← Higher Learning with Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay
Higher Learning with Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay
Senator Brian Schatz On Trying to Comprehend MAGA. Plus, Men’s Views on the WNBA With Angel McCoughtry! | Higher Learning | The Ringer
01:43:26
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- [00:02]
A
Yo, yo, yo. Thought warriors. What is up? Higher learning is on.
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B
It's Ivan Lakey Jr. And it's me, Rachel, and Lindsay.
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A
We have a couple of guests today. Senator Brian Schatz joins us to talk about his tweet.
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B
Yeah.
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A
About how we should try to convert potential Trump voters. He's a friend of the show.
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B
He likes friend of the show.
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C
Yeah.
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B
Love that.
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A
Who else do we have on?
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B
We have Angel McCaughrey.
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A
Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
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B
Former number one pick in the WNBA.
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A
Hooper. She likes to. Hooper.
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B
She's an Olympian.
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A
She's an Olympian. She's gonna be talking about Michael Porter Jr. Saying that he could have dominated the WNBA when he was in eighth grade.
- [00:39]
B
I've had enough of Michael Porter Jr. Like, I don't know who started putting a mic in front of his face, but it needs to stop. I'm not trying to silence anybody, but, like, enough.
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A
They've told him not to talk, and.
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B
I can see why.
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A
They said, don't talk.
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B
Every time he talks, it's a problem.
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A
This episode is brought to you by Hyundai. The all new 2026 Hyundai Palisade Hybrid doesn't just turn heads. It commands respect. With its stunning exterior, luxurious interior with available captain seats and spacious third row seating, and equipped with advanced technology, you and the family are making a statement before you even step out. Okay, Hyundai. Visit HyundaiUSA.com to learn more and experience the all new 2026 Palisade Hybrid today.
- [01:23]
B
Join me, Jacqueline Coley, as I sit down with Mark Platt, producer of Wicked and Wicked for Good, as he reveals how his family and collaborations have shaped his storytelling. Plus how Wicked for Good delivers the satisfying finale fans have been waiting for.
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D
Listen now to seen on the screen.
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B
Wherever you get your podcast.
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A
I had an interesting conversation on the way in and it is. I've talked to this gentleman and we. Everything that I'm saying right now, I talked to him and let him know I was going to be saying. I talked to Pharrell Williams.
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B
Interesting.
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A
Earlier today, and this is what Pharrell communicated to me as we spoke. Number one, he feels like the context of where he was and what he was talking about is not being considered.
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B
Okay.
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A
Pharrell was doing a talk for black ambition. Donnie, look this up. A black ambition initiative that he has. The intent of this initiative is to invest into black and brown entrepreneurship. Lots and lots of money. Over $85 million to invest into DEI programs, diversity inclusion programs, and make sure that the people behind these programs get exactly what they need. That he's put people on shelves At Walmart and Costco and all of that stuff. What he meant to say and was trying to say, that's where Pharrell told me, is that politics, which he was. Was specifically talking about right versus left politics, not the overall example of what it means to be politically knowledgeable or.
- [03:18]
B
Engaged, which in my response I gave him, I said, I think he was trying to say political parties.
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A
He's talking about right versus left politics and how right versus left politics typically leave people behind. It is divisive. It's divisive because it doesn't get at the heart of an issue. It is a fight for political power. And that is something that he doesn't wanna be a part of. He doesn't wanna be a part of a fight for political power. What he wants to be a part of is empowering people to go out and live their dreams and execute the things that they are talented in. That is one part of it. The other part of it, in terms of him talking about being the best, is what he was saying, is that the only thing you are going to have to fall back on if, in fact, DEI is dismantled is how great you are. And that greatness is going to be the thing that you are going to have to invest into in terms of yourself. If, in fact, there is no dei. Which is why he has the organization that he has, which is why he's put the $85 million into people, is because he wants to give everybody the opportun to be the best. He also feels like that if people would have taken the time to look into what his organization is and where he was speaking and what he was talking about, then perhaps the backlash wouldn't have been so much. But I'll tell you this.
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B
I don't know about that.
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A
So I'll tell you this. We had a conversation, and our conversation was a mutually beneficial conversation. It's not the first time I've spoken to Pharrell. Right. Our conversation was a mutually beneficial conversation. I think that I was able to impart upon him the importance of political education and understanding how politics affects people's everyday lives. And I don't think that I knew as much about all the things that he was doing and all the ways that he was actually trying to impact lives by promoting black entrepreneurship, by promoting black people going out and being able to live their dreams and how he sees himself and some of the other people that he deals with as people who can circumvent government action to get people in places where they need to be and how important that is to him. Now, just to be honest with you, we didn't agree on everything. There is a way that I think that these types of things should be discussed and talked about that did not come across in what he was saying. And I think that we had that conversation. He was very. He listened, and we had that conversation. This is what I would say, and I think this is a. For everyone that's like Pharrell, and let's be honest about who he is. He's someone that has had a tremendous amount of influence and success over the course of a phenomenal career. For everyone that is like Pharrell, for everyone that actually cares about people and wants to help people and wants to be involved in people's lives. I would say everybody don't have to be. Have someone that you can have conversations with around situations or things that you are uninitiated on, like things that you don't. Because not everybody is meant to be able to speak on these things. And he said that that's not his thing. His thing is not speaking on issues like this.
- [07:11]
B
One of the first things he said.
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A
His thing is not speaking on issues. His thing is being able to move economic power, to be able to move corporate power, to be able to move community power, to be able to get things done. That's his thing. So then the question is, if you are him, what do you do to make sure that things like this that are subtracting to your overall goal, that those things don't happen? Because we do live in a climate right now where the fight is existential. We're gonna talk to Senator Schatz about this where the fight is existential. So every single thing that is seen as an opposition to the fight will be disintegrated.
- [08:00]
B
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I obviously wasn't privy to the conversation that you had with Pharrell, and I actually don't even remember exactly. I'm trying to, like, as you were talking. I'm trying to remember why he went. He jumped from talking about politics and it being divisive to DEI and black and being the best. I can't remember, like, the connection between the two.
- [08:20]
A
The connection was that the politics failed you. So this was the thing. The politics of it failed you. The Democrats lost, and the Republicans. The Republicans came in and got rid of dei, dismantled dei. So the politics will fail.
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B
You will fall back on your greatness.
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A
What will not fail you is your greatness. And you have to have people that invest into your greatness, which is a great message. It's A great message. It's also a message that kind of runs at cross purpose when you're talking about the average American and what they need. And me and him, we had a conversation.
- [08:54]
B
We talked about that and what they have access to and all of that. I totally understand. The message is great of you should always be great and ready and prepared and all of that. That's what I mean by that's the great message. You should always have that to fall back on when the system cause this. I mean, we're black. The system has failed us countless times. It's just something that should innately be within us because of how we've had to navigate our lives in this country. And, um, what I was gonna say about Pharrell, now I'm forgetting, that's black ambition right there.
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A
That's the thing. So.
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B
No, no, no, it's beautiful. It was the addition and subtraction thing that you. That you were talking about. And you're right. You say, so what is. Your question was, so what. What do you do? Like, what does Pharrell do in this moment? I mean, we weren't the only people who talked about it.
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A
No, no, no, no, no. I don't know if he. Yeah, he was talking about the fact that he was responding to the overall.
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B
Right, right. It was everywhere, is my point. And you know me. I'm very big on. I love that you had this conversation with him. I love that there was. You know, you guys were able to respect where the other was coming from. You learned something from him, he learned something from you. You agree to disagree, all of that, but that's a conversation that you and Pharrell had. Even. I don't know, everything that was discussed. To me, what would benefit Pharrell in this situation, because it has. It's everywhere. I see it everywhere. You gotta talk. You gotta talk again.
- [10:19]
A
You want a guest spot, Gotta talk again.
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B
But no, no, no. I'm very serious. Cynical.
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A
Rachel.
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B
One of the things. No, no, no, you have to talk about it because you're right, what you just mentioned. I didn't. I did not look into where he was speaking, who he was speaking to, and why he had a microphone and a seat on that stage. I had no idea. Right. And what he said didn't even make me want to research that I was paying attention to what he said. And he's doing great things for the community, but what he said outshines that. And so my thing is, if you're going to say it in that vein, you have to come back out and speak to it again, not just have private conversations with people. And I don't mean this just because I do wanna have them on the show. I mean it because it's what's. What we need. It's what we need to hear from you, what we need to understand. Not only does it promote what it is that you're doing for the community, but just. Just in the way that the two of you were able to understand each other, where the other's coming from.
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A
It'.
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B
Sometimes we need to see that that needs to be expressed. And I still stand by the things that we said on the last podcast when it comes to Pharrell, but I also think that those conversations are very powerful for people to experience.
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A
I disagree.
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B
Maybe because you were the one privy to it.
- [11:41]
A
I disagree. Because everybody has different jobs. I did. So you were right. Let me finish. I disagree because everybody has different jobs. I am a talker. You are a talker. We measure our words, we say things. We still don't always get it right. Right.
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B
For sure.
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A
Everybody has different jobs. Not everybody is a talker. Now, I will say if you're not willing to have the conversation, if. If you're not. I don't agree with what was said on the stage. I understand where he's coming from. I understand what his goal is. I also understand sometimes how people can say and do things that's at cross purposes with their stated and energetic goals. That is a part of humanity. What I don't want is a bunch of people doing a bunch of interviews about shit that they don't know nothing about.
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B
That's not what I'm asking for.
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A
And so what I'm saying is, if we would have had the. If we would have had the conversation publicly that him and I had privately, it would have just been for views. Because the conversation was a lot of listening, a lot of clunkiness, a lot of two people trying to. It was the way an actual conversation goes. But if you listen to the convo, it's much more valuable if two people actually make a real connection about what it is that they want and can agree on certain things and agree to disagree on other things than it is.
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B
Who's it valuable for? Who's it valuable for?
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A
What do you mean?
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B
Who is that conversation? The conversation that the two of you had together. Who was that valuable for for them? No, no, because I guess this is. Again, we disagree on this.
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A
Well, it depends on what you believe. The reason why it's valuable is because now we can actually get something done. Now there's actually. If you believe. Hold on. Community building is not about cameras and microphones.
