Higher Learning with Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay

Episode: "LaBeouf Takes Louisiana. Plus, Colbert, Crockett, and Talarico."

Date: February 20, 2026
Podcast by The Ringer

Episode Overview

This episode dives into a blend of headline and cultural topics, ranging from a viral Shia LaBeouf saga in New Orleans and incisive commentary on Black representation, to the shifting landscape in progressive Democratic politics. Hosts Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay unpack everything from wild dreams and pop culture controversies, to in-depth political analysis with special guest Congresswoman Cori Bush. The episode maintains its signature blend of playfulness, nuanced debate, and advocacy for Black perspectives.

Key Topics & Discussion Points

1. Dream Sequences & Symbolism

(00:07–07:47)

• Van opens with a surreal dream involving Ozark characters, "Niggertown, USA," and Kenya Barris tipping off the police.
  • "So you know what happened at the end of this dream? I was arrested for eating illegal foods... Kenya Barris is the one that tipped them off." (01:12)
• Rachel shares her own symbolic dream: a post-apocalyptic world, zombies (all women, inc. Hannah Storm), and Hidden Valley Ranch bottles as protection.
  • Van interprets Rachel's dream through an Afro-pessimist lens, discussing the symbolism of “mayonnaise” and assimilation pressures on Black women.
  • "You're being attacked by white women who are zombies... their secret sauce, mayonnaise. They want you to be one of them... but you say no." – Van (06:52)
• Memorable Quote:
  • Rachel: "What ranch? What's the base of Ranch?" – "Mayonnaise." – "Boom." (06:25)

2. Tyra Banks & Accountability in Pop Doc Culture

(10:36–20:24)

• Rachel and Van discuss the new America’s Next Top Model documentary, critiquing Tyra Banks’ lack of accountability for some controversial show moments, especially a storyline involving participant Shandy and questions of agency and consent.
  • Rachel: "I feel like something was missing... accountability, the truth, more people from the cast." (11:32)
• Van critiques the nature of modern celebrity documentaries, arguing they have become “vanity pieces” lacking journalistic objectivity.
• Quote:
  • Van: "If you actually had a journalist do a documentary on a subject or on a thing, then what you are going to get is the controversy of that, the sort of cultural considerations then and now..." (16:13–17:14)

3. Reflecting on Jesse Jackson’s Legacy

(21:51–32:45)

• The hosts thoughtfully commemorate the life and impact of Rev. Jesse Jackson, tracing his civil rights activism, progressive politics, and enduring legacy.
  • Van: "It wasn't essentialist in any way in terms of from a racial or even class or even political lens. Jesse had a message for everyone." (23:40)
  • Rachel extends on the “American quilt” as Jackson’s metaphor, the importance of unity among all marginalized people.
• Discussion highlights the struggle of progressive “rainbow” politics in today’s context and the enduring challenges facing Black Americans.
• Lighthearted detour into Eddie Murphy’s Jesse Jackson impression from SNL.

4. The Shia LaBeouf "White Hurricane" in Louisiana

(34:07–43:04)

• Van delivers a humorous but pointed plea for “the Louisiana diaspora” to rally against Shia LaBeouf, who’s making a scene across New Orleans during Mardi Gras.
  • Van: "There is a terror in Louisiana that we have not seen in a long time. And his name is Shia LaBeouf. He has to be stopped." (34:07)
  • Rachel balances the humor with concern for LaBeouf’s addiction issues.
  • "He clearly needs some help. And I hope he gets it." – Rachel (42:43)
• This opens up commentary on cultural appropriation, outsider influence, and the importance of local ownership of Black cultural spaces.

5. FCC, Colbert, Crockett & Talarico—Media, Campaigns, and Free Speech

(43:46–68:18)

• Detailed breakdown of the FCC/Equal Time Rule controversy tied to Stephen Colbert's interview with James Talarico, and Jasmine Crockett’s campaign’s response.
  • Rachel delivers context: "The FCC has opened an investigation on The View... and now they're doing it again with James Talarico, with Colbert.” (45:44)
  • Jasmine Crockett’s statements and Van & Rachel’s opposing interpretations: is this about campaign strategy, anti-Trump resistance, or media bias?
  • Notable Quotes:
    • Rachel: "She changed the opportunity a little bit between the first and the second one." (51:00)
    • Van: "The problem is... we are having identity brawls across the party... All of those things come secondly to whether or not we are looking robustly into these people's history in terms of what they voted for..." (65:35)
• Spirited back-and-forth explores divisions within the Democratic Party, the uses and misuses of identity politics, and the meta-strategy in contemporary campaigns.

6. Race, Relationships, and Representation

(76:07–85:34)

• Responding to Patrick Bet-David’s viral commentary on Black politicians marrying white spouses.
  • Rachel pushes back: "I just think it's such a lazy argument... It doesn't take away from what they're able to speak on when it comes to the culture." (77:14)
  • Van poses an uncomfortable hypothetical: "Do you think that Obama would have been elected president if he had a white wife?" (81:09)
  • Both agree a Black president’s marriage to a white woman would likely have complicated Black community support, exposing issues of perceived authenticity and kinship.

