← Higher Learning with Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay
Higher Learning with Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay
Feeling for Josh Allen, Stephen A. and the Bruhs, Plus Charlie Kirk the Time Traveler
02:18:28
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- [00:00]
A
Foreign. Yo, yo, yo, Thought Warriors. What is up? Higher learning is on. It's Ivan Lathen Jr.
- [00:16]
B
And it's me, Rachel, and Lindsey. I wasn't recording. I hadn't pressed the record button.
- [00:21]
A
Okay, so what's going on with you? Where are you at?
- [00:25]
B
I'm in Miami. For the game. Well, not really just for the game. I mean, I work with the foundation, so I do this every year.
- [00:32]
A
I've heard. I've heard. People been telling me you've been popping up everywhere.
- [00:35]
B
I literally. You. You love to do this whenever. I'll get it from you. During super bowl weekend, I'm sure I'll get it from you. Our all Star Weekend. I'm not everywhere. I'm just a foundation event.
- [00:47]
A
People hit me up. I seen your homegirl. I was walking into a restaurant. Seen your homegirl. I was in tootsies. I see your homegirl all over the place.
- [00:55]
B
I haven't been there in a long time.
- [00:57]
A
Yeah, you're doing your thing. I have a question for you. I want to start the podcast with a question before we get into a really serious issue. We're starting the podcast with a really serious issue. Donnie. I'm gonna. I'm actually gonna. The first topic that we get to. After I ask Rachel this question, I'm gonna do it because, you guys, we continuously attempt on this podcast to talk about the things that are most pertinent to our world.
- [01:22]
B
Yeah.
- [01:23]
A
And we're just getting a ton of important things happening all the time. It's like such a dense news time right now. It's very, very difficult to keep up with the super important things that are happening. So we're going to start the podcast with one of those. But before I get to this, I have a question for you.
- [01:41]
B
Yes.
- [01:41]
A
Really? Really? For everyone here, Everyone that knows who had the highest peak, like the highest peak, the highest heights. Cisco or Neo. Who got to. Because I'm talking about at their hottest. Who got the hottest? Who was the hottest? It's Cisco.
- [02:06]
B
It's Cisco. Now, you know I'm always gonna fall back on the true hill of it all. But. And I know you're talking solo. I know you're talking solo. I know. But, you know. No, no, I know it's solo, but you know my affinity.
- [02:18]
A
I'm not talking about as, like, writing songs and all of that. Just the highest height, the peak pinnacle. Who got to the peak pinnacle? Cisco or Neo?
- [02:28]
B
You have to say Cisco. Name the Neo song that is equivalent to Thong Song.
- [02:36]
A
The person I was arguing with says that so Sick of Love Songs has endured.
- [02:42]
B
Stop.
- [02:43]
A
Hold on for us. Wait a second though. Look at the kids. Like it. The person I was arguing with says that so Sick of Love Songs has endured more than the Thong Song has.
- [02:54]
C
That's not your question, though.
- [02:55]
B
Sorry to this person. Sorry to this person, whoever said this. But go ahead, Donnie. No, Donnie. Donnie, please go.
- [03:03]
C
Well, no, that's just not Vance question. He asked what is who had the highest peak, not who endured or who had the longest impact. Yeah, highest peak. I think Rachel's argument is correct.
- [03:14]
A
Well, I agree with Rachel. I think that is. I think that is clearly Cisco, without a doubt. But I got basically culturally bitched out by somebody who did it. Not bitched out like, but like, hey, how could you say it was Cisco? Neo was way bigger than Cisco was Neo. I don't think that that's true.
- [03:36]
B
Who said it?
- [03:37]
A
I can't talk about it. Man.
- [03:39]
B
Was it a man or a woman?
- [03:41]
A
It was a man.
- [03:42]
B
Okay. Thong Song still reigns, like, to be one of the best. Like a top song. Not just for Cisco, just whatever year it came out. The beat drops, everybody starts dancing. Remember how he was dancing on the beach? It's just. It was such a movement. Like, it still gets people going. So Sick of Love Songs is a pretty song. It's nice. People sing along to it, but. But like, it doesn't have an impact. Like a slow song like Love by Keyshia Cole when that. Everybody's singing that song. Like it's. It's. I wouldn't. I don't even know if that's Neo's best song.
- [04:19]
A
It's a number one.
- [04:21]
B
That's the number one.
- [04:22]
A
No, no, no. It's a number one. It's a number one on the Billboard Hot 100. It's a. It's a number one. It's a number one hit. Which was the argument here that Neo got to a point. And I. I think when I was having this discussion, Neo lasted. Neo's peak lasted a little bit longer than Cisco's. Cause Cisco's second album, when it came out, had all kinds of problems and stuff like that. But Neo's peak lasted a little bit longer. But if. I think if it's peak. Cause we're not even talking about Cisco's actual biggest record. His actual biggest record is not the Thong song.
- [04:55]
B
What was it?
- [04:56]
A
It's incomplete.
- [04:58]
B
Really.
- [04:59]
A
That's his actual biggest record. Like his actual biggest record is incomplete. So. But I just feel like at the time that Cisco was doing his thing. Cause it wasn't even just then, it was. It was like the DMX record. What these Bitches Want from a Nigga. I tell you what the fuck is going on.
- [05:18]
B
Remember that's. Remember that's my most problematic song. Remember, you asked that. You were like, what's the song that you like? That's problematic. That's mine.
- [05:25]
A
But y'.
- [05:25]
B
All.
- [05:25]
A
We know y' all like that music. Y' all dance to it.
- [05:28]
B
And then that's my most problematic song. But don't do this, don't do that.
- [05:35]
A
Oh, my next substack is called the Genius Tax. It's about the Genius tax and the Genius tax that we're willing to pay for some people that we're not willing to pay for others.
- [05:47]
B
Right.
- [05:47]
A
It's interesting. So that's the next substack. So we're here, all of us, to settle this argument. We're saying that the peak, if you're talking peak, is Cisco. Do y' all think Cisco. You think it's Neo over here? Jay?
- [06:07]
B
I agree with. If we're just talking Peak, Cisco, But I. I definitely think Neo has much greater impact.
- [06:13]
A
Wow. Jay says Neo has a greater impact.
- [06:16]
B
Different.
- [06:17]
A
Peak is Cisco.
- [06:18]
B
Peak is Cisco.
- [06:19]
A
So if we talking, like, 2000. Two, 2000 versus, like, the peak of them, then I feel like Cisco got hotter. I feel like Cisco was hotter at one point. That's the whole thing, anyway. All right, well, I was right told. I'll bring it up on the podcast.
- [06:35]
B
And people, yeah, Neo consistently was putting out hits, like, every. There was, like, every time in the 2000s, every year, he was putting out hits. Cisco didn't have that. And then Cisco's career was, like, immediately after the success of Drew Hill. Right. It was like, back to back. But, yeah, longevity. It's Neo.
- [06:54]
A
Also, there's something. Something that you have to say for Neo, too, is Neo was writing a lot of the biggest records. Neo was writing to the left. To the left. Beyonce joint. Even though she said to the left, to the left, she said that she wrote it. And then he came back, was like, nah, I wrote it. That was like a little. People don't really remember that little back and forth right there. It's like she said she wrote.
- [07:18]
B
She wrote on it.
- [07:20]
A
And he would come back and be like, yeah, she might have put in a melody or something like that. I wrote the record. It's like, God damn, yo.
- [07:25]
B
Okay. I mean, but wouldn't you do that if somebody. If, like, you wrote such a huge record that, like, people. It's like an anthem for so many Women especially. And someone's gonna say, you didn't write on it. He kind of had to.
- [07:39]
A
Yeah. You know, I wonder, did he write.
- [07:41]
B
For her after that?
- [07:43]
A
I don't know. She. She started fucking with the dream and then, like, it was different. But Beyonce's come, like, such a long way as a solo creator for herself. Like, she like, almost like in a Michael Jackson type way. When Michael Jackson is with the Jackson 5 and Motown obviously has a stable of writers and all of that stuff, Michael Jackson learns, decodes and has his own style and his own point of view. And then Michael starts writing and producing a lot of stuff for himself, but also with other people like Quincy Jones and people like that, Teddy Riley and all of that stuff. So that's kind of the same trajectory that Beyonce was on. I'll say that. Like, I've often thought about this in with the Neo situation because as a writer, you are taking like a back seat. It's kind of. You're writing for someone else, so you want to, I guess, at the same time let everybody know, hey, I wrote this, but maybe not in a way that I overshadows the artist. I don't know if that's a thing. I'd have to, like, interview a writer or something like that. I'd have to interview someone. But for Neo, for someone who has that type of songwriting capability, it was very important to him, I guess, that people knew that he wrote that record.
- [08:55]
B
It's part of as it should have Been that makes all the sense in the world. I forgot about that. So you said it. This podcast is brought to you by Carvana. Car shopping shouldn't feel like preparing for a marathon of paperwork. That's why Carvana makes buying and financing your car easy. From start to finish. Search thousands of vehicles with great prices, all online, all on your time. And when you're ready, your new car shows up right at your door. It doesn't get better than that. Buy your car the easy way on Carvana. Delivery fees may apply.
- [09:31]
A
You guys, there's a lot of serious things that are happening in the world right now. A lot of serious things. But I'm not gonna lie. Something happened yesterday. Actually, it wasn't yesterday. It happened Saturday. And it was so sad, so heart wrenching that people on Twitter, they were really moved by it. They just could not stop talking about it. And, you know, when we talk about these things a lot of times, it's difficult because you don't want to talk about things and, like, lean into victimization. You don't want to feel like a victim. You don't want to make somebody else a victim. But in this situation, I've never seen an outpouring of grief like I saw when Josh Allen threw four fucking interceptions. And actually, he didn't throw four.
- [10:34]
B
He didn't throw four. He threw two.
- [10:36]
A
He threw two picks and he lost two fumbles. And the outpouring that I saw from so many on social media, the outpouring that I saw from so many just in the sports world, in and around the sports world for Josh Allen, fucking off a game that they probably should have won. I've never seen anything like it before. You have Robert Griffin iii. This raw emotion from, from Josh Allen is why Buffalo and his teammates love him. It means something to him, and he isn't afraid to show it. Real men cry. That's after Josh Allen cried after he turned the ball over four times and the Broncos lost in overtime. Excuse me, one. In overtime, they beat the Bills. NFL, the official NFL. Twitter. The official Twitter of the league.
- [11:20]
B
Yeah.
- [11:20]
A
Tweeted out, gotta feel for Josh Allen. Okay. Chase Daniel, feel absolutely awful for Josh Allen. Seems like the same ending every year for him. Then he went in to talk about the turnovers. I mean, Dan Orlovsky, Josh Allen, Albert Breer, hard not to feel terrible for Josh Allen. Carried that offense this year. Josh Allen had the number one rusher in the entire NFL. That nigga, he had the whole. He had the number one rusher in the entire NFL. Okay. The guy who led the NFL in rushing played for Josh Allen's team. He carried the offense the whole year, bowed through a ton of injuries. Will be cool to see him in a Super Bowl Sunday, but it won't be this year. Wow. You know, listen to me. I, honestly, I haven't seen anything like this in a long time. I don't want to talk about the time that we've seen an outpouring like this just recently before. I don't want to bring that up. I think you guys know, some of you might have lost your jobs because of that outpouring. I haven't seen anything like that for a white man since that other time. I think you guys, I, I, I. My heart goes out to Josh Allen, too. Like, my heart goes out to Josh Allen too. He. Four turnovers in the game. Fuck the game off. But, man, man, oh, man, we got to do something. We gotta, we gotta, we gotta reach out to him. We gotta help him. Gotta help a Josh Allen.
- [12:50]
B
When you started off talking about this, I thought, oh, my gosh, which topic Is he leading with. About halfway through, I knew where you were going with it. Now, I will admit there was a lot of support for Josh Allen, but, you know. But, you know. No, stop, stop, stop, stop. You know why? You know why? You know why?
- [13:15]
A
I don't know anything. All I know is that I saw somebody go out and play a pretty.
- [13:21]
B
Shitty game who was favored to win that game.
- [13:25]
A
I think the line was like, 1 5. The Broncos were at home.
- [13:28]
B
The Broncos. Okay, so here's the thing. For people who don't watch football, yes, it was a lot. It was excessive, the support. But as one of the people read, one of the tweeters that you read said, it seems like the same outcome for Josh Allen. Josh Allen has led his team to the playoffs. 17. 17. I mean, seven times. He can never get to the super bowl this time, not even the AFC championship last year. He won the mvp, Right?
- [14:06]
A
He won the mvp.
- [14:07]
B
He won mvp. And what was the storyline about him winning the mvp?
- [14:10]
A
It was that Lamar Jackson had a better season, that.
- [14:15]
B
But everyone was like, oh, well, he doesn't have that many weapons. And what he was able to accomplish as a. As an individual player, you know, is why he's so deserving of the mvp. They don't even really equip him with the offensive weapons that he needed to not have so much on his back. As far as wide receivers, you mentioned. Obviously, you mentioned James Cook. That's different. But as far as wide receivers, they pretty much give him the same thing. Again, I didn't think that they would play as well that they did this game, especially with the injuries that they have going into it, especially with him not having the offensive weapons that he needs to get over the hump to have a. To put them in a position to win the Super Bowl.
- [14:55]
A
Is going on.
