Pam Bondi Fired, the Kidnapping of Gucci Mane, and Underage Dating: Brandy and Wanya Morris

Summary

Higher Learning with Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay
Episode: Pam Bondi Fired, the Kidnapping of Gucci Mane, and Underage Dating: Brandy and Wanya Morris
The Ringer | April 3, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode, Van and Rachel dive into the latest shakeups in U.S. politics (Pam Bondi fired as Attorney General), analyze disturbing allegations in Black pop culture (the reported kidnapping of rapper Gucci Mane), and critically reflect on stories from entertainment history (Brandy and Wanya Morris’ underage relationship). The hosts bring trademark humor, candor, and cultural analysis, breaking down hypocrisy, power dynamics, scandals, and generational change across news, music, and sports.

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Key Discussion Points

1. Pam Bondi Fired: Power, Loyalty, and Trump’s Revolving Cabinet

[00:52–13:12]

• Pam Bondi and Trump’s Use-and-Discard Routine

  • News breaks that Pam Bondi has been fired as Attorney General. Rachel and Van expected it, relating Trump’s treatment of staff to how he “treats his wives: disposable.”
    • "Trump normally treats these cabinet level people kind of like he treated his wives." – Van [01:09]
  • Discussion about the superficial role of women in Trump’s administration: front-facing, but controlled by men behind the scenes for corrupt ends.

• The “Trump Come Walk” Analogy

  • Van uses a graphic metaphor to describe Trump’s treatment of loyalists: "he wants to bust the political nut all over them and then make them walk around in society with the Trump sludge all over their body, but they wear it proudly." [08:45]
  • The hosts discuss how every appointee seems to believe they’ll be the exception.

• Why “Broken Toys” Seek Trump’s Prestige

  • Many appointees, like Pam Bondi, would not hold such posts in a traditional administration. Trump offers power and status in exchange for absolute loyalty.

• Wider Culture of Patronage vs. Meritocracy

  • Van notes this dynamic isn’t unique to Trump or government, but pervades business and finance, with positions handed to insiders, not necessarily the capable.

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2. War with Iran: Politics, Blame, and the Costs at Home

[18:21–44:50]

• War as Distraction from Scandal

  • Rachel connects Bondi’s role with the “Epstein files” and suggests the Iran war distracts from Trump-related scandals.

• Blame and Escalation

  • Detailed breakdown of how the war with Iran is going poorly, with Trump changing objectives, and shifting blame to subordinates to avoid political fallout before midterms.

• Economic Fallout

  • Van and Rachel discuss how Americans won’t accept higher gas and food prices just because Iran is “bad,” and recall the loss of public tolerance for foreign adventures post-Iraq and Afghanistan.

• Shifting Goals and Propaganda

  • Trump and surrogates “sell” new goals after initial ones prove unachievable, now focusing on regime “depowerment” and generalizing Iran as a regional existential threat.

• Notable Quote:
  “There’s not an enemy in the world that exists to where Americans go, it’s worth my pain to get in a fight with that person.” – Van [36:29]

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3. Scandal, Kink, and Hypocrisy: Kristi Noem’s Family in the Spotlight

[45:01–70:00]

• Brian Noem’s “Bimbofication” Fetish

  • Allegations that Kristi Noem’s husband participated in online “bimbofication” communities leads to a discussion about kink, public shaming, and conservative hypocrisy.

• Understanding and Contextualizing Kinks

  • Rachel and Van break down what bimbofication is and discuss why kink communities face stigma, especially when connected to conservative politicians who have worked against LGBTQ+ rights.
  • They argue for open discussion around sexuality, distinguishing between private shame and public hypocrisy (when repression leads to harming others).

• Iconic Banter

  • Hilariously explicit discussions of “come walks” and “tit(meat)” punctuate serious observations on the need for empathy versus the right to critique hypocrisy.
    • “If we all hoes, then nobody’s a ho.” – Van [139:18]

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4. Gucci Mane’s Kidnapping: Crime, Clout and Changing Street Codes

[72:10–89:25]

• Alleged Kidnapping of Gucci Mane

  • Reports confirm that rapper Gucci Mane was kidnapped and robbed by Pooh Shiesty and Big 30; nine arrests were made.

• Culture Shift: Clout Over Caution

  • Van and Rachel note a generational shift in street crime:
    • “Do you want to get away? …it’s like if I don’t brag about it, if I don’t show what I did, then this never happened.” – Rachel [82:06]
  • In the era of drill, social media, and clout chasing, criminals now flaunt evidence online, making convictions easier.

• Cultural Dilemma: "Snitching" and Authenticity

  • Discussion if Gucci Mane can cooperate with authorities (“snitch”) and maintain street credibility.

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5. Sports & Free Speech: Jaden Ivey Waived Over Homophobic Speech

[89:25–103:15]

• Jaden Ivey’s Dismissal

  • Jaden Ivey (NBA) is cut from the Bulls after preaching anti-LGBTQ views in public and to teammates, despite the NBA’s embrace of Pride.

• Debate: Free Speech vs. Hate Speech

  • The hosts parse the difference between expressing personal beliefs vs. spreading rhetoric that’s “harmful …used to empower narratives that makes people’s lives smaller.” [94:50]
  • Both agree teams are right to release players for conduct “detrimental to the team.”

• Mental Health and Accountability

  • Rachel wonders if Ivey’s conduct signals mental health issues, and worries about aftercare rather than mere punishment.

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6. Brandy & Wanya Morris: Revisiting Underage Relationships in Pop Culture

[104:50–129:14]

• Brandy’s Memoir Reveals Emotional Damage

  • Brandy’s new book details her secret relationship at 16 with Wanya Morris (then early 20s), including emotional manipulation and her loss of virginity.
  • Old audio (2014) is replayed where Wanya jokes about the age gap and even legality:
    • “She was old enough to get it.” – Wanya Morris [106:44]

• Cultural Change & Retrospective Accountability

  • Van and Rachel reflect on how such relationships were normalized or ignored in the ‘90s, contrasting to today’s post-#MeToo climate.
    • “Nobody made a big deal about it then. Now it’s clearly fucked.” – Van [108:10]
  • Discussion of power imbalance, industry exploitation, and why women’s voices (like Brandy’s) are essential for setting new societal standards.

• Generational Perspective

  • The normalization of older men dating much younger girls in entertainment and society, referencing Jerry Seinfeld, R. Kelly and Aaliyah, Jerry Lee Lewis, and even Saved by the Bell storylines.

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7. Wildest Clip: Deontay Wilder and the Sperm-Theft Tale

[130:44–141:35]

• Deontay Wilder’s Bizarre Story

  • The boxer claims his child’s mother “stole” his sperm from her stomach to self-inseminate because “he was the best thing that ever happened to her.”
  • Rachel and Van lampoon the story, criticizing Wilder’s misogyny and self-aggrandizement.
    • "Deontay Wilder tells us he's smart, and then proceeds to continue for 90 seconds to show us how smart, in fact, he is not." – Rachel [132:56]
  • Rachel highlights the double standard in labeling women promiscuous but not men.

• Philosophy of Promiscuity

  • Van on “fuckies” vs. “foodies”:
    • “If we all hoes, then nobody’s a ho.” [139:18]

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• “Trump wants to bust the political nut all over them and then make them walk around in society with the Trump sludge all over their body, but they wear it proudly.” – Van [08:45]
• “Your belief system is not a shield. Right. It doesn’t excuse it.” – Rachel [96:52]
• “I know two things. Number one, I know that dudes as seniors in college should not be fucking with sophomores in high school.” – Van [128:40]
• "The hosts’ playful riffing on 'come walking' and 'bimbofication' becomes a surprisingly poignant segue into shaming, repression, and why letting people live is important—as long as they aren’t hurting others or being hypocrites."

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Timestamps for Major Segments

• Pam Bondi’s Firing and Trump Cabinet Loyalty: [00:52–13:12]
• Iran War and Political Strategy: [18:21–44:50]
• Kristi Noem Family/Bimbofication Scandal: [45:01–70:00]
• Gucci Mane Kidnapping Allegations: [72:10–89:25]
• Jaden Ivey, NBA, and Hate Speech: [89:25–103:15]
• Brandy & Wanya Morris Relationship: [104:50–129:14]
• Deontay Wilder’s Sperm-Theft Anecdote: [130:44–141:35]

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Final Thoughts

This episode is a showcase of Higher Learning’s ability to blend sharp, sometimes raw, cultural criticism and humor with sincere social reflection. From dissecting political machinations, calling out hypocrisy, and confronting uncomfortable truths in pop culture history, Van and Rachel keep the dialogue real, challenging, and fresh—never shying from controversy or complexity.

Listeners will leave with:

• Insight into current political scandals
• A candid look at generational change in culture and accountability
• Laughs (and maybe a few uncomfortable moments) over society’s wildest headlines

Hosts:

• Van Lathan Jr.
• Rachel Lindsay

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End of Summary.

Transcript

[A]

Foreign. Yo, yo, yo, Thought warriors. What is up? Higher learning is on. It is Ivan Lathan Jr. And it

[B]

is me, Rachel and Lindsey.

[A]

We should start doing the intro to camera.

[B]

Sometimes I do, but I feel like we're always like moving when we start, you know, because like when you're ready to go, you're ready to go. You're like, what's up guys? We all, oh, let's try it again.

[A]

Let's do it to camera. Rachel, do it to her camera. I'll do it to my camera. Let's see how this works. This is visual. If you're not watching on YouTube or Spotify, you can't see this. Hold on, I gotta put the glasses on for this. I've heard the. Yo, yo, yo, Thought warriors. What is up? Higher learning is on. It is Ivan Lathan Jr. And it's

[B]

me, Rachel and Lindsey.

[A]

Nigger time. Okay, so we have to start with breaking news. It looks like Pam Bondi has been fired as Attorney General. She's out. She's done. Fuck out.

[B]

Bye. But we knew it was coming. I didn't think she was gonna last the full term, did you?

[A]

No. I mean Trump normally treats these cabinet level people kind of like he treated his wives.

[B]

And what is that? Disposable.

[A]

Yeah. Use you for your youthfulness. Like when you have use to him and then kick you out and have kids with somebody new.

[B]

I know in the first term it wasn't just women, but I'm just saying, like, I think that's just a general. Just in general how Trump treats women. No respect, no regard. Like they're disposable, like they come and go. She served a purpose. You pointed it out when we were talking about Kristi Nallen, which I believe was that breaking news too. When we were on the podcast. I don't know, but when we were talking about Kristi n, we started talking about the women who are front facing in these positions and that's all they seem to be, they seem to be there to serve a purpose and it's really, they're just the face and the men behind them are the ones pulling the strings. And really the ones. I mean, they're all corrupt.

[A]

But who's all corrupt?

[B]

I mean, I think all these people that are in this administration are corrupt. But I'm saying that the people behind them seem to be the ones making the decisions and the women seem to be out front. I mean, it's already being reported as well. Tulsi Gabbard might be out as well. Another one. Another one. Bites the dust.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. So once again, Trump. It's more important for Donald Trump to have people around him that are subordinate to him that can do two things. Number one, that can be people who launder his reputation at all times. Get out there, no matter what's happening. President Trump is the greatest. President Trump is fantastic. President Trump's leadership led me to refinancing my second home with a fantastic rate. President Trump's leadership led me to be able to experience the joys of raw milk and flying first class instead of coach. It was President Trump's leadership that allowed my kids soccer team to win their division with a goal differential of plus 5. And so that's what they did. Everything that happens, President Trump's leadership stars. The stars.

[B]

Sure, sure.

[A]

Everything. Quasars, different types of situations, black holes, wormholes, all of this. Interstellar. Christopher Nolan, whatever you, Oppenheimer, all of that stuff due to President Trump's leadership. It's his leadership that got us to that path. To be able to see bane in the dark.

[B]

Sound just like them.

[A]

That's what they do. Whatever it is. Throw me something and I'll tell you how it was President Trump's leadership that got us there. Give me an idea.

[B]

Throw you anything.

[A]

Any. Just throw it out there.

[B]

I'm trying to think of sinners winning the Oscar.

[A]

President Trump's leadership how? Because that happened in the uk.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

That's how it got started. Got started at the baftas.

[B]

Not sure how quite.

[A]

Oh, got started at the baftas. Right. Got started at the baftas. Now what? The guy in the audience at the baftas would have felt like he had the free speech to say the N word if not for President Trump's leadership on, like, opening up free speech to say the N word on Twitter, where the N word went through the roof. Okay, follow me.

[B]

Okay. I am right.

[A]

Then the N word kind of, you know, demystified, you know, uncensored. He says the N word, people go, oh, my God, it's terrible for sinners. Mike wins that night. There's a groundswell. President Trump's leadership influenced that, influenced what happened at the Oscars. As the town went, hey, that's so terrible. What happened to sinners, to Michael B. Jordan. And then he wins President Trump's leadership. I also say this because I don't believe that, because I believe that Michael B. Jordan gave the best performance of last year and he deserved to win. But I'll say this, it could also be looked at as President Trump's leadership to get that in the first place, because President Trump is a deep believer, deep believer in sin, in historical racism, in niggas on plantations and all of those things, which helps people understand the consciousness of that movie. All right. The racialisms of it comes back. Prison, trust, leadership.

[B]

Wow, wow, wow. You did it.

[A]

So that's what they do. But then after you're done doing that,

[B]

you're out, you're out. Everybody serves a purpose.

[A]

You're out.

[B]

Yeah, I mean, all right, Bondi's out,

[A]

Bondi's out, Gabbard's out. He cycles through them.

[B]

Do you think, though it is because we're not really done with the Epstein files. And let's just say we'll get into Trump addressing the nation, but let's just say we do pull out of the war next week, right? Let's just say we do. Let's just say magically gas prices go down. All the things that Trump believes he accomplished so quickly in Venezuela, he was able to do in Iran. Let's just say that, right? Best case scenario for Trump and his administration, people are going to come back to the Epstein files. They'll eventually find their way back there, right? Because we know that among other things as to why we entered this war, one of them is a distraction. So now what? Because Pam Bondi was leading the charge. Pam Bondi was the one who was going toe to toe with the Senate, was going toe to toe with congressmen and women. And I mean, she really made that her mission. That's her legacy right there. That is literally it. So now who takes the reins? Who's gonna do that? Because we will come back to the Epstein files. I don't think that despite what the Trump administration thinks, that they throw in a bunch of distractions our way. I do think people are so invested that we will circle back. We still have over two years left for him to be in office. What do you think will happen? You think he can't bring her back?

[A]

Bring who back?

[B]

Pam?

[A]

No, no, no, no, no. Whoever he puts in that role is gonna act exactly the way that he wants him to. Because if there's anything wanna be.

