Shannon Sharpe’s “Shakedown,” and Why the Earth Isn’t Flat With Dakotah Tyler

Summary

Higher Learning with Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay

Episode: Shannon Sharpe’s “Shakedown,” and Why the Earth Isn’t Flat With Dakotah Tyler
Date: April 25, 2025 | The Ringer

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Overview

This episode explores two of the week’s most heated cultural conversations. First, Van and Rachel break down the mounting legal troubles facing sports personality Shannon Sharpe, discussing the social dynamics, legal battles, and the flawed responses that exemplify dangerous patterns of celebrity behavior. Later, astrophysics PhD candidate Dakotah Tyler joins for an earnest and entertaining debunking of flat Earth theory, responding to recent celebrity pseudo-science and making a compelling case for scientific understanding over rampant conspiracy.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Shannon Sharpe’s Legal Controversy (“Shakedown”)

Background and Timeline

• Shannon Sharpe, former NFL star and sports media figure, faces a civil lawsuit alleging sexual misconduct.
• His response: released explicit texts between himself and the accuser aimed at proving a consensual relationship.
• Audio leaks and further textual evidence muddy the waters, with claims, counterclaims, and additional recordings emerging.

The Text Messages and Public Reaction

• Sharpe’s legal team shared sexually explicit messages intended to show consent.
  • “I want you to put a big black baby in me.” (Read at [25:00], attributed to the accuser.)
  • “I literally ate so much food, I look like I’m pregnant with your big black baby.” ([25:06])
  • “I’ve always wanted a black baby.” ([25:16])
• The hosts dissect whether text messages or the accuser’s OnlyFans career should influence assessments of consent and credibility.

The Released Audio & Lawsuit Allegations

• TMX releases alleged audio of Sharpe threatening the accuser: “If you say that again, I’m going to choke the shit out of you next time I see you.” ([28:11]-[28:41])
  • Rachel: “It’s not a good look, Shannon.” ([28:41])
• Lawsuit claims Sharpe forced unprotected anal intercourse after the accuser withheld consent, with evidence of her texting “no means no” and Sharpe allegedly replying, “I’ll call you later.” ([29:21]-[29:38])

The $10 Million Settlement Attempt

• Tony Buzbee (accuser’s attorney) says Sharpe’s team offered $10M to settle; Sharpe’s lawyers confirm.
• Accuser’s team rejected, seeking $50M—a detail prompting discussion over the motives and calculations of high-stakes lawsuits.

Implications for Sharpe’s Career

• Van: “I don’t think Shannon Sharpe will be back on ESPN. I think this is enough for ESPN to walk away… The audio of him threatening to choke her twice is probably enough.” ([31:27])
• The wider impact is considered: “You have to care about your prestige. Actions must match excellence.” (Van, [48:48]-[49:18])

On Victim-Shaming and ‘Community Cause’

• Rachel sharply rebukes the reframing of the case as an attack on Black men: “This isn’t about black men being attacked. I’m sorry, that’s not how I see this… You made some mistakes here, Shannon.” ([41:49]-[44:43])
• Van concurs, cautioning against weaponizing “Black pain as a get out of jail free card.” ([45:17])

Lessons on Power, Reputation, and Risk

• Rachel: “Thinking you are untouchable or invincible is a disease… They think they’ll survive it.” ([51:54])
• Van: “It is not serious at all for you to be in an exposed relationship with a 19-year-old girl. It’s just not—completely unserious.” ([47:59])

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2. Quick Hit News Analysis

Trump Admin & Tariffs

• Trump considers lowering tariffs after pressure from business leaders, not out of concern for small businesses.
  • Van: “He doesn’t care about that. But if the big swinging dicks of the business world get him in a room, he’ll listen.” ([12:46])
• Economic unpredictability and elite influence are critiqued.