- [14:56]
B
You don't. What's going on?
- [14:58]
A
What are you talking about?
- [15:00]
B
What are you talking about?
- [15:02]
A
It's fine. He's.
- [15:04]
B
No, no, no, no. Let me just. I want to explain to people why I think people are rallying around him so much. I'm not a bit. I'm not. I'm not in support of the Buffalo Bills or, like, a super fan by any means. But the point being is I don't think people thought they were gonna even come as close as they did in winning the game. And they were down until the third quarter, until they came back. And so I think that there was this hope even more so that they were gonna win, that they were gonna make it. I'm not even gonna talk about the officiating that everybody's so upset about, I think that they had where they were like, oh, my gosh, we're gonna get there. And then they didn't. He wasn't the only one crying. You had Cooks crying in his locker. They said he was crying so hard, his body was shaking. You had, I don't remember the other player who was, who started crying.
- [15:51]
A
The big lineman. Yeah.
- [15:52]
B
Who started crying when they said, how do you feel about Josh Allen taking it on himself? I think that they were so hopeful that they thought they were going to win that it made the defeat even harder. That's why I think everybody was so emotional and then so supportive. And then here again, Josh Allen almost got there and once again lost. I agree it's excessive, but I understand that they were built up so high this game, and then it just all came crumbling down to what they feel was a bad call.
- [16:22]
A
So this is what happened, in my opinion, in the past, Josh Allen has been up against quarterbacks, Lamar Jackson.
- [16:35]
B
Patrick.
- [16:36]
A
Guys like that, and he has not been able to get past them. For whatever reason, he's come up short in these games. You look at the landscape of QBs now that were in this year's playoffs, all right, there's no Patrick Mahomes. There's no Lamar Jackson. A lot of the other guys that are gone, that are elite, not in these playoffs, okay, you had Caleb, you had C.J. strout, you had Drake May, you had Bo Nicks, you had the teams that surround these guys. Of course you had those teams, but you also had guys that or teams that people thought that the bills could get passed, and people thought that this would be the year that their golden boy would get past those teams. And then the golden boy went out and turned the ball over four times. And rather than do what we do with everyone else, the way we treat a James Harden, the way we treat a Lamar Jackson, we don't talk about what happened. We talk about what we wished happened and how bad we feel. Y' all don't feel bad for Lamar Jackson? Y' all don't feel bad for James Harden? Y' all don't even feel bad? I don't. You don't feel bad for Luca? Like what? I, you know, you guys don't feel bad? I just don't like the golden boy shit. I don't like it. You feel bad? Yeah, I, I, it's tough when everybody loses. When somebody, When I see the confetti falling and I see somebody on the bench, I go, damn, that's tough. Like, we talked about it. Me and you talked about it. I said it before. I've been on the other side of victories and saw someone that I beat, see their mom crying and all that stuff. I go, ah, man, that's tough. That's tough. That's tough that you had to lose. I'm a bleeding heart. People know that. But what I don't understand is how the reaction was not to analyze how he needs to be better, which. Which is what these sports pundits do, but talk about, like, how bad you feel for them. To me, it to. I was just. I was actually taken aback after a while. I saw a tweet from a lady that said, this is. And this is crazy. I saw a tweet from the lady that said, the lady said, I would rather have Josh Allen as my quarterback than have a Super Bowl. I would rather have Josh Allen.
- [18:49]
B
Just another level.
- [18:50]
A
This is the type of shit that I'm talking about, though. I really don't get it.
- [18:53]
B
I just think it's the perfect storm of what I was saying of also what you said with Mahomes, being out with the Ravens, being out with Lamar. That's who he's gone up against and hasn't been able to get past in the past. And people really thought this was it. But I think that. I think it's excessive. But I'm not shocked at the storyline. Like, look at what the story was going into the game. So I'm not shocked. And the way they lost. I'm not shocked that people are acting like this at all.
- [19:27]
A
The way they lost in terms of the. The controversial call that ended in overtime. Inception.
- [19:32]
B
Yeah.
- [19:32]
A
And a lot of people say, you know, Josh Allen left the field with the lead. It's true. Left the field with the lead. But all I'm saying is this. You can't turn that over like that, man. You can't. You can't turn that over. Your quarterback, you can't turn that over.
- [19:50]
B
You hear how they were talking about cj? Not that he's been. Not that he's been in the league as long. It's a different story, like a different history coming into the game.
- [19:58]
A
Nobody feels bad for him.
- [19:59]
B
Nobody feels bad. Matter of fact, I heard a commentator say he's really been chasing the success from his rookie season and he hasn't been able to get there.
- [20:07]
A
That was Troy Aikman that said that.
- [20:09]
B
I didn't see who said that.
- [20:10]
A
That was Troy Aikman that said that. Troy Aikman, a guy who was a Great competitor, a great QB that was legitimately on a cyborg football team. You guys, I talk a lot of shit about the Cowboys, but those teams weren't real. They were cyborg football teams. Cyborgs at the motherfucking wide outs, the deep threat. And then obviously y' all can see now that Michael Irvin isn't a human being. You can see him now. He's not a person, he's a thing. You look at him right now, 60, totally shredded. More energy than me. Probably haven't slept in 10 days. The line. A bunch of fucking animals. A bunch of animals. EMT Smith, the greatest rusher of all time. Don't get me started on the defense. Everybody on that team was a bunch of gnarly, gnar out killers. Then they added Deion Sanders to that after a while. What are you talking about? So he is obviously criticizing C.J. stroud because he's like, C.J. stroud hadn't lived up to it. He had to come out, throw a couple of slants, hit one over the top and the Cowboys was going to win. That's what Troy Ackman had.
- [21:22]
B
Okay, that's facts.
- [21:24]
A
Okay, let's look, let's just look at the numbers. Hold on.
- [21:28]
B
While you look at the numbers, I do want to say this about C.J. stroud. Yeah, he's only been in the league for three years, but I was like looking up his stats and it's like he's led his team to the playoffs three times in three years. His percentage, his yard percentage was less this year, but his completions were better. He was at a better percentage. He's actually not still chasing his rookie career. Yeah, he had a bad game last night or yesterday, but he's not doing that much worse. So it is. I just want to like give C.J. stroud some credit. But go ahead, go ahead, tarnish the Cowboys.
- [22:00]
A
Not tarnishing them, go ahead. The best season that Aikman ever had, they were in a run first offense in a different time in the league, straight up. The best season Aikman ever had was 92. He completed 63% of his passes for 3,400 yards, 23 touchdowns and 14 interceptions. Okay, all right. That's the best season that he had. You can maybe say 93. He had a higher quarterback rating, but in 93 he had 15 touchdowns to six interceptions. He. He never threw more than 23 touchdown passes in one season. He never threw for 3,500 yards in the season. It just wasn't that much ass of Troy Aikman. As it was everybody else. He had a lot of people around him, don't get me wrong. Consummate leader, consummate professional. Professional completely in a different era. All of that stuff. Totally different now. I could throw some Damarino numbers in here and some other people numbers in here might over all this dumb ass shit, but those guys didn't win. Um, but I'm saying for him to say it, it's, it's. It's, you know, it's pretty rich. But at the same time, I just. We can move on. I just was. I was very moved by the outpouring of. Of emotion for Josh Allen. They really love him and they really loved Peyton Manning till he fucking slept. Walk to a couple of championships, right? They love the guys they love. They love them. The other people. Y' all gotta go out there and actually play big in the biggest games. So it's very interesting. But you fuck with that. You like that?
- [23:35]
B
I like what you like. Be specific.
- [23:39]
A
You like that type of shit. You think that Josh Allen. You understood it. You understood it.
- [23:45]
B
I totally understood what people. I didn't say I thought it was excessive. I didn't say I agree with it, but I'm not shocked by it.
- [23:52]
A
Yeah, okay. Well, I'm not. I'm not shocked by it either. I just think it's some bullshit. But that's okay. We'll continue. We'll continue to go out here.
- [24:00]
B
I do like to see raw emotion, though, in sports, though. Maybe that's. That's the one thing I'll give you out of all of it, like when to cried. I love it. I love. I love it when they cry.
- [24:11]
A
I have no problem with it. I have no problem with the crying. Him crying for himself is cool. Even Audrey Archie 3 looked at that. He's talking about the crying. No problem with the crying. I have problems with the fact that he turned the ball over four times.
- [24:26]
B
I'd rather.
- [24:27]
A
And on the other side of it, we gotta talk about. He turned the ball over four times. I feel so bad for him. Feel bad for his teammates who have to watch him give the ball up as they're out there performing. Turn the ball over.
- [24:39]
B
I'd rather have Josh Allen as my quarterback than win a Super Bowl. Is crazy. I trade my quarterback in every year for Super Bowl.
- [24:47]
A
Come on now. Oh, oh. I want to get you on this one because we got two frat. We got two frat topics in a row. Donnie.
- [24:54]
C
Yeah. Stephen A. Smith was on his podcast last week addressing claims that he has sold out and while addressing those claims, stepped in it and made it worse. Let's hear what he had to say.
- [25:08]
A
Black people don't like me. I'm from Hollis, Queens, bro. I'm from the streets of New York City. I go. I go to the streets of America, everywhere, all over this country. I'm inside and outside arenas. I'm inside and outside local businesses and stuff like that. I'm the ambassador for HBCU week. In concert with Ashley Christopher and other people. I've helped generate over 12,000 scholarships in excess of $150 million for black students. I'm a member of Omega Sci Fi fraternity. I ain't just down with a fraternity. That's a brotherhood. All of them are my boys. Okay?
- [25:44]
B
I cannot believe this got as much traction as it did. I cannot believe it did. Now, listen, there's a lot of things to pick apart with what Stephen A. Smith says. And this whole rant was giving. I have black friends. But him slipping up and saying. When I saw the headline that he mispronounced it, I thought he would have said something like, oh, Sega Sci Fi. And kept it moving. He said it and immediately corrected himself. He misspoke. I was. I was like, guys, why are we doing this? At this point, we just. We just ready to get after Stephen A. Smith for anything. And I understand, right, he's disappointing a lot of people. But this was not the one. This was not it. And this. And this is where you just give him fuel and motivation to. To. To try to victimize himself in all of this. The. The criticism and stuff he gets. This is not the thing to do.
- [26:33]
A
So not only was he not wrong about this, I think that Stephen A. Smith is the wrongest man in America. Yeah, I do think he's the wrongest man in America. He almost like. It's like a mutant, superhuman ability to read a situation wrong. You know, it's impressive. It's like. It's very. It's interesting how he can just like, read a political situation completely in the wrong way and just completely have a total gap in his anal. What?
- [27:07]
B
No, I just think it's interesting that you say that as if, like, he's. I guess I see it differently, right?
- [27:14]
A
Like.
- [27:16]
B
When people get after Scott Jennings and they talk about not just, like, his smirk and his smug look, it's like he can hear something. But no matter what, he's going to come down to the same conclusion because he's going to be on one side, right? I think he knows better, but he's got a job. That's what he's gonna do, right? He's gonna align himself with that. He's never gonna say anything different. I would almost put Stephen A. Smith in that same box. I think Stephen A. Smith, I don't know if he believes every single thing that he's saying. I think it is motivated by other things. To what exactly, I'm not sure, but he's not stupid.
- [27:53]
A
Let me tell you what I mean by that. But before I get to that, let me say what I was saying here. Number one, not only do I not think that he's wrong for the Osega Kai Kai thing, think he slipped up, like, once again here on this podcast, I probably shoot maybe like 62% from the field with words. You know, I'm on concerta today, so maybe I'll be clearer. But it happens. You get I'm mumbled mouth. I've been doing my. I've been doing my. My vocal exercises. You want to see? Look this.
- [28:29]
B
And what is that supposed to help you with?
- [28:31]
A
That loosens up your. That loosens up your. That gets you ready to go. So I've been walking around like, yeah, check this out.
- [28:40]
B
Okay.
