Pete Hegseth’s Investigation, and the Danish Deception

Summary

Podcast Summary: Higher Learning with Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay

Episode: "Pete Hegseth’s Investigation, and the Danish Deception"

Date: December 2, 2025
Podcast Host: The Ringer

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Episode Overview

In this multifaceted episode, Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay explore a wide array of topics at the intersection of Black culture, politics, and society. The main focuses are a critical discussion about recent US military actions in the Caribbean (the "Pete Hegseth investigation"), a viral online relationship scam known as "The Danish Deception," the language of extremist immigration policies, and pointed conversations on financial literacy and intra-community accountability. The episode is lively, irreverent, and gravely serious in turns, balancing humor, cultural critique, and incisive analysis.

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Major Topics & Key Insights

1. Thanksgiving Recap & Community Rituals

• Van and Rachel share holiday experiences with family, and discuss generational traditions, grief, and commemoration.
  • Van jokes about how to properly honor ancestors in Tulsa:

    "Would it be better to A, go there and read about it and understand...or B, see a white person...and hit him in the face with egg?" (02:00)

  • Discussion about the passing of Viola Fletcher, oldest Tulsa massacre survivor (04:22)

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2. The Pete Hegseth/Caribbean Military Strike Controversy

Background (16:43–29:00)

• The hosts break down a Washington Post investigation revealing that then-Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth allegedly ordered "kill everybody aboard" strikes against suspected narco-terrorist boats in the Caribbean.
  • Key points:
    • No evidence presented for targets being true narco-terrorists; minimal transparency to the public or even Congress.
    • Survivors of an initial strike were allegedly executed in violation of international law ("hors de combat" status).

Notable Quotes:

• Van (17:52):

  "They've provided no evidence that these people are narco terrorists... They're clinging to life... It's against international law to then do what we did."

• Rachel (20:44):

  "They still have not provided names, organizations, evidence. Nothing in specifics. Not even just to us. Just in classified briefings to Congress. They are not providing anything."

• Rachel on moral stakes (24:49):

  "Anybody can get it eventually. How you're not scared that eventually they... disregard your life in the name of big upping themselves, I just don't understand."

• Van on communal desensitization (25:10):

  "They feel like they're driving down the street, the police stop them, get out, break all the rules... these are people that have never felt covered or protected by the Constitution in any way, shape or form..."

• Rachel (28:08):

  "In the past, if they've spotted a boat they suspect... they've pulled up, confiscated, maybe arrested people. Why are we not doing that?"

Societal & Political Implications

• Trumpism is reframed as a personality cult enabling potentially unlawful and inhumane policy ("cult mentality").
• The hosts tie this to wider issues of governmental overreach and lack of protection for marginalized communities.

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3. Remigration and Far-Right Rhetoric (33:37–37:37)

Origin and Use

• Remigration: Term adopted by European far-right movements, now entering US discourse via Trump.
• Rachel explains:

  "Remigration started being used by the far right... not to describe a voluntary return but to call for mass deportations or expulsion of immigrants. Yeah, it's been used for ethnic cleansing at this point, and President Trump has now used it for America..." (35:19)

Media Critique

• The hosts highlight the evasive language of political figures (notably Kristi Noem) and note the normalization of formerly extremist ideas.

Deeper Analysis by Van

• (37:37) Van reframes the core issue:

  "...Your enemy is not the Latino brother selling oranges... your enemy is the guy building the AI data center next to your house... Your entire everything is for them... They make corporations people. They make you less of a person."

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4. The Danish Deception: A Viral Romance Scam (44:04–63:48)

Case Details

• Onyeka, a Dallas woman and former "Bachelor" contestant, documents her whirlwind romance and subsequent financial scamming by a Danish man she married (lost ~$30,000 and family/friend loans).
• The TikTok series draws a critical public response, especially among Black women.

Critical Discussion

• Rachel summarizes Key elements of the scam story:
  • Onyeka ignores red flags due to idealization of whiteness and status ("perfect white man").
  • Friends and relatives also victimized—implying collective delusion or cultural idolization.
  • Discusses racial and gender lenses:

    "It's clear that he got away with all of this because he was your perfect white man. You thought that you had made it. You were proud despite knowing all these things..."

• Van debates the difference in sympathy received by different scam victims, notes discomfort in calling women "morons," and sharply critiques Onyeka's lack of self-awareness.
• Both hosts agree: Her susceptibility is tied to internalized white glorification.
  • Rachel (62:05):

    "The only way therapy works is if you are honest with yourself... You have got to realize how problematic it is that you glorify and praise whiteness..."

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5. Financial Literacy and NFL Athletes (66:46–78:59)

• Segue featuring Odell Beckham Jr.'s assertion that $12 million a year is "not enough."
• Both hosts express frustration at recurring lack of financial literacy among high-earning athletes.

Notable Quotes:

• Van (68:46):

  "Brothers need better financial literacy. Here's the f***ing exception. The exception is it's available."

• Rachel (72:10):

  "I was wondering what your take was, because I was like, why are we listening to you talk about this right now?"

• Discussion underscores the importance of not just earning but preserving intergenerational wealth and learning from past mistakes.

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6. Battle of the Bands, Cultural Ownership, and D9 Greek Organizations (80:04–95:21)

• Spirited debate on the Southern vs. Grambling "Battle of the Bands," morphs into a playful but pointed discussion over authenticity, tradition, and cultural gatekeeping within Black institutions (HBCUs, fraternities/sororities).
  • Van and Rachel banter over personal claims to cultural expertise and belonging.
  • They use humor and personal anecdotes to underscore broader themes of tradition, representation, and exclusion.

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7. Media Critique: Stephen A. Smith, Misinformation, and Grifters (95:21–103:23)

• Van:

  "Stephen A. Smith is probably the wrongest person. Stephen A. Smith has decided to be specifically dedicated to wrong."

• The hosts discuss Smith's shift from reporting to political punditry, the dangers of misinformation for profit, and compare him to other media grifters like Megyn Kelly.

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8. Silicon Valley Nerds and Cultural Appropriation (104:15–110:47)

• Critique of a viral tech party rap video as symbolizing broader societal shift: "We’ve turned over society to the nerds."
• Van:

  "When I see that dude, I see somebody...making decisions about your shit and they can't dance."

• Explores the peril of cultural gatekeepers lacking authenticity and critical self-awareness.

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9. Uplifting and Complicating: The Angola Prison Daddy-Daughter Dance (110:47–123:51)

• A segment on a heartwarming "Daddy Daughter Dance" at Angola Prison explores both the beauty and the tragedy of such humanizing moments within the context of a former slave plantation turned prison labor camp.

Key Points:

• Rachel emphasizes the event's humanity and psychological healing value.
• Van offers necessary skepticism:

  "Angola is a slave organization... Real work for the freedom of those men is addressing the material conditions that those men are living under."

• Both agree such events are important but cannot substitute for systemic reforms.

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10. Crime, Punishment, and Abolition Tension (124:15–128:46)

• Reflecting on a viral story of a barber-shop confrontation, Van and Rachel discuss the tension between a desire for abolitionist justice and the reality of community violence.
• Both come close to advocating incarceration for truly dangerous people, while grappling with the complexities of abolitionist ideals.

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Notable Quotes & Moments

| Timestamp | Speaker | Quote | |-----------|---------|-------| | 02:00 | Van | “Would it be better to A, go there and read about it...or B, see a white person...and hit him in the face with egg?” | | 17:52 | Van | “They’ve provided no evidence... these guys no longer pose a threat, it’s against international law to then do what we did.” | | 24:49 | Rachel | “Anybody can get it eventually. How you are not scared that eventually they... disregard your life in the name of big upping themselves...?” | | 37:37 | Van | “Your enemy is not the Latino brother selling oranges...your enemy is the guy building the AI data center next to your house...” | | 62:05 | Rachel | “You have got to realize how problematic it is that you glorify and praise whiteness.” | | 68:46 | Van | “Brothers need better financial literacy... it’s available.” | | 95:21 | Van | “Stephen A. Smith has decided to be specifically dedicated to wrong.” | | 110:47 | Van | “That is what’s wrong with America... we’ve turned over society to the nerds...” | | 113:43 | Van | “Let me tell you. So I reached out to this God behind bars group, right? ... Angola is a slave organization...” |

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:14–05:15: Thanksgiving, Tulsa, and Ancestors
• 16:43–29:00: Pete Hegseth/Caribbean Boat Attacks
• 33:37–37:37: “Remigration” and Political Language Drift
• 44:04–63:48: The Danish Deception TikTok Scandal
• 66:46–78:59: Odell Beckham, Financial Literacy & Athlete Wealth
• 80:04–95:21: Battle of the Bands & Cultural Authenticity
• 95:21–103:23: Media Grifters, Stephen A. Smith
• 104:15–110:47: Tech, Silicon Valley, and Cultural Appropriation
• 110:47–123:51: Angola Daddy Daughter Dance—Redemption vs. Structural Change
• 124:15–128:46: Barber Shop Gun Incident & Tension Points in Abolition

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Tone and Takeaways

• The episode intertwines humor, biting critique, personal anecdote, and coherent socio-political analysis, maintaining a conversational yet incisive style.
• Hosts are unflinchingly candid, often irreverent, pushing listeners to question media narratives (from military affairs to viral social stories), internalized biases (around race and status), and systemic injustices (from mass incarceration to wealth extraction).
• Listeners are left with a nuanced understanding of both headline topics and subtle cultural undercurrents, especially as these relate to Black experience and identity.

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For New Listeners

Even without prior context, this episode offers a compelling cross-section of Black cultural analysis, social justice interrogation, and media critique—punctuated by the hosts’ distinctive warmth, wit, and willingness to get real about personal and political contradictions.

Transcript

[Van Lathan]

Yo, yo, yo. Thought warriors. What is up? Higher learning is on.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Is Ivan Lathan Jr. And it's me, Rachel and Lindsay. How's your Thanksgiving?

[Van Lathan]

It was fine.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Just fine.

[Van Lathan]

I have fun.

[Rachel Lindsay]

You went to Layla's?

[Van Lathan]

Went to Layla's.

[Rachel Lindsay]

How was it your first Persian Thanksgiving?

[Van Lathan]

There's a thousand people there.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, there's like a thousand people there.

[Rachel Lindsay]

It's.

[Van Lathan]

Everyone was so friendly. Leila's family is uncommonly beautiful.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Yeah, they're really pretty. They're a really pretty family.

[Van Lathan]

Really pretty. That's disrespectful. Leila's family was gorgeous. Everyone looked like different versions of Persian. Beauty was nuts. Everyone was. It was fun. Had fun at Thanksgiving. How was your Thanksgiving? Because you were with family.

[Rachel Lindsay]

It was great. I split. I spent Thanksgiving in Houston. First time we all gathered together since my grandmother has passed. Our generation kind of organized it and put it together and it was really a really good time. Cowboys won, so even better. And then I went to Tulsa for the rest of it.

[Van Lathan]

So did you go and commemorate the massacre?

[Rachel Lindsay]

I'm sorry, what?

[Van Lathan]

Did you. When you were in Tulsa, did you go and pay your respects to the people?

[Rachel Lindsay]

I did that last time I was there.

[Van Lathan]

But did you do it?

[Rachel Lindsay]

Do I have to do it every. I'm supposed to do it every single time?

[Van Lathan]

I was asking the question.

[Rachel Lindsay]

I did not, so fuck them.

[Van Lathan]

Okay, so you don't care. You and your family went there. You guys don't care.

[Rachel Lindsay]

I did it last time.

[Van Lathan]

That's funny. So when you went there the last time, just as. As funny as. Because if. When you went there, what did you do? How did you commemorate it?

[Rachel Lindsay]

I'd never been.

[Van Lathan]

Wouldn't it be better. So let me ask you a question. To commemorate or to give.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Stop it, Donnie.

[Van Lathan]

Just real quick. To give respect to the survivors and the victims of the Greenwood Massacre, would it be better to A, go there and read about it and understand it and energetically commune with them in the Greenwood neighborhood, or B, see a white person that's walking across the street in the Greenwood neighborhood and him in the face with egg. What? Which would be better?

[Rachel Lindsay]

I'm gonna go with A.

[Van Lathan]

You sure?

[Rachel Lindsay]

I'm positive on this joke.

[Van Lathan]

Which do you think would please the ancestors more? So the ancestors that's up there looking, and I wanna shout out the ancestors, right? Cause we got different versions of ancestors. I've. There are ancestors that they are tougher to please, and then there are ancestors that is easy to please. It's ancestors that you wake up and you just lay on the couch and they cry. They go and look at him. He's doing exactly what the fuck he wants to do and no one can tell him anything.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Right, right.

[Van Lathan]

And then there are ancestors that came later on that they want you to go out and continue that legacy of activism. Their ancestors that are just happy to see you living and breathing.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Sure.

[Van Lathan]

But I feel like the Tulsa ancestors who we the last living. Yeah, I feel like the Tulsa ancestors. If I was one of them, I would wanna see somebody getting hit in the face with an egg. Not anything like not go. At least have somebody. If you were at the Tulsa vigil and a white person walked by, at least give some energy. Go. Hey, hey.

[Rachel Lindsay]

What if they were there to pay their respects?

[Van Lathan]

Well, then you need to ask them what they learned.

[Rachel Lindsay]

What if they were before I throw this egg? Maybe I understand.

[Van Lathan]

You don't even have to hit them with the egg. Throw the egg at their feet. You know, they walk by. Boom. And let a little yolk get on their shoes.

[Rachel Lindsay]

It's actually a little funnier.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah. They want don't throw the egg. Cause you're gonna get. Okay, so.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Exactly.

[Van Lathan]

Okay, so don't throw the egg. Don't egg random white people. Right. Don't do that. But throw the egg at they feet. Like throw like a white people. If you at the Tulsa vigil and somebody walks by, you know, they all gentrified. They listen, they got wired headphones.

[Rachel Lindsay]

It is gentrified over there.

[Van Lathan]

Just throw an egg at their feet. Boom. Hey, man, what the fuck? Hey, don't talk to me like that.

[Donnie]

Stop.

[Van Lathan]

Pay your respects.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Yeah. So I did not go this year.

[Van Lathan]

But I mean, Donnie put it in the chat. Viola Fletcher.

[Rachel Lindsay]

No, that's what I said. Donnie said.

[Van Lathan]

Oldest survivor of the Tulsa race massacre. Died at 111. Viola Fletcher.

[Rachel Lindsay]

And may she rest in peace, Ms. Viola. Yes. Yes. Nah, I was in and out.

[Van Lathan]

But you guys have fun as a family. Thanksgiving.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I had a good time. Split Thanksgiving.

[Van Lathan]

Split Thanksgiving. So Houston and in Oklahoma.

[Rachel Lindsay]

In Tulsa. Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

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[Rachel Lindsay]

This week, On Scene on the screen. We were like, okay, we're going to do three times more than three times that amount of animatronics for the second one. So we've got like a full on army of animatronics in the second. We really focused on the fan base first and foremost. At least if we stick the landing with them, we're in good shape. Join me, Jacqueline Coley, as I meet the filmmakers, actors and industry insiders influencing entertainment. Each episode, guests share their journeys and inspirations and answer trivia about the movies that shape them. My next guest is Emma Tommy, director of Five Nights at Freddy's and. And Five Nights at Freddy's too. To listen, simply search seen on the screen. Wherever you listen to podcasts.

