Meg and Klay’s Breakup and Trump’s Second Shooting Attempt? Plus, Durand Bernarr on Stardom

Summary

Higher Learning with Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay

Episode: “Meg and Klay’s Breakup and Trump’s Second Shooting Attempt? Plus, Durand Bernarr on Stardom”

Date: April 28, 2026

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EPISODE OVERVIEW

Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay return with a packed episode, analyzing two headline-making topics in Black culture: the attempted shooting at the White House Correspondents’ Dinner attended by President Trump, and the highly publicized breakup between Megan Thee Stallion and Klay Thompson. They examine how these events intersect with politics, gender, and Black public discourse. The episode features a wide-ranging conversation with special guest Durand Bernarr, covering his journey to stardom, authenticity, the pressure of being a “brand,” and the evolving landscape for queer artists in Black music. The show closes with a comedic segment and a sharp reflection on the state of stand-up comedy with guest Aida Rodriguez.

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KEY SEGMENTS AND DISCUSSION POINTS

1. Trump, the White House Correspondents’ Dinner Shooting Attempt, and Political Fallout

[03:06 - 20:21]

• Van on Being in D.C. During the Incident:
  Van shares that he was covering the White House Correspondents’ Dinner for CNN when a man with guns and knives (Cole Thomas Allen) stormed the lobby where Trump was present. The President was evacuated and unharmed.

• Security Concerns and Political Spin:
  They break down how Trump immediately used the incident to push for his pet project: holding events in a “drone-proof, bulletproof” White House ballroom.
  Van: “He used what happened to make the case for his ballroom... Everybody knows that by now.” [04:40]

• Personal Reactions and Inside CNN:
  Van describes the surreal atmosphere at CNN during the crisis, including confusion over whether the shooter targeted Trump or the press. He notes how the threat of violence is now ubiquitous in America.
  Van: "Wherever you go, the threat of violence, spree violence, terrorism, is ever present..." [10:12]

• Growing Public Cynicism and Conspiracy Theories:
  Rachel discusses the American desensitization to gun violence, and how political distrust and conspiracy theories (“It’s a distraction from Iran/Epstein,” “It was staged...”) immediately flooded social media.
  Rachel: “As the days go by, I feel like I’m becoming more of a conspiracy theorist... It almost wasn’t shocking that this happened at the White House Correspondents’ Dinner.” [12:09]

• Right-Wing Talking Point Coordination:
  Van notes the “breathtaking coordination” of right-wing social media immediately echoing Trump on the Ballroom:
  “Ashley Sinclair collated all the tweets... ‘This is why we need the ballroom.’” [16:10]
  He asks if the left should match this level of messaging discipline—Rachel says no.

2. Megan Thee Stallion & Klay Thompson’s Breakup and Black Gender Wars

[22:00 - 58:17]

• Social Media Fallout:
  The end of Megan and Klay’s relationship unleashes intense social commentary.
  Rachel (on Megan's Instagram post): "She said cheating had me around your whole family playing house... Got cold feet holding you down through all your horrible, all-caps, mood swings..." [22:06]

• Gendered Double Standards and Stereotypes:

  • Rachel and Van analyze how rumors of Klay's serial cheating barely dent his reputation, while damaging, sexualized rumors about Megan catch fire (e.g. degrading memes of her “in a compromising position”).
  • Rachel: “There is a reputation that precedes Klay Thompson about cheating. So I’m not surprised that there are allegations…” [25:03]
  • On Megan: “She was disrespected and embarrassed and kind of shamed in such a public... Her supporters are upset, and rightfully so.” [26:58]

• The Impact of Stereotypes:

  • Van and Rachel debate whether rumors and shaming memes actually harm Megan’s romantic prospects (“will it be harder for her to get married?”).
  • Van: “That picture is disgusting... because of what it means for women who aren’t Meg Thee Stallion. What it means for women who might be perceived as promiscuous...” [37:36]

• Celebrity as Mascot for Cultural Pain:

  • Van draws a parallel between public feelings about Shadour Sanders (for Black men) and Megan (for Black women)—each becomes a “mascot” or flashpoint for broader issues (fatherhood, victimhood, protection, vulnerability).
  • Van: “I do feel like she has become, for a lot of people, just a flashpoint of how black women are treated… Who is going to take care of Megan Thee Stallion?” [49:49]

• Rachel’s Perspective:

  • Rachel empathizes with the emotional investment in Meg but cautions about making every celebrity breakup a referendum on Black gender relations or black men’s failure to protect black women.
  • “I’m not looking at what Clay did to Megan... I can’t make that compare to femicide... But I can’t generalize to that.” [54:51]

• Memorable Exchange:

  • Van (on celebrity over-identification): “At my most cynical… sometimes your breakup, your... divorce… is part of very cynical and deliberate PR. Stuff that is used to incite a bunch of people that might love you.” [40:10]
  • Rachel: “You can’t compare yourself to every single thing you see... I just don’t understand getting enraged, being degrading or wanting to shame someone based off of shit you do not know.” [44:22]

3. Durand Bernarr on Stardom, Authenticity, and Queer Representation

[59:11 - 110:51]

• Durand’s Career and Approach to Fame:

  • Describes building his career over 20 years—the “slow burn,” not an overnight success.
  • Emphasizes the importance of being grounded: “Being where my feet are as much as I possibly can... At the speed that it’s going, that is also an adjustment.” [63:19]

• The Pressure to Be a Brand:

  • Van shares a cautionary story: “When does Coke rest?... When does a brand rest?” [64:13]
  • Durand reflects: “What on earth did I say yes to?... I’m able to be myself, and that opens doors for me in ways that have not before.” [65:47]

• Community, Team, and Longevity:

  • “You cannot do this by yourself. It is just... impossible... For me, I have a village that just happened to become the team.” [76:12]
  • Encourages artists: “Let’s talk when you reach year 15... if nothing popped off then holla at me when they can buy you a drink.” [76:59]

• Queerness and Black Music:

  • Van and Durand discuss how older artists often had to hide or “mute” their sexuality—a “truce” no longer accepted by contemporary queer artists.
  • Durand: “I never signed up for it in the first place... I’ve never asked for anyone’s permission to be myself.” [86:57], [88:43]

• The Burden of Public Love:

  • Durand addresses the challenges of being adored, overstimulation from fans, and protecting personal space: “The excitement can sometimes cloud people’s judgment... you’re making yourself comfortable on my body and you haven’t even introduced yourself.” [91:23]

• Comedy, Therapy, and Black Queer Joy:

  • Talks about running bits, therapy with “two therapists,” joy in performing, and his upcoming album (“Banal Period” out May 1).

• Notable Soundbite:

  • Durand: “Anything that comes out of our mouth towards black women, it needs to be lifting y’all up… They are going through enough right now... Anything, it needs to be lifting y’all up.” [99:01]

4. The State of Stand-Up Comedy (with Aida Rodriguez)

[111:00 - 134:48]

• Stand-Up as a Craft, Not Just Content:

  • Aida and the hosts discuss what separates true standup from “Internet comedians,” crowd-work culture, and how social media is changing club etiquette and artistic expectations.
  • “Crowd work is a tool... but what that does is foster an environment of people who don’t know how to behave at a comedy show.” [120:35]

• Comedy, Diversity, and the Political Divide:

  • Rodriguez details challenges for women and LGBTQ+ comedians and pushes back on the claim that “comedy is being pushed to the right”—it’s always been a white, male-dominated field.
  • “I’ve been endangered in this space since I stepped into it... they expect a certain comedy from me and that’s not what I give them.” [126:33]

• Comedy’s Exciting Future:

  • The internet now amplifies diverse voices, including women, queer people, and older stand-up icons like Marsha Warfield and George Carlin.
  • “It’s fun to see... Sometimes the right people are getting the exposure that they need.” [129:43]

• Memorable Quotes:

  • “Being a standup comedian is not making the people who think like you laugh. It’s being able to make a bunch of people that come from different places all join together in laughter at what you’re thinking.” – Aida [117:48]
  • “When you stop being nervous, quit.” – Chris Rock (via Aida Rodriguez) [135:16]

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NOTABLE TIMESTAMPS

| Timestamp | Segment Summary / Quote | |------------|:-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 04:40 | Van on Trump spinning the shooting incident as justification for ballroom security | | 10:12 | Van: “Threat of violence, spree violence...is ever present” | | 12:09 | Rachel describes desensitization and instant conspiracy chatter around the “attack” | | 16:10 | Van details coordination behind right-wing talking points: “this is why we need the ballroom” | | 22:06 | Rachel recites Megan’s Instagram post declaring breakup with Klay | | 26:58 | Rachel: “She was disrespected and embarrassed and shamed...her supporters are upset...” | | 37:36 | Van: “That picture is disgusting...it means for women who aren’t Meg Thee Stallion...” | | 40:10 | Van on PR cynicism and celebrity “breakups” | | 49:49 | Van: “Who will take care of Megan?” | | 63:19 | Durand: “Being where my feet are as much as I possibly can...at the speed that it’s going” | | 65:47 | Durand: “I’m able to be myself, and that opens doors for me...” | | 76:12 | Durand: “You cannot do this by yourself...For me, I have a village that just happened to become the team.” | | 86:57 | Durand: “I never signed up for it (the truce)...I’ve never asked for anyone’s permission to be myself.” | | 99:01 | Durand: “Anything that comes out of our mouth towards black women, it needs to be lifting y’ all up.” | | 117:48 | Aida Rodriguez: “Being a standup comedian is not making the people who think like you laugh...” | | 135:16 | Chris Rock (via Aida): “When you stop being nervous, quit.” |

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MEMORABLE MOMENTS

• Van and Rachel’s Playful Banter:

  • Running jokes about allergies, nasal sprays, and “the beef with Chris Ryan.”

• Durand Bernard’s Infectious Joy:

  • Candid discussion on his identity, vulnerability, and handling “the brand” of Durand.
  • Durand’s advice: “H.O.E. is ‘happiness over everything’ – I’m always in a constant state of hoe!” [103:29]

• Comedy Roast of Each Other:

  • Van and Rachel end the show with a tongue-in-cheek segment on “appropriate compliments,” referencing Stephen A. Smith’s on-air comments.
    • “You can’t see my breasts today, I appreciate that.” – Van [137:41]
    • “You've been hyper understanding to black men today, okay?” – Van [138:40]
    • “You only interrupted me every other sentence today and that makes me feel seen.” – Rachel [138:25]

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GUEST HIGHLIGHTS

Durand Bernarr

• Grammy-winning R&B artist known for his honesty, wit, and genre-bending style.
• Touches on the difficulty of staying authentic in the industry, and the responsibilities and vulnerability of succeeding as a queer Black artist.
• On community: “I am not in any position to govern anybody. What I happen to be is a solutionist that has a platform.”

Aida Rodriguez

• Comedian and social critic.
• Insightful breakdown of the gap between stand-up craft and viral “crowd-work” culture.
• Emphasizes respect for comedy as an art and discusses why honest stories from marginalized voices have never been more important or accessible.

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THEMES & INSIGHTS

• Violence, Security, and Political Manipulation: The shooting attempt fuels debates on real versus manufactured fears, distrust in politics, and orchestrated media messaging.
• Gender, Reputation, and Double Standards: Megan/Klay incident as prism for Black gender politics—how celebrity breakups become collective projections and battlefields for misogyny/defense.
• Celebrity as Stand-In for Community Wounds and Aspirations: Public pain and hope get channeled through high-profile figures, sometimes distorting the conversation.
• Stardom, Authenticity, and Survival: Durand Bernarr’s journey illustrates the painstaking, village-dependent path to Black musical success, and the desire to remain “human” in branding culture.
• Comedy and Cultural Change: Stand-up’s democratization via the Internet has upsides (new voices, exposure) and downsides (devaluing craft, losing nuance). Veteran comedians fight for art and context.

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FINAL THOUGHT

This episode encapsulates the way Black pop culture, gender dynamics, media, and art are all in dialogue, sometimes in tension, as they absorb and reflect the pressures of the moment. Van, Rachel, and their guests move deftly from wry banter to insight and critique—foregrounding humanity, solidarity, and the need to lift each other up, especially “when the ball is a Frisbee.”

Transcript

[Rachel Lindsay]

Foreign.

[Van Lathan]

Yo, yo, yo. Thought warriors. What is up? High learning is on. It's zy Van Lathan Jr. And it's

[Rachel Lindsay]

me, Rachel and Lindsey.

[Van Lathan]

Rachel. What's up?

[Rachel Lindsay]

You know, just struggling with allergies a

[Van Lathan]

little bit super bloom.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Super? Is that what it's called?

[Van Lathan]

Yeah. So apparently there's this phenomenon that's happened. It's a superbloom. It's worse than it used to be.

[Rachel Lindsay]

I thought the Santa Ana winds only hit like November, December, January. So whatever is happening now, I mean, I had to peel myself out of the bed this morning. I mean, I've just been like, I can't stop sneezing. Just took some medicine so, you know, some flonates. Let's hope I'm good.

[Van Lathan]

But do you use. What? I like nasal sprays now.

[Rachel Lindsay]

It's the best.

[Van Lathan]

I'm into it. What's the Sinex one? The Vicks Sinex one.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Oh, I haven't tried that one.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, Kalika gave it to me that.

[Rachel Lindsay]

I'll try that one next. I'm doing flonase. I went to never consistent with going to the doctor. I went to get checked on because remember the hoarseness? That was an issue. So I went to an ENT and she gave me a great nasal spray, but it's prescription based. I gotta go back to get some more, so. Yeah, yeah, yeah. How are you?

[Van Lathan]

I'm good. You know who's on the nasal sprays? Like crazy.

[Rachel Lindsay]

I didn't know that was a thing, but okay.

[Van Lathan]

Chris Ryan.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Who?

[Van Lathan]

Chris Ryan.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Oh, oh, this beef with Chris Ryan. I'm just kidding.

[Van Lathan]

The beef with CR is still up.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Oh, he's on the nasal sprays?

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, he's on the nasal sprays.

[Ada Rodriguez]

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[Van Lathan]

Focus features in Blumhouse Present Obsession.

[Rachel Lindsay]

When I have a crush on a guy no one knows.

[Van Lathan]

Be careful. I wish Nikki love me more than

[Duran Bernard]

anyone in the entire world.

[Van Lathan]

Who you wish for obsession is 96

[Duran Bernard]

fresh on rotten tomatoes.

[Rachel Lindsay]

I love you so so, so.

[Van Lathan]

It's blood soaked nightmare fuel, bro. Coca's bulletin. Butt on her.

[Duran Bernard]

You have been warned.

[Van Lathan]

Obsession.

[Duran Bernard]

We did our under 17 on a

[Van Lathan]

minute without parent only theaters May 15th with special engagements in Dolby. Crazy. I'm good, man. You came.

[Rachel Lindsay]

You were out of town.

[Van Lathan]

I was in D.C. i was in D.C. covering the White House correspondence dinner live on CNN when all of this stuff went down. Might as well start there.

[Ada Rodriguez]

Were you live?

[Van Lathan]

Live.

[Rachel Lindsay]

You know I don't like that you don't tell us what you do sometimes.

[Van Lathan]

Why?

[Rachel Lindsay]

Because we would like to support. Believe it or not, fan. We would like to support who gives a shit.

[Van Lathan]

Watch like don't spend your. Don't spend your Saturday night.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Well, I would just like to. I wouldn't watch the whole thing, but I would just like to check you out. You know what I mean? But live.

[Ada Rodriguez]

Okay. Wow.

[Van Lathan]

What a.

[Rachel Lindsay]

What a. What a time.

[Van Lathan]

Donnie. Yeah. Let's talk about it. A man with guns and knives stormed the lobby outside the White House Correspondent's Dinner, which was attended by President Donald Trump on Saturday night. The President was uninjured and rushed off stage.