- [13:49]
B
It's not what I'm saying. You had a great conversation with Pharrell. Now from that conversation, I think that there could be a bigger conversation about it because here's. You would have to listen to higher learning or this has to get picked up somewhere for people to the value of what you experienced in that conversation for Pharrell. And like, I actually appreciate what he said, what you're relaying that he said in that conversation. But for it to have actual value, more people need to see it and hear. Can't just live in that conversation. And yes, of course I want him on the podcast, but that's not what I'm saying for it. This is why I talk about the value of. Of it. Y' all had a private conversation. Now you have an understanding of where he was coming from. From that. Let's sit down and have a conversation. That's what I'm saying. I'm not asking him to do a media tour. I actually think there's benefit in the two of you talking rather than you going in. Us going in blind with an interview. Now, it can be a conversation because you understand him better. That's like a call in versus a call out. It could have gone totally different if he would have just dialed in and we had the conversation. So actually understand that. Or now I feel like there's a better conversation. And the other reason I really want him to speak out is because, again, I keep using the same word value. I do think that there is some value in what he has to say. And because it has caught on and becomes so big, most people will never know where he was coming from. They'll never understand the intention behind it. And they'll develop a certain type of, I guess a feeling when it comes to Pharrell. And if it hadn't been so public, then I probably would have a totally different take on it. But because it did and because he reached out to you, which means he's obviously bothered by it and concerned, then why not. Let's make this a little bit more effective and reach out to a little. To more people. Have a conversation with somebody you can trust. He called you cause he could trust you.
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A
Well.
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B
And cause you could relay it for him in a better way.
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A
No, I should say this. There's the cynicism. So I should say it this. I should say it like this. Me and Pharrell have talked before. I did not reach out to him before. We talked about what we talked about. But I did reach out to him after. And after I reached out to him, he was like, let's get on the phone. Okay, I wanna make clear what I'm saying. If you are a national. When I say everybody has. Has different jobs, I wanna once again define what I mean. If you are a national political figure, it is your job to coalition build. It is your job to make people safe for giving you power. Okay, you're supposed to be a good talker. If you in fact are not a good talker, I would rather you not talk. Because what will happen if you do is your best laid plans. What you meant to say, what you were trying to say will come out wrong and then be weaponized. What you were trying to get across will come out wrong and then be weaponized. I would rather you do and I would rather you humble yourself and not get in front of a bunch of people and give a bunch of words about things that you do not know anything about. I actually think that's helpful. I actually think it's helpful in. In certain situations for me on certain things. The reason why we bring a lot of guests on these podcasts, I deep dive AI. I read 4 AI articles every single day, watch countless videos on AI. The reason why Ed is on this podcast is because Ed knows it better. It doesn't make any sense for me to get on the podcast and try to act like I understand AI like Ed does. Ed is the AI guy. It's Itran who we're gonna have back on. Cause AI going crazy. It is the AI guy. Have him on there and talk to him. Would it look great for me if I looked like this sort of ultimate intellect that could sit down and speak completely fluently on any subject? Sure. And there are a lot of people who can do that. There are a lot of people who have the acuity to be able to do that. I'm someone who gets deeply curious into something and likes to talk to people that can help streamline the way that I think I'm digressing. But what I am trying to say is that rather than have a conversation where you. Because we're not gonna hold his hand through it. Right. Rather than have a conversation and put yourself in a position where you are going to once again fuck up, I would rather you say, listen, these are my stated goals to people. These are my stated goals. This is what I'm about. This is what I am trying to do. He said a lot of things in the conversation that are straight up wrong. Straight up wrong. Like, I'll touch on one thing. There are a lot of people, a lot of famous and wealthy people that confuse the idea of philanthropy with systemic change.
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B
Yeah.
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A
Wanna say something to the audience right now? Y' all all know Spelman University, right?
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B
Of course.
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A
Spelman College. Spelman College.
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B
Spelman College.
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A
Y' all know Spelman College, right? I'm sure a lot of y' all know that Spelman is the maiden name of Rockefeller's wife, right?
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B
I actually didn't know that.
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A
You did not know that, like Spelman, the college is named after the wife of Rockefeller.
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D
Okay.
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A
Because they made the philanthropic donation to get Spelman started.
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D
All right.
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A
Does that change what Spelman has done? No. In no way, shape or form. Spelman is a shining beacon on a hill in terms of hbcu. Right. For the rich ones. No, I'm just joking. I'm just joking. I say that to say this, for everything that Spelman has done, for everything that Morehouse has done, for everything that every philanthropic institution that has ever tried to help black people or any people has done, it is just not as significance, as significant as systemic disassembly and change.
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B
Sure, sure, sure.
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A
And it never will be. So if you are a hyper rich person and you think that you can give away enough money to. You can't. You can't give away enough money. You can give. You can help.
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B
It helps.
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A
It is amazing to help people. Anytime that you've sent somebody to college, anytime that you have put food into continue to do it. We all should do it. We all should do it. We should do it. We should do it. We should do it. But if you come out and you say, maybe the Voting Rights act is not as important as something else that I'm doing, you have undid every single thing that you have did because you have fundamentally diminished black power in this country by taking their access to the ballot away. Your words are worth billions of dollars, the billions of dollars that you've given away. When you've done stuff like that, these systems have to get dismantled and they have to die and they have to get reformed. And if that's not happening, no amount of philanthropy can change that. And sometimes when you talk to people that are really well resourced, they'll tell you about all of the work that they've did, because that's what they understand. They understand I do something great and I get paid for it. And if I pay somebody else, then I'm giving them something great. So when you having that conversation, sometimes you're like, ah, you know, just let you know something. What I'm saying is that sometimes in some situations, some of these things need to be handled in community. Not necessarily with me, but with anyone. They need to be handled in community. Because if you're not positioning yourself as a leader of the culture, as a spokesperson of the culture, then maybe you don't need to be talking. And that goes for me, for anybody else. If you position yourself as a leader of the culture, as a part of the cultural intelligentsia, then you need to. But if not, let's do the work. Don't feel like you have to be the person out. There's plenty of people you could call. Plenty of people. You. Plenty of people. I call people all the time. Call people all the time. Plenty of people you could call. Call them. Call them or come on Higher learning for.
- [22:23]
B
No, no, you said. I already tried that.
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A
Yeah, but I would love to have him on the. On the. On the podcast.
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B
Oh, now we want to have them on the podcast.
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A
I would love to have him on the podcast. Just cause it's for real. But.
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B
But we would have to ask.
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A
Oh, we gonna have to ask. I would love to have him on the podcast. Just for real. But I can tell. But you. But you know what was. You know what was really interesting to me?
- [22:44]
B
What?
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A
It really bothered him.
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B
I know it did. I just had. And that's why he wasn't on some.
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A
Fuck y' all nigga shit. It really bothered me.
- [22:56]
B
I know we've talked about this too long. All I'll just say is, is I agree with you that certain people have certain jobs and certain people shouldn't necessarily be talking about things that they're not informed on. All I'll say is. Is. But once you do, then there's another side of it.
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A
That's fair.
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B
That's all. That's it. All right now. Quiet, piggy.
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A
Damn. Hey, while we stay on the piggy thing I'm having, I gotta talk about how I'm looking at myself in the mirror now.
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B
I saw what you posted. You gotta stop. You need to stop.
- [23:27]
A
I feel I'm not sexy no more. It's tough, man.
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B
You really need to stop.
- [23:31]
A
I used to look good. And you know what? For all y' all out there, that was like, you never really look good. That's not true, Donnie.
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B
Who said that?
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A
Put some pictures. I used to look good, man. And I'm having issues with this. Cause it's like my dad never stopped looking good. He never was whack.
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B
Can I be very honest?
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A
With you, My dad was never whack. And I'm looking at pictures and I'm like, nigga, you whack now can I?
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B
I don't like when you do this.
- [23:54]
A
I don't care.
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B
I don't like when you do this to yourself.
- [23:56]
A
Talking about real shit. You know what? Let's go to the piggy thing. Since you call me a piggy. You call me a piggy.
- [24:00]
B
I don't like when you do this to yourself because.
- [24:02]
A
Did she call me a pig?
- [24:03]
B
Cause I'm seeing this.
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A
She called me a piggy.
- [24:06]
B
Quiet, quiet.
- [24:07]
A
See, she hit me with the piggy shit.
- [24:09]
B
But I just wanna say this. I hate when you do this to yourself. I saw you post that picture. You posted a picture of you when you were smaller, and then you showed a picture of yourself. That was not flattering. That's not even what you look like. It was not a flattering picture. And I just. I saw this posted on social media of how we are normalizing the use of certain drugs that to. For people who don't know, for people who don't need it. I was at BravoCon and I was looking at people in person that I have watched over the years. And the way that we are just okay with how skinny people are getting and then praising them for how great they look is so problematic that we need to talk about this more. It's one thing if you're using it because you need it for your health or you are trying to lose some weight. It's another thing if you're just doing it cause you don't want to eat because you just want to be like, problematically skinny. And for you, when you post those pictures of you smaller and then look at your show yourself now, I actually think you look great. And that's with that respect. I say that with respect to Kalika and everything. I don't want to see you super thin. I think you look great. And I hate when you do that to yourself. I really do.
- [25:27]
A
I gotta be real with you. I don't care.
- [25:30]
D
I really do.
- [25:31]
B
Like, I don't want to see you that super skinny.
- [25:35]
A
I want to have this conversation. I want people to be able to see the vulnerability of a nigga that's washed that walks around with his Achilles sore and has to put ointment on. I want y' all to feel this because, I don't know, I feel like y' all don't feel this in real time. Like, I looked up this. Dustin Hoffman is 88 years old. That broke my fucking Brain. When I saw that, I didn't know.
- [25:55]
B
He was that old.
- [25:56]
A
And so I just want y' all to. This is called. Over the next couple of years, I want y' all to be party to something. The great washing. That's what y' all about. To witness the great washing. I had to have an MRI on my Achilles. Came back negative. Still sore. Nobody knows why. Okay. Woke up this morning, crack, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop. Went there. You know what my workout this morning was? Know my workout this morning was a lot of y' all going to the. Y' all going to the gym. Y' all getting up shots. Y' all running five miles. I played on a VR. That was my workout. I did a VR workout on the. On the. On the. On the Oculus. I worked out. That's why I did. That's why I do. Did the oculus. I did 40 pushups. Felt like I fucking climbed a mountain. The great. You know what I'm saying? After that, went. Took a shower, put the ointment on my Achilles. Feel great. The ointment going to wear off about 45 minutes and I'm going to feel like the ten man from Wicked. The great Washington. It's happening. And I never. And I watched my dad. My dad could lift like 400 pounds when he was 50 years old. These nigga was still getting the shit. Popping. It's happening. And you know what? If I have to go through it, fuck it. Y' all are gonna go through it too. We gonna be washed together. My knees hurt.
- [27:15]
B
Now slide some oil to me.
- [27:20]
A
See? See my back. So listen. Listen to this. We gotta move on. But. So I'm getting the MRI on my Achilles, right? They gotta do each foot individually, 30 minutes on each foot for the MRI.
- [27:41]
B
You couldn't just lay down and they just couldn't.