[Van Lathan]

Did you see that video of those people that I put up that are from Oklahoma? No, it's this. This guy that does a necessary conversations podcast and he was talking to his parents.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Yes, I know who that. Cause he started off doing a Bachelor podcast, still does do it. Game of Roses.

[Van Lathan]

Game of Roses. We're gonna talk about the Bachelor a little bit later. The guy's name is Chad, right? What's his name?

[Rachel Lindsay]

Very interesting podcast.

[Van Lathan]

What's interesting about it?

[Rachel Lindsay]

Well, the necessary conversation just the same. He's talking to his parents. Yeah, yeah. It's his sister, right?

[Van Lathan]

Him and his sister talking to his parents. And I will say this, that his parents looking at Chad and his sister, that must be his parents nightmare. Cause they look like the type of white people that I would kick it with. Like the sister got the tattoos and she's. She. Cause Chad was being very measured and stuff with his parents. His sister was like, she cursing him now. Hey, grow the fuck up, you cult member. That's the type of people I like to hang around. So knowing that those are their kids, we could put the clip in right here if you guys want to hear it. But knowing that those are their kids, they probably were triggered. They're probably triggered, which is why they were saying the craziest fucking shit.

[Rachel Lindsay]

They're from Oklahoma.

[Van Lathan]

They're from Oklahoma.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Okay, okay, okay.

[Van Lathan]

Like in the clip, they talked about the fact that like, Trump likes Oklahoma, which is why Trump would never order the military to go in and kill everyone in Oklahoma or carpet bomb Oklahoma. And his father and mother didn't care if it happened in la. Didn't care if Trump killed him, their son. That's how much they love Trump.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Yeah, I didn't see that clip. I've seen other clips, but I know the dad is just blindly loyal to Trump. It doesn't matter what he says does the mom will have slight empathy. But then it's like, well, if Trump says it's okay, then it's okay. She tries very little.

[Van Lathan]

So. Okay, we're gonna get into a story that's like, tangential to this, but I wanna say this. We've done glaze of the week here off and on, going on like six months to a year. When we do glaze of the week, it's normally Trump related. Guys, it's difficult to find glazes that are more direct that glaze people that.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Glaze harder than they do for Trump.

[Van Lathan]

It's tough, right? There are some. Right. But it's difficult to find. So in the new year, I'm not gonna even try to hide it. I'm gonna do top five trump Dick riders of the week. Top five trump dick Riders.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Oh, every week.

[Van Lathan]

Because it's weekly or bi monthly at least. Grant Cardone, you know him?

[Rachel Lindsay]

Yeah, I have issues with his wife.

[Van Lathan]

You have issues with Grant Cardone's wife?

[Rachel Lindsay]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

What happened?

[Rachel Lindsay]

Not the same thing, but not years ago. You know her years ago? I don't know her well. No, no, no. Years ago.

[Van Lathan]

Is it Cardone or Cardone?

[Rachel Lindsay]

It's Cardone.

[Van Lathan]

Okay.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Years ago, I did her podcast when I lived in Miami because they live in Miami. And while I was like doing it, whatever went. Had a conversation, I can't remember, she was about the Bachelor or something like that. And I was about to get married and. And I was trying to.

[Van Lathan]

What are you getting married to?

[Rachel Lindsay]

I was trying to help her have, like, have like a tease. So she was like, well, can you say the date and I'll bleep it out? And I was like, sure. I was like, sure. And I said. Or maybe I said the month or whatever. Anyways. And I had an exclusive with people, so, like, I really couldn't put it out there. And she was like, oh, that'd be so great. Thank you. I'm like, trying to get my podcast up. I'm like, sure, whatever. Releases the podcast releases the whole. The thing unedited. Oh, releases the thing unedited.

[Van Lathan]

What a fool you were.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Maybe not like, I got in trouble. I mean, I think I said the month or something like that. They ended up taking it down, but.

[Van Lathan]

Oh, you got. Oh, so you're worn a fool. They actually made a mistake.

[Rachel Lindsay]

She wasn't supposed to do it, but.

[Van Lathan]

Then she took it down.

[Rachel Lindsay]

She took it down. So if she put it up, she took it down, but she put it up.

[Van Lathan]

So do you think that she did it on purpose.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Of course she did it on purpose.

[Van Lathan]

So did you. Who do you blame, her or yourself?

[Rachel Lindsay]

Oh, probably a little bit of both.

[Van Lathan]

A little bit of both as well.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But I mean, it wasn't like the most exclusive thing, but it was kind of like, eh, probably should have known better, so. She was my friend. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Anyways, keep going. Grant Cardone. Grant Cardone.

[Van Lathan]

That won't happen to you again. They'll never get my friend again.

[Rachel Lindsay]

They'll never get your friend again.

[Van Lathan]

They got her once, but guess what she got back.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Was it that big of a deal? It was just more of annoying, right? It was like, I can stand to lose if you do do this. But it was just like, come on. I can tell you why I stand to lose. Is this really the thing you want to do?

[Van Lathan]

But okay, I could stand to lose a. Grant Cardone said that he spent a whole evening with Trump and that Trump's stamina is incredible. Grant, I don't know if you was trying to do it, but it sounds like Trump fucked you right up.

[Rachel Lindsay]

I don't think that's what he was trying to do, but yes, that is what it sounds like.

[Van Lathan]

I don't think that. I'm not saying that, like, what do.

[Rachel Lindsay]

We think he was referring to? That's just all the things that he could have been referring to other than.

[Van Lathan]

Maybe they played golf, maybe they bathed each other.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Just opposite. Okay, they played every time they do this.

[Van Lathan]

Listen, can I. You know why People. People.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Maybe they play video games.

[Van Lathan]

Maybe, Maybe they was on the mad and they were for a long. Yeah, maybe Trump was like chipper and all of that. It could be a lot of things. But listen, if people are wondering why is the homoeroticism injected into these various things that people say about Trump or the Trump thing is because legitimately. And I'm going to speak to all of you guys here because when we do the top five Trump dick riders of the week or the month. Maybe the month. Maybe the month makes more sense. Maybe we won't do this. This much I'm trying to figure out. And we're going to get to the P. Hessack story right now. I'm trying to figure out like at this point, at this point, what it is. Seriously, all jokes aside, listen, I get it. I understand. Donald Trump came along and swept people up, swept them up. And there seemed to be a cultural mandate from all of the Trump supporters that shielded you, made you bulletproof in elections, made you bulletproof and rhetoric and all of that stuff. Right. Although, you know, to be honest with you, it's always worked for Donald Trump. But I could argue that running with Trump, especially lately, the last two or three years, hasn't been as bulletproof as people think that it has. There've been some very prominent MAGA people running with Trump that have lost races.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Yeah, I think. I mean, we always. We know it's a cult, right? Like, even us talking about the parents on the Necessary Conversation podcast and all that. It's a cult mentality. Right? But it's. When you talk about them getting swept up, they wouldn't have the power, the position, the fame, the money, the attachment to all of it without attaching themselves to the Trump bandwagon. And that's really what it comes down to. So even if they might not be doing well in the polls or might lose an election, they still are connected to Trump, and they otherwise wouldn't be. We wouldn't be talking about them. We wouldn't hear about them. They'll never be and. Or have the status that they have right now again. They'll never be this again.

[Van Lathan]

That's a good point. I mean, that's what it is. That's what it is. They'll never fool my friend again. So my point now, though, is it's slipping. It's slipping for all of you guys. It's slipping. It really is slipping. We've talked about this before, but it's actually slipping, and you guys are still doing it. And let me tell you something else about cults that we don't talk about. I want you guys out here in the podcast land to think about all the cults that have existed. Think about the wild, wild country people. Think about David Koresh. Think about all these cults, Nexium. All of these cults. Somebody was getting fucked, okay? They were fucking. So when people say, hey, Van, why are you saying that these guys have a desire for Trump? That's carnal, carnal knowledge. That's because I think it's bordering on that. I think they like him. I think they like the cut of his jib, his musk. I think they. I think they like him. Granted, I imagine Grant typing that tweet out. Nobody's saying, hey, Grant, sounds like you sucked his dick. Stamina. Incredible stamina. Evening, sexy boy. All right, let's move on. Pete Hexseth is. Could be potentially a murderer.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Could be what?

[Van Lathan]

Could be what? What special times we live in, Rachel. Donnie, you want to get us into this story?

[Rachel Lindsay]

Could be.

[Donnie]

Yeah.

[Rachel Lindsay]

And proud of it. Proud of it. He loves it. Let's see. Let's not forget that part. Not just.

[Van Lathan]

Possibly he has a bloodlust. I'll tell you what. It's about to be New Year's time. And, you know, we used to go to. Down to Anguilla for the New Year's, and all of these people used to come out in the Caribbean in their boats. Y' all better be careful out there in them boats, man.

[Donnie]

Oh, man.

[Van Lathan]

Y' all better be careful out there at Yacht Week in the Caribbean, Saint Barts and all of this. Y' all might get a kinetic strike.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Actually terrifying.

[Van Lathan]

I'm just being for real, y'. All. You. You never fucking know. Everybody used to be out there. We'd be on the beach and we'd see all the boats and be like, that's Michael Jordan's boat. That's. What's the nigga from bet.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Which one?

[Van Lathan]

The guy who started bet. What's his name?

[Rachel Lindsay]

Oh, Johnson.

[Van Lathan]

Oh, what? Robert Johnson. Isn't that his name? This is his.

[Rachel Lindsay]

I'm mixing it up with, like, the hair color.

[Van Lathan]

I was about to say Ben Johnson.

[Rachel Lindsay]

That's the dude that called. It's not Ben Johnson.

[Donnie]

It is. It's Bob Johnson.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Bob Johnson.

[Donnie]

Bob Johnson.

[Van Lathan]

Bob Johnson. Who had one of the coldest lines ever. I don't mean to out Bob Johnson, but we was working on my first show that ever worked, College Hill, and people was mad about how much they got paid.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Oh, you worked on that?

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, people was mad about how much they got paid. And Bob Johnson told the people, he said, this is what I was told. He said, you're not here to make yourself money. You're here to make me money.

[Rachel Lindsay]

And that's why he's a billionaire. He was a billionaire.

[Van Lathan]

Anyway, all those boats out there, those boats might get striked. Kinetic strike. And if they don't get you the first time, they'll get you the second time. Thomas.

[Donnie]

Yeah. The leaders of the House Armed Services Committee said over the weekend that they're going to seek full accounting of a US Military attack against alleged drug trafficking boats in the Caribbean. This is after a Washington Post report alleges that Defense Secretary Pete Heth ordered U.S. troops to, quote, kill everybody aboard a vessel. The Post reports that the first strike on the boat left two survivors who were clinging to the wreckage and that the special operations commander ordered a second attack to comply with Hegseth's order.

[Van Lathan]

Okay, so what they're essentially saying is that they. If you guys don't know what's Going on right now. There are people in boats in the Caribbean, off Venezuela that Donald Trump and his regime claim are narco terrorists. Now, they've provided no evidence that these people are narco terrorists. We don't know their names, we don't know where they come from, where they're going, where they're coming from. But there was a boat in these waters that we identified as acting as if they were narco terrorists doing things that narco terrorists would do. That's what they said.

[Rachel Lindsay]

That's what they said.

[Van Lathan]

That's what they said. Now, even some of the reasons that they've given to classify specific cartels as narco terrorists, some of those documents are classified, so we can't even see them. We haven't seen these documents. Right. We don't know anything about why they're doing this. They don't feel the need in any way to be transparent with the public as they wage what they say is a war. Normally. Normally when a war is waged, unless it's like Iran Contra in the 80s and it's a real covert war funded by all of this stuff, Nicaragua and all that stuff, normally when the war is waged semi, out in the open, there are reasons given to the American public as to why this is happening. They're not trying to do that at all. They looked at this one particular boat and they said, this boat is acting weirdly. They hit the boat. Guys survived. Very, very. Two guys survived. Very interesting distinction there. Why? Because these guys are now out of combat, right? What's it called? Hoard her horror to combat. Basically, they're out of combat. They're clinging to life. Clinging to life. These guys no longer pose a threat, is against international law. To then do what we did, according to this report, which is order a second strike by Seal Seal Team 6 and execute these guys.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Whores de combat.

[Van Lathan]

Whores de combat means out of the.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Fighting, out of the fight.

[Van Lathan]

So we then executed them, just boom. Hexseth went in, according to this reporting. Kill him, done. Illegal, illegal, inhumane, bad, wrong. Everything is right there. Illegal, bad, humane, illegal.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Well, like even some of the stuff that's coming out, right? So, like that, that attack. Because there have been nearly two dozen attacks, over 80 people, all of them are illegal, have been killed.

[Donnie]

Right?

[Rachel Lindsay]

But even that attack in particular, they changed the protocols after that, like almost insinuating, even more so. Right. It's all illegal. Right. But if you take that one in particular, which is the one at issue, because of the two people that were. That survived and then you know, it's being reported by the Washington Post that he said, kill them all. So that's why they did it again. They changed the protocols after that. Almost knowing that. That probably may have been a step too far. It's all a step too far. Okay, just to be clear. But that might have been something that was different. Other thing in the classified briefings to members of Congress. So they've had these classified briefings, right? They talked to some of Congress in addition to what you're saying. They have talked to them, and they still have not provided names, organizations, evidence. Nothing in specifics. Not even just to us. Just in classified briefings to Congress. They are not providing anything. Nothing.

[Van Lathan]

I got a couple people asking me, like, why I care about this and why anyone should care.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Really?

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Like, how could you not care? But keep going. We can get into that.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Okay, guys.

[Van Lathan]

What I realized is this.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Guys.

[Van Lathan]

Well, I mean, look, listen. And I had to tell a friend of mine this past weekend. I had to, unfortunately tell him that he is a moron. He took the news, but I was.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Like, I'm proud of you. I was saying that.

[Van Lathan]

Hey, bro, I'm gonna be honest with you, man.

[Rachel Lindsay]

What?

[Van Lathan]

You just don't know what you're talking about. You're a moron, and that's okay. So I told him this. I was like, let's say that, like, because, you know, there's a homie from around the way, and it's not glasses. So every. Every time I say it's one of my homies.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Oh, is that what they think? That's not what I was thinking.

[Van Lathan]

Glasses is the furthest thing from a moron. Glasses is deviously, criminally brilliant. I just wish we could get Glasses Malone to our side.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Yeah. I mean, is he misogynist? Sure.

[Van Lathan]

Hey, who am I, right? Who am I?

[Rachel Lindsay]

All right, you could be smart.

