LeBron James vs. Memphis. Plus, Joe Rogan and Theo Von on the War in Iran

Summary

Podcast Summary: Higher Learning with Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay

Episode: "LeBron James vs. Memphis. Plus, Joe Rogan and Theo Von on the War in Iran"
Date: April 7, 2026
Hosts: Van Lathan & Rachel Lindsay
Podcast: The Ringer

---

Overview

In this engaging and wide-ranging episode, Van and Rachel tackle major touchpoints in Black culture, sports, and politics. The conversation weaves humor, personal anecdotes, and fiery debate through topics including LeBron James' controversial comments about Memphis, U.S.-Iran tensions and media responses (Joe Rogan and Theo Von), viral celebrity moments, Edward Blum’s ongoing legal attacks on civil rights, and a memorable Trick Daddy performance at an AKA regional conference.

The tone is candid, passionate, irreverent, and deeply rooted in both personal and cultural context, providing listeners with both insight and entertainment.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Cultural Catch-Up and Community Events

• Rachel’s Weekend: Rachel recounts a chill weekend filled with taxes and movies, notably her emotional response to "Project Hail Mary." (00:19–01:47)
• Van’s Community Experience: Van attends a radical event with Melina Abdullah and others, reflecting on the energy of spaces actively interrogating American power and the need for including a range of voices and perspectives on the show. (03:20–06:56)

"It's so interesting to be around people who just have not in any way acquiesced to the status quo... They think destabilizing that power is the way to freedom for people." – Van (03:52)

• Why Interview Mainstream Politicians?: Van discusses the importance of tough interviews with establishment figures, even when audiences push back about platforming them, arguing it equips listeners to interrogate power. Rachel expands on the idea, tying in how politicians benefit from venturing out of their bubbles (e.g., Ro Khanna on Hasan Piker). (04:58–09:00)

2. Systems, Individuality & Social Determinism

The hosts debate predictability in human behavior vs. individuality, inspired by a dinner conversation with a "data guy" (machine learning/AI), who claimed people are highly predictable. Van pushes back hard on this, emphasizing systemic control vs. innate uniqueness. (11:55–16:19)

"When you math people and they become a problem to solve rather than a soul or an individual to contend with... they become predictable." – Van (15:10)

3. LeBron James, Memphis & Cultural Optics

• LeBron's Viral Comments: Triggered by LeBron and Draymond Green's offhand suggestions to move the Grizzlies out of Memphis due to poor city amenities, the hosts explore the economic and cultural implications. (23:33–32:40)
• Backlash and Responsibility: Van underscores how such remarks—especially from someone like LeBron, with so much influence and a longstanding role as a "caretaker" figure for Black communities—can be flippant and irresponsible given their economic impact. (28:18–34:08)
• Memphis’ Undervalued Status: The conversation turns to how Memphis is chronically underrated in Black culture relative to cities like Detroit, New Orleans, or D.C., despite its critical role in music, civil rights, and American history. (36:20–41:50)

"Memphis is such an underrated city. I think people know that Memphis is a black city, but people don't give Memphis its due." – Van (36:20)

4. U.S.-Iran Tension, Trump’s Rhetoric, and Podcast Influence

• Escalation & Nuclear Threats: The hosts break down Trump's unhinged, profane Truth Social post threatening Iran and the Strait of Hormuz. Rachel interprets it as panicked and dangerous, while Van provides sobering historical context on U.S. war crimes and the catastrophic impact of infrastructure bombing. (42:34–50:13)

"A UN report estimated that 170,000 Iraqi children under five would die from the aftermath of the United States hitting Iraqi civilian infrastructure." – Van (47:44)

• Media Reaction: Joe Rogan & Theo Von: They analyze how major podcasters respond to war, exposing both the reach and the contradictions of "podcast bros" like Rogan and Theo Von. Theo voices confusion and regret for supporting Trump, while Rogan remains cagey, critical of elites but never fully denouncing MAGA or Israeli actions. (61:25–73:17)

"Part of the charm of Theo Vaughn is watching him tread water in deep water... You have to be white to do that." – Van (67:59)

• White Populism & Self-Reflection: The pair criticize the tendency of top podcasters to only admit mistakes when their audience demands it, noting the performative sincerity and market-based incentives for critique in new media. (65:34–79:12)

"They wanted to believe that Trump wasn’t the system, that he was actually a shock to the system. Now here you are a year in, and my God, like Donald Trump is trying to tell you, he's going, hey, fuck you..." – Van (79:13)

• Repeated Mistakes: Rachel voices frustration at the lack of accountability: mere acknowledgment of error isn't enough unless it extends to everyone complicit—not just Trump. (81:32–83:39)

5. Edward Blum’s Legal Crusade Against Civil Rights

• Bloom Sues CBC Foundation: The hosts address another lawsuit by Edward Blum targeting Black-focused scholarships—using the 1866 Civil Rights Act to claim discrimination. (84:19–98:09)
• Systemic Oppression: Van and Rachel deliver an impassioned, historical explanation of how every Black advancement—land, schooling, business, voting—has been systematically thwarted by white America, and Blum is the modern face of that legacy. (87:45–96:40)

"He is emblematic of something that is under discussed but is pervasive in American culture. Every single thing that America has asked black people to do, to be full citizen... has been blocked." – Van (87:45)

• Rachel: Points to the deep historical irony – laws created to protect Black rights are now used to limit them. (93:13–96:40)
• Voting Rights: Van references Blum’s role in gutting Section 5 of the Voting Rights Act, enabling voter suppression and gerrymandering. (96:44–98:09)

6. Kanye West, Wireless Festival Fallout, and Celebrity Accountability

• Kanye’s UK Festival Setback: Kanye faces major sponsor drops (Pepsi, Paypal, etc.) from the Wireless Festival in the UK due to political pressure over his antisemitic remarks—despite sold-out shows and new album success. (102:04–126:16)
• Apology & Public Trust: Rachel questions the sincerity and timing of Kanye's apology, arguing that true rehabilitation requires more than words; Van doubts fans care, but agrees corporations have a different calculus. (107:27–117:35)
• Backlash or Martyrdom?: Van speculates this controversy could even benefit Kanye’s brand among loyal fans, while alienating corporate sponsors. (124:55–126:43)
• Live Nation’s Role: Despite sponsor pullouts, Live Nation continues its business with Kanye—underscoring the limits of cancellation if ticket demand remains high. (126:43–126:43)

7. Trick Daddy at the AKA Conference – Culture, Boundaries, and Viral Drama

• Performance Debate: Trick Daddy’s unfiltered set at an AKA sorority event offends many, leading to an on-stage shutdown. Trick Daddy pushes back on attempts to control his setlist. (127:14–132:39)
• Generational Humor: Rachel pokes fun at the cultural divide, noting that Deltas would “never” hire such an act, while Van sees Trick’s vulgarity as expected (though possibly aggravated by being made to wait). The segment ends in playful banter about older rap, sorority pride, and women’s sexual agency. (133:14–140:24)

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

LeBron and Black Community Responsibility

• "I think that people expect LeBron James to be a caretaker of black people and black culture because he has been. He’s positioned himself that way… With that, this was a little flippant."
  — Van (32:00)

On Predictability and Systems

• "They are trying to figure out how to exist within a system that is created to make them into a consumer. And so you can predict them because you’re controlling them." — Van (13:09)

On Blum’s Anti-Civil Rights Crusade

• "You cannot do it for yourself. Because if you build your own power base... you will threaten us. And we can’t have that.” — Van (87:45)
• "It is for reasons like this. It's really more than half as it's like we have to work even harder than twice of that. And for people like Ed Blum is the reason for that." — Rachel (93:13)

On Podcast Bros and Turning Against Trump

• "Part of the charm of Theo Vaughn is watching him tread water in deep water. That's part of the charm…You have to be white to do that." – Van (67:59)
• "They wanted to believe that Trump wasn’t the system, that he was actually a shock to the system. Now here you are a year in, and my God...Trump is going, hey, fuck you." – Van (79:13)

Trick Daddy’s Wild Performance

• "Did you think he was gonna come out there and be like, trick loves the kids? All his music is vulgar like this. Vulgar." — Rachel (129:45)
• "You can't give me no playlist. This ain't your wedding. Wrong with you? I ain't no shorty, I ain't no boy." — Trick Daddy (128:03)

---

Important Timestamps

• Cultural/Personal Catch-up: 00:19–03:20
• Community Activism & Interrogating Power: 03:20–09:00
• Predictability & Systems vs. Individuality: 11:55–16:19
• LeBron & Memphis, Black City Narratives: 23:33–41:50
• Iran Crisis, Trump’s Rhetoric, Podcast Bros: 42:34–83:52
• Edward Blum & Civil Rights Law: 84:19–99:00
• Kanye Wireless Festival, Cancel Culture: 102:04–126:43
• Trick Daddy vs. AKAs: 127:14–140:24

---

Final Thoughts

This episode threads together the personal, political, and cultural, centering Black voices in conversation about community power, accountability, and representation. Van and Rachel’s candor—whether defending Memphis, critiquing the "cult of sincerity" in podcasting, or skewering Trick Daddy’s infamous appearance—makes for a rich, provocative listen and a must-read summary for anyone seeking to understand the intersections of race, media, and power in America.

---

For more hot takes and community debate, tune in twice a week with Van & Rachel.

Transcript

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

Foreign.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

Yo, yo, yo. Thought warriors. What is up? Higher learning is on.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

Is Ivan Lathan Jr. And it's me, Rachel Lynn. Lindsay.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

Rachel, what'd you do this weekend? We haven't done this in a while.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

Actually. Pretty chill. Oh, oh, you're gonna be so proud of me. Okay, first off, it was pretty chill cause I realized haven't done my taxes.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

You haven't done taxes yet, have you?

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

There's somebody that does it, somebody does them. But like I need to do all the expense stuff. I have a system. But you can do it pretty quickly. But I had to take time for that. So very chill. Like went to a brunch with my girlfriend and her daughter, sat by the pool, did some taxes. And then I went to go see Project Hail Mary.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

Very special.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

Have you seen it? Of course. You have.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

Yeah. What'd you think, Van?

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

I cried about four times.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

Fantastic, right? I mean like, you love Rocky.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

Like bald.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

Yeah.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

Like not one tear. I mean, I really. Cause I'm one of those people. I tell you when I do watch the movie, I get fully. I fully immerse myself in the movie. I am there, I am with them. I know these people. I feel what they feel. The way I connected to Rocky.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

You like Rocky? Oh my God, he's nice.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

Oh, it was beautiful. It wasn't what I was expecting. I wasn't expecting the humor part of it, the heart. I didn't read the book. I don't know if you read the book, but. But yeah, I just. I don't know. I just thought it was gonna be long and boring and I could not be further from the truth. I gotta start seeing more movies.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

Well, I mean, that one, that was so good.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

But I wasn't expecting that I could get emotional now.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

It's good.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

It was really good.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

It's a good movie. Good movie. It's a fantastic situation. If you guys have not seen it yet, I saw the drama. We all went to see the drama.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

Oh, thought about it.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

Tommy Kaliga, KJ. KJ's lady. We all went and saw the drama. Fantastic. Excellent.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

You think I'll like it?

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

I think you'll love it.

[Sponsor/Advertisement Voice]

This episode is brought to you by Spectrum Business. Fast, reliable Internet means everything for your business. And even this podcast that that's why I trust Spectrum business. They keep companies of all sizes connected with Internet. Advanced Wi Fi, phone, TV, mobile services +24.7 US based support. Millions of business owners already trust Spectrum business. So visit spectrum.combusiness to learn more restrictions apply. Services not available in all areas. This Episode is brought to you by Viori. Look, I'm not a big let's hype up workout clothes guy, but Vuori, I gotta say, total game changer. Been wearing a lot. If you see me power walking around Los Angeles, probably going to see me wearing some Vuori Sunday performance joggers that they have. It's made with four way performance stretch fabric, one of the most comfortable things you own. You will wear them everywhere, I promise. All you have to do is go to vuori.com Simmons and you get 20% off your first purchase with Vuori. V U-O-R-I.com Simmons. Enjoy. Free shipping on all US orders over $75 plus free returns. Exclusions apply. Visit the website for full terms and conditions.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

Oh, and then I have to say Saturday, two interesting things happened to me. Saturday, Saturday I went to the. Oh, yeah, Butchwear and Melina Abdullah's event that they had at Cal State Los Angeles. Vic Mensa was there. Lots of people were there. We all consciously. Consciously was fantastic. He did a fantastic job. What a amazingly talented brother. Consciously is. So I saw Williams, Aja, Monet. A lot of people were there. They were asking where you were. They wanted to know where you were.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

I was doing my taxes. Like, honestly, I was doing my taxes.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

It's so interesting to be around people who just have not in any way acquiesced to the status quo. They still think with a mindset that is there to destabilize what they believe to be American power. And that's American power and the Republican Party. American power and the Democratic Party. They think destabilizing that power is the way to freedom for people. So much love in the room, too.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

When you're around that. Right. Cause you're like, it's so interesting to be around those people. I would imagine it would be refreshing. Do you feel energized when you leave something like that? Do you feel hopeful?

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

Yeah. So I feel two things. Number one, I feel the need to. This is gonna sound weird. I feel the need to inject some cynicism into it.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

Okay, well, that sounds like.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

Well, no. And I'll tell you why, though. I'll tell you why. It's because, for example, there was a question that was asked to me directly about why we would have Gavin Newsom on.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

Really?

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

Yeah, for sure. But this is what I like. You know, why you would have Gavin Newsom on. Why would you have Gavin Newsom on? Why do we have to continuously sort of acquiesce to conversations with people who don't seem like they're serious about change and upliftment of people. Why do we have to have Gavin Newsom on? And that is where you make the case for interrogating power. That's where you make the case with people who their purity is their strength, about the fact that what we have to do here and what other people have to do is have conversations with people who seek power, but have them in a way that actually tries to interrogate their reasons for doing so, and that you have to do that and to let them know that they don't have to do it, but that we have to do it. And everybody has different jobs. You have Gavin on, you have Dr. Ware on, and then you let people kind of decide, giving them the intellectual sort of juice, which side of that aisle they kind of lean towards, you know?

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

Well, you're so right. And interesting that someone would say that. I mean, I guess I understand the sentiment, but at the same time, I think something that we've talked about is, you know, when you have someone on like that, and I feel like we've kind of changed up the way we've had these conversations. I think you have to be equipped to have those type of conversations, which is why I think moments of it went viral. And at the same time, you know, Ro Khanna's kind of going viral, I guess, or just like all over social media right now for being asked about going on Hasan Piker's streaming platform. And he gave a very good response about why it is necessary to go on those platforms. You can't stay in the bubble and how if you continue to do that, it's going to continue to hurt the Democratic Party. So I think it is so necessary to, to your point, have these conversations with people that you may or may not agree with, because then what are we doing?