- [27:43]
A
They shout out to Optima Imaging. I did the right foot and then I did the left foot. The woman. This was very funny. The woman goes, okay, what do you want to listen to? Like, what do you want to listen to? I said, put on Ryan Chapman. Ryan Chapman is this youtuber that I really like. I was like, put on Ryan Chapman. And he's got a video about nationalism. She's like, for real? I was like, yeah, Ryan Chapman, a video about nationalism. So I listened to the whole video and then it's like, eh. I can hear from the back. She goes, the next one is about Marxism. Do you want to listen to that? And I was like, yo, do I say that? I'm kind of interested in learning about marks and Ingles and every. I was like, yeah, put it on. She goes, okay. Click. And she puts it on. They put my right foot in there for the mri. Then they put my left foot in there for the mri. I'm laying down so long that my backs are hurting. She's like, what's wrong? I'm like, hey, man, my lower back. She's like, just from laying there, I'm like, yo, just. Can we end it just. And then, you know, washed. All right, you know what it. Nobody understands. Keep trying to tell people that. Nobody. You know, this is what it's like being a black man. Okay, let's just do the Trump thing. We'll be back on the Trump thing again. Donnie, just bring it up.
- [29:10]
D
Yeah, let's do it. On Air Force One last week, Trump.
- [29:13]
A
Cut off a reporter.
- [29:14]
D
She is Catherine Lucy from Bloomberg News. She asked a question about the Epstein files, and this was how that exchange went down.
- [29:30]
A
You like it? See what I'm saying? Hold on for a second. Y' all, like, you see, this is what I'm talking about with Rachel, man. Rachel just talk about all of that stuff. Look at her. Look at her.
- [29:42]
B
Donnie chuckled, too.
- [29:43]
D
Rachel.
- [29:44]
A
No, you're chuckling.
- [29:45]
D
I thought it was.
- [29:46]
C
Yeah.
- [29:47]
A
Thank you, Donnie. Vagina. Rachel likes him. She likes em. I get so much shit. Rach be cooking me. But like. But, like, she likes him. Look. You like this.
- [30:02]
B
You know how people will say something is so ugly, it becomes cute? It's so outrageous. It's so ridiculous that I. I mean, I listened to it so many times. Cause I was like, no, he couldn't have. Wait, what? There's no way that. And apparently, you know, you keep doing research. It's not his first time. I know he's called people a pig, but it's not his first time calling somebody piggy. It's such unhinged behavior that there's something about the quiet piggy that.
- [30:33]
A
You like it.
- [30:34]
B
No, no, no, no, no. There's something about the quiet. Oh, you know who they are eating up about? Quiet Piggy?
- [30:39]
A
Who?
- [30:40]
B
Billy Bush. Billy Bush posted a video about quiet Piggy and started laughing. And people were like, are you not reading the room?
- [30:48]
A
Billy Bush?
- [30:50]
B
I mean, he goes on to criticize it, but, like, people are like, you can't laugh at the man.
- [30:53]
A
Billy, Billy. And I'm just gonna be Billy, Billy. Gotta chill. Billy went along with that shit. Billy was on some hoe shit.
- [31:01]
B
He did go along.
- [31:02]
A
Score another one for the Donald. Billy was on some hoe shit back in the day, Billy don't have no leeway to come out like, how dare Billy.
- [31:09]
B
I was actually surprised. I'm like, come on, you.
- [31:11]
A
That's your man.
- [31:12]
B
Did you call?
- [31:12]
A
Did you hit him and be like, yo, that's not right.
- [31:14]
B
No, but I don't talk to him like that. We used to work together, but I don't.
- [31:18]
A
That's what I'm talking about. Step away from that shit.
- [31:20]
B
I don't.
- [31:20]
A
I just was.
- [31:21]
B
Come on. Like, come on. But no, no, no. The quiet piggy, to me symbolizes. Because when she's asking him the question, she's obviously asking him about the Epstein files. He answers the question without answering the question, and then she follows up and he's like, quiet piggy. And it's like, oh, he can't. I mean, we know that he's upset, but it on the hills of the way that the House voted, and now he's like, oh, release the files. Him speaking out in that way, it symbolizes the unraveling of him more in a way than it does before. Yeah, he's rude. Yeah. He disrespects women. He degrades women. He uses his power dynamic when it comes to his money and his business and all of that, his fame, to continue to push women down. He hates women. Trump hates women. And it's very obvious. But the quiet piggy and the timing of it and the question that she was asking shows that he is falling apart over this Epstein thing. That was anger. That was rage. He doesn't wanna be asked about it. It goes beyond the intimidation factor that he uses. It goes beyond the fact that he's trying to quiet the press and not have them just talk about the things that he wants to talk about. It's so more than that. And I think that this is a signal. Poking the bear. He's on. He's always unhinged, but he's unraveling right now. I say we keep asking these questions, we keep poking at him. And the White House response that was like, if you're gonna give it, you have to take it. I think people should just start when old girl gets up, the press secretary, that's what should be shot. Quiet piggy. And I guarantee you they won't have the same response.
- [33:05]
A
They probably will. So you know this. You know, I love how it says a former Miss Universe contestant, as if to say that it wasn't right to call her a piggy because she was fine.
- [33:19]
B
Well, that's who she is, too.
- [33:20]
A
I get it. But it's like There was a lot of things they could have put there. This is what I said, you know. Oh, no, this is a different one right here. When they talk about this was from the past. So I apologize. But still, though, this is what I'm saying. All right, so obviously the Epstein thing is bothering Trump. Trump can't break character because you can't break character if you don't have any character. Like, you can't. Every time we get up in arms about Donald Trump saying something mean or insulting, we're actually allowing them to flood the zone and make that into the story, because that is what happens. The flooding of the zone, Steve Bannon thing is to just put as much shit in there so we don't pay attention to the story that you actually hit on, which is that Trump's base bucked him, Trump relented. Trump is taking some losses, man. Yeah, Trump lost to China. China put it on that ass. Okay? Trump lost to China. He then had China. He then had to walk back some of his tariffs because the prices were rising at a really inopportune time for Americans. Some of these beef tariffs and tariffs on other things, he had to walk those back. His tariffs are going to infuse the economy with all of this money or bring manufacturing back to America, and then lower costs. It does not seem to be working. And then you have a resounding rebuke from the most loyal parts of his party. We're talking about the Boeberts and the Marjorie Taylor Greenes of the world. That said, despite pressure from the White House, we will not relent on the Epstein thing. And all of that stuff, to me, is a really interesting political development. Whether or not MAGA has any legs after Trump used to be a story, the question is now, does MAGA have any legs with Trump? Now, if I was gonna comment on the piggy thing on its own, I will tell you why it is particularly offensive to me, okay? I hate fat traitors, man. I hate traders to the fat like Trump. I hate my worst thing is a fat boy, a fellow fat boy, acting like they not fat. I hate it. We have gone so far in fat technology. One of the pioneering fats, Bone Crusher, takes his shirt off, DJ Khaled, you know, he's fucked up on other issues. But on the issues of fat first, boom. Bone crusher. I remember on the BET Awards had a whole high caloric crew out there just fattening up, titties flying. And my thing is this. We have come way too far for the fat traitors in our Midst. If you want to take Ozempic and all of that stuff, that's cool because then you not fat no more. Whatever, Go, whatever. But for Trump to look at somebody else and call them a picky bro, you fat. You one of us, man. You are fat. How's that, Trump? Don't act like you know what you are, Trump, you're fat. And I know a plus 30 BMI when I see it. And to all of my people out there, just know. I'm not talking down on you. I'm telling you that I'm with you. I'm with you now. Look at that. I'm with you. That's a titty. And I'm never gonna turn my back on y' all ever in any way, shape or form. I'm never gonna make fun of somebody else's fat. They thighs. I was in the kitchen this morning doing the boxing game. Sweat flying everywhere. Bozeman terrified. I'm like, I'm never going to look at the disgusted look on Rachel's face. Look at what she's. People don't like hearing about the fat humans.
- [37:28]
B
And I'm telling you not to laugh.
- [37:29]
A
I'm telling you right now, what I don't like about this is Trump, you fat. Guess what, Trump, you're fat. You don't. You don't forget about her. You don't betray us by calling somebody you're fat. And you've been fat for years. You were especially fat in your first term. Fat fuck.
- [37:53]
B
I knew that was coming.
- [37:54]
A
Like, look at that shit right there. Your fat. And we're fat together. Don't you ever turn your back on us again. Ever turn your back on us again. You fat. You're fat.
- [38:06]
B
That was a great rant. Such a great rant. Only you could do it like that. I will say, though, when he called her piggy, you know, he wasn't even calling her fat.
- [38:18]
A
It doesn't matter when he.
- [38:19]
B
I know, I know. But when he's a piggy, he's calling her a pig. He's calling her slob and dis. I just want to say. Which makes it degrading. He's a slob. Disgusting, sloppy. That's what he's doing. He's calling her an animal. Not even making her human, which is how he looks at women. Trump hates women. But the fat rant was great.
- [38:43]
A
I apologize. This episode is brought to you by Hyundai. The all new 2026 Hyundai Palisade Hybrid doesn't just turn heads. It commands respect. With its stunning exterior, luxurious interior with available captain seats and spacious third row seating, and equipped with advanced technology, you and the family are making a statement before you even step out. Okay, Hyundai. Visit HyundaiUSA.com to learn more and experience the all new 2026 Palisade Hybrid today. This episode is brought to you by Whole Foods Market. At Whole Foods Market, you'll find great everyday prices for this Thanksgiving. Check out their 365 brand. No antibiot ever. Turkeys start at 149 a pound with prime with organic birds at $2.99 a pound. You'll find Thanksgiving essentials like condensed soups. I love those instant mashed potatoes like those, too. Organic baking spices. Plus low prices on everything else you need, from fresh produce to frozen appetizers. Enjoy. So many ways to save on your.
- [39:42]
C
Thanksgiving spread at Whole Foods Market.
- [39:45]
A
Terms apply. All right. On Higher Learning now we have a sitting senator. Wow, what is happening here? Brian Schatz of Hawaii. Thank you, Senator Schatz, for joining us on Higher Learning.
- [39:58]
C
Thanks for having me. I appreciate you both.
- [40:00]
A
We want to talk about one tweet. Rachel, take it away.
- [40:05]
B
Okay, so you tweeted out. Let me pull up. You have the tweet pulled up?
- [40:07]
A
Yeah, I'll read the tweet.
- [40:08]
B
Okay, read the tweet.
- [40:09]
A
The tweet says there are a lot of MAGA people online admitting that Trump is betraying them. And if you dunk on these people, you are very likely terrible at politics. Politics is about addition, not subtraction, Rach.
- [40:22]
B
Now, I don't know if I necessarily agree with you. We talked about this on the last podcast, but what were you. I'll just ask you. Wanting to communicate when you said that.