[Van Lathan]

And still the glass is grilling. I just wish I could use glasses as polish for good, but I can't. He's got a good heart underneath it. And I'm gonna keep working on my brother. It's a great brother. But look, I was talking to him, and I was like, it's okay that you don't know what the fuck you're talking about. And I love you anyway because you are a member of street criminal organization. Let's just say that the ag, Donald Trump, everyone wakes up tomorrow and goes, you know what? We're actually fighting a war against the Crips, Correct? Like, we're fighting a war against the Crips, correct? We're not. The Crips aren't a criminal organization. They are a street narco terrorist organization that the United States is in an act of war with. That means they can send mq40 reaper drone over your hood and just start killing people. And not just start killing people that they've identified as Crips, known Crips. Anyone wearing blue or purple or whatever it is that your set's color is, they can just kill you. That's what this in in these waters. That's the precedent that's being set. The President is being said is, you know what, we don't need to come out and make a case to people about why we're doing what it is that what we're doing and telling you what type of conflict we're in. We said that we're in a war. We said that these are the combatants. We said that they are dangerous. We get to kill them with no type of oversight, with no type of restriction in any way that we want. And trust me, bro, it just seems.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Like such common sense. That's why I was like, wait, what? Why would somebody fix their mouth to say that? Why do we care about this? It's so obvious. Even if you see what's happening just with immigration in this country. We talked about it at great length on the podcast. The way that people are disposable, the way that this country value certain lives over others, the way that there's an overreach of power, the way that there is a disregard for laws, the way that there is a willingness to break the law in order to achieve political propaganda that you've been spewing. I don't understand how you don't correlate the two. I don't understand how you can see that what's happening in the Caribbean is so far fetched. Even Colombia is accusing the United States of killing an innocent fisherman. They're saying that the people that are being killed aren't even a part of the drug cartel. There's been replacement, there's been reporting that we'll take the September 2nd attack for instance, that that boat, and with 11 people, there's no way that the size of the boat and the number of people all could have been involved with the drug cartel, even if some of it, like that's what's being reported out here. And so for you to not look at that and be terrified at what the government is willing to do, what the Trump administration is willing to do, and not think that, hey, when you see how they treat anybody who is not basically a white straight male.

[Donnie]

Right.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Anybody can, can get it eventually. How you are not scared that eventually they, maybe they won't murder you, but they'll do something that puts you in a situation where they disregard your life in the name of big upping themselves. I just don't understand how, how you are not terrified by that. It's not that far fetched.

[Van Lathan]

But there is, there is one explanation to it and it's something that I'm begging my brothers and my people to get over. One explanation for it that I came up with as I was thinking about it is that they feel like this already happened to them. Hear me out. They feel like they're driving down the street, the police stop them, get out, break all the rules. These are people that have never felt covered or protected by the Constitution in any way, shape or form. So they making them feel like there's this impending doom, that these overreaches and that it's coming for you. It's hard to do because they go, the police do that to us all the time. Like we walking, the police stop us, pat us down, cuff us, throw us on the ground, do us all that kind. Like the police do that all the time. As a matter of fact, we. Our battle with the police isn't this battle of cat versus mouse, criminal against law enforcement. Our battle is like human versus non human. Like our battle is just do shit the way you supposed to do it. So they always planting stuff on us, they always beating us up, like that's how it goes. And so I think sometimes that that level of, I don't know, nihilism that comes from a group of people who are used to having their law, their rights, their human rights, their actual rights, their rights as members of the American community trampled on. That nihilism actually is being weaponized by the Trump administration in a way that the administration might not even realize. The administration might not realize that they're actually forcing something down the throat of a group of people who have lost faith in a lot of these institutions already. So what difference does it make? I understand that my retort is it can always get worse.

[Rachel Lindsay]

That's. And that's the thing. And it's not just, it's not just black. I know we're having a hard time.

[Van Lathan]

We'Re talking about, specifically about.

[Rachel Lindsay]

But like there are other groups of people who also are just turning a blind eye to what's going on as well, I guess is my point. But I understand that. But you're right, it can get worse. It can be worse. And imagine that was going on under an. Not as bad. Imagine with an administration like this, where things could go. Also, I don't think we talk enough about, like, for the people who, you know, might accept this or are like, oh, it's justified because they're stopping the war on drugs. It's like, why can't there be another way to do it? Right. In the past, if they've spotted a boat that they suspect is, you know, a part of, you know, carrying drugs or members of the drug cartel or whatever it may be, they've pulled up, they've confiscated, you know, whatever drugs may be, or maybe arrested people or whatever. Yeah. Like, why are we not doing that? Detaining suspects?

[Van Lathan]

Because that's not why we're doing this.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Exactly. But that's. I'm agreeing with you.

[Van Lathan]

But they've recommissioned a naval base in Puerto Rico to be able to do this. That's not why they're doing this.

[Rachel Lindsay]

That's the question.

[Van Lathan]

They want regime change in Venezuela, and.

[Rachel Lindsay]

That'S the questions we should be asking, is there are other ways to do it. Why are they not doing this way? Because there's an ulterior motive. There's something else that it is that they're trying to do. No, I'm completely agreeing with you. And you got. Which I've said this before with Pete Hexseth. He's playing Secretary of Defense, like, what he thinks they're supposed to do. It's like the game Battleship. He's out there playing games with it, and that's why he put up that post that you put up on your social media with poor Franklin the turtle turning him into that. This is a game to him. It's all a game.

[Van Lathan]

Not Franklin, man. Can we leave Franklin out of this? Donnie played a Bakari clip.

[Rachel Lindsay]

He said that those orders that were given the drug boats in Venezuela were illegal. Can you cite those statutes, please?

[Van Lathan]

Yes, because it's actually called the due process clause of the United States of America. Because can you point to one of those boats that actually had drugs on them? Do you know that? Do you know about the Trinidadians who were killed innocently, who were just fishermen? Can you actually kill those fishermen without due process? So the answer to the question is yes, I can cite the Constitution, just as Scott did. Easy win for Bakari. You guys don't want Katie Miller on television, but to me, I think that's a useful clip to show the Gulf of intelligence and information that exists between a Bakari and a Katie Miller now are we still mad at Bakari on Higher Learning? Yes we are.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Because of the election. Yes, we're still mad. I'm not mad. Bakari.

[Van Lathan]

We're still mad. We're still mad at Bakari. We got other things we need to talk to Bakari about too by the way. But we're still mad at Bakari. Love Bakari. We're still mad at Bakari cause Bakari lied to us.

[Rachel Lindsay]

You think he lied Bakari or was he just.

[Van Lathan]

But he also big timed us. He also big timed us on the election night special came in. Haha you niggas just wait. It's gonna be a blue wave. Never happened. Bakari.

[Rachel Lindsay]

He was very flippant about it too like you guys. Why are you questioning this? You know what's gonna happen. That's more of what it was.

[Van Lathan]

He was like idiot motherfuckers. Just wait till you wake up in the morning. I woke up in to nothing but dread. But having said that, when you look at someone who understands what they're talking about and can deliver a level headed explanation as to why this is so terrible and why she's so wrong. Her being legitimately one of the densest people I have ever seen on television ever before. Ever before. One of the densest, one of the best spokespeople to me ever for the ignorance and misinformed nature of the MAGA person. To me that's her and I like seeing her. I do.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Cause you like the back and forth, you like the debate. I do not think like you said, easy win for Bakari because duh, it's due process. I wrote this on somebody's post. We have Scott Jennings. We don't need Katie. At the same time, you don't need to platform both.

[Van Lathan]

Scott Jennings is why you need Katie. Because Scott at least is a good launderer of the absurdity of Trumpism. Scott is good at laundering it. He is an effective debater, he's an effective communicator. I think that he oftentimes sacrifices that intelligence.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Of course he does.

[Van Lathan]

You have to launder what Trump is doing because I think that it's indefensible. But with her, she is not any of those things. She is a legitimate numbskull and she is a numbskull with proximity to one of the most powerful men in America. And wherever she goes she gets embarrassed. And at a time when people are making their decision about whether to stay the course with this type of politics or whether to choose something different, I think having a mascot is a good Thing I like when the mascot come on the court, do a flip and then dunk the ball. I'm like, oh, look at that. Like, she is a mascot for what's wrong with the thinking in MAGA world right now?

[Rachel Lindsay]

I think that there are other platforms for her. I just don't think that that's where she should be. But that's just, that's just my opinion. I just don't. Yeah, she's, she's all the things you just said.

[Van Lathan]

All right, you want to talk about remigration?

[Rachel Lindsay]

I guess we have to. Can we play the Kristi Noem dog killing whore? President Trump wrote on Thursday, quote, only reverse migration can fully cure this situation. On Friday, DHS posted, quote, re migration. Now, as you probably know, this term has been used in different situations, but including by the far right in Europe to call for the mass deportation of non white immigrants. How specific specifically does the Trump administration define remigration?

[Van Lathan]

I apologize for calling Kristy Nome a whore. And let me tell you why. There's nothing wrong with being a whore. Sex work has existed for a long time. I don't want to use whore as a pejorative. Dog killing bitch. Bitch is good.

[Rachel Lindsay]

I'll say bitch.

[Van Lathan]

You want to say bitch.

[Rachel Lindsay]

I'll say bitch.

[Van Lathan]

Dog killing bitch. But see, even bitch is kind of a dog. And she's, I don't want to put her in like, she's cool. Dogs are cool. Bitches are cool. Bitches are good.

[Donnie]

Fine.

[Rachel Lindsay]

I'll call her a demon.

[Van Lathan]

Dog killing demon. That's dkg. Dkd. Okay. Dkd. I don't even know. Okay. Remigration. Go ahead.

[Rachel Lindsay]

It's okay. Well, President Trump has been working towards cleaning up the mess that Joe Biden left us ever since he came into the White House. But how do you define that word? Secretary Nome Biden 15 well, first of all, we have criminal illegal aliens we've been targeting since day one. We have removed millions of people from this country already just in the few short months that President Trump has been president, by making sure we're going after criminal illegal aliens that are murderers, rapists and criminals and getting them out of our country, bringing them to justice, and then encouraging people to go home. If you're here illegally and breaking our laws, you can leave now and you may get the opportunity to come back someday. But if you wait until we detain you and we will deport you and you'll never get the chance to come back to America, never answers the question on what remigration is and why the president used it and what it means. I could be. I could lead Homeland Security of Kristi Noemkin because all I have to do is blame things on the Biden administration and talk about criminal, illegal immigrants. That's it. That's all. That's it. And the whole Meet the Press interview, that's all she said. That was a response to everything. Everything went back to being the fault of the Biden administration and removing illegal immigrants that are criminals out of this country. Talking points. That's it. We could all do it. We could all do it. Just keep saying the same things over and over again. Re migration. I personally was not familiar with this term until it started becoming. Until, well, President Trump put it out there. Were you?

[Van Lathan]

I'd heard before.

[Rachel Lindsay]

So for those of you guys who don't know, maybe you do know. But remigration is means return to home in Latin. Historically, it's just been used simply because it's a voluntary returning to the place of origin. Right. You're going back home. We've seen it used in the past when people who maybe have left a country for a political or a social reason, they decide to come back to migrate back home. That's all. It was a descriptive use. It was a neutral term. And then what happens sometimes with the far right with certain words? They take a hold of a word and they use it as a part of their political propaganda. So around the 2010s, re migration started being used by the far right, particularly with white nationalists in Europe and beyond that, not to describe a voluntary return per se, but to call for mass deportations or expulsion of immigrants for people out of their country. Yeah, it's been used for ethnic cleansing at this point, and President Trump has now used it for America, which is interesting in light of what's happening right now with immigration in this country, with what we just talked about, with the disregard of lives of people of different countries or for. They're saying that they're using it for drug reasons, but we know that they're using it for other reasons. And now it is being popularized. And when asked specifically, specifically about it and what it means and how dangerous is where she was trying to go with it of the president using a term like this. Kristi Noem wouldn't answer the question at all.

[Van Lathan]

So what a great breakdown. Americans have a choice. And is the choice. It's not a scary choice at all. It's not fearful choice. This is the choice. Americans have a choice. This is all Americans not talking about black Americans, gay Americans, white Americans, Latino Americans, all Americans. You have a choice to believe the magician or to believe the information. What does a magician do? That's what I love about magic.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Do you like magic?

[Van Lathan]

I do like magic.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Okay.

[Van Lathan]

What a magician does is he goes, hey, I'm gonna make this disappear. And the way that he does it is to distract you without you knowing, you know? Distract you without you knowing. Like, sometimes they use all different types of tactics. He looks away, then you look away. Next thing you know, but you still get exhilarated by the trick because you want to believe that the magic is real or you like the feeling of not knowing. The magic trick that's happening right now is a very simple one. There's a reason why all of this is happening, a real reason. The reason why all of this is happening is because your economy, your government, everything that you eat, everywhere that you go, is being taken over by a group of people who want to dictate how they extract money from you. Your enemy is not the Latino brother selling oranges on the corner. That's not your enemy. Your enemy is the guy building the AI data center right next to your house. Your enemy is the person imposing a regressive tax on you. Your enemy is the person that is levying attacks on you to fund their lifestyle, the concentration of wealth and power into the hands of people who don't give a fuck what happens to you. The people that want to harvest your data, that want to harvest your rage, that want to harvest your emotions, those are the people that are your enemies, and those are the same ones that have always been. What it used to be was that those people would give you something in return for exploiting you. They give you a decent mortgage. They give you a decent car. They give you what you thought was a decent life. And then they would call it the American dream. And you would be like, you know what? I can sign up for that deal. But you know what happened about 20 or 30 years ago? They said, fuck them. They said, fuck it. They've just done it. They've got, like, Mike, you know, they've seen all of the commercials. We've subdued them enough to where we could just take it and not give them anything. We could just harvest all of their work and not do anything about it. We got them. We've put enough. They watch enough Disney. We. They're. They're us now. They're them and all of their progeny. They're going to believe what we say. Fuck it. So let's do this now. So we're going to do this. This is what we're going to do now. Now we're going to just plainly and clearly do everything we're going to fund, throw all of this money into the politics. Citizens United. Corporations are people, too. Hey, corporations are people, too. You are a person walking down the street in a hoodie and some guy might come up to you and kill you. Nothing you can do about it. But God damn it. General election needs to say in the election. They have to have a say. It's only fair if they get a say. Oh, my God. What happens if Microsoft doesn't have a say in our next election? Jesus Christ, what then? What now? Like, fuck you not getting killed by the police. What the fuck happens if Facebook can't give as much money to whomever they choose in an election? So they make corporations people. They make you less of a person. But not just politically. In everything else, the pandemic comes. You're in your house for four years not being able to make any money. All of the fucking billionaires get crazy wealthy. Then they buy up every single media organization. They own all of them. They own your favorite NBA team. They own, they own, they own, they own you. Your entire everything is for them. Then when you look up and you go, what's in it for me? They go, ha, ha, brown person, here's your problem. Don't look at what we're doing. Don't look at how we've rigged the economy. Don't look at how we've rigged the laws, changed everything. The environmental standards. You're running, you're coughing. Die. Don't worry about that. That is the problem of this person. Or a black person or a trans person. You have a choice whether or not you want to believe in what's happening to you or whether or not you want to put all of your stock in the magic, magic trick. Here's the difference. The penalty for getting it wrong is death. The penalty for making a wrong decision. You die. They poison your water. They throw your kids in jail. That's the penalty for making the wrong decision. So you can choose to believe that the source of all of America's dysfunction has to do with somebody that came here from Mexico. Or you can believe the reality that these people don't give a fuck about you and never have and you can hold them to account. Your choice.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Yeah. Well said.