[Ada Rodriguez]

The armed man, who was later id'd

[Van Lathan]

as Cole Thomas Allen, who officials said was a guest at the Washington Hilton, where the dinner was held, was taken into custody and is expected in court today, Monday. Now, Trump, that night and allies coalesced around a specific solution, around what happened and for presidential security in general. And we looked at all of the conditions that took place tonight. And I will say, you know, it's not a particularly secure building. And I didn't want to say this, but this is why we have to have all of the attributes of what we're planning at the White House. It's actually a larger room and it's much more secure. It's got. It's drone proof. It's bulletproof glass. We need the ballroom. That's why Secret Service, that's why the military are demanding it. They've wanted the ballroom for 150 years for lots of different reasons, but today is a little bit different because today. Cut them off. That's enough. That's enough. He used the. What happened to, you know, make the case for his ballroom? Everybody knows that by now. Everybody knows that. So we're on live. We had just finished.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Who were you with?

[Van Lathan]

It was me, John Laura Coates. John Berman. Laura Coates. Scott Jennings. Van Jones. Essie Cup. Right.

[Rachel Lindsay]

You were with Van Jones.

[Van Lathan]

Van Jones. Van and Van on the thing.

[Rachel Lindsay]

First time.

[Van Lathan]

No, not the first time.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Okay.

[Van Lathan]

All right. A couple of years before this, Van Jones and I had done it. Done the White House correspondence dinner together. Why? Why is that?

[Rachel Lindsay]

I mean, let's not act like we haven't talked a lot about Van Jones. I'll give him on this podcast. And just the fact that you constantly confused for him for the wrong. Like it's never good whenever you are mentioned in the same sentence as Van Jones. It's a mistake and it's never good for you. It's never positive.

[Van Lathan]

It happened again.

[Rachel Lindsay]

I know. And this time with my sis.

[Van Lathan]

I am shocked. I look right into this camera. Yvette Nicole Brown, who we love. How could I. I'm taken aback. How could you? How could you, Yvette Nicole Brown, you do the same thing, treat me the same way that everyone else has. I was surprised at you, by the way. Still up.

[Rachel Lindsay]

But did you see what she said?

[Van Lathan]

What did she say?

[Rachel Lindsay]

She said. She added you. And she said I will take this down. But she thought the call outs towards her were funny. See, I appreciate this.

[Van Lathan]

That's not what we.

[Rachel Lindsay]

And she said if you want me to take it down for you, I will. She added you and asked you.

[Van Lathan]

Okay.

[Rachel Lindsay]

I think it is down though. Cause it said post not available. I think it's down.

[Van Lathan]

So let's give her.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Let's give her some.

[Van Lathan]

The whole Van Lathan, the whole deal. Anyway. I can't believe you can't just.

[Rachel Lindsay]

It was so funny. I wrote. I said friend. Wrong one. It's this one. And I added him. Cause I wanted him to see it.

[Van Lathan]

Do you think that sometimes people do that on purpose to get out of it?

[Rachel Lindsay]

She did.

[Van Lathan]

Okay.

[Rachel Lindsay]

She definitely didn't. They were using the Abbott elementary thing. I don't know if you've seen it where Sherrily Ralph makes a mistake with two different names, but I thought it was funny. I love that she took it with grace and laughed at it too. Like everybody was coming at her. It was really funny. The jokes that they were making. And she was like, look, I'm sorry, my bad. She would never.

[Van Lathan]

This is credit I'll give to both Van Jones and Stephen A. Smith who I both saw during different times. At the weekend. During the weekend. Shall I say they seem to at least. Van Jones and I have had some phone conversations that were a little bit more contentious, but they seem to at least Take the criticism of them much better than I would take the criticism if I were them. Like, I saw Stephen A. Smith at the UTA party. We went back and forth for a second, and he just apparently lets it roll off his back. I mean, I'm sure there's, you have to. Some people that bother him a little bit more. He lets it roll off his back. It doesn't seem to affect some of the things that he says, but he lets it roll off his back. So that is true. I've never had a bad interaction in person with Van, as a matter of fact, after all of the stuff, because I left the CNN broadcast, like, I left it.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Why?

[Van Lathan]

When it turned into a breaking news show, I felt like I needed to leave.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Okay.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah. So, like, if we were gonna be talking about issues of the day or the dinner itself, things going on with the dinner, that's one thing. But when it came to. When it started to become a breaking

[Rachel Lindsay]

news show, like a reporting, it was more reporting.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah. And then they're talking about their colleagues who are there at the White House correspondents dinner. Se was clearly shaken by what was going on.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Yeah, I saw her response.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah. So, like, I'm like, yo, I hit production. I was like, I think I should leave. And honestly, it's kind of the same way I felt about the dinner itself, that I was glad they didn't come back. I felt like they should have left, so I left. But, yeah, and he, you know, after that happened, reached out. It was very, very sweet. Asked about me, talked about some of the things I had said before when I said that the country was sick. All of that stuff, how he felt like that was going to resonate with people. But for me to stay there, it would have seemed like performance in lieu of everything that was happening.

[Rachel Lindsay]

That's fair. Yeah, that's fair. But I do know, want to note, I mean, it's not surprising that Stephen A. Smith and Van Jones are cordial and polite to you when they see you. Because haven't we talked about that, having been in these rooms, that you see people be opinionated on whatever platform they have and hypercritical, and then when they get behind closed doors, they're super chummy, or they're at these parties and they're super chummy. I wouldn't expect anything else from them.

[Van Lathan]

I'm not assigning weakness to them saying, oh, when they keep it. No, I'm saying that, oh, I know, you, Honor. It doesn't seem to me from some of the things that we've said, maybe they don't know about them. It doesn't seem to me that they take them personally, which is probably for better or for worse why they've been so successful.

[Rachel Lindsay]

I think to do this job, to be in public, having a microphone, with opinions, you have to not take everything so personal. You have to let most things roll off your back and only pick your battles when necess. Otherwise you can't successfully do this. You'll go insane.

[Van Lathan]

Let me ask you something. Let's go back to what happened that night. Obviously, this is just another symptom of, like I said on cnn, a sickness that the country is infected with right now. It's interesting to watch people respond to this with such panic. It was interesting even in the room in CNN to watch people respond to this with such panic when all of America is dealing with this. If you go to the grocery store, if you go to school, if you go to the movie theater, if you go to a sporting event, wherever you go, the threat of violence, spree violence, targeted violence, terrorism is ever present with you. You send your kids to school, you can't be there with your children. Doesn't matter what type of school, elementary school, middle school, high school, college, wherever you send them to school, you legitimately give them to the violence that America is infected with right now. You just don't know. And it's now visited not just the president a couple of times before this, but this particular dinner where the press is, which is another group that's been the subject of all this scrutiny and really insulting type of rhetoric from Donald Trump. Okay. At first you didn't know whether or not this gunman was targeting Trump or whether or not he was targeting the press. You wouldn't know. You have no clue. Because the trust the press has been so vilified by the president. This particular incident, do you think this was real? When I say, like, I'm just like, whatever to people, but there are a lot of people who think that it's serendipitous, I guess that whenever Donald Trump seems to need to use violence as a mascot, that violence appears.

[Rachel Lindsay]

So I love that you were in D.C. because I think it shows two different perspectives of being so close to it. And you were there to talk about what was happening. Obviously, we didn't know this was gonna happen. But you were right there. You were right next to people who either normally ATT or know a lot of people that were in the room. So you saw a totally different reaction. If you were sitting at home or you were out and about, you didn't feel that most people didn't. Which goes to the point of you saying, do I think. Well, let me just say, as the days go by, I feel like I'm becoming more of a conspiracy theorist. And that could be for a number of reasons, and particularly with this thing. I think the reason I didn't feel so, I don't know, like, connected to what was happening is one. I mean, there's several things, right? We as a country are completely desensitized to gun violence. It just feels like not. It's only a matter of time before the next thing happens. It almost wasn't shocking that this happened at the White House Correspondents dinner. And if I felt like that, I would think that security would be heightened in a way to think like something like this could happen because it's the first time that Trump has attended as a sitting president because there were so many cabinet members and Trump officials there at this dinner than there normally are. Also, you know, it's this hodgepodge of not just journalists, of public figures, entertainment, sports. I mean, it's really a wild thing. If you go inside of it. I remember I've only been once. I just was taken aback about who all is in the room and how, you know, everybody's fanning over each other. It's just a. It's just a very interesting mix. So you would think with all of that that there would be heightened security. But number one, it goes to me being desensitized, I feel like. And as a nation, when it comes to gun violence. Second thing is it also just points to the reaction, I think of why, again, it wasn't so heightened watching it if you weren't. There is this major distrust, distrust from the Trump administration which leads to believing conspiracy theories. I mean, immediately when this happened, before he even talked, it was. He's. This because he's polling bad. Oh, this is a distraction from Iran. This is a distraction from Epstein. Oh, this is. You know, it feels like. And I guess the third thing would be that this is a pattern so the Trump administration can use this to talk about political violence and point to this being the Democrats fault. And it's their dangerous rhetoric and things that they put out there that lead to this. So all these things were happening that are going through your mind. And then President Trump speaks and he says, I mean, I wasn't gonna say this, the ballroom. And immediately what you see are all these MAGA influencers getting in a coordinated effort. What it seemed seem like of talking about this is why we need the Ballroom. This is why we need the ballroom. When the reality is this isn't something, this isn't a White House event. So that doesn't even make any sense. This isn't something that would be a part of the ballroom. But yeah, I don't want to say that it was staged, but the more I look into it and all the things that are around it, it feels like it was a possibility that maybe they had some kind of information that somebody would do something. And there seemed to be a lack of security. More like Simone Sanders talked about it too when she came up. More than you would normally see at this event. There seemed to be, it seemed to be a little bit more lax to maybe allow something like this if it could happen and stop it before it became too dangerous so they could use to further whatever narrative or project that they wanted to happen. That's what it feels like to me.

[Van Lathan]

Look, I'm here like you say, well said. I'm here for every conspiracy theory at this point. It is what it is. I think the thing that's not a conspiracy is the epidemic of violence that we're seeing and people either snapping or thinking that this is a way to achieve something or get something done in this particular situation. This guy Cole Thomas Allen was. Or Tomas or Thomas. He was brilliant. He's brilliant like Caltech, like super. And you think that for someone that was seeking to do something that was tactical, that he'd realized that, number one, he wasn't going to be able to get in and kill the President. That room was too secure. They caught him outside of the room. And number two, that they would use this like all of the. They would use this. They would use this to say that we need more security. We need what we want. We need the ballroom. We need to whatever, to clamp down or whatever. They would take this and they would use it politically. But it seems like whoever this was that he snapped, the people out there that jumped to the fact that this was some kind of stage false flag event, we don't want to do that without having a whole lot of evidence that it is. We want to be careful about that because then everything will become that. One thing that is not a staged false flag event is the breathtaking coordination in which the right, particularly the maga, right, responded to this. Ashley Sinclair collated all of the tweets that said, hey, this is why we need the ballroom. Hey, this is why we need the ballroom. Hey, this is why we need the ballroom. Now some people are going to look at that and they're going to say, well, they were ready with their talking points because they set this thing up and they knew how they wanted to spin it. Even if that's not true, there seems to be, and I feel like we all know this, a brain trust that tells all these people what to say. There's two ways to look at that. One way to look at that is. That's chilling because you're not getting. First of all, it's not fucking chilling. We all know that, right? We all know that the talking points are going out. Like, we all know that the way that that works. But for a lot of people that might not be, you know, might think that every time they engage with someone that they're getting their actual thoughts. Now, you can see that there is a set of talking points on the right, and they adhere to these talking points. Okay, cool. The question for you that I have is people look at that and they go, oh, these people are bought. They're all together, whatever. Should that exist on the left? Should that exist on the left to where there is this sort of. Not on my left, because it never could, because my ideas wouldn't be the ones that people want to throw out there. But should the center left, which is in the power struggle with the other team, should they have this type of coordination?

[Rachel Lindsay]

No, I just don't. I mean, I'm critical of that. I want to feel like that people have genuine thoughts, that they're authentic in the things that they're saying and they're using their platforms for. And I don't want to get to the point where I'm desensitized about opinions or things that people are saying, period. Right. Like, I saw that. I was like, oh, of course they did that. And I kept it moving. I don't think that that's influential in any way. Maybe. Maybe to some people, but we can look at it, we can tear it apart and say, like, that is obviously something that was structured, like, constructed by the right. I don't want to do that. That's not the tit for tat that I want to go to. I want to be strategic. I want to be calculated, and I want it to be efficient and effective in moving things that I would like to see done by the government. That is not the way that I want to do it.

[Van Lathan]

That's just me. And of course, you guys know that. I don't think that the White House correspondence dinner should be held at the White House because I think that the press should be separated from.

[Rachel Lindsay]

I don't think it ever would be.

[Van Lathan]

I don't think it ever would be either. So to say that we have to have it at the White House now, what we actually have to do is deal with the political animus that exists in this country, the mental health crisis, the access to guns, all of those things. I'm not going to say this for the podcast before I get out of here, but I want to show you a picture.

[Rachel Lindsay]

You're showing me. Who is that?

[Van Lathan]

That's.

[Rachel Lindsay]

This is. Because this is family, okay?

[Van Lathan]

Yeah,

[Rachel Lindsay]

man. Okay, but where's the mom? That woman looks old. I think that's a grandmother. The mom is in the black, right?

[Van Lathan]

No, I think that's one of his sisters.

[Rachel Lindsay]

That's a grandmother.

[Van Lathan]

I'm saying, even if it's happening, they're making their play. Okay, we're gonna take. We're gonna take.

[Rachel Lindsay]

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[Van Lathan]

Take a break real quick. We just. We just finished a fantastic interview with Duran Bernard, which we'll have for you guys later on in the show.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Yes.

[Van Lathan]

And we talk a little bit about our next topic, which everyone is talking about.

[Rachel Lindsay]

I know.

[Van Lathan]

The end of the relationship between Klay Thompson and Omegan thee Stallion and Klay Thompson.

[Duran Bernard]

Donnie.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah. She posted about the end of the relationship on Instagram over the weekend. She said cheating had me around your whole family playing house. Got cold feet holding you down through all your horrible all caps, mood swings and treatment towards me during your basketball season. Now you don't know if you can be monogamous. A whole bunch of question marks. I really need a real break after

[Ada Rodriguez]

this one by all.

[Van Lathan]

And this has plunged us into the depths of the gender wars. Have you guys been seeing it?

[Duran Bernard]

The.

[Van Lathan]

The younger generation, Our Z's over here, The. The Z corner. This is going to be called the Z corner. The Z corner. This is the Z corner. Bernard, you're in it.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Jade. It's the Z corner.

[Van Lathan]

That's the Z corner. The Z corner. Have you guys been seeing this? Is this. Is this as big a deal in the. In. In the land of Z. Yes. It's a pretty big deal. Yeah, it's a pretty big deal. It's a pretty big deal. Gender wars have popped off with everyone saying that this is indicative of what black women are going through right now.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Hmm. What does the Z corner have to say about it? Jay, do you think that this is indicative of what black women are going through? Are you surprised that the reaction has been so big?

[Ada Rodriguez]

Women are tired, okay?

[Rachel Lindsay]

We're tired enough. Meg's been through a lot, okay? And I think we were all rooting for this relationship.

[Ada Rodriguez]

We all took on the.

[Rachel Lindsay]

We all took an open mind to this relationship. You know what I mean?

[Van Lathan]

Say more about open mind.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Well, I think people, specifically women who are fans of Megan and who support Megan Thee Stallion, they know her roster, her track record with men. And I think a lot of people were not fans of the people she was with. And I think with Clay, it was. I don't know. I think there was a different mindset going in for a lot of people in support of this relationship rather than other people she's been with in the past. I also think she had gone on a healing journey herself that put her in this place, that kind of allowed her fans and supporters to feel like she's coming into this new era of herself. So with Clay, that is bringing on. I don't know, it just was kind of alignment, right timing. But to say the least,

[Ada Rodriguez]

this was shocking.

[Rachel Lindsay]

And I think everyone is deciding to partake in those feelings. So, you know, do what you will. Do you know that Klay Thompson is a notorious cheater?

[Ada Rodriguez]

Yeah, I didn't.

[Duran Bernard]

I'm not really.

[Rachel Lindsay]

I don't really know Klay Thompson.

[Van Lathan]

Liked him.

[Rachel Lindsay]

I mean, you did, of course.

[Van Lathan]

I mean, not really really.