- [40:31]
C
Just that, you know, people vote for you for their reasons, not yours. And that the object of the game, if you are in the craft of politics, if you're in the profession of politics, is to get more votes than the other side. And so the threshold for, like, inviting someone into your coalition or your family is one thing, but allowing someone to say, hey, this person has betrayed me. This person who I thought was gonna lower prices didn't lower prices. This person who I thought was gonna, you know, get order on the streets is actually causing disorder. Like, we should just take the W and not ask too many additional questions. A buddy of mine who's the former governor in Hawaii used to knock on doors in the Makiki neighborhood, and when he would get the vote, he would immediately. When someone said, I will vote for you, he would immediately say, thank you as quickly as he could and walk out the door or walk out the driveway, because that's the end of the conversation. Once you have secured the vote, you move on. I think it is different when you're talking about allowing someone to become a political leader in your movement. I think it is different in terms of friendships. There's more of a need for reconciliation, an interrogation of past actions. But for me, in the business of like, we gotta win this because it is serious and people are getting harmed as we speak, if someone with whom I've disagreed all my life says, hey, this guy's bad for my pocketbook, I just take the W. And we don't have to praise them sort of excessively, but I think we should take the.
- [42:02]
B
W. Senator, what do you mean when you say don't ask too many questions? Because we've seen the videos of people who do say things like, oh, this is hurting my pocketbook. Oh, this is affecting this, this part of my life. This is affecting me in so many different ways. But then they still say, but no matter what, I still vote for Trump. So isn't it necessary to follow up with questions and to interrogate a little bit more? Cuz it doesn't necessarily mean that you got the W, you got the vote. It just means that they're just expressing, you know, they're upset.
- [42:31]
C
Yeah, I think we should move them in our direction. Right. But I think we have to move them in our direction in a way like it's hard to admit you are wrong. Right. In politics or any other place. So when people start to, you know, intimate that they may have been duped, that we just have to try to kind of smooth the way for them. I mean, I think about Tulsi Gabbard, who was, you know, part of my congressional delegation in Hawaii and who is now the Director of National Intelligence. And she was.
- [42:56]
A
Aha. So it's your fault.
- [42:58]
C
Yeah, I'm sorry, I'm sorry about that.
- [42:59]
A
But she was, you did it.
- [43:00]
C
She was a Bernie, endorsing, like left wing progressive. And when she decided to get Trumpy, like they cultivated her, they got, they feted her, they had dinner with her, they promised her things. Now, I don't think we have to be quite as amoral as that, but I do think there is something to be learned from a political coalition that sort of doesn't make sense. Right. If you're a winning coalition, you're gonna have people who are not internally consistent with themselves or with each other. And I think that the flaw in the sort of progressive movement, I think Maybe eight years ago in particular was like, it was kind of this constant purification ritual where we were trying to make sure everybody was all lined up and intersectional. And I think people just reacted adversely to that and said, like, look, I'm with you on 7 out of 10 things. Isn't that good enough? And I think we have to get back to, you know, look, they're gonna be the core of the progressive movement. They're gonna be leaders in our political party. And that's a different standard. But just like, I'm willing to vote for these guys, cuz I'm pissed off about the current state of things. Like, I'm done asking questions of those people. Rachel, to your question, if someone is saying, I'm pissed at Trump, but I'm still voting for him, that's not the W. I agree.
- [44:16]
A
So, okay, so two questions. One, I'll articulate a concern, then ask a question. Take somebody like Tulsi Gabbard. Tulsi Gabbard was a Bernie Democrat. Builds a platform as a Bernie Democrat, then gets to a certain perch of national prestige and visibility and then switches. I think a lot of these issues are so central to the humanity of people that they are wary of entering into coalition or power building with people that they feel like aren't genuine. And so while I tend to agree with you about what you're saying, I think some of the purification rituals is just to make sure that you're not letting wolves into your house.
- [45:00]
C
Yeah, yeah. So I think like, so I. Let's take the kind of neocons who, who went with Kamala, and some of them have kind of become the, the Never Trumpers. And some of those are, you know, pretty interesting people. And some of them moved left over time, but some of them are basically still neocons. And the reason they hate Trump is like, he's not neocon enough. John Bolton. Right.
- [45:20]
A
All those people doesn't want to blow enough shit up.
- [45:22]
C
Yeah, exactly. And so look, they should not be writing our foreign policy, but like, will I accept their vote? Yes, I will. And so I think being crisp about what it is that we mean to be in coalition with people is really critical. Like in the state of Hawaii, you know, the Democratic Party is really dominant and there are Republicans who end up switching parties, but they kind of retain their old views. Right. They do not become party leaders, but we welcome them in because, you know, that's one more for us. And so I just think part of what I'm trying to convey to folks is like, winning is okay, Winning is a moral imperative. People are getting really hurt right now. People are getting terrorized. People are going broke. I mean, really broke. And you both know this. And so part of progressivism, and I come from that tradition, is to fight against power, Right? And so there's this instinct that all power is ill begotten, all power is to be fought against. And sometimes we have to remember that the whole point of this movement is to achieve power so we can help people. And sometimes getting to. I mean, I remember a buddy of mine who's no longer in the state legislature, speaker of the House. And the magic number to get to a majority so you could be speaker is 26. And he was stuck at 20. And he goes, there's only 20 people that I really want to be in a coalition with. And I said, cool. You can either be the speaker or you can be in a coalition with the 20 that you agree with. But otherwise, you got to cut a deal with six human beings that you maybe think are flawed in whatever set of ways. He made a judgment that he wanted to be the speaker of the House, that he wanted to be in charge. And I think there's good. I'm not sure we've got 51% that share our values and share our views. And so you find those issues of overlap, and you get very pragmatic about it. Not because it's just all real politic and this is all a game, but actually the opposite. This is not a game. This is not a purification ritual. This is the way public policy is made. And winning, I mean, the other way to say it is like losing has actual impacts, actual consequences. And so I fear that people want to be vindicated more than they want to win. And I'm trying to make sure that the progressive movement, that the Democratic Party is, like, elevates the primacy of winning because that's the moral imperative. And all those people out there struggling want us to be the pragmatic winners. I think that's why Gavin's got momentum. I think that's why a number of governors have momentum. I think that's why people like to see the litigation. They'd like to see actual victories. And as opposed to just sort of who down the line agrees with you on everything?
- [48:11]
B
Is there ever an. Is there an example where a dunking culture could ever be okay?
- [48:15]
C
Oh, shoot.
- [48:15]
A
I mean, she likes to dunk. That's like. This is like Shaq right here.
- [48:21]
C
Yeah. I enjoyed your. You that you gave mtg. Oh, mtk A zero.
- [48:28]
A
Thank you.
- [48:29]
C
Or an Na.
- [48:29]
A
Excuse me.
- [48:30]
C
I was going to enp, but. But I think. I don't know. Rachel, that's a. It's a very interesting question I have. Sometimes it's fun, sometimes it's brutal, and sometimes you can make a point, but I'm not sure that it ever actually gets us more votes than it loses us. So I'm not sure. But it's an interesting question.
- [48:51]
A
So we've. You've been very generous with your time. One thing I want to pose to you because this is kind of an Ezra Klein type of argument. I'm sure you've read and seen Ezra Klein and some of the conversations that he's had. He said something that was really interesting. At one point. He talked about, we're gonna have to run a couple of pro life Democrats. And herein lies. The actual conversation to me is the autonomy of a woman's body is a core issue. To me, it gets to the heart of what freedom is in America and what human rights are. Right. When you say 7 out of 10 things you can agree with somebody on and that should be good enough, how much should it matter what those three things are?
- [49:40]
C
Oh, that's a really. So that's a hard one. Right? Because we're not gonna be right.
- [49:44]
A
Yeah.
- [49:45]
C
If the three ones are like, you're also a Nazi and you hate queer people and whatever.
- [49:49]
A
If. If the three are. If the three are, hey, we want to take Trump's. Bad for my pockets. But I did like what he did with taking Jackie Robinson out of the. Oh, I did like what he did by getting rid of the DOJ situation where they were suing to clean the wastewater in Alabama. And you're like, how am I supposed to build a coalition with someone who wants me to drink shit? It's just very tough. Brian, just tell us what we should do in the Brian Schatz presidency.
- [50:17]
C
Shout out to no presidency ever. So I think it's a very tough call, but I will tell you that it becomes a little easier when you're talking about a Joe Manchin, who's the only person who could represent West Virginia and the United States Senate and have a D next to his name. And so the fact that he was in my, you know, I know him pretty well, that I consider him wrong on a number of issues. It's still value over replacement.
- [50:45]
A
Right.
- [50:46]
C
And I think that's the point that Ezra is making, or at least the point that I'd like to embrace, which is you. We're not talking about running pro life Democrats in, like, Illinois or California or Hawaii. Right. We're talking about running people with sort of a kind of mix of center left, center right views so that we can win in places like Louisiana or South Dakota or Montana. Because it's always better to have a conservative Democrat in the United States Senate than it is to have a so called moderate Republican because those moderate Republicans are way to the right of your conservative Democrats. So are there, like, limiting principles that are, you know, I just can't get with something, you know. Sure, but for the most part, you're like Joe Manchin. Look, he voted, you know, he voted with us on most of the judiciary.
- [51:31]
A
Yeah, but at the same time, your friend blocked my voting rights and he blocked justice and policing.
- [51:39]
B
That's what I was gonna say.
- [51:40]
C
They get.
- [51:41]
B
They get in. But then what happens when it comes to voting on policy?
- [51:44]
A
He.
- [51:44]
C
Look, he was very unhelpful on a number of things that I thought were very important. On the other hand, had he not won, Mitch McConnell would have been the leader of the Senate. It would have been 51, 49 for Republicans. And so all those things that we accomplished while we were. While we were there, obviously short of especially the voting rights bills, but all those things that we accomplished, the biggest climate action in American history, lowering the price of prescription medicine, codifying the right to marry anybody, the first gun safety legislation in a generation. None of that happens unless, you know, this is the truth. Unless Joe Manchin is there to be vote number 50, so Kamala Harris can be vote number 51, so that Chuck Schumer can be the leader of the United States Senate and Democrats get gavels and can set policy. So did Joe frustrate me, like almost every morning? Yes, he did. Is he better for Democrats than Jim Justice? Yes, he is.
- [52:41]
A
Well, he frustrated you. He imprisoned me. And that is the. But you know what? I'll tell you something else. We're gonna get you out of here. But I saw what you did. You called us broke. Did you hear what Brian did? What Brian said? Brian said people are going broke. Like, I know y' all know. I'm like, God damn, boy.
- [53:02]
C
Listen, I work for the government. I'm quite clear. You are not broke.
- [53:07]
A
All right, before we get you out of here, what's your one issue? Every politician, I want to know, what's your one issue? What's your one issue? You got a magic wand. You change this issue.