[Van Lathan]

All right. This episode is brought to you by Hyundai. The Hyundai getaway sales event is on now with awesome deals on most of their popular models, including adventure ready SUVs. Like the Hyundai Santa Fe and Santa Fe Hybrid. There's also the stylish Elantra, packed with the latest tech. Or go electric with the Ioniq 5 or Ioniq 6. Visit HyundaiUSA.com or call 562-314-4603 for more details. Offers in January 5, 2026 this episode.

[Donnie]

Is brought to you by the Home Depot. Black Friday Savings are here at the Home Depot, which means it's time to stock up on new additions to your collection. And right now, when you buy a select battery kit from one of our top brands, like Ryobi or Milwaukee, you'll get a select tool from that same brand for free. So check out the best deals of the season and get top brand tools you'll use for projects all year long. Black Friday Savings happening now at the Home Depot. Limit 1 per transaction exclusions apply. Full eligible tool list in store and online.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Let's talk about problematic white people.

[Van Lathan]

Let's do it. Is this the. What is this the Danish?

[Rachel Lindsay]

Did you watch it?

[Van Lathan]

I watched a little bit.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Okay. I don't wanna say. I don't wanna ask you that. If you want.

[Van Lathan]

I watched a little bit of it. Donnie.

[Donnie]

Yeah. Let's get into this deception. A Dallas woman named Onyeki. Okay, let me do that again. It's Onyeka. Onyeka.

[Rachel Lindsay]

It's okay. She doesn't pronounce her name apparently right either, so it's okay.

[Van Lathan]

Donnie, say her name again.

[Donnie]

Okay. A Dallas woman named Onyeka. Ehi, look how much.

[Van Lathan]

Look how we've been colonized. We can't even say our names.

[Donnie]

Yes.

[Van Lathan]

We can't even say our names, man. They took our names from us. I bet if her name was Erica, you could say it, but her name is Onyeka.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Onyeka.

[Van Lathan]

Onyeka. And you can't even say. You can't even speak your own language. Boy, look at you. Donnie.

[Donnie]

She was also on the Bachelor, but this is unrelated.

[Rachel Lindsay]

That has nothing to do. Thank you, Donnie. Has nothing to do with anything.

[Van Lathan]

Letting that be known. These are your people. These are your people. What the fuck is going on? These are the type, because you know.

[Rachel Lindsay]

What is the type of what?

[Van Lathan]

Bachelor has a type of Donnie.

[Donnie]

All right. Yeah. She released this 25 part series on TikTok that's been called the Danish Deception where she describes this whirlwind romance with her handsome Danish suitor who she met on a trip. Let's hear a little bit of her, describe their first meeting.

[Rachel Lindsay]

And we're laying in daybeds kind of off to the side, minding our own business, sipping mojitos. And I look up and I think, see this very attractive man. And the first thing that came to my mind was this man looks like he is walking straight out of a Calvin Klein ad. And I'm telling you guys, six, three, blonde hair, blue eyes, chiseled skin, so tan, muscles everywhere. I. I was definitely taken aback. And I feel like it takes a lot for me to really double take a man just based on his looks like that. And 100%, I was just checked in. I was a little bit just in awe. I didn't even realize that he was like, with a friend at first. And so I'm still minding my own business, keeping it chill. And he looks over at me and he says, how are the drinks?

[Van Lathan]

Oh, no, that's right.

[Rachel Lindsay]

I said, the drinks are wonderful. We're just sipping mojito. Said, should I guess all around? And I said, absolutely. Number one, he's cute. Number two, who wants mojito? So basically we got around the drinks and we're sipping our drinks and we just start small talking. And I asked them where they're from and okay, yeah, cut it off, cut it, cut it off. Thank you, Donnie. Thank you, Donnie. They are eating her ass up on.

[Van Lathan]

The Internet to say, okay, cool.

[Rachel Lindsay]

They are. And particularly black women. To which. And we should put this up in post. To which. It's so bad for her right now. Right now. I don't know if you're familiar with Risa Tisa, who had a series on.

[Van Lathan]

We talked about it on here a little bit.

[Rachel Lindsay]

No, because I, I never watched it.

[Van Lathan]

Okay, watch it though. I did.

[Rachel Lindsay]

I'm going back and watching it now. It's a 50 part series. It's called why the Fuck who the.

[Van Lathan]

Fuck did I marry? 50 parts.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Who the Fuck Did I Marry? Onyeka's is like 25 ish. But Risa Disa, now signed by CAA, they're turning it into a whole thing. And a lot of people are like, okay, Onyeka thought that she was going to have her Risa Tisa moment. She thought that people are going to embrace her, support her. And I'm sure she is getting some of that. But the majority of it is holding her accountable and being like, girl, you need to look in the mirror and realize some things because there's differences, right? And I'm still in the Risatisa thing. But the main thing is, one, Reesatista's man was black. And two, she takes a lot of accountability throughout it of saying I told y' all I was dumb. I told y' all I ignored the red flags. But. And then she keeps going, that's not Inyeka. There's a lot of excuses along the way. So I want some of the highlights of Anjeka's Danish deception. A lot of people were bothered too, that throughout the whole thing, she does get emotional at some parts. But she's smiling, she seems very eager. She mentions Risa Tisa. She formats it in the same way where people were like, you thought that this was going to turn into a CA getting signed by an agency. And it's still made for her. Maybe it'll be a micro drama, I don't know, but. But she seemed to take joy in it. So here's some of the highlights. Okay, you got the main part. Her first impression of this man, the way that she described him immediately upon meeting him. He tells her that he is from a royal bloodline and that he has competed in the Olympics and that he owns multiple properties in Denmark. Onyeka is an accountant and a realtor. At no time does she look or verify any of this information up within meeting each other. She goes home to Dallas. He's in Denmark. They meet back up within a month. Upon our first meeting, she tells him that she loves him. He does not reciprocate it. Matter of fact, when they go eat at a restaurant to which, you know, he's paying for the restaurant, he's in this nice hotel, he's offering to buy her a bag.

[Van Lathan]

So he's showing the.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Initially, yes, he's showing the tour.

[Van Lathan]

He's not showing. He matches up with it, but he's showing it.

[Rachel Lindsay]

The first time of. Of them meeting after, you know, she met him in Croatia, so they're in Monaco, and he's showering her, takes her to a work conference, all these things. So it's kind of matching up.

[Van Lathan]

Did he. Ha, ha, ha ha, hit that ass.

[Rachel Lindsay]

As soon as she landed? To which she says, sorry, mom and dad, but when they go eat at a restaurant, she goes up to go to the bathroom, and the next thing she knows, she's on the stairs, knocked out, blood pouring from her head. And because she was on the way to the bathroom, she also urinates all over herself. And he's there to be there. He's there to be there with her. And he's like, do you have a history of having seizures? And she's like, no, never. And he's like, you've been having seizures?

[Donnie]

Odd.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Never has one after that. Never had. Had One before that. But he comes to her rescue and on the way to the hospital says, I love you too. It's all suspicious, okay, all suspicious. A couple of other things. He then, immediately after this trip, tells her that he is having trouble with transferring money from his business to his personal account. He's asked his dad for money. His dad says, no, you need to do it on his own. He's like, can I just borrow $6,000? And she's like, sure, right? I'm not even gonna fault her for the initial lend, right? Cause I have a friend who always is like, you got one time to ask me for money. I'm trying to give her some. Something, right? I'm trying to give her something like. He's like, oh, I'll give it back to you, whatever. Of course, what happens? Doesn't give it back. Continues to ask her for money. Ends up getting about $30,000 for her. Keeps asking for more money, has an excuse for everything. She eventually marries this man. This is all less than a year, like less than six months. Marries her, comes to live in Dallas with her. Keeps having excuses as to why he can't get money, has still not paid her anything back. She's loaning him money. They're traveling across the world. She's putting it on her credit cards, all this stuff. She finds out that he owes $300,000 in taxes. He asked her money for that. Still giving her money, still traveling on trips. He tells her, you know what, you should, you're so stressed out, you should quit your job. She quits her job, her six figure paying job. She's an accountant and does well in realty as a realtor on the side. Quits her job, says he takes care of her, take care of her. Find out he has a gap. Finds out he has a gambling addiction. Finds out from a friend that he owes that friend's husband $200,000 in cryptocurrency.

[Van Lathan]

Daily fantasy.

[Rachel Lindsay]

She decides to get him help because he's her husband. Gets her help. It's crypto. Gets her help because of, you know, they're married. Gets them into gambling. Gamblers Anonymous, whatever it's called. Finds out he's still gambling. Long story short, finds out he has 34 cents in his bank account. Still stays with them. They're still traveling. She, they're still planning for a wedding because they're secretly married, by the way.

[Van Lathan]

Nobody knew.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Nobody knew. Still planning for a wedding. Her friend, whose husband who loans from all that money, 200,000, hires a PI. She finds out that he never went to the Olympics, that he never lived in Denmark in the home that she did. Like they, she reversed Google Images. Whatever the picture, he said, it's like someplace in a totally different country. Learns that he owes her mom $10,000 that she gave them to pay for their mother. Her mother.

[Van Lathan]

He asked for the $10,000 for the.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Mother without the mother. Says, I'm going to pay for the wedding. He's like, I'm going to pay you back. Because, right, because they're engaged, but they're not telling people that they're actually really married. So they're going to have a white wedding and they're going to have a Nigerian wedding. She confronts him again over his gambling. He leaves her. And not one point does she leave him. He's like, you know what? I'm sick of you not trusting me too much. I'm gonna leave you. He leaves her. She finds out that not only does he owe the $200,000 to the friend, you know, the 30 plus thousand what he owes her, he borrowed money from her sister, he borrowed more money from her parents, he borrowed money from her cousins, he borrowed money from her co workers, he borrowed money from her friends. And not one of them told her. He was like, oh, my money's tied up in Denmark. I'm trying to buy her this nice car. I'm trying to buy myself an Aston Martin. Never. Not when they didn't see the car, when they didn't see the gifts. Still never questioned it. Never told her he borrows money. This is the part you're gonna love the best. He borrows money from. They befriend this Danish couple, right? Cause he's Danish in Dallas, and they're like, oh, we don't meet that many Danish people. Befriends them. That guy owes. She finds out that guy gave him $30,000 for an investment. She confronts him and she's like, why did you never tell me that he took this money from you? And he says to her, the Danish man says, well, I wanna get this way. He said, well, Onyeka, Onyeka, you're Nigerian. That's the scamming capital of the world. I didn't know if you were in on it.

[Van Lathan]

Show me.

[Rachel Lindsay]

And she doesn't even get upset. She goes on to explain in this part series of how it's unfortunate that that's a stereotype that Nigerians have. Not even mad about the racism that's thrown at her. Just as like that's an unfortunate thing that sometimes is placed on Nigerians. All this to say. She comes on to tell her story. She never says his name. She never gives a description other than blonde haired, blue eyed, but says that she's doing this so he doesn't scam other women and that she hopes there aren't other victims out there to which more has come out. He's in Tulum scamming other women right now. But people are like, listen, Anyeka, it's clear that he got away with all of this. This is black women saying this. This man got away with all of this because he was your perfect white man. You thought that you had made it. You were proud despite knowing all these things, how much he had in his bank account, the addiction that he had stolen from your friend, that you were living a false life on your credit and on money that he didn't have because at the end of the day, you had the white man that you always wanted. There are people, there are black men commenting on it, saying, if this had been a black man, he would have never gotten this far with you. It's this because he was white, because he was Danish, he was able to get away with so much and able to basically take advantage of you and your entire network of people. She's come on saying that black women are blaming her. She's going after black women. She mad at black women. Black women aren't being fair to her. Black women are blaming her and all of this. I think she's an idiot.

[Donnie]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

Now see, can I say something? How can I ask you a question? How toxic am I able to get in my response?

[Rachel Lindsay]

You have to get very toxic because this is a toxic situation.

[Van Lathan]

So I have a couple of responses. Number one, there's one difference between this and Risa Tisa is the way Risa Tisa looks and the way that this woman looks, okay? And I'll tell you why. When Risa Tisa got scammed, there were probably a lot of people who reflexively looked at Risa Tisa and went, I could see how she could get scammed. I could see how she. This is not me dissing anyone, okay? But they look at it and they go, I can see how she could get scammed. This is somebody who in our society would be looking for love and therefore is very vulnerable to someone fucking with her emotions.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Okay?

[Van Lathan]

Okay. When you look at this lady, you look at someone who is conventionally attractive and that's playing against her. Number one, it's playing against her because it's making her look like somebody who did not have to go through this and she's being judged partly because the difference here, she's being judged partly on the fact that she looks like someone who is reaching for something else, is reaching for some whiteness, is reaching for something out of the ordinary. Because she looks to me like a woman who would not be in, I guess, the vulnerable or desperate situation that other women that have gone through this look like. She's not overweight. She's not what we look at and say. These are the people that are struggling to find a mate. She is someone who looks like she's signing up for this for some other reason. That's the first thing. The second thing is we just have a problem calling women morons. We do. Like, I. It feels. It feels. Not you, but it feels uncomfortable for me to look at her. I can see that and go, she's a moron. Moronic. Moronical. Moronicalness. Moronicity. Like true idiot. True fucking idiot. All of this stuff. She glamoured herself. He didn't even have to do nothing.

[Rachel Lindsay]

He really did.

[Van Lathan]

He just like, walked into the room as Thor, a Norse God, and laid the hammer down and harvested the goods. I feel nothing.

[Rachel Lindsay]

I don't.

[Van Lathan]

The only thing that I wish is that he's made whole now.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Van.

[Van Lathan]

I hope my. I hope the best for him because I gotta appreciate the work. Here's the deal. If what works, this is what I'll say to all of the women out here. If you gonna get scammed, it's better to get scammed by a broken. Because the only thing we gonna get out of it normally is like, a spot on the couch. When.

[Rachel Lindsay]

That's not true.

[Van Lathan]

When a brother scams you, you get. You might have to co. Sign for a car. You might have to co. Sign for a car. Spot on the couch. This guy is gonna take the couch, take the couch company and then take the whole house. But that's what you get for fucking around with, like, they've been doing this for thousands of years, okay? This ain't nothing different than what happened to her people a long time ago. And she signed back up for it. I've never.

[Rachel Lindsay]

They all did.

[Van Lathan]

Ever. She took him to the village, everyone to his village.

[Rachel Lindsay]

To her village in Nigeria for her grandmother's funeral. There is video. Donnie, please put it up. There is video of him.

[Van Lathan]

Show me the video.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Dancing around. There is video of him dancing around in Nigerian attire in Nigeria. He went to the village. I want to see. So I'm sure he scammed some of them too. And we just. Everywhere he went, he was scamming folks. He infiltrated her circle. And so it's not even just her. It's almost as if everybody around her was intoxicated by his whiteness. Where they chose not to question a thing.

[Van Lathan]

Do you know why? Because he looks like the picture of world success.

[Rachel Lindsay]

He looks evil.

[Van Lathan]

He's tall. He's beautiful. He's the kind of guy. Let me walk in there and tell somebody I'm an ex Olympian. Let me. Let me. Let me walk in there.