[Rachel Lindsay]

I mean, his girlfriend, she's a white girl famous on the Internet, this is years ago, outed him big time about how he was cheating on her. I think it was rumored that he was cheating on Laura Harrier and Coco Jones. So there is a reputation that precedes Klay Thompson about cheating. So I'm not surprised that there are allegations of cheating on Klay Thompson. When I heard what I'm. I'm not surprised that people have a big reaction because these are two big stars. I'm not surprised also, that they have a big reaction because we were privy to a lot of their personal life. We knew about a house, we knew they're making videos together. We. We saw them, you know, just a lot of content that they were doing online together. Um, so it seems like that they were in it for the long haul. It felt like she was in Dallas more often. It felt like. Which is where he plays. You saw them spending holidays together. They seem to be making memories together, creating milestones. So I can see the shock. I think that Meg is very beloved, particularly with black women, and people were rooting for her happiness. After all the drama that came out with Tory Lanez and her having to go through trial and the way that. That she was attacked a lot online, despite her being the one who was shot. So people wanted the best. The hopes were really high. You also. I feel like there's a lot of talk which we can get into about Megan and her past and rumors that are out there that I feel like are very unfair anytime that Meg has brought into the situation. And what we saw from Meg in this relationship, at least what was presented to us on social media, was a vulnerability, a femininity, a softness, very much so. Stepping into a place of, like, how do I care and provide and show up for my man. I mean, she did a whole fucking song about it. And so I think that to then find out that that was taken advantage of, you know, according to her, we don't know if these allegations are true or not, but that she was disrespected and embarrassed and kind of shamed in such a public, you know, are upset. Who are Big Meg's supporters, and rightfully so.

[Van Lathan]

What rumors about Meg have come out?

[Rachel Lindsay]

Well, consciously we talk about him during a conversation with Duran. He did a whole video on it. There's this image that's put up, and it's very, very crude. And it's Meg thee stallion. And she's in a compromise position. And she's been over. And there are a line of men that are alleged to have been with her or were with her, lining up behind her, like, who's next in line? It's very degrading. And I think that that is one of the negative things out there about Meg. And despite her saying, hey, you know, this happened. He did this to me. She says it's gonna take a while for her to get over. She's obviously struggling over it. The video's coming out with her on stage at her Broadway performance. She's clearly still upset about it. She gets online to tell people she's upset about it, and then you have stuff like that circulating.

[Van Lathan]

Interesting.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Why?

[Van Lathan]

Well, because we just talked about rumors about Klay Thompson.

[Rachel Lindsay]

I don't know how much of that is a rumor. Well, the one girl, flat out, I don't even Think he denied it? The one, the first girlfriend. I'm talking about this. The influencer, right? Flat out. That's not a rumor.

[Van Lathan]

Well, no, it's a. It's something that somebody said about him. That it's all rumors in innuendo till, you know, like it's.

[Duran Bernard]

It.

[Van Lathan]

Hold on for a second. I don't give a fuck about how Klay Thompson is, is, is perceived in any way that I don't in any way, shape or form. Let me be clear. But I'm saying it's all rumor. Like, it's all rumor. All of it is rumor.

[Rachel Lindsay]

You might be right. Not might be right. I'm talking about two rumors. Fine. But the ones, the reaction people have to those rumors, the rumors related to Meg and the rumors related to Clay are different. And there are levels to rumors.

[Van Lathan]

How are they different?

[Rachel Lindsay]

Okay, so Clay, I said the reaction that people have, I said, Clay is known to be a notorious cheater. I'm not shocked that he cheated. That's all I said. I did not talk about him being. That image is a negative image. That image relates to calling her because she might have let like, dated other people that she was bent over for basically men in the industry that she was getting, like, that is a negative connotation. I said he girlfriends have accused him of cheating, right? I didn't talk about necessarily, oh, he's a bad man. Like, he can never be trusted. He's a bad. Like, I didn't get into all the negative connotations that come to cheating. I just said these girlfriends have accused him of cheating. He is notoriously known as a cheater. That picture is so much more than just a rumor. It plays into stereotypes. It is meant to make her look a certain way. That I don't think holds the same weight when I say, oh, he's got girlfriends that have accused him of cheating. So I'm not talking about the particular woman he's cheated with, he's cheated on. I'm not talking about who he goes after. I'm not talking about the type of women he's disrespecting. I'm not layering it. I'm just talking about one thing. That picture is layered.

[Van Lathan]

Okay, so that picture is an indictment, right?

[Rachel Lindsay]

Sure.

[Van Lathan]

What you're saying, the picture is an indictment. I agree. Like, you guys all know, I don't give a fuck who you fuck, how many people you fuck, how you fuck em, any of that stuff, right? Do not care. Obviously the identification of somebody as a serial cheater is a negative thing. Obvious that's an obvious thing. We all know that it's a negative thing. It may be true, but it is also a negative thing. This is how he is. This is who he is. He's inconsiderate. He has self control issues. He is this. That which didn't stick to him before for whatever reason is probably going to stick to him now.

[Rachel Lindsay]

It won't.

[Van Lathan]

Well, it will because it won't stick to him. It won't affect him. Okay, okay. But it won't affect him because these things that we talk about don't really affect anyone, which is my point. My point is they affect us more than they affect any of the people that we're talking about.

[Rachel Lindsay]

So you think the picture that I'm talking about doesn't affect Megan?

[Van Lathan]

What picture that you're talking about?

[Rachel Lindsay]

The picture I just described that shows her in a compromising position and she's. And there are men lined up waiting for their turn. You don't think that that affects her?

[Van Lathan]

No, I'm sure it emotionally affects her.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Okay, okay, okay.

[Van Lathan]

But if Megan Thee stallion wants to date like another guy in the NBA, or if Megan Thee stallion wants to date a rapper or NBA player, See, the thing that would happen in your. Whatever, that's not gonna affect her. And if, and hold on. And if Klay Thompson wants to after this date the next hot model or whatever, whatever, it's not gonna affect him.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Okay, can I, can I push? I'll let you finish if you want more to say. But I have to push back on that. Yeah, yeah, it will affect her because Klay Thompson being a cheater as a basketball player, who's well known, who's made nine figures in the league, who has rings, who has all of that right, who people find attractive, it is not going to affect him. A woman who wants to date him will look past that for some of the things that I said. It won't impact him negatively in the same way Meg doesn't necessarily want to just date someone. Let me go back to Clay. It won't affect him. Not just he'll get to date them, they'll also want to be with him long term. Most women. That is not how Meghan will be looked at when those stereotypes are placed on her. Of course Meg is a beautiful woman from head to toe. Of course it will not affect her in the fact that men want to date her, men want to be with her, but it will impact the way because men and women are perceived differently and certain things that are applied to one gender aren't the other, it will impact her as. As if someone wants to wife her, which is what she ultimately wants, which is why that picture exists for her and doesn't exist for him. If Meg. Meg could date anybody she wants to. You are so right. Beautiful, talented, funny, all those things. But if she wants more than that, I'm not saying she can't find it, but that impacts her.

[Van Lathan]

Now, there are two re. Two ways I can go here.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Okay?

[Van Lathan]

One, just off the top of my head, I can run down a list of women that have quote, unquote reputations that get married and get into long term relationships.

[Rachel Lindsay]

I didn't say she can't get married.

[Van Lathan]

That is what you said.

[Rachel Lindsay]

I said it's gonna be harder for her.

[Van Lathan]

I don't think so. Okay, number one, and all of this is cosmetic. It really doesn't matter. I don't think so. I think that there's an unfair perception of her. And I acknowledge that. And that perception of her to a lot of men, particularly loud niggas on Twitter and other places like that, is going to be something that her and her fans are going to fight against. Right. I don't think there are millions of men, legitimately millions, that would cut their fingers off not only to be with Meg thee stallion, but to have Meg thee stallion be their wife. There are men who would change their entire life, their whole life.

[Rachel Lindsay]

What kind of men are we talking about?

[Van Lathan]

That is the key. The key is some of the men that might do that might not be men that she wants to do it with.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Right.

[Van Lathan]

Some of the men that might be that way might not be men that she thinks is worth that. And that's okay. That right there is legitimately. That's a calculation that everyone has to make. Right? That's a calculation. If you're telling me it's easier for Klay Thompson to exist as a quote, unquote, promiscuous man than it is for Meg the stallion to exist as a quote, unquote promiscuous woman. That is obviously true.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Yeah, he doesn't have to worry about that. He'll get the woman he wants.

[Van Lathan]

Well, I'll tell you this. There is something that Klay Thompson is going to have to worry about now, which is the fact that a large contingent of black women hate him. And he might not care about that. He might not have to care about that. There's going to be someone that's gonna go with the pretty, the good looking athlete. The competition is that high. I'm saying in the case that you're Making right now. It's really the same for her too. Now, I'm not with me saying I could go through a list of women legitimately, a list of women, women that have dated multiple rappers, women had like that they're going to get married. Like, it's. If they want to, they're going to get married. It's that type of thing is by and large like with the cohort of people that we're talking about. Not with the average. Not with the average people that people living their lives with. The cohort of people that we're talking about, that's by and large, that's over. Like, that's done. Like that thing to where someone puts a scarlet letter on you and then for women like this, and then you are undesirable and no one is gonna touch you, no one is gonna marry you because you've been in this crew. Cause you've been with that crew. That doesn't happen anymore.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Does it change your mind at all? If I'm not saying you're wrong in that sense, My thought is the women that you're talking about who maybe have dated multiple people in the industry, they're not as Megan. It's not out there as much to where when the public sees like now maybe people in the business might be like, oh, yeah, like I know her. She used to date this person or this person, this person. But when they step out, the public isn't, oh, that's so. And so. She did this, this and this. I'm saying Megan has a bigger platform. She's bigger public figure. So I just feel like I'm. I'm not saying. I just feel like the problem is, like, I'm not saying this right.

[Van Lathan]

The problem is value. The only way for me to do this would be to name names.

[Rachel Lindsay]

And I'm not asking.

[Van Lathan]

And that's unfair to those women. But what I'm saying is all of this stuff, the reason why that picture is to me a disgusting picture. It's not because that picture in any way is going to affect Megan Thee stallion's prospects with men going forward. I just don't believe that. That's not the reason why that. That picture is a disgusting picture to me. Not because of Meg Thee stallion, a woman who has fame and power and money and who's gorgeous. That picture to me is disgusting because of what it means for women who aren't Meg Thee stallion. What it means for women who might be perceived as promiscuous or whatever that are in a pool of men wherever they are in their towns or whatever that have to go up against those types of mindsets and ideas. It's an ugly, disgusting way to look at someone based upon the decisions that they make with their body, whether they made them or whether or not they didn't make them. Which is the reason why I am anti calling people birds, bops, hoes, sluts. The reason why all of that stuff that is widely accepted on one hand, and then on the other hand when the wrong person does it is looked at as super disgusting. It's all bad. Because what it all does is reinforce the idea that somebody's behavior in terms of what they choose to do with their body should be factored into not just a desirability scale, but into a scale of their humanity. You're less human if you have sex with a lot of people. You're less human if it's perceived that you like sex. Particularly when you're a woman. You're less of a human. You're supposed supposed to be more than that. You're supposed to be better than something else. I we had, we've had conversations for years on this podcast and when we have them is like, we come back to the fact that like, either they're, I don't have a standard or I don't have any of this stuff. It's like, hey, I'm listening to you guys. You shouldn't refer to women like that, shouldn't call them hoes, shouldn't call them birds, shouldn't call them bops, shouldn't call them doing all of that. You shouldn't like critique their behavior in a way that is not that men aren't critiqued because once again, I'm not talking about Victoria's Secret models or beautiful, rare, once in a lifetime rappers. They are actually not going to be affected by this. They're not like the people that I'm sure Meg is affected emotionally.

[Rachel Lindsay]

I'm sure that I want to be clear about that.

[Van Lathan]

What I mean is, I'm talking about specifically in the way that it's been like. I'm sure that that's a terrible thing emotionally. And the fact that there are so many men that are eager for her to suffer, that's a terrible thing emotionally. I'm sure that's terrible. But to me, when we're talking about this stuff, we're using celebrities and people as mascots for the hurt that we feel for how we look at things, how vulnerable we feel, how unseen or overlooked we feel. And I think that that is understandable because we do it all the time. But I also think that a lot of times it's useless. It's useless. And at my most cynical, this has nothing to do with Meg. This has nothing to do with Clay. At my most cynical, because of where I come from, I know that sometimes it's intentional. I know that sometimes I'm not talking about specifically this situation. Sometimes your breakup, your. The birth of your child, your divorce, your whatever. Sometimes that stuff is part of very cynical and deliberate pr. Stuff that is used to incite a bunch of people that might love you, that is used to incite a bunch of people to make them pick sides, to make things more favorable to you, to make all of that stuff. I have no evidence as that's happening right now. But what I'm saying is, when I look all of this stuff. Look at all of this stuff that's happening, whatever. Whatever it is going back and forth, I don't know how he'll respond to this, because there's not even a lot of information that's out about it. I don't know. I don't know how he'll respond. He'll have to say something. He'll have to say something. So I don't know how he'll respond to this. But what I do know is I personally understand where this is coming from. I do not think that this is useful for people. And I think that. I don't think that people should be this invested.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Well, yeah, I mean, I don't think people should be this invested. Even though I went through explaining I know why they are that invested. I don't think you should be comparing it to your point yourself, to people. One, that you don't know any relationship. Like, I can tell you every single thing that broke down in my marriage, and you still don't know. I still can't tell you everything. Right. You weren't in it. You don't know and experience it. You can't compare yourself to every single thing. So that's just in general, that's whether you're reading a random story on social media of somebody you don't know or whether somebody's a celebrity. So that's that. That's that. I forgot my second point now. But, like, yeah, I mean, I just don't think that. I don't think it's useful in that way. But I understand. I understand how people feel upset, particularly women, particularly black women, because it's not just, oh, Clay allegedly did Megan wrong. It's the reaction from that, you see, from certain men on social Media who are using it as an opportunity to bring a woman down, that becomes upsetting. It's the reaction of. Maybe you don't know, Meg, but you know what it's like to be in a relationship where you feel like you gave your all or you were more vulnerable than ever, or you were more soft, you opened yourself up, and then it doesn't end the way that you want it to. I think that's triggering to people. I don't think you have to know somebody to see that and maybe feel that. It's kind of like when people talk about too, like, the nice guy, right? Like, the nice guy gets done wrong by a woman so many times, and then maybe it hardens them and changes them. That's all. That's you. Someone could look at this situation, be like, man, she did this. She did this. She did all these things that people maybe said she wasn't like, you could see how that could impact her and be. She could be totally different. She could have a negative opinion when it comes to men. Maybe somebody relates to that. So I understand the social media conversation of it all. I just don't understand getting, like, enraged or upset or being degrading or wanting to shame someone or even wanting to devalue a person based off of shit you do not know.

[Van Lathan]

The nice guy thing is bullshit.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Okay?

[Van Lathan]

Like, so there have been several interviews over the last couple of weeks where prominent women have come out and gone, I wish that I would have given the nice guy a chance early on.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Yeah. Who do we talk about?

[Van Lathan]

It's a couple of different women that have said this, right? I wish I would have given the nice guy a chance early on if the nice guy would have been able to. Like, I wish that I would have been able to do that. Right? And a whole bunch of people take that and then they run with it as an excuse to be hard on hoes.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Yeah, no, I, like, that's what they do.

[Van Lathan]

They take that and they use it as an excuse.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Or I don't date this type of person anymore because they did this to me. Same thing. Same thing.