[B]

Blanche.

[A]

Well, I mean, look, some are saying that Lee Zelda might take over as agent. He might take Lee Zeldin off the epa, put Lee Zeldin in there. It seems as if, like these high profile Republicans, they don't read good. Like the Zoolander School for Kids who don't read good. So they can't read the accounts of people that have come before them. They can't read the accounts of Scaramucci or Cohen or Flynn or Bolton. Some of these guys are like, grotesque, right? Or Mike Pence. Who? The president sent an angry mob into the Capitol. They want to hang Mike Pence. Seems like those accounts, they don't read good. Really? Seems like America, in a way, don't read good. We put the guy back in office. Whatever, however. Whatever, man. Whatever. Fuck. But for Pam Bondi, Dni Gabbard or Kristi Noem or any of these people, this is the way it ends. This is how it ends. You take shrapnel for him, you take bullets for him. Then when he's done, after he's bused the political nut all over you, he then makes you do you ever heard of a come walk?

[B]

I'm not familiar.

[A]

So that's something that. There's a fetish that people do.

[B]

Gosh, we'll get into that later, too. Fetishes.

[A]

It gets all over their face. And then they walk through a public place.

[B]

I have never heard of this. That's a thing like they walk through like a mall.

[A]

Like a mall with it all over their face.

[B]

Have you seen this in real life? No. I don't know. I know your past. I know your past. I'm talking about in real life.

[A]

Well, no, I've never seen it in real life. In real life, I would probably.

[B]

You probably wouldn't think that that's. Well, maybe because I never heard this before, but I probably wouldn't think that's what that was.

[A]

Right. Well, that's what Trump wants people to do. He wants to bust the political nut all over them and then make them walk around in society with the Trump sludge all over their body, but they wear it proudly. They wear it proudly.

[B]

You know what, though? It's like part of. I mean, you could call it cultish behavior or whatever, President Trump's charm, but it's as if every person who steps into these role feels that they will be different or there is maybe the glimmer of hope that he gives them, that this person was this, you won't be this. And this is why I'm putting you here. And they believe that for them it'll be a different situation. I think they all do that going in. There's no way that they think, I'm only going to be here for a second and then somebody else is going to take the reins. No. Take the reins, no. They truly believe I'll be. I'm the chosen one. It will be different for me. And time and time again, Trump's the one who's consistent.

[A]

It's partly that, which I agree with, and it's partly something else. What A lot of these people would never have the opportunity at these posts and positions in any semi regular administration.

[B]

You are correct.

[A]

Hexseth has fucking no chance in his life to ever be the Secretary of State. Ever. Excuse me. Secretary of Defense, Secretary of War, Secretary of kicking people, Secretary of bombing shit for no reason. Secretary of drinking. Like he has no chance to be that. It's not ever gonna happen for him.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So when he. His entire life, the number one thing now for Pete Hess's life and legacy is going to be the fact that he was the Defense Secretary, which is an incredibly powerful position, I think, not in the American government, but in the world. So Donald Trump offers that to them. They can't not take it. Nobody in their right mind is gonna make Pam Bondi the ag. It's not gonna happen.

[B]

No.

[A]

A lot of these other. Kristi Noem's different. She was pretty successful in political life. And there are some other people, but Tulsi Gabbard was in the political wilderness. So what he does is he finds these broken toys and he gifts them with position and prestige.

[B]

Nobody would have made Kristi Noem head of the Department of Homeland Security.

[A]

Fair point. Stranger things have sort of happened. But like you're.

[B]

It's just no policing.

[A]

But what I'm. What I'm saying is that, like, for those people, those are positions that they are only placed in because of what he needs them to do.

[B]

You're correct.

[A]

And this is, you know, even deeper than the Trump administration itself. This is kind of the. This is what we're talking about. So if you're a black in this country, if you're a black woman, if you're black, you have to have the conversation about dei, what you earned, like how you got there.

[B]

You have to prove it. You have to.

[A]

You have to prove it. Right. But what we know, both from statistical analysis, what we sort of can intuit, what we know is that there is a system of powerful people that put other people in places to do their business, and not only in government, that a lot of the financial wizards that you hear from are not financial wizards at all. What they are are people who are essentially insider trading.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because they have proximity to really powerful people who tell them, when I'm gonna take the money from the pension program and invest it into this. So buy a lot of this. Or, hey, I run this here. This is my fucking cousin or my. Whatever. This is the guy I went to fucking. I'm in a skull and bone society with. We realize that there's actually no intellectual basis for the idea that the smartest, brightest, most capable people are running the country.

[B]

Right. Right.

[A]

And so stuff like this, she was put there to do this. Now she will be disgraced. And what she will do, sometimes they write books and go rogue and do the whole thing. But what she will do is for the rest of her political career, she will do the Trump come walk.

[B]

And well, she has to because of the reports that are coming out about what she did to protect Donald Trump while she was in office in the Epstein files. There are implications here for her legally, possibly. And so if what's being reported is true, so she has to shut up. She can't write a book, she can't turn on them. I mean, unless she becomes like, I don't know, some kind of witness for the government or, I mean, if they decide to go after Trump in some kind of way. But she's, yeah, like this is it for her. Or unless she gets appointed to the same office that Kristi Noem did, just gather them all there. What is a special. What is it? Did you know about one in three people with plaque psoriasis may also develop psoriatic arthritis, which causes joint pain, stiffness and swelling. Does this sound like you listen to what it sounds like to be a million miles away. Tremphya Guselcomab, taken by injection, is a prescription medicine for adults with moderate to severe plaque psoriasis who may benefit from taking injections or pills or phototherapy. And for adults with active psoriatic arthritis, serious allergic reactions and increased risk of infections and liver problems may occur. Before treatment, your doctor should check you for infections and tuberculosis. Tell your doctor if you have an infection, flu like symptoms or if you need a vaccine. Imagine being a million miles away. Explore what's possible. Ask your doctor about trimfaya. Tap this ad to learn more about trimfaya, including important safety information.

[A]

This episode is brought to you by the Home Depot. Spring is starting, so it's time to wake up your yard. And at the Home Depot, they've got everything you need to do it. With low prices, guaranteed. Mowing your lawn is a dream. With top brand outdoor power tools like the Ryobi 40 volt mower with up to 50 minutes of runtime, you can add a pop of color with spring blooms and fresh plants and refresh your garden beds with EarthGrow mulch. Five bags for just $10. Start your spring with low prices now through April first available at the Home Depot. Exclusions apply. See homedepot.com pricematch for details. I don't know what it is, but yeah. So there's a report out there right now. There's a report out right now that Pam Bondi pulled people off of counterterrorism to scour and redact the Epstein files. Sit on that for a second. That is.

[B]

What you were.

[A]

You got a pause in right there. When I said sit on that, you reacted.

[B]

Not for that reason. My mind actually didn't even go there. My mind did not even go there

[A]

as soon as I said, sit on that. Rachel wanted to pause that, but she can't because it won't fly in her circle of people who are judgmental. Okay, so Bondi's out. Nome is out. Gabbard is out.

[B]

She's about to be.

[A]

She's about to. Gabbert's going to be out. She's going to be the next to fall. Who do you think is after Gabbard? Who you think goes? Who's the next one? Make a determination. Get the fuck out.

[B]

Well, damn it. It would have been Gabbard. Who. Who could it be?

[A]

Yes. Get the fuck out of here. Get out. Get up. Get out of the fucking.

[B]

Oh. I mean, she's pregnant. But the press secretary. Why can't I think of her name right now?

[A]

Caroline Levitt.

[B]

Levitt.

[A]

So I'm running. I'm taking Oz. I want the higher learning audience.

[B]

You take an Oz. Oh, I thought you said you were taking Dr. Oz.

[A]

I want the higher learning audience to consider these two people. It's either Levitt or Hegseth.

[B]

Okay? In Trump's speech, which we watched 19 minutes of nothing, he went down, which I thought was funny. Probably the funniest part to me. He gave us a history lesson of the wars and how many days or years each war we've been involved in and how long they've been. And he ended on what he believed to be a very powerful note by saying, and we've been in Operation epic Fury for 32 days. And like the gag is. And we're still. And counting. 32 and counting, you idiot. And I say that to say, with Hegseth, how many days do you think the war keeps going before he's the guy that's out? How long do you think we have?

[A]

He won't be fired.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

As long as the war is going on.

[B]

So if it goes on for another year, you think Hegseth is still at the helm.

[A]

Interesting point. Let me revise What I'm saying, he won't be fired in the short term.

[B]

Okay. Okay.

[A]

As long as the war is going on. As the war drags on, if it does drag on, if it gets to the fall, I think Trump will be desperate to end the war before the midterms. Just desperate. The question is not whether or not Trump wants to end the war. He wants to end the war now.

[B]

Yeah, no, he does. That's why he's changing his goals and objectives right now to fit a more favorable narrative to him.

[A]

The question is, can he end it? Is it possible for him to end it? If right now, Trump leaves and this has to do with. I'll get back to Hexeth. But this has to do with kind of, you know, it's really part of what we do and how we can educate the American public on what's actually happening. Trump leaves right now, declares victory. We decimated Iran's navy. All the stuff you guys heard in the.

[B]

The speech.

[A]

The speech. We decimated Iran's navy. We did all of this stuff. Trump leaves right now. He's gone.

[B]

Boom.

[A]

Whatever. Well, what currently hasn't been decimated is Iran's ability to control the Strait of Hormuz and bomb ships that come in and out of the Strait of Hormuz or threaten to you guys. You don't have to hit every ship that comes into the Strait of Hormuz. The threat has to be so real that tankers that are coming through there A, don't want to come through there, and then, B, the insurance on tankers coming through the strait makes it economically not feasible to send ships through there. Right. So there's all kinds of ways that Iran, with really low military effort, can control the strait unless ground troops are sent in to eliminate the threat. When and if that happens, that will be bloody for those ground troops. And there are people who believe that the American political will, in terms of the citizens of the country, it won't withstand the slaughter of 500, 1000, how many ever Marines that it would take to go in there and secure that to where Iran could no longer control the strait. Right. So the President is probably getting different information on what he should do, which is take away Iran's ability to control the strait. Right. And legitimately put a chokehold on the economy of the entire world. I mean, we're talking about gas prices here. There's stuff going on in other countries where they're starting to ration energy. Yeah.

[B]

That's what we might be in, a food crisis.

[A]

Right. Where it starts to get the fertilizer. Comes to the straight. All kinds of different things. It's bad. Like, it's a bad situation. The Iranians are not going to stop. They want a new world order as it relates to dealings with Iran. They want assurances, they want reparations. And I know the Republicans, not trying to play none of that. They want reparations for all the damage done to them. There's no way for Trump to get out of this with a deal with the Iranians that would make anybody that's halfway, halfway looking at this objectively, think that we won. Right. So the question then is, who do you blame this on? Like, who gets the blame for us doing that? President Trump will never take the blame, the responsibility for anything. I don't think that Rubio. It's certainly not going to be anyone that. It's not going to be Netanyahu. It's not going to lead to a Fisher in the American Israeli relationship. Right. Won't be Huckabee. It won't be any of the other people that really, really wanted this war. It'll be someone from inside the administration, inside the cabinet, that he thinks either mishandled it or he can sell. Either mishandled it or talk them into it. Yeah.

[B]

I mean, he's definitely gonna say that he was advised wrong. Right. But will the public believe that it was Hegseth that actually was the one who advised him wrong? Would that actually fly? I don't know. I, like, I think people really look at Hegseth as a joke.

[A]

Well, I mean, I don't.

[B]

I do think it's inevitable. I absolutely think he will not be there the entire four years.

[A]

Right.

[B]

You know, and I say love it, because they'll probably use her pregnancy and

[A]

she'll probably won't come back after it. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. Like, I think. And he's. And he's. We've seen him fuck up already. So it's kind of like, all right, one too many. We've seen it from almost immediately when he started. But I just. I don't even know if the public would even buy that. If it comes down to us being stuck in this war and you blame it on Hegseth, it's kind of like.

[A]

Well, I mean.

[B]

But I agree with you. I'm just.

[A]

I guess I'm just, like, thinking this is my thing. We're even past the point of what we buy. And what we don't buy actually doesn't

[B]

matter, because the reality is it doesn't matter for Trump. It matters for the Midterms, which is

[A]

why the midterms are lost, which is

[B]

why to your point, he wants this to end immediately. It does matter as far as for the Republican Party. Maybe it doesn't matter for Trump. It doesn't matter for Trump by any means.

[A]

Well, so this is a nice, robust, I'm liking this conversation. This is a nice, robust conversation. When you say Republican Party, even that is interesting to me.

[B]

Cause I'm thinking of the future of this party. Right. I think why there's this desperation around 2026, it's why we're trying to change rules and laws domestically. Because you're trying to control 2026. Because what is happening currently with the administration, both here, domestically and internationally is going to affect the midterms. So I say it will impact, it won't have any effect on Trump. Like that's a lost cause. Nothing seems to be able to touch him in the way that people have their allegiance to him or the way they view him. But it will reflect the party. People will turn their blame to Congress, certainly.

[A]

I think the question that I'm asking is, all right, so people, if you are a congressman right now, Congressman, Congresswoman, you're in a contested fight in the Senate or you're in a House district that seems to be trending towards the Democrats, it seems to me before this war you'd already have been sounding the alarm to the president. Oh yeah. You would have already been talking about openly and honestly about what it is that you believe and putting some distance in between yourself and ICE overreaches you, yourself and ASP and government shutdowns and just the chaos that comes along with the Trump administration. But they're not doing that. By and large, the ones that are doing that are being excoriated, they're outside of the collegial Republican talking, thinking they don't get invited to package to talk. They don't get to have conversations. The ones outside of that thing are, you know, Thomas Massie, Tucker Carlson, increasingly Megyn Kelly. And I mean, whatever. All of these people, just to be real with you, all of these people to be real with you, as Emma spoke to when she was here, all of these people are still trying to toe the line like Carlson, for all of the love that he's getting for calling out Israel and for being anti war, he's really doing that in a self serving way, laundering his own support for Trump, his own reputation, because he refuses to put all of this at the feet of the president.

[B]

Correct.

[A]

And that's because that is still the thing that you cannot do and be inside the family. So of all the people that we're talking about and the Republicans themselves, there is a capture that still exists with Donald Trump.

[B]

With Trump.

[A]

But that capture is the thing that unites the party. So that's the only thing that unites the party right now. Because if we were talking about ideals or what they said that they were about, you have to remember that they've already gone back on all of that. Trump spins like crazy. And they're supposed to be the. The party of fiscal conservatism. Trump is increasingly hawkish in foreign adventurism and wars. And they were supposed to be the anti war party. They were supposed to be the economic party.