Immigration Fiascoes & Deportations

• Reported wrongful deportations after drivers mistakenly cross the Canadian border in Detroit.
• Rachel: “Hauling people without rhyme or reason, fabricating a clothing item or tattoo … just shipping people like animals. I would like to think that bothers the American people.” ([20:37])
• Van: Warns the administration “overestimated American stomach for this stuff.” ([21:34])

Tesla, Elon Musk & Right-Wing Miscalculations

• Elon Musk announces he will step back from politics to focus on Tesla as profits drop.
• Van: “He desperately wants to be loved and liked… but hasn’t found community.” ([59:49])
• Rachel: “He is socially awkward… He overestimated the community he would or wouldn’t gain.” ([66:31])
• Discourse on how Tesla’s brand has suffered due to Musk’s political posturing, and cultural miscalculations about his audience.

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3. Flat Earth Theory Debunking with Dakotah Tyler

Setting the Stage

• Recent resurgence in flat Earth beliefs among celebrities (e.g., Wiz Khalifa) debated on Joe Budden’s podcast prompts a deeper dive.
  • Wiz Khalifa: “I just believe that we live on a flat… plane. It’s only because I’ve traveled so much…” ([73:05]-[73:47])

Tyler’s Credentials and Approach

• Dakota Tyler, astrophysicist, former college football player, about to earn his PhD from UCLA, leads the debunking.

Scientific Rebuttals to Flat Earth

Why the Earth isn’t flat:

• “None of our observations are consistent with [flat Earth].” ([74:18])
• Simple experiments: Watching boats vanish bottom-first over the ocean’s horizon proves curvature ([77:58]-[78:42])
  • “No matter how far you zoom in, the bottom will literally vanish before the top. That’s a test anybody can do.” ([79:28])
• “Spheres are a natural consequence of gravity pulling equally in all directions—triangles or squares don’t make sense.” ([81:32])

On why people are drawn to flat Earth and conspiracy:

• Distrust of authority, especially among marginalized groups, makes skepticism toward official science understandable, but can be misplaced.
  • “People don’t blindly trust authority… but not studying the field lets that mistrust misapply.” ([76:02])

Cultural Commentary

• Rachel: “Is it bad that I don’t care if the Earth is flat or round?” ([82:23])
• Tyler: “If your ambiguity is from misunderstanding or mistrusting science, that could show up in other areas of your life.” ([82:34])

Aliens and Astro-curiosities

• Tyler makes a strong statistical case for extraterrestrial life, though vast distances make direct contact unlikely.
  • “You wouldn’t believe how far the closest star is. Hundreds of trillions of miles.” ([85:45]-[86:09])
  • “Nothing comes in ones; I wouldn’t guess life is just us.” ([87:25])

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Memorable Quotes

• Van: “It is not serious at all for you to be in an exposed relationship with a 19-year-old girl. It’s just not—completely unserious.” ([47:59])
• Rachel: “This isn’t about black men being attacked. I’m sorry, that’s not how I see this.” ([41:49])
• Dakotah Tyler: “None of our observations are consistent with that [flat Earth].” ([74:18])
• Van: “Actions have to match your excellence, man.” ([48:48])
• Donnie: “A Venezuelan immigrant in Detroit reportedly went the wrong way while delivering food and… was deported to El Salvador.” ([17:32])
• Dakotah Tyler: “You can do this test yourself… no matter how far you zoom in, the bottom will literally vanish before the top.” ([79:28])
• Van: “He desperately wants to be loved and liked and he thought that community was on the right, and it hasn’t happened.” ([59:49])

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 06:54 – Shannon Sharpe lawsuit and media fallout begins
• 25:00 – Explicit texts read; context for the relationship
• 28:11 – Audio of threats; allegations of assault
• 31:27 – Impact on Sharpe’s career, possible ESPN exit
• 41:49 – Community and identity politics in legal strategy
• 47:59 – Critique of predatory relationships, responsibility
• 59:49 – Elon Musk/Tesla, misread of his political audience
• 70:44 – Interview with Dakotah Tyler begins
• 74:18 – Scientific case against flat Earth
• 79:28 – Boat over horizon experiment explained
• 85:45 – Probability of other life in the universe
• 88:59 – Black Space Week and black representation in STEM

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Tone & Language

• Candid, humorous, irreverent, but grounded in serious cultural critique.
• Van and Rachel both push conversation beyond headlines, emphasizing critical thinking and community accountability.
• Dakotah Tyler offers clear, jargon-free scientific explanations while relating to the cultural roots of skepticism.

