Jack Harlow ‘Got Blacker,’ Spring Break in Houston, and an Oscars Recap With ‘The Big Picture’

Summary

Podcast Summary: Higher Learning with Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay

Episode: "Jack Harlow ‘Got Blacker,’ Spring Break in Houston, and an Oscars Recap With ‘The Big Picture’"

Date: March 17, 2026
Hosts: Van Lathan Jr. & Rachel Lindsay
Guests: Amanda Dobbins & Sean Fennessey (The Big Picture)
Length: ~2 hrs

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Episode Overview

This episode dives into three major topics shaping Black culture and the entertainment landscape:

1. A spirited, in-depth Oscars 2026 recap, including groundbreaking wins and behind-the-scenes dynamics.
2. A cultural critique of Jack Harlow’s controversial “got blacker” album rollout and the line between appreciation and imitation in Black music.
3. A look at the wild takeover of Houston as the newest (and oddest) Spring Break destination for Black youth, with nostalgic and comedic reflections from both hosts.

The episode features authentic debate, cultural analysis, laughter, and real talk—plus movie nerd energy courtesy of special guests Amanda Dobbins and Sean Fennessey.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Oscars 2026 Recap: Black Excellence, Industry Dynamics, and "Who Deserved What"

Autumn Durald Arkapaw's Historic Win (Best Cinematography for "Sinners")

• [07:44–11:57]
  • Celebration of Firsts: Autumn becomes the first woman of color to win this award.
  • Rachel: “I audibly... I screamed out when she won.” (07:51)
  • Van: “That is a groundbreaking Academy Award. And I am so happy–if you'd have told me last night that there was one that I had to have, it'd have been that one.” (11:27)
  • Cultural Impact: Emphasis on Autumn showcasing Blackness, technical mastery, and breaking through a "white boys club."
  • Van: “What her contribution was to the movie cannot be overstated. And what Black women's contributions to film behind the scenes... that cannot be overstated.”

Michael B. Jordan as Best Actor: A Defining Moment

• [11:57–18:19]
  • Next-Gen Black Movie Star: Van breaks down why MBJ’s Oscar matters for “the continuance of not just the American movie star, but the Black American movie star.”
  • Van: “The era of Michael B. Jordan... there's a lot of people that have been waiting for that era... When his name is up there, it means quality. Like, we were ready for somebody to step into that.”
  • Earnestness and Community: MBJ’s humility and authenticity highlighted—“You see him with his family around, young actors. That’s the way to do it. And to see it rewarded... it's inspiring.” (16:47)
  • Rachel: “It was like everybody wanted him to win, not just the people voting. You almost felt like you won too...” (17:22)

On What Makes an Oscar "Deserved"

• With the Big Picture Guests, [97:05–98:42]
  • Amanda & Sean unpack how Oscar voters weigh historical “catch-up,” industry relationships, and craft over strict merit:
    • Amanda: “Deserve is subjective and more than a little imperfect.”
    • Sean: “It’s this kind of Jenga tower of history that the Academy has built for itself, ...attempting to catch up with its own mistakes.”
  • Noted issues: Older, whiter Academy voters (though changing), campaign dynamics, and some voters not watching all nominated films.
    • Amanda: “That’s both the fun part and the horror of the Oscars all at once.”

Oscar Night “Split the Baby” - Sinners vs. One Battle After Another

• [113:33–116:54]
  • Despite online “culture war” narratives, the Academy awarded meaningful wins to both “Sinners” (Black historical epic) and “One Battle After Another” (PTA’s immigration drama).
  • Amanda: “We got to have both of those people be rewarded for their wonderful films... it didn’t feel like a participation trophy.” (116:54)

2. The Jack Harlow “Got Blacker” Discourse

Jack’s Neo-Soul Pivot & Twitter’s Roast

• [28:05–39:41]
  • Harlow releases the “Monica” project, dives “deeper into Black music,” and claims, “I got blacker.” Twitter erupts with parody nicknames—January 6th & Park, Ghostface Vanilla, 9th Wonder Bread.
  • Rachel: “It’s the way that he has gone about it that makes us not take it seriously... feels like he’s playing in our faces. So they’re gonna play in his face with names like January 6th and Park.” (32:45)
  • Debate around whether the album title “Monica” is a subtle “my n****” dog-whistle, with Van skeptical but entertained.

Performative Blackness vs. Real Solidarity

• [34:43–39:41]
  • Van explains why Black audiences side-eye white artists who aggressively “try to be Black” instead of just vibing:
    • “There’s always something in it, in fucking over Black people... so we’re always waiting for that person that’s going to realize that and then fuck us over.”
  • Offers unsolicited advice: true cultural giving would look like “the Harlow-Timberlake School of the Arts in the middle of South Baton Rouge—not wearing a koofie and rapping.”
  • Rachel on Mac Miller: “If you really about the artistry... just do it like Mac Miller did.”
  • Van: “When it looks like you’re trying, we always ask: why are you trying so hard? ...Nobody gets it.”

The "Harlow Hall of Fame" (White Artists Who Went 'Too Black')

• [41:12–42:36]
  • The group lists white artists who overstepped—playful but pointed critique.
  • Rachel: “We just want you to be yourself.”

3. LaRussell Lyric Controversy: "Heaven Sent" Line

• [45:25–54:45]
  • Russell drops a lyric lumping historical monsters (Hitler, Epstein, Trump) as “heaven sent,” prompting outrage and discussion about artistic responsibility.
  • Van: “This was a breathtaking, unforced error by LaRussell... If you’re going to challenge people, you also—there’s a threshold there. Now you’re asking them to do more. But if you’re gonna make the smart shit, you gotta be smart too. This is dumb. At least as it is right now.” (61:08)
  • Rachel and younger team members say the surface-level points around universality are troubling, concession that he may explain himself in a finished song or interview.
  • General consensus: artists aiming for “substantive” work must be clear and responsible, especially when invoking figures of immense harm.

4. Houston Spring Break: Chaos and Cultural Shifts

• [62:13–75:39]
  • Houston, oddly, becomes Black Spring Break capital—rodeos shut down, parties spill into the streets, and locals are caught off guard.
  • Rachel: “Houston is not a spring break city... Locals are saying these aren’t spring break age people. You got like 30-year-olds coming down and partying up.” (69:22)
  • Van’s nostalgia for his wild college days vs. sympathy for “the locals just waiting for it to be over.”
  • Lively discussion of past Black party hotspots (Daytona, Galveston, South Padre, Vegas), predicting Houston’s reign will be short-lived.

5. Paramount’s Ownership & Black Creators—Preview for Next Episode

• [76:10–80:59]
  • Van teases a conversation about Paramount’s new ownership (Skydance, Trump-adjacent Ellisons) and whether Black creators should keep working for/with them—even as systemic inequality persists.
  • Philosophical note: real progress means focusing on structures, not just individuals (“mascots for stuff that’s happening”).
  • “I would rather have conversations about what people should be expecting from Paramount... Rather than thinking as soon as they move the bad guy, the game will change. Because that’s not always true.” (79:04)

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Memorable Quotes & Moments

• On Black cultural authenticity in art

  • Van: “A part of being Black is a constant and ever present and eternal look for who is going to betray you... When it looks like you’re trying, we always ask, why are you trying so hard?” (34:43)

• On Michael B. Jordan’s Oscar night

  • Rachel: “You almost felt like you won too, because you were rooting so hard for this person to win.” (17:22)

• On performing Blackness for profit

  • Van: “You know how they never try to be Black? They never try to be Black by going into the hood and giving a million dollars away.” (37:00)
  • Rachel: “If you really about the artistry... just do it like Mac Miller did.” (38:20)

• On Oscars logic of ‘Deserved’

  • Amanda (Big Picture): “Deserve is subjective and more than a little imperfect.” (97:05)
  • Sean: “It’s this Jenga tower of history… constantly attempting to catch up with its own mistakes.” (98:42)

• On Spring Break Houston

  • Rachel: “Houston is not a spring break destination. I repeat, Houston is not a spring break.” (68:56)

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Important Timestamps

• [07:44] — Autumn’s Cinematography Win
• [11:57] — Michael B. Jordan’s Oscar & What it Means for Black Hollywood
• [28:05] — Jack Harlow, “Got Blacker” Album & Twitter Reactions
• [45:25] — LaRussell “Heaven Sent” Lyric Debate
• [62:13] — Houston’s Chaotic Spring Break Takes Center Stage
• [76:10] — Paramount, Trump, and Black Creators: Next Episode Tease
• [83:02] — Sean and Amanda (“The Big Picture”) Join for in-depth Oscars breakdown
• [113:33] — How “Sinners” and “One Battle After Another” Both Made History

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Tone & Style

High-energy, whip-smart, raw, and playful with a strong sense of accountability to Black culture. The hosts call out both industry hypocrisy and intra-community cringe with humor and care. Movie industry analysis is paired with honest, sometimes biting, cultural critique.

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Final Takeaways

This episode of Higher Learning captures the highs of Black Hollywood achievement, the complexity of cultural barriers and authenticity, and the hilarity (and headaches) of shifting party trends. With deep dives, sharp critiques, and personal anecdotes, Van and Rachel—plus their guests—offer an entertaining, meaningful conversation that both celebrates and scrutinizes the culture.

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For a full perspective, see the following major sections:

• [07:44–24:41]: Oscars Recap & Cultural Impact
• [28:05–43:00]: Jack Harlow & The Boundaries of Black Art
• [45:25–62:12]: LaRussell, Art & Responsibility
• [62:13–75:39]: Houston Spring Break Wildness
• [76:10–80:59]: Paramount/Industry Power Analysis
• [83:02–123:01]: Big Picture Award Season Deep Dive

(Ads, intros, and outros omitted for brevity.)

Transcript

[A]

Yo, yo, yo, Thought warriors. What is up? Higher Learning is on. It is I, Van Lathan Jr. So later on in the show, we have Amanda Dobbins and Sean Finessy from the big Picture. It's a conversation about movies. That's their. That's what they say.

[B]

What do you mean? That's what they say when they talk. Oh, that's what they come up when they do the.

[A]

They do an intro and then they do a conversation about movies. Or is it a podcast about movies? I think they say a conversation about movies. We should. We should incorporate that.

[B]

What do you want to say?

[A]

Higher Learning, a conversation about niggas.

[B]

Let's try again. Higher Learning.

[A]

This is. Okay, let's. Let's do it the way they do it. Okay, so.

[B]

So how do they do they come

[A]

on and go, I'm Van Lathan. And then she goes, rachel Lindsay. But you go first and then I'll go second. Go. I'm Amanda. Go.

[B]

I'm Rachel Lindsay.

[A]

I'm Van Lathan. This is Higher Learning, a conversation about niggas.

[B]

No, one more time. I'm Rachel Lindsay.

[A]

I'm Van Lathan. And this is Higher Learning, a conversation about nigga shit. What do you want me to say? That's what we do. Let's do it again.

[B]

Just imagine. Just imagine. Just imagine. This is the first time you've ever heard Higher Learning, Right? We've both been out and about the last couple of weeks. We're like, hey, we do this podcast together. We're co hosts. It's called Higher Learning. You should check it out. Oh, you've never listened to it before? You should check it out. I'm Rachel Lindsay.

[A]

I'm Van Lathan. Can I interest you in the conversation about niggas? No. I'm saying. Okay, this is. Okay, let's do it. I'll do it the way I would have done it. I would like while. I'll do it for people. Do it again.

[B]

Okay. I'm Rachel Lindsay.

[A]

I'm Van Lathan. This is Higher Learning, a diverse, energetic conversation about all the hippest, latest happenings in black culture.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, I got it.

[A]

Amanda and Sean will be on a little bit later. We talked about all of the Academy Awards happenings, the Oscars guys.

[B]

I participated in the conversation. Kind of. Kind of. I give the other perspective. Right. For the casual movie watcher.

[A]

Yeah. No, no, come on.

[B]

Oh, I'm worse than that.

[A]

You're not a casual movie watcher.

[B]

Oh, what am I?

[A]

You are Ghost Sports for adults with

[C]

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[B]

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[C]

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[B]

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[A]

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[D]

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[A]

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[D]

Great for game nights, vacations, just life in general.

[A]

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[B]

As a person who likes no, no. But as a person who likes sports, I know exactly what that means.

[A]

You are Ghost Sports.

[B]

That's tough. That's tough. But I did watch the movies and here's the thing.

[A]

Ghost Sports is funny.

[B]

By the way, what's her name?

[A]

What's her name?

[B]

Who?

[A]

Your friend that you were at the you were at the thing with and you're all into the game and she's

[B]

like, whitney, Whitney, Whitney, Whitney.

[A]

And she's like Ghost Sports Whitney. That's funny.

[B]

Whitney. That's real. But when I did watch, I still feel like even though we don't agree on probably, I mean, we both love Sinners. That's my top movie. But there are movies that I was beautifully surprised about as I watch it. I'm so glad I Did like, Train Dreams isn't one of the most popular, but I really loved that movie. Yeah, I loved Frankenstein too, though.