[Van Lathan]

Or. Or this is the type of fodder, like, when women are talking about that. And I can't tell you, I can't tell you, I can't speak to the authenticity of those feelings about whether or not nice guys are not attractive and desirable to women. Whether or not women need somebody that's a little bit more of a leader or alpha or whatever. But all of those ideas about nice guys, which are basically ideas about, like, decency and patience. And like men who aren't like, super domineering. Those ideas are then taken by the manosphere guys like Andrew Tate and the rest of them. And they say, look, they're telling you this is what they're telling you. They're telling you that what you're doing flowers and candy bullshit, like, they're telling you it's not good enough. What they're telling you is that you need to go to the gym, you need to become a hyper toxic alpha male, you need to be abusive, you need to be borderline maniacal about yourself, and then that will make you desirable to women. I don't know if that's true or not. I know a lot of nice guys who are successful in doing just fine. So I don't think that it's true. But I'm saying all of this stuff, when it's talked about in these constructs, it just makes it really easy to take it, then bastardize it and move it to whatever you want it to be and translate it the way you want it to be. Let me be clear. I don't think any of that's happening right now. And I think a lot of this has to do with timing. A lot of this has to do with the fact that this is coming on the back of black women feeling particularly attacked by stories that they've seen in the media and about. Because I've talked to a lot of people about this, I wanted to know why this was so uniquely triggering. And there is like a kinship that women feel with Meg because of how she lost her parents, because of the fact that she was the victim of this terrible crime and then she was made the villain in that terrible crime. There. To me, Meg reminds me of Shador Sanders. Okay, there's a. Let me tell you what I mean by this. There is a way that black men feel about Shadour Sanders that I have not been able to really understand. Like, I haven't been able to understand why this particular athlete gets so many people animated like they are in for him. Remember, I've joked about it before. Shador Sanders is the civil rights issue of our times and everything. That's. He'll go out there, he'll. He'll play in a certain way, and people will be like, is he being put in the best, best position to succeed? Then I thought for a second, what I thought about was the fact that, like, for a lot of brothers, for a lot of black men, that is their dream scenario. Their dream scenario is to be in a position where they have had this amazing, hyper involved, like, close, close father. A father who will not let you fail. Whatever you do, this father will not let you fail. And he has the power to make certain that you have everything that you need to be good looking, to be confident, to be all of these things. They feel like for a lot of brothers, they feel like the existence of Shador Sanders as a black man is peak existence. And in order for their idea of how they want to be to like, be real, that he has to succeed. And not only that, but purposefully, people will try to make him not succeed. They'll try to ensure his failure because of all of these things that are culturally true to them. They need that to work. They need Deion's boy, a guy who they would love to be their dad, a guy who they would love to be around. They would love. They need Deion's boy. They need him to succeed. They feel like him. They would want to be him. With Meg, it's a little different, but I do feel like she has become, for a lot of people, just a flashpoint of how black ladies are treated, of how black women are treated. It feels like that there's no one who she can rely on. Her parents are gone. She even tried to protect Tory at first. She didn't. And then she was made the villain in that situation. And the end of it just becomes, who is going to take care of Megan?

[Rachel Lindsay]

Yeah, yeah.

[Van Lathan]

Like, who is going to take care of Megan? Thee stallion. Like, is there anybody out there that is going to be like, you know what? You've been through so much. I'm going to make sure that I'm gonna provide a safe place for you to exist. I get it. I totally understand it. I do get it. And while all of these things are true, I also honestly and truly would caution people. Like, seriously, coming from where I come from, from caution people from being over invested.

[Rachel Lindsay]

I mean, they do it with all celebrities, all their favorite celebrities.

[Van Lathan]

Just caution people. Because at the core of is different because these issues are life or death issues for black women. I understand that. But at the core of it, this is the reason why we can't have a conversation about Jay Z and capitalism. This is the reason why we can't have a conversation about sexual abuse with some of these people. People because they are made into more than people. They're made into mascots for culture or for a cohort of individuals or for issues or for an issue. So in this, like, I want the best for her, like, but I want the best for Us. And there has just been a lot of fighting over this. And I feel like getting into. I don't know, man. I just feel like I'm not so sure that all of this is worth this because some nigga who you say I didn't know who is a serial cheater cheated on another lady. Is this a conversation that comes back to black men not being able to protect black women to you?

[Rachel Lindsay]

I think some people will take that away. I'm like, I'm not going to get into that extreme of it, especially knowing what is allegedly rumored about him, like, it seems to be, you know, an alleged MO. I'm not gonna take this situation down to this is another thing of black men not protecting black women. Then I'm just as problematic as some of these people in corners of the Internet. But I understand, in particular for the way you just laid out so greatly, why people are so wanting to wrap their arms around Megan and making it that issue because they want that for her. But I'm not gonna take this incident and say, see, this is another example of black men not protecting black women.

[Van Lathan]

Do you feel. Do you see a connection. Do you see a connection between the lack of protection that Meg had in her relationship and the lack of protection that.

[Rachel Lindsay]

But

[Van Lathan]

black women in the Justin Fairfax situation or in the Shreveport situation, Is there a corollary there to you with Megyn Clay? Yeah.

[Rachel Lindsay]

No.

[Van Lathan]

You do realize that is an argument that is being had.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Again, I said, I'm not gonna make it that extreme for me. I already laid out my point of what upset me in the conversation surrounding Meghan. I'm more upset that people take this as an opportunity to degrade women, black women in particular, to devalue them, to shame them, to embarrass them, to just like. As an excuse to get that off? Because that is what you already feel. For whatever reason, that upsets me more. I'm not looking at what Clay did to Megan. We don't know enough. I can't do that. But I don't like what's being alleged. But I can't make that. Compare that to femicide, which is what I believe Justin Fairfax committed. And for the man in Shreveport, Sorry, I don't know his name. I can't compare that. I think that Justin Fairfax hates women. I think that there's a history of violence towards women in particular to him. I can't compare that to Clay with what's happening now. Do I think there was a disrespect of Meghan, who was a black woman Absolutely. If what is alleged to be what Meghan is saying is true. Absolutely. But it does not equate to femicide.

[Van Lathan]

Last question. Everybody can answer this. Does the disrespect of a black woman reflect the disrespect of black women?

[Rachel Lindsay]

That it can. It can. But again, then I would be a hypocrite, as we have. We have this conversation of. You can't make that person's issue, particularly your issue. Again, I understand the lore surrounding Meg. I think when you broke down the Shador part. Example or comparison, that makes a lot of sense for various reasons. But I think every. It's subjective. Every single thing is different. I can't. I can't say that. I can't generalize to that.

[Van Lathan]

Like, what do you. What do y' all think? I feel like, as humans, we shouldn't have icons as big as that to decipher what we feel. I feel like everybody else go through different situations, but we see similarities. But we can't just say, oh, because this person go through that. That represents the whole culture thing. I think we talked about this on the podcast about how music is the dude. What's that? What's the African dude's name that we did. He was the. He was alleged for children. He was. He was, like, a pedophile for children, but. Oh, Jesus Christ.

[Duran Bernard]

Shabu.

[Van Lathan]

What's his name? We had him. We was talking about him on a show. He's a pedophile for children. No, he was a. He represented, like, the becoming of music. And we was talking about him and how he was an icon.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Oh, he's talking about Africa.

[Van Lathan]

Oh, African bambada. Yeah, African babada. There we go. African bombada. Like, Africa bombada. The fuck? Like, what the. I couldn't think of his name. Get your shit together. Gotta think of his name. Get off the mic.

[Rachel Lindsay]

He didn't know who he was before.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Jay, can you repeat the question, please?

[Van Lathan]

Never mind. Fuck. No, like, no, I'm saying, do you feel like disrespect to one woman, to one man is disrespectful to all women or all men? It certainly can't be.

[Rachel Lindsay]

I think it can be, but I don't think that's, like, all inclusive. You know what I mean? Like, we can't do that. I'm just saying you can't be like that. You can't be, like, one. Okay, so one man. It's just an extreme woman. Then all black. Like, you can't. It's subjective. It's to each like, this is a particular situation. I'm not taking this and be like, see, literally. This is not the conversation I had with my black friends, women friends. We didn't say, like, opsy. That all black men are like this. You just can't do that.

[Van Lathan]

No, no, no, no. I don't even give a fuck about that. Like, it's not.

[Rachel Lindsay]

But this. This means that black men disrespect black men.

[Van Lathan]

No, no, no. I don't even. Like, I don't. The black men part of it is not necessarily even what I'm talking about. Like, what I'm talking about is because that is just the way that we talk. We talk in these generalities and we talk about this stuff in this way. And, like, that is what it is. I'm not going back down that road. What I'm basically saying is, is. Is this fair to be used as a part of? Okay,

[Rachel Lindsay]

it's generalizing. This is not the Justin Fairfax thing. I almost find it disrespectful to compare the two, if you really want me to be honest.

[Van Lathan]

Well, I do think I see the genesis of the point. I see the framework of the point.

[Rachel Lindsay]

It's a disrespect to a black woman.

[Van Lathan]

That's a protection of black women and an understanding of what black women go through, particularly in situations like this.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Of course. But to compare it to those violent situations. I get it. That's what I said. I get the disrespect part. I get the protection part. I just. I think that we're missing some steps if you go to that. That was also obviously disrespectful, but that was also violent. Hate, whatever. But I don't think we should dismiss the conversation. I think there are ways to talk about it, but from what I've seen on the Internet, I've seen a lot of it go a little too far. And when it goes too far, then you lose the meat of it. You lose the point. And then it can't be an effective conversation that actually has some kind of influence or, you know, you. I can't say it will change everybody, but at least it can be meaningful and, you know, maybe influence some people. When you go too far and extreme, you lose the plot.

[Van Lathan]

Okay, we gotta get off this. We gotta get serious before we get outta here. I will say this, though. I want to make sure that everybody understands. I'm not comparing the grotesque, terrible things that Meg has gone through in her life to Shador. Say this. I'm talking. I was talking about the reasons why I think People identify, rally around them. I thought it was a good point. Okay, I missed this. We have a. We have a. We're about to play. We're gonna play a game.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Oh, I mean, I just had some

[Duran Bernard]

random questions if we wanted to do.

[Van Lathan]

Oh, I'm with that.

[Rachel Lindsay]

I told you. I was like, he's gonna love this.

[Duran Bernard]

We have some that are intimacy based. We have some that for relationship.

[Rachel Lindsay]

No, no. Intimacy for sure.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Rachel Lindsay]

This is our sex. Like, we. We sex talk. Every.

[Van Lathan]

You're hearing. We sex talk. Cause you guys be. To qualify that I knew Van was up there. Sex talking. Sex talking. Racial. That the man that you're seeing and the voice that you're hearing is Duran Bernard. Singer, songwriter.

[Duran Bernard]

Yes, sir. Comedian.

[Van Lathan]

Comedian. Give.

[Duran Bernard]

Give him all the super man. Okay, so singer, songwriter, producer, arranger, dj. Dj. Unlicensed life coach. Actor, Actor. Okay.

[Van Lathan]

What's one that you want to add to that? Author. Author, Absolutely.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Would it be your story or.

[Duran Bernard]

Yes.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Okay. Okay. I'm actually. Yeah. I'm surprised you have an art. Are you working on that now?

[Duran Bernard]

I have about 10 to 15 different documents of chapters. There's ideas that are just isolated stories that I feel are things that kind of shaped where I am in my thought process. So those are things like, my dad has a chapter. My mom has a chapter. My experience with my coming to my, you know, discovery with my sexuality has its own chapter. My relationship with fear. My relationship with fear, My relationship with love. Like, all those things kind of. So I'm just trying to figure out, like, where kind of flows.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Book of essays, easiest thing, easiest thing to do. You know, that's interesting, because I feel like people. You call yourself everybody's favorite cousin on the dad side.

[Duran Bernard]

Is that what it is on the dad side?

[Rachel Lindsay]

But you do feel like that, and people feel so connected to you. I would also think that they think that they know so much about you, but you still have so much to say.

[Duran Bernard]

Yeah, yeah, I. It's one of those things where you don't realize that I have turned a pocket of my personality into a brand. And so now that is expected. You know, people will often think something's wrong because I'm not bouncing off the wall sometimes. And it's like, y' all, chill. I'm high. Leave me alone. You know what I'm saying?

[Van Lathan]

Human being.

[Duran Bernard]

You know what I'm saying? I'm just. I'm over here chilling, you know, especially if I come through the spot, you know, hoodie up, hat up. Like, I can't not be noticed. You know, it really Depends. But, you know, it's like, let me be invisible if I can. You know what I'm saying? Be chill. And, you know, I used to feel like at one point, you know, my fans were like, we was on some cool shit, you know, and. And I think there's a certain level of people that can know that something is. Someone is amazing and still have. They can still view them as a human being. And then when you get outside of your village and, you know, people that have been rocking since the very beginning and now the masses know it's a little different. It's a major tug and pull. And I'm really trying to allocate for these moments of being able to rest and be still. Cause so much is happening, and it's like I don't even know whether I'm coming or going. I'm just trying to figure out if I ate.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Yeah, I was gonna say, are you exhausted?

[Duran Bernard]

At least I get a nap in. I can get my naps in. So that's what's been helping.

[Van Lathan]

It's interesting about what you're talking about. The question I was gonna ask you with, the first question I was gonna hit you with is you're in your season, and being in your season is a really serious thing for a black performer.

[Duran Bernard]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

Anybody go talk to a black performer that had their season and then felt like they couldn't make it last or they were out of it, and they start thinking about, like, high school, like. And I have had this conversation a lot because of TMZ having covered people at their zenith and all of that stuff like that. And they always have things that they would have done differently. They always have things that they would have done differently for themselves and their careers. A season does not have to end. It really doesn't. And we see that with legacy artists all the time.

[Duran Bernard]

Absolutely.

[Van Lathan]

For you, having arrived into your season, how do you feel about it? And what do you feel like if any responsibility to yourself is at this point? What is that responsibility to yourself?

[Duran Bernard]

I think the main thing for me, the first thing that comes to mind is being grounded, you know, being where my feet are as much as I possibly can. Even with things moving as fast as they are, which I'm not a stranger to, things moving, but at the speed that it's going, that is also an adjustment. Because now you have moments of, wow, I really don't even have idle time. Like, I don't have time to just shoot the shit. Cause I got shit that needs to get done. And I feel convicted about lending Time to other stuff that is even close to leisure. And I have not handled what these niggas been terrorizing the group chat about. Where this, where's that? Where's that? We need this. You check this. You check that. I need this for that. Did you check? We did. I need this deliverable. I need to.

[Van Lathan]

Okay, Can I tell you a quick story? Yes. Somebody came in to host tmz. And it's early. Like, you come in and you do it at like 6 o'.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Clock.

[Van Lathan]

So a lot of times when Harvey would be gone, there were certain people we wouldn't even reach out to to come do the show. Cause we knew they weren't coming in that bitch at 6:00 clock to host the show. They were in there and they were about to go on, and they were talking to their manager, and they were like, I never forgot this. And they were like, yo, I'm tired, like, for all of this stuff, but we have to do this, and then we have to go to New York. When are we gonna rest? The manager looks back at them and they said, when does Coke rest? When does Coca Cola rest? When does Doritos rest? Like, when does Pizza Hut rest? I was like, shit, yikes. And then they said, you said you wanted to be a brand. You told us this. You said you wanted to be a brand.

[Duran Bernard]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

When does a brand rest? I was like, yo. And I was like, hey, man, they need you. Like, in the thing. Person went up and went. And that's kind of what we're talking about. Do you feel like you want to be a brand?

[Duran Bernard]

What on earth did I say yes to?

[Van Lathan]

Do you want that? Do you want to be a brand? Do you want to consider yourself? Do you want to one day become this thing that everybody feels like? Cause we're talking about commodification. Is that something that you want?

[Duran Bernard]

I think right now I'm looking at it as I'm able to be myself. And that make way for me. That opens doors for me in ways that have not before. However, I will say, as far as, like, this responsibility that I feel. I don't know if y' all know, but I've been elected the thrayer, which is the mayor of Black Threads. Yes.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Oh, well, Van thought he was king of threads.

[Van Lathan]

I didn't think shit.

[Duran Bernard]

Listen, listen, wait a minute.

[Van Lathan]

I didn't think shit.

[Rachel Lindsay]

You got booted.

[Van Lathan]

I didn't think shit.

[Rachel Lindsay]

He's the people's mayor. He said elected.

[Van Lathan]

They appointed me.

[Duran Bernard]

I just made my official statement this morning.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Congratulations.

[Duran Bernard]

Thank you so Much congratulations as well. Listen, and I'm looking for. Listen, I said I need an all black woman cabinet, okay?

