Hip-Hop’s Jeffrey Epstein, and Trump Meets the Press

Summary

Higher Learning with Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay

Episode: "Hip-Hop’s Jeffrey Epstein, and Trump Meets the Press"
Date: May 6, 2025

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Overview

In this wide-ranging episode, Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay navigate some of the most pressing issues in Black culture, politics, and sports. They open up with a playful discussion about air travel and nostalgia before diving into layered debates on Trump’s approach to NIL (Name, Image, and Likeness) in college sports, the chaos engulfing Houston’s Turkey Leg Hut, the cultural and legal spectacle surrounding Sean “Diddy” Combs’s sex trafficking trial, and the ever-present undercurrent of race in American public life. The episode culminates with a spirited examination of the ethics of squatting vs. landlord rights and a “Glaze of the Week” segment spotlighting the troubling profitability of viral racism.

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1. Opening Banter: Air Travel, Nostalgia, and Triggers

[00:48–13:42]

• The hosts reminisce about hearing "Who Let the Dogs Out?" and its strange power as a party anthem in majority-white spaces.
• Van shares a story of culture shock and discomfort when the song came on at a college club, noting:
  • “When you are in a club full of white people and ‘Who Let the Dogs Out’ plays, the personalities of those various white people come out of them… There’s an aggressive ‘Who!’” (Van, 07:57)
• Rachel and Van discuss the discomfort of being singled out in such moments, with Van reflecting on racial dynamics and microaggressions experienced as a Black student.
• Anecdotes flow into a discussion about community action, specifically a book fair pop-up organized for LA fire victims, underscoring how communities respond to tragedy and the overlooked small losses (like lost books).

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2. Trump, Nick Saban, and NIL in College Sports

[14:53–27:01]

• Donnie brings up Trump’s meeting with Nick Saban and reports of a potential executive order restricting NIL in college sports.
• Van’s Nuanced View:
  • Describes tension between tradition and exploitation in college football, especially for young Black athletes.
  • Points to real-life consequences of premature NIL decisions without support structures, referencing a specific high-profile recruit:
    • “We are getting into a situation with NIL where we're asking a lot of young kids… If we're treating 16, 18-year-old kids the same way we treat 22, 23-year-old men, I think in the long run you're gonna have a lot of stories like the one I just laid out…” (Van, 18:55)
• Rachel’s Take:
  • NIL brings professionalism to college sports but removes built-in protections, increasing opportunities for exploitation:
    • “When you take the amateur nature out… now you have people taking advantage of them in a completely new way.” (Rachel, 20:46)
  • Expresses concern about unregulated “collectives” and economic disparities between schools fueling “bidding wars” for talent.
• Both express skepticism about Trump’s understanding of the topic but agree some form of structure and player protection is needed.

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3. Turkey Leg Hut Scandals—Crime and Cultural Commentary

[27:05–33:40]

• Donnie reports on the juicy legal saga surrounding Lynn Price, former owner of Houston’s Turkey Leg Hut, including arson-for-hire allegations and alleged weed operations.
• Rachel marvels at the sheer volume of controversy: “I’ve never heard of more stories surrounding a restaurant than I have with this.”
• Van brings signature satire:
  • “Turkey Leg Hut has reached the peak of niggerishness in a way that can’t be described... They’re not on the cutting edge—they’re on the bleeding edge.” (Van, 29:35)
  • Lampoons the “crabs in a barrel syndrome” and street-level economics:
    • “I can get you fucking killed in Baton Rouge for $800. $1,400 to set a fire for an arson charge.” (Van, 31:19)
• Both connect the restaurant’s shenanigans to broader themes of Black entrepreneurship, societal pressures, and community infighting.

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4. Diddy, Sex Trafficking, and the Court of Public Opinion

[33:40–47:33]

• Jury selection in Sean “Diddy” Combs’s sex trafficking trial has started.
• Rachel’s legal perspective:
  • Raises doubts about the possibility of an unbiased jury:
    • “How can you go into listening to the evidence and not have already formed some sort of opinion about Diddy, about Diddy’s lifestyle? Like, this has been blasted everywhere.” (Rachel, 34:23)
  • Notes the possible mismatch between publicized debauchery and prosecutable evidence—if evidence doesn’t match expectation, it could help Diddy.
• Van’s questions:
  • What if the government can’t prove what many already believe?
    • “What does it mean for Diddy culturally, if he were to beat the case?” (Van, 44:23)
  • Rachel’s view: “I think Diddy’s done regardless.”
• They predict that, even if legally acquitted, Diddy’s career and brand are essentially over, with business and music communities unlikely to associate with him again.
• Van speculates on how Trump or the MAGA movement might try to exploit the lawsuit culturally, noting Trump’s pattern of capitalizing on high-visibility Black legal cases.

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5. Trump, Meet the Press, and the Ritual of Whiteness

[52:37–64:57]

• Donnie plays soundbites from Trump’s Meet the Press appearance:
  • Trump blurs accountability for the economy (“the good parts are the Trump economy… the bad parts of the Biden economy”), dodges Constitution questions, entertains “Trump 2028” rumors.
• Van’s Core Take:
  • The alarming part is not Trump’s evasiveness, but the “grace” and presumption of competence extended to white (especially male) leaders:
    • “I listened to Trump say he doesn’t really know what the Constitution says… I watch him weave his way through this murky lake of bullshit… The belief in the white male orthodoxy is religion.” (Van, 56:52)
  • Contrasts public reactions to Trump’s “honesty” with the punitive standards applied to Black public figures.
• Rachel agrees, emphasizing Trump’s disregard for the Constitution and his pattern of punting responsibility to subordinates.
• The discussion uses humor, cultural touchstones, and vivid language to expose the persistent double standard in American society.

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6. Due Process, Immigration, and the Limits of Racial Analogy

[69:59–76:19]

• They grapple with the controversy over deporting immigrants without due process, connect it to Black experiences of legal disenfranchisement, and debate whether it’s appropriate to analogize from Black pain to broader constitutional violations.
• Rachel’s response: “The bigger picture is due process…If they are able to skirt around due process and basically say you don’t matter, your rights don’t matter, what is to stop them…from coming after you?” (Rachel, 72:58)
• Both agree that defending due process is vital, even if individual cases don’t directly involve Black Americans.

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7. Glaze of the Week: "Glazing" White Racists for Viral Racism Profits

[77:40–89:54]

• Van and Rachel highlight the profitable backlash when viral racists set up fundraising campaigns:
  • Example: Shiloh Hendricks, who yelled a racial slur at a Black autistic child and then raised over $600,000 in donations.
  • “This Minnesota mom was able to raise $600,000…They made her rich.” (Van, 82:34)
• Rachel criticizes anonymous donors backing racism and slams “platforms that are allowing this kind of stuff to happen… you’re perpetuating racism.”
• They debate whether these fundraising platforms should bear any legal or moral responsibility.
  • Van sees it as a free speech issue; Rachel calls for platforms to question their complicity.
  • Van reads out disturbingly racist donor names and messages from the fundraising site.

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8. Squatters vs. Landlords: Ethics and Economics

[89:59–115:48]

• Rachel brings up a viral post offering people “squatter homes” with fake lease agreements for a $1,500 fee; discussion ensues about legality, ethics, and class struggle.
• Van explores the “squatters’ rights” movement philosophically, notes its links to wider housing justice efforts, and admits a certain sympathy for squatters:
  • “I tend and I don’t have to have a huge opinion on this, but if I’m looking at it, I think I’m with the squatters. I think I’m with people that are saying, why should I have to pay for a place to live?” (Van, 105:58)
• Rachel, ever the lawyer, clarifies the illegality of fake leases and points out the distinction between righteous protest and fraud for profit.
• Debate turns on the question of whether owning and renting out property is inherently exploitative or a legitimate business, and if “controlling where someone lives” is ever justifiable.
• Donnie and Ashley, the producers, weigh in—Donnie notes the real risk of violence that such squatting schemes could provoke.
• The segment is punctuated with candid ethical confessions (“I don’t have it thought out, but…” – Van), self-deprecation, and a promise to revisit the topic with guests from the squatting movement.

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• On tradition vs. exploitation in college sports:
  • “You can’t really be who I am and fix your mouth to be against labor when it comes to them getting a piece of the pie.” (Van, 16:50)
• On viral fundraising for racists:
  • "She stood in it proud, didn’t cover her face up, and then asked for money and you guys glazed her with over half a million dollars. But what I noticed on those posts is that a lot of it were anonymous donors. Why are you being anonymous?" (Rachel, 82:41)
• On Trump and the white patriarchal bargain:
  • “The belief in the white male orthodoxy is religion. Trump is a good businessman despite a litany of bankruptcies because he says he’s a good businessman.” (Van, 56:52)
• Diddy’s fate in the public eye:
  • “I think Diddy’s done regardless. Even if a jury comes out and says… the prosecution didn’t prove their case, what has been shown is that Diddy… is not denying some of these things.” (Rachel, 44:29)
• On squatting and basic rights:
  • “If you’re hungry and you walk into a place and just take the food, I don’t have a problem with it.” (Van, 107:26)

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Key Timestamps

• Opening Air Travel Story & Who Let the Dogs Out: 00:48–09:56
• Book Pop-Up for LA Fire Victims: 10:28–13:42
• Trump’s NIL Executive Order Talk: 14:53–27:01
• Turkey Leg Hut Scandal Deep Dive: 27:05–33:40
• Diddy Sex Trafficking Trial Discussion: 33:46–47:33
• Trump’s Meet the Press Response: 52:37–64:57
• Due Process, Immigration, and Black Pain: 69:59–76:19
• Glaze of the Week: Shiloh Hendricks Fundraiser: 77:40–89:54
• Squatters vs. Landlords Debate: 89:59–115:48

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Tone & Style

The episode flows with Van and Rachel’s trademark blend of humor, cultural critique, personal anecdotes, and passionate debate. Their language is candid, irreverent, and at times profane, but always engaging—a space where deep social critique can coexist with jokes about champagne on flights or mid-south rap nostalgia. The conversation moves fluidly from legal nuance to cultural commentary to philosophical musing, with both hosts unafraid to challenge each other and interrogate their own positions.

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Summary for New Listeners

If you haven't listened, this episode of Higher Learning offers an incisive, funny, and fiery breakdown of current Black cultural debates and American affairs. You'll come away with a deeper understanding of how race, power, and economics are colliding in everything from college football to criminal justice to who gets to party to “Who Let the Dogs Out.” The hosts’ blend of lived experience, legal expertise, and relentless curiosity makes for a uniquely compelling, must-listen trek through the biggest headlines and hardest questions of the week.

Transcript

[Van L. Jr.]

This episode of Higher Learning is brought to you by mgm. If you love high stakes drama, Godfather of Harlem delivers.

[Rachel Lindsay]

I can't wait to see it. I know it has Academy Award winner Forest Whitaker. He returns as Bumpy Johnson, facing his deadliest battles yet for Harlem's future. When ruthless newcomer Frank Lucas arrives, everything.

[Van L. Jr.]

Changes as power shifts and new threats emerge. Will Bumpy forge an uneasy alliance with his enemies? Or will he stand tall as the undisputed Godfather of Harlem?

[Rachel Lindsay]

Well, you can find out in the new season of Godfather of Harlem, new episodes streaming Sundays on mgm.

[Van L. Jr.]

Yo, yo, yo. Thought Warriors. What is up? Her learning is on as I Van.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Lindsay Jr. And it's me, Rachel Ann Lindsing.

[Van L. Jr.]

Rachel.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Yes.

[Van L. Jr.]

Do you remember the first time you heard the song who Let the Dogs Out?

[Rachel Lindsay]

What year did that come out at?

[Van L. Jr.]

I can't remember. Donnie, what year did who Let the Dogs out come out?

[Donnie]

I think 98.

[Van L. Jr.]

Let me see.

[Rachel Lindsay]

To answer your question, no, but I definitely remember.

[Donnie]

2000.

[Van L. Jr.]

2000.

[Rachel Lindsay]

I was gonna say. I remember being around white people.

[Van L. Jr.]

Was around white people. Yeah.

[Rachel Lindsay]

High school. First Baptist Academy. Sounds about right.

[Van L. Jr.]

So I heard the song yesterday.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Doing.

[Van L. Jr.]

I had to fly back Alaska Airlines from out of Newark. Not. Not the best. And, you know, I'm used to a different type of airline at this point. A different type of airline experience. I get settled in, I have a.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Whole ritual, take us through it.

