Jeffrey Epstein, Nicki Minaj, and the Streets

Summary

Higher Learning with Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay

Episode: Jeffrey Epstein, Nicki Minaj, and the Streets
Date: December 23, 2025
A production of The Ringer

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay dig into several major topics buzzing in Black culture, politics, and sports. They begin with a sharp and honest discussion about the recent Epstein file dump, analyze Nicki Minaj’s surprise appearance at Turning Point USA’s AmFest and its cultural resonance, and close out with a debate on hip-hop’s “streets” mythology and the viral boxing match between Jake Paul and Anthony Joshua. True to form, they offer humor, pointed critique, and vulnerable personal anecdotes throughout.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Social Media Dynamics and Clipping (00:13–08:00)

• Ongoing Social Media Disputes: The episode kicks off with Van and Rachel referencing Keith Edwards' habit of using Van’s podcast quotes in online arguments.

  • Van points out: "There is nothing more tried and true than a white guy using a black guy to attack black people for him." (02:20)
  • Rachel’s clarification: “He continues to use your clips as if that is a Higher Learning thought. And it’s not.” (05:04)

• Threads vs. Other Platforms: Rachel maintains Threads (Meta’s Twitter rival) is essential, while Van jokes about finally joining. They shout out Jamel Hill as a positive force on Threads.

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2. The Epstein Files: Release, Blackmail, and Public Trust (09:05–40:37)

Background & Initial Reactions (09:05–13:20)

• New Document Release: 13,000+ DOJ documents related to Jeffrey Epstein are released. The hosts discuss the accompanying images of celebrities and politicians like Bill Clinton, Michael Jackson, and Chris Tucker.
  • Rachel’s frustration: "I'm so tired of it. But it's necessary, right? ... It continues to make the administration look worse. They look suspicious. They look like they're hiding something, which they totally are." (09:47)

The Blackmail Theory and Cultural Impact (13:20–19:56)

• Van’s Analysis: Van describes his obsessive interest in the case and lays out suspicions that Epstein was running an extensive blackmail operation, given the sheer volume and nature of the photos.

  • Memorable quote: "I'm looking at these pictures ... why was that picture taken? What is the use of that picture? ... These pictures seem like surveillance." (17:19)

• Rachel’s Pushback: She counters, emphasizing that photographs don’t always imply guilt and details a woman’s account positioning Epstein as an obsessive celebrity “fan” collecting pictures.

Document Redactions, Congress, and the Trump Angle (24:04–40:37)

• Congressional Pressure: Van and Rachel report on bipartisan frustration (Ro Khanna, Thomas Massie) over heavy redactions and incomplete file releases. Threats of holding Attorney General Pam Bondi in contempt are noted.

  • Rachel: “I feel like they're trying to redact more than necessary or even protect Trump under the guise of national security.” (27:01)

• Cultural Politics: Van explores why the Right (QAnon-adjacent) pushed so hard for these files, noting, “The reason why these files are being made public is because this was a rallying cry from the Right.” (28:37)

• Bill Clinton Jokes: Van riffs on why Black America largely doesn’t care about Bill Clinton’s implication, sharing a volley of playful jokes scored by Rachel and the crew. (38:05–40:29)

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3. Nicki Minaj, Turning Point USA, and Cultural Contradictions (41:39–59:39)

Nicki Minaj’s AmFest Appearance (41:39–47:07)

• Clip Played: Nicki Minaj delivers a speech about Black women and beauty standards, shifting focus to defending white women's right to feel beautiful.

  • Nicki: “If, as Black women, we felt that we were not being represented ... why would we want to do that to other women?” (42:04)

• Rachel’s Response:

  • “Nicki Minaj is full of contradictions ... She attacks black children, yet wants to sit on that stage and preach for us to not attack white children ... Your husband and brother are pedophiles and you defend them, then you’re on stage with the party that’s about protecting children.” (45:19)

Standing by the Barbs? (47:24–56:21)

• Van expresses empathy for Nicki’s fanbase, the Barbs, observing how difficult it must be for LGBTQ youth and others who found identity in Nicki to reconcile this shift in her public persona.

  • Van: “It is difficult to put the toys of our youth away. ... Sometimes though, people make you.” (49:24)

• Rachel disagrees: “If you’re a Barb in 2025, I feel nothing for you.” (48:47)

The “Rightward Turn” and Entertainment (59:39–63:25)

• Van theorizes that Nicki and other celebrities associate with right-wing movements to capture new audiences as their original base ages or loses interest.
  • Van: “The right return is a retirement policy. ... They are trying to attract a new demo that is tried and true.” (59:39)

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4. Dave Chappelle’s Netflix Special: Reflections and Controversy (64:17–84:08)

• General Reception: Both hosts agree Chappelle’s storytelling is powerful, and the special—though less comedic, more reflective—shows his gifts as a cultural critic and provocateur.

On Trans Jokes and Saudi Arabia (69:19–78:54)

• Escalation in Trans Jokes: Van points out, “In Dave Chappelle’s latest trans joke, Dave killed a trans person ... That’s an escalation.” (69:19)

• Free Expression versus Venue: The hosts debate Chappelle’s claim that free speech is more possible in Saudi Arabia, questioning the hypocrisy when the country is known for harsh restriction of dissent.

  • Van: “Dave Chappelle did that for money.” (76:22)

“Who Do We Let Lie to Us?” (80:46–84:08)

• Van observes how difficult it is to let go of beloved cultural figures, comparing how people forgive or overlook problematic stances in their favorites—Chappelle included.
  • “It's just about who you let lie to you. Dave is brilliant, and I'm always gonna fuck with Dave.” (82:46)

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5. “Fuck the Streets”: Street Ideology, Hip-Hop, and Changing Values (85:14–104:05)

• 21 Savage’s Viral Tweet: Van and Rachel react to 21 Savage’s call for peace and rejection of “the streets” mentality, which set off debate in hip-hop circles.

  • Read the tweet aloud and paraphrase: “Fuck the streets. We ain’t get shit but trauma from that shit.” (85:42)

• Hip-Hop’s Role in Glorifying Street Life:

  • Van: “The people that told me how awesome the streets were were these rappers... Not people actually from the streets.” (87:54)

• Culture, Judgment, and Second Chances: Discussion on the need for hip-hop and communities to promote healing, better opportunities, and honest dialogue about survival vs. glamorization.

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6. Boxing: Jake Paul vs. Anthony Joshua (104:08–121:09)

• Jake Paul as the Face of Boxing: Van analyzes the rise of Jake Paul as the most recognizable 'star' compared to traditional champs, thanks to streaming and influencer culture.

  • Van: “Jake Paul is the biggest star in boxing.” (108:08)
  • Rachel and Van banter about whether Van said “star” or “boxer”.

• Anthony Joshua’s Introduction to U.S. Audiences: Rachel confesses to knowing nothing about Joshua but being captivated by his physique and presence, prompting Van to recount Joshua’s championship career.

• Race and Boxing: Brief but pointed commentary on how identity and country play into boxing fandoms and promotion.

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7. Pop Culture Lightning Round: Timothée Chalamet and More (121:12–127:53)

• Timothée Chalamet’s “Crossover”: Rachel and Van joke about Chalamet’s evolving image and “black culture” crossover status, rating his “number” on the unofficial crossover scale (now 5,000 after his drill rap video).
• Sway and King Tech’s “For the Culture”: Van praises a recent hip-hop culture event for its diversity and unity.

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Memorable Quotes & Standout Moments

• On Keith Edwards, social media, and political weaponization:
  “I cannot do anything but be honest about my perspectives on here ... There is nothing more tried and true than a white guy using a black guy to attack black people for him.” —Van (02:20)

• On the Epstein file dump:
  “These pictures don't seem like just photos ... They seem like surveillance.”—Van (17:19)

• On the purpose of the DOJ redactions:
  “They're trying to redact more than necessary or even protect Trump under the guise of national security.” —Rachel (27:01)

• On Nicki Minaj’s AmFest speech:
  “Nicki Minaj is full of contradictions ... She attacks black children, yet wants to sit on that stage and preach for us.” —Rachel (45:19)
  “It is difficult to put the toys of our youth away.” —Van (49:24)

• On Dave Chappelle and forgiveness:
  “It's just about who you let lie to you. Dave is brilliant, and I'm always gonna fuck with Dave ...” —Van (82:46)

• On hip-hop and “the streets”:
  “The people that told me how awesome the streets were were these rappers ... The people from the streets told me not to play around with this.” —Van (87:54)

• On Jake Paul’s prominence:
  “Jake Paul is the biggest star in boxing.” —Van (108:08)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Epstein Files breakdown/photo analysis: 09:05–23:44
• Congressional response and redactions: 24:04–28:35
• Bill Clinton jokes on the Epstein scandal: 38:05–40:29
• Nicki Minaj at AmFest, cultural critique: 41:39–47:07
• Discussion of 'the Barbs' and celebrity right-turns: 47:24–63:25
• Dave Chappelle's Netflix special, controversy: 64:17–84:08
• Street mythology, 21 Savage tweet debate: 85:14–104:05
• Jake Paul vs. Anthony Joshua, boxing culture: 104:08–121:09
• Timothée Chalamet crossover scale, hip-hop events: 121:12–127:53

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Tone & Style

The conversation is direct, humorous, layered with inside jokes, and occasionally raw—especially when dealing with race, politics, and celebrity contradiction. Both hosts are unapologetically honest, often challenge each other, and use humor and storytelling to diffuse heavier moments.

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For Listeners Who Missed the Episode

This episode is a masterclass in cultural analysis—ranging from dissecting the real-world impact of document dumps and celebrity contradiction to interrogating how hip-hop and Internet culture continues to shape Black experience and public discourse. Van and Rachel deliver sharp, at times vulnerable commentary, offer education on political processes and cultural history, and never shy away from saying what many are thinking (or afraid to say). Whether you care about politics, pop culture, sports, or just want an authentic current-events run-down, this conversation is as honest as it gets.

Transcript

[A]

Foreign. Yo, yo, yo, Thought Warriors. What is up? Higher Learning is on. It is I, Van Lathen Jr. And.

[B]

It'S me, Rachel Lynn Lindsey.

[A]

Crazy ending to the Detroit Lions football game last night.

[B]

Oh, crazy ending.

[A]

Donnie, Donnie, you want to talk about sports, Michigan?

[C]

No, I don't. I'd rather talk about anything else. What y' all got up for the holidays?

[A]

Anything, Donny. Would you rather talk about Jeffrey Epste?

[C]

I would. Let's do it.

[A]

You rather talk about Jeffrey Epson?

[B]

I'd rather talk about the Lions, but that's crazy.

[A]

That just lets you know. Well, guys, let's get right into it. Screw the pleasantries. Merry Christmas to everyone.

[B]

Merry Christmas. Happy Holidays. Happy Holidays.

[A]

You afraid to say Merry Christmas?

[B]

I said Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays. It's called inclusivity zest. And Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays.

[A]

However you may solve on Christmas, I'm.

[B]

Literally wearing the hat.

[A]

I know.

[B]

For those watching Van Brought Christmas hats, which is very, very sweet. Very cute.

[A]

Do you. But you. Is there something. You have a problem with Christmas?

[B]

Do I look like I have a problem with Christmas?

[A]

Right. We're weird for this podcast today. We're on the right of what? Politics? Everything. Everybody, every people are going right. This is now Higher Learning, brought to you by Turning Point usa. It is. We're on the right. We're on the. What's the nigga? The threads, nigga. He keeps putting us on the right.

[B]

Oh, he keeps putting you on the right. Your best friend is Keith Edwards.

[A]

Keith, if you gonna post me this much, you gotta. You gotta give us some dialogue, Keith.

[B]

Well, no, he is. You see, very quickly. What did he say very quickly after we did this podcast and you called him out? We called him out. You called him a name? He said. We got an email that said he would. He would love to look for a time in January.

[A]

You didn't see that he's coming on the podcast.

[B]

Well, he has to now because he continues to cut snippets that are in favor. You're his favorite person right now. Like you, he continues to put out snippets on the attack of a particular black woman from Texas, and he uses you to further his point against her.

[A]

So here's the thing. I got. I'm going to be honest. I got to say this. Here's the thing. I cannot do anything but be honest about my perspectives on here. I owe that to the audience and to myself. I will say this, though, and this is to Keith. I love this, and I'll tell you why. There is nothing more tried and true than a white guy using a black guy to attack black people for him.

[B]

Because what is it giving. I have black friends.

[A]

It's. No, it's. It is Keith. I gotta keep it real on here. And I would say this to Congresswoman Crockett, if she was on the show. She was on the show. I talk about the video, the rollout. I talk about the. How I see her as a national political figure. All the things I love about her and some things that I don't like about centrist left politicians in of themselves. Be honest about that. We'll always be honest about that because I think Congressman Crockett would want me to be honest about that. Had a conversation with one of the big Dems this morning, whole conversation, and I think they appreciated the conversation. And I did, too. However, what I love, because remember, I've been around TMZ and stuff like that. I don't mind that Keith is doing that, but it shows me that Keith has an agenda and that's okay, too.

[B]

Which is what. But that's what was the original conversation.

[A]

But it's okay that he has an agenda. See, that's my point. My point is having an agenda is okay. If you're in this space, it's okay to have an agenda.

[B]

And my point is don't act like you don't.

[A]

I think. I don't know that he has it.

[B]

But I. Oh, Keith. I believe Keith is acting like he's saying, oh, my God, they're calling me racist. Which I don't agree with. Said that on this podcast. I don't agree with that. I do not. I'm not going to say Keith is racist. I don't think. I don't think that. But. Or he hasn't shown me anything to make me say that. However, there is an agenda. He's not saying that and nobody's saying. And I agree with you. It's okay. That is your. It is your platform and you're allowed to do that. But don't act like people are dumb when they say that or they're wrong when they're saying that you have one.

[A]

Okay. If they're saying that agenda is based on race, that he doesn't like it because she's black, that's one thing. If they're saying that agenda is if he was to come out and say, hey, I favor James Hellarico because all this. I saw he did that in the video. Fine with me. I have no problem, no problem with him saying, I like one candidate over the other one. If we are saying that that is because she is black, I think that at least deserves a little bit more interrogation and investigation. But Keith can't wait to. Can't wait to have you on.

[B]

I can't either, because he continues to use your clips as if that is a higher learning thought. And it's not.

[A]

It's just me. Higher learning is two people. Rachel Van is actually a lot of people. You got fucking Bernard, you got Jade back there. You got Donnie. Like, higher learning is a whole intelligents. And I'm just the nigga who's consistently wrong on the show. That's my function.