[Rachel Lindsay]

Oh, I'm more than happy to give you.

[Duran Bernard]

And then there's the Men of Valor assembly, okay. Where the gentlemen come in and we help assist the ladies. Okay.

[Van Lathan]

I'm the king of thread, so I'll be coming to try to take you out. But that's okay. You can employ Rachel.

[Duran Bernard]

We have Dominique Morgan. We have Jasmine Garden, Christian A. Smith. I'm reaching out to Conscious Lee. We have Yvette Brown.

[Van Lathan]

Can I say something real quick?

[Duran Bernard]

Yes.

[Van Lathan]

Just gonna reach out to Conscious Lee, everybody. Conscious Lee is the single most impressive person that I've been around in a long, long time. We were at the. We tried to get Rachel to come as well, but she said, fuck the movement. We were at the freedom movement at Cal State la. Conscious Lee is a phenomenon. Yeah, I saw him in dc. I saw him. I'm glad that. I'm glad that you guys are linking up. Cause those two energies are like, what needs to happen right now. What a phenomenal orator. Just a brilliant genius of a person.

[Duran Bernard]

Solution based. We love solutions based.

[Van Lathan]

Solution based.

[Duran Bernard]

And I had to make sure that I clear about this. I'm gonna thread this later on, but I am not in any position to govern anybody. What I happen to be is a solutionist that has a platform.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Great.

[Duran Bernard]

So if I see people getting riled up about something, like for instance, I said, y', all, please don't engage in the rage. Bait the block and not interested buttons are right there. Please don't engage in the foolery. That's it. All I'm doing is giving you a suggestion on how you can have a little less stress in your body. Yep, yep, that's it.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Listen, I made a statement very similar when Tamara joined. I said, guys, you don't have to agree with someone. Just because you don't agree with them doesn't mean you have to bully them or attack them. Just keep scrolling. Just keep it moving. What would you do? What would you do with that situation? As the thrayer of threads?

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Duran Bernard]

Heavy as the heavy. You know, it's tough, you know, when you have. When the people feel that you have separated yourself from them in some kind of way, it's hard for them to feel like they need to welcome you in a space that they're thriving in and having fun and whatnot. And it's just, I me personally, that woman has not done anything to me. Okay. But offer entertainment as I grew up, you know what I'm saying so. However, you have other black women that feel a certain way. Other black. So I'm just like y'. All. I can only suggest y'. All. That's not kind.

[Van Lathan]

Right.

[Duran Bernard]

However, if they, like, this is where

[Rachel Lindsay]

you give it to the city council.

[Duran Bernard]

You know what I'm saying?

[Rachel Lindsay]

Yes. This is where we step in.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Or the thread council. Yeah, the thread.

[Duran Bernard]

No, we are. We are. We have the Thread council.

[Rachel Lindsay]

You got the new album coming out, and just hearing you talk about, like, all the things that you're doing, when you announced it, I was like, wait, we got an album coming out too? I don't know when you found the time, the space to do it. When you were creating this album, what kind of emotional space were you in?

[Duran Bernard]

Hmm. I'm in a. I mean, I'm feeling scattered, however, still centered within myself. I'm feeling like I'm in alignment with where I am, not only emotionally and mentally, but sonically. And having the attention of people that I have been inspired by and that have took part in raising me. They're. They're valuing what I have to offer. And while some people might say, now that Duran got his Grammy, now everybody want to work with him, now everybody wants to. And I just want to say, I hear you. This is just like when people say, I was trying to get you hip to Duran back in 2012, and you weren't trying to hear it. I didn't have stuck back in 2012. I didn't have overqualified back in 2014. I had my personality, and I had me singing the shit out of other people's songs, but I didn't have my own material that stuck. We didn't have anything that stuck just yet. I just needed to find my recipe. Once I found that out, it was. We was out of here.

[Van Lathan]

Why do you think people do that?

[Rachel Lindsay]

That

[Van Lathan]

I have a theory, but I want to hear yours.

[Duran Bernard]

Sometimes people, you can be convinced, but sometimes you need to convince other people. And that can look like so many different things. I've learned, being in Los angeles for over 10 years, that people are more prone to help those that they see helping themselves. And I know that's not something exclusive to Los Angeles, but just being in this particular space that I'm in, in these environments, because sometimes we can feel a little entitled by our proximity and feeling like, well, dang, like you. Have you said. Have you mentioned. Or, you know, you say I'm dope, but, like, you know, and it's just we have to put in the work for that. Now if there's somebody that wants to help and come up, which there was.

[Van Lathan]

Mm.

[Duran Bernard]

Then it's like, again, they can give you the tools, but you have to apply it. And I don't know what someone else's recipe for dope is. I just know what my template is and I don't mind sharing and being. I just did a song with Teiana Major Ix. Oh my goodness. I was up in there vocal producing and telling her to do this run and place this right. Do this right here. Oh, I was so excited.

[Van Lathan]

I think that people are searching for sincerity and authenticity and they want to believe for their own lives that someone will look at them and respect their talent and not their product. Because sometimes it's hard to produce. And I don't know if you guys just caught the look, the subtle facial tick that Duran gave you. I don't know if you. But the fact is that that's not what happens. Right? So people talk to me all the time about their ideas. If you have a script, it just means more. If you've shot that script now, it means a lot because you were willing to do whatever you had to do to get your thing made. And it just. There are people that should look at you and say, this person is talented. I've never heard anyone like this before. I've never looked. Let me invest. But most of the time people are going to invest into what you have been able to produce. Is that fair?

[Duran Bernard]

It's not. However, I understand the business side of it because now you have. The powers that be are saying, well, we don't want to look at you unless you have this amount of monthly listeners or this amount of followers or you have to have this amount of stream. Like we need to see that you have done X amount of heavy lifting. Cause we're not trying to do artist development. When artist development just wasn't at labels. Artist development was at church. Artist development was after school programs and music class talent shows. Talent shows. Like that was also like families that were in the church that sang together. That was a part of artist development. And it's not what it used to be. Not to say that everything has to remain the same, but I think when you are removing certain core things that help people just be well rounded in art and expressing themselves, you can tell, you can just tell there's a lack in it. So when someone like me comes along, it's very reminiscent of what the aunties and the uncles used to jam to. Our parents used to listen to. Cause they. Because Earth, Wind and Fire was my first gig, right?

[Rachel Lindsay]

Oh, really?

[Duran Bernard]

Yeah. Like, I grew up on Chaka Khan and Rufus and Rahsaan Patterson, and you can hear it. You know, all that stuff. Yeah, yeah.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Talk too. Just about, like, for our audience members who may be hearing from you from the first time. Just like you're not somebody who just popped up randomly who went viral. And, you know, you have true talent, but you also just, like, have the grassroots. You've been doing this forever, and you talked about it in your speech when you were accepting your Grammy. Talk a little bit about, like, and, well, one. Talk about that. And then just also, do you still see people doing that? Or maybe for people who have been doing that, because we were just having this conversation. I cannot remember who we were talking to. About how some of the most talented people we see aren't in la. Like, they don't have the opportunity to get here, or they don't have the connections, or they're not. Kendrick. We're talking to Kendrick. Aren't known. Can you talk a little bit about your journey in that and just maybe even some encouragement to someone who's been in it for 10 years and wants to turn away and you're like, keep going another 10 years. Cause that's what you did.

[Duran Bernard]

Yeah, yeah. And I've been preaching this since it is, you know, since I got the megaphone. You cannot do this by yourself. It is just virtually chemically impossible for you to be able to do everything by yourself. And it is important that you have a team around you. For me, I have a village that just happened to become the team, but a village that believes in you and can be your eyes where you can't see or. I mean, a lot of us wear multiple hats, you know? Cause it's small, but it's effective, you know, And.

[Rachel Lindsay]

And

[Duran Bernard]

I've had conversations with folks that were. You know, I've been doing this for five years, and nobody's taking me serious. And I'm just. Let's talk when you reach year 15. And if nothing's popped off, then let's wait till your grind is old enough to vote. And if nothing popped off in Holla at me when they can buy you a drink. And then we can talk about no one taking you serious or it not happening. It's. You really never know where things can take you. And there's always. Cause it's a small revolving door. And there are so many. So many. But see, here's the thing. And I'll tell people this, too. I can. I'M pretty sure there's about at least three gentlemen down in Willicoochee, Georgia, Bessemer, Alabama, somewhere who could sing circles around me more like more than that. Yeah, but at least three I'm being very, very just. Yeah, but singing circles jump high to me. Splits out of here. However, they don't have the same resources, they don't have the same village. They might not even have the same desire.

[Van Lathan]

They might not even have. They might have bad habits that they might have all kinds of things. Like, there's a confluence of things that got you to where you are that have to do with, like, sacrifices that you've made. Like, used to be people you be in church or you be whatever, you be at your family in union. And you come in there and you hear a voice, you'd be like, who the fuck is that? And your aunt would be like, that's so and so's kid. But after this, they going to get some heroin. Right. And I'm not using addiction. I'm just saying there's so many things that happen. There's so many ways that you have to be in order to get to this point. And one of them is clear. Clear on what you want and clear on what you're willing to do to get. Let me ask you this.

[Duran Bernard]

Yes.

[Van Lathan]

Is there anything that purity. Being able to be here and still be a good person and still have the right set of politics and still have enough of yourself that you haven't compromised? How important is that to you? How important do you think it should be? Do you think people get caught up too much in the behaviors of their faves?

[Duran Bernard]

Well, one thing that my therapist had to remind me of some years back is that I am not just durand from East 93rd in St. Clair, Boondocks and Harmony. Oh, they grew up on 99th.

[Van Lathan]

99th, yeah.

[Duran Bernard]

I'm on 93rd. Yes. So that's one thing. And even in my shows, when I have the attention of a room, I always want to leave them better than when I found them. So whether that is sharing something that I learned in therapy or some ways in which that I grew or that I learned and hopefully that could inspire someone else to be a better version of themselves. So I would like to think that I'm on the. I don't even like to say the right side of things, because right, right, wrong is right. I'm thinking not what's right or wrong, what is considerate, what is kind, what is humanistic. Yes. Like. Cause I. And tell me I don't Know, maybe if I'm the only one. I have a heart for people and I can't stand people all at the same time. I love my people, but I can't stand people. Like, do you get, like. It's just. It's tough being in that position sometime.

[Rachel Lindsay]

I think more people are like that than they like to admit.

[Duran Bernard]

Yeah.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Like, you're lying if you're not. You can't like everybody. There's no such thing.

[Duran Bernard]

And I know I'm not meant to be liked.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Yeah.

[Duran Bernard]

And, you know, I would like to put this out there, too. For the most part, I would like to say that I would like to extend and hopefully the people have a positive encounter with me. And then there's some times where you might not get the best version of me. And that's never intentional. I think sometimes, again, when I said I have made this dimension of my personality the brand, that is what people expect all the time. Even when you are tired, even when you are literally screaming on the inside and you have to be quiet about that.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Mm. How do you protect or did you do you however you want to answer it, Your individuality in an industry that tries to shape artists. And I'm wondering if somebody even tried to. Do you have a story of somebody trying to, like, put you in a box or tell you what you need to do? And clearly you didn't because you've always stayed true to who you are. So how do you protect that?

[Duran Bernard]

First and foremost? Shout out to the late, great devet Singletary. She came to stay with me and my parents when I was about 19. I just turned 19, and I met her when I was on the road with Earth, Wind and Fire. And she had worked as a image consultant with LaFace Records. She did Toni Braxton's album cover. She worked with Usher when he was a kid. Tlc, all those folks. And I brought her with me to this open mic jam session that I was performing at. And there were ink. While she was, like, co managing me at the time with my dad, there would be people asking her about my sexuality and what I like. And that has never been something that I've pushed to the forefront, you know, and she always stood up for me. And I remember her telling me about someone that could help with mannerisms, you know, to kind of tone down the. And I was open to it, you know, just so that, like, whatever is, like, I don't. I've never been one that felt I had all the answers. So whatever it is that we need to do to at least get our foot in the door. I'm open to it. And I went up and sang two numbers. But the first song I sang it was after we'd had that conversation. And she said it was so painful looking at you be so conscious about every move that you made. She said it would be absolutely unfair of me to ask you to be something other than yourself. And so I went up for the second number and I had my confidence back and I didn't care about all that. And I rocked the house. So. Not for nothing, I've had to try to find other ways to maneuver through because everyone had their own ideas of what they felt I was. And also I feel like I'm just now getting into the industry. And I say that because, yes, I say that because I've always felt I was on the outskirts. Like if the industry was downtown, I was up in the Valley. It's like, I know people there. I have access to certain parts of it, but I don't have a place down there. So being on Grammy accredited projects, you know, like the Internet's Ego Death. I was on Anderson Pac's Ventura Project. I did backgrounds in that one. Won for best progressive R and B album. And then Kaytranada for Bubba Free Fall, that one. Then we did what else? Timeless. But the same year that Timeless got nominated, my project En Route got nominated. And that was the first time I had ever gotten nominated by myself, as myself. And so that's when I felt like, oh, no, I'm actually in the ether of things. I'm no longer on the outskirts. And so, yeah, you never know what's going to hit. It's just about. You have to love it. It's like I call this glamorized customer service. Glamorized customer service. Am I wrong?

[Van Lathan]

No, not at all.

[Duran Bernard]

Okay.

[Van Lathan]

I mean, you know, I think about this, the existence of. Based upon like what you just said, what you just talked about, the existence of gay artists in black popular music has been ever present. I don't want to out anyone but artists that we knew were flamboyant, that they were gay or whatever, whatever it was. There seemed to be, though, in the past, this truce that existed, which was as long as they didn't, like, embrace their lifestyle.

[Duran Bernard]

We'll accept you.

[Van Lathan]

We'll accept you. We wouldn't ask too many questions, we wouldn't delve into it. And we would sometimes even particularly with my grandmother and stuff like that, they would look at. My grandmother loved the Liberace. Right. He's obviously not. They love The Liberace. And my mom used to poke fun at her. You know, Rach is gay. And you get mad, right? Like, get upset, get mad. But that truce seems to be something that modern artists are no longer willing to do.

[Duran Bernard]

I never signed up for it in the first place.

[Van Lathan]

Exactly. Right? So, like. And it is something that's, like, really interesting for me to, like, behold. And once again, I don't want to call out artists from the past that did it because it was. See how that popped out. I did it to Liberace. Cause he's white. But that truce seems to be something that artists are no longer willing to do. And when I listen to you tell that story, I'm listening to you reject that. How freeing is that for you? And do you think that's something that we're seeing all over? I mean, obviously, Frank Ocean, so many different people that are saying, this is me. This is who I am. And these songs are about love. Not love to a specific woman, not love to a specific. These are songs about love.

[Duran Bernard]

You know, we talking about gay niggas, Right? We talking about gay shit.

[Van Lathan]

Right? Okay, cool. But what I mean by saying that is that, like, to me. What I mean by saying that is, to me, any song about loving a human being is a song about love.

[Duran Bernard]

Yes.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

It's actually a song about love and how you feel, how attachment feels, and all of that stuff. But it seems like we weren't willing to accept that before. And people are. Are either now more willing to accept it or they're getting into the understanding of the human condition a little bit better. They're not asking you to change who you are as much. Is that true, or is that the way I'm reading it from my liberal, lefty fucking Louisiana space?

[Duran Bernard]

You have people that are down with it, that never cared in the first place. You have people who do care. They feel like you're pushing an agenda. You know, there's gonna be sides from all of it. I would much rather focus on the people that fuck with it. Right. You know, that's why not.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Duran Bernard]

And again, I've never asked for anyone's permission to be myself.

[Van Lathan]

I push the gay agenda.

[Duran Bernard]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

Okay.

[Duran Bernard]

Yes. Thank you.

[Van Lathan]

I'm a pusher of it.

[Duran Bernard]

Thank you.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Well, you have.

[Duran Bernard]

I'm a pusher, Katie.

[Van Lathan]

I'm a pusher. I'm a pusher. I'm a pusher of the gay agenda.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Well, you. And it's because people fuck with you. Clearly. Clearly.