[Van L. Jr.]

I get settled in, take my shoes off, put them on the thing.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Not everybody has a lie flat, by the way. Not every plane. Not saying everybody. Not every plane has a lie flat.

[Van L. Jr.]

Not every plane has a lie flat.

[Rachel Lindsay]

So sometimes you don't get to do that.

[Van L. Jr.]

Not every plane has a lie flat. But if I'm going from LA to New York at this point, I'm pretty much expecting the lie flat. If I'm going from LA to New York, if I'm flying somewhere else, it's fine. But if I'm going from LA to New York, I would be expecting the lie flat situation. Okay, so, you know, take the shoes off, put them there, whole nine. Boom, boom, boom. Then the plane gets up, I get a glass of champagne.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Oh, you do you treat yourself well?

[Van L. Jr.]

I don't treat myself. They're bringing the champagne.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Right. But you don't have. You can have orange juice, you can have water, but. Okay, you like to treat yourself?

[Van L. Jr.]

No, you want to get. You want to relax. Okay, Right. You want to relax. And so they bring the champagne. Then, you know, I get on the WI Fi at this point to make sure that I can have Stuff playing in my ears while I go to sleep. I switch from these. The AirPods, the AirPod, the smaller AirPods, to my AirPods Maxs, so I can.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Cancel out the noise. Cancel the noise, yes.

[Van L. Jr.]

We got you all of that stuff. And then we get up to. Actually, I don't even wait. As soon as the plane takes off and it's in the air. Good. I'll go ahead and hit the lie flat thing. We're going to sleep right now.

[Rachel Lindsay]

A rebel in our midst.

[Van L. Jr.]

But Alaska didn't have that. Okay? They didn't have lie flat. They didn't have it. There were no screens, no nothing. They're like, you're going from Newark to LA and you're going to have to tough it out. All right? But they were playing for some reason. Who Let the Dogs Out? And it was triggering.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Why was it triggering?

[Van L. Jr.]

Everybody on Alaska was very nice. We got in an hour early.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Why was it triggering?

[Van L. Jr.]

Because Ryan Davenport and me went to the Varsity Theater, which is right outside the campus of lsu, basically on the campus of lsu. This must have been shortly after who Let the Dogs Out? Was released. But it was to the point that the song was a major deal. I never heard this song.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Okay.

[Van L. Jr.]

I didn't know what who Let the Dogs Out Was when the song was played at the Varsity Theater, which me and Ryan, we went to the Varsity a couple of times just to switch it up.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Okay.

[Van L. Jr.]

Party with the LSU kids. Just to switch it up when it was played. At first, I didn't understand why a song like that would be played in a club. Cause when the song comes on, it's very happy and whimsical. Like the type of song that plays throughout the credits of a Disney movie. The party was up, the party was jumping. And I'm like, what the fuck is this?

[Rachel Lindsay]

I can only think of the chorus. I didn't even know. That's how the verse goes.

[Van L. Jr.]

That's how the song starts. And it was like, what the fuck are they playing? You know what I mean? No song like that would be played at Club Upscale, at nightlife, for sure. At any of TJ's perfect 10 Kappa events. Well, they weren't Kappa events. So TJ, Mike. Shout out to TJ and Mike. And then another guy. I'm not sure who this other guy was. Maybe it was Jeremy. They were all tens on their lines.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Oh.

[Van L. Jr.]

And so they had a party that they formed Perfect 10 Productions. And it was a Kappa and a Alpha and a Q that were all throwing the parties, which was like the United Nations.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Great idea. Great idea.

[Van L. Jr.]

That nigga TJ is a genius. Mike McLaughlin is a genius. I'm pretty sure it was. Jeremy was the other guy. But anyway, Mike and Jeremy ended up leaving. And TJ still has perfect 10 productions to this day. Shout out to TJ. But it wasn't like that. Cause you go on that bitch. You know what I'm saying? It's gonna be, girl, give me that. You know, that song wasn't out yet, but it would be there. It would be like, you know, you get shaking fast. Why yourself? That's the type of shit that was gonna be playing in there. You know you in that bitch.

[Rachel Lindsay]

I didn't go to those kind of parties.

[Van L. Jr.]

Let me see you, Pendova. Let me see you shout out Bun B. You know, that's what was gonna get in there. So when who Let the Dolls came, when it came on, I didn't know what was happening. I really didn't.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Okay.

[Van L. Jr.]

I'm serious. I'm like, what the fuck is this cartoon ass shit that they put in the shit?

[Rachel Lindsay]

It does sound cartoony.

[Van L. Jr.]

Then something happened and I legitimately got scared when this happened. The chorus came in and what happened? That whole fucking club started going, who, who, who? And then it's a whole club full of white people. And they looking at each other and at me and Ryan and going, who, who?

[Rachel Lindsay]

Who, who, who?

[Van L. Jr.]

And I legitimately did not know what was going on because this record, I had never heard this record before, by the way. This is still the only time I've ever heard who Let the Dogs Out? At some sort of function.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Okay, okay.

[Van L. Jr.]

It's the only time I've ever heard it there. But they are going crazy. And when you are in a club full of white people and who Let the Dogs Out Plays, the personalities of those various white people come out of them. Some people have a very happy who, who, who, who, who? Some people have a very drunk who, who, who, who, who, who? You know, but then there's an aggressive who.

[Rachel Lindsay]

There is an aggressive who. You're correct.

[Van L. Jr.]

There's an aggressive who. Full of, like. You're correct aggressive white guys that are. They're using who Let the Dogs Out? To pump them up.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Correct. They're jumping up and down. Their hands are in the air. It is definitely their hype song.

[Van L. Jr.]

They get hyped off. Who Let the Dogs Out?

[Rachel Lindsay]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Van L. Jr.]

And so, like, it was a white boy. A couple of white boys in there that were seemingly pointing at me.

[Rachel Lindsay]

I don't know about that. I never experienced that part I believe you. I believe you. I believe you. I believe you.

[Van L. Jr.]

They were seemingly pointing at me and going, who?

[Rachel Lindsay]

Who? Who, who, who?

[Van L. Jr.]

And I'm like. And me and Ryan are looking at each other. Ryan is high, me and Rhonda looking at like, what the fuck is going on? And the whole thing was going crazy. And the varsity was going crazy. And as that was playing, as I was getting on the plane, it took me out of my mode. It took me out of my relaxation mode. As I'm getting into the. As I'm getting into this shit. Like, I sat down, then a lady came to, sat next to me. I. I promise you, she had a dog. She had a dog. Her dog was on the plane with her.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Okay?

[Van L. Jr.]

And at first I'm like, yo, what the fuck is happening? Is something about to happen bad? You know, it was like, what's. It made me feel eerie, you know what I mean? And then when they came back, they offered coffee, but I didn't want any coffee. Cause I didn't want to be up. I was trying to sleep.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Sure, sure.

[Van L. Jr.]

But the dog ended up being so nice. It was very nice to fly with a dog.

[Rachel Lindsay]

It's great, right?

[Van L. Jr.]

It was very nice to fly.

[Rachel Lindsay]

I love flying with my dog.

[Van L. Jr.]

Acted ended up being very nice. And she was a cool little pup. And she was kind of looking at me like, I didn't ask them to make that song about me, you know? But then I was able to sleep. I say I was able to sleep for about three and a half hours of what ended up being a four hour flight. Cause we got in an hour early. So. Shout out to Alaska Airlines.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Yeah, well, first you shit on them and then.

[Van L. Jr.]

Well, it's not. It's not my favorite.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Why did you fly out of Newark? What happened? I think that CNN messed up the booking.

[Van L. Jr.]

Oh, I think that. Shout out to cnn, who I love. I'm in a groove with CNN right now, but I think that there's a lot of stuff going on with flights.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Well, there was actually some reports about Newark.

[Van L. Jr.]

I tried to get them to switch it at the end.

[Rachel Lindsay]

You saw that?

[Van L. Jr.]

Yeah, I was trying. I hit them up. I was like, could you please switch this? But I needed to get back. I don't like to get back later on Sunday. I like to get back earlier.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Yeah, we did miss you on Sunday. Shout out to Tracy Thomas. Shout out to the Stacks podcast. Tracee had this beautiful idea three months ago that she really wanted to help out in the way that she felt she could. The communities that had been impacted by the LA fires. And, you know, her point was, a lot of us move on when it comes to a tragedy unless we're directly impacted. And the people who have been impacted by the LA fires haven't moved on or can't move on in the ways that we have. And so she created a book pop up fair for the communities that have been impacted. Pasadena, Altadena, Not Pasadena, I'm sorry, Pacific Palisades, Altadena. And a thousand families RSVP. A thousand people RSVP'd. And it was beautiful. It was a sweet escape for people who I did not know, but I was working the attendee desk as they came up. They were saying that they thought their worst days were behind them. But then yesterday, a lot of homes were bulldozed yesterday and they were happy that this provided an escape. There was arts and crafts for kids. There were lawn games. There was a book barn where you could get up to 20 different books, all different genres. There were book readings for kids. There was free food, drinks, music. You could talk to other people in the community, meet new people. There were author signings.

[Van L. Jr.]

You're supposed to be there.

[Rachel Lindsay]

I wasn't there that.

[Van L. Jr.]

Shout out to everybody.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Well, you were supposed to be there. We were expecting you.

[Van L. Jr.]

I was at cnn.

[Rachel Lindsay]

You didn't tell anybody you weren't coming.

[Van L. Jr.]

Oh, is that true?

[Rachel Lindsay]

That is 100% true.

[Van L. Jr.]

I apologize.

[Rachel Lindsay]

So I sat by myself because you were supposed to sit with me at the altar.

[Van L. Jr.]

We were supposed to do it together.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Well, no, I mean, I was signing books. We had the same time slot, but that's okay.

[Van L. Jr.]

Shout out to.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Shout out to Emily. Who said that?

[Van L. Jr.]

Actually, I do remember. I think I remember this now, but everything gets stacked up to stack.

[Rachel Lindsay]

You need an assistant.

[Van L. Jr.]

Everything gets stacked up to you.

[Rachel Lindsay]

You really need an assistant. It's not like I understand, like I need one. And I don't even have as much on my plate as you do. You really need an assistant? Cause it's impossible for you to juggle all the things, you know, like shout out to you. You're wanted a lot of people, you're pulled in a lot of different directions, but you need an assistant anyways. It was great. And, you know, shout out to Traci for what she did. So many people were so grateful and just really provided, like, some relief for people. You know, you don't think about. You think about, obviously, people losing their home, people losing pictures, but they also lose books. I heard stories of people saying, you know, one woman said, I'm an artist and I had all these art books of different artists that she liked or different types of art. And, like, all that stuff is gone. So, you know, it's just little things like that. So it was really great to be there and do what little I can, you know, to volunteer and, you know, go get her. Tracy's amazing.

[Van L. Jr.]

How does she get the energy?

[Rachel Lindsay]

I don't know.

[Van L. Jr.]

She got kids.

[Rachel Lindsay]

You know what I say? Shout out to theater kids. Cause they are. They have a different set of different energy.

[Van L. Jr.]

They do. I mean, they do have a lot of energy. And sometimes it goes bad. I told you a story about Robbie.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Theater kids.

[Van L. Jr.]

Robbie got beat up at the Quicksack.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Stop it. Stop.

[Van L. Jr.]

This episode is brought to you by Hyundai, who says you can't be the topic of conversation for all the right reasons. The Hyundai Tucson hybrid pairs bold presence with advanced technology and sleek style. It's everything you didn't know you needed in an SUV and then some. Okay, Hyundai. Visit Hyundai USA.com to learn more. This episode is brought to you by Universal Pictures. Would you sell your soul for greatness? What would you be willing to sacrifice? Find out on September 19th in the new Jordan Peele produced horror film him only in theaters, starring Marlon Wayans as the greatest football player of all time and Tariq Withers as his upand coming protege. Directed by Justin Tipping and produced by Monkey Paw Productions. Never Meet yout Idols. Him hits theaters September 19th. Donnie Quick Hitters.

[Donnie]

President Trump is considering an executive order limiting NIL in college sports after he met with Nick Saban. Coach reportedly complained about named image and likeness to Trump while he was in Tuscaloosa to give a commencement speech. It looks like Trump said that he agreed with Saban and he's going to look at drafting an executive order. And he's directed A's to begin studying what an order would say and how he could even do this.

[Van L. Jr.]

