Higher Learning with Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay

Episode: Jasmine Crockett vs. James Talarico, Sherrone Moore Arrested, and Rachel Dating Drug Dealers

Date: December 12, 2025
Host: The Ringer

EPISODE OVERVIEW

Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay tackle the hottest topics in Black culture, politics, and sports. In this episode, they dive deep into:

• The Texas Senate primary showdown between Jasmine Crockett and James Talarico
• The firing and arrest of Michigan head football coach Sherrone Moore
• A candid, often hilarious debate about dating men with criminal pasts—specifically, whether Rachel could date a former drug dealer

The hosts also interview political reporter Mark Caputo about U.S. intervention in Venezuela and the political shifts in Miami, discuss the cultural politics of Black art in Hollywood, and riff on beauty standards, masculinity, and personal transparency.

KEY DISCUSSION POINTS & INSIGHTS

1. Beauty, Cosmetic Surgery, and Masculinity (00:07 – 09:28)

• Rachel’s Procedure Transparency: Rachel explains her recent fat transfer and minor cosmetic surgery, emphasizing her desire to be transparent and normalize talking about work she's had done.
  • “I didn’t want to change the way I look. I just wanted a little…” (03:39)
• Van’s Hair Transplant Journey: Van reciprocates with his own experiences seeking cosmetic changes for himself, aiming for a more youthful hairline—not to show off, but for personal satisfaction.
• Cultural Stigma and Standards: The pair discuss how Black women face different and often harsher scrutiny for cosmetic procedures, contrasting the cultural narratives around BBLs and other surgeries.
  • “Black women are held to a different standard when it comes to plastic surgery?” — Van (04:06)
  • “People are all trying to look the same. … Everyone wanted to look like this filter.” — Rachel (06:11)
• Safety & Transparency: Both agree that if people choose to have cosmetic surgery, it should be done safely and openly.

2. Texas Senate Showdown: Jasmine Crockett vs. James Talarico (10:36 – 38:01)

Announcement & Messaging

• Jasmine Crockett’s Senate Run: After Colin Allred exits, Crockett enters the Texas Senate Democratic primary, facing off against James Talarico.
• Viral vs. Substantive Messaging: The hosts critique how social media shares a Trump-focused, “personality” driven Crockett ad instead of her full, nuanced 41-min announcement.
  • “People haven’t [talked about] her actual announcement … the focus seems to be that minute ad with Donald Trump’s voice.” — Rachel (12:10)
• Texas Democrat Identity: Rachel notes Crockett’s challenge will be proving she’s a Texan’s Democrat, not just a national star, echoing what happened with Beto O’Rourke.
  • “Sometimes that [national attention] seems so loud, you’re not necessarily seeing what’s happening in Texas.” — Rachel (14:52)

Candidates Respond

• James Talarico’s Video: Takes a positive, non-adversarial tone, welcoming Crockett and focusing on his grassroots, Texas-focused campaign.
  • “We have always maintained that we are pro our campaign, not anti anyone else's.” — Talarico (19:05)
• Jasmine Crockett’s Response: She loops back to experience, particularly her legal expertise and direct constituent services.
  • “At this moment in time, for sure, we need someone who knows those very real stories, because I get the phone calls … about people being concerned about their Social Security…” — Crockett (20:27)

Larger Democratic Party Debates

• Style vs. Substance: Van and Rachel debate whether Democrats are learning to center voters’ needs versus focusing on political personalities—using Crockett’s campaign as a case study.
  • “We don’t care about you guys. We care about us.” — Van (26:41)
• Viral Moments vs. Policy Credibility: While Crockett’s viral moments resisting MAGA and Trump get attention, Rachel argues her grassroots Texas work is less seen but more important.
• Primaries as Productive: Van insists primaries can clarify what kind of Democrats will lead, calling for more focus on substantive policy differences and strategy.
  • "The primary is where we get to pose questions...who is of the new school and who is the same thing dressed up in a different suit." — Van (36:19)

Israel/Progressivism Litmus Test

• Israel Policy as Litmus Test: Van asserts that a candidate’s position on Israel/Palestine is now a central test for true progressivism, criticizing centrism and "corporate capture" in Democratic politics.
  • "If, in fact, you view yourself as a progressive ... and you don’t have massive questions and concerns [on Gaza], I don’t think you’re an actual progressive." — Van (34:04)
• Nuance in Labels: Rachel questions branding Crockett a centrist based solely on Israel, saying Texas voters care more about local issues.

3. ACA Subsidies, Health Care, and the Political Stakes (44:40 – 55:11)

• ACA Subsidies Set to Expire: The Senate deadlocks, likely allowing ACA subsidies to lapse, affecting millions' health care.
  • "This will cause pain...20 million people just losing health care...This will be painful." — Van (45:41)
• Blame and Accountability: Van and Rachel discuss whether Democrats can hang this pain on Republicans, as they’ve been unable to win the policy fight.
• Hopelessness Among Voters: The conversation notes that voters see Democrats as unable to protect them from right-wing policies—a source of apathy and disaffection.
  • "We know who the bad guys are, but we don’t have great good guys." — Van (49:08)
• Voter Mobilization Needed: The hosts stress the importance of winning elections and messaging directly to constituents’ needs.
  • “It is your job to win elections.” — Van (54:57)

4. Sherrone Moore Firing and the Racial Politics of Black Football Coaches (57:21 – 75:01)

Sherrone Moore Scandal

• Fired Amid Scandal: Michigan head coach Sherrone Moore was abruptly fired after an inappropriate relationship with a staffer, with legal complications following.
• Alleged Details: Rumors swirl—Moore reportedly ordered Plan B via DoorDash, was exposed, denied the affair, and then crashed out after dismissal.
  • "He had a plan B doordashed to the school. That’s what they say." — Rachel (58:56)
• Mental Health & Masculinity: Discussion turns to the emotional and psychological implosion Moore experienced upon his firing.