[A]

Train Dreams was good. Like, I had. I had a. I asked one of my homies back. Cause you know, Train Dreams is a freeing movie. It's a movie that frees you. So I told my homies, like, yo, try to watch Train Dreams. And he brought up something that happened in college. This was Train Dreams. And it was a guy, and we were. You know, my homeboy had a girl in his room. And this is a moment where we realized what kind of. What kind of guys we talk about. Train Dreams. So I'm not gonna mention his name. But my homie was like, I remember somebody had some train Dreams. And I knew exactly who he was talking about. So my homie had a girl in his room, and he was like, you know, can't come in. Cause I got somebody in my room. And my homie went. We standing outside, we talking. He's got the girl. So it's three guys talking. My homie has a girl in his room. I'm talking to him just about some different shit. And another one of our homeboys comes up, and he wants to go in the room and play video games. And I go, nah, nah, nah, nah, he got company. It's like we just chilling. And he goes, oh, who in there? And we say the girl's name in there. And he goes, yo, she bought that train. Action. I remember we looked at him

[B]

and

[A]

this was a very. This was an important moment in my life. This is one of those moments where you look at somebody and you realize what you don't want to be and

[B]

you realize who they are. Yeah.

[A]

I was like, my nigga looked at him. My nigga, he ate the weed. He was like, yo, give him around here. Don't come back.

[B]

That's the only appropriate result.

[A]

Get from around this bitch. Don't come back. And when I said train Dreams, he said, it took him back just like so and so. I'm not gonna say his name.

[B]

Yeah, I mean, he never came back, right?

[A]

He was around.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I was gonna say he was around, but we had to keep him away from. Cause, I don't know.

[B]

Diabolical.

[A]

We had to keep him.

[B]

You can't trust him around women.

[A]

Everybody knows, like, we have to put him in that pocket of, you know, like, we can't have him around. Cause now I can't even trust. I can't even trust everybody to drink around you. Cause I don't know what's going on exactly like, you know what I'm saying? Okay. But it was funny. Cause I said train dreams. And he goes, hey, you know who had train dreams? And I was like, yeah, that nigga.

[B]

That's not what the movie's about, by the way, guys.

[A]

It's not.

[B]

Not even close.

[A]

It has nothing to do with that.

[B]

It's actually sad.

[A]

It's sad. It's beautiful. It's about humanity. It's beautifully shot. Not quite as beautifully as Sinners, though, which.

[B]

I wanna say something. Congratulations to Autumn.

[A]

I' ma give it up for Autumn Daral Arkhipov.

[B]

I audibly. I screamed out when she won.

[A]

It's the.

[B]

It's like first woman, first woman of color Oscar.

[A]

Quick hitters. Donnie get into it. Yep, we already kind of did. And we're going to talk to Amanda and Sean later.

[D]

But the Oscars was last night, One

[A]

battle after another won Best Picture, capping

[D]

the ceremony that also saw the film take home the best adapted screenplay and Best Director. What were yalls reactions to the night

[A]

that One Battle after Another had and that Sinners had? Autumn won for Best Cinematography.

[D]

Michael B. Jordan won Best Actor and

[A]

Ryan Coogler won Best Original Screenplay.

[B]

I was trying to pull up the nominees for cinematography, but I, and I want to kind of correct myself when I was talking to. We were talking to Sean and Amanda and I said Best Supporting Actor, I thought was the most competitive category. I think cinematography was too. I think that. So for her to win, because even when they were listing out the nominees, I thought, man, that was. Oh, that was a. That was beautifully shot. Oh, wow. That show. That was beautifully shot in a completely different way. But, you know, we talked to Autumn, we talked about not just her making history and who she is and what she represents, not just making history, just in the way that the type of camera that she used, the lens that she shot it with, but just the way that she showcased us. Jamie talked about it, Autumn talked about it. It just, it was so. It was above to me, it was so deserving, which. We'll get into that word later, but just. It was right. And I'm happy that they recognized that too.

[A]

So there was a little consternation on behalf of the Autumn hive because in some of the awards leading up to Sinners, excuse me, leading up to the Academy Awards, some of the industry awards for the cinematographers, she was bumping her head a little bit. The asc, which is the organization that the cinematographers are all a part of, did not give Sinners give Autumn the award. And in Some of the prediction markets. She was the favorite the entire time. When I say prediction markets, I'm not talking about fucking cowshe and polymarket. I'm talking about Gold Derby and all that other stuff that we've been like, watching forever on this kind of stuff. She wasn't the favorite going into it. She had been the favorite, but it was breaking late towards one battle after another, and I was worried, you guys. That was an important Academy Award. That was an important Academy Award for anyone who wants to make their living collaborating, lighting, doing the things that make some of these movies that we love into legendary, epic experiences. You cannot overstate, especially for a movie like Sinners, what it meant to have the richness of the characters along with the drama and the intensity. Just what her contribution was to the movie cannot be overstated. And what black women's contributions to film behind the scenes as a part of the creative engine, that cannot be overstated. So to see her up there and to see the grace and the strength in which she's gone through this entire thing in an occupation, a part of the movie making experience that is a boys club, and it's also a white boys club.

[C]

Mm.

[A]

That is a groundbreaking Academy Award. And I am so happy if you'd have told me last night that there was one that I had to have it have been that one.

[D]

Really?

[A]

Yep.

[B]

Really? Well, it seemed like the audience felt the same way. I mean, they understood the history that was being made. She obviously did. Loved seeing her son there, her calling for her son. Loved the speech that she gave about women calling out the women before her. It was great. It always goes.

[A]

Now, if you'd have told me that there was a second one that I wanted, and we'll talk a little bit about this later. Is Michael B. Jordan wins best Actor. Michael B. Jordan wins best Actor. And guys, this is a very, very, very, very important moment in movie history. Let me not say movie history. This is an important moment in the town right now. It's an important moment.

[B]

Why?

[A]

So if you look at the best Actor Academy Awards and the way it's been breaking recently. 25 is Adrien Brody. 24 is Cillian Murphy. 23 is Brendan Frazier. 22 is Will Smith. 21 is Anthony Hopkins. 20 is Joaquin Phoenix. 29. 19 is Rami Malek. 18 is Gary Oldman. 17 is Casey Affleck. Okay, Michael B. Jordan's win is unique in most of these. Maybe not. You can maybe compare it to Casey Affleck a little bit.

[B]

Which. What film was that?

[A]

That was Manchester by the sea. Okay, okay. The town, it's now Michael B. Jordan's town. And a lot of people have been waiting for his ascension to legitimately a standard bearer for the town. As much money as he's put on in the box office coffers, as many movies as he's put out there, there was always this promise of this movie star and this entity that people kept waiting to come out through him and that people wanted in terms of Michael B. Jordan. People wanted it. He's a dead ass, a lister, all of that. But the era of Michael B. Jordan, that era, there's a lot of people that have been waiting for that era. Because in that era is a hope for the continuance of not just the American movie star, but the black American movie star. Because you have to remember Will, Denzel, Cheadle, Sam Jackson to a degree. Right? All of these black male American movie stars. We are looking for the next guy. And that guy has been right there the whole time. We have a fantastic young crop of guys out there. Yeah, fantastic young crop of guys. Fantastic group of performers. There's Sterling K. Brown, there's Amari Hardwick, There's Lakeith Stanfield. There's just. I could continue. There's Kelvin Harrison, one of my favorite site. He's a fantastic.

[B]

He's really good.

[A]

There's so many guys out there. Guys. There's so many guys out there. But I'm saying as far as a guy that like audiences can have a relationship with that you can root for that. His. When his name is up there, it means quality. Like we were ready for somebody to step into that. Last night was a big, big, big, big move for Mike. And being that guy.

[B]

Did you think he was. I know we had the conversation before, specifically after he won for sag.

[A]

I' ma call him Mike.

[B]

Cause I know the N after sag, you normally correct yourself. So now that he won the Oscar. Cause normally you'd be like, no, I'm not going to call him like, that's dick.

[A]

Right?

[B]

That's what you say. That's what you normally say.

[A]

I am rooting for that brother's success more. I'm rooting for his success so much. I just. You guys, you're out here enough and you meet every different type of person. You meet every different type of person. I'm not one of these I hate LA people. I'm not. I'm not one of these people that come out here and met the 15 fakest people in my life. Actually. I'm gonna be real with you. For everybody that says that, I feel like you're meeting people that are projections of yourself that you're coming out here and the people that you are surrounding yourself with. When you talking, number one, you're not tapping in with the actual community and reality of la. But I've been out here for a long time and I've made great friends, I've had great experiences and the shit that I'm with has been real. I haven't found it to be this fake, vapid, insipid cauldron of.

[B]

You've been out here a long time, as you said. I think they always say it takes about five years, three to five years for you to really sift through and find your people. So I think that that is true and part of that is connecting with people who are not necessarily in the industry, because that can be a lot too. But what I was gonna ask you was, were you surprised because we were about Michael winning?

[A]

What I was saying is, of all the people that you meet, you have somebody that has that type of success. And it's just brutally real. Just brutally real brutally. And you see him with his family around, young actors. That's the way to do it. If you can, if you want to, that's the way to do it. And to see it rewarded and to see it work out, it's inspiring.

[B]

Man rewarded. And then the reception from everybody. I might be a ghost sports movie watcher, but I do typically watch award shows and I don't. Maybe you remember better than me. Have you ever seen people react in that way to somebody winning that award that. No, I mean, like, people are happy and respectful and they clap. But it was. I mean. Cause when he hears his name, he looks like he can't even believe it. He's just frozen, of course. And then he turns to his mom, which is really special. But people are out of their seats, they're cheering, they're clapping. And then the videos that even came after, right? You see him with fellow nominees, hugging him, talking to him, pouring life into him from other people who. Actors and actresses who attended. I mean, it just. It was like everybody wanted him to win, not just the people who were voting. It was like everybody. You almost felt like you won too, because you were rooting so hard for this person to win.

[A]

He also got out here really young. A lot of these guys watched him. Everybody has a story with him, talking with him, him being curious, like, shout out to my man Sterling. I got the chance to talk to Sterling. Sterling, another fantastic. These guys have Known each other since they were, like, kids. See, these guys have known each other since they were kids. And they've been hardworking and inquisitive. They've been young. They didn't stub their toe and bumped their head like everybody else. But, you know, at the end of the day, man, fuck what you talking about. The good guys won and that. And whether it's Hollywood or anywhere else, that's dope. I don't know nothing about nobody. Personal life and all of this shit, man. And, you know, we always say this and then some shit, man. The good guys won. Coug, Autumn, Mike. The good guys won. And that's good to see people that are, you know, earnest and sincere, devoted to craft, and come out here and make beautiful things for us to watch. And you see Ryan there with his wife. You see people talking about their children. Generationally, it is just completely antithetical to everything that everyone says that you have to be when you come out here. And I'm trying to tell people, you don't have to be that. And I'm not saying this because I am any paragon of moral clarity or anything like that, but I'm telling you, you do not have to be that. You can come out here and build community. You can build meaningful, lasting relationships and get your art out and connect with people, and it does not have to make you into that thing. That's a choice. And as many times as I hear people say that, it's just not true. That's a choice.

[B]

That's a great point to make, because even without you saying that, people might look at him and not think that. So that's a good point.

[A]

Yeah, it's very true. If you don't have family like some of these guys, like Mike or some of these, it's important to build some. And it's important to gravitate towards safe spaces and people that invest into you, that invest into not just you and their relationship with you from a career standpoint, but you as a person. You know, it's important to be in places where you are protected and where people are actually curious about you. That's one thing. Last thing I'll say about this before, you know, we move on to whatever the fuck Jack Harlow got going on. But, like, the last thing I say about this is if you're going to develop one muscle no matter where you at, try to figure out when someone is legitimately curious about you. Like, legitimately curious. Like somebody that when you're having a conversation with them, you can actually move through the conversation with them, asking questions and investing into who you are. It's not a LA thing, it's not a Miami thing. It's whatever thing. It's a human thing. When someone's actually like, oh, what you got going on? You give them something, they listen to it. You give something to them, they read it. Because those curious people, they're normally curious about everything. Those curious people are the ones that are gonna see something in you that everybody else misses. But it's on you to find them. You can't come out. You can't get mad and blame people. Like when. When someone has a deficiency, like, whatever. You can't be mad that you continue to indulge in it. It's on you. You will build that wherever you go. And I watched the people that built this great ecosystem win last night. And I'm not gonna act like that shit wasn't inspiring and moving for me. Yeah, of course it was. We was at the thing you saw, man.

[B]

Let's talk about the next

[A]

Me and Rachel. Don't talk about the parties that we go to.

[B]

Can I just say, I love that you were outside twice, twice this week.

[A]

I had to get an iv.

[B]

I was talking to you Saturday night and you had no voice. And I loved it. I looked at you and I said, welcome.

[A]

That's the type of shit that you love.

[B]

Welcome. Welcome to the club.

[A]

Your takeaway from the Oscars. I went on a whole rant. Just having fun.

[B]

No, just my takeaway was joy. I enjoyed it. I just have not been that. You know, when I used to cover the Oscars, it felt like a task. This felt like a desire of me. Like I felt invested in a way that I never have before. Maybe it's because it's Sinners. Maybe because, you know, I watch more of the films. I don't know. Maybe it was because the conversation that was surrounding this Oscars, I'm not sure what it was. I mean, it was Sinners. I mean, to be honest, it was sinners, but I just felt so connected to it. And we didn't even talk about the musical performance of I Lied to youo. We didn't even talk about that. Cause there's so many. But even watching that, it was you. Just the fact that they were even able to pull that off in that way on the stage was just absolutely incredible. I haven't seen a musical performance like that for the Academy Awards. Even the In Memoriam was just heartfelt. And, you know, I don't want to say it like this about Forgetting. But we really lost influential actors in the last year. And, you know, a year's a long time. But going through it, I was like, man, they couldn't even cover the. They couldn't even give time to everyone that they placed on the screen. And, of course, there were people that they forgot. But I don't wanna necessarily just focus on the negative. I just mean. Your original question was my takeaways. And it just. It just was a really nice Oscars to watch. Well, I don't know if I feel this way for 2027, but for 2026, it was great.