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

I went on Hasan Piker's stream again. No, I would, though. And Hasan Piker will be on Higher Learning at some point. If Rachel is with it, we will have Hasan Piker on. I think conversations like that, you go on and talk to Charlie Kirk or you go on to talk to any podcast bros. You go on and talk to Hasan Piker. It's not where you go to talk. It's what you say when you're there. Okay. If people are having conversations about rhetoric that is being spewed by different streamers and whether or not their platforms do anything more than to sort of push lies and all of that stuff, that's fine. Have that conversation. But we have to talk and we have to Be in. I didn't mind the question. I thought the question. I'm glad that she asked. Yeah, I didn't mind the question at all. I think that it's important to go to places like that and go. What I try to do on this podcast, at least me personally, is like, strip me of purity. Like, I have to be able to be wrong. We'll talk about being wrong later. I don't want to be obsessed with the ability to be wrong, but I have to be able to sometimes incite the audience. You have to see people on this podcast sometimes that you cringe when you see them. It has to happen. Like, it just. Those conversations have got to happen because I think that, like I said before, makes Dr. Ware or someone else that you might. There are people on here that aren't as far to the left as Dr. Ware is and that find comfort and safety in the democratic establishment. And if that is you, that is fine. But even if you do find comfort and safety in the democratic establishment, even if you do ask questions about how things would be different if Kamala Harris was president right now, all of that's fine. The question is, are you going to places and having conversations where you're getting the tools to understand and to contextualize what these politicians are supposed to be doing for you? And that's why you have conversations. I wish we had conversations even across the aisle. Now, some of those are useless right now because you're not talking in good faith. You're talking to a cult member.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

Yeah, but sometimes you talk to a cult member. But I still. I still appreciate those conversations. I think they're necessary, especially living in a place like la. I was talking to friends about that recently. It's like being from the South. I can be pulled out of the bubble and see a different perspective because of where I'm from. Whereas people who maybe have always grown up in a New York or in la, it's really hard for them to conceptualize sometimes that most of the country in most places don't think like this.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

I mean, it's just, you know, most of the country is not thinking about this stuff in a way at all,

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

really, at all, sadly.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

I mean, look, this is why you do what you do and you try to do your best. But all of. There was one young lady out there that said she's completely off social media. She won't use social media because of what social media represents. She's a student. She had a brilliant energy and all that. I'm talking to her and I'm like, that's cool. Stay that way. It is my wish and my goal, probably somewhat arrogantly, to be able to speak through people and to people that allows them to maintain their purity, since mine is long, long gone. Mine is long, long gone. But I love it when people take stances and they go, this is bad. This is wrong. I won't do this. And I would hope to be able to speak with them so I could do some things since I'm already dirtied up that they don't have to do.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

When do you think you lost your purity?

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

Tmz, probably tmz, but really before then. Like, I'm incapable of purity because my background is too impure. So, like, I've had to in my life. First of all, I don't think purity is. I don't want to use purity as a pejorative to describe the people in that room, because they're not seeking purity. They're seeking justice.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

Well, they're not jaded. Maybe jaded may be the word you want to use for yourself.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

Well, what. I mean, yeah, jaded, cynical, whatever. I don't want to say that they are pure, and then by that means that they're irrational to some degree, they're seeking justice, and they're uncompromising about the way that they see justice. Make sure that that is it. But for me, I'm just like, you know, I've just. I've made so many. I've made so many moral. Moral equivocations my entire life. And some of them were made, like, without somewhere. Some of them were indoctrinated. Some of them I didn't really think about. Right. And some of them come from deep emotional connections to people who are all fucked up. So now I kind of. We could talk about this as we've done this before. I kind of don't see the person. I kind of see the thing. And so when you do that, there's just gonna be rooms that I'm in and people that I'm around that people are gonna be like. Like, why would you be there? It's. Cause, like, I almost see people now. I'm not. I don't use this as a. I see people as victims of circumstance. I'll give you an example of something. So I went to a dinner a couple of weeks ago, and it was a really interesting dinner.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

Okay?

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

And at this dinner, there was a data guy and this data guy. This was a really interesting dinner I was at. At this dinner, there was a data guy and this data guy was talking about the fact that, like, they've perfected being able to predict people. You look at different groups of people, different cohorts of people.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

Like, through data, or he personally can

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

do it through data.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

Okay, okay.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

Through data.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

Okay.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

You can predict what people are going to do.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

Okay.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

Like, you can look at this. He's you. He was very excited about it. Very smart guy, was talking all. I mean, this is a. This was a clash of different ways of thinking. He was a poly market sort of AI, like, digital soul type of person. And I'm the other side of that. Right. So he's talking, he's saying all this stuff. Like, we look at all this stuff and people are just very predictable. We're not as individual as you think.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

I agree with that in some ways.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

You say what?

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

Yeah, I agree with that in some ways.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

It's completely false.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

Oh, I'm not saying we can predict, but I think that people, A lot of people are sheep. And I do think people are very predictable. But keep going. Sorry, sorry, sorry. Keep going.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

If people are predictable, there's a reason why. So If I took 12. Let's say I'm baking cookies. If I took 12 different dollops of cookie dough and put them systematically on a baking sheet and then put them into the oven, what's gonna come out? 12 cookies. 12 different cookies, but 12 cookies. Okay, 12 cookies are gonna come out. And if I use a system to individually place those cookies by size, place them a specific distance apart, put them into the oven for a specific time, the system will produce 12 cookies. And I can predict with probably great effect and great certainty the size of the cookies, how far they're gonna be apart, the number of cookies, all of that. Because the system that I use to put the cookies in the oven created the outcome. That is why you can. You can predict people. You can predict people because you are running people through a system that then divides people along racial and socioeconomic lines, gives people the same choice matrix. So if you have three choices, it's easier to predict the choices. Like, people are not, as they're born on this earth, searching for their personal betterment. They're not searching for their artistic zenith. They're not searching for any of that stuff, their spiritual walk. They're not. They are trying to figure out how to exist within a system that is created to make them into a consumer. And so you can predict them because you're controlling them. Now, if you went to a different place where you didn't understand the system where you didn't. I mean, all of this stuff is behavioral economics, where you didn't understand the people or where the people could be left to their own individualistic nature, then that would be more difficult. The guy at the table, he said, like, we're all the same. We're not all the same, we're all different. I looked at him and I said, a trillion years from now, no one like you will have ever existed. You are the only you that's ever existed and the only you that will ever exist. How could you be the same as everything else? But when you math people and they become a problem to solve rather than a soul or an individual to contend with and share with, then, yeah, they become predictable.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

Yeah.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

And so like that, me and him had a good conversation. We weren't at loggerheads about anything, but we had a good conversation. But that's what I see when I see people. When I see all the people that I know had something more about them or they were different. I see them as being both victims of a system, but products of it as well.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

Yeah, no, no, no. I mean, I agree with that. I guess I was saying, of course we're all uniquely made and within our souls are different, but behavior wise, that's what I mean, like sheep.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

That.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

I think people can be very predictable.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

Well, yeah, depending on shepherd. Look, you know what? Like, you know what else? You know what else happened? One of my old teachers contacted me.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

What grade?

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

11th grade.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

Do you remember? Of course you remember the teacher. You remember first, last name, what they. Like, you remember everything. Wow.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

You know what? This teacher contacted me over what she saw, what I said about McKinley High. No, not about McKinley High. She saw what I said about the gentleman that had Tourette's at the BAFTAs. She's been looking for me ever since she saw the clip.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

So why did she take it personal in some kind of way?

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

She thought that.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

Or do you not wanna share?

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

No, we can share. It was a funny conversation. First of all, my long lost sister could find me on Reddit, but for some reason, it took this teacher three weeks to a month, two months, whatever, to find me.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

How old is she?

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

She's older.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

Okay.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

Probably late 30s or 40s. In the 90s. So like she's in her 60s now, 50s or whatever.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

She probably had to create an account.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

The whole nine. Took her a long time. She was a younger teacher, but she took her a long time to find me. You know what she told me?

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

What?

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

She thought I had Tourette's.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

What was her subject?

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

English.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

Okay.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

Cause she's like, man, you know, it was just so funny to watch that. She's like, it's so great to see everything that you're doing and all that. But she was like, it was so funny to watch that because I legitimately thought that there was something.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

I thought you had that in 11th grade.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

In 11th grade.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

I mean, I will say if you acted like you do in text messages at times, I've told the story about the time that I first texted you and how you started talking to me about, like, gang stuff. Like, you shout out random words that have no bearing on the conversation. They aren't relevant. Donnie can back me up on this. And we've just learned to just, like, ignore it.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

That never happens. Donnie, does that happen? Do I just shout out random stuff? It does, yes.

[Donnie]

Btgs.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

I still don't know what.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

We still don't know what that is. We still don't know what BTGs are. You still haven't told us. Hi, Bernard.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

You all right, nigga?

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

Yeah.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

You were what?

[Donnie]

I had to go get my passport.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

Oh, yeah. Oh, that's a good reason. Bernard's late, but that's because he had to go get his passport. That's my good reason.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

Shout out to Bernard. Bernard has to say, Bernard, how far do you have, like, how many heights?

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

Two hours.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

Two hours to get here.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

Every podcast where you live. Burling Heights. What the is that? That's like, buy a Disneyland Anaheim.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

I just want to say what people talk about.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

Oh, that. But like, Disneyland. You driving out here from the master.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

No, he's taking public transportation. This is what I'm saying. When people talk about Gen Z. See, like, when we had this conversation, people talk about Gen Z. People talk about Gen Z and how. And like, the stereotype. The stereotype. Bernard takes the bus over two hours, multiple buses to over two hours to come here. I live 30 minutes, less than 30 minutes away, and he gets here before me. Every podcast. That is dedication.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

Bernard, look at me. We're get you a car. Oh, let's get it. I'm always down for that. I'm always happy for that. I'm not around. I'm happy. Like, we're like, it's not going to be nothing nice to give me the money. Like, we're. Look at me, look at me. I'm serious. We're going to get you a car. All right. Bet, bet, bet. I'm 100%. Nah, we gonna make it at least a little bit easier for you to get up here. So go look at what you could get for, like, 1100 no, I'm just joking. But like. But like,

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

that's for you.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

Okay, well, Rachel didn't bring you.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

No, no, sorry. Well, I will take that, but that's the camera I bought you. I mean, brought you.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

But that. But, but, but seriously, talk to me like two hours. I. I like the dedication, but no, like, amazing. It's. It

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

shows your workout.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

So. Yes. I don't btgs. I'm not gonna tell you guys what btgs.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

Who knows what it means?

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

I know what it means.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

I'm gonna ask Nick.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

Nick doesn't know btgs.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

Kalika.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

No. No one knows except for me. Btgs. No one knows. Okay.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

Cause, like, I get. Sometimes when you blurt stuff out, I'm like, should I know this? I get like. I get nervous sometimes. Dottie. Dottie, can test testify to this. Donnie, don't. I text you on the side sometimes and be like, what does he mean when he says this?

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

I'm telling you. Yeah.

[Donnie]

And that's the case with btgs. I questioned myself. What a sound like, I must be out of touch. I'm old. I don't know what he's talking about.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

I'm older than you. It was just so funny that day when I put that in the text and you went, what is btgs? It's funny. But she hit me up and she reminded me of something that I said. I'm gonna be honest with you. I did not know she was in the class.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

Okay.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

Okay. Cause she was a little late to class for whatever had happened. And I was in the class and I was saying stuff, and I said something. She reminded me. She was like. It was the funniest, most vulgar thing that she ever heard. And she did have to kick me out of class. I was kicked out of class a couple of different times. Not by her, but just overall. Because sometimes people, teachers would lean into the stuff that I would do, and sometimes I would just, like, completely destabilize the class where they would be like, van, get out.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

And this was. You were a minority, right?

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

What you mean in McKinley. Well, so.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

Because you were in the gifted program.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

I was a minority in the gifted classes. But being black at McKinley was not a minority. Okay, I'm aware McKinley's a black ass white school in Louisiana, but what'd you say? I said I was rapping. And I said, I'm a freaky ass nigga who loves.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

Boy, give him a beat.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

Okay.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

You got the beat?

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

Yeah.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

Can you do a beat, Bernard?

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

I'm a freaky ass nigga who loves to fuck I take my dick out your mouth and put it in your butt.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

That was it.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

That's it. She heard that. And I remember I turned around. Everybody is laughing, right? So everybody is laughing. Like, I'm saying all kinds of different shit. I'm saying different shit about people in the class. But she's not in the class. Everybody's laughing. I remember seeing her there, and she went, van, get out.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

That's solidified before.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

She's like, get out. She's like, you don't even have to go to the office. This happened a couple of times. She's like, you don't even have to go to the office. Just get out. Don't come back.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

She said the only way he could say that is if it was uncontrolled. That's what she must. She thought.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

But she said I would say stuff all the time.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

Are you. Why are you. You do that?

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

I know, but not because of Tourette's. Just because of.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

No, I know. But if somebody doesn't know you well, like, they're confused, and then they try to reason it. And that was her reason. That's funny.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

But she told me she was very proud of me, the things that she had seen and all of that. And she doesn't live in Baton Rouge anymore. She lives in Tennessee. And she's like, yeah, lives in Tennessee. Lives in Tennessee. Lives in Tennessee.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

Tennessee.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

Pleasantries are over. Donnie, first subject.

