Navigating the Shutdown With Rep. Maxwell Frost! Plus, the WNBA's Bad Leadership, and Ray J Vs. the Kardashians. | Higher Learning | The Ringer

Summary

Podcast Summary: Higher Learning with Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay

Episode: Navigating the Shutdown With Rep. Maxwell Frost! Plus, the WNBA's Bad Leadership, and Ray J Vs. the Kardashians
Date: October 3, 2025
Produced by: The Ringer

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay dive into some of the week’s hottest topics at the intersection of Black culture, politics, and sports. The highlights include an in-depth interview with Rep. Maxwell Frost about the ongoing government shutdown, a pointed discussion about the leadership crisis in the WNBA, and a humorous, skeptical take on Ray J’s threats to the Kardashians. The episode is a mix of candor, sharp political analysis, and signature Higher Learning banter.

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1. Interview: Rep. Maxwell Frost Unpacks the Government Shutdown

[08:31–61:44]

Main Themes

• The real cause of the government shutdown
• The political maneuvering around healthcare and ACA subsidies
• Republican and Democratic messaging strategies
• The impact on working people: SNAP benefits, federal workers, Social Security, and Medicare
• The challenge of "woke" politics vs. kitchen table issues within the Democratic Party

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

• Why is the government shut down?
  Rep. Maxwell Frost lays the blame squarely on Donald Trump, arguing the shutdown is a direct tactic to force Democrats to cooperate on a bill that would strip millions of their healthcare coverage for the benefit of billionaires ([09:52]):

  "Donald Trump has decided to let the government shut down ... because he'd rather the government shut down than us do our job and ensure that working people don't get kicked off their healthcare." — Maxwell Frost ([09:52])

• Healthcare at the center:
  The shutdown is closely tied to the expiration of ACA tax credits. Millions are already getting letters that their healthcare costs will rise sharply if Congress does not act ([09:52–12:04]):

  "People as of October 1st started receiving their letters saying, your healthcare is going up 200%, 300%... There's no time to wait on this." — Maxwell Frost ([12:04])

• Democrats' refusal to "kick the can":
  Frost rebuffs Republican suggestions to delay the fight, insisting political procrastination is a core problem in Congress ([12:18]) and further accuses Republicans of inaction:

  "We're here to work. ... Politicians are still getting paid. So this whole notion of, 'yeah, let's just do it later,' it's just a load. It's a lot of shit." — Maxwell Frost ([12:18])

• Republican counter-arguments (SNAP, federal workers):
  Frost calls out Republican hypocrisy in blaming Democrats for disruptions to federal programs during the shutdown; he notes Republicans have already cut SNAP benefits and fired federal workers ([16:11]):

  "Now, you're caring about SNAP benefits? Y'all passed the bill that ripped away SNAP benefits from millions of people ... So spare me that." — Maxwell Frost ([16:11])

• Effective messaging in the age of misinformation:
  Rachel notes the difficulty for Democrats to keep their message clear against a backdrop of simplistic, often false Republican talking points ([18:58]). Frost agrees, advocating for direct, simple language that appeals to everyday experiences, especially around healthcare ([20:36]):

  "It's less about talking at people and trying to explain something to them. This is something people already know in their hearts ..." — Maxwell Frost ([20:36])

• On the “Democrats want to give immigrants healthcare” narrative:
  Frost fact-checks the right-wing claim, clarifying that federal law already prohibits undocumented immigrants from receiving federal health benefits. He accuses Trump of scapegoating immigrants to distract from policies benefiting the wealthy ([24:34]):

  "The reason why your healthcare is being threatened right now is not because of an immigrant. ... It's Donald Trump trying to scratch the back of people who have the same bank account as he does." — Maxwell Frost ([24:34])

• Maintaining party unity:
  Despite a handful of Democratic senators breaking ranks, Frost says grassroots energy and constituent outreach is keeping Democrats focused and united ([25:57]).

• The “hospital match” and care for undocumented people:
  Frost explains hospitals must stabilize dying patients, regardless of immigration status. Federal reimbursement exists for only these emergency situations ([27:14]):

  "If a human walks to the hospital and they're dying ... we're going to get them that medical care." — Maxwell Frost ([28:03])

  Van amplifies this moment:

  "We're explaining to you why it's a good idea ... to take care of somebody who might be dying. Because ... there are going to be people who ... make it into a societal evil." — Van Lathan ([28:03])

• How can the shutdown be ended?
  Frost points out that Republicans could override Democratic opposition by changing rules in the Senate—if they really wanted to. He claims Republicans want Democratic complicity so they can later externalize blame for rising healthcare costs ([32:12]).

• Moral clarity and calling out hypocrisy:
  Van pushes Frost on whether he believes Republicans care if their constituents die because of policy choices ([35:24]). Frost gives a candid answer based on his organizing and legislative experience:

  "I'm not as interested in what you say. I'm interested in what you do, and I'm interested in what you don't do." — Maxwell Frost ([36:24])

  He recalls the ritual of inaction after mass shootings and grimly concludes that political empathy from Republicans often vanishes at the voting board ([36:41–39:06]).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "It's not illegal [to change Senate rules], but they want our votes on it. And if you want our votes on it, you're going to have to make sure that 25 million people aren't going to either lose their healthcare or have it go up insane amounts." — Maxwell Frost ([33:46])

• "What you would expect in this conversation is that someone at least listened to you ... That does not seem to be what she did." — Van Lathan (later, regarding WNBA leadership [73:00])

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Timestamps & Segment Highlights

• [09:52] – Frost explains why the shutdown is happening
• [12:04] – On immediate impact for, and urgency among, ordinary Americans
• [16:11] – SNAP and federal worker rhetoric by Republicans countered
• [20:36] – On Democratic messaging, directness, and misinformation
• [24:34] – Addressing the right’s “healthcare for immigrants” accusation
• [28:03] – Defense of hospital care for dying undocumented patients
• [36:24] – Frost on the moral implications and real-world effects of policy

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Three Issues to Vote on (Frost’s List)

[56:16–61:44]

1. Healthcare: Seek candidates with transformative healthcare visions—if it sounds like a big departure from today’s broken system, it’s probably relevant.
2. Housing: Support bold federal solutions; Frost calls housing a human right and highlights the need for regulation of exploitative corporate landlords.
3. Wealth Inequality/Economic Mobility: Vote for politicians who have a concrete plan to tackle the chasm of wealth inequality and ensure that economic growth benefits working people, not just the wealthy few.

"You know, I talk with a lot of food banks locally. ... They say 10 years ago, it was people in poverty that would line up ... Who's lining up now? Mom and dad in the minivan with the kid." — Maxwell Frost ([60:30])

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2. WNBA’s Leadership Under Fire

[64:56–91:35]

Main Themes

• Nafisa Collier, VP of the Players Association, publicly criticizes WNBA commissioner Kathy Engelbert for poor leadership and lack of accountability.
• Issues cited: inconsistent and dangerous officiating, dismissiveness toward player concerns, and an attitude that players should be “grateful.”
• Larger critique: The WNBA’s leadership, despite burgeoning popularity and visibility, still treats its athletes as dispensable.

Key Moments & Quotes

• Collier’s statement ([65:40; paraphrased for length]):
  "The real threat to our league isn't money ... It's the lack of accountability from the league office. ... Year after year, the only thing that remains consistent is a lack of accountability from our leaders."
  “Her [Engelbert’s] response was, 'only the losers complain about the refs.' ... She told me players should be on their knees thanking their lucky stars for the media rights deal I got them.”

• Van’s take ([72:16]):

  "Kathy looking like a female sambo in these streets... what it looks like is that it's a women's league and it's run by a woman, and that a woman is there at the behest of other corporate people to control costs in the league and keep the workplace ... in check."

• Rachel’s emphasis:

  “It's not just who's saying it. ... It's how she said what she said. ... The person who is in leadership ... doesn't care about us, period.”

• The hosts debate whether the lack of “care” is unique, with Van arguing that, while most sports commissioners are corporate agents, the disrespect for work product—telling star athletes they’re lucky to even have a league—is specific and egregious in this case ([76:28–90:55]):

  "The fact that she would just say, 'Hey, you know what, Caitlin Clark should be happy that a WNBA exists for her.' That’s profound." — Van ([82:20])

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Timestamps

• [65:40–69:36] – Collier’s prepared statement and fallout
• [72:16–91:35] – Hosts’ analysis of league power dynamics and comparative sports labor politics

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3. Ray J vs. The Kardashians: Legal Drama & Cultural Commentary

[92:26–102:15]

Main Themes

• Ray J claims to be working with federal authorities on a RICO case against Kim Kardashian and Kris Jenner, prompting a rare defamation lawsuit from the Kardashians.
• Van and Rachel express skepticism, noting it’s common for celebrities to let wild accusations slide—or to sue only as a last resort.

Key Moments & Quotes

• Rachel calls out Ray J’s outlandish claims:

  "I've never heard anybody announce that they were working with the feds like that." — Rachel ([93:38])

• On the Kardashians' lawsuit:

  "All the years they've been in business, all the years that they've been scrutinized and under attack ... Never once have they sued for defamation until now. That says a lot." — Rachel ([95:56])

• Van reflects:

  "If you're knowingly saying things about people and it's not true for clout ... then you probably gotta get sued." ([101:09])

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Timestamps

• [92:26–102:15] – Ray J’s wild statements, lawsuit context, and the hosts’ mock-legal analysis

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4. Pop Culture & Listener Q&A Roundup

[104:13–115:16]

Talking Points

• Van’s honest ignorance about Bad Bunny, leading to a pointed list of what the Puerto Rican superstar should do at the forthcoming Super Bowl halftime show (including commentary on wrestling, reggaeton, political protest, and LGBTQ+ representation).
• Quick mentions: Van’s old-school music tastes, Rachel’s Bad Bunny favorites, and the community’s ties to the artist in NY.
• Gavin Newsom possibly coming on as a guest. Audience input requested.
• Banter about celebrities, interviews, and the hosts’ vibe in NYC.

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Notable Quotes

Van on the coming Super Bowl halftime:

"[Bad Bunny should do] some type of wrestling shit ... some type of ice shit ... some type of gay shit. ... Make America confront its archaic and dehumanizing homophobia." ([110:23])

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Timestamps

• [104:13–111:06] – Bad Bunny Super Bowl suggestions
• [112:57–115:16] – NYC banter, prospective guests, closing thoughts

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Memorable Quotes, Attributed

• "I'm not as interested in what you say. I'm interested in what you do, and I'm interested in what you don't do." — Maxwell Frost ([36:24])
• "What you would expect in this conversation is that someone at least listened to you. ... That does not seem to be what she did." — Van Lathan ([73:00])

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Conclusion

A packed episode of Higher Learning, balancing rigorous political discussion, especially around the government shutdown, with a sharp social lens on sports and entertainment. Through the eyes of Rep. Maxwell Frost, the shutdown is exposed as a fight for—and about—America’s working poor and their health rights. Meanwhile, the conversation about the WNBA’s leadership highlights deep structural and cultural inequities persisting even as women’s sports boom. The episode rounds out with the duo’s signature mix of sharp-tongued humor, pop culture commentary, and genuine curiosity.

Listeners walk away with:

• Clarity about the causes of the shutdown and its effects on working Americans
• An inside look at high-stakes battles for respect—whether in Congress, women’s sports, or Black celebrity culture
• The sense that behind headlines and soundbites, deeper struggles for fairness, dignity, and accountability are always at play

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Transcript

[A]

Yo, yo, yo. Thought Warriors. What is up? I learned his own as Ivan Lake Jr.

[B]

And it's me, Rachel.

[A]

We got. We got Maxwell Frost joining us. We're going to talk about the shutdown with Maxwell Frost. We're going to bring him in to talk about the shutdown. He is a Democratic congressman from Florida, one of the young guns there, and we're gonna talk to him. It was a good conversation. Don't you think so, Rachel?

[B]

It was a great conversation.

[A]

Yeah. Fun. Talked a little bit about housing.

[B]

No, no, no, no. We didn't. We did not talk about it. Really. We didn't talk about our issues. You versus me on it. Really? You versus everybody?

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

Do you have any supporters in this?

[A]

Well, yeah, a lot of people.

[B]

Other than squatters?

[A]

No. A lot of people to the left of, you know, people like yourself might. Might say that in a rigged system, they don't care if you steal what you need. And, you know, like, in a rigged system, like, to me, I look at someone and they're hungry, and they steal some bread, and I go, oh, that makes a lot of sense. They're hungry, so they stole the bread. And then, you know, Rachel comes along. Jail. Get.

[B]

I'm not even getting into this with you. I'm not even getting into this with you. I'm not. We've been here before. I don't want to hear it. Thought warriors don't want to hear it.