[A]

I'll say two things, and we'll move on to whatever the fuck Jack Harlow got going on. But number one, I wanna say this. On the In Memoriam situation. Malcolm Jamal Warner was not a part of the In Memoriam situation.

[B]

Can I ask a question about that?

[A]

Go for it.

[B]

And neither was James. But is it because they're tv.

[A]

So I don't know. But what I do know is this. We love, remember, Exalt, and will always hold space in our hearts for Malcolm Jamal Warner.

[B]

Of course.

[A]

So Malcolm Jamal Warner was a gentleman, was a scholar, was a multifaceted performer, an activist man, a poet, a rapper, an actor, just all kinds of. And there is nothing that anyone can do to remove the inspiration, the place, the space that Malcolm Jamal Warner has in our hearts. And we will remember him forever, of course. So that is what it is with sinners is interesting. Somebody hit me up and was like, yo, why is everybody making such a big deal about sinners? What this person was really trying to

[B]

say was, what did the person look like?

[A]

You know what I'm talking about, man?

[B]

Okay, well, I just. We want to clarify. I want to understand the conversation.

[A]

What's the deal about sinners? And look, I thought about this. Imagine that there's, like, this gigantic party. It's the greatest party in town. It's really a party that could, like, make your career. But you're only invited to that party once every three or four years. Now there's a whole conversation about whether or not you will continue to go to a party that you're only invited to every three or four years. Right? Maybe it's like the Essence Black Women Party or something like that. Like, would you want to go. Would you want to go to that place? Right. Well, that's a separate conversation. The conversation is, when you're there at that place, how do you act? How do you feel? And what you would do is you will remind people that this is a place you should be every year that. Just like every year there is some movie made by some auteur somewhere that captures the heart of this academy. And you know, it's the must see event of the summer, of the spring, of the fall. Just like that happens every single year to all of these different directors. Every single year, there are scores of black directors, writers, actors, filmmakers that are as deserving of that type of adulation anyone else. And it's not a party that we should only be invited to every three years, because every party in America is essentially our party. So there you have it. Don't tell me when to move on. Jada over there telling me to move on. We talking about the Oscars, nigga. Now we gotta talk about what the fuck Jack Harlow got going on. Like, I don't know. We gotta talk about rap. Is rap niggas fucking up? This is what this is. This is rap niggas fucking up. No more Oscars. I was on my soapbox about the

[B]

Academy Awards, and we were talking about culture and what was beautiful and really us. And now you gotta switch to Jack Harlow, who says he got blacker.

[C]

Donnie John saying, you didn't retreat into a whiter genre. In fact, you arguably went deeper into.

[D]

I got black music deeper into blackness. So is that.

[A]

Was that conscious? Was that a little twist on the typical move that white rappers make, which is to retreat back into traditionally white sounds? It certainly made what I already wanted to do even more appealing. Absolutely. Because you like pushing that boundary, that line. I think I love black music. I love the sound of black. Who among us? I love the sound of black music.

[D]

Yeah.

[A]

And of course, I'm hyper aware of the politics of today, that safer landing spot that a lot of my white contemporaries have found. And of course, it appealed to me to do something that I felt like at a time when there's plenty of people expecting me to take some of the routes y' all are taking, to take the route that not only might not be expected, but is also the one I genuinely want to take. So all the stars aligned in that way for me. To be honest, I'm not going to pretend like what you're talking about. I was like, huh, I guess you're right. I knew that there were multiple things appealing about this route. But I also came to the decision, I'm proud to say, off of what feels good in my ear. Donnie, one of y' all pull up a list of some of these.

[B]

I got it.

[A]

You got the list?

[B]

I got it.

[A]

So Jack. So Jack dropped this. It's called Monica. That's the name of it. And I listened to a little bit of it, but they've been on Jackass all weekend long and they got a list of different nicknames for Jack Harlow.

[B]

No, Donnie, pull it up. I thought it was in this tweet that I had.

[A]

Rachel, don't have it. Rachel, what do you think? Did you listen to the. Did you listen to any of the rest of it?

[B]

I did listen to some of it. He has, like, Robert Glasper on it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So if I was listening to it with no words and just the instrumental, it's nice. Like it's the music itself, like it's a vibe. But I could listen to just the instrumental, not the rapping on it. Oh, you want me to. You want me to. You want me to read some of the names?

[A]

These are the names that Twitter has come up with some of them.

[B]

I'll read some of my favorites. Most definitely not. Tough Music, Stole Child White, Thought Uncommon,

[A]

Ghostface, Vanilla, Ghostface, Vanilla ll, Cool Whip, Lint Condition.

[B]

There were so many.

[A]

Neo colonial Soul. Come on, man. 9th Wonder Bread. These are great names. January 6th in park is nuts. Guys, come on, guys. Are we gonna be fair to Jack Harley?

[B]

I didn't see that.

[D]

Hold on.

[A]

Are we gonna be fair to Jack Harlow?

[B]

Guys?

[A]

No, we're not.

[B]

I mean, okay, a lot of people feel like, here's my thing. I'm not gonna say Jack Harlow can't make an R and B album or a neo soul album. Right? You like the music, you wanna do it, fine. It's the way that he has gone about it that makes us not take it seriously. Which is why so many people on the Internet feel like he's playing in our faces. So they're gonna play in his faces with names like January 6th and park the name. Anytime he has to talk about the album, it feels like it gets worse. I almost think this would have been better received if he just would have dropped the album. The COVID art, the kangal hat. The album is. They asked him about that on the same podcast that we just listened to. He says that he almost. It's like a costume. He's like, oh, I wanted to paraphrase. And he's like, I just wanted to wear this hat because it kind of fit. Like, it doesn't make any sense. Then they ask him to name something from a group that. Where the guy only wears kango hats and he couldn't do it. Then they asked him about the name of the album. Monica. Right. Which everyone's Saying it's really my nicker. What, you never heard this? So I guess there was a comedian, a white comedian who's not from America, who thought his friends were saying Monica forever and realized they were saying my nigger. So when you slow it down, that is. It's like a joke.

[A]

Oh, gosh.

[B]

So people. No, everybody is saying this. Are they not? Are they not? Are they not?

[A]

Guys. Okay, guys, you haven't heard this.

[B]

So everyone is saying.

[A]

I haven't heard it.

[B]

Oh, this is a big thing online. So they're saying.

[A]

So y' all think that Jack Harlow. So when he's trying to call some niggas.

[B]

My nigga, my. So they asked him. Kalika thinks that. Thank you. They asked him about it on this. They said, monica, who's she? He says, I just like the name. They said. He's like, you know, I just. I just really like the name Monica. Like, I like the name Adrienne. Right? I love the name Adrienne for a man. That's just great. Jack Harlow is playing around. Okay, who's Monica?

[A]

Okay, so I don't know. I didn't know about this legitimately. About the Monica my nigga thing. Kalika, you knew. Oh, shit. So I didn't know about the. I didn't know about the Monica my nigga thing. I really didn't know.

[B]

A lot of people I didn't know.

[A]

So this is what I'll say. Number one, I think that's a stretch. Okay. Could be true. I'm good for a good conspiracy.

[B]

It's a big coincidence. When you can't explain it, you can't explain it.

[A]

I don't know about that. It is interesting, though. I did ask a question earlier about, like, why he named the album Monica,

[B]

and he said he just likes the name.

[A]

Maybe I've come around to this.

[B]

He says, I just like the name.

[A]

Just like the name.

[B]

And then the answer is, Cause I like the name, Adrian. It just doesn't like the attack. It just feels performative. I don't know if he's. He said he wore the hat as well on it to have the look because he was trying to be controversial. He said that on the podcast. So I got blacker. I think when you hear it in the whole context. Okay, whatever. But even saying that, I don't know if he was trying to be funny, and it failed. It just. It does feel like you're trying to just get people talking. It's just hard. Like, how do you go from whips and chains, I'm vanilla to A Neo Soul album.

[A]

Well, this is what I'll say is the one thing about black culture that I think a lot of people that I know appreciate most about it is that it's effortless. The one thing it's effortless. Black culture is effortless. It's something that comes out of you because of an investment into you. So if you look like you're trying to. You look like an agent. Cause what. I try to say this all the time, and I'm just. I'm so much less articulate than I think that I am. I listen to the podcast. I'm like, man, you sound like a fucking idiot. But I'm trying to tell people that a part of being black is a constant and ever present and eternal look for who is going to betray you. So search for the agent. It's an agent search. It's an agent search. There's always something in it, in fucking over black people. Like, that's a way to get ahead in America, is fucking over black working people. And so we're always waiting for that person that's going to realize that and then fuck us over. And the way to spot these agents sometimes is through the people that's trying to be black. Hey, look at this.

[B]

Is that what you do?

[A]

Look at me. Look at me. And then we like, hey, nigga, it don't really look like you learn that shit on your own. It look like you fucking learned that shit off a dvd. What about this one? Like, we always looking for the agent. We always looking for the person that is trying to. And when it looks like you're trying, we always ask, why are you trying so hard? Like, what is making you try so hard? We already fucked with you. Like, what's the point of this? And nobody gets it. Like, nobody gets it. That's the thing about the white boys that be in these situations is they just don't get it. Hey, Justin Timberlake. We already decided that we like you. You don't have to do the other thing. You don't have to go dc beat your feet and then dance. You don't have to do that. We already decided that we liked you, Jack Harlow. We already decided that for most part, we was cool with it.

[B]

Maybe they just wanna see how far they can go.

[A]

I just. My thing is. Then just do it right? Then just do it. You know how they never try to be black? This is how they never try to be black. They never try to be black by going into the hood and giving a million dollars away. Like, you know what I'M saying they never try to be black in the ways that are actually beneficial to black people. I never.

[B]

Well, that's because it' about that. It's about self serving.

[A]

But what I'm saying is, I don't even.

[B]

It is self serving.

[A]

So it's like if you. For the next white performer that's gonna decide, they go vacation. If you really want to do it the slick way, I'm gonna give you game. Go and start the Harlow Timberlake School of the Arts in the middle of South Baton Rouge. I'm talking about pour into it. Do a LeBron James I promise school. Give Jason Wilson from the Cave of Adullah, raise $2 million for him build. Like, go do something. And then niggas would be like, all right, at least we got something out of it. But that's never the way. It's always like, I decided that now I want to wear a koofie and

[B]

rap for people like him.

[D]

Right?

[B]

Like, that's not Mac Miller.

[A]

No, but Mac never tried that, though.

[B]

Exactly. That's the thing. So I. You don't even. I get your point. Right. It would be great if, yes, they did something that was beneficial to the community. But if you're really about the artistry, if it really. If the music, as he says on this podcast, if the music really means something to you, you connect with it and you studied it and you believe it and you feel it, we'll just. Just do it like Mac Miller did.

[A]

It's plenty of people.

[B]

This is.

[C]

I know.

[B]

I'm just giving you an example. But what Jack Harlow is doing is an example of it feeling performative. It feels disingenuous. When you are questioned about the particulars of this album and this sound, you really don't answer it well. So for you to want to step out because you were so moved by this genre or this type of music and what it means and what it represents and the intimacy of it, why can you not express that to me? If I poured my heart and soul into an album and I'm stepping into something new, and this is a career decision or a life decision that I'm making, I've really thought about this, and I would be able to verbalize this because this me is so meaningful to me. Jack Harlow's questions, I mean, answers to the question on this. They're even laughing at him as they're talking to him about, why'd you name it like this? Why are you wearing this hat? Why are you. It feels like a joke.

[A]

Well, I do think Also though, that it is. I think what Jack Harlow is doing is performative for a good hearted reason. I do. I think that there's been a lot of talk, a lot of talk about the vacationers. We talked about this, about the.

[B]

Yeah, a lot of people are talking about that now.

[A]

There's been a lot of talk about that. And I think that this was Jack Harlow's way of saying, I'm not gonna do that. Right. I think that Jack Harlow has looked at other white performers that have had these dalliances with black culture and got they shit up and then jumped out of the culture and goes, you never. And he went, you never have to worry about me doing that. Here's the thing though, that can't be your reason. We will never. At least for me, I'm not going to speak for everybody. I will never worry about you doing that. If you don't make it a thing. If you. Even if you decide that you want to go be Nirvana, I'm not going to trip until you go, you know what? Hip hop fucking sucks. Which is what the white Vacationers pyramid was about. Now we have to make a new list. I don't have it ready yet. Of the Harlow hall of Fame. People that went so black that we was like, whoa,

[B]

who's another person in this? Oh, well, you said, I got a list, okay.

[A]

Like the Harlow hall of Fame of people that went. We went, all right now, nigga. Cause what people don't understand is we move on to LA Russell. Once again, like with people, like, what people don't understand is when it's a white boy in the car most of the time. We just want you to be a white boy.

[B]

Yeah, we want you to be yourself.

[A]

Just be a white boy. No, no, no, I'm not around no white boy. I don't do the wigger thing.

[B]

Just be a white boy. I didn't say that. I said be yourself.