[B]

But when I saw it, I was like sending to the group chat, sitting to the group chat.

[A]

I'm gonna be. I'll say one last thing before we get.

[B]

Cause you're not on threads. I want you to see it.

[A]

There's one last thing before we get into Epstein here. Donnie, who said he would rather talk about Jeffrey Epstein than Detroit Lions football.

[B]

So we're gonna let him cook. Right on the big deal of the day. Donnie, this is you.

[A]

I think that this is all, in my opinion, a conspiracy between you and Keith and those nice, so positive sisters that I see that are in these threads fighting against Keith. I think this is a conspiracy from y' all to get people on threads. I have never seen anything worthwhile happen on threads ever.

[B]

You're just not on it. I've never seen it, but I'm going.

[A]

Back and forth on threads. This is making me look at threads, which I've never done.

[B]

There are a lot of people who actually wrote me after the last podcast who were like, ve just doesn't know, like, threads really is where it's at. Like, you know who's big on threads? People who used to be big on, like, Jamel huge on threads. Like, I like she big periods.

[A]

Happy birthday to my sister.

[B]

Yeah. Happy birthday, Jamel. No, like, I.

[A]

You see Jamel's birthday post?

[B]

I loved it. I loved it. You better. Jamel, you look fantastic. I like, I. It's just so empowering. So empowering.

[A]

My mom is attracted to her husband.

[B]

It's beautiful. Oh, bruh.

[A]

Oh, yeah, he is. I saw them on a plane one time. Like, I was going to New York to do something, and I think they were going to New York and then going to another country on. And I was like, I'm sitting down and I'm kind of tired, whatever. And on my periphery, I see this black couple, and they're toasting champagne as they're about to. We're about to fly. I think they were going on a vacation. And I look over, I'm like, man, who are these happy ass niggas? Toasting champagne. I gotta go work. I look over and it's Jamel and it toast in champagne. They're happy.

[B]

Yeah, they are.

[A]

Black couple. Happy birthday, Jamel. Yeah, she's on Threads.

[B]

A lot of people. I'm just telling you. Just.

[A]

What about Spill?

[B]

Who?

[A]

Yeah, spill. Yeah. Excuse me. Okay, you're all over Threads. What about Spill?

[B]

And what I like about Threads is that a lot of the people I don't like, I don't follow these people. And I constantly put. I'm just telling you, there are a lot of people. I'm not even gonna do what I did last podcast. Fine, let's move on. You're not on it. You don't like it, it's fine.

[A]

I might get on it now. I might get on it now. Maybe, Maybe. This is my introduction into two threads this week.

[B]

On scene on the screen, Hugh Jackman, obviously Oscar nominated actor.

[A]

And as much as people love to see blades coming out of his knuckles and tearing people up, he loves to sing and dance.

[D]

Yeah, he's a showman.

[C]

He really is.

[A]

Some have called him the greatest showman girl.

[D]

Join me, Jacqueline Coley, as I meet the filmmakers, actors and industry insiders influencing entertainment. Each episode, guests share their journeys and inspirations and answer trivia about the movies that shaped them. My next guest is Craig Brewer, writer, director and producer of Song Sung Blue. To listen, simply search seen on the screen.

[B]

Wherever you listen to podcasts.

[D]

Oh, what fun. Holiday invites are arriving and Nordstrom has your party fits covered. You'll find head to toe looks for every occasion, including styles under 100, dresses, sets, heels and accessories from Bardot, Princess Polly, Dolce Vita, naked wardrobe coach, and more. Freestyling help. Free shipping and quick order pickup make it easy in stores or online. It's time to go shopping at Nordstrom Epstein files.

[A]

Jesus, Donnie, this is your shit. You want to talk about this rather than Jared Goff and OPI and I didn't really feel like it was that egregious in opi. It certainly was opi. I want to. But we're not going to get into that. Tell us about what happened with the Epstein files.

[C]

Yeah. The Department of Justice on Friday, they released more than 13,000 documents tied to Epstein. That initial release, it was pretty heavily redacted, but it did include previously unseen images of high profile figures taking pictures with Epstein, including Bill Clinton, Mick Jagger, Michael Jackson and Chris Tucker. Who was interviewed, I believe, and released a statement about some of those pictures. What did you guys think of the. The dump?

[A]

The dump.

[B]

Oh, my God. That's exactly what it was, though. It was a dump. It was a dump. I just, you know, I'm grateful for the Ro Khannas and the Thomas Masseys and everybody else who continues to support this, because for me, I'm like, I'm so tired of it. But it's necessary, right? No, no, no, no. It's absolutely necessary. But it's tiring with. Every time we're told, oh, we're gonna get something, there's always pushback. It's never what it seems. We know it's out there. We know this is an administration that is continuing to. I don't even know if it's circumvent the rules, because at this point, they're breaking the law. Like, what Pam Bondi is doing is breaking the law at this point. The only thing that I will say that I appreciate amongst the frustration of not getting the information that we're told that we're supposed to get or legally supposed to get in this, this time, is that it continues to make the administration look worse. Every time it comes to the Epstein files and the Trump administration, they look worse. They look suspicious. They look like they're hiding something, which they totally are, and that I'm for. But I'm so exhausted with this. I wouldn't say that I was, like, waiting for the drop because I just knew that something was going to happen. It always does.

[A]

You know what I like about you?

[B]

What?

[A]

You're a regular American.

[B]

You just call me regular.

[A]

Be careful, Rachel. Be careful about making yourself a permanent victim in every statement ever made.

[B]

I'm asking a question for clarification purposes.

[A]

Can I. Can I. Why not? Let me extrapolate it. Okay. You're a regular American. Meaning you're a person that has a life, that has goals and dreams and ambitions, that cares deeply. I am a deviant freak, okay? I'm a. I'm obsessed with this.

[B]

I know you are.

[A]

I'm one of the people that. That's really ruining everything. I am one of them. I'm one of the people that. It's like a dog with a bone. Can't let go of stuff. Whatever it is. If it's AI, it's Epstein, it's Venezuela, it's Israel. Like a deep, deep, deep corruptible mind.

[B]

Obsessive compulsive.

[A]

Obsessive compulsive, compulsive. What can I read? What can I See, where can I go? Who's behind this? What's happening? And the types of people like myself, these are the type of people that's ruining society at large.

[B]

It's a gift and a curse. That's not true. It's a gift and a curse.

[A]

No, no, no. It's 100%. It's 100% facts. Because sometimes you get to the end of something and you get to the end of something, but then you have people that go, oh, maybe, maybe there's something else. And then you have to do the work, which is painstaking and insanely, insanely useless to, like, see what the actual story is. You have to look at it and continue to get more information and more information. And that leads to this entire cottage industry right now of people just going, I'm just asking questions because there are people out there that are like me. A black molder, right? Yeah. Mulder and Scully, like a black molder, right? Walking around, refusing to believe it. Gotta get answers. Gotta get answers. Gotta get answers. You must believe what is real. What is real? What is real? Stuff like this. The Epstein files. For people like me. Intoxicating. I looked at all the pictures.

[B]

I know you did.

[A]

Every one of them. I looked at every picture and I came away with conclusions.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Clearly a blackmail operation going on. I'm sure of it. Clearly a wide reaching blackmail operation that's going on. And let me tell you why. We've all taken pictures.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, of course.

[A]

Been a spring break before.

[B]

I never experienced it, sadly. I never had like a wild spring break. Truth. I would say it.

[A]

Okay, so if you went to spring break break, you took pictures. It's a part of it.

[B]

Yeah. You did.

[A]

The question is, what kind of pictures did you take when you were at spring break, what pictures did you take?

[B]

Not my experience, but especially back then when there was no social media like that. You took everything. You documented it all.

[A]

You documented it all, but you documented the things that were worth documenting. Right. When I'm looking at these pictures, I'm seeing a lot of photos and a lot of different images that I'm looking at. And I'm saying, why was that picture taken? What is the use of that picture? What is the use of this picture? I'm looking at it right now. I'm bringing up old Billy boy because this is. There's an Epstein Files browser that was made. We're going to talk a little bit more about Ro Khanna and Thomas Massie's response to the DOJ's release before we do. There's a file viewer that was released. And we're just going off the pictures here. These are the pictures, the people that are in the Epstein file. Pictures. Epstein, 275 pictures. Pictures. Ghislaine Maxwell, 90 pictures. Number three, Bill Clinton.

[B]

Well, we knew that was coming.

[A]

We'll talk about Bill Clinton a little bit later. 25 pictures. Walter Cronkite, 9. Chris Tucker, 6. Talk about Chris in the second too. Chris. Chris. Got something to say to you guys. William Daniel Hillis, Henry Jarecki, Ted Waite. Mick Jagger was in 40s. John Brockman, all different types of people. Duchess of York. David Copperfield's in three. We know he a freak. Kevin Spacey Wexler, Richard Branson, two From Michael Jackson. The Michael Jackson estate and the intelligence. The entire Michael Jackson world vehemently denied any type of nefarious activity from the King of Pop. They've been talking about it. They're very upset with people. They're saying throwing dirt on Mike's name even more.

[B]

Well, because what the. I guess like what the connotation is, is if there's a picture then that equates some type of wrongdoing. Wrongdoing. Which. I was watching a video of a woman saying that she had spent time around Epstein, not on the island. And she was like, this was a man who was obsessed with celebrity and it didn't matter where he was or who he was with. He was always asking a picture and he was for a picture and he was always taking pictures. So when I saw like the Michael pictures, they look like a fan taking pictures with. With a celebrity. And so I was like, that makes a lot of sense. And I think that that's a perspective that's very useful because just because there's a picture with someone doesn't equate to wrongdoing. So to counter a little bit your point with the spring break of it all, it doesn't mean that there was a purpose for taking the picture, at least based on this woman's account. Doesn't mean that there was a particular. They took that picture for a spec. Sounds like he just was like a big picture taker. But this is particularly of famous people.

[A]

But this is the deal, though. I looked at all the pictures and I'm looking at even these pictures of Walter Cronkite. You're looking at pictures of Walter Cronkite right here. Right? Walter Cronkite, the face and voice of the United States news media for a long time. There are nine pictures of Cronkite here.

[B]

Let Me see, look, there are nine.

[A]

Pictures of Cronkite here, right?

[B]

They're all the same. From the same. It looks like a one time thing. Yeah, but I mean, like that's important to describe.

[A]

Well, no, no, no. They're all. I'm not saying that Walter Cronkite was involved in anything. What I'm saying is that the way that these pictures are laid out, taking nine different pictures of the same conversation, it doesn't make any sense. And a lot of times in these, in, in this entire drop, when you look at the pictures, if we were at spring break or anywhere else, you take one picture of this, two pictures of this. You take pictures where these people are posing. Nine candid shots of this gentleman talking to Walter Cronkite. I'm not saying that there's anything here to blackmail the beloved Walter Cronkite. I'm saying that these pictures seem like surveillance. I'm telling you, these pictures don't seem like just photos that you take to document fun times and memories. They seem like surveillance. They seem like pictures that you're taking habitually because you're trying to document different things in ways to gain leverage over people. Maybe not Cronkite in this situation, but all of this seems like file building. It seems like the building of a world and stuff that you want to have. Certainly some of these pictures with Bill Clinton, when you look at some of them, you see pictures of Clinton. There's one picture with Clinton and Epstein, they getting off together. Look at this. That's some Biggie Puff shit.

[B]

They got the dress socks on, they.

[A]

Dressed alike, the whole deal. They were clearly friends, Very, very close friends. You can look around and you know, some of the people in these pictures with Bill Clinton are redacted. There's one picture of a young lady sitting on Bill Clinton's lap. Pictures with pilots, pictures with Bill Clinton and Mick Jagger, a couple of different pictures, Bill Clinton and the chef. All of this stuff. It seems as if this is part of a wide ranging, years long documentation process. I can't say for what reason. I don't know for what reason. But what I'm saying is if you were to look at all of the photos, there are 4,000 images. I looked at all of them. There are other images, right, that are of Jeffrey Epstein's personal residence where freak, nasty weirdness in a massage room. Paintings of what looked to be new biles. I looked this term up nubile, which is like a young supple woman around as he's getting massages. It seems like all of these pictures are for a purpose. Like, just think about it like this. If in fact, you were in the new bio room where all of this stuff is, you take photos of all the pictures there. It looks like anyone that got a massage in that room is a freak. When you look at the massage room, I'll show you.

[B]

And did the pictures show anybody getting a massage?

[A]

No, but it did show the massage room.

[B]

Well, we know he was freaky.

[A]

I know. We know he was freaky. But think about what you would think if you saw that room and then you knew that someone got a massage in that room. You would think, number one, based upon other things that have happened, you would think that person is freaky. You also, because you know of the crimes committed in that room, you would think that person is engaging in those same crimes. So actually, having the photo of the room and the constant surveillance of everything that Jeffrey Epstein has had, should I say to me, there's a purpose behind it? There had to have been. Even the tape. I mean, the Chris Tucker thing is one thing Chris Tucker is going to use. Actually, let's hear from Chris Tucker real quick because I want to get this out so people understand what some of the celebrities that have been involved in the drop are saying in regards to why they might be in the Epstein files. You knew Jeffrey Epstein, didn't you? Now, I. I did.

[B]

I did.

[A]

You know, we flew Bill Clinton and.

[B]

A lot of different.

[A]

Well, that was. That was a humanitarian trip to Africa.

[B]

And I, I met him on that.

[A]

Trip because it was his plane. I didn't know who plane we was getting on, but it was a whole bunch of dignitary people who's with a delegation. And yeah, I met him. And, you know, you don't know people, what they do in their private lives.

[C]

So, yeah, tell me this Chris, he.

[A]

Was on this private plane, and you.

[C]

Could tell that it was a private plane because they called it. Was it Lolita Express?

[A]

Oh, yeah, it was a private plane. Yes.

[C]

Oh, yes. Wait a minute.

[A]

You didn't never go to that island, did you?

[E]

No, no, no, no, no, no.

[A]

I don't know where that thing. No, no. I was like Red Fox. So look, all of these pictures. Look, pictures of sex toys and all of this stuff. Look at this big. There's a big dildo. It's a gigantic dildo play.

[B]

Yeah, he's freaked out.

[A]

But what I'm saying is all the documentation of all of this stuff just feels like there's intent behind it.

[B]

But he didn't take Those pictures, necessarily.

[A]

Not all of them.

[B]

Yeah, like, I thought that was part of when. When he was under investigation.

[A]

Not all of them.

[B]

So it looks like it was prepared for a fight that those look like that was taken as part of investigation.