[Donnie]

Okay, let's start with Tennessee. Memphis, specifically. They have been facing scrutiny over the condition of hotels after this comment from Draymond Green went viral a little while ago. Let's hear from Draymond.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

As opposed to going Memphis more than once and just do Memphis, Just do everybody a favor and move that team to Nashville. There's no great hotels in Memphis. I love the people of Memphis. They are incredible. Shout out to the people of Memphis. I love them. But just from an NBA standpoint, man, like, there's not a sauna or a hot tub in sight. Nowhere. Not at the gym, not at a spa, not at a hotel. Nothing. Draymond. There's a whole Memphis mashup of people shitting on Memphis. NBA players shitting on Memphis, right? They don't like Memphis. It's clear. But it didn't really come to a head until LeBron James said this. At 41 years old. You think I want to do that on a random ass Thursday? I'm not, like, the first guy I even talk about in the NBA. Like, we all, like. You guys have to move. Let's go over to Nashville. You Got the. You got Vanderbilt over there. You got the nascar. You got a stadium. Don't they got a hockey team, too? Yeah, Predators. Predators. Like, they got everything. Doesn't look like LeBron's gonna be on

[Guest or Additional Commentator]

the Grizzlies anytime soon, so.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

Great Grizzly fans out there. Yeah. They know their only Chance was in 2003 if they would have won the lottery, and I might have pulled a Eli Manning and not showed up. Okay, so there's a lot of talk. Stephen A. Smith says bad. Look, you're on the court golf course with a bunch of white boys. You're talking shit about Memphis. A lot of people had a problem with not only. Look, obviously the NBA players don't like Memphis.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

Yes.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

And I think that's not just, like, singular to LeBron, but there was a lot of talk about whether or not he should be talking about Memphis like this.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

Well, I mean, he was asked about it, like, post game, and the reporter who asked him said, well, a lot of people are saying, like, Memphis is a black city. You talked about that. I guess. He also mentioned Milwaukee.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

Well, he said, also a black city,

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

too, which, I mean, I lived there for three years. Like, it's not the most exciting place to walk at times.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

You don't like it.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

I mean, I don't live there.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

It's true.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

It's more of, like, a summer city, but they have great festivals and stuff like that. But. And they've done a lot. I live there. I haven't lived there in, like, 15 years. They've done a lot with the city since then, but I don't think that was this big of a deal. I just really didn't think from that. I understand the optics of, you know, like, Stephen A. Said that, and then Matt Barnes responded and was like, you really are one to talk.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

Now it's Matt Barnes versus Stephen A. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

Like, he was like, you really want to talk when it comes to that, but I get the optics of hearing it and maybe like, oh, for a second, like, if you don't know basketball, then maybe you think he's being critical of the city itself. But I don't think what he said was that controversial, especially when he's not the only person who said it and think, Memphis, the Memphis Grizzlies should leave. No, I would hate to see that happen to the city of Memphis. I don't think. You know, if you're expanding, then put a different team in Nashville. What is it? Vegas, Seattle they're talking about, but, like, put a different team in Nashville I don't think they should leave Memphis. Maybe Memphis could step it up a bit. I mean, these NBA players are used to staying in top notch hotels when they go to these cities. Five star, the works, all of that. I was looking up hotels in Memphis. I'm familiar with Milwaukee, so I know what's up there. But like, I was looking up hotels in Memphis and it's like, yeah, like, they don't have five star hotels. So I get you're used to a certain standard and you don't get that. And if you've been in the league as long as LeBron, he's like, I'm 41, I don't wanna stay at this hotel. I understand the sentiment, but to blow it out of proportion and be like, oh, you know, this is saying something particular towards black people, or to make this a LeBron thing when he's not the first one or the only one to say it. To me, it's just like, what if? Is this just an excuse to hate on LeBron? And I'm not one who's like a LeBron apologist by any means, but this. I'm like, guys, come on.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

Yeah, come on. It kind of is. It kind of is.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

It's an excuse. Yeah.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

But let's try to put something in context. What? All right, so. Well, two things. Number one, LeBron James said that he doesn't like Memphis. Cool. Then he said, like you mentioned that the team should move.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

Yeah, I don't agree with that.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

Okay, so him saying that the team should move. All right, so the grizzlies bring about $223 million in total economic impact to Memphis and provide around 1500 jobs.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

It's the only professional team there. Correct.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

Right. Okay, think about that. The Grizzlies. The grizzlies provide around $223 million in economic impact per year to Memphis. LeBron James himself made $133 million last year. So there's near parity in the money that LeBron James makes for himself and the economic impact that that city has, that that team has on that city. There's near parity there. Not. I mean, you know, we talk about almost 100 million, but there's like, it's not too far off. So.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

And it's a saying that you can actually make that comparison.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

Right, so him standing on a golf course and saying that is kind of not kind of. Hold on. What the fuck am I doing? Like, saying that they should move the team is irresponsible. Him saying that they should move the Team is actually irresponsible. Like him. Everybody not want to stay at hotels. They say Memphis is dangerous. All of that stuff like that. Him saying that is actually irresponsible because that would affect a lot of people who don't make $133 million a year. Now, even when you say that, you got to put it into context of who LeBron James is. When you see what LeBron James has done in the community and all of that stuff, LeBron James is not normally a person that says things flippantly about black culture or black people or a city that is as black as Memphis without thinking. So I think a lot of people

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

caught off guard by that, great points. Fair. I don't think they should leave the city. I guess for me, I thought, do I really think that LeBron's statement has that much impact to where that would actually happen? Because LeBron, a person who, any day, any. Like every year, it's like, are you gonna be in the league? Are you not? Could have that much impact on that, on getting that to actually happen. No, but again, I get the sentiment of it. You're right. It's like Memphis should. The Grizzlies should stay in that city. And maybe, maybe this will have the opposite effect. Maybe this will bring even more attention to this, to, like, what the city of Memphis may need. Maybe people will say, like, hey, I wanna invest here. I think the mayor called out LeBron, hey, why don't you look at possibly investing in the city and building it up? Or maybe investing in. Maybe a nice hotel chain will come through. So NBA players maybe don't have the same experience. I don't know. But maybe it could have the opposite effect. That's me being an optimist.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

Well, look, here's the deal. You know what else is not a great hotel city? We talked about this in the last podcast. Like Baton Rouge. Like, I go home to Baton Rouge.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

Where do you stay?

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

I get an Airbnb. So, you know, I don't like to crowd.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

Mama.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

Mmo house. Shout out to my beautiful mother, Mama Mo. I don't like to crowd the house, so I'll get an Airbnb. And the Airbnbs in Baton Rouge is very nice. And get Airbnbs. Sometimes you get them out there overlooking the river. You can get them in the middle. Let's see. Get them, like, off Highland, stuff like that. Get a nice Airbnb. You chilling. But there's not a lot of nice

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

hotels stay at the Watermark. When I went.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

Okay, well, I mean, that's the best you can do?

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

It was the best I could do, but I didn't have a problem with it. But I'm also not. I'm not expect. I'm not an NBA player.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

Right. But at the same time, you know, you staying at the High Eccentric there. You're not staying at the Hyatt Centric for like two or three weeks. You're staying at the High Eccentric four or five days. The shit is fucked up.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

Not even that long.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

Well, it depends on. You could be. But you could be playing like. Cause now what they do in the NBA is they play a couple of games in a row. So you play a team like a couple of nights in a row, almost like Major League Baseball. So there is a chance that you might be there three days, probably not four days, you're probably right. But like three days, you're staying at the Hyatt Centric. It is what it is. I know that these guys are used to nice hotels, but I think that people expect LeBron James to be a caretaker of black people and black culture because he has been. He's positioned himself that way. And that's the deal. And this, in that, with that, this was a little flippant. And it seemed like he didn't consider what his words could mean.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

Okay, you are correct. But in the same sense that LeBron James is someone who seems to not seems to does do things that promote the black community and has put his money and his time into the black and the black community. He is also very much so an elitist. So like him saying that about the hotel comment, it's like that is also to me very expected of him to expect a certain thing. He's 41. He doesn't want to stay at the Hyatt Centric. I think I just wasn't shocked. He's an elitist. He makes nine figures.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

It's not about being shocked unnecessarily. It's about the fact that why would people be surprised? Well, because I think that there are people. Well, number one, I talked about this Saturday. If LeBron James is somebody who wants to curry favor or be held as somebody who is a culture maker for black people, if he wants to be someone who's seen as somebody who has racial self esteem or racial self consciousness, then when his words are incongruent with that, people are gonna call it out. And they should. Because I think there's another realm of this, that where this is a learning experience for how we caretake. Right. It doesn't have to Be a big deal. But the people that are saying, hey, LeBron James is saying something that would be detrimental economically to the city of Dallas.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

That's fair.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

And he shouldn't do that because it's a black city. I think those people should be allowed to say that and actually have a point. I will say this, though. I did a lot of work on this, and I want people to actually go and investigate on their own how much an NBA team actually affects the economy of a city, because there's a lot of data that suggests that the cities do better economically when the team leaves.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

So let's. Okay, Seattle.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

Yeah. Like they looked at. They looked. Well, what happens is. So it. Like there have been independent economics who have looked at the impact of what happens in these cities, and it's not that. That that that economy that the team is taking up. It's not that it stops. It doesn't stop. People don't stop spending money because the Grizzlies or the Sonics are gone. They spend it different places. So they might spend the money that they were saving to go to the. That they were spending on the Grizzlies. They might spend it on a new barbecue restaurant that opens up, or they might spend it at a new nightclub, or they might spend it there. And the variety of things that they're spending money on. There are arguments that economists make that that actually helps the city more than the NBA team does.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

I think I could see that. I think it also depends how good your team is. Right. Because if Memphis was a team that's going to the playoffs every year, then that brings that. It's a longer time that they're playing. It brings a lot of outsiders to the city. It can increase, like, sales of jerseys or whatever, like paraphernalia when it comes to the city. Like, it's just. I think that it depends how good the team is.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

Well, they were looking at the Seattle SuperSonics, who were one of the most successful franchises in basketball in the late 80s and early 90s. And by the way, this is data driven. So what they're looking at, this is data.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

I just wonder if I don't have the data in front of me, but I just wonder if it's like a year by year, because they haven't been in Seattle since 2007, 2008. And are you looking at it in 2026?

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

Well, sure, of course. I don't know. But all of this stuff is math. Guys did this. And I'm not saying it's gospel. I'm just Saying it was interesting to read. But there's something else here before we get off this subject, and I don't wanna. I think this also has to do with how people overlook Memphis, period. I'm serious. Let me tell you what I mean. I think that Memphis is such an underrated city. I think people know that Memphis is a black city, but people don't give Memphis to me. It's due in so many other things. I don't think that LeBron would have said this even if it were true about Detroit, about D.C. or about New Orleans, because I think there would have been something reflexive in him that would have been like, no, you don't criticize those cities. Like, you don't talk shit about Detroit. Detroit. Everybody knows Detroit has had it hard as a city. It's rebounding nicely. But Detroit has such a robust reputation for blackness. D.C. has such a robust reputation for blackness. And not just blackness, but black culture, New Orleans. I think people are less apt to criticize cities like this because to me, of just the way Memphis is overlooked in terms of other black cities. The Rock and Roll hall of Fame should be in Memphis. Memphis is where rock and roll was really birthed to me. In the United States. It's in Cleveland, because that's where the first rock concert was held. But Memphis is where the Rock and Roll hall of Fame should be. Like crunk. What does crunk music come from to you? What city do you equate with crunk music?

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

Oakland.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

Crunk music.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

Where's. It's in California somewhere.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

No. Atlanta.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

Oh, my gosh. Do you know what I heard in my head? Wait, wait, wait. Do you know what I heard in my head? No. You know what I heard?

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

Hyphy.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

No. I was thinking crump.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

Crump. Oh, crumping.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

I was thinking crumping. That's why I was like. Wait, what do you mean? Somewhere I heard crumping. Sorry.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

Crump music is associated with Atlanta.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

Memphis invented crunk music. Like, Memphis invented it. Like Memphis from the civil rights movement with, like. Memphis is an essential, not just black American city, but an essential American city. And it is just not treated that way. The fact that Nashville has sort of usurped Memphis in terms of cultural significance over the past 15 or 20 years. Because I legitimately. And this might also be just because of Geno, because I met Gino, my homeboy. Geno from Memphis. I met Gino.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

Oh, yes.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

Yeah. Like so young into my life, I spent time in Memphis. We would go out to Memphis and I Don't think that Memphis is. Even when we talk about hip hop, I do not think that the contributions of Memphis are respected enough in all different areas of culture. So it kind of gets. They kind of get fucked over.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

You know why I've never been to Memphis? I thought I had. I thought I had. I was having this conversation with someone and I realized, oh, my gosh, like, I've never been to Memphis. And I think that might be the case for a lot of people. You mentioned Detroit, you mentioned D.C. you mentioned New Orleans. I've been to all those places. Some of them are like, as much as you people think about Detroit, you still have Motown there. You know, obviously the factories and stuff. And I think people have a lot of family there just because, like, the great migration and all of that. But, like, New Orleans is a city people still go to. Washington, D.C. is this place that people frequent these places with big black populations. But Memphis isn't. It's just like not a go to destination. People don't think, I got to get to Memphis. It's on my bucket list. And I think that is why some of the past, as you think Detroit

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

is on a lot of people's bucket list.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

It was on mine because I wanted to go to the Motown. I'm a big Motown. And so truly for that reason. And then just like a lot of. Obviously, Memphis has a lot of music roots, musical roots, too, that I like. But with Motown being there and just like the birthplace of all of that and just my obsession with the Jackson 5 and the Temptations, I just was like, I have to go to this place.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

And you don't think that, like, I mean, black people.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

That's me personally.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

Yeah, but you don't think that, like, Graceland, like, it takes up that for a lot of people.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

No, I think it does. But we're talking about black. We're talking about blackness.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

And so I don't know very many black people who have visited Motown. I've never been.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

I'm just saying why Detroit was on my list is what I'm saying. But I guess my point is that saying all that to say Memphis, I just don't think it hasn't garnered the same attention because I don't think people have the desire to go visit there, despite how relevant it is. I bet after the movie, the Beale street movie, that people may have gone there because it might have connected like the past with the present.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

I mean, you got Hustle and Flow.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

I'm saying, see, I don't even think Hustle and Flow, Memphis, it's crazy.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

This is my point.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

My point is. That's why I think it's forgotten.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

My point is that talking shit about other places with predominantly black populations that are the cradle of as much culture as Memphis, Tennessee is. I don't think people do it like, as they. They just take it a little bit more seriously in other places. I just think Memphis is crazy. Underrated.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

I agree with you, I guess. I think. I guess. Yeah. Despite. And other than the history of the music, I guess I'm thinking I only have thought of it before when I was thinking of like rappers and stuff coming up, you know, like three Six Mafia, Eight Ball and MJJ Ball.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

Mjg. Man, he's got so much stuff going on. Even like right now, I think Glorilla Glow. Rest in peace, Dolph. You know, like, it's just so much going on. Glow, Dolph. Like Gotti. Like just so much happening in La Pooh Shiesty, Memphis. Okay. The Pooh Shiesty. Inmate number 25151. All right. I can't understand why that would happen, how that would happen. Trump going crazy on social media again. Donnie, get into it. Yeah.

[Donnie]

Let's read Trump's Easter message to everybody. This was after he was celebrating the recovery of a lost airman in the mountains of Iran on Saturday night. He posted this to Truth Social. Tuesday will be power plant day and bridge day all wrapped in one in Iran. Open the fucking straight, you crazy bastards, or you'll be living in hell. Just watch. Praise be to Allah.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

So you still not on the dementia thing? You don't think something's happening?