[B]

Correct.

[A]

The economy's in shambles. This war is costing a lot of money. It was supposed to be your gas prices would come down, your gas prices are up. Almost everything, everything, with the exception of the southern border, almost everything that they said that they were going to do is opposite. It's trending away from all of their stated goals. However, the party remains intact. And they remain intact because they're doing what the President says that they should do.

[B]

Which my point is, I agree with you. I was saying the midterms and the future of the party. Because the future of the party, assuming we don't, Trump doesn't try to run again or whatever with that. The future of the party, to your point, it is centered right now. It's currently centered around Trump. That's what keeps it together. Trump is gone, so is the party. So that's what I'm saying. It only impacts. It impacts the future of the party.

[A]

You know who, to me. And we can move into the other parts of this. I mean, just to catch you guys up, the president's address last night said nothing. The president didn't announce that ground troops were going in. Some people thought he would do that. He didn't announce that the war was ending.

[B]

He didn't announce a plan.

[A]

He didn't announce a plan. He basically.

[B]

He said things that were already done. It's the same talking points already over and over again.

[A]

Well, the point of the address to the nation last night, in my opinion, was really to try to double and triple down on how bad the Iranian regime is and to make people believe that there was a reason for us to have done this.

[B]

But he's kind of backing away from regime change. He's kind of backing away, which is what I was referencing when he's talking, when you talk about him wanting this to be favorable to him. Because if he's trying to change the objectives and the goals of the administration or what they were trying to do, because he wants it to read favorably to him, regime change is not like, even in his speech, he's like, okay, we did this back in. Was it 2019? We took out this person. Oh, we just took out these leaders recently. But even the government admits that the Iranian government is still intact. It's still there. So it seems as if he's changing the goals of what they're actually going in there and try to do, rather than saying initially it was they're killing all these Iranians, which they are, the people are protesting, the people want change. We're gonna go in there and do that. And now he's kind of moving away from that and switching it to something else. I mean, I think the point of him addressing the nation is because people keep saying, you need to address the nation. I truly think the only reason he did it is because people say, we're over a month in. You said this is not what it would be. You need to say something to the public. And all he did was repeat the exact same things and contradict himself. The war will be over soon, but I'm also gonna threaten you with possible future attacks. That's all he did.

[A]

So regime change is not what he's selling now.

[B]

Correct?

[A]

Yes, I know, but he is selling regime depowerment. And in order to sell regime to powerment, he has to give reasons why that's important. And so every other stated goal of the war has fallen flat. And so you have to invent a new goal. And the new goal which these talking points have been in circles, if you watch the debate shows, if you watch people talking about this, the people that are doing this for President Trump, this is how bad Iran is. These are all the things that Iran, that the Islamic Republic has done for 47 years. These are all the times that we should have gone in, nevermind that President Trump has accused other presidents of wanting to start wars with Iran when they get in political trouble. Said that about Barack Obama. He also said that if Kamala Harris, a bunch of people say if Kamala Harris was arrested, if she was elected, that she would go to war in Iran. So it's been something that he has said before that a president would do for a political reason. But the regime change situation, that goal is not happening. There doesn't look to be any. Even the goal of obliterating Iran's nuclear capability is dicey. It's dicey for myriad reasons. It's dicey because the Iranian nuclear program has been around for a while. Right. There's a lot of technical. Know how that goes into that. So you wouldn't just necessarily have to kill or dismantle. You'd kill all the scientists is one thing. Blow up all the infrastructure is another thing. But you'd also have to give some sort of assurance that. That the intelligence that goes into building a program like that is also gone. There's no really way you can do that. Right. That they wouldn't be able to reconstitute. That would take full regime change. That would take you going in there and putting Pavel V or someone else in there. That gives you assurances, and not just gives you assurances, but whose best interest it's in to not develop nuclear weapons.

[B]

But they are selling that. That is the goal. Right? They are selling that. Not that they're just destroying it, but they're destroying their capability to make nuclear weapons. That's what they're selling.

[A]

They're saying it. I don't know if they're selling it.

[B]

Definitely Bibi is saying that.

[A]

Well, I mean, even now, though, so if you. I really encourage everyone to do as much on this. I know everybody's going through a lot. You guys out there, the summer's coming, y' all all in the gyms. But when you can go out there and just try to be a little bit curious into what it actually takes to go into a country and completely pull apart their nuclear capability. Right, yeah. We should also say this. There is just no real evidence that Iran has ever been, for a long time, at least for a long time, at least, has been serious and desperate to acquire nuclear weapons. While it's true that the Iranians have enriched uranium to 60%, there's an argument to be made that the reason why they ENRICH Uranium to 60%, which is getting towards the threshold that you need to take everything with weapons grade, is because of the fact that it was a bargaining tool to get everyone back to the table. It showed that they could enrich it to 60% and that perhaps that would get the west off of their back in terms of economic sanctions or get everybody back to the negotiating table after Soleimani was taken out and all of that stuff like that, to remain a thorn in the hair in the side, should I say, of the west, so that they didn't think that the Iranians were contained, that they continue to be dangerous because all kinds of stuff, it's all out there. There's a fatwa that was issued in the 2000s by the Ayatollah that said that they would not basically made it haram to achieve nuclear weapons. Then they came to the negotiating table for the JCPOA to get rid of their program. Right. So they've actually, as far as the nuclear question, them having proxies in a region. That's true. But in terms of the nuclear question, there's not a lot of reason to believe that, that the Iranians are a crazy sort of like religious, cultish type government that is desperate to build a nuclear weapon and then wants to use it on the west or Israel. There's not a lot of reason to believe that.

[B]

Well, that's what they're telling. But I hear you.

[A]

My point in saying that is what you now have to do is say forget about the nuclear program. Like really forget about it. Iran was dangerous without nuclear weapons. Which was, I feel like was the point of the speech. The point of the speech wasn't about necessarily the nuclear program says we've obliterated that. But it was more than that. It was, we've obliterated their navy, we've obliterated their air force, we've obliterated their ability to wage war because that makes everyone in the region safer. That's a, that's a new goal. That's a goal that wasn't really stated before. If President Trump and Netanyahu and the rest of the forces involved here would just be like, the Iranians are just too dangerous. We gotta go in there right now. That wouldn't have even flown. That wouldn't have even given the Scott Jennings of the world, the talking heads, enough red meat to go on the networks and defend it. And defend it. That wouldn't have been enough. Now that we're there, it has to be enough because the other goals can't be achieved.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So like that last night was, I will tell you how bad they are. These are the amount of American soldiers they've killed here. This is the amount of American soldiers they've killed here. These people are bad. They had to go and we'll see how, how people, how much people accept that. But I can tell you what say what's not going to happen is no one's going to the gas pump and seeing $7 gas and then going, I'm so happy we took out Iran. Of course, it just doesn't work that way.

[B]

Of course.

[A]

And like no one is going to see rising food costs. No one's going to see like dead American servicemen and go, you know, we had to do this. Yeah. In order for that to happen, the threat has to be just so much more existential. I'm not so sure there's an enemy in the world that exists that Americans feel that way about, and that's bad for politicians. I don't know that there's an. I don't know that there's an enemy in the world that exists to where Americans go. It's worth my pain to get in a fight with that person.

[B]

Well, especially not now. Especially because we've been going through it for such a long time. I think you could sell it. If this was new, if this was a new problem, right, where prices are going up, where inflation is going up, where people's pocketbooks have been hit, where people are having to make a decision to pay this versus this, where job. Where the jobs aren't decreasing. Like, there's so much happening that to your point, right now, there isn't anybody. If it was a, if it was new, then maybe that they could.

[A]

What was new?

[B]

If an economy where people are suffering, where people are, where prices are up, where gas prices are up, where jobs are, like, people can't find a job. Like, if that was all new, like, let's just say that just happened in March, in addition to this, then they could probably link the two. And I think people could get on board with, okay, there is an enemy that this is worth fighting for, because you could almost link this problem to this problem. You can't do that. We've been struggling. You were supposed to be the regime, to your point that you said earlier that came in to fix this. Instead, you've only increased it with no vision of it changing anytime soon. So to me, when I, you know, like, I understand what you're saying about the point, your point that you believe that Trump made the speech tonight. If I'm an American and I'm listening to this, I'm looking for answers to how I'm going to get out of this. And there was nothing that you said in this speech to make me believe, oh, the end is near, oh, we're turning a corner. All you're doing is justifying your presence there. But for how long? For how long are we going to suffer? You know, you throw out Venezuela, I thought that was a very frustrating thing. He throws out Venezuela and what they did there and how quickly it happened. We're already past that when it comes to Iran. So, like, what are you, what assurance are you giving us? Which is why today, like, stock prices and everything went down. It's like what assurances are you giving us? The market? I should say that this is going to be better, that there is a way out of it, that this was necessary and it will benefit Americans. At the end of the day, you haven't. If I'm tuning in as an American, that's what I was listening for.

[A]

Right. And we'll get into this stuff today. But I guess my point is that that used to be something that was correct.

[B]

I get your point because you tie the two together.

[A]

Well, if we're talking about Iraq and Afghanistan and 911 was right there. Okay? So look, we know that we're in danger. Like, we know that we're in danger. Go get the bad guys. What happened is that all of the goodwill that existed at first with that, even though there were still plenty of people during the invasion of Iraq that were like, this is too far. This has nothing to do with what went on. I was one of them. I was there. I was a college aged young man. And there was plenty of dissension, debate and protesting that went along at the beginning of that war. Forget about mission accomplished and the quagmire that ended up happening and all that stuff. Forget about all the time we thought that we. All of that at the beginning, the outset of it. Invading a foreign nation, a foreign sovereign nation that hadn't attacked you. There's plenty of conversation about whether or not that was legal under international law. All kinds of different things. I was there, it happened. But if you look at the trajectory of war since World War II, since Korea, then into Vietnam and then into stamping out, sending troops all over the world in defense of democracy, into the first Desert Storm, first Iraq War, the first Iraq war was a shot in the arm to America's military sort of fantasy because it was so successful. It was so successful. It just displayed this unbelievable amount of technological might and logistical capability that the whole world was like, oh shit, they on their shit, like only superpower in the world. Look what they can do. And after that, I mean, Vietnam was obviously completely fucked up. And the entire world saw the limits of not just American military power, but the limits of the political will of the American public to endure that type of carnage for their sons and daughters that went over to fight the war. They saw that after Iraq and Afghanistan, after hundreds, thousands of thousands of suicides with guys coming home, trillions of dollars, a million dead in the Middle east, there is a feeling and a thought that if we are going to go around the world stomping people out with our boot, that there's gotta be a good reason for it. And you know who knew that? Trump knew it. Because part of the rise of Trump was that all of the people in that room that made that decision were wrong. And they made the decision not because it was in the best interest of Americans, because it was in the best interest of something else. And that he could see that and that he wasn't that. Then those same neocons that talked up that war, he empowered them, and now this one is much more baffling, much more baffling than anything we've done in a long time. And he thinks he got it like that to where it makes sense, because he says it makes sense. And. And for some it will. But for a lot of people, they gonna be like, that's not good enough. Particularly in this one, because Saddam Hussein being who he was, the Taliban being who they were, they had limited ability, limited ability to affect the American economy, to affect the world economy, the way closing the Strait of Hormuz does. Yeah.

[B]

Oh, for sure.

[A]

So. So right now, the fact that the Iranians are committed to that. I'll say something else. Last thing. Trump said that he is completely committed to, if necessary, destroying Iranian electrical capability, civilian electrical grids and energy stuff and all that. First of all, that's illegal. That's a war crime. Number one, everyone should know that that's illegal. That's a war crime. Secondly, if Iran really, and this would be a cataclysmic move if Iran really starts hitting desalinization plants in the Gulf countries, we're climbing the escalation ladder to a degree that no one can really lay out or even really articulate, because now you're essentially, you're starving those countries, now they can't drink water. And at that point, I don't know what happens next. You might get tactical nukes used in the war, because at that point, you don't know what happens. And I firmly believe that if he decides to hit that type of civilian infrastructure in Iran, that the only thing they will be able to do is escalate once more and really, really make the Gulf nations suffer. And now you got all kinds of crazy stuff going on, so who knows? But there was nothing in that speech. To me, it wasn't even worth it.

[B]

I agree that, like, it was performative because people said, you need to get out there.

[A]

Yeah. So, no, that's the Trump. You know what?

[B]

That's why it was only 20 minutes.

[A]

What?

[B]

It's only. That's why it was only 20 minutes.

[A]

We spent more time on it than he did.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

Know what I'm saying? We spend more time on it.

[B]

He's like, nothing more to say. Nothing more to say about.

[A]

Oh, oh, hold on. You know, there's a lot of stuff happening in. There's a lot of stuff happening.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

We talked about Chrissy Noem, but we didn't talk about the other thing happening with Kristy Noemi.

[B]

Oh, this is. This is a field day for you.

[A]

For me, yeah.

[C]

Let's talk about Brian. Her husband Christy, said that her family was blindsided and devastated following reports that her husband Brian allegedly lived a secret online life. This report was that Brian was involved in a bimbo vacation fetish community where he allegedly sent explicit messages and shared cross dressing photos and spent tens of thousands of dollars interacting with women who weren't his wife online.

[B]

Now, you know, my first question is, I, of course, had never heard of bimbofication.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Didn't know this was a fetish. Didn't know this was a thing. Didn't know there were levels to it. Right. It's not just about you dressing up. It's who you talk to. It's whether they do. It's. Do you act in character? Is it just the. Like, I. So of course, quite naturally we have to defer. I'm sorry, Van. We have to defer to the expert who is way more in touch, as you told us, as you educated us about come walking. Way more in touch with these fetishes. Just, you know, in the. Know how. I'm sure, just for research purposes, particularly when it comes to this one. But had you heard of this bimbofication?

[A]

Yeah, no, never heard of it before. But it. Essentially he's a cross dresser, which has existed since the beginning.

[B]

Well, there's levels to it, though.

[A]

Okay, tell me.

[B]

I guess like when I was looking at it, yes, he's a cross dresser. But, like, it might be that you don't do that part of bimbofication is that maybe you like that. Or it could be not a cross dresser. As a woman, you could wear like the. Because it's like kind of like a Jessica Rabbit thing, right? Like you could wear like a cartoonish big chest and. Yeah. Like you can put like overdo your makeup and wear like, think of almost even like. Oh, my gosh, Anna Nicole Smith. Like, like that kind of thing. It's. You might just be into watching it. You might dress that way as well. That's where the cross dressing comes in. But like, you don't have to be a man to do it. You could Be a woman. That does it. Like, there are levels to it.