[Duran Bernard]

You can't deny the ability and the skill you could say I don't really prefer his music. That's fine. It's all an acquired taste. But to say, oh, this nigga can't sing, or he's not gifted or he's not talented. You're a hater. You're a hater, and I don't have haters, but you are a hater.

[Rachel Lindsay]

I feel like to watch you do your thing is a whole experience. It's not even just about this. So it's like, to your point, you might not vibe with the song, but you're gonna vibe with, like, the. The performance, the. The dancing, the facial expressions, the harmony that's happening. Like it's a whole thing. You got. You need to go to a show. What do you mean, what?

[Van Lathan]

I need to go to one show?

[Rachel Lindsay]

You gotta come to one of.

[Duran Bernard]

Yeah, you gotta pull up.

[Rachel Lindsay]

You gotta experience it.

[Duran Bernard]

Wait, wait, wait, wait. What are you doing? What are you doing on the set?

[Van Lathan]

I would have loved it before, but now.

[Duran Bernard]

What are you doing on the sixth?

[Van Lathan]

Undercut me. I don't want to go. I don't want to go to the show.

[Duran Bernard]

What are you doing on the 6th? On the 6th of May?

[Rachel Lindsay]

You guys have something in common.

[Van Lathan]

I'm getting my kingdom together.

[Duran Bernard]

Oh, yeah, that's right. You're gonna. That's right. Yeah. Cause you're gonna. Yeah, I'm doing Netflix as a joke.

[Van Lathan]

Wait, I'm doing it, too. I'm doing it on the 4th, though.

[Duran Bernard]

On the 4th. Okay. Are you busy on the 6th?

[Van Lathan]

I don't think so.

[Duran Bernard]

I would love to have you.

[Van Lathan]

Where's the show?

[Duran Bernard]

And I'll go Electric Pacific in K town.

[Van Lathan]

Why? I asked where the show is.

[Duran Bernard]

I don't know.

[Van Lathan]

I don't know.

[Ada Rodriguez]

We'll be there.

[Van Lathan]

No, I'll go.

[Rachel Lindsay]

We'll be there.

[Van Lathan]

But to be honest with you, the reason why I ask is because, like, there's, like, a joy that comes from what it is that you do. People get happy to fucking see you. They do. We was at the party. You walked in there. It's like everybody. They're happy to fuck. They're happy that things are going well. That is very precious. And a lot of times people don't understand, like, how important it is people want to have haters. They don't care as much about having lovers or having people that just are happy when they. When they see you. Do you feel the need. You talked about being tired before to, like, connect with that, to keep that going. Does that ever feel like a prison? That people love you so much and it like, do you feel like you can be your full self being that your fucking approval rating right now? You killing Trump, obviously, but your approval rating right now is way up in the 80s and the 90s of people who want you to succeed, are happy that you're succeeding, and want you around the burden ever. Yeah.

[Duran Bernard]

I think the only burden of that is the excitement can somehow can sometimes cloud people's judgment. And what I mean by that is, I would love. Okay, so let's say. Let's take, for instance, a club setting. I. I hate sections. Absolutely hate it. I feel like I'm on display. Yes. I like to move about in the city. Girl, let's go to the bar. Okay. Let's go over here to the set. Okay. Let's go over here. I want to move about. But first and foremost, I'm 5 8, so it's like, already I'd rather be 58 than Avery Wilson's height. Okay. Cause he's not escaping nobody. Okay.

[Van Lathan]

But that nigga can sing, too. Sing. Shit.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Sing.

[Duran Bernard]

Hey, Barrett.

[Van Lathan]

That n can sing, boy. But yes, yes, yes.

[Duran Bernard]

But yes. I would want to be out in the space if people just respected personal space. Yeah, it's the. You're making yourself comfortable on my body, and you haven't even introduced yourself. Hi, my name is. You went right for the touch. And I get it. I understand. I feel like Jesus. Hymns all around me. Hymns are around me and not the kind in books. And I get that. I love that. I love that people love that I bring them light. It's just. It can get very overstimulating when it comes from multiple places at once.

[Rachel Lindsay]

I've seen it for you, you know?

[Duran Bernard]

And it's like, yes, I am a person of the people. And it's like. It's very overstimulating, of course. And I want. And I want people to understand that, like, I can acknowledge you without you coming and doing this first before you have even introduced yourself.

[Ada Rodriguez]

Mm.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Mm. They are. They're excited.

[Duran Bernard]

They are. They are. I get it. Trust me. I get. I've been enough therapy. I got two therapists. I understand the psychology.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Oh, yes, you have two.

[Duran Bernard]

Oh, listen, I had them on three way last week. Sure did. Both of them. All hands on deck.

[Ada Rodriguez]

Okay.

[Duran Bernard]

Wonder Twins, activate.

[Van Lathan]

Wonder Twins, activate. He knows he's one of us.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Wait.

[Duran Bernard]

Okay.

[Rachel Lindsay]

He's one of us.

[Van Lathan]

He's one of us.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Comedy. Is this something you always cause. Okay, the comedy show that van is doing, what is it? It's for people who think they're funny. Is that what it was for. Oh, no, wait, wait. I'm really not trying to be funny. I can't. It's something like, oh, no, Van, help me out.

[Duran Bernard]

The people that think that they're funny.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Jade, what is it? It's not traditional comedians. It's people that are funny in different spaces. Ben, I'm so excited for your show.

[Van Lathan]

I don't even know that it's for people who are funny. It's for people who are sort of influencer celebrities, but they're funny. Yeah, it's like you're funny. Whatever. It's. No, you don't think that. You just told everybody what you thought and that's okay as well. Can we get back to the.

[Rachel Lindsay]

For you? Have you always wanted to do comedy? Cause I wanna see you on Broadway too.

[Duran Bernard]

So my parents took me to go see the Nutty professor when I was a kid in theaters. They also took me to go see the Mask in theaters at 6 years old. So there's always been a element of comedy within all of the things I've always loved making people laugh. So now I've gotten a hold of what that looks like, the format, what beats are. So. Yeah, now I gotta condense my space. Cause I did two test runs of my.

[Rachel Lindsay]

How'd it go?

[Duran Bernard]

So the first one, I did an hour.

[Van Lathan]

See?

[Rachel Lindsay]

Wow.

[Van Lathan]

I was telling you it's time. It's kind of hard to.

[Duran Bernard]

I did an hour and then I did the Belly Room two days later.

[Van Lathan]

Oh, you did this. Oh, you were up on set. Oh, you've done. Kyle, you've done stuff.

[Duran Bernard]

I just did this last week. These were test runs, and they let me go, like, an additional 20 minutes. So I did like an hour and 20 minutes at the belly room. And I think maybe 10% of it was singing. Yeah, no, it was. And I went off script a few times. I was like, oh, my goodness, I'm on a roll.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, you just fucking vibing.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Van Lathan]

I want to ask you controversial questions. Okay, but actually, I'm not going to ask you controversial questions. I'm just going to throw out the names of controversial people, and I just want your automatic response.

[Duran Bernard]

Okay?

[Van Lathan]

Kanye West.

[Duran Bernard]

Ooh, great meds, beautiful meds. We want the meds to be in place. We love. You know, I love my brother. You know, he just needs some assistance.

[Van Lathan]

Mm. Nicki Minaj.

[Duran Bernard]

I'm gonna pass on that.

[Van Lathan]

Okay, Very smart, Chris Brown.

[Duran Bernard]

Autumn Leaves is probably my favorite song

[Van Lathan]

off the X album credit. Boy, this nigga know what he doing. Last one, controversial person. Now Brand new addition to the controversial persons list, Klay Thompson.

[Duran Bernard]

So first of all, I was at the bar and I happened to see him there. And this was before all this happened, of course.

[Van Lathan]

Dr. King now.

[Duran Bernard]

And I said to his face, of course he was looking down because I'm much shorter than him. I said, thank you, sir, for making our girl happy. We love to see it. I said that to his face.

[Van Lathan]

I take it back.

[Duran Bernard]

All back. Hope you stub your toe. Every last one of them. Stressing that woman out. She got a show to do. She got a swimsuit line to release. She got time for this.

[Rachel Lindsay]

I wish they would leave Meg alone.

[Duran Bernard]

I just. My girl needs a break. Seriously.

[Rachel Lindsay]

She does. Yeah, she does. Well said Thrayer.

[Duran Bernard]

And also, I would just like to say this too.

[Van Lathan]

Oh, here we go.

[Duran Bernard]

I had a psst moment. Yes. That's calling in when I called you and I said, hey, this is a step into my office conversation.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Duran Bernard]

I had to call Deontay. Kyle had to call my brother.

[Van Lathan]

Our brother. We ate gumbo with him. My mama cooked gumbo.

[Duran Bernard]

He had something to say about Beyonce.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Oh.

[Duran Bernard]

And so my thing is, sir, listen here.

[Van Lathan]

What do you say?

[Duran Bernard]

First of all, he said something about I don't really listen to the music like that or something like that. I don't know, some dumb shit.

[Van Lathan]

Okay, Just.

[Duran Bernard]

So I said, listen here, Listen here. I said, at the first and foremost, at this time in your career, not just what's on your body, but you got. Your words got some weight to them, and you need to be mindful of what you say because people are listening to that. You have been a safe space for black women. So we do not need to compromise that. And niggas have dropped the ball. They've been. The bar has not.

[Van Lathan]

You know what?

[Duran Bernard]

The ball is a Frisbee.

[Van Lathan]

So wait, hold on.

[Duran Bernard]

I'm not done.

[Van Lathan]

Okay?

[Duran Bernard]

The ball is a Frisbee. Drop the ball. The ball is non existent. So if there's anything that is coming out of our mouths as black men, specifically, I'm talking about us. Talking about us.

[Van Lathan]

Okay?

[Duran Bernard]

There's anything coming out of our mouths towards a black woman, it needs to be lifting her up.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Thank you, period. Thank you.

[Duran Bernard]

Full stop.

[Van Lathan]

Okay?

[Duran Bernard]

Lifting them up. They are going through enough right now. Them two ladies just got murdered, and niggas is up here sending gofundmes to these niggas that murdered them.

[Van Lathan]

What is wrong with y'? All? Nah, it's not gonna be accepted.

[Duran Bernard]

So anything that comes out of our mouth towards black women, it needs to Be lifting y' all up.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Come on.

[Van Lathan]

Right.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Thank you.

[Van Lathan]

Which is why on this show, I try to always.

[Duran Bernard]

Don't try. Just do.

[Van Lathan]

Just listen.

[Rachel Lindsay]

And that's how you know right there.

[Van Lathan]

No, no, no, no. I try to always hold space for Candace Owens on the show. Cause you said lift up black women. So I always. I decided to. I'll try to always hold space for Candace.

[Duran Bernard]

Oh, you. Wel right into that one. My guy today.

[Van Lathan]

So always try to hold space for it. Deontay. We love you. What did he say? He said he don't like the music.

[Duran Bernard]

It said something. I got to go back and watch it. But it was just something. But it. It got the reaction of people that felt like, nah, bro, you, you, you. That was not necessary word.

[Van Lathan]

Like, if somebody. Let's say that someone didn't like, say, Anita Baker, what would your thought on that would be?

[Duran Bernard]

Well, my thing is, how are you? Is it because. Okay, so is your dislike for Anita Baker because you don't like, you know, her voice? Or is it because you were traumatized every weekend with her music to clean the house?

[Rachel Lindsay]

Dranna, they said I have a dirty house.

[Van Lathan]

I'm just saying.

[Duran Bernard]

Are you traumatized by Auntie?

[Ada Rodriguez]

I wish.

[Rachel Lindsay]

I wish that was the reason.

[Duran Bernard]

God damn it. What'd that man say?

[Rachel Lindsay]

God damn.

[Van Lathan]

God damn. God damn.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Oh, my gosh. Red duran.

[Duran Bernard]

Come on, snort.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Wait, should we do one of these really quick?

[Van Lathan]

What is that?

[Ada Rodriguez]

We'll just do pick one.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Pick one.

[Van Lathan]

We're picking for people that are listening. We're picking from cards. And the cards, I guess, have questions. What's the name of this game? Hello.

[Duran Bernard]

It's called Awkward.

[Van Lathan]

Hella awkward.

[Rachel Lindsay]

We love this. Duran brought this for us to play.

[Van Lathan]

Let me shout out the purple that made this game.

[Duran Bernard]

Let me see. Okay.

[Rachel Lindsay]

I thought she was supposed to blindly pick, but go ahead.

[Duran Bernard]

Oh, blindly.

[Rachel Lindsay]

No, no, go ahead. You found your card.

[Duran Bernard]

No, I was just gonna say. Cause you said you want to ask a spicy question, right?

[Rachel Lindsay]

Yes, we do want spicy.

[Van Lathan]

Brit and Brandon and they created hella awkward. It looks like it's a black man, a black woman.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Amazing.

[Van Lathan]

And an Asian lady. They've created this together. I was trying to give them shout out to the game. It's a black aa, A PI Owned company.

[Duran Bernard]

How do you feel about sucking toes?

[Van Lathan]

Me? Yes, me about sucking toes. I don't like to waste any part of the woman.

[Duran Bernard]

I know. That's right.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Wow.

[Van Lathan]

I don't like to waste any part of the woman. So, you know, it's about, you know.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Yes, it's not my go to. But if I really like you and that's what you like? Sure.

[Duran Bernard]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

Oh, so the sucking toes in your world is full of.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Give me both.

[Duran Bernard]

Do you take care of your feet in a fashionable way for your toes to be sucked?

[Van Lathan]

I take care of my feet, but one foot is a lost cause. So if I took off my shoes right now, this foot looks great. This foot is slightly bigger than this foot. So because this foot is slightly bigger than this foot, like, this is completely a lost cause. I've tried everything. I've tried everything. So, like, I'll try another.

[Duran Bernard]

Get some juice.

[Van Lathan]

Get some.

[Duran Bernard]

Get some juice else.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Okay, Now I'm doing what you were doing. Okay, wait, wait.

[Duran Bernard]

You guys are not the ones in the beginning are the ones that are spicy. You'll see on the top. You'll see on the top. It has the titles of what the sister is.

[Van Lathan]

This is not what Brit and Brandon. I think Brit and Brandon are sister and brother.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Have you ever had a hoe phase or a player phase? And did you enjoy it?

[Duran Bernard]

Well, first and foremost.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Are you still in it?

[Duran Bernard]

I was about to say the. The. So you know that HOE is an acronym for happiness over everything. So I'm always in a constant state of hoe. Okay. Always in a constant state of happiness over everything.

[Rachel Lindsay]

I love that.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, I reject the question because, like, this question shout out to Brit and Brandon and they. They're friend. But like, the. The whole phase is, like, looking down. Like, I reject the question.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Well, if you look at it in a negative way, I. I quite thoroughly enjoyed mine.

[Van Lathan]

I don't even think when was your whole face.

[Rachel Lindsay]

That wasn't part of the question.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Rachel Lindsay]

It was not tough.

[Duran Bernard]

She said too loud and too specific.

[Van Lathan]

I'll pick one. Yeah. All right. So the cards are color coded.

[Duran Bernard]

Yeah. And color coded.

[Van Lathan]

Oh, I like this.

[Rachel Lindsay]

This.

[Van Lathan]

This one right here.

[Duran Bernard]

Okay.

[Van Lathan]

Pick the good one. Butt injections, yes or no? What about other plastic surgery situations? Cosmetic plastic surgeries? Are you into them?

[Rachel Lindsay]

I've had surgery. I've had cosmetic surgery.

[Duran Bernard]

As have I. Oh, yeah. Did it Not a bbl You? Not a bbl.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Not a bbl.

[Van Lathan]

S Have I.

[Duran Bernard]

You know, I wanted to get my knees done.

[Van Lathan]

Your knees done?

[Rachel Lindsay]

What would that entail?

[Duran Bernard]

Adding a little height. However, I think I might be good at where I'm at, you know, because, see, if I was his height and, you know, somebody broke in the house, they would find me. But if I'm this height, I can be behind the good china or in the dryer. Amen that's what you thought about?

[Van Lathan]

You thought about having the height surgery?

[Duran Bernard]

Yeah. But then I saw a guy that actually got it done, and it's like, baby, he can only. Okay. Because if he runs, oh, baby, it's giving. What's that, movie glass?