- [28:41]
A
Makes. Makes you better articulate. Speak a little slower. Not only do I not think that he's wrong or there's anything to really talk about with this, I also think the other point that he was making is probably true. When we say that black people don't like Stephen A. Smith, I think that's probably a gross oversimplification of what black people is. When he goes places, I bet people are happy to see him 100%. I bet Stephen A. Smith goes to the Barbershop. They happy. I bet Stephen A. Smith goes, see, I just did it. He goes to the hbcu. They happy to see him. I bet black people are happy to see Stephen A. Smith. I think when we're saying black people, we're talking about black people with a specific politic that look at things in the way that we do. And even some of them, probably when they see him just what he's accomplished and all of that stuff, they probably still happy to see him. Let me pull you to the side and talk to you a little bit. But let me tell you what I feel like the difference between Stephen A. And Scott Jennings is. Scott Jennings is wrong, but he's wrong because I disagree with his interpretation and analysis of things. Scott Jennings has to launder the thoughts that he has in a more comprehensive way. So he does that. So he does that. Like he has to be on Television and win an argument and own the libs. You don't own the libs just by saying shit. You own the libs by demonstrating things. Even if some of the basis of what you're saying is untrue, you still have to posit it as true in order to build your sandcastle. Stephen A. Smith will just read a situation wrong. And what I mean by that is, this the Jasmine Crockett thing. He will say, how does going on television and calling out the president or insulting the president, what does that do for your constituents? He'll just say that he will completely leave out the fact that Trump started attacking her. He will completely leave out the fact that she is attacked all over the place by all of these different types of people. And then even the analysis of what does that do for your constituents, to me, is faulty and lacking. Because I could argue and would argue that anything that makes Jasmine Crockett or anyone like that or more powerful and relevant politician actually strengthens her constituency wherever she is. And in looking at her and in the way that he did, he completely left out one other thing, that she is one of the few Democrats that actually cuts through. None of that was in his analysis, the fact that what she said actually gets to people and that she actually is able to message to people in a way that wakes them up and gets them going. And other Democrats can't. Jeffries can't, Schumer can't, whatever. It was just such a basic almost respectability politics, stacked burger of nothing, that I wondered how you could come up with that. It seems as if he's getting talking points or not even talking points or information, like just before he gets on the show, and then he sits down and says the first thing that comes, you know, out of his. Out of his first thing that comes to his head. So to me, I look at all of this stuff like this. It's like. It's very difficult to kind of discern what his politics actually are, because when he's not doing that, he's both sides in an issue in a really impotent way, in a way that kind of doesn't make a lot of sense. It's one thing to look at an issue and then talk about it, but then give space to how somebody else might see it. There's a different thing in looking at something and no one being able to glean what you actually really even think about it. You're just saying shit. And so to me, when I. If I was to look at Scott or any other, the other people from the right that I. That I look at, they have to build a somewhat sturdy structure of ideas to be able to make people believe them because they're taken seriously. Like, Stephen A. Smith just goes out and says stuff, and the shit is just wrong. The shit just. The shit wouldn't make any sense. Even from, like, a bird's eye view, like a neutral view, he just leaves things out. He says things that aren't really accurate or are missing context to such a degree that you wonder how you could come up with that. And I really sometimes wonder if there is a glitch there. And not the way that he actually sees things, but the way that he's synthesizing the information. And you also have to remember something real quick, like he's a reporter. So Stephen A. Smith has never been an analyst. Just for people who know. Stephen A. Smith can sit down and talk sports. He can sit down and talk about. But, like, if you were ever to ask him to be. To look at game tendency and game flow and all of that stuff, man, I encourage people to go back and watch it. Watch Mark Cuban go sit down with Stephen A. Smith and Skip Bayless, the owner of the team, and fucking work them on what was actually happening in the basketball game. Like, fucking, go, go. Don't even. Don't take it from me. Go back and watch an analyst sit down and in front of Stephen A. Smith and Skip Bayless and fucking work them. Watch jj Watch some of these people sit down and work. Watch Tim Legler do it to Skip Bayless. So a lot of this stuff, if you take what he was doing in First Take Land, and then you bring it over to what he's doing in politics, you're kind of gonna get this because this is what it always really was.
- [35:20]
B
Hmm. Okay. You said a lot there. I'm gonna try to remember something she said. I think you're giving Scott too much stuff. I'll just leave that there. I don't think that he's always owning the Libs, as you said.
- [35:37]
A
That's not what I said. I didn't say he was always owning the Libs. I said that's his goal, to own the Libs.
- [35:42]
B
I don't think he's owning the Libs like he thinks he does. I think a lot of times, and I don't faithfully listen to Scott Jennings, but I watched a clip of something where he talked about his role on the show is like, WWE and something else. And like Adam Friedling, Adam Friedland. To me, that's like, he knows he's just there to rile people up, say the opposite of it in an entertaining way. He knows fully what he's there to do. With Stephen A. Smith, I agree with you in some of it. I also do think that he has a motivate. I don't know what it is. I don't know who it is, what, why, whatever, but it seems to me that he has an agenda when he says some of the things that he says and may. And I'll agree with you, maybe they aren't as well thought out or he excludes certain things or isn't aware that this person said this, but it feels like there's an agenda behind the things that he's saying. The other thing you said, Stephen A. Smith. I forgot. I knew I would. I could. I can't remember everything. Well, you. I was like.
- [36:51]
A
I was like, okay, wait a second, wait a second.
- [36:53]
B
Let me write it down. Let me write it down.
- [36:54]
A
It's too much. So I said too much. So. So the other part of it was me talking about him analyzing sports.
- [36:59]
B
Oh, oh, oh, oh. Yeah, yeah.
- [37:00]
A
See?
- [37:01]
B
Thank you. You're right. He's a reporter, and he might not be able to analyze the game or situations in the way that Mark Cuban has. I know we've talked about that before on this podcast because you've talked about that clip, but ever since he's done First Take, he's been more than a reporter. Ever since he's done it, he's been more than that. So, like he does. I guess I'm not correlating necessarily what you were trying to say about him being an analyst, but that is what he does. Now, I'm not saying you have to agree with his opinions or not, but he has been opining for decades. Yeah, that's what he started out as. But on First Take, that's just what he does on his radio show when people will call in, that's what he does. So he might be getting the politics of it all wrong, but. But what he's doing on Serious now with Politics is no different from what he was doing as a radio personality when he had his show on espn.
- [38:01]
A
Yeah. Okay, fair point. Let me kind of tell people what I'm trying to say. First of all, the thing about Scott is, like, I've gone back and forth with Scott, so I know that if you say something wrong or that if you. I'll be back on this week, by the way. If you say something wrong or if you have a fact wrong, part of what he does is knowing how to get you. So you got to go in there and be ready, right? Not just for him, but for the other people on the panel and stuff like that. Those are people who. Their lives are politics, right? A lot of what they're saying lies to me. Not true. Not lies to me. Lies. Not true. They are laundering Trump's reputation and all of that stuff. But even when those people launder that stuff, they launder it with some type of foundation, like they, they kind of have to, right? They'll still, they'll. I don't even want to get into all of that. Fuck that. Because I'm just going to go off on the tangent. But you guys know what I'm trying to say? What I'm trying to say is they invent things, but they try to thread them through a pinhole of logic or some old obscure law or any of that stuff. What I'm saying about Stephen A. Is this. I'm saying that what didn't bother people in the sports world is bothering people in the political world because the, the stakes are higher. So there's attention right now about what type of NBA coverage that people want, because a lot of the NBA people are stat heads or not. Not. They are. They're advanced stats people is why they fell in love with Jokic and all that type of stuff like that. They want to talk about true shooting percentage. We talked about the 50, 40, 90 thing. That's actually kind of an archaic metric, right? That's actually kind of a metric that's like, from like 10 years ago.
- [39:58]
B
So we weren't wrong in not knowing it.
- [40:01]
A
No, you were.
- [40:02]
B
Okay, keep going.
- [40:03]
A
No, no, no, no. I mean, like, no, you weren't. I mean, just amongst the people that I know y' all look crazy, but that's okay. But because there's. There's a new stat that's, that's, that's. That. That comes up every single time. Okay, True shooting percentage. Do you know what that is? Do you know what true shooting percentage is right now? So. So. But what I'm saying is those are the types of things that people are into. So what they really want is they want somebody to sit down. Some of them, not all of them. They want somebody to sit down and be like, okay, these are the things that happen better when this player is on the court. This is how this player affects the flow of the game. This is how the pace of the game picks up or slows down when they're, when they're on the court, this is their plus minus. This is what they do, swing, swing, ram screen, drive, kick. Like all of the stuff that really was pioneered by John Hollinger, Kurt Goldsberry, all of the other guys that people look at. When you listen to Zach Lowe or some of the people that, that work here talk about basketball, they talk about it in a very analytical way. Even from the contracts and stuff. This is what happens in the game. Baseball completely different, right? The baseball is completely different. War wins above replacement. All of these things, like people can tell you like, like what months players like tick down because of back to backs and how much sleep they're getting and all of that stuff like that. That's never been first take. That's not what they do. I know the criticism of that was that. So what I'm saying is that if you come on there and you go, hey man, this guy gotta do better. He just don't want it enough. You gotta be the man in crunch time, you just don't want it enough. People go, okay, what's not happening in crunch time? Like what? What's affecting this guy? Like, is he just going out there and forgetting how to play basketball, he just doesn't want it enough? Or is there something that the defense is changing? Are they running different defensive looks at him? Is the coverage different? What could he do, like, make me smarter about the game? You've never gotten that from first take. But also people don't demand it from first take because what they really. What they really demand from first take is the entertaining argument. When people get into politics, they're actually demanding an analysis that has some type of basis in knowledge. They're demanding a different type of analysis from him. And I don't know that he's capable of it. Not that he's not capable of it from an intellectual standpoint, but it's never been what he's done that has not been what he's done ever. Ever.
- [42:43]
B
I think that's what a lot of people are. One were wondering when he announced this show. It was like, this isn't. Just because you have an interest doesn't mean that you should have a show.
- [42:52]
A
And there's one more tension and then we can move on. But there's one more tension here as well, is that he's something politically that he is not in sports. He's a fence rider in sports. Stephen A. Smith comes out, says what he says and just lets it marinate. Says what he says, lets it go, throws it out there, goes for it. In politics, he doesn't. He attempts to both sides an argument he doesn't come across. He doesn't want to come across as too liberal. He certainly doesn't want to come across as too conservative. He has to remind people to. That he's only ever voted for one Republican in their entire life, and that's Chris Christie. He has to remind people of that all the time. He has to remind people that he voted for Kamala Harris. He has to remind people about all of these things. While he tends to look at every single political issue through a conservative lens, there's an inconsistency there that is confusing to people, and it also muddles what it is that he's doing. He's like. And so either he's wrong or he's pussy. And he just can't really stand on the shit that he wants to stand on either. He's not seen it. I could easily see a world where Jasmine Crockett actually bothers him because she actually bothers conservatives. She doesn't. They're not pretending like she actually bothers them. So he might look at her and be like, look the way she acting. And be actually bothered by her. But he can't say that, because if he says that, then he's one of them.
- [44:41]
B
You think? Okay.
- [44:43]
A
No, no. I'm asking you. No, no.
- [44:46]
B
That's it. We don't have to keep talking. We don't need to keep talking about Stephen A. Smith. I don't want to keep getting into it.
- [44:51]
A
Did you see this video of the Kappas?
- [44:52]
B
I did.
- [44:53]
A
I'm afraid that people might be. Be. Be being homophobic about the Kappas, man. They are.
- [44:59]
B
In their comments. At least the way this was posted.
- [45:02]
A
Donnie, play the video. And. Hey, yo. Okay, so they're up on each other there. They're like. So there's a. There's a guy in the front and he's doing his stuff. And in the back, they're kind of. They're hugging each other from the back.
- [45:45]
B
Okay. Why? This is not funny.
- [45:52]
A
There's nothing funny about it. This is not a diss. To me. The whole thing is funny. It's funny because when I saw the headline, it was like the cap under attack from hugging each other from the back. Like, what? So you know people. What are your thoughts?
- [46:13]
B
People. Okay, people. People who are seeing this from anything other than exactly what it is. A probate brings back such good memories from probating or even attending them on college either.
- [46:29]
A
It's always fun.
- [46:30]
B
Are not familiar with. I'm not even going to say you had to go to college. You're Just not familiar with black Greek life and probates because I've seen that lineup so many times from women and men. Right. And it's for a lot of reasons. One, it could just be tradition. That's just the way you line up. But two, what I thought when I watched this and I can't see a wide view was that they all needed to fit on the stage together. So I also thought that's why they were crowded up by that. But, like, usually when you're in line, you're tight, you're in formation, and, you know, like, you're supposed to be moving as one. And so that required the closeness as well. But people who are picking on it, they truly just don't understand what this whole culture is. I watched that, and I got excited. You got the H town. They sway, rocking back and forth. The excitement of, you know, whether you're on stage, you're in the audience, you see somebody, you're like. I thought they were online, but I wasn't sure. And then they pull off the mask or they look like they had a hood on. Pull it off. And then you get all the screams because it reveals that this is, you know, hey, you finally get to show everybody you're a part of all of this. Such a moment. And the fact that they're turning it into something else. Creating now you got me laughing. Creating something that it's not is wild. Stop attacking the captains. This is not what you're trying to make it, Remo.
- [48:00]
A
I saw this on Remo's bullshit. Remo, cool.
- [48:04]
B
He's the one who posted it. Yeah.
- [48:06]
A
He posts a lot of stuff like this.
- [48:07]
B
Okay.
- [48:07]
A
Post a lot of stuff like this. And it says the frat is facing backlash from hugging each other from the back in celebration of Founders Day.
- [48:14]
B
I mean, were they facing backlash, or was this just his head?
- [48:18]
A
Was this just kind of the thing? And due to. Do you feel like the Kappas have any type of reputation as far as this is concerned, than.
- [48:26]
B
Let's move on to the next topic. Not even about to do this with you right now. I'm not about to do this.
- [48:35]
A
It's a joke. Every noob I know, they. They. Some of the coolest niggas. They're some of the coolest. I'm starting a new company with my man kj. Shout out to kj. We're pitching the shows and movies and stuff like that. And it's funny because KJ is. He's a. He's an alpha from Dartmouth. Okay? Right. Shout out to my man, kj. Kj. Booze, right? We're starting a company together. He's an Alpha from Dartmouth. And so me and him were talking about this, and I say to him, I go, okay, you're an Alpha from Dartmouth. Like, how many crossed your line? Four.
- [49:14]
B
It was four, wasn't it?
- [49:15]
A
It was four people. It was four people. It's just funny to me. And then I have to grasp.
- [49:20]
B
You're so mean.