[A]

Bimbofication. Okay, let's. Let's look this up. So bimbo.

[B]

No, not me educating you on a king.

[A]

I didn't know bimbofication is. To Rachel's point. What is bimbofication? This is on AOL. AOL.

[B]

It's still around, man.

[A]

For real? Yeah, AOL.

[B]

Mm.

[A]

God, man, I'm fucking with AOL, man. What do they do now?

[B]

Kind of like Yahoo.com, like, just like a news source of like, gathering stories from different publications, putting it all on them. That's good to see on a homepage. That's good to see. Took you back.

[A]

Yeah. So it's not cross dressing. It's a cross dressing fetish, basically, what you said. I mean, it's not too much more to it, but I'm looking at it right now. This is him and Kristi Noem back in the day. Damn, she looked different. So this particular fetish appears to be. It's essentially turning yourself into the most hyper feminine Barbie, like, version of yourself, regardless of gender. So, yeah, the women get into it too. For some, that means huge boobs, heavy makeup, or provocative clothing. And while women are typically the ones hypersexualizing themselves in content that's easy to find on popular sites like pornhub, men are now embracing the kink, often wearing fake breasts or temporary feminine enhancements to feel as ladylike as possible.

[B]

Like. Cause he had balloons in the picture that we saw. Those were balloons, right? That's why they were uneven.

[A]

Okay, so those are balloons. Because they were.

[B]

He had balloons.

[A]

He had balloons inside. So look, you know, I've heard a lot of conversation about this as people who are fetish friendly and let people explore their fetishes and let people, like, are encouraging if people explore in their fetishes.

[B]

I actually think people should. So, you know, you're not alone with your fetish or think there's something or your kink. I think people should be more open about their fetishes and kinks. Shocking. Maybe you think that I say that, but I think that they should.

[A]

No, no, no, no, no. I wouldn't think that. I'm just saying, like, I don't think that at all. I'm saying this. The response here is interesting and I guess is attacking this fetish for a lot of people in any way indulging into hypocrisy. Because a lot of these attacks are coming from people who normally would be fetish friendly. And all of that, to me, is

[B]

that what's so you're saying. Wait, wait, wait. So you're not. You're saying this isn't coming from, like, a conservative, traditional values crowd. You're saying it's coming from, like, just.

[A]

No, what I'm saying is there's two conversations. Number one, I know the reason why I always glom on to stuff like this because of the hypocrisy that's involved.

[B]

Of course. Of course.

[C]

Of course.

[A]

The Christine Ohm side of it. Somebody who stood in opposition so many things that would affect the lives and the advancement of the humanity, the recognition of the humanity of the gay, lesbian, trans community. So she's always been against that. So to see that this is happening. And she probably knew about it.

[B]

Allegedly, she did. Allegedly. She has said to out loud, allegedly to a reporter, my husband's gay.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And just because you do bimbofication does not necessarily mean you're a part of the community. I just wanna say that too. Like, I'm not trying to stereotype in any way.

[A]

The reason why these conversations are sometimes necessary to have is because it underscores there's a great documentary out there called Outrage that I watched years and years ago about prominent conservative political voices that are gay and they're closeted gay. And yet them being closeted for some reason makes them extra draconian.

[B]

Cause they hate. They can't be themselves.

[A]

Well, also, part of them being closeted is in how viciously they treat the gay community. Yeah. So part of their mask. It's one thing to be closeted or to have your. And there's nothing wrong with that in any way, shape or form. But if a component of you being closeted is treating a community cruelly to put distance between yourself and that community, then that phenomenon has to be discussed. Because that is your inability to kind of come to terms with who you are. You're weaponizing that against a group of people who are vulnerable.

[B]

Yeah. I mean, it even goes beyond just, you know, it being a hypocrite. A part like, as far as, like, what you believe about the queer community, it's also just like. I mean, I'll even use Kristi Noem here. I mean, she was questioned about it in front of Congress about her having an affair. That also contradicts this family values. And you could go down the laundry list, and I think we did before, about people who are so viciously against, you know, extramarital affairs or, you know, being a part of the queer community and all of these things, because it is so against what they believe. As a part of their religion. Yet behind closed doors, this is what they do. And I think it goes into the bigger issue of suppression. Like, you're suppressing desires that are natural to you. I grew up in a very religious community. I wrote about it in my book because I grew up in. Oh, my gosh, I was gonna call it virgin culture. That's not it. Why can I not think of the name purity culture? Purity culture. Purity culture, where there's a lot of shame around you, desiring things that are against what you've been taught biblically. And that's. You see people, you know, like, you know, get pregnant before they get married, which is what, you know, you're traditionally taught to do in purity culture. Or you see people, you know, like, have a wild side when they go off to college. Or you see people rebel because you've been suppressing certain desires that they. That feel natural to them. And you see it. I mean, even, you know, we talk about Taylor, Frankie, Paul and the Bachelorette, like, the soft swinging scandal of all of it. Why they get married so young so they can have sex, why they get married on a Friday so they can annul it on a Monday, why they do soft swing and all of that kind of stuff. Because you're suppressing what feels natural to them. And I think that's a deeper conversation that we should have as well. When you have these conversations, like, yes, there's the hypocrisy. Yes, there are these people who viciously attack these communities because they feel like they can't be themselves. Maybe there's a jealousy there, there's a hatred there because they can't do the things that they want to do that feel natural to them. So they do them in private, and then they come out in ways like this. But also it's the suppression of just, like, what you feel you should be doing as a woman, as a man, as, you know, whatever. And, like, I think that that's why we will always continue to see stories like this. Because people can't feel what they can't do what they desire, because they've been taught from a very young age, whether it's in their family, whether it's in their community, whether it's in their school, whether it's in their church, whether it's in their friend group, that that is wrong, you are evil, and you will die because of it.

[A]

Hmm. So I think I understand what you're saying. So let me give you an example, based upon what you just said, of kind of what I'm trying to say. Then I'll come back to the conversation around this fetish and just talk about the quality of his titties, which I also would like to talk about as well at some point. Just like the quality of the titty meat, because.

[B]

Titty meat.

[A]

Titty meat. Yeah, the quality of titty meat, the balloons. I want to talk about if he can do better because we have to discuss that. What? Okay, well, I mean, not better. Listen, here's the thing.

[B]

That's.

[A]

If he's. I don't wanna, look, I don't wanna stand in judgment of him because look, I deal with titty meat. Face it, you guys know, you guys have seen it before. You've seen me lean back and stuff. Like I deal with titty meat. I know what it's like to deal with titties. He's not alone, okay? Now he went out and got his titties, put balloons in. I didn't do it like that. My titties were built through Snickers bars, ice cream. Titties were built through hamburgers, cheese. I have cheese based titties. But I know what it's like still. So there's a part of me that looked at him and just saw what I am, which is a man trying to deal with his titties. But we'll come back to that.

[B]

Okay? We'll come back to that.

[A]

All right, we'll come back to that. Because I, you know, try to. And then he can do better. If I can do better, he can do better. All right, number one, so let's kind of. So there's. It's one thing to me to. Let me tell you what I'm talking about. So let's take your example of purity, culture, right?

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And you grew up in Dallas, you went to First Baptist. You know, not you.

[B]

My whole life.

[A]

Okay, Your whole life. First Baptist, First Baptist, Second Baptist, Third Baptist, with the Baptist, right? Let's say you get to college, right? You come to First Baptist and you go to Prairie View, like I'm going to, I'm going to Pray Review. You go to Prayer View, you've been repressed and all of that.

[B]

Yes, because people in First Baptist, they got pregnant, got kicked out of the school.

[A]

Kicked out of the school, whatever. So, but, but you, but now, you know, you, you have Prayer View and you just. Let that thing loose. You just, you throwing, slanging it all around, going crazy, right? That's one thing.

[B]

Okay?

[A]

That type of expression could be unhealthy for you. I don't get in the world of litigating what's sexually healthy for people. But it could be that the overreaction to your repression in some way could be unhealthy for you. You could then develop some behaviors, tendencies and habits that are unhealthy for you. That could happen. That's not necessarily what I'm talking about. What I'm talking about is the person that is repressed and makes their repression a vehicle to make things unhealthy for other people. Meaning you are sexually repressed. So either you abuse people in secret because of your sexual repression. You don't want anyone to know that you're doing the things that you are. So you control people, you abuse them, you create these gigantic secrets. You might get people pregnant and force them to have secret abortions that they might necessarily not want to have. Or like the hypocrisy goes from some hypocrisy that is central to you and something to where your repression and your inability to be who you want to be affects other people. And what I am saying, because there's a version of the person that goes to prayer view and then becomes a holy roller who stands in front of abortion clinics and yells at people. And all of this because what they really want to do is go have somebody smash that shit from the back as hard as possible, or smash some shit from the back as hard as possible. What they really want, they're now expressing themselves and the lack of the ability to be who they want to be by oppression to somebody else. I'm talking about that specifically as it relates to sometimes cultural figures on the conservative right because the way that they demonstrate that they are not who they know they are is by kicking somebody else's ass. So how could I be gay when I am the most anti gay congressman that exists? How could I be having people having secret abortions and stuff when I'm the most anti abortion? I'm actually the fucking guy who writes the legislation for the pro life stuff. How could I be someone that's spreading kids around and doing all of that stuff when you see me as being that? That to me takes what is oftentimes a personal issue, which is your sexual repression and your inability to be who you want to be, which everybody goes through to some degree. Everybody puts caps and limits on how free that they should be. I have that conversation all the time. Some people think I'm way too free about what gets me going about what I think sex should be. Everybody has that conversation. But what the reason why I try to be as Open about that is. Cause I never want my thing to influence what somebody else feels like is okay. Or I want everyone to know and to be as free and open as possible, because that is the healthy way to be. Now, it doesn't mean that you'll always be able to set appropriate limits on yourself, which you have to. You have to set appropriate limits on yourself to live the type of life that you want in almost anything. Right? And almost anything. But I think that what I'm specifically talking about in this situation, when I heard a lot of people saying we should not kink shame this man and we should not be out to out people that like, you know, when you hear jokes about the fact of how Grindr reacts when cpac, Grinder be going crazy at cpac, Grindr be going crazy at the rnc because there are a lot of closeted people there. Sometimes people. There are people that say those stories are in poor taste because it is assigning. It's a cultural criminalization to being gay. It's like, oh, you're gay. That's a bad thing. I don't think that's why people are doing it. People are doing it to call out the hypocrisy of people who use persecuting gay people as a method of closeting themselves. And that, to me, is the problem. When you look at this politically, when you look at who Kristi Noem is and everything that Christy Noem is doing, the hypocrisy actually leads to some kid somewhere committing suicide because they can't live in a society where it's. I don't even want to say okay to be gay. If you say it's okay to be gay, that's dumb. You're engaging in dumb. It's not okay to be gay. Being gay should be celebrated. Who you are, the free.

[B]

Who you are should be celebrated.

[A]

Who you are should be celebrated. It should be celebrated. It is a celebration that should happen with people who are loving and connected and embracing their identity. As long as that identity isn't hurtful to anyone else. That should be celebrated because that's what human freedom is. That's what being a humanist is. So I think that's the thing that people have a problem with. Although I do. I am interested in the argument about whether or not kink shaming people and being targetedly, like, calling them out for this. If that doesn't in some way lean in a little bit to some entrenched homophobia that exists in society. If that's just not another, oh, you gay this is gay. That is gay. I'm not saying I don't do that.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Because we don't know all that stuff like that.

[B]

I'm saying that, you know, Brian Noem has not made a statement. So we don't. Other than he did not deny or confirm talking to these models. Or maybe he did admit that. I'm not sure. But he did admit to taking part in bimification scene and posing as a woman with large breasts and having these explicit conversations with other women. But you're right in the sense that I think. This is why I say I think people should be more open about their fetishes and their kinks. Because even the word kink, I feel like, has just, like, such a negative connotation. I think that you would realize that there are more people out there who feel the same way. I also think that you might not even realize you like that thing until you hear about that. And I think there should be a normalization of the fact. And to your point, to not labeling something like, oh, this is a man who has balloons in his chest. Oh, he must be gay because he's wearing pink short pants and has breasts. Like, that is where the homophobia, to your point, creeps in. And I have a problem with that part of it, which is why I think we should have more of these conversations. We shouldn't suppress certain things like that, because I think that it educates people and makes them aware of the homophobia that they might be holding within and not even realize that they're doing it. I appreciated knowing about something different. I'd never heard of this.

[A]

Never heard of bimbolification. So you got bimification. You got to come walk at the same time. You got two. Yeah, yeah, you got two for one. There's more shit out there, by the way.

[B]

I'm aware.

[A]

I'm just saying there's more shit.

[B]

People are aware.

[A]

This is why I don't get it. People, everybody. People got. People got stuff. People have stuff.

[B]

Yes. I'm the one who's. I agree with that. But it doesn't mean that I have to like it. Right? Like, I like it. I don't. Am not gonna want to walk around with come on my face. That's not for me. Yeah, that's. I don't have to like it.

[A]

No, no, you don't have to. I mean, that's a different one. That's like, look. That's because, you know, you making. When you do that, you making other people look you at the come on their face. And all that stuff like that to come walk. Now you're making other people look at you and stuff like that. So that's one that you could, you know, maybe I don't want to be at the mall with my family and then see, you would come on your face. I could. That one is. Maybe you do the come walk around the house. How's that?

[B]

Yeah, I.

[A]

Maybe you do the come walk around the house. Maybe you have a come walkathon where all the come walkers get together and they rent like a big ass building. That's a lot, right? Like they rent like a big ass building. Or you do the come walk at Hedonism, where that's kind of thing.

[B]

You're telling them what to do. You're telling them what to do. You're telling them how to do it.

[A]

Maybe. Cause you. Cause you gotta have an ethical come walk. Oh, it's gotta be ethical.

[B]

You do.

[A]

Well, it's not. It can't be. Okay, see how this is made to. This isn't me trying to. I'm trying to bridge the gap. So what I'm saying is what if it wasn't come walking? What if it was dick walking, right? What if it was just. My fetish is walking around with my dick out.

[B]

Okay, well that's a crime, right?

[A]

So. But think about the connection, right? The connection is that maybe it's not okay to do this because you wanting to have your dick out and want people to see your dick. That's not great, right? It could be your fetish.

[B]

It's a crime.

[A]

It's a crime. I don't know if cum walk is a crime. It's probably not.

[B]

No, no, no, no. I don't think that that's a crime.

[A]

But at the same time it is something that is extremely crime.

[B]

I think if you took it and you put it on someone not. I think then that would be a crime.