[A]

It's hard, you know? It's hard.

[B]

Maxwell Frost didn't want to hear it.

[A]

Maxwell Frost was good on it. He actually gave us.

[B]

But he did not. He did not pick a side.

[A]

Well, he can't pick a side because he actually has to fix the problem.

[B]

Right, right. Which is what I wanted.

[A]

Well, no, that's not what you wanted. What you want is you can't steal what you get to jail. But Rachel, we've talked about Rachel.

[C]

That's right.

[B]

I said this. Yeah.

[A]

Okay. Can I be honest with you? Can I be honest with you about something? Because I said before that you come from a prosecuting family. Right.

[B]

You said that.

[A]

And people were like, van, what about your family? I come from a family of criminals. And that's just the way. That's the thing. I come from a family of criminals. Almost everybody that I. They not gonna like this, but they've been involved in crime. They've done crime. Mama's somewhere right now, and Mama's like, why are you putting me in this? And I'm just saying there was a memory that I have of going to A courtroom. And.

[B]

You testified.

[A]

Not me.

[B]

Oh.

[A]

Other people that might have been in my house with me, that raised me, and. Cause I remember, like, sitting down in this, and my dad was like, I was getting crazy in the courtroom, and I wouldn't stay still. And my dad was like, hey, come here. He's like, if you don't calm down in the court right now. You see that man right there? And he pointed to the bailiff, to the sheriff, and he was like, that man gonna take you away. And then I was like, oh, shit. And I straightened up. So I come from a family of criminals, of people, lots of jails and stuff like that. So I. Probably on that side, I'm probably a little bit too. Not too forgiving, too. Absolutely.

[B]

One person in my family. One person in my family that works for the government.

[A]

Cool. But he's very. But he's high up.

[B]

There's one person that's high.

[A]

He's high up.

[B]

There are more people in my family who have been involved but with criminal activity than there are with the government.

[A]

He's high up. He's high up. I just feel like it permeates. It permeates. And so, by the way, you.

[B]

You create your own narratives, and that's fine. I'm used to that on the podcast. You. You create your own narratives.

[A]

Tmz, like, I could literally, if I.

[B]

You're great at what you do. Nine years.

[A]

I like, I is. I. I. Yeah, for sure.

[B]

You rose to the top.

[A]

But until they. Until they show me how they can create.

[B]

You rose to the nigger.

[A]

Get out.

[B]

You played. You. You did well.

[A]

I did well. Then they went, hey, hey, we've had enough. Beat it, Skippy. Hey, hey, hey, hey. We love what you said to Kanye. Get out.

[B]

We've milked it as long as we can. Your time is up.

[A]

There's no. Hey, Van, the token. It's not going into the slot anymore, okay? We're spitting the token back out. Get the fuck out.

[B]

I got a new one.

[A]

You know what's funny? It's funny about that. It's like, think about just one of the great blessings of my life. Was that happening at the time that it did? It was perfect timing. Everything was divinely in motion. But just think about having an altercation or an argument with a coworker, leaving and then never going back. I remember the HR lady was like, do you want. I think I said this before. Do you want us to send you the stuff from your office? And I was like, no, keep it. Do you regret that I Do regret one thing.

[B]

Okay?

[A]

I had, like a lion statue that I had, and he was a cool lion. And I would decorate him and give him different. He was like. He was a hoot nanny. He was like mine. He was a hoot nanny for me. And hoot nanny's over there. Did you see?

[B]

There's two.

[A]

There's two hoot nannies now.

[B]

I don't know where this little one came from. I just turned around and saw it.

[A]

There's a hoot. Grab him. There's a hoot Nanny Jr. Don't see. See? But I bet you put him in jail, though. See you guys. A moment. Assaj Shakur passed away. And that was earlier in the week. Now, we talked about this on the Midnight Boys a little bit. We talked about it. Let's talk about it. Talking about other things. But it is very important that we take a pause and just remember the life of Assata Shakur. She passed away in Cuba. She fled there in 1979 after escaping prison, after being what I believe to be wrongfully convicted of the murder of a state trooper, her conviction of the murder and her subsequent subsequent escape. I'm not going to read all the things. I'm not going to read all the things. What I'm going to tell you guys is I encourage all of you to learn about the life and the aims and goals of Assaj Kaur and people like her. There is a history and a legacy in this country of voices that sought directly to change the world. And they were willing to pay the cost for that. They were willing to take the risk for that, and they were willing to do the work for that. And that is the type of life that you should take a moment to investigate, to explore, and to remember once it is gone. So we just want to say that here at Higher Learning. Rachel.

[B]

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[A]

All right, Maxwell Frost. Now, the government is shut down. As we're watching this, as you're watching this or listening to this, the government is shut down. The question is why? The question is what has to happen for the government to reopen question is also what has to happen for people to vote and caucus with politicians that have their best interests at heart. And I feel like Maxwell Frost answered all of those questions while we had them all.

[B]

Oh, and more. Yeah.

[A]

All right, so rather than us going to it, we're going to get into the entire happenings of today with a nice meaty interview with Maxwell Frost right now. Enjoy it, you guys. We promised he would be joining us, and he is joining us today. Maxwell Frost, politician, serving Florida's 10th congressional district since 2023. The first member of Generation Z to serve in the United States Congress. We say this every time he's here. He's only been here once before, but he's also a member of Phi Beta Sigma.

[C]

Yes, sir.

[A]

Phi Beta Sigma. Look, he's doing the whole little thing right there. Rachel Rose, the Sigma. He talks about it all the time.

[B]

Yes, yes.

[C]

Yeah, it's not too late, man.

[B]

I say this all the time. I say this. It's not too late for you to flesh. That's right. Work them.

[A]

So what? You work them.

[B]

Oh, man, come on. We have a congressman on the show. Get it together.

[A]

That's nuts. Maxwell. Okay, we have you on at a perfect time because a lot of Americans are wondering right now, what is going on? I got a text yesterday morning and it was from somebody I know and the text was early and it just said, why is the government shutting down? If someone were to ask you that question, what would be your answer?

[C]

It's very simple. So Donald Trump has decided to let the government shut down. Why? He is letting the government shut down because he rather the government shut down than us do our job and ensure that working people don't get kicked off their health care. And here's why. Essentially, at the end of this year, what's called the Affordable Care act tax credits are going to expire. What does that mean? It means health care costs are going to go up for people anywhere from 50 to 300% if we do nothing about it. In this bill to fund the government, people are receiving the letters right now. And what that means in people's daily life is it means I might have to move because I have to pay more for health care next year. It might mean I have to spend less at the grocery store because I have to pay more for health care next year. Or in many cases, it's literally a case of life or death. Maybe I can't get this treatment. Maybe I have to ration my medication. Maybe I have to ration my insulin. And that is the reason the government is shut down right now, it's over healthcare. And Democrats, we have said we're not gonna vote for a bill that doesn't handle this crisis that we're in. Remember that big beautiful bill they passed? I called the big beautiful bill for billionaires. What that bill does is it kicks 17 million people off of their health care to give tax breaks to billionaires and mega corporations. What they want to do with this bill to fund the government is enable that and then make it worse for people by raising costs for 25 million Americans. So the government has shut down because Donald Trump would rather it shut down than us actually do stuff for working people and keep people's health care where it is. And that's where we're at. That's why the government shut down. It's the rich people helping rich people. It's billionaire Donald Trump trying to help other billionaires get rich and everyone else being screwed over because of it.

[B]

So I've seen this argument about the timing of the shutdown, right? Because I've seen people say, why? Or I guess my question to you is why is right now the time? Because I've seen people say, hey, the Democrats could have, since it's not expiring till the end of the year, the Democrats could have extended this another seven weeks and tried to negotiate without disrupting the ACA policies.

[C]

But.

[B]

But instead they decided to shut it down. Right now it seems like it is bigger than just healthcare. Why did the Democrats decide right now rather than extending it another seven weeks and trying to negotiate without disrupting anything? Cuz I've seen Republicans say that.

[C]

Let's be clear, we're not disrupting anything, right? I mean, who runs the government? Donald Trump is in the White House. He's the President. They run the House of Representatives and they run the Senate. They literally run the whole federal government. So if they want to pass a bill that'll take away healthcare from people, they can do it on their own. I don't know why they would expect Democrats, people who believe we need to expand healthcare, to vote for a bill that doesn't address the fact that a lot of people are about to lose their healthcare. The other thing though, that I think is important to know is this isn't something we can kick the can down. This argument that people say, well, let's just do it later. What? Like, it's interesting because Congress is like the only job where like you feel like you can just do your job later. Politicians are like, yeah, we'll clock in later. We'll clock in at the end of the year. People as of October 1st started receiving their letters saying, your health care is going up 200%, your health care is going up 300%. They're already getting the letters, so there's no time to wait on this. I don't like. I don't get it. And, you know, just a couple days ago, the day the government shut down, we were in D.C. all the Democrats were there. We told the Republicans, come up, let's figure it out now. We don't need weeks to figure this out. We need a day. A day of hard work, and we can figure this out so we can save people's healthcare and keep the government open. Guess how many Republicans showed up. Just one. And the only reason he showed up is to open the floor and then close the floor, and then he ran out. So we were there, locked in, ready to work. And so it just goes to show that there's no other job where you can say, I don't want to clock in. I'm a clock in at the end of the year, like, what the hell is that? We're here to work. And during this government shutdown, politicians are still getting paid. So this whole notion of, yeah, let's just do it, and then, trust me, bro, we'll get to it, it'll all be okay. It's just. It's a load. It's a lot of shit. And essentially we're here to say we're standing up for working people. We're going to make sure people's health care isn't taken away. Republicans run the whole government. They could keep funding it if they wanted to by themselves, but they're not doing it. And it's because they want Democrats to vote yes on a bill that essentially is going to take away health care from people. We're not going to do that. This president thinks, like, he can do anything he wants with no repercussions, and that's why he's allowing the government to shut down, essentially because he'd rather do that than help us save people's health care. And that's why we're at this place, where we're at now. People are asking me, what's next? Here's what's next. It's in the president's hands. There is no speaker of the House. There is no leader of the Senate. Those guys are just lap dogs for Trump. They just do whatever Trump wants. So Trump has to get up and say, all right, Democrats, come back to D.C. let's work on it together. We'll actually be here this time, and we'll actually negotiate with you to figure out how we save people's health care. Until he does that, we're going to be in this situation in the government that he runs.

[A]

Both Senator Thune and Speaker Johnson say that the negotiations around continuing or expanding or extending the ACA subsidies could have been had. Could have been had at a later time, like Rachel said, without disrupting the federal government, shutting down the federal government and immiserating people. They talked about SNAP benefits. They talked about tsa. They talk about furloughing workers, firing some workers. They're blaming the Democrats for taking away people's SNAP benefits while this happens, for firing federal workers while this happens. All other things that a government shutdown ends up resulting in. When you hear that, I guess, assessment, what do you say?

[C]

I say two things. Number one, now you're caring about SNAP benefits. Y' all pass the bill that ripped away SNAP benefits from millions of people permanently. Not temporarily. Permanently. You're the ones that have been firing federal workers left and right, left and right, so spare me that. Right. That's them just trying to score political points. When we're talking about whether people can afford to live or die, when we're talking about whether people can afford to go to the doctor, like, I believe in this country, healthcare should be a human right. We have a lot of work to get there. But not only do they not even want to talk about that, they don't even talk about keeping the status quo. They want to, like, make it worse. The other thing, too, that I think is really important to keep in mind is they keep saying, this isn't the time. This isn't the time. We've been talking about this for months. We've been saying the deadline's coming up. We need to do something about the health care deadline. Not just the tax credits, but also the fact that you ripped away health care from 17 million people in the big, ugly bill. So that's what we got to talk about. If you want Democrats to vote for a funding bill, we have to fix this stuff. We've been saying it. We've been trying to negotiate. They have not negotiated with us on it. And it's not on some. Like, it's not on some process thing where, well, they didn't come to us, and so we voted no on the bill. That's not what we're saying. What we're saying is they are not handling a crisis in front of us where people are going to lose health Care. And we're not going to vote on a bill that's going to allow them to just continue like nothing's going on. When 25 million people are getting a letter in the next few weeks saying you're going to be paying 50%, 100%, 300% more for your healthcare. That's not what we're about. So yeah, we're exerting our power. When you don't have all the power you want, you use all the power you got. We're not the ones shutting down the government because we don't run the government. The Republicans run all three parts of the federal government. And it's really up to Trump to say, let's get back to D.C. and let's figure it out. I promise you, man, a lot of times politicians will make it seem like we got to get in the nitty gritty to figure it out. It's going to take weeks. Lies. One day everyone comes back. You can figure it out in one day how we're going to extend it. In fact, all they have to do is if they said, let's just extend the tax credits, let's reverse some of what happens so people don't lose their health care, we don't have even more of a health care crisis in this country. They probably get the boats that are needed to open the government, but they don't want to do that. And that's why we're in this situation right now. But don't let Donald Trump or Mike Johnson Gaslight. You talking about snap? I can talk about snap. Y' all ripped away SNAP from millions of people permanently to give billionaires a tax break. So if they wanna talk about snap, I'm happy to talk about snap.