[Rachel Lindsay]

That's what black men.

[Van Lathan]

You know what I'm saying? Let me walk in there and tell somebody. I don't know if y' all know about.

[Rachel Lindsay]

She would have been like.

[Van Lathan]

She been. Let's see what this nigga did in the Olympics. They don't let titties in the Olympics. Like what? Let me.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Donnie, while you're searching for it. Cause I got it. You gotta see. He's dancing around. He got money in his hand.

[Van Lathan]

He was doing the cultural dances.

[Rachel Lindsay]

But this is what I have to say to Anyeka and women like her.

[Van Lathan]

Bring her on the podcast.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Say it to her face more than happy. I will DM her and reach out. But we gotta have an honest conversation because she's done a couple of follow up videos where she's either explaining some of the things that maybe the holes in her story where she takes an entire video to blame black women problem and that she's in therapy. Right? Which I say good for you. But therapy only works if you're honest with yourself. And what I need Onyeka to understand. And this. And I see that you have not worked on this yet because you put up an entire video where you are blaming black people. Let's pause for the.

[Van Lathan]

For the woman in the village.

[Rachel Lindsay]

That's her father.

[Van Lathan]

I didn't think about some burner boy.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Look at him.

[Van Lathan]

Man. You better put that wood skit on. You better put that burner boy on. I'm fucking with him. That shit. Dunderhead. It's like she's supposed. That's supposed to happen to her. Like that's. I'm serious.

[Rachel Lindsay]

That's true. I'll say that too.

[Van Lathan]

It's a crime to let a sucker keep that going.

[Rachel Lindsay]

The only way therapy works is if you are honest with yourself. And the fact that good you're getting the help that you need but that you're still blaming black women for calling you out about the fact that you glorify and it's the praise that you have for a white man. Which is why you were so susceptible to this, you were blinded by this.

[Van Lathan]

So.

[Rachel Lindsay]

And there have been other people who've come out because she is, I will say, very pride. Has a lot of pride about being Nigerian. She's a part of a Nigerian community in Dallas. But there have been people who have come out that are also a part of that.

[Van Lathan]

She has to feel the sting.

[Rachel Lindsay]

There are people that are part of that organization who are like, she and her sister. I think her sister is either. They're in the videos with her with the white man as well.

[Van Lathan]

If she felt the stage, this wouldn't happen.

[Rachel Lindsay]

She surrounds herself with. The people in the organization are like, we knew, but she's not close with us. All her friends are majority white. So nobody was telling her, hey, we kind of see what's going on. Listen, Onyeka, this is all I'll say. You have got to realize how problematic it is that you glorify and praise whiteness. You need to self reflect why you were so proud. Because honestly, you would have never left this man. This man had to leave you. You're the prize for you was having the white man. It didn't matter the addiction. It didn't matter that there were pennies in his bank account. It didn't matter the lies. It didn't matter that he had deceived one of your best friends. As long as you had this white man on your side, you were okay. And that's the question that you need to ask yourself in therapy. And that's what you really need to break down, because it will happen to you again until you can figure out why you are so drunk off whiteness. Hypnotized, intoxicated by the white, by the whites.

[Van Lathan]

Donnie, bring him up again. That's very, very, very well delivered. Bring him up again. Is he even cold like that? But no, no. All jokes aside, I'm not in any.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Way, shape or form, like, attractive.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah. Is he bringing.

[Rachel Lindsay]

No, he looks easy.

[Van Lathan]

Bring him up again. Bring him up again. Is he. He in good shape, but is he even. I don't feel like he even cold.

[Rachel Lindsay]

We need to see this is what they're saying.

[Van Lathan]

I don't feel like he even cold.

[Rachel Lindsay]

They said Calvin Klein model.

[Van Lathan]

Where I was, I was expecting to see like a Chris Hemsworth, Ryan Gosling type. I mean, they cold, right?

[Rachel Lindsay]

He said he has blonde hair and blue eyes.

[Van Lathan]

Not even cold like that, bro. He. Look, I'm gonna be honest with you. You shout out to him, he looked like a backup safety. That's like, you know what I mean? He looked like.

[Rachel Lindsay]

That's to me, he looks a little gremlinish.

[Van Lathan]

That's like a Craig Stilts. Man, shout out, Craig Stz. Man, shoot. Craig St. Will blow your ass up. You come over that middle man. Listen, congratulations, lsu. Lane Kiffin. But. But he not even cold like that. That's how you know she worshiping it. That's how you know. Cause I'm seeing. I'm gonna say this as well, and this is not gonna go over well. And it is what it is. Everybody can date who they wanna date and love who they wanna love. We talked about this. I see Klay Thompson doing it right.

[Rachel Lindsay]

What does that have to do with it?

[Van Lathan]

It's the same. I see Klay Thompson doing it right? Klay Thompson said, we in this shit. I'm taking it home. That's what Klay said.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Meg looks happy, and I'm happy for her.

[Van Lathan]

I see Klay Thompson doing it right. I see a couple. I see Klay Thompson doing it right. But, you know, I will say that the white girls that's being chosen now is different. It's not.

[Rachel Lindsay]

The white girls being chosen by who?

[Van Lathan]

By the athletes, man. It used to be. It used. In the 2000s and the 90s, the white girls, as the athletes, was choosing with. Now you starting to see.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Say it.

[Van Lathan]

I'm just saying, when you used to see a brother with a white girl back in the day, you used to be like, I mean, I wouldn't do it, but, you know. And now it's kind of like Cracker Barrel. Like, we gotta. We not. Let's move on. We not. I'm not downing anyone. I'm just saying that, like, now it's like some lunch ladies getting paid. That's all I'm saying. And I'm not. It's not a bad thing, because.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Are you saying because they just. They so want to be with somebody?

[Van Lathan]

I'm saying it's just changed.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Are they onyekas?

[Van Lathan]

I'm saying it's changed. I'm saying I look at the situation now, and I'm like, oh, and this is not a diss. I'm saying, oh, that's like a. But it used. You know, it may. You know what it might be? It might be that because the stigma is down and the stigma should go away, right? Because the stigma is down. Maybe people are just finding each other and you don't have to. But now I'm like, oh.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Donnie, this.

[Donnie]

Is a good transition. Athletes. Odell Beckham, he was on the Pivot podcast, and he had this to say about financial literacy. In the NFL, signing big contracts and whatnot.

[Van Lathan]

If I didn't have a dollar in my account right here today as we speak, I'm gonna be straight for the rest of my life. Yeah. No question, right? I don't think everybody is in that. And when you've sacrificed your whole life to get here, and you're like, Yeah, I played 10 years in the league, and I always explain this to people. I'm like, bro, you give somebody a five year, $100 million contract, right? What is it really? It's five years for 60. You're getting taxed. Do the math. That's 12 a year. You know that you have to spend, use, save, save, invest $12 million, flaunt.

[Rachel Lindsay]

A year just being real.

[Van Lathan]

I'm gonna buy a car. I'm. Give my mom a house. I'm gonna do. Everything costs money.

[Donnie]

So you.

[Van Lathan]

If you spending $4 million a year, that's really 40 million over five years, eight a year, you know, and now you.

[Rachel Lindsay]

That's 20 million.

[Van Lathan]

Breaking down the numbers, it's like, like, that's a five year span of where you're getting eight men. Can you make that last forever? Oh, and you always cut this off.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Did you hear it wrong the first time?

[Van Lathan]

I don't think I listen. Shut the up, bro. I respect you, man. That's LSU, that's LA. That's the whole nine. What the fuck is this nigga talking about?

[Rachel Lindsay]

Yeah, are you out of your mother sitting there like. They all sitting there like, hey, shout.

[Van Lathan]

Out to the Pippa podcast. They were supposed to let him cook. That's what they were supposed to do. That's good podcasting. They were supposed to let him cook. We ain't trying to hear that dumbass shit. Fuck that.

[Rachel Lindsay]

I just wish one person would have said so. You're telling me that 12 million a year.

[Van Lathan]

They were supposed to let him cook? Let me tell y' all something right now, man. I'm straight up telling you, brothers need better financial literacy. Here's the fucking exception. The exception is it's available.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Yes, it is available.

[Van Lathan]

Hearing that story in like, 1995, 2005, 2015, not even 2015. Really hearing that story in years past, you understood it. You understood it because those were the first of those stories that we've heard, right? To all of y' all brothers out there getting money, really getting money, first of all, we proud of you. You've done something that's hard to do. You've broken through the glass. Not even glass ceiling in America to where a black man can really earn. It is your responsibility not to be on a podcast 10 years from now talking about, well, $12 million ain't enough. It's your responsibility. It's your responsibility not to be on a podcast talking about how fast $12 million goes. I don't bullsh. I don't fucking believe it. I know that there are a lot of temptations to go out there and blow that much money. I get it. I know that there are a lot of ways that you can do it, but ain't nobody trying to hear you fucking cry about that.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Well, he's not crying. He says that if he didn't make another dollar. I believe the first thing he says, if he didn't make another dollar, he would be fine.

[Van Lathan]

The whole story of Let me explain to you how easily it goes. It's sure the entire story of let to the people out here that's really getting to it, man. We want and need y' all to keep getting to it. We do. As a community, we need to have wealth that can travel generations. We need to consolidate wealth. We need people to be able to take this money and turn it into useful product for not just the black community, but for themselves, so that we can readjust the economics. Yeah, but we need them to care about doing that. If Odell Beckham never did anything else but stayed rich, seriously, if he never did anything else but stayed rich, that's a win for his community. That's a win. Right now. I want him to do more. I want him to do more in terms of educating himself. I want him to do more in terms of what he thinks is important. Of course, But I'm not in somebody's head. And not everybody has the same priorities. Right. The people that have financial priorities that I don't have, they are empowering people in a way that I'm not. Because I don't wake up in the morning thinking about how could I make an extra $1500, $1000, 200,000? I make a. I make good money. So I am happy with that. I'm not somebody that goes out taking every opportunity to make every buck I can. But the people that are doing that, as much as we don't want to talk about it, as much as capitalism has kneecapped us, that is something that's very important in America to be well resourced. Because when I want to do something and I want to put my money with somebody else's money to do it, there needs to be people that you can go to to do that type of thing. So, you know, having said all of that, like, grow everybody, man, everybody out here, grow the fuck up. These stories of all of this stuff. You think that people in this economy right now, that at the top of it is circular and not even real? You think people need to hear you on this bitch talking about how fast $12 million going grow, man? Like, fucking. What the fuck is this bullshit?

[Rachel Lindsay]

I was wondering what your take was, because I was like, why are we listening to you talk about this right now? Like, what? Like, as I was listening to him talk, I was like, what are you trying to say? Or do you want people to feel sorry for you? What. What's the point of this conversation? I really did not understand. And then I thought there was going to be more. And then the next thing I know, he's at what calls him a totally different topic.

[Van Lathan]

That's why I say, hey, as. So you don't just wake up and have the chain presented to you, right? You don't just wake up. The chain just don't appear. The big chain or whatever it is, the car, the clothes, they don't just appear. You know what you have to do to get the best chain and the best car and the best clothes, Even the best chick. What do y' all have to do? What has to happen. Grinding is one thing, but what else do you have to do to get all of that stuff? Does anybody know? Discipline is another one. But what else do you have to do to get all of that stuff? To get the best change, the best.

[Rachel Lindsay]

House, you gotta spend money.

[Van Lathan]

You have to research. You have to research, guys. You have to ask around what makes a good quality diamond. You have to. You have to know the car. You have to go talk to the guy about the car. You have to research. You have to do.

[Rachel Lindsay]

That's not true.

[Van Lathan]

That is absolutely true. You have to say, so somebody has a chain and you say, hey, where'd you get that? And they, I got a guy. Well, what kind of of. This guy got this. This guy got that. You have to ask somebody. You have to ask somebody.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Have you not seen the people who literally get. Get money? And then we'll just go out and buy. They won't ask a thing. There's no research from where. They just go out and buy.

[Van Lathan]

Rachel. Rachel, from where? Okay, okay, like from where?

[Rachel Lindsay]

You can't just go to a jewelry store and buy. What's a jewelry store? Okay, I'll do. I'll give you an example. Like if I'm. If I'm a Houston athlete, right? I'm gonna go to Johnny, whatever his name, whatever it says. Cause I've seen it.

[Van Lathan]

Exactly.

[Rachel Lindsay]

But that's not research. What I'm saying, what I'm telling you.

[Van Lathan]

Is you have to, like, there's no.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Research in I want a G wagon, I'm gonna go buy G wagon. Like, there's no research. I guess that's what I'm saying is frivolously can spend money.

[Van Lathan]

You can frivolously spend money, but you have to endeavor into the things you are spending money on. You have to look at different houses, you have to look at different cars. You have to spend brain power asking yourself, okay, because you go to Johnny Dang, all right? You go to Johnny Dang, you might. You might buy the diamonds. Somebody else might have a different diamond guy in Atlanta. All of this, by the way, this is stuff that I know from my time at tmz there is for a lot of these people, even if it's a small degree of effort, even if it's a little bit of effort, there's effort put into all of this stuff. There's effort put into being fly, there's effort put into stunting, there's effort put into all of this. What I'm saying is all of this effort to me also goes along with getting information on all of this stuff. I'm saying that this is from big lame ass. Put that same type of effort into staying rich. Put that same type of effort into other things that are going. That's going to. You still want to be buying chains in your 50s, right? And you can be. You still want to be buying watches in your 50s, right? And you can be. Put that much effort, even if it's just a little bit, even if it's the same little bit that it took to care about Johnny Dang, to care about whoever you gonna buy your G wagon from, to care about all. Even if it's just that much. Put just that much into keeping and growing your wealth in some different way. So you not on a podcast in 10 years talking about how fast 12 fucking million dollars goes.

[Rachel Lindsay]

I agree with you. I think my point to the research thing I'm saying is I think the reason that a lot of these guys do get caught up or, you know, like you watch a 30 for 30 broke or something like that, or even people I know from UT is because they aren't doing the research. They just think, I gotta have the car, the chain, this, and they will spend money without anything, without maybe getting a better deal, without like just the first thing overspending throwing their money at it without the research. And that's another reason it goes by fast. I'm agreeing with what you're saying. I'm just saying. Or the. Like, the sentiment behind it. I'm just saying I think what becomes so problematic is not now, but when you go back and like, the guys. I mean, people still do it now, but you know what I mean? When it was more problematic, they were throwing their money at anything without any research. Like, I want a house in that neighborhood. I'm gonna buy that house.

[Van Lathan]

We're talking about two different things, right? We're talking past each other. What I'm saying is the same amount, you. You got the house, you want the house, right? You have to look up the house. Somebody had to bring you the house. What I'm saying is don't let the research. Don't let your curiosity, Curiosity, maybe is a better word, stop at the house itself. Your curiosity should extend to the price of the house, to the price of the houses in the neighborhood, to where that neighborhood's going to be in five years. Where that neighborhood was, was five years before. All of this stuff, by the way, is not stuff that has been given to us. This is information that has been purposefully, Purposefully, purposefully, financial literacy kept from this group of guys so that they can be harvested, so that they can be the workhorses for somebody else's capitalistic dream. I get that. But I'm telling you right now, it's people out there. We're having these conversations, but you gotta be serious about it.