[A]

I know, but it's gotta be something. I don't know if this one's okay. Okay. And so what I'm saying is there should be a way. What I'm saying is out just in public. You just don't wanna be in Disneyland and see a woman walking through fucking California.

[B]

You wouldn't know. Especially in California. You'd be like, well, Bernard, how is it.

[A]

How. Hold on. If like.

[B]

Like Bernard, I guess I'm not speaking of.

[A]

Y' all jump in if you got. If y' all saw a woman walking around full blast all over her face, you know, it's full blast. You would know that it was come. Would you not like Donnie.

[B]

Donnie's out. Donnie's out.

[C]

Yeah, I would assume. I would assume. You did mention being at the mall. If somebody's at the mall, you could think it could be Cinnabon or something. I'd be like, that's not what I. That's not what I think it is. But so it depends on where you at.

[B]

And I thought Donnie was gonna tap out of the conversation. Donnie gave a full visual

[C]

when you mentioned the mall. I was thinking, well, that's what you immediately thought. That can't become that Cinnabon.

[B]

First off, you'd have to be really close to somebody to see it. Second, that's not cool. In my mind. Can I just tell you the way I was thinking of it in my head until Donnie gave me that visual? No, no, I'm not Googling on the Spotify computer.

[A]

On the Spotify computer.

[B]

I didn't see it that way, Donnie. In my mind, I didn't think that you would just let it splat and just sit there. In my mind. I don't know why I thought, like, you would rub it on your face like a facial, like a cream. Like, that's how I saw it. Like you would even it out is how I saw it in my mind. That's what I was thinking.

[A]

No, that's not what they did. They let the. You.

[B]

I mean, yuck. Everybody. I don't want.

[A]

You know what a come walk is? Huh? Do you know what a. Like a. You know what it is? What is it? A come walk is basically when. I mean, I worked in Hollywood, so that's the only reason. But basically it's when someone like doing something in public, you know, they have sex in public and then. But they're just a one night stand type of dude. And then do you know. Yeah.

[C]

Finishes and then she just walks out.

[A]

Right. But it's on her face. Yeah, yeah. So that's the thing. This just happened. Is the thing. So that. This just happened. So these.

[B]

So it's really for the woman. The woman is. Because like, does the. Is it. Does the man get off on watching her walk in public with it or does the woman get off what. Like knowing that it's there.

[A]

It's a public.

[B]

But I'm saying which. Who benefits is my question.

[A]

Well, first of all. And we can move along because there's people that's, you know, this is wild.

[B]

Sorry. Now I'm curious.

[A]

What I'm saying is that really this is for content more than anything, but it.

[B]

Content for who it's like content.

[A]

It's like a content thing. It's like, people put this out of content. People like to watch it.

[B]

They do. They have their videos.

[A]

Videos come walk. Videos come walking.

[B]

I'm not. I'm not Googling it.

[A]

So, like, look. But what we're saying is be ethical when you're doing all of this stuff. Chrissy gnomes husband, if you need help dealing with your titties, just reach out. Okay, I'm working. I'm working at Equinox. I'm lifting. I'm going crazy. Okay. It's happening for me. I'm lifting. I'm going crazy. We in there, we're hitting the bench. And like.

[B]

Like, you know, you think he wants, like, actual titties? That's not the bimbofic. That's not the way I understand it. It's also not about them looking good. It's just about having big, cartoonish breasts on. That's why he didn't care if like.

[A]

But you want to take pride in your titties.

[B]

All right, well, I don't know. I don't know you. I don't know.

[A]

I say you should. I say you should. I say you should take pride in it.

[B]

Whether they're real or fake.

[A]

Yeah, come on, man. Like, if you go and do it, like, get out there. Cause now he's free.

[B]

I don't know.

[A]

This nigga might be the number one bimbo in the whole community.

[B]

I hope he's free. I don't know. Cause there's still people that they've interviewed in the community. They're like, that was AI.

[A]

Oh, he's not a true bimbo.

[B]

No. That don't wanna believe it. His community. There's a guy that they interviewed was like, I grew up playing football with him. See, this is where the homophobia comes in. I grew up playing football with him. I just believe that picture was AI.

[A]

Nah, he didn't.

[B]

So I don't know how free he is. But I do hope that, you know

[A]

your nigga got titties. And that's all right.

[B]

And that's okay.

[A]

That's all right. Just, you know, lay off my brothers and sisters in the community, okay? Lay off gay people. Lay off gay people and go, you know, Lay off gay people.

[B]

Yeah. Like, stop weaponizing stuff just to make yourself feel better. Cause that's what it is, really. They are so fearful that their secret is going to come out that they go overboard in trying to villainize queer people or fetishes or kinks or anything that they deem is sinful because they are so fearful of their own things Coming out this podcast is brought to you by Carvana. Selling your car should feel like one less thing on your list. Not one more. With Carvana it is just go to Carvana.com and to your license plate or VIN and get a real offer down to the penny. No back and forth, no surprises. Just an experience you can trust like your offer. Accept it, schedule pickup and we'll come to you with a check in hand. Your car, your timeline, your terms. Visit Carvana.com to sell your car today. Carvana pick up fees may apply.

[A]

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[B]

So they attack innocent people.

[A]

Yeah, I didn't see this Gucci Mane story, kid.

[C]

Yeah, this is broke.

[A]

Oh Lordy.

[B]

Kidnapped.

[A]

Donnie, give us a story. What's going on?

[B]

What do we know?

[A]

What is this?

[C]

Yeah, allegedly Gucci Mane was robbed and kidnapped by rappers pooh Shiesty and Big 30 in Dallas earlier this year.

[B]

This year.

[C]

Justice.

[A]

Yeah, I heard this.

[B]

So this was a secret. Doj.

[A]

What?

[C]

What did you hear?

[A]

Go on.

[C]

And we can play audio.

[A]

Promise.

[C]

Doj.

[A]

I'm not going to tell you guys where I got this information from, but this was a pretty poorly kept secret because I had heard from some people, man, this is some months ago that Poosheisty and some guys had run up on Gucci Mane over some business matter and this was in order to attack them in the whole deal. Like I heard like a couple of days after it happened.

[B]

So they let him go immediately. They robbed him. This happened a while back, right? Yes, January of the 7th, I believe

[C]

it's the alleged date.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So like he's out.

[A]

Like I had heard when this had happened and the way it was, there's a group text that I have with certain people that are plugged, right. And I had heard that this had happened and that this was over business or label business or whatever. But it had kind of like never broke. And there weren't even as many when I heard it, there weren't even as many Twitter conspiracy theories about it as I thought that there would have been because I went straight to Twitter to put it in Twitter to see if anybody was just talking about the fact that it happened and it hadn't. So for it to. I totally forgot about this.

[C]

I think it broke now because arrests were made. Who got arrested of the nine suspects were arrested, everybody but a man named Terrence Rogers. Let's play a little bit of audio from the press conference that happened earlier this morning. This week, nine individuals including well known musical artists kidnapped and robbed at gunpoint numerous victims at a music studio in Dallas, Texas. Texas. Eight of the nine were arrested yesterday in Dallas, Memphis and Nashville. These individuals who are charged and arrested include Lontrell Williams Jr. Also known as Pooh Shiesty, Lontrell Williams Sr. Rodney Wright Jr. Also known as Big 30, Kaderious Waters, Damarion Gibson, DeMarcus Glover, Corday Johnson, Darion McDaniel and Terrence Rogers, has not been arrested yet, but will be soon. The complaint alleges that on January 10th of this year, three music industry professionals traveled to Dallas for a scheduled business meeting. Lontrell Williams Jr. Arranged this meeting purportedly to discuss the terms of his recording contract with one of the victims as alleged. Once these three men were inside the recording studio, Williams Jr. And eight co conspirators, several of whom traveled from Memphis, Tennessee executed a coordinated armed takeover. As alleged. Williams Jr. Produced an AK style pistol and forced one of the victims to sign a release from the recording contract at gunpoint. The remaining conspirators displayed firearms and robbed the other victims of Rolex, watches, jewelry, cash and other high value items. One of the victims was actually choked by one of the defendants to the point of near unconsciousness. Defendant Wright barricaded the studio door with his body to prevent the victims from escaping. The ringleader of the conspiracy, Lontrell Williams Jr. Was on home confinement at the time of the offense as alleged for a prior firearms conspiracy charge in conviction out of the Southern District of Florida. Towards the end of his prison sentence, he had been granted home detention. Part of the terms of his home detention were that he would not commit another federal offense or possess a firearm. His father, Lontrell Williams Sr. Is alleged to have helped plan and execute the federal kidnapping as charged in the complaint and as described further in the complaint, within hours of leaving the Dallas studio, a number of the defendants were on social media displaying some of the items that appeared to be the jewelry that had been robbed from the victims.

[A]

Well, here at Higher Learning we always have say first of all that these are the government's allegations that are being made there's arrest being made that everyone here, everyone that was just named, is innocent. They're not technically innocent. They're innocent. So the government proves their case. They didn't do it. Now that that's out of the way. Yo, man, what the fuck, dog? Like, what the fuck is going on, man? So I guess my question, this one is Fert.

[B]

Pooh Shiesty's like, Ben, October 2025, 2022, like, several federal cases. I think we know what's the most important development out of this, which is this is in the northern district of Dallas. The most important thing is will my dad get the case?

[A]

Your dad might get this case.

[B]

That's the important. That's the most important thing.

[A]

The hip hop story.

[B]

Will he or will he not get this case?

[A]

What does that mean for us if he gets the case?

[B]

Well, one, we ain't talking about it anymore.

[A]

No, it's tough. Yeah. We can't.

[B]

But I will be. I will be reporting live from the court. I will be going to court.

[A]

So the lore on this was that, you know, Pooh Shiesty assigned to Gucci Mane, or was the lore on this was that either he wanted out of a contract or he wanted different terms of a contract, that there was a

[B]

money dispute of some sort, so he signed under Gucci.

[A]

Yeah. So hold on. Check everything that I'm saying, by the way. But the lore on this was that there was a contractual dispute between the two, and that this was the way that that dispute was going to be settled through this type of deal. The lawyers apparently were unavailable, and they went to run up on Gucci over some shit like this. I don't know if that's true. I don't know if there's something more to that. I don't know what the fuck is going on. What I do know is I just have so many questions. Number one, how. How in the fuck did they think they were going to get away with this? I have a question for people out there. My young brothers that's in the street still doing their thing. Do you want to get away? I'm serious. Cause growing up, growing up, I didn't know very many people who pulled a jug or did something, was involved in something, and then went to the police and went, hey, I killed somebody, or just like, look, do you know people that, like, took a chain and then flexed the chain? Yeah. Do you know people that would, like, that would run off at the mouth about shit that they had, did? Yeah. But there was a thought when I was growing up that Once guys did a crime that they wanted to get away with the crime, that the point of the crime was to get whatever resources that you got from the crime and then not go to jail.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

Is that still a thing?

[B]

Well, we've talked about drill rap on this podcast, right? We talked about the rappers that were on the golf course singing to Vanessa Carlton song and bragging about all the people that they had killed and what they had done. And it was a back and forth, and more people got killed after that. It was almost as if it was cool. It was bragging, making light of it. And I don't know if part of this is because that's what's trendy, which is outrageous. I don't know if it's because we live in a world where we are so desensitized to things that it's almost as if these rappers are acting like they're not living in reality. And whether it's murder, whether it's a charge, whether it's any kind of criminal thing, it's like it doesn't stick. I mean, I'm looking at Pooh Shiesty's legal issues right now. And going back six years, there's, you know, you've got a state charge, you've got a federal charge. He actually was sentenced to five years. He served three years. He just got released in October of 2020. And here we are again with another federal charge. It's almost as if it's just not real or this is what makes them relevant or cool. I don't understand. Or it's almost as if similar to social media, right? What do they say if you didn't take a picture, if you didn't post, it never happened. So it's almost as if, well, if I don't brag about it, if I don't show what I did, then this never happened. Like, they want you to know. I know, I know.

[A]

I'm just saying it's changed what happened. I don't know. I had nothing to do with it.

[B]

But think about back in the day, right? You went to a party, you had a great time. You didn't need to tell everybody about it, you didn't need to post it. All the business of who was there or talk about it. It was just the fact that you went, you were present, you enjoyed the whole thing. You got what you needed from it. That's how crime kind of was back in the day, you know, to make your point. Now, it's like you have to publicize it or else it doesn't count. Like, that's how it feels.

[A]

Well, okay, so look.

[B]

And I feel like Bernard's itching to

[A]

say something like, okay, so look. Obviously, guys were always flashy on the street with the stuff that they got from crime. Right? You know, you see somebody. I remember there was a nigga in the block. In the block. He lived in the block. He lived in the street. There was a nigga that from Guardier, and he just started having shit. At first it was shit. I mean, back then it was like. It was funny. My Baton Rouge experience. That's why it's so interesting watching stories of guys from D.C. or Harlem or, like, even LA and stuff like that. Like, I didn't know too many people that, like in Baton Rouge that had a fucking Lamborghini or like a Range Rover or something. When you came through with the fucking Forerunner, that was brand new. Nigga was like, oh, shit, he getting it. And then there was a couple of guys. I'm not gonna name their names. Shout out to them that really had it, that was going for it. But, like, you know, if you want to get. If you want to buy your mother something Tiffany in Baton Rouge, you couldn't even buy it in Baton Rouge. You had to go to New Orleans to get it. So it's a different understanding.

[B]

Is that still the case?

[A]

Yeah, you can't even. If you want to buy Louis in Baton Rouge, you gotta go to New Orleans. Yeah, like, they, like, there might be a couple places. You might. But, like, that stuff doesn't even, you know. Yeah, so not that kind of have those. There's no, like, Fendi store in the mall, Louisiana. I don't know. Maybe there is now. I don't know. There wasn't then, though. But so, like, getting it to us, you could tell when somebody was getting it, but it wasn't overwhelming. Like, nigga went to miss a gold man in the mall, and he had. He had some jewelry and. And stuff like that, but it wasn't like, oh, my God, this guy. But we knew. We knew. So there was a way that you told that you had what you had. There's a way that you told, like, go walking somebody's house. They got the big screen tv, they got all kinds. There's a way that you told that you had what you had. So I'm not saying that people were ever, like, not flashy with they shit and all of that. And you hear the stories about guys in New York, guys in D.C. guys in Miami, guys. Other places they got a car, a Different car every week. They got chains all over. So look, flamboyant, with the crimes that you commit, there was only a couple of guys that had the discipline not to do that. I get it. You're robbing, you're a celebrity. Pooh Shiesty, you're a celebrity. You're robbing a celebrity violently with all your people, right? And then you're flexing about it. People are going to talk. I don't know how much Gucci's gonna have to say, are the feds gonna be able to make this case or the fed's gonna be able to make this case without Gucci? And if you are Gucci, what do you do in this situation? Like, are the feds going to be able to make this case without Gucci? It seems like they.