- [49:24]
A
I think, like, I. I have to ask KJ a little bit about, you know, cuz the Alphas have. They too. It's funny when they do the.
- [49:34]
B
Put your hands down. Put your hands down now. Put your hands down.
- [49:38]
A
Because they like. And the Alphas, they like. They. It's all about Egypt or some shit, right? I mean.
- [49:49]
B
Your obsession with Greek life. Wait, wait. How many people do you think cross.
- [49:53]
A
With me at Texas? What year is this?
- [49:57]
B
2005.
- [49:59]
A
2005 wasn't really a big time for nigga, shit like that. You at Texas, I'm gonna say you had seven girls with you.
- [50:11]
B
That's exactly right.
- [50:12]
A
Boom. Seventh heaven. Seventh Heaven. Seven Days in Heaven.
- [50:18]
B
We were called the Count of Style.
- [50:19]
A
The Countdown.
- [50:19]
B
The countdown.
- [50:20]
A
Oh, the countdown.
- [50:21]
B
Yeah, we lost one. That's why we called it.
- [50:24]
A
Oh, they got rid of one.
- [50:25]
B
We lost. She. She. She left.
- [50:28]
A
I seen a couple people. Because it was. It was Delta's Founders Day, like, recently. Right, Okay, I saw that because everybody.
- [50:36]
B
You didn't tell me Happy Founders Day.
- [50:38]
A
Well, I didn't see you say anything about it.
- [50:41]
B
I did post, actually.
- [50:42]
A
Okay, okay. But. But I saw a lot of people that. A Happy Founders Day and all of that stuff like that, so. But I saw a couple people that. The denouncing is still going on.
- [50:55]
B
It's so funny.
- [50:56]
A
What's going on with the denouncing? The denouncing is still happening. Like, I saw a couple people be like, I am no longer. AKA I'm no longer a Delta. I'm no longer. The denouncing is still. What's going on with the denouncing? Why is this.
- [51:09]
B
Okay, I don't even know if you wanted to. Just go. I don't need you to do all that. Just leave. You probably weren't paying or inactive anyway. Just go. Like, why.
- [51:19]
A
But why is it happening?
- [51:20]
B
I have no idea.
- [51:21]
A
If you guys don't know what this is, there's a phenomenon. So black frats.
- [51:24]
B
It's not a phenomenon.
- [51:27]
A
If I can be allowed some latitude.
- [51:29]
B
To discuss this, it's not a phenomenon.
- [51:31]
A
As an outsider, black frats are different than white frats. In that. If you talk to one of your friends that's in a white fraternity, they're going to say, I was that thing. So if you talk to your friends and one of these wife attorneys, they're going to say, hey, I was Kappa Psi or Kappa PI. We used to go collect niggas at 2am in the morning and kick the shit out of them for fun. Okay? And these wife attorneys, they're almost all racist. So, like, it is. I was that. Black people don't say that. They go, I am this. You're there. You're in it for life, you faux life. Okay? But people are denouncing. People are denouncing. They're saying, I'm no longer an aka I'm no longer a Delta. I'm no longer a Zeta. They're denouncing. It's a phenomenon. It's been going on for, like, for a couple years. Why is it happening?
- [52:21]
B
I don't know. I don't know. I don't even see it that much. I really don't. I've seen it like, twice. I really don't see it that much. But again, just go.
- [52:30]
A
Just go. Fuck you.
- [52:32]
B
Just go.
- [52:32]
A
You're not interested in why they might be doing it? Some of them. A lot of them.
- [52:35]
B
I just don't think it's. I don't understand what is so necessary about it. Like, they act like they were in a religion. That's not what it is. It's a community service organization. That's how I look at it. A social and community service organization with.
- [52:49]
A
Secret handshakes and secret history and secret sayings and secret rituals and secret, secret, secret. There's. It's a secret. It's a little secret society.
- [53:00]
B
Well, not. Well, not if you know all these things. It doesn't sound like that much of a secret.
- [53:05]
A
Ah, we used to be finding this shit out, me and Ryan. I'm gonna do a whole. I gotta bring Ryan on. Me and Ryan used to be finding this shit out. Like, Geno would come around with his brother.
- [53:12]
B
Is Geno the only one who pledged in Yalls crew? Okay.
- [53:15]
A
Nah, it was Geno pledged Kappa. Bryant became a Q. But Geno's brother Mike is also a Kappa. And then just everybody's everywhere. It's always the whole thing.
- [53:32]
B
Just humor me for a second.
- [53:33]
A
Go for it.
- [53:34]
B
If you had to pick one to pledge, which one would it be? And I know you've thought about this before. You tell me you have, and I know you have.
- [53:43]
A
I have not thought about it, Van. I have not thought about it.
- [53:46]
B
You've never been in your room by yourself and shit jimmied. You've never thrown up the hooks by yourself. You've never done, like, just a.
- [54:00]
A
You know, I would like to be the first. I say this to my homies in the gangs, too. And they do not like this, by the way. When I say this to my homies in the gangs, I was like, is there like a. I was asking Glasses this. I was asking Ad this. I was asked, if I start listening to my gang members. I know I've really been in LA for a long time, man. Shout out to all my members out there, man. Shout out to my essays, too, man. I never mentioned y', all, but shout out to y'.
- [54:22]
B
All.
- [54:23]
A
I asked them if there was like. Cause there's so many sets. What I asked Glasses was, could I be down with all the sets? Could I, like, play? Well, I think that this is kind of what we're talking about when we're talking about some of the ways that we separate ourselves as black people. How we pull apart and we don't. We're not together, and it's because we find ways to, like, separate ourselves apart. What would really be dope is if I could bang both neighborhood, you know what I'm saying? And then also go bang like gangster, you know what I'm saying? If I could really bang some Long beach shit and then also bang some. Watch it. If I could be accepted in both places as a member of both said street organizations. And I also think that the same type of. Of situation will be great. If I could be like, ah, but also like. Ah, but also like, okay, okay.
- [55:20]
B
Oh.
- [55:20]
A
You know what I'm saying? But if I could. If I could also be like. If I could do. If I could. If I could do this and then all of a sudden, switch right into.
- [55:30]
B
Oh, my gosh. Donnie. Donnie. What would you pledge? Donnie, what would you pledge?
- [55:36]
C
Oh, I don't think I've actually put real.
- [55:38]
B
Thoughts don't lie.
- [55:40]
A
That's the fuck I'm talking about, Donnie. That's what the fuck I'm talking about, Donnie.
- [55:44]
B
You would be.
- [55:44]
A
Donnie didn't give.
- [55:46]
B
You would be an Alpha man, Van. You van. You'd probably be a Sigma.
- [55:51]
A
Nah, I'm with that. I know that was a diss. No, see, and so, so and so. See, here's the thing. See, here's the thing. Here's the thing. Shout out to all the Sigmas. I know that that was a dis. So what? But see what Rachel did, I've done that before. Because y' all know that.
- [56:06]
B
It's a dis. Don't have the Sigmas or Zetas coming after me. That was as a midfield, y'.
- [56:12]
A
All. That's a D9. That's a Dis. Y' all know that. She knows it's a diss. Cause. Cause we're not even gonna get into the. The bad parts of this. She knows it's a diss, Donnie. She got it all. It's a diss. Everybody here that went to college, they noticed a diss.
- [56:29]
B
That's how you see it.
- [56:30]
A
You just died.
- [56:31]
B
I dated a Sigma. I dated a Sigma.
- [56:34]
A
When he played ball, he played football. Yeah. You ain't just date a regular Sigma.
- [56:38]
B
But he was a Sigma, so.
- [56:39]
A
Yeah.
- [56:39]
B
You didn't just date us sitting here. I'm not. So don't try to. Don't. Just because you took it that way, don't try to.
- [56:44]
A
I know what it means to me.
- [56:46]
B
Donnie didn't laugh. Donnie took it seriously.
- [56:49]
A
To. To. To me, when I look at the brotherhood, sisterhood thing, the only real ones is really the Sigmas, because they have the Zetas because they. That. To me, I think that shit is the most beautiful shit. You know what I'm saying? That's what I think. But, you know, it is what it is, man. This is. I will say this, though, before you move on. All of these frats are. And sororities are very important to black cultural history, and you should know about them. They're very important organizations to like the history of black culture. I was doing research on Johnnie Cochran a couple of days ago, looking up Johnny Cochrane and the Cochran firm and where the Cochran firm stands. And Johnny Cochran started the Cochran firm, 1968, and becomes this gigantic. And Johnny Cochran Kappa. I didn't know that from Shreveport. Johnny Cochran. So all is. It's big, important stuff. But shout out to the Sigmas and you guys think about it. You guys think about it overall. If I could just join them all, all of them at the same time would be great. Oh, let's take a break. And on the other side of this, talk about something. I'm wondering what you think about this. There's a new hero in black American culture.
- [58:10]
B
I just feel like you've been using these extreme words on the podcast.
- [58:14]
A
What he is. People are acting weird about it. I want to know why. All right, Donnie. On the other side of his break, Paul Birdsong.
- [58:22]
C
We spoke about him two weeks ago. I believe he labels himself the Black Panther Party's national chairman. He spoke recently to a few articles specifically about his feelings that ICE should be abolished and that the current administration should be held accountable for its actions. Here's a quote from Mr. Bursong. He said, you got people that are part of a cabal that are self serving and they prey on the common folks in the United States. What are your thoughts on this new face of the Black Panther Party?
- [58:52]
B
Yeah, face of the Black Panther Party. Van, you called him a hero, A rising hero.
- [58:58]
A
Rising hero.
- [59:01]
B
What?
- [59:01]
A
Why?
- [59:02]
B
And this isn't a knock. I mean, the last podcast I was saying, love what they were standing up for, what they're doing, the Black Panther Party. I feel like I haven't. And maybe this is what you mean by hero. And definitely faced with what Donnie's saying, I feel like I have not heard that much about the Black Panther Party until I started seeing videos in Philadelphia and videos of him and what he's doing and they're going to Baltimore and all of this. So I think that that's a positive thing because it also highlights what the Black Panther does within the community, the ways it steps in and uplifts and gives back to the community. But you're calling him a hero. What do you mean by that?
- [59:44]
A
Well, I think that the Black Panthers are heroes. I think that the ideology, the activism and the action of the Black Panthers is heroic. I think there's been some response to Paul Birdsong, his ascension, who he is. And I think it's put this, I think it's not shocking people, but surprising people, some of the stances that they might take and some of the things that they espouse. Because I don't think people know that much about the Black Panthers, as I've been hearing from people, and I've posted them a couple of times. And he is going viral with almost every video that he posts. And some of the things that are happening, people start to have questions, they start to ask questions, they start to go, yo, is this some kind of psyop? Is this, is he a fed? I've had a bunch of people that have hit me up after I posted that video of them and go, yo, is this a Scott Fed? Scott Fed? Like, where'd this guy come from? Where'd this guy come from? And you've seen him sort of react to some of these things in his videos, right? You've seen him talk about, you know, where he's been, how he's popped up. You look at it in terms of you, you look at what he's posting in terms of what they're doing. But now people also want to ask, like, where'd you come from? Like, where'd you come from? There's a couple reasons why that is. One reason is because part of our mechanism, and I don't want to overstate this, but part of our mechanism is to really shred people that act like they're doing something on behalf of black people or the people, because there's just not a belief that that thing is genuine or powerful or possible. We do this all the time. We, we do it because it is a defense mechanism. We've talked about this before, right? Like, who's going to hurt you next? Also the reason why we challenge and shred these leaders and these people and do that is because cointelpro was extremely effective. It was extremely effective. It took apart movements that weren't just destabilizing to American racial politics. Movements that were destabilizing to American socio political politics. The Black Panthers were socialists. Those guys were Maoists. And the way that they looked at the world was particularly scary to people like J. Edgar Hoover. When you talk about like, you know, not just Huey and Bobby, but Fred and all of the women that were really the backbone of those movements, the shit that really pissed those guys off or pissed off the American power system was it wasn't just that you don't get to kill black people or a fight for black citizenship from, you know, a civil rights lens or perspective. It was the fact that they were introducing politics that were scary. Politics of collectivism, politics that, you know, if those types of ideas sift into black community writ large, that they change the Jordan, Oprah, Jay Z dynamic of black capitalism. The thing that keeps you at somebody else's throat, the thing that really erodes solidarity, which is just the vicious American capitalist competition that has been sewn, it sewed into all of us. Right. They weren't really like that. Like Birdsong just put up a video and it's a guy in there and they've gotten the, the, the video says White Panthers. Talking about White Panthers. Yeah, it's talking about like power to the people. And when he was talking about the reason why the Black Panthers are out there fighting against ice, he was like, the people. This is an internationalist movement. This is a movement about the working people, the proletariat in struggle with capitalist political power. That part of who the Panthers are has really been erased. It's been erased because anything that is by black people, we think sometimes has to be black focused and black specific. A lot of times we don't think about black people having the capacity to advocate for all people. And even when black people try to do that, a lot of black people will say, why are you advocating for all people when we have such specific problems? I have been someone who has done that because sometimes it seems like what's facing us is so paramount and so right in front of our face. And so the reality is, if this gentleman or the Black Panther Party of Philadelphia, if they come back, if they come out and their tradition is in line with. With the tradition. Tradition of the original Black Panther Party, it's going to feel foreign to people. It's going to feel foreign. It's going to feel foreign to, like, black people hate socialism as much as white people do. Like, as much as American capitalists do. Like, some of these things were specifically dangerous because of what they threatened. Like, you know, the arming yourselves and the. The. The need to be resistant in a certain way. Like the way he was talking to that cop. They call cops pigs. They look at cops as people who don't really have much utility in the community other than to protect capital and protect white people from black people and subdue black people. They just don't believe in it writ large. I'm not speaking for everyone, but I'm talking about the way that those things were rolled out. So if, in fact, the more genuine this gentleman or anybody that really is connected with that movement in its original framing, the more genuine they are, the more people are going to be like, what is this? Because I think that with King and with X, with the Panthers, with a lot of the people that were around, we've romanticized who they were to a degree and really forgot what they actually were. Like, King was a communist. King was a democratic socialist. Like. Like, we don't really discuss a lot of that stuff, because when those movements died, the next movement was fuck bitches, get money. And when I say that, I don't mean it to be what I'm. What I mean is America is, fuck bitches, get. Get money. That's what America is. America is attain as much as you can. Right? Put the woman in her place as a thing and go out there and get as much bread as you can. And whoever gets the most gets to make the rules. And that is not the vision of the world that a lot of these people had. So if, you know, if they are on that, a lot of people be gonna be like, what y' all talking about? Yeah, because that vision lost and the government won that. The government killed that and sent us back to the banks.
