Higher Learning with Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay

Episode: Memphis Bleek and Van Lathan (Not Jones), Plus Jimmy Kimmel’s Suspension

Date: September 19, 2025

Episode Overview

In this episode, Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay tackle major news and cultural flashpoints in Black culture, politics, and media. Van addresses his online feud with Memphis Bleek, which spiraled from a misidentification, and they dig deep into what it means to criticize cultural icons like Jay Z and Roc Nation. The hosts then dissect the unprecedented cancellation of Jimmy Kimmel Live in a shifting media/political landscape under Trump, hitting on themes of censorship, authoritarianism, and free speech. They wrap with sharp critique of the posthumous lionization of Charlie Kirk, the role of privilege and racism in commentary, new developments in the LeBron-Drake friendship saga, and contemporary tragedies linked to America’s fraught racial past.

Key Topics & Discussion Points

1. Memphis Bleek vs. Van Lathan: Misidentity, Loyalty, and Criticism

[01:41 – 13:06]

• Background: Van recounts an altercation with Memphis Bleek on social media, linked to past Higher Learning discussions on Jay Z and sexual assault allegations.
• Van’s response: Acknowledges his own harsh reply to Bleek, reflects on how he was “super disrespectful,” and the importance of self-improvement in handling online disputes.
  • Quote:
    “That right there is a poor showing from me. I can admit that. I can’t apologize because I got dissed for no reason. And it was in reaction.” — Van Lathan [02:35]
• Rachel probes Van’s self-reflection, highlighting the need for mindful communication.
• Misidentification: Van pieces together that Bleek confused him with Van Jones, who actually has ties to Roc Nation:
  • Quote:
    “Bleek thinks I’m Van Jones... I have never been to the Roc Nation brunch... I’m not a Roc Nationer.” — Van Lathan [06:57–07:12]
• Analysis of Black celebrity culture:
  • Discussions on Bleek's loyalty to Jay Z — both hosts agree this loyalty is admirable but point out that such closeness can breed overzealous defense against criticism.
• Rachel on research:
  • Frustration that Bleek and Shannon Sharpe’s podcast convo didn’t clarify identities.
  • Quote:
    “Somewhere between Memphis Bleek and Shannon Sharpe, there should have been a... ‘Could it be impossible that you meant this?’” — Rachel Lindsay [10:28]
• Larger theme: How Black celebrities and their defenders sometimes stifle legitimate critique by immediately positioning critics as outsiders or traitors.

2. The Complexity of Criticizing Jay Z and Roc Nation

[13:06 – 33:30]

• Fairness & responsibility: Van commends Roc Nation’s and Jay Z's contributions to activist causes—bailouts, charity, community support—while insisting this should not preclude fair criticism.
  • Quote:
    “Whenever I level any criticism of anyone, there’s always going to be a fairness that is attached to that. Always.” — Van Lathan [14:07]
• “Too Big To Fail”: The insulation Jay Z enjoys from public critique, especially in media and Black spaces, making accountability difficult.
• Personal experience: Van uses the example of learning from Diddy’s scandal that you should only vouch for people’s character if you know them deeply.
  • Quote:
    “If you are going to vouch for someone’s character... they had better be like fucking family to you.” — Van Lathan [17:02]
• Tidal & the culture/business tension:
  • Van admits he switched to Tidal out of solidarity with Jay and the “for us” message, but expresses frustration that Jay turned around and sold the platform, raising questions about mixing business and Black empowerment.
• Colin Kaepernick and the NFL:
  • Van criticizes how Jay Z’s partnership with the NFL was framed as moving “past kneeling,” which, in Van’s view, neutered a meaningful protest.
  • Quote:
    “What the kneeling was... was what American dissent is based on... and then Jay Z says we’re past it. Okay, can we talk about why we’re past it? Or are we just past it because you said so?” — Van Lathan [22:10]
• Billionaire Tables & the Trumps:
  • Discomfort with recent images of Jay Z and Beyoncé socializing with Jared Kushner and Ivanka Trump at a Reform Alliance gala.
  • Both hosts debate: Is there legitimacy in the presence of figures like Kushner, who helped with some criminal justice reforms? Or is this a betrayal of what Jay/Beyoncé purport to stand for?
  • Quote:
    “Maybe the conversation isn’t about why Jared Kushner and Ivanka Trump are at the table. Maybe the conversation is about if they should be.” — Van Lathan [32:00]
• Holding cultural leaders to account:
  • Rachel passionately argues that even as an ardent Beyoncé fan, she wants “to be able to question these things.”
  • Van concludes: If Black leaders aren’t open to scrutiny, “they aren’t leaders, they’re kings and queens. And that don’t work.” [33:13]

3. Jimmy Kimmel’s Suspension & The New Era of Censorship

[51:41 – 70:10]

• Jimmy Kimmel taken off-air: The hosts lay out how conservative-owned networks and FCC collusion, under Trump, have effectively canceled Jimmy Kimmel Live for criticisms of Charlie Kirk.
  • Rachel explains how powerful companies (Nextar, Sinclair) influence which shows air on local affiliates, especially important mid a pending $6.2 billion merger.
• Changing standards for speech: Discussion expands to the FCC as an arm of executive power, and the ramifications for free speech.
  • Quote:
    “They’re gobsmacked right now by the fact that the President of the United States could bend Paramount, CBS, ABC, Disney to his will. They didn’t think that this was possible.” — Van Lathan [57:58]
• Authoritarian trajectory: Rachel draws a timeline of creeping authoritarianism/fascism: control of media, attacks on reproductive/voting rights, Justice Dept. weaponization, politicization of science, and now, open censorship.
• Cancel culture hypocrisy: Van and Rachel note that conservative outrage against “cancel culture” was always disingenuous, as shown by their own history of de-platforming and silencing opponents (ex: Kaepernick, Jemele Hill).
• What can people do?:
  • Rachel urges listeners to pick an issue they care about and fight for it, emphasizing community and small-scale activism.
  • Van calls for a more informed, active, and courageous citizenry.
  • Quote:
    “If this society is going to change... it’s going to be you who saves it.” — Van Lathan [77:41]