This is a very layered issue. An executive order cannot address all the issues that would be involved in NIL. I am concerned about NIL's effect on college sports only because. Okay, so let me explain this. There are two things that are ramming against each other when I look at this. I'm a traditionalist on very few things, but college football is one of them. I'll be honest. College football is something that the tradition and the way that the sport is operated is part of the allure of the sport. Tradition is a big deal when it comes to college football. However, there's been incredible exploitation of the young athlete, particularly the young black athlete, in the history of college Sports, period. Right. As it's become a multibillion dollar enterprise. And the athletes who, a lot of them, particularly in Louisiana, come from underserved and impoverished areas. You can't really be who I am and fix your, your mouth to be against labor when it comes to them getting a piece of the pie. In college football, there is a different side to nil and I'll give you an example. I won't name the player's name, but I'll just give you an example. There was a player that wanted to come to LSU some time ago. He was a safety out of Ponchatoula. Okay? Now, all intents, all in, for all intents, this kid wanted to go to LSU. A lot of his friends went to LSU. There's a 7 on 7 team called the Bootleggers. He was a member of that team. Okay. I think it was from Ponchatoula. Anyway. It was a great, great four star safety. He does not go to lsu. He goes to Texas A and M. He goes to Texas A and M. Texas A and M had a ridiculous recruiting class at that time, was, according to the actual recruiting metrics, the greatest recruiting class of all time. They spent a shit ton of money and they brought in all of these guys. Most of those players end up transferring out. Very few of them were able to stay with Texas A and M because there's so many variables that go into keeping a college player happy and fulfilled for the long term. You know this, right?

[Rachel Lindsay]

Sure, right.

[Van L. Jr.]

That kid ends up playing for Texas A and M for like one year, maybe two years, wants to transfer out in the spring or something, Whatever. It doesn't go right now. He's not playing football. He's not playing football at all. There was a situation to where he wanted to come to lsu. It was probably in his best interest to come to LSU and be in a place that was a little bit closer to home, to where his family and his friends would have been there. But because he has to make decisions for his family, he has to go play at Texas A and M. Now when you have played four years of college ball, or you have played five years of college ball, or sometimes at this point now, 10 years of college ball and you have agent, manager, all of this stuff, you have the infrastructure to make decisions about your family and for your family, it's a much easier thing to do after that time. Right? But we are getting into a situation with nil where we're asking a lot of young kids, 16 year old kids, 17 year old kids, 18 year old kids that are not going to get the life changing money that you would get if you would go into the NBA, right. If you're talking about a guy that's going straight from high school to the NBA, that's still a hell of a decision to make. But you're talking about millions and millions and millions of dollars at this time. It's not always millions and millions of dollars. When you're talking about kids at nil, a lot of times it might be $1 million, a lot of times it might be a half a million dollars, a lot of times it might be $400,000, which is a lot of money in Louisiana, don't get me wrong. But it's not the type of one decision getting paid for the rest of your life money. And if there's no infrastructure to help these kids make the right decision, or if there is no backup plan, or if there's no if we don't care about them, if we're treating 17, 16, 18 year old kids the same way we treat 22, 23 year old men, I think in the long run you're gonna have a lot of stories like the one I just laid out, people who have to make decisions for their families, but might be putting themselves in a worse decision long term, right? Going somewhere where they don't have the same type of support system. And also when you buy an athlete, it is a lot different than what it would be when you've actually formed a real bond with the kid and with the family to get them to come to your school. So it's, we're professionalizing people and look, that's the way that they want it and they're entitled to something, but we have to think about a way to protect them at the same time.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Well, I mean, I think to your point, you're right. But what happens is when you take the amateur nature out of college sports and they do become professionals, then you take away the protection. I think that naturally comes with it. They're treated like professionals, as professionals are treated pretty much in any type of industry that they're in, not just college sports. So now you have people taking advantage of them in a completely new way. I'm not saying it didn't happen before. I totally, I totally believe in nil. I totally believe that they should be getting, I don't believe that they should be able to, you know, make money off their name, image and likeness and then not get a portion of it. But the problem is, and we've talked about this before on this podcast, they did it without any type of regulation. I think collectives are a problem. I don't think that they're regulated the way that they should be. I think that even the way it opens up the door for them to be in contacted even at a younger age, I think it makes them have to face tough decisions as to how they're going to. To your point, provide for their family at an earlier age or have access to certain things. And then it becomes about the money to. To prove your point, your first point, it becomes about the money more than it becomes about the game or the tradition. And I think some of that is.

[Van L. Jr.]

Or the development of the actual young man.

[Rachel Lindsay]

And I think, which is the whole point of being called a student athlete, there's value in that. There's probably pride in that. But the amateur nature of it is gone. Like I would actually, this is the kind of stuff that we studied in. When I went to Marquette, I was a sports law major, or that's what my focus was. And there was an amateur sports class and there was a professional sports class. It has to be totally different now. Be so interesting to be a law student for several reasons right now. But to the point of the story, I think, I don't think it's wrong that they're looking at the issue of nil, but Trump is the wrong person to be getting involved in it. I don't think he has a clue of what some of the intricacies are when it comes to the ncaa, college sports and nil, but I don't think it is the issue. Looking at the issue is wrong.

[Van L. Jr.]

I just think you need some structure there for sure. Need some structure to make sure as far as it being an equal playing field, I don't know if I care that much about whether or not Mississippi State has the opportunity to have a robust and, you know, shout out to Brandon Walker.

[Rachel Lindsay]

But do you care that like, do you care that you know, the collectives, which aren't necessarily aren't supposed to be affiliated with the schools, but every school has a collective that's affiliated to it. Do you care that that collective is a part of the negotiation process to basically create a bidding war for top athletes, does that. Because if you care about in some way of tradition, right, we don't want the tradition as it was. But if you care about some of what the nature is of college sports, you have to care that there is an advantage to like a Texas who could or even an LSU who has an alumni who could negotiate bigger at the table than a Mississippi State can. That changes the game.

[Van L. Jr.]

That advantage has always existed to some.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Degree under the table.

[Van L. Jr.]

Well under the table and in other ways. So I would say that like the main thing that lsu, let's do LSU versus Texas, right? The main thing that LSU had going for it in terms of recruiting was their tradition, but also the capture that LSU has in the state. We are the only big major university in the state. There's nothing that means there's a University of Louisiana system, but there's not another school that can compete with LSU in terms of its hold over the state. So you grow up watching big time college football in Louisiana, you dream of going to lsu. Texas is not the same thing. There's A and M, there's. I mean, A and M is a big fucking. Like they are. A and M is a big operation, right? I mean, A and M is a big operation. There's A and M, there's other schools, there's. And then you go to places like Florida, there's Florida, there's Florida State, there's Miami. You know, different places have. The landscape looks different, okay? However, in order to use your advantage in those situations, Texas has to rely on its donor base to continuously upgrade its facilities to continuously like upgrade its coach. The money went to other places in terms of the arms race for the kids. LSU has a $28 million locker room. $28 million locker room. Southern University, the HBCU in North Baton rouge has a $9 million endowment, right? So that school is operating on 9 million bucks. The locker room in South Baton Rouge is $28 million. So that that money was going other places, just wasn't going to the athletes. I don't have any problem with it going to the athletes. I do like the traditionalist nature of college football, insofar as a kid is going to the school that they dreamed about playing for when they were a kid, where their mama wants them to go, where they uncles want them to go, where they can be a legend forever. At the same time, what I care about more than anything is the fact that you're not making 16 and 17 year olds make generational decisions for their entire families without some type of structure to ensure that those decisions have some sort of fallback plan. And the more that the capitalism gets involved in it, the less anybody will care about that because they'll say, you know what? You took a half a million dollars to come play here. We don't give a fuck what's going on with you. Get on the football field. And that's something that you could easily do to somebody that's 24 or 25, that's cool. But when you're talking about somebody that's 18, 19, it's just a different calculus, and it's going to lead to some bad outcomes that we have to consider that, too. That was more than a quick hitter.

[Rachel Lindsay]

That was not a quick hitter. I knew it wouldn't be. I knew it wouldn't be Donnie.

[Donnie]

All right, let's see how quick this one is. An FBI agent testified in court last week that Lynn Price, former owner of Turkey Leg Hut in Houston, allegedly paid a group of men 1400 dollars to set fire to a bar that was owned by his business partner Steve Rogers. Two other men, John Lee Price and Armani Williams, were also arrested. Lee Price, who's not related to Lynn Price, admitted to his role in the fire, and he identified Lynn Price as the person who organized the arson. John Lee Price also told FBI agents, though, that Lynn Price was using the Turkey Leg Hut to store hundreds of pounds of weed. The marijuana would be sold at the restaurant and packaging that bared the business's name. Lee Price said that he had worked with Lynn Price and part of his job was to move the weed from California to Houston. I do want to clarify before I let y' all take it away. The FBI did add that the investigators haven't found any evidence that Lynn Price was directly involved in hand to hand weed sales at the place. And he's also not currently charged with any drug crimes.

[Rachel Lindsay]

I've never heard of more stories surrounding a restaurant than I have with this. I don't know if Lynn Price is stupid or what, but he's definitely like, the Turkey Leg Hut was huge in Houston. You didn't even have to be from Houston, live there, whatever it is, to know about this long lines. Everybody wanted to be there. It was a vibe. You created something great. And the way that the legacy now of the Turkey Leg Hut and its owners, from their personal lives to now FBI agents involved, to allegedly paying a group of men $1,400 to, you know, set fire to the competition is what it was. Was it 50? 50? I don't know. Whatever the bar was, I had been there before, too, which was great. To. What else was it? The dress code? There was a dress code issue.

[Van L. Jr.]

That's how to circulate hut. That's how Turkey Leg Hut got on my radar. Look, I want to make fun of the Turkey Leg Hut here, but I don't want to do it too much because I need the life rights, because I want to do this for Netflix. I want our company to do this for Netflix. Because the Turkey Leg Hut has reached the peak of niggerishness in a way that can't be described. I haven't seen anything.

[Rachel Lindsay]

He's gonna charge you a stupid amount.

[Van L. Jr.]

I haven't seen anything that has even approached the level of niggerishness that the Turkey Leg Hut has been able to approach. Think about all of the different mutated cultural opinions of niggerhood that the Turkey Leg Hut has involved itself in. Okay? The Turkey Leg Hut has been involved in the argument about niggerish decency. When you're talking about whether or not you can twerk a niggers dress code, about whether or not you can wear leggings to a place. Niggers drug dealing. When you're talking about having a front business.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Alleged.

[Van L. Jr.]

Alleged. And also niggerish. Crabs in a barrel syndrome. When you're talking about the proprietor of the Turkey Leg Hut plotting to burn down the competition. This restaurant and its proprietor are not on the cutting edge of niggerishness. They're on the bleeding edge of niggerishness. We're talking about like, I'm serious. It doesn't get more fucked up than all of the stories surrounding the turkey leg hut. 1400 bucks to set fire. I keep trying to tell y'. All. I keep trying to tell y'. All $1,400. I keep trying to tell y'. All. Y' all don't know what's going on in actual America. People talk to me all the time about, yo, man, this is the. I can get you fucking killed in baton rouge for $800.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Okay, I can. I know.

[Van L. Jr.]

But I can get you fucking killed in Baton Rouge. 800 bucks. OK. 800 bucks easy. 1,500. I could get somebody good at it to do it. $1,400 to set fire for an arson charge.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Mind you, it was a group of men, so not one per. So they had to bust it up. They split that. Allegedly. Allegedly, a group of men were paid $1,400.

[Van L. Jr.]

Wait, were they paid 1,400 in. Was it Donnie?

[Rachel Lindsay]

Was it 1,400 a piece? It says pay the group.

[Donnie]

I believe.

[Van L. Jr.]

Yeah.

[Donnie]

It doesn't say each.

[Van L. Jr.]

God damn. That's the total. You know what they made it up in? They paid him the 1,400. You know what the other part that they paid him was?

[Rachel Lindsay]

What?

[Van L. Jr.]

Turkey Legs.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Allegedly.

[Van L. Jr.]

They paid him 1,400 and fall off the bone. Turkey Legs to go set somebody business. We gotta help each Other, bro.

[Rachel Lindsay]

But that's what's crazy.

[Van L. Jr.]

Like, we gotta help each other.

[Rachel Lindsay]

We do. But if these people needed help, he could have helped them through, like, legitimately through his business.

[Van L. Jr.]