[B]

Maybe not kidnapping, but robbery.

[A]

The robbery and all of that stuff. It seems like they got the robbery. Everybody in hip hop is going to be asking the question whether or not Gucci in any way, shape or form is going to cooperate with the investigating feds in this case where it looks like something might have happened to him. It don't seem like he is apt to do that. So we'll see how much evidence they have to.

[B]

Why do you say that? How do you know that? How do you know he's not apt to do that? How do you know he didn't already assist with the reason this arrest happened?

[A]

It's a good question, and this is the answer. The answer is because there's still a part of me that believes the fairy tales that these guys tell about themselves. There's still a part of me that believes it. There's still a part of me. I mean, there's lots of reasons to believe a lot of stuff that Gucci says. Like there's been time that he served. There's been people that he's actually killed, whatever. So there's a lot of reason to believe that. But part of me believes that there are still some of these guys that believe the stuff that they out that they putting out there. Like, I just let people know right now, if you rob me and the police go, hey, Van, did you get robbed? And be like, yeah, officer and six foot one, like 175 pounds, you know, he had only God could judge me on his neck. Could you please go get my computer back? So just don't do. I'm like, that's.

[B]

Is that what you didn't say?

[A]

That's not what happened.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

But like, it was some different shit. Like, I didn't even See the people, but they just went in the car. But like, it. What I'm saying is that, like, in this situation, Gucci almost can't be Gucci, as preposterous as this sounds, and cooperate with the feds in this case in any way, shape, or form.

[B]

Well, we'll see.

[A]

He almost can't be Gucci and do that. Or maybe he can be. Maybe, like. Maybe he should.

[B]

Like, I don't think he should if it happened.

[A]

I don't give a fuck about none of this. But, like, just. Man, is Pooh Shiesty addicted to prison. Like, I don't want to say that this happened just like this. This is. Everybody involved in this is innocent. It's built different if this, in fact happened. You just got fucking back. You just got back. You just got back. You can't go back inside.

[B]

You're putting logic to it. I mean, like I just said, would you make a whole song, like, giving a full detail on what you did and how you did it? Like, no, there's just different. Like, this generation is just different. It feels like in how they handle it and how they do it. It's almost like for clout. Like, they want everybody to know it's. And if he was sentenced for so many years and only stayed some of the time, maybe he feels like it's worth it. It's like even. Even jail isn't real to him. Prison, I should say, because it was federal.

[A]

Pooh shyc was released October 6, 2025. Bro. Fuck, bro. So many boats. Know he was on home confinement, but there's so much shit to do.

[B]

Also, there's, like, nine people involved. He might not even be the one who take, like, somebody might take, like, take the whole thing. You just don't know. We don't know, right?

[A]

He might not even. This might have been done on his behalf or. Or something like that. I just can't imagine in any way wanting to be a part of this. I also don't know the backstory in terms of what the reason is, even. What the reason is even rumored to be about this. What I had heard before was. I mean, I could read what I heard, but I'm not gonna do that. What I had heard before was this was about signing some kind of contract or making somebody sign something or, like, really some, like, Suge Knight, Death Row Records read from the Five Heartbeats type shit. That's what I had heard back then. I don't know if that's what the fuck happened or whatever, but it seems like there's robbery, involved in all kinds of shit, so whatever. All right, let's talk about some sports.

[C]

NBA Jay Nivey, who was traded from the Pistons to the Bulls at the trade deadline just a few months ago, was waived by Chicago for conduct detrimental to the team. This is following a series of Instagram live videos that he posted. Let's hear a little bit of Jaden. What led to his being waived?

[A]

The world can proclaim lgbtq, Right? They have. They have. They proclaim Pride Month and the NBA. They proclaim it. They. They show it to the world. They say, come, come, come join us for Pride. For Pride Month to celebrate unrighteousness. They proclaim it. They proclaim it on the billboards. They proclaim it in the streets. Unrighteousness. So how is it that. That one can't speak Righteousness. How is it one. That. How.

[B]

How.

[A]

How are they to say that? You. You. Man, this man is crazy. Okay, so apparently it's been going on for a long time. He was evangelizing to reporters, asking them if they were saved, if they fornicate. He was doing it with his teammates. He seems to have some support from within his organization, but overall, it seems like people in the organization had had enough of Jade and Ivy. There also is talk that some of this is due to maybe some mental things he might be going through, that there could be some mental illness there that he's dealing with. Suffers from deals with depression and some other things. But it's kind of sparked a conversation about whether or not he should be able to espouse his religious beliefs and not be kicked off his basketball team.

[B]

I mean, you know, I understand, like, the free speech and, you know, I don't think that anybody's coming onto him because he's, you know, believes a certain religion or he practices a certain way. It's really the fact that it seems to be hindering and affecting, you know, I guess, camaraderie within the locker room or even how, like, they're able to function. It seems like it's becoming a hindrance at this point. So it seems like, I guess they're well within their right to do it. What was the term they used? Conduct detrimental to the team. And so I guess, like, they seem to be within their right to let him go because of that. I didn't look at it more of that. I looked at it more as, like, you know, it's being reported that he's gonna get his. Whatever he was supposed to make in the last year of his contract. He's gonna get to him. But all I kept thinking was, I don't know. You say this has been going on for a while. He's been. He hasn't played with Chicago, what, since February? Cause he had another injury. He's only been there for four games. He was with Detroit. Yeah, before. He was with Detroit before. And it seemed like his career was on an upward trajectory. He gets hurt, he gets hurt again. And, you know, he hasn't been the same since. And yes, it looks like, oh, he's gonna get paid out of the, you know, the rest of his rookie contract and get money. But, like, my concern was, all right, this seems like a guy who needs help. That's all I kept thinking. It seems like this behavior seems to be abnormal. It seems to be. Have been happening, but it seems to be more recently happening. And I guess I kept thinking, I know that there's a lot of data about young men when they're in their mid-20s and mental health issues, they get an onset of new mental health issues. And that's what I kept thinking about with him. And although he's getting his money, I kept thinking, so now what? Who is going to help this young man? Because it seems like this is a cry for help. It seems like he needs assistance in some kind of way rather than just to be thrown off the team. And here's the rest of your money. Like, what is the aftercare like? Like, when do we start looking at him as not just an asset on a team and looking at him as a person who maybe needs help? That's how I looked at this entire situation. The other side of it is maybe if he was a bigger player and more of an impact player, maybe somebody they had spent more money on, maybe they would be helping him off the court and would not have let go of him as a team because he was such an asset.

[A]

Hmm. I mean, you know, the way sports work is, your game gets you a longer leash to be a nuisance. Just the way that it works to be a nuisance on and off the court. I mean, there are guys in the NBA that have domestic violence cases. So that's certainly. What you just said is certainly true. You know. You know what this makes me think of? First of all, I'm gonna hold space for the fact that Jay N. Ivey could be going through something. Have to hold space for that.

[B]

It seems like it.

[A]

I have to hold space for that. But you know what? This kind of makes me think of. This makes me think about the Tourette situation at the baftas, because the question becomes. I think it's a question we're all trying to ask as we live in society together. The question becomes, if it was in fact true that J. Nivey was going through something with the three questions, if Jade Nivey is going through something, does that mean how much patience, how much grace do we give someone that's going through something if they spout rhetoric that is hateful? How much space do you give someone that's going through something if the rhetoric that they're spouting is hateful? If it's not just hateful, but it's harmful, it's something that is used to empower narratives that makes people's lives smaller. Like, how do you deal with that? We've had that conversation surrounding the BAFTA awards when we all had to be triggered as we watch Michael B. Jordan and Delroy and Lindo watch a racial. Ethnic slur. Racials are the N word. I don't know why I'm talking. Like, I'm on a Walmart panel. Them called niggers. You know, during the stage, like, during the show, like, on the stage, like, we watching these two beautiful men up here celebrating the award is achievement. And the. It's like, okay, it almost seems like, what the. What do you want me to do? What do you want me to do? You want me to be like, oh, my God, Like, I understand. It's like, goes in, like, what do you want me to say? I'm a human being person. And so it's like, what, in this situation right here? Yeah, sure. Like, he's going through something. It seems like he's going through something. It also seems like he has a very distinct set of beliefs that have been with him for a long time. This is what Jay and Ivy believes. This is. You know, there's more stuff. He said Catholicism is false religion. He said, whatever it says like that.

[B]

Mm.

[A]

Your belief system is not a shield. Right. It's not a shield.

[B]

Right. It doesn't excuse it.

[A]

Yeah. It's. How can I say this? Do. I would. If I was in here right now and someone came up to me and they said, you know, forget about Pride Month for us for a second. If someone said, you know, I think on General, the IQs of black people are lower than they are of other groups around. Like, I think that. I think that there's scientific evidence to prove that. Like, I think that I can prove that and have that conversation, would I rage at that person? No. If I was curious enough in the moment, I might actually even have that conversation. Right. I wouldn't want to work with them. And me not wanting to work with them because they think I am inherently stupid. You can say whatever you want about that. Just wouldn't want to work with them. So a lot of times we talk about free speech, and we don't make. To me, free speech is free speech, and that's very important. But there's also, to me,

[B]

moral.

[A]

There's moral consideration even inside of free speech. And that's where things get really dicey. You should be able to say whatever you want to say. But I think what's more meaningful to me is what's being said and why the speech is controversial. Like if. If kneeling before the national anthem, if that's controversial, I want to have a conversation. Why? Why is refusing to show deference to the flag of a country that is enslaved, imprisoned, raped, and tortured people who look like you, why is that so controversial? The actual conversation isn't about free speech. It's about why protest in that situation is actually harming someone. What are you holding onto? What conversation am I trying to have? If your speech denigrates one group, if your speech puts one group in the crosshairs, there are people that are going to go, I don't want to be around you.

[B]

And they should.

[A]

Right. And by the way, that goes for everyone. Right. Sometimes when we have conversations, we might say white people, we might say white this, we might say white that. If there are white people out there that go. Van has a little bit too much of an edge for him in the way he talks about whiteness, the way he sometimes. I fully accept that.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, I have no. I'm willing to have a conversation about why it is I believe what I believe, how I believe systems of white supremacy in influence, not only the society we live in, but the entire world. Right. I'm willing to have that. And if that's too much for you, peace. No problem with that. If that's too much, no problem with it. Whether I think it's fair or unfair. So with this situation with him, I do think that there need to be people that rally around him and try to make sure that there's nothing else influencing the things that he said. But at the same time, we also just listened to Kanye west for three or four years, where a Nazi insignia, swastika around his neck, come out and kick a K robe and do all of this stuff. Right. And if people decide they don't want to be around that, then it's fine. If people decide, after he says, I'm Sorry, I was going through something. And if people go, hey, we understand that, and they have no problem going out, that's fine too. I don't make any moral judgments about anyone that will stream the music or the fact that he sold out. Fucking, so far it seems like things are going okay for him. Right? No problem with that. But anyone that goes, that's too much cool. And in this situation right here, the league or the team that doesn't feel like they want to be in the middle of a firestorm of controversy because Jaden Ivy doesn't think that the lifestyles of gay people. Excuse me, the lives of gay people, not lifestyle. The life of gay people and the safety of gay people, that. That should be celebrated. That's on him.

[B]

Yeah, no, it's. It's totally on him. I didn't even really pay attention to the free speech argument of it all because. And also with it, too, obviously, the NBA is involved in Pride Month, and they have been. And what I love about that is not just celebrating a community of people and making them feel welcome into your sport, but traditionally, when it comes to, you know. Well, I mean, basketball is women too, but, like, when it comes to, like, football or basketball, you see men who are afraid to live their true life or have come out after they've retired or. Or just stopped playing in general or get injured, whatever it may be, they don't feel like they can live their lifestyles. And so what I love when I see a league take part in this is it is okay for you to be you. You know, it's why it's called pride. You should take pride in who you are. And when you have someone who you know, who knows, like, it's reporters, it's staff, it's teammates, you have no idea if what you're saying directly makes them feel scared or endangered because of the things that you're saying, because you're saying these things out in public, which also might incite people to be harmful to the queer community. So, I mean, like, the whole free speech thing, whatever. I really don't think that that's even an issue. I totally agree that what the things that he's saying have been detrimental to the conduct and actions have been detrimental to the team and to the players and to the fans and to the public. And. Yeah, like, I think that. I think he needs help. I really do. I think there's. There's something going on here. But I agree with letting him go for the team. Like, I don't know how he could stay.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, look it. Look, man, Jay N ivey is about to go on a run. Jay Navy about to be at cpac. He about to do the whole thing. He gonna get a soft bed to land on the whole nine. There are some dynamics that's happening with him and his wife inside of his family. Maybe there's something more to the fact that he is kind of in a. In a. In some sort of spiral. That's cool. But the reality. Just remember, you guys, if your religion, your mantra, your whatever, if it's aimed at one group of people, especially if that group of people is a persecuted group of people, a group of people that are struggling to access their safety in this country, and you, like, fuck them, whatever. If I was Catholic, I wouldn't want to be fucking on the team with him. You know what I mean? It's like Catholic come out. Like, think about it. Like, the whole deal. I get it. It's a part of it. So I don't really have a problem with them deciding that he can't play for the Bulls right now. And I also don't think that's just about this. I think that this is probably the straw that broke the proverbial camel's back. But if you listen to what people are saying around the league and what the team is saying, this had been going on for a while. We're going to end with Deontay Wilder. Before we get to Deontay Wilder. Come walking. Coming back. Deontay Wilder. God. Brandi. Jesus, Donnie. Yeah.

[C]

She's got a new memoir called Phases. And in said memoir, she talks about her past relationship with Boyz II Men's Wanya Morris. She says that the relationship in the 90s began when she was 16 and he was in his early 20s and was kept secret to avoid scandal. She describes their relationship as emotionally damaging, incites manipulation, insecurity and a power imbalance. She also reveals that she lost her virginity to Morris and later discovered that he was cheating, which ended the relationship. And we do have some sound from an interview in 2014 with the Breakfast Club where he talks about his relationship with Brandi.

[B]

And you had a celebrity relationship. Were you the only one that was ever involved with a celebrity?

[A]

Who was he dating? Wanye was banging Brandi. Brandi.

[B]

He left a lowly, broken hearted.

[A]

No, I didn't actually leave a lonely. He was teaching reggae how to do videos. That's why they called you squirt.

[B]

That's what I was thinking. I mean, Brandi even said to her behind the music that you broke her heart. Cause you fell in love with somebody else.