[A]

Okay, so just be a white boy. Okay, this is what, like tell us about Arnold Palmer. You know what I'm saying? That's what you. The diversity is in that. Like, you know, like we had Grace Spiller in the neighborhood. Gray used to come around. Gray never tried to be. Gray would come over. Gray was like, we go play basketball. Gray would be like, yeah, yeah, yeah, I can't hoop with you guys right now. I gotta go play tennis. We'd be like, what? Can we play tennis? And he's like, yeah, sure, sure. I don't have. A lot of. You guys can use the same bracket. And we playing Tennis. And we like, what the fuck? This is fun. Just. We fucked with Gray. Gray. We fucked with him. Gray told his mom one time to get out of his face. I was like, no.

[B]

And what did she do? She got out of his face.

[A]

She got out of his face. I'll come back when you've calmed down a little bit. Yeah, yeah, come back. Come back. Cause you weren't here. I'm like, great, chill. No, don't tell me to chill. She needs to hear about herself. I'm like, whoa, what the fuck is ho. You know. Anyway, Ray wasn't gonna get me fucked up.

[B]

Okay. Well, I'm looking forward to the. The new pyramid.

[A]

The Harlow hall of Fame.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

The ones that we like.

[B]

I'd like to take some guesses before you announce it, but we'll think. No, not right now. No, no, not right now. I wanna think about it.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, it's people. It's a couple of English motherfuckers on that list too.

[B]

Oh, that went too far.

[A]

Yeah. Now it's not that they go too far, but they go. They go too far. It's a couple of English people. Reggae people like you can't. Don't go too.

[D]

I'm not an astronaut.

[B]

I don't need an astronaut.

[A]

Audiences have spoken.

[D]

Project Hail Mary is an awe inspiring masterpiece.

[A]

So I met an alien. If you follow that love with going to the movies, this one will bring you back. Ryan Gosling in the first must see movie of 2026. Project Hail Mary, rated PG13, may be inappropriate for children under 13 only in Peter's Friday. This episode is brought to you by two Good and Company Coffee Creamers. How do you take your coffee? Piping hot ice. Strong, frothy. But if you love rich creamy goodness and delicious flavor in every sip, try two Good and Company Creamers. They're made with farm fresh cream and real milk. Each serving has just 3 grams of sugar, 40% less than the leading coffee creamers. Two good creamers are available in sweet cream, roasted, vanilla and lavender. So which one are you trying first? Find two good creamers at your local retailer in the creamer aisle. Boy. Nigga. A little. So look, we've never talked about the Russell on the podcast before. You guys fuck with the Russell. Yeah, see, this is the thing. So we have Bernard here. Bernard, how old are you? 27. Jade is. Jay was born in the year 2000. Jay told me that. For a second I wanted to. You just sit with it like, that's nuts.

[B]

Yeah, it is.

[A]

Jay was like, Jay was Like, I'm a younger millennial myself.

[B]

Jay, don't say that again.

[A]

I was like, what year were you born? Jay was like, I was born in 2000. I'm like, if you don't get the fuck up out of here with that shit. I was two years into college. I'm really old. For real. Jay was born in the year 2000. That's crazy. Anyway, so y' all like La Russell, right? Had you heard of La Russell before this?

[B]

Oh, I've heard of La Russell. I don't listen to his music like that, though.

[A]

So I'm gonna start out in love before we even have Donnie bring this, and I'm gonna start out in love. La Russell is another person that is an example to me of betting on yourself and doing it right. La Russell got a smile on his face when he rapping. He's rapping about things that matter. He has a deep, deep cultural authenticity that comes from where he comes from in the Bay. You just don't ask around a lot and hear a lot of people that got a negative word to say about the Russell. It's just facts. He'd been doing his thing for a while now, and when he came out, his brand of creation was so intoxicating that so many different people I know in the hip hop space was trying to figure out how they could get closer to him as a creative and as a brand, because he's also branded himself. He gives young artists game on the business. How to get your merch right, how to get your shows right, how to own your music. A lot of people were coming to LaRussell to sign, and he didn't sign until he got the right deal. Donnie. I made this record and I sent it off to my engineer, and he calls me. He said, man, you probably shouldn't put this out. I said, why? What the hell happened? He said, you know you talking about Epstein. It's a lot of shit going on. And I said, thank you for calling me. I'm finna drop this. That's exactly why we need it, because everybody sit and be silent. And the goal of an artist is to express the times and discuss, say all the things that nobody else want to say or know how to say. I'm not perfect, and neither is the President was guiltier than a nigga hiding evidence. You can't be mad that they heated if you don't let them venture. Even the devil was heaven sent. Even Malcolm was heaven sent. Even Martin was heaven sent. Even Kanye was heaven sent. We all heaven sent. Donald too we all haven't sent Epstein, too. We all haven't sent Adolph too. We all have been sent. Even you. We all haven't sent.

[B]

For the people who like him. Jade, Bernard, I'm really interested what you think. Cause I know of him, but I don't know his music like that. Like, I know kind of what he is with the music and the culture and stuff like that and like how he's built his brand, but I don't know his music. So when you hear something like that.

[A]

Jay, come on and get on Rachel's mic. Jay, God damn it. Now you want to be a star, you rapper. What's your rap name? Jay? J.D. jade. This is Jade, everybody. It's actually Jade and Bernard. Come over here.

[B]

Hi, guys.

[A]

Come over. Do it now. You guys are young people and we need you guys to talk about LA Russell.

[C]

I definitely think that it is. He is someone that raps a lot about love, about community, about fairness for all things of that nature.

[B]

So it makes sense why he was very much like, everyone belongs in heaven,

[C]

everyone's a child of God, all of these things. However, it was very surprising to hear

[D]

him

[B]

come up with these lyrics. And I don't know, I think it's kind of. I don't think he said it right. I don't think what he was saying was. What do you think he was trying to say? Cause does this change your opinion about who La Russell is as an artist? Cause if I had closed my eyes, I would have thought it was Kanye. This sounds like something Kanye would say. I don't know if it would have. Like, I don't know.

[C]

I think he's trying to say something that he's not saying.

[B]

Well, I understand that he's trying to

[C]

paint the picture that we are all

[B]

humans at the end of the day, but, like, there are levels to being a human in this life. You know what I mean?

[C]

There are levels to how you operate

[B]

in your life and do certain things. And I don't think the people he's

[C]

talking about deserve that platform whatsoever to be acknowledged in that way.

[B]

That's my opinion.

[A]

Honestly, I'm in love with his brand. I've been trying to replicate his brand

[D]

to low key do for myself.

[A]

Speaking to the mic. Hello, you said, honestly, you what? I like his brand, the weight. I don't really listen to his music, but him as a brand, he literally

[D]

turned his whole image and his whole

[A]

personality into a brand where literally he's traveling. Like, I met him on different occasions when I went to NAMM 2025, 20, 24.

[D]

I met him at the Mateo location.

[A]

Talked to him for a bit, like, sweet. Literally, it's just about his brand, how he carried himself as a man and just how he carried himself as music.

[D]

When I heard that, though, I did close my eyes and thought of Kanye for a second. So that's why I was like, jesus, it's tough. But as a brand, though, man's a genius.

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

No, he was a genius. Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

Appreciate a little something from the kids to understand.

[B]

Because what I did know is, does he say. Like I said, I could close my eyes and think was this Kanye is. Is part of his brand. Saying things that are controversial to get people talking. Is that to start a conversation, a discourse? I don't know. That's the kind of thing that I was trying to understand. What I did understand is he does not know the definition of heaven sent.

[A]

Right. Well, this is. So this is a thing. So he did come out a couple of weeks ago. And this is. There's never anything in a vacuum. Some of the hate that La Russell is getting right now. And guys, there is no two ways about it. Yeah, this was a breathtaking unforced error from LaRussell. There's no way to say that other than that, love the young brother, what he's doing. This is a breathtaking unforced error by LaRussell. Just. It is what it is. Okay, But a lot of people on his ass about this a little bit. Because sometime before this, was it like last month or something like that, he said Lil Wayne doesn't rap about anything. Lil Wayne doesn't have any raps of substance. And here's the thing about that. Do you know why a lot of people don't rap about anything of substance? Do you know why?

[B]

Why?

[A]

Because it's hard. It's difficult. I saw you doing the money sign. The money sign is true. But the reason why people don't rap about shit of substance is because it's not easy. Because when you're rapping about substance and with substance and with any type of intelligence or wit, you gotta in your raps, make your shit make sense. And if you gonna say that Adolf Hitler and Jeffrey Epstein and Donald Trump are heaven sent, it's gotta go further. If you believe in God, then there's an inherent belief in understanding that God created everyone. Man. We been on that. That's like. That's the thing with some of the rappers that. That aspire to a little bit more. Sometimes they let their reputation do the work that the lyrics should. So if you have the reputation of being a rapper that has substance, sometimes you'll say some shit and the shit is fucking dumb, but because we know you're smart, we go, there must be something more to it. I get that and I understand that. But if we're trying to put Adolf Hitler and Jeffrey Epstein and Donald Trump in the same sentence with Martin Luther King Jr. We gotta go a little deeper. Yeah, okay. Do we understand? Like you said, heaven sent means something that happened. It comes from heaven.

[B]

Well, it's like a blessing. It's like a miracle, right? So that's not what.

[A]

If you say that Jeffrey Epstein was a blessing, brother, we need the equation. You gotta show you that.

[D]

Okay.

[B]

Or if you're saying created from God, like, if that's what you're trying to mean, you need a better explanation from it. And then you need to explain that that's. That they're hellbound.

[A]

Not even that, because I'm not even. With all of that who going to hell shit. That's a thing that's happening in hip hop, because even little Russell did that.

[B]

My point being is that there's an evil. There's a good and an evil. And if you're using a heaven, right? I'm using. The reason I'm saying hell is because I use heaven. So if you're using a heaven, then the other part of it is hell. This is a good. It's good versus evil. That's the only reason I said hell. But I'm like, if that's what you're trying to say, then maybe this is where you should have gone with it.

[A]

You know, this is something that artists try to do a lot as well. They, you know, we've heard this before. Like, people try to. Like, shit happened. Okay. I don't know if people know, But Hitler killed 12 million people in the Holocaust and then started World War II. I say this all the time. 3% of the world's population died in World War II. Just unspeakable atrocities. Just unspeakable atrocities of World War II. Yo, we. It's a deeper conversation, you know, you gotta go deeper is what I would say. You gotta go deeper. And one thing I will also say, I'm not about to OG LaRussell. I doubt that he needs that. But just listen to the people. Listen to your audience here. Like, there's nobody that's. There are some people in that are involved in this conversation that are looking for reasons not to like LA Russell either, because they don't like the independent way that he Moves around or because people look at people that have a sort of positive aura and try to find reasons to poke holes in it. That's not what's happening here. What's happening here is your engineer heard a record and he was like, hey, man, it's not fully baked yet, right? If you want to take a story and go deep about how somebody becomes a monster like Jeffrey Epstein or Donald Trump or. Or Adolf Hitler, I'm here for it. I watch those types of stories all the time. Watch those types of stories all the time. Sometimes they end in tragedy. Unspeakable things. There's a story called. You ever see the boy in the striped pajamas?

[B]

No.

[A]

Be prepared for the ending. But when you. But like, when, like, don't. No, no, no, no, no, no.

[B]

I'm not gonna look up the ending.

[A]

Like, it's like, I read it before I saw it on the screen. Just be prepared for the ending. But things that end in tragedy and show the horrors of something like the Holocaust and concentration camps and all of that stuff, I'm into that. But like, all of that stuff is happening because of Adolf Hitler and his disgusting, antisemitic, racist, crazy notion about world conquest. And so, I don't know, there is a little hubris sometimes in some of our artists that think that it's up to them to explain something to us that we can't see. We submit to that because art is supposed to do that. But when you take that endeavor up, you can't drop the snippet on the top of the snippet, Be pseudo, self righteous, get into the snippet and then come out of it without anything else and not expect people to be like, yo, what the fuck are you talking about? Yeah, but I think it's a learning experience. I think this is a learning experience. Anybody that's looking to turn LaRussell off for this forever, probably never quite turn LaRussell on. Probably never with the type of people that, like, don't like it with somebody. Like I said, when his energy comes around. But, my nigga, that's not gonna happen.

[B]

Let me ask you this. You're right in what you say. Like a person. For me, I never really listened to him, so it doesn't, you know, like, I'm probably gonna keep that same energy. But is it necessary for him to. Cause he gave us a snippet, right? Are you expecting. And this goes for the fans too, y'. All, young', uns, youngins over there.

[A]

Number one is. Number two.

[B]

Are you expecting. Not a statement or apology Before a finished version of the.

[A]

I apologize.

[B]

No, no, no, no. A finished. I said not that. A finished version of the song that explains the snippet. Or are you like, okay with just getting a snippet and he just moves on to the next thing? Like, are you. What would you want from an artist that you respect who said something that's just. You can only really look at it one way.

[A]

Well.

[B]

Cause I know for me how I would necessarily feel. I would be expecting something, but maybe I'm expecting too much. Is it okay that he just does this offensive snippet and makes the next song?

[A]

Well, look, I actually am not offended. I just think it's dumb. But I say dumb things and then I try to come back after I've said something dumb and try to tell people how the dumbness got from conception to brain work out of my mouth.

[B]

But you say you tell people.

[A]

I think that will happen. There's obviously going to be some interview with La Russell at some point somewhere where someone asks him about this and then what he'll explain is what I think we all know, which is everybody is created in the image of God by God. The question is, what does that mean? Everybody is. I think we. Look, I don't want to get. I don't have Kev on stage here to help me to help you with the religious way, but I think we understand that. So remember when Botham John was killed and his people were in there and they were like crying with the lady who had killed him and stuff like that, you know, they were.