We gotta. We can't. I have a. If you are talking to your homeboy and your homeboy says, yo, I'm about to hit a lick, you're like, what's the lick? Cause we've already. We've all had this hit a lick conversation with our homeboys. Yo, man, the dude from the Turkey Leg Hut say he gonna pay me $300, allegedly, to go burn down this bar. You gotta talk to your homeboy. You gotta say, $300, bruh. I can't let you go burn down the bar.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Do you know how close the two were together?

[Van L. Jr.]

The bars? How close were they?

[Rachel Lindsay]

0.1 mile.

[Van L. Jr.]

Turkey leg madness. What the fuck is going on in Houston? What's going on in Houston? My friend Antoinette down there in Houston hates the Turkey Leg Hut. People, I wonder if this is why. Like, what's going on in Houston?

[Rachel Lindsay]

I mean, the owner doesn't especially. The bed does not have a great reputation, but, you know.

[Van L. Jr.]

All right, let's get into legal. Eagle. Rachel, you gotta take over. This is your segment.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Do I need to take over? Donny, go ahead.

[Donnie]

All right, jury selections are starting right now. Monday, but. So yesterday, for listeners in the sex trafficking trial of Sean Combs, he put in his plea of not guilty. He told the court that he rejected a plea deal that has been offered by prosecutors and his defense lawyer, Mark Agniflo. Preview of his defense, arguing that Combs was engaged in a swinger lifestyle and that the sexual behavior was consensual or even common thoughts on this trial getting started?

[Rachel Lindsay]

I can't believe we're here.

[Van L. Jr.]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Rachel Lindsay]

I mean, they, like, last month, they added charges, and Diddy's defense team tried to get the case. The trial pushed back a couple of months, and the judge was like, no, I was really thinking about this. Since jury selection has started, it's gotta be damn near impossible. Juries, obviously, a jury is supposed to be, you know, it's supposed to not be biased. But how can you go into listening to the evidence and not have already formed some sort of opinion about Diddy, about Diddy's lifestyle? Like, this has been blasted everywhere. So at this point, you knew who he was before, you know the allegations against him. Now you just know too much. You've been privy to so much. Sequestering a jury is not gonna matter because so much has happened before. And I say this in good and bad. You're gonna have people who could possibly be on the jury that are fans who don't wanna see this happen to Diddy. I think this is just so hard. And he can't do a trial by judge because the judge has ruled against him in so many different ways that he's gonna take his chance. I mean, he could, but he's gonna take his chance at a jury.

[Van L. Jr.]

Can Diddy get a fair trial?

[Rachel Lindsay]

I mean, it's hard for me to say. I have no idea. I mean, we're not privy to the jury selection, but, I mean, I could see his defense team, once they picked the jury, still trying to use somebody who was put on the jury as a reason as to why they should have a mistrial or as to why he doesn't get a fair trial. But they've got their word cut out for them. I also think the jury's gonna come in and expect to hear certain evidence, and I think that if they don't see that or hear that, that could also taint their decision.

[Van L. Jr.]

In terms of what?

[Rachel Lindsay]

Like, if I'm on the jury, I might be expecting to see sex tapes. I might be some of the things that have been alleged or that celebrities are on this. I might be expecting to see celebrities. I might be expecting to see. Expecting to see stuff that involves minors. If you don't see that kind of stuff and you've heard so much talk about it and then you don't see it, it might. You might say, well, then, like, were these consenting adults? I'm not saying that that's the truth. I'm just saying I could. There's just been so much that has been told that's out there that if the evidence doesn't match that, does that mess with the juror's mind? You. You just don't know. When you put something in the hands of the jury, you know what it is exactly expected of the jury. But will that juror actually, you know, like, practice that?

[Van L. Jr.]

What you're essentially saying is that the debauchery that's been described in this case has reached this sort of cultural boiling point, for sure. And if the prosecution presents something that doesn't meet that, then people expectation. Yeah. Then people might be going, ah, it's not that bad. It's not what I expected. I expected to see this person here and this person. I expected to see how Diddy took advantage of this young male or female celebrity. I expected to see how Diddy ruined this life and ruined that Life and did this. And if they don't get all of that stuff because he's been painted, by the way, all the allegations that have come out make it seem like he's this sort of hip hop Voldemort. If people don't see that, then they might take it easy on him.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Yeah. And it doesn't mean that he might not be found guilty, but maybe it means a lesser sentence. You know, I think. I don't know. I'm not sure exactly what it is, but I know he could be facing up to life. And so maybe like 30 years or something like that. Maybe that affects what the sentencing could be if he is found guilty. Maybe it affects it being some sort of mistrial. Like they can't come to a decision because people are split. You just don't know. I think they def. I think the favor. It's in favor of the prosecution because so much has been out there. There've been inconsistencies in Diddy's story. Everybody saw the Cassie video at this point, and she's not on trial, but her situation is not on trial. But there are other victims that are going to be testifying as well. So are they gonna expect to hear something? For sure? I don't know. But the burden's on the prosecution. They have. There is advantages and disadvantages.

[Van L. Jr.]

I've seen conflicting reports about whether or not Cassie is going to be called to testify in this.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Yeah, she might, but not, I think, on. There is not a charge for what we saw in the video. Let me put it that way.

[Van L. Jr.]

Right. But she would be somebody who, let's face it, she was one of the first sources that we heard that detailed what Diddy's lifestyle was like. And she talked about the fact that even her involvement in these things, she didn't feel like it was always consensual that there were drugs being provided, that she felt like she had to do this because it's important that we say to people, Diddy's lawyers are going to say that Diddy was a part of a swinger lifestyle that involves sexual debauchery. And what some people would consider the debauchery or that this was about big time sex parties and everybody having sex with everyone and all of that. That stuff is not illegal. The stuff that would be illegal would be whether or not there were people working at these parties that were coerced into doing it or that were doing it under the influence of specific drugs. If there were people that were flown all over the world for the purposes of doing this and were coerced in doing it or paid to do it, if Diddy ran a criminal enterprise and organization that existed to clean this up or to hide evidence or to suppress evidence or to put people in certain places because of that, Right. If all of this stuff was a criminal sexual enterprise run by Diddy so that he could get his rocks off and also use that to have leverage, video and evidence on other people, that is essentially what the government is alleging. If all of this stuff was consensual and everybody was just having a good time, there's no crime there. If the other thing is true, if Diddy was using this to blackmail people, if Diddy was forcing people to do things that they didn't want to do, if Diddy was supplying people with drugs, supplying them with drugs unwittingly, if there was GHB laced baby oil or drinks or situations like that, if that stuff is true, that is what the government is going to make their case on. All right? So it's two completely different things. And they have to show and prove to the ends that they are trying to meet. Now, I'll ask you this. There's a very clear legal standard that the prosecution has to meet here, which is they have to prove conspiracy, intent and damage here, right now. What if they don't do that? What if Diddy goes to trial and beats this? How would you l r look at Diddy after he has gone to trial and been exonerated? Because the way this works in the court of public opinion right now is what people are actually looking for the government to do. A lot of people is affirm Diddy's guilt.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Sure.

[Van L. Jr.]

A lot of people have it made up in their mind that he did whatever he did. Because there have been so many accusations. There's been such consistency in the accusations. The Cassie video is key here because it was something that she alleged word for word in her complaint against him. They came out, they being Diddy's people, and said everything in the complaint is a lie. Right. Even after they settled, none of that stuff happened. And then when you see the video of things going exactly the way that she said that they went, you start to think, why would she lie about anything then? Because legitimately she could have just basically sued him off that one incident alone. Maybe it's not worth $30 million, but if she had wanted to, she had said, I was brutalized by Diddy in this particular time, and I want a civil settlement for it. And if I don't, if he doesn't agree to this. Then the tape comes out, blah, blah, blah. So adding the other stuff in there, you would wonder why she would lie about that stuff and be truthful about the incident that happened between them. I digress. What I'm saying is, in this particular situation, because of that, a lot of people are like, the government needs to prove what we already think about Diddy. But what if they can't? If they can't prove it, then what happens?

[Rachel Lindsay]

Well, it's not if they can't prove it. Right. Because the jury decides if they prove their case or not. So, I mean, that's up to a jury. Twelve people may have said he did, may have said he didn't. I think so It's. I wouldn't use the word can't prove it. I think they believe they can, which is why the case is moving forward. It's up to a jury to decide. Well, we don't really think you met the elements of the charges.

[Van L. Jr.]

What I mean was, what does it mean for Diddy culturally, if he were to beat the case?

[Rachel Lindsay]

Right, right, right. I think Diddy's done regardless.

[Van L. Jr.]

I do too.

[Rachel Lindsay]

I don't think anybody wants to associate themselves with Diddy, because even if a jury comes out and says, well, the prosecution didn't prove their case, what has been shown is that Diddy. Diddy's not denying he didn't do some of these things. Not the criminal charges, but, you know, the swinger lifestyle or, you know, having a toxic relationship with Cassie or, you know, these. These sex parties. I think it's just so damning that why would somebody want to link themselves, their brand, their reputation to Diddy when they don't have to? I think Diddy will be able, you know, if Diddy is found not guilty, he'll sit down with somebody, do some interview, do some podcast with maybe some.

[Van L. Jr.]

He'll do many.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Well, maybe, but. Or he'll do, and he'll hold onto that. Right. Like the court found me, the justice system worked. Justice was served. I was found not guilty. And he'll do. The media runs, and people will talk to him, and he'll go to friendlier spaces, wherever those may exist. But the end of the day, the business deals aren't gonna be there. The music deals aren't going to be there. It's just not the same. It's done. The court of public opinion has already ruled on Diddy, and they've ruled on him. They've decided on him, and they moved on.

[Van L. Jr.]

Yeah, well, we'll see. I mean, we'll see. You're right. Everything that you're saying is right. They have a prodigious task. Diddy's defense, in terms of being able to defend him at this point, particular point, and the prosecution. Once again, I keep telling everybody we're talking about the government. They normally don't move unless they got you. They don't. They normally don't move unless they got you. Another thing about this that'll be interesting. We'll move on, is the Trump administration. I keep saying this. I could see the Trump administration in some way getting involved here. If they can find a way. They're gonna read the tea leaves and how this is playing culturally. They're gonna read the tea leaves and how this is playing culturally. And then if they think that they can get in on this in any particular way, it's such a big, juicy cultural issue that I can't see them staying out of it.

[Rachel Lindsay]

But, okay, let's just say if they do get involved because they're reading the tea leaves and the tea leaves are telling them that this could be an advantage for them culturally, I don't know what that would be. Trump's not running for reelection. Well, right now, constitutionally, he cannot run for reelection. So there's nothing for the culture to vote on. If he wants some sort of public favor, if he wants a path on the back, some type of reward, or to further be able to say, see what I've done for black people, then maybe. But politically, I just don't know what could be the advantage for him.

[Van L. Jr.]

Well, I mean, the MAGA movement is a movement that has entrenched itself with a certain portion of black Americans by saying that we will look out for you when the government has overstepped. There are people that believe, fair or unfair, true or not, that the MAGA movement is a pro criminal justice movement because of the First Step act, because of Lil Wayne or Kodak Black or ASAP Rocky or whomever that it is. And there will be fertile ground on one side of this to say that, hey, Puff got railroaded or is getting railroaded, and we are going to step in in some kind of way and make some kind of inroads even. It's just something that they say. Even if it's just something that is talked about, like, I hope he gets a fair trial. I hope this and this. Even if it's just a way to weigh in and maybe split the cultural baby on it a little bit, I also say this. There's a lot of things that Trump and we're going to get into Trump and his Meet the Press interview right now, there's a lot of things that Trump promised to do, right? And most of the things that he's promised to do for his constituency, he's delivered to the degree that it is substantive or not, Right? He's delivered in saying, hey, I'm going to do this. I said I was going to do this. I said I was going to do this. I said I was going to do this. He's been as good as his word in terms of the mutated project 2025 agenda that they've put out. You know, some of the stuff that he's not being effective in doing. But he said he was, I was going to do this, and now I will do this. He said I would end birthright citizenship. Give you an example. He can't end birthright citizenship because you need Congress, you need a constitutional amendment to do that. But he has to him delivered in doing so. Right? Just for the pedantic people out there that go, he hasn't done everything that he said he was gonna do. He's. He's trying. There's one big thing that he said he was going to do that he's been sheepish and not done, and that is release in full, unredacted, the Jeffrey Epstein files. We know why he hasn't done that. There's going to be call logs about how much he's spoken to Jeffrey Epstein. People in his orbit have spoken to Jeffrey Epstein. There's probably going to be how many times he's been on the plane, how many times RFK Jr has been on the plane, how many times all of these people have discussed all of this stuff. The reason why I bring that up is because Diddy is Hip Hop's Jeffrey Epstein. This is an Epstein issue that Trump doesn't have to be pure on. It's an issue that he's already taking flack for and it's not really bothering him. So if there is anything to be gained out of, like helping Diddy out, it's probably a bigger deal for him to do that than it would be for the Dings that he would take for doing it. Because he's already not being consistent on the Epstein stuff. And it doesn't seem to be bothering his base. It doesn't seem to be bothering people. No, they don't care that he clearly has some type of connection to Jeffrey Epstein or there are people in his orbit that clearly have some type of connection to Jeffrey Epstein that Donald Trump doesn't want the American people at large to know about or else he, he would be as aggressive about that. Cuz that is something that they can do pretty unilaterally as he is about everything else. So in this situation, I don't think that the criticism around helping Diddy out would be that big of a deal to him, but if it was able to make him a little bit more solid with any of that group of people that is like free Diddy. Free Diddy. Free Diddy. You might see Trump do something on it.