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

Look, I think it's a combination of all of it. I just don't. I can't say. Oh, that's just dementia. That's. It's a lot, a lot of combining factors.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

We are in just an incredibly dangerous time. Incredibly dangerous time. I've seen speculation that this sort of Tuesday deadline is a threat to use nuclear weapons in Iran.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

Nuclear.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

Some people feel that way. We do not know what's going to happen here. Donald Trump is in such deep water and with someone who is as self absorbed as he is. What can we say that the President won't do that's true? Nothing. Almost. There's nothing. There's nothing. This, of course, could be a threat to, as we already talked about, to destroy civilian infrastructure in Iran, which would then climb us up the escalation ladder even more because of the way the Iranians might respond. You have a whole set of bizarre circumstances surrounding the rescue of these downed American airmen, which doesn't really seem like any type of an operation. Do you realize the hardware that was involved in this operation to go get these guys? That does not seem like an operation to go get a stranded American airman. It seems like they were doing something else with all of the stuff that they trotted out there and that they failed in doing it. And they are sort of decorating that failure around the fact that they got this guy back. It seems like they were trying to do something else. It seems like they were looking for something else. All this information is going to come out and there are places you can go. Drop site, news, the intercept, all different types of places you can go and read this. And I really want you guys to be dialed in on this because the Iranians do not seem to be backing

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

down because they have the upper hand. They have the upper hand right now. I mean, wow. Can you imagine waking up Sunday morning and you follow Trump and one of the reasons you follow him is because you believe. Because a lot of Christians like to say, well, he does this in line with the Bible. And can you imagine waking up to a profanity laced tweet that has threats of killing people, murder a sin, and then praising Allah at the end of it? It's wild. When I saw this, I didn't think of like dementia. I thought, oh, he is losing his marbles because he is in. He's panicking. This was. I looked at this as like a panic tweet he got for whatever information, whoever's feeding it to him, how he got it, whatever thought he thought he could do, he is realizing that nothing is absolutely working. And so he is going to truth Social and he is just completely unraveling. It's not even unhinged. He's unraveling because he knows that there really is two options here at this point. It's you either go out there and engage in some kind of long term war or you pull out, which is the worst thing. I was waiting for that. I was waiting for it. I was waiting for it.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

You the one going crazy.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

I was waiting for it. You either pull out because you realize that it's gonna be detrimental, the long term effects are just gonna be too great for not just you, but for Europe and for other people as well. You want other countries to get engaged, but other countries are like, you didn't consult us when you did this. And you know, like, they, they don't think that this was even a wise move. So some of these other countries that he wants help from. But I. All this has done because even though Trump, like, when we listen to him do his 19 minute speech and then he talks about destroying their naval power and destroying their air power, I don't even think Iran is that as much concerned with that as they are about keeping the regime that they have and their strategic weapons, which we are seeing them successfully execute right now in controlling the Strait of Hormuz like that. And it is creating. It is establishing them really as one of the powerful country. And even more so if Trump pulls out, if Trump pulls out of this and he has to back down because they are saying, hey, we, we control this and your country is gonna suffer and then this other western country is gonna suffer and all these other countries are gonna suffer because of that. They're establishing Iran at this point as a top powerful country.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

Okay? So, I mean, you're right. So Trump has set a deadline. It's the sixth as we record this podcast, and this deadline is to open the strait or he'll hit power facilities. You know, we talked about that. Some people are. There's a debate about whether or not that actually constitutes a war crime, hating civilian infrastructure. Some people will say that civilian infrastructure also has dual military capacity or use or whatever purposes, whatever. And so that it's actually not a war crime. It doesn't matter. The United States has hit civilian infrastructure in wars past in the modern era, the Gulf War in 1991, Serbia, 99 different conflicts, Sudan 1998, Iraq 2003, and possibly in Iran now. And all of these had catastrophic effects on different aspects of those countries. When we hit the electrical grid and the water treatment plants and sewer systems In Iraq in 91, water purification collapsed. Cholera and typhoid spread all around. A UN report estimated that 170,000 Iraqi children under five would die from the aftermath of the United States hitting Iraqi civilian infrastructure. In 91 children. Say that number again, 170,000. A UN report estimated that 170,000 Iraqi children under five would die from the aftermath of that. There was actually a baby formula factory that was hit. And the way that that was laundered to people was. Colin Powell went on TV and said that it was a biological weapons facility. He said it with certainty. So it's all kinds of ways we can go through all different types of. Yeah, so I'm saying it's like it's not as if the United States doesn't have a history of this incredible immiseration of people during wartime when they have to achieve goals and using Human suffering. To get to either a political answer for a United States president or to solve a geopolitical problem is something that the United States has done before. So I would not put that past us.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

And that's what's scary, because this tweet is a desperate tweet.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

Yes. I mean, like, all of this stuff is happening now. I mean, look, you know, it's interesting. The interesting thing about power projection is actually having to project it. One reason why you have military bases all over the world is because you let people know that within 15 or 20 minutes, we can be on your ass. Like, we can be where we need to be. And you build up this military muscularity with all of these goddamn missiles and all of these planes. And when we hear this weapon system costs $100 million, we go domestically. Oh, man, that's $100 million that could have been used on this or this. But sometimes adversaries hear this and they go, think about how much money the American military is spending money on these sophisticated weapon systems. We don't have anything that costs near about that much money, which means we don't want to fuck with them. All of that matters until you have to fight. And I'm talking about that on both sides. When you have to fight. Well, fuck it. I don't give a fuck. Everybody think about this. You've been in a situation where especially a lot of my fellows out there, you've been in this situation where you look at somebody and you go, that motherfucker is probably a problem, right? You know when you not thinking about that? When you have no choice but to fight him. When you have no choice but to fight, you might move around him if you can. If you pussy like that. You might move around him if you can, right? But when you have no choice but to get busy, the only thing you're thinking about is getting busy. And however bad it gets, is how bad it gets. And you gotta scratch. Fight Claw, kick him in the Achilles, hit him in the knee. Knee is ball. You gotta do whatever the fuck you have to do to let him know you are the wrong person to fuck with. And if you don't do that, he will continue to fuck with you and fuck over you until you do it. And if you the big dude, fuck it now. Now you gotta use them muscles now. You gotta now the shit that you did to the dude a couple of weeks ago, that don't matter no more. You gotta do it to me. And so, like, this is the type of situation United States finds itself in with Some very profound weaknesses rolled up in there. Manufacturing weaknesses. The weaknesses that we haven't been in this quite this type of conflict in this way, like in a while. There's a lot of stuff in there and they just bit off more that they could chew going around there and trying to adventurize around the motherfucking world. I'm gonna send you something real quick. I want you to send it to me. I'm gonna send you this, all right.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

A text.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

No, I'm sending you this via text. I want you to read this. I want you to read this. I want Big Rachel to read this. I'll tell you why. So I've been looking into different conflicts, right? Been watching all my different sites and stuff like that and whatever, reading up. But I also went back and I watched a movie and the movie is called Countdown. Don't look at your phone yet. The movie is called Countdown. The Looking Glass. This was a movie that came out in the 80s. Scott Glenn is in it. And it's kind of a docudrama. It's part. It's an interesting way to produce something. It's scripted, but it also has at one point in the movie they. Newt Gingrich comes into the movie. They use like real documentary style stuff to lay out what would happen when World War III was upon us. So actual movie came out in 1984. It's called Countdown the Looking Glass. Used to watch it when I was a kid. And it was just like this really scary film about what would happen, how we would get into World War iii. I just sent you something. Okay, read the synopsis. And I didn't remember this. Read the synopsis of Countdown. The Looking Glass, I sent you a screenshot.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

Is a Cold War docudrama that depicts a fictional nuclear war between the US and the Soviet Union told through the format of a live news broadcast. The crisis escalates from a terrorist bombing in Saudi Arabia Arabia, leading to a US military response and Soviet counter moves in the Strait of. I can't speak. Strait of Hormuz culminating in a nuclear exchange. Where did Strait of Hormuz. The film uses real news anchors and politicians to heighten realism, focusing on the buildup to the apocalypse with the Looking Glass referring to the Strategic Air Command's airborne command post.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

So I am saying that in a different political time, with a different set of. Of political circumstances, where the Soviets were the big bad wolf of the world and the United States of America was this shining bright hill of capitalism and freedom. There was this group of filmmakers that got together and wanted to put together a political and narrative justification for what would end in World War Three. And at the center of that was a bunch of things. Bunch of things that happened, right? Like there was a banking crisis that happens in the movie. There was a terrorist attack that happened in the movie. There was all of that stuff. You can replace that if you want with the 12 day war last year or with October 7th a couple of years ago. You can use all of that stuff and for your prologue. But when it came down to what was the central thing that escalated into World War Three between the United States and the Soviets, it was the straight up Hormuz.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

Yeah.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

All right.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

I mean, yeah.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

So I watched that and I was struck. I was like, whoa. I didn't even remember that because I know what that was at the time.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

Yeah. Who sent it? Oh, no, it wasn't either Iran or us. The 45 day kind of ceasefire.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

What are you talking about?

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

You didn't see that 45 day ceasefire that was sent? I think it's from the Egyptian negotiators.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

Look, all of the countries around here, they're trying to get.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

They're trying to get like. But this was just sent. Yes, Sunday, right? Sunday. And neither Iran nor the US has responded. But we did get this tweet.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

Well, I'll tell you this, and I'll have some people on to discuss this. Maybe Thursday we'll talk about it. But not a lot of people know. So what the Iranians want in terms of compensation and want to be compensated for war damages, which Donald Trump simply cannot do. I just don't see a world in which the United States government can. He can launder a lot of things. I mean, he's like his society, his cult, they're not gonna. It's not gonna. But like actually giving war compensation to the Iranians after. This was supposed to be a war for regime change. And you didn't get that this was supposed to be a war for. To little bro, the Iranians. And you're only like putting them through geopolitical puberty right now. You're like legitimately took a regime that was causing problems in their region, right? And now you're taking that regime. And they're all growed up now. They're causing problems in supermarkets and gas pumps all over the world. And they're emboldened, Right? So I don't see any world in which the demands of the Iranian regime can be met. I don't think the United States could do that and save face on an international scale. So Then the question is, are they serious about that? If they're serious about it, Iran, and they're not just posturing, then this is pretty intractable. Like, there's. I don't know what has to happen here other than Trump declaring victory, getting out. But then what happens to the straight? Like, what happens to the straight.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

Then they're in control of it all.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

Like, right? And because they know that the central way that they have influence on the world is to maintain control of the strait. Why would you ever give that up now? What has to happen? By the way, the Israelis mouse quiet. Like church mouse quiet. There's stuff that's happening. I see it. I see them, you know, celebrating being able to execute Palestinian prisoners. Whatever. I see. But like, on this, it seems like just.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

Yeah, there's going to be a new arrangement regarding that.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

We'll stay here one second with this. A little bit more before we jump off of this. Look at us. Look at us. Like the two most erudite geopolitical voices in the whole. Look at this, the three of us. Bernard. Bernard. Think about it, Bernard. Probably like a Kia, though. Bernard, don't try to ball on me.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

He's back to the car. He's back to the car.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

We're gonna look for this car. But don't try to ball on me, Bernard. Cause see, that's the type of shit that happened with you. It's like, I'm gonna go out there. I'm a very calm dude. I like. I like. The cheaper the better. Unless it's broken. Nah, we just, you know, you need something that's gonna run, but, like, we gonna figure this out. But don't. Don't ball out on me, bro. If you ball out on me, I'm gonna come back here and make you look crazy. Unless you let me. Unless you let me work for. Like, we can make a whole movie based off you family. Like a movie. Whatever you want to shoot, I'll shoot it. Whatever camera you want to use. And that'll be my payment for the car. I know. You know, I got people to do that, though.

[Guest or Additional Commentator]

But you could give me for free.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

Just take the dub, okay? We're gonna do all that anyway. Just take the dub. I can't. I can't. I'm not. My spirit won't allow you to take the bus. Two hours we'd have been gone up there, bro. I'll find somebody to give you a car. Honestly, you could have had the cross tour. Like, I would have kept it. I would have fixed it.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

You could have Never gotten here.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

What? Cruel. For no reason.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

You had to let it go. You had to let it go. You wore it to the. It was 2008. It was time. It was cruel. Cruel. It was time.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

Could have fixed it. I could have put some money into it. Bernard could have had it. Then Bernard would have been stuck out on the motherfucking five trying to get up to this bitch. All right, before we just move away from the whole Iran thing, let's hear Theo Vaughn and Joe Rogan talk about it. Donnie, can we. I don't think we're over there doing that for ourselves, though. Doesn't seem like it. Doesn't seem like it's in our best interest, you know? Why do you think. Why do you think? Then what? Well, first of all, there's a lot of people that donated to the Trump campaign that have significant influence over him. Yeah. That lobby for Israel. Right. And they're very beholden. What do you think is going to happen? You think we're going to be okay? I hope so. Of course. I don't know. Do you think about it? I'm confused. I can't believe we went to this war. I. When we started bombing Iran, I was like, this can't be true. And what about Lebanon? Now I know Israel's invaded Lebanon.

[Guest or Additional Commentator]

Yeah.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

Yeah. And it's like, just fucking stop. Like, what do you need? Well, they're trying to. Supposedly, they're trying to stop the terrorists. That's crazy, though.

[Sponsor/Advertisement Voice]

If you're the fucking terrorists,

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

you know? I'm saying, like, if you want to stop them, fucking stand in front of the fucking mirror. That's Theo Vaughn from this Weekend with Theo Vaughn on Joe Rogan podcast. Then I started listening to another episode of Joe Rogan's podcast after that.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

Who was on it?

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

It was Flint Dibble and the guy who did the show on Netflix called Ancient Apocalypse. It's about ancient civilizations. And Flint Dibble, who is an archaeologist, wanted to come and take this guy to task. It's four hours long.