[B]

Yeah, it was in Dallas.

[A]

I remember. Right, In Dallas. Okay. It's hard for people. It's hard for people.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And that's one gentleman who was killed in a really, really terrible way. Right. It's hard for people to be like, hey, you know, Dylann Roof walks in to the church and shoots up a bunch of people that are praying with them. And there are people that their faith is so strong that they go, hey, you know what? We have to forgive him. It's what God wants. It's hard. It's hard for people. And it's especially hard when you're talking about someone that led to the death of 3% of the world's population. Or when you are talking about somebody that ran a child sex trafficking ring. What we're trying to figure out is how to identify people like this that exist in our culture and get them the fuck away from us and everybody that's around them.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And starting a conversation about how those two, those people also Are from God. Little timing issue right there.

[B]

And how about the end of it? Him being like, even you are heaven sent. I was like, don't put us in there.

[A]

They put. They put Malcolm X and Martin Luther King Jr. In there.

[B]

Yeah, but then he put us in it.

[A]

Yeah, well, I mean, look, I'm sure I'm straight up. I'm not trying to act. Look, once again, no moralizing. I'm not trying to moralize. I think this was a tactical error. He'll explain it more. But once again, man, when you making these records and these records have substance and you are trying to challenge people, you also are. There's a threshold there. Now you're asking them to do more. Because I see a lot of people with a substantive music do this. They're asking you to do more. But then also they gotta do more. They gotta do more too. It's not just on the audience to be smart. If you gonna make the smart shit, you gotta be smart too. This is dumb. At least as it is right now. This is dumb. Surface level observations that no one can kinda understand why he's doing it. I believe in Russell enough to know that there's more to it. But as it stands right now, could be a learning experience for the young man.

[B]

You hope so.

[A]

Epstein too. Oh, yeah, Houston.

[B]

I'm from Dallas.

[A]

I know, but like you, Houston too, though.

[B]

I am Houston too.

[A]

See, it's Houston.

[B]

I got a lot of people, I got a lot of family in Houston, but I'm not this Houston.

[A]

Donnie, you ever. Houston.

[B]

I'm not this Houston. I don't know what it is. Houston. Houstonians don't know what this is.

[A]

What do you mean?

[B]

Donnie, go ahead.

[D]

Yeah.

[A]

It's spring break and Houston has been

[D]

taken over, it looks like, by spring breakers. For example, the Houston Livestock show on Rodeo closed earlier than it was supposed

[A]

to this weekend after guests started to

[D]

flee from random fights that were popping up all over the place. And I mean, there's a bunch of

[A]

different posts from people who are enjoying

[C]

their time in Houston.

[D]

Houston has trended online this weekend, this week, because people are like overly enjoying themselves.

[A]

They're spring breakers, they're having fun. But, man, how are the Texans reaction to this? Donnie, Donnie, I need you to keep it real for a second, bro, because you. You a nice guy. You the Russell of this podcast.

[B]

Donnie, don't let him do that to you, Donnie.

[D]

Dave, he set me up to fail

[A]

fucking and sucking and doing drugs in Houston. Facts are. Facts are non facts. That's what's happening. Facts are not facts. That's what spring breakers do. That's what spring breakers do. But what people don't understand is they done taking over Houston. It's crazy shit. There was a situation that came out a video of a two man happening in a car in Houston. I saw they fucking in the front seat, they fucking in the back seat. They going crazy. They going crazy in Houston. Houston is the new black spring break

[B]

capitol, and nobody understands it.

[A]

Condoms everywhere.

[B]

Nobody. Nobody understands how this happened. I guess some party promoters, influencers, promoted this. Since spring break has been, you know, the beach, it's kind of over there. They put all the rules in place. It's kind of dead in Miami. Wherever anybody else used to go, somebody designated Houston as the spot. Houston is not a place where you spring break. And it's. It's not. And I guarantee you in 2027, it won't be where people go. None of this made sense. You got the rodeo, which makes sense like that and that. I think there's another week left of the rodeo, but all these out of towners coming in and I'm talking to people in Houston and they're like, we don't know how this happened. Club sections, $2,500 a bottle. That's not Houston. Lines wrapped around the building. House parties, people riding top down in the streets with the. Did you see that video?

[A]

What?

[B]

They're in a. They're in a convertible. And it's like, I don't know, five, six women and they're bent over. I don't know why. It doesn't make any sense. They're bent over the sea. So you just see asses. And people were saying they were bent over because they didn't want their hair to be flying everywhere. It just. It made no sense. I saw Slim Thug's video. He had people like. He couldn't get. He couldn't go move anywhere. People were the twerking on top of cars, doing the splits on top of cars. Show showing up in line in bikinis and there's no beach.

[A]

Right?

[B]

There's. They really thought it's spring break, so we just going to wear spring break attire. But there's no beach to go to. This one in Galveston,

[A]

they got pools.

[B]

The pool is a stretch.

[A]

The pool. They got a pool.

[B]

The pool is a stretch.

[A]

They got a pool.

[B]

They have. They have pools.

[D]

Is.

[B]

This was just a disaster.

[A]

Well, it's not over because let me tell y', all, what's happening April 24 to 26 in Houston is. It goes down all the time when the Mocha Fest be at that. Remember the Mocha Fest videos we got from a couple years ago? Mocha Fest. Crazy, bro. Like, well, like. Like. Like you remember the Mocha Fest?

[B]

No, I've never.

[A]

You don't remember. Y' all don't remember the Mocha Fest from Houston? They got Mocha Fest in, like, three or four different countries, right?

[B]

Never heard of it.

[A]

They got. It's like Mocha Festival in Jamaica. I feel like it's Mocha Fest in. Is it Miami? Oh, whatever. They got Mocha Fest a couple different places. Remember? Y' all remember, like, the Mocha Fest? They was straight up wilding at the Mocha Fest a couple years ago in Houston. We covered it on Higher Learning. We covered it. The Mocha Fest.

[B]

I don't know why.

[A]

So this is. That's not till late April. This is pre Mocha Fest. They just getting ready for the Mocha Fest right now. They call it the Mocha Fest because it's chocolate spilling everywhere. I love it. Like, this is what I say, man. As long as everybody is safe in Houston, let them take Houston over. It's probably good for the economy.

[B]

Is everybody. I mean, we've seen all these fighting videos. And is it? Is it? Is it?

[A]

You know what's funny about me, though? Can I be all the way real? This is how I know that I'm getting old, because I am supporting what's going on in Houston. Okay? But I would not want it to happen here.

[B]

Exactly. Thank you for all my friends in Houston, friends and family. They don't want that anymore.

[A]

I want to keep it all the way real. I'm supporting all the. But I look at these young whippersnappers. I remember one time when we went to Galveston, we was going to see.

[B]

Why? Why did you go to Galveston?

[A]

Look at Jade. Jade Gordon.

[B]

Jade.

[A]

Look at that.

[C]

Jade.

[B]

The water is brown.

[A]

Jade, was you one of the girls in the car?

[B]

Jade.

[A]

Jade. One of the girls in the car.

[B]

Jade, name one thing you like about Galveston.

[A]

She likes the beach party. She liked the beach party. That was the Kappa beach party.

[B]

Kappa beach party did go to the party.

[A]

So we went. We was in Galveston, and we're in Galveston, and we're going into the drugstore, and it's me, Ryan, Ian, Geno, GT Bryant, Rah Rah, Emmett, Peanut. All of them. We going into the drugstore, and we just. We think that we're gonna have a great time in Galveston. So the stuff that we're putting on the counter at the drugstore is Just debauchery. It's a debaucherous haul of stuff, right, that we're putting on the counter at the drugstore. And I remember there was a woman, an older black woman in her mid-40s that was obviously a local. She went, I can't wait till it's over. And she's standing there and we looked and we laughed. She was like, young men, please get your items and get to the drugstore. So I just remember her going, she says, I can't wait till it's over. And I got it. When I was. We were getting in the car, I was looking back at her and she was looking at the car with her glasses down like this, like, I can't wait till these little niggas leave. She probably retired to Galveston. She's like, I can't wait till they leave. And now it's not Galveston anymore, it's Houston.

[B]

Houston is not a spring break destination. I repeat, Houston is not a spring break. No, I'm clearly right. You see what's happening. They've taken over the city in the worst way and it's making all the locals upset and they're not equipped to do it. They're not ready for this because Houston is not a spring break city.

[A]

Interesting situation. We talked about Miami. Miami is cracking down.

[B]

That's why I think that's why they left. What was the spring break place when you were that age? And that's the other thing. Oh, when I say age, that's what the locals are saying. These aren't spring break age people. You got like 30 year olds coming down and partying up. And so like, that's part of the problem. I'm not saying it's not spring breakers, but you're getting a lot of late

[A]

20s, 30s, Lil Russell say they haven't sent down there trying to get with them kids. I mean, look, I don't know what to say. This is funny. I've just never heard this much complaining about it. Houston seems to be fighting back.

[B]

It's not.

[A]

This is not the place Miami has. Miami is a different city than it used to be. So Miami kind of fancies itself an upscale version of a sleazy party town, which is essentially what Miami is. Shout out to my Miami people. That's not all Miami is. I like to go to the other parts of Miami. There's a ton of real culture in Miami. But Miami wants you to come and spend thousands of thousands of thousands of dollars there at the one hotel and, and going crazy in the upscale restaurants and all of that stuff. They want you to. But they don't want the kids from Western Baptist State to come down there and fuck the city up for a whole weekend. They over that. Yeah, but Houston is getting that now. Mocafest.

[B]

Where will they go next?

[D]

I see.

[B]

I'm looking it up. I see it's in Jamaica. You're right.

[A]

So this is what Mr. Holbein says.

[B]

Who?

[A]

The rodeo needs to come up with some new rules. No teenagers allow without parents. $50 at the the door. That'll keep a lot of nonsense out. The rodeo is walking distance for most of these teams. So it's going to be chaos. All parties involved were arrested. This is apparently a fight that happened at the rodeo. They going crazy. So, you know, it is what it is. It is what it is. We about to talk. What?

[B]

They're not going to be at Houston next year. And I'm wondering where they're going to be. Because it always changes. Right? That's why I was asking you, like, where was the place that y' all went for spring? It was South Padre, I Island, Texas.

[A]

So these were the big places. It was El Cancun.

[B]

Yeah, Cancun, too.

[A]

Like a lawless.

[B]

Cause you didn't have to have a passport to go then. You could just go.

[A]

Cancun was pure debauchery. Just pure debauchery. We'd go to Cancun, South Padre Island, Texas, Galveston. But also at that time. Cause I wasn't in the Friednik era.

[B]

Oh, Daytona.

[A]

Daytona. Daytona was going crazy.

[B]

That was ahead of my time.

[A]

Daytona was nuts.

[B]

So think of all the places that you named. And then add Houston. It just don't make any sense.

[A]

Well, I mean, we'll see what happens.

[B]

I get a lake.

[A]

Mocha Fest, April 24, 2026. Now this is what I feel like it's gonna happen in Mocha Fest. Now Mocafest. Gotta up the ante. All the Mocha Fest people listening to me. These kids. Cause Mocha Fest is for everyone. These kids think that they could party harder than y', all, man. Show them. Man. Show them. Like, leave Houston in shambles, man. Houston owe us more than y'.

[D]

All.

[A]

Jeez, I fuck with Houston.

[B]

Do you? Cause you just told everybody to tear up the city.

[A]

New spring break place. Oh, you know that. You know what? I would say we should try this in Baton Rouge.

[B]

What would they do?

[A]

So, I mean, there's. Geno had an idea one time in Baton Rouge. He was like, I think Baton Rouge needs an adult pool. And Gino was gonna he's gonna. He was gonna do the adult pool. This was Geno's idea. He had this idea. He wanted to bring, like, a pool, like, in Vegas or, like, Baton Rouge.

[B]

So, like, what was it called? What did we always used to go on Sundays in Vegas? What was that place called?

[A]

Was it rehab?

[B]

Rehab? Yeah. Yeah. So he wants, like, a rehab. So he wants. Oh, just have so much fun.

[A]

Disgusting. You like that shit Was the spot.

[B]

Because that was. That was Memorial Day weekend. So Memorial Day weekend used to be the place. Like, it's like, where were you? Memorial. It used to be Vegas. Everybody went Vegas. Then it was Punta Cana.

[A]

Hold on, man.

[B]

And then it was. I don't know where the third.

[A]

I'm gonna be real, man. Like, I used to say something.

[B]

It was so much fun.

[A]

It was. I used to have a whole category of people that thought rehab was, like, dope. That tells me a lot that you love rehab. Like, that.

[B]

I went once a year, and it was so much fun in that pool. Oh, I didn't get in a pool. Are you kidding me? I was in a section.

[A]

You're in a section.

[B]

I would never get in the pool. I don't get a pool. I don't get. See that adult pool stuff that Gino wants to do.

[A]

Highly, highly, highly.

[B]

That adult. That adult pool.

[A]

We have this highly wild.

[B]

Not Memorial weekend.

[A]

Yes, it was.

[B]

It was super white. Cause you weren't there.

[A]

I've been before.