- [53:17]
C
It is climate. I think it is the challenge of our generation. And I think we have a real opportunity here because I've been working on this issue for more than 25 years. And it was always the case that this was a moral imperative. But we couldn't always look people in the face and say that if you take climate action, it will be cheaper for you. The change that has happened with these solar and wind bans that the Trump administration is instituting is that now we can align everyone's pocketbook with the needs of the planet. Solar and wind and clean energy is now officially almost everywhere, cheaper than all the stuff that's dirtying the planet. And I think that's a generational opportunity for us to kind of switch the way people think about this issue.
- [54:02]
A
Thank you.
- [54:02]
B
Thank you so much.
- [54:03]
A
So much for joining us. Senator, I'm looking up a list of notable people from Hawaii because we need to get you some new friends. You have Tulsi Gabbard and, well, Barack Obama. Barack Obama, you can do. You hang out. You didn't even hang out with Barack Obama. Like, Tulsi and Joe, you can take.
- [54:24]
B
They gotta go, right?
- [54:26]
A
Like Barack Obama.
- [54:27]
C
We went to the same high school, 10 years apart. And I used to text his sister and be like, I'm available if he wants a ninth or a tenth for a pickup game. I never got a response.
- [54:40]
A
Brian, thank you so much for joining us on Higher Learning. We will take your words with great concern and care. And I think we have to figure out how we're going to win.
- [54:52]
B
Yeah, for sure.
- [54:53]
A
And so that is very important. Yeah. So appreciate you joining us today, man.
- [54:57]
B
Thank you both.
- [54:59]
A
Yeah.
- [55:00]
D
This is breaking from the Washington Post. It looks like the United States Coast Guard has officially changed its policy and will no longer define swastikas as hate symbols. According to the report, swastikas will now be recognized as controversial symbols, which will allow commanders to investigate the circumstances of their use before disciplinary action, which is no longer under the new policy.
- [55:24]
C
It says.
- [55:25]
D
And according to this, it looks like nooses are also included in this downgrade.
- [55:31]
C
Of from hate symbol to controversial.
- [55:37]
A
So where is this coming from? This is from the Washington Post. Exclusive.
- [55:40]
B
No, no, no. Sorry, sorry. I didn't mean, like, who's the report coming from? I meant what spark? Obviously, we know this is deplorable, but, like, what sparked this? What made them say, hey, we're gonna make these changes in our policy today. We're gonna. I'm just, like, wondering where this came from.
- [56:00]
A
So according to the Washington Post, a Coast Guard. Excuse me. The Coast Guard did not immediately provide comment.
- [56:07]
B
Of course.
- [56:08]
A
A Coast Guard official who had seen the new wording called the Policy chilling. It says we don't deserve the trust of the nation if we're unclear about the divisiveness of swastikas. The official said, speaking on the condition of anonymity due to the fear of reprisal. A Coast Guard official fears reprisal from talking about the divisiveness of a swastika. The Coast Guard and its military service branch under the Department of Homeland Security, the purview of Homeland Security Secretary Christy Noem. It's a military service branch, but the service, which has been central to President Donald Trump's increased focus on homeland defense, has been swept up like others, the administration's rash of leadership firings and broader targeting of military culture. So, you know, there've been other stuff that's going on here, and this article is quite extensive. It seems as if the Trump administration's idea of de wokening is to somewhat sanitize the swastika.
- [57:24]
B
Yeah, Whitewash.
- [57:24]
A
They want to reclaim the swastika. Swastika. Interesting.
- [57:31]
B
But interesting in the sense that Trump is with Israel, yet your administration is doing things that fall in line with antisemitism.
- [57:44]
A
Well, I think that there's an interesting conflict there.
- [57:49]
D
Yeah.
- [57:50]
A
There's an interesting traction there. Yeah. What I mean is that, like, there is a contingent of. There's a contingent of people that I know. Let me not eat around the edges here. There are ardent Zionists who I've myself talked to that say they don't care as much about antisemitism as they do about anti Zionism. Now, I can't say that that's a lot of people. I can say that. I've heard from people who say that antisemitism, which hasn't been as big a deal in America, it's certainly a scourge worldwide and has affected Jewish people in America, is less important than anti Zionism. So I guess to say that. I guess what I'm trying to say is that are there is there, and I would be interested in having the Jewish voice on to talk about this. Is there a contingent of people that don't really care about stuff like this directly as long as Trump is protecting.
- [58:51]
B
The state of Israel.
- [58:51]
A
Protecting the state of Israel.
- [58:52]
B
I wouldn't want a Jewish person. I want a Zionist on. If that's the case. If what you're saying is, well, I.
- [58:58]
A
Would want a Jewish person. And I'll tell you why. A Jewish person that's either Zionist or not. Oh, I'm sorry. Go ahead.
- [59:03]
B
I just want to say the reason I say that is because if what you're saying, and right. You're not saying this is everyone, but you have talked to people where this is. They're Zionist. Okay, maybe it's.
- [59:13]
A
Maybe it's.
- [59:14]
B
But it might be more. But it might be more. I would be interested in that because as we talk about constantly look at what happened in New York City with Mamdani, it was this talking about the rise of antisemitism and how it's growing and it's a concern. And I believe that. So how, how can someone say, well, I'm not as concerned with that as I am with protecting the state of Israel. Make it make sense. Because if you are in fear of your life, and I will say, yes, it is growing, if you are fearful of that and you're fearful of rhetoric or symbols that pour into that, how can you not be concerned about a report that comes out like this? You are normalizing symbols that are hate, hateful. It doesn't make sense to me. I would love for particularly that person to come on and talk about it.
- [60:02]
A
Can I give you what they said?
- [60:03]
B
Please.
- [60:04]
A
And we should also say this. These are two black people, non Jewish people, that are talking about what is potentially the thoughts or feelings of an entire diaspora of people. But I'm telling you why. And by the way, we should, before we begin to get into this, before we even get into this, we do not know what the response from people is going to be over this. We don't know. Right. We don't know what the response is going to be. There is a deep, deep, deep divide right now on the right surrounding antisemitism, the rise of Nazism. I watched an interview last night between Tucker Carlson and Nikki Haley's son.
- [60:53]
B
Oh, yeah, he's making the rounds.
- [60:55]
A
He is. And that interview convinced me of something. Tucker Carlson is going to run for president in 2028, and he is going to empower Nick Fuentes in some type of way in either his campaign or his administration.
- [61:12]
B
That's terrifying.
- [61:13]
A
Let me tell you why I think this. Because Carlson, with his platform is clearly choosing a side in the generational divide that exists on the right. The generational divide on the right is from the older wing of conservative thought that leans toward neocon attitudes. A little bit more hawkish, definitely more reliant and close to Israel. Right. Specific allegiance there, a little bit less directly, directly Christian. And when I say, I mean, don't get me wrong, they're evangelical Christians. But there's a generational dividend that Tucker is clearly choosing to side in. And that generational divide is between the older Contingent of the right, 45, 50 plus, that is a little bit more loyal to Israel, has the same neocon streak in them that's existed in the past. These are the older Heritage foundation people. These are the Mark Elevens, these are the. The Ben Shapiros. All of those people that represent traditional conservative thought that has existed over the past 50 or 60 years. Right. With a little bit of change, a little bit of Trumpism injected in your idea of America first and all of that stuff. We're America first, but at the same time, if we have to, we'll bomb Iran. Right? All of that type of stuff. Then there is the people that are basically 40 and below. Some people say 45 and below. I think it's more like 40 and below, who are like outwardly racist and anti Semitic. Right. These people have really been influenced by the Gruper movement. They're Christian nationalists. They're chauvinistic in a way. They have incel. Tendency tendencies. And these people are. They are completely isolationist in their view of America's place in the world. They are hostile, if not critical of the state of Israel and of Jewry itself. Tucker has clearly chosen a side. And the side that he has chosen is what he believes the future of the right to be.
- [63:48]
B
So interesting.
- [63:48]
A
And you can tell in the way that he's doing these interviews, he does an interview with Ted Cruz where he rightly skewers Ted Cruz, who is one of the mascots of that version of conservatism. Him, along with Lindsey Graham and whomever else you want to name. Right. One of the mascots of it, he skewers him on that. But when he has Nick Fuentes on. When he has Nikki Haley's son on.
- [64:15]
B
I think his name is Kayden, is he a groiper?
- [64:17]
A
He is very much aligned with that, when you listen to him, is very. I just want to understand you. I want to agree with you. I want to let. Yes. And a lot of the things that you're saying now, criticisms of Israel aside, because a lot of those criticisms of Israel, like I said before, have been used to mainstream and legitimize some of these characters who have some of the worst ideas ever. Right. Tucker is choosing a side very clearly. And he. He has made the decision, the calculation. If you ask me to say that I will be big brother to those people and bring them into. Not that you need to mainstream them. They already have millions and millions of followers. I will be big Brother to them and count on the fact that that movement will grow in the next three to four years, five years maybe, rather than admonish them and ask them to grow up and join the traditional contingent of the right. He's definitely made a choice. J.D. vance and other people have totally punted. J.D. vance has totally punted on. On talking about this. J.D. vance's wife is directly attacked.
- [65:32]
B
Right.
- [65:32]
A
J.D. vance is entirely. And he just will not speak to it. Tucker has chosen the other path. Why do I say all of this? This right here is a part of that. Situations like this and policy like this is it. This is because of the influence of the griper class of Republicans.
- [65:55]
B
So you think it's already that school of thought is influencing the Trump administration already?
- [66:00]
A
It's because I know.
- [66:01]
B
I get the Tucker part.
- [66:02]
A
It's influencing conservative thought to such a degree that it is reorienting every single thing that they stood on before.
- [66:14]
B
So would you say, if that's the case, would you say that this is the biggest, I guess, nod towards that, this is the biggest movement within the administration? Because I guess my question is, if the US Coast Guard is gonna do this, what's to stop other things within the Department of Homeland Security or any other department under the Trump administrator. Just, I mean, within the admin. This is just the first. If what you're saying is true.