[Sponsor/Advertisement Voice]

I'm.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

I'm almost halfway through it.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

Okay.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

I just. It's an archeology debate. That's like the type of shit that I'm making. So, like, that's when I'm. When I listen to Rogan, it's like. That's like an archaeology.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

Cause Rogan's out of it. It's really between these other two people.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

Well, Rogan, Surprise, surprise is kind of on the side. I think the guy's name is Graham something who did the Ancient Apocalypse show. You've Seen these shows before. Aliens are the ones who did the stuff that you niggas think that you did. How could you. How could blacks. How could indigenous people been able to do this and build this? No.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

Aliens.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

Aliens.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

Anybody but black. Yeah, but go ahead.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

Yeah, so I watched that and I thought, oh, this is kind of the stuff that I like from Rogan. You know, this is interesting to me. I like. So this conversation on one of the biggest podcast platforms in the entire world. The biggest platform in the history of podcasts. I mean, guys, we have a successful podcast, right? We have a successful podcast. And if our podcast would deem to be successful, then there's actually no word for what Rogan's podcast is.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

Yeah.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

Okay, so if, if we have a podcast with a, with a nice healthy audience and it's growing, it's very successful, climbing up the charts, the whole nine legitimately successful podcast. If that's the way you describe our podcast, then Rogan's podcast cannot be quantified. Right. Because you're talking about 100 million downloads a month or something like that. It's nuts. So to have this conversation in this way on this podcast is meaningful. But. But what I'm asking. Of course there's a buck.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

It's interesting you say you can't quantify it because in this episode with Theo Vaughn, they're talking about corporations moving out of California and they're like, Tesla moved in and out moved and they're naming all these things and Theo Vaughn goes, we moved. I mean, he's like, we're individuals. And Joe Go goes, no, we're more than that. I'm like, yeah, you are. He's like, we moved out. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You are bigger than that. Listen, we've had the conversation about the podcast bros and how they influenced a whole group of people in a movement and helped Trump get elected. Joe Rogan confused me a lot in this episode. And you know, like I skipped around, I listened to certain parts. But on one hand he talks about, he gives the history of Iran and regime change and how they wanted to nationalize oil. And he talks about how western countries interfered and how like they should have just left it alone and cuz the country looked a completely different way. And once they got involved, this is when all the things started happening. He talks about that. He's like, we should have known. And then he talks about how like Venezuela and how we do this to different countries. And so I'm like, okay. But then at the same time he still like, when Theo Vaughn starts talking about And I guess I'm jumping around a little bit. When Theo Von starts talking about Gaza and the genocide, he's still defending those things, like, along with Israel. Like, he can't completely get there and turn the page and see it. So this podcast actually had me confused. But what I did, at least Joe Rogan's point of view, but I did appreciate, you know, Theo Vaughn. And it felt like at times Joe Rogan was kind of like, all right, shh. You know, like, be. Be. Be quiet. Like, he. He says at one point to him, you need to. What kind of depressive state or depressive something. He calls. He's like, you need to just come over here with us. But you see Theo Vaughn just, like, working it out in. In real time of how, like, he's scared, how he's confused, how he's like, this isn't what we asked for. He's up. He's questioning what we're doing. And I think a lot of people are doing that. So it's. You know, I recognize what Theo Vaughan did for the 2024 election, but I appreciate him really expressing how he feels and his disappointment and how upset he is, and he continues to stand on that and not back down. Even with the things that Joe Rogan is saying in this podcast, this is.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

It still pisses me off, though.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

Of course it does.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

You know it does.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

It's like, what took you so long to wake up? What did he have to do for you to wake up?

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

Well, there's two reasons it pisses me off. One is, like, it's just so white and cavalier. It's just so cavalier. How are we supposed to know that the guy who took out Soleimani was gonna go into Iran? Like, the people that donated that they're talking about, who are Trump's donors, did they not know that they were Trump's donors? When they were stumping for Trump, did they not know that Trump had taken $300 million from Mary and Ellison and that the pro Israel lobby was. Did they not know that? Is this. Did they just figure that out? Did that just happen in the last two weeks? Was this, like, what. Like, what's the deal? It's just so cavalier, you know? Like, Trump lied to us. He said no more wars. Like, and we believed him, right? You believe the guy who said he didn't have sex with Stormy Daniels? Like, this guy is a paragon of honesty. So everything that he said, Donald Trump said that, you just. You took it. You didn't think too interrogate any of it. Both of you guys had the opportunity to. Both of you guys had the opportunity to ask questions, to interrogate power. As like I told the people at Cal State la and you didn't take

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

it cuz it didn't impact them.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

Well, not only cuz it didn't impact them because it directly benefited them. And now what directly benefits them is to be anti Trump. So what directly benefits them? What directly benefits them? Not. No, I will stand on this. It directly benefits, right now both Joe Rogan and Theo Vaughn to call out the administration. It directly benefits them.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

Why?

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

Because most people that even if it's not most, a sizable group of people that watch and listen to their podcast are gonna be like, hey, just to let you know, everything that you said is bullshit. Like the podcast bro situation, I think that I've probably said this before is different than being a politician. Being a politician and being Donald Trump a senator or whatever, whatever is bullshitting enough for enough time so that people can forget what you said, right? You get enough time, you say something and then there's all of this mechanism that happens. It has to go to the floor, you have to talk about it, you have to do. And then people throughout that time get to forget what you said because something else happens or you move on to something else. When you're a podcaster, that's difficult to do because you are talking to people three times a week for two or three hours and stories are happening right away and people want to know right away what you think. And they also just like our audience, they listen to you. And if you think that you are smart or if you think that you have something to say, your Reddit. One of the best things that the sludge Reddit community ever said was that when I was encouraging a Reddit, when I wanted them to have the Reddit, because all podcast communities have a thriving Reddit that I thought I was getting a fan club and what I was really getting was a Senate Oversight committee. And I loved that. I didn't like it then. But they are the proletariat that is supposed to check whomever is up here. I'm not saying that we are the elites, but they're supposed to be like, hey, we checking in with y' all every single week. Is what y' all saying in any way real? Is what does what y' all saying have any merit? And that's going to happen to them. And because that's happening to Theo and it's happening to Andrew and it's happening to Joe, what's happening is people are saying, you know, a lot of this shit that y' all told us is not coming true. So are you as smart as I thought you were? Not. Not only are you as smart as I thought you were, are you as sincere as I thought you were? Because podcasting is still kind of oriented around sincerity. Yeah, it's. It's still something that people want to be able to look at you and go, what you're saying is consistent with not only what you're doing, but what's. What's happening. Because if not, there's a smarter guy we can listen to. If not, there's a more honest guy that we can listen to. If not, there's a more connected guy or girl or whatever that we can listen to. If everything that you're saying is bullshit, then there's somebody out there and we're looking for that. And so to me, part of these people turning is this is market based. This is them understanding that they are unlike in these spots that aren't specifically political. They are unlike Trump, they're unlike Ben Shapiro, they're unlike Dave Rubin or Mark Levan or any of these people. Their audience isn't totally captured. It's made up of some semi regular people. And those semi regular people might have been as incurious as them to go and follow the MAGA movement without really doing any work on it, but they might not be incurious enough to continue following it if they're foreign wars, if gas is going up, if the Epstein files, which is such a part of the DNA of places like this, all of these guys, the Epstein thing is such a part of their DNA. It's like one of the building blocks of the message of the anti vax aliens created the motherfucking pyramids. There being a baphomet based cult of people that are preying on children that are elites. It's a part of their brand of populism and it erodes right in front of your face if you don't have the balls or at least the motivation to call out some of this stuff in real time. So some of this stuff is like you look at Theo and Theo seems to be in deep water at all times in any conversation, no matter whom he's talking to. And part of the charm of Theo Vaughn is watching him tread water in deep water. That's part of the charm, Part of the charm. Theo Vaughn gets to do something, and this is another thing like Theo Vaughn gets to do something decidedly white. And that is to be completely overmatched in a discussion and have people go, aw, that is just not something. If that's not something that you have to be a white man to be able to deal with that. Like, to be able to do that, to pull that one off, to be like Pat McAfee at, oh, bro. We're just, ha, ha, ha, ha, boom, boom, boom, boom, nothing. You gotta be white. You have to be white to do that.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

You do have to be white.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

So that's part of Theo's charm. That's part of what's going on here. So this is good. But it's still like, you know, I

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

don't listen to a lot of Joe Rogan at all. I find him extremely frustrating, difficult to watch because he's such a. Know it all, um, and dismissive from the parts that I've seen when people try to challenge him. And I. And this is what I saw in this interview, which is why I'm giving more to Theo. And I'm not quite sure that I believe Joe Rogan. This is why I was squinting when you were talking about it. He might call out the fact that the economy is bad. He was critical about the Epstein files, even though I feel like he's been kind of quiet. He has been against a war. Right. But when Theo Von was talking to him about Gaza and talking about a genocide and talking about Israel going into Lebanon and talking about. He compared Bibi Netanyahu to Hitler in this conversation, it was at that point that Joe Rogan was like, are you okay? It was at that point Joe Rogan was pushing back and was like, let's kind of like, change the subject here. And so there's. I don't see Joe Rogan, like, to me, and again, I'm not trying to, like, be a, like, super support Theo Vaughn here, but just in that conversation, Theo really seemed to be like, no, no, no, no, no, no, this. And I felt like Joe Rogan was still giving space to Israel, to Bibi Netanyahu. He talks about his service in the military. During this conversation, I didn't see him being fully anti Trump. So that's why I was kind of like, huh? When you were saying it. Not that you said anti Trump, but just like, I didn't feel like Joe had crossed the line in ways of being completely critical of the president and this administration or even Israel, like Theo Vaughn had. There was a difference to. And it could be who you know, like. Yeah. I think part of the reason to your point about the sincerity with podcasts is because in certain ways, it feels like podcasters aren't beholden to networks in ways that people are on television. But. And maybe that might be for Joe Rogan, but he does have friends that I think that he is very loyal to. And you could see his opinion, or maybe his lack of. Of opinion when it came to the things that Theo was bringing up is centered in that you are 100% right.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

There was a clear dividing line in that conversation between Joe Rogan and Theo Vaughn, just like there's a clear dividing line between Joe Rogan and Tim Dillon. Tim Dillon, who was another person that survived it. Excuse me, survived it, supported MAGA when they were running, but now is doing some of the best work on the Internet and criticizing it. You know, your point about Rogan is well made. Rogan exists almost in a Tucker Carlson lane to where you can criticize almost everything. But there are just like for him right now, there's so many different relationships and things like that. Some of the conversations and critiques that are made of me apply to Joe Rogan, to where Joe Rogan is figuring out. I'm not connected to any of these people. But Joe Rogan is figuring out how he can be critical of this but also maintain proximity to Donald Trump or to the MAGA movement. His audience is so big, I don't know, that he wants to quite piss anybody off. Right. He wants to call things out, but once again, he wants to engage in this sort of murky populism that doesn't cast Donald Trump or anyone around him directly in the class of the elites that they would target. Right. Because that's what we're talking about. We're talking about this political and social idea that there is an elite group of people who are controlling everything that's happening and engineering things in a certain way. The question is not whether or not that's happening. The question is who are those people? That's basically the thing that everyone is fighting about. The question is, who are we talking about here? And whereas a year and a half ago, two years, because it was the Democrats that were in office and it was Joe Biden and Kamala Harris who refused to call what was going on in Gaza a genocide, continued to fund Israel doing it because it was a black lady who was running for president that didn't want you to say the F word or the R word, or didn't think that trans people should be put in the back of the bus never to be talked about or to have their identities hidden in American culture, that we should talk about what they. All of that shit without me going into the guts of all of that, because that was easier. Critique. You critique that, right? You critique the people that are telling you that you can't make anti feminist jokes or critique the people that tell you that, like, you know, there are ways that we should seek to live in complex society amongst each other and respect each other's humanity. That, that woke bullshit had to go. And it wasn't just the Joe Rogan ilk, if we'll be honest, that was sick of that. A lot of people were being sick of that. Like we have conversations sometimes around here and I want to get that woke shit out of here, man. You're going too far with that fucking shit. Right? But those people took that and they were like, this is going to be our conduit. Back to the good old days of fun and freedom. And it felt like the people that were, that they indicted for trying to control your speech, the people that they said were funding this war on behalf of, of Netanyahu, the people that were trying to, Jesus Christ, fund HBCUs, what do niggers need to fuck em, right? It seemed like they were the bad guys.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

Yeah.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

And they believed everything. And not only did they believe it, they wanted to believe it.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

They wanted to. That's it.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

They wanted to believe it. They wanted to believe that Trump wasn't the system, that he was actually a shock to the system. Now here you are a year in, and my God, like Donald Trump is trying to tell you, he's like, he's looking at Joe Rogan, he's going, hey, hey, fuck you. And Joe Rogan's going, huh?

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

You couldn't be talking to me? Not me.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

No, no, no, you, you. This is actually all o maga. This is actually all o maga. Donald Trump's going, hey, hey, hey, hey, you, you, Fuck you. And they're going, nah, you mean fuck Humberto and Felicia. You're not saying fuck me. You can be saying fuck me. No, no, no, you, you know, fuck you. No, no. How could you be saying fuck me? You're talking to the non binary like this. Fuck them, right? Hey, it's us, it's fuck them. No, no, no, no, no, no, you, your gas is higher. No, you, you, you, your kids are going to war. No, no, no, no, you like you. No, fuck you, you. And so they just won't believe him. And so Joe, part of Joe Rogan is holding on to that and he doesn't, he doesn't want to cross the President because he's fucking scared of him And Tucker Carlson for all of the talking that Tucker Carlson is doing doesn't want to cross the president because he's fucking scared of him. He doesn't want to be embroiled in battles going back and forth with Stephen Miller or Bannon or whomever else. Don't want to do that. It's too much, you know, so. But we'll see. We'll see. God damn, boy.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

Despite all of that, I mean, you just said Joe Rogan is the one across him, but have either one of them said, we got this wrong, or do they just criticize certain aspects? I mean, Theo definitely more than does more than Joe, but, like, I know that Andrew has been like, I got it wrong.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

No, Andrew. Y' all say what y' all want. Andrew. And the flagrant audience is a little bit more robust about this. Andrew went up. Nah, I was wrong. We saw that. Andrew, Tim, Dillon, a lot of these other people have just been like, whatever we were on, it was bullshit. And look, I get how enraging that is.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

Yeah, it is. It is.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

I get how enraging. But that is at least valuable because you do want the movement to be done.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

But again, I say, and I said this on the podcast before. Are you saying you got it wrong with Trump, who shouldn't ever be in office again? Who knows what he'll try to pull? Are you saying that about Trump? Are you saying that about the people who are backing him up? Are you saying that about your congressman and woman? Are you saying that about your senator? Are you saying that about your governor? Are you saying that about the Supreme Court? Court? Are you saying, like, are you saying that about the vice president? Are you saying that about his cabinet? That is my fear is that it'll be like, well, that was just Trump, and he was unhinged. I need. So it's like, yes, I will credit Theo as I just said in this conversation, but as I've said before, I'm gonna need you to go deeper than that, because I feel like it's easy for you to blame a Trump and that that can never happen again because he could not be in office. Supposed to not be. Or are you saying it's the whole thing machine that's the problem? That is the thing. So good. Andrew said he got it wrong, but you got a lot wrong. It wasn't just Trump.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

It wasn't just Trump. I can't remember the movie, but this is a trope in movies. I can't remember a movie. Somebody's gonna remember it. This is a trope in movies where they go In a fight, and they getting their stuff together, and one brother, one person looks at the other person and goes, hey, after this is over, me and you gotta have a talk. They getting ready to go out and fight somebody else because they weren't on the same page, and one of them had to change their mind. It's like, you know, they literally gearing up, like, after this is over, me and you gotta do it. That's how I feel about that. Yeah. Okay, cool. Come on in. But after this is over. After this is over. Yeah, me and you gotta have a talk. And if you want to have the talk. No, that cool. But remember, what does he say? What did. What did Captain America say? Well, we'll fight you, too.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

Oh, that's not what I was supposed to say.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

Remember that Captain America said. He's like, well, we'll fight you, too. Like, Captain America's like, if. So we'll fight you too. That's Captain America. I said, I love you. So I lose a white man. Captain America's cool. I don't know if he is.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

Oh, well, I can't. I can't. I. I don't know.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

I guess he's good. Captain America's. Captain America's the. Yeah, like, a little bit. Because he's like. He's like, in the middle.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

Yeah.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

They spent Cap to go crazy, you know, like. But, Cap, there's, like, some things I could point out. All right, so should we stay with more of this stuff, or should we. Should we give the listeners a break here? You want to talk about Edward Bloom? Did you see the Dababy thing? I spray that on you?