[A]

Of course, not all of them. Some of them, though, not all of these pictures that you're. That you're looking at right now. Some of this stuff is investigative stuff. You are right. Some of this stuff, it's marked with investigation stuff on there. Stuff. Some of that stuff. But then there are other pictures and other surveillance that came from that room. So most of the. The. And I don't know if these will ever be made public. Most of the rooms that we're talking about. I should be more specific in that. That's a good point. Most of the rooms that we're talking about in his house had cameras in them. So he was watching the stuff that was going on there. That plus the pictures and all of that stuff. To me, this lends credence to me in my. That there was some sort of blackmail operation that was going on. And it's deeper. It's deeper than rap.

[B]

But you know what you have to do to come to that. You have to speculate. And that's the problem with the information that was released. That's why you have the Ro Khannas and the Thomas Massie and even the victims who are very upset at the release that came out on Friday because it doesn't point to anything specifically other than Jeffrey Epstein was a freak. It doesn't. Like, we knew Bill Clinton. There would be a bunch of pictures of him. We even had heard about Chris Tucker. We knew he flew on the plane.

[A]

We knew it.

[B]

The point is, is that I'm not saying your speculation may very well be true, but at the end of the day, it's speculation because we're getting a bunch of nothingness in all of this. And that is the frustration. Even the people who were har. Like, this is not it. This is not enough. What are you hiding? Why are you hiding it?

[A]

So this is what I'll say to you, okay? I don't believe that it's nothingness for two reasons. Number one, Ryan Grimm and Drop Site News have been doing incredible reporting over there. Go watch and listen to and read what they're doing over at Drop Site, which connects Epstein and his existence to all types of foreign dignitaries. Ehud Barak, who was the former prime minister of Israel, even his connections to Wexler, who is this gigantic clothing mogul who had a business relationship with Epstein that did not seem to be fully formed. There's no direct understanding of what Wexner's relationship with Epstein is other than it seemed like perhaps Epstein had something over him. Wexner was the, like the Victoria's Secret guy and all that stuff on like a lot of difficult. A very rich guy seemed like Epstein had something over him.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That made him invest his money or like give money to Jeffrey Epstein. So all that stuff is being talked about and reported on in various news media outlet places and stuff. Okay. But there's not just pictures that came from this. There's also emails and testimony and all of that. And that stuff a lot of times is more useful. For example, if in fact you would read that if we're speculating on the nature of the relationship between Jeffrey Epstein and Donald Trump, if in fact you read that a 14 year old girl was introduced to Trump and Trump and Epstein joked about it, or that Trump's wife at the time told this 14 year old girl, hey, don't go anywhere near my husband. That then in a way that's, that's.

[B]

At least she's denied that, though.

[A]

Maybe she has, but that, that is the least background into maybe what the nature of their relationship was. I'm not in any way, we can't say here on higher learning we have a lawyer on the premises that anybody definitively, definitively has had any type of relationships that are untoward beyond the people that have been charged and convicted in all of these cases. But what I'm saying is the people, the proximity, all of this stuff that's in this, when you look at it, the backdrop of other stuff that I've read, I'm just like a dog with a bone here. Can't wait till the next drop. Can't wait till we get the rest of the stuff, which is another problem that we have because Massey and Ro Khanna there might, they might be looking to impeach members of the DOJ because of the fact that the files were heavily redacted too. Redacted to them and for them. And also the fact that they didn't get all of it on December 19th.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like they were supposed to.

[B]

Yeah. I mean, they're even talking about holding Attorney General Pam Bondi in contempt.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Until they get it all. And I think the one thing that they're hiding behind. Right. Like there's certain things that they don't have to release and they, they are allowed to redact, but they're also able to redact files for national security purposes. And I've. And that's catch all that. I feel like they're trying to redact more than necessary or even protect Trump under the guise of national security.

[A]

Yeah. So the, the actual Epstein files Transparency act allowed them those redactions like you said. But it seems as if DOJ is playing fast and loose with what they're referring.

[B]

The way you're talking, you're on the case.

[A]

I'm on the case. It seems like DOJ is playing fast and loose with what it is that they're redacting.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

There was a picture of Donald Trump. It was redacted. There was a stink made. Then they put it back in. What is that? What does it mean?

[B]

Well, they said, they claim that the court asked them to pull it, but then less than 24 hours later, they put it right back up.

[A]

Put it right back up. So let me give you something broader here because I could, I could really do a separate Epstein and I know you want to definitely do. Let me give you something broader without. We don't have particularly conspiracy minded audience, so I don't want to bore people. Give you something broader. First of all, I give the right credit here.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I give the right credit here for cutting off their nose despite their face.

[B]

Okay, Gotcha.

[A]

The reason why these files are being made public is because this was a rallying cry from the right. Now you guys just let you guys know during the Biden administration, all of this stuff was open, an open case. Right. You had an appeal. This Julie K. Brown is doing fantastic reporting on why this stuff didn't come out during the Biden administration. Kamala Harris has said that the Biden administration itself wanted to stay separate from doj. That's despite anything that you're hearing from all lawfare and all of that stuff. They wanted to stay separated from doj. They didn't want directives to DOJ to come from on high and say, hey, do this right. But beyond that, a lot of this stuff also was still under open investigation. Maxwell had an appeal out all kinds of things, all kinds of reasons why the administration could not and would not release those files while Joe Biden was president. Now besides that, though, if we're being honest, the cultural push for this stuff to come out came from the right and it came from a belief that there is a deep state that is full of pedophiles. Qanon related all kinds of stuff. And the, the strings of power are being pulled by a few people and they have dirt on each other and we want to see it all we want to see it all. We want to see all. We want transparency. We want to see it all. We, everything. That's whatever. Martin Luther King, jfk, Epstein, we want it all. We want it all. And they got what they wanted.

[B]

They do.

[A]

They voted for people who in the past had said that they would do this. Be it Trump, be it Cash, Patel, be it jd, Vance, whomever it is, who said that they would do this, then those people didn't do it. Right now we are on the precipice right now of something really interesting to me in American politics.

[B]

What's that?

[A]

Around the time of the financial crisis, when shit was really, really, really bad, people were open, more open to me to almost anything. Barack Obama comes along, he gives people a message. We'll talk about the presidency of Barack Obama later. Whatever gives people a message. He actually galvanizes and inspires them. And they go, fuck it, let's try it. We've never tried this type of candidate before. Don't be wrong. We've tried the Harvard educated law review guy, all of that, but never the black guy with Hussein as the middle name, with the non. We never, we haven't really tried it like this before. We're on the precipice, to me of that, on steroids.

[B]

Okay?

[A]

People now, for whatever reason, are having arguing arguments, whether those arguments are nutritious and useful or not, about what it means to be an American. Now there's an argument on the right, and that argument is heritage versus credo. If you can trace your people back to the Revolutionary War, you're an American. If you can't, you're something other. Okay? That's what they're arguing on the left, there's a different argument that's happening. The argument that's happening on the left is whether or not the status quo for political operation and execution is that much different than what you're getting on the right. Whether or not the status quo, whether or not our politicians, whether or not the politicians that we've elected and entrusted power into, whether or not they're any different than anybody else. And you're asking yourself, has my minimum wage gone up? Has my health care been affected? You realize the opposition that is on the other side and you realize that that opposition is strong, it's well resourced and it is dedicated to eroding support for these things that you want. You understand all of this. But people are asking questions about whether or not, whether or not we can hold people responsible for foreign policy decisions that we don't. Like Israel And Gaza, whether or not we can hold people responsible, responsible for around and stuff like this. There are political litmus tests that are out there. And these political litmus tests are meaningful. And they're meaningful because we need to turn over leadership. We need to turn over leadership in a direct way, not in a way that says, hey, let's vote for better corporatists. Let's vote for different people who aren't involved in all of this shit.

[B]

Right, Right.

[A]

So these conversations, not just with Epstein, but with other things, to me, they matter because I get to decide. I get to make the decision who is serious about changing the lives of people and who isn't. Right now this is. I'm not blowing this up into one of these things. But Roe and Thomas Massie, notice these are two guys on opposite sides. What they're really trying to do with this Epstein stuff is kill the masters of their party. They see this as being a weakness for Donald Trump. Donald Trump, who is able to masquerade as somebody who would care about this, who's able to put on a costume, but really isn't. And it's a sore thumb. And you're able to flick that sore thumb by pressing on it. That has to happen in a lot of different ways with a lot of different issues. It just has to exist. You have to find out where these people who you think are on your side on health care, on Gaza, on protecting children, on the strength of the worker. You have to find out where they're inconsistent and you have to make them either change or get them out of there. And so I think that is interesting. And I think there's just enough dysfunction in America right now to actually make lasting decisions that might last for a while. That's what lasting means. I said that twice. I'm not a good talker about people who we give power to. So if you look at this and you go, you know what? I don't want to vote for the people that might have been fucked up with this. I don't want to continue to fuck around with them. Let's find something different. There are little things like this that give you cultural political roadmaps to do that.

[B]

Yeah, no, you're right about Obama. It's how Trump got elected in 2016. And the worst thing that could have happened for Trump with all of this is that it went from just being an Epstein scandal to becoming a Trump scandal. We talked about it before. It is now becoming a Trump issue for the way that they keep trying to run away from it. I'M exhausted at all of it. And that's why, at the top of this, I give credit to the Massey. To the Kana. Sounds weird.

[A]

To the Kana.

[B]

To the Kana.

[A]

That's what we should all.

[B]

Even to you, your obsessive, compulsive behavior and your curiosity with it all. Because it is what needs to happen. It shouldn't be something that we just pushed to the side. It was such an issue for them and for Trump. If Trump is successful in being able to separate himself from this and turn the corner on this, it is because I'll say of people like me who just got fed up with it and just decided to look away and to look at something else, you do need to push the issue. It is really important. For all the underlying issues and the significant things that you're speaking of, we should be like, we should push it. It is bigger than Epstein because of how we got here.

[A]

Than Epstein. From what they say, everything is bigger than Epstein.

[B]

That actually makes sense to.

[A]

That's what they said. Everything was bigger than what Epstein. Okay, even. Okay, one thing I got. We got to do. We put a pin in the Epstein thing. We'll have more about this. Rokhana couldn't make it today because he's too big for us now. Treats us like he's not too big for us.

[B]

He's busy, though. He was on Morning Show. He wasn't Sunday today.

[A]

Hey, I got something to say to you, Rob. I got something to say to you. When is cool for you, you can come on here, eat in person, hang out, do the whole thing. I'm Rokana. You can do the whole thing, but when you popping, you can't stop by.

[B]

And say, oh, that's not about to.

[A]

Start calling y' all out, man.

[B]

No, don't do like he. He would come. He's come on here twice already. Don't do row like that.

[A]

All right, so look, I gotta say one thing before we get off the Epstein thing, though. And this is to my friends on the right. What is with this Clinton shit? Like, why do y' all keep throwing Bill Clinton in our face as if we give a fuck about that?

[B]

Because that's what they give a fuck about when you talk about the. Who let the movement and what they were motivated by. It wasn't just that there was all these elites and public figures working together, and there's this ring of pedophilia, and they're all tied to it and they're protecting each other and all of that. Bill Clinton's name was always associated with it. So they're trying to make you believe that it is Bill Clinton. He's the one. He's the one. Like think of all the things they could have released first. And it's all this stuff about.

[A]

Hold on for a second. But let's say Bill Clinton was in it. Let's say the whole thing is Bill Clinton. I'm supposed to give a fuck about that?

[B]

It's not for us.

[A]

What I'm saying is. But they're making it seem like, oh my God, Bill Clinton will fall. I don't like the fact that they think that we care about Bill Clinton. So I've written a series of jokes, okay. About Bill Clinton. And I want you to rate the jokes. Okay, you can tell me, right? I'm not a stand up comedian, but this is how I'm. This is the thing. This is about us not caring. I don't give a fuck about Bill Clinton. You do.

[B]

Okay, one to five. Five being the best.

[A]

Five being the best joke. Okay, first joke. Every black person that cares about Bill Clinton has glaucoma.

[B]

I don't get it.

[A]

Okay. They're old. I apologize.

[B]

Okay. One.

[A]

Okay. We don't care about Bill Clinton. Bill Clinton would fuck a tricycle if it had titties.

[B]

Three.

[C]

Three.

[A]

Thank you. You loving Bill Clinton is like dudes in jail is what you do when you don't have any other options.

[B]

Damn. 3.

[A]

Damn. Loving Bill Clinton is like eating well done steaks. Something that don't know no better do.

[B]

4.

[A]

4. Loving Bill Clinton is like condom sex life is better when you don't have to do it anymore.

[C]

More.

[B]

Oh my God. Two.

[A]

Two.

[B]

I'm 3.

[C]

2.

[A]

That's good, cuz Think about it. Think about the purpose of the joke right there is like you're loving Bill Clinton is like you having sex with a condom. And then you don't have to do it anymore. And then your whole world is opened up to meet on meat. And then once that happens, your world has changed. Like. And I'll make. So when I realized I didn't have to love corporate centrist Democrats like Bill Clinton, that changed my view of politics in the world. It's kind of the same thing. Bill Clinton represented meat on meat.

[B]

So here's the thing I got just wasn't funny to me. God damn. Which is what I'm supposed to be rating. Not that I didn't understand it.

[A]

J.

[B]

But thank you for that explanation.

[A]

But I'm just saying. But Bernard. J. Donnie, how did my Bill Clinton.

[C]

Jokes Go over if you gotta explain them.

[A]

Damn, man. I thought these was good jokes about Bill Clinton.

[B]

Do you have anything else?

[A]

I just got one more thing to say.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

We don't give a fuck about Bill Clinton. The fuck y' all doing? We don't give a fuck about Bill Clinton.

[B]

5.

[E]

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[E]

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[C]

Turning Point USA had its annual America Fest this past weekend, and there was a surprise, maybe not so surprise appearance from Nicki Minaj, who came out with Erica Trump, wife of Erica Kirk. Excuse me, wife.

[A]

She's not in the family yet. Charlie, he said Erica Trump. She's not in the family yet. She still got some work to do.

[C]

Let's hear from Nikki. If.

[B]

If as black women we felt that we were not being represented and not.

[D]

Being.

[B]

Admired for our beauty, if we.

[D]

Felt like that as black women, why would we want to do that to other women? Why would.

[A]

Come on.

[B]

Need to make other people come on. Play their beauty. No, that's not how it works.

[A]

Come on.

[B]

Need someone with blonde.

[D]

Come on.

[A]

Nicki.

[B]

And blue eyes to downplay their beauty. Know my beauty.

[A]

Do you understand?

[D]

It doesn't bother me what a woman feels.

[A]

And Maxine Minaj beautiful. Why?