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Closing

This episode of Higher Learning masterfully weaves together high-profile controversy, legal analysis, and the allure of scientific clarity. Whether delving into the lessons from the Shannon Sharpe fallout or demystifying flat Earth conspiracies, Van, Rachel, and Dakota balance raw honesty and wry humor with a deep commitment to truth and accountability.

Transcript

[Van Lathan]

This episode of Higher Learning is brought to you by mgm. If you love high stakes drama, Godfather of Harlem delivers.

[Rachel Lindsay]

I can't wait to see it. I know it has Academy Award winner Forest Whitaker. He returns as Bumpy Johnson, facing his deadliest battles yet for Harlem's future. When ruthless newcomer Frank Lucas arrives, everything.

[Van Lathan]

Changes as power shifts and new threats emerge. Will Bumpy forge an uneasy alliance with his enemies? Or will he stand tall as the undisputed Godfather of Harlem?

[Rachel Lindsay]

Well, you can find out in the new season of Godfather of Harlem, new episodes streaming Sundays on mgm.

[Van Lathan]

Yo, yo, yo, Thought Warriors. What is up? Power Learning is on. And It's Zion Lathan Jr. And it's.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Me, Rachel and Lindsey.

[Van Lathan]

I'm on magic mind right now.

[Rachel Lindsay]

What does that mean?

[Van Lathan]

So Tom McLeod. You know Tom?

[Rachel Lindsay]

I knew Tom before you knew Tom.

[Van Lathan]

Is that true?

[Rachel Lindsay]

I think so.

[Van Lathan]

He sent over some magic mind.

[Rachel Lindsay]

What's that? Is that a mushroom?

[Van Lathan]

It's some kind of mushroom thing that helps you go to sleep, then also get you focused in the morning.

[Rachel Lindsay]

By the way, this is his company.

[Van Lathan]

This is not an ad.

[Rachel Lindsay]

This is his company. So is it in gummy form? Is it in pill form?

[Van Lathan]

It's like in a shop form.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Oh, wow. So you take it before you go to sleep.

[Van Lathan]

So I took some magic mind last night before I went to sleep. And there's one formula that is supposed to drift you off into sleep and have you wake up sharper. And then there's another formula that you wake up for mental acuity and sharpness in the morning.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Which one did you take? Took them both at the same time.

[Van Lathan]

One last night, Rachel. And then one in the morning.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Oh, you said night in the morning. And how do you feel?

[Van Lathan]

It's. I can't tell the difference. It's fine. No, no, no, no. I did sleep a lot better last night.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Do you have crazy dreams?

[Van Lathan]

I didn't.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Then get rid of it.

[Van Lathan]

Why?

[Rachel Lindsay]

Because I live for your dreams.

[Van Lathan]

Okay. Yeah, Yeah. I didn't. I had crazy dreams a couple of days ago. I dreamt that I was super short, but that I could jump, like, ridiculously high.

[Rachel Lindsay]

See what I'm saying?

[Van Lathan]

Like, a couple of days ago, I dreamt that I was super short, and I was very upset about it. I was in New York, but it was.

[Rachel Lindsay]

You were? Sure, King.

[Van Lathan]

I was really upset about it. I was in New York, but it turns out I was really in Chicago.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Okay.

[Van Lathan]

I thought that I was in New York, but I was really in Chicago. Maybe. And so I was super short and I was really upset about it. But then I went to the basketball court and I jumped and I was over the rim throwing the ball in. And then I felt better. So.

[Rachel Lindsay]

So you were bow wow. You were like Mike.

[Van Lathan]

Like Mike. Like Mike.

[Rachel Lindsay]

You were like Mike.

[Van Lathan]

Shout out. Bow wow. By the way, like Mike.

[Rachel Lindsay]

This is what I'm talking about. It really needs to be a segment. So if this is going to mute your dreams, I don't like it. Drink the one in the morning.