[B]

I wanna talk to you about the messaging. Cuz that's been a lot of talk I've seen on specifically on morning TV today, JD Vance stood up and flat out lied about what it is that Democrats are wanting in regards to health care and illegal immigrants. Just, just lied. And when you see something like that, it almost makes it feel like the Democrats have to be on the defense of, you know, here's another lie. This is actually the truth rather than focusing on a particular message. And I know that we've done this on this podcast and we've talked about the Democrats and their messaging and it always seems like the Republicans. And because it's a lie, it's just very simple in what they say. Do you think that the messaging is right here in order for the public to receive exactly what's Going on. Yes, of course it's about healthcare. Yes, it's about them taking money away from other, from other agencies and things of that nature. Yes, it's about firing federal employees or furloughing them and all of those things. But can't the message just be, we are trying to limit the president's power as it is moving towards an authoritarian power and listing the chaos that Donald Trump is in the administration, and particularly calling out congresspeople, senators, and the President itself about what it is particularly that they're doing that has led us to this point, rather than just focusing on healthcare or on the defense of the lives of the Republicans. Sorry, that was a lot. I hope that made sense.

[C]

No, no, no, no, I get what you're saying. I mean, the fact of the matter is there's a million things we could talk about, right? Occupation of our cities, ICE terrorizing communities and kidnapping people. I mean, we can go on and on, on things. I think the reason we're really honing on healthcare here is because it is such a, an immediate thing that no matter if you're a Democrat or Republican, no matter what your position is on certain policies, you're getting the letter. Like, I just spoke with a constituent mine, literally right before this interview who said she just got hers is going up 100% for her starting early next year. And so it becomes very real for people, even for people who aren't paying attention to a lot of the day to day stuff. And I know it's weird for social people like us to be like, who's not paying attention? A lot of people aren't paying attention, but they're gonna be paying attention when they receive a letter saying their healthcare is gonna cost double the next year. And that undercuts what this guy ran on. Exactly. Because what he ran on was saying, I'm a lower cost for you. I'm gonna transform this country to work for working people. But he's doing the opposite thing. It's not that we shouldn't talk about the authoritarianism, the illegal stuff he's doing. You know, there's some people who want us to believe there's two things going on. On one end, you have occupation of cities, using the National Guard on people, ice, the expansion of the prison industrial complex, that's one thing. And then on the other hand, you have the health care fight. You have him taking away boots or nutritional systems and snap to give money to billionaires. These aren't two different stories. They're the same story. Because the only way in this country that you do this thing, rip away those resources from working people and just give it to the rich and not feel like you're going to feel the repercussions of the politics and people on the streets is by doing the other thing, by scaring them in the submission, by making people feel like they don't have power in this moment when they actually do. So I think it's important to talk about both, but to what you mentioned, I think it's important that we're very simple and direct with the message that we're delivering. Because you're right, there's going to be a lot of misinformation and disinformation at this time about what's going on now. And these guys are just going to lie. And our message is very, very, very simple. And it's less about talking at people and trying to explain something to them. This is something people already know in their hearts that there are politicians working make the rich richer and the poor poor and where do you stand? And all we're doing is connecting the dots. That's what's going on right now in terms of your healthcare. We all know this healthcare system is broken. We have a sickness care system, we don't have a healthcare system. And it's an opportunity for us to talk about it directly to people. And it's working. If you look at all the numbers, the majority of this country puts the blame of this on the Republicans and it's not just a blame game thing, it's a righteous fight to be fighting for the health of our people. But I get what you're saying. I mean, I think we have to talk about it all. But if I boil it down to a sentence, I'm gonna focus it in on something that really, it really speaks to Democrats, Republicans, Independents, everyone, people who don't pay attention to politics. Everybody gets how screwed over we're being on healthcare currently and the fact that these people want to make it worse.

[A]

And something you can deliver a win on, that's an easy clear cut win. Rachel mentioned the Republican messaging coming out of this, which is that this fight is actually from their perspective over the Democrats wanting to get give equal healthcare benefits to migrants, illegal migrants that have come over from primarily through the southern border. They are plastering that everywhere. You're starting to see it erode a little bit as it gets ruthlessly fact checked everywhere. But that is the messaging and the language that's coming out of the riot right now. What do you say to that?

[C]

Number one, it isn't a federal law right now that if you're in here in the country and you're undocumented, you cannot receive federal healthcare benefits. That's in the law. Right. But the second thing I'll say here is this is part of Donald Trump's bigger mission that's been the mission of authoritarians and billionaires for a long time, which is for us to blame our problems on our neighbors and people around us and looking around instead of looking up. The reason why your health care is being threatened right now is not because of an immigrant. The reason why your health care is being threatened right now is because Donald Trump is trying to scratch the back of people who have the same bank account as he does. And that is what's going on right now has nothing to do with immigrants. And I'm not going to fall into this trap of trying to smack talk immigrants in a moment where, look, your bank account probably looks a lot similar, more similar to this to make it kind of your immigrant neighbor than it does to someone like Donald Trump. And we have to stand together as working people to fight against us. And that's why we're standing 10 toes down in this fight and why we're calling on the president to help us ensure that people don't lose their health care.

[B]

Are you worried about losing a united front? I mean, I know three senators, Democrat, well, two Democrats, one Independent, voted against the shutdown. Are you worried about breaking the front?

[C]

I feel good about it as of now. I think, like, you know, they've already done three votes on it in the Senate, as we know, in March didn't go that well. So I think what I've heard from that side so far leads me to believe that our Senate colleagues are in this with us in the House. I feel really good. I've spoken with very, very centrist and moderate colleagues of mine, ones that are in districts that Trump won, and they're hearing from their own constituents in a district that Donald Trump won that they're doing the right thing. And I think it's good that people are have, you know, we were in D.C. ready to work. A lot of people have gone to the district to hear from the people. And what I'm hearing from people, from the phone calls and text threads on my end, is people feel even more energized because they have folks coming up to them who didn't vote for them, so saying, thank you for fighting for my healthcare. And I think there's no poll greater than, like, being at home and hearing from your own people.

[A]

Can you explain the hospital match to people, the federal hospital match, in terms of the funds and how the federal government allocates those funds to hospitals that perform emergency services on migrants and hospitals that don't. And the way they're politicizing that and using that just because people are going to hear some of that in the next couple of days too.

[C]

Well, part of what's going on is they are trying to take certain policies that exist and try to make it into something that it's not. So let me say what it's not. Right now, in federal law, we do not provide. The federal government does not provide federal health benefits or health insurance to people who are undocumented. But the fact. Or. No, but period. And the fact of the matter is right now, if you have somebody go into a hospital that might be undocumented or who doesn't have insurance, who is dying and essentially needs to be taken care of, it is law in this country that our hospitals will help any human that comes in, no matter who they are. And my hope is everyone listening here would agree with that, that if a human walks to the hospital and they're dying, they need medical care, we're going to get them that medical care.

[A]

Can we pause that real quick? Yeah, just real quick. I'll tell you why I'm jumping in. I want everybody to digest that moment. Yeah, digest the moment. That things are at such a point right now to where we're explaining to you why it's a good idea and why it makes our society a good society to take place to take care of somebody who might be dying. Because if Maxwell says that we are going to take care of somebody who might be going through a life threatening illness, that there are going to be people who. That are going to politicize that and make it into a societal evil. So even the way we're discussing this just kind of gives you a scope of the grotesque time that we're in right now. But I just want to interject that.

[C]

Yeah, I appreciate it. And the fact of the matter is there's a lot of people who've been learning the wrong lessons from the last election. A lot of people don't know right now a path to citizenship for undocumented people is the most popular it's ever been in this nation's history. Why? Because people have seen the cruelty towards people who are undocumented in this country, most of whom who've been in this nation for 10 years. That's why. To the earlier question when you were asking about this Same thing. Part of why they're doing it is they're trying to divide Democrats and they want to get us in a place where we're smack talking undocumented people. Right. I'm not going to fall into that trap. The real problem here is they're trying to have us blame our problems on other working people rather than those who are running the government, which I think is important. But back to the hospital match. What this is about is if you have a human who goes on a hospital and they are dying, they are dying and they need to be stabilized, our nation, and you want to talk about American exceptionalism, this is part of that. We have decided as a nation that if you walk into the hospital, whether you have insurance or not, no matter what your documentation is, you, we're going to make sure that you're stabilized and that you don't die. And there is a very limited form of our health care system in the federal government that reimburses hospitals for the stabilization of people who are literally on the brink of dying. That is all it is. It's not health care. It's not like appointments and making sure people are healthy. This is literally a thing where if someone comes in and they are dying, that we will help make sure that they're stabilized. And this is the thing that they're trying to say is giving health insurance people who are undocumented. But again, it's not undocumented people's fault that we're even in this fight and that the government shut down. It's Donald Trump's fault.

[A]

So as you guys are hearing this, just real quick, I know Rachel's about to jump in. I want you to think of the alternative. The alternative is this man lady child has heart attack, has seizure, goes into hospital, is seconds minutes away from being gone. And what we are doing, rather than saving this human being's life, is determining their citizenship. Just ask yourself if that's what you want. I'm not gonna go on the whole thing. Just ask yourself if that's what you want, because that's the decision that hospitals are going to have to make if they are bullied by Donald Trump and the rest of his wing of American politics to put a stranglehold on federal funds that go to hospitals that provide that type of care. That's what they're talking about. All right, I'm out. No more. No more.

[B]

No, it's a good point. It's a good point. It's a good point. To break it down. Trump has shown us that he doesn't play by the rules or that the rules don't even apply to him. Is there any way that he can circumvent this, that he can move past this? Is there any to where he can reopen the government, do what he wants? Is there a way that he can dismiss the things that the Democrats are asking for? Is. Is that even possible?

[C]

Yeah. I mean, there's a way that's kind of right in front of us that breaks norms, which they've done, but doesn't necessarily break the law. The Senate can essentially do a vote to get rid of the filibuster for the one vote, and then the Republicans should just vote party line on them. You have to ask yourself, why aren't they doing it? Why are they doing it? A couple reasons. I think one of the top ones is Thune, even though he's a complete Trump lap dog, he gets that once somebody does that, and no one's done this on government funding yet ever, you open up a can of worms that will last for a long time. And I think Thune, still, he got a little bit in him that respects the institution. He's still the Trump lap dog, but he got that little bit in him that he doesn't want to open that up and refuses to do it. But that option is available to them if they want to move forward. Part of this is they want Democratic complicity and taking healthcare so that way they can go out and say, well, people or their healthcare is going from 50 to 300% more. But Democrats, it was bipartisan. We both did it. And that's why it's all, they're messing with your health care for politics. And that's what's going on right now. So I don't even have to dig into some illegal thing. That is something they can do, hasn't been done before, but they could do it. It's not illegal, but they want our votes on it. And if you want our votes on it, you're going to have to make sure that 25 million people aren't going to either lose their health care or have it go up insane amounts.

[A]

Maxwell, let me tell you what I like about you. I'll just be honest with you. And this is you're never supposed to do this in an interview. I'll tell you. Like there was a video that I posted not too long ago with you and remember, it was the video where you were telling people, they were like, you don't want, you said you don't want the kids to die while they're in utero, you want them to die in the streets, you want them to die. In the schools. You want them to die. Let me tell you why I like that video. Cause every now and again, and I think you saw it in Lansdowne. Every now and again, I just, you know, the nigga just comes out. I'm just like. I'm sick of fucking around with y'. All. And, like, you're sitting there and you're trying to be nice, and I saw it in your face, and I actually saw it in your face that you were like. There was a part of you that was like, we just went there. Maxwell. It's two Maxwells that are talking. And you just went. We just. We. We just went there. And you told him straight up. He's like, you don't want the kids to die in utero. You want them to die in school. You want them to die on the street. There's a bunch of other places that you want them to die, just not when the woman can. Okay, I want to ask you about this, because what we're talking about right now, we're talking about politics, but downstream from the politics or upstream from people's lives are those lives. Like, there's legitimately somebody that needs insulin to survive. There's legitimately somebody that needs care. They're not. I don't know how to impart this to people. Like, it's not a game. Like, there's somebody that right now is looking at this and going, am I gonna be able to pay to live in six months? And I asked this question fully understanding that it is maybe not even a fair question to ask you. Do you think that the Republican Party cares whether or not their constituency dies? I mean, I'm just asking because, like, you talked about that, we're talking about kids in schools. We're talking about people that are starving. We're talking about healthcare. We're talking about fundamental things that don't govern whether or not you get to start a business and then go make a billion dollars. We're talking about just whether or not you can get to Friday. And there are a lot of people that are asking that question, and that's why that went so viral, is because you just said that. I'm wondering if you think that there is a politic and an intellectual thought, a politic and intellectual reality to the thought that they actually don't care if these people are immiserated and pass away from the policies that they enact.