[B]

Why shouldn't she feel that?

[A]

Why shouldn't a white woman feel beautiful.

[B]

To a point where certain colors or certain kinds of people have to be afraid of loving themselves and loving the way they look?

[A]

Jay, you hearing this like it's.

[B]

Isn't that wild?

[A]

Rachel, hold on real quick before we get into it. Before we get into it, you agree with that right?

[B]

Are we going to get into it yet?

[A]

Just before. Just before we get into it, I just want you to talk to the little white girls that might be listening, because we got white women that listen. We got a lot of bachelor people, so they white as fuck. So you agree with that, though?

[B]

I do not.

[A]

You don't agree that you want little white women to look in the mirror and feel beautiful? Maybe it's Maybelline.

[B]

I don't agree that Nicki, with Minaj saying that we put them down and make them feel like they aren't beautiful. That is not what black women are doing out here.

[A]

Okay, okay. What y' all doing? And it seems like to me that it's a lot of little barbers that's running around. They're like, mommy, I don't want. I've seen this entire. Where they change their hair. Have you seen that? They have been.

[B]

They've changed their hair. They're dying their hair.

[A]

Yeah, they trying to be. They feel ugly and they want to look more like you.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Well, you know who does make them feel beautiful?

[A]

Black movie.

[B]

I don't know if I'm in a mood or what today, but this is also something that I am just like. It's Nicki Minaj. It's like, this is the least. I was not shocked to see her walking out hand in hand with Erica Kirk. I don't even know if Nicki Minaj was aware of where she was. Did you watch it?

[A]

I did.

[B]

It was one of the most awkward things. Nicki Minaj is not well. And neither is this whole movement. This tpusa, this amp fest, whatever you want to call was a joke. Nicki Minaj goes on rants attacking black children, but then wants to sit on that stage and preach for us black women allegedly to not attack white children. But she attacks black children. Let's not forget her unhinged tweets towards Cardi B's children. She does that. But then she's accusing us of doing that. Nobody's doing that. Your husband and brother are pedophiles.

[A]

Oh, shit.

[B]

And you. They have been convicted and you constantly defend them. But this. You're sitting on stage with people who are supposed to be the party that's about protecting children. Nicki Minaj, she's full of contradictions. She's aligned herself with the correct party because that's a party that does that as well. They claim to be Christians and in step with Christlike principles, yet they spew hatred, division, and lies. That's what Nicki Minaj is. She sat up there as a walking contradiction. Nothing about nothing Nicki Minaj did on that stage was of sound mind. It felt deranged at times. And I don't even know if she realizes that she's being used as a pawn or that she is a fool. She is propaganda being used as propaganda to further their agenda. She won't be the first, she won't be the last. I could care less about Nicki Minaj going on the same way that you talk about, the same way that you talk about. Why do they think that we care about Bill Clinton so much? Yeah, I feel that same thing. We don't care at this point. Of course there are the barbs out there who still support anything and try to justify anything that Nicki Minaj does. But we as a black community are not listening to Nicki Minaj and saying, you know what, she's right. You know what, she's inspiring me to stop attacking white little white girls, white children. She's really saying something up there that is really resonating with me and makes me look at myself in a different way as a black person. Nicki Minaj does not have any influence I feel, over the Black community in 2025. She's a joke. She's a fool.

[A]

Okay, so this, so this is my, this is my deal number one, I didn't really care about Nicki Minaj's opinion on politics before Amfest and I didn't care after. Right. However, she is entitled to her opinion.

[B]

Of course she is.

[A]

So she's entitled to her opinion. Everyone is entitled to their opinion.

[B]

Right?

[A]

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. If you have a political awakening and you come to the left, if Nicki Minaj comes out next year and she goes, hey, I'm for Medicaid for all single payer healthcare, I'm for not getting involved in foreign wars. If she says all of that stuff, I'm looking at Nicki Minaj. So she's entitled to her opinion. The opinions that I respect on politics are normally opinions that can be demonstrated by real life experience and then some sort of scholarship. So if you tell me that you are anti recidivism or anti against the prison industrial complex, you both for me have had to read and written and done some books, but you also need to have worked with the inmates, the incarcerated people, the formerly incarcerated people, like that's, Those are the opinions that I respect. And there are very few people, including myself a lot of times on a lot of issues, there are issues that I get Involved with that, have that full scope of stuff, right? So her being an fs, I don't care. She's entitled to her opinion. She's on the right now. She's tied to that. The people I really feel for right now are the Barbs. And I'm being for real.

[B]

If you're a Barb in 2025, I feel nothing for you.

[A]

No, no, I can't say that, right? I can, I like, but I can't say that the people I really feel for are the Barbs. And I'll tell you why I'm not gonna speak for the Barbs. I'm not going to speak to them. I'm going to speak to my perception of them. My perception of the Barbs is this incredibly loyal fan base that saw themselves in a performer. And if there's one thing that you could say about Nicki Minaj is that she's distinct. She has a distinct way of rapping, she has a distinct look, she's had a distinct experience and that distinction. All of the ways that Nicki Minaj was unique, not just musically, but in performance and in style, that entranced people. They were caught up in it. She became a cult like figure for those people. And a lot of those people were people that the rest of society like, beats up on all the time. Like, a lot of those people are people that saw themselves and Nicki and Nicki Minaj and felt empowered by the fact that Nikki said fuck you to everybody, that Nicki didn't give a fuck about anything, that Nikki's music, that they could emulate it. If you were a young gay boy or a young gay girl or somebody that was into all the histrionics and all of that stuff, it looked like you had a mascot. It looked like you had somebody that you could try to be like and, and be into and all of that stuff. Right, Whatever. However you want to say it, those people now, right, A lot of them, not all of them, because a lot of them are going to support Nikki no matter what. Those people now that have put all of their faith in somebody now have to struggle with something that we all do, which is putting the toys of our youth away. And that's hard to do. I haven't been able to do it 45 years old. I haven't been able to stop believing in Luke Skywalker. I'm 45 years old. I haven't been able to stop going to Marvel movies. I'm 45 years old. And the things that matter to me during my formative Years still matter because it is difficult to put them away. Sometimes though, people make you. They make you. They make you stand back and go, what the fuck am I doing here? And that's always hard. It's always hard with someone that you've put that much into. Makes you go, wait a second. Fuck. Is really what we talk about a lot on the podcast is really, it's really what, what happened with Snoop so happened with any of these guys. You're like, damn, I've been fucking with you and rocking with you for so long. Can I steal? And it's not even about Nicki Minaj. It's about what am I am if I am not a fan of you? What am I if I can't listen to this music and be a part of this culture and this movement anymore? What am I now? And her getting with and aligning with a group or a political mindset, should I say that is pretty squarely anti lgbt, Pretty squarely anti, anti, anti that produces this version of America that is very narrow, incredibly narrow. Right. And demands 100% of psychological and intellectual allegiance to them. Or you're not one of them. That's limiting. If you think you about to go to a TPUSA event and see them open their doors to a whole bunch of barbs next year, you're fucking crazy. They ain't doing that play Charlie Kirk on Nicki Minaj.

[E]

Right now, black culture is being held captive by influences. Songs.

[D]

Which influences?

[E]

I mean, Nicki Minaj, Cardi B.

[D]

Okay.

[B]

Nicki Minaj is causing dads to leave the home.

[E]

Hold on, I don't think that's a good role model for 18 year old black girls. I don't, I don't think that songs that are talking about like glorifying wet female genitalia is exactly. I don't know which one wrote that song. Which one was it?

[B]

I think it was Ben Shapiro.

[E]

Yeah, that's right. Yeah, but is, is, but, and, but by the way, the role models of the 1940s and 50s for black America were completely different.

[B]

So it is a representation issue.

[E]

Hold on a second. No, not representation. It's who do you get your art from? It's what values are they putting forward? It's the question of every day. For example, more times than not, black politicians will lament the condition of America. It's systemically racist. It's terrible. What does that do to a 14 year old black kid? If you just find that you hear that everything is rigged against you. Instead they should be saying, hey, there might Be some barriers. But if you believe in yourself enough, you can achieve in this country.

[A]

So my thing is, for whatever reason that she's had this awakening and she can. She's free to have an awakening. People say she wants to pardon for her husband. People are saying she, she. She feels the roar of that crowd. Like all your celebrity, every celebrity that you know, every famous person that you love, they're all addicts. They're addicts. Every single famous person is an addict. We're TMZ for nine years. They're addicts. When Nicki Minaj hit that stage, that is her crack you guys are talking about. She's on cocaine, all of that stuff. I don't know what drugs anybody is using. I'm not interested in it. Whatever. When she hit that stage, the roar of that crowd, that's the drug. That's the drug. And by the way, that's a drug that's very specific. You can go in front of your crowd. It's no different than sometimes the relationships. You are. You're in a no pussy, like new pussy, right? You can go in front of your crowd and you can get a roar. You can go in front of your barbs and you can get a roar. But to step in a room, a room of people that have never given a fuck about you before about you before, and get love from then, it feels new, it feels different, it feels invigorating. It feels like it's 2012 again. And that is the reason why I feel bad for the Barbs. I feel bad for them because they have been orphaned. They have been orphaned by their mom, who has moved on to another group of adorers. A group of adorers that are in direct contrast with the last group of people that loved her. And I feel bad for them. I really do. I don't know how many of them are going to be in conflict over this. Maybe not as many as I think. Maybe more than I think. But I feel sorry for a bunch of people that felt powerful in aligning themselves with Nicki Minaj just to see her go to a place where really they can't follow.

[B]

I obviously disagree with you when it comes to the barbs. I think that if this was the first time Nicki Minaj had done something, of course we haven't seen her, you know, align herself in this way so publicly and so loud. But she's been doing it for a while on social media, which she's been aligning herself with a party, as you said, that is anti, anti, anti. This Isn't the first act from Nicki Minaj. So I don't feel sorry for them. If you're a barb at this point, you're still choosing to support Nicki Minaj no matter what they are. You are. At this point, she is revealed. She is unapologetically herself. She is revealed to you not just.

[A]

Because of Amfest, because of the entire arc of this. Of Nicki Minaj's term is what I'm talking about.

[B]

Yes. And you're right. Nicki Minaj is very much so entitled to her opinions, to her beliefs, to whatever political party that she wants to align herself with, to whatever movement, to whatever politician. She is totally allowed to do that. My point is, is the contradiction of it all and how disgusting I feel it. Is that to your point? We played that Charlie Kirk clip. That is what Charlie Kirk thought of her. That is what the TPUSA movement thinks of her. And black women. You saw how JD Vance got on stage and talked about Jasmine Crockett. But somehow Nicki Minaj believes that she's different. What Nicki Minaj did on that stage is allowed people to continue to disparage black women. She allowed them to continue to talk about them in a way that is negative or have certain stereotypes about black women. Black women are not going around condemning little white girls. That is such a lie. But Nicki Minaj is going around condemning other black women and black children. So hatred is okay in our community from you, but then you want to get on there and tell us not to be hateful, which is not even true. Black women are not going around doing this to little girls. But it's okay for you. She got on there and talked about Nigeria. Do you not realize that this is a movement and an administration that put Nigeria on the ban list? They don't even want Nigerians in this country. Nicki Minaj is extremely problematic and she has been for a very, very long time. So I don't feel sorry. I'm sorry. Nicki Minaj came on the scene 20 something years ago. She is not the same person that she was. She did. She came out like 2000. 2000. Yeah. Like that first album didn't drop in 2004.

[A]

2000. Nah, nah.

[B]

Yes. Nicki Minaj was around when I was in college.

[A]

No, no, no way.

[B]

Donnie, can you look that up? She started doing music in like 2002. 2004.

[A]

Like, she. I remember the verse I saw.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

Her first big album. Sorry. Maybe she was underground then. Her first bit. Okay, fine.

[A]

2007. Nicki Minaj, that's from Wayne. That's like when did her first whatever she.

[B]

Okay, 07, I'm what, I'm four or five years. My point is.

[A]

No, but I'm saying is almost like 20 years ago.

[B]

Nicki Minaj, almost 20 years ago. So if you still think that Nicki Minaj is the same person who. I understand, for all you did a very fantastic breakdown of why Nicki Minaj became so popular and built this cult like fan base. I understand that in a very similar way, you know, for maybe for white people when it came to feeling different that Lady Gaga did, I understand that. Marilyn Manson, I understand, okay, I understand that. But that's not who Nicki Minaj is and that's not who she has been. And again, you can say whatever you want, but you don't have to put down black women in our community in order to lift up another community. And that's exactly what Nicki Minaj is doing. And that's why she's problematic. And to be very honest. And she just don't even make fucking sense. She did not make sense when she was on that stage. She said things, she got stumbled, she had to pause. They were making. They were speaking for her because it was just all over the place.

[A]

Once again, Once again, like, I agree, there's nothing I'm not saying anything about. I don't, I don't have, I don't have very much of opinion about Nicki Minaj's right return. I don't have opinion about no one's right return anymore. Nobody. I don't care about your right return anymore. There have been too many right returns. The right would turn is a retirement policy. That's what it is. The right return is. I've dropped every album, I've done every song I have. People turn right for the same reason that Facebook is into AI. One know one reason why this AI thing is happening. Because there's no more Facebook customers. Everybody who wants Facebook has Facebook. There are no more Instagram customers, no more Twitter people. There's no more stuff for these people. Everybody that wants it has it. So the way that you do the thing that you do in the future is you invent a new industry. Either you take people into the metaverse when you're Facebook and you get all people riled up into that, you establish something new or you go to the AI, you take your existing customer base that you have and you sell them on a new technology that they have to have. That's the only way that you expand It Apple can kind of game us by making us buy a new phone every year and a half for the goddamn camera on it, but there's nothing new. The reason why you're seeing so many of these people doing so much of this stuff is because they are trying to attract a new demo that is tried and true.

[B]

I think that's what Nikki's doing.

[A]

I think that part of it is Nikki, part of it is that. And part of it is also proximity to something that a lot of people want. Prestige is very important. Where can you go that you will be taken seriously? Where can you go that you feel like you are smart? Like, where can you go? I mean, when I say taken seriously, I mean being put on stage at Amfest. Nicki Minaj has done too much to be put on stage at some of these other places. But in that situation that they put her on stage for the same reason they put Kid Rock on stage, the same reason they put Dean Cain. They make him an ICE agent. You make one of those people feel useful, and then you can extract and use whatever celebrity they have left. You can say, hey, Superman's an ICE agent. There can't be that much wrong with it. Hey, how bad can we be if the lady who made Super Bass is on stage with us? Right? That matters to them because they're grasping at school.