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Does he have to wear. Can he show his legs off?

[Duran Bernard]

I don't know. But he should have got his arms too. Because if you gonna lengthen, like, that's the thing. It's uneven. I said, oh, that's too much. That's too much work. I tell you, though, put the soles in your shoes.

[Van Lathan]

About this surgery. They're getting damn close to have perfected that surgery. That surgery is becoming something that a lot of people are doing all the time. The first couple.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Really?

[Van Lathan]

Yeah. The first people that did it was obviously, it's a just gruesome surgery, right? It's like a gruesome surgery. But now I've actually met people who have had it. They're pretty good. They've come pretty close to perfecting that surgery and making that something that's viable to a lot of people.

[Duran Bernard]

Now I will say I'm gonna go to Turkey and I'm gonna get Otis together. Like, I'm getting this done.

[Van Lathan]

I did it.

[Rachel Lindsay]

You did it.

[Duran Bernard]

This right here. How was it here?

[Van Lathan]

Ziering Medical is where you should go. Right up here.

[Duran Bernard]

How many graphs?

[Van Lathan]

I think it was like 1500 or something like that. I'm going back.

[Duran Bernard]

You got the whole. Wait. You wait. You got your whole cranium.

[Van Lathan]

No, no, no. So I got. I actually can't remember how many graphs. I just wanted the hairline back. Not even crazy.

[Duran Bernard]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I just need this right here. Just in these corners.

[Van Lathan]

Gotta go up to Ziering Medical. It's better than Turkey. Okay. And let me tell you something else. If you go to Ziering Medical, they got a little thing that they do there. Okay. If you. Cause when you go there, you're in a consultation, they show you other people have had it, and you're like, God damn right. If you let them. If you become one of the people that they let, which would be hilarious. It'd be like, look how good Duran's hair look. Then you could, like, get it cheaper and stuff like that. But right up there, I watched Netflix all day. They did the whole thing. It was easy peasy. I came back, it was fine.

[Duran Bernard]

Did they numb you?

[Van Lathan]

Because that's the only painful part.

[Duran Bernard]

Yeah, that was them.

[Van Lathan]

The only painful part is. Cause, like, the hair part, you don't Feel any of that? But they gotta numb you back here to take the individual strands out. And then they gotta numb you up. Up here to put them in.

[Duran Bernard]

Put them in.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah. And then, like, that's the only part. The numbing is the most painful part.

[Duran Bernard]

Gotcha.

[Rachel Lindsay]

He said that they were like, does Rachel want to come?

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, they said that. They said they want to. It's like they want to bring it down my forehead. Yeah, the forehead situation.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Forehead reduction.

[Van Lathan]

I tell you what, though. You know what? I'm going back.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Well, I didn't say I was going that. That forehead reduction is a totally different thing. Is that what they do there? That is what they do, right?

[Duran Bernard]

Well, you know, Timberland got the one that come all the way down here. He got the bang. I said, too far, you went too far.

[Rachel Lindsay]

That's why I'm scared. You can't take it back.

[Ada Rodriguez]

You can't.

[Rachel Lindsay]

I like my big forehead. I like, got up on your way back.

[Van Lathan]

Way back, please. Hey, when is the one man show coming? I know people didn't ask you about this before. When is the one man show coming? When is like the one man show that. Cause you talked about the comedy and you talked about the fact that you did sing. But. But is all you on the stage the one that the show wins a bunch of Tonys. That leads to the movies. That leads to the entire EGOT situation.

[Duran Bernard]

I don't even know. I gotta finish the book first.

[Rachel Lindsay]

It comes from the book. That's what I'm saying.

[Duran Bernard]

I gotta finish the book first. I think once I at least get all of that, get every detail of my life that I possibly can. I also need my parents to kinda chime in on some of that. Cause I would like them to kind of narrate parts of their chapters, their own chapters, to kind of give perspective of our relationship at certain times.

[Van Lathan]

So, yeah, last question for me. How are you gonna make your season last? How's your season gonna become a lifetime? How's your season gonna become an era? How is this the beginning of what you do and it doesn't flame out in four or five years or whatever? It took you way longer than that to get here.

[Duran Bernard]

I was about to say, this is the same fire that got started 21 years ago. It just has more. You can just see it now. But the fire has always been there. You can just see it from a greater distance. So it's been like. It's as Dr. Wilson so eloquently said, of course, you're a slow burn, dear. You're the son not a match.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Oh, that's one of your therapists.

[Duran Bernard]

No, that's.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Oh, I thought that she was.

[Duran Bernard]

That's one of my good Judas.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Okay. I was like, well, let me sign up for them.

[Duran Bernard]

Dr. Wilson has a PhD. I got my Grammy. Like, we are, you know, we up

[Rachel Lindsay]

here in our field, tell everybody album when it's coming out, everything you want them to know about that. I mean, you have so many others and anything else you want to let them know about?

[Duran Bernard]

Yes. So I have my fourth studio album coming out on May 1, titled Banal Period. Cannot forget the period, not to be confused with Bernard. Oh, but B E R A N A ra.

[Van Lathan]

I wonder where homie is right now.

[Duran Bernard]

He's not with us anymore.

[Van Lathan]

Are you serious?

[Duran Bernard]

He literally did not even make it to see the success of that movie.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Oh, no.

[Duran Bernard]

Yeah. Yeah. I literally just spoke about Cora and. Yeah. What I would not have given to just sit down with him and talk about life. Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

Damn.

[Duran Bernard]

And I will be hitting the road dates coming soon. Again, I am the mayor of black threads. This is not a government, but more of a conglomerate of the collective, of the people coming together to just exchange resources and figure out ways that we can have a little less stress in our bodies and laugh a little more,

[Rachel Lindsay]

you know, we need it. Yes. Yes. Thank you so much for being here and congratulations on everything.

[Duran Bernard]

Thank you.

[Rachel Lindsay]

So well deserved.

[Duran Bernard]

Thank you.

[Van Lathan]

All right, brother. Keep up, man. Okay. I'm going to make a fool out of myself a week from today. And this person right here is the reason why. This is Ada Rodriguez. Stand up comic. Like political commentary toward the young turds. I've seen you, like, so many different places.

[Ada Rodriguez]

Ida.

[Van Lathan]

Ida. Excuse me. I say, Ada. Can I call you Ada, though?

[Rachel Lindsay]

No.

[Van Lathan]

Why not?

[Rachel Lindsay]

Cause that's not a name.

[Van Lathan]

Can I be honest with you? I'm having a problem with names. Why Jamila was here. I've always called her Jamila. I'm being like my dad now.

[Rachel Lindsay]

I have a problem with names, though.

[Van Lathan]

My dad used to do that.

[Rachel Lindsay]

But that doesn't mean you get to call him what you want. You wouldn't want people to call you Vaughn.

[Van Lathan]

I would get used to it. So we did Francesca's live show. It was very fun.

[Ada Rodriguez]

It was fun.

[Van Lathan]

It was a bunch of lefties in the room. We were having a fun time. And then after that, you asked me to do a standup set at Netflix. As a joke.

[Ada Rodriguez]

Yep.

[Van Lathan]

But it's. These are, like, people that are not commonly standups that are gonna be doing it.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Yeah.

[Ada Rodriguez]

You know so one of the biggest complaints that we are getting about the Netflix is a joke. And I'll say we, like, I'm part of the corporation.

[Van Lathan]

You're part of big comedy.

[Ada Rodriguez]

Nah. But it. Yes. Is that there are, like, a lot of celebrities hosting comedy shows with the comedians on there. Like, Lizzo's doing a show. And so I said, well, like, if celebrity is gonna exploit comedy, let me exploit celebrity. So I was like, I'm gonna do a celebrity open mic. You, Eric Benet, Macy, Lisa Vidal. Like, a bunch of actors are gonna come in and performers and do stand up. Because I think everybody thinks they can do standup. Cause they're funny to their friends. That's because you. You respect it.

[Van Lathan]

Right.

[Ada Rodriguez]

But a lot. Everybody thinks they can do stand up.

[Duran Bernard]

Right.

[Ada Rodriguez]

And I just respect you guys for honoring the craft. Cause you even. You have such respect for it that you're scared of it. Yeah, but some people don't.

[Van Lathan]

I'm nervous, but, you know, I didn't think. I just wanna let people know. I didn't think that I could do it. So you set me up. You lined me up.

[Ada Rodriguez]

Yeah, I did.

[Rachel Lindsay]

I will be front row. I am thrilled about this. I'm gonna be just like this the whole time. But I actually think you're funny. I'm excited for you to do this. And I feel like he's scared but curious at the same time. I think you're a little nervous, but I think you're excited about it.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, I just don't. I don't know how to keep it short. You said we only have three minutes,

[Ada Rodriguez]

but you're the only person on the lineup that has been like, it has to be three minutes. Everybody else is like, three minutes and three minutes only. You're the only person. And it's because you're. You are bold. You know, You. You are. You always talking. So, you know.

[Rachel Lindsay]

So if he goes over three minutes, what happens? Like, can I throw stuff at.

[Van Lathan]

Oh, I'm definitely going over three minutes.

[Ada Rodriguez]

You could throw stuff out of me. No, no, you. You said you're gonna do more than three. I think people underestimate how long. Three minutes. How long the three minutes.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, that's probably true.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Not on this podcast. He can go on and on and on. He's a storyteller.

[Ada Rodriguez]

But you're going to the. You're going to the Laugh Factory, which is a comedy club, and people are expecting you to be funny. And I think it's just a great lesson for a lot of people who just think, I make all my friends think I'm funny. I'm like, yeah, they all. You guys all think alike.

[Rachel Lindsay]

I'm actually shocked that people think that, Stan. This must be people who've never been to a comedy show, because I thoroughly enjoy going to comedy shows. And I'm always in awe, one, at the courage that it takes to get on stage and then to be able to memorize what it is that you're saying and stay in it. Whether there's heckling, especially when I see people do crowd work, I'm just so impressed by it. I don't understand why people would think that that is the job that they could do in entertainment. I think it's one of the hardest things.

[Ada Rodriguez]

But that's. First of all, thank you. I appreciate that. Cause we don't get that level of respect. Like, comedians are the blue collar workers of the entertainment business. We don't have a union. There's no regulation. Somebody can pay me $1,500 for a gig, and then somebody else will call me and say, hey, I got $75 for you, so you could come, you know, 45 minutes away and do 15 minutes of standup. There's no regulation. There's. There's no respect for the craft. And so I think that because it's become such a profitable business, you have people that are not good at stand up. I think people don't realize the difference between, first, there are two audiences. There's the comedy connoisseur, and then the pop culture enthusiast. And the pop culture enthusiasts have ruined the craft of comedy because they consume it like McDonald's. They get everything off the Internet. This is what comedy is to you. But then there are the people. I mean, you can ask 20 people who their favorite comedians are, and I guarantee you that a great percentage of that 20 is gonna say Richard Price. And he's been gone how long? Because he was a craftsman and he was one of the greatest, and I would say the greatest. But that's because he's a real standup comedian and people still quote the jokes. And then some people are just getting laughed at for an hour. They just go up and they do ridiculousness for an hour. And then there's a whole cheering section, you know, like Gladiator, because they like to see, you know, things crash and burn. And it's not comedy. It's not stand up comedy.

[Van Lathan]

What did you mean when you said, I thought this was very interesting? You said, of course your friends think you're funny. You guys all think alike.

[Ada Rodriguez]

Absolutely.

[Van Lathan]

That's profound. To me, because in my friend group, we all make each other laugh. Because these jokes we have in common are based upon all these other things that we have in common. But comedians can't do that. They have to make things relatable to people who live a completely different style of life and think differently than them. That seems impossible. I'm going to fail.

[Ada Rodriguez]

I mean, if. No, you're not.

[Rachel Lindsay]

You're not.

[Ada Rodriguez]

But if you think about, like, somebody like Richard Pyer, Moms Mabley, they had to. People that think about the people who had to walk in through the back, that couldn't walk in through the front door, that would get on a stage and make all these white people who didn't even see them as full human beings. Laughter. All come together in one thought and laughter. Because that's brilliance. And you want to demean that by saying that it's not that hard. Anybody can make anybody laugh. No. When I went to Omaha two weeks ago, there was very few people in that audience that had a similar experience to me. I had never been to Nebraska before. That was my first time. And to hear them laugh at my jokes the way that I think my point of view felt like a real accomplishment. Because I guarantee you that a great percentage of those people voted against the majority of the things that declare me a full human being. And I still made them laugh. Now, I'm not patting myself on the back for that, but I do want people to understand that being a standup comedian is not making the people who think like you laugh. It's being able to make a bunch of people that come from different places all join together in laughter at what you're thinking. And that, to me, is brilliance.

[Rachel Lindsay]

See, this is what I'm talking about. That's why you're like what you. The blue collar worker of. You have to be smart to write. You have to have good public speaking. You have to have timing. There's just so many things that you have to have to be a comedian that it just makes no sense to me that you shouldn't be the blue collar workers. Netflix is a joke. Explain that. Cause I feel like, first off, when did that start?

[Ada Rodriguez]

So I'm not sure. It started.

[Van Lathan]

It's been around for some time.

[Ada Rodriguez]

It's been around. Cause it's on and off. It's like one year on, one year off. So they didn't do it last year, they did it the year before. And it will only make sense to have a festival in Los Angeles.

[Rachel Lindsay]

So it's considered a festival.

[Ada Rodriguez]

Yeah, it's A comedy festival.

[Rachel Lindsay]

How long does it go? I know. It's like a different place for a week. Variety of things. Like, I've been to certain things where people might be shooting something for Netflix or. Gosh, what's his name? Did the thing at the Hollywood Bowl. No, no, no, no. Where he raised. I didn't get to go to that. He raised. Oh, my gosh. He does the show on Apple. Why can I not talk about Seth Rogen? Thank you. He did a special. He did a. He did. I couldn't think of his name. Sorry. Did a special and was raising money for his charity. So there's, like, a variety of things that you could tell our audience a little bit about, like, what it is.

[Ada Rodriguez]

It's a festival that has a whole bunch. I have adhd. So when I cut you off.

[Rachel Lindsay]

No, no, no, no. I do too. I took my pill aid. Hasn't kicked in yet.

[Ada Rodriguez]

Me too. I just took it with coffee. Let's see how that works.

[Van Lathan]

With coffee?

[Ada Rodriguez]

Yes.

[Rachel Lindsay]

I do mine.

[Van Lathan]

You going crazy Sometimes.

[Ada Rodriguez]

Wait a minute.

[Rachel Lindsay]

I've done that before.

[Van Lathan]

I do the concerta. I'm on a concerto right now, too. If I, like, take the concerta and then drink coffee, I start seeing sounds in this motherfucker.

[Ada Rodriguez]

All right, what is it? Pharrell?

[Van Lathan]

Yeah. No, I'm serious. Like, I can't do it with coffee.

[Ada Rodriguez]

Well, the coffee works the opposite for me because I have adhd. It calms me down a little bit.

[Rachel Lindsay]

I tell people this. It's like drinking a warm bottle. This is what I say. Yes, it is a form of it.

[Ada Rodriguez]

Thank you.

[Rachel Lindsay]

I feel seen.

[Ada Rodriguez]

So it's a festival, and they have all these comedy shows and different ranges of comedians depending on different levels. Some people are doing smaller cafes. Some people do the Hollywood Bowl. And it's just a festival celebrating comedy and bringing all the shows at one time to the city. And people here come here to watch comedy who really like the comedy buffs. They really come out because they know they're gonna get comedians.

[Van Lathan]

Talked a little bit about Netflix's joke comedy and stuff like that. What's the biggest issue right now in stand up comedy to you?

[Ada Rodriguez]

The bastardization. Bastardization of standup. I think that crowd work is a tool that we use in standup. Right. Usually at the top of the show. So it's become this thing that. Because it includes the audience. But what that does is it fosters an environment of people who don't know how to behave at a comedy show. So they'll come just to participate in crowd Work because they want to be in a video and it's just a tool. It's not supposed to be your whole hour. People pay money for that. People pay. They have a two item minimum at most clubs. They pay for parking babysitters. They work all week, they come there, they want to escape. And now you asking them to do your work. There's a comedian who just did this whole rant about that, which I was like, this is brilliant. So I think one of the harder things is what the Internet has done to stand up.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

But if the audience likes that and if the audience wants to participate in that, then I guess the question would be like, like, what's the problem with it? Is it just. Are we talking about a purity issue or are we talking about an issue? Like, what is the actual problem with it if the audience likes being involved with the show?