[Rachel Lindsay]

There's also programs. There's rookie programs. There's rookie seminars. As soon as you get into the NFL. I don't know if those are the best or what, but I'm just saying when you get there, there are seminars about financial.

[Van Lathan]

L. This is not me saying.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Provided by the NFL.

[Van Lathan]

This is not me saying that these guys don't have barracudas all around, that they're not people trying to take advantage of them. What I'm saying is that I'm sick of hearing about all the people trying to take advantage of them. And what we need to be hearing about now is the Michael Finleys of the world, all right? The guys who have taken their money and made money with the. We need to be hearing those stories, and we need to do a better job here in black media and on higher learning, of giving people a different type of blueprint so that somebody is not sitting on a podcast making a fucking fool of themselves, talking about how $12 million ain't enough. It is. It's enough.

[Rachel Lindsay]

It's enough.

[Van Lathan]

$12 million is enough. It's enough.

[Rachel Lindsay]

He does say just to give credit. He does say he doesn't need to make another dollar and he'd be fine. Yeah, but he should be. Yes, but. Yes. I just want to give that credit. He's not saying. He. Yeah, he's.

[Van Lathan]

No, no, it's not going fast. I. Look, that's. That's. That. That takes all his power away. It's not going fast. You're going fast. It's not the. It, it's the you.

[Rachel Lindsay]

True.

[Van Lathan]

Okay, you're going fast. Slow down. But, boy, was you a dog for that. Purple and gold, though. Catch the ball.

[Rachel Lindsay]

I'm sorry? Thought Omega Sci Fi.

[Van Lathan]

Catch. Catch the ball. One hand. Did you see the. The. The cute turkey?

[Rachel Lindsay]

Oh, sorry. I thought you were going to talk about the catch in the Commander Sc. I thought that's what you were talking about.

[Van Lathan]

I mean, but, like.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Oh, yes, I saw the. I saw the. I saw the. I saw the Q turkey. It was beautiful.

[Van Lathan]

By the way, what's with you and this. This trolling me over the body. Classic. What's going on?

[Rachel Lindsay]

Oh, your response was brutal.

[Van Lathan]

It was brutal.

[Rachel Lindsay]

And because of that, that. Don't ever talk about the D9, because that's my. If I can't talk about HBCUs, you can't talk about the D9.

[Van Lathan]

Let's have it out. Let's have it out right now.

[Rachel Lindsay]

You can't talk about it.

[Van Lathan]

What do you think the difference is?

[Rachel Lindsay]

Because you didn't go through a process.

[Van Lathan]

I didn't.

[Rachel Lindsay]

You don't understand it. You're not in it.

[Van Lathan]

I'm not.

[Rachel Lindsay]

You're just a spectator.

[Van Lathan]

I'm on the side.

[Rachel Lindsay]

You're just a wannabe.

[Van Lathan]

Wannabe.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Because I could be like, my sister went to hbcu.

[Van Lathan]

I was.

[Rachel Lindsay]

I was always around.

[Van Lathan]

Here's the only. What's hb? Did they have a band? Exactly. So. So this. So this is. This is. Hold on, hold on.

[Rachel Lindsay]

My parents. Can I just say this, though? This is the only credibility I'll give myself for that. Every year, my parents took us to the Gremlin Prairie View game.

[Van Lathan]

Okay?

[Rachel Lindsay]

So every year we were at the Cotton Pole until it just got crazy. The game started getting crazy, huh? Well, no, they started shooting and everything. Like, it was like.

[Van Lathan]

Jesus, Rachel, you're not making it sound like.

[Rachel Lindsay]

No, I'm just saying my. We were kids. Sorry. We were kids. Sorry.

[Van Lathan]

Wait. Okay, so wait a second.

[Rachel Lindsay]

I'm not going to Feel any kind.

[Van Lathan]

Of way about y' all went to the game until the game was too nigger and y' all had to stop.

[Rachel Lindsay]

You shouldn't even call it that. Like they were shooting. They were shooting like the games.

[Van Lathan]

That's the day.

[Rachel Lindsay]

I don't know. I never saw the shooter.

[Van Lathan]

The day is mixed.

[Rachel Lindsay]

I never saw the shooter.

[Van Lathan]

That's who the day is.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Never saw the shooter. We used to go to the game every single year. But you had to stop. I grew up going to Battle of the Bands. I like. Okay. Shame on my parents for not wanting me to be at the games where they were shooting. Shame on my parents for that.

[Van Lathan]

Okay, so this is what I would say. I take. By the way, I never comment on the quality or the. I compliment. I comment on observable things about the D9.

[Rachel Lindsay]

So to give everybody background, this is what happened. VAM posted that with a bunch of.

[Van Lathan]

Laughing emojis that Southern beat Grambling in the body.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Southern's record was like what, 1 in 10 or something like that.

[Van Lathan]

We had won one game the whole.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Year and Gramlin had a winning record and Gramlin was winning the game. And then I turned changed after halftime show. And I didn't know realize it until I saw your post. So van post that Southern came back, beat Gramling with a bunch of laughing emojis. And I wrote under the comments, well, at least they won the halftime show.

[Van Lathan]

Grams won the halftime. Okay, so there are two things I have to say about this. I'll address the D9 thing as well. Two things I have to say about it. First of all, Gramlin are a bunch of fucking clowns. Wow. You're clowns.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Why?

[Van Lathan]

They're clowns.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Why would you say that Grambling are clowns?

[Van Lathan]

Why Gramlin? Grambling as a school and a football team of clowns.

[Rachel Lindsay]

You have to say more other than them just being like a rivalry.

[Van Lathan]

So Grambling. So this is what happened to Gramlin. I'm explaining to you the story of Grambling this year. Grambling came from north Louisiana, the piney woods of north Louisiana. From piney woods of north Louisiana, Grambling, proud school. Lots of tradition, got lots of history, got love for Grambling, right? They came from the. They traveled. This is. This is where Grambling is in the state up here. Grambling, Russ and Eric, they traveled all the way down to New Orleans, Louisiana, to play the Bayou Classic.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Classic.

[Van Lathan]

To get a foot put in their ass. Okay, so this is what Gramlin did. So they got in buses and, oh, man, we're going to the Bayou Classic. They get there, they have all this stuff. They enjoy New Orleans. They're going to Morrows. They're doing all of that stuff. And then you know what happened Saturday? They got a foot. Putting that ass.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Why are they clowns?

[Van Lathan]

That's what. That's what happened. Happens. They got a foot. This is what Southern did. Foot and ass. They're clowns because they traveled.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Let's talk about the halftime show.

[Van Lathan]

Okay.

[Rachel Lindsay]

That was what I. That was. To which you responded, first of all, what do we need?

[Van Lathan]

What we need? So this is what I said on.

[Rachel Lindsay]

How to terminate dei. We'll get back to you.

[Van Lathan]

I was like, this is a. This is a. You talking about. So Grambling clowns. First of all, you're a bunch of clowns. Love you. You lovable clowns. But wear the makeup. You lost the body. Classic. So one game Super Bowl.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Just the game, though.

[Van Lathan]

It's a one game super bowl for the entire reality. The whole cultural supremacy of Gram versus Southern. You lost clowns. All right. Secondly, you commented that they won the Battle of the Bands.

[Rachel Lindsay]

I believed they did because they brought out Glorilla. No.

[Van Lathan]

Okay, what. What else did you like that they did?

[Rachel Lindsay]

I liked that they. What was the song that they did? Keisha Cole love. Sorry, I did Keisha Cole Love. They did. Cause Southern did Disclosure. And I was like, why they playing this Neo song?

[Van Lathan]

See, here's the deal. It's really not about the songs that you play.

[Rachel Lindsay]

It's about when you.

[Van Lathan]

When the way that you play them, how the band sound and when they.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Play formations, precision instrument and the dance, all that stuff.

[Van Lathan]

It's about that. Right? So look, you can have your opinion, but what I'm saying is that when we talking about the Battle of the Bands. Remember on Drumline?

[Rachel Lindsay]

Of course.

[Van Lathan]

What did the other band do that wanted to win?

[Rachel Lindsay]

They brought out Petey Pablo.

[Van Lathan]

They brought out Petey Pablo. So. So when a band.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Y' all brought out Juvenile.

[Van Lathan]

What I'm saying, they brought out Petey Pablo. So what I'm saying is bringing out, like, Glorilla and all of that stuff. That's cool. Southern won the battle of the Bands. Gremlin bands have never been able to fuck with Southern bands, ever. The human jukebox. We juking that bitch up. Clowns. And this is what I would say. The difference between that and the D9 thing is this. I've been dis. I've been like this. I never stopped looking at the D9 stuff because the shooting got too bad, because it never stopped.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Because that's Not. That's not non applicable.

[Van Lathan]

There has been violence. But look, is. What I would say is like, I grew up around this. I grew up with. You can't help in Baton Rouge, but grow up around these. For these sororities and fraternities.

[Rachel Lindsay]

That's. But you're not. You can't help not of it. You didn't experience it. So you can't like the way that you really care.

[Van Lathan]

When the camp was in the Q's fought, I was there to watch the aka. I was there. When I was there. I went to all. I was there when the Deltas came back to campus. I was there. I was there. I was there when they. I was there when Gino wasn't even a person. Shout out to Gino. Gino was. Gino lost weight. Gino had a bald head. Gino called me, hey, hey, I'm in the back of the union. You got $5? I'm like, bro, you think this is healthy? He's like, yeah, come pick me up. I didn't ask you if it was healthy, nigga, take me to McDonald's. I picked Gino up back at the union. Gino running out, looking left and right, looking left and right, getting down back of the car. Drive, drive. Like, we didn't just fucking rob the bank. We go to McDonald's. I give Gino eating at McDonald's. I'm like. I'm like. I'm asking him like, yo, bro, I didn't know that this was a part of the process. I'm asking like, bro, what the fuck is going on? Gino, like, hey, man, you know, we deep in it right now. I just gotta focus. You know, Geno Cross, he do the whole whatever he. And then, you know, the tears come out and all of that stuff. What I'm saying is, I don't have an opinion about the inner workings of these organizations, but culturally I can have an opinion because. Because they are a part of the culture that I grew up in.

[Rachel Lindsay]

So I'm not even going to get into.

[Van Lathan]

You're saying it right, but the Battle of the Bands is not a part of the cult.

[Rachel Lindsay]

That's actually not true.

[Van Lathan]

You wait until they started shooting.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Wait, wait, wait.

[Van Lathan]

And then I'm not even going to.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Get into it deep with you because the only cultural understanding you have about the D9 is what happened the years that you were at Southern University. That's true. You have. And the fact. That's really not true, though, and the fact that when you give examples, it all relates to what happened to Southern and your friends. I'm not even. It. It actually is beneath me. But do you understand back and forth of it?

[Van Lathan]

That's not true, though. Like, I've been. I've been to Hampton. I've been to Texas Southern. I've been to.

[Rachel Lindsay]

That's great. But you were. But you didn't. That's so.

[Van Lathan]

I've seen these campuses everywhere.

[Rachel Lindsay]

If Bernard here was like, I've been to. Like, that's me. I. I would never be like, I've been to all these HBCUs. I know exactly what it is to go to HBCU.

[Van Lathan]

I say I know. What I know is the cultural is.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Related to your experience while you were at Southern. But that's fine.

[Van Lathan]

Can I say something else?

[Rachel Lindsay]

That's fine. You don't know about anything else. You don't know about going to conventions, a conclave. You don't know what it's like to do meetings. You know what you've been told.

[Van Lathan]

I know what you've not been told. Can I say something?

[Rachel Lindsay]

I don't even know why we argue. I would never. Anything that you're a part of, and I've never been a part of HBCUs. No, I would not do that. I can speak to a battle of the band experience because 1. The Battle of this band, the high school version of it, was every year up the street that I used to walk to at Kimball High School. In addition to that, I spent years, countless times going to Gramlin prayer view games, watching a battle of the bands. I grew up on it. It was a tradition. So I would only speak to watching Gramlin and pv. I would never speak to Southern because I never went to the Bayou Classic. That's not the thing. I wouldn't speak about tsu. I speak to Gramlin and I would spe to pv because I grew up on that. I experienced that. It was a part of our tradition. It was a part of the culture of Dallas to go to the Cotton bowl and go to that game every year before the Texas OU game. I wouldn't speak anything else outside of that because I don't know that. I know that as an observer for years and then as a teenager going.

[Van Lathan]

So let me. So this is the last thing I say about it, just to kind of make. And I won't Talk about the D9 if you don't want me to, but this is the last thing I'll say about it.

[Rachel Lindsay]

You can talk about it.

[Van Lathan]

So just. This is why. This is why. So how I grew up is like the grownups would try to get you to join organizations. So before I even got to school, the grownups that I knew, like, like, remember Gino's dad was a Kappa. Like, well, my friend's mom is an aka, one of my uncle's in it, right? So they're all taught. So you're at. You're literally at your family reunion and you see people doing stuff and you like, what are they doing? And then my dad would be like. My dad would say stuff like, oh, that's the fraternity. And it's not just them, it's the Masons too. It's all different types of things that you have a cultural understanding of because it's right there in your face at all times.

[Rachel Lindsay]

I'm not disagreeing that.

[Van Lathan]

And then I remember Penny Hardaway after a magic game where I'm 12 years old. I'm 12 years old. Penny hard. Penny Hardaway after a magic game goes, yo, baby, yo. I know what he's saying. Like, I'm a 12 year old kid. Like, he goes, yo, baby, yo. And I'm like, I know what he's saying. I know what that means. Like, I know it's a part of just blackness. It's not even a part. It's a part of black culture. So when you get on the yard, the yard just reestablishes that. You just see your friends go through it. You see people that have wanted to be this their entire life, like Gina Bryant, my other friend. You see people that are in this, you're a part of their experience with it. I don't know the inner workings of nothing Kappa.

[Rachel Lindsay]

That's all I'm saying.

[Van Lathan]

I don't know. But what I'm telling you is if we're having a conversation about the difference between the akas and the Deltas, the information I got is because a Delta one day ran down the history of her organization. The Kappas are the ones that told me, hey, hey, we're the only HBCU that started at Ivy League school. That's their claim to fame. The Alphas came and said, okay, just to let you know, we got W.E.B. du Bois and Martin Luther King Jr. The Sigmas come in and go, actually, did you know that we are actually the only organization to where the brotherhood and sisterhood of our organization is actually in our, like, paperwork and all of that. They tell you all of you know all of that, and you go down, like, list after list into all of these different organizations. You know, the schools that they were founded at, you know why they were founded. You know how it happened. It's just knowledge that you garner.

[Rachel Lindsay]

It's just stuff that happens. My only thing is when you. One, when you act like you know more than me.

[Van Lathan]

I never said that.

[Rachel Lindsay]

I said act like two. When you do act like you know the inner workings of the sorority and you do. I can't remember every example. I'm sure the thought words would point this out. That's. That's. I'll tell you what I acted like culturally. You're right. D9 is so a part of our culture. I totally understand you speaking to it in that sense. Just like I can speak about a culture, a part of Dallas that I was a part of.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, the battle of the bands until it got too violent.