[B]

I get why it matters to them, of course.

[A]

And for her. For her, I'm sitting down and being taken seriously in a very serious political movement. Before this, I got to talk at the United Nations. I'm not absolving her for anything or making excuses. What I'm saying is that in all of this stuff, these are calculations that are being made on behalf of one person. What I always think. What I always think, it's about the people. I always think about the ones that went, damn, I'm wearing the pink wig. I'm roaming for Halloween. I'm also a young LGBTQ plus person that has put myself into this. You're right. She has been problematic for a very long time, and they have stuck with her. We have people that we like that have been problematic or there are problems surrounding them, and we've stuck with them, and we've stuck with them, and we don't want to believe the bad things about them, and we don't want to talk about them, and we get caught out when that type of stuff happens. When that. When that type of stuff happens. I get what you're saying. I just look at people and go, damn, it's hard to put Your toys away. It is. It's hard to put them away. Maybe some people won't. Maybe some people will.

[B]

I get it. You don't want to believe that somebody that you put so much energy, faith damn near into would turn out to be this way. I get it. I'd get it more if it were new. That's all I'm saying.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

And I get it more. Maybe if I wasn't somebody who, like, I started off this saying, I don't have much to say because I'm just like. I look at Nicki Minaj at this point as somebody whose opinion does not matter to me, but it does to your point, to the people sitting in that room, as long as she is uplifting them and putting down another community. So I get upset when you are talking about something that. I don't know if endangered is too big of a word, but yeah, when you allow people to think something untrue about me, and that can particularly be dangerous.

[A]

Donnie, let's talk about Dave Chappelle.

[C]

Yeah. He released a new comedy special called the Unstoppable. It was a surprise drop on Netflix after the Jake Paul fight. Jake Paul's loss, which we'll talk about later. Did you guys get to watch the special? I hadn't had time to catch it yet.

[A]

I watched it.

[B]

I watched it.

[A]

What'd you think? The kids here loved it. Jade, who? Jay was a bard, by the way.

[B]

Keyword being was Jay.

[A]

When did you stop being a bard?

[B]

Maybe like a couple years ago.

[A]

Stuck around through some of the tough times.

[B]

I was ahead. Well, yeah, you always initially do because you're like, maybe that was a one off. Maybe they'll apologize. But you had to. You're right. Cause I grew up listening to Nikki. Nicki was the only, like, female rapper growing up that. I mean, I was 10 when she first came out with her Pink Friday album. So big, big fan. But, yeah, I had to. I had to throw that one away.

[A]

Damn tough. But Jade and Bernard, y' all both liked the Dave Chappelle Special?

[B]

Yeah, I liked it.

[A]

What did you. What'd you think, Rachel?

[B]

Davey Chappelle, D.C. well, first off, I thought it was a wonderful surprise after watching such a wonderful fight. I thought, wow, what a way to go into from this fight into watching this surprise Dave Chappelle special. It's beautiful. Cherry on top. I understand. I just want to say this, that Dave Chappelle, some people find him offensive. And I understand he says things that for the very reason I just said that Nicki Minaj says things to people that make me feel like it endangers my community because it allows people to think a certain way. I totally understand how. And I'm particularly talking about the trans community. I understand how they feel like the rhetoric that Dave Chappelle says on stage makes them feel in danger. This is a new. We've talked about it multiple times. We talked about it before on our podcast, where he tells the story about the friend that he lost. I don't believe that that is what he's trying to do. I understand the storytelling that he does with it, but I also can understand how somebody totally feels offended by that. I thought it was a brilliant special. I don't think anybody tells a story like Dave Chappelle. I think that what he does is so layered. I think that it. I learned something. I can't say that there's a comedian that I watch that I actually learn something about, whether it's political, whether it's historic, whether it's about their personal life, whether it's about a public figure. There's just always something that's so captivating and interesting and so brilliant about what he does on stage. This one in particular, more than some of the other ones, when he's talking about Jack Johnson, when he's talking about Charlie Barnett. Really, really found that fascinating in that he brought it back to present day. I thought it was great.

[C]

You.

[A]

So Dave basically just doing therapy sessions on stage now?

[B]

Yeah, it was heavy. He had a lot to say.

[A]

Yeah, Dave gets to. It seems like to me, Dave gets to a critical mass where he's. He's always doing shows and stuff where he has all these observations. He just gives them to the world. It's not necessarily comedy anymore. There's not very much that's funny in it. You know, it's not. I'm not laughing a lot when I. When I watch it. It. Dave Chappelle's power to me is partly now based upon reputation, partly is because it. If you go back and you look at Dave Chappelle's older stuff, then you're laughing. I mean, you're laughing like you are laughing.

[B]

Sure, sure.

[A]

Okay. Now, he is one of our most powerful cultural lecturers, one of our most powerful users of the language that helps us recontextualize what we're in. We'll say this. Talking about Dave Chappelle right after talking about Nicki Minaj is interesting because Dave Chappelle graduated in this special. And I don't know if a lot of people are cognizant of it. In Dave Chappelle's latest trans joke, Dave killed a trans person. And I'm sorry to be the wet blanket for everybody that loved the special, but that's an escalation. It just is. What the fuck? It is. In Dave's latest joke, he does the joke. The falcon goes up into the air, the falcon comes down. The falcon kills the translate in the audience.

[B]

Did it kill her?

[A]

Kills the translatey in the audience. His bitch kills her, kills the translator in the audience. And because we're in Saudi Arabia, nobody cares or whatever, however the joke goes. And you guys can play the joke if you want. So, by the way, by the way, here's the deal. I'm not pearl clutching. I'm not. I'm not pearl clutching. Maybe I should be. I'm not pearl clutching. Dave has groomed me to his style of comedy, and his style of comedy is one that is unsafe. It's not safe. It's also not for everyone. But on the heels of the conversation we just had, what I am trying to say is that we all have people that it is difficult for us to be like, banish, banish, banish. Go, go, go. And it's never about the differences that we have with those people. It's about the similarities. And the reality is this. Dave Chappelle reminds you of the smartest, funniest guy that you knew in the town that you're from. The dude that always has something to say that you didn't know, that he knew, the dude that was funny without even trying, the guy that you just wanted to talk to. That is why when Dave goes left or when Dave goes right or when Dave goes too far forward, we accept it. We trust and love Dave Chappelle.

[C]

And.

[A]

And when I'm watching what it is that he's doing, I'm seeing a couple of gigantic contradictions. Number one, the trans stuff, when you, when you joke, just to be real, when you joke like that, that cavalierly about the death of. It just makes trans people less safe. It's just a fact. No, maybe, maybe we're totally saying maybe. We're past the cultural conversation of that. And I'm not, I'm. I'm def. I'm not pearl clutching. But even the Saudi Arabia stuff, did it fill me up with glee and joy to see Dave Chappelle say fuck Bill Maher? It did. But Dave stood on stage and laundered through his comedy and his charm. What are accurate criticisms about him performing in Riyadh or performing around? Accurate criticisms when I say accurate. Let me not say accurate. Let me say fair criticisms. Now, once again, these criticisms aren't going to be leveled by me directly because I've watched the boxing of Riyadh, I've seen soccer on and all of that stuff. There is a direct intention by mbs, who is the royal family of Saudi Arabia to sports wash and entertainment wash what they got going on and all of that stuff. I'm not here to slap people on the wrist about Jamal Khashoggi or do any of that stuff. That's not what I'm here to do. What I am here to do is give what I feel to be is accurate analysis of one of the most consequential people in culture. And if I'm being accurate about it, Dave's still on the stage and told a lot of intellectual lies. Said that he is safer to talk his shit in America in Saudi Arabia than he is in America. Or that you can talk your shit more freely in Saudi Arabia than you can in America.

[B]

I don't think he said you can. I think he said he can, which is a difference.

[A]

Well, but really there's no difference because the criticism. And you're right, but the criticism is a cultural criticism of America versus Saudi Arabia. I am not in any way about to defend. Your right to freedom and expression in America is under attack. But then somebody as smart as Dave Chappelle can't defend that in Saudi Arabia. I don't give a fuck if you on the stage.

[B]

Did you feel like he was defending as much as he was like. Cuz this is how I took it more than I thought he was defending Saudi Arabia or what he did. I felt like he was pointing out how hypocritical it is for you to tell me how wrong I am. When you live in a country that does a lot of wrong as well. Not that it's necessarily the same wrong. Right. Because people look at sins in different ways. But I'm just. Or wrongdoings in different ways. But I looked at it as he was calling out the hypocrisy. I'm not saying I agree with him, but that's how I looked at it. More than him saying it that way. The way that you're saying I want.

[A]

To say something but I don't want to be offensive.

[B]

Say it.

[A]

This is how people get talked out the pussy. When you're saying something that feels like you're making a connection with somebody, but it's for your own gratification. This is exactly what happens. Like David Standing on the stage. After years, years of making jokes about a marginalized, endangered community and talking about the freedom of those jokes. And he's right about his freedom to tell jokes. Everybody is right about their freedom to tell jokes, not just Dave. Andrew is right. Jezelnick is right. Rogan is right. Kill Tony. Tony Hinchcliffe is right. All of the people whose comedy and stuff like that that you despise and abhor, they're right about their freedom to do their comedy. The right. Right. So the freedom of expression and what he can say and how he can say and how important that is and how there shouldn't be any societal and definitely governmental repercussions for doing that. He gives that whole thing to us for years because he. He wants to tell these jokes. Then he talks about how safe he feels telling jokes in Saudi Arabia or how he's much safer in Saudi Arabia. People have been arrested and imprisoned for criticizing the Crown Prince, advocating for women's rights, questioning religious authorities, retweeting dissidents for private WhatsApp messages, anonymous social media accounts, talking to foreign journalists for advocating for human rights. How is this done in Saudi Arabia? It's done through actual legislation, laws. An anti terrorism law that defines terrorism so broadly, that tweets, satire, or criticism can qualify. A cybercrime law that criminalizes content that harms public order, religious value, or national unity, Royal decrees that allow punishment without transparent judicial standards. All of that is the way that it goes. I am not standing on high as an American and criticizing Saudi Arabia's country and culture because the way my people have been treated in this country and this country and culture for so long, I can't do that. But what I can say is, Dave Chappelle did that for money.

[B]

Oh, no, he definitely did it for money. He says it. He says on the stage he did it.

[A]

So what I think is interesting is that somebody could do something for one reason and then come back to us and then use his talent and his gift to launder the reason that he did something. And it's not. I'm not offended by it, but I'm like, look at the people. Swallow this shit. All this nigga spitting, this nigga talking. Dave Chappelle is very, very gifted. Dave Chappelle is very rich. He's enormously talented. And what he did would stand on the stage and in a lot of different ways, do the same thing he's always done, which is get his audience to lift their dress up over their head, over their eyes, and over their ears. And to me, it's cool. It's like, I enjoyed it. I enjoyed it. It was great. But, like, what are we talking about?

[B]

I just don't. Okay, you're not wrong. But I didn't watch it and think, well, he has a point. He calls himself a capitalist. He talks about buying up a town and makes a joke about people who can't afford to live in it. He talks about when he goes to Saudi Arabia. He is there. He makes a lot of money. He's like, I don't even need Netflix. I'll wait for them to call me back. And I'm gonna go. They only used me in the headlines because I made more money than all the other comedians there. He's literally telling you who he is. So it wasn't like it was pulled. It wasn't for me. Like, I watched it, and I was like, oh, all that washed away, or he pulled the wool over my eyes or anything. I just understood the comparison that he was making for some people who come down on him. And I'm not saying that, again, the criticism is fair for all the reasons that you just said, for the laws that exist within Saudi Arabia. Arabia. Absolutely. I just understood the comparison of the hypocrisy of what he was saying. As if people's hands are clean when they're criticizing him. That's all I'm saying. I understood. I wasn't like. I didn't like, oh, my gosh, he's so right. Like, he should continue to go to Saudi Arabia. And I think a lot of people fell that way. I think it's wrong to say that if they have maybe the same takeaway that I did with that, that they're like, okay, he's okay to go to Saudi Arabia. I don't still necessarily agree with it, but I think that one thing maybe people look past is Dave Chappelle said a lot of things about himself on that stage that are very true, that aren't necessarily something to uplift.

[A]

Love, Dave Chappelle. I thought that. This is what I'm saying. To me, it's easier to get with people calling. By the way, once again, I'm not saying. I'm not criticizing anybody that went to Riyadh because. Because you consume it of my own. My own hypocrisy. I think the specific difference that people had with this stuff over the boxing and over some of the other stuff that's going on, the specific difference is that these are people who say that they live and die for free speech. And if they say that they live and Die for free speech. Why would they go and perform and all that stuff in a place where free speech is literally punishable by death? If you're Jamal Khashoggi. Right, Whatever. Once again, I'm. That's for them to do. Like, I'm not. It's their thing, like comics that I love. Bill Burr did it. There's not a comic I love in the world more than Bill Burr. You know who else I love? If. If, like, I'm in a white comedy heyday right now.

[B]

Okay, who else do you like?

[A]

I like Nate Bargazi.

[B]

He's good.

[A]

I like Sebastian. What the. What are you doing?

[B]

Are you just getting into Sebastian?

[A]

So I've. I've watched a couple of Sebastian's specials, and the way he talks about his dad is. My dad looks at me, he goes, well, you're drinking. You looked up like, his dad is with him. My dad used to do that. My dad used to see me, and he would know that I was drunk or high. He'd be like, oh, okay, okay. We. We partying drunk. Look at this drunk ass. Come out here and dance. Dance drunk. You want to be drunk in front of your whole family? Do a little dance for him. It's like. Well, my dad used to talk to me, but, you know, people doing whatever they do for their careers, man, we're all working for corporations and all of that stuff and get it like that. But. But the one thing that I don't like more than anything is a nigga talking to me like I'm stupid.

[B]

You think that's what he do?

[A]

Yeah. He talked to everyone up there with his power and who he is. That was a trumpish. Like, I'm saying, that was a trumpish. Up there, standing there leveraging the power and all of that.

[B]

Did you feel stupid when you watched it?

[A]

I never feel stupid exactly. But I don't like people talking to me like I am.

[B]

I felt like he was being very upfront.