[Van Lathan]

Here's the only problem with that. Do you know what my sleep score last night was? 50 94.

[Rachel Lindsay]

That's good. I don't want it. I told you, I don't.

[Van Lathan]

Magic mind. 94.

[Rachel Lindsay]

So it works.

[Van Lathan]

7 hours, 6 minutes of sleep, 58 beats per minute. As far as my heart.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Like, is that good? I don't know.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah. Well, for me, my heart gets pretty low when I'm sleeping. I have a low resting heart rate. But it was good as far as, like, me and the mental acuity part. I guess it takes a couple of days to kick in.

[Rachel Lindsay]

What's the average. What's your average number for sleep?

[Van Lathan]

My average number for sleep. Let's see, there's a whole.

[Rachel Lindsay]

I know mine would be bad.

[Van Lathan]

I like the look. There's a whole way that you can look at it on the oura ring, but I'd have to look it up and I don't know how to.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Okay.

[Van Lathan]

But you know why this is important. Ever since I've been on Lexapro, which has been a while now, I'm not as sharp. People probably can't tell. If you listen to the podcast enough, sometimes you can tell me, like, searching for a word, that that doesn't happen when I'm not on Lexapro.

[Rachel Lindsay]

But you consistently take it.

[Van Lathan]

I know, but what I'm saying is, prior to me, Lexapro is a net good for me. But it gives me brain fog.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Well, I mean, Lexapro isn't the only type of drug like that you can take. Maybe you should switch it up. I know it takes time for it to, like, get through your system and to even out, but if it's making you foggy, maybe you should try a different one.

[Van Lathan]

I'm weaning off of it. Actually, I'm weaning off the Lexapro. Okay. Now, if the panic attacks come back, I'll be back on the Lexapro. But I'm weaning off of the Lexapro. I've talked to my doctor. I'm weaning off of it because sometimes I hear myself And I'm like, oh, my God, man, you're stopping. You're stammering. You're studying a little bit. The Lexapro is a big deal as far as that's concerned. And I never used to need coffee. Never used to need coffee.

[Rachel Lindsay]

I just thought you enjoy it. See, like, I don't really need it.

[Van Lathan]

You enjoy Lexapro.

[Rachel Lindsay]

No, no coffee. I don't really need it. I love the routine of coffee. I love waking up in the morning and having just, like, the smell of the coffee. And it's a little commercial. Yeah. Like making it up and stirring it and walking over to the couch. I just love the routine of coffee.

[Van Lathan]

It's for your crew. The best part of waking up is cocaine in your cup. For Rachel's crew.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Take that out. No, we don't start that.

[Van Lathan]

Rumors.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Don't start rumors like that. I'm over here talking about my joy of coffee. I'm literally talking about my joy of coffee and how I love it. And you want to throw in some.

[Van Lathan]

Just cocaine in your cup. Leave that in.

[Rachel Lindsay]

We have HR issues on this podcast because I don't want somebody to clip that and actually think that's how I start off. I start off my morning with a cup of coffee and a bump.

[Van Lathan]

This episode is brought to you by Universal Pictures. Would you sell your soul for greatness? What would you be willing to sacrifice? Find out on September 19th in the new Jordan Peele produced horror film him, only in theaters, starring Marlon Wayans as the greatest football player of all time and Tariq Withers as his up and coming protege. Directed by Justin Tipping and produced by Monkey Paw Productions, Never Meet yout Idols. Him hits theaters September 19th. This episode is brought to you by Hyundai. Who says you can't be the topic of conversation for all the right reasons. The Hyundai Tucson hybrid pairs bold presence with advanced technology and sleek style. It's everything you didn't know you needed in an SUV and then some. Okay, Hyundai. Visit HyundaiUSA.com to learn more. We have to get into the show.

[Rachel Lindsay]

About the Shannon Sharp mean.

[Van Lathan]

Wow. Whoa. It's already. It's already a thing. A Shannon Sharpie is already.

[Rachel Lindsay]

I think it's a thing.