[C]

What you're asking is exactly why I said what I said because, look, I'm the type of person where I try to take people at their word. I try to assume best intentions of people. Like, I'm talking about me personally as, like, Maxwell, certainly.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[C]

And that part is still in me. But in this realm of politics, I found out much younger when I got started in this, at 15 years old. I can't tell you how many meetings I sat in with politicians and survivors of gun violence or people who just lost their sister, their sister got mowed down by a machine gun in school. Now they're in an office with a Republican politician saying, can you vote for universal background checks? Most of the countries for it. And I can't tell you the amount of times I've cried with, I've been hugged by, I've been consoled by politicians who literally looked us in the eyes and said, we're going to do something about this. Like, I'm with you, I understand you. And I can't tell you the amount of times I believe them. And then I can't tell you the amount of times I went into the chamber the next day to see the vote on the board and see them vote the same way they've always voted. You know, after every mass shooting, everyone's like, this, is this. Is this the one? This has to be the one. I don't ask that anymore. There's not the one. If it wasn't when the kids got mowed down, if it wasn't this, if it wasn't when the majority leader, Steve Scalise, the Republican in the House, that man was shot. He was shot at a baseball practice in Washington, D.C. and they still didn't do anything. So what I'm trying to say is, for me, in politics, when we're making decisions that result in life or death in this realm specifically, I'm not as interested in what you say. I'm interested in what you do, and I'm interested in what you don't do. And that's why I said what I said. I knew it was provocative. I knew they would feel personally offended, but I wanted to personally offend them. Not by making fun of them personally or anything like that, but by bringing up something that I know. So many people are thinking that if you actually care about kids dying, why aren't you doing anything on gun violence? Why aren't you doing anything to make sure our babies aren't dying in our schools or that black and brown kids aren't being shot to death in their cities? Why aren't you doing anything about it? Because the only thing I can think of is that you don't care. And I believe that. And it's a difficult way of thinking. I'm not saying everyone should think that. In normal life, I do think we should try to take people at their word. But in politics specifically, there's a set.

[A]

Of actions that go along with it.

[C]

There are actions. We're not just, like, talking outside. We're not like, hanging out, chopping it up, talking about politics. We are making decisions that will determine whether or not someone can live or die. We are making decisions based on whether someone can go to the hospital or go to the doctor and make sure that they can live a life. And we have to amp up the pressure around that, because there's too many politicians who are too comfortable with saying and doing another and feeling like, you know, that, and they're comfortable with reconciling that, like, they're fine in their heart with that. And I find it part of my job, especially being. I don't see myself as, like, the representative of my generation. I represent my district. I don't speak for all young people, but I will say that I especially seeing myself as the youngest person there, I find it part of my job to challenge my colleagues on that as much as I can. And I pick my times. You know, I'm not. I'm not doing it all the time, but I do it when I think it's going to be impactful, and I do it when I. Sometimes people ask me, like, maxwell, how come you didn't you see no video? People ask me, max, how come you didn't yell at her right when she started yelling at you? You know, the interesting thing is, I found. And this is maybe more my style, but sometimes you just got to let them talk because they'll say more than you can say. People will really. People will really hear the hatred in their voice and the dissonance between what they're saying and what they're doing. And that's why I let her speak. And I can't tell you how many people reached out to me and said, hearing what she said after what you said was even almost more impactful to me than what you said, because I got to see her for who she truly is. And so either way, that's why I.

[B]

Said that, wow, you're bigger than us. Well, bigger than me, I should say. I should say. I'm not gonna speak for Van. You're bigger than me.

[C]

I mean, look, I love going back and forth because I think, like, it's. I love going back and forth, but I do like to let, a lot of times you let them speak, they show who they are. And, and I try to give them that opportunity to really show who they are when they're challenged, because I think a lot of people wake up when they see that kind of thing, because a lot of politicians are really polished and you never really hear from them unless it's a polished thing. Right. It's a press conference. They're speaking from a thing, it's a press release, it's a video that they're reading from a script. But when you're in that back and forth, you're peeling back for them, and that's when they really show what they care about and what they don't care about.

[B]

I like that. I like it, too, because in all that you're saying, I mean, I'm a fan of the call out, but I appreciate the other position as well, or both of them. But I think a lot of times people attribute when things to Trump, it's like, oh, that's just Trump. Oh, that's just chaos. Oh, you know, like. And they almost ignore it because they're just so used to it. And I think what we need more of is to point out that Trump can't do it alone. It's the politicians that you're that represent you, who you're voting for, or maybe you're not voting at all. And it allows these people to take office that are allowing these things to happen. And I think that we have to start either allowing them to show themselves in the way that you just spoke out. Spoke about, or we have to call them out specifically by name on what it is they're doing or what they're not doing. Last question for me, I'll just say this. People who are watching this, who are watching what's going on, trying to make sense of it all. I know you have something up about how to navigate this shutdown, but I think, of course, the question always is, how is this economically going to impact me in any way? Or what is it that can, what can I do as I'm watching this all happen? How would you answer those questions?

[C]

Yeah, there's going to be a lot of misinformation about it. So I'll try to. The most pressing thing people are going to ask, number one in a government shutdown, if you get Social Security checks or Medicare, you're still going to get your checks, you're still going to get your health care. Okay. The part where it will get a little iffy is if it goes longer than a month, if it goes longer than a month, essentially what will begin to happen is the checks will be delayed. So it'll come, but it might come late. And as you know, that's a huge deal, especially for seniors on a fixed income. You miss a check, you might miss your rent, you might not be able to live where you're living. And it's a big deal. The other thing is a lot of federal workers have been furloughed. What does that mean? They've been asked to not go to work. So they're not working right now. And this is the case. If you live in, like I live in Florida, we got a lot of hurricanes. If you live in a natural disaster prone place, places like NOAA or National Weather Service, stuff like that, a lot of people have been furloughed and a lot of people on the communication side have been. Now you might be asking, well, comms, what does that matter? Hello? If we can't understand what's going on and it's not being communicated, that's a big deal. Every second is a matter of life or death as it relates to hurricanes, especially in a place like Florida. And then as you're seeing, there's going to be federal workers who are working who don't know if they're going to get a paycheck. Because if you're still in a government shutdown during a pay period when the checks are supposed to go out, the checks don't go out. So if we're in this on the 14th or the 15th, all those TSA workers, all the people working in the federal government, people in our military, they're not going to receive that next paycheck, which is a big deal for a lot of our federal workers. So it's not good. Honestly. A government shutdown is the manifestation of the failure of government. I always, you know, I've been through. This is my fourth or fifth, like shutdown, like issue. It was my first shutdown. But like, we always get right to, like it's meant. It's like 11pm and the government's about to shut down. And then a deal happens. And I'm always like, we've known this date is coming up. Like, we know these dates far in advance. Why do we wait? Why do we wait? And it all has to do with this political stuff. We were talking about this months ago. That's why whenever Johnson or the president say, let's do it later, let's negotiate later, this is why people don't like politicians is we live on a different set of rules. We're here to do a job. We knew this date was coming. We asked about it months ago. We said, this is the healthcare thing we need to fix. Let's fix it. If you want us to vote on this bill, we gotta fix the healthcare thing. Crickets. All we get some memes and stuff. I mean, it's. It's unserious, but it's more than unserious. It's dangerous because it has real repercussions, especially for working people. So that, that's. But those are some of the realities of a government shutdown. A lot of it depends on how long it goes for. It could end tomorrow, though. It could literally end tomorrow if we could just fix the health care, you know, crisis that's going on.

[A]

I got two more questions. We can be quick. I know you gotta go. Thank you for your time. This is Representative Maxwell Frost. I watched an interview with Rahm Emanuel, and he used the term woke. And the way he used it was in the same pejorative term that you hear the right use it. We, meaning Democrats. Ron Emanuel, who you guys might know, is a former, a member of the Obama White House and the former mayor of Chicago, Long, long, long, deeply entrenched into the traditional Democratic circles for the last X amount of years. Some people say he might be positioned in Iran in 2028. He talked about the fact that we, meaning the Democrats, he, meaning the Democrats, concentrated too much on woke stuff and not much and not as much on kitchen table issues. So he's adopted that, and I hear more increasingly Democrats adopt that type of language, that we went too woke, we went too far. We have to get away from the woke stuff and get back to the issues that matter. Number one, what is woke to you? And number two, how do you feel about that framing from some people that have been in the party for a long time?

[C]

I'll answer in reverse. So I think campaigns and politics is about showing your differences and distinguishing yourself from the other people. Right. It's about saying they want to do this, but I'm running because I want to do this other thing that I believe is better and is a different way and is better for this country. And there's a lot of Democrats who feel like the way we're going to be, the Trump movement and the Republican Party to make sure that we can actually fight for working people is by sounding more like them and being more like them. And that couldn't be further from the Truth, it's just not true. And I feel like I come from a place of lived experience here that I hope people take my warning. Being from the state of Florida, just in 2018, we were so close to winning the governor's mansion. Okay, we were so close. Andrew Billum was under a point from winning it, and then when he lost it. The interesting thing is so many Democrats in Florida and this was happening before him, but it happened a lot after. And I think it's part of the reason that why now we lose by a lot more statewide. And they said, well, you know what? When the Republicans in Florida call our candidates communists, socialists, this and that, it don't matter if you're a moderate or progressive, you're going to get called it. What they would do is figure out, number one, how can we sound more like them? But number two, let's spend all of our time and all of our money on ads that say, no, I'm not. I don't know about you, but no, I'm not is not a compelling message to win a campaign. And trying to be Republican light isn't going to work because, number one, you're not distinguishing yourself enough from the people you're trying to beat in a campaign. But number two, this fantasy of like the voter that voted for them is gonna vote for me because I'm trying to sound more like them. It cannot be further from the truth. This is how you get those people. This is how you get the biggest group of people who don't vote, which are not, or this is the biggest group of people which is non voters, is. I'll agree with what Ron Emanuel said in that focusing on kitchen table issues. But here's the thing. It's not just about identifying the problem, but it's about giving solutions that people that will actually change people's lives. And then it's doing it. And this is the problem with a lot of people more on the establishment political side is they say, well, it's just about identifying the problem. Then we get in power and then we'll put these bills forward that are like, this is how we fix it for this people around the edges. If you're in this income bracket in four to eight years that we are in such a crisis in this country of wealth inequality, 60% of our people live paycheck to paycheck. We need bold, transformational change. So it's not just about talking about kitchen table issues. It's not just about identifying what people are going through, but it's about having bold solutions. Which I think is really important. And that's how you're going to bring over those voters and the people who don't vote. Not by saying woke, not by trying to act like Trump. People see through that. They see it as inauthentic, and they see it as you just trying to say something to win an election versus you doing something because you're passionate about it. And that's part of the problem in politics is we have too many people who run for office who have a whole lot of ambition, but not a lot of passion. And when that, when you have that combination, those are the people who will go wherever they think the winning the election is, and those are ultimately the people who lose a lot. And so sorry, that was a long winded answer.

[A]

Appreciate it.

[C]

I am fully, again, I'm fully against trying to. Trying to do that. That is not the message that people sent. The message that people sent is we can't afford anything. Life is harder than it's ever been. It is really expensive to live in this country, and we need bold, transformational change. That's what they need. And, and we have the ability to really bring it. But let's not get fooled by people who just think identifying the problems, how we're going to win, or making cool. You know, there's a lot of people, we talk about the New York mayoral race, right? You got a lot of people saying, well, you just got to make cool videos. You can win like Zoran did. It's not about the videos about what he's saying. It's about a platform that speaks towards people. And they say, wow, if that were to happen, that would change my life.

[A]

Well, we see that working so well. Why do you think some of these same establishment types in your party, the Schumers, the Jeffries, the Emanuels, why do you think they're so hesitant to get behind Zoran?