- [66:44]
A
This is the thing. The thing is the let's have, let's ask questions dynamic. Right? So let's say there's something that we understand. Like we understand that if somebody shows you a swastika that is a universal sign of evil, right? The question is why? Why is it a universal sign of evil? Well, the swastika is not just the actual symbol. The cross is not just a cross. The cross is a symbol that undergirds and enforces an entire religion and really an entire way of life. When you think about the life of Jesus Christ and who Jesus Christ was, it is emblematic of sacrifice and forgiveness and tolerance to me. So when you see the cross, you think someone who sacrificed for all of that, that sign is supposed to be a sign that means, hey, you know what? Actually, I want to see the best for you. So when you saw, back in the day, when you saw somebody wearing a cross, hey, Christian, blah, blah, blah, blah, swastika, at least for since it's been taken up by the Nazis. Inverse of that, right? Swastika means, hey, I don't fuck with you. I do not. I don't fuck with you. I have a specific view of the world. And that view of the world means Your death is a part of my ascension. I'll kill 12 million of you. I'll kill 12 million of YOU to purify my country. I'll kill 12 million of you to propagate my deals. I will kill you. And not only will I kill 12 million of you others, I'll wage a war that kills 3% of the entire world. Because before I live with you, I'll burn it all down. Nazism, that symbol has been reinforced by those people even after Hitler has been dead. This is what this means. Stay the fuck out. That's what it means. Right, but the dynamic that we live in now is. Well, I'm just asking questions. What does the swastika actually mean? How many people actually died in the Holocaust? What actually is racism? Are women actually equals in this country? Do women actually deserve the right to vote? I'm just asking questions. Let's just have the conversation. The problem is, is that. Do you know what the conversation over the swastika was.
- [69:22]
B
For?
- [69:22]
A
What do you know? We had the conversation. Do you know what the conversation was?
- [69:26]
B
What?
- [69:26]
A
It was World War II. We had the conversation. The conversation was World War II. Now, I don't get into the whole thing about the purity of war and all the people that. That, but the conversation was had. The conversation was had. They want. They. The conversation was started by the Nazis. The Nazis said, hey, we would like to have a talk with the rest of the world about why we should kill all of the Jewish people in the world, enslave all of the black people in the world, and have our ideology go to every single continent and grow and grow and grow until we take over the world. They started that conversation. That conversation was had. They lost. But the remnants of it survived. And now we're being asked to have it again, and the Trump administration is going along with it.
- [70:14]
B
Well, I don't think we're being asked to have the conversation. I think they're just making decisions.
- [70:19]
A
No, this is what this is. According to the report, swastikas will now be recognized as controversial symbols which allow the commanders to investigate the circumstances of their use before display legitimately. A conversation like legitimately. The commander goes, this is legitimately. I'm just asking questions, bro. Legitimately. Hey, you have a swastika on your locker. Can we talk about that? That's literally what they're doing.
- [70:47]
B
Yes, as it is written down. No, I totally understand. That's exactly what is being said. I guess my thought. My thought process is it is, as we said at the beginning, sanitizing Watering it down. It's allowing you to basically excuse it. There will be no conversation had. It's opening up the door to not make it be as hateful as it is. It's not quite that. So, yes, as it's written, it is to question it, but the reality is it's to take it down a notch or several from what it has always represented.
- [71:23]
D
Right.
- [71:24]
A
It's to depower the image as a depower it. But all the guys is the guys.
- [71:32]
B
The guys is correct. Which it goes back to. The whole thing. Yeah, it goes back to the whole thing of with, with Trump and should Trump not try to run again or whatever he tries to do to stay in 2028, whoever comes after him, the question becomes, all right, so where does this administration, where does maga, where does Republicans stand when it comes to Jewish people? It's that direct conflict. Direct conflict.
- [71:59]
A
They can't serve two masters well, they can protect. The question to me is, and once again, we can talk about this, like, what will the ADL say about this?
- [72:13]
B
Exactly.
- [72:16]
A
What will the ADL say about this? And think about the position that the ADL will be in to have to seemingly have to admonish the administration for this. Right?
- [72:29]
B
Yes.
- [72:30]
A
But at the same time, if you admonish the administration, you're admonishing the administration that made the decision on the Golan Heights and attacked Iran on behalf of Israel and continue to fund the state of Israel and move the embassy and do all that like. So there's a tension here and I don't really know how it gets worked out.
- [72:55]
B
Yeah, I would love to have someone come on and talk about this. I mean, as we said, the new policy is set to take effect December 15th, so I wonder how much will be challenged prior to then. Hi, it's Eva Longoria and let's be real. After 40, we should ask for more from our skin care. I swear by Revitalift. Triple power moisturizer by l' Oreal Paris. With vitamin C pro, retinol and hyaluronic acid. It reduces my wrinkles, firms and brightens. And it's not a procedure, it's just a hard working moisturizer. Revitalizer. Triple power moisturizer by l' Oreal Paris. Grab it today and fragrance free or with SPF 30. Available at your local Walmart.
- [73:35]
A
This episode is brought to you by McAfee. You want to live your online life worry free.
- [73:39]
C
But with all those identity thefts and.
- [73:41]
A
Data leaks we all keep hearing about, it's not easy. Choose McAfee's award winning protection to keep those scammers away. Keep your data and identity safe. Plans start at just $39.99 for your first year. All you have to do is find out more@mcafee.com Keep it real. Cancel anytime terms apply. Guys, we have to do it again. We have to talk about guys who said stuff about the WNBA. This time it's Michael Porter Jr. Rachel.
- [74:14]
B
All right, let's get into it. Rather than Van and I just talk about it because, you know, I would have very strong opinions. We decided to bring in somebody who is an iconic, who is a legend. Angel McCaughrey, welcome to the show. First time on Higher Learning. Glad to have you here.
- [74:30]
D
Thank you. I'm excited to be here, man. I'm a big fan of the show.
- [74:33]
B
Thank you.
- [74:34]
A
Five time WNBA all star. Two time all WNBA first team, four time all WNBA second team, Two time WNBA scoring champ. Two time WNBA steals leader. Two time WNBA peak performer. Seven time WNBA all defensive team.
- [74:48]
B
Incredible.
- [74:49]
D
Look at you. Look at. So that means whatever I say, I have the accolades to back it up a little bit.
- [74:53]
A
Absolutely.
- [74:54]
B
100%. 100%. And a member of the D9. An honorary member of Zeta Phi Beta.
- [75:02]
D
Yes, ma'.
- [75:02]
A
Am.
- [75:02]
D
Are you in a da?
- [75:03]
B
I'm a Delta. I'm a Delta.
- [75:06]
A
Delta.
- [75:06]
B
And Van. Van thinks he knows everything about what we got going on. But I saw the smile. I saw the smile. I'm just saying he's got friends in the D9.
- [75:15]
A
Cause we went to Southern University in Baton Rouge where it's a big deal. But that's okay. See?
- [75:20]
D
And you ain't joined one.
- [75:21]
A
Nah, I didn't join. It's not for me. Not for me.
- [75:23]
B
But you love to be in our business. It's not for you. But you love it, love it, love it. Angel, we gotta talk about Michael Porter Jr. So Michael Porter Jr. Has had a lot to say as of late. I'm not a fan of it. I think he should just stop talking. He's been advised to stop talking. But most recently, he got on Lonzo Ball's podcast, Ball in the Family, and he had this to say, donnie, can you play?
- [75:50]
A
And I mean this as respectfully as possible, but ninth grade Lonzo Ball in the WNBA is going crazy. All right, so I would say after ninth grade. No, but before that. Because, look, in ninth grade, I'm over six feet and I'm dunking like I'm coming through the. Like, no girl in the WNBA is doing that. I'm going back door Throw it up. Like, I'm looking like Jordan out there. So I'm a just say, and I mean this so respectfully.
- [76:22]
D
So great.
- [76:22]
A
Senior, middle school day out. I give it to the wnba. I'm going to go probably eighth grade because, look, bro, I have real experience doing this because I played. My sisters went to University of Missouri, and I was still a young dude, and they had me playing, like, on the scout team and they had a few WNBA players on the team, like Sophie Cunningham and. And a couple others. And I think I was, like, in the seventh or eighth grade, going dumb. I'm talking about, like, I have real life experience. Like, it's not physically fair, bro. It's just a difference, man. And I wish this was stopping the conversation because it should be common sense, but, like, it's just not.
- [76:56]
B
Angel, why are men so obsessed with this conversation?
- [77:02]
D
First of all, congratulations. You was dominating against women in the eighth grade. What does he want? Does he want a cookie? You want a medal for that? Like, you know what I'm saying? I think the only thing that should be coming out of a man's mouth about women is uplifting her. That's the only thing. I think that if you are an 8th grader playing against elite women in Missouri, by the way.
- [77:26]
B
I love that.
- [77:28]
D
I'm from the dmv, okay? It's a different story over there. But if you dominate against women in Missouri, that's fine. It's. Listen, we need you guys. You guys, we have practice guys that come in. You guys help us be more athletic. You guys help us be quicker. You guys play great defense on us. We need you guys. That's why we have practice boys. So I'm just trying to figure out what. What do you want? I think the main thing we should be talking about a woman. Guess what? When I gotta come and drop 40 and I'm on my period and my stomach hurts and my back hurts. When y' all load, manage off a headache, anything. Guess what? Let's talk about how awesome that is. Let's talk about how awesome it is that women, we have these babies and we come back and still dominate sports. That stuff is not. Yeah, you can dunk. That's. We can't. A lot of us can't do that. But the awesome things we can do, let's highlight that. Let's highlight that. Guess what? We are wives. So it's not easy to take care of a husband and kids and come and dominate a sport. Let's talk about how. How strong and awesome that is. That's not enough talk. We get praised for. You get what I'm saying? Yep. And so if you notice real quick, the elites. Kobe don't. Don't say this kind of stuff about us. He never did. He only uplifted us and supported us. Bron don't talk that kind of stuff. Why? The elites don't talk like that.
- [78:48]
B
Such a good point.
- [78:48]
A
That is actually kind of what I wanted to hit at. I want to get at the. Whether or not he's just full of shit at another time. But why do you think that is? Why do you think that? When you see People supporting WNBA games, it's always like, it's Chris Paul, it's LeBron James, it's Carmelo Anthony. It is the players that really have cemented themselves as NBA greats that always have something amazing to say about the league. But then when you look at the players who are hypercritical of the league or always trying to talk about how much better they are than the players, it is more guys like, I'm not gonna act like Michael Porter Jr. Can't play, but it's guys with kind of his profile.
- [79:39]
D
I don't know the answer to that. We have to study that. But I do know his data is incorrect. Right. I don't think I play against grown men all the time. And I beat a lot of grown men. There are witnesses out there. An eighth grader.
- [79:54]
A
Do you think. Do you think there are eighth graders, male eighth graders? That will be too much to handle for a WNBA player.
- [80:02]
D
I think there are some, but not all. Because let's keep it real. Let's use common sense. People have different skill levels.
- [80:09]
A
Right.