[Van Lathan]

You think it's a thing?

[Rachel Lindsay]

It's a verb now.

[Van Lathan]

It's a verb. Shannon Sharpie. All right. We have Dakota Tyler coming on later to talk about flat Earth.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Sadly, we have to talk about. We have to entertain this.

[Van Lathan]

You guys made this happen. In the last couple of weeks, I've seen three or four different flat Earth conversations. I hate That I have to do this to Mark. Mark Lamont Hill.

[Rachel Lindsay]

He should have done more.

[Van Lathan]

What do you mean he should have done more?

[Rachel Lindsay]

I was surprised Mark didn't push back a little bit on who Wiz.

[Van Lathan]

Oh, no, but that's not. They've been fighting that battle over on the JBP for a while now.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Okay.

[Van Lathan]

And Mark's, you know, he's doing the work over there, the jbp.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Is he regularly on it now?

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, he's part of the show.

[Rachel Lindsay]

They need him.

[Van Lathan]

I mean, he's bringing a lot to the show. The show is.

[Rachel Lindsay]

I would agree the show is a.

[Van Lathan]

Lot better with Mark over there. And it's a lot better with Mark over there. Not just because Mark is elevating discourse in certain areas there. It's because they're actually a lot more malleable to his ideas than you would have thought. I think a lot of people would have thought that there'd be tremendous pushback and all of that stuff. But it's sometimes the conversations that don't get happened that don't happen on these platforms. When you have someone that comes from strictly academia and then you have people that are very industry smart, but they're street smart, you don't see those conversations a lot. And a lot of times you think that there would be this incredible tension. And there is tension all the time. Don't get me wrong. There is tension all the time. But for the most part, the conversations end up out of the wash being like, pretty good. And you can tell he's getting through to a group that might not be as cause. Mark is a leftist.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

Might have not heard a lot of.

[Rachel Lindsay]

His perspectives before, so I didn't know he was on it regularly. I was just. Every time I see a clip now he's there and I'm like, oh, okay. Like, maybe he's, you know, coming in once a month or something. Mark is. I think that's the genius of Mark. I think he can come in, have a conversation, elevate the conversation, and, you know, get people to not take his ideas, but kind of say, like, okay, that makes sense.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just. It's about being open to a different perspective now. Look, this is what I'll say.

[Rachel Lindsay]

What?

[Van Lathan]

I'm not talking about what happened on the jbp. I'm talking about. Listen, on Night School, which is Mark's YouTube platform, it was last week that for some reason, Mark decided to platform a guy who had been trolling him on Twitter. Um, and he had challenged Mark to a debate a Couple of times. And Mark decided to, like, invite this guy on, and they were gonna have a back and forth.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Did you post this?

[Van Lathan]

I posted part of it.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Okay.

[Van Lathan]

Did you see it?

[Rachel Lindsay]

No, I just saw you posted it.

[Van Lathan]

I watched it. I watched the entire. The entire conversation between these two, and it is fucking hysterical. This guy was not just a flat earther, but he was, I think, a social anarchist in terms of the way he viewed government, which. It's interesting that if you know anything about Mark or if you've read Mark and I have, and I've known him for a while, then some of the societal observations that the gentleman was making. Mark is, like, not totally against him, but the dude was so unhinged. A Sigma. He was so unhinged that the conversation was just ridiculously entertaining. I know Mark would never do it. I think he should bring the dude on once a week and just.

[Rachel Lindsay]

No, don't.

[Van Lathan]

That shit was funny to me, son. Mark had to check him. He had to check him on that. And Mark can be a little shit, too. Like, he knows how to. He's very smart, and he knows how to get those little disses in there, too. He handled it perfectly and beautifully, but I was thoroughly entertained.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Let's just let that moment live in time. You probably can't make magic every single week or every single month because the dude was.

[Van Lathan]

Dude was.

[Rachel Lindsay]

The dude's been waiting for this moment is probably what happened.

[Van Lathan]

He has, he has, he has. All right, Donnie. Quick hitters, quick hits.