[Rachel Lindsay]

That's interesting. Yeah, they definitely don't care.

[Van L. Jr.]

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[Donnie]

Speaking of Trump, he appeared on Meet the Press this weekend with Kristen Welker and he spoke about several topics. I'll play some sound from the interview and then get you guys reaction. The first is him talking about the economy, Biden's economy.

[Rachel Lindsay]

When does it become the Trump economy?

[Donald Trump]

It partially is right now. And I really mean this. I think the good parts are the Trump economy and the bad part, parts of the Biden economy. Because he's done a terrible job. He did a terrible job on everything from his auto pen, which I'm sure he knew nothing about, some of the things he was supposedly signing.

[Rachel Lindsay]

But sir, you acknowledge when you announced your tariffs, for example, the stock market dropped. It's been volatile. It has since gone up. Do you take responsibility? Look at that. Yeah. Do you take responsibility when it drops?

[Donald Trump]

Ultimately, I take responsibility. Responsibility for everything. But I've only just been here for a little more than three months.

[Donnie]

Second bit of sound, he speaks about his third term. That isn't a real thing because of the Constitution. But is it?

[Rachel Lindsay]

The Trump Organization is selling hats that say Trump 2028.

[Van L. Jr.]

Yeah.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Are you seriously considering a third term, Mr. President, even though it's prohibited by the Constitution or is this about staying politically vile?

[Donald Trump]

I will say this. So many people want me to do it. I have never had requests so strong as that. But it's something that, to the best of my knowledge, you're not allowed to do. I don't know if that's constitutional, that they're not allowing you to do it or anything else. But there are many people selling the 2028 hat. But this is not something I'm looking to do. I'm looking to have four great UN years.

[Donnie]

He also spoke about the Constitution.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Your secretary of state says everyone who's here, citizens and non citizens, deserve due process. Do you agree, Mr.

[Van L. Jr.]

I don't know.

[Donald Trump]

I'm not, I'm not a lawyer. I don't know.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Well, the Fifth Amendment, I don't know.

[Donald Trump]

It seems, it seems, it might say that, but if you're talking about that, then we'd have to have a million or 2 million or 3 million trials. We have thousands of people that are some murderers and some drug dealers and some of the worst people on earth, some of the worst, most dangerous people on earth. And I was elected to get them the hell out of here. And the courts are holding me from doing it.

[Rachel Lindsay]

But even given those numbers that you're talking about, don't you need to uphold the Constitution of the United States as president?

[Donald Trump]

I don't know. I have to respond by saying, again, I have brilliant lawyers that work for me, and they are going to obviously follow what the Supreme Court said. What you said is not what I heard the Supreme Court said. They have a different interpretation.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Is anyone in your administration right now in contact with El Salvador about returning Abrego Garcia to the.

[Donald Trump]

I don't know. You'd have to ask the attorney general that question.

[Rachel Lindsay]

So where to start, man?

[Van L. Jr.]

All right, so this, what was the.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Most alarming thing to you?

[Van L. Jr.]

None of it was really that alarming.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Okay.

[Van L. Jr.]

We've talked about this on the podcast before. None of it was very alarming. The only thing that's alarming is. How can I put this? The only thing that's alarming, like whiteness alarms me. I'm alarmed by whiteness.

[Rachel Lindsay]

What do you mean?

[Van L. Jr.]

You know, Dave Chappelle has, he has a routine, the golden age of Chappelle, where he talks about getting pulled over by these police officers and he's pulled over by the police officers and he's doing something. Maybe they were, it was always, you know, comedy setup. So maybe they were doing coke or doing something crazy or whatever, whatever. The cops pull him over and Dave's all scared. And he looks at the cop, his white friend looks at the cop and goes, officer, I didn't know I couldn't do that. And Dave is like, that shit not gonna work. And then it works, right? Because there's this trust for sure.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Grace.

[Van L. Jr.]

Grace. There you go. Better word. There's this grace that's involved when people think that you inherently are good, when they think that you got shit under control, they like they'll survive some of your fuck ups. So I listened to Trump say he doesn't really know what the Constitution says. He's the President of the United States, right? He doesn't really know what the Constitution says. He's not sure what the Supreme Court means. It's unclear which parts of the economy are Joe Biden's fault and are his fault. Even though he's the President. I watch him weave his way through this murky lake of bullshit that allows him to take credit for anything that's perceived as a positive and avoid blame for anything that's obviously a negative. And at the same time, I watch the notion come out of his administration that whenever a black person or a woman or God forbid, a black woman is in a position of power, that they are incompetent and in that position of power because of cultural charity. So I watch the intellect and the expertise of people that are non white men get shredded, whether or not they are educated, whether or not they are duly elected, whether or not they are fairly promoted. I watched that just get destroyed by an entire group of people that want to believe that the only way to get something done right is if a white man does it. And then I watch their example, sit down and say, I don't know, I'm not sure. You'd have to ask somebody else completely pass the buck on any responsibility for his own agenda. And then I'll watch people go, yeah, that makes a lot of sense. God doesn't know. Defend it. Supposedly a very stable genius, as he describes himself, a business genius, a science genius, the most competent president ever with the strongest, most direct agenda ever who can't answer a fucking question and doesn't have to answer it. Doesn't have to answer it because the belief in the white male orthodoxy is religion. It's religion. Trump is a good businessman despite a litany of bankruptcies because he says he's a good businessman. Trump is honest. I was on CNN last week and we were having a great roundtable and someone says they appreciate Trump's honesty. He is one of the prolific liars in American Cultural history, but he's honest because he's an asshole. If anybody else is an asshole, they hate it. If Obama is smug, they hate it. If Trump is an asshole. We like it when somebody is an asshole. That's real. I'm telling you, the MAGA movement is about more than just politics. The MAGA movement is about the religious connection that America has to the white male orthodoxy and whether or not a nation as diverse as what we are has the gumption to move past that and how vehemently they will fight to make us believe in it. I just watched incompetence. Sit down and have a conversation. Avoid every question, avoid all accountability. And people are just gonna be like, okay, that makes sense. Let's go fucking get em.

[Rachel Lindsay]

I agree with everything that you said.

[Van L. Jr.]

I bet you.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Well, do you? Because, you know, you try to label me a Trump lover, I. You get that head out of here.

[Van L. Jr.]

Get that? That's funny. Trump lover. No, no, no, no, no, no. The one, the vagina.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Don't do it, please.

[Van L. Jr.]

Vagina. It's funny. It's what you like.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Please don't do it. His accent is funny wherever it came from. I agree with everything that you said. I. Maybe alarming is the wrong word because as I watched it, for me, it was just all so telling. I agree with you. I agree with you. The trust, the grace that's given to white people, that is not given to everybody else. I agree with you.

[Van L. Jr.]

Particularly white men, straight white men, white men.

[Rachel Lindsay]

I agree with you with the sentiment. No, no white women. Because we're going to get into that later in this episode, too. I agree. So it is whiteness. I agree with you when you talk about Trump being an asshole. Because it's not that he's an asshole. He's honest, right? If Obama is smug, he is an asshole. He is the worst person. You have experienced that being a black male public figure. I have experienced that being a black woman public figure. There is no grace understanding that's given to something that we say or do. And when a counterpart does it, a white counterpart does it. It's the same thing. Could go on too many tales when it comes to that. But it was telling to me. Because the one thing I do believe about Trump is that when he is asked about the Constitution, when he is asked about due process, I truly believe he does not know. But I also believe, in addition to that, he does not care. He does not care to know twice. Donald Trump has stood in front of the American people with his hand on a Bible and has promised to preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution, but yet he doesn't know that's the oath of the president. He doesn't know what the Constitution says means when it comes to particular things and how it governs this country. I believe that. And nor does he care to understand what the Constitution says, what it's supposed to mean, and how you're supposed to utilize it or abide by it in this country. He doesn't care. That is the telling part of it. And he surrounds, and I believe that this also is how he runs his business. He surrounds himself with people that he can either punt the responsibility to or blame things when they go bad on. When he talks about within this interview as well, which it really is, yes, the interview can be frustrating, but it's telling. And I think it's interesting to watch. When he talks about the Supreme Court's rulings and how his lawyers will follow the Supreme Court rulings, they literally are not following the Supreme Court rulings. When it comes to Abrego Garcia, who is still in El Salvador, he's like, well, I'm gonna go with what the U.S. attorney is doing. I mean, the attorney general is doing, and I'm gonna follow what they do. He doesn't care about anything that has to do with abiding by the rules or, in this particular case, the Constitution of this country. He is going to do whatever it is that he wants. So as I watched this interview, I wasn't alarmed, but I was like, once again, President Donald Trump is telling you who he is and what he will and won't do and what matters to him.

[Van L. Jr.]

So, look, I don't know. Let me tell you something. Let me tell you something. I don't know, and let me tell you why. I'll be honest, you don't know. The point that you're making is very well stated, but I'm not sure, because they're using the Alien Enemies act to be able to send these people out of the country without due process. So he's both using the Constitution, albeit a very old and flawed interpretation of the Constitution.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Right. Interpretation being the key word.

[Van L. Jr.]

Right. To send these people out of the country, to send these men and women out of the country without due process, using the Constitution to do it. And then he's got the legal community or the Justice Department that's saying, no, that is not an appropriate use of the Alien Enemies Act. The Alien Enemies act is very directly referring to wartime. Wartime and a foreign nation invading. I was going back and forth with my foil, Scott, about whether or not that is the case. Judges say no, it is their just the judicials branch to interpret the law. They do. Literally telling judges is so interesting. So it's funny, right? It's really hilarious when you think about it. So somebody tells you that you have a cracked head gasket and your car is about to stop, you have a cracked head gasket. And then you go, who are you to tell me that my fucking head gasket is cracked? And they go, I'm a mechanic, so it's my job to look at your engine and then tell you what's wrong with it. You're one mechanic. You don't tell me when my engine is broken, huh? Actually, I do. I'm a mechanic and I went to mechanic school and I learned all about the intricacies of engines, carburetors, about how to fix them, about how to tell that they're wrong. As a matter of fact, I didn't even need to look under the hood of your car to tell you that your head gasket is broken. I heard it. I knew your head gasket was broken when you pulled this raggedy motherfucker in here. I actually don't need to do all the work. I heard it. I've been doing this for a long time. I know head gaskets. Yours is cracked. New engine or new car? Make a decision. That is what it's like for somebody to tell a judge that it's not their job to interpret the law. That's their job. They are the constitutional mechanics of this country. And you can't do it, obviously, because you're saying you don't know the constitution. But maybe you do, maybe you do because that's how you're trying to use it, bend it to your needs and ends. I'm not sure. I don't know if he has been explained this stuff and he's just lying. Because once again, there is no penalty in America for white ignorance. Black ignorance is melt with odd nigger. You should have known 50 years. Ah, you should have known. Well, you should have known 50 years. Black ignorance is met with choking you out, shooting you. Pop, pop, pop. I bet the next one will know. Don't talk back. But if you didn't know you could do, you couldn't do that. It's fine, it's fine. No one cares. Be the president. You send a guy to a fucking gulag in El Salvador. So I don't. I really don't know. I don't know. I'm not sure there's A part of me that thinks he fucking knows that he can't send Garcia, that that's illegal, like, and he doesn't know that he can't send him. He definitely knows he has to bring him back. Because the Supreme Court said that.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Well, he said I have the power to bring him back. This is what I mean about, okay, let's say he does. He may not know or whatever you said, but he doesn't care. He has literally said I could bring him back if I wanted to, and he's not. Because he doesn't care. Because an Abrego Garcia doesn't matter to him. He doesn't look at him as a human being. We definitely know he doesn't look at him on the same level as him, but he doesn't even see him as a human being. He's definitely not treating him like one. To him, he has no rights. Pretty much any illegal immigrant he treats like that, they don't matter to him. They're nothing to him.