[A]

Yeah. Like, so to me, like, that whole thing is enveloped around. I mean, a lot of the other stuff, though, you know, I know a lot about entertainment and stuff like that, so. The Jack Johnson thing, knew it. Charlie Bartlett knew it. I'd seen DC Cab a million times, know about these guys, know about these people and all of that stuff like that. I learn a lot of stuff from Dave, but the stuff that I learned are more these brilliant introspections on society and how you actually live in the state of hypocrisy that I talk about the fact that I live in But I just. Once again, it's hard to give up your toys. And in. In this situation where he gets up there and talks about all of that stuff, There's a lot of people as we land Base, Nicki Minaj or Snoop or. We got our people too. That it. That it don't matter what they say or do. It don't matter that we. It's the same thing. So, like, when we talk about hypocrisy and all of that, I'm not necessarily talking about you right now, because this is a Christmas miracle that we're doing this podcast. I'm talking about the entire deal. It's just about who you let lie to you. It is. And Dave is brilliant, and I'm always gonna fuck with Dave, but the reality is the joke. And we can make sure somebody go pull up the trans joke. But when I saw that, I was.

[B]

Like, ooh, anytime he talks about trans people, I always am like, oh, gosh, what is this gonna do? For the very reason I said at the top of the podcast, it allows people to laugh at a group of people who are oppressed.

[A]

And I've laughed at trans jokes. I'm not. I'm not being purity. I'm not being purity. I laugh at jokes about trans people. I laugh at jokes about black people. I laugh at jokes about Mexican people. I laugh at these jokes. I'm not in any way, but I'm.

[B]

Saying it's like, I understand how it's harmful every time. I'm like, oh, gosh, you know, here we go. But I didn't feel like he was talking to people like they were stupid. I felt like he was being insanely honest. Like, I was actually surprised at some of the things that he was saying. Now, how if somebody interprets it a certain way, like. But I didn't feel like he was talking down to me. I was like, he's literally saying everything. Okay, that's just how. But again, you know, I do really like the storytelling. I like that type of comedy. I like when people sit and they just talk to you.

[A]

Go on a journey. Take you on a journey. It was funny to go around his town in Yellow Springs and all of that stuff. It got to a point where there was a lot of meandering and all of that stuff that was going on. But in order to get to that, to get to the point to where he is, you gotta be able to. Who am I to criticize somebody meandering? I do it just not nearly as well as what he does.

[F]

This episode is Brought to you by Whole Foods Market. You'll find everything you need for the holidays at Whole Foods Market. If you're entertaining, explore limited time seasonal desserts like the holiday rum cake and much more. For the main event. Serve show stopping centerpiece mains like bone in spiral cut ham and their bone in rib roast, succulent and special. They've even got great gifts like seasonal candles from 365 brand at everyday low prices. In a hurry, skip the crowds and order online for pickup and delivery and select zip codes. Shop for everything you need at a Whole Foods Market, your holiday headquarters. This episode is brought to you by EA Sports FC 26. Play your way this holiday season with an overhauled gameplay experience powered by community feedback. Enjoy festive upgrades and ultimate team with winter wild cards. Take on holiday themed challenges and manage your career like navigating the busy Christmas period. And team up with friends and clubs with new tournaments and live events. The club is yours. Give the gift of football with EA Sports FC 26. Rated E for everyone. Includes in game purchases. Includes random items.

[A]

Donnie, what's your opinion of the streets?

[C]

They exist. I mean they're out there. I'm not a part of it. So yeah, to each his own.

[A]

Rachel.

[B]

I mean I'm with Donnie. I'm not like I'm obviously not in the streets from the streets in that way, but Donnie lead us into the topic so people could understand what it is we're talking about. Yeah.

[C]

This came from 21savage. He tweeted @ Gunna and Young Thug trying to broker peace between the two former friends. His tweet says, I mean this is a long ass run on sentence. Hold on, no punctuation. Y' all fix that. Y' all love each other. You knew Gunna wasn't no gangster, but when he told the first time and we swept it under the rug for you, you know, we, you know he wasn't trying to leave you to hang. Nigga, fuck the streets. We ain't get shit out. We ain't get shit but trauma from that shit. There we go. And then Young Thug replied to this, the streets. So it had the social medias in a frenzy and whatnot over the.

[B]

Weekend. So 21 Savage was on a live with someone and he said, I didn't mean the streets, I meant save the streets. He's like, I shouldn't have said it that way. Maybe I said it too fast, but I meant save the streets. Does knowing that change your opinion on I don't even know where you stand when it comes to this because a lot of people. There were a lot of people who supported.

[A]

21G. Herbo came out and said fuck the.

[B]

Streets. Meek.

[A]

Mills. Meek Mills said fuck the.

[B]

Streets. Yeah. And then there were other people who were very.

[A]

Upset. Bootsy Queen's Flip 5 Year Old Foreign came out and talked about why you can't say fuck the streets, why.

[B]

You can't say, yeah, yeah. And a lot of that criticism was like, all right, well, if that's how you feel, then you need to stop rapping about the streets. But I understood some of the things that I saw. 21 Savage and like, in regards to the album, what happened to the Streets and all of that, where he was talking about how, you know, he has lost a lot of people to a certain mentality. And he understands that the streets, it's more than. It's not just about being in the streets. It's about the. The culture, it's about the community. And he wants in essence, to save it. And where people don't die at the hands of some of this mentality when it comes to beefs, when it comes to drugs, when it comes to whatever it may be, he's like, we should. It should be. Bet we should be better than that. So I. If that's how he feels, then I. Then I understand it. But again, who am.

[A]

I? I'm not no.

[B]

Street. Who am.

[A]

I? You know, I grew up in Baton Rouge where if you throw a rock, you hit like five street niggas. They all in your family, your street dudes and all of that stuff. They're around you. And it's funny, I never heard of all the street guys that I know that have grow, grew up with, been around. I have never heard how awesome the streets were from a street dude. The people that told me how awesome the streets were were these rappers. Yeah, but. Only thing I ever heard is, don't play around. Don't mess around with this, man. I had a dude, I'm not gonna mention his name. He passed on now it's killed. Before I even left Baton Rouge. Used to. We used to ride to school together and he had a.380. And it was funny because we would shoot the 380 and the 380 would jam. In order to clear the jam, you'd have to take the gun and throw it on the ground to clear the jam. And then we pick it up and we'd be shooting it again. My fingerprints all over the goddamn gun. What the hell was going on, man? Sorry, dad, but my dad loved this guy. But he would come, he would bring me to school, and my dad would give him a couple dollars every now and again. Hey, man, I appreciate you picking up Van and taking him to school. My dad would leave. My man would be. Be like, hey, man, man, bro, you a. You a cool ass, bro. You a cool ass. I don't want to see you doing no dirt. I never forget this dude in particular. I saw him. I showed him the dogs, the hunting dogs that we had, and he looked at the dogs. I remember him staring in front of the dog, standing in front of the dog pen looking at the dogs. He was like, man, what y' all do with them? I was like, yeah, we hunt rabbits with them. It's like, you hunt rabbits with the dogs? So, yeah, he was like, that one right there looked like Snoopy. And I was like, yeah, man, Snoopy. Snoopy. A beagle. These are beagles. Like, these are beagles. Snoopy is a beagle. Like, he's dumb. Like, I didn't say that. But he goes, look like people. He goes, man, I ain't gonna lie, bro. You wanted to. You one of the coolest around here, bro. It's like, you got the dogs. You got your daddy. He's like, man, I don't want to catch you doing no dirt, bro. Like, I don't. I don't. I don't. Like, I don't want to catch you doing no dirt. So, like, the guys that were around me, the. The street that were around me, they never were like, hey, the most awesome thing in the world is. Getting arrested is awesome. Like, the most awesome thing they. They. They believed in what they did. They committed to what they did. But the people that was telling that I heard, if you ain't a thug, you ain't. The people that I heard that if you ain't getting money, you ain't. That was from these rappers. They the ones, to me, that mainline the idea that you had to have a certain ethos or mentality to fit into something. That's why I heard that from. I never, ever visited someone in prison that told me, hey, you know what? This is where you want to be. So from the street guys that I talked about that I knew, it was kind of always the streets. There were some people that I knew, obviously, that like to hurt people. And there were some people that I knew obviously, that kind of. They was getting money and they liked to get it right. But at the same time, it wasn't. I. I wasn't around a lot of people that was like, hey, man, you Know what you need to do? You need to come over here and get some of this. These were dudes that got caught up into a situation. They were a part of that situation. It was what, what was available to them. The same way you see a lot of NBA guys, their sons are now NBA players. If this is what the cultural business is, you get involved in it. But I, I, I, when I hear this, this is like par for the course for me. This is what I remember. So if, if we having a the Streets conversation, Hip hop needs to have that conversation with that. Hip hop needs to have a conversation about what it is that we put on Front street and made it seem like. Not that it was a part of life, because the streets and the community that reflects those streets are a part of life. This is why it's difficult for me to identify with a mentality that just throws away people who made mistakes. My grandmother didn't do that. She didn't throw away her sons. Like, the people that I know in my community, we never did that. We never saw you get in trouble for doing something and then just throw you away. We kept your room the same while you was gone, and then you came home. We wanted you to be comfortable. We believed, we hoped, we prayed for you while you were doing the things that you were doing. So if that's the Streets, I get it. If that's a part of it, I get it. But, like, as far as all of this other stuff, making young men feel like they gotta go out and do something or live up to something because of all of that, that shit comes from you rappers, and you rappers need to deal with.

[B]

That. I think, like, a lot of people, not a lot of people, but some of the people who were offended, it felt like they were when he said it, they felt it personal, like he's saying, fuck me, fuck. And he goes on to explain it's not that. And I think that we, Hip hop has to have a conversation where it's okay to call out some problematic mentalities in order to save people, which is what I believe that he was trying to do. And I find it interesting too, because you're so right about. When you talk about people who don't, you know, I'm not saying. I think we all know I'm not from the Streets, but it doesn't mean that I haven't been around certain people. And you're right, I haven't heard anybody glorify it in that way, particularly family members that have gotten in trouble that I've been around or that they've come back out and I've been around and all of that and hear them talk about it. But the people who are getting upset, you leave when you don't stay in the streets, right? You might be from the streets. The people who are taking it literally, right. And are not understanding what I really believe. 21 Savage is trying to say, you're from the streets, but you're still not in the streets. You leave it, you go, you leave it, you move out the neighborhood, you go on, you do other things. And you might talk about your experience where you from, but you better yourself and you don't stay in that mentality. So how do you not understand what it is that 21 Savage is trying to say? It's like you, you move on from that space, but then you get mad at him for saying, I'm just trying to promote peace, protection, a better life, that we don't need to adhere to a certain code just to say that we're adhering to it. We need to protect our young people. That's why you leave or you and you, or you give money and you pour back into the community, but you don't stay in that.

[A]

Place. Well, I. Look, so I did my research on this. I had a conversation with some of my street homies that are. Some of them are incarcerated right now, and then some of them, you know, wearing the scars. And this has always been my problem with the streets is the success rate ain't high.

[B]

Enough for people in the.

[A]

Streets. Look, my, my problem with the streets, the entire lifestyle, is that the success rate ain't high enough. I'm too, I look at it, I'm like, well, I mean, if you can show me an abundance of people who have done it and then on the other side of it, families, businesses, all of that stuff, then whatever. But. But if you can't, then I'm like, no. Now, once again, and we have to continue to reiterate this, human beings are the result of choice. Matrices give you an example of that. The choice between doctor and lawyer is a lot different between the choice between doctor and drug dealer. If the, the choice between doctor and lawyer, those are two very comparable lifestyles. Like, it's really more of a choice of how you want to work, what you want to contribute, right? If you're going to be a doctor, then it's like, I want to save people. I want to do all of this stuff like that. You know, I want to drain people's money through unfair and corrupt health care system. But you're a doctor, you're helping people. If you're a lawyer, then, you know, I want to work in this way. I want to use law. I want to experience law. I want to gain whatever, Whatever. But doctor and drug dealer, lawyer and drug dealer, there's a gulf. It's a completely different. It's two totally different lifestyles. One involves, most of the time, incredible longevity, building all of that. The other one is a constant battle for your freedom, your safety, and who you are. It's a totally different thing. So the choice matrix for people is not doctor versus lawyer. When you have to make a choice between doctor and drug dealer or drug dealer and guy that works at the car wash. These choice matrixes is what create these outcomes. Right? The streets. Create the streets. It's like you walk by the lake. I've said this before. You walk by the lake, see a fish turned up in the lake. You go, what's wrong with that fish? You walk by the lake, you see a thousand fish turned up in the lake. You go, what's wrong with the lake? Our lakes are polluted. Our lakes are the streets. And we got to fix that. But part of fixing it, part of is realizing that we have been given a weirdly glorified, kind of sanitized and definitely shiny version of all of this, this cultural omerta that exists. Not even the Italian mobsters could keep their omerta. We talking about who's snitching? We're talking about who's snitching right now. All this conversation over Hugh snitching. This Sicilian omerta that existed when it came over from Italy here to America was to protect the structure of organized crime. The government beat them. The government said, hey, you know.

[C]

What?

[A]

Cool. You guys aren't going to talk nice, well, this is what we'll do. We'll write a law that says if you're involved in this at all, then you're responsible for everything that goes on. They started flipping immediately. Took about 10 years. The RICO comes in 71. By the time we get to the 80s, the Gambino underboss is talking to the feds. They started flipping immediately. This is not a lot of people that you gonna say, hey, I'm gonna go do a hundred years in prison for some bullshit that I did on behalf of somebody else. So all of that's a lie. But do you know how you make people believe it's the most important thing in the world? You put it in culture. You rapping in something, you put a beat behind it now you gotta have this now. You gotta do this now. The materialism and the capitalism and all of that stuff, all of this stuff, man, is part of this grand societal brainwashing. And it's not that they doing it on purpose. Once again, they are like products of something that is familiar to them. They're products of something that's familiar. They're proud that they survived.

[B]

Anybody. But that's fine to talk about, right? You survived it. This is your life. This is how you grew up. But guess what? You don't live that life anymore. You didn't want to stay in that life. So why do you not understand what somebody like 21 Savage is trying to say? And that's why he has clarified. I meant save it. I'm not saying fuck the people, I'm saying fuck the mentality. And we should all get behind.

[A]

That. Well, I'm. This is what I'm saying. I can't say fuck it. Like, I'm not, it's. I'm not, I'm not in a place to, to like. I don't talk about street. I don't talk about street. Y' all hear us on here talking about who snitched and who did all of that stuff. Like you. The thing is, if you were growing up in proximity to that, you have to have respect for it. But the reason why you have respect for it is the same reason that if you live in the Serengeti, you have to have respect for the lion, because the lion will kill.

[B]

You. I was about to.