[Donnie]

First one is stock markets. They rose yesterday after Trump suggested that tariffs on China could drop substantially as his administration negotiates trade deals with dozens of countries. So the economic rollercoaster continues.

[Van Lathan]

He blinked. He blinked.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Were you shocked? You know, as the macroeconomist on this podcast. Van Lathan, Macro Economist.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Were you? Did you think that this would happen? And maybe if you did, maybe not this quickly.

[Van Lathan]

It's impossible to know. Seriously, it's impossible to have thoughts on this, because having thoughts on Trump's strategy with the tariffs would indicate that there's some rhyme or reason to how this is being rolled out. So it's very difficult to have thoughts. He could say that he's going to be nice to China now, have a conversation with Kid Rock, and then next week, the tariffs are 300% sure. Right? So apparently, in this situation, some business leaders from different retail chains came to the president and said, hey, in the summer, you're gonna see empty shelves and you're gonna see high prices, so you're gonna have both supply chain Issues with products being on the shelves. And then the products that we do have, they're gonna have, like, incredibly high prices.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Yeah, yeah.

[Van Lathan]

So that, for some reason, made Trump back off things a little bit.

[Rachel Lindsay]

I don't know why. That's what. It's not like people haven't been saying that to him before.

[Van Lathan]

Trump is an elitist to the point to where it doesn't matter if the small business owner with the Barrett factory, which I saw someone on cnn, black lady and her daughter that started this Barrett company, it was a very beautiful story. And they were talking about how this is going to affect them. It doesn't matter if those people from See the Shining Sea say, hey, our businesses are gonna be affected by this. He doesn't care about that. But if the big swinging dicks of the business world get him in a room, he'll listen to them. And you're looking at all of these governments, all of these administrations have elitism and oligarchy baked into them in some form. But you're looking at it in the most direct, transactional way that I think that we've seen as far as a president who makes policy based upon what important people tell him to do next. Donnie.

[Donnie]

All right. Florida Representative Byron Donalds had a town hall in which he was yelled at over and over again. Here's a little bit of it.

[Van Lathan]

Are you ready? You ready for the other half of it? The previous president, President Biden. So you don't want to hear. You do not want to hear the full story.

[Rachel Lindsay]

You don't want to hear the full story.

[Van Lathan]

Allow me to educate and bring you.

[Rachel Lindsay]

The full story.

[Van Lathan]

When you're ready.

[Rachel Lindsay]

I'mma tell you because I don't want.

[Van Lathan]

You to yell and not hear the full story because you're not listening.

[Rachel Lindsay]

You're not.

[Van Lathan]

Here we go.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Is it true that he was talking not to his constituents, but to a group of Democrats?

[Van Lathan]

I'm not sure. He might have been. Donny, look that up for us. He was at a town hall, though, down there in Florida. So it could have been a more liberal group. I think that. I mean, it certainly appears to be a more liberal group, being that they had some. The way they were booing and yelling probably was saying. But look, I think the thing is this. The. The legs, the stamina of the Joe Biden administration did this. I think we're at right about 100 days of the Trump administration. I think the stamina of that argument has already worn out.

[Rachel Lindsay]

I think that's done.

[Van Lathan]

I don't think people are going to watch their 401ks evaporate, watch prices go up, deal with Elon Musk being a part of their life, the most annoying man on planet Earth, and go, oh, my God, Joe Biden did this. So whatever. I don't think people are gonna.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Or even saying when he started talking about, well, Obama did. It's like, nobody wants to hear that. Obama was years ago. We're talking about right now. And I mean, which is part of the reason Trump got in office. It was about the what can you do for us right now? That's all people want. I don't think that they wanna hear about Biden. They don't wanna hear, oh, Barack Obama did this. What are you gonna do for us right now?