[B]

Let me tell you why it wasn't. Let me tell you why it wasn't super white Memorial weekend. Because the reason was. Is this was. I'm telling you what black. How black people used to move. Everybody went to Vegas. It was. The football was over. It was the off season. Everybody went from different cities. They went to Vegas. Then it became. It was. Maybe it was Miami. Vegas, then Punta Cana. It was very black rehab. Very black.

[A]

So you like rehab. Okay, but, like. So go to Baton Rouge. You guys try this in Baton Rouge. Just everybody go to Baton Rouge and have. And the headline will be 40 dead.

[B]

It's interesting. You want to talk about me? That's crazy.

[A]

But Gino wants an adult pool like you guys. The next spring break destination is Houston. Now go to Baton Rouge. The mayor will come out on Sunday and be like, there was unprecedented carnage this week. 40 dead. Like, everybody gonna believe. You're gonna go down there with a chain. You're not coming back with the chain. All the rental cars, everything. Every. It's just like. It would be a massacre of slaughter.

[B]

Well, then let's not. Let's not.

[A]

Nah, have them go down there. Goose are economy for the niggas across the track. South Baton Rouge, Zion City, Ghost Town, Nigerville. All of them places. Goose R economy go down there. Do it in Baton Rouge next.

[B]

Well, why don't you and Gino plan it, huh? You and Gino can.

[A]

Plano would be Geno not gonna be involved in that. Geno is the most stop the violence nigga that's ever lived. I can't believe it.

[B]

Of course y' all wouldn't be inciting violence, but just planning something. A weekend to boost the economy of Baton Rouge.

[A]

Like a spring break. Okay, I'm with that. I'm with that. Have Mama cater the whole thing. Cause you know, you can just ask Mama to cook whenever you want, and then she'll cook for you. That's her job, to cook for people that ask her to cook.

[B]

I'm sorry, did you not enjoy it? And invite more people to the house? Thank you. You're welcome.

[A]

Okay, we have to go. We have to go. I do wanna talk next podcast about what's going on at Paramount. Okay.

[B]

The takeover.

[A]

Well, Paramount is owned by the Ellisons, Skydance, essentially a Trump operation over there, Bari Weiss running things. And yet still, there still seems to be both a mission by Paramount

[D]

to

[A]

attract black creators and acquire black projects. And also there doesn't seem to be much reluctance from black creators and big deals in working with Paramount and Skydance.

[B]

You have a list of people that are doing that?

[A]

No, no, no, no, no, no, no. Because this isn't about calling anybody out. That's not what it's about at all.

[B]

That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying for you to say that there seems to be that.

[A]

Do you know, it comes both from what I've seen and what I know. Okay, so that's going to be a deal. Like, for example, if, in fact, Rush Hour is made. Think about this. If Rush Hour is made, directed by Brett Ratner at the behest of Donald Trump, starring Chris Tucker, who is a pretty beloved performer here in the black community. Rush Hour is a franchise that black audiences love and have responded to over the years. Will black people go see Rush Hour? Will there be a robust effort to rebuke the movie because of the genesis of its production and what it actually means? Will, how much? Everything that's going on, war in Iran, gas prices spiking, Epstein files and stuff. Is any of this stuff enough for us to punish any of the bigwigs for it? That are involved.

[B]

I think that also depends on. And we can. I don't want to get into it, but I guess the question is, what does the average consumer know? How much do they know? Do they know about who Brett Ratner is? Do they know about the Paramount stuff? Do they know about. I mean, we'll talk about it on Thursday, but bet. Plus, do they know these things? It's one thing about the war and everything, but do they know about the takeover with cbs? Do they. I. We're so into it and we talk to people in the industry that are in the know, particularly when it comes to this, that I'm very interested in. Does your average consumer. And you said black audience. So I'll say average black consumer know what's happening and understand it. That also plays into it.

[A]

This is why, to me, it is less useful overall to make specific individuals the mascots for stuff that's happening. It feels good for a lot of people to have a direct enemy. Right. It feels good for people to be able to say, this person is fucked up. Cause they did this thing. But what happens when you do that and when you're overly focused on doing that sometimes, to me is that after that person gets their just desserts, you feel like that issue is over. It's not just that I am less. I am hesitant to, like, be on here every pod and just calling out different individuals and all of that stuff. It's not that. It's not so much that. It's that I really don't feel like that's as useful as people think that it is. Because when you do that and that person gets hit, they're gone. But the systemic dysfunction that allowed them to get to where they are persists. So what I would rather do, it's not always the right thing to do. That's why you gotta balance. But what I would rather do is have conversations just about what people should actually be expecting from Paramount, from Skydance, from anything that you support with your dollars. What's realistic to support? What's unrealistic to support? Is it unrealistic to hold an artist or a creative to a standard that whoever they work with should be completely politically pure? Is that unrealistic? Like, what's the realistic ask from people? I would rather have that conversation because it's a conversation that can actually empower people to make decisions rather than them thinking that as soon as they move the bad guy that the game will change. Because that's not always true.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

All right, so we're gonna talk to Amanda Dobbins and Sean Finessy from the Big Picture Podcast Podcast produced by Jack Sanders. Have you heard about me and Jack's thing that we do in the office?

[B]

I haven't.

[A]

You gotta watch the rewatchables. Me and Jack have a call and response that we do. You guys hear about it. Anybody that doesn't know about the relationship that Jack Sanders and I have and the call and response that we do, go watch, I think it's the F1 Rewatchables. Talk about what me and Jack do when we see each other in office. Jack Sanders. That's my guy. Okay. But they're coming on the podcast to talk a little bit more about.

[C]

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[A]

This episode is brought to you by the active cash credit card from Wells Fargo. That's a mouthful, but that's because it packs a lot in. Earn unlimited 2% cash rewards on purchases with it, big or small. So whether it's buying tickets to the game and grabbing a coffee, it earns unlimited 2% cash rewards on purchases. Say it with me. The active cash credit card from Wells Fargo. Be a 2 PERCENTER. Learn more at Wells Fargo.com ActiveCash Terms of Play at the Academy Awards. It's on the other side of this break. The Oscars were last night and it's time for us to talk about the show, about the awards with our friends from the big picture. Guys, this. I've decided this is the most controversial link up since the transatlantic slave trade. Wow.

[B]

Now we have to expound that because that's a big statement. Why is it so controversial?

[A]

Two worlds collide. Look at. I already got red face, Sean. I already did it.

[D]

I've been up for three days straight. Man. This is how you want to start?

[B]

Jesus.

[C]

We knew what we were walking into.

[B]

We did.

[A]

Welcome this awards. First of all, thank you guys so much for joining us. We are so eager to talk about this. There was so much going on. The week felt so different. The show felt so consequential. All of the awards, before we even get into the ins and outs, one battle after another center the winners, the losers, for you guys that cover this stuff on a granular level, what was this season like to y'?

[B]

All?

[C]

Long. Very, very long. And I think there has been a lot of conversation about maybe the Oscars don't need to be quite as late next year going forward as they were this year. That said, Sean and I both loved One Battle After Another and Sinners. And from the perspective of two people who follow this stuff way too much every year, it's rare to like both movies in the running. It's rare that there's not like a true villain or some movie that you can't stand or you think isn't gonna win. So in that sense, it was a nice season of talking about films that we enjoy. And I do also think the awards show itself was a moment's back and forth of honoring a bunch of winners that, for the most part, we thought were deserving.

[A]

There's been a lot of talk about how long the season was. Did that affect anyone other than Timothee Chalamet? It seems like.

[B]

But did it affect him?

[A]

It seems like the length of the season that the more people got their feel of Timothee Chalamet that he kind of fell out of favor a little bit. Am I wrong to say that? It seems like in December he was a clear cut favorite to win best Actor. And as things shook out the longer that they did, the town sort of coalesced around Michael B. Jordan. And that even as much as the performances that we saw on screen played a part in how things shook out Sunday night.

[D]

I think the length of the season actually helped Sinners in a lot of ways. I think that if we had held this show a month ago, I don't know if the groundswell not just for mbj, but for Autumn, Durrell, Darkopa, and I think also Amanda and I got to go to the Director's Guild Awards earlier this year and we talked about it on the show and in that room. It was very similar to what you heard in a lot of the rooms over a lot of the award shows over the last few months, which was an incredible enthusiasm for Sinners that a lot of people coming together person to person and talking about how much they love that movie resulted, I think, in, honestly, what I think is a stronger showing than if the awards were held on January 10. Because there was a lot of time where people got to know that cast. They got to know the people below the line. And you could feel a lot of people talking about a big hit that had a really strong reputation, you know, six Months ago, Amanda has been saying this. It did feel like one battle announced itself very loudly and then has been out front for a very long period of time. So Best picture ultimately was not in question. But, you know, Chalamet, I think did take some arrows over the last month or so, but it did benefit a lot of very worthy winners on the other side. You know, the season always feels too long and when you get into that final two week stretch, it always feels like the. The discourse is a little bit more toxic and people find ways to pit movies against one another no matter what's in contention. But it is rare for a lot of movies that are good that we like to be getting to the top of the mountain. So it wasn't as intense as it has been in years past.

[B]

Yeah, you know, we all know I'm not the movie expert here, which is why I've never been on the big picture, but I did watch the movies this year and I haven't done that since I worked for Extra when covering the carpet and there were so many movies that I liked that I didn't think I would like. Amanda, I know you like Frankenstein. That definitely was one of my. You didn't. I thought you did. No. Oh, I thought you did like it.

[D]

No, no, no.

[B]

You did like it.

[C]

No, I didn't.

[B]

I liked it.

[D]

Okay, but did you?

[C]

That's great. Many people did. And you know, we haven't been representing those voices on the big either, so.

[D]

Welcome. What you're responding to, Rachel, is me giving Amanda shit by saying, I know you loved Frankenstein sarcastically, but having such a deadpan voice that you didn't even know that she does not like the film.

[B]

Because I listened to your latest podcast. I did not hear you talk about it before, but I think the perspective of a person who doesn't watch movies as you guys do, enjoyed it in a different way. Same with Train Dreams. That was probably one of my favorite movies to watch too, because they both caught me by surprise, I guess in. And I was listening to you guys, your latest podcast and I know you do your predictions. What you said that they got a couple of them wrong, but I didn't hear you say which ones you thought. What did you think they got wrong?

[C]

You mean that the Academy gave the wrong.

[B]

The Academy gave the wrong. Which ones did you think they got wrong last night?

[C]

They were lower below the line categories for them for the most part or, you know, non best picture nominees. Documentary I would take back. That went to Mr. Nobody against Putin, which was not my favorite of a Not particularly strong crop of documentaries. The documentary branch in recent years has taken a hard turn or really prioritized serious subjects. And I think all five issues highlighted in the best documentary feature are very worthy and serious and deserve a spotlight. The way that the documentaries in question handle the various issues, it varies. I don't know if I always agreed with the documentarian's approach and that was especially true for Mr. Nobody against Putin. What else were we. Absolutely. I'm still very upset about the best score Oscar. Not that Ludwig Goransson didn't deserve it. I think he did. He's obviously. But he's 41 now, has three Oscars. He and Coogler have a long term partnership. It's very cool. But Daniel Lepatan for Marty supreme was not even nominated and I'm angry about that. That was my favorite score of the year. I think costume could have gone a different way. What am I forgetting?

[D]

Well, Sean Penn won and that was kind of funny because he stopped trying two months ago in the awards race. He showed up to the Golden Globes, he smoked a bunch of cigarettes on camera in a room and he won an award. And actually he didn't win that night. Right. He lost to Stellan Skarsgard and ever since then he has stopped going to award shows despite the fact that he won bafta, the Actor Award and the Academy Award. There are rumors that he was perhaps in Ukraine last night. And I think he's really good in one battle after another. But my preference in that race would have been Benicio Del Toro or Stellan Skarsgard or maybe even Jacob Elordi, so. Or Delroy Lindo for that matter. So, you know, that's not. That wasn't my favorite win of the night. I thought it was very amusing that he just skipped the show entirely, though. I don't know. There were not a lot of bad winners. I mean, as I said on the show last night, Paul Thomas Anderson is my dude. I mean that's just a filmmaker that since I've been a teenager as his movies have meant the world to me. So on a night when his movie triumphs in the way that it did, I just very rarely do I feel so excited about a lot of Oscar outcomes.

[A]

Let's talk about the word deserve. By the way, I have an interesting observation about the Sean Penn situation. I think that the Academy. There's a part of me that feels like the Academy maybe validates its seriousness by awarding him and the fact that he doesn't show up because there are a lot of other award Shows out there that you winning sometimes seems contingent on you playing the game, on you doing all the stuff like coming out there showing face and coming to the award show. Right. They are just saying, straight up, this guy hates us. But it doesn't in any way take away from the fact that we thought his performance was the best for whatever reason. And we're going to give him this award for the best performance in that category, even if he doesn't show up to take it. There are a lot of people that I talked to last night that were annoyed that Sean Penn won and is giving the middle finger to the Academy, but I think they're almost trying to give a middle finger to him. It's like it doesn't matter whether or not you play the game. We thought that you were the best on screen. Here, take your Oscar thoughts about that? Am I looking too deep into it?