[Rachel Lindsay]

You know what? Shout out to my parents for your. For your protection.

[Van Lathan]

Nah, my parents didn't look at it like that. My dad was like, pop, Pop. Pop. My dad like, hey, them is crazy. Look at the game. Like, pop.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Nah, they had to stop the game a couple of times.

[Van Lathan]

Hey, you know, but. But this is. But you know what? That's a part of it, man.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Clearly it's not.

[Van Lathan]

I mean, I never. I never been to a battle of the bands where they were shooting. Like. But we go down there, you know, it's a couple fights, you know, whatever.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Happened, you know, but, like, everybody takes off running, and you don't know why. Everybody gets run. Slick Rick after one of those. Yeah, you just run. You just run.

[Van Lathan]

You just get out of here.

[Rachel Lindsay]

You just run. That's when I was a teenager.

[Van Lathan]

Who cares?

[Rachel Lindsay]

When I was a teenage.

[Van Lathan]

You just run. You get out of there. So what was the last ballot of Bash you went to?

[Rachel Lindsay]

Oh, well, that. That one. When I was in high school, senior in high school, I loved. It was a. It was. It was what we did as girls. Like, you know, going to a private school was like. That's when I got to see people outside of first bap. Well, I guess I was already hanging out with people, so.

[Van Lathan]

McKinley High School, Baton Rouge, Louisiana. When I get there, it's a guy there. See, my cousin was in the band of Southern Jason Stewart.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Okay. Oh, we gotta get that. Southern really did lose, though.

[Van Lathan]

They didn't lose.

[Rachel Lindsay]

They really, like, you didn't give one explanation as to why they did a better job. The song choices were bad. The precision. The precision and the formation. It's always bad.

[Van Lathan]

This is why all they.

[Rachel Lindsay]

When they put down, like, my favorite part is when they start putting down the. Their instruments and they start dancing and, like, you got. You got the Guy on the microphone. The drum majors are doing their things. All they did was do TikTok dances. All they did was TikTok dances.

[Van Lathan]

So this is my thing. I think Southern has a better band product than Grambling. It would be very. I'm gonna be honest with you guys. It's a bias. It would be very, very difficult for me to admit that Southern's band lost a Gramlin's band. When I look at Southern's band on the field and I look at Gramlin's band on the field, I see beautiful colors with Southern's band. Beautiful. Playing the Human Jukebox. I hear the sound. And then I look at Gramblin's band, and it looks like a CL Black.

[Rachel Lindsay]

And with that black.

[Van Lathan]

You like that gold?

[Rachel Lindsay]

I think it looks so good on the field.

[Van Lathan]

You love it. I don't like the way that it looks. Never have. And so that, to me, is. Is. Is. It's. It's beyond. It's beyond the pill. Like Southern. To me, Southern's band is a mythical instrument. My cousin, when I was at McKinley, McKinley High School, another great band when I was at McKinley, we had a guy there my freshman year. Name? Terrence Jackson. TJ Terrence Too Cold Jackson. And he would walk out to the middle of McKinley's field, and he would do what's called the back bend. And then guess what I saw on television the year after my freshman year. Terrence Too Cold Jackson doing that same back. Ben. What about Lewis Mallory? What about Midnight Blue?

[Rachel Lindsay]

What about him?

[Van Lathan]

Drum majors. My culture and your organization is a part of my culture. It is. We got to get more locked in with the HBCUs. Because as much as people talk about Stephen A. Smith, and Stephen A. Smith is probably the wrongest person, Stephen A. Smith has decided, and it's just fact, Stephen A. Smith has decided to be specifically dedicated to wrong. And I haven't seen anything like it in a long time. Okay, like, specifically dedicated to wrong. He's wrong so often that it's making me think that somebody is doing it to him on purpose. Like almost everything that is said is wrong. When he came out and he. He got on Senator Kelly, I'm not about to take up for Senator Kelly, but the thought that you should follow any order that the president gives you when the oath of the American military is clear to follow the Constitution. There were guys during a My Lai massacre that saw what was going on in Vietnam and put themselves in between what the soldiers were doing and what was happening to the people.

[Donnie]

People.

[Van Lathan]

Right. And stopped Them from the, the examples of soldiers. When we talk about the military refusing to do things, Apple grape like refusing to do things that are abhorrent, illegal and wrong is very long. Right. And for Stephen A. Honestly, to get on his platform and to just become another instrument of misinformation is starting to fascinate me. But I'll say this though.

[Rachel Lindsay]

That's you.

[Van Lathan]

But, but I'll say this though. He does put on for the HBCUs.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Yeah, he does. He puts on with the first take. He does put on for HBCUs.

[Van Lathan]

He went to an HBCU. So. And that's very important. It's a very important.

[Rachel Lindsay]

He would say, how could you say these things about me when I put on for HBCUs?

[Van Lathan]

But I would say this though. So the reason why, like Stephen A. Smith is a reporter, so I. I'll explain something to you guys. Like a lot of people might think that TMZ goes out and they, they, they push it out there and they don't give a whether or not it's true or not.

[Rachel Lindsay]

I don't think they think that they.

[Van Lathan]

That is untrue.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

I think they desperately care whether or not the is true. Now they might source things that other organizations might not source. Like they might go on sources, sources that they know and have relationships with and walk the line of what other legacy organizations might do or not do. For speed. And whenever you are dealing in speed, we got to break it first. We got to be exclusive. You're going to get some shit wrong, but the more shit you get wrong, the more it actually hurts your bottom line. The reason why I say all of that is that like, if you are a reporter, there is a way that you synthesize and deliver information that is normally pretty uniform. Normally you get something, you work through it, you look at different spots and then you shoot it back out. Once you know that what you're reporting is pretty well unimpeachable. And he's not doing that. He's just not, he's not, he's not doing that. He's not doing that in any way, shape or form. He is putting shit out there and then three or four days later walking it back almost in a weird cycle. That makes me think that and it's all his responsibility and I'm not taking responsibility away from him that like there's somebody around him that is using him for a very specific purpose or that there is intention in him being a part of this misinformation game. It's weird to see, see Somebody who is made their career off being a reporter. We see opinion people all the time, right? Like be purposeful in wrongness. We see the Hannity's and all of these people just like mouthpiece the president. But normally when we see like reporters and people that are reporting the news and gathering facts and putting stuff out there, you see a little bit more of an allegiance to fact or to delivering facts in a way that is a little bit more nutritious.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Well money.

[Van Lathan]

Could that be the whole answer?

[Rachel Lindsay]

Look at Megyn Kelly gone on tangents.

[Van Lathan]

About Megan Kelly but she's an opinion person.

[Rachel Lindsay]

But she was a journalist and an attorney and now she's a media personality. Now she's a political commentator and we talked about how she is is basically a grifter now you know I call her white Candace Owens. She is smarter than the things that she's doing and she's getting worse and worse and worse. Now I'm not saying that Stephen A. Smith is at that level but when it comes to sports he's still doing his reporting and being a media personality and a talk when it comes to that he is now making $36 million as a political commentator.

[Van Lathan]

So we're to believe that he's been bought that he. That somebody told Stephen A. Smith. That somebody told Stephen A. Smith we're gonna give you this money so you have to go out there with uninformed political taste?

[Rachel Lindsay]

No, I don't think that. I think that he is opinionated. He has opinions about politics. He sees an opportunity where he can talk about whatever he wants, how he wants it. I don't think that he looks at it as he's giving misinformation and I think he's kind of said this. He looks at it as says it's my opinion and for Housewives fans you'll get that reference. That's my opinion. That's how I think he thinks of it as. I'm not misinformed, I'm just telling you what I think and how I feel. Now if he decides to truly run for president, which I don't think he is, it's just another talking point for him. For him to continue to be provocative and draw people into the things that he's saying on his show that he ever will seriously run. But if he does decide to to then it's a different conversation. But right now I think that this is another form way for him to make money and he's just giving his political opinion. That's how he looks at it. I'm not Saying he's right, he is wrong, like you said a lot and absolutely misinformed. But I don't think he sees it that way. I think that's the delusion. And I can just look at that from the journey he took with the Jasmine Crockett situation. He is very good at convincing himself of the things he wants to convince himself of.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, I guess I. I'm just like. Just to do this and to continuously be walking this stuff back or continuously be like smacked around by Roland Martin or somebody like that. It's just.

[Rachel Lindsay]

I think you want it to be something more deeper than that.

[Van Lathan]

No, no, no, no.

[Rachel Lindsay]

And I don't think it's.

[Van Lathan]

That's not that I want it to be something more because the answer is normally always the simplest answer. But I'm trying to get to what that is. To me, you look at somebody and you go like, is this guy coming apart? Like, no.

[Rachel Lindsay]

I think he is intoxicated by the sound of his own voice, by his. By growing his platform. I remember when we talked about one of the things he said about Jasmine Crockett, he goes, oh, you think this is it? And I'm paraphrasing. He was like, I'm about to get a bigger desk with more seats. I think he is intoxicated by growing his platform and the fame and having. And just basically building this empire more than anything else. That's what I think. That's what I think is driving him. Money having his footprint on so many different things and growing in that way. I mean, there was a time where he was talking about wanting Jimmy Kimmel's spot. Like, this is how I think that's the vision for him and whatever means necessary to get there. So it starts sports now. It's more so moving in the political route. That's profitable these days. Independent media is very profitable. It's a way to grow. It's a way to. To get more eyes on you as other industries are dying.

[Donnie]

This episode is brought to you by Salty Cheesy Cheez It Crackers. Should this whole podcast just be me eating Cheez It? That would be a top notch podcast. You could hear them crunching in my mouth. You could think about how salty and savory and delicious they are. You can just get Cheez it on the brain. Oh, man, those Cheez it cravings, they get you. Anyway, what was I talking about? Oh yeah. Uh, oh, Cheez It. Yeah, Cheez It Crackers. Go check em out. This episode is brought to you by McAfee. You wanna live your Online life worry free. But with all those identity thefts and data leaks we all keep hearing about, it's not easy. Choose McAfee's award winning protection to keep those scammers away. Keep your data and identity safe. Plans start at just 39.99 for your first year. All you have to do is find out [e-mail] keepitre real cancel anytime terms apply.

[Van Lathan]

Donnie, play that freestyle real quick. In straight up San Francisco, it's like you're on a trip. You got the rip when you hanging out with the rune like you hide on the mushrooms. What?

[Rachel Lindsay]

Cause this is what we do.

[Van Lathan]

It's the love. It's a gift straight up from the God above. When you hanging with your friends at the Amador Club, right? And when you got this, it's the flash. It feels like you've got this blush. You're so, so hot. Like it's the gold rush. Cuz when you're here, you got the AI, it's so fly.

[Rachel Lindsay]

And what's AI Arun?

[Van Lathan]

Intelligence. That's what we come in that.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Oh man, they cut him off too early.

[Van Lathan]

That was spitting. So Farooq Ramzon posted this.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Is that him?

[Van Lathan]

I don't think that was him. Okay, Donnie, was that Farooq who posted this?

[Donnie]

No, Farooq was there.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Recording's a fan.

[Van Lathan]

So that was a tech party in. In San Francisco. And that was a guy up there who I guess was one of the tech guys that was freestyling. I mean this was no hyperbole whatsoever. That's what's wrong with America. I'm so serious. That is what's wrong with America.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Break it down for me.

[Van Lathan]

So is that guy in that room probably is going to have access to millions and millions of dollars and. And when we're living in this techno feudalism that we're in right now, those are the guys that like have an inordinate amount of power. I remember something that Dame Dash said one time and people can say whatever they want about Dame, but Dame said something I never forgot. He goes, how have you turned your culture over to people who have opinions about your music but they can't dance? I was like, shit. People that make the decisions about your music, but they can't dance. Yeah, when I see that dude, I see somebody. Somebody said he was Kendall Roy, obviously.

[Rachel Lindsay]

From Succession.

[Van Lathan]

From Succession. I see somebody up there that's like, let me hit them with a high 16. Let me get up there and burn up this motherfucking party. And he is so fucking whack that's the wackest shit I ever heard. And you only got two choices in that situation. Tell him he's whack and then fuck your relationship with him. Or be like, yo, that shit was hot. And what we're choosing to do right now, what a lot of people are choosing to do, what your favorite rappers, what your favorite athletes, what your favorite people are doing right now, is they're looking at guys like that and they're going, I could. Yeah, yeah, that shit was hot. That shit was tight. For real. Cause I felt like I stumbled. Nah, man, nah. That shit was. Nah. You know, when I first heard, I was in Brooklyn the first time, you might remind me of first hearing, you know that guy that was rapping in Brooklyn. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's just like, that shit was hot. Then these guys with swelled heads and all of this start fucking with your culture. Start doing all. They're making decisions about your shit and they can't dance. So when I looked at that, I thought two things. One, we've turned over society to the nerds. And we thought that that was a good idea.

[Donnie]

Idea.

[Van Lathan]

And the nerds are us. So bad, man. We thought the nerds were harmless. You know, you see somebody in college, they come to class and they're wearing a three piece suit. And like you go, you know, maybe not with that guy. But then they took over the world. And at first we were like, cool. Because at least they're not the asshole sons of the last bunch of neocon billionaire people. At least they're harmless like they were when they were in a three piece suit and scratch school. But that's not who they are. They're Alex Carp, they're Sam Altman, they're Mark Zuckerberg, they're Eli. They're Jeff Bezos, they're Elon Musk. They are deeply, deeply cynical and political, but they think they're cool, right? And their search for cool is ruining the world. So when I saw that, I'm like, that's who we got to stop, man. And we can't let him freestyle no more. Somebody should have been in the audience that up.

[Rachel Lindsay]

The guy next to him has the biggest smile on his face. People are. I mean, you. Y' all gotta see the video. He's so serious. You ever watch the show Silicon Valley? Of course I saw somebody in the comments was like, you think you thought Silicon Valley was a joke. This is exactly what it was. This is exactly.

[Van Lathan]

It's how. Just be like, hey, man, shut that up.

[Rachel Lindsay]

That's what Happens. Like I have a friend who's always like, you can't buy cool. Those guys that you listed off believe that they can. And they have people surrounding them and telling them, like, this guy that they have. You can't tell this guy he's not cool. You can't tell this guy he didn't go off. That's the problem. They believe that they have bought cool and this is their cool.

[Van Lathan]

Hey, cool is one thing, decency is another. Your friend is right. Right. But what's happening, what happens to people is when you don't give them no real feedback and when there are no actual guard rails to this stuff, they think everything that they do is cool. They think it's the coolest shit in the world. When you listen to Alex Carp talk about paler, he talks about killing people so flippantly, he freaked out cuz Michael Burry from the Big Short is about the short Palantir and Alex Carter Carp went on Squawk Box and fucking lost it. And I thought it was very, very interesting, right? It was very interesting to hear one of these masters of the universe go, please leave my data mining company alone. Please don't hurt us. Please. Why are you hurting us? When I said that I wanted to like, spray fentanyl over my enemies and kill everyone, Kill Chain is what I'm proud of. I'm proud of the efficiency in which my software allows the United States of America. America. To go overseas and end people's lives. Like so. So to me, like, looking at all of this stuff, ceding control of the world to guys like that, maybe not the best thing in the world. Maybe we were wrong in that. It's nothing we can do now, though. It's too much. All right, let's end on a good note. That I'm gonna turn into a bad note.