[Van Lathan]

You know what's funny? I think you're right. The funny thing is, you know, we criticize. I've criticized the left for not having a concrete version of. Excuse me, a concrete vision of America. See, there it is right there. Concrete vision of America. I've criticized. I want to hear vision, I want to hear plan. I want to have all of this. And then the Trump administration is in power right now, and there doesn't seem to be a cohesive vision. They seem to be floundering on immigration. The mass deportations that they promised, the bloodthirsty xenophobes has not. They have not come to fruition. They are removing people who are illegally, and they're in a battle with the courts. There you have economic strife from the tariff plan. It seems they're. Trump mentions Biden. I think it's around six times a day. It seems like for all of the vision or whatever, the dystopian vision that the Trump administration promised, their most solid messaging is about how much they don't like Joe Biden.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Yeah, that's what got him into office.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Rachel Lindsay]

It's just not sustainable at this point with the way that the decisions he's making are affecting the economy and just the citizens in this country, period. I do think the difference that they have that the Democrats don't have is they do have a leader in Trump, and people are willing to do whatever he says, how he says it, when he says it, even if it's being challenged in court, even if it makes absolutely no sense, they are getting behind whatever Trump says, and that is something that the Democrats don't have.

[Van Lathan]

Last one, Donnie.

[Donnie]

All right, last one. A Venezuelan immigrant in Detroit reportedly went the wrong way while delivering food and ended up crossing the Canadian border and was taken into custody by US Authorities and deported to El Salvador. This is something that's super easy to do in Detroit, take that wrong turn. And I think that's not the first. Yes.

[Van Lathan]

In Windsor, right? You'll end up in Windsor.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Windsor, Ontario, you can just go straight through. Nobody checks your passport, Nothing.

[Donnie]

No, you. You take a wrong turn on the exit, and then you end up being at the border within. They check your passport and ask your question about why you're trying to cross the border. And you can say, I made a wrong turn on the exit. And then that might lead to more questions. I've done that once a while ago, and I've almost made that exit several times afterwards. But that one time was enough for me to be like, all right, I've got to watch where I'm going.

[Van Lathan]

So what happened that one time when it happened to you? What they do.

[Donnie]

I got asked questions about where I was going. I said that I made the wrong turn. They asked if they could search the car. I said, sure, because I had nothing in there to hide. They searched, and then they let me turn around, and they watched me turn around just to make sure I wasn't going to Canada, despite what I said. So, yeah, that was, like, in 2008. I feel like security has changed in the. Almost 20 years since then. So it's. It's a scary situation, for sure. And I. I've read that this is not the first time that this happened. I think a couple of months ago or weeks, there was a man who was with his family, and he was questioned at the border and detained for a weekend after it was determined that he was not an illegal immigrant. He and his family were released at the Canadian border.

[Van Lathan]

So.

[Donnie]

Madness.

[Van Lathan]

So he had only been here for a couple of months, made a wrong turn. And, you know, this had happened in March as well. I'm reading right now on the Detroit Free Press's site that a family had done this, and they were on their way to Costco, and they were detained by immigration agents for several days before being released. Now, you know, this guy has been sent to El Salvador. His deportation was not listed publicly, but they said that that could have been an oversight. You know, what is interesting about these differing instances, you know, obviously, the Garcia case, which has garnered a lot of attention, and you had a US Senator go down to El Salvador. The American stomach for this stuff is. I think the administration overestimated how Americans were gonna stomach this type of stuff. It was one thing in rhetoric, but it's another thing in practice. I think in.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Well, there's a difference.

[Van Lathan]

Okay.

[Rachel Lindsay]

I'm just saying. Sorry not to cut you off, but I'm just saying what they said is not what they're practicing. And that's why Americans can't stomach it. You know, people don't want to see. I don't think people. I think everybody would like due process to be respected. And that's. And you just hauling people without any type of rhyme or reason or not rooted in anything, or, you know, fabricating a clothing item or a tattoo and saying that this is the reason that this is happening and just shipping people like animals out. I would like to think that that bothers the American people. It's one thing when you say criminals or people who came like illegally and then they go through a process and then they have to go back because they didn't do things the right way. It's a whole nother thing to just say, like, I don't even look at you as a person and I'm sending you back, and I'm sending you back in the worst way possible.

[Van Lathan]

Particularly some of the brothers that I knew that I know that were