Higher Learning with Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay

Episode: Paying Teachers, Missing White Women Syndrome, and Pool Party Foul
Date: May 2, 2025
Host: The Ringer

Episode Overview

This episode of Higher Learning dives into three major topics: the gutting of the Department of Education and how it affects teachers (featuring former Secretary of Education John King Jr.), “Missing White Women Syndrome” in true crime media (with filmmaker Lisa Cortez), and a viral pool party incident that sparks a conversation on respect, attention-seeking, and gender dynamics. Hosts Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay also tackle recent political events, internal dynamics in the Trump administration, controversy in NBA celebrations, and the persistent gender and racial stereotypes affecting culture, sports, and media.

Quick Hitters & Cultural Commentary

Trump’s First 100 Days and Cabinet Dysfunction

• [04:20 – 10:59]
• The hosts react to audio of Trump’s Cabinet lavishly praising him, with Van ridiculing the performative loyalty:
  • Van Lathan [06:23]: “There’s a blowbang where everybody lines up to suck the dick of one person. And that’s essentially what happened here at this cabinet meeting.”
• Discussion shifts to media infighting and dysfunction in Trump’s administration. Rachel points out that staff turnover and infighting has become performative, showing more about internal loyalty than serving the public.
  • Van Lathan [09:39]: “This administration is different… The goal is to have loyalists that won’t question him… Does that signal anything to the American people? I’m not so sure that it does.”

Stephen A. Smith, Trump, and “The Weave”

• [11:13 – 14:36]
• Trump’s habit of dodging questions is mocked after a disjointed exchange with Stephen A. Smith, conflating “Harvard” with “Harlem.”
  • Van Lathan [12:15]: “What the fuck is that nigga talking about?”
  • Rachel Lindsay [13:08]: “How do you not have a follow up question or just even correct or say, wait, wait, wait, why are we talking about Harlem? The question was about Harvard.”
• The hosts riff on Trump’s rhetorical misdirection—“the weave.”

Paul Pierce and “Black Men/White Women” Narratives

• [15:41 – 27:55]
• Discussion of Paul Pierce’s comments on NBA players dating white women, and the backlash Rachel often faces when joking or criticizing Black men on the show.
  • They address the double standard and sensitivity around criticisms between Black men and women, with Rachel reflecting on her own history and intent.
  • Rachel Lindsay [19:57]: “I am at fault at times... for generalizing, so I get that. But...I have a love for black men. ...I care more about black men more than I care about talking about other races.”
  • Van Lathan [23:35]: “Is it okay for black men to get their feelings hurt when black women are specifically leveling criticisms?...”
• Strong emphasis that context and relationships matter in these conversations.

Terrence Howard, Homophobia, and Black Masculinity

• [29:40 – 35:43]
• Terrence Howard’s comments about refusing to kiss a man onscreen and discussing Marvin Gaye’s rumored sexuality are criticized.
  • Rachel Lindsay [32:19]: “To then follow that up with, I would rip my lips off...Screams homophobia.”
  • Van Lathan [33:41]: “It’s homophobic to draw the line there...when you gotta double, triple down on it...it’s destructive and dangerous to me.”
• They discuss broader issues of homophobia and representation in the Black community and in Hollywood.

NBA Playoffs: Giannis, John Halliburton, and Fatherly Fights

• [36:17 – 45:08]
• John Halliburton (Tyrese Halliburton’s father) gets into a courtside confrontation with Giannis Antetokounmpo after a playoff win.
  • Van and Rachel humorously debate if a father like Halliburton (or their own) could beat an NBA player in a fight, with Van sharing stories about cross-cultural male camaraderie.
  • Van Lathan [40:30]: “I'm saying...everybody out there always assumes that the NBA player, the athlete is just gonna run through somebody...My daddy at 62 will wash Giannis straight up.”

Pool Party Foul Discussion

The Viral Pool Incident

• [48:07 – 55:14]
• Van plays a video of a man trying to “playfully” throw a woman into a pool, dropping her painfully instead.
  • Van Lathan [51:20]: “He overestimated his physical strength...his importance...and his utility in that party. No one came to see you, Otis. We came for the ass.”
• The hosts use the incident to discuss party behavior, boundaries, and the tendency of some men to make themselves the center of attention at the expense of women’s safety and fun.
• Van laments the “OG crisis”—too few older role models teaching young men appropriate behavior.