- [67:15]
B
I have nothing to say to that. I actually. No, I don't actually. I mean, yeah, I have nothing to say to that. I actually hope. What I will say is I do hope. I hope to see more of it. I hope to see more of him. And I think people should feel uncomfortable because I think we have gotten too comfortable with. To your point, the fuck bitches get money mentality.
- [67:46]
A
Just so people know, you know, the Black Panthers have a whole 10 point program that was their political North Star. Self determination for black communities. Full employment for all people and into capitalist exploitation of black communities. Decent housing fit for human being, Fit for human beings. Relevant education that teaches the real history, real history and political literacy that is very important. Free health care, preventative and community based. And into police brutality and the murder of black people. And into the prison industrial system as a tool of racial control. Fair trials for black defendants judged by their peers. Land, bread, housing, education, clothing, justice, peace, armed self defense, community control of institutions. We could have a whole, a whole talk about the gender dynamics that exist inside the Black Panther Party. Okay. That's a real thing. And if you talk to any of the women that were around them, which I've talked to a couple of them, they'll tell you that every movement, every organized movement struggles with parody for women's voices and who they were inside of that stuff. But yeah, I mean a lot of this stuff, it's based in Marxism and Leninism, Maoism, anti imperialism as it relates to the United States of America. So there's stuff. And even Fred Hampton was a little bit different than some of the guys that were on the West Coast. Right? It was a little. It wasn't all.
- [69:15]
B
That's what I was going to ask you with Black Lives Matter, there was the global organization and then there were different parties within it. Is that how Black Panther is too? So then you do have different. You like in different regions. They might exercise. I guess the 10 point was a 10, 10 point. Or the programs or values in a different way or maybe even develop their own because I'm not familiar with that.
- [69:40]
A
Well, you know, even within these organizations that we're talking about, like even within sncc, whatever organization it was, there were big time differences in the way people thought things should be done. There were people who are a little bit more radical, There are people who are a little bit more centrist. There are people who were like, Fuck Dr. King. And then there were people like, nah, we need Dr. King and his ability to talk to mainstream America, all of that. So The Panthers had different chapters based in cities. And so cities have unique problems. And while they're overarching things that happen sometimes, what you would see in groups like this, in any group, is a different set of ethics and circumstances arise out of the specific needs of a community. But there was a collective ism that that existed amongst these groups that is pretty uniform. So it. When you saw the Black Panthers and their fight against the Vietnam War and them opposing the Vietnam War, they opposed the Vietnam War because the Vietnam War was harvesting black life from America to go fight overseas. But they also oppose the Vietnam War because they oppose American imperialism. So to see Black Panthers fighting ice is what they do if you know who they are. And so as far as Birdsong himself, I can't speak to his background or any of that stuff like that, but my first response was, hallelujah, let's get some of this shit back going and get some of this education. And if he is assailed or if there's a movement to get back to this and the government goes full blast on them, and it'll be both governments, right? It'll be liberal governments, it'll be conservative governments, no matter who's in it. Because, you know, this kind of shit, they definitely don't want. Then it would be. It would behoove us to be educated on what the objectives are. I would love to have them for an interview.
- [71:40]
B
Yeah, I would, too. I would, too.
- [71:44]
A
All right. I mean, you know, I guess we gotta talk about. We gotta go. Gotta talk about the Democrats. We gotta talk about them a little bit. Who you want to talk about? You want to talk about Ro Khanna? Our friend Ro Khanna? Or do you want to talk about Gavin Newsom? Who you want to talk about?
- [71:58]
B
First, let's talk about Ro. Ro and his 152 friends.
- [72:04]
A
Okay. Okay. Well, all right.
- [72:06]
B
Did you.
- [72:08]
A
Okay. All right, now. All right, now, Donnie.
- [72:12]
C
All right. Ro and his friends passed the State Department's annual funding bill last week, and AIPAC released the following thank you statement to Congress. They said, aipac applauds the House of Representatives for passing critical pro Israel provisions, including $3.3 billion in security assistance to Israel. Now, reporter Jasper Nathaniel, he had the following exchange with Ro Khanna online after this thank you statement. He said, ro, can you explain why you are among the lawmakers? AIPAC is publicly applauding for voting to send 3.3 billion in security assistance to Israel and to defund UNRWA. Roe said, the Republicans snuck these into a bill about our funding for the UN State Department and foreign aid. It was a shameful tactic. I have always voted for funding for the State Department, UN and USAID. In my 10 years in Congress, I have already voted no on military sales to Israel, voted for funding unrwa, voting for funding the ICC and co sponsored Rashida Tlaib's genocide resolutions. AIPAC is currently spending against me in the District because of my record on Gaza. Thoughts to this back and forth and AIPAC in general.
- [73:24]
B
Did you call roe?
- [73:25]
A
I did not call Roe. I should have. I should have called Roe. I did not call Roe.
- [73:33]
B
Am I missing something? Because I do not understand how they voted for this or I shouldn't say they right, because there are several Democrats who would do this and they did. But a Ro Khanna, I'm not understanding why he would vote for this when he has consistently voted against this. And yes, there were other things that were included in this, but a lot of those other things are still so anti what Arokana has stood for or. Well, the other people said no. I was going to say the squad, but they all voted no against this. I'm not understanding why you would vote for something that had federal abortion restrictions, that gave money both offensive and defensive weapons to aid Israel. I'm not understanding why you would even push something like this forward when you still have, we still have our health care issues within this country. I'm just not understanding how I'm like, am I missing something? How did he not see this? Which is his response, right? He said he genuinely did not. How does this happen?
- [74:45]
A
I don't know.
- [74:47]
B
Okay, so I'm not missing anything because that's really.
- [74:49]
A
No, no, no, no, no. I mean look, the, the people that voted no on this, it's an interesting group of people. You know, Lauren Berber, Lauren Boebert voted no on this. It's so most of these people are Democrats. But yeah, you have some no votes in there that are. Are really interesting. They are really interesting. Now listen, I'll say this. Thomas Massey voting no People have probably have different reasons why they will vote no on something and yes on something. You know, these bills are so stuffed with shit that the goal is to of bills like this, this, you know, appropriations bill, the goal is to put the lawmaker intention is to give them things that they both would vote for and wouldn't vote for and make them vote for the whole thing. So then the question would be because like you want to say you put something in the bill. Let's say that they do this same bill and then they put like free breakfast in it, Right? And then what they can politically say is that the Democrats voted against free breakfast for kids. And then what the Democratic politician or Republican politician, whomever, has to do is to come out and say, I didn't vote for free breakfast. I didn't give a no vote for free breakfast. And kids gave a no vote on sending weapons to Israel or dismantling unwra. That's what I was voting for. But when you put the free breakfast in there, you make them defend that. So a lot of times these big, huge bills aren't really politically what they are spun as. However, that's just me being as Democratic about it as I could be. That's me being as, you know, nice to them as I could possibly be. However, this is a vote that Ro Khanna shouldn't have made. This is a vote that Ro Khanna owed better on. And the excuse that they were able to slip something in is not only a poor excuse, it is worse.
- [77:09]
B
Yeah, I was gonna ask you which one was worse.
- [77:12]
A
It is worse if he is so inept and asleep at the wheel as a politician that he voted for something and he didn't know what was in it. That's what the fuck we talking about. If he voted for something and he didn't know what was in it. That to me is not just, I have a bad take or I've got eat crow on this, it's political malpractice if he voted for something and he didn't really know what was in it. So that response is like, just fucking out of here.
- [77:48]
B
Well, and I would want to know what he was voting for. Yeah, I was going to ask you which one was worse, because to me, you saying you didn't know, it's like, ugh, how many times does that happen? But there were so many things that are anti. I feel like he stands for that. I'm like, what were you voting for? That's what I would want to know. And I kept trying. Obviously, Jasmine Crockett's getting a lot of heat as she's coming up on her race against James Talarico. So everything that she's done is even more scrutinized than.
- [78:20]
A
She voted for this, too.
- [78:21]
B
And she voted for it. And I think you have to stop saying, well, they don't take AIPAC money. That's not going to cut it anymore. Because this isn't the first time that she's voted to send money to Israel. And I think that you can't just stand on the. Well, I don't take money from them. If your votes are going to do things that are going to send money to somebody who's violating someone's human rights.
- [78:50]
A
Right. So essentially, if you know, aipac, AIPAC is. And by the way, what AIPAC did in celebrating this was political as well.
- [79:03]
B
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [79:04]
A
Because they want to do two things. One, they want to destigmatize this vote and they want to destigmatize military support for Israel. Because at least amongst some Americans right now there is a stigma surrounding. Might be more pronounced in places that we frequent. But at least right now, there's a question around how much military assistance we should be giving Israel that wasn't had, you know, in as robust a way as it was had before. You know, we're having the conversation now. So them praising people like Ro Khanna is then basically saying, look, your man Roe voted for it. And it's also trying to hit him a little bit because they know what his constituency is made up of. It's made up of people who are going to be disappointed by this vote. Now, to have Roe or Jasmine, these things get very complicated, right? They get very, very complicated. The bill itself is financial services and general government, national security, Department of State and related programs, Appropriations Act 2026, federal budget allocations across multiple government functions, financial services, government operations, national security and State Department programs. There could have been things in this bill that they were voting for. Do we have any response from Jasmine Crockett right now, guys, about. I'm asking, Donnie, you got somebody look it up. Do we have any response for Jasmine Crop from Jasmine Crockett on what they were actually voting for? Ro Khanna's response was seemingly to say, I didn't know that some of this stuff was inside the bill. We'll let him live with that and see if that in any way satisfies people. Has there been a response from Jasmine Crockett as to why she voted for this? Has she even been asked at this point?
- [81:14]
C
It doesn't look like I'm looking it up now, but I'm not seeing anything.
- [81:17]
B
I haven't seen it. But Ro Khanna was asked on social media. It's hard for me to believe that somebody didn't pose that same question on social media to Jasmine.
- [81:26]
A
Right. Is this disappointing to you?
- [81:30]
B
Yeah. I mean, to her.
- [81:32]
A
We talked about him, to her, to any Democrat.
- [81:34]
B
Right. To me, I just don't understand how you can be a party. And you're right, there are other things. I saw the state funding and all that. I'M sure, I'm not disagreeing with Roe, that there was something in this bill that he was voting for. But to me, it's not like there was one thing like free breakfast in your example that was put in there. There were so many things that to me are anti whole. What I believe Democrats stand for, body bodily autonomy is one thing. So why would you be backing something that has restrictions on federal abortion funding? I'm not understanding why we are giving money and then restricting money that we're giving to the United nations and then giving more money to Israel for the purpose of offense and defensive weapons. I'm not understanding that. To me, there's just so many other things that I'm like, I need. So I'm disappointed on two things, to answer your question. One, that they would pass a vote. That's four things that are, that is four things that you are directly supposed to be against. And two, that we don't have an explanation.
- [82:40]
A
So I will say that in this bill there are things that the Democrats probably wanted, like for example, they put in here that IRS funds may not be used to target people for exercising First Amendment rights or, or based upon ideological beliefs. So they put into the bill, which I'm sure is something that the left wanted, right? They, they were able to get into the bill that the IRS cannot come out and just like hit people or audit people based upon this stuff that's supposed to be doing that anyway. But they put it in plain language. There's reporting accountability requirements on IRS technology spending and taxpayer services on the left right now. The thing that they're going to push the Trump administration for is transparency. Transparency, transparency, accountability, accountability. They also put in restrictions on certain administrative actions, using treasury funds for redesigning currency plates without congressional approval. All of that type of stuff is stuff like even that economically. What you don't want to do is hand over complete control of the treasury to Donald Trump because right now it seems as if he's going to fire Jerome Powell. He's investigating Jerome Powell because Jerome Powell would not maneuver or manipulate, should I say, the interest rates like Donald Trump wanted him to. Seems like he's investigating him, wants to firepower, put people in there, right? And then you don't want a situation where there's no separation between the monetary policy of the United States and the government of the United States. Now, I'll say this. There are people that want that to be more like some of the leftists that I know would want that to be that way. They want there to be the United states to set the monetary policy, but they want them to set it in socialist way. They want to set it in that they don't want the Fed to be as independent or they haven't in the past wanted the Fed to be as independent as they want it to be now because they thought that having an independent Fed was going to result in just runaway capitalism. And what they kind of wanted was state control of that type of thing more in a way that China or somebody else might have. Right. And then you can go around the world and do things like Belt and Road and all that different shit, but like, it it. So there seems to be some things in here that they would have wanted and maybe there was a trade off on funding some stuff having to do with Israel that they took honestly. And the question to me for Roe or for Congresswoman Crockett would be like, what did you like so much that you did that?