[C]

I think that I was just on another interview. We were talking about how part of the issue in the Democratic Party is we are too baked in the hierarchy and too big. Oh, yeah, yeah. And to make them the process. And I think what that does is it makes it so that way there's a hesitancy to legitimize people who come from outside of that, whether it's outside of the process or outside of the politics you're used to. And it's a huge problem in our party that we have to fix. Now, believe it or not, the Republican Party got kind of got through that a lot faster than we did. How Donald Trump bullied him out of it. He smashed it. And now running the Republican Party for 10 years, and he don't care about any of that. So people have been coming in left and right, and you'd probably see a similar thing if, like, you know, Bernie ended up winning. Right. That would. That's like a similar example, just not Donald Trump. But I think the good news here is I don't think there's an establishment in the Democratic Party right now. And for people who might disagree with me, what's an establishment? Establishment is when you have the top power brokers all working towards the same goal. And the thing is, at least from my vantage point from last election, there is so much drama and so many people were mad at each other and so many of these power brokers who really don't have power anymore, that it's up for grabs. Like, the keys to this coalition are up for grabs. And yes, it'll matter what happens in the midterms. It'll send a message. If there's more progressive people or more populous people are centrists, that sends a message. But the real one is the type of person we elect to be our party nominee, who will be the party leader that will either drastically change our party or keep us in line with kind of this neoliberal, more establishment thing that we've been doing that isn't working anymore. And I have hope because, look, there are people who I know back in 2016, friends of mine, who. Who hated Bernie, who hated that whole thing, and then I. Then I'm like, go to Oligarchy Tour. And I see them there. I'm like, why are you here? I thought you hated this guy. And they're like, I just want to see people fight. And I see the progressives fighting, you know, and I've heard that from so many people who hated progressives literally a year ago. And it just goes to show that the base of this party, I think, has really woken up from the. I think the base has learned the right lesson from the last election, and I think there's a lot of people who haven't. So, you know, and the last thing I'll say about. About the Zoran thing is it's not even just about Zoron. Zoran's going to win that race because he's run a great campaign and because he has a good message. It's not. He don't need any of these people's support to win. He's going to win regardless. But this is why it's important, because in a year and a Half when we have the midterms, and then in three and a half years or three years when we have a presidency. And you gotta go out there and tell young people and tell disaffected voters, come and vote for the Democrat. They're gonna remember your silence from that New York mayoral race, whether you like it or not. Because it's what people are talking about, and it's something that's inspired a lot of people. This is a big problem in D.C. is we get in that D.C. bubble and you go through all. Well, it's just this and it's just that. It's not a big deal, but you don't look out at the fact that a lot of people care about it. And even though you might not think it's a big deal, to a lot of the people, it is. And people remember stuff. Wow.

[A]

All right. Be as brief as you can. Give people three things that they should vote on.

[C]

Vote on.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, you don't have to be. I'm not asking you to be brief. I'm just like, if I was to ask you to give three people three issues. Like, I'm here. I'm Mr. Johnny. I don't watch the Sunday shows. I'm hanging out. You know, I'm playing Fortnite. I'm skateboarding. You know, I'm doing my thing. I'm out. I'm hanging out with the people. Maybe I just joined the Divine Nine. Maybe I just got my ass kicked for four months. No, but, like, maybe, maybe, maybe I'm one of those, right? And I have thoughts about the world. I have a good moral compass, but issues for me to vote on that are material to my life. What would those issues be? To Maxwell Frost, thank you for joining us.

[C]

Health care. Make sure that the person you vote for has a transformative vision on health care. And you know how you're going to know something transformative if it sounds much different than what we're going through right now, which doesn't work for the majority of our people. 2. I would say housing. Housing. We are in a housing crisis. And for so long, people in the federal government has washed their hands clean of the housing issue. It's not just a local issue, it's a national issue, too. So look for people who are giving good solutions, bold solutions, on how we're going to make sure we realize that housing should be an American right for every person, whether you're going to rent or own, it shouldn't be taking up 50% of your rent. That's ridiculous.

[A]

So you, you think that housing is a human right.

[C]

I think that housing is a human right. Yeah.

[B]

Van, we agree on that. We agree on that. Okay. You're not making.

[A]

What else? What else what? What else you got?

[C]

Is there some background?

[A]

No, no, no, no, no. We'll even have time because we could.

[B]

Take up the next.

[A]

We had a whole. We had a whole situation. A lot of they got. It was a squatting. We got a lot of landlord lovers in our, in our base here. Rachel's one of them. That's okay, though. We're talking.

[C]

Let me, let me say this. The solution to fixing the housing crisis is going to take everybody, of course. And the fact of the matter is, our biggest problem here are the big private equity companies buying up all the homes, building these apartment complexes that are affordable, aren't really affordable, that are, that are, you know, charging all these junk fees. I have a bill to get rid of junk fees. And a lot of people ask, well, Maxwell, what about mom and pop landlords? Well, statistically speaking, they don't charge the fees you see these private equity companies charge. You're talking about this fee that feed this fee that to the point where you're paying 3 to 400 extra on top of your rent that you didn't know about till you signed on the dotted line. So you say everyone who owns a unit or owns some units are evil or anything.

[A]

There's some say that either.

[C]

Look, my, my big solution, people, some people will love part of it, some people hate part of it. Like I do think we need to build more affordable housing. We need to make sure that we change our zoning, our exclusionary zoning laws, get rid of parking minimums. Like, these are the things a lot of people who are more on the owning side would love to hear. But I also do think we need consumer protections, and that's one on board. Things like red stabilization and things like limiting junk fees and stuff like that. What this does is it's a give and take. It helps us keep a balanced system here so we. People get in the home. So my solution, there'll be things. People, you know, some people like, some people don't like this and that, but I think it's important. I think that's how you build a balanced system where people can actually have a roof over their head. Third thing. Third thing, I would tell people to vote. I want to say something that's kind of.

[A]

Just speak your mind.

[C]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

Speak your mind, Maxwell Frost. By the way, can I say something before, while you're thinking yeah, yeah. Your parents knew that you were either going to be a politician or a villain for Batman.

[C]

Yeah, yeah. I get villains.

[A]

There was no way. Like, who are. I'm Maxwell Frost. Like, either you were gonna be somebody important or you were gonna be somebody. Like, it's a super villain name. The hell?

[C]

Well, I went with the other one. Okay, So I get dj. I get a lot of different stuff.

[B]

That'd be a great DJ name.

[C]

I used to be a DJ in middle school. My name was DJ Frost and my tag was DJ Frost.

[B]

You gotta bring it back. You gotta bring it back.

[A]

What is Maxwell doing? What is he doing?

[C]

You know the third thing I'm going to say? I said healthcare. I said housing. There's so many. I'm going to say someone who. Okay, I want to say someone who has a plan to really tackle the fact that you don't have enough wealth. And there's so little people in this country who have all the wealth, which is what we.

[A]

Economic mobility.

[C]

Yeah, yeah. Quality and mobility. And the fact that the people. You know, I talk with a lot of food banks locally. They are at the highest levels ever in our country's history. Food banks are. And the interesting thing is, they say 10 years ago, it was people in poverty that would line up like abject poverty. People living on the streets. Who's lining up now? Mom and dad in the minivan with the kid. They both have jobs. They have a house. Their salary that paid everything 10 years ago doesn't pay everything now. Now they need to go. I speak with so many people who tell me, I just went to the Breadline for the first time in my life, and that is what wealth inequality looks like when the economy is rigged, where those at the top make this and you make that. Guess what? Even when politicians do good policies to grow the economy, guess how the economy grows? It grows the way it was set. And we have to change that dynamic or else no matter what good policies happen to grow our economy, you ain't gonna feel it. It's not gonna be transformational for you. And I think that's a really important thing to look at in politicians when they're talking about what they're gonna do. We need big, we need bold.

[A]

There you go. Wow. Maxwell Frost, thanks for joining us on Higher Learning, my brother.

[C]

Thank you.

[A]

This episode is brought to you by Hyundai, who says you can't be the topic of conversation for all the right reasons. The Hyundai Tucson hybrid pairs bold presence with advanced technology and sleek style. It's everything you didn't know you needed in an SUV and then some. Okay. Hyundai. Visit HyundaiUSA.com to learn more. All right, Rachel's Choice. What you got? Maxwell's Gray. What you got?

[B]

Maxwell's Gray still remains one of our top or. Well, we have five Democrats that we like.

[A]

Five Democrats that we like. We haven't really said what the five Democrats are.

[B]

He's still. It's a random number. He's one.

[A]

One of them is Maxwell Frost.

[B]

Oh.

[A]

Oh. We'll do this live. We'll do this live. We just had. And now that we're saying this live on the show, maybe they'll change their mind. But it was just made. Just made true. Available to me. Or somebody just hit me up and said that Gavin Newsom would like to come on Higher Learning.

[B]

All right. We would love to have him on.

[A]

You wanna talk to Gavi in.

[B]

Why would we not?

[A]

I'm with it.

[B]

We're citizens of California. He's making the rounds. He's potential. Potentially running in 2028. There's a lot to dig into. We gotta have him on for at least an hour.

[A]

We gotta talk to Gavin Newsom for a little while. Like, if this is in fact, true that I'm getting from some of the great people that we know, and we'll make sure our people get a chance to go through this and do the whole deal. But we might be able to have Gavin Newsom on the podcast. Gavin Newsom talks to a lot of people. I feel like he's been on the Breakfast Club, but I don't know how much he talks to El Negro. And that might just be because El Negro is not as big of a platform as, say, a Steve Bannon. But we'll have a conversation with Gavin Newsom. I would like that. I would look forward to that. What would you ask Gavin if we talked to him?

[B]

I have a lot of questions. I don't know particularly. I would just have a lot of questions. Hold on. I'm looking up to see if he's ever been on the Breakfast Club. He has not.

[A]

Wait, I feel like Gavin Newsom went on the Breakfast Club. No, he did not. Who has Gavin Newsom talked to from El Negro? Has he. Does he speak to El Negra? He's got to have talked to Diblique at some point, right? He's spoken to Dablik.

[B]

I'm sure he has. I'm just. I'm just particularly looking up the Breakfast Club right now.

[A]

I'm sure he's done like a sit down with Dave Chappelle. Or some shit like that.

[B]

But anyways, it would be great to have him on. It would be great to have him on.

[A]

Yeah, we'll talk to him. We'll see. We'll see.

[B]

Trying to bring you guys meaningful conversations, conversations that move things forward that you guys are interested in. And we have a lot of questions for him.

[A]

A lot of questions for him. Not all that he'll enjoy. Oh, oh, Gabby. Gabby in Rachel, your choice. What do you want to do? We got some stuff we could still peel off here.

[B]

Let's talk about what's going on in the wnba.

[A]

Oh, daddy.

[B]

You know, as we're talking about, we had a great conversation with Congressman Maxwell Frost and talking about, you know, the Democrats and their. And which we've been asking for. Right. For them. The last shutdown that happened or could have happened in March did not. We were disappointed with the letter and the movement from the leadership and the Democrats. And here we are now. Shut. Shut it down. Maxwell Frost did a great job on the show. But I guess in carrying on with that WNBA player Nafisa Collier speaking out about issues that she has not just with the wnba, but particularly its leadership. Donnie.

[D]

Thank you all for your time today. I have prepared a statement that I would like to make before taking any questions. All right, so. So first of all, I'd like to congratulate the Mercury for advancing to the Finals. And I want to be clear, this conversation is not about winning or losing. It's about something much bigger. The real threat to our league isn't money. It isn't ratings or even missed calls or even physical, physical play. It's the lack of accountability from the league office. Since I've been in the league, you've heard the constant concerns about officiating. And it has now reached levels of inconsistency that plague our sport and undermine the integrity in which it operates. Operates. Whether the league cares about the health of the players is one thing, but to also not care about the product we put on the floor is truly self sabotage. Year after year, the only thing that remains consistent is a lack of accountability from our leaders. Sorry I had to walk you in my boot. I'm kind of out of breath. The league has a buzzword that they've rolled out as talking points for the CBA as to why they can't pay the players what we're worth. That word is sustainability. But what's truly unsustainable is keeping a good product on the floor while allowing officials to lose control of games. Fans see it every night. Coaches both winning and losing pointed out every night in pregame and post game media. Yet leadership just issues fines and looks the other way. They ignore the issues that everyone inside the game is begging to be fixed. That is negligence at unrivaled this past February, I sat across from Kathy and asked how she planned to address the officiating issues in our league. Her response was, well, only the losers complain about the refs. I also asked how she planned to fix the fact that players like Caitlin, angel and Paige, who are clearly driving massive revenue for the league, are making so little for their first four years. Her response was caitlin should be grateful she makes 16 million off the court because without the platform that the WNBA gives her, she wouldn't make anything. And in that same conversation she told me players should be on their knees thanking their lucky stars for the meteorites deal that I got them. That's a mentality driving our league from the top. We go to battle every day to protect a shield that doesn't value us. The league believes it succeeds despite its players, not because of them. I have the privilege of watching my husband run a league where he has to balance a hundred different things at once. I won't pretend the job is easy, but even with all of that on his plate, he always takes the time to reach out to players when he sees an injury, whether it's unrivaled or even during the WNBA season. That is what leadership looks like. It's the human element, it's basic integrity, and it's the bare minimum any leader should embody. This year alone, I've gotten calls, texts and well wishes from so many players across the league. Those moments remind me that sometimes there are things bigger than the results. This game, than this game we play. But do you know who I haven't heard from? Kathy. Not one call. Not one text. Instead, the only outreach has come from her number two telling my agent that she doesn't believe physical play is contributing to injuries, that that is infuriating and it's the perfect example of the tone deaf, dismissive approach that our leaders always seem to take. I finally grown tired. For too long I have tried to have these conversations in private, but it's clear there is no intention of accepting there's a problem. The league has made it clear it isn't about innovation. It isn't about collaboration. It's about control and power. I've earned this platform and I've paid the price to get here and now I have a responsibility to speak on behalf of the fans and everyone in this league that deserves better. Our leadership's answer to being held accountable is to suppress everyone's voices by handing out fines. I'm not concerned about a fine. I'm concerned about the future of our sport. At some point, everyone deserves to hear the truth from someone who I hope has earned the benefit of the doubt, to fight for what is right and fair for our athletes and our fans. We have the best players in the world. We have the best fans in the world. But right now, we have the worst leadership in the world. If I didn't know exactly what the job entailed, maybe I wouldn't feel this way. But unfortunately for them, I do. We serve a league that has shown they think championship coaches and hall of Fame players are dispensable, and that's fine. It's professional sports. But I will not stand quietly by and allow different standards to be applied at the league level.