[Van L. Jr.]

Question. I've been getting some pushback lately from people who say that I shouldn't use the black experience. I'm willing to listen to this, by the way.

[Rachel Lindsay]

The black experience for what?

[Van L. Jr.]

That it's wrong to use the black experience. We haven't talked about Garcia very much on the podcast, and maybe it's wrong. Maybe we should have talked about more about it. We've talked about the politicism of the issue and whether or not going to El Salvador to get him back or how the push pull on it reflects itself in a larger discussion about immigration. But we haven't really had the human rights discussion about it. We haven't had.

[Rachel Lindsay]

A little bit.

[Van L. Jr.]

A little bit. We haven't. But when I talk about it, I often talk about it through the lens of, you know, this is one of the issues that a lot of my homies from back in Louisiana around are. It actually goes the furthest with them. The tariffs do, too. Knowing that you might have a summer where your business suffers a little bit more. Because I know a lot of entrepreneurs and these people were very pro Trump. They were very pro Trump. They were pro Trump because they thought that Trump was gonna get the economy humming in a way that it hadn't been humming before, and that that was going to manifest itself in better profits for them, more economic stability for them. And for some of these people to know that they are not going to be able to get the goods that they need or that those goods are going to be more expensive or that people, we might have a recession A lot of them are like, wait a minute, what's happening? But the Garcia thing is interesting in and of itself because there are a lot of brothers who I talk to, who they believe in due process.

[Rachel Lindsay]

We had a whole conversation on this.

[Van L. Jr.]

Well, I'm saying, yeah, they.

[Rachel Lindsay]

And you talked about black men and how they. Yeah, we. I don't know what people. You literally did a whole thing on them.

[Van L. Jr.]

So I'm saying is, like, that's a reason why I sometimes go where I hear from a lot of black guys that they don't want to be pulled over and then have somebody. So go, fuck it, I can go through your car. Which they feel like happens to them anyway, particularly when they don't know the law. Or, fuck it, I can do this. Or fuck it, I could do that. Or, fuck it, I could do that. They want due process to work because they live in a place where they feel under the thumb of the police. So sometimes I'll bring that up when I'm talking about Garcia, and people will say, van, you shouldn't use the pain of black people to advocate for democratic political talking points or in that type of rhetoric, using the Garcia thing is not a big deal. It doesn't matter to black people because he's not black. And so don't do that. Don't bring our pain into that discussion. I don't know. I don't think that it's. I don't agree with the point, but I think that the point is. I think it's an interesting point.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Well, I don't know if I would call it interesting, but I can understand why somebody would say that.

[Van L. Jr.]

Right.

[Rachel Lindsay]

I can understand it. But my pushback to that would be the bigger picture is due process. The bigger picture is if they are able to skirt around due process and basically say, you don't matter, your rights, don't matter. What is to stop them? In a country who is constantly. To your point of using the black experience and the pain, a country who's constantly done that to you in various ways, what is to stop them from keeping that train rolling to then coming after you? And so you have to look at the bigger picture of. It is a constitutional right. It is there for a reason. We didn't always have it as black people.

[Van L. Jr.]

Absolutely.

[Rachel Lindsay]

And so it's. I get you. It's not apples to apples, but the issue of due process, period, is something that we should be talking about. And maybe we can talk about our experiences. May they be. Even though they may be different under, like, without having due process and what that is. But my pushback would be. We have to recognize it because it could get worse.

[Van L. Jr.]

Yeah. I mean, for me, when I look at something like that, I look at. Everything to me comes from the lens of my experiences as a black man in America. Sure. And so, you know, as annoying as that can get for people, it just kind of is what it is. You know, I was listening to that eight Ball and MJG this morning.

[Rachel Lindsay]

What song?

[Van L. Jr.]

Space Age Pimpin. You ever heard that one? I'll be obliged if you step outside because my ride is awaiting.

[Rachel Lindsay]

I have not.

[Van L. Jr.]

You never heard that. Space Age Pink. But I just think about, like, how awesome it is, how awesome it was to be a black kid. 94, 95, when that space age pimping was out, when that armed robbery was out. Eight Ball and mjg, man, they don't get their props. I'm telling you, man. I keep trying to tell y', all that Memphis shit don't get his props, man. That Memphis shit was to my core. Gino put that Memphis shit in our brains.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Is that your favorite eight ball in mj?

[Van L. Jr.]

Nah, it's armed robbery.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Okay.

[Van L. Jr.]

On the way to Jamaica, scheming up on how to take a boat from a victim, run right up and stick him. I'm doing the ADHD thing. But look, the only reason why I say that is cause, like, you know, a lot of the things that are in my brain, I immediately go from, okay, this is happening. This is injustice. Immediately I go to, how will this affect black people? So when I see someone being. Having their due process taken from them, I think, oh, my God, we don't want to normalize this, and we don't want this normalized at the highest level. Because this is something that makes our community directly vulnerable or it doesn't make our community directly vulnerable. Our community is already directly vulnerable. It actually plays into some of the vulnerabilities when you're dealing with law enforcement. I think stop and frisk. I think old school vagrancy laws. I think of all the ways that the legal system has been tinkered with and pulled apart to illegalize black.

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[Rachel Lindsay]

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[Van L. Jr.]

Donnie, run the glaze of the week. Glaze of the week. Glaze of the week. You're on somebody's meat. It's the glaze of the week. Glaze of the week. Glaze of the week. You sucking dick. Let me tell you something.

[Rachel Lindsay]

The pop.

[Van L. Jr.]

That was Donnie. Donnie had the pop. There's been a lot of talk about the glaze of the week theme song.

[Rachel Lindsay]

It's a hit.

[Van L. Jr.]

But I got somebody on my side now who will.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Yeah, I heard Will has been walking around the house second place of the week.

[Van L. Jr.]

So we know Rachel and I know this really talented actress. She deals coke on the side here.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Stop doing that. Stop doing that. You really are in to try to ruin people's reputation.

[Van L. Jr.]

But we know this really talented actress. Really talented. Now, I'm not gonna say her name that I've said that, but she's just a delight and her brother is a big fan. Of the glaze of the week theme song. And that was enough for me.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Really. That was the one.

[Van L. Jr.]

Right. Because I get a lot of pushback for my songs. You know, the songs, they just. They pour out of me.

[Rachel Lindsay]

I have a segment that we are going to do. I mentioned it just came to me.

[Van L. Jr.]

Okay.

[Rachel Lindsay]

At the live show.

[Van L. Jr.]

At the live show.

[Rachel Lindsay]

We're gonna do a segment at the live show. I think we should take suggestions from the audience. And on the spot, I make up a song. You just make up songs.

[Van L. Jr.]

Okay.

[Rachel Lindsay]

I think on the spot. I think people would really. I'm not gonna go too long with it, but just you take a couple of suggestions and you just go. Because you've really labeled yourself as a genius in this category. You're one of the best to ever do it. And so we're gonna put it to the test. So you guys, you're attending the New York show. We're a week away, which is very exciting. Come ready with your topics.

[Van L. Jr.]

Yeah, I'm with it.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Okay.

[Van L. Jr.]

I'm not backing down. All right, so glaze of the week this week is to white racists. And white racists don't love anything more than supporting and glazing other white races. Darren Wilson is the cop that shot Mike Brown. He was able to get $225,000 for legal defense. Derek Chauvin is the cop that murdered George. Floyd was able to get 200,000 bucks for legal defense. George Zimmerman, the racial terrorist who killed Trayvon Martin. Another quarter million dollars through GoFundMe and legal defense situations. All of these guys, some of these are GoFundMe. Some of these guys are just legal defense things that have been set up. There is a new one on the block that has been financially glazed by all the other white racists. Her name is Shiloh Hendricks. Now, Shiloh Hendricks did something that all of us should be able to agree is terrible to do. She yelled the N word at a black autistic young man at a playground. It's caught on video. Shiloh Hendricks is a human piece of filth, an excrement. This went viral, as it should, because we need to know the racial terrorists that exist in our midst. It went viral. And what happened? This Minnesota mom was able to raise $600,000. $600,000 and counting. Still going and counting. Going up. $600,000 for people that jumped in to help her because she's a piece of shit. 600,000 bucks. She, of course, was able to cry the crocodile tears. She said that she's been doxed. She says that her family members are being attacked. She said that her eldest child might not be going back to school. All things to me, that's been brought onto her by her extreme lack of humanity, by the extreme way in which she treated and tried to intimidate and scar a young black person. But you know who doesn't care? The Glazers, the racists, the imbeciles. They made her rich.

[Rachel Lindsay]

They made her rich. And so are the platforms that are allowing this kind of stuff to happen.

[Van L. Jr.]

Oh, a little glazing on their part.

[Rachel Lindsay]

And I really was thinking about this. First off, the only other thing I'll say about the Glazers is we're the glazing. Proud. Okay. Because what Shiloh Hendricks did, this woman from Minnesota when she did her post, and it's not on GoFundMe, it's on a Gibson Go, it's on a site. Yeah, I'd never heard of. She currently raised $660,67,823 and counting. When she made her post, she didn't just become a victim and cry her white tears and say all the things that has happened to her. She stood 10 toes down in it. She said, and I quote, I recently had a kid steal from my 18 month old son's diaper bag at a park. And I called the kid out for what he was. This is a woman who is not apologetic. And she didn't say it one time, she said it multiple times. She said, that's what he is acting like. So that is what I'm going to call him. She stood in it proud, didn't cover her face up, and then asked for money and you guys glazed her with over half a million dollars. But what I noticed on those posts is that a lot of it were anonymous donors. Why are you being anonymous? Shiloh isn't Shiloh. Hendricks is saying, this is who I am. And I do it again because that's what he was acting like he was. Y' all should start, stop being Anonymous. Somebody donated $10,000. Put your name on it. Be proud in what you did. You know what I'm saying? Like, I'm sick of that. But the other part of it, what I was saying about these, the websites that are allowing this, you're perpetuating racism. And I know this isn't the first time that it has happened, as you pointed out all the other times where hundreds of thousands of dollars have been given to people who have been found guilty of murder, who are racial terrorists. I don't know what can be done, but this woman is allowed to be able to ask for money because of sites like this. I don't know how it can legally, I don't have the answers. But something should be done where this should not be allowed to happen. Go to your own. If you want to go to your own social media page, your own personal page, and you want to ask for money, you want to put your cash app on there, maybe, maybe that's a problem too. But GoFundMe shouldn't be allowed to do this or giftsend me or gift send me or any of these others. You should not be allowed to crowdsource to continue to be racist. And that is a conversation we need to be having.

[Van L. Jr.]

That's kind of a free speech thing, though.

[Rachel Lindsay]

It might be, but it should. That's like, it's. Take the free speech to your personal platform. Right. I'm not saying meta should be taken down. I'm not saying Twitter. But this. I don't know. And again, there might not even be a legal thing. I don't know what it is, but I can't stop thinking about how she can do this on these sites.

[Van L. Jr.]

Well, what I'm saying in this case, that is actually an interesting argument, but I would probably be on the other side of it just because. And let me tell you why. Just because that then gives this platform too much power to qualify. What would be racist giving.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Like, if it does. And they would be sued.

[Van L. Jr.]

Right. So what I'm saying is.

[Rachel Lindsay]

And they'd probably be represented by the.

[Van L. Jr.]

In this situation, if you're. I just don't see how that works in this situation, if you're. If you're giving money to. I once did something on Kickstarter to where I was trying to see if I could get money from Kickstarter back in the day, and I was gonna do a documentary called the Art of Ballin'. And what I was gonna do is just have a bunch of people fund my Kickstarter and. And then I was just gonna do a documentary about me spending their money. I just wanted to see if Kickstarter would let me do it.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Did they?

[Van L. Jr.]