[Ada Rodriguez]

That one. Because that's not usually. That's not a real stand up comedy audience. Like the standup purists, the people, the comedy connoisseurs who want to come watch the show, they get irritated because they paid for that. And now you playing, you talking, you talking, you jumping. If it was contained, if y' all just did y' all crowd work, comedy shows over there, right? And then. And I know they're gonna come for me, but I don't care. Cause I respect the craft of comedy. I respect, respect the people that came before me. I honor the people who, you know, put in the work. Even the ones who are not famous like I know it was. There are people that are. Maintain the assembly line of comedy throughout the week, the weeks that you don't know. When Kevin Hart doesn't come to the show. There are comedians that are working every week right now all over the country, putting in the work to make people laugh who are not, who don't have 2 million followers on Instagram. And I have to have respect for those people because that's my comedy family. I think what happens is if you're gonna do that and those people just stayed within that world, it's fine. But then they come to our comedy shows, those of us who have prepared hours of stand up. And now they're yelling out at us. And now we gotta maintain this situation. We have to do, you know, we have to, we have to calm people down. We have to train them that you don't yell out at comedy shows. Everybody doesn't want to do that. And I'm, I'm all for everybody who does it, if that's what you want to do. I know that Nate Jackson has material. I know that Matt Rife has material, because a lot of people didn't know Matt before he started doing crowd work. Matty's been doing standup since he was 16, and he's always. He was solid, you know, that's why he kept moving up. People don't know. But now you go to. Sometimes you'll go to a Matt Rife show. Like, I've done shows with him at the Laugh Factory, and it looks like a Justin Bieber concert when, you know. And it's a whole bunch of little girls who have a crush on him but don't know how to be quiet at a comedy show because they don't know that that's a comedy show. To them, it's just a show.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Yeah. In the entertainment industry, we see. And we're gonna talk to somebody else about this, too, just in different genres. I guess with music talk about comedy, you see that people get rewarded for going viral or being popular. Van asked you about issues. Are you fearful of just the art of comedy because of social media or because of what might be rewarded by a network or a corporation?

[Ada Rodriguez]

You know, it's interesting there's a balance there because some people who would, especially people of color, black women, you know, brown women, women of color, queer people who would never get the opportunities because they wouldn't get booked if they have some solid standup and they go viral and they have an opportunity to really like. I look at Josh Johnson. Josh opened for me as jokes and notes on the south side of Chicago, and now he is surpassed, you know, all of us. But I think he's a good comic. He's so smart, and he's doing something specific that needs comedy. Needs. Because he's taking our current issues and he's feeding it to the masses in a way that they can digest. And I think that's brilliant. But I think that. Listen, the. But people who are funny on the Internet, that's an art form unto itself. I don't know how to do those comedy skits and edit them perfectly. I respect that, but I just ask that you do the same and respect our craft. Because when I did my first special, that was like 10 years of work that went into one hour of comedy that I felt was ready to give to the world. And so I think that it's important to respect people's craft. And we have to fight for art in this time where capitalism has gotten so toxic that it's just for consumption. And it's not. It's not it's not helping the arts. And arts is how we get through some of these tough times.

[Van Lathan]

You know, do you feel your politics isolating you from some of what's happening in comedy right now? The whole Austin thing, the mothership, the Rogan sphere of comedy, all of those guys are really, really fighting to move comedy sort of to the political right. You know, be as white and male as they possibly can. And we're coming here, women and trans people, and the R word and the N word. Any word that has a letter in front of it, they want to use it. So, like, do you feel like for you right now. Cause I know you're a big lefty like me. That's why we were up there with Francesca. Shout out to her. Is your political making you an outlier in comedy and endangering you in the space?

[Ada Rodriguez]

I mean, I've been endangered in this space since I stepped into it. Cause I'm a woman of color. I'm a brown woman, I'm a Puerto Rican Dominican woman that does stand up. And I don't, you know, the comedy that they expect from me is not the comedy that I give them. So. But the thing is, the framing that they're trying to move it back to or move it to the right is. I just think it's dangerous because it has always been there. Comedy started as a white man's, you know, one liner. That's what late night was. Which is why they don't, like, really have us or really push for us to be on these late night shows. Because we're telling the stories that are very different. Many of us are storytellers. So I think that we've always been here. Like, this is the reality that this is taking a turn for the worst. When I started doing stand up, I was. If I was on a show, I was gonna be the only woman on the show. There was never, you know, and it's like, if they have a. A queer person, then that's the diversity on the show. If there's a black person, that's the diversity on the show. The fact that we are seeing, you know, remnants of that. Not even remnants. We're. We're seeing it. It's becoming so popular again. It's what it's always been. And the. The idea that they're coming for us. They've always come for us. This isn't new to us. Like, you gonna tell me Samora shouldn't be a household name? And she. And she is to a lot of people, but shouldn't have. She shouldn't have to produce her own specials. And I respect that because she's self made and she creates her own stuff and she owns it. And there's a lot of power and ownership. Denzel Washington is our hero for telling us that. But I just think that, like, when you think about this idea that when you look at all of the stuff and you see, you know, how many people cry in my comedy shows because I'm the first person that looks or sounds like them to ever tell our story, they don't. There's, like, me and Gina Brion, which are, like, the only Puerto Ricans that are really, like, headlining nationally or whatever. And if there's anybody else, you can leave it in the comment section. I'm not. This is not a dissertation. This is just what I. What I know. But the. The truth is, is that it's always been this way. And for us to pretend like they're trying to move it back, it's always been. They've always said those words. They've always. They never stopped. And they pouted because they had to publicly stop saying it. But they were saying it at these comedies clubs, and a lot of black and brown people stood and are complicit in it. They watch it, they laugh it off. They think it's funny to get patted on the head. And now that we're suffering the consequences and we're seeing how dangerous that can be now, we're like, oh, my goodness. But they've always done this. They've always done it.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Patted on the head is hilarious. What excites you about comedy now? And even the future of comedy, the

[Ada Rodriguez]

Internet has brought people to light that were normally not seen on a national level. And to see the brilliance of new faces and some of the older faces that created the way for us that now that people. I'll look at Samora's comments sometimes, and I'll see these young women, women saying, oh, my God, like, I love her. Like, she's. It's really funny to see George Carlin trend on TikTok.

[Van Lathan]

And people saw it. Yeah.

[Ada Rodriguez]

And. And the kids are like, who this man got? And I'm like, y' all don't even know who that is. But it's. It's fun to see that some of. Sometimes the right people are getting the exposure that they need. You know, it's. It's. It's interesting to see women, you know, being able to be sexual because, like, I remember starting when I started doing standup, all of my comedy mentors and I have Some pretty big mentors. Don't be like, all the women and talk about sex and blah, blah, blah. All of the women being suppressed because the men are always talking about sex and nobody ever says anything. And it's all stock jokes. They all saying the same jokes. If I hear one more time about how women act when they get drunk and they're out in the club from another man. But, you know, to see women now feeling liberated to speak about whatever they wanna speak. People knowing who Marsha Warfield is now, who's like a goat to me and a hero. And I adore her.

[Van Lathan]

Night court, yes.

[Ada Rodriguez]

But also a brilliant standup, like, political, you know, social issues, queer woman, proud and just be. Just to see people now following her and saying, oh, my God, I love this lady. And I'm like, I've loved her my whole life. So welcome.

[Van Lathan]

You know, I thank my mom for that. Cause, like, I remember my mother used to always make me dive deeper. Like Bill and Ted's excellent adventure came out and George Carlin was Rufus. And my mother would go, that's Rufus right there. Like, rufus is George Carlin. George Carlin is Rufus. I'd be like, what the fuck? I would never say that to her, officer. But I'm like, what are you talking about? She's like, that guy is like a brilliant standup comic. And at that point, the only standup comics I knew, Prior Murphy, like, even, like, Redd Fox, I learned about him as a standup way after Bill Cosby learned about him as a standup, like, way after. I wasn't like, you see him on the Cosby show, and then you realize they do do comedy. But my mom would always say that. She'd say that about Marshall Warfield. She'd be like, the ladies, like, you see her on the show, but she's like a comic then. That's why she's really, really, really funny. But it wasn't as easy to just like, pull it up just then. Just kind of have to wait for it. Last question for me. Why did you do this to me? Why? Why did this happen?

[Ada Rodriguez]

You know what? I think there's a lot of stuff that you can get away with through a joke. I saw something with you on cnn, and of course it went viral because you. You were. You went straight ether on somebody on cnn. And I was like, that's a comedic point of point of view. Like, some people have that comedic rhythm and some people don't. And just like, Chris Spencer saw it in me and was like, I need you to go do open mic because you. This is what. I know a comic when I see one. I just think that it'd be interesting to hear your take because you always funny anyway. Even when you going in on these people and you talking about politics, it's still funny. And I think sometimes the information lands. Lands when it's funny because people can digest it better than when they're being chastised.

[Van Lathan]

You know, that's what Cheadle always says.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Oh, he tells you you're funny.

[Van Lathan]

No, no, no. He says, be fun. Cheetah always goes, hey, be funny when you say this stuff. Make sure that you're funny. He's like, the comedy, like, lets it digest into people's minds. So he always says, yeah.

[Ada Rodriguez]

I mean, how many people quote the goat? To me, my favorite person in comedy will always be Eddie Murphy. They say, never meet your heroes. I met Eddie Murphy and fell in love all over and over again. But being a Puerto Rican girl from the hood in Miami and in New York, hearing somebody say what, we would want McDonald's or we wanted to eat out. And my mom would be like, I got your McDonald's, and she would make the burger. It was so relatable. And, you know, I think that when you. Comedy just lands in a way. It's such a beautiful thing to hear people's laughter and to understand the impact you can have on some people. I've had people come up to me after a show and say, I never thought about it that way. Thank you for that. You open people's minds because you're disarming them. You were, you know, I mean, you're supposed to. Some of. Some of us don't do that. But I think it's just important to be able to have different ways of getting information to people. And look at Katt Williams and his insurgents.

[Van Lathan]

Oh, yeah, yeah, he's his insurgents. All right. We'll see what happens.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Where can anyone follow you, support you? When is this? When is this? Because we're never gonna get the information. You gotta tell me.

[Van Lathan]

It's Monday.

[Ada Rodriguez]

Monday. Look at. He's been sleeping. Thinking about it. May 4th at 7:00 clock at the Laugh Factory.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Do we have to buy tickets? We wait in line.

[Ada Rodriguez]

Funnyita.com, funny aida.com youm can go to the Netflix is a joke page and get your tickets. And listen, if you wanna see Van DM me, I will create a van section at the Laugh Factory. Just his own cheering or booing section. Whatever it is that you need, just DM me and I will make sure. Sure you are seated in that section, and I will also take bids.

[Van Lathan]

Love. Well, thank you. We'll see how it goes. I'm incredibly nervous.

[Rachel Lindsay]

I'm very excited for you, but, like, not in a trolling way. Like, I'm genuinely excited for you. I think this is a really cool thing. I couldn't do it.

[Ada Rodriguez]

I'll tell you what Chris Rock told me. I saw Chris Rock one time at the chocolate. No, he wasn't at chocolate sundaes. He was at the Laugh at, and he was pacing. And, you know, ADHD and anxiety are twins. I'm like, what's going on? I said, are you nervous? He said, yes. And he said, and when you stop being nervous, quit.

[Van Lathan]

Oh, wow.

[Ada Rodriguez]

So nervous is good, right?

[Van Lathan]

Okay, well, Rodriguez, when I fuck it up, just. It's right here. Thank you for joining us. We'll see you Monday. All right, real quick, Stephen A. Smith. All right, we got, like, we have to go five minutes. Stephen A. Smith was on First Take, and he was with Cheney. Did you see this?

[Rachel Lindsay]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

We're gonna do a higher learning outreach program right now. But before we get into this, Donny, I'm gonna introduce this segment. We're gonna show you the compliment that Stephen A. Smith gave to Chenay on the air. Okay. Gave to her on the air, Don.

[Ada Rodriguez]

Bonjour, Stephen A. Jean Appel Cheney y Rudy Gobert. Il est magnifique.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Ille magnifique.

[Ada Rodriguez]

He has been phenomenal. Rudy Gobert's defense. He's been magnificent.

[Van Lathan]

I hope I did all the French

[Ada Rodriguez]

people proud there with my pronunciation. I'm more of a Spanish girl.

[Duran Bernard]

You did. You did me proud.

[Ada Rodriguez]

I'm an Igbo girl.

[Duran Bernard]

You did me proud. You did me proud.

[Van Lathan]

I'm here to tell you I'm an Igbo girl, but I pivoted a little

[Duran Bernard]

bit because Rudy Gobert, Ila magnifier speak.

[Ada Rodriguez]

He's been fantastic.

[Duran Bernard]

I have to. I got to get a little personal here first for a second here. Shay and Cheney, I mean, you know, listen, listen. I'm living a good life.

[Van Lathan]

I'm pretty damn happy to say the least.

[Duran Bernard]

But I must admit, in all my

[Van Lathan]

years on this earth, I've never dated a woman from France or anything like that. But after hearing Janae, I was like, what have I been missing?

[Duran Bernard]

What have I been missing?

[Van Lathan]

I mean, that language, that verbiage right there, that. That kind of turned me on. Anyway, anyway, let me get back to

[Duran Bernard]

the focus, Sexy daddy.

[Van Lathan]

Okay, okay, real quick. Appropriate yes or no.

[Rachel Lindsay]

No.

[Van Lathan]

You don't think it's appropriate?

[Rachel Lindsay]

No. I know he's trying to be funny, but. Nah, I didn't land.

[Van Lathan]

You didn't. You didn't like it?

[Rachel Lindsay]

It teetered on the line.

[Van Lathan]

Is it appropriate to compliment your co workers?

[Rachel Lindsay]

Absolutely.

[Van Lathan]

Okay, so I think that it is as well. I think it's appropriate to compliment your co workers, which is why here on Higher Learning, we want to show you guys how you can compliment your co workers in a way that is appropriate and not like they turn you on and stuff like that.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Right.

[Van Lathan]

Would you like to start? You wanna start?

[Rachel Lindsay]

I can go first. Okay. Van, I really like the shirt that you're wearing today.

[Ada Rodriguez]

Wow.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Your midis aren't visible and it's loose enough to where, you know, the arm doesn't clap against the body.

[Van Lathan]

Thank you, Rachel.

[Rachel Lindsay]

You're welcome.

[Van Lathan]

You can't see my breasts today. I appreciate that. Rachel, your forehead looks nice today. Okay. The hat is not, you know, it's not prominent. It's not. You having a good forehead day to day.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Thank you. Oh, wow. Thank you.

[Van Lathan]

You're welcome.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Thank you. Look at us. Look at us. I got another one for you.

[Van Lathan]

Sure.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Van, you kept your rants today to under 15 minutes.

[Van Lathan]

Wow.

[Rachel Lindsay]

And I appreciate you for that. Making space for more. More of us in the podcast.

[Van Lathan]

I'm working. I'm on concise.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Very concise. That's concise for you.

[Van Lathan]

Appreciate you. Rachel, you were only 10 minutes late today and. Hold on. And you called and let us know.

[Rachel Lindsay]

I did today.

[Van Lathan]

She did today. It was fantastic.

[Rachel Lindsay]

I'm so glad you appreciate that. All right, one more. Van, you only interrupted me every. Every other sentence today and that makes me feel seen.

[Van Lathan]

Wow. Wow. Rachel, you've been hyper understanding to black men today, okay? And I would like to let you know that I feel seen. See how easy that is, Guys? Tear your think caps off, but do not stop learning. I AM Van Lathan Jr here I

[Rachel Lindsay]

am Rachel Lynn Lindsay and I see you black M. I do today and every day. Bye, guys.