[A]

Kathy don't give a fuck.

[B]

Kathy's feeling herself.

[A]

Kathy. Kathy. You never thought that that would happen, did you?

[B]

Kathy never thought that. She was documenting, like, all of it.

[A]

Kathy. Kathy was sitting there. See, this is what. This is what happens. I want everybody to understand this. When you talk your shit, make sure you don't care if it gets shoveled everywhere. Talk your shit. But just remember, people remember what the fuck you say. Fee is sitting down there and they're talking, and Cathy is, you know, talking like, hey, man, that's some Goldie the Max shit. Like, your bitch chose me. I'm like, oh, my God, Kathy. Jesus. Wow. Like that. I've been watching a lot of the Gilded Age, and that's not how we talk to, you know, we.

[B]

Where are you?

[A]

Like I am now, first of all, on the Gilded Age. Lunch doesn't exist anymore. If you want to come to lunch with me, it's not lunch anymore. It's now luncheon. Luncheon is a superior word to lunch. Every time they eat lunch in the Gilded Age, they go, hey, are you coming to luncheon? And it's a whole big thing. I like that better. I like luncheon better.

[B]

I will never let you into our world with the Gilded Age because you talk about feeling yourself. You're going to be feeling yourself now, talking about this, thinking you're one of them. Back to Nafeesa. I love this.

[A]

Of course.

[B]

I love it so much. I love the timing of it. I love that she's becoming the face of it. Obviously, this isn't something that happened overnight. This is her. She knew that one. She's been privy to certain conversations because of her role within the wnba, what she's done as one of the co founders, with unrivaled and increasing pay and opportunity for WNBA players, bringing more excitement to women's basketball, to the sport, more eyes on these women. She's been doing so much. She is a powerhouse within it, and she has. I forget what her role is, but she's VP of something within the WNBA as well. Ooh, V. Yeah. She's.

[A]

She's the vice president of the Players Association.

[B]

Thank you, Players Association. I knew it was vice president. You need somebody like that to stand up for people to listen. And so far, from what I've seen, everybody. Not everybody, a lot of people with power, with platforms have been backing her. And I haven't seen one person stand up for Kathy, have you?

[A]

Man, Kathy looking like a female sambo in these streets. Man, Kathy, you looking like a sambo to the ladies. You're looking like a corporate plant in order to keep these women in check. That's what you're looking like. Cuz. Here's the deal. And let me tell you about this. I'm just being all the way, for real. I don't know Kathy. I never met her before. I don't know fi. I don't know any of these people. But what it looks like is that it's a women's league and it's run by a woman, and that a woman is there at the behest of other corporate people to control costs in the league and keep the workplace in the league in check. And then, of course, it looks differently because a lady is doing it.

[B]

Now, the reason why it's always been a woman.

[A]

Of course it's always been a woman. But I'm saying in this particular point, when the league exploded and the players are asking for money, I know that it's always going to be a woman that's gonna be the commissioner of wnba. I'm just saying this is a very precarious time. This is a conversation that's not being had on a mic or in an interview. This is a conversation where you should be able to walk up to somebody when they are not talking or, excuse me, are not being surveilled or it's not being promoted, or people can't hear and just say, hey, this is kind of the thing that we're thinking and we're saying. And what you would expect in this conversation, in that type of conversation is that someone at least listened to you. At least go, oh, you know what? These are the changing dynamics of the league. This is the way we look at you guys as our workforce, but also our superstars that are going to be responsible for blowing this league up, this is what we do. We look at you guys and what you do and how you play and how you market yourselves. And this is the plan that we have for the league. And that does not seem to be what she did. What it seems to be what she did. You sit down and eat now.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

There's a time Kalika says she went to Fat Max in Atlanta, and this is a funny story. She went to Fat Max in Atlanta and she asked the guy at Fat Max for more barbecue sauce, and he said, eat what you got. She asked for more. Eat what you got.

[B]

Now, that's Kathy.

[A]

That's Kathy. Eat what you got.

[B]

You know what makes it so powerful, too? It's not just who's saying it. It's not just when she's saying it. It's how she said what she said. She didn't just focus, but. No, no, no. She didn't just focus on the officiating, which has been a huge issue. And mind you, she's coming into this press conference with this prepared statement, playing the last game of the season for her as she was injured. Exactly. And so it builds onto the story. She could have just focused on that. She didn't. She could have just talked about pay. She didn't. What she basically said is that the person who is in leadership, the person who is running all of this, doesn't care about us, period. And I think that that's almost more powerful than pointing to just the particular issues for the operation of basketball in the. She doesn't care about who we are as human beings. When she was dishing out those statements that Kathy said, all the underlying issue is you don't care about us. So if you don't care about us, if we're disposable to you, then you're not going to fight on our behalf. When it comes to pay, when it comes to protecting us, when it comes to any of that, we should just be grateful for what you give us, but you don't actually care about us, which is what she's. Which is what Kathy. Which is what is even crazier because Kathy puts out a statement and she's talking about how much she cares about her, about the players. When, when you couple the statements and the operational way that she's been running the. The. The. The wnba, it clearly shows she does not. She's not. She's more focused on the business aspect of it. Of growing the teams, of getting the media deal and not caring about the people who are actually on the court making this happen. How dare you say Caitlin Clark should be grateful to be playing in a league when it's players like her that make up the greatness of the league?

[A]

You know what's funny is I actually disagree.

[B]

I'm not. I don't think it's funny, but please explain.

[A]

So she's the commissioner of the league. She's a corporate person. The commissioners in the league, any league, care about the players insofar as the players are what needs to be taken care of to make sure the league thrives and expands. So care of the players. This is kind of the thing when you're talking about corporate forces versus. Excuse me, guys. Oh, yeah. Little daddy, dad, dad, dad, wipe, Daddy, wipe the baby's nose when you're talking about. I don't expect the commissioner of any league to care about the players. The commissioner. Yeah. I don't. The commissioner is hired by the owners, and the owners have the commissioner there to do their bidding, which is to maintain structural integrity of their corporate endeavor. That's what it is. This. So that's not the part of it. The fact that she doesn't care about the players is not the part of it.

[B]

That she's saying it should be different. But go ahead.

[A]

Well, that's why Lady Sambo. Lady Sambo is. But this is the thing that gets me, is that her conversation was so dismissive to the players. It's not caring about them and not wanting them to be full free. There's no way Adam Silver would ever, ever, ever, ever talk to, like, even James Harden. I'm not going to bring up LeBron like James Harden. He wouldn't talk to Trae Young. This is not to diss these guys, but, like, he wouldn't talk to any player with any stature at all. Like that ever. That right there tells you the difference between the WNBA players and the NBA players. That tells you that those two commissioners actually have the same job. And their job is to make as much money as possible for the people that are investing into the league and to make sure that while the players are the conduit for the growth in the league, that their wages are also controlled and their market value is controlled and that they need the NBA, that they need the league. Right. Because if not, we'd see all kinds of things for players in all of these sports leagues that we don't see. We'd see mental health resources, we would see financial literacy resources. We'd see all types of. If it was about caring about the actual individual as a human person, we'd see all kinds of things in these leagues that we do not see. You essentially get somebody at age 19, 22, you give them $10 million, and then you say, go figure it out. If it was about developing this person as an individual, the way all of this stuff would run would be completely different. Right. That's not the way corporate looks at any of us. But the blatant disrespect, the eat what you got that right there, that's unique. Like, that is what they're talking about. That's what the ladies in the WNBA are talking about. They're talking about, hey, not only do. Not only are we not being paid equal, people are acting like they're doing us a favor. Like, they're acting like. They're acting like this entire thing is charity. They're acting like they're doing a favor for us. They're legitimately telling us, well, you should be happy that we're giving you a league to play in. You should be happy that we're giving you. You should be happy about it. And they're saying, no, we're unhappy. We see what's happening. We want to make sure that we're respected as equals in this. And people are saying no. Like, you should be thankful that you have the holy genes that your older sister used to have that is unique to that sport because it's in most other sports. There's so much money on the line. There's so much money on the line, and there's so much money being made, and there's so much actually respect for what the athletes do. Fuck the money. There's so much respect for the. For what the athletes do.

[B]

From who?

[A]

From the people, the bean counters. Like you, you know, you. You know, you know, you think there's.

[B]

So much respect for. From the athlete. I mean, for the athlete from the league.

[A]

Well, for the work. Not for them as people, but for the work. You can't. You can't talk to Justin Herbert like that. You can't do it. Like, you. You cannot talk to. You can't talk to them like that. Like you. You. Like they are. Whether or not they are. They are important in the grand scheme of sports to where there is going to be decorum. There are also men that. There's going to be decorum. When you sit down and you have a conversation with them. If they bring something to the league, you are not going to talk to them like that. You're not going to say that. I'm not saying you're going to treat them fairly. I'm not saying it's all corporate bullshit. That's why the respect as a person thing gets thrown out. But you are not going to speak to them that way. The fact that if she really say all that stuff, the fact that she would just say, hey, you know what? Caitlin Clark should be happy that a WNBA exists for. That's profound.

[B]

Well, I'll say two things to this. I think we're saying essentially the same thing when it comes to the WNBA side of it. My point is that when I talk about that they don't care or they, they don't care about the players. I'm saying that Anafisa is saying, I understand how corporate works, but you should, it's almost like she's, it's a form of protest of. But it should change. You should think about us in a different way. It shouldn't just be about that. I agree with everything you're saying about the corporate side and the way that they view the, the players. But she's saying it should be bigger than that. That's what I, I believe in that and that's what I was. We're gonna part with that.

[A]

I actually don't think that's what she's saying. She's. She's talking about the product. She's talking about the officiating of the league.

[B]

She's like, she's like, but what about the officiating league? Because players are getting hurt. Players are getting. And so like it's, it's about the well being of the athletes. They are.

[A]

It's, it's. It, it's. I mean, yeah, it, it is.

[B]

It's not just you're calling the game wrong. It's. I'm getting, I'm. I'm being. Cause I, you go back, there was, there were things that are spoken about from the coach, from. Not her in this way because she's always been pretty. She was, I mean she was tempered when she was doing this. But she's, she, we've never seen her speak like this, in this way. It is about the protection and the well being of the athlete because the officiate, the, the officials are being accused of not calling certain things of being lopsided with foul counts versus your point. So that, that's what I mean about that and that's why I said it's so impactful that she came in, in a boot like she came in. In a boot injured in this game. And she's been talking about. This isn't the first time, about the officiating. And she's not alone. It's come from players and coaches, and it's about the safety of the athletes. That's what they talk about. They also don't have a review center. There's no place where they can review stuff. They don't have an official review center to review calls and plays. This is the stuff that they're talking about.

[A]

Why do you want.

[B]

Sorry, I feel like I'm really yelling.

[A]

Why? Yeah, get into it, Nate. Why are the quarterbacks in the NFL protected?

[B]

Because they're such an asset.