7. Introduction to Afro-pessimism & Black Identity

(87:48–111:46)

• Van introduces Afro-pessimism via an explainer video; the theory posits that Blackness in America is rooted in social death and inherited property status, and asks whether liberation is possible within (or outside of) that construct.
  • Van: "The original unifying theory of blackness was for a purpose... that black people were property." (91:14)
  • Rachel: "Other than how she's taking what we know and saying, because of those things, we are the walking dead... which I would just push back against." (95:51)
• The hosts explore tensions between pride in Black cultural creation and the structural persistence of anti-Blackness.
• Van’s “hoe and pimp” analogy (110:00) is used to discuss self-definition under oppressive labeling.
• Both express skepticism regarding the idea of “rejecting Blackness” as a pathway to freedom.

8. Interview with Congresswoman Cori Bush

(112:08–151:57)

A. Bush vs. Bell in Missouri

• Cori Bush shares her history as a fighter for her community, her legislative record, and the contrasts between her and primary challenger Wesley Bell.
  • Cori: "I care about people getting their needs met... I'll run to the front and push for the issues. He'll just participate." (113:24)

B. Dark Money and AIPAC in Democratic Primaries

• Discussion of outsized pro-Israel money in Democratic primaries targeting progressives like Bush; she vows to counteract with grassroots organizing.
  • “$15 million was spent against you?” “Yes.” (118:26)

C. Priorities for her District and Nationwide

• Focuses on local recovery after natural disaster, food deserts, economic justice, gerrymandering (voter suppression), and making utilities a human right.
  • "We should be making sure people have access to get to where they need to go... This is just making sure that we provide decency." (127:57)
• Sees opposition to ICE as a priority, warning about the expanding carceral state.

D. Democratic Party Divide

• Bush observes the lack of support from Democratic establishment for progressives, attributes it to money and seniority rather than best ideas or expertise.
  • "We're not seeing that. It's the same people over and over again. Well, it's my turn. Well, no, it's the people's turn." (136:36)

E. Voter ID Laws & Suppression

• Van and Bush break down why strict voter ID requirements are a method of voter suppression—disproportionately affecting the poor, Black, and Southern voters.
  • "If you have to put forth money to be able to vote, that becomes a poll tax." (139:23)
  • Rachel asserts: "Anything further than where we are right now is voter suppression, period. Because voter fraud is not an issue." (155:38)

F. St. Louis Food Culture (Lighter Moment)

• Cori details local delicacies: fried (toasted) ravioli, St. Paul sandwich, duck fried rice, and ribs—making the political personal and local.
  • "A St. Paul is a sandwich. It's egg foo young... white bread. It is the best." – Cori (147:24)

G. On Nelly performing at Trump’s Liberty Ball

• Cori weighs loyalty to St. Louis icons against political choices:
  • "I had feelings. I just think as a community, we have to figure out what that looks like. And I would love to have that conversation with Nelly about it..." (149:30)

9. Pop Culture Round-Up: Tyler Perry's Beauty in Black

(161:33–170:41)

• The hosts preview a commitment to cover Tyler Perry’s Netflix series Beauty in Black, humorously noting the show’s wildness, soap operatic plotting, and meme-worthy moments.
  • Rachel: "It's so bad, it's good." (171:34)
• Van: "This is the preeminent podcast of Tyler Perry's Beauty and Black. We cover it here. We cover everything else that involves Tyler Perry too." (169:19)

Notable Quotes

• On Black identity:
  • Van: "For me, right now, the most important thing about black people is shared safety... what black means is that we view each other as human." (105:44)
• On Democratic infighting:
  • Van: "We are having identity brawls across the party. It is leftist vs. centrist, black vs. white... what we are doing... will be tremendously destabilizing if the Democrats do not find a way to put their arms around it." (65:35)
• On activism and effectiveness:
  • Cori Bush: "You use your words, I'll use my actions to bring about change." (124:56)
• On voter suppression:
  • Rachel: "Anything further than where we are right now is voter suppression, period. Because voter fraud is not an issue." (155:38)

Timestamps for Key Segments

| Segment | Time | |---|---| | Opening Dream Sequences | 00:07–07:47 | | Tyra Banks/ANTM Documentary | 10:36–20:24 | | Jesse Jackson Tribute | 21:51–32:45 | | Shia LaBeouf in Louisiana | 34:07–43:04 | | Colbert, FCC, Crockett, Talarico | 43:46–68:18 | | Race & Relationships | 76:07–85:34 | | Afro-pessimism Discussion | 87:48–111:46 | | Cori Bush Interview | 112:08–151:57 | | St. Louis Food/Nelly | 146:35–151:35 | | Tyler Perry & Beauty in Black | 161:33–170:41 |

Overall Tone & Takeaways

The episode blends irreverent humor with deep, incisive cultural analysis and passionate political advocacy. Van and Rachel move fluidly between personal stories, trenchant social critique, and policy debates, always foregrounding Black perspectives and voices. Guest Cori Bush exemplifies this commitment to local realities and progressive vision. The podcast closes on a note of solidarity, self-reflection, and a pledge to spotlight lesser-acknowledged Black popular culture, serving as both educators and passionate fans.