[Rachel Lindsay]

No, I'm gonna turn it to a bad note. Donnie, go ahead.

[Donnie]

This is Angola. I'm assuming we're talking.

[Rachel Lindsay]

How are you gonna do this?

[Van Lathan]

Let me set it up.

[Donnie]

Angola Prison recently hosted its first Daddy Daughter Dance right before Thanksgiving. The event was created by a group called Guy Behind Bars, along with some members of Angola's leadership. It allowed fathers to get their daughters with flowers, Bibles and handwritten letters. Family shared Thanksgiving meals, and a local Baton Rouge artist painted portraits of the festivities. And it concluded with a choreographed dance routine that the dads have been practicing for weeks. How's this bad?

[Rachel Lindsay]

Thank you, Donnie. How is this bad? Because I saw this and I just. It warmed my spirit when I. When I saw this. Over the break, it did. Because it's not just about the inmates getting to see their daughters for the first time in months, and for some of them, even years. And I think I read for some, maybe never had never. I think it just allows the daughters to see their fathers as fathers and more than just inmates. And it allows the inmates to look at themselves as something more meaningful than just being another person in prison. I think that it gives them hope. It hopefully heals wounds. I think it shows that it gives them something to live for, something to to look forward to when they get out. Knowing that somebody is depending on you, somebody believes in you, someone. And, like, I mean, I don't know what it's like to be in prison, but I would imagine that that piece of, you know, like, you live a certain life when you're in prison, and that's your reality. And to get that piece of reality to come in in a different way, like it does with that innocence of your children, I think just. It was just so beautiful for me to see and, you know, to watch them, like, do their dance. They did, like, a routine dance for their daughters and. I don't know. And for them to get dressed up and just to see themselves as something more.

[Van Lathan]

I mean, people.

[Rachel Lindsay]

As people. Yes. It just. I loved this idea so much. I'm not familiar with this organization. Apparently they do. This isn't the first time that something like this has happened, but it just. I want to see more of this. And with all the darkness that we talk about in the world and we talked about on this podcast, or even the stupidity like on yek, it's nice to see something that felt a little bit more pure.

[Van Lathan]

I agree. I agree totally. I want to make sure that that's. I agree totally. I watched it. I think about the relationship between fathers and their families and how much it makes you feel like more than your circumstance to be able to connect with your children. Yeah, I completely, completely think that it's beautiful. It's gorgeous. It's at Angola.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Yes.

[Donnie]

Yes.

[Van Lathan]

That's a plantation.

[Rachel Lindsay]

That stood out to me, though.

[Van Lathan]

Okay, so let me tell you. So I reached out to this God behind bars group, right? I have five questions for him. Four questions. Because they sell music based upon what they are. They have an ep, they have music that they're selling. So I wanted to. I said, hey, great work you guys are doing. Which is true. And I said, we're covering this on our show today. I have four questions. I'm not saying that they didn't get back to Me, because maybe they haven't seen this yet. I said four questions. One, where do the proceeds to the music go? Two, is there any post incarceration work that the organization does to affect recidivism? Get inmates jobs, skills, anything that you guys do for the continuing humanity of these men? All this stuff might be yes, whatever. I haven't got an answer yet. Is the organization political in any way? Are there any donations or political action that people should be aware of? Four, how would you like people to best support the organization? Those are the questions that I have for them. And there are even more questions that I have. The questions that I have are surrounding the reality of prisoners at Angola. The reality is for people who don't know, while we're talking about this, like Angola is a slave organization. According to Worth Rises, working conditions on prison farms like Angola are grueling, particularly in the south, where temperatures can reach up to 100 degrees and heat strokes have been commonplace. Angola, where incarcerated men pick cotton, okra, potatoes and other crops and grueling heat, is at the center of a lawsuit alleging that the farm line violates the U.S. constitution's protections against cruel and unusual punishment. Patrick Jones, who is a man incarcerated in Angola, has worked the farm line for years and explained, I never had exceeded except for the grand ground. I never had shade except for the corn and the okra. While a case continues. A temporary restraining order was recently ordered in response to the case, demanding that the prison take extra steps to protect incarcerated people from heat. But even the most basic protections against heat, Patrick and the other inmates on the farm line are still at risk. Compared to other industries, agricultural workers are five times more likely to be killed at work when they work in Angola. In addition to acute risks of injury or death while working, there are also serious health risks associated with chronic exposure to pesticides and other toxins. And the gola's nickname is the farm. It's literally a plantation turned into a prison work camp. Real work for the freedom of those men. They're free in that moment. They're spiritually free. Communing with God is great. All of that stuff. Real work for the. For the freedom of that of those men. Real work to me, by any organization that's going to go into that program, prison is addressing the material conditions that those men are living under. And that's it. And so I look at that dance and I'm like, fantastic, fantastic, amazing. There's no way I'm going to extract something negative from that. I'm not. That is fantastic. That organization is doing good work. But if they want to do transformative work, then they have to take on the system that those men inside that prison are dealing with. And my cynicism about modern Christianity and about religion and its workings are deeply embedded in this analysis because I simply don't believe that Christianity right now works in the way that it should work. How it should work is to stop the death penalty. How it should work is to stop the torture of inmates. How it should work is to address the conditions and the situation that lead to that group of black men being inside that fucking torture chamber and having to dance for their children behind bar. I'm not saying they have to do it all, but I'm saying when I look at that, it's just hard for me to think of it outside of everything else that's going on.

[Rachel Lindsay]

All right, I didn't address the. Yes, it's called God behind bars. And yes, part of this dance was also them writing letters to their daughters and also giving their daughters a Bible. I didn't talk about the Christianity part of it. I agree with you. I agree with. There is so much more that needs to be done in regards to. To what is happening in Angola. We've talked about Angola before. That's why this stood out to me, too, because it was Angola. And I know we've talked about it. I believe you're not. I agree with everything you're saying, but the reason. But one organization can't do everything. And I'm not saying that this organization shouldn't do more. But if this organization's entire goal is to. This is what this is. The last sentence on their about thing says, God behind Bars addresses the drastic recidivism problem with a unique approach that focuses on the spiritual, physical, and relational needs of inmates and their families. I am sure that there are organizations that are addressing the very things that you. That you need and that you're talking about, and every organization should. But if there is an organization that does decide to take a different approach to address other needs in addition to the injustices that are going on there that are unconstitutional, like helping with someone spiritually and mentally and helping them as they are subjected to all this, they still need other tools for survival while they are there, then I'm okay with this. And if that is the entire goal, and I'm only addressing, I think, this question too, of what else do you do? I think was the question in regards to recitative recidivism.

[Van Lathan]

The other stuff they have not answered yet.

[Rachel Lindsay]

And they are free to the Other stuff is fair. I'm more so speaking to that about what else do you do? If this is all they do in regards to recidivism, I'm okay with that. If that is this organization's entire goal. While there are other organizations that are doing that, I'm not gonna ask them to do everything. But it is a unique approach and it is something that I think that is, is, can be helpful. It is not the only thing that should be done. It is not the end all, be all, but it is something. And that's one of the reasons I wanted to highlight it.

[Van Lathan]

I agree and I am well aware of how I'm coming off. And let me tell you.

[Rachel Lindsay]

No, you're right. By the way.

[Van Lathan]

This is a place I've been to, drove up that long Road in St. Francis, visited men that have been there, seen the pictures and all of that stuff. This is a place that I've been to. It's gotta change. You're right. And like, for me personally looking at that, I'm like, that is amazing and it's beautiful. And yeah, there has to be somebody in there that takes the walls down. There has to be someone. That's true. But when you drive up that road, you drive past white men sitting on horses as black men are out there picking shit up, you like, yo, what the fuck is going on? Like, what is happening in this type of place? The way these men inside these places are commodified? Like, when you go in there are the questions being asked, like, how much does it cost for you to call your mom? Like, seriously, just break it down to a. Like, when you are in a place like this and you talking to an inmate, next time you talk to an incarcerated person, ask them, how much does it cost for your mama to accept the call? Like, what. What company is making money off your mom accepting the call? Can she afford to stay in touch with you? Like, who's making money from the food that you are eating right now? Is it R Mark? Is it a company that's coming in there and feeding you low quality food, right? And then making a million dollars, a prison or a billion dollars a year, whatever the fuck it is, off the fact that you have to eat inside? Like, what, how are you? How are they treating you in here? All of that? And I hope to God, pray to God that this company is doing all of that work. But in addition to the dancing, there needs to be somebody, There needs to be some part of this that is addressing how these men got there, what their lives are like when they get there, there. And what happens when they leave? Leave. Other than that, I can't dance with you. I need somebody that has some answers. Bringing God into the prison is fantastic. Spirituality is expansive. It brings you into your humanity. All of that is phenomenal. That's great. But who's working on the other side? Like, what's happening? And by the way, the way they probably because the information on the website was sparse. Right. But they probably maybe will respond to some of these questions. And they're only questions. But you would have to have been, not have to have been. Everybody understands the reality of prisons like Angola and other places like that, that there's so much wrong happening. And I. Everybody get with an organization and try to if you have the chance. Worth rises Bianca Tylek and a lot of the information and a lot of the work that they do is phenomenal. Campaign 0deray McKelson. Get with some organization. Connect yourself to some group that can better educate you on the lives of an incarcerated. And the deeper you get into that, man, listen to deray talk about life at Rikers. The more you get into that, the more you go, okay, fathers and daughters and human. All of that is. That is such a vital part of it. But if you go in there, to me, you're signing up for a lot more than just that. But I completely understand how this is coming off. Like, I totally get it.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Agree. Shouldn't be the end all be all. But I do think that programs like this are necessary as well.

[Van Lathan]

I agree. I agree. My bad. I had to be. We're not even going to talk about the Miami Dade. The barber who tried to shoot the guy in the barbershop.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Yeah, let's just.

[Van Lathan]

The only thing I'll say about it is this, you know, doing both of those together. This is the tension of higher level learning.

[Rachel Lindsay]

This is the tension doing what together?

[Van Lathan]

So doing the incarcerated dance and then doing this and then seeing that video, this is the tension that lives in me. Do you know why? Because you know what I say I see when I see that guy pulled a gun out on his barber in front of the kids. You know what I think?

[Rachel Lindsay]

What?

[Van Lathan]

I think some of them you got to put in jail like that.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Because in that video, guys, the man said says he. He. When he pulls the gun out on the barber for what he felt like was he pushed his hairline back. The guy said he had seen him before and cut his hair many times. He goes back outside, gets his gun and then is like, you're lucky. I Don't want to go back to prison.

[Van Lathan]

It's two kids.

[Rachel Lindsay]

You're lucky. I don't want to go back. That's why he didn't kill him.

[Van Lathan]

The kids are terrified. You changing their brain chemistry. Yeah, like you're changing their brain chemistry. The two kids, when you see it, you will be moved. They are holding each other in fear of some guy getting mad cause his line is not to his liking and pulling a gun on someone. This is when. When a video like this happens, I call my abolitionist friends. I go, okay, how do we deal with this? Like, what. What do we do? Because I'm not a law and order. Throw them all away. But I'm like, God damn.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Is for so many reasons. Reasons.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah. Like what the. How do we do this? Because I'm. Because that type of. Will make you into a Republican. For just a second. For just a second. That's what you have to fight against. You have to fight against it for just a second. I'm like, ah, throw him away. Get his ass out of here. Call somebody for his ass. Somebody come get this goddamn. He can't be in our society. And they're like, whoa, Mark my hill, Philip McHenry. Like, bro, what do we. Like, how do we do this? And then they. They tell you. They go, hey, man, there's so many things that go into it about. But for a second when I saw that man, I was like, somebody get his ass.

[Rachel Lindsay]

But. But he needs to be in jail. I'll say it.

[Van Lathan]

I know you. I know.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Sorry.

[Van Lathan]

I know.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Sorry. The judge, that man, the. As easy as he went out and got that gun in front of children. No regard. No regard for the children. That's that, like, no regard. So easily pulls out a gun.

[Van Lathan]

We gotta. We gotta help him as well. Because I had a long conversation about that. We got to help. But when as we help.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Some people don't want to be helped. Some people don't want to be helped. I would. I would love to know what he was in prison for. How long he had been out.

[Van Lathan]

Parking tickets. It was parking tickets. I looked it up. It was. It was parking tickets. He had.

[Rachel Lindsay]

He had a guy, he said, prison.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, he went to prison for parking tickets. He was the parking ticket king of Miami is what they said.

[Rachel Lindsay]

He went to prison for parking tickets.

[Van Lathan]

Prison of parking tickets. He's like, he got a lot of tickets. A lot of them.

[Rachel Lindsay]

You're lying.

[Van Lathan]

What? But he got a lot of things. Art Basel. He got a lot of tickets at Art Basel. And then they put him in jail. So this was the first time he had ever done anything violent.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Listen, I'd love to know what the backstory is, but I'm sorry. Sometimes you can help somebody by putting.

[Van Lathan]

Him in jail a little bit.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Little bit.

[Van Lathan]

See Daddy then Did Daddy down to dance and all that. I don't want to. I don't.

[Rachel Lindsay]

I believe in recidivism so much. I believe in rehabilitation. I've.

[Van Lathan]

You believe in recidivism? You believe in fighting recidivism.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Sorry. Fighting recidivism. Sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry. I. Then I said rehabilitation, so you know what I mean. I believe. I believe in it, but I'm sorry. That man should be out on the street.

[Van Lathan]

It was tough to watch. Watch.

[Rachel Lindsay]

That man should not be out of. I don't want.

[Van Lathan]

I don't. I'm not. It just feels weird for me to advocate for putting. But I watch.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Maybe he shouldn't own a gun. Maybe that's like. Maybe c. Shouldn't have been able to have access to gun. Maybe that's. That's a deeper issue. The gun laws. Like why. Why does he. Why? Because he could he so easily have a gun, pull a gun out. Maybe that's it. Okay, Maybe it's not prison. Maybe it's the gun. I don't know. But that situation shouldn't have happened.

[Van Lathan]

When you have these thoughts, call one of your friends. When you. When you. You have a friend that's into abolition. Fellas, when you're feeling a little soggy, call up one of your homegirls who is really well versed in fighting misogyny so they can tell you that you suck and that you need to do better and give you five different bell hooks books to read. Right? So always check yourself. When you're feeling a little soggy. And I was feeling a little Republican y when I saw that video. I wish that somebody walking by. Just trip him down on the ground. Officer.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Man.

[Van Lathan]

Officer. Officer. Will you see what he did to the children? But then I had to call some people and get talked off the ledge. So you feel nothing?

[Rachel Lindsay]

I do feel something.

[Van Lathan]

That he should be. Take your dingy caps and your shackles off. But don't stop learning and don't stop dancing. I'm looking forward to talking to the people from God behind bars. Yeah.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Yeah. I'm Rachel and Lindsey. Bye, guys.