[A]

That's what I'm saying. So what I'm saying is it's caring about the. I think we're coming at it from two different sides. Because it's not necessarily that the league protects the quarterback and would give the quarterback rules that other players don't have. It is a unique position, but it's because the quarterback is the money driver, and because these ladies aren't looked at as money drivers, they are not taken seriously in any of the ways that players from other sports are. Like, this conversation, to me, is really indicative of the fact that. That the commissioner thinks that she's doing Caitlin Clark a favor, which is fucking preposterous.

[B]

Do you not think that that conversation happens behind closed doors in the male sport leagues?

[A]

It don't matter.

[B]

I guess that's if it happens. The audacity. But my second point was, I think you're giving a lot to some of these other leagues, because I do think that for them. Yes, I do. No, no, no, I do.

[A]

Just, Rachel, if. If. If Adam Silver. If, like. Okay, like Giannis. Like Giannis. If Giannis goes up to the commissioner of the NBA and in a private conversation. In a private conversation, goes up to the commissioner of the NBA, sits down, goes up to Adam Silver and says, hey, you know what? These are the problems that I have with the game. If Adam Silver turn around and says, you should be happy. You got an NBA to play in, you should be happy. You got an NBA to play in, you should be happy, nigga. What?

[B]

I'm not agreeing with you on that. That's not what I'm saying.

[A]

But what I'm saying is he would never, even if he said that to somebody else, he would never in a million years say that to Giannis. Never.

[B]

I agree with you. I'm not saying that. You made a point, and maybe I heard you wrong when you were talking and you were Talking about the respect that these commissioners or leagues or owners have for their players. Almost as if. And what I'm saying is I don't really necessarily agree with that. I think they are just smarter about hiding it behind closed doors. That's what I was saying. It's why you have books like $40 million slave. I don't think that they. They look at them as assets for sure, but I think that they also are like, who's gonna make me money? I don't think they're looking at them with a deeper level of care than the WNBA is. I don't think that just because they're male athletes.

[A]

This is interesting conversation. I think you're talking about this and we can stop circling the drain. You're talking about this from whether or not they. I want to make sure everyone hears what I say. In no corporate situation ever, ever. Does anyone care about you as a person?

[B]

Okay, then maybe. I thought that is what you said.

[A]

No, no, no, no, no.

[B]

So listen, when you said they respect them more.

[A]

Listen, listen. I'm just talking about the actual. And no, everyone that can listen to my voice. When you go into your job and you tell your job, hey, I worked overnight and I didn't come pick my kids up and I did all of that stuff, they don't give a fuck about that. Wherever, just listen to. Nobody cares. No one cares about that. They care about how much you are worth to them and how much respect they are required to give you for what you make for them. Right?

[B]

Is that respect?

[A]

And that it's a form of respect. If you are in a negotiation with somebody and they give you a disrespectful offer, it doesn't really matter what they think about you as a person. You would like for them to think something good about you as a person. But you're not negotiating your worth to them as a person. You're negotiating your worth to them as a worker. You know, this is interesting because I like, I hear people. I talk to people all the time and they're very frustrated because they feel like they should be treated a different way in their workplace. And I always tell them they, you should.

[B]

You should.

[A]

Like, you should. You should. Everything that you're going through as a person should be thought about and considered. But I want you to let you know you're in the deep, soulless grips of capitalism and what they're going to give you is what they have to. And what you're going to be able to get from them is what you take in this Situation. The reason why this was illuminating to me is because every single prop. Kathy, she has to go. She has to go.

[B]

Yeah, she does.

[A]

She like. She. She. She has to go. Because what she demonstrated was as people, fine, she disrespected them, but she also disrespected their work product. They don't even respect the work. See, that's the difference. The commissioners and the owners in the NBA and the MLB and Major League Baseball and football, they respect at least the work product of what the guys are doing, because it is the work product that allows them to then ride around on private jets and take a team that you paid $300 million for and then sell it for $6 million. That work product is beneficiary to them. It makes them. It's beneficial to them. It makes them a lot of money. So you have to sit down with. I mean, the NBA guys have legitimately. I think it's a 50, 50% revenue sharing deal. So they're legitimately money partners. They're legitimately equals. So you just can't talk to them like that. You just can't do that. What I thought about the WNBA was that at least the uppers in the league respected the work product of the ladies. They respected what they're doing on the court, and it was the rest of the fans that had to catch up to that. That's obviously not true. Their league does not respect what they're out there doing. And that's probably why a lot of the other people can't respect it either, because they don't even have belief from the people that are at the top of their game. She talked to her. Maybe it's. That blows my mind that she spoke to her that way.

[B]

No, it just. And it should.

[A]

It just blows my mind that she thought that she talked to her that way.

[B]

Like, that's multiple times. Multiple times.

[A]

No one I have ever worked for, at any place I had ever worked would speak to me that way. Like, no one.

[B]

Multiple times.

[A]

And I'm not. And I'm not.

[B]

I'm not.

[A]

Fee. Fee is way more important in the world of whatever than I am. But nobody was going to talk to me like that. Like, it's just. That was. That, to me crystallized exactly the problem with what the ladies are asking for in the WNBA.

[B]

It'll be interesting to see. I mean, the CBA's up this month. Yeah, yeah.

[A]

The fever won't go away. It did. But the cba.

[B]

CBA is up this month and Kathy will be out. They're Gonna, man, shout out to the.

[A]

Aces, man, I thought the Fever was gonna pull that game out. If the Fever would have pulled that game out. First of all, I hope I will say this about the Fever, man. It's hard for me to do this, but I gotta do this. The Fever have a fantastic team culture.

[B]

Why is that hard for you to do? Cause why can't you say that?

[A]

I got an agenda. Got an anti Caitlin Clark agenda.

[B]

And y' all know it, clearly.

[A]

But they have a fantastic team culture. They would not go away. They're gonna be so scary for the next four or five seasons, man. It's gonna be crazy. But even with all the injuries, they still were right there playing the basketball.

[B]

Yeah. You wanna talk about your boy?

[A]

Who, El Ray J?

[B]

Sure. Guy.

[A]

He's getting sued. Yeah.

[C]

Kim Kardashian and Kris Jenner. They're suing Ray J for defamation. This is after he claimed that he's working with the feds to build a RICO case against the mother daughter duo. Let's listen to what Ray J had to say.

[A]

Federal RICO though, on KK and Chris.

[C]

That's federal rico.

[A]

What I'm about to drop on Chris and Kim is about to be crazy. I'm talking about I'm on the news every day. Like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[C]

Meaning like I'm g. Say a lot of.

[A]

Anybody know Kim and cool with Kim? They need to tell her now. The rain is coming. The feds is. The feds is coming. It's nothing I can do about it. It's worse than Diddy. It's worse than Diddy.

[D]

Y' all hear this?

[C]

This boy.

[A]

It's worse than Diddy. The feds are coming to investigate. Yeah. Cuz it's like I can't be the dirty guy no more.

[B]

This your guy?

[A]

It. It. This your guy?

[B]

It should be noted who he's talking to. Chran. That's who he's talking to in that clip. I've never heard anybody announce that they were working with the feds like that.

[A]

Before.

[B]

Before anybody else do. I. I. Maybe I'm unfamiliar. Correct me if I'm wrong. I just never heard that before.

[A]

Uh, well, I mean, I guess I. I'd have to. We'd have to have Ray J on.

[B]

Why are people crashing out right now?

[A]

It's crash out time. It's crash out time.

[B]

We tried to have Ray J On multiple times.

[A]

Can I tell you why I think it's crash out time?

[B]

Please.

[A]

I think people realize this is the end times.

[B]

End of times. Well, yeah, you Saw all those people gathered on September 23rd thinking the rapture was coming. That was a huge thing.

[A]

That's religious.

[B]

You just think, okay, the state of the country, the state of the world, End times. Is that what you're thinking?

[A]

I think people feel that something has snapped and changed and things will never be the way they were before. And there used to be a seriousness that people just took about things that is gone. There's a seriousness about a thing about stuff, about deals about different stuff, and that's gone. It's like, fuck it. Whatever gets people to tune in to what I'm doing or paying attention to who I am or what I. Fuck it. Everything's gone to hell. Why am I going to be the last person that is attempting to maintain some sort of cultural consistency or whatever? People just crashing out because they look around and they see people not giving a fuck and they. Alcohol. I don't give a fuck either. I think people feel that it's all going to hell.

[B]

I saw somebody tweet that we all died in 2020 from COVID And this is hell. That's how I think.

[A]

So from the legal standpoint, what's. What kind of federal RICO could he have? What's. What kind of racketeering could Ray J. Have? I don't know.

[B]

I. He doesn't have one. I'm not going to entertain this right. Like he. Come on. Jim and Chris have allegedly. Never. Not allegedly. Their attorney said they have never sued anyone for defamation before.

[A]

All the years defamatory.

[B]

All the years that they've been in business, all the years that they've been scrutinized and under attack and think people have said things about them. Never once have they sued for defamation until now. That says a lot.

[A]

It does.

[B]

That says a lot.

[A]

I'll say this, man. It is. We've seen a lot of lawsuits from a lot of celebrities about people saying things that are untrue about them. These lawsuits are expensive, they're time consuming. Sometimes they are just straight up publicity grabs. But they're probably good for the ecosystem. It's probably good in a. They probably are in a.

[B]

What ecosystem?

[A]

The ecosystem of thoughts, ideas and views. Should I just be able to go around and say anything you want about anybody, whether it's true or false?

[B]

Correct. I'm sorry, I was thinking about it from the other side. Correct.

[A]

You should not be able to just go around and just say because somebody is famous or has notoriety, you just say whatever the fuck you want about someone, whether it's true or not. You should not just be able to do that. I mean, if you are defaming people and just saying shit for clout, engagement or views, there should be some recourse to that. And a lot of the other places that we're talking about, we talked about earlier, I worked at TMZ for a long time. If you got some shit on them and it really wasn't true, that shit will come off the website quick. Because there have been lawsuits. People had sued TMZ from inside of the place, suing from outside the place. It's expensive, it makes your organization look bad. But I think what happened is once that type of celebrity news moved off of spaces like tmz, which were owned by Warner Brothers and these big corporations and moved online, those people became a more anonymous and then two, like less juicy to sue because you're not going to get anything from them, you know. But if you say something about somebody that you know is false and that you cannot prove, they can't throw you in jail for it. The only thing they can do is sue you. And then maybe that restores some type of sanity back to the ecosystem of ideas where you at least should be able to, if you're not in parody or satire or any of those other things, should at least have to be able to prove some of the things that you're saying. I will say that there is one thing here that's not true though.

[B]

What?

[A]

They lied. Kim and them lied. They said, brief fleeting relationship with Kim a long time ago for many reasons. That relationship going in a rafters, you can't undo that one.

[B]

I just, you know, well, but it's over. And they're saying, I think this is like a really damning lie. He's unable to accept that it ended. He keeps talking about it like they're saying. And to think at one point you called him this generation's Michael Jackson.

[A]

That's not what I meant.

[B]

You called him that.

[A]

Well, I mean, there are some people that would say there are some mistakes that Mike made that Ray J hasn't made if you want to.

[B]

Of course that can be said. But the point is, is that you said he was this generation's Michael Jackson.

[A]

Never said that.

[B]

You know what you said?

[A]

Say what? I said, say what? I said, say what I said.

[B]

Brandi and Ray J and Ray J.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Are this generation's Janet and Michael.

[A]

Okay, so understand. So what does that mean?

[B]

It's plain as day.

[A]

What does it mean?

[B]

You're saying that they have to be together. Yeah, that's what they have.

[A]

I'm comparing them as brother and sister.

[B]

Stop saying it's wrong. Then it's wrong. Now, together it's wrong. Separate.

[A]

I could be wrong about it. I'm not saying that I'm not wrong.

[B]

Brady got mad the first time I said it, and I said, you can get mad the second time.

[A]

Rachel, guess what? You win. Hey, you win. But can we just. Can't we just come back from the cause? That's like saying that. That's like the Republicans. That's the migrant health care spend that you putting on. What I said it's not.

[B]

Don't migrant health care me, prosecutor. I'm a Republican.

[A]

From a legal standpoint, does what Ray J said, does that meet the threshold of. Of defamation?

[B]

I mean, if he made a statement and knew that it wasn't true. Yeah, he made a statement. He knew it wasn't true. And they're saying that they're subject to harm. It's harmed professionally and personally.

[A]

If people look at their reputation. Yeah, Ray, you gotta keep yourself out of this type of shit. Just keep yourself out of this, man. Just keep yourself out of this. Now you in this shit and they not gonna stop. And honestly, if you're knowingly saying things about people and it's not true for clout and to damage them, then you probably gotta get sued. You probably gotta get sued. But maybe this. Maybe he says he's bringing the case now. Maybe he has to bring the case now in order to not get hit with defamation. Maybe he has to bring the case.