- [80:10]
D
Can I beat a LeBron or Michael Porter Jr. One on one? Probably not. Right? I probably can hold my own, but I'm not going to probably beat them one on one. But the average athletic man, I can beat them one on one. So say 8th grader can beat a dumbbell player right now? No, I. I don't. I don't think many can. Now, if you're an elite 8th grader and you got the skills and you done developed and you, you on that level, you probably can give us a run for my money. But what, what, what do you want from that? You did it. You beat us. So what? There are bigger fish to fry. We're focused on our new bargaining agreement, us getting paid what we worth. We're focused on how our league is growing, how we're getting, you know, people to watch our game. It's so. It's so. It's just bigger fish to fry out here then I was worrying about that. So to answer your question, Vaughn, I don't know why, why they do that. I don't know if it's. I think they should be focused on what, what do I want my legacy to be in the NBA? How can I get better right now as a player? But the focus is always on. But we'll take it, we'll take it. If you feel like, you know, we're that good, obviously we're that good. If you got to continue to compare, that means we can obviously play.
- [81:16]
B
Yeah, yeah. It's something that you just said that I'm holding onto, which I think pours into it is the league is growing. The league has more eyes on it. Superstars, you've been superstars, right? But now there's more attention, sold out games. Like you said, you're working on a new cba, more deals are come, more eyes on tv, all of that thing. And there's a lot of attention and conversation surrounding not just the wnba, but collegiate players as well. How much of this do you think has to do with male insecurity? Cause that's what it feels like to me.
- [81:54]
D
It feels, let's say what it is. I mean, it feels like that. Cause it's like that's what you all, you guys can talk about on a pod, all this great stuff going on. Like, I'm gonna tell you guys a little story. I was 10 years old and I was playing a little boy. He was 12 and I beat him one on one. His response to me was, well, girls are not supposed to play basketball anyway. That's what a 12 year old is taught. Because I just beat you in basketball. That has been the mentality of some men for so long that let's keep these women over here, let's make sure they're beneath us so we can continue to feel like we're this and that. But like you said, the elites, they don't have to prove that they respect us, they respect our game. You know, LeBron probably could say, yeah, I can be beat you in fifth grade. You don't have to go there.
- [82:40]
B
Right? What's the point?
- [82:41]
D
It's still point in that. So I do want to know what is the point of him continuing to talk about the W? He's never said nothing positive about our women's game or anything. So what?
- [82:51]
A
Let me ask you a question. Do you think it's because we've seen lady players do this before? Like Asia Wilson was on the Roommates Podcast, she said she could breed Josh Hart 101.
- [83:03]
B
She did say that.
- [83:04]
A
She did. I mean, she said. I mean, she said that on the. She said that on the podcast. She said she could be Josh Hart 101.
- [83:10]
D
Yeah.
- [83:11]
A
Now, whether or not Aja Wilson can beat Josh Hart one on one, I don't even know if she was serious when she was saying it. But I also don't know what the deal is. I don't think that she could, but maybe she could. Is it useful in any way to compare the men's game to the women's game? Cause I'll tell you how I feel about this. There is something here that, like, it's two different games, but in a way, just like college football and NFL football are two different sports, it's almost two different sports. There's a different way to appreciate the women's game than there is to appreciate the men's game. And it seems that there is a method of thinking that thinks in order for the. The women of the WNBA or in many professional sports to be properly appreciated, that you have got to compare them to the men. And I think in the long run, that only diminishes their game.
- [84:09]
D
I think you can compare us because, like, in a way I would love when. When people tell me, oh, you the female kd. Oh, you got, you got. You play like Melo. I would love that. Yeah, Compare us. But don't compare us where it's like you're putting us down to compare us because we didn't say, yo, God, can you make us that our bodies aren't as athletic as men? Can you make it so we don't jump as high? We didn't ask for that. This is who we are. This is how we're made. Appreciate it. It is what it is. You get what I'm saying?
- [84:38]
A
Yeah, yeah.
- [84:39]
B
What if with all, like, outside of NBA, wnba, you got Big three, you have unrivaled. What if there was. And do you think this would help or maybe even unify the conversation if there was a pro coed league?
- [84:56]
D
We did that before Master P had did that one.
- [84:58]
B
Oh, did he do that?
- [84:59]
A
Yeah.
- [84:59]
B
Why did I pick his co ed?
- [85:01]
A
It was the. The. Oh, it was the.
- [85:04]
D
Who's it called?
- [85:05]
A
Yeah, coed. It was like some years ago, Master P came into. Master P was in tmz and he said to Harvey, he goes, I want you to help me get the league on tv. And Harvey went, no.
- [85:18]
B
I was like, damn.
- [85:19]
D
When we played. Cause he did some test games. It worked. I was Balling with the guys. It was some guys that weren't as good as me. It was some guys that was better than me. But the girls, when we play with, we shoot. I threw the oop the guy dunking and shit. Like it can work. You know what I'm saying? It's fun.
- [85:35]
A
So you would be down for a co ed league. You think that would be like a. I mean, Master P already did it. I like the league, but it wasn't. Gwen played in the league. Yeah, like we'd be down for what.
- [85:44]
D
But it has to be women who are elite to that level. Like, you know what I mean?
- [85:49]
A
What do you mean?
- [85:50]
D
Keep up with the average man.
- [85:51]
A
Who can keep up with the average man. I actually don't think that there's. Cause this is the deal, right? It was like, I think sometimes, and I don't really know how to say what I'm saying, men get caught up like in the dominance over sport. Like they own sports. Like sports is a man thing. Sports is a thing that men are supposed to do. So they really crowd out women by comparisons to them. We all know. Crazy. If you look at Michael Porter Jr. And his size and his athleticism, it is not hard to think that in eighth grade he was too much for some ladies. It's not hard to believe that. But who fucking. But who fucking cares? I'm wondering why for Ronda Rousey, I remember when she was making her rise, for Ronda Rousey to be taken seriously as the dominant athlete that she was. Why we have to say who could win in a fight between Ronda Rousey and Floyd Mayweather? What is the point? Like it to me, it's like I'm watching dominant athletes do dominant athletes thing things and I don't understand why the barometer has to be how well you would do against a man. I don't, I don't think I get it.
- [87:06]
D
Absolutely. Because when we bust men's ass all the time, you don't hear us recording it now. I do. I have beat some high school elite boys. Right?
- [87:14]
A
Okay.
- [87:15]
D
Just to show. And I've recorded and I posted it just to show like, yo, if you want to go to the NBA, you gotta work. I, I used to say I'm a 48, a 40 year old woman. I had two knee injuries, two knee injuries, and I'm busting your ass. You got work to do. Because in your mind you think that you're the best because they have people in their corner always telling them they're the best and they can't compare. So if I come and play them, they'll see, like, damn, this woman, even though she's an elite basketball woman, she's 40 years old, had two knee injuries, and she just beat me one on one. I got work to do. So, yes, sometimes they need to see that.
- [87:46]
B
Do you think it's okay for women to post that versus, like, if a man or a man commenting that or a woman to have that conversation versus men to have that conversation?
- [87:57]
D
I think you can do it. I think If Michael Porter Jr. Did it, it shows that, wow, I was really good at that age. I'm one of the elite, right? Because all eighth graders are. You're not going to be the NBA player. Let's keep it real. It's just. It's not. Your body's not even fully developed. If you're dunking the eighth grade, your body is developed. You are you. Because I don't see many 8th graders jumping like that.
- [88:15]
C
Right.
- [88:16]
D
As boys. So that means you developed early. You on that elite status. You got it. Congratulations. Because you're beating elite women now. It's another level you got to get to because you got to go play against that elite man. So to just pinpoint and focus on that as us women like, is that the big deal when Devon made players ain't there. That's not the goal, brother.
- [88:36]
A
Do you think it means something specifically when you post videos of you beating a man?
- [88:42]
D
It means that you have work to do.
- [88:44]
A
The man has work to do.
- [88:45]
D
Yes, you have work to do. Because I told him I should not beat you one on one. I'm older now. I've had two knee injuries. I used to be more athletic. I used to dunk the basketball. I cannot dunk now. I'm 40. But I just beat you one on one. Why is that? You got work to do. You're not as strong as you thought. You're not. You don't have the IQ you thought. So I gotta. I gotta send y' all some of my posts.
- [89:06]
B
Yeah, I wanna see the post.
- [89:07]
D
I got one. I got one. You know, we lower the rim, and the boys duck, and they try to block your shot. So I said, let me try. They said, oh, we about. They said, we about to kick your ass. I said, okay. I went. I came pumped. The back was done. They all went crazy. It's just like. So it just goes to show them that you have work to do. You still got things. You got work. You ain't all of that.
- [89:25]
B
Okay, last. Last question for me. You got the good follow. Show over there with Raz. Yes, the homie. Tell us what you got going on over there. What y' all are talking about?
- [89:36]
D
Yeah, we talking about all this new cba, the new Project B league. Look like the girl's about to get paid finally. And it's some conflict. We trying to see what the conflict with Project B and D BA about to be since the project be about to pay. Is Dumb BAE about to pay? Yes. You want to play me one on one over.
- [89:53]
B
No, he does, he does like to talk about his basketball skills.
- [89:59]
A
Like I can hoop. I didn't synced it though. Shout out to. Oh, man, Ross. Nah, man. Homegirl used to come in the gym. She worked at TMZ with me for a little while. Nisha. Nisha Butler. Shout out to. Yeah, shout out to Nisha Butler. Nisha used to come in to the LA Fitness up there in Hollywood. And that's a real basketball player. Like, this is a real basketball player. And so you'd see dudes out there like getting frustrated, like going for fakes, going for footwork. Boom, she passing it. She's actually. I think one on one is a poor barometer. And I'll tell you why. One on one is such even between men, one on one is not a true barometer of basketball skill. It is legitimately about. Like there are players who could outskill me, but I'm big. So if we in a one on one game, I'm gonna three dribbles, boom. Get you and lay it in. But if, when you would put her in a game, five on five, she would be mentally playing with people. She'd be getting off the ball, faking to it, getting it back. Now you a step slow. The shot is already up. It's going in. Like she would be playing the actual game of basketball. And if you cannot do that, you would be behind her. So there are all kinds of considerations that go into this. But I really do think that the one way to insulate these conversations and call them out for how ridiculous they are is to have a true appreciation of what women do in their sports and how fucking amazing they are. How amazing they are in their sports. And to leave men out of that conversation, like out of. Do you know how many big ass dudes that you play that are just gigantic but you can't do shit as a man? Like, as a man, we used to have a guy that would come in there, I would see him come in the gym, I'd be like, hey man, this dude cannot play basketball. He's 6 foot 10 he is gigantic. But he'll hurt you just as a man. Sometimes you are overwhelmed physically. And so, like, that doesn't mean anything. What means what really? What means something is the combination of skills you have to be able to affect the game. And just to let you know, Angel, I'm shooting that. That bitch is going in. You asking. Ask around town. You got haters.
- [92:24]
B
Well, so, no, I see how you got away with the one on one. You didn't want to answer. You wiggled out of the one on one. But if it was five against five and you leading your team and Angels leading hers, who's winning?