- [85:19]
B
Exactly.
- [85:20]
A
Well, I mean, look, to, to be honest with you, we're looking forward to having Roland Martin on our show in a couple of weeks. But to be honest with you, like, think about what Roland Martin said when he was talking about Jackson Crockett. I think this is a, a fair question to ask, right? If you're a Congresswoman Crockett. I do. First of all, you guys know I don't like this vote, so I'm in no way laundering this. But I think there's a question you could ask that if you're her and you're making a political calculus here or you're trying to deliver for your constituency. That's here. The question is, do they care more about continuing to fund Israel in an offensive defensive capacity or the gutting of unwra, defunding UNRWA anymore, Or do they care more about establishing transparency in certain different aspects of the US Government and protecting the government here or the people here from a Trump administration that seems to be run amok. If you ask her, I bet she'll say most of the people that I fuck with in Texas, like Roland Martin said, don't give a fuck about that. And what they care about is that I protect them from the IRS targeting them.
- [86:34]
B
Well, yeah, I mean, I've said on the podcast that Israel I do not think is an issue for Texas voters. I don't think that that's going to be where they draw the line or where they say, I can't vote for this candidate or the next candidate. I understand that on this podcast, keeping the same energy, I have to be critical of anybody who voted at least for me, and I know you feel this way, too, about anybody who's voting to send money to Israel because it's not. It's just what it stands for. Not only in this bill, particularly, you're not just voting to send money, you're also taking money away from an organization that is helping the Palestinian people. It's both in this bill and for me, when we're, I guess the question comes back to, and this is what I would ask Jasmine Crockett, you already said the question would be what was so important that you thought this was better than this when it comes to giving money to Israel. But my question, too is as a Democrat, as the Democrats in their party, what is it that you stand for? Right. And that's what I keep going to. And I kind of said this a little bit before. You say you stand for this when it comes to women and them having freedom over their body. You say that you're about human rights and supporting that. To me, this is such in stark contrast to that that I'm wondering, I'm so bad with my words right now. Hold on. I'm wondering as an identity, as a party, what is it that you hang your hat on? And I keep going back to this as well. We started off this year knowing that the American people had their healthcare premiums skyrocket. We, we started out this year with an affordability crisis. What are the main issues for the Democrats that we're putting forward and that we're fighting for, and what is on the backseat? Because if you're voting to spend money in this way, and I know that you called out some other things about transparency, and I'm not saying that those things aren't important, but what are the most important issues for the Democratic Party, and when will your voting align with that? That, to me, seems to be the issue here. And those are the questions that I would ask Jasmine Crockett, and that's what I would want to know if I was in Texas voting for her. What are the most important issues for you?
- [89:04]
A
Okay, so I want to, I want to hit on one thing real quick, is that this bill has a specific ban for the US Funding of unwra. I want to make sure that we talk about that specifically. Not we don't have to go deep into it, but like it's not cutting funding or anything like that. This is a ban on it. This is, it's legally.
- [89:25]
B
I said restriction. It's banned. Yes, yes.
- [89:27]
A
Yeah, it's ban on it legally. Flatly forbids funding. And you have to pass another law to undo this. Now if you guys don't know, UNRWA was the United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestinian refugees. Now it was started 1949 after the 1948 Arab Israeli War. Hundreds of thousands of Palestinians were displaced or became refugees during the Nakba where these people were ethnically cleansed from their home. This was established to provide aid, food, shelter, medical care and schooling until a political solution was reached. That obviously never happened. Okay, that is supposed to be temporary, but that never happened because the persecution of the Palestinians never stopped. It never stopped. They have been volleyballed around and used as a political bargaining chip by the west to continue to consolidate power in the Middle East. Everything is about keeping, keeping Israel safe. Which keeping Israel safe means. And I want everybody in Israel to be safe. Let me sure I know this, but everyone knows this, but Israel as part and parcel to that using the constant threat of terrorism that exists is why you have a nuclear powered Israel. It's why you have Iron Dome technology. It's why we continuously send money, weapons, stuff over there is because of a group of people that are marauding existential threats to the state of Israel so that we have to continue to fund them over and over and over again. Even if in fact those people, the Palestinian people, despite all the other proxies that exist in the region, are the people that are continuously slaughtered over the course of decades. That doesn't matter that the power difference is so great and they are routinely slaughtered over and over and over again. It's we have to make sure that we keep our ally in the region safe and powerful no matter whose lands getting stolen and all of that stuff. And obviously the disgusting terrorist attack of October 7th to a lot of people complicated that issue because that is a reason when you look at that, you go, Israel must be unsafe. They are unsafe. Look what happened to them. Look what has happened to them in the second Intifada. Look what's happened to them all over. Unravel though was like for schools and for to feed people and all that stuff. It was humanitarian aid. And early on into the genocide in Gaza there was the intellectual belief and positioning that UNRWA was full of terrorist organizations that are full of terrorists, that in UNRWA schools they were being taught terrible anti American, anti Israel stuff so that in order to get rid of that, you have to get rid of unra. And so that belief seems to have won here in America. Now we cannot fund it. Just Palestinian aid. They're terrorists. Everyone is a terrorist. Everyone is a terrorist. You walk down the street, somebody stops you, pick you up. Terrorists, you send you wherever they want. They don't have to give you a trial. They have to do anything. They take you to Israeli prison, you're terrorists. Pick you up off the street. Everything. Terrorists, terrorist, terrorist, terrorists. We can't have any nuanced conversations about any of this stuff. Everybody is terrorists. So we have to make sure we do exactly what the Israeli government wants us to do in this situation. You know, Crockett and Rokhan and Crockett voted for that. They voted for shortchange in unrwa. The question is, what else did they vote for? I think it's fair to be able to give them an opportunity to answer those questions. I think that that's fair. I think Roe answered the question terribly, putridly. Makes me look at him differently. It's a fact. I think the thing with Jasmine Crockett is that this is not going to matter, because what we're really talking about is how much this matters to people, Period. Period. Like, how much it actually matters. Not whether or not it matters when you see it on TikTok or whether or not it matters when you see it on Instagram, if it actually matters. Because once again, this issue, to me, is not a geopolitical issue that acts as a distraction to domestic issues. That's not the way I look at it. I look at it as a political litmus test for the type of politicians that I would like to support, for the type of Democrat that I would like to support. I don't look at it as something that. I'm not saying that what happens is in Gaza is more important to me than what happens in Baton Rouge. I'm not saying that. I'm not saying that at all. What I'm saying is that if you are the same cut of left Democrats, centrist corporate Democrat that has existed and allowed things like this to happen for a long time, I'm not gonna. I'm not doing that. And it really don't matter who it is. And like. And so. And so I don't want to do that anymore. If that's okay with everyone. If it's okay with everyone. I'm just being for real. I don't want to do that anymore. If that's okay. I don't want to have the same. Like, I don't want to do that anymore. What I want now is sort of to begin the project of realigning the American political dialogue to one that is a little bit more palatable to the way I See the world. And that's what I'm going to do. So, you know, I think it's fair to ask these questions. The answer that you get from Ro Khanna might be, I didn't know it was in the bill. It's a stupid fucking answer. And the answer that you might get from Jasmine Crockett might be, listen, we put real guardrails on what the Trump administration can use the IRS to do. And that to me is worth either making it illegal to send money or aid to UNRWA or sending Israel more money for weapons. And then what if she gives you that answer? Then the question is, what do you think about that? That's the question. That's the question in political coalition building on the left right now. What do you think about that answer? If she gives you that answer, what can you say?
- [95:55]
B
Are you genuinely asking me?
- [95:57]
A
Yeah, I'm asking you. If that was her answer, what would you say?
- [95:59]
B
I mean, I go back to what I said just a second ago. Okay, that's your answer. I need to understand, as somebody who is figuring out who they're supporting and why, what are the main issues for you? Like, what's a priority for you? Because I would have thought that taking money away from people who are suffering a humanitarian crisis would have been a priority to you. So now I need to understand, well, what's a priority for you at this point? That'd be my. That would be it. And that's the best way I can say it without her actually giving that as her reasoning for doing it.
- [96:34]
A
Yeah. We need to hear from her. Need to hear from her. I think that's fair. More Democrats. Yeah.
- [96:38]
C
Gavin Newsom had Ben Shapiro on an episode of his podcast, this is Gavin Newsom. And the conversation turned to the word genocide when it's being used when talking about the war in Gaza.
- [96:53]
A
Democrats have now been dragged into this conversation. Some drag, some. Some run with, you know, flags waving into the conversation. This notion of genocide. Yes. Yeah. I mean, look, Israel did not commit a genocide in Gaza. There is no standard by which Israel committed a genocide in Gaza. Just on a factual level. Just a legal and factual level. Yes. Yeah. What is your opinion of this? My opinion is I understand the tendency for people to make that. To assert that. Why? On the basis of the images and the proportionality. Genocide. No, no. And by the way, I agree with you and international and I'm not. Doesn't mean that if you kill my child and I then kill seven criminals, I'm not that I've been disproportionate I'm not disagreeing with you, but I think the. But I understand that tendency on the basis of trying to reconcile the proportionate nature of how the war was ultimately conducted. What.
- [97:57]
B
You know what.
- [98:00]
A
So you know, you know, in college football, you know, you make your own schedule.
- [98:09]
B
You know, what do you mean?
- [98:10]
A
You have, you have the. Your people inside of your, your. You have people inside of your conferences. You have to play, right? Like you're playing an SEC schedule. They move it up to a nine game schedule. Let's take it the way it used to be. It used to be that there was an SEC east and SEC west and you had to play Alabama. If you're lsu, you had to play Ole Miss, you had to play Mississippi State, you had to play Arkansas, okay? There were teams you had to play. Texas A and M teams in the S.C. west, you had to play. But then beyond that, you got to make your schedule. So sometimes you schedule a big game. You schedule Texas 2019, put on that ass. Baptist church at Texas, right? You schedule, you schedule that game, right. You schedule a ucla, which we went to. Got it. Put on that ass, right? You schedule these teams like out of conference. You schedule them for, like, for whatever reasons. And some of what you do in your success is in the scheduling, man. You schedule UCLA and you lose to them, you know what your people are gonna say to you? They're gonna be like, why did you put them on the motherfucking stuff schedule? Like, why would you schedule the team that could come in when you have such a tough schedule already? If you're not prepared to play, if you're not prepared to win, if you're not prepared to execute against a team that's outside of your conference people, you have to play, play. Why do you schedule them? And what I'm asking Gavin Newsome is why the. Did you put Ben Shapiro on your schedule? If you are going to look as feckless, stupid, small and ignorant on a question you know he's going to ask you, why are you scheduling him? What is the purpose of Gavin Newsom, who came on our podcast.
- [99:57]
B
Yeah.
- [99:57]
A
And called out Joe Rogan. I want to fight against Joe Rogan. Called out all of these. I want to fight all of these people. I want to. He don't want to fight Joe Rogan. He want to go on Joe Rogan because the opportunity to be on Joe Rogan is a big deal for him. He don't want to have no fights, not on anything that matters. He wants to play on the Internet and Then he wants to go do stuff like this, which is sit in front of Ben Shapiro and not have a point of view. Sit in front of Ben Shapiro and not even have anything to say. How in the fuck could you answer that question in a way that pisses off everyone? If you don't think it is, stand on it, say, I do not think it is, and offer to me an intelligent, forceful, and cogent explanation as to why you think Israel needs to be reined in. What you think the far right in Israel, the capture of Netanyahu has meant for people where you feel like Israel has misstepped but say, hey, I don't think it's a genocide. You can do that, but not look like you just got your nut cuts by a dweeb who gets stuffed in his fucking locker by anyone that has any balls. He's getting Ben Shapiro's getting stuffed in his locker right now by people on his own side. So, like, for, like, for me, like, I'm looking at this and I'm like, what the fuck are you doing? Like, what is the point of this? I will define genocide for people later so you guys can hear it and decide whether or not you think what has happened over there in the last couple of years has been a genocide. You can make that decision for yourself. I'm not going to do anything to you if you think it is or if you think it isn't, if you think it needs to stop. I'm with you. But, like, what I'm telling you right now is, like, what is the purpose of him continuously going on there and dick docking with Ben Shapiro and fucking Steve Bannon and whomever else? I don't understand what the project is right now.