Race and Coaching

• Theories on Success: Rachel shares that some Black coaches believe marrying white women helps career advancement—Van pushes back, checking stats.
• Broader Issue: The hosts reflect on Black male success, pitfalls, and public scrutiny, emphasizing that sexual and ethical failings are not strictly a Black issue but are often racialized in media narratives.

5. Interview: Mark Caputo on Venezuela, Miami Politics, and U.S. Policy (76:09 – 109:12)

US-Venezuela Escalation

• US Seizes Oil Tanker: Caputo explains the Trump administration’s aggressive moves against Venezuela, aiming to pressure Maduro out of power.
  • “The Trump operation...had some unfinished business with Nicolas Maduro.” — Mark Caputo (77:25)
• Policy, Sanctions & Realpolitik: The panel discusses whether Maduro can outlast US pressure and whether American patience for intervention will fade before his regime does.
  • "Trump is built for doing the things he wants to do, and he doesn't care about the criticism." — Caputo (91:05)

Miami Mayoral Election

• Eileen Higgins Wins: Miami's first Anglo and first female Democratic mayor in decades triumphs on issues of affordability, corruption, and Trump opposition.
  • "Affordability is number one...South Florida is becoming very, very expensive." — Caputo (97:17)
• Cuban American Republican Loyalty: Caputo surmises that younger Cuban Americans’ loyalty may be shifting due to Trump-era immigration enforcement.
  • “The younger ones...there is just a great amount of displeasure over this.” — Caputo (107:11)

6. Hollywood, Race, and 'Sinners': The Politics of Black Art (110:32 – 125:14)

• Van’s Rant on 'Sinners' Omission from Best-Of Lists:
  • Van expresses anger that the acclaimed film "Sinners"—a “culturally Black, unapologetic” movie—has not made year-end lists by Variety, Rolling Stone, etc., despite box office and critical success.
  • “There are reasons outside of the filmmaking, the acting, and the story. The movie is culturally Black, and it makes absolutely zero apology for it.” — Van (118:43)
• White Critical Gaze: Van describes how Black art is boxed into acceptable forms for white audiences (slavery, drugs, trauma)—when it’s too Black, critics ignore or undervalue it.
  • “If Sinners took place on a plantation, it would all be different...” — Van (117:01)
• Awards Season & Tokenism: Rachel questions if nominations/wins would change Van’s mind; he insists respect and inclusion must be genuine, not tokenistic.
  • "Forget about the Academy Awards...This stuff feels intentional." — Van (114:52)

7. Rachel’s Dating Preferences and Drug Dealer Debate (129:44 – End)

• Can Rachel Date a Man with a Record?: Van playfully interrogates Rachel on what crimes would disqualify a man from romantic consideration—violence and fraud are out, but drug offenses are not deal-breakers.
  • “You could do a drug dealer. Half you. Wow.” — Van (131:42)
• Morality and Rehabilitation: Rachel stands by willingness to date someone who’s changed post-prison; Van makes clear he wouldn’t date anyone in the life.
  • “But if you’re out and you’re done and you’re rehabilitated, I’m not going to judge you…” — Rachel (137:09)
• Humorous Roleplay: Van spins elaborate scenarios about dating a former kingpin, the complexity of "cleaning" drug money, and family pressures, all leading to laughter and mock debate about romance and redemption.
• Listener Call to Action: Van jokingly proposes a "Rachel Pops a Balloon Ex-Con Challenge," inviting listeners with a criminal past who have rehabilitated to share their stories.

MEMORABLE QUOTES & MOMENTS

• "We don’t care about you guys. We care about us.” — Van Lathan Jr. on campaign messaging (26:41)
• “Her biggest challenge: does she come across as a Texas Democrat rather than a national Democrat?” — Rachel Lindsay on Jasmine Crockett (14:52)
• “If you are another Cory Booker … I don’t really give a fuck about you.” — Van on centrist politicians (36:19)
• “I want Sinners and I demand respect.” — Van's passionate defense of Black art (123:00)
• “I could do a drug dealer.” — Rachel Lindsay, matter-of-factly (131:37)
• “Why did you bring me into this? Why didn’t you just do what you need to do, leave me out of it now I know.” — Rachel, on being asked to help "clean" money (137:19)

TIMESTAMPS FOR IMPORTANT SEGMENTS

• 00:07–09:28: Cosmetic surgery, aging, and Black beauty standards
• 10:36–38:01: Jasmine Crockett vs. James Talarico, campaign messaging, and Texas Democratic politics
• 44:40–55:11: ACA subsidies, health care policy, political blame, and voter disaffection
• 57:21–75:01: Sherrone Moore firing, Black masculinity in coaching, and systemic scrutiny
• 76:09–109:12: Interview with Mark Caputo: Venezuela sanctions, Miami’s blue shift, Cuban-American politics
• 110:32–125:14: Van rants about “Sinners” film snub and Hollywood racial politics
• 129:44–138:52: Rachel's dating preferences, playful debate about drug dealer boyfriends, and rehabilitation

TONE & STYLE

The tone is candid, hilarious, no-holds-barred, and unfiltered—balancing deep intellectual engagement (on politics, policy, and culture) with intimate, conversational, and at times comedic moments. Both hosts are honest, introspective, and passionate, making Higher Learning a space for both cultural critique and laughter.

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