[A]

I mean, you only fall in love with somebody. You only fall out of love with somebody else if somebody makes you fall out of love, you know? So if that was the situation, if that was. If that's what she said, then that's political. I like that. I can't. You know, I can't contest to her view about it. I can just only live by my view. Revolt. Revolt. They were saying she was really young when y' all dated. Yeah, she was not. Not that young. Not. Not. Jail, baby. That's why. That's why I said. That's why I stopped it.

[B]

Hold on.

[A]

But that's why I stopped it and said that she. She wasn't that young. Because I don't want y' all to think Boys to Men was young. We. No, I was young, too.

[B]

She said she was 15, and she had to keep it a secret.

[A]

Nah, nah. See, See, we. We. We did the thing. We did the thing when she was, like, 16, 17. Around that time, you know, you. So you were still a boy, too. You had. I was. I wasn't too. I wasn't old. I wasn't like, 38 years old. Nothing like that. I was old enough to. To. She was old enough to get it. Okay, but was it legal in the state y' all was in? I mean, we was always in different states. They had a nomad relationship. You know what I'm saying? We just, you know, we didn't do it in the states that it was legal. It was illegal in. Nice.

[B]

Oh, my gosh.

[A]

Political. No, no, no.

[C]

It was.

[A]

You know what I mean? It was. It was a time. It was a relationship. It grew, and it ungrew. I guess you could say ungrew. Squirted and unsquirted. I like that. You know, I remember this. You remember when they dated, I did the brokenhearted video. They were playing with a puppy together in the video. It's a fact. Lonely. Brokenhearted. I remember, like, Brandi and Wanye were dating. They were playing with a puppy in the video together. So Brandy's like a. A year older than me. Wanye and Boyz II Men were around. We didn't really know how old they were. Like, I wouldn't have known how old Wanye Morris was in, like, 95 or 94, whatever this was. I wouldn't have known how old he was. It didn't. At that point, it didn't seem like that big of a deal.

[B]

Of course it did. They didn't want you to.

[A]

Yeah, because I didn't know how old. For all I knew, Boyz II men was like 19. Like when it came out, they was in like school, like, apparel and shit like that. So I didn't really know how old he was. But, like, now. Nobody made a big deal about it then. That's just a fact. Nobody made a big deal about it then. Now it's clearly fucked.

[B]

Mm. Mm. When was that? That clip was what, 2014.

[A]

2014.

[B]

So before me too. First off, I'd like to say this is another point for Drew Hill and the whole thing. That's another point. That video is disturbing too, because. And I asked specifically, was this before Me too, because we know that that's when obviously people had spoken out about inappropriate relationships before, but that was the turning point where it was. Everyone was saying no. People were challenging it, coming out with their stories. Like, you couldn't just dismiss it, as we just saw Wanye do in that clip. And what's disturbing is that's a room full of people laughing when he outright admits she was 16. That's a minor. Then he goes, she could get it. And he laughs. And then fast forward to where we are now and you hear Brandi talking about how damaging that was to her, how that was her first relationship. I mean, like, that is what was her introduction to sex, to intimacy, to what she felt was love at that time. And she fell for this person who she says, I mean, he came. He. Basically her description is he grew. He groomed her, he preyed on her youth, her innocence, her being naive in the industry, her admiration for him for what he had already built with Boys to Men. And he pursued her. He basically conquered her. And when he was done with her, she was disposable and he moved on. And the way he's even talking in that clip is exactly. Kind of verifies exactly what she's saying. She was old enough to get it and it grew to something and then it was done and it was on to the next for him. Not realizing that, okay, you might looked at yourself as a few years older than her, but there's a lot of. There's a lot of experience between that as you had been.

[A]

There's no way to. Yeah.

[B]

And he had been in the industry. Like, you're not just a 22 year old, like, who grew up in some sheltered life. Like, you are a star. She is on your tour as an opening act when all of this was happening. So, like, it just shows the sign of the times and, you know, it just speaks to things that we've talked about before, as you saw, like, that was a trend back then. You know, back then, for whatever reason, whether it was, you know, you had a lot of teen stars that were coming up and maybe parents who weren't as aware of the industry. And so you had the older mentor who was taking them under their wing, but at the same time, in some of these cases, grooming them and taking advantage of the fact of how naive they were. And then it was a time where these type of relationships were accepted. They weren't challenged, they were downplayed. Like even you said as you're watching the video, I remember watching the video, like, I'm not thinking, well, how old is he? How old is she? That was also part of the system that existed. And even if someone did probably think it was wrong, they probably feared losing their job or their reputation being tarnished because they did challenge something that they knew was inappropriate. And then I think it's. We moved through time. And then you had sites like gossip sites and TMZ who would, you know, talk about it, but they still didn't necessarily challenge it. Like, they still didn't necessarily say, I didn't still get the critique that you saw develop later in the MeToo times. It was more like salacious or if it was something like a big deal, or maybe there was like something criminal attached to it, it grew to something and pointing out how inappropriate it was. But it really wasn't until the MeToo movement that you said, okay, I'm gonna challenge this. And then you had people having documentaries, lawsuits, telling their stories, writing memoirs to where it's like, all right, this was exploitation. This was actually an issue and we need to talk about it and not dismiss it and excuse it. And that is why in 2014 you have Wanye laughing about it on a very public platform. And in 2026, he's fucking silent.

[A]

Yeah, so well said. So, like, the reason why this story is so interesting to me is because of what you just said. The conversation here about the way the women involved. The girls. Girls, yeah, the girls involved in this situation felt is important to societally setting the boundary. It is because there was something commonplace about this then that's difficult for people that are young now to understand. There was something commonplace about. About dudes rolling up in cars and picking girls up from high school.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

There was something commonplace about celebrities dating women much younger than them. Jerry Seinfeld was 40 years old. He had a 17 year old girlfriend. A 17 year old girlfriend and whatever to bring him into Whatever.

[B]

Walking on red carpets, going to events,

[A]

a 17 year old girlfriend, right? And look, it's like, that was legal where they were, right? That was legal where they were. So there are gonna be a lot of people, but like, the fucking appropriateness of that, the power dynamic, the imbalances, to hear how the young women felt in those situations, that is the type of stuff the girls have to feel. How the girls felt. The girls felt in those situations. That's why we need to do it, because we need to be able to set a standard that is enduring when it comes to this. A standard that can be reapplied, that we can all agree on. Like, I'm not even gonna try to act like that I ever heard any alarm bells raised during that time over this relationship. Cause I would be lying. There just weren't now. There were alarm bells raised over R.

[B]

Kelly and Aaliyah after they got married.

[A]

So there were situations, like I heard people say it, right? Because there was a discussion, Aaliyah vs Brandi, about the innocence that Brandi exuded and the more grown up nature of. Of at least Aaliyah's aesthetic at that time. Because Brandi was. I want to be down, sitting up in my room, brokenhearted. Aaliyah was back, back. She had the shades on, the whole nine.

[B]

And the midriff.

[A]

The midriff and all of that stuff. So there were even conversations then that juxtaposed them as far as, this is your innocent. This is kind of your back. Whatever, whatever all of that stuff was. But the R. Kelly thing, he was such an influence on her. I remember there was a report and it was just like on BET news. BET news used to flash in. This happened. BET news used to flash in and it would be somebody talking over video that was playing and it would be like, hey, it's rumored that R. Kelly and Aaliyah got married at this particular time, at this point, blah, blah, blah, that happened. And R. Kelly and Aaliyah, back and forth, the video is playing and somebody's saying that in the background. And I remember I went, yo, how fucking. How fucking old is she? Like, whenever I was like, how old is. How old is Aaliyah? And like, people go back and they act like the R. Kelly, Aaliyah marriage was something that was a rumor. That it was a rumor.

[B]

Yeah, they do.

[A]

They act like that. That was. No, it wasn't something that was a rumor. It was something that was like reported on. It was something that, like got out. And people were like, wait, wait, wait a fucking minute. Like how, how old, how old is she? Like what, like what's going on here? But then there was just other things that existed in celebrity culture. There was like the Jerry Lee Lewis biopic came out.

[B]

Oh yeah, Big Balls of Fire. Yeah, I saw it.

[A]

And Winona Ryder played Jerry Lee Lewis Cousin, 13 year old cousin that he was in a full on relationship with and had married. And. And then in that movie, I'll never forget it, they painted this relationship, which was loving, as the reason why Jerry Lee Lewis career fell off. And when they showed the girls that were like making fun of Jerry Lee Lewis and they were doing like this, you almost felt like they were the enemy against this. Like, Great Balls of Fire is a complicated movie about like all of that. It doesn't really portray Jerry Lee Lewis as like this great.

[B]

No, he's like an abuser. He's an abuser.

[A]

He's all of that stuff. But still though, that part of it was almost harkened back to a time where that was regular. So I think a lot of these things have to be discussed in order for us to understand. Not that they were inappropriate, but they were profoundly wrong. And this seems stupid to have this conversation now, but I'm trying to have it and also hold space for the fact that we did not have it then. I was in the fucking ninth grade, but we did not have it then. I did not see that conversation with the exception of R. Kelly and Aaliyah. I did not see that conversation being had then. I did not see anyone like said, and I hear girls now. Last thing I'll say, I hear girls now once again, around town, you know people. And I knew a girl back in the day and she was telling me about somebody that was famous at the time that would come pick her up from high school when she was in high school. It's like, oh, how do you know him? He's in this group or whatever, whatever older group from the 80s. Like, oh yeah, he would come pick me up from school. And that shit used to happen when I was in high school. Like in 80s movies, you would see the hot girl at the school, like she's a junior or whatever. Her boyfriend was in college, like, or older. Kelly from Saved by the Bell.

[B]

Oh, you're so right.

[A]

Broke up with Zack Morris and they were in high school. In Saved by the Bell, Kelly started

[B]

dating a guy, the manager.

[A]

The manager that was way older and that was Zach's nemesis. And then when they found out, it was just something that like almost was a part of culture that hadn't been quite discussed. This is in no way trying to contextualize this situation or make it.

[B]

No, it's the speaking to the culture. It became normalized, it became almost seemed cool for the women. It was like, you chose me. It almost was glorified because of being so naive to the situation. I mean, the list goes on and on. Elvis and Priscilla, you know what I mean? Russell Simmons and Kahmora. Karl Malone fathered a child with a 13 year old. And like we just kept it moving. It was. It's not. I know you're not. We're not talking about just like, oh, this is what was back in the day. It's just pointing out how problematic this culture was and for various reasons, for how women were viewed, you know, for misogyny, for like that, like, if I'm being honest, like my grandparents, like, there's a huge, like one was adult, one was a teenager. Like it was almost just like, that's just the way it is. That's just what happens. And parents approved it, friends approved it. And I'm not even talking about famous people. It was just almost like, oh, like you talk about Jerry Lee Lewis. It was his cousin, he asked for permission. Her parents said yes.

[A]

Is there something to be said when we're having this conversation that's incredibly uncomfortable? Is there something to be said about. About in any way holding space for the fact that society has moved? And let me tell you why, Let me tell you why I say that. The reason why I say that is because we get more information and we try to change things, right? Like there was a time when it wasn't just okay, but it was necessary to send some kid to work at 11 years old. You can make the argument that it was necessary, right? You can make the argument that in past societies, if the society was like highly agrarian or de. Industrialized, that the moment that you could do something that you needed to pitch in because you were going to be a resource drain on a family. You're just gonna be eating milk and cheese and wheat and all of that stuff. And if you can't get out and help, then they're not producing more. And then thanks to a lot of labor unions and stuff like that, kids go to work in factories. And we go, you know what? We should not have children working in factories. They are like specifically vulnerable to certain types of things. Their brains are still developing. We should take kids out of those then. That is a deal. And so what you're talking about specifically with your grandparents, this is just me saying that that was commonplace because no one thought it was wrong.

[B]

Well, I'll go back. If you talk about child labor and how things change if you go back, it's how women have been viewed historically in society. Women did not have rights. Women were supposed to be taken care of. They were chosen. I'm not gonna say it was an arranged marriage, but, yeah, part of the getting together, it wasn't passion and love and. And in the way that we do it now, and you hop to relationship until you find that kind of person in chemistry. It was about survival. It was about a partnership. It was about building something together. And the women weren't looked at. It wasn't even necessarily, and I'm not excusing it, an age thing. It was. I'm gonna pick, choose this woman. I'm not looking at the disparity in our age. She's gonna be a provider, she's gonna have children. I'm gonna take care of her. Because she can't vote. She does. She can't own a bank account. She can't get a certain job. She can't provide in that way. That's my job as a man. And obviously that has changed as we move to 2026. But gradually that was the case. It was like the woman was there to do so, to take care of the household, to create a family, to build that so the man could go out and do whatever without age necessarily being a consideration. Because the power imbalance was a part of the relationship that was intentional. The woman wasn't looked at as your equal. You were supposed to be. Have an advantage in the relationship. And I. And like some of that still carried on even up into the 90s, into the 2000s, because it was so deeply embedded about gender roles and how women's place in a society versus men.

[A]

And once again, this is the reason why these accounts are important, is because no one is asking women, particularly young women, girls, what they want and how they see their lives. They're a commodity. And so in being a commodity, they exist in the purpose that a commodity exists for. To be valuable to someone else in the way that that person sees says that the commodity is valuable. The price goes up and down, not by humanity, but by market force. And for a long time, women were treated like that. And they were treated like that in terms of marriage. And they're treated like they're still treated like that, treated like that in terms of marriage, treated like that in terms of all kinds of things. And as a man, sometimes you dehumanize women just through socialization. Like I've told this story before but my father looks at me one time and he goes I love my father guys. The guy passed away. I don't know if you guys know but my father died some years ago. But my father looks at me, he goes oh you, you're virgin. I'm like yeah. He's like you're about to be 16. I'm like yeah. He's like, you know, well you know you're lathan man. You shouldn't be virgin at 16. Like Latham man, we're, we're good looking. We're whatever, whatever. Not many of us get to and had no pussy yet roundabout way that that went like as soon as he had that conversation with me that changed my view of women because women were no longer people that like existed to do whatever they wanted to do and were friends and we do group projects and hang out. Like I wanted to have sex with women. Don't get me wrong. I remember I saw a bra strap. You've told us 92 changed my life. You've told us this is actual titties under there. Like girls got titties for real. It's not just exist on tv the titties on bus with you change me. But what women then became, at least for a little while, try to unlearn things is a way for me to access my manhood. They became a rite of passage, not like a people. But they became tools for me to live up to the standard of my father and my uncles and my cousins and everybody else. And so I looked. Now it's about that. That like was existential to me. Like it like went away but like now that's the thing. And when we have conversations with this like Brandi, it takes the image of Brandi from that video where they're playing with the dog and the video or whatever and it gives that person a voice other than a singing voice. Like you're talking about it now. You hear the way she looked at it. And you're not going to be able to get out of this situation without hearing from Wandi. If Wanye or anyone thinks this is a. As much as it can be, this is an earth shattering bombastic revelation. It is, it is even for people to know the exact ages here because I promise you the Internet wasn't around so it was just thought boys to men are young, Brandi is young. That's okay. Like the Internet wasn't around where I could just go in here and go exactly how old is this person at every Single time. Like, in that situation, you knew R. Kelly was old as fuck, but like the Internet just wasn't around in that regard. So now that you're hearing from her, you're hearing not only is this age gap existing, which is completely inappropriate, but more so you're hearing that the age gap was exploited. That what she believes that the age gap also equated an experience gap. Not just a life experience gap, but an industry experience gap. And she's claiming that that was exploited. That is classic. And he gonna have to say something. He's just going to have to say something. Cause her. I haven't read the memoir, but her tour on this is just beginning.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

All right. Donna can.