- [101:58]
B
So I'm with you. And when Gavin Newsom came on our podcast, we asked him hard questions about the Charlie Kirk interview, the who, what, when, where, why, all of it. And I was not satisfied with Gavin Newsom's answer that he gave us. I will never understand why Gavin Newsom continues to do this podcast, particularly even after the way that we confronted him and he was visibly uncomfortable in the questioning, in the line of questioning that we had in regards to what is the purpose of doing this and how does this benefit anyone? His response literally was like, well, I just want to do a podcast where we can just have conversations, but you're bringing on people. And not every guest is this. But you're particularly bringing on people who have strong points of view. And to your point, you know, specifically some of the things that they will absolutely talk about that isn't a conversation. That interview, if that's what you even want to call it, turned into Ben Shapiro, quote, questioning Gavin, and Gavin had no response to it. And that's why I'm like, if for somebody who we absolutely believe is going to run for the presidency in 2028, why would you keep setting yourself up for moments like this to where we're left saying, well, what does Gavin Newsom really stand for and believe? Because in that section of the podcast, he says, he goes, I don't believe it's a genocide, by the way, but then tries to backtrack and talk about the devastation that's been caused there and basically explains some of the things that are within the legal definition as to why people do say genocide. I have it pulled up. I know you mentioned legal definition. I like it right now. Legal definition of genocide was established in 1948 by the UN Genocide Convention, and it says involves acts like killing, causing serious harm or, or inflicting conditions to destroy a group committed with the specific intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group. If you don't, if you maybe aren't as well versed on what's happening right now between Israel and Gaza, or is the Palestinians, I'm going to read to you some quotes from some leaders within Israel that at one time or did lead Israel. I'm going to mispronounce names. I apologize in advance. But this is what Bibi said in his approach to Palestinians. Beat them up. Not once, but repeatedly beat them up. It hurts so badly until it's unbearable. Rabbi ELI Ben DAHAN Palestinians are beasts. They are not human. I could go on and on and on and on about things that the leaders say. BIBI Netanyahu we must defend ourselves against the wild beasts. And that's exactly what we have seen them do historically and even right now. When you apply that thinking, that school of thought to how the leaders in Israel view the Palestinian people, and you couple that with what has happened as far as this humanitarian crisis that's going on right now, how can you not say that that does not fit the legal definition of a genoci? And I understand if Gavin Newsom, sitting there right then and there, could not quote what the legal definition was. But if that was me and I was interviewing Ben Shapiro and he said, well, what's the legal definition of a genocide? I would have made him say it. And then once he said it, I would have picked that apart to actually show how what is happening is a genocide. And has been happening. That's what you do. And I just don't understand why Gavin Newsom keeps floundering around in these interviews where he looks like he's inept to have these conversations or like he's not able to have these conversations. And the personality that you get in these interviews on his podcast are totally different from what we see with his behavior on social media. The way he talks on social media, the way he talks at a podium or gives a speech totally is undressed by guests like Ben Shapiro. Or even when Charlie Kirk was on.
- [106:17]
A
He walked back some of his social media antics on the podcast. Donnie, did he have some of that? What? What? He walked back some of this stuff like he. Donnie, when you get that play that the. The whole or in part thing genocides intend to destroy in whole or in part. If you guys want to hear this broken down. Many a son does a great job. Media Hasan was on the Breakfast Club, Mehdi, Hasan Zateo, all of those places does a great job. Amen. Does a great job at breaking down the case for there being a genocide in Gaza. Right. Rachel already laid it out. But if you're Gavin Newsom and your goal is to make yourself a more palatable figure to the American right by hosting Ben Shapiro, whomever else it is, just understand that, like, there's, like, we're past that. And when I say that we're past that just as a. For Gavin Newsom, as an electoral strategy, let's say that a year ago, a year and a half ago, it was necessary to go on a podcast and be like, woke went too far. Transgenderism and caring about transgender people went too far. Who fucking cares if they unalive themselves? Right? Yeah. You're making an omelet, some eggs. You know, if they fucking get kicked out of their homes if they can't, who fuck. Who gives a shit, right? We gotta protect the wrestlers in Texas. So who. Like, who cares?
- [107:56]
C
Right?
- [107:57]
A
So fuck it. All right, let's say that you felt like you had to do that a year ago. Do you know what's happened since then? What's happened since then is ICE has set to the American streets. The economy has not changed. As a matter of fact, it seems to be deteriorating by a lot of different metrics. People see foreign war in Iran, in Venezuela, Trump threatens to take Greenland. NATO did joint military opera. NATO. NATO did joint military operations as a show of force against the United States. Okay? The world order completely being redefined. Right? We're talking to one year of Trumpism. All different Types of shit, both foreign and domestic. The ability to appeal to people who are within that 35%. That 30%, that ain't changing their mind, Gavin. That's done, brother. You don't need to do that. The other people who made that election tip, those people are in conflict. Those people are in conflict on the economy, those people are in conflict on foreign policy. Donald Trump has lost Nick Fuentes. Like a lot of the other people, these people are in conflict. They don't see it changing, despite what's happening at the southern border, which is way less crossings into the country. When people are asked about immigration, all they think about is ice. All they think about is what they see on the news and people getting shot and whether or not they want 2000 ICE officers with no badges and their faces covered in their town. Like, whether or not the juice is definitely not worth the squeeze on this. It is a political miscalculation to even think that you have to sit down with Ben Shapiro and make yourself look like one of his homies right now. If you think that, you're fucking stupid. You're not paying attention to what's going on right now. What people would want from Gavin Newsom is for Gavin Newsom to calmly, plainly and forcefully articulate how the fuck he's going to get us out of this mess. And sitting down and getting cooked out by one of the defining cucks of politics, one of the weakest, smarmiest, fucking infinitesimal little bitches that we have going right now to let him walk all over you. What the fuck? Like, what? Like, what the fuck is going on? Like, it's like. It's like I really, like, I know I'm not smarter than Gavin Newsom. I can't be. It's impossible. Right? But like, just such an own goal in such a direct way. Did y' all find the other clip? And then your press office tweeted out that it was state sponsored terrorism, which, I mean, Governor, I do have to ask you about that. That sort of thing makes our politics worse. Yeah, I mean, it does. And our ICE officers obviously are not terrorists.
- [111:16]
C
Yeah.
- [111:16]
A
A tragic situation is not state sponsored terrorism. Yeah, I think that's fair. Ah.
- [111:22]
B
That'S fair, man. That's fair.
- [111:25]
A
Hey, man, we was playing against Woodlawn and Roger got hurt, and coach was like, yo, who want to play defensive end? I'm not going to say who because I still fuck with him. Put his hand up. I play defensive end. This is early football. It's like freshman football. Goes in there, gets his Shit knocked off. It's very funny. It was very funny. Actually goes in there. He said he was. He's talking a lot of shit. He's like, all you gotta do is get your inside shoulder around the tackle. And I could be like, Derrick Thomas, man. Like, rest in peace, Derek Thomas. Everybody wanted to be like Derrick Thomas at that point. Goes in there, he gets his knocked off. White boy going crazy because he just put a nigga on his ass. Yeah, yeah, they going crazy. Straight up. Pancake came back over to the. To the sideline. Coach looked at him. He said, don't say it if you can't play it. Don't say it if you can't play it. If you can't do it. Don't say you can. Y' all around on that Twitter. If y' all don't mean what the y' all say about that on that Twitter. Stop playing. Stop playing on the goddamn Twitter. Getting all crazy and saying crazy and then coming back on here and having Ben Shapiro go, yo, nigga, what'd you mean by that? And then you go, nah, they was just playing big bad, My bad job. Hey, big man, it was just playing, bro. I want no smoke. I want no smoke. So, look, if you don't mean it on the Twitter, Gavin newsompressoffice.com.net whatever the fuck y' all got going on, if y' all don't mean it, don't say it. If you don't think that isis, domestic terrorists, you don't have to say it. You don't have to say it. They don't have to be for them to be all fucked up like they are right now, right? But if you're gonna say it, just stand on it. I am disgusted with these people. Y' all can say whatever the y' all want to say, okay? I'm disgusted with these people. These people disgust me. Like, which one of these people am I gonna vote for? What the. Do I have to.
- [113:32]
B
Yeah, Think about.
- [113:33]
A
Am I, like, Like. Like, I am disgusted with these people, man. Somebody's gotta emerge. Some of. Like, somebody's got to come out of the plan. I'm like, I'm about to start hitting up Westmoreland. Like, you're like, hey, Wes, stay out the fray. Like, you know what I mean? Like, hey, man, shout out to Garland Gilchrist up there in. In Michigan, too. Garland Gilchrist is now doing all kinds of great stuff. Me and Garland had lunched out to him. But. All right, look, maybe I went to. You know, I'm sorry. I'm Such a.
- [113:59]
B
No, it's okay. It's okay. It's a lot going on. We should end on a high note. We should end on a high note. Oh, Donnie.
- [114:09]
C
This is a high note. Candace has been. She's been talking crazy lately. A crazy earth. She's been specifically talking about these conspiracy theories that she's been pushing surrounding Charlie Kirk and his death. Let's get a little taste what she's saying.
- [114:26]
B
Why did Charlie think he was a time traveler? He said, as I showed you in earlier messages, that he was a time traveler and he had to find me. Is that just something people are saying to their homies and text messages? And again, not anything that I. I would have placed so much emphasis on back when he was saying it. But it came to fruition, the other parts. He did die young. Why did he think that him dying young was necessary in order to change things? He did die young. It is related. Turning Point USA in some way or another. At the very least, we could all agree it's related to him speaking at a campus event for Turning Point usa. I'm totally occupied by this. I tell you. I read these messages and I'm going, what is this? What is reality? Actually, good question, Candace. Good question, kids, because she is not in it. Let me tell you something. If I send you messages like this, you need to check on me. I would have loved. I would have loved to know what her response was. She. She. What she posted, she cut out. We don't know what she said in response to this, whether she ignored it or co. Signed it. But when I heard this, I said, it's the end of the road. Candace needs to stop now. She has milked this for as long as she can.
- [115:47]
A
Milk.
- [115:47]
B
She has, yes, milked. She has said everything that she could possibly say about Charlie Kirk, and she needs to just let it go. Charlie, I understand her being upset at the beginning. I mean, still upset, right? This was her friend who passed away and died in such a loud and tragic way. I understand you being upset. I understand you wanting to get down to the bottom of it. I get all of that. This was your friend. But now the sharing of text messages, the conspiracy theories, the. This is a. Like, I. I would hate if I was long and gone that you would start put. Posting my text messages and sharing all the things that we talked about in a private, personal way, in such a loud way. I just. She must be stopped. This is the end of the road. You have nothing else to talk about. And now you're talking about Charlie's Text messages with time traveling and it's just enough. We have to move on. I honestly feel like they're also milking this for their own financial gain and benefit too. But that's a converse. A different conversation.
- [116:59]
A
It don't matter. This shit. This the shit I'm talking about right here.
- [117:04]
B
I knew you would like this.
- [117:06]
A
Yeah, fucking right you knew I would like. It is. Nah. Hell no. We can't. We can't stop now. We need.
- [117:14]
B
You want more? You want more?
- [117:16]
A
Fucking right, man. Candace said that Charlie told her that he used to jog and as he would jog, the street lights would go out.
- [117:31]
B
You're wrong for this.
- [117:32]
A
I'm not in any way, shape or form, because I'm not. I don't know that could have happened. I like. It's like, I don't. That. That I didn't. I wasn't there. Look, we used to have this thing at tmz, which everyone hates me because I used to work there, but I'm keep bringing it up. A little inside joke. Me and Harvey had. Can't rule it out. I would say something. He would say something and he'd be like, can't rule it out. I'd be like, can't rule it out. Can't rule it out. I cannot rule out.
- [118:00]
B
You can't.
- [118:01]
A
That he used to. I can't. I can't rule it out that he used to jog and the street lights would flash and all of that stuff and he would go on. I mean, she went deeper and it's basically.
- [118:12]
B
She went deeper.
- [118:13]
A
She did. And he became. She was basically talking about like. She talks about sleep paralysis and things of that nature and stuff. I've experienced sleep paralysis and all of that stuff. They used to call it that the hag used to get on you and you'd be sleep paralysis. And we don't know. I don't know. This is the shit I'm here for, though, because like the other shit that's gonna cause all kinds of problems for Candace, right? But these are legitimately the conversations that I used to have back in the day. The conversations I used to have back in the day was like, you know, I have. We. We have these conversations. Like I have dreams. And maybe the dreams I have are not like my dreams. Maybe the dreams I'm having, okay, what I'm saying to you are like echoes of either other lives that I've lived, lives that I'm living now. Maybe I'm not actually dreaming. Maybe my real extra dimensional self is dreaming and I'M in the dream. Okay. Now, I don't know what the rest of this. This text message would say between her and Charlie Kirk. Like, maybe she cut the text messages off because the next was. Next message is, I'm so fucking horny right now. You know, you don't know what these messages would say. You have no idea what they would say. You know, I know that they were very close friends and that part of this is probably her. And I think a lot of this stuff dealing with the shocking death of her close friend in a real way.
- [119:48]
B
And listen, grief can make you respond any kind of way, but like. But exposing personal messages.