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

I didn't watch it. That's something about a cartoon picture. I didn't watch it. I didn't want to do Edward Bloom

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

because this is a heavy podcast. If we do. Or should we go to trick Daddy? Donnie, what do you think? We've been getting into it a little bit.

[Donnie]

Have Kanye.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

Oh, that's what we got to do.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

So maybe just Edward Bloom sucks. He's at it again. We knew this was. He set the president, like, precedent. He's been doing it since 92. We know this. You know who he is. Not a lawyer, but stays in the court trying to dismantle anything, any type of program that. Or scholarship that benefits any. This doesn't benefit white men. He wants to create a colorblind society which we know does not, could not, and does not exist. He's at it again. That's really it. He's at it again.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

Well, since we jumped into It.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

I just don't wanna make it too heavy.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

I wanna make it too heavy, but I do. If we're gonna do it, let's just do it real quick because we have to. It's legal. Eagle time. Blake. Blake. Rach. Legal eagle time. Rach. What? All right, so let's get into it, Donnie.

[Donnie]

All right.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

Yeah.

[Donnie]

A lawsuit was filed by Bloom's American alliance for Equal Rights, and it's accusing the CBC Congressional Black Caucus foundation of discrimination, is claiming that awarding, quote, educational opportunities to some young constituents, but not others, based on the color of their skin is neither consensus nor legal.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

Take it away. Okay, so how you want to do this? Because, like, I have thoughts on Bloom and what it really means and who. And who he really is.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

Yeah, we've talked about it.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

I don't want to be like, I'm so long winded. I'm trying to be better.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

Well, I mean, I don't. I. I think that that's the, the only way that you can talk about this. Right. Because you guys, whether you're new, if you're a new listener. We've talked about Edward Bloom a few times. Right. When the affirmative action case went before the Supreme Court, which no longer exists, we talked about him going after the black tech company that the women had created in the scholarship. He's been doing this since 92, since he lost a race, and he feels like he lost that race because of. He was discriminated as a white man. He is not a lawyer. He considers himself an activist and he uses Asian and in this particular incident, also a Hispanic student to further his case, which basically rids these programs and organizations from existing and helping out, filling in the gap in certain areas where minorities or marginalized people don't get the same benefits or are underrepresented in certain spaces and he tears them down. And he's been very successful and he's going to continue to do it. And this won't be the last time I'm sure we talk about him on this podcast, but. Yes, but the motivation behind it, you have to talk about.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

Right. So like Rachel said, it was in your home.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

It was in Texas.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

Yeah. 1992, he filed a lawsuit and she said then. Since then he's been hyper litigious in sort of taking civil rights law and using it to stop black organization, to address systemic disparity. Do you know what I think about when I think about Eric Bloom? Just to let you guys know, Is it Bloom or Bloom?

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

Who cares?

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

Yeah. He is the number one. He is the number One enemy to me, to black civil rights in the entire world, entire country, this guy is the number one enemy. He is your number one enemy and I'll tell you why. He is emblematic of something that is under discussed but is pervasive in American culture. Everything. Everything. Every single thing that America has asked black people to do, to be full citizen in America, black people have done. You can't name something, every thing that has been asked of them. I've said this before, do. We've done it said buy land. We bought the land, have families. We had the families. Establishes your own businesses, your own communities where you don't have to deal with. We did that. Every single move to manufacturing hubs where jobs are. We did it. Every single thing. Because when people say, hey, like immigrant groups come over and look what they do. They establish their own communities with their own cultures. They use their culture to bind them, right? They put their power together and they use that economically. We did all of that and every single time we did it. This is not speculation from the mad ass nigga from Baton Rouge. This is historical fact. Every single time we did it, white people went, no, every time you bought land, they came and took the land. White terrorism, contract buying schemes, that's my land. Now move somewhere else, right? You're going to go buy a house. You're going to establish wealth. Well, no, you can't buy that house. We've redlined you out of that schools. You get the school, they burn the school down. Fuck the school up, defund the school. The HBCU exists because we couldn't go to school anywhere else. These are land grant universities that are purposefully and systematically underfunded. They are, they are saying no to all of it. Every single thing you have been asked to do. You build communities where your dollar stays in the community for two months. They dropped bombs from the sky. Am I fucking crazy? They dropped bombs from the sky before they will let you niggas have anything. This fucking guy right here, Edward Blum, this fucking dude, right, sees black women in tech going, you know what? We're underrepresented in tech. We're not getting what we should be getting from VCs all over the place. But are we filing lawsuits? Are we doing any of the things that as American citizens we should be able to do to like investigate why? No, we will take that and we will do it for ourselves. White America says no. The CBC says, you know what? We're going to give scholarships to black applicants because black applicants need special dispensation in terms of getting like, no, no, we don't want this to be for you. No, no. Like he is saying. And he is using his power to gut any type of organization and movement and action that black people can do on behalf of themselves. This is a contemporary problem with a deep historical lineage, a deep historical lineage of white people going, you will never, ever, ever, no matter what you try to do, be a part of the society that brought you over here as property. It cannot happen. You cannot exist. You are not one of us and you never will be, no matter what, in perpetuity. You are property. And we. If you run fast for us, we might give you something. If you jump high for us, we might give you something. If you twerk for us, we might give you something. But we got to get something fucking out of the deal. You can't do it for yourself. Because if you build your own power base, if you work together, if there is unity, if there is consciousness and purpose, you will threaten us. And we can't have that for us by us. That's what this country is. And when I see this type of shit, it's not only the fact that it exists today, this is targeted use of the law to set back black advancement. It's the fact that it's been this way for so long. And the narrative is that a bunch of lazy niggas decided they didn't want their families anymore. A bunch of lazy niggas decided that they did not want to work anymore, that they didn't want to do anything other than sell drugs and rap. And everybody fucking bought it. And nobody is cracking a fucking book or looking outside of what they are given to see that that is a fucking lie and there's a cost. So to me, when I look at all of this stuff, I'm seeing ironclad examples of someone using this system to stop people for doing from themselves. Cuz he's mad because in 1992 he lost to a black guy.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

Mm. Mm. And that anger that he's been holding onto for over 30 years is causing him to set black people back. And it's going to continue because it's going to get worse. Right? And to your point, which is where the anger comes from, it's the irony in the fact that he is using a law. 1866 Civil Rights Act. And the Civil Rights act was created in 1866 as a direct response to what was happening in the south with the black codes, which were restrictive laws that were passed in the southern states to restrict freedom from black people. Even after they had been granted their freedom from this country, they said, we still don't see them as people. We still dislike them so much. We still hate them so much that we're going to create our own laws to continue to restrict their freedom because we don't in any way want them to have the same things that we have. They aren't deserving of it. We don't like, for whatever reason, not for whatever reason, for hate, for simply out of hate, right, Just for the color of their skin. That is why the Civil Rights act was created. And the frustrating thing about that is that is a history that existed then, and it existed more than 100 years before that. And even as we sit here in 2026, it still exists. You talk about tech companies. $214 billion in venture capital funding was allocated in 2022. That's the best statistic I could find. 1.1% of that was done with two companies with Black founders. There are eight Black CEOs among the Fortune 500 companies. Like the numbers still exist today to show that there is a huge disparity in these industries. Because there is a history that existed prior to the Civil Rights act of 1866 and still exists in present day day. That is why that was created. And the irony and the frustration and the exact point of your anger is that this legislation was meant to give black people rights to free us from black codes, to free us from slavery and all the things that were held against us from the moment that we came to this country. And now it is being used in present day to still stifle the advancement of black people. And it was originally created to give us freedom. That is the most frustrating part. And to add to that, they are using case law where Thurgood Marshall, our first black Supreme Court justice, used it and used that same law actually to allow to say white people were discriminated against in a very particular case. And that is what they use as precedent to further their case now. But it's just so frustrating. For all the things I share, all the emotion that you expressed right there of what you're accusing us of being when we have gone above and beyond. The phrase work twice as hard for half as much exists for a very legitimate reason. And it is for reasons like this. It's really more than half as it's like we have to work even harder than twice of that. And for people like Ed Bloom is the reason for that. But the frustration is you're using the very law that was created to free us to basically enslave us all over again.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

We'll move on, but take a break because I use the bathroom.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

Oh, yeah, I know how that goes.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

I apologize. But like all the cases that we've talked about, the one that's like, the most destabilizing to me is Shelby county. He killed Section 5 of the Voting Rights Act. It's probably his most consequential win. Open the floodgates for the gerrymandering that we're seeing right now, the voter ID laws that we're seeing right now, the polling place closures in Southern states, all of that stuff comes from that. And he said it. I need Asian plaintiffs gaming it. A combination of culture, cynicism and law. Combination of all of that stuff. You gotta have think about the mechanism, the effect. We understand. We understand the effect. Think about the mechanism. It doesn't start at we're gonna use the law. Doesn't stop there. It starts at I need the right cultural face to do this right. And then I need the right case law here, and then I need the political will on the other side of it, a favorable Supreme Court and all of that stuff to get what I want. And what I want is to restrict people's ability to vote. That's what I want.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

Yeah. It's not that he wants a colorblind society. He wants to go back to a society that existed where white men were the ones who were in power and ruled everything. And since the Supreme Court has done away with affirmative action since Shelby v. Holder, and the success in that case, Shelby County v. Holder, since getting away with certain scholarships and all of that, since that has also fueled the Trump administration to restrict dei, what has replaced it? Not a colorblind society. It's under qualified white males that are in these position positions. That is the society he wants to go back to. White men rule everything.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

He's stopped me from buying Bernard a car watch. He gonna be like, you gotta get

[Guest or Additional Commentator]

a ct. Snoring, gasping during sleep, feeling fatigued. Wake up to Zepbound Tirzepatide, the first and only FDA approved prescription medicine for moderate to severe severe obstructive sleep apnea in adults with obesity. Zeb Bound is an injectable prescription medicine that may help adults with moderate to severe obstructive sleep apnea and obesity to improve their osa. Zebound should be used with a reduced calorie diet and increased physical activity. Zeb Bound is Approved as a 2.5, 5, 7.5, 10, 12.5 or 15mg injection. Zepbound contains Tirzepatide and should not be used with other Tirzepatide containing products or any GLP1 receptor agonist medicines. It is not known if Zepbound is safe and effective for use in children. Do not share needles or pins or reuse needles. Don't take Zeb bound if allergic to it, or if you or someone in your family had medullary thyroid cancer or multiple endocrine neoplasia Syndrome Type 2. Tell your doctor if you get a lump or swelling in your neck. Stop Zepbound and call your doctor if you have severe stomach pain or a serious allergic reaction. Severe side effects may include inflamed pancreas or gallbladder problems. Tell your doctor if you experience vision changes, depression or suicidal thoughts before scheduled procedures with anesthesia. If you're nursing, pregnant, plan to be or taking birth control pills. Taking Zepbound with a sulfonylurea or insulin may cause low blood sugar. Side effects include nausea, diarrhea and vomiting, which can cause dehydration and worsen kidney problems. Talk to your doctor, call 1-800-545-5979 or visit zepbound.lilly.com Zepbound and its delivery device base and QuickPen are registered trading trademarks owned or licensed by eli Lilly Company, its subsidiaries or affiliates.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

Transport your senses with Sol de Janeiro's limited edition Perfume Mist collection at Sephora. Spritz on lush notes of rainforest orchid and crisp sea breeze with jeffresco Paraiso. Embrace a floral and fruity scent inspired by Rio's nude beach with cheeky bikini or capture sun kissed bliss with Limonada gelada where zesty Brazilian lemonade and meets coconut milk and golden brown sugar. Don't miss Sol de Janeiro's limited edition Perfume Mist collection only at Sephora.

[Sponsor/Advertisement Voice]

This episode is brought to you by the Active Cash credit card from Wells Fargo. That's a mouthful, but that's because it packs a lot in. Earn unlimited 2% cash rewards on purchases with it, big or small. So whether it's buying tickets to the game and grabbing a coffee, it earns unlimited 2% cash rewards on purchases. Say it with me the Active Cash credit card from Wells Fargo. Be a 2 PERCENTER. Learn more at Wells Fargo.com ActiveCash Terms of Play

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

I gotta get started.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

We gonna take a break. Kanye on the other side of this. Oh, we're back. First of all, sorry for yelling and getting all upset. I'm trying to be better about, you

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

know you're doing Van thank you. You're doing a good job. I can't even tell you the last time you yelled, oh, it was at me when it was at me when

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

I yell, oh, the January crash out. January crash out. The crash out.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

No, you're doing a good job. You're doing a good job. You're doing a good job.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

Okay, Donnie. Kanye west is. His return is. Hit a snack, Hit a speed bump.