[B]

Maybe. Maybe, Maybe.

[A]

Do you not like the prosecutor? You think something's wrong with being a prosecutor?

[B]

I'm just not one about the victims.

[A]

You never worked in the DA office, did you?

[B]

Mm.

[C]

Mm.

[B]

But I did work in the public defender's office. You defended people as a student? 3rd year law student in Milwaukee County.

[A]

Damn.

[B]

I fought for people who were about to get their bail revoked. I stood. I did. They were called revocation hearings. And I would stand there as a student, third year student, and I would say would fight for them, for them not to have to go back to jail.

[A]

Crazy. That's actually amazing work.

[B]

So you ask, you know, again, you create your own narratives. You say these things against me, harmful to my reputation. You make a statement, you know it's not true, and it has effect on me personally and professionally.

[A]

I never knew.

[B]

I think I might have the case.

[A]

I never knew about.

[B]

Do I have a case?

[A]

The third year Innocence Project. Rach, I never knew about her. Do I have a case like the Rach I know is get em. So I never knew about.

[B]

You never know me like that. Any attorneys out there. This isn't my specialty of law, but, you know, hit me up.

[A]

All right, we gotta go. Before we go, Bad Bunny.

[B]

I saw something that you put up.

[A]

What?

[B]

You didn't know he was from Puerto Rico?

[A]

I did not know Bad Bunny was Puerto Rican.

[B]

I said, representing Puerto Rico when we were talking about it last week. I might not have said he's from there. I knew he was, but I. You said represent it, and I thought you knew that.

[A]

You guys. I want you guys to understand. And this is crazy. You guys have to understand how little I know about Bad Bunny. It's very important that you guys understand this. I know that Bad Bunny is a gigantic deal. It's impossible not to know that. I flew over the thing, the whole deal. I did not know. Someone told me yesterday or the day before that Bad Bunny has no songs in English, that all of his songs are in Spanish. And for a second, I was an idiot. I was like, well, why is he so popular? And people like. People like the beat and the way he's saying what he's saying. I'm like, so y' all singing along the back, but y' all know what the fuck is being said? And like, no. And I get it. Cause I understand it. Cause there's so many songs I listen to, both in Spanish, in other languages, and just in dialects that I don't understand that I really enjoy. But I have never, ever, ever, ever, ever hit play on a Bad Bunny song. And it's not because the music is whack. It's just because that thing never happened. It just never happened. So I did not know about the badness of the Bunny or the bunniness of the bad.

[B]

Well, you like movies? Do you know what movies he's been in?

[A]

He was in Bullet Train. And I knew that he was in. That people cared that he was in Bullet Train. He was in a different. I've seen Bad. I know Bad Bunny. I've seen Bad Bunny on the wrestling. I know Bad Bunny is a big deal.

[B]

Yeah, I did say that last time. Yes.

[A]

But you know who else I know? You ever heard of the Brazilian singer Anita?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay. I know her.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I've never heard any records either. But I'm familiar, that's all I'm saying, with things that she does. But I've never heard any songs. I wouldn't know any songs. That's what I'm saying. But Bad Bunny is doing the Super bowl and it's time for a van late 10. It's a five. A five things that he should do. And look, I tried to get, you know, specific with this, but I couldn't really. So these, these five things have a theme, okay? At number five, he should do some sort of wrestling shit.

[B]

Okay?

[A]

Just some type of wrestling shit. I'm not sure what he should do. If he needs to give like, I don't know, like a bring out Chris Jericho or someone like that and give a. A flying knee to Chris Jericho, some kind of wrestling shit. He loves wrestling so much. Number five for me is some type of wrestling shit that he should do during the time. Number four, some type of old school reggaeton shit now.

[B]

Like bringing out wanna like a Daddy Yankee.

[A]

Yeah. Because I know he's not reggaeton. I know he is, I guess Spanish trap, Latin trap. What do you say? He talks Dimbo. Dimbao. He's Dembo is what he's saying.

[B]

But he talks a lot about reggaeton and the influence that it had on him and all of that.

[A]

It was such a moment that we don't talk about anymore. We don't talk about. Oh, oh. We don't talk about these people anymore. We don't talk about what were the two sisters and they had, uh.

[B]

Oh.

[A]

We don't. We don't talk. This moment was so. And what were the two guys that were in the Fast and the Furious? What were their names now?

[B]

You know, you know, who are these guys?

[A]

You know what I'm talking about? The guys, they were in the fastest. They were Reggae Tonk. We just don't talk about this era anymore. Nori got down with it for a second. Reggaeton had took over. You know, we just don't talk about it anymore. Just bring those guys out. I feel like they ushered in. I feel like the whole Latin.

[B]

He'll say that. Yeah.

[A]

The Latin explosion that happened around that time gave way to us being more. So do some reggaeton shit. Just some reggaeton shit. Number three, some type of kill Tony shit. And what I mean about some type of kill Tony shit is now that I know that Bad Bunny is a Puerto Rican, the biggest dis to Puerto Ricans ever. Ever. Well, not ever, but the biggest diss to Puerto Ricans in the near pass was when Kiltoni went to the Trump rally and dissed the whole island. This is a chance to stand up for Puerto Rico in front of the whole world. Now a lot of people stood up for Puerto Rico then, but you're at the Super Bowl Now. So some type of kill Tony Diss. Slight thing will go a long way. Get him, bad buddy. Get him. All right, number two. Some type of ice shit. Just some statement about ice. You gotta do it now. Now Ice is coming to the Super Bowl.

[B]

Which we said they would.

[A]

We said that they would. And then they did. Well, you said that they would. Had some people on Twitter wondering if it was you who called ice.

[B]

Okay, I will not dignify that with a response.

[A]

It's not like I would have ever said that. I didn't say that. That's not what I said. I didn't tweet that. But there are people who were like, did Rach call us?

[B]

I didn't see that. I didn't see anybody tweet at me that.

[A]

But okay, well, you're not gonna tweet at you because they don't wanna have to deal with you.

[B]

Well, they do it, which means they don't wanna deal with me.

[A]

Maybe they're afraid of you. Maybe they're. Maybe they're afraid of Nubian.

[B]

Okay, let me pick up the phone again.

[A]

No, don't, don't look. But some type of ice shit. We live in a fraught political time where our Latino brothers and sisters are being harassed and persecuted by masked Gestapo esque secret police on the streets all over the place. There are all kinds of political issues in terms of Puerto Rico, with statehood and what they are and how connected they are to American culture, how respected they are, what more should be done for the island, all that stuff. This is all together a show of Latino Hispanic unity. There something that Bad Bunny has talked about. It seems like it's going to happen. Some type of ice shit is at number two. Number one, some type of gay shit. When I was looking at Bad Bunny, Bad Bunny plays with the idea of El Gay in his performances and stuff, right? He'll kiss el guy, he'll do L fing. I want to see the shock of making America confront it's archaic and dehumanizing homophobia from Bad Bunny. An artist who wears the fluidity right there on his sleeve, talks about it. You see it. Some type make them watch it. Bad Bunny, like, make put it right in their face. People always, they say, I don't want to have to explain it to the. Make them explain it. Well, like, why the Bad Bunny to tell you why? Because some people like that shit. Like that's what they do. And we have to make a good community and society for them too. I thought about this as well. You know what's never happened at the Super Bowl.

[B]

What gay shit.

[A]

Not really. Everybody, when they go to the super bowl, they kind of punt on gay. There've been other artists at the super bowl who really have huge gay audiences. They didn't really do anything in these Super Bowls to really push America as far as that's concerned. And since this is the last Roc Nation joint. We're going to get Garth Brooks. I think he got canceled. We're going to get one of these country people next year anyway. Just go for it. Bad Bunny. That's my five.

[B]

All right.

[A]

Nothing. You have nothing to say? You don't care?

[B]

No, I was looking it up because somebody had messaged me that Roc Nation renewed for another five years. And I was looking up to see if that was the case. And they have. Well, and I didn't know that. And then you said it again and made me think of that. So I was. Great list. I would love to see all those things from Bad Bunny as well. I am a fan.

[A]

What's your favorite Bad Bunny song?

[B]

Probably Titi Me Pregunto. But I first learned about Bud Bunny when he was on. Probably when he was on Cardi's Song. I like it like that. That was probably.

[A]

Yeah, I've heard that song. I've heard that.

[B]

He's raps on it.

[A]

Yeah, okay. So I've heard him on it. So I've heard him on that song. So what does he go?

[B]

What's the Drake song that he's on?

[A]

I definitely ain't hear that, bitch. Whatever that is.

[B]

Yeah, I'm not saying that. Donnie, what's the Drake song?

[A]

Donnie, you fuck with Bad Bunny.

[B]

What's the Drake song that.

[C]

No, I don't really know much of his stuff like that.

[B]

But you know the Drake song that he's on. Oh, my gosh. Why can I not think of.

[C]

Mia, Mia, Mia.

[A]

That's the record. So look, Bad Bunny. Godspeed. Hop around. Hop all over the place. You Bad Bunny. You. You Bad Peter. Cottontail Bunny. Get him. Go get him. Bad Bunny, I support you. All right. And you guys, I'm old. There are people that. People are hitting me up. And these people are coming out of nowhere and I can't keep up. Bad Bunny is one of the biggest artists in the world. Maybe the biggest artists in the world. I get it. I've heard it. I just can't listen to all the music. If I look in my shit right now. If I look in my title right now. I'm listening to MC Breed. Ain't no Future in Your front.

[B]

Okay, you're not there. You're not there. But remember when it was album of the year with Beyonce, and I was like, I thought the Bad Bunny album. Did you get it? I really liked that album. It just. And I mean, it was also a different time for me. That was 2022.

[A]

That's true.

[B]

So I. But I really did like the album.

[A]

Young Stephane, we have Stephan Staphon. How old are you? 34. Stephan, you know Bad Bunny? Yeah, he says he knows Bad Bunny. Ashley, you know him, right?

[B]

I sure do. She's a fan. She's a fan.

[A]

Oh, but he's a big deal in New York because. Oh, Stephon says that Bad Bunny shoots all of his music videos here and that he's a big deal in New York because of the high Latino community, Puerto Rico community that happens here. Maybe Jennifer Lopez will come out.

[B]

Well, I'm sure she would love to. I say no to that. I love the idea. My favorite thing on your list is him paying tribute to reggaeton and bringing that back out.

[A]

That's what he should do. All right, listen.

[B]

Definitely should do.

[A]

You guys, we. A robust show. We explored a lot of things cooking with Grease. Here on Higher Learning, Gavin Newsom. We want to know if you guys want us to interview him. That's what we want to know. We want to know. Hit us up on Twitter. Hit Rachel up.

[B]

If you guys want on Twitter. Y' all DM me because I'm not going to see it on Twitter.

[A]

Like, let us know if you want us to interview Gavin Newsom. We'll put him on. By the way, he did interview. He did sit down with some blick Pentas El Blic.

[B]

Who?

[A]

Marshawn Lynch. He did an interview one time with Beast Mode. Marshawn lynch.

[B]

Ok. Yeah.

[A]

Don't get no blacker than that, Marshawn.

[B]

It would probably be more of a different conversation.

[A]

Yeah. Marshall lynch, smart guy. Smart guy, though.

[B]

Not saying he's not.

[A]

Just making sure. You're not. I'm literally not.

[B]

No. I'm just imagining, like, we have a different type of show. It's probably a friendlier conversation. It has nothing to do with how intelligent he is. Why would you jump to that conclusion? See, you always. If I said that, if I said that to you, you'd be like, see, See, now this is an opportunity for me to point it out. Why on earth would you think I would be assuming that Marshawn lynch is not intelligent?

[A]

I wasn't saying it for you. I wasn't saying it for the audience because There are going to be people that hear that and go, hey, they're being whatever. Marshawn lynch is.

[B]

Different type of interview.

[A]

Yeah, it's a different type of interview. I'm just making sure that no one thinks that we're in any way impugning or looking down on an interview that Marshawn lynch could do. Marshawn lynch is a smart guy. I didn't see that interview, but Gavin Newsom went on there. We'll see what happens. We got a lot of interviews coming up. We got a lot of people reaching out. I'm in New York. I'm going to try to connect with the guy here, okay? The boogeyman of the democratic party. Zoron, while we're out here, try to see if I can. If I can track him down, you know, we'll see what happens, but who knows? All right, that's it.

[B]

Okay. Okay. Go ahead.

[A]

What? Take the caps off. To not stop learning. I'm Van Lathon Jr. I'm sorry that my nose is.

[B]

I love your New York energy. You always got. You got a different energy. You got a. It's a different pep in your step when you're in New York. I like it. I'm Rachel and Lindsay. Bye, guys.