[D]

Well, no, I think there's something, some truth to it. I know that other people feel that way who didn't win or didn't get to see a winner give a speech last night. There's a long history of this, the Academy Awards. I mean, Marlon Brando said Sasheen Little feather to accept an award some years ago to make a point about the silliness of the awards. Many people have not shown up and picked up their Oscars. It's not like this is the first time that that's happened. I have been saying this for a couple of months when it started to seem like he was going to win, that there is a certain kind of actor in the Academy who rises to a level no matter what we do or do not know about their personal life, no matter how they perform in the world outside of movies, that they are rubber stamped as one of the greats. And you can say this is something that's happened to Daniel Day Lewis in the last 15 years. It's something that probably happened for Meryl Streep 25 years ago, where they're just. They're at the mountaintop in terms of their craft. Sean Penn, though he may not be very well liked, who is 65 years old, is actually considered one of the generational actors. He is someone who has carried movies and changed movie performance style for some actors, inspired a lot of actors throughout Hollywood and internationally. And so even though he's. He's a weird cat and, and, you know, very, very aggressive in some ways, I think he still commands that respect. And this win is kind of confirmation of that fact.

[C]

It's an interesting performance to be the one performance out of one battle after another that wins because it is a weird performance. It is big and not particularly subtle. And I don't think the character is written in a subtle way. I don't think subtlety is a big part of what's going on through much of the structure of, of one battle after another. But you know, he's walking funny and he's doing a lot of facial tics and you know, the comb and the hair in the elevator. It's very showy, it's very, hey, look over here. I am acting and I, you know, I, to me, really showy. Acting doesn't always read as like the most, you know, serious and principled choice. So it's just kind of funny for me that, that, you know, the Shiny Candy performance won. But there is a history of the Academy being like, wow, that was really a transformation. Can you believe that? That is Sean Penn. Look at, look at what he's doing and look at how much he's doing. There can be a volume quality to the voting.

[D]

You also gotta look at the, just the villain status of that movie and that the Academy loves to award villains. You know, you can go Ruth Gordon in Rosemary's Baby. You can say Anthony Hopkins in Silence of the the Lambs, Heath Ledger in the Dark Knight, Javier Bardem in no country for Old Men. Yeah, I mean the Academy loves villains and they love big, showy, loud, noisy performances in supporting categories. So it was a convergence, I think a very well known person who has a lot of respect, plus the movie that was, that is the strongest best picture contender, plus that villain. So it all came together for him.

[B]

I thought this was one of the most competitive categories for me. Like you listed off all the nominees, I thought either one of them could win and I could make a case for it based on watching the movies. But I do wonder. Cause I remember when I was covering this stuff, it was always when you were reporting you're gonna get actors that you never get before because everybody's going to come to the carpets because they have to play the game and they have to do the interviews and they have to be well liked. And I kind of liked the fact that he didn't do that and he still won. Do you think you call him a generational talent, which I agree. Do you think that maybe we'll see more people do that kind of thing or he only gets away with it because he's Sean Pitt.

[C]

I mean, he already had two Oscars. You know, he was playing with house money and so he had the ability to Be like, I don't really care. No, thanks. I won't show up. And it adds to his mystique.

[D]

I'm gonna start doing that with podcasts, though. Like, if I stop showing up for

[A]

the pods, will they respect me more?

[D]

Think better of me? Yeah, they might enjoy listening more. I. I don't think we'll see this as a trend. I think it was a rare thing that he was able to. To do this. But I have been saying the same thing, Rachel. I thought it was kind of funny that he was like, no, fuck this. Like, he doesn't. He just didn't care.

[A]

Yeah. He threatened to melt down his old Academy Awards.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And use them as bullets for the Ukrainian army. Wow. By the way, he's won. Even when he's won before. Like, to me, mystic river was a big, showy performance. A lot of tears, a lot of, you know, they like that from Sean.

[B]

I love that.

[A]

All right, before we get into the one battle after another, sinners discourse and shout out to the big picture, Reddit, my people over there, they love me.

[D]

Please don't shout them out. Please do not do that.

[A]

They love me, Sean. I'm one of the most popular people ever. On you guys Reddit, before we get into sort of that dynamic. Deserve. We say deserve. Right. Obviously, this is a room full of the most fabulously talented performers in the world. When you guys say deserve, how do you make that equation work in your own heads? What is deserved? Deserved. An Oscar. We talked about it on Higher Learning before. What does that mean?

[C]

Well, it's an argument between us in real time. Every time we talk about this stuff, I think that we are both trying to weigh our individual opinions about the performances in the actual film and what we think is good and bad and how we respond to whether it's acting or cinematography or, you know, screenplay writing. And an example of that is, you know, I personally responded much more to Benicio Del Toro's performance in One Battle After Another, which is the. And it's supposed to be kind of the polar opposite of what Sean Penn is doing. It's a balance, but it's quieter. And then we can't help but put it in the context not just of the year's awards race, but also what Oscar history. We are nerds. We grew up reading Entertainment Weekly. We look at all of these factoids for, like, in our spare time, we care about who the Oscar goes to and what it says about, you know, the history of this made up organization that we are not members of. So what when we're saying deserve. We do, I think, think a little bit about, okay, well, this person doesn't have an Oscar, or this person has, you know, two Oscars, or this is what it would say about whether it's this year of winners, or this is what it will mean for this performance or this movie's history or for this actor's career. Down the line, we're trying to weigh all of the significance of it, but that's all. To say that deserve is subjective and more than a little imperfect one.

[D]

I want to say I'm not a nerd. I'm a very healthy, normal man. And many people are saying this. Yes, I do love the Jets. Sadly, no nerd could ever love the jets, because that requires extraordinary strength. As far as the awards go, this dawned on me last night. Deserve is related to what Amanda was describing around history. And if we think about Paul Thomas Anderson in one battle after another, some people might say, well, this isn't his best movie, right? So why didn't he win for his best movie? Okay, so for me, his best movie is There Will Be Blood, and There Will Be Blood came out in 2007. In 2007, no country for Old Men won. For me, no country for Old Men is not the Coen brothers best movie. I like the movie quite a bit, but to me, I think they should have won realistically, maybe for Fargo, a year when they were nominated. So then you have to go back and say, okay, well, what one in 1996 that was. Was that the English Patient? You know, and so every time you play this game, you can kind of keep pushing further and further back and identify, well, okay, so this filmmaker or this actor didn't quite win for the right movie. And it's this kind of Jenga tower of history that the Academy has built for itself, and it is constantly attempting to catch up with its own mistakes. And those mistakes, through our eyes, are subjective, of course. And some might say, well, last night was a mistake. And some might say, well, last night was deserved and strong wins. But there's no way to ultimately arrive at the correct definition of deserve, because everyone has different relationships to different subjective forms of art. For me, it was very exciting to see Paul Thomas Anderson win. I think he should have won 20 years ago. Somebody else might feel like he should never win and he should go over 14. You know, it's just a podcast between two people nattering at each other about whether or not someone else should have a gold statuette. And we're doing the best we can.

[B]

Yeah, I, I, this might be a, this might be a dumb question. No, no, no. This might be a dumb question. I hesitated to ask because I don't know if it's going to be super obvious. But when you talk about deserved and it being subjective when they are voting for the Oscars, is, is it subjective in how they vote or is there like a. Oh, yeah, a list in like, like I do. I'm sorry if this is like a stupid question, but.

[D]

No, it's a really good question.

[C]

Yeah. Do you, do you mean for the nominations or for the, not the nominations. You're actually voting.

[B]

What they're actually voting for. Is it based, Is it a bias? Is it, like I just said, some people do the interviews and are going around and, and a thousand percent. Or is it like, okay, well then how do you.

[C]

There are a lot of different types of Oscar voters and there are, I think there are people in the Academy who are nerds like us and they watch every film and they take it very seriously. And, you know, they come as a cinephile. There are other people who have actually, unlike myself and Sean, worked in the industry for many years and actually know how to make films and are watching it from a, both from a craft perspective. You know, maybe they're looking for different things in a film and where they've worked with a lot of different people and so they know what the experience is of working with someone or else that, you know. Then there are many people who are either checking out screenings or watching it on the very, very fancy Academy screener app. Cause they're provided with all the nominees and, you know, coming up with their own opinions in a vacuum. Then there are people, even though the Academy instituted a rule this year where you had to like, self testify is what they called it, that you had seen all the movies. There are people who don't watch all the movies. They just click the box and then vote for what they want and, you know, and then they admit that to an anonymous ballot in one of the industry trades, which is another kind of Oscar season tradition that is gross. And we all read them every single year anyway. So there are many different people deciding to them what they think deserving is. And that is both the fun part and the horror of the Oscars all at once. It's a unique blend of people voting and also trying to decide what good is. It's terrible and amazing all at once.

[B]

Yeah, it's horrifying to me that people don't watch every movie and are voting.

[D]

Honestly, I think it's getting better than it was for years and years. One of the reasons why the Academy has come under fire so many times about all kinds of bias is that the Academy was like an old boys club. I mean, it was, it was largely male, largely white, and it was a lot of people who had known each other for a very long period of time voting for their friends or something. That is still true, which is people who charmed them. That there are a lot of events that run over a three or four month period of time. Then you know this. Well, you've been on the trail. You know the deal. If you can make an impression on a person and they're 50, 50 in a race, the person that they like more is going to get the vote. And so being charming is a skill in campaign season that's completely different from did you like or dislike the performance or the craft work in a certain film. It's a popularity contest in some ways. And that's why that Sean Penn conversation that we just had is so interesting, because he just dispensed with the popularity contest and it didn't matter. But that in my understanding and experience of talking to people who vote on these awards for years is very rare. Most of the time it's actually a person, I think, honestly, like Michael B. Jordan, who so many people just really, really like and admire. And when you do that and you combine it with a great performance in a movie people love, that is really the winning formula.

[A]

Yeah, I. The energy behind him winning. We'll talk more about it a little bit later in the show. The energy behind him winning was unlike a lot of things that I've seen before. Like, if anybody out there thinks that the way you come off to people or the impression that people have about you doesn't matter. Michael B. Jordan is destructive of that idea. People love him. He is a guy that carries himself in a very distinct, respectable, likable, human way. And that room last night was ecstatic to see him on the stage. And that's just the thing that still matters. To Sean and Amanda's point. When Two Distant Strangers was going through its Oscar run, one of the companies that we hired during the run told us that it was very important to get DVDs made of the movie to be able to get them out to voters. And we were like, why? They can go watch it on the thing? And they were like, they're not gonna watch it, but if they have a DVD in their hand of your movie, they'll think this movie is important. They'll think this matters. Look, I have something in my hand from the movie. They're not gonna watch the movie. Like, in this category, it's gonna be very important for you to have the best campaign. Give them something to hold in their hands and it'll help you. And I was like, what the fuck that got to do with, like. Like, what happened? And they were like, no, just want to let you know, like, the people that they're not going to end. Then you have a longer short. The people might not watch your movie. So have something that they can have and then that'll help you. All right. Sinners versus One battle after another. I look at these movies. Here we go. Here we go. I look at these movies as really kind of being the same movie. And I think that people don't understand this about me. I think what I think is Sinners is the cultural champion of a very distinct culture, black culture, that sees himself on the screen one battle after another is the cultural champion of sort of the super serious. I don't wanna use the term film, bro, on my friend's podcast here with my podcast and with my friends, but it's the champion of that culture. And I think the thing that was the most interesting about me about this race was watching a cultural battle being fought in the comments and on the Internet that wasn't necessarily being fought either in the town or between the groups of creators that made these movies. They were very, very, very complimentary of one another. However, Sinners being the mascot of obviously the cultural expression that was expressed in the movie and one ballad after another, being the mascot of the PTA head, serious film going 4K Blu Ray, physical media of people.

[C]

Don't lump me in with that.

[A]

Ok? That was interesting to watch because as the conversation got deeper, I feel like it became less about the films. You guys understand what I'm trying to talk about. About. And how did that shake out on Oscar night?

[D]

I mean, it didn't. I think you put your finger on it that. That whatever fight seemed to be happening over the last couple of weeks in particular between these two movies. And you got to consider that most people have not seen either of these movies. They are two of the most popular movies that have been in a serious race for best Picture in Academy history, and certainly in the last 25 years. But even still, a fraction of America and a fraction of the world have seen either of these movies. So when they get nominated and they get into a race like this over a period of months, more people start watching them and you find like the Kind of looky loo. The casual comes in and is like, all right, let me see what all the fuss is about. What is One battle after another? What is Sinners? Are these movies really that good? And then because they've been so hyped and they're in the middle of this very competitive and exciting race, people will immediately come in and be like, here's a problem with this. Here's why this sucks. And so it seems noisier than it is. But you said it, Van, like, in the Academy, that's not what's happening. Some people might hold some of those feelings, but One Battle after Another isn't a film bro movie in the Academy. And film bro movies historically do not do well at the Academy Awards. It is a much different kind of movie than that. I think one of the primary reasons that it did so well is it was a movie that, at least to the voters, felt like it met the moment. And what is expressed on screen is something that we're seeing in the real world right now. And the Academy does like to pat itself on the back and say, to your point earlier, that this is a very relevant award show. It's an award show that reflects something about what's happening in the country and in the world. And that is also true of Sinners, but His Sinners is more of a historical analysis and about the connectivity of culture and power. One Battle After Another is a movie that at times looks documentary esque in terms of, you know, showing how ice operates. And so I think the film had some advantages in that distinct respect in a race, but it was not like a needling. Like, did you get the 4k kind of expression of interest with One Battle after another? Because that's just not how the Academy operates. The people who voted the Academy Awards work in the industry. They make movies, they think about these things differently.