- [119:55]
A
So look, look, look. I want y' all to hear what the fuck I'm saying. I'm not in any way. A lot of this shit that's come out of this to me is straight up fucking disgusting. I think some of these conspiracy theories are disgusting. She's lost Alex Jones. Alex Jones was criticizing this. That's crazy. That's a crazy. But I'm saying, like, when we get into the spooky shit, like, think about it. A couple of days ago, I talked about having a dream where I talked to my dad. My dad was the Crypt Keeper, and his. The skin was off his. Look, the spooky shit, the supernatural shit, this is the most entertained because I had basically cut Candace off because the politics and all of that stuff that's gone. Like, all of that she's even. All of that stuff is out of here. If you. It's beneath Candace right now to talk about George Floyd like it's beneath her now. The question isn't about George Floyd right now. The question is about whether or not George Floyd or anybody else is actually of this planet. The question is about whether or not the aliens are amongst us. Sorry. He said all the discussing stuff and all of that stuff. The question now is, was. Was that even Charlie Kirk or was it CK Dodge from the planet Austinian 6? Like, all of that type of shit. I'm not going to tell her to be respectful to her friend's memory. That's her friend. But if we starting up the X Men. If I can't not. If we starting up the X Men. If we starting up the X Men, if she got special powers, if he has special powers, if it's other people out there with special powers, I'm probably going to tune into that shit, man. Like when I was. I watched this whole fucking thing, and I cannot believe that I did. I haven't watched Candace Owens on a lot. I watched this Whole thing. Now, she did get into, you know, she said she. She took this theory. She texted someone in Turning Point, usa, this theory. She texted them this and they didn't respond? No, they didn't respond.
- [122:02]
B
Oh, this theory about the time traveling, did she.
- [122:04]
A
No, she texted them the theory that I guess she was talking to Charlie, Charlie was speaking to her in some sort of way post death. Yes. Okay. Yes. Okay. No, this was the theory. Now, the Charlie is in purgatory. That's what she said. She said that Charlie is in purgatory. She's talking to Charlie, and Charlie was saying that he cannot get out of purgatory or he's stuck there until they figure out who, who, who, who got to him. And she texted this to somebody at Turning Point. And they didn't respond? No, that they're not gonna respond. Okay, so all of this. No, look, you guys, sometimes grift is entertaining. And you know, you guys know it is because, like, a lot of the people that y' all listen and watch, y' all know that they're Sometimes grift is entertaining. This shit right here, though, if you go comic book with it, it's going to be tough for me not to like comic book. Yeah. If she go comic book with it, it's going to be tough for me to not even, like, I don't take it seriously. I have to take it seriously anymore. So it's going to be tough.
- [123:14]
B
This serious? Of course.
- [123:15]
A
You, like, seriously, do you. Before we, before we go, give us. Give me your craziest one. Give me your craziest theory that you think is real.
- [123:24]
B
You, before we go, I am so not a conspiracy theorist.
- [123:28]
A
So you're not. You don't believe in any conspiracy theories? None.
- [123:31]
B
No.
- [123:33]
A
There's not one conspiracy theory that you believe in?
- [123:36]
B
No.
- [123:37]
A
Do you believe that Lee Harvey hall Oswald shot Dr. King? By the way, it's Dr. King's birthday. Actually not. Let's not use that one.
- [123:44]
B
Yeah, don't do that.
- [123:44]
A
Rest in peace, Dr. King. Okay. It wasn't even Lee Harvey Oswald anyway. That was Kennedy. Lee Harvey Oswald.
- [123:51]
B
I was wondering. I thought that was the conspiracy.
- [123:55]
A
Dr. King was James Earl Ray. But let's not use Dr. King. Do you believe that Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone in shooting Kennedy?
- [124:04]
B
Can I be honest? I don't think about that that much. So it's not even that like. And this is what I guess I mean by conspiracy theories. It's like, okay, I'm not like, well, I gotta see with this particular thing what happened and how it happened. Is that true or is it like. It's gotta be something that I feel like impacts my life personally, that I'm gonna take a deeper interest in, where I might believe the conspiracy theory like that. To me, I'm not even thinking about that.
- [124:37]
A
Do you believe that we landed on the Moon, 1969? Do you think it came out of production in Burbank?
- [124:44]
B
Oh, my God. Is that what they say? They said it comes out of Burbank.
- [124:48]
A
And we produced it. We didn't go there. It was to scare the Soviets.
- [124:51]
B
I don't believe it.
- [124:53]
A
Do you believe in. So I'm trying to think. Do you believe in. Well, it's a bunch of them. Do you believe in aliens? You believe the aliens are out there?
- [125:03]
B
I don't think that's a conspiracy theory. I've had. I've had to accept that one. That one I've had. You believe.
- [125:09]
A
You believe the aliens are out there?
- [125:11]
B
I do believe. I do.
- [125:12]
A
Okay, let me ask you this. Do you believe the aliens are out there? Do you believe that the United States government is hiding the existence of the aliens from us?
- [125:21]
B
There's a whole documentary on it, so I can't even say that they're doing that.
- [125:25]
A
What do you mean? What do you mean?
- [125:26]
B
There's a whole documentary about, like government people talking about aliens existing?
- [125:30]
A
Yeah, they're whistleblowers, Rach. They're whistleblowers against the government. I mean, is that documentary you talking about these guys, These guys that are talking, these ex generals and all that stuff? What they're doing is they're saying that there's stuff that they know that they saw that the government doesn't want you to know.
- [125:47]
B
Somebody recently come out, like in the last year that currently is with the government that said aliens are real.
- [125:54]
A
So. Okay, so.
- [125:55]
B
So maybe then that's mine, I guess.
- [125:57]
A
You don't think that. You don't think the government is trying to hide it, though. You say you think it's real, but the government.
- [126:01]
B
I think they did. I don't really think it's much now.
- [126:04]
A
Disclosure day. Spielberg coming out this year. That's what it's about. Disclosure that where they come out and tell us all the.
- [126:08]
B
I'm very excited to see.
- [126:09]
A
You want to go see that? You want to go see that? Give me another conspiracy theory for race before we go. I wonder if she believes in it. Oh, hold on. I could tell what kind of Bernard is now. So, so. So there's conspiracy theories regarding both the center of the earth and stuff that's going on. In Antarctica. So there's a hole in the center of the Earth where people live. But there's also one that. That says because, you know, Antarctica up there is. There's supposedly this guy that back in the day, this general or admiral or whatever, he traveled to Antarctica. And maybe in Antarctica, there's like a dimensional hole up there where people could live. Now, in the King Kong movies, the recent ones that came out, this wildlife place is where King Kong and all his homies live. Like, fucking Godzilla, dinosaurs, all kind of crazy Land of the Lost type shit that's up there. And that's why Antarctica is the only place that, like, it's not governed by international law or something like that. Like, Antarctica. Like, nobody owns Antarctica because we know the governments of the world know that there's, like, special shit happening up there.
- [127:18]
B
There's stuff. Somebody was just talking to me about this in Antarctica.
- [127:22]
A
Can you buy this? Rach? Come on, Rach.
- [127:26]
B
Maybe we don't know.
- [127:31]
A
You know what? You know what we gotta do now? And Candace's work has done this. We have to book a conspiracy theorist to come onto the show. I need everybody.
- [127:38]
B
I drive me crazy.
- [127:40]
A
Why?
- [127:41]
B
I mean, let's do it. Fine. But I think that's why I have to choose to. Not because I'm too logical. And it would just drive me crazy to live in a world where I'm constantly, like, believing all the conspiracy theories but the Antarctica one. I'll give you.
- [127:56]
A
We're going to get out here. I'm going to tell you guys one thing. My father believed unironically that Santa Claus was real. Unironically, like, unironically. He did not. He was not fucking around and telling stories. He believed unironically, like, in a real way that Santa Claus was real. Me standing up to my dad, this ended up being a whole big thing. And asserting myself to my father was listening to him tell his Santa Claus story for the 45th millionth time. And telling him, dad, Santa Claus is not real.
- [128:39]
B
I don't understand what he did for y' all when Christmas came around.
- [128:43]
A
You don't understand. The lore is the problem. The problem is you don't get it.
- [128:49]
B
You're correct.
- [128:50]
A
You don't understand the lore. This is what he said. I'll tell it the way he told it. I try to be concise. He'd be like, one day, let me tell you something. Tell you something. So I'm. It's Christmas. It's Christmas. It's actually full Christmas. It's not even quite Christmas.
- [129:03]
B
Yet.
- [129:04]
A
And, you know, I'm up there on the papa and mama house. They old people. Old people raised me so them people would sleep. They had been sleep. But you know, me, I was a little boy. Go outside, going to the porch, look around, see what I could catch. Just be out there adventuring. Because, you know, it's a lot of animals out there, and they come out there in the night time with no lights, like, talking about. So, you know, I go out there and just be adventuring. So one night I'm out there and I'm adventuring. I'm just looking around. You know, you try to keep a little torch or whatnot, but you can't hardly see. You're out there in Maryland, it's dark out there, you can't hardly see nothing, right? So you got to listen, you got to use your senses. You gotta use your. Your hearing. You gotta smell sometimes. Sometimes you could smell if one of the horses was agitated or something like that. But I'm out there, I'm adventuring, and that's what I do. And I hear something from inside the house, you know, and I think, oh, maybe papa then got up and he went to the ice box and got him something to eat. So I go back in and I look in. I look down the hallway. You know that long hallway in papa house? Yes, sir, that long hallway. And it's not papa, dad. How do you know that? It wasn't big papa. Niggas. That's not papa. That's not him. This man was way too big to be papa. And when I say why. And I'm not talking about why, like, what's the man from. What's the man from the movie where they. You know, the movie? Like the. The. You know, the movie. I'm talking about my dad. You haven't described the movie. The movie. The movie where the man is like. And they squeal like a pig. You know the man. You see the man around here that. Are you talking about Ned Beatty? Yeah, Ned Beatty. Ned Beatty. You know him from here. Let's lose the homeboy, like. Yes, sir, let's lose the homeboy. You know, how you wide? He wide. That's how this man was. But he was tall, son. This man was tall. This man was about 7ft tall. This man looked like Shaq. This man was seven feet tall. Like Shaq wide, like Ned Bailey. And I seen him and I. I looked at him, I said, who is that? Turn around. He disappeared. I'm like, dad, so what happened was you was little. You asleep, walking Around. I don't know what the fuck you was doing, Going outside or whatever, something like that. You came back in. You see, you saw this guy flash. He's like, no, son, that's not. No, no, no, no, no. It's not the only time I saw him. So I go in down there, and I lay down. I get in my bed. Like, I seen this man. He gone. Whatever. I thought, just like you. I thought I had imagined it. Then I heard. And I'm laying in the bed. I'm like, why can Mama and Papa not hear that? Why can Mama and Papa not. I go back downstairs, and I see him again. But this time, he putting presents a while. He moving fast. Presents is going everywhere. He actually decorating the tree. He doing all kinds of different stuff. Son, I'm watching Santa Claus at work. It was something spiritual about it. It was so. I think he was moving with the strength of the Lord, Son. I come down, I look at him. I turn around. He had no face. He disappeared. I heard this story dozens of times from about 1986 to about 1998. And I was in front of my girl, who recently appeared on the Pop the Balloon show, by the way. I was in front of my girl, and I wanted to be a man. And I said to her and him, I said, there's something wrong with my father. Santa Claus doesn't exist. And dad likes to tell this story. Dad looked at me completely seriously and said, you're going to hell. He said, if you can't believe in what I'm talking about, how you gonna believe in Jesus?
- [132:47]
B
Oh, wow.
- [132:48]
A
I've never seen him before. Yeah, you're going to hell. I said, no, I'm not going to hell. I just don't want to believe your Santa Claus story anymore. And then he explained the lore, which is that Santa Claus only delivers presents to poor kids. Rich kids that need Santa Claus don't get Santa Claus. That was a year that, apparently, things were going bad for Big Papa and Big Mama. And dad was wondering whether or not he was going to get any presents for Christmas. So he was up, looking around, doing all kinds of crazy shit. He met Santa Claus, who gave him a wooden spinning top. Now, this spinning top is the same top that dad gave to me later on. And I spun this top. I'm gonna be honest with you. It went under Ain't Deuce's House. And I never saw it again, okay? So I'll be real with you. I spun the top, it went under Ain't Deuce's House. I Crawled up under Aunt Deuce's house to find the top, and I couldn't find it. Dad says that's because the top disappeared.
- [133:54]
B
You. You had to just let him have it after that?
- [133:57]
A
No. I mean. Nah. I mean, him got into it. He made her leave. No, he made. He made her leave. And then he looked at me and he said, you don't go against your father. And I said, you've been telling me Santa Claus is real for. For a very long time, but you know what? Now that I get older, that might be right. Man, I never seen that top again. Charlie, Kurt could fly. Like, all of this different that's going on. Aliens, Antarctica. Gavin Newsom is a ass. Like, a lot of these phenomenons and shit like this, I can't put my hand around them. I can't put my arms around them anymore. Conspiracy theorists coming on the show. We're going to pick a conspiracy theorist, and we're gonna do this. Make Rach believe is the name of the conspiracy theorist segment we're gonna do.
- [134:41]
B
All right.
- [134:42]
A
All right. Where you going tonight?
- [134:44]
B
Go to the game.
- [134:45]
A
You're going to the game? Mm.
- [134:47]
B
I'm going to the game. I go every year. You know this.
- [134:50]
A
I go every year. Who you going with? Who you going to the game with?
- [134:53]
B
Friends.
- [134:54]
A
Okay. People going out there one nigga night?
- [134:57]
B
No, just me. And one more.
- [135:01]
A
Okay, two. That's called. That's called Duo Les Negras. That's what that's called. All right, you guys. A lot of podcasting. My first day on Concerta. I apologize. Take them caps off. But do not stop learning on Van Lee Jr.
- [135:16]
B
I'm Rachel and Lindsay. Bye, guys.