Podcast Summary: Higher Learning with Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay

Episode: L.A. Hip-Hop Culture with Nana, and Sydney Sweeney Speaks
Date: December 9, 2025
Producer: The Ringer

Episode Overview

This episode of "Higher Learning" features Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay diving into a packed cultural conversation. The hosts kick off with their signature blend of banter and debate—touching on fame, chivalry, and changing social norms—before shifting to deeper segments. Key highlights include a nuanced discussion about Jason Derulo's comments on working with women post-MeToo, a rich, in-depth interview with LA rapper NaNa about the realities and perception of LA hip-hop, and a pointed analysis of Sydney Sweeney’s recent PR controversy. The episode closes with a fun, competitive revisit of “First Take” debates (Max Kellerman vs. Stephen A. Smith), dissecting sports, race, and media dynamics.

Main Discussion Points and Insights

1. Who’s More Famous: Michael Jackson or Mickey Mouse?

• [00:13-02:19]
  • Hosts debate universal fame, with Rachel choosing Mickey Mouse for his enduring, global Disney ties, despite her love for Michael Jackson.
  • “Mickey’s been famous longer… a figure with Disney ties will never lose its steam.” — Rachel Lindsay [00:48]
  • Van notes the fascinating proximity of Michael’s fame to a character like Mickey Mouse, raising questions about the nature of iconic celebrity.

2. Is Chivalry Outdated?

• [03:28-11:36]
  • Van quizzes Rachel on whether traditionally “gentlemanly” acts (like helping women park, or complimenting from a car) still fly in 2025.
  • Both agree that genuine, non-creepy compliments and help can still be well-received, with nuance about context and intention.
    • “If we live in a society where it’s problematic to compliment a woman…we have real problems.” — Rachel Lindsay [08:51]
  • Amusing moment: Van compliments Rachel’s “forehead,” leading to playful teasing and a backhanded-compliment debate.
    • “You walked out into the world today mind first. And I like that.” — Van Lathan [09:51]
    • Rachel (deadpans): “Who tells anybody they step into the world mind first?” [10:07]
  • They muse on the evolving bar for male-female social conduct, especially given rising concerns about boundaries.

3. Jason Derulo’s Controversial Work Stance

• [12:57-24:16]
  • Discussion of Derulo’s vow to not be alone with women he works with after facing (later-dismissed) harassment lawsuits.
    • “Never work with women… there’s truth in every joke, but it’s a sad truth.” — NaNa quoting Derulo [13:17]
  • Rachel empathizes with Derulo taking personal precautions after his legal ordeal, but stresses context: “I think that makes sense…he’s making it particular to his situation.” [15:27]
  • Van argues that blanket policies (“never work with women”) are destructive, noting broader implications for workplace gender equity:
    • “That attitude is contagious… now women have to jump through hoops to collaborate.” [21:42]
  • Both agree precautions like cameras or witnesses are reasonable, but the trend is worrying if it spreads across industries.

4. LA Hip-Hop Culture Deep Dive: Interview with NaNa

LA Identity & Culture

• [25:16-30:50]
  • NaNa embraces “LA rapper” as a badge, explaining the pride and identity of being from South Central LA.
    • “It’s like a franchise… there’s a lot that comes with being from LA.” — NaNa [26:25]
  • Addresses misconceptions: True LA culture is south of the 10 Freeway, not Hollywood/Santa Monica.
    • “If you’ve never traveled past the 10, don’t say you hate LA.” [28:03]
  • Rachel admits LA feels “closed off” to newcomers, especially during COVID years. NaNa stresses connections matter for feeling the city’s heart.

On Belief, Industry Pressures, and the Internet

• [29:49-49:52]
  • NaNa is big on self-belief, especially navigating an industry where label pushes and TikTok virality can overshadow true talent.
    • “Believing in myself is what got me here… so many things can strip you of your confidence.” [29:49]
  • Both hosts and NaNa discuss the “culture vs. audience” dilemma: talent often doesn’t match mainstream success. NaNa names artists who cultivate strong fanbases despite lack of huge industry backing (Freddie Gibbs, Killer Mike).
  • “How do you stay yourself when they want you to rap like somebody else?” — Van Lathan [31:42]
  • NaNa critiques the overexposure social media brings, arguing “the internet killed the superstar”—fans have too much access, eroding mystery and reverence.
    • “There’s certain things we shouldn’t see…there was more reverence when artists were less accessible.” [47:45]

Guests in the Culture

• [33:28-36:36]
  • Explores “guests” in hip-hop—non-Black participants’ place in Black culture, using Aiden Ross vs. Bootleg Kev as examples.
    • “Bootleg Kev is an ally—he understands his position in the space.” — NaNa [35:09]
  • Names Eminem and Mac Miller as guests that understood and respected hip-hop culture.

Street Ties and Regionality

• [37:58-49:52]
  • NaNa and Van explore whether LA rappers can succeed without street affiliations (yes, with caveats).
  • Discussion of why LA rappers (even stars) remain underrated, and how some LA music is viewed as too “regional” for mainstream appeal; NaNa says regional sounds used to strengthen music scenes.

Family, Upbringing, and Authenticity

• [39:19-44:44]
  • NaNa, a “PK” (preacher’s kid), describes his supportive Ghanaian parents and how he initially hid his rap passions but now embraces both faith and music as forms of ministry.
  • Shares a touching story about his music being played for Nipsey Hussle before Nipsey’s passing.