[Donnie]

Yeah. He is currently headlining UK's Wireless Festival in July. And sponsors are dropping out one by one. As of this recording, there's a bunch of them happening, starting with Pepsi. The festival was originally advertised as Pepsi Presents Wireless on top of Pepsi. The other sponsors that have dropped out include Rockstar, Energy. Diageo, which owns brands such as Guinness, Bailey, Smirnoff, Ciroc, Captain Morgan, and Johnnie Walker. And paypal, which is a payment partner for wireless, is no longer allowing his branding to be used on promotional material for the festival. But I think you can still purchase things through PayPal for the festival.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

And if I'm to understand this correctly, this is based on pressure that is coming from UK officials.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

Yeah.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

Who are talking to people at the festival going, kanye's past of anti Semitism is. I read a report. I'm not sure if this is true. It's a report that people were actually talking to Keir Starmer, who is the Prime Minister.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

No, the Prime Minister made a statement, I believe.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

Okay. What'd the Prime Minister say? I haven't seen this yet.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

The Prime Minister said it is deeply concerning. Kanye west has been booked to perform at Wireless despite his previous anti Semitic remarks in celebration of not seeing Nazism. He told this to the newspaper, the sun on Sunday. He went further on to say, anti Semitism in any form is abhorrent and must be confronted firmly wherever it appears. Everyone has a responsibility to ensure Britain is a place where Jewish people feel safe.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

So Kanye is coming off of, I think two or three just completely sold out shows. Two at Sofi. So let's say that again. He didn't go sell out. Crypto, just so you guys know, it's not crypto. He did a stadium show, did not sell out a House of Blues West. He did a stadium show, sold it out multiple dates. All right. That in and of itself is massive. Some of your favorite rappers can't do stadiums.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

Yeah. The original show was on this past Friday. That was sold out at a second show Wednesday before, and it was reported that it was sold out. But what I'm told is that it didn't. And a lot of the seats like 25,000 were given away. Like, totally different. Yeah. And like, it looked for people that. I know that went. It looked full, but it wasn't sold out.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

Huh. Interesting. Did not know that. The visuals from the concert looked fucking insane.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

No, I mean, they were. It was. They looked amazing.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

Of people that went that, you know, it was a bunch of people that were hitting me up in a joking way going, yo, Van, we going to Kanye tonight. Come on. We got those people was like, yo, man, we're gon get you at six. I'm like, whatever. No, Van. Oh, we going to Kanye. It's like, no, I'm not. I'm not going to Kanye west concert. But so it's interesting, the visuals from the concert and the fact that he sold out of state anymore, but still.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

Yeah, I mean, sold out Friday seemed

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

to be a clear indication that Kanye west was back. The numbers from Bully came out and the streams were crazy. The sales numbers ended up equating to around 152,000 in the first week, which is not world conquering, but is an incredibly successful debut.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

Yeah, it's still a success.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

Still a success, but that's not world conquering. Just for context, when J. Cole came out, I think it was closer to 300,000. When Kendrick came out, I think it was closer to 300,000 above. And when Drake comes out, it's gonna be nuts. When Drake drops, when Iceman drops, it's probably gonna be 5, 4, maybe could be more like. You might see. It's so anticipated. People want to know what he says. It's going to be a lot of people that listen to that. So Kanye west is not in his classic era, but obviously by this, Kanye west is back and people are interested in what he's going to do, what he's got to say. And going to concerts, this seems to be a significant roadblock to him. And I'm not. No. I'm not sure what I'm supposed to say about it or what. What do you say?

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

Well, you have to remember, like, as we're seeing all these sponsors pull out of the wireless festival, and it almost feels like the wireless festival wanted to see how he did with his streams, wanted to see how maybe this SOFI performance went before they like, solidified it. Obviously it had been in the works. I'm not sure exactly. I know it was last week that they announced it, but I'm not sure, like, when. What the exact timeline was. But obviously they were paying attention to these things to see if there would even be an interest, which means that based off of all of that, I feel like they thought that there was and there was success behind it, so they agreed to make him the headliner, not just for one, but for all three days. You have to remember that the SOFI stadium concerts were not sponsored.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

Right?

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

They were not sponsored. So, you know, yes, people bought tickets, but there was no Pepsi or Diageo or whatever you know, they might sponsor that be on the stadium, but they're not be not those brands, but another sponsorship. But they did not sponsor this concert. So this was like Kanye probably testing the waters as well to see how people would respond to what it was he's doing. And I think that, well, I'd be curious to see how things would have been in the States versus this festival in the uk because the leader of our country didn't come out and make any kind of statement, but the prime minister there made a particular statement against Kanye west headlining. And obviously that is having a trickle down effect as we see these sponsors pulling out. But when Kanye west apologized this year, and I remember you said you talked about he's, he's got an album that's coming out, you know, and I think that a lot of people were like, okay, we've seen you apologize. We've also seen you for something in the past and we've seen you take it back and then stand down and again and then apologize again and then take some of it back and now you're apologizing again. And I think that for me, when I saw this apology, knowing an album was coming out, then very quickly seeing the concert announced, it just seemed that it felt like the apology was, was related to that. And it might not be, but the, the closeness into the, the, the album and then with the concerts and then with this festival, it feels like, okay, you've got this major backlash. You're losing business deals, you're losing money. You know, there might be public pressure for you to change your tune. And it all just feels like it's happening too close. And I think that there's this question of is there sincerity? That's how I'm looking at this. Is there sincerity in what Kanye west is doing? We'll never really know. But I think in addition to the apology and the acknowledgement of his past behavior, because one apology is being placed on years and years of hate towards several communities. I need there to be a pause. I needed there to be a reflection, a change in tone, because I feel like without that reflection, it feels like that there's this missing layer and it Feels like you're trying to apologize, to smooth things over so you can get back to business as usual. And because when I. When somebody takes a pause and they reflect, it also gives them time to reflect on that behavior. It gives them time to figure, like, make us feel like you're trying to figure out how you can do better. And that was lacking in all of this. It was apology album, concerts, festival. And I think you overestimated how people feel about it. Yes, you sold out Sofi. Yes, one night. Yes. Another night, majority of it was sold out as well. Yes, you did well streaming. But people are still impacted, and they have the right to be. I mean, when Kanye west did his apology, he said, I'm not asking for sympathy or a free pass, though I aspire to earn your forgiveness. He said, I write today simply to ask for your patience and understanding as I find my way home. I think people like me say we need to see you do more to truly believe in the words that you're saying. I don't feel like you get to go back to doing exactly what you were doing before when what you said has consequences and impacted so many people. And I think they overestimated, based on the streaming and how he did on streaming and how he did with this concert, that people had moved past it, and they haven't, and they are well within their right to not do that.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

To be fair, I think people moving past it is one thing. I think corporations moving past it is a different thing.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

But corporations, if corporations didn't think that it would impact their bottom dollar, they'd move past it.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

Yeah, well.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

And it's people who are going to be affecting that. So I think they feel like people are not okay with it. There's going to be a lot of backlash for them putting their name on a festival that Kanye west is headlining. Especially in the times that we're in right now that they feel like they're not. We talk about, like, no company's gonna do it because they find it in their hearts to do this. They're doing it because they feel like it's gonna affect their business. And if they're feeling that, it is because they feel people are not okay with this.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

I hear you. The only thing I'm contending with in discussing this right now is that this doesn't seem to have resulted from a groundswell of people. There seems to be people. There seems to be some individuals that went and talked to Keir Starmer. So Keir Starmer said something, and then corporations were like, this is A bad idea, and we don't want to do it. And so now the corporations are making the decision to remove Kanye west from the wireless festival.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

Like, I think the wireless festival will still be sold out, but will people boycott your brand? And that is what I think that they're afraid of. Will people say, well, we're not buying Pepsi anymore? Will people say, well, we're not gonna buy some of these brands that are under Diageo or who else? Rockstar Energy. That's. I think, the fear that they're. Cause the concert will sell out. People will go to the wireless festival, no doubt.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

I think what I'm trying to get at is that. So what I've seen is that people have been very willing to. People, as far as Kanye west fans are concerned, have been very willing to,

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

like, support Kanye west.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

The artistry, like, very willing to. Right. Kanye west, to me, has a low bar to clear as far as that's concerned. I don't think that a lot of people hold that against them. Right. I listen to the album. There's gonna put this. I don't think people give a fuck about any of this. I think there are some people who care. I've seen some people that have cared, but, like, there were mass celebrities out there.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

I saw some people give a growing list of celebrities that attended.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

So I don't think people. I don't think people give a fuck at all. I don't think they care. Of course, there are some people that I've seen say, hey, how could you guys go out there and go to the Kanye west concert? How could you guys do this? But I think, by and large, people right now just want to feel something. If Kanye West's music makes them feel good, it's cool. I think he was almost banking on that. That people want for so, so badly. A lot of people want so badly for, number one, him to be able to produce the stuff that he produces. His music, his clothes, whatever. But also, there's a parasocial, emotional connection to Kanye west that is very unique to me. People care about Kanye west as an entity, but also kind of a person because he wears his flaws, like, so grotesquely. Like, people see, and they go, God damn, look how crazy you must be. Look how fucked up you must be to do some of the stuff that you're doing. There's no way that he means this. If some of the stuff that Kanye did was actually less offensive, I think people will be able to maintain their animus for him more. Like, if he did stuff that was like, less offensive than what he's done. But the stuff that he's done is so outrageous and it's so across the board that a lot of people go, there's no way he really means it. Now, what I would argue is that Kanye West, I've talked about this before, has done a lot to, you know, intellectually give proof of his belief system. He's talked about a lot of stuff. There's like, he's done some work into what he believes. He's looked at it, he's thought it through. If that is in somehow inspired by some mania that exists in his brain, or if that is inspired by him crashing out. But when you hear him talk, he's making sense. So there's not a lot of reason to believe sometimes. Sometimes there's not a lot of reason to believe that. That he doesn't believe the things that he's saying. He does. There's a lot of reason to believe, to me that he wouldn't be saying them if he was of sounder mind. So it's not that he. I think that he doesn't believe some of the stuff that he said. The DD does believe it. I think that if he was of sounder mind at times that he might have not said some of the things that he said. That's an interesting situation in terms of a public and also a corporate tug of war, because there are plenty of guys, like comedians, right, let's say comedians, and use them as an example. You can cancel a comedian corporately and from a prestige standpoint, but you cannot cancel a comedian totally because funny is too devastating. So a lot of the canceled comedians that we've seen, they are canceled. Insofar as you're not gonna see these guys at the Emmys, you're not gonna see these guys at the Golden Globes, you're not gonna see these guys on the late night shows. You're not gonna see them. The places where successful comedians thrive to where we say, you are a successful comedian. Cause you can do this, you can do that. But some of these same guys, they can sell out Madison Square Garden, they can sell out arenas, they can get money as comedians every single weekend. People still go, hey, you make me laugh. I've had this long history with you. But while brands and other things might not do that, the prestige part of it might not do that. That might be the place that Kanye west finds himself in.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

Well, yeah, I think that is gonna be at least for a very long time. Because of what I said about the apology. And you Know, the lack of reflection, like, it just seems to be something that, like a disconnect that something isn't landing there. But I, I know. I'm not shocked that Kanye sold out Sofi. I. There is. He has a fan base, he has a community that's rocking with them no matter what, and probably has gained even more of a fan base for people who did like some of the hateful rhetoric that he was saying. But that's that fan base outside of that, which isn't majority. I don't think Pepsi wants to see Pepsi. Pepsi Presents wireless festival headline, Kanye West. They don't want their name there because people, not everybody's a fan, not majority of people are fans of Kanye west and they're gonna remember that Pepsi's name was attached to this or whoever else. I'm using Pepsi because it was Pepsi Presents. But I think that is what the fear is. In the long term, it's going to affect their bottom dollar. As people associate Pepsi with Kanye West. It's one thing for his, his artistry, the music, the concert, the thing that he is giving to people that makes them feel connected. To your point, it's a total separate thing with the corporate sponsorship. And you can't have your name affiliated with Kanye west because I do believe that if they feel it damages their reputation, their brand, which will damage their bottom dollar at the end of the day. Because most people aren't Kanye west fans. Well, I mean, in the grand scheme of things, maybe like even their demographic, I don't know who drinks Pepsi, but their demographic, I guess I should say.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

Yeah. So a couple of things. You know, he did sell out shows in Mexico City before this. Right. So in January he sold out shows in Mexico City. Right.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

I think he will sell out a show in any city I know.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

So what? So I'm not being pedantic about this, but what I'm saying is that in this particular situation, Pepsi not wanting to associate itself with Nazism, that seems like a slam dunk. Okay, like, so Pepsi not wanting to associate itself with Nazism seems like a slam dunk. Nazism is so deeply associated with anti Semitism, obviously, because they were the number one target of the Nazis and 6 million people were. Were brutally killed and worked to death in camps because of Nazism. So the fact that this happens and last year you had some prominent idiot streamers in Miami singing the Kanye West Heil Hitler song and even that. So that happens. And you think that those people who already are, they exist, they're self described as existing outside of what would be considered polite society or outside the matrix or whatever the fuck it is you want to call it. So them singing that song is not shocking at all. Them being around that is not shocking at all. What was shocking was the apology tour that Andrew Tate went on after the song came out. That was actually shocking that he feels the need to go out and still be considered decent by someone, whatever. But you saw very quickly people go, no, none of that. The DJ was fired. The mayor of Miami beach comes out and does all of that stuff. So we haven't completely lost the battle over Nazism being the third rail. We haven't completely lost that battle. Okay, but what I am saying is this situation is these are corporations saying, we don't want to stand next to this. This is not based on any type of boycott from people. Because the only reason why I'm bringing that up is because, like, I want people to let people know Kanye west is gonna be in your face. It's like, it's. Kanye west is gonna be in your face. If you're Kanye west, you could literally go get a venue next to the wireless festival and put people in the venue and they gonna come to see you and there's going to be. Watch. You know what's interesting? I'm just saying. Shit. I don't know what you. You know what's interesting? Watch. The response to this. I'm interested in what the response to this will be. The response from all of the sides of the Internet are gonna be like, you know, that's typical. But how the music industry responds to this will be interesting because it will be interesting. Who does perform there, when they perform there, if they attempt to martyr Kanye in any way. Because the wildest festival is straight up his hip hop shit, right? So they're gonna be some Kanye west collaborators there. So will they try to martyr Kanye in any way? Will it be like, Kanye should have been here? What's the deal? The industry versus the corporations versus the people's response to Kanye West's return was always gonna be a conversation that was had. But this is gonna bring it to a head like how people are going to feel about. But look, I mean, I don't know what the fuck I'm supposed to say. You put an iced out swastika around your neck and you wear the fucking swastika. It's people that's never gonna fuck with that. Like what you want. You know what I mean? Like, I'm not tripping on the people that went to the concert at all. I Know, a lot of people are like, do I wish we were talking about this in a different way? I'm not tripping on the people that went to the concert, but I'm also not tripping on people that go, nah, there's like. To your point, there's more shit you gotta do and you haven't done it. And not only that, you're not trying to do it. Even though I have no idea what's being done behind the scenes.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

Yeah.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

Like, we can't know, like, what the deal is. But even, like, you know, the fucking. The culture that, like, whenever you criticize Jay Z or Beyonce goes like, they get super upset. Whatever you have to say, whether it's in good faith or not, they get super mad, man. The things that he said about them, about them and about their family. Like, you would think that there would have to be some kind of incredible public overture. Cause I don't know what happened behind the scenes. Maybe everybody talked about it. Maybe it's fine. Maybe there's an understanding of the mental place that he was in and all of that stuff. Maybe it's.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

I do think people do that.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

Yeah. I think the people probably go, look, he's obviously troubled or something like. But you would think if it were me and something like that were said about me and said about somebody that close to me and that was. I would. I feel like I would need something to be said in a more grandiose way, even if that's selfish, for people to be able to. For me to be able to move on with it and not, like, hold an incredible, intense grudge and want to see something bad happen.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

Yeah. I mean, I don't know. There's just so much more that could be done that. I'm not knocking his apology. We'll never know how sincere or not, but just the way it looks. I mean, even, like, you have a song called Hell Hitler that is. That is going to live on, that people use. I just, It's.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

I'm telling you straight up, I would not be surprised. I'm actually calling it, this is Going to Backfire on the Wireless Festival. Watch, watch, watch this right here. We think people are under. This is Going to Backfire on the wireless festival. This, in a way, was the best thing that could have happened to him.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

You think it's good? Oh, you mean in a good way for the wireless festival?

