say it. You got to get your ass kicked. We got to maintain guardrails. I'm not saying that at all. But what I am saying is I saw this and I was like, she's fucked. And then I was thinking, did she do that on purpose? But you've made the point. Maybe she didn't do it on purpose.

[B]

It's not going to go well for her.

[A]

You don't think that she's like now, okay, this is what we'll do.

[B]

If she did a GoFundMe. Yeah, she'll get some. She'll get money.

[A]

That's fair. That's fair. It's two different people between her and Lily. This is what we'll do. What we'll do is we'll watch to see how the fart nigger saga plays itself out.

[B]

We're on fart Nigger watch.

[A]

We're on fart Nigger Watch, right? And so if she ends up, you know, getting a three picture deal, a three season order on Fox Nation, the fart nigger rehab show, Let me go to her page. If she ends up really coming up from it, if she does the whole circuit, if she on Good Morning America and if she on Hannity, if she sits down with Megyn Kelly, if she does all of this stuff, I'm gonna start to think that I was right about the entire fart nigger situation.

[B]

Okay?

[A]

That's how I'm just. That's how it's gonna look to me if she does a whole press run off of it. But if she just like gets low.

[B]

She turned her comments off.

[A]

She turned the comments off.

[B]

I was thinking about writing it on one her.

[A]

How many, how many followers does she have?

[B]

328,000.

[A]

Oh, so she's not even popping like that, man, that's that. She definitely did it on purpose.

[B]

She turned her comments off.

[A]

Shout out to.

[B]

She don't even want people she wants. Let's just forget I really was gonna write fart nigger on her page.

[A]

Send her a dm. Send her a fart nigga. Dm. Everybody DM her.

[B]

Fart nigga.

[A]

If you listen to the podcast right now, what's her.

[B]

What's her at Detroit Design.

[A]

Detroit Design. At Detroit design, everyone right now. Everybody right now, send her a DM and just say, fart nigga. Just see it. Let her know that she's got to see us. She can't erase us. Okay? She's got to see us. All right, Apology rating for her. She. She. Apologize. What you got?

[B]

We're doing that.

[A]

She.

[B]

Yeah, she said it's a zero.

[A]

Zero. How would you like her? Be her and give the right apology for fart nigger. Like, what would you do?

[B]

That one's tough because she clearly is like, can we kill it?

[A]

Right?

[B]

I guess I would say, no. I'm not gonna give them anything.

[A]

Just give. Give her Rachel. See, this is the thing.

[B]

No, I don't want to tell her what you should. Like, imagine if somebody says and they use my apology. I'm not trying to help you out. You're not sorry. I'm not going to help you be sorry. I'm not going to help you find your way.

[A]

What would she do? She. This is apology regarding hgtv. I'm grateful. Oh, my bad. There's more to this. But my family. How you know it? What could be more?

[B]

Where did she say there's more to this?

[A]

She says there's more to this, but my family comes first. And I need to be mom right now more than anything else. I will take the time as I always have been with you, transparent and honest. TMZ called me as I had just turned my phone on after being at school. And I said this briefly, but there's more. What she's gonna say is that there's somebody on the production that doesn't like her or that the show is out to get her. Hgtv. Maybe she beefing with the people in Waco because they got their own show. Maybe it's beef. What about them? They gonna say it pretty soon.

[B]

What are their names again?

[A]

I like them, actually. No, they do.

[B]

Their names.

[E]

Oh, my God.

[B]

Chip. Chip and Joanna.

[A]

Chip and Joanna from Waco?

[B]

Yeah. I don't know. I don't really follow this. This world. But no, what she'll come out and say is, you guys didn't see the whole video. You didn't see the part where I was profusely apologizing and I was begging them, you know, like, don't put this out there because this could hurt so many people. This isn't a representation. But you. You missed the part where I was crying and I was so upset because in that video, somebody's laughing in the background and she's kind of smiling. She's like, did I just say that? Yeah, you said that.

[A]

Oh, wow.

[B]

And you've said it again. Okay.

[A]

You trying to, trying to get, trying to throw hands.

[B]

Fart.