4. The Danger of Lionizing Charlie Kirk and White Privilege in Media Commentary

[89:10 – 116:10]

• Critique of Breaking Points (Ryan Grimm & Emily Jashinsky):
  • Van and Rachel dissect a Breaking Points segment that, in their view, excuses or downplays Charlie Kirk's racist ideas after his assassination.
• Charlie Kirk’s own words:
  • The hosts play direct citations where Kirk claims prominent Black women (Ketanji Brown Jackson, Kamala Harris, etc.) “do not have the brain processing power” and only succeeded on affirmative action.
  • Quote:
    “What Charlie Kirk said is that we know that you’re not smart enough to do this on your own... you have to take a white person’s spot.” — Van Lathan [101:22]
• Rachel highlights media privilege:
  • She critiques the tendency of white commentators to minimize racism as “exaggerated,” noting only privilege can produce such blind spots:
  • Quote:
    “It really is a white privilege conversation... your privilege is allowing you to not see it any other way.” — Rachel Lindsay [107:09, 113:27]
• Turning Point USA’s culture:
  • Van reads from Ta-Nehisi Coates and details the explicitly racist and anti-Black environment fostered within Kirk’s organization.
• Bottom line:
  • Both hosts support denouncing political violence, but refuse to accept the whitewashing of racist legacies.
  • Van: “What do y’all want from us? I’m willing to decry, denounce political violence... but it has to stop short at a whitewashing... It has to stop short at that because if it doesn’t, my existence is minimized.” [116:10]
  • Rachel: “You’re telling us how we should feel.” [116:52]

5. Additional Segments & Notable Moments

On Recent Mississippi Hangings
[119:12–124:43]

• The hosts discuss two tragic deaths by hanging, one a Black student at Delta State, the other a white homeless man, and link these to America’s legacy of lynching. Rachel urges independent autopsy and vigilance, explaining why Black communities cannot take official findings at face value given history.

On LeBron James & Drake “Break-up”
[126:25–133:58]

• A lighter pop-culture capstone: LeBron’s diplomatic “wish him the best” comment signals a friendship split with Drake. Van notes that when someone “wishes you the best,” it’s definitely over.
• Extended riff on why the two gravitated together—both were questioned, never fully embraced as icons, and may have bonded over being “close but not like the ones that came before you.”

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• “That right there is a poor showing from me. I can admit that.” — Van Lathan [02:35]
• “Bleek thinks I’m Van Jones... I have never been to the Roc Nation brunch…” — Van Lathan [06:57]
• “Whenever I level any criticism of anyone, there’s always going to be a fairness that is attached to that. Always.” — Van Lathan [14:07]
• “What the kneeling was... was what American dissent is based on... and then Jay Z says we’re past it. Okay, can we talk about why we’re past it?” — Van Lathan [22:10]
• “If Black leaders aren’t open to scrutiny... then they’re kings and queens. And that don’t work.” — Van Lathan [33:13]
• “They didn’t think that this was possible... that the President could bend Paramount, CBS, ABC, Disney to his will.” — Van Lathan [57:58]
• “Our existence is minimized. And those messages are maximized.” — Van Lathan [116:52]
• “It really is a white privilege conversation... your privilege is allowing you to not see it any other way.” — Rachel Lindsay [107:09, 113:27]
• “If this society is going to change... it’s going to be you who saves it.” — Van Lathan [77:41]
• “When someone wishes you the best, it’s over.” — Van Lathan [128:41]

Timestamps for Key Segments

| Time | Topic | |---------------|--------------------------------------------------------------------| | 01:41–13:06 | Memphis Bleek feud, misidentification, Black celebrity loyalty | | 13:06–33:30 | Criticizing Jay Z & Roc Nation, Tidal, NFL-Kaepernick controversies| | 51:41–70:10 | Jimmy Kimmel’s suspension, media censorship, Project 2025 | | 89:10–116:10 | Breaking Points critique, Charlie Kirk, racism & media privilege | | 119:12–124:43 | Mississippi hangings, lynching legacy, Black vulnerability | | 126:25–133:58 | LeBron & Drake friendship, pop culture observation |

Tone & Style

• Candid and conversational: The episode oscillates between deep exasperation, pointed humor, careful nuance, and sharp cultural/political critique.
• Unapologetically Black: The hosts center Black experience and cultural context, pushing back on both white privilege and Black gatekeeping.
• Self-critical and open: Van especially models self-scrutiny when discussing past missteps or evolving beliefs.
• Community-minded: Repeated calls for listeners to get involved, stay informed, and reject cynicism or idol worship.

Closing Takeaways

• Question your heroes: Cultural icons serve the people, not the other way around. Don’t be cowed by loyalty that becomes blind defense.
• Authoritarian threats are real: Media censorship at the federal level is no longer abstract—active engagement, vigilance, and community action are essential.
• Privilege distorts the conversation: On race and history, white media figures often miss the lived reality of those most affected.
• Personal responsibility: The fight for justice and accountability—be it in politics or pop culture—falls to all of us.

For listeners who missed the episode: This summary delivers its central beats, illuminating current events, the slipperiness of power and perception in Black celebrity, and the urgent need for criticism—both self and collective—in a changing, often volatile America.