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

No, no, no, no, no, no. In a bad way for the wireless festival. This is going to backfire in a bad way for the wireless festival because people are going to look at this as corporations who don't have mental health issues, corporations who don't do really nothing to make you feel good. Corporations who. They have no emotional connection to. Corporations deciding who should and should not be at a place like this. And, like, people like, watch. I'm not doing what I feel.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

Only if the festival removes him. So not the festival. You're saying these brands.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

Well, right.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

Yeah.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

I think that if. If the what? I think.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

I don't think they're gonna remove him.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

Well, it just. It just depends.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

Well, yeah, I guess if they lose

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

all of their sponsors.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

I tried to look up the line. If they haven't announced it.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

Yeah. If they. If they lose all their sponsors and stuff like that, they'd have no choice but to remove them or like. Or shit. I don't know. I don't even know how the economics of that work. Maybe if the gate is crazy and this actually becomes an advertisement for fucking going to the Wireless Festival. Now, there might be people that go. If they hating on. Yay. I gotta go. Oh, I'm sure it might be crazy. I don't know how that affects their bottom line in terms of sponsorships and stuff like that. Because you imagine they're getting millions of dollars and stuff from all of these different people. They're not.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

Yeah. That's how you pay for, like, the setup, the artist.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

Right.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

Yeah.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

So it probably increases their fucking overhead or whatever. But, like, do they make more on the back end? Because there's some controversy. Does the fact that Kanye west is dangerous and corporations don't fuck with him end up helping his message in some sort of way? I mean, we say, no, corporations help. This is done. This concert was done with Live Nation. So there are still some. Corporations don't have any problem being in Kanye west business.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

Yeah.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

So we'll see how this works out. But I'm telling you right now, I think if Wireless were to make the decision to get rid of Kanye west, which to your point is. Well, you know, take that point that they haven't. I think it would backfire on them because people just got a lot to care about, and they just want to go hear some of the raps that they used to love. All right, last thing. This is. This is. I want to know how you feel about this before we get out of here. This is because it's all the same. Wait, you said it was all the same.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

Johnny, lead us in.

[Donnie]

Let's talk about it. Trick Daddy performed at AKA Sorority's South Atlanta Regional conference recently, and he left Members very uncomfortable to the point where the sorority director shut the performance down. She revealed this statement after the incident. She said, we met several times with him and his team to detail our requirements, including attire, language, and specific songs. Unfortunately, our requirements were ignored. The language, lyrics and the comments made by the artist were not acceptable. I ended the performance because of the disrespect for our organization and for our brand. Now, after this statement, Trick Daddy pushed back online. Let's hear from Trick Daddy himself.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

Don't play. That's right. So I'm performing for the AKAs and yeah, I do. Jump on it. That's one of my records. You should have known that when you booked me. But don't put out no statement. Talking about you told me what the. You gave me a playlist. You can't give me no playlist. This ain't your wedding. Wrong with you? I ain't no shorty, I ain't no boy. Anybody that was in that said Diddy and was sanctified, they should not been in there. Once I grabbed that mic.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

Donnie, do you have the clip? Do you have some sounds of his actual performance?

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

Now watch my stomach. Watch the dick. Watch it. Don't turn my mic down. Turn the music up. Turn my mic up. Do it for the hood, bitch ass niggas.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

I do it for the hood.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

If y' all so concerned.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

Like, this is by far my favorite thing that I saw on the Internet in the last few days. I think the most diabolical part of it all is that he came out in a pink T shirt and a pink beanie like this. Delta Sigma Theta Sorority Incorporated would never. We would never.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

See Gisele Bryant, all of these people. That's like being a copy, whatever. Trying to act like, what were you thinking?

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

Did you think he was gonna come out there and be like, trick loves the kids. All his music is vulgar like this. Vulgar. But I will say in the defense, like, there was the video of the young man who was like, they're leaving. And they were like, aunties were packing up and out of there. But there were also a bunch of AKAs at the front who had their phones out, who were recording and who were dancing. Listen, I'm not sure what the principles are of Alpha Kappa Alpha, but for what Delta Sigma Theta Sorority Incorporated stands for. We would never. I mean, those lyrics and that performance do not embody the principles and the things that Delta Sigma Theta Sorority Incorporated stands for. We would never. I mean, we would never. There's so many other. I know this was a Regional conference. There's so many other performers you could have chosen from the region, but you chose Trick Daddy, who went viral a few months ago on how he views women and how he likes to date a certain type of woman to control them. And that is who you picked to headline. And you expected him to not tell you to jump on his dick.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

Jump on the dick. To jump on the dick.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

And not. Oh, sorry, excuse me. Jump on the dick and not also perform the dance. His dance. That goes along with it. And he did that in your colors, right?

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

Yeah. Yeah. See, now, remember, just see. Diabolical. Just remember. See how y' all acted like this whole time, I see how she was gaslighting me this whole time. I get to use that. I never get to use gaslighting. I'm the gaslighter. I never get to use gaslighting.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

See how you gaslighting this whole. I say love, as in, like, I'm not going to talk bad about you for joining a certain sorority, but I will talk about the differences between them. And this is a clear difference. There is a clear line drawn here.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

Now, if it was like you said it was, you'd have taken this as an affront on all Divine Nine lady sororities. No, but you said the AKA is out of pocket. Let me tell you why.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

It was their performance.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

It's their performance. Let me tell you what I think happened here.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

So fake happened.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

I have a theory here. So the lady who runs the aka, I think her name is Tiffany Moore.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

This region, it's a regional thing.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

Tiffany Moore. Russell, she said that we met several times with him and his team to decide tell our requirements, including entire language and specific songs. Unfortunately, our requirements were ignored. The language lyrics and the comments made by the artists were not acceptable. I ended the performance because of the disrespect for our organization and for our brand. Okay, now treat Daddy, in his response, says, you can't tell me what to play. Okay, cool. But he also said something else in his response.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

What?

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

He said that they started an hour late. He said so.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

He was mad.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

He was mad. He said that they started an hour late. He said that the. He went out of his way in his response to say that the shit got started an hour late. I think Trick Daddy did agree to not play Jump on the Dick in a way. He said, he ain't got no radio edits. Trick Daddy. That's not true. When Nan first came out, the video came out and it was, you don't know Nan.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

Yeah.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

And there was no Nan Nigga. On the end of it. When I first heard the radio edit of the. The actual version of Nan Nigga, because I seen the video on, and then I went out and bought this. When I first heard it, Trina said, you don't know nah, bitch. That's off the chain like me. She said, you don't know nah, bitch. That'll straight up eat the dick. While another sucked the click. I was like, yo, this is the type of rap that I like, okay? I was like, who is this?

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

Yo plays by band, do about 5 or 6. Best friend young, you know?

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

Now you see what I'm saying. When I first heard. When I first, I was like, yeah, I'm fucking with her. I'm buying stock and Trina early. I was like, this is the type of shit that I like to hear. So there are radio edits, and those radio edits could have been played. I think that he waited an hour. He got pissed off, and he was like, you know what? They don't have their shit together. I'm about to get out here, and they gonna jump on the show out. They gonna jump on it. It's Trick Daddy. They're gonna jump on the dick. Donnie, I sent you one more piece of Trick Daddy sound. Do you know it? This is something that Trick Daddy said, and I agree with him. This is true. This is a truth from Trick Daddy Dollars that's about to come. And now everybody let go of all these hangups. Donnie, play it. You want to get that? Everybody know that. And everybody that's got a. You like to get it. Everybody that's got a. Like to get that. Don't play with no real man.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

What's the point? Why is he saying. What was the context?

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

The context is this. He asked, you want to get your sucked?

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

Oh, yeah. At the concert. Yeah.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

And he says that these women were offended by that. But he also says that everybody that has a pussy likes to get it sucked. You guys, is that not truth? That's truth. So to my sisters in AKA I don't take the confrontational tone with you guys that Rachel does. That's some different shit to where y' all battling against each other in a different step situations and simulations that y' all have from see to signing. I don't take that. But I'm saying to AKA To Delta because you said Deltas will never be down this. I've known a lot of Deltas over my time, and not very many of them have problems with jumping on the dick. Okay? Okay. So not the same. So what I'M saying.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

I didn't say they had a problem with it. We would not have this.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

So my point is to everyone, it's okay to jump on the dick. It's okay to get your pussy sucked, and it's okay to talk about it. You know, Trick Daddy is trying to do something. Cause Luke was out, man. The akas was trying to get it lit. The akas had Trick Daddy, JT Money, and Luke to come out perform.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

Well, Luke's song scarred. Both AKAs and Deltas have a strut to Like a national. Like a national strut to. So that I'm actually cool. My question is when he comes out, when he. I did it before here. Cap did come in. Captain Dick coming.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

Captain Cap did coming.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

Cap did come.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

My question is, so you. Y' all so upstanding, why aren't y' all stomping the Karen Shepard Clark? Why don't y' all have a Mary Mary stomp?

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

We might have had a strut to Shackles.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

Like, shackles. Like, why don't y' all have shackles? If y' all so up there. You know what I'm saying? I want to hear if it's so wholesome.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

I didn't say that.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

Strut to Spice Girls. If you want to be my lover, you got to get with my friends. Make it last forever. Friendship never ends. Like, if y' all want to strut to that. But that's not what y' all strutting to. I know what y' all just shredding

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

is totally different than this.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

It is.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

It is.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

Boy, if you ever wanted to get lit. If you ever want. Want to have a great time. Year 2000, 2001. Let back that ass up. Come on in a room full of Deltas and watch the excellence Just women, period.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

Though dancing.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

Oh, they had choreographed dance moves.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

Oh, yeah. They had a strut to it.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

Okay, that has a strut to it. So, look, I'm saying. I get it. I understand. Number one, I think Trick was mad, which is why he told all the AKAs to jump on the dick.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

Well, we know how he values women, just period. So the fact that women made him lay.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

They bring him on the stage.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

Nobody did their research.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

I just don't think it's very many AKAs in that audience that hadn't jumped on the dick before. So to me, it is what it is.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

I'm just going down a Trick Daddy playlist. I'm like, what song did you. What did you say? Think the playlist was going to be that's why the trick loves the kids. That's the only thing I can think of that would have been maybe shut up.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

Could have worked, huh? Not shut up. What's the other one? That's not. That's. Shut up. Shut up, man. Oh, take it to the house. That's kind of.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

Oh, that is. That is.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

Take it to the house.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

I wonder if that was on the. He. Well, he probably didn't get there. He didn't get there. They shut the performance down.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

Right.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

I wonder how much y' all paid him to.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

For everybody to come out there. I want to see the whole slip and slide out in that. It I. With Trick Daddy, man. What he said before was wild. He shouldn't have never said that when he said that about. But it's Trick Daddy. You used it.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

Y' all do your research. Okay, like, this was an inevitable performance. Like, what do you think you were

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

gonna get before we get out of here? Who would you. If you were doing the.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

If this was like a Southern. It was like a Southern. Because it was the regional. Come out there, and I was picking somebody from that era.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

Well, pick whoever you want. Who would you have come out and perform for? The. The Deltas? Whoever you like. Who would be your Delta lineup at the Delta Conclave?

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

I don't know. I'm gonna stick with that era because I feel like that's. They were trying to hit, like, the millennial time. Like that peak 992000. I mean, like, ti would have been tip. Ti would have been really fun. Jeezy would have been fun.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

Jeezy. That's crazy. So sell drugs to the Deltas.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

I did not say that.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

Delta's in the trap.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

Well, I said the music trap.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

Ass.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

The music standing old vas.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

I love Jeezy.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

I like Jeezy, too. I'm just saying Jeezy performs with the whole orchestra now. It's classy. Now you put on your black tie outfit.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

Jeezy is the top 10 rapper of all time. How's that sound? That's how I feel. Okay, so, like, so this. But what I'm saying is these organizations. If it's like that, then why don't y' all have. I don't know. Okay, Mariah Carey. She can call it.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

I was doing Southern. Mariah Carey would be amazing. But I'm sure they can't afford K. Michelle is a Delta, so. She was. Yes. Come on. She's a Delta.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

She just debuted on the Real Housewives show.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

You watched it last night.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

I did not okay.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

She was. She was. K. Michelle is meant to be on tv. Like, I watched her at the beginning of Love and Hip Hop. I fell off. I know it didn't end well for her. I am so glad she's back on our screens. She's so funny, and I found myself watching it, like, I want to hang out with her. She's so. Yeah. Like, she was. And she's a Delta. Pinky. Pinky Cole's on there. She's a Delta, too. They were talking about. You know, we've had Pinky on the podcast before, but. But, yeah, K. Michelle Delta. She was. She was. She would probably donate her time to what? To the conference.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

Yeah, that'd be. I will watch that performance. All right, that's enough, Trick. We fuck with you. The AKAs love you.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

Get it together. I just want people to know they're talking about y' all and you gave them an excuse. They're talking about y'.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

All.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

Y' all are trending for the wrong reasons.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

See, See? I just want y' all to hear

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

for the wrong reasons. These are facts, y'.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

All. And this is specifically for Gisele Bryant and for Candice from Potomac.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

Is Candace an aka?

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

She's not an aka, but I think Candace was in the comments, too. Candace?

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

What did Candace say?

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

What did Candace say specifically for Gisele?

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

Cause Candace said that you would have been a Sigma.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

Dissing the Sigmas. Two things. Dissing the Sigmas and fighting with the AKs. Y' all all call me crazy, but I was right. Candace and Giselle. I see y'. All. Oh, do you see? Giselle's daughter took the same picture that she took. Ella was nice.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

Yeah, her daughter's aka.

[Ivan Lathan Jr.]

All right, take your thing. Caps off.

[Rachel Lynn Lindsay]

I'm Rachel and Lindsay. Bye, guys.