No, they didn't. Okay. And if this was Help me get rid of niggers, then I don't know if GiveSendGo would allow this up here. If this was Help me get rid of niggers, let's get rid of the niggers. They'd probably be like, nah, you can't do that. But if this is. I had this situation that happened, and we believe the situation to be racist. The situation is racist. And now I might lose my job or all of that stuff. That kind of is the whole purpose of the thing.

[Rachel Lindsay]

I get it.

[Van L. Jr.]

If I wanted to give 30. If I wanted to give $100 to Carmelo Anthony's legal defense, I wouldn't want somebody to tell me I couldn't do it because it was too racially charged.

[Rachel Lindsay]

How does gift fund me make money? GoFundMe.

[Van L. Jr.]

I'm sorry, whatever these places are, they make money by taking a portion of the proceeds for any of this.

[Rachel Lindsay]

So, like, when I see this, it makes me not want to contribute to a Go. To a Go, like, to anybody's GoFundMe or gifts or what? This isn't GoFundMe. What is it?

[Van L. Jr.]

This is Gifts and go.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Gifts and go. It makes me never want to do it.

[Van L. Jr.]

And if GoFundMe wouldn't allow them to.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Do this, I don't want you to ever be able to profit. I don't want to give money to your pockets. If this is, if this stuff is allowed on your site, I get it. And maybe that's the boycott, right? We're in the phase of boycotts. We're talking about certain things. I, I don't. And obviously there are people who truly need money and I've given to sites like this before, but I just can't stop thinking about it. If it's a free speech issue, which your point is well made. And like I said, I don't know if there's any legal issue with this at all. It just bothers me so much when I see something like this. My thought is, nobody's telling you you can't say it right? You want to say it, say it, go to your social media and do it. But like these, there should be something in a discussion with sites like this where don't you feel bad? Don't you see how wrong it is for somebody to profit off of this through your site? You don't care.

[Van L. Jr.]

So I'm looking at some of the people who have given. Adolf gave $10. Equality for white people, gave five bucks. There are some names on here. David Heselstein is on there. Dean Erickson. Dean Erickson came in. That's E R I C S o N. He came in for twice. He gave 50 and then he was like, I gotta double back and give 50 more. Why did he win? Negroes Natter gave one. Nick Ger N I C G E R gave some. Most of these are anonymous though. Keep the momentum going. Anonymous. Give her 100 bucks. No, niggers gave $50. Yeah, so Bill Clacks is in there. Let's hit one million peeps. Just donated as well. So I don't know. I keep getting told that racism is gone, there's no more racism. But it seems to be pretty lucrative.

[Rachel Lindsay]

I was about to say. And you could not only can you be racist, you could profit off of being racist.

[Van L. Jr.]

It seems to be pretty lucrative. It's a one to one right there. Ooh, ooh. I saw something really interesting and I was really interested in what you were going to think here. So a lady named Jasmine Ex eth posted something on the old Twittersphere. Donnie, I'm going to read this One off. Okay, Donnie, I want your opinion on this. All right? I want everybody's opinion on this. This is the tweet. There's a girl on IG that coaches people on how to be an effective squatter. 1500 bucks, one time payment and she'll find you a house to squat in for at least a year with fake lease agreements. Then she says, I'm never becoming a landlord. I'd shoot one of y'. All. We were able to find. Or she posted a screenshot of the account in question. Now, I can't find the actual account because it just says squatters homes. But then I can't see up there to the top left to actually see what the name of the account is. This is the stories. This is what it says on there. The houses are squatter houses. They are ready to move in with locks changed already. 1500 bucks comes with lease, BGE and keys. The two outcomes with the house is that A, the landlord can pay you to move out. That's between two thousand and ten thousand dollars. B, the landlord will say you can stay but just pay him rent. Worst case scenario, they will take you to court for wrongful detainer and ask you to move out. But that takes two years plus. So either way you get your $1,500 one time payment worth. Also, BGE will stay on and the water, so the utilities will stay on. In Maryland, the landlord cannot cut the water off no matter the circumstances. This is best for my clients facing eviction who need somewhere to go fast, or my clients that need to get out of a sticky situation fast, or my clients that can't get approved for anything at all. So this is the situation. There's a lady, actually multiple people as I've done research that identify squatters homes homes to where you can go and move in and squat there that have landlords that are either or owners that are either in precarious situations or homes that have just had the locks changed or whatever. But these are squatter homes, homes good for squatting. These people know the law. They know how long it's going to take you to get out of there. And they're telling you that these are good candidates for you to go be able to find housing so that you can get around approval for a house or if you need somewhere to go fast or if you just want to take advantage of the system and go squatting somebody.

[Rachel Lindsay]

I guess I don't understand. What I don't understand is how does it come with a lease and how is it legal to Say I have a fake lease. Like, that's what the tweet says. Fake lease agreements. It comes with finding a house to squat in at least for a year. With fake lease agreements. Well, if you're altering a document and it's not legal, like, it's fake, I don't understand how you can do that. That's one. And then, because I always thought squatting was. You find an empty house, you're in it. Because I don't remember if we talked about this on higher learning or not, but there was something like that in California where they couldn't kick the person out, but they were just. They had moved into the house. Like, they got in. They didn't have keys. That's what I'm also not understanding. This person saying that they will give you a lease and keys. How? Well, I don't get that part.

[Van L. Jr.]

Well, this person is probably on the inside of something. This might be, like a realtor or somebody who knows.

[Rachel Lindsay]

So then that seems. There seems to be some sort of illegal nature of it, but keep it. Keep going.

[Van L. Jr.]

Okay. I've also seen other situations as I looked into this a little bit more. There are people that go and get Airbnbs.

[Rachel Lindsay]

That's what I've seen.

[Van L. Jr.]

And then just stay.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Yes, that's what the case was in California.

[Van L. Jr.]

Right.

[Rachel Lindsay]

And so, like, I understand how it's done if you've already been there and you're just holding over and you've. So you've had access to it. But I don't get this. So, like, it's really hard for me to have an opinion on this because I don't understand how you can have a fake lease agreement and that's upheld to be okay. Unless you didn't know you had a fake lease agreement.

[Van L. Jr.]

Squatters, once you're there, is the deal.

[Rachel Lindsay]

But then why are they saying they have fake. Then how does it come with a lease agreement?

[Van L. Jr.]

I'm not so sure what the exact operation here is. Maybe these fake lease agreements are for you to, you know, throw in the face of law enforcement. Or maybe there's somebody that owns so many homes that they don't really know if it's like a big conglomerate or something like that. Maybe the lease agreement, like, keeps them off your back for a little bit. Somebody comes there and they go, well, who are you? And then you give them a fake lease agreement. And that fake lease agreement, like, keeps you in there for a little bit longer. Maybe this isn't somebody that owns a single home or this isn't a single Unit or these are apartment units or whatever. And you need all of this stuff. This could be somebody that works for that apartment unit place. This could be somebody that knows all of this different stuff. I don't know. I wasn't able to contact this person. I want to have this person on and interview them. We are willing to do the interview through the cloud of anonymity. The cloud of anonymity. We're willing to do this interview. Okay. Here's the thing, though. This is what I found. Interesting.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Quick research shows a fake lease agreement is illegal. So I don't understand. But keep. But keep going.

[Van L. Jr.]

Okay. I don't know. I think that you're really getting into the legality of this. I think once you're in a place, it's probably illegal to stay there and not leave, but there's also another whole set of laws that protect the rights of. Of tenants over getting kicked out of a place. Okay, so this is the deal. Let's take this out of the legal area and let's have a philosophical discussion about this. And I want everybody here to participate. That's Ashley and that's Donnie. Okay. When I looked at the comments under this post, it was very interesting. People were mad at this lady.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Which one?

[Van L. Jr.]

The lady that's teaching people how to squat.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Okay.

[Van L. Jr.]

People were like, fuck her. This sucks. This is terrible. Teaching people how to squat and take property and evade the law. There's a lot of black people going, oh, man, I would shoot one of y'. All. Blah, blah, blah, blah, stuff like that. And when I say, I mean, she's a black lady. So she had a lot of black followers. And everybody was. And I was like, that's very interesting. Then this started to go viral a little bit. And as more people started to get an understanding of what was actually being said, there were people that were on this other side of it that came in and said housing is a basic human right, and that landlords are jacking up rents all over the country from sea to shining sea. There's a housing shortage, that housing shortage. It creates this huge demand. That demand means that people come in and they raise prices through the roof. And that contributes to homelessness and income instability for people who are paying all their money for rent and all of that stuff. And that the squatters movement, which I then went and did research on, the squatters movement, is actually a pro people movement of people that are seeking to injure landlords and big conglomerates and the Zillows and all of the people who have taken control of American housing and are pricing people out of what they believe to be a basic human right. There are definitely some of these squatters. Maybe not this later.

[Rachel Lindsay]

This lady ain't. She's profiting, she's profiting.

[Van L. Jr.]

But there are definitely some people out there that are trying to put a dent in what they see as being something that's unfair.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Yeah, apparently it's a worldwide movement. Yeah, listen, I don't agree with what this lady is doing. It's illegal. It feels illegal. I mean, like, I mean.

[Van L. Jr.]

Yeah, I mean, you would know better than I would.

[Rachel Lindsay]

I mean, I don't do landlord tenant law, but I'm. But I'm just saying to have to create a fake document is illegal. It's fraudulent to have keys that don't belong to you. And however she accesses them, that's wrong. What she's doing is against the movement. I feel like that you're talking about if the squatters movement exists or not. If it does exists to bring awareness, the political movement feels like, to bring awareness to, you know, inequity in the housing market. I'm for bringing awareness to that because as we talked about what happened in the city of Los Angeles, how landlords were taking advantage of the LA fire victims, like, rent is ridiculous. And I, and while I do believe I understand being a landlord, which is why I'm against what this lady is doing on social media. Teaching people, creating fake leases and, you know, teaching people how to squat in that way. I do think that it is out of control. And so I think that there needs to be some sort of awareness to it. But this right here is not the way it actually goes against the people who are, you know, doing it. It's almost like a sit in. Yeah, the squatters movement feels like a sit in. They're not really trying to live there because, you know, some of them are.

[Van L. Jr.]

Trying to live there.

[Rachel Lindsay]

All right, well, maybe they.

[Van L. Jr.]

The one dude that I watched that he was, he had stayed in the Airbnb and he just stayed in there after the time was up, he goes, I don't have anywhere to go. Like, I don't have anywhere to go. I don't have anywhere to put things.

[Rachel Lindsay]

And that's ridiculous. Housing should be a basic. Right.

[Van L. Jr.]

Times are tough. So this is what, this is the deal. I know a lot of people that have like rental units and stuff like that. I kind of don't care about what happens to.

[Rachel Lindsay]

That's fucked up. No, that's not true. If you had rental property, you would never. No way. Feel that way. Because for some people that.

[Van L. Jr.]

I wish. I wish I did care, but, like.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Well, what if they're doing it by the market, right? Like, what if they're not hiking up the prices? Because that is a career for some people, right? They. They invest, they buy, they. They rent to people. They're doing it by the book, and that's the business. Like, they have a real estate investment business and they're one of the good ones. Like, if it's one of the people taking advantage of it, sure. As we called out those companies and those people's names on this very podcast. But to root against them, like, if I ever rented out my house, please don't root for squatters to come in. Like, don't do that.

[Van L. Jr.]

There's just something. And once again, I know it's.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Cause you're not doing it.

[Van L. Jr.]

Good people that are doing it. But it's just something so interesting about controlling where somebody lives.

[Rachel Lindsay]

How is it controlling? How is it. How is it? If you own a property and you. And the market rent is 2,500amonth, and that is what you charge, how is that controlling?

[Van L. Jr.]

I mean, I've been in it before and got out of it or not. I haven't done it myself, but it's just. It doesn't. I don't know. It. It. It's. I.

[Rachel Lindsay]

It's almost like you're against ownership because there's gotta be some sort of comparison in another something you do own.

[Van L. Jr.]

Okay?

[Rachel Lindsay]

There's gotta be some sort of comparison. You own something and you think that's okay.

[Van L. Jr.]