[B]

I think that that's what made this, this awards show this year so exciting. I felt connected to it. I loved the conversation that was being had online. And, you know, when you were like, the look you lose, I was like, oh, that's me. Like the people who, you know, who don't necessarily. This is why we brought them on, so you could actually talk to people who really get it. But I was one of those people and I just felt myself just like completely diving in on the conversation that people were having. And normally when I find this very long award show, it's boring. It's so long. I. From start to finish, I loved it, every bit of it. And you could tell the audience did too. They were cheering. At every anytime Sinners was nominated for something, they announced that they were cheering like crazy. It just felt different. There was a different type of joy. But going back to, I guess, you know, being subjective and the bias. Do you think the cultural conversation that was being had online in any way played into the voting of this? I mean, how could you ignore it? It was everywhere, these two films against one another other.

[C]

We talk a lot about this on the show of just how much of the conversation and how much of specifically the Internet makes it and influences awards voting and how much of the Academy is really online. And I think it's less than we, this generation of individuals who. Who love to post van most of all are. Are online and less than we're consuming things. But more than would have been the case even 10 years ago and 15 years ago, I think what happened in terms of sinners and one battle after another and this, you know, this like, not will they, won't they? But like, who's gonna win? Aspect of it was felt more in the acting and the below the line category and that people maybe started paying more attention to different aspects of the races. Not because people were posting on the Internet, but because, like, the Michael B. Jordan actor award win was so exciting and clicked into place for someone, for so many people, that it not only inspired a lot more Internet chatter, but it did get voters attention as well. And some of that is also just timing, right? That was smack in the middle of Oscar voting. So I think the. I think that the discourse, if you will, is more like a reflection of where voting sentiments are than an influence. But I also. I still think that it, as all Internet discourse does, gets carried to extremes, you know, So I don't really think that it's that. I just don't think Academy voters are posting that much. I don't.

[A]

Yeah, we kind of hated Hamnet was my favorite movie of the year. You guys know I'm Hamlet it up.

[D]

But I shouted you out last night. I said that. You said that.

[A]

Yeah, people, I get it. I loved the movie. Movie touched me. Most people thought that my criticisms of one battle after another were because I was in the bag for sinners. I have to say that is inherently racist. I'm just being for real people. That has never been the case when I was actually taught, when I was on the big Picture, I was like, yo, I love sinners. It's not what I would call a perfect movie. I said that very clearly. But people thought that. I think I fell victim to one battle after another hype. Because I had heard legitimately from everyone that had saw it, that it was the best movie that had come out in 10 years, 15 years, whatever. And when I went to see it, I didn't connect to it in that way. Obviously, a fantastic movie. Right? I didn't connect to it in that way. And I had a problem. I've talked about it. We're not going through that whole fucking thing again. But with.

[D]

What was your problem?

[A]

Shut up. No, you guys are trying to try to get me, Sean. But even after that, after I talked to more creators in the town, they were like, hey, Van, just to let you know, that idea is a little reductive. I thought we had a beautiful conversation about that. But what ended up really happening with the movies is when you look at the way the Oscars shook out is they almost split the baby a little bit. Like there wasn't for one film, this unbelievable runaway. We sweep all the actor categories. We sweep all the. That did not happen last night for either movie. It was almost like the Academy was like, you guys, chill out. Everybody has their place. Even though one battle after another won Best Picture, you got. Am I. Am I off about thinking that?

[D]

No. We said this last night, and I totally agree. I think. I think part of the reason why this ultimately feels like not a very controversial Academy Awards. And frankly, Amanda and I had a lot of fun watching the show, to your point, Rachel, where it was a good show and I felt like the vibe was good. And then doing the podcast afterwards was because we were like, this is a pretty, if not completely balanced outcome. Yeah, a lot of good wins that I think fairly accurately represents the power of these two leading contestants, contenders. And that is something that it does feel like only shook out over the last couple of weeks. And I think in particular, Michael B. Jordan winning and Autumn Durald Arpa winning for cinematography.

[C]

They're awesome.

[D]

Both of which were just great wins and exciting and historic in some ways and deserved from our. From our subjective opinion. Didn't. Didn't make it feel like a steamroll. I did say last night when Cassandra Kulakundis won for the best casting award, I did have a little pit in my stomach that was like, oh, no. I feel like we're getting to like an 8 to 2 or 9 to 1 one battle after another night, you know, where they could win a lot of awards. And that sense of imbalance will then lead to a lot of very vocal frustration about the whiteness of the Academy or the misunderstanding of sinner's power or something along those lines. And that just did not happen. It never came to fruition. And I was really happy about that.

[A]

But.

[C]

But to your point about the balance, I. The Michael B. Jordan moment was electric. The Autumn Dora, the Archbal moment was just. Was moving and really exciting. And also, Ryan Coogler running to get her child is just one of the instant best Oscar moments that I've seen. But for me, the heart of the show were the screenplay categories, which they chose to give out in succession. And so these were both expected wins, but it was adapted. Screenplay went to Paul Thomas Anderson, and that was his first ever Oscar. And five minutes later, original screenplay went to Ryan Coogler, also his first ever Oscar. And you could see both men, who have been on the awards season for six months and very charming and very poised, really overcome and very nervous and very moved. And they each dedicated the award to their children in a very emotional way. And it was. And they were both like historic moments for these two very venerated filmmakers right in a row. And you just, you got a nice little. A nice little package. And it didn't feel, you know, like the soccer participation trophy. It just felt like for a moment, we got to have both of those people be rewarded for their. For their wonderful films. So. Yeah, I'm with Rachel. I really liked watching it.

[B]

I loved it.

[A]

Amanda has to get out of here in five minutes. So I want to get one more question in. Sean, you and I are going to talk about this. The fact, like in the office that now we got 15. I think it's 15 in a row of the original screenplay going to the guy who directed his movie.

[D]

Yeah, glad you brought that up.

[A]

This is. You guys. There are a lot of trembling pins around Hollywood right now. That's nuts. Like that, like that is actually nuts. I will. That's a deep film, bro.

[C]

Well, that also the. That's true. And it represents a change. Original screenplay has also always been the coolest award, in my opinion. Yeah. But it's always, it always goes to, like, my personal favorite filmmaker who is maybe nominated in best picture, best director, but is Sofia Coppola, Tarantino, Jordan, Pete Peele, all the cool people. There is. There is a long history of that being the best award and I going to the best winner. And I guess, you know, in the past 15 years, we. It's definitely a more like auteur driven industry. And so that is. Is what we award right now.

[A]

So I have to get you guys both on this.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Did the Academy send a Message to Timothee Chalamet. Seriously, like, like it. So Marty supreme comes out and the movie is almost entirely in a way that one battle wasn't. Leo was a ghost in this entire deal with this in the way that one battle wasn't, in a way that Sinners even wasn't. Mari supreme was the kinetic energy, the star power, the force of Timothee Chalamet. Almost supposed to be a coronation, guys. And this was one of the most muted presences from a guy in that situation at the awards that I've ever seen. Did the Academy and the town send a message to Timothee Chalamet?

[D]

I think so, but I think it's hard to say they didn't. But I also think he had a steeper hill to climb than people realize because he has emerged in the last seven years as arguably the only true box office movie star of his generation. And that's something that we have said doesn't really happen anymore. Can't really happen anymore. And the thing that I had been saying on the show for years is he needs to open an original movie that he's on the poster of and carry it to great success. And he did it with Marty Supreme. This movie made $200 million worldwide. It's a period piece about ping pong. That's an amazing accomplishment in and of itself. He used his kind of like very New York, swaggering forward personality to get that movie seen and sold. He also talked a lot and did a lot of various interviews and activations and online gimmicks. And in doing so, he did. I know just from talking to people who vote and are in the game, he rankled older people. There's no doubt about it. On top of the fact that it is extremely rare for a 30 year old to win Best Actor. The Academy historically does not award young men. There are some exceptions, but it's not common. They usually make them wait. Leonardo DiCaprio had to wait until he was in his 40s to win for the Revenant. So it's not surprising that he didn't win. I think the message that was sent, and tell me if you disagree with this, felt a little bit more loud in the last two weeks in the aftermath of the ballet and opera controversy, where it felt like everybody was kind of content to make him a punching bag as opposed to just saying, you can't win now. Like, we're actually going to make a point to tell you to stay, stay in your place and keep your mouth shut for another 10 years. And then Maybe we'll let you come back around to our award show. I don't know if you agree with that.

[C]

I do, and I don't think he should. Listen, I want Timmy to keep shining. I think that I just. I loved Marty Supreme. I thought that the promo tour that he did, he got people into theaters to see that movie and it was very clear. He had a box office promo strategy and then he had an Oscars strategy and everyone noticed the shift. And I guess the box office, the Marty of it all, did wrinkle people, as did the character itself, as did the performance. I know many people who didn't like Marty supreme because they couldn't stand that character or they thought that character was a bad guy, which, I mean, he sort of is. I mean, he definitely is one of

[A]

the great shitheads in movie history.

[C]

Yeah, I mean, it's beautiful. So I get it. I agree with Sean that some of it is outsized post voting reaction to those viral comments. And, you know, there's a little bit of a Blake Lively effect where it just does seem like there were a lot of people waiting on the Internet with their opinions and a lot of people waiting for a moment to pile on to the. This person really annoys me. And I have some other things to say. It's a modern Internet phenomenon that is separate from industry feedback. But you're not wrong that the town sent him. The town didn't give him the Oscar. He didn't win.

[A]

That's a big picture, you guys. I'll tell you what. I saw a picture of Sean and he was standing next to Steven Spielberg down there at south by Southwest. And I just imagine what must have been going. Think about the things. It was like you were like a. You were like a little boy, like a young man. Is that the first time you booted up Close Encounters? And you said, you guys, the big picture is the most important movie podcast in the world. And we got him to come on Higher Learning and talk about all of my crazy shit, all of Rachel's crazy shit. Rachel didn't even know who Steven Spielberg was until earlier this morning. So she had no clue. She was like, is that the. Was it Joss? But we thank you guys for joining us until next year.

[B]

Thank you, guys. Yeah, yeah.

[C]

Thank you for having us.

[D]

Love you guys.

[A]

Timmy might be back. Doom 3. Timmy might be back.

[C]

I believe.

[A]

I believe it's Timmy might be back.

[D]

Doom 3.

[C]

He never left me.

[A]

All right, we appreciate you guys joining us on Higher Learning. All right, take theme caps off of do not Stop learning. I'm Van Lathan Jr.

[B]

I'm Rachel Lindlayn.

[A]

Hold on. Before we go. Before we actually do that. Before we go. What you got going on, man? What's up with you?

[B]

What do you mean?

[A]

You know what I'm talking about.

[B]

No, I don't know what you're talking about. I don't think I want to know either.

[A]

What's poppin with you?

[B]

Nothing's popping with me.

[A]

You sure?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

A lot of people have been saying a lot of stuff.

[B]

Nobody's been saying anything. And if they have, I don't know.

[A]

Yeah, you don't know. You don't care.

[B]

It's not that I don't care. I don't know.

[A]

You don't care what people say?

[B]

I'm curious if a lot of people have something to say. I'm curious.

[A]

They've been talking. They've been saying stuff.

[B]

Good or bad.

[A]

They're setting the streets on fire.

[B]

Setting the streets on fire.

[A]

You was out. You made the most. You made the most out of an Oscar week that I think of anyone I know.

[B]

Besides, I was at two of the things you were at. And you worked.

[A]

Yeah, I worked.

[B]

When y' all check van out on cnn.

[A]

Yeah, I did a terrible job. Look, here's the deal. Just know that like a lot of people in these last couple of years, post divorce. Post divorce, people really feel like you didn't really nothing that you did counted before.

[B]

Nah, damn.

[A]

People were like. She like. I literally was talking to someone. This is a real conversation that happened. And they was like, how long Rachel been out here? I'm like, five or six years. It's like five or six years. And he was like, yeah. And then. And then he was like. He was like eating the finger food. He was like, oh, yeah, but that don't count. I was like, why? She was with that white boy before and we ain't really see her. She out here now, though, nigga. I was like. I was like. I was like. And he took a bite. I laughed so hard. I laughed. She was with that white woman. She out here now, though, nigga. I was like, oh, okay.

[B]

I want to know who that was off mic. But do you know what it really. That there is.

[D]

Huh?

[A]

Tough. Go ahead.

[B]

There. There is truth in that, right? There's for sure truth. But the bigger thing is people don't realize I worked for extra. I had no days of. So I never had time to go to any kind of events, any. I worked before I came into the podcast. I'd hit Carpets and junkets after the podcast on the weekends. Normally during awards season, I'm on a carpet. So that's the only time you could really see me. I didn't have the freedom that I do now to go to different events, to see different people. So that's. That's part of it too. So it's kind of right on time. Like right when the divorce happened, I stopped working at Extra so I could just, you know, fly.

[A]

It's funny cause they people and we do gotta go, but people are excited.

[B]

I need you to share more of this with me.

[A]

They are like. They feel like you don't.

[B]

Cause sometimes I'm like vans. Just be talking and you don't share with me.

[A]

They don't. They felt like you didn't fuck with. They felt like you didn't.

[B]

All right, well, I'm here now.

[A]

They feel like you didn't fuck with us at first. And they was.

[B]

That's fair. I was with somebody that wasn't black. I get it.

[A]

Yeah. So now they. But now they see you around. They like what's going on? Like, she, she, she. She's out here. It's funny. Okay. Just making sure.

[B]

But nobody comes and talks to me. That's interesting. They don't come and talk to me. Let's go. I'm Rachel and Lindsay. Hi, guys.

[D]

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