[B]

I'm happy Brandi is telling her story and, like, controlling the narrative. Like, I'm happy that she feels empowered or comfortable enough to do it because again, that wasn't always the case. And, you know, we're having this conversation, but not everybody. I've seen it online already. Everybody. Not everybody sees it that way.

[A]

Sees it what that way?

[B]

The way we're talking about it, about her being taken advantage of. I've seen. I don't even want to get into it, but like, I've just seen. Not everybody have the same viewpoint that we do, which is outrageous. But I'm just saying I'm proud of Brandi because you know you're gonna get blowback regardless from it. Whenever somebody tells their story about somebody who is revered and it causes you to look at them in a negative way or it portrays them in a light completely opposite from how you've always seen them. Cause Boyzman definitely always was presented as like the good ones, the good positive guys. Yeah. There will always be people who still try to defend that. And so despite that, Brandi is still telling her story. So I'm saying good for Brandi.

[A]

Well, this is what I know about this. I know two things. Number one, I know that dudes as seniors in college should not be fucking with sophomores in high school. Yeah. All right. Like 22 and 16, that's a no go. Right. It's a six year age gap. But at that particular point in the six year age gap, that's a no go.

[B]

Also because of who he was. A lot of experience there.

[A]

But as far as everything else, I'm saying that this is what Brandi is saying. Hearing what he is saying about this would be very important. Well, we know I wasn't there, so I don't know.

[B]

He said it. We heard him.

[A]

He said she was old Enough to get it. He didn't say that he groomed her

[B]

and all, and he probably won't say that, but he admitted to her being underage and said, oh, she can get it. And he laughed about it.

[A]

Right. I get what. I get what you're saying. What I'm saying is like, the inappropriateness of this is set in stone. There's no way around it. That is what happened was wrong. Easy to see that that's wrong. Easy to see that that's wrong. But she's going deeper. She's actually talking about a part of this that no one has ever talked about. That it wasn't just the age gap that was wrong. That the age gap led to him being able to manipulate her and take advantage of her in ways that he might not have been able to do with an older woman, which is the belief. And the reason why guys go for younger girls like that is because a lot of times the women that are their age, they can't do that, too.

[B]

We cover Trick Daddy when he said it. Yes. They're easily manipulated.

[A]

They can't do that, too. So she's talking about that. And that adds a dimension to this story that no one had ever heard before because Brandi hadn't spoken about it yet. So he is going to have to, in some way, shape or form, at some point, address what she is saying has to. All right, play this sound from Deontay Wilder before we get out here. I want you to hear. Have you heard this, Rachel?

[B]

Sadly, yes.

[A]

You heard it? Play this. Her mother tried to set me up, you know, to have the baby. You know, she ejected my sperm and her. And ran in the bathroom and locked the door, and that's how we had her. Really? Yeah. You know, truth be told, she don't even know I know this. Wow. But I'm telling it on to the world. How do you know that? I'm smart. You know, when we was having sex, you know, I used to. When I came, I used to come on her stomach. You know, I used to fold my towel nicely by the bed because I would want to wipe it off of her stomach. This particular time, she chose that she wanted to have a baby by me because I was the best thing that ever came into her life. Most of her relationships only last for two months or whatever because she. She was a promiscuous woman. I didn't know it at the time. I only found out this thing by reading her journal. She didn't know I read her journal either, you know, so during that time, I did what I do. I had a good nut, and I nutted on her stomach this time. I went and got the towel and tried to wipe it off. She hit my hand so hard, I thought she hit my hand like a home run, like a baseball player do a baseball bat. So what? Deontay Wilder. Clinton, the woman ran into the bathroom. She used to come to inseminate herself. And they had their children. They had their child. They have a child together. I was not planning on watching Deontay Wilder and Derek Chisora. I love boxing. Both guys have been warriors for a long time, but they're both at the tail end of their careers. I think I want to watch it now.

[B]

You want to watch it now?

[A]

Rachel, that. Come on.

[B]

That's a man who needs to be out of the ring. He don't need any more hits to the head. That's how I saw it. I said, first off, you could see Piers Morgan being like, I cannot believe this is where my career is at. Like, that's how I felt like he was looking. Deontay Wilder tells us he's smart and then proceeds to continue for 90 seconds to show us how smart. In fact, he is not.

[A]

Wow, tough.

[B]

I mean, how else? Like, there's no other way to slice it. I mean, but I believe he believed that.

[A]

That what? That he.

[B]

He believed he really was smart in how he was able to determine what he alleges is to how he had that child. By degrading her. By degrading the woman. Calls her promiscuous, says that she's the best thing. He knows this because she's the best. I don't think this is in that clip, but he knows this because she is the best thing. He is the best thing that's ever happened to her because she was promiscuous. He said, oh, he said, okay. I guess I tuned out. I guess I could only hear it once. Sorry. I could only hear it once. Like, I just. I just. I'm allergic to that, you know? Then he goes on to talk about, you know, how she, what, had a relationship every two months before him. Like, I just. The way. Then he goes through her journal and starts reading the pages of her journal just like. Just like all of it is. And that proves how smart he is.

[A]

Yeah, he's smart.

[B]

He's smart.

[A]

Smart guy.

[B]

Smart has a definition behind it. Smart actually means something.

[A]

What is smart?

[B]

It's. There's intellect there. Yeah, that's not what I just heard.

[A]

Well, look, look, all I can say is Deontay Wilder, first of all, let me be honest. I just don't know what fucking timeline of world. What the fuck is happening, bro? That's what Piers was like, I saw that clip.

[B]

That's what Pierce said.

[A]

I saw that clip. And I'm like, yo, what the fuck is going on? Right?

[B]

And he didn't crack a smile.

[A]

Who, Deontay?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

He deeply, deeply believes that. Yes.

[B]

He was dead ass serious.

[A]

So this is my deal for Deontay Wilder. That's not what happened. What happened is you nutted in her at some point. Y' all had sex. You're having unprotected sex. Precom is a juggernaut, okay? Precom is a juggernaut. One day, this is what happened. I know, because I know other niggas have done this. Deontay Wilder has invented this entire fantastical tale of how this woman got pregnant. She ran into the bathroom, scooped the come up, put it inside of her vagina. Lo and behold, the baby came. Yeah, that's not what happened.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay. What happened was y' all had sex at the wrong time of the month, right? Maybe the right time of the month. Because a life was created from it. Okay? And what happened was magic happened because you nutted inside of her. Might even been a little precom, little PC, okay? And then she got pregnant. Y' all have a baby. He goes on to talk about his relationship with his daughter and how great his daughter is doing. And the fantastic life that his daughter is having. Doesn't seem to have a great relationship with the mom because he embarrassed her. But, like. But there you go. So. But it was funny to hear. Cause once Deontay Wilder is done in the ring, start writing scripts, novels. He could be the next Zane. Okay? It's funny to hear what he thinks happened. The evil woman who scooped the cum off of her own stomach because she so desperately.

[B]

See, the man like that desperately wanted this fantastic man. The best thing she's ever had to change her life.

[A]

He is the former heavyweight champion of the world.

[B]

But she was like, he is going to change my whole life. And he is the only man that can do that for me. So I must take drastic measures. I know what he's gonna do. I know he's gonna have that towel nicely folded beside the bed. But I don't want to see it. And I know when I get up, he's gonna. I'm gonna swat his hand. He might be a boxer, but I am going to swat his hand so hard that I'm going to flee to the bathroom and and use that to put it inside of me to create a child. Because that is how desperately I need to be connected, attached, and a part of Deontay Wilder. That is the story that he just told.

[A]

So this is the problem with me in this particular story is I worked at TMZ for too long, and I would be lying if I didn't say something right here. I don't know if it happened then. But that does happen.

[B]

Of course it happens.

[A]

Okay. Of course it happens. So I don't know if it happened then. It doesn't seem like it happened then, because I don't know if there's any science being used, like, in that situation right there. I don't know if that's a thing. If that works like that. If you're out there and you have science and you know whether or not the company can say, the semen can stay alive.

[B]

I looked it up. It said one to 30 minutes after it hits air. I looked it up.

[A]

30 minutes.

[B]

I looked. At least that's what a quick Google search search showed me. I said 30 minutes. How long? Now, I'm sure as the minutes go by, the lesser chance you have, but I. It. It said 1 to 30. That's what it said. 1 to 30 minutes.

[A]

So if she acted fast enough, Deontay. Hold on.

[B]

Look that up and make sure it wasn't.

[A]

Wilder might be right. I don't agree with him, like, degrading her to promiscuous stuff, but it could happen.

[B]

But, like, here's the thing. Yeah. Like, of course there are people who try to get pregnant on purpose. Duh. Like, we know that happens. But this story. I'm not giving space. I'm not giving any room for that with this story. Like, why she got to be promiscuous? Why can't you be the promiscuous one? Why is promiscuous never used for a man? You out here nutting inside of her, no protection. Like, talking about, like, you want to degrade her and make her seem like she's just. Who has only been in these relationships for one month or two months. But, like, you chose her. You wanted to be with her. Why is she the promiscuous one and not you? Like, I'm not giving space to anything in this situation.

[A]

This is what I'm saying. Like, here, it is toxic. This is the deal. First of all, he never said he wasn't promiscuous.

[B]

He never said he was. But he said she was.

[A]

He said she was. He said she was promiscuous. Is it wrong to describe somebody as promiscuous? Yeah, I think so.

[B]

Yeah, I tried to put it that way. Now if she said that, okay, like,

[A]

just like, this is why everybody should be open about this shit. Because if we all.

[B]

And that's a subjective term.

[A]

If we are all open, like, if we're all open, then you know what? If we all hoes, then nobody's a ho.

[B]

Sure. But here's the thing. Promiscuous is like my promiscuous. My definition of it might not be your definition of promiscuous. Right. So that's why it's wrong for him, but that's why it's wrong for him to call her that because you are putting your definition of promiscuous that that might not be the next person's. It's. It's subjective.

[A]

So promiscuity. I don't believe in it as a.

[B]

As a definition, but Deontay does. And so I. I'm not giving him anything conclusion, you know?

[A]

You know what I believe?

[B]

No more fights.

[A]

This is what I believe in. Shut up. He got one more. I think he only gonna. I don't think. This is what I believe in. This is what I believe.

[B]

He probably does.

[A]

Only I believe. I believe that. You know how you could be a foodie? It's some people that eat, and there's some people that's foodies. Now you could be a foodie.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You could also be a fucky. Okay, There are some people that like food. They enjoy it, they like to eat it. But then there are some people that just live for food. They try different foods. They gotta have a different food every single day. They gotta go like, yo, hey, Van, we go across the fucking go. We go to this, like, little Thai restaurant in the middle of this place. We gotta have it. We gotta have some place like fucking. Like different places, like, gotta have Indian food. Gotta do all this. Gotta experience all of it. Gotta eat all the time. Different. Different types of food.

[B]

We got it.

[A]

They're foodies. Exactly. I know you got it, but I just think some people are fuckies. Some people, it's the same thing. It's just with fucking. Okay, now fucking is different because there's an exchange. You're making secrets with people. People's emotions get involved. So I'm not saying it's the same as being a foodie, but I'm saying it's a fucky. So I don't believe in promiscuity. Okay, he's probably a fucky. Well, he definitely is. If you look at all the. And maybe he had a fucking. Maybe they was both fuckies. Maybe it was two fuckies fucking together.

[B]

I want you to retire that word after this podcast.

[A]

Why?

[B]

I don't like.

[A]

You want me to retire the house of love.

[B]

They retired it for you, man. Nobody believe that shit.

[A]

House of love was a flop.

[B]

Duh.

[A]

Gotta go. The house of Love. The house of love was a flop. Look, I gotta say this to y', all, man. I love y'. All. I love y'. All. You know what the house of love is? The house of love. It. It actually will persist.

[B]

What did I tell you it was.

[A]

It's a house of one.

[B]

It's a house of one. Only one person lives there.

[A]

Okay, that's fine. That's fine. We talk about the house of love. I. I thought about something. The house of love isn't something that we allow people that we are examining into the audience or something like that. You know what the house of love is?

[B]

What?

[A]

It's us and the audience. That's the house of love. That's the love that I believe in. You guys. You upset with me. It's fine. Whatever, Whatever. That's cool. I get it. I understand it. But I still love you guys and I'm going to love you guys. Except for the people on the Reddit, all right? Who posted pictures of my.

[B]

Take us out. Take us out. Okay, Take us out.

[A]

The only people, everybody else, even other people on the Reddit. I love them. House of love. They did not appreciate that shit. Yeah, that was. That was on the level of the January crash out. Almost take Think Capsule, but not stop learning. What an interesting episode.

[B]

No guests. It's been nice to have, like, just like, talk. Just talk, talk, talk.

[A]

People don't. Some people don't like the guests.

[B]

We are not a guest driven show. And I know lately we've been having a lot of guests, so this was nice to just, like, you know, go back to our roots and just talk. But we do have guests coming up.

[A]

We have a lot of guests coming

[B]

up, but we hear you. We hear you. I get it.

[A]

Coming up is gonna be on the show.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Karen Bass is coming up. We got Wanya Morris.

[A]

No, I'm just. I'm just joking. That nigga not gonna be the guest on nobody's show for a while.

[B]

I mean, he can come on here, we'll have a conversation.

[A]

Yeah, I'd love to have him take the gap, as always. NASA, I learned. I'm Van Langton Jr.

[B]

I'm Rachel Lynn, Lindsay. Bye guys.

[A]

Quick interruption worth hearing. If you love sports, TikTok is for you. Game highlights, expert breakdowns and fan reactions. Just the moments that matter. Download TikTok now.