This is the problem that I have. This is a problem that I have. Like, it's so. Back in the TMZ days, like, Andy comes up to me and he goes, hey, we want to make. We want to make you a manager. I think you'd be a good manager. This was way before they knew that that's a horrible idea, right? It's like, hey, people like Van, whatever would make, like, make Van a manager. I don't want to be in control of when somebody can go see their mama. I don't want to have to make that decision. I don't want to be the person that says, hey, you guys. You guys keep saying, van, you need an assistant. I don't want to tell somebody. I literally don't. I don't. I don't want to. I don't. I get it. I don't want to tell someone, hey, you got to do this or you have to do that. I know that that's a part of it, and that's a part of the way that the country works. But me telling some person after they didn't work as many hours as they had worked at TMZ that they can't go on vacation, it's just. I'm never gonna be in that. I don't wanna be a director.

[Rachel Lindsay]

So you're never gonna be a director?

[Van L. Jr.]

No, no, no, no, no. That's different, though. The reason why I look at that as being different, though, is because having been on set and stuff like that, like, it's such a creative endeavor. A director is a job, and a job that is in. You are in charge of that job. Right, but that's a creative endeavor where we all come together, we do something, and then we move on.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Being a director is managing. When we had Autumn here and you asked her the question of being a director, and she was like, there's so many things that Ryan has to do and oversee. That's. It's managing. I know, but the form of management.

[Van L. Jr.]

I don't disagree, But I think that it's because it's a part of a creative endeavor.

[Rachel Lindsay]

You see it differently.

[Van L. Jr.]

I see it differently because also those jobs don't last forever. And when you are dealing with people that are coming together to make something for three months or for four months or for whatever, like, it's kind of a different thing. There obviously needs to be a hierarchy there so that a vision is created. But, like, I would never have a problem, like, having an apprentice if I was. If I'm writing and having an apprentice, someone that's learning from me, someone. And then that person leaves and goes on and then achieves something else from the time that they've learned from me or whatever, or that's different. That, to me, felt different than someone that was in a spot at TMZ and they was working every single day all year, and they're trying to pull the humanity out of also having a job.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Okay, but that's not every manager position. I just. I just want you to be clear. As directors manage, it's different. Okay?

[Van L. Jr.]

I'm just. To me, it's different. I get what you're saying, but to me, it's different. It's like, that's a different thing than trying to pull your personhood out of a corporate endeavor.

[Rachel Lindsay]

That's tmz.

[Van L. Jr.]

No, no, no, no.

[Rachel Lindsay]

It's not all management.

[Van L. Jr.]

It's not all management. But if you're working at a place where. If you're going to a job every day and look, everyone has to go to a job every day. Everyone has to go to a job every day. I'm not saying that people shouldn't have a job. I have no problem. We have jobs. Everybody has to go to a job every day. It's the way we've oriented society. What I'm saying is essentially the tension that I see in those jobs is someone trying to be as much of a person as they can be while the job is actually trying to make them as much of a worker. Be. I don't want to be in charge of your personhood. I don't want to be the person that you have to come ask to have a good time. I don't want to be the person that says that you have to ask, hey, could I leave a little bit early and go to my kids little league game? Or hey, could I do this? Or hey, could I do that? Or hey, I don't want to be that person.

[Rachel Lindsay]

And I understand that. But even if you're in a creative space, there is. I don't think you can separate the two.

[Van L. Jr.]

I gotta be honest, I see it as different.

[Rachel Lindsay]

I get it.

[Van L. Jr.]

I see it as different. I see it as, I see it as you are a gaffer or a rig or a lighter or something like that. You are first of all very excited to get this job to where you go for three months and you work on this thing and then you come back and you are with your family. I do not see it as being the same thing. I could see it how somebody could see it as being the same thing. I do not see it as being the same thing at all. But having said all of that, in this situation with the landlords. Right. Or however it goes, it's interesting. Like I tend and I don't have to have a huge opinion on this, but if I'm looking at it, I think I'm with the squatters. I think I'm with the squatters. I think I'm with people that are saying, why should I have to pay for a place to live? Like, you know, like why? Like, you know, I mean, I wouldn't do it, but I think I'm with.

[Rachel Lindsay]

The people that say feeding is a basic necessity too. Why should I have to pay for food? You should just, you should just take it.

[Van L. Jr.]

No, you shouldn't just take it. It should be there for you.

[Rachel Lindsay]

They're just taking. Well, but you agree with the squatters, right?

[Van L. Jr.]

Right.

[Rachel Lindsay]

So housing is a big. Is like everybody should be entitled to have some sort of roof over their head with working electricity. And running water and all of that. Squatters are just taking it, Right?

[Van L. Jr.]

So to me, if you. If you're hungry and you walk into a place and you just take the food, I don't have a problem with it.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Listen, just because these things do not personally impact you. I agree with the movement in the sense of bringing awareness to housing inequality. I'm not about taking advantage of people for profit. I'm just not. So I get that this. No, but I am willing to have a conversation with this girl. Cause I'm trying to understand what she's doing. I don't believe she's making any kind of profit.

[Van L. Jr.]

But once again, though, when you say. And obviously she seems to be sort of.

[Rachel Lindsay]

She's full of shit. She's taking your money and you want.

[Van L. Jr.]

To talk to her.

[Rachel Lindsay]

She's taking. Let me tell you what she is. She's taking your money and she's saying, finn, for your. You're on your own.

[Van L. Jr.]

Oh, well, she's letting you know that.

[Rachel Lindsay]

She'S on the run.

[Van L. Jr.]

But if we get into the. So let me say something also.

[Rachel Lindsay]

We keep saying she could be a man.

[Van L. Jr.]

Could be a man. Well, we saying she. Because Jasmine said there's a girl on why you bring the gender wars into things. Jasmine said that there's a girl that does it. So this is the reason why we're saying she. First of all, I want to go back to something real quick. And it's like there's two things. Number one, I think sometimes I tend to look at things not as they are, but as I would want them to be.

[Rachel Lindsay]

That's fair.

[Van L. Jr.]

And so you do. This doesn't personally affect me. Cause like, I don't. I know. I know people, rental properties and all of that, stuff like that, but.

[Rachel Lindsay]

I.

[Van L. Jr.]

Also think that that's kind of a cop out.

[Rachel Lindsay]

On your end.

[Van L. Jr.]

No, because I think that if you endeavor into being a landlord or a person that controls things that are basic to people, you should have to deal with the perception that comes along with that. Like if you are. That we all. We have landlords. If you gonna be the person that tells somebody they can't go home to see their mama, well, then, fuck it. That's me. If you're gonna be the person that tells somebody. Hey.

[Rachel Lindsay]

That the rent is due, that their.

[Van L. Jr.]

Rent is due, that their rent is.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Due in the street. Ashley. Ashley.

[Van L. Jr.]

What do y' all think?

[Donnie]

I think the lady that posted this is honestly putting people at risk of getting shot. If you're looking at the comments, there's enough Comments that are like saying that I would shoot this person if I was a landlord. So I. If she's being honest, I mean, she needs to add that as one of the outcomes that could happen, you could face bodily harm.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Some will die.

[Van L. Jr.]

Some will die. Some will die. Is very important. But think about that, though. Think about the fact that you're willing. That capitalism has these people in the comments in such a chokehold. In such a chokehold that they will be willing to kill a human being before they will house them.

[Donnie]

We're talking about America. This is the most American thing ever. You're talking about gun violence, capitalism.

[Van L. Jr.]

I get it. But think about that especially. And I'm looking at these people, and these are black people. These are black people that are saying that they would be so enraged by this that they would kill someone. I mean, that's an interesting. That's why I thought this was an interesting conversation. By the way. Everybody in here is like, either you're on the side of the landlords or you're on the side of the people that are breaking the law and staying on the landlord's property. I get it. I am not in any way ever saying that I haven't been like, hey, get off our property. I have been. I definitely have been. We had property back there and it was some skinheads that lived. We've talked about this before. And you would see people. Well, I've never been like, hey, this. This space is mine. Or I've never been like, I'm as American as anyone else. We just talked about me flying on the jet and how I like to fly on the jet.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Like, some people don't even know the term lie flat.

[Van L. Jr.]

There's no purity here. But what I'm saying is this. Cause if I. And if I would have paid for the lie. Flat seat. And they would have been like, hey, you gotta go to Comfort Plus, I would be super fucking mad. I'm acknowledging the hypocrisy, but when I think about people taking advantage of people that own a bunch of homes or a bunch of apartment buildings or a bunch of rental houses that are kind of like, I don't know why I side with the squatters. I don't know why I reflexively side with them.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Because this doesn't impact you. And you want to be with the people you want to be like, how.

[Van L. Jr.]

Would it impact me, though? Like, you keep saying, it doesn't impact.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Me because you don't own. You don't own. You don't own property that you rent. You don't own rental property.

[Van L. Jr.]

Right.

[Rachel Lindsay]

And you would feel different.

[Van L. Jr.]

I owned that before and it kind of made me uncomfortable.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Well, that's fine. And that's why you don't own it. But if you did own it, own rental property. And this is how you provided for yourself or for your family.

[Van L. Jr.]

You would feel by controlling where somebody else lives.

[Rachel Lindsay]

That's how you. You keep you. You love the word control.

[Van L. Jr.]

How.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Why don't you look at it as. I'm giving them an opportunity to pay me to live to pay market value and not go move across the street where they're jacking up the prices. $1,000 extra. I'm a good. Because you have slum lords, Right?

[Van L. Jr.]

That's true.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Good landlord.

[Van L. Jr.]

People think I'm being funny, but you're talking about. Basically, this is the conversation. Anything. Anything that's done ethically, you can do stuff ethically. You can be an ethical landlord. You can be an ethical. Even things that other people look at. You can be an ethical pornographer. Can you be an ethical police?

[Rachel Lindsay]

I hope so.

[Van L. Jr.]

I'm asking.

[Rachel Lindsay]

I would hope that you could be an ethical police. Police person.

[Donald Trump]

Yeah.

[Van L. Jr.]

It's interesting. Ashley, we haven't heard from you. What do you think?

[Rachel Lindsay]

I don't know. I've been thinking about this for a bit now because I. I don't like the idea of someone stealing, but I also hate the idea of slumlords and landowners and stuff like that, so. But like it. Rachel's right. It's just like, this is like a lot of risk. Is this person who's telling people about how to do this also taking this kind of risk? Or are they just instructing people? It always feels like, I don't know. This is just. It's too complicated. Maybe I'm too young. I don't know.

[Van L. Jr.]

This is. God damn it, Ash. This is. So I can agree with you guys that the lady that made this is. Because this was only my entrance into this. The lady that made this is. She's trying to come up, right? She's a landlord of a different sort. And I hope we get the opportunity to talk to her. She's a landlord of a different sort, right? She's on a come up $1,500. She's a landlord of a different sort. However, once I got more into the movement of the squatters, I was like. And everybody's gonna say it would be different, Van if somebody came and squatted in your home, which happens to people. Right. I've seen guys who are reverse squatters who landlords pay them to go squat in the house of a squatter, and then the squatter actually calls the cops on a person that's in their home when they're squatting. It's funny, but I think the issue is so core and central. We're talking about food and a place to live and all of that stuff. I don't know, man. I don't have it thought out, but, like.

[Rachel Lindsay]

No, you don't.

[Van L. Jr.]

I don't. I don't have it thought out, but just thinking about.

[Rachel Lindsay]

You want to be down with the people. I get it.

[Van L. Jr.]

It's inconvenience in somebody that controls where you live. These are the people that can cut your lights off and cut your water off.

[Rachel Lindsay]

We're going in circles. We gotta go. We gotta go. I apologize, but I do. But if we can't get her. Somebody move from the squatter movement.

[Van L. Jr.]

I wanna talk about this from the movement. I'm interested in this.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Yeah, yeah, let's get them on.

[Van L. Jr.]

Yeah, my bad. I'll. I'm not trying to. Look, I'm not trying to advocate for.

[Rachel Lindsay]

People because they might feel different. They might say, we're doing this for this purpose. You might be impacting the movement in a negative way, the way you're interpreting it. Let's bring somebody on.

[Van L. Jr.]

Yeah, I'm interested. I'm interested in it. I'm interested in the whole squatting. Higher learning, deep dive into squatting. All right, and what is ethical squatting and what is ethical landlording?

[Rachel Lindsay]

Matter of fact, somebody come to the live show. This is a squatter come squat the live show. You don't have a ticket. It's sold out.

[Van L. Jr.]

I wouldn't give a.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Come squat in the show. Sub. Squat in the show so we can have this conversation to the show.

[Van L. Jr.]

Y' all come into the show. I don't give a. All right, all right. Take your de caps off, but do not stop learning. I'm Van L Jr.

[Rachel Lindsay]

I'm Rachel Lindsay. Bye, guys.