[A]

Fart, Fart. I will say this. This makes me think about her. N word count.

[B]

What is it?

[A]

And if she's just saying fart. If she's just saying fart just like that, like when she, like, think about just saying the word when you do something like.

[B]

Yeah, that's, that's, that's in her vocabulary.

[A]

Yeah, you just bang your foot. Fart. Are you just like fart? That tells me that she's in the Mark Wahlberg hall of Fame.

[B]

I, I, she used it as a what an adjective.

[A]

So, you know, we're gonna call it if, if somebody's in the Mark Wahlberg hall of Fame hall of Fame, we're gonna say that they are amongst the Departed. That's the name of this they. The Departed. She's in the Departed with Mark Wahlberg and, you know, other Nick kid rocking that. Like, there's a lot of people that's probably up there in that situation. So good for her. Nicole Curtis. We'll see what happens. We'll continue to watch the story. Donnie. We gonna continue to watch this story. I'm out of it, but y'.

[D]

All.

[A]

Logan.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

Tell people they can find you.

[C]

You can find me twice a week on real Ones on the ringer NBA show Tuesday and Friday. You can find me at the LA Convention center on Saturday of your want to say what's up? And you might be able to find me at a van Illuminati party on Friday.

[A]

It's not.

[C]

I'm kind of scared. I'm not going to lie.

[A]

But you know, Carl Cherry invited party. It's like, I don't know Carl Cherry. He the music guy. He wears.

[D]

Okay, okay, okay.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

Something different.

[C]

Illuminati. Nonetheless.

[A]

He run.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Carl didn't invite me, but that's okay. I didn't know his name, so that's fair.

[A]

You. Yeah. You don't even remember who he was.

[B]

I knew about Face.

[A]

You know him by face.

[B]

I know him by face. Guys, last day to vote for the NAACP Image Awards. Nominated four times. This is our year. This is it. Help us make it happen. If you've already voted. If you've already voted. Send it off to somebody else. Get them to vote. I think we deserve it. We're proud of what we do here.

[D]

Oh, shit.

[B]

Don is in our category. Never mind. I didn't realize he was. He's in two categories, though, I think. But, damn, Don is a martyr. He's gonna win. You know, he has a speech already ready. Call him and ask him if he has a speech ready.

[A]

I would. I would be surprised. See if Don answers the phone.

[B]

Call him and see if he has.

[A]

They didn't just give the award to Don.

[B]

Tell him we're in the same category and ask him if he already has his speech ready.

[A]

Yeah, I think Don know what's up. Don gonna win, man. Don gonna win. And is that. Is that. Is. And you guys. Is he. And you know, what the fuck? You gotta. Let's see if he answered the phone. Let's see if Don Lemon. If we can get Don Lemon to pick up the phone. It's ringing. Hell, nah. Nope.

[C]

Sorry.

[B]

The person you were trying to reach, Tom, he's swerving.

[A]

You crazy, man.

[B]

You notice I make you call and not me.

[A]

Crazy. Crazy. Oh, I got a text, though. Let's see. Oh, can I call you later? Yes, Don. Yes, Don fucking Lemon. Yes, he acknowledged the call. Don Lemon. You guys, seriously, all jokes aside, I got. I'm saying this before we go. I'm very proud of what Don Lemon has been able to do.

[B]

Of course.

[A]

Okay. Like, very proud of the fact that Don Lemon. That journalism that you guys saw in that church, no matter what the. The administration says, is some of the best journalism I've seen going in there, covering stories like that, reinventing himself, owning it, doing this whole thing is. Is worth everything that he's getting. You know, we from two different worlds. You know, from Baton Rouge, but still from two different worlds. Two different worlds. The hoodie and the suit, it's two different things, but at the same time, I got a lot of respect for the way he's comported himself when he's been under attack by the administration. Okay, we out of here. Thanks to to Logan, thanks to Donnie, thanks to ct, thanks to Jay, thanks to Bernard. Take thing caps off with do not stop learning.

[B]

I'm Van Lathan Jr. And I'm Rachel and Lindsay. Bye, guys.