- [92:33]
A
Oh, she busting my ass right now. I mean, she busting my ass in one on one right now. My Achilles hurt, but, like. But my Achilles hurt. My Achilles hurt, but I'm telling you guys right now, like, I'm a big dude. I'm about six' four. And when I was playing, I was about 235, 240 pounds. That's just a lot of, like, I'm big.
- [92:54]
D
That means you ain't guarding nobody, Von.
- [92:56]
A
Oh, no, no. That's not true. I was guarding. The only thing I never understood about that is I hated to get scored on more than I like to score.
- [93:06]
B
I get that. That makes sense.
- [93:07]
A
Yeah. I just never understood dudes that, like, will go down there and do all of that stuff and score the basketball and then come back down and just have somebody score. I'd be like, he busting your ass. You don't care. Do you care? Do you cook your chicken all the way through, or is it raw in the middle? Like, do you care about the game? Anyway?
- [93:27]
D
Tell you this real quick, though. Whenever I play five on five, I specifically say to the guys, when I come to gym, I say, yo, we ain't playing agenda. Let's play. Because guys will either play you really hard because they don't want you to be do them in or be embarrassed, or they play like they don't care. So it don't look like, yeah, busting ass. Yeah. Instead of just playing. So I always like, yo, play, let's play me like I'm a dude and I gotta let him know.
- [93:51]
A
Yeah.
- [93:51]
B
I say the same thing when I go to the gym.
- [93:55]
A
I want to see Rachel out there, man. I want to see Rachel out there. But. But do you have any? Before we let you go, do you just have any? This is a narrative From Michael Porter Jr. Do you have any thoughts on him?
- [94:11]
D
He talks about the Devin Bay a lot. I think that I would love to see Him. Come practice with us one time. Come practice with us. You know, I think he needs to see the ins and outs of how hard we do work and how much we do put our bodies through. Because sometimes they just look through this lens from the outside and they don't really see the inside. And I think if he came and spent the day with us, he would have a new appreciation.
- [94:35]
A
Huh? We'll put that out.
- [94:36]
B
A call in. We like that.
- [94:38]
A
We'll put that out for him. We'll see what he says about it.
- [94:43]
D
Sound like a plan?
- [94:43]
A
Angel, I feel like I saw you going into the. Did I see you going into the gym one time? Did I see you. You ever. You ever. You ever play ball at the LA Fitness? Not the LA Fitness. At the Equinox? Yes, the Equinox. I saw you. I saw you going into the Equinox one time over there on Sepulveda.
- [94:59]
D
Yeah.
- [94:59]
A
Yeah.
- [95:00]
D
That's what I do.
- [95:02]
B
She's good friends with Joy.
- [95:03]
A
She's good friends with Joy.
- [95:04]
B
Joy, yeah. Joy Taylor from.
- [95:05]
A
Oh, we know Joy can't play.
- [95:08]
B
I did not mention her for you to do that.
- [95:10]
A
We know Joy.
- [95:12]
B
I did not mention her to.
- [95:13]
A
That's Joy. Joy and my people. That's my people. We know Joy ain't got nothing for you, though. Next time I see you, let's get some shots up, man. Let's get some shots up. Let's. Let's appreciate and love each other.
- [95:22]
B
Yeah.
- [95:23]
A
The. The. The. The level of skill that you're seeing in WNBA right now is incredible. Incredible. They hooping so good. We don't need to do this shit no more, nigga. Come on, bro. Angel, tell us. Tell people where they can see you. Like Rachel talked about it. Tell every people what you got going on. We appreciate you joining us.
- [95:41]
D
Yes, I appreciate y'. All. I got a new movie out called Bygones. You can check it out on prime. Follow me at McCarty. My last name on Social. Appreciate y' all for having me.
- [95:49]
A
No problem. Thank you, Angie.
- [95:50]
B
Thank you.
- [95:50]
A
Appreciate you, sister.
- [95:51]
B
Good to see you.
- [95:54]
A
My Achilles hurt. My. I have problems with my.
- [95:56]
B
How long you gonna use that?
- [95:57]
A
I have problems with my Achilles.
- [95:58]
B
And by the way, can I tell you that my Achilles has been. I've. I don't know if I'm in my head now, but ever since you said that, I feel like my Achilles hurt.
- [96:06]
A
I gotta tell y' all something. I gotta tell y' all what happened to the Achilles. Now shout out to everybody over at Crenshaw, the Crenshaw Y. I was playing at the Crenshaw Y, I was having a lot of fun. My game was coming back to me. You can ask niggas over there. It was good. I was like, they were calling me Maurice Spates. Is it Maurice or is it Marcus Spates? I think it's Marcus Spates they were calling. That's my game now. Do a little bit of everything. And then I changed shoes. I have to say this. I have to say this. And this is gonna piss people off. So I was wearing the Steph Curry shoes, okay? I know Steph is not with Under Armour anymore. I was wearing these shoes and I was. These shoes, y' all can say what y' all want about them. These shoes were helping me, okay? They are like little fortresses for your feet. I'm moving around and having good because I'm hooping, right? I'm back on the court. I'm like, I'm serious with it now. I was feeling good. My game was back. I was hitting the three. I was playing in the post. I was smacking shit. I was feeling good. I went to the Kobe's. The Kobe's have changed. And I'm not trying to diss the people at Nike, okay? I got the Kobe's. And I'm looking at the shoes and I was like, there's not a lot of padding at the bottom. What's gonna happen with these shoes? But they. They're the Kobe's, though. And that's why I used to wear when I was.
- [97:26]
B
So you thought you were gonna get that old thing back in the Kobe's?
- [97:29]
A
I thought it was gonna come back in the Kobe's and I bought the Kobe Low Protros and they set my Achilles on fire. And I'm not saying it's the good people over at Nike. I'm saying I went to these shoes and ever since I've worn these shoes. I wore these shoes for two sessions of basketball. I wore them at the Crenshaw Y and I wore them at the LA Fitness. Two sessions of basketball. Okay, nigga, Done. Okay, N. Done. My Achilles. Feel like you ever, like, get like a really good drumstick and the meat's coming right off the bone. That's my shit.
- [98:10]
B
But the results were negative.
- [98:12]
A
So the results.
- [98:13]
B
That's positive.
- [98:13]
A
I don't even understand the results. Don't. It's like the guy was like, the results don't show anything. Not even tendonitis.
- [98:20]
B
Okay.
- [98:21]
A
They hurt.
- [98:22]
B
Well, just continue to maybe stay off them a bit. Maybe don't go so hard in the gym.
- [98:28]
A
I Haven't been to the gym, but I've been doing my boxing on the.
- [98:31]
B
That's great Washington. Staying active.
- [98:32]
A
A great Washington.
- [98:33]
B
I'm rooting for you.
- [98:35]
A
Y' all can ask him what y' all want. I shoot that. Bitches going in. Hey, if you know me. Cause Rachel been. If you know me and you know what I do, could you please. Cause, like, I see some of y' all getting like, Vic, Dev Arky, like Ryan, like all of these guys. Like you. You guys, I've been around. Mark, like Sam, all of these guys. Y' all know what's. What the deal. Jack. Jack McClintock. Jack Bad. Jack a bad motherfucker. Remember we had Jack on the podcast.
- [99:03]
B
How could we ever forget Jack?
- [99:04]
A
Say what the fuck you want about Jack? Jack. Cause she.
- [99:06]
B
I met Jack. I met Jack.
- [99:07]
A
I. Jack is scoring. Yeah.
- [99:11]
B
Jack is a great basketball player.
- [99:12]
A
Jack. One time. We in la. We in la.
- [99:16]
B
Stay. What was the lesson? People need to do what they're good at. Jack.
- [99:23]
A
Jack a good guy. I fucking Jack. I didn't say he wasn't.
- [99:26]
B
I didn't say he wasn't. But he bombed on this show.
- [99:30]
A
He came on here. Jack is a good guy. And by the way, that's another thing. See, so that gets me back to the point. I know that that's not the right form for Jack, but you let him.
- [99:40]
B
Come on this show.
- [99:41]
A
This is a lesson for me. Jack is a great man. He's a great guy. I know that. That's like the. He's a man. Jack. We in the league. Jack. Boom. Jack said, come in n. I was like, oh, shit. That couldn't have been me. I'd have kicked him.
- [99:53]
B
What was the term he coined that? We reading culture.
- [99:58]
A
We're not going back to that. We're not going back to that fantasy culture. He's a great basketball player, Miami. He's also a great person in the community.
- [100:05]
B
I have met him. He is so nice.
- [100:07]
A
Fantastic.
- [100:07]
B
He's so nice.
- [100:08]
A
We're not doing that.
- [100:09]
B
But that was the moment. That was a higher learning moment. That's the top ten moment.
- [100:13]
A
I didn't drop 44.
- [100:15]
B
Let's go.
- [100:15]
A
37, 38.
- [100:17]
B
Okay. Tim, man.
- [100:20]
A
Wash, man. Somebody help me. Cause you just get old and then it's gone. When I was last, before we leave. So when I was getting my game back, I was like, I'm gonna get up and grab rim.
- [100:41]
B
I remember it used to be in your bio.
- [100:44]
A
So I'm gonna get up and grab rim. So this. Least this. This regular time. This this. This recent time. Yeah. So I'm gonna get up and I'm gonna grab the rim. Cause I know. Cause I was feeling, you know, weight's coming off good. I'm feeling good. Feel my legs was feeling good. Cause you're moving around. The basketball game is coming back. I'm gonna get up and grab the rim. My man, Al Albert Miles, he 47, being there, cooking. He also played professionally overseas, and he's in great shape, right? So grab rim. I reached up and grabbed the rim. I was able to successfully do that, but I grabbed it, and then in grabbing the rim, I wasn't in control. Cause I wasn't high enough. I grabbed it with this, right? And so I kind of fell back a little bit and fell off balance, just trying to muster up all of everything I could to grab the rim. It's almost like it's backwards. Cause this is the same thing you do when you're 12. You start dunking. I started dunking at maybe like 14 or 15, but at 12, it was just. Just try to get up and grab the rim. Right? And then. But when you trying to do it and you can't quite do it, it just looks all crazy. And so I thought the gym was clear when I was doing this. And I grabbed the rim and I fall back, and I'm all janky and shit like that. I'm like, God damn. And I turn around, and it's this dude looking at me, and he's like, yo, old school, you straight. Take them caps off. Do not stop learning.
- [102:25]
B
What did you. You could say anything.
- [102:27]
A
I didn't say.
- [102:29]
B
And I'm Rachel and Lizzie. This is an Etsy holiday ad. But you won't hear any sleigh bells or classic carols. Instead, you'll hear something original. The sound of an Etsy holiday, which sounds like this. Now, that's special. Want to hear it again? Get original and affordable gifts from small shops on Etsy. For gifts that say, I get you shop Etsy. Tap the banner to shop now.