Playful “Homie” Prank

• [49:52-54:54]
  • Van jokes with NaNa, calling him a “lil nigga” in rap (relative to vets)—turning it into a staged (and convincing) confrontation. Rachel’s reaction (“I was mortified!”) adds comic relief and showcases their real-life chemistry.
    • “Why did you ask him that? …That’s so offensive.” — Rachel Lindsay [52:00, 101:22]
    • They debrief afterward, with NaNa commending the hosts for their platform and accountability.

5. Sydney Sweeney PR Drama

• [55:59-64:28]
  • Sydney Sweeney responds to backlash over an American Eagle ad and perceptions of political alignment.
  • Rachel’s take: Sweeney’s initial dismissive attitude toward controversy (“You laughed and giggled… you were very cavalier”) [57:02] fueled further backlash. Her more recent, conciliatory statement is damage control after poor box office results.
    • “The biggest mistake she made is acting like she said, it doesn’t affect me. And then they said, oh just wait. And now it’s affecting her.” — Rachel Lindsay [63:59]
  • Van draws broader lessons about movie stardom and the dangers of being “divisive.”
    • “She’s become a divisive cultural figure…to be a movie star, most people have to agree on you.” [60:18]

6. Max Kellerman vs. Stephen A. Smith: Revisiting Old First Take Debates

• [66:38-96:53]
  • As a meta-segment, Van and Rachel “score” legendary First Take debates, analyzing arguments on NBA drug policy, Black Lives Matter, LeBron vs. KD, and the infamous Terrell Owens “blacker than you” moment.
    • Notable quote: “He used to make Max look like Malcolm X on that bitch, bro.” — Van Lathan [93:00]
  • Rachel and Van offer behind-the-scenes insights from working with Stephen A. Smith, discussing his “company man” reputation and interpersonal dynamics (especially with women and Black colleagues).
  • They emphasize being cautious about who edits or counsels you in corporate settings (“Be careful who you let edit you. Be careful who you complain to.” — Van Lathan [74:12])
  • Both reminisce about the “old First Take,” its energy, and the double standards Black athletes face with commentators.

Notable Quotes & Moments (with Timestamps)

• On Michael vs. Mickey:

  • “A Mickey Mouse figure with the Disney ties will never lose its steam. It’ll never fade.” — Rachel Lindsay [00:48]

• On Compliments & Chivalry:

  • “If we live in a society where it’s problematic to compliment a woman, we have real problems.” — Rachel Lindsay [08:51]

• Jason Derulo’s Rule:

  • “He is now saying that he no longer wants to put himself in those situations. I would think that if I was accused of something that I am saying I did not do, I would want to protect myself…” — Rachel Lindsay [15:27]
  • “That attitude is contagious.” — Van Lathan [21:42]

• On LA Hip-Hop:

  • “It’s like Los Angeles Lakers… I wear very proudly, you know, South Central Los Angeles. Yes, sir. South of the 10 Freeway.” — NaNa [26:25]
  • “How do you stay yourself when they want you to rap like somebody else?” — Van Lathan [31:42]

• On Internet and Fame:

  • “There was more reverence, there was more respect when you didn’t see your favorite artist everywhere.” — NaNa [47:45]

• Van’s Forehead Compliment:

  • “You walked out into the world today mind first. And I like that.” — Van Lathan [09:51]
  • “Who tells anybody they step into the world mind first?” — Rachel Lindsay [10:07]

• On Sweeney:

  • “The biggest mistake she made is acting like she said, it doesn’t affect me. And then they said, oh just wait. And now it’s affecting her.” — Rachel Lindsay [63:59]

• On Speaking Up in Companies:

  • “Be careful who you let edit you. Be careful who you complain to.” — Van Lathan [74:12]

• On Stephen A./Max Dynamics:

  • “He used to make Max look like Malcolm X on that bitch, bro.” — Van Lathan [93:00]
  • “Max kind of wins because he knew to shut the up. Max said, go ahead.” — Rachel Lindsay [91:38] (Terrell Owens “blacker than you” moment)

Important Timestamps

• Fame debate: [00:13–02:19]
• Chivalry and social norms: [03:28–11:36]
• Jason Derulo controversy: [12:57–24:16]
• Intro: NaNa, LA hip-hop: [25:16–49:52]
• Homie prank & debrief: [49:52–54:54; 101:22–103:28]
• Sydney Sweeney/American Eagle: [55:59–64:28]
• Stephen A./Max Kellerman old debates: [66:38–96:53]
• Meta workplace/corporate advice: [72:52–76:23]

Tone and Style

The podcast maintains an energetic, authentic, and occasionally irreverent tone. Van and Rachel mix personal anecdotes, hot takes, social critique, and humor. Guest NaNa blends earnestness with cultural pride; the atmosphere is warm and conversational but also analytical, never shying away from honest debate or awkward questions.

Closing Thoughts

This episode of "Higher Learning" is a masterclass in blending pop culture with cultural critique, moving effortlessly between lighthearted banter and serious discussion. The candid conversation with NaNa offers valuable insights into LA hip-hop’s inner workings and the evolving relationship between artists, audience, and authenticity. The hosts’ sharp takes on industry controversies and their behind-the-scenes sports media gossip make this a standout episode for fans of culture, sports, and hip-hop.

For listeners who missed this episode, this summary captures both the key issues and the spirit of the conversation—serving up the best jokes, debates, and critical moments with the flavor and context intact.