Kevin and Katt Squash the Beef, Stephen A.’s Wish, and ABC vs. Trump’s FCC

Summary

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Higher Learning with Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay

Episode Summary:

"Kevin and Katt Squash the Beef, Stephen A.’s Wish, and ABC vs. Trump’s FCC"
Release Date: May 12, 2026
Hosts: Van Lathan Jr. & Rachel Lindsay (The Ringer)

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Episode Overview

Van and Rachel dive into a jam-packed episode discussing the recent "Roast of Kevin Hart" (with a focus on what's fair game in comedy and the moment Kevin and Katt Williams finally squashed their beef), the latest judicial blow to voting rights in Virginia, ABC’s high-stakes First Amendment battle with Trump’s FCC, and viral controversies (including Stephen A. Smith’s call for Black voters to “try” the GOP and James Charles’s GoFundMe meltdown). The episode is full of sharp cultural critique, behind-the-scenes anecdotes, and honest debates about race, comedy, politics, and accountability.

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Key Topics & Timestamps

1. The Roast of Kevin Hart: Comedy, Boundaries, and the Kevin/Katt Truce

[00:14 – 15:37]

• Roast Recap: Rachel and Van break down standout performances and the most controversial moments from the star-studded Netflix event, focusing on edginess versus offensiveness in stand-up.
• Offensive Jokes: Discussion tackles Pete Davidson's joke about Charlie Kirk ("somebody actually got killed and their wife is seemingly upset about it" – Van, [04:35]) and Tony Hinchcliffe’s George Floyd joke ("George Floyd is looking up at us all, laughing so hard that he can’t breathe" – Tony, recited by Van, [03:16]).
• Double Standards: Rachel questions who gets to make “certain” jokes and why comedians like Hinchcliffe are granted a pass, given their perceived politics ([05:08–06:31]).
• Comedy Culture: Van notes, “For the protection of comedy...I don't think comedians want restraints. And I think if they feel like they restrain one, then it's like, well, then where does that line stop?” ([08:45]).
• Katt Williams & Kevin Hart: Long-held beef between the two comic legends comes to a surprising close live onstage; Van outlines its roots ("straight up jealousy" about Hart’s mainstream success – [12:13]), praises both as legends, and notes how “the number one way to squash a beef...Stay successful.” (Van, [15:58]).

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2. Virginia’s Redistricting Ruling: Process, Power, and Democratic Disarray

[17:59 – 34:15]

• Ballot Measure Overturned: The Virginia Supreme Court nullifies a recent voter-approved redistricting measure, tilting control toward Republicans amidst broader southern gerrymandering post-Voting Rights Act ([17:59–20:36]).
• Process vs. Will of the Voters: Rachel slams the move as "a knock on democracy...you're taking away the will of the people," ([18:36]), critiquing the GOP for weaponizing procedures only after they lose.
• Van’s Nuanced Take: He admits, "I'm not so sure this is the wrong decision insofar as the interpretation of the rules..." ([23:12]), but rails against Democrats for being outflanked and stresses that "the only way now is for people to show up in droves this fall" ([27:04]) to combat the success of Republican power grabs.
• Dem Voters' Dilemma: Van acknowledges radical critiques of the party but insists on unity for the sake of fighting Trump: "I cannot, cannot abide some of the stuff that's happening here in terms of the black people in Southern states..." ([27:07]).
• Supreme Court Stakes: The discussion closes with both hosts emphasizing the importance of court reform given the partisan judiciary ("The only way to attempt to balance that out is to pack the court," – Rachel, [36:27]).

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3. ABC vs. Trump’s FCC: Free Speech, Media Manipulation, and Shifting Power

[36:35 – 45:47]

• ABC’s Legal Fight: The network accuses Trump’s FCC of unconstitutional overreach for its scrutiny of opinion shows such as "The View" ([36:35–37:34]).
• Power Dynamics: Van quips, “Mickey Mouse is dragging his balls across the Trump administration," but theorizes this defiance is possible only because "Trump’s unpopular...it’s low leverage to actually have this fight" ([37:34–38:38]).
• Scope and Precedent: Rachel highlights why the challenge is significant: “They're basically saying if you allow them to lose their exemption...you're holding us to a certain standard that you're not holding to these radio shows which are also under this,” ([39:42]), and urges policy change for modern media.
• Media Courage: Van credits Jimmy Kimmel’s outspokenness as inspiration for ABC’s bolder stance, suggesting growing public/media willingness to stand up now "because [Trump's] fucking up" ([43:41–45:05]).

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4. Stephen A. Smith’s “Vote Republican” Wish: Political Strategy or Out-of-Touch?

[48:37 – 62:57]

• Controversial Advice: Stephen A.’s viral quote: “I wish for one election that every black person would vote Republican. ...the only community in America devoid of representation" ([48:45]).
• Van’s Response: With humor and exasperation, Van draws an analogy: “Stephen A. Smith loves the ladies...no matter how bad it's going, you know what he's not gonna do? Try some dick, okay? ...Because that's not who Stephen A. Smith is, okay?“ ([50:07]), arguing that some things are simply against core interest or identity.
• Rachel’s Critique: She dismantles the reasoning as “not a well thought-out point,” noting it wrongly blames Black people and ignores historical shifts in party loyalty ([53:17-56:39]).
• Dangerous Rhetoric: Both highlight how statements like Stephen A.’s become "weaponized" by the GOP, and that voting for candidates "who need you gone...to achieve their political ends" is self-destructive ([49:53], [51:56], [59:52]).

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5. James Charles’s Spirit Airlines GoFundMe Rant: Influencer Out-of-Touchness

[65:04 – 86:31]

• What Happened: James Charles publicly mocks a laid-off Spirit Airlines employee for asking for GoFundMe help (“just go get another job ...you're a lazy piece of shit and you’re entitled" – James Charles via Bernard, [65:29]).
• Van & Rachel’s Take:
  • Rachel: “That was James Charles. He goes on, I don’t even know how many minute rant degrading this person ...just because they simply ask you to...fund their gofundme link” ([68:49]).
  • She rates his subsequent apology “a big fat zero, which is also what James Charles is.”
• Wider Implications:
  • Rachel: “It’s a reflection of the society we live in...Once you get to a certain place in society, you devalue those underneath you” ([71:57]).
  • Van opens a philosophical tangent: Should celebrities be “de-personed” (treated as brands) or seen as humans, and what are the consequences on accountability? ([73:07–84:05])
• Celebrity Accountability: A nuanced disagreement about whether public figures should be “forgiven” after apologies or held perpetually accountable for harmful public speech ([79:40–85:49]).

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6. Lighter Segments and Hot Takes

[86:31 – End]

Nerd Ranks, Reddit, and Fandom

• Banter about being a "nerd," the hierarchy of identities, and Van’s misadventures with Reddit communities ([86:31–93:48]).
• Rachel: “Nerd is first, then Black, then man, then straight?”
• Van: “I expect, if anyone else, I expect nerds to understand me even more than black people.“ ([90:08])

Caitlin Clark & Morgan Wallen

[96:04–105:37]

• Caitlin Clark appears at Morgan Wallen concert post-tough WNBA debut.
• Van: “Caitlin Clark is in no way, shape or form a racist.” The moment is mostly funny, but also “steroids for this Caitlin Clark socio-political debate.” ([97:09])
• Both agree media scrutiny and the “face of the WNBA” debate is far overblown after one game.

White AKA Member & Divine 9

[105:42–112:23]

• Uproar over a pro-Trump white woman joining Alpha Kappa Alpha at Stillman College.
• Rachel, as a Delta, is concerned: “Delta Sigma Theta would never. We would never. How did this pass the process?” ([107:43])
• Discussion of whether non-Black people “can authentically represent" organizations founded as a response to exclusion/oppression.

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Notable Quotes

• On comedy and boundaries: “I think for the protection of comedy...I don't think comedians want restraints. And I think if they feel like they restrain one, then it's like, well, then where does that line stop?” – Rachel, [08:45]
• On political realities: “The best way [in Hollywood] is just to keep shining and keep being successful. Eventually y’all gonna be like, what the fuck are we doing? We can get more money together.” – Van, [16:01]
• On voting and powerlessness: “It just is such a knock on democracy...now you’re taking away the will of the people. What does that say about you?” – Rachel, [18:36]
• On celebrity accountability: “We as a group of people have decided what we think is appropriate. And if you go out and you do that type of shit, we not fucking with you.” – Van, [78:23]
• On Stephen A. Smith's voting proposal: “You want me to vote for disenfranchising black people? ...Vote for women losing their bodily autonomy. Like, vote for what?” – Van, [51:56]
• On social media entitlement: “Once you get to a certain place in society, you devalue those underneath you.” – Rachel, [71:57]

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Takeaway Themes

• Comedy vs. Responsibility: The boundaries of comedic freedom, especially about race and trauma, remain hotly debated.
• Political Power: Voting rights are still vulnerable to process-based suppression, and the only recourse may be massive turnout.
• Media & Speech: Networks are confronting political overreach, but motives may be less about principle than shifting power.
• Black Voters & Party Loyalty: Calls for Black voters to “experiment” with their vote neglect profound and lived historical realities.
• Celebrity Influence: Apologies and public accountability are more complex than ever, and influencers can’t escape scrutiny for showing who they really are.
• Culture Wars: Even traditionally Black institutions now wrestle with the fraught implications of inclusion and political alignment.

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For Listeners New & Old

This episode showcases the freewheeling, insight-laden chemistry of Van and Rachel, blending laughs with sharp, sometimes raw, analysis. Whether it’s roasting comedians, breaking down gerrymandering, or getting personal about nerd culture and Black Greek life, the show remains a must-listen for anyone interested in the pulse of Black cultural and political thought.

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Transcript

[Van Lathan Jr.]

Yo, yo, yo. Thought Warriors. What is up? Higher Learning is on.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

It's Ivan Leathy Jr. And it's me, Rachel and Lindsay.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

Rachel, did you see the Roast of Kevin Hart?

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

I got through about an hour of it. I got up to. No, no, no, no. I just ran out of time. I got to Pete. No, no, no. The JB guy. Is that his name?

[Van Lathan Jr.]

JB Bickerstaff?

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

Yes. I got to him.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

That's not who it is. J.B. bickerstaff is the coach.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

Okay, I'm not even sure if it's jb. J something.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

Who? Jay? What are you talking about?

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

He was, like, the bigger guy that they kept.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

Who?

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

Oh, I thought JV Smooth. No, it wasn't J. I would know that one, Donnie. I would know JB Smooth.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

Get on his ass.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

He's like. He's a comedian. He's an older friend. He's a white guy. He was a bigger guy. Glasses. J. I don't even know if it was a B. It was definitely a J. Okay, who roasted? Did you watch it?

[Van Lathan Jr.]

I did.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

Okay, well, the guy. You didn't know.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

It was a blur to me. I was switching back and forth because the NBA was on too. It was fun, though, by the way, just to let you guys know, with what I saw last night, I gotta be able. I gotta be free to tell my Charlie Kirk joke. They was going fucking nuts last night, but.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

Okay, okay, okay, they were. And to be expected from a' Shane Gillis. But, like, I mean, I'm not gonna say I was uncomfortable. It was just interesting. I could tell the audience didn't know if they could laugh or not. But to you, as a new, newer comedian, are you gonna add that to your label now?

[Van Lathan Jr.]

No, but I understand what you're saying.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

As a newer comedian, you haven't built the reputation of what type of comedy you do yet.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

That's fair.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

So with. You know, who made the. Was it Pete Davidson who made the joke about the neck? Yeah, yeah, Pete Davidson and the things that Shane Gillis was saying. It's like. Well, we know that's kind of their comedy. Should you do this joke, it will cement what type of comedian you are.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

Hmm. That's true. That joke was one. Did you see the George Floyd joke?

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

Who did it?

[Van Lathan Jr.]

Tony Hinchcliffe.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

Oh, I didn't get to him. Oh, fuck. I didn't get to him. I didn't get to him yet.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

Look, this is the deal with the Rose last night.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

It was a lot. I was.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

Should we play that joke for Rachel in real time? Just to see how she responds.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

Wait, play it for me. I'll tell you who the guy is that you can't remember. Cause I just looked for a list of the people in the names. He was the one who kept making the black jokes about Cheryl Underwood. Cheryl's so black this. Cheryl's so black this. And it was like, all right, we get it. That was that guy. I said his name is enlisted on this.

[Donnie]

Yeah, Play Okerson.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

What was it, Donnie?

[Van Lathan Jr.]

Big J. Oh, Big J, Big J, Big jb. I'm like, what the fuck, Donnie? Did I send the Tony Hinchcliffe George Floyd joke to the chat?

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

You didn't send it to the chat.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

Hold on. I'm sorry.

[Donnie]

I sent the Shane Gillis joke to the chat.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

On a scale of 1 to 10 for Tony Hinchcliffe, how. I don't want to say the word inappropriate, but how Tony Hinchcliffe was he 10 being the most.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

It's 10. I want to play it for you live. You've done good, though, Kevin. The black community is so proud of you. Right now, George Floyd is looking up at us all, laughing so hard that he can't breathe. God bless you, Kevin. God bless the this room, and God

[Bernard]

bless the United States of America.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

Thank you. Thoughts?

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

I mean, to be fair, the Charlie Kirk joke to me was just, like, a little insensitive as well.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

Oh, okay.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

So I just. It's like. Cause, okay, Pete Davidson. There were several jokes about Pete Davidson from the point I watched, so I probably got an hour in. There were several jokes about Pete Davidson's dad who died in 9 11.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

Right.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

But Pete Davidson jokes about it. Pete Davidson made a joke about it when he took the stage. So I feel like that's fair game. He's there. He does it as well.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

Right.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

But, like, both of those deaths were so public and both. And I'm not comparing the two in that sense, but just, like, I just. You know, I don't know. That might be where it's just a little like.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

So this is the deal. This is the thing. If everybody's getting it, I'm cool. The Charlie Kirk joke, when you make that joke, understand that somebody actually got killed and their wife is seemingly upset about it, theoretically. And that's gonna be something that's going to upset people. Right. If that is fair game, then the George Floyd joke is fair game.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

Okay, let me pull it back.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

Okay.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

I don't know what Pete Davidson. How Pete Davidson feels about Charlie Kirk. I know how Tony Hinchcliffe feels about George Floyd and black lives matter. And just black people in this society. So is it a joke? Well, and I think that may be where it's like, even when I heard the Charlie Kirk, I was like, ooh, maybe too soon. But with Tony, there were so many jokes about him being a Nazi or a white supremacist because of the things he said, because of what he's done and who he aligns himself with. So to hear him make a George Floyd joke, it's like, is that in jest or. Because you don't really sound like you really cared about George Floyd, how that impacted the black community, the fallout after what black people wanted when it came to seeking justice, when it came to George Floyd. So it's like George Floyd joke from you. Meh.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

But do you see how that's your analysis right there is kind of like. How can I put it? I'm not trying to. I'm not trying to be charitable. Tony Hinchcliffe. But I'm saying.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

No, no, no, no. I get the. Like, I. I get both jokes. I'm saying both of them. I was like.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

But what you said was that.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

But I'm leaning a little bit more of. In a. With. With. With Tony Hinchcliffe. Is it a joke or was it one for you to get off on the fat. On the George Floyd of it all? Because you don't align with what. What happened after.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

So this is the way I'm looking at it. Pete Davidson says that it's. It's fuck Charlie Kirk. It is. You make the joke. It's fuck Charlie Kirk. You probably wouldn't make that joke unless you thought Charlie Kirk was fair game because Charlie Kirk was an asshole when he was alive. You probably wouldn't make that joke unless you thought that. Right? So I'm gonna give Pete Davidson credit for the fact that he made that joke about that guy getting killed. Right. Despite everything and how everyone feels about it and how terrible that shooting was and people saw it. Tony Hinchcliffe is interesting to me. It's interesting because he's up there with them and they are participating in the joke. So everybody up there that's joking for joking at the expense of Tony Hitchcliffe saying he's a Nazi and a white supremacist. Well, they're hanging out with him so obviously on stage.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

Or you're saying he's a part of

[Van Lathan Jr.]

their culture and community, so obviously they must not care.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

Well, I don't know if you could say that, like, just because Kevin hall might call Regina hall or somebody to come participate in the rose and Tony Hinchcliffe's there as well. Doesn't mean that they're, like, on one Accord.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

What do you mean? Doesn't mean that they're on one Accord? I'm not saying that they're on one Accord. I'm saying that, like.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

Or that they don't care. I mean, if you were getting roasted and you had Andrew Schultz over there, who I don't really align with, I would still participate in your roast. Cause I'm there for you. It doesn't mean that I fuck with him.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

No, but what I'm saying is, obviously, if I have him on my roast, I don't care.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

You're right. Right, right. You don't care.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

What I'm talking about is the. I'm not speaking for everybody on the roast. I'm saying that everyone That's a part of that, right. All of the comedians that are taking shots at one another, they're taking shots at one another based upon their personal, like, relationships, based upon public perception of them. They're joking about what people think about these comedians. There's a whole contingent of comedians that I think the comedy world is looking at for kind of what undergirds those comedians. Political beliefs. But they've accepted that, like, that's a part of it. They really don't care. So what I mean by that is,

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

like, I think for the protection of comedy, they. Yes, I understand what you're saying. Like, I don't think comedians want restraints. And I think if they feel like they restrain one, then it's like, well, then where does that line stop?

[Van Lathan Jr.]

True. But I also think that they are probably less offended.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

I think so, too.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

I think some of them are really offended. Like, the comedians that I was able to meet and talk to, I think they're really offended. I'm not speaking for all of comedy or anything like that after one standup set. But what I'm saying is that. What I'm saying is when I see that when you look for. When you look at Rogan, Chappelle. Chappelle goes on Rogan, they chum it up. They do stuff together like, they are pals, they're friends. Despite the fact that Rogan has this reputation of being this really vile, basically purveyor of misinformation and lies and a mouthpiece for the Trump administration, like Chappelle, who seems diametrically opposed to all of that stuff, that's his boy. And so. And you see a lot of people on there. There's a whole fabric of them. And so, like, that's why, when I looked at the Tony Hitchcliffe thing last night, them saying all of those jokes about him to me was them saying, we know he's a Nazi, but he's still one of.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

He's a comedian.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

He's a comedian. Like, he's a comedian. And we kind of accept that. That's why I felt like there was. I like a roast. Because I like a roast. People are trying to. They're trying to see exactly how far they can go, and everybody's, like, upping the ante. Shane Gillis. Oh, Shane was directly went at Chelsea Handler for being a Zionist.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

Yeah. No, he did.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

Very funny. Made a dead kids joke on Netflix. Like, the guardrails were really. They were off.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

I think that's to be expected when you have somebody like Shane Gillis hosting. I mean, he even kind of said it.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

Yeah.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

I mean, you know, I mean, he was like, white guy hosting for a black man. I forgot what he said. Oh, black excellence. He's there to celebrate black excellence tonight.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

Yeah.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

I mean, you knew what you were gonna get. As soon as I saw him, I was like, wow, they're really going there. I mean, I think. And I wouldn't be surprised if Kevin Hart said it.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

Yeah.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

I wouldn't. I wouldn't even be surprised if some of it was purposeful right in the face. I wouldn't be surprised if some of it was purposeful on his end. To just, like, be like, if you're gonna do the roast of me.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

She got cte.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

If you're gonna do the roast.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

Look, look, you knocked her. You look. Stand her up straight after you smacked her, man. Look, look, she crooked. She can't stay.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

I don't think she can.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

You punched her dad in that shit.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

I don't think she can.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

Look at her put. Let her lean on. Hoot nanny. There you go. Hoot Nanny.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

I think, no, she doesn't need. She doesn't need all that. Or he doesn't need all that. But I think I wouldn't be surprised if he said, if you're gonna do a roast of me, like, nothing is off limits. I wouldn't even be surprised if he was purposeful in who he put on stage just to push the limits of comedy.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

Yeah.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

Or boundaries.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

Last thing I'll say about the roles before we get into the big deal of the day. Katt Williams, Kevin Hart.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

I know. I haven't gotten there to that part yet. I mean, I saw it on Social, but Katt did a set, right?

[Van Lathan Jr.]

Yeah. Kat. I think even Kevin was surprised.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

So Kevin. You think Kevin didn't know? Because I haven't gotten there yet.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

He would have had to have known. But if he didn't know, he sold the moment really well. Cause Katt came out there after. Obviously, if you guys don't know the background, years and years and years of those two guys going at each other.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

But do we really know the root of it?

[Van Lathan Jr.]

Yeah.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

Oh, okay. Maybe. I guess I don't.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

Yeah. The root of it is straight up jealousy.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

Katt jealous of Kevin or Kevin jealous of Katt.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

I think that Cat and a lot of comedians, this is in no way a shot to Katt Williams. Love Katt Williams. But I think Katt and a lot of comedians resented Kevin Hart for a long time for what they thought was Kevin Hart's meteoric ascendant rise that only took him like, 30 fucking years. Kevin Hart. When you first came out here, Kevin Hart was, like, grinding at chocolate sundaes and doing all of that stuff. His career took a noticeable and direct dip. Like, direct. Like, Kevin comes out Soul Plane. What year is Soul playing? Look that up.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

Oh, yeah.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

So Soul Plane comes out. Kevin does the 2004. 2004.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

Oh, wow.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

So 2004. I remember I was ordering Soul Plane. I was at Best Buy, like, in Baton Rouge. Right. I didn't even know who Kevin Hart

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

was when I saw him when the movie came out. Yeah.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

Then I go back and I see him. He's in a couple of movies that Dame had made. Dame doesn't get credit, but Dame be putting n on and giving them their shots and doing all kinds of shit. Damn. Whatever. Um, and then Kev was in a lot of movies, but then, like, he got cold a little bit. It kind of didn't take off for a while. And then he just started working his fucking ass off. Working on YouTube, working in clubs, working. Just working his ass off. And he worked and worked and worked. But there was still this perception that he was either an industry plant or a Hollywood creation or which anybody that was paying attention can see that that's not the case. And I think when he blew up and got to, like, a mainstream lunchbox type of celebrity, I think there were a lot of comedians that resented it. And I think Katt was one of them, which never made any sense because Cat is a one of a kind legend. Like a true throwback comedy legend, like a true dangerous comic that you don't know what's gonna happen, so. But it's good to see them squash that after all of those years, for sure. I also Think some of Kat's. Some of his criticisms were probably valid insofar as like what Hollywood does to make comedians and how they choose a chosen one and all of that stuff. But it was mostly just this nigga shining and I think I'm better than him. But they're over it now.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

Oh yeah, I can't wait to watch the rest of it. I wanna see it. Was he good on stage?

[Van Lathan Jr.]

He's Katt fuckin Williams. There might be.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

Who was the best to you?

[Van Lathan Jr.]

Katt. Katt was great. Shane was great. Pete was great.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

I thought Chelsea was good.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

Chelsea was great. Um, I thought the celebrities, the non comedians got some shit off. I thought Brady got some shit off. Brady shit was crazy.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

I've never seen him that loose. Yeah, I've never seen that loose. I thought Naim was good. Yeah, I've seen him.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

Naeem is hysterical.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

I've seen his, him at a like gone to a Kevin Hart show and seen him open up and I remember I was like on the floor and I was like, who? That was my first is years ago. And I was like, this guy is hilarious. So when he, when I saw him on stage I was like, I'm so glad that everybody else is going to get to see him because he's really funny.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

All the plastic cowboys get busy. No, I, I know, yeah, they get

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

busy, but I haven't gotten to the rest of them on there yet. But I was like really happy to see him do his thing.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

But yeah, so it's good to see them together. I would love to see a Kevin Hart Cat Williams movie.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

Maybe. Maybe it's coming.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

Yeah, Two little niggas write it. Two short niggas. Like two short niggas. Like that's perfect. And that's what we need. Last thing about that. Do you know the number one way to squash a beef with somebody in Hollywood?

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

How?

[Van Lathan Jr.]

Stay successful.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

Wow. Hmm.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

So let me tell you just from my understanding of this, okay, let's say you, you got a beef with another celebrity, you have to stay successful. If you stay successful and on the right trajectory, you guys will eventually squash that beef.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

Do both people have to stay successful?

[Van Lathan Jr.]

That's what I'm saying. Whoever you have the beef with, somebody has a beef with you, you have a beef with them. If you guys both stay successful, which Katt and Kevin have. Right. Katt has had some ups and downs, but he's flourishing.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

No. Yeah, yeah.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

So he's still relevant, he's still successful. That means that person isn't going anywhere. And because that Person isn't going anywhere. The best thing to do after a while is just to squash it. But let them fall off. Yeah, let them fall off to where you don't have to squash the beef with them. Let them fall off. The person with more power will kick the person with less power's ass in perpetuity. They will fuck over them forever. And there are some examples of that I could mention, but I'm not going to mention them. The best way is just to keep shining and keep being successful. Eventually y' all gonna be like, what the fuck are we doing? We can get more money together. But, man, when one person is obsolete and the other person is on top, you become a footnote in their story.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

Yeah, that's true.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

And they lean on you as long as they fucking can.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

That's true. That's true.

[Bernard]

All right.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

Big deal of the day, Donnie.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

Somewhere out there is a Chevy truck, and the person who drives it, well, that's a Chevy person.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

You probably know one. Your buddy, your sister. Ones who always show up. They're the first to rise, the last to leave. They always have that little extra something. And maybe you've got it, too. Chevrolet together. Let's drive. Visit chevy.com trucks to explore the lineup.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

All right.

[Donnie]

Yeah. Virginia. The Supreme Court last week overturned the state's redistricting ballot measure that had passed last month. The decision leaves the Republicans with the opportunity to net more than 10 seats from redrawn lines with several Southern states in the midst of redrawing their own districts following that recent U.S. supreme Court decision that gutted the Voting Rights Act.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

Was this decision by the Virginia Supreme Court fair?

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

No.

[Bernard]

Interesting.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

I mean, I don't think that they should be able to use a. First off, Virginia tried to do it. Right? Right. We see these red states or Southern states not even putting up the vote to the public and allowing them to vote on redistricting maps. They're just doing unilaterally where then you have blue states or purple states who are actually trying to go through the process of allowing the people to vote on what it is that they want. They're using a procedural argument here to try to say which is up for debate. Right. They're trying to say, hey, procedurally, you didn't do things the way that the Virginia Constitution says that you should. But despite that, right. The people still voted in April. Virginia citizens still voted on the referendum, and they voted that they wanted this to happen. So now, okay, you might say, and again, Republicans are saying one thing, Democrats are saying something else. But at the end of the day, what you cannot deny is that this was placed up for the people to vote yes or no. They said they wanted to change the maps, and now you're taking away the will of the people. What does that say about you? You cannot separate the politics from this decision. What the Virginia Supreme Court did, and now there really is no recourse. I mean, they can file an appeal, like try to get an emergency decision from the Supreme Court. That's probably not going to happen. And unless they can find some kind of federal question within this, the Supreme Court won't hear it. And even if they do find some type of federal issue and the Supreme Court or a federal question, the Supreme Court does hear it. What do you think the Supreme Court's going to do? So it just is such a knock on democracy in the sense that things were done the correct way. And the word that they're fighting over is what is considered an election. And you're gonna take away the people voted on it regardless. And the people are telling you what they want and you're saying, no, we're not gonna do that. So now you're stuck with, instead of it being possibly 10 to 1 in favor of Democrats, they're going to lose four, it's going to be six to five.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

All right, so what racials is talking about is the way things work in Virginia, according to the Virginia Constitution, is for a constitutional amendment in the state of Virginia, you have to have two different legislative sessions. All right? You have to have the proposed amendment, then you have to have an election, and then you have to have another session to. For the amendment to come back. Right. So that gives the voters an opportunity to vote on the people that are doing the amendment, have the election, then vote again basically on the amendment or the people that are there. So the voters have two chances to make their case directly heard. Right. So amendment, election, then another legislative session. Do I have that right?

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

I think so.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

Right. Okay. So like now what happened is when they brought this the first time they brought it on October 31st of last year, the election had already basically begun.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

The early voting had begun. Well, and that's the issue is when does the election start?

[Van Lathan Jr.]

Right.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

So early voting had begun.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

Well, 1.4 million people had cast ballots.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

Yes, yes, but this is the. Yes, this is the argument.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

So by that rationale, those people didn't get a chance. The Virginia's. The Virginia system is supposed to give the people, the. The people a chance to directly affect not just the lawmaking, but the lawmakers. Who made the law. So by their rationale, what they are saying is that those people didn't get a chance because this was brought after they already had voted. Now, this is in the state constitution.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

They didn't get a chance to.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

What they didn't get a chance to vote on, to make their voices heard about this particular amendment.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

No, they didn't get to have their voices heard because this amendment, the amendment, they couldn't put the amendment on the ballot until the two votes had happened by the legislature. So the proposed amendment, then the election, which is what's at issue, and then the legislature voting on it again. So what happened is, is that they're trying to say, this is the argument that came from the Republican side, that they voted in the 1.4 people had voted on lawmakers who potentially might have opposed.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

That's what I meant to say.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

Okay.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

So, like, I don't mean directly this. That. What I meant to say was they're voting on the lawmakers who are supposed to either champion or oppose this. That's what they want to do. They want to make sure that they can do that. And so the decision here was going to be based around what you think Election Day is.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

Yes.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

If Election Day is the day that people go out to vote, then the Democrats were in a good position. If election day is. Or if an election constitutes the day that voting actually starts, then the Republicans were in a better position here, or however you wanna look at that. I'm not so sure that this is the wrong decision. And what I mean is, if that is the system in Virginia, it's the wrong decision for me, certainly. But I'm not so certain that it's the wrong decision insofar as the interpretation of the rules that are already on the books now, you could argue either way. Election Day being the start of an election or Election Day being the start of the voting, or the actual voting being the start of the electoral process. But like, really, that is. That's kind of a fair interpretation, depending on what you think is the most important thing. Like, to me, when I look at the actual decision, it's hard to be outraged at the conclusion that they came from, claim came to, other than the fact that I wanted them to come to a different decision.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

So this is where I would. You're not. I don't disagree with you. What I would say is it's the timing of it all, because what I believe is the citizens voted on this in April. I truly believe that if. And the vote was like 52, 48 or something like that.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

And the Democrats expended a gigantic, like

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

a hundred million dollars, so 5,248 in favor of redrawing the maps, which would have been a favor for the Democrats if it had gone the other way. This would never be brought in front of the court. And my thing is, is that there was. It was proposed in October, as you said. There was the election, and then there was the vote on it in early of 2026, I think, like February.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

Yeah.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

Why not file the suit then? It's the timing of it all. They waited. They still allowed it to be placed to the voters because they thought that they would win. And when they didn't win, then they filed the lawsuit. So the reason I say it's politically motivated, you didn't have a problem with it. You should have had a problem with it back when it was done, and you didn't. You wanted to see if the. If it would go in your favor. And that's why I think that you have to talk about they're using the court system to their advantage to get the outcome that they want. They could have filed this to the Virginia Supreme Court when the second vote was cast, that this was going to be put in front of the voters. And they waited till after the voting results in April to make this decision.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

The funny thing about that, though, is that when I was first reading on this, before the vote even took place, before the vote even took place, in everything I read on it, they were like, the Supreme Court would probably come back. It's a good chance the Supreme Court will come back and nullify it.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

Did they say because of the procedure?

[Van Lathan Jr.]

Yeah. So there's nothing that I've ever read on this that took place in Virginia where the Supreme Court nullifying it wasn't a distinct possibility. And I guess this kind of gets me to, like, my main point here. This was obviously a crushing blow for, to me, democracy and fair elections and all of that stuff and what the Trump administration is trying to do. But it also, to me, shows that the Democrats are still being out organized, that the Democrats are still being outflanked by the right. Now, look, I'm gonna be honest with you and a lot of my lefty friends about to be mad over the next eight months or whatever, it's gonna be really hard for me to criticize Democrats, and I'm gonna tell you why.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

You mean to not criticize them?

[Van Lathan Jr.]

No, to criticize them.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

Okay.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

Like, for as much of my politics that have become increasingly radicalized, I believe in providing guardrails against Donald Trump. I believe in stopping the Trump administration. The Trump administration is on a war path to gain power in America, and they have to be stopped. There has to be some check to be able to stop them. And unfortunately, the only fighters that we are able to choose, you know, street fighter, you got Ryu, Kin Akuma and all of these people. We only got one. We got one. What the fuck? I'm talking. We only got one. And that is kind of the opposition that could be controlled opposition, which is the Democratic Party. Right. We have to. That's the check legislatively against what Donald Trump is trying to do. And the only way to have that check be actually useful now is incredible turnout in November. That's the only way. The only way now you can't gerrymander your way out of it because the gerrymandering fight might be lost. The only way now is for people to show up in droves this fall and overcome what is going to be a successful Republican effort to gerrymander all of this stuff. That's the only way. So the conversations of how to the left we have to move for me from a tactical perspective, might have to be tabled in a way until after the midterms because I'm sorry and I apologize to all of my friends that are moving as left as me to the far left. I cannot, cannot abide some of the stuff that's happening here in terms of the black people in Southern states that are just being torn apart by this MAGA Republican administration. I can't. So I might have to be party cheerleader, blue cheerleader number one in the midriff, the whole thing. I might have to go pure on cuck shill, because the only way to stop some of this stuff and to regain some semblance of balance. I'll talk about this a little bit later on. Stephen A. Smith thing is to really get people out in November, at least that's where I'm at right now. To vote and sort of overrun the.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

Oh, sorry, no, that's it. I think the big thing is, is that it's. You're right about when you talk about black people just in general and how they're doing this to, to, to take away voting power and the voice of black people. But at the same time, they're also doing it to disenfranchise black people. And that's why you have to put on the midriff, as you said, and be a cheerleader, because they want you to feel gutted. They want you to feel like Your voice doesn't matter. And there's no point, no matter what you do. And there really is if you all come out and come together. But I just want to say back to the Virginia thing, I think the argument, nobody could argue against it if they had done the timing correctly. I think to me, and I don't know if that could, this is a federal question or not, but the moment you gave it to the people and allowed the people to vote, I feel like that should take away any kind of procedural error that they're trying to claim you allowed the people to vote on should. Never got that far. Cuz you had the power to use the court system to nullify any of this prior to a vote ever going to the people. That's the problem to me with what they did. Because now the argument for, like, what I'm saying is people can say, well, you let people vote on it, you know what the people want now, and then you go against that because it doesn't align with your political motives.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

I have a problem with that. My problem with that is that that argument can and has been used to legitimize Trump's agenda.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

Which argument?

[Van Lathan Jr.]

That people voted for it. Like, whenever somebody, whenever the Trump administration is questioned about ICE or the birthright citizenship, they say, hey, we said we were gonna do all of this and people voted for it.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

People voted for him.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

Like, no, wait a second, they voted for him. But what they say is, this is the will of the people. They say, we want all the swing states, we want all the swing states saying we were gonna deport 10 million people. We went all the swing states saying that we were going to challenge birthright citizenship. We run all the swing states doing the stuff that we were going to do. This is what people wanted. And it's what people wanted because we said we were going to do this and they voted for it. And then when they try to do those things, we say, hey, but rules are rules. And there is, there are laws and rules that are in place to make sure that you guys don't do some of this stuff. And these things are enshrined in law. So it doesn't matter what people voted for. If there are rules and procedures that are on the books so that you cannot do this, fuck what they voted for. What you're doing is illegal. What you're doing is unconstitutional. What you're doing breaks every sort of protocol that we've ever had. And those are the rules, are the things that kind of, in my opinion, keep. Of course elections matter. And the will of the people matter. But people voted for Jim Crow, right?

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

Some would say they might have voted on one issue, but whatever, though.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

So what I'm saying is, it's hard for me in this situation to be like. What I think is the most important thing is the interpretation of what is an election. Is an election something that starts whenever people start voting? Or is an election something that starts. Is it Election Day? Is that when an election begins? I think that interpretation is the most important thing here. And maybe you will have gotten a Supreme Court that will have interpreted. To read the decision here is really interesting, because it's clear if you read the decision here that the Supreme Court felt a little. They were pissed off. They don't like gerrymandering, and they also don't like the fact that they were voting on maps that that Supreme Court had actually made, that they were kind of throwing it back in their face. So there was a clear, this is what we fucking said, niggas. That they did. But I personally, I understand and I hear and I get the will of the people arguing, but it's just been so corrupted by the Trump administration over the last year and a half, two years, that I'm kind of torn between the rules and the vote. The rules have to matter, no matter what the vote says.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

I mean, if I was gonna say something towards that, I would just say that, you know, just because you voted for the Trump administration, people voted for Trump for various reasons. Now, I agree with you. A vote for Trump means you're agreeing with all the things that he said. But I think people would say, well, I was voting based on this. I'm not saying that. That's right. I was voting specifically on this. I wasn't voting for an idea or something that may happen. Whereas this was a specific thing that they voted yes or no for as a referendum. Like, this is specifically what I am voting for them to do. And it's on one thing, yes or no. But, you know, I get both sides of it.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

So real quick, this is very important, before we get off this, I. Moving forward, for any presidential Senate candidate that is running as a blue centrist Democrat, which I guess, you know, I'm fucking with them again. Hey, guys, we gotta. I need you to be. I need you to be alive for me to kick your ass. That's basically what I'm saying to the Democrats. I need y' all to be alive for me to kick your ass. Right? I need you to live so that I can kick you in the nuts. Okay? And Right now you might be dead. You might be dead. I'm still voting to the left of all of you. I see. Look, it's in me now. I'm still doing it, but I don't know how to do it. But what I'm saying is whether or not you're willing to pack the courts is going to be.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

I have to do this.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

Whether or not you'll be. But see, here's the deal. Back to the goddamn question about the Senate Democrats. They're hesitant, I know they're hesitant to say that they want to pack the courts. First of all, there's a lot of hurdles to pack the court. That's why you have to ask the Senate candidates as well too, because you're gonna need the votes to be able to do that. Right. But they're hesitant to say this. Cuz they always go, if that starts, where is it going to finish? And what I'm saying is they already

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

finishing us like we getting finished. I'm with you on that. I'm with you on that.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

Like they finishing it like we getting finished.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

We have a partisan Supreme Court and the only way to attempt to balance that out is to pack the court. That's it.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

Enough. All right.

[Donnie]

Let's talk about ABC and the fcc. ABC is accusing Trump's FCC of violating its First Amendment rights as FCC chair Brendan Carr ramps up scrutiny of the outlet. Carr has questioned whether shows such as the View are, quote, bonafide news programs which are granted certain First Amendment protections by Congress. And ABC said in his filing that car's scrutiny of his programming is, quote, unprecedented beyond the commission's authority and counterproductive to the commission's stated goal of encouraging free speech and open political discussion?

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

Question, Were you surprised to see ABC kind of go after the Trump administration when before we've seen them pay out $15 million in a defamation suit, which some people say that they probably could have won if they had pursued it, but they just said, here's 15 million. Were you surprised that the ABC is doing something, I guess making a bigger move than any other network is doing?

[Van Lathan Jr.]

Yes, at first. But then I thought about it. Uh oh, at first I was like, look at Mickey Mouse. Got some big ass balls. Mickey Mouse is dragging his balls across the Trump administration. Then I thought about it. Trump's unpopular.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

You really think that that's the reason?

[Van Lathan Jr.]

It's part of it. Trump's unpopular. Trump's unpopular. Now Trump, Trump's unpopular enough to where ABC feels like it's low leverage to actually have this fight. In 24 or back in the day, they were afraid of the wrath of President Trump. I feel like a lot of people were. So they went along with a lot of things, but now Trump's wounded. So it's not just ABC that you see fighting back. The people in his own party that you see fighting back, people in his own intellectual cohort that you see fighting back. Trump is actually being attacked from all different sides. The Virginia win was very important for him. So at first I was like, look at ABC doing the thing and it's still very important that they did it. But then I was thinking, I mean, not that this necessarily matters for whether or not they're fighting back or not, but I was thinking this is also a sign of the strength of the President.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

I don't know if it shows because to me, I mean, the FCC chair, Brendan Carr is still trying to come after ABC regardless. So this is only going to infuriate him even more because what they're trying to do is, I mean, basically they're standing up for themselves in the sense that the FCC is trying to, is making them have to, I guess again, submit their exemptions and possibly putting their licenses, however many ABC stations they own putting their licenses on the line and is calling for it earlier than it's up because I think it's 20, 28 and they're pushing back against it and saying basically what you're not, what you're doing, you shouldn't, you don't have the authority to do. You're doing something that's unprecedented. And to me that will. Maybe it's not popular with the public, but it still infuriates the President, the fcc, who still wield power over these networks. So I don't necessarily know if I buy the argument that it's because it's unpopular, because it's not unpopular. I mean, because it's because he's unpopular. Sorry.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

Well, I mean, I guess my only evidence is that when his movement was more robust, they caved. And a lot of people caved.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

Well, maybe because they thought it wouldn't keep going well and now they've done something else and now they're challenging the View, which is their most watched program. And they're basically saying the View, cuz like they're taking on a bigger argument. And the person who filed this with the FCC is known for arguing cases in front of the Supreme Court. This is becoming a First Amendment challenge, which is why I think it's such a big deal. And I'm actually surprised that they're taking this on because what they're saying is for 20 something years, we've already argued the case with these talk shows like the View. And it's never been challenged until you got mad because you don't like how the View talks about you and your administration. And they're basically saying if you allow them to lose their exemption, then if, because this is within the arc the filing, if we interview one governor candidate from California, there's like 60 different names out there. So all of them have to, which is an impossible thing to do, then you're holding us to a certain standard that you're not holding to these radio shows which are also under this, these conservative radio shows who aren't allowing every candidate to come on as well. And then they are even broadening it out saying this is an archaic law because when this was used before or policy, because this was used before, you didn't have all the different media platforms that you have now. There's so many different ways to consume your political discourse or commentary or whatever it may be. And you're not holding them to the same standard that you're holding us, which now is it fair that only these two mediums are held to the standard, but none of the other ones are, which have even more influence on voters and people and how they view this administration, the government or whatever. So to me, it's a big deal that they're making the argument in general to possibly change this policy to either cover everybody or that it shouldn't exist at all because there's so many different media platforms out there.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

I think everything you said is absolutely correct. I think there is a political calculation that exists here too. And part of that calculation is that, yo, you not gonna tell us what to do, but you especially not gonna tell us to do at 36% approval rating, you just not you like you not gonna tell us what to do when nobody is even fucking with you like that. Right? Everything that you're doing is failing. And you still, after all of that, are trying to act like you are the big mafia boss now. You're not that anymore when you were that we gave it up. And not just us, but everybody, all of this, this whole argument was started or not started. It was highlighted during the whole Crockett, Talarico, Stephen Colbert thing. The difference is the Cuck Broadcasting System, which is cbs. They are with Trump. They're with them. Broadcasting system, cbs, they're with them. They are part of the Trump intelligentsia over there, culturally, MAGA over there, as their ratings continue to fucking plummet. ABC was at least willing to lie quietly, and now they're not. I think there is a portion of it where they are being pushed too far. I think there's somebody else, and I know that I know the guy. And so I don't want people to feel like I'm throwing alley oops for my friend. I think Jimmy's position in this is very important because as much as the Trump administration has been able to cull other people that have presented a dissenting voice, they have not been able to beat Jimmy. They haven't been able to beat Jimmy, they haven't been able to intimidate Jimmy, they haven't been able to scare Jimmy. They haven't been able to run Jimmy off tv. Jimmy is standing right there going, fucking come on. Bring everything that you have. Yeah, like, bring more. What else you got? And it's not. It's dangerous to do that. It's dangerous to do it. Trump continues to make comedians hosts like Kimmel, the Avatar for everything that's wrong with America, which incentivize crazies to do all kinds of dumb ass shit. But the bravery of Kimmel's show and the entire fucking staff, everyone, this is a family affair over there, is kind of showing that you don't have to roll over and take it. I think ABC is definitely inspired by that. But at the same time, it is a lower leverage thing to do now than it was when Donald Trump had everybody running scared. That is just not the case anymore. They over there with such bad policy and such unpopular stuff, they are poking holes in their own bully status. Donald Trump, with every, like, going to war in Iran, like what happened in Minneapolis, he's shredding his own bully pulpit because he's asking everybody to be as grotesque as he is. And even they might, even though they might have voted for it, they're going, hold on for a second, man. Yeah, so I do think. So I do think that what you're saying is true, but I also think that a lot of people are standing up to him now in a way that they haven't before because he's fucking up.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

I wonder if his approval ratings change, will they pull back?

[Van Lathan Jr.]

Oh, they gotta. They gotta stay.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

They have to stay in this.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

They gotta stay now.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

And honestly, it's something that probably should have been challenged before, but it should have been.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

And it's also not working for Cook Broadcasting. It's not. It's now. It's not working for him. Like, it's really not working for him. Everything Is getting fucked up. If. If it's like, oh, sorry, no go for now.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

Well, I was gonna say it's like everything. I mean, you're putting people who are not qualified to run something that they've never done before. You can say that with the Department of Defense. You could say that with Attorney General's office. You can say that with who's running cbs. Like they don't have the. Know how. You're just putting people in who are loyal to you. And so what happens with that? The things are crumbling.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

Yeah. Well, what's the nigga name with the nice. Jay. What's his name with the nice Chin.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

Chin man who's on the morning show?

[Van Lathan Jr.]

Nah. Well, yeah, the guy that got into. With Tana. Yeah.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

Tony. I don't. I'm not.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

How you say it. What's his last name? Chin man.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

Okay. I never thought of him in that way. Tony Docopil.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

Docopel. Tony Ducopel. Hey, man, Chin man. Not cooking over there with his good looking ass.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

Not Chin man.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

He got a good chin. You haven't noticed that before?

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

I do now. I never thought of it that way. It wasn't the first thing that I thought. Not bring up the chin.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

Hold on. Look at the chin. The chins are important for white boys. No, Donnie, am I wrong about this?

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

A jawline's important for everybody. Everybody wants a strong jawline.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

Oh, am I saying. Am I saying jaw when I mean chin?

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

I don't know, you tell us.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

I think maybe you're right. Cause it's.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

He has a strong jawline and a pronounced chin. So which one is it?

[Van Lathan Jr.]

Let me look at him. I think it's the chin man. I think he got. Cause he was a college baseball player. So there's a lot of discipline that he's had to. I know a lot about him. I see his wife is fine. What's the wife? Katie Tur. Katie Turr is the wife. She fine. They are a fine group of whites. She to the left of him.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

Oh, is she?

[Van Lathan Jr.]

Yeah, she to the left of him. They look good. They like, look. Yeah, yeah. Come on, man. That's a fucking chin dog. What the fuck y' all got going on? Why do I always get. Donnie, look at him. Does he have a good looking chin?

[Donnie]

Yeah, I'll give it to him.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

Thank you.

[Donnie]

Promise?

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

Like, like, yeah, like Chin man is failing. That shit is not going well. And everybody at CBS is mad. You know, the leaks that are coming out of cbs, they complain about everything. They're like, the water is Lukewarm in the building. She can't do anything right. We don't. We get bad tacos, like everybody.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

You guys aren't paying attention to all that.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

Like every. Every story that's coming out of CBS News is something that's fucked up, man. We used to have the best concessions in the building when Barry Weiss got here. Now we eat stale popcorn, Pop Tarts and shit like that Chin, man. Failing. So I think all of this stuff is, you know, it's kind of leading people to say maybe Trump's coattails are not what they used to be. Yeah, look. MAGA coded. CBS anchors ratings continue to spiral. How Tony Ducopel became the face of Zionist fanatic Bari. That's a Zateo shout out to the people at Zateo. They never fuck around. They just go right for it. Zateo doesn't fucking care. All right. I think Stephen A. Yeah, Donnie. Yeah, Go for it.

[Donnie]

He was on Cam Newton's Funky Friday podcast last week and he spoke about his wish for black people for one election.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

I wish for one election that every black person would vote Republican.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

What? What?

[Van Lathan Jr.]

What? How can he say that? I said it's simple. Since 1964, the black people, black folks, we have been giving our vote to the Democratic Party at an exorbitant rate. Therefore, they know they got our vote and they don't have to cater to us as much as we need them to. The Republicans know they'll never get our vote, so they don't give a damn about us. And as a result, we're the only community in America devoid of representation, which is why we're considered disenfranchised. I'm tired of that. What I want is to put ourselves as a community in a position where both parties have to work to get our vote.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

You put your glasses on. So go ahead.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

What?

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

You put your glasses on for this one.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

Oh, no, I just had to. You know, I gotta put the glasses on. You know, I thought about this because I don't want black people to be disenfranchised. I don't. I want them to have.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

Of course.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

You know. Really?

[Bernard]

I don't know.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

How can I say it? What's the adjective? I want them to have desperate political representation. I want people to be desperate for black rights. But then I thought about something about Stephen A. Smith. Stephen A. Smith loves the ladies.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

He does.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

He does love the ladies, right? It doesn't matter how bad it's going with the ladies. You know what Stephen A. Smith is not gonna do?

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

What?

[Van Lathan Jr.]

Try Some dick, okay? Do you know why?

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

Why?

[Van Lathan Jr.]

Because that's not who Stephen A. Smith is, okay? Because as bad as it gets with the ladies, Stephen A. Smith is not gonna go out and go, maybe a little dick will help. Something that's completely counter to my identity and what I want and need, it's not going to do that. I understand people saying, hey, black people should experiment politically. And I think that what that means is that black people should experiment politically to the left of the Democrats. They should experiment politically with things that are humanistic and are things that are based in justice and working people's rights and health care and things like that. But how could you experiment with the Republicans? You want me to vote for disenfranchising black people? You want me to vote for making DEI a cartoon character monster? Like, making blackness like an American deficiency? What are they offering? Vote for them. Vote for what? Vote for women losing their bodily autonomy. Like, vote for what? When you say stuff like that, what are you talking about? Like, what am I voting for? By the way, The Republicans are not failing to cater to black people because they don't think they can get the black vote. The Republicans are failing to cater to black people because their base is obviously and viciously racist. For this to come out on the heels of black people led by Republicans being gerrymandered out of their voting power all over the south, their ancestral home is incredible. I'm not angry. I'm just saying this is odd and stupid and wrong. You can say that. It just is. Like, you can say that, hey, the Democrats aren't doing enough. And I will agree, the Democrats need to be pushed. I will agree. I would say experiment to the left of them. Experiment with some political theory that might press on some nerves in your brain a little bit. But if you experiment to the right of them, then you vote for the people who need you gone in order to achieve their political ends. How is that helping you?

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

Yeah, so I guess Stephen A. Smith made. Did this. Gave this speech to a college. I'm not sure when he did it, but then he reiterates the statement that he made within that speech, which is the one that we just heard there, that he wished that they could explore that everyone should vote Republican wants. So to your point, it's like, okay, let's just say he made that speech 10 years ago or whatever, before the Trump administration, to then reiterate it now with all the things that you just said, I guess the word flabbergasted comes to mind. But it's just.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

I Love that word.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

It's just not a well thought out point. He's like, it's simple. No, the simple thing is stop blaming black people for and making them the reason as to why they're in this situation and start demanding more from whoever's in the administration or from our politicians. That's the simple thing. It's not about, hey, go vote for this different party because that will make the Democrats say, hey, we gotta do more. It's just simple that our politicians just need to be doing more for us, period. That's where the demand should come. And I hate this statement for so many reasons. And I honestly don't know, and I would love to. I wonder how effective Stephen A. Smith's opinion really is within the black community. How much weight it holds, how much influence it holds. I don't know that it does. But what I do know are that statements like this and thinking like this and this type of rhetoric is used as a weapon for the Republicans and for the MAGA movement. And that's what he feels like when he makes statements like this. And just also, it just assumes so many things. One, it assumes that black people are a monolith and they all vote the same way and they all vote one way for a particular reason. Not true. He's assuming that people, black voters, are uninformed, that they don't research their own policies and aren't making educated decisions when they go to the polls to vote. You're assuming that we just vote that way because we've always voted that way. The other thing is that it ignores why black people originally started voting for Democrats because of what was done and because during the 60s, the strategy was to make, I guess, or to get rid of or not have the civil rights progress that we do have. So he is ignoring why the original alignment was even there. The other thing is, is that he assumes evidence that's not even. Let me say this again. He assumes facts that are not in evidence. He's assuming that or that would guarantee that if we started voting for Republicans, that the Republicans would in turn give us the favor of doing things that benefit our needs. And he assumes that if you vote for him, that means that a vote will be in the benefit of you. And then he's also assuming that if we vote for Republicans, that the heart of Republicans would say, you know what? We're getting the black vote. Let me go ahead and start doing things that don't disenfranchise them, that are in favor of the minority need, that benefit lower socio and economic status, people and so on. And then the other thing is that this, to me, a statement like this shows his privilege. Because if, let's just say black people are like, you know what, what Stephen A. Smith is saying makes a lot of sense. I'm gonna start voting Republican. They would be voting against their direct interest for all the things that you're saying with what the Republican Party and the Trump administration are doing now. And it would not affect him personally. So he's sitting at a place of privilege saying, hey, vote for this, and if it goes wrong, he won't be impacted with his hundred million dollar contract with ESPN in various places. But the people who actually need the change, who need democracy to work, who need policies that benefit them so they can get out of the current place that they're in, are gonna be the ones that suffer. It's just so ludicrous to me.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

Yeah, so, you know, very well said. And here's the deal, here's the thing. You know Roland Martin, you know what Roland Martin said? Roland Martin said that black people are amongst the most sophisticated voters. I think that Roland Martin is right because he said when the Republicans, the early days of civil rights, not civil rights so much, but after slavery, radical Republicans and all of that stuff. Seven mystic years into that, when the Republicans were the party that were coalesced around black rights, black people were Republicans then for a whole host of reasons, the Republicans started having a problem with the ascension of black people politically and economically and socially in America. And they fought civil rights. And then black people were sophisticated enough to go, we're not beholden to this party anymore because this party is not beholden to us. Where is the party where we can access our rights? That became the Democratic Party. And then they started to vote Democrat writ large. Right? They voted for their citizenship, they voted for their voting rights. They voted for all of those things because those things were being offered by one party. One party was the one that was saying, hey, if you vote for us, we'll deliver these things. And early on there they deliver them. Now, I think we are at an inflection point where not just black people, but working Americans need to take a hard look critically at what they believe political success to be like. What is success? What is the goal? How do you frame your life as an American? What's the framing around that? What do you think makes a successful American? What do you think makes a successful society? And are the politicians that you are electing, are they interested in those goals? Are you electing politicians that are Interested in you having environmental justice, interested in you having economic opportunity? Are you investing in politicians that are interested in things that you care about outside of America? The dignity of the global south, be it the plight of the Palestinians, be it American aggression all over the world? Right. Are you, like, investing into politicians that actually care about these things? Are you investing into people that tell you that they care and then when the rubber meets the road, they do something differently? And where are the people that you could actually build community with, political community that would actually care about those issues? I think that's fair to ask every black person right now. Right? Ask them, like, especially as you kind of look at some of these numbers and maybe they seem a little bit unchanging. But I can tell you one thing. During the time that we've started to ask these questions, the Republicans have only gotten more radical. It's a new group of radical Republicans, and they're radical in a completely different way. They're saying, you guys deserve nothing and you are nothing. You fly the plane and the plane crashes. That is the fucking. Am I going crazy? Am I tripping?

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

No, he is.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

No, it's like that. They legitimately say, if Letitia flies the plane, the plane crashes. How the fuck I pose a vote for that? Yeah, what you want me to what? Like, like if you have an iota of consciousness or racial self esteem, how the fuck can I vote for the party that uses Felicia as a slur? What is he talking about?

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

It makes sense.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

I'm so sick of this shit. I'm trying not to get all animated and stuff like that, but I look at this. When people say that there are Manchurian candidates or people that are, like, getting paid and activated within different political groups to make people make the wrong decisions. I always say that that's bullshit. Always. I say that that's bullshit. And it is bullshit. That is not true of Stephen A. Smith. I do not believe that at all. But God damn, if I was in a court of law and I was presenting evidence that that were the case, I would start with this. I would be like Perry Mason. I would be like, you know, perry Mason, be out there. I'd be out there. Be like, your Honor, look at this dumb shit. You would have to be an agent to say something like this. Especially in the times that we're in right now.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

He literally says in the speech, the speech that he gave, he was like, the Republican Party doesn't give a damn. So why would a vote for them further make them suddenly give a damn? Or if your argument Is, which is fair. We talked about it here that Democrats believe that they are entitled to the black vote. They assume they're gonna get it and so they say things, but they don't necessarily do things that benefit it. Why then would you think that if I go vote for Republicans, then they're gonna start saying that they'll do things for me? But they're. But they'll actually do it. It'll actually benefit them. Or wouldn't it just make the Democrats start saying we're really gonna do it? And then they don't. Like it's this game of, oh, I'm just gonna play with my vote and then get the party to say what I want. How do you know they're actually gonna act? It's just, it's so.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

I don't disagree with him saying that maybe wholesale black people need to think of a different political strategy to enhance what they are getting from politics.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

But don't put the blame on black people. Blame the politicians who aren't doing anything or who assume certain things or who are telling you things just to get your vote. We as voters should be demanding more from our politicians and requiring them. Otherwise they don't get to be in office. They don't get a second term or a third, fourth, whatever it may be. That to me is the bottom line of it. Not saying, you know what'll get them. Go vote for the other side. Literally. There's no evidence to show that that works.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

Yeah, vote for your own demise. I'm not the one that tried to change black history. They tried. We beat it. This is a dead horse. We beat it. We beat it. I just. That was funny to me when I saw that. That was funny. I'm sorry, I'm not trying to stay on that. But like, do I agree that yes, there needs to be a different political strategy? That's why we all need to get in rooms and talk about what this stuff is. But like, like that.

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[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

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[Van Lathan Jr.]

They outwardly trying to fuck us up. What's next? Goddammit.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

Yeah, what is next?

[Donnie]

James Charles Influencer this nigga, he's facing some backlash after he went off over a message he received from a lady who allegedly got laid off by Spirit Airlines. So a little bit of context. 17,000 people lost their jobs last week when Spirit shut down all operations. And one of these former employees sent James a message with a GoFundMe link asking for a donation. And this is what James posted after he got that link.

[Bernard]

I just got a DM on here from a girl that said good morning James. I know you'll probably never see this, but if you could just take one minute to read, it would really mean a lot to me. I'm really struggling right now because Spirit Airlines just filed for bankruptcy and I have lost my job. Here's a GoFundMe link. Any donations help? I'm sure they do Sweetheart, I'm sure they do. You know what else would help you? Getting another job. Yeah, try that. Because in the time that it took you to copy and paste the same fuck ass message to myself, who you don't follow, by the way, and probably 100 other influencers and celebrities, you could have applied for 100 other jobs, but you didn't because you're a lazy piece of shit and you're entitled. And you think that influencers and celebrities should fund your life for you. Why? Why would I ever help you? You're not a fan. You don't even follow me. You've never supported me. This is your first time dming and you think that I'm going to send you money because you lost your job. Oh my God. Welcome to the real world, sweetheart. People lose their jobs every fucking day. And you're white, pretty and able bodied. You're in a much better position than a lot of other people out here who are trying clearly much harder to make a better life for themselves. Why would I fucking help you? Aside from that 17,000 people lost their jobs as Peter Airlines. Why do you think you need to go fund me? I can at least like 1% respect the mentality of closed mouths. Don't get fed. Doesn't hurt to try. But honestly, it does hurt to try because now you pissed me off. Okay, I'm not the one. Go find fucking Mr. Reese. This is literally his entire shtick. I'm sure the next YouTube video is literally going to be like, I rehired all 17,000 of airlines employees and it's going to be the real life Hunger Games. The last one of them, the Spirit Airlines plane, gets to be the CEO of the new company and gets a house at a car. $10 million that everybody else dies. Like, go find that video to compete. And baby, I'm not helping you. I'm not fucking helping you. All you did was lost your job. Okay? Welcome to the real world. I can at least understand if you were like, James, I'm a longtime fan. Here's a a trillion. Do you have the apology and my support for you. I love you. I'm suffering with a really. This video was fucking stupid. It was rude, it was obnoxious, it was privileged, and most importantly, it was completely fucking unnecessary. When I saw that dm, I absolutely had the choice to ignore it and say absolutely nothing at all and move on with my day. But instead I couldn't even tell you why. Her message just triggered me and I decided instead to make a video about it. And I Bashed her and it was obnoxious. And I shamed her for asking for help in a situation where she was clearly really struggling, and this could have been her absolute last resort. I have no idea what was going on in her life, and I should have never assumed that she was just copying and pasting this DM as an easy way out. I don't know. I just don't know. My intention behind making this video in the first place was I get a lot of messages like this every single day. And for me personally, it definitely sucks to receive messages from people that don't follow you and don't support you.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

Okay. He goes on to say, thank you, Donnie. He goes on to say, please, I tried to find your message and I couldn't find it. I couldn't find it. So please DM me. I would love to help you if I can. I do hope Mr. Beast does a video in response to that. Obviously, I'm giving that apology a big fat zero, which is also what James Charles is, a big fat zero.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

Oh, shit.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

I mean, it just speaks to something bigger about people being out of touch with reality as influencers when they live in a world of social media and how it's a growing problem that exists within our society as so many people consume social media influencers and the content and information they put out. But just how unrelatable and out of touch the person with the platform is. 17,000 people lost their jobs at Spirit Airlines. We didn't cover that. We were going to. We didn't lost their jobs. It was immediate. It was sudden. They woke up, they didn't have a job. That is in an economy where gas is on average, what, three, four dollars? That's where your groceries are way more than they were before. That is where, According to the U.S. bureau of Labor Statistics, 300,000 people have lost their jobs in the four months of 2026. That is the world we're living in. So think about how out of it you have to be to say, just go get another job and don't ask me for money. All this man needed to do was see the DM and then just ignore it if he wanted to. But instead, and this is why people are so upset, he ignores the economic reality that a lot of Americans live in. He chose to humiliate her publicly. And then he gives us, well, one. He also shows his privilege, and then he gives us this apology that means absolutely nothing. I have been in a situation where somebody said something with their full chest and a lot of passion, and then when they had to apologize because of all the backlash that they were receiving and their job was in jeopardy. They give a emotionless, heartless, cold apology and people are like, which one are you? No, you are the person who gave the initial response and you had so much emotion behind it. That was James Charles. He goes on, I don't even know how many minute rant degrading this person who has lost their job and possibly stands to lose so much more if they can't get another one just because they simply ask you to go fund their gofundme link. And I saw this and a lot of people were talking about this. I just think, I guess I just kind of. I know we do the apology rating, but I just want to break this cycle of people who are entitled and privileged, who with their whole chest, reveal who they are, their morals, what they value, what they consider in high regard in this society, and then they get backlash and that compromises their bottom dollar. They possibly might lose their entire. It might jeopardize their reputation, they might lose their job, money, all of that. So then they apologize, we're forced, we're told to accept it. And. And then the cycle continues again. Cuz this isn't the first controversy that James Charles has had. So I just, it frustrates me because I feel like people like that should be held accountable. I'm not saying that I'm promoting cancel culture, but let's not allow this person to have the influence that they do have when they're so irresponsible with their platform.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

So cancel them.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

Fine, don't support him. I'm not saying cancel, like take his page down or whatever. But like, don't support somebody who's so ugly to like, who only lives in a bubble of people who are like them, who are similarly situated with them with their socioeconomic status, with their job, with the places that they do when the very people that you're talking down to is the audience that gives you the money that you have. They're your followers, they're the people who like, they're the people who engage with your stuff. And you're talking to them like they're pieces of shit. And people like that should not be rewarded. I'm sorry, it shouldn't. And I think it's. And I think that the way James Charles is in this video is a reflection of. I think it's a bigger thing. It's a reflection of the society we live in, what we consider in high regard. Once you get to a certain place in society, you devalue those underneath you. And I just think it. It's bigger than just this social media rant. It just shows how we are, how people are.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

Question for you. Do you think that celebrities are people?

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

Yes.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

Okay, so I think this is the way we frame. Not what you're supposed to think, but this argument around this. I think it's easier if we don't see celebrities as people.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

Do you want to be seen not as a person?

[Van Lathan Jr.]

Yes.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

Don't you think that people already do that to you when they're. I'll use the Reddit, for example. I think that when people talk like that, they're not considering that you're a person. I don't like that.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

Well, let me tell you why I think it's useful, though. So, of course celebrities are people. Now, if celebrities were people and we looked at them as people, we'd be forced to deal with them the way we deal with people and the way we deal with people, the way you and I deal with each other or other people outside of this is people do something, and you go, hey, too far. Too much. And then you see how that person responds. Now, people respond to things by going, hey, man, fuck you. You. You know, I like this move. I hope y' all watch it on tv. Donnie, do you like this one? This is better than. Oh, Bernard, do it again. Oh, yeah, it's better when you do it like that. I like when they.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

How many times you see people do that in real life?

[Van Lathan Jr.]

Never. I've never actually. In real life. Y' all look. Y' all look. Y' all look on, on, on. Y' all have to watch. I've never seen in real life someone do this to somebody. Fuck you. Hey, fuck you. Hey, man, fuck you, you fucking mulion. Ah, you fucking mooly. I've never seen them do that before. Mulian is funny. I don't give a fuck with nobody. That's a funny one. Like, I've never seen anyone do that. But okay, so when people do that, then you get to decide whether or not that person actually cares. Like, sometimes you find out how much somebody cares about hurting your feelings after they've done it. Like, after they've hurt your feelings, you find out, does this person care about this? Is this person willing to address their behavior? Address my boundaries? Am I worth it to that person? We do that for people in our lives all the time. Actually, it's a requisite. Like, you teach that as kids. Say, sorry, be better. It's a requisite. We don't do it to Celebrities. We don't do it with celebrities. We assume that celebrities should already have known better, which is why we deperson them. The reason why I think that it's better if we don't look at them as people is because celebrities need to be controlled. I'll tell you why I think this and why I know this. I know firsthand the direct and obvious manipulation tactics that celebrities use to craft public image. I know the lengths that they go, even the best ones, the cool ones. I know the links that they go to. I know the chances that they take in order to make themselves a synthetic version of humanity. And I know that those things that they do are only governed by how you respond.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

Correct.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

So if this video would have come out and everybody would have been like, hey, James is the best and she shouldn't be asking. James wouldn't have done nothing. This video came out and James got the backlash that people would have for someone who said something so obviously wild. So James tempered his approach on it. Now, if we treat James as a person, then we have to say, hey, James made a mistake. He thought something in a real way that, you know, wasn't humanistic and that he realized it was wrong. And him apologizing took a lot of courage. Him apologizing took a lot of self reflection. That's the right thing to do. It's the only thing that you can do after you fucked up so bad. The only thing you can do is say sorry and offer heartfelt apologies and didn't do something else. That's treatment as a person as if we treat them as a celebrity. Which is how I think we should actually do this is we go, hey, you've crossed us. We make you so go sit in the corner like you. We make you. You're nothing without us. We as a group of people have decided what we think is appropriate. And if you go out and you do that type of shit, we not fucking with you. That is the same conversation we're having where people are making records and at the same time they're assaulting people. When people are making acting and at the same time they're supporting all this terrible, grotesque political stuff. What we're saying is, hey, I don't want to support you if you support putting kids in cages and all of that stuff like that. My affinity for you makes you who you are. If you like that, I'll find somebody else's support. And my overall point here is that you can't have it both ways. If we're. If you decide that we're going to treat people as people, then we have to be understanding the fact that people are going to fuck us and they're gonna have the wrong taste. And then we have to kind of deal with the reality of how they fuck up and how they come back from it. But if we treat celebrities like what they actually are, which is walking, talking, breathing brands, their advertisements, everything on their body was given to them by somebody who wants to see them in it. Every thought in their head for a lot of them, for a lot of them is meticulously crafted. It's the language is crafted, the walk is crafted, all of it. When you get to a certain point and that enriches them, then we have to be able to box them in. When the, when the shit on their, the stuff on their body is made out of elephant skin, the ideas in their head are politically putrid. We have to be able to go, nope, don't like it, get to the edge. We'll put somebody else that we like. That's the power of the average person when dealing with a celebrity. But you can't have it both ways. You can't have some celebrities that are people and other celebrities that are entities.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

Well, we disagree. I mean, I think that not all celebrities are the same, right? Not every celebrity has a particular crafted. There's an image, there's a brand there for sure. But not every celebrity moves the same way. Definitely a lot. Based on what you said. There are a lot of celebrities who move that way. But not all celebrities move because celebrities are famous or public figures are famous for different reasons. So their brand might not be the perfectly curated everything from head to toe. I'm like a walking advertisement. They might be a public figure for a different reason. So I'll disagree on that part. But the reason that the danger to me and not considering celebrities a person is where that can lead to the slippery slope of that. It allows people to not look at you as a human being with feelings or you're void of that kind of thing. And so then they talk to you any kind of way they, they which we've, we've. We've been subjected to the right. Like anybody and I like words, actions, they have an impact on you. And so if you start going down this road of a celebrity don't treat them like a person, then it allows, it opens a door for people to treat you any kind of way because they don't look at you, they don't value you as a human being. So I think that that can be dangerous. I think that There is a way to look at a celebrity as a person. We'll use James Charles here. And they do something continuously do some certain things and you hold them accountable for what they do. They apologize. Right. And it's up to you as a consumer, do I want to continue to support what you're doing or do I not? And I think that you can treat somebody as a human being with that. I can hold you accountable for it to where you say you're sorry, or maybe you donate to Spirit Airlines, GoFundMe in general, or maybe you particularly donate to this woman, or maybe you don't. And then I decide what I want to do after that. That's still treating somebody as a human being. Not to me, it's just holding them account. You hold human beings accountable and you decide what you want to do, how you want to move after that.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

Right? So the reason why I say so, the apology rating is a good metric of this, right? The apology rating almost always gets like a one or a two.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

It does.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

So every time we put somebody in the Every time we put somebody in the apology rating segment, it's to kick their ass for apologizing and so.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

Cause their apologies suck.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

Right? But the reason. So this is my point though. My point is I don't give a fuck about that because I understand that what you're actually doing is what I'm suggesting that people do. Now here's the deal. When I say treat celebrities not like people and treat celebrities like brands. There's also a personal responsibility here. The question to me always is how is your humanity reflected in the way you would treat someone? So how is them accepting an apology or even asking for forgiveness? That's a reflection on you. That is how like your. We get to a certain point to where how you view people in your relationships with them. You should not take continuous abuse from people or continuous bad behavior. I'm not saying that at all. Right? I'm not saying that to anyone because we don't do that. But what I'm saying is if you are the type of person that understands everything that I'm talking about surrounding celebrity and chooses to treat people like total shit, then that says more about you than it does them. I don't know one big star that doesn't have pr. When someone hires and has pr, that is so they look a certain way to the public. That is so they look a certain way to the people that consume the stuff that they're doing. I know the celebrities that I know they good people like the people That I know like huge stars, like, they. They're good people, like legitimately good people. But they are people who. It is their job to maintain a certain perception of themselves in the public. So the things they don't say when they should say them. Sometimes there are things that they say to me that they don't say publicly. There are things that they say and then they don't really mean them.

[Bernard]

Right.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

All of this is because part of their industry is maintaining a certain reputation with the public. It's just like being a politician. The most frustrating thing about the politician is you have a conversation with the politician on the fucking phone. The politician gets here and you go, why do you care about this so much? And they go, well, you know, I'm the son of a single mother that worked in a coal mine in South Hawaii in 1913. I'm like, what the fuck, nigga? I just talked to you. I was just on the phone with you. I was just on the phone with you and you was regular. And now we talking about single coal mine shit. You doing the shit, don't do the shit. But it's a high leverage job where their public image has to be sort of groomed and maintained. I'm saying this, it is easier for people to me to say, when people get out of line, we bust their ass. We get them back in line. We have people that align with our values. We don't accept any shit from them. Because if it's about treating people like people, then we have to understand, man, we have so many people in our lives that have done such terrible things, that have been such terrible places, that have overcome such things. Then you would have to look at this and accept this apology. You'd have to be like, hey, this is a guy that thought he was being funny, thought he was getting some shit off, thought he was saying all this stuff. And then maybe he realized that this was wrong and he is just a dude after all. Or just. I don't want to say just a dude. Is it.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

He's just a. I think he goes by a guy.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

He goes by a guy. Okay. I think I'm trying to be straight up. I'm trying to be shout out to.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

Yeah, I think.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

Yeah, okay. We have to. Some of these. Some of these apologies we'd have to accept is what I'm saying. Some of them we'd have to accept. Some of them sometimes we'd have to accept.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

Well, let's not start with this one.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

Let's not start with this one. But I understand. I understand what you mean? Cause when I started looking at all of this shit, this guy is a serial.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

He pushes the line a lot, and then we just. He just comes right back and I don't know. And maybe that's the difference. It's like, with the treating them like people versus it's like, this guy has a huge platform, which means he has a lot of influence, which means he's pushing out a certain thought or rhetoric or mindset to his millions and millions of followers. And when so many people get their news and information just from the people they follow, it creates a certain mindset, and it's just not great.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

I mean, to you, but James Charles sucks. To your point with the Reddit. Right, Sorry, y'. All, to your point with the Reddit. It's their Reddit.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

It is their Reddit. They created it.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

It's their Reddit. So I'm on the Reddit and I'm doing all this stuff. I'm like, yo, you know, they put my mom on the Reddit. They do all of that. I'm like, yo, this is not for me. I'm not a. To your point, I'm not a person to them. Like, I'm a dude spewing stuff. I'm not a person to them. So my thing is, if it's fuck me, it's fuck you. That's the way that it works. The horse doctrine. If it's fuck me, it's fuck you. And at the same time, get out of they fucking Reddit. Let them have they Reddit. It's they Reddit.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

Yeah. No, no, no, I get it.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

Yeah.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

I just feel like, you know, when we come on this podcast, I'm not pretending to be anybody except being myself. Like, I'm not. This is not a brand. This isn't anything. Now, there were other platforms that I was like. Remember you said there were various versions of Rachel.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

Right.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

This is the platform where I'm myself more than any than any other platform.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

But you do on your social media project a certain version of yourself.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

I mean, I put up higher learning.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

Yeah, I know, but, like, when I'm. I'm not trying to get into a conversation that. That gets into you.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

I also think there are certain things that I won't put on. No, there's certain things that I may have said on this podcast that I will not put on my page. True, Very true. Very true. Very true.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

Right.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

So, you know, I'm not trying to act like I'm not, so.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

And it's. And that's a part of it, man.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

You know.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

You know what I'm gonna say this, man. Shout out to the Reddit, man. Shout out to y' all what y' all got going on. You know what I'm saying? You know the Ringiverse Reddit I went off on? Did you see that?

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

No.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

I went crazy on the ringer verse.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

Why are you over there? Why haven't you learned your lesson?

[Van Lathan Jr.]

But I thought that the ringer verse was in community because we nerds. That hurts like that.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

The Reddit is a place to get your shit off.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

Well, we. I thought. See, I hold nerds to a higher standard. That's what really happened. They were mad cause we didn't cover

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

a specific show, and you went off on them. Cause of that.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

They was just going crazy. The show is called Invincible.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

Oh, okay.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

I found that. And then, you know, the funny thing is, I did start watching some of it.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

Should have covered it. They were right.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

That bitch is crazy, man.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

They were right.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

Well, it's this one guy. They put on his name Thrag.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

Thrag?

[Van Lathan Jr.]

Thrag? Yeah.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

Is this an animated thing?

[Van Lathan Jr.]

It's an animated thing. The animation don't look crazy, but they put Thrag on this bitch, man. Man, Thrag, man. Thrag that nigga, man.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

You can make it up to your Reddit.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

I can't do it now. I can't do it now.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

Cause now you already told them they were right.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

But see, I have no pro. I admit when I'm wrong. I'll say this. The thing about them, the tough thing now, is that I can't. I have a problem with. I'm not your bitch. You not gonna bitch me. I'm not your bitch.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

But if you were wrong, as you said, you don't have a problem admitting that, then maybe it's like, we should cover it. That'll make you their bitch. Be like, yeah, y' all had a good point.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

Cause. But here's the thing. You're right. That n. Thrag crazy. First of all, let me see what he looks like. Bring up Thrag right there. He got a fade. He got power. He didn't push Mark to a new limit. The show really got back on track, and I didn't want to watch it, but everybody kept talking about it. I was making these jokes and all of this stuff.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

You said Thrag has a fade.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

He got a Caesar. At least he's a Caesar. He got a Caesar. You know what I'm saying? He got a Caesar. He's played by Lee Pace. And I watched some of the shows. The show Was all crazy. But I was disappointed in them because I expect, if anyone else, I expect nerds to understand me even more than black people. Because nerds, that's me, man. I'm one of them.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

So you're a nerd first, then black, then a man.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

So let's rank them, because you know

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

how they do that. You know, they'd be like, I'm black first, then a woman. I'm a woman first. Then I'll be like. You know, people say that kind of stuff.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

Oh, that's crazy. Let's do the rankings. Hey, do you ever told you about the craziest line that a black woman ever told me. So. Moonlight came out, okay? And La La Land came out. And I liked La La Land better than Moon Knight. Moon Knight. Everything's better than Moon Knight. I liked La La Land better than Moonlight. Right?

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

All right. I love Moonlight. Love Moonlight. Shout out to Barry Mahershala, Janelle Monae, Trevonte Rose, Andre Holland. Beautiful fucking brutally beautiful movie, right? But La La Land is about people coming to LA and what you have to give up and all that stuff. It struck me deeply. I love the La La Land. So I go on tmz and I go, I think La La Land is better than Moonlight. The black community was none too pleased. Of course, people reached out. I'll never forget this. Sister hit me. And she goes, so La La Land is a story about a heterosexual couple out there chasing their dreams in la. You resonated with that. Moonlight is about black people finding love, queer black people finding love. Or the journey of a queer black man to understand and accept his identity. She goes, it's possible that you're straighter than you are black. And I was like, fuck. I was just dropped. It's possible that you're straighter than you are black. How does that make you feel? Then got off the phone. I'm like, what? You can't just leave.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

She wanted you to sit with it. Yeah, she wanted you to sit with it and you did. Here you are all these years later, still sitting with it.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

I still like La La Land better. It just, you know, kind of is what it is. Moonlight has. Is one of my favorite movies, but I just. It's very close. Like La La. Like La La Land. Slightly better, but back to the ranking.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

So now we gotta add straight in there.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

Straight? Yeah, straight is very important.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

So you said you're a nerd. Before nerds get you, you said. I'm sorry. You said, nerds understand you better.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

No, I said that the nerd thing. Okay, so this is what happened.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

What was the exact statement?

[Van Lathan Jr.]

It was not great, okay? If I'm being honest. But the nerd thing. Growing up, the nerd thing was the thing that. Cause I grew up black and everybody. I never had any issues with the black thing, right? But the nerd thing is what I had issues with. Even with the brothers. They would be like, what the fuck is Monty Python and the Holy Grail? Nigga, why you looking? We're not watching this. You know what I'm saying? Like, I used to watch Fat beach with the homies, and they asked after Fat beach, can we put on. You know? And they're like, we're not watching that. So the nerd thing is, like, where I really had to, like, struggle to find other nerds. And so I expect safety with the nerds in a way that I might not even expect safety with some of the brothers. Cause me and the brothers used to compete. We used to compete for everything. But me and the nerds, there was nothing to compete for. We was at the lock in.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

So they. You at the lock in as adults. That's. Is that not a fact? Donnie? What's the next.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

Is anyone gonna say anything on my behalf? Cause when I. Cause when I. Nope. Bernard. Nope. I need it from Jade because there's something that's happening where it's a Jade, like, Rachel thing and a Van Bernard thing, and that can't happen. I need it from Jade. I need it from Jade because that was a shot, and everybody could hear. Donny, was that not a shot? Is anyone gonna stick up for me? Who's gonna stick up for me?

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

You. You deserve to feel. What's the word?

[Van Lathan Jr.]

She's. It's so hard for her.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

No, it's.

[Bernard]

To be honest, I was.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

I was. It's so hard to be honest.

[Bernard]

I was, like, so hard for me to get any. I was working. Look at you.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

You're so happy with yourself as an adult. Wasn't necessary.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

They may not be happy in your truth, regardless. Well, for the new listeners, there might be somebody new who's listening to this podcast for the first time, and they are unaware of the original story. So I was just adding context to it, which is that you were, in fact, grown.

[Bernard]

You're.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

And you're also allowed to like

[Van Lathan Jr.]

your

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

nerves in.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

Donnie, are you going to. Is anybody who's.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

Who.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

No, it was too. You took too long.

[Bernard]

I was doing something.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

Is it okay if I have a moment where I.S. that is. I'm being attacked right now. Am I Not done.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

Attacked.

[Donnie]

Attacked. I feel like she just stated what it was. You were 21.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

Had a lock in at the moment,

[Donnie]

21 years old of drinking age with more context.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

Yeah, yeah.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

Okay. By the way, before we move on, my niggas at the lock in reached out. Shout out to Irvin, shout out to Kevin.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

I love that you keep in touch with me.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

Shout out to all my people. Shout out to Trey, Shout out to Dakota. Two people got married

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

from the lock in.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

Yeah, well, Dakota's sister used to be there and she got married to Demetrius. Demetrius married Dakota's sister.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

Oh, wow.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

Love at the lock in. Brianna does love on the left. We do love at the lock in. It's a happen. Okay, all right, next topic. I'll be quick on this one.

[Bernard]

All right.

[Donnie]

Caitlin Clark. She joined Morgan Wylan in his concert in Indianapolis Saturday night as a part of his still the problem tour. Clark is the latest big name to help Wallen kick off the start of a show. There were others such as Drake, Nick Saban, MoneyBagg Yo Tom Brady, Marshawn Lynch, Patrick Mahomes. The list could go on and on and on. There's a lot of people that did this. We haven't talked about Caitlyn in a while. What were yalls thoughts when you saw this?

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

I wasn't surprised.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

Surprised about what?

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

That Caitlin Clark did a walkout in Indianapolis with Morgan Wallen.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

Why aren't you surprised?

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

She looks like she'd be a fan of his music. That's what I'm saying.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

So I'm gonna say this. First of all, Caitlin Clark is in no way, shape or form a racist. No way, shape or form a racist. Caitlin Clark is right now. I have a nickname from Caitlin Clark that I'm shopping around.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

Go ahead.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

Madame Morrison.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

Why?

[Van Lathan Jr.]

Because her career is kind of shaping out closer to Adam Morrison than it is anything else. I say that in jest. Caitlin Clark as of late on the basketball court is going through it. The first game that she played, she scored 20, but she had like five or six turnovers. She shot like 30% from the field. She was like 2 of 9 from 3. So something's happened with Caitlin Clark since she's been dealing with her injury issues to where she's lost her three points.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

Yeah, she kept leaving the court during I watched the game. She kept leaving to get adjusted for her back.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

Right. So she's not hitting her threes. She's turning the ball over. The Fever had a lot of success on the court without Caitlin Clark, and so a lot of People are wondering what Caitlin Clark is like as a basketball player. Right. The Morgan Wallen thing. Shout out to all my people over at Outkick that were outraged that I put LOL over the top of outraged. And the reason why I thought it was funny, not because I think Caitlin Clark is a racist or that Caitlin Clark in any way is aligned with Morgan Wallen because she liked the fact that Morgan Wallen said the N word. People don't know Morgan Wallen said the N word back in the day. And here's the thing for Morgan Wallen, once you are in the N word hall of fame as a white guy, it's a hall of fame you can't really get out of.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

Yeah. It doesn't matter how many rappers you have featured on your albums and all of that.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

Right.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

Black community doesn't feel like that.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

There's a lot of things that the community will accept. A white guy saying the N word for a lot of people still is that type of cardinal sin to where they're going to believe in perpetuity, that some kind of way that is in your heart. And when you look at a black person, you see nigga. And it's a tough thing. The reason why I said LOL is after Caitlin Clark had had the game that she had to, where everyone was talking about whether or not she is viable as the face of the WNBA anymore, I couldn't think of a funnier occurrence legitimately.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

I know I couldn't think of a

[Van Lathan Jr.]

funnier thing for her to do, a funnier thing for her to do than to walk out with Morgan Wallen. So as Caitlin Clark is such a lightning rod, I fuck with her and joke with her. Right. It's clear how talented Caitlin Clark is, but she has become a lightning rod for stuff, for stuff that has nothing to do with basketball. That is not necessarily fair to her. Also, a lot of this stuff is not fair to Angel Reese. How Angel Reese is treated and how these guys have these guys, how these ladies have been pitted up against each other. But after you have the game, the first game of the season, where it looks like some of the struggles that you've been having on the basketball court are gonna carry on into this season. And it's one game.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

It's one game.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

It's one fucking game, right?

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

Dallas Wings look good, though.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

Paige getting busy.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

They look good.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

Yeah. Paige getting busy. Paige.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

Not Paige. Dallas.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

Eight to ten, man. You know what I'm saying? It's like, bing, bong, bing, bong, bong, bing, boom.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

It was a Good game.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

Yeah, it was a good game. So like, after she had that, the funniest thing to do was after that to walk out with an N word, white boy. Like, that's just. I'm like, is Kalen sitting back? Like, all right, the season's up. Let's give him something to talk about. Right? And so that's why it was funny to me. Is this a thing? No. Like Morgan Wallen. I don't know his music, but people love the music. I know a couple of songs and the shit be going a little bit.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

They're good, they're good.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

So there have been so many people who have walked out with Morgan Wallen at this point. So many people.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

I don't think any women. I think she might be the only. I was looking at a list and I couldn't find another woman.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

Right. Oh, okay, that's interesting.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

It's like mostly like athletes.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

Athletes. You had list.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

A lot of black people.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

Lot of black people. You had Drake, you had Patrick Mahomes.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

I had to. It was there in front of me. I had to.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

I had to see.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

I had to. It was just so easy.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

That was a shot.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

Oh no. It was, but I had to. I wasn't going to.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

Get the fucking mic off, Bernard, please.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

I wasn't.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

Get the mic off, Bernard.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

I wasn't gonna say anything. I said it and then I was like, oh, wait. It's just so right there in front of me. I have to throw them in. It was just too easy.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

That's funny. I mean, it's not untrue. So like, you know, walking out with Morgan Wallen is not exactly the most controversial thing right now, but was funny for her to do it knowing that it would be steroids for this Caitlin Clark socio political debate over who her fan base is and all of that stuff along with the fact that she had just had this game where people are wondering, like, is Caitlin Clark the basketball player that we thought she was?

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

That's what I was thinking of. And it was a loss. They lost the game. And she was like, well, I gotta finish this press conference. Hurry up, get ready, get adjusted one more time. Cause I got a long walk from backstage to the stage. I thought of it the same way that you did. But sometimes I think people think that she's indifferent. But then I think people also, when it comes to, I guess, black issues, but I think people also forget that she has spoken out about her privilege and that she knows that people have paved the way before her that don't look like her she understands the privilege that she has within the WNBA system. She's talked about people don't use my name to degrade other WNBA black players. And somehow that always gets lost in the conversation. Conversation. And I'm not here to, like, take up for her, but we need to be. The reality of the situation is she has spoken out multiple times and. But I think, you know, either people don't know it. They choose to ignore it. But to your point also, it's just Morgan Wallen and he never gets. They're never going to be okay with. They think that if you affiliate with Morgan Wallen, then you are. That is saying something. And some people just can't see past that.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

Yeah. You know, is with her. I'll say this. I think there's a bunch of different arguments that are being had. Number one, I want Caitlin Clark to be a great player and to do all the same shit she did in college. And I'll tell you why. Yeah, I'll tell you why. I love having players that are fucking phenomenal that I hate that I get to root against. I like having great players to root against. Because, number one, nothing is better than when a great player subjugates you with the sheer force of their sports will. And it's happened before. LeBron basically did that. Wemby is doing that to me right now. I got the Wemby sick. Get the fuck off me. Wemby. You know, I came out as a. I debuted as a Wemby hater early on.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

You did.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

Early on, I was with the Wemby hate and Wemby, man, even in games where he can't make a shot, man, that bitch had 12 block shots. I'm like, God damn, it's gonna be hard hating on this guy. But I'm up for the challenge.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

You know, it's the rivalry of it. It's what makes. That's why we talked about the Caitlyn versus Angel. Even though one was favored more than the other, it still benefited them both. It brought attention to it. It, like, raised their platform. Like it's. You want rivalry in sports. You want someone to root against as equally as you want somebody to root for.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

There's one thing I hate more than any individual players, because they're players. I hate when somebody doesn't reach their potential because it's such a profound thing when somebody comes out and they have all of this talent and all of this potential, and then they don't reach it for reasons that deal with injury or maybe it's in their Head or whatever, man. I watched this fucking YouTube video about Jimmer for Debt and I was like, God damn. It would have been fucking awesome if Jimmer Fredette. Jimmer for Debt. For Debt Jamer. Fredette would have been able to like make the same type of impact. I just don't like that. I don't like when you was the man at one point and then you not the man anymore.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

Yeah, yeah.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

I do not. I do not like that. So I don't want to see that happen to her because the longer she struggles, the more I'm going to actually be rooting for her to figure it out.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

Yeah, you don't want them to have peaked, right?

[Van Lathan Jr.]

But this was fucking funny. And I'm sorry, guys. After that game, everybody's like, can Caitlin Clark fucking do it? Blah, blah, blah. Everybody overreacts to the first game. I'm putting it in all group chats. And then she walks out with Morgan Wallen and everybody goes. She's leaning into the people that are the Caitlin Clark purists that represent the worst parts of the Internet. She just. That's funny. Fuck what y' all talking about? That's funny. That's funny. All right, I'm done. No more topics for me. What you got?

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

Oh, I got one more. I got one more.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

Donnie, this is called a clear out.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

All right.

[Donnie]

Yeah, the. The Internet was buzzing this weekend about a white lady who has openly supported Trump online becoming a member of Alpha Kappa Alpha sorority incorporated at Stillman College. She apparently has made some of her socials private. But yeah, this is caused an uproar and we have a Divine Eye representative to react to this.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

Yeah, I mean, guys, 2026 is supposed to be a good year for all of us, Year of the fire horse. But it is burning up in a way for the AKAs that I could have never predicted. I mean, this might be the worst of the worst. You know, it's already controversial to hat when you see for some people a white person or non black go to an HBCU. It's even more controversial when they pledge a Divine 9 sorority or fraternity at an HBCU. And let me be clear, there's a vetting process, right? And to each their own. Right. That's a whole nother conversation we can get into whether you think that should happen or not because of historically why the Divine Nine was created and what they were excluded from. And can a person who's not black carry out the mission and the goals and all of that and further the foundation of the sorority? Or fraternity in the same way a black person could. That's an argument for a different day. But let's just talk about this. To be in a. I'll say D9, you are vetted, or at least you're supposed to be. You go through an application process. You have to have letters of recommendation. To which I say, who wrote that letter? You have to have letters of recommendation from somebody within the sorority, fraternity. Your resume, community service. All these things have to go out there. I would imagine for me, when I pledge, all we had was Facebook, so there wasn't a deep dive into social media, but I would imagine in 2026, there would be. Now, the girl who is being alleged to be the white, AKA Trumper, who attends an hbcu, she has her pages private, but there are some sites that show that she repost a lot of anti Kamala Harris stuff. Her sorority sister, she reposted a lot of anti Kamala Harris stuff and in favor of pro Trump stuff. And to that, I say, how did this happen? Again, I repeat, and I'm sorry to keep saying this, but Delta Sigma Theta would never. We would never. How did this. Past the process. At this point, you guys need to come together, and you need to strategize. You know, we spend a lot of this podcast talking about the left and the Democrats, but there needs to be a call in of Alpha Kappa Alpha and figure out what the hell is going on. Too many public mistakes are happening. I just. I'm worried about y'.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

All.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

I'm speaking of a place from concern, and that's really all I have to say at this point. They can't take her letters away. She's one of them. But, like, I've seen videos of her in her pink and green, holding up, you know, the mirror, putting her hands out side to side like y' all do. I'm not gonna imitate it.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

Why not?

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

It's. It's rough. It's rough. And I'm just rooting for y' all to get a win in 2026.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

This is well said. Let me ask you a question. Sure. Why people be able to join D9 sororities?

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

I said, that's for another.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

I want to ask you, like, should white people be able to join D9 fraternities and sororities? Ask you a question, shout out to my man, Sam White. Sam White is a Kappa. His sister is a Delta. White.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

His sister's a Delta.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

Where? His sister's a Delta? I don't know. I think in Philly, they have, like, Maybe city chapters. Cause I think Sam went to, like, either Villanova or a temple or something. Like. Anyway, whatever.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

I don't. It's tough.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

So white people should be able to join it.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

It's tough, right? Because these sororities and fraternities were built because in a response to racial exclusion and oppression. So it's like, can a non black person authentically represent and carry forward an institution that was built on these things? It's tough. I'll tell you this. Prior to me being in my chapter, there was. Everybody was black. Since I have left, there are non black people a part of the sorority or our chapter. I would just say this. It would be hard for me to be in line strutting behind a white person. But I can't say that they. It's just. It's tough. It's tough. I just think that they have to be. Let me say it this way. I'm not gonna say that they shouldn't. They should just be properly vetted. And clearly, that was not done here. Like, I don't. I know non black people that pledged at University of Texas, in other D9 fraternities, sororities, and fraternities. So I don't want to say that they can't. And they're great people, the ones that I know. But you just got to be truly understand what this means to people who have pledged this, what it means to the people who've come before you. What this was built on and what your duty is as a member within this organization moving forward is like what you're supposed to carry out, what you're supposed to represent. And I tell you, it's not Trump. I mean, just the craziness of it. Like, how did this happen? Trump is literally actively fighting DEI and taking money away and doing things that specifically impact the schools that you go to, the jobs that you may have, and the very organization that you're a part of, and you let one of them in. Allegedly.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

I'm just. All right, I'm not. I ain't got nothing to add. I just wanted to ask you the question, just let you know that I

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

saw it and I said, it's not getting enough attention.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

No, you jumped. The D9 battles is beginning.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

It's not getting enough attention.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

The D9 battles is beginning.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

All right, take us out.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

We out of here. Shout out to the AKA's man made this battle with you and Rachel.

[Unknown Speaker]

Peace.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

I'm rooting for you. Y'. All. Thought y' all were up. When they commonly get in office. 2021. 2020. November 20th to 2024.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

Yeah.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

Thought they were up.

[Van Lathan Jr.]

Put all of this together. I can't wait. Take DCAPs off. Do not stop learning. I'm Van Lathan Jr.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsey]

I'm Rachel Lynn Lindsey. Oh, Sam.