Featured Interviews

1. John King Jr. – On Teacher Pay and the Department of Education

• [57:29 – 84:34]
• King, former Secretary of Education, discusses the Trump administration’s deep cuts and attempts to gut the Department of Education:
  • Half the staff is gone; critical functions like financial aid, civil rights enforcement, and transparency are being undermined.
  • John King Jr. [58:44]: “Education is a national imperative, and this is going to be very damaging.”
• He warns the damage is already being felt, especially by vulnerable students.
• On the motivation: a mix of anti-government philosophy and opposition to civil rights-era gains.
  • John King Jr. [61:03]: “There really is this effort to try to roll back many of the achievements of the civil rights movement.”
• Outcomes include teacher layoffs, harder access to financial aid, and a chilling effect on fair treatment in schools.
• On teacher shortages/exodus: States must compensate for lost federal funding, and communities need to lift up teachers—beyond symbolic gestures to voting and advocacy for better pay.
  • John King Jr. [67:00]: “Teachers are the engine of social mobility. It’s the reason that there is the American dream...”
• Van raises Black male literacy, and King details how instructional gaps in early phonics and science of reading disproportionately impact Black boys.
  • King highlights Mississippi as a model for improvement, citing their “science of reading”-driven reform.
• Rachel Lindsay [81:02] asks about fair teacher compensation; King says state legislatures and loan forgiveness can be crucial levers.
• Van proposes radical tax breaks for teachers as public servants, sparking a light-hearted debate.

2. Lisa Cortez – “Murder Has Two Faces” and Missing White Women Syndrome

• [86:13 – 97:59]
• Emmy-winning director Lisa Cortez introduces her Hulu docu-series exposing the true stories of women of color whose murders received far less attention than comparable white victims.
  • Lisa Cortez [87:20]: “There are parallel stories of women of color that we never hear about… These stories did not get any visibility.”
• Cortez and Rachel discuss their careful interviews with affected families, police, and journalists. In some cases, law enforcement remain silent or protective of colleagues’ past failures.
  • Lisa Cortez [91:15]: “There is a fraternity there. So they’re never going to say, oh, that person did it the wrong way.”
• On Missing White Women Syndrome, Cortez outlines how race, socioeconomic status, and family resources determine media and police response:
  • Lisa Cortez [92:46]: “It is about the inordinate visibility and compassion that is given to missing white women that is not afforded to women of color.”
  • Example: Lacey Peterson vs. Evelyn Hernandez, two pregnant women found in the same bay, with only Peterson receiving national attention.
• The series aims to humanize the lost, critique the system, and spark a call to action.

Additional Notable Quotes & Moments

• Van Lathan [07:44]: “I want you guys to be as disgusted as me.”
• Rachel Lindsay [79:57] (about maker teachers): “They can give you a sense of possibility and expose you to things you never otherwise would have considered.”
• Van Lathan [51:20]: “No one came to see you. Otis, we had a pool party. We came for the ass.”

Tone and Vibe

The show is a lively, humorous, sometimes profane but always sharp engagement with Black culture, politics, current events, and gender dynamics. Van and Rachel’s banter is both playful and reflective, offering both personal insight and cultural critique. They are candid about double standards, resentments, and the responsibilities that come with being public voices within their community.

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:48 Van & Rachel open; boxing, Derek James in studio
• 04:20 Trump’s 100 days/Cabinet meeting; “political blowbang” commentary
• 11:13 Trump/Stephen A. Smith “Harvard/Harlem” confusion
• 15:41 Paul Pierce’s comments/NBA dating, Black men/white women discourse
• 29:40 Terrence Howard, homophobia panel
• 36:17 Giannis, John Halliburton NBA courtside confrontation
• 48:07 Viral pool party foul, party dynamics
• 57:29 Interview with John King Jr. (Teacher pay, Dept. of Ed, literacy)
• 86:13 Interview with Lisa Cortez (“Murder Has Two Faces,” media bias)
• 98:03 Derek James on boxing, trainers, and Oak Cliff legacy

Episode Takeaways

• The Trump administration’s moves against the Department of Education have serious, real-world consequences for teachers, students, and the nation’s broader progress on civil rights.
• Cultural narratives about gender and race—whether in sports, media, or parties—are fraught, often hypocritical, and demand constant, honest dialogue.
• Media and systemic racism continues to shape whose stories are told and which communities receive justice and compassion.
• Valuing teachers and reforming education at the local and federal level is a generational imperative.
• Even the most viral party foul can become a teachable moment about respect, attention-seeking, and male privilege.

Notable Guests:

• John King Jr. (former Secretary of Education)
• Lisa Cortez (Emmy-winning director, “Murder Has Two Faces”)
• Derrick James (Four-time Boxing Trainer of the Year)

This episode stands out for its frank discussion of hard problems—education, media bias, gender relations—blending humor and gravity, and calling listeners to reflect and act, especially in voting, advocacy, and supporting marginalized communities.