[A]

Say. Right? So you have to have respect for it. You don't play around in it, you don't diss it, you try to stay out of it. And if need be, just like the lion, you run from it. But what I will say is the streets being what they are, we need to go in and have conversations about how we give these brothers and sisters better choices. But at the same time, we also need to have conversations about what has been done to make some people who have no business fucking around in this shit like this think that it's cool to do it. And we also need to have conversations about how some of us get programmed, like I've been programmed in different ways to do stuff that's at cross purposes with our long term survival. Even what you're saying, these guys don't fuck around in the streets? They kind of do. Because when you think about these rappers and all of these guys, think about what thug was just going through, think about what, why we're having this conversation. We're having this conversation because Thug, who became. Who beat the odds in almost every way to become one of the defining hip hop acts of his generation, was still fucking.

[B]

Around. He.

[A]

Was. Yeah, you want me to. I can give you a list now of not just guys that were fucking around, but guys that are finito.

[B]

Gone. Well, yeah, I'm continuing to fuck around. That's his message I'm calling out. I guess, like, I'm really talking about boosie and all of this. But like, I guess I'm just. I'm saying that there are rappers. Just like you can give a list of rappers that are still in the streets or are no longer with us, which is the point I think that 21 is trying to make. Cause he specifically calls out gunna and Young Thug in a tweet. I'm saying that there are rappers who have, like, look at some of the OGs. They're not there anymore. They're not in it. Like, they move on even though they came from the.

[A]

Streets. Yeah, some of them do. And that's what. And I think the older you get, the more. But we also got older guys in this game. Let's. We. Let's be real. That's still selling. That street lifestyle is something that we should look up to. So, look, I'm not telling people to. I'm telling people that the way I look at life is I don't live my life in judgment. I don't live my life in judgment of stuff for people, But I do live my life in analysis. And judgment and analysis, two different things. Like analyze whether or not you think something's going to work for you. And if somebody tells you something that's going to lead to you being in a specific situation is cool, then analyze them. So you come to me and you tell me right now. I'm gonna tell you straight up. I'm gonna tell you straight up that working at a call center is better than doing something that's gonna end up having your mama come visit you behind bars and you crying. Her crying. I'm gonna tell you that you have. Have so many opportunities in life other than something that's gonna be debilitating to you and to your family that's gonna have you working behind bars for somebody who designed society to put you there. I'm not blaming you for the choices that you're giving that are in front of you. I'm saying let's work together. Work with me. And don't believe what these niggas put. Cause these niggas is.

[B]

Rich. And talking about exactly that part.

[A]

Too. What else we got? Oh, Jake.

[C]

Paul. Yeah, let's do that. We hinted at it earlier. The Netflix fight. Anthony Joshua fought Jake Paul on Netflix, gave him a decisive win. I know y' all watched the fight. What were y' all thoughts on seeing Jake Paul take that, that.

[B]

Loss? I was watching Anthony.

[A]

Joshua. Yeah. This is the.

[B]

Thing. I was not familiar with Anthony Joshua or his game. I wasn't. I did not know. I'm not into boxing, right. And he's not even from here. But man, from the moment he walked out, I said, oh my God.

[A]

This is so funny to.

[B]

Me. Who is this beautiful specimen? I mean, everything about him. Now, of course, I'm not a fan of the Paul's, so I was already just rooting for. I was like, please let him get knocked out. I was so happy to see him actually fighting somebody of that wasn't in their 50s. That was. He was also bigger than him. He had a longer reach than him. Like, I just. He was all outsized. Decent age. How old is Jake.

[A]

Paul? Like mid to late 20s, I.

[B]

Think. Oh, he's not even 30.

[A]

Yet. I don't think he.

[B]

Is. I think Joshua was what, like 37, 30. I don't know, somewhere.

[A]

Around. Josh was like 35.

[B]

36. Okay. So somebody closer to him in age. I was happy to see a. Not just a better.

[A]

Matchup. Josh was 36.

[B]

Yes. Okay. Not just a better matchup, but just a matchup where the odds were against Jake Paul more than we've, than we've seen him do in some of these other celebrity matchups. Not everybody. Not everybody. Jake Paul is like that. But. But it was nice to see that. So I was there. But I was really just there and stayed for Anthony Joshua. I'm sorry, I went down a dark hole. I looked at his Instagram. I was like, who is this man? It's just shocking what's out there. And you just have no.

[A]

Idea. This is so funny to me. So big boxing fan, right? So if you are a boxing fan and I love the horniness of black ladies when.

[B]

Black. All the.

[A]

Ladies. When black women. When black women are horny, it is like nothing else. I love watching black women who have been told to suppress their sexuality get horny. They're in their seats, they're slipping around, all of that stuff. I like to see that. It's interesting in this case because Anthony Joshua was at the end of his career, like.

[B]

Yes. I didn't know.

[A]

That. All of the boxing fans have watched Anthony Joshua on His rise when he has this epic fight with Vladimir Klitschko back in the day, captures, you know, heavyweight championship. Captured it before then. But he has his epic fight with Vladimir Klitschko. He loses to Andy Ruiz. He comes back and he beats Andy Ruiz. He then fights Oleksandr Usyk twice, loses twice. Then he gets knocked down by Dillian White. We've watched AJ become aj, that's his nickname. We've watched AJ become somewhat of a feeble figure in boxing. Like, AJ's got a weak chin, they say. They say AJ's got a weak mentality, but like, it shows you how niche of a sport boxing is now. Because the one thing that people see when they see Anthony Joshua is, God damn, this nigga look crazy buff, handsome. This is the reason why he is such a big star in the uk. And I think about it now, the fact that black women responded like this, to this means that they had never seen Anthony Joshua. This means one.

[B]

Thing.

[A]

What? Jake Paul is the biggest star in.

[B]

Boxing. Okay. I know who other boxers.

[A]

Are. No, no. Like the fact that they don't.

[B]

Even live in this.

[A]

Country. Hold on, wait, wait, wait, wait. Right? The fact that so many people did not know who the heavyweight champion of the world was or former two time heavyweight champion of the world, that's this sexy and this brolic and all of that. The fact that they didn't know who this person was until he fought Jake Paul tells you that Jake Paul is the biggest.

[B]

Star. Just say that boxing is a niche.

[A]

Sport. Well, what I'm saying is that like. But it's. But you're watching Jake Paul.

[B]

Fight. I watched it because I wanted to see him get his ass knocked out. But this is the thing. I don't know Jake Paul because he is a boxer. I know Jake Paul because he was an.

[A]

Influencer. Can I say.

[B]

Again? So it's not that.

[A]

He'S. I can't say that Jake Paul is the biggest boxer or the biggest boxing star. I said very directly that Jake Paul is the biggest star in.

[B]

Boxing. Is that how you just said.

[A]

It? That's exactly what I.

[B]

Said. I thought you just said he's the biggest.

[C]

Boxer. Did he.

[B]

Not? Bernard, you literally said he's the biggest boxer in the world. You said, this means one thing to me. Jake Paul is the biggest boxer in the world. And now you're saying he's the biggest star. So which.

[A]

One? Okay, so let me tell you something right now. I don't. This is going to prove what my mental acuity is. I'm almost certain I said that Jake Paul is the biggest star in boxing. But we won't know until we get the opportunity to run the tape back. I'm almost certain that I said Jake Paul is the biggest star in.

[B]

Boxing. I heard you say.

[A]

Donnie. What did I.

[C]

Say? We got to run it back. I'm confused. I don't.

[A]

Remember. I don't know. Jake Paul is the biggest star in.

[B]

Boxing. The point you're making is, and I guess I heard you say he's the biggest boxer in the world, or if you said he's the biggest star in boxing, to me that means the biggest. He's the most known boxer. Right. That's the.

[A]

Point. Do you know what makes a boxing star, to me, a big star in boxing is the ability to make another one. When did Floyd Mayweather Jr. Become the a side of all of his fights? Floyd Mayweather Jr. You know.

[B]

When. When he.

[A]

Fought. I give you so much.

[B]

Credit. No, no, no, no, Wait, hold on. Manny.

[A]

Pacquiao. No, that's. So let me tell you. Let me tell you. When Floyd became the A side, so Floyd was coming up through the ranks. Boom, boom, boom, boom. Floyd fought Oscar De La.

[B]

Hoya.

[A]

Okay? And when Floyd fought Oscar De La Hoya, it was kind of like the fight to save boxing and all of that stuff like that. But when Floyd fought Oscar De La Hoya, so many more people saw Floyd in that fight because they were there to see who was the biggest star in boxing, even though he wasn't the best boxer in the world. A cash cow. And Oscar De La Hoya. Oscar De La Hoya, to everybody beyond regular boxing fans, kind of broke Floyd Mayweather to the overall cultural landscape. And then for the rest of the time, Floyd's not an A side. He was the B side in the Oscar De La Hoya fight. But I'm watching so many people. And part of that is because it's on.

[B]

Netflix.

[A]

Yeah. And it's free. And you don't have to buy it.

[B]

Right. For.

[A]

Sure. But part of that is because. On Netflix. But part of the reason why Jake Paul can carry a Netflix fight is because he's Jake Paul. So Jake Paul, to your point earlier, you want to see him get his ass kicked. That's part of the equation with any boxer. With any boxer, part of the equation is the outcome of the fight being.

[B]

Consequential.

[A]

Sure. You go there to see them win. You go there to see them lose. So with this, the fact that Jake Paul was able to make himself reviled and make himself into this figure that everybody hates and then get all types of people to watch a fight that they wouldn't have otherwise watched. Y' all even know who Anthony Joshua was? He is the one guy in the sport right now, love it or hate it, that can actually draw people who don't give a fuck about boxing because this guy has been fined for fucking 10, 15.

[D]

Years.

[B]

Okay? So to be clear, I didn't sit down and say I'm about to watch this fight because I want to see Jake Paul get his ass beat. Somebody else was watching the fight and I walked in and I said, who is that? And I stayed for Anthony Joshua and I every. And I hurt because otherwise I could have just gotten that he got his ass knocked out on social media. I would have been, I don't, I don't, I don't care about him, him getting beat that much to where I'm gonna sit down and watch it. But once I saw Anthony Joshua, I mean, like I'm saying this now, but I was like, oh yeah, let me say, let me go ahead and.

[A]

Stay, but that's my thing. And when I thought about that, I thought about the fact that Eddie Hearn, who is Anthony Joshua's. Yeah, yeah, his manager, his.

[B]

Promoter. See, I know that now Eddie.

[A]

Hurt. But see all of these people, like that tells me that there is still that number one. Netflix is going to be really good for boxing. Number one. Because there are some things that have changed in the sport in terms of like how many streaming services you have to have. You have to buy all the fights. So how are people going to really see Anthony Joshua if they had to buy his fights? He wasn't playing, whatever. But also there wasn't, he hadn't penetrated American.

[B]

Culture. American.

[A]

Culture. And now there's a lot of black lady that want him to penetrate American culture really, really deeply and for a long time. So like, so when I'm, I saw that and last thing I said, just about the fight itself, man. Look, I'm not just a guy who watches and loves boxing. I'm a guy who gets inside of the ring and gets punched. I say this every single time. That was not a really competitive fight. Jake ran around a lot. Put Jake Paul, he wrestled a lot. He wrestled a lot. He didn't seem pristinely conditioned for it. He made a shit ton of money. You guys, Jake Paul got in the ring with a two time heavyweight champion of the world at 66245. That's fucking.

[B]

Suicide.

[A]

Yeah. And, and like the, the, the, the reality is if you have spent 90 seconds in a ring of any sort, you just respect when people do it. Phil put me in with this big guy. I told, we talked, I told this story. Ras Von Rosvond was in there. Me up like a. Like a 6 foot 7 guy was fighting Luis Ortiz that Saturday. Roswan's in there fucking me up. I'm doing my best. I went six rounds with him. I get out. Yeah, we had a sparring session six rounds and he was fucking me up, man. I get out the ring and the rest of the pros are like, the gym is clapping because they respect the fact that you are willing to get in the ring. Cause so many people talk shit about everything that goes on and they just wouldn't do.

[B]

It. Yeah, I mean, $92 million is what I'm told. Jake was what I believe I read. So that would motivate me a lot. What did you think about the.

[A]

Weigh in when he put his dick towards Anthony.

[B]

Joshua? When he walked up like a.

[A]

Gorilla? I mean, it is what it is. It's like, like if I was, if I was bashful about boxing and racism being used to promote fights, I couldn't be a fan of this world. Like, it's.

[B]

Floyd. I don't know as much about it to say all Floyd used to come out.

[A]

In. In a sombrero because he would fight on Cinco de Mayo. Floyd used to come out in the Sobrero. It was like if, like, there's a fighter right now, Teofimo Lopez, fantastic fighter, openly racist like says. But boxing, wrestling, all of that. Boxing is essentially a race war. I went to a. I went to a house one time. My friend Angelica, her brothers, everybody was cool. And Bernard Hopkins was fighting Oscar De La Hoya. Another. So Bernard Hopkins is fighting Oscar De La Hoya. I'm in a home full of Mexicans, loved him. So great. And I'm in there and B Hop is getting off on Oscar De La Hoya. Ended up knocking him out. I'm in there, I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm looking around, I'm like, why nobody cheering for B Hop, man? What's going on? And then they go, man, you're in the Mexican house. Boxing fans, they want to see the Mexican guy win. And I, I took offense to.

[B]

That. You took offense to.

[A]

It? Yeah. I started chilling for B Hopping.

[B]

More. I mean, I think black people root for the black.

[A]

Person. For sure, we all root for the people. But all I'm saying is like, that's a part of it. So I'm not saying I, I excuse Jake Paul for any of the stuff that Jake Paul did, but, or Jake Paul does or whatever. But I am desensitized to race being used in.

[B]

Boxing. I'm not as familiar, which I'm sure there are a lot of people listening. So when I saw it, I was like, oh my God, fuck you.

[A]

Nigga. Yeah, he was like, he was like, fuck.

[B]

You. Like usually I guess I didn't think about it the way, like I'm always gonna root for the black person, but I guess I thought when I see country versus country, I know like that there's that whole thing and I've seen that in fights when I've watched bigger fights. But you know, you're putting me up on, on game when it comes to boxing. But man, I'm not saying that people have. Joshua, I hope you don't.

[A]

Retire. Nah, he gonna stay around and fight.

[B]

Now. I hope you do something that's, that's forward.

[A]

Facing. I don't think he gonna retire now. I think he made the 92 million. Maybe he will. He wants to, he wants to fight. I want to see if you guys would pay for the Joshua.

[B]

Fight.

[A]

Who? Because he might, he.

[B]

Might. Who did he replace? Fury, who was supposed.

[A]

To. Javanta, Tank.

[B]

Davis. Thank you to that, man. Because if he hadn't, if he had, I mean, I wouldn't know Anthony.

[A]

See, it's the whole thing. Anthony, Joshua, man. Anthony Joshua's had a career. Oh.

[B]

I'm. I don't care none about that weak chin or anything. I care about what I.

[A]

Saw. I'm telling you, this is the thing. And a lot of the sisters are on this. Anthony got to lean into this. I want to see Anthony on the. What's the show where they. On the Jennifer Hudson show. I want to see him dance down the.

[B]

Thing. I wonder what he's. I wonder what is. I tried to look to see if, you know, I could see what he's.

[A]

Into. Talking about women.

[B]

Wise. Yeah, yeah.

[A]

Yeah. No, I don't think, I don't think it is. He know he a Nigerian.

[B]

Brother. What does that.

[A]

Mean? I'm just saying that, I'm just giving you more information. I'm not saying that that means.

[B]

Anything. I knew he was Nigerian. I told you, I went.

[A]

Down. I know that he's a Nigerian brother. He's a Nigerian.

[B]

Brother. Very proud, very.

[A]

Proud. He had a tough upbringing and he ended up winning an Olympic medal after not having boxed for too long. He had an amateur background. A whole nine went through the whole.

[B]

Thing.

[A]

2012. He. Yeah, he had. See, but researched Anthony Joshua. He also had, like a. He's the biggest fighter. He was the biggest fighter in England for a long.

[B]

Time. I'm not paying attention. I'm not paying attention to what's happening across the pond. You want me to look.

[A]

Stupid?

[B]

Why? I'll be like.

[A]

This. You can't. You can't control yourself in front of some.

[B]

Fine. He might be the finest man we had on this.

[A]

Podcast. Okay, give me a list of. To you. Give me a list to you of the finest guys that we've had on the.

[B]

Podcast. I don't know. I don't know. Can I. Can I bring it. Can I bring it to the next show? I'll close the. I got to think about.

[A]

It. Does anybody step. Does anyone stick out that we've had on this podcast that you were like, oh, he look good? You said one guy look good. Who. After he left the pot. I don't know if we left it in or if we took it. Took it out the pot. You said one guy looked.

[B]

Good. Just say.

[A]

It. T.K.

[B]

Kirkland. Oh, I do think he's.

[A]

Attractive.

[B]

Yeah. Extremely problematic, but he's a. I think he's attractive. I think I said that on the podcast.

[A]

So. I said, you said that on the.

[B]

Podcast.

[A]

Yeah. You think of anybody else that. That you think has looked good or been super fine. Fine.

[B]

Ass. I'm so bad with names. Who's. Who's the guy in him. What's his.

[A]

Name? Who's the.

[B]

Guy? Oh, Tyreek.

[A]

Withers. Okay. You got a little color.

[B]

Thing.

[A]

Spectrum. You went. You got a little bit of color thing? Well, TK Not TK TK Dark as.

[B]

Shit. No, I said a.

[A]

Spectrum. A whole color spectrum. You like the entire. All right, look, we want to get Anthony on the pod. Matchroom Boxing. Eddie.

[B]

Hearn. No, no, no. In.

[A]

Person. In person. Well, he gotta be in America.

[B]

Yeah. I mean, we could have got a zoom. I want to be.

[A]

Clear. So Joshua. So Anthony Joshua. This is the type of controversy that we.

[B]

Like. Audience. I.

[A]

Know. This is the type of controversy we like. Anthony Joshua called Eddie Chambers a disgrace to the superior black.

[B]

Race. Who did he call.

[A]

That? Eddie Chambers. Fast Eddie.

[B]

Chambers. Another boxer to the.

[A]

Superior. To the superior black race. So the way you read that is he's saying black people are superior. I got that. And Eddie Chambers is disgrace to that. I like Fast City, you know, and he also. One more thing about Joshua for all the black sisters out there. Black sisters. As if they're all white.

[B]

Sisters. Yeah. I'm just saying there were a lot.

[A]

Of. Joshua gave a speech at a Black Lives Matter protest in Watford where he said, show them where it hurts. Abstain from spending your money in their shops and economies and invest in black owned business. Anthony Joshua said that. This is your perfect guy. This is your perfect guy. Anthony Joshua. I'm with it. I'm glad you. I'm glad you guys are a part of it. Guys. You guys have seen the light. Wonder if there's.

[B]

More. I'm happy to be here. I'm happy to be here. Who.

[A]

Else? Timothy Chalamet. You wanted.

[B]

To. I just thought of you. It's almost as if you spoke this into existence. I'm sure it was worth. I mean, Timothy Chalamet. I haven't seen Marty supreme yet. Have.

[A]

You? I.

[B]

Have. How'd you like.

[A]

It? It's.

[B]

Good. Okay. He's out here. He's promoting his album in all kinds of ways. Right. Either before or after you did your game. I think I saw him on Drew Ski's Drew Ski thing, and so he's doing his thing there. Marty Supreme. And I thought about the game and I thought, okay, like, this could add to the number count. But then he dropped a.

[A]

Video. Yeah, it's.

[B]

Tough. And it had a lot of people talking. So you've always had this whole thing about Timothee Chalamet where you say.

[A]

He'S right there, right on the.

[B]

Edge. He's right on the edge. Has he crossed.

[A]

Over? Not.

[B]

Yet. What does he need to do to cross over? Because there are a lot of people who are talking about this. They're like, people are calling him a wigger. They're saying that he became that in, like, who becomes that at the age of.

[A]

29? But he didn't.

[B]

Though. But he didn't exactly. Like, he's all like. There's performances of him dancing and rapping as a kid and, like doing all this stuff, whether I don't know what it was on, but there's video. So he's like always like, when I saw the video, I'm like, oh, okay. This is what he was doing before. It's like people met him as an actor, then some of this stuff came out. I think they did a good job of pushing the acting side first. But, like, this is kind of who he's always been as well. What's gonna take him over the edge for.

[A]

You? Some type of controversy. So let me tell you, first of all, we said that his. That his number was 2718. His number is.

[B]

5000. I knew you were gonna change the.

[A]

Number. It goes.

[B]

Up.

[A]

Why? Cause of the video. Video.

[B]

Man.

[A]

Okay. The video wasn't just rap because if. If he would have done some kind of all. By the way, just let y' all know, all of these calls are spam likely. I don't know what the is going on, but. But if he'd have done something that was like, you know, you do stuff, you rap, you come out. Let's say that he would have gone on Sway. Shout out to Sway. Oh, I want to say something about Sway real quick. Sway and King Tech did an event last week or a couple of weeks ago called for the.

[B]

Culture. Where was.

[A]

It? It was at the Regent Theater downtown. Okay, say something about this event. I did not stay the whole time because it's on Sunday night. I like to be here early for the podcast. The. The event was about hip hop culture. If you could take what was inside the Regent Theater at that event and export it to the world, you'd save the whole world. Every single color of people was represented. Every single age of people was represented. It was in an event that celebrated hip hop, which is this grand cultural experiment where people get so into the thing that they do. Breaking, rapping, scratching, all of that. The people that they highlighted and honored is everybody in that room. It was so much love. And I was. When I was in there, for the time that I was in there, I just thought about the fact that when you leave that room, you leave all of that love, and that's kind of what any type of real cultural experience really is. I thought that was great. I thought seeing people up there, they showed them in their prime and everything that they were doing. I think they're out of their primes now. And then they got to come up there and do their thing for a little bit. It was beautiful. It's very.

[C]

Beautiful.

[A]

Beautiful. But if he would have gone on, like, Sway and, like, rapped, it's like, okay, cool. But this did a full drill video. Drilled out, bandana on the head, maybe had the average on the whole nine. All right, that's very.

[B]

Close. I thought when I saw the video, I thought this might have pushed him over for.

[A]

You. What's gonna push him over, I feel like, is something. It's a little bit more dangerous because right now, even with everything that he doing, he's still in the territory of the white boy that we let come with us. We'd be going to do something. There'd be a white boy, hey, can I ride with y' All. Ah, he can ride. He's harmless. You know, maybe he's in the back. That masterpiece. Ghetto dope. Come on. And you like, hey, calm down, Calm down. But he still could ride. But there's a time when that white boy does something that he can't ride no more. And that thing is normally when he pisses somebody off. You're not going to do it just by what Timothy Chalamet is doing right now, which is getting to a corny level. Corniness is not enough. And it's getting corny. It's just getting corny. It's getting corny. It's getting. The Drew Ski thing was.

[B]

Great. The video was as corny to me as it was when he went on stage. I believe he was in Brazil and started hitting the soldiers.

[A]

Boy. See, I like.

[B]

That. See, I thought that was kind.

[A]

Of corny, but I like that because that's of his generation. That's something that meant something to him. But see, here's the deal.

[B]

There. Do it.

[A]

There. But here's the deal, though. The fact that you have something that you think is corny, and I have something that I think is corny, and they're not the same thing. The video is corny. That type of shit is corny. Like, and it's not the same thing. Then that, to me, shows that they're just like people that's picking out of the corny thing. Now. The movie is still good. He's still a fantastic actor. And let him go out there and.

[B]

Experiment. Yeah, it's a. He's not bothering me. But in light of the game, I thought of.

[A]

You. 5,000. 5,000 for Timmy. Now it went up. Oh.

[B]

Okay. People thought you were a little too low on the.

[A]

Numbers. Oh, which numbers? Which.

[B]

One? I put it out on TikTok and they really thought they were like, Mark Wahlberg says it in his.

[A]

Dreams. Yeah, that's.

[B]

True. Like, they gave him well over six. Six.

[A]

Figures. Six figures. I can see.

[B]

That. Yeah, yeah.

[A]

Yeah. Donnie just put something in the. In the. In the. In the document, Joshua has been linked to Billa Hadid, Cara Delevingne and Maya Jama, who. I don't know who that is. And the host of Love Island Games. You know who that is. Love Island Games.

[B]

What? There's a theme.

[A]

There. He was also linked to Rita.

[B]

Ora. Damn, she's married.

[A]

So. Yeah, so Bella Hadik, Cara Delevingne and Maya Jamaica. It. So you know it. It is what it.

[B]

Is. Damn. There's a theme there. I was hoping Maya was at.

[A]

Least black is Maya not.

[B]

Black. She's not. Oh, she's.

[A]

Biracial. She's.

[B]

Biracial. So that's. Yeah, her father is.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. So that don't mean that don't matter. He can come home.

[B]

Too. He can come home.

[A]

Too. Yeah, that can come home, too. But, man, who would you like to see him matched up.

[B]

With? Isn't it.

[A]

Obvious? Okay, it is obvious. I like this. I like this. I like this. We got anything else? I don't think we got anything else. I don't think we have anything else. I think Donnie's putting something in the document right now. What are you typing out? Or is that Jade? Donnie's typing something. Jade's typing something. What's going on.

[B]

Guys? I think we're.

[A]

Done. Are y' all adding stuff to the show? We can add stuff to the show if y' all want. Donnie, what are you about.

[C]

To. I think we're good. No, that's Jay. She's just making.

[B]

Notes. She said, you know what's happening? We're turning that corner. We're at hour.

[A]

Two. The torn. The Van Lathan corner.

[B]

That. We're turning the Van Lathen corner. We're at hour two, which several people remind me that when we hop into hour two, Joshua comes.

[A]

Out. Josh.

[B]

Joshua. Joshua comes.

[A]

Out. Y' all don't know what Joshua has cost me, man. A lot in life. Oh, look. Okay, so look, it's Christmas. Y' all getting this? We're not doing an episode for Christmas. I do want to say that. I want to talk about, not reflect on a year, but from our Christmas family to you guys, we really appreciate the insane growth that higher learning has been on. Okay? We're on a good trajectory, and we're ramping up even more for next year. So everybody listens to a podcast. We appreciate you, but we also want you guys to know that you're failing. We want you to do a better job. Send the podcast to somebody. Clip a piece of the podcast. It can't just be Keith Edwards that is clipping us. All right, Keith, the user of black people Edwards. It can't just be. That's Trumpian. That's what Trump.

[B]

Do. That's your.

[A]

Boy. Trump is the one, Keith. Trump is the one that takes an artist's song and then uses it in an ice.

[B]

Video. I'm happy that you're getting it.

[A]

Now, Keith, you gotta come. You gotta come talk to us. Keith, you gotta talk to us. You gotta talk to me. Gotta talk to Rachel. Well, actually, really, he doesn't even need to talk to.

[B]

Me. Oh, he would love to. He's gonna be saying, ain't that right, Van? Ain't that right.

[A]

Van? You gonna be. Ain't that right? In me. I hate.

[B]

Her. He's right.

[A]

There. I hate her. Ain't that right? I hate her.

[B]

Ain't. Well, that's kind of what he's doing when he posts the clips. Black woman says something. He says, ain't that right? Here's a Van Lathan.

[A]

Clip. But y'. All. But y' all can't make me. I gotta say what I gotta say on the.

[B]

Podcast. Oh, you can, but you, if anything, we know you don't talk in.

[A]

Clips. Yeah, I talk in 30 minutes.

[B]

So. Yeah, so get your.

[A]

Boy. So when Keith comes, pause. When Keith comes, double pause. It will on the show. Will want me to stay out of it. I could just referee between you.

[B]

And Keith, because I think you're going to have to. He's going to say, like, he used your clip for this purpose. I think you're going to. You have to. It's not just me versus Keith. It's, you know, it's you and Keith versus.

[A]

Me. Keith, we appreciate you. Keith, we appreciate you spreading the.

[B]

Word about how I.

[A]

Learned. The rest of y' all need to do better. My life has been so good since I've been off the Reddit, but shout out to the Reddit. All right, Shout out.

[B]

To. This has nothing to do with the Reddit, but yes.

[A]

Yes. Shout out to everybody that's consuming the show. Shout out to everybody that's on threads. And shout out to everyone. Before we go, I want you guys to have a great time with your families. Christmas, Hanukkah, Kwanzaa, all of that. Shout out to everyone who is trying their best to be somebody's light and joy in the holiday. In the holiday season, there's somebody who wants to see you. There's somebody who wants to hang around with you, drink eggnog with you and all of that stuff. Just be the reason that somebody smiles because there's a lot of shit going.

[B]

On. A.

[A]

Lot. All right, take your thing. Caps off, but do not stop learning. I'm Van Lathan.

[B]

Jr. I'm Rachel and Lindsay. Bye, guys. Discover Mercer Lab's Museum of Art and Technology in New York City, where creativity meets innovation. This holiday season, immerse yourself in a world of interactive exhibits, digital masterpieces, and unforgettable experiences. Whether you. Whether you're with family, friends, or exploring solo, Mercer Labs invites you to see art and technology in a whole new light. Get your tickets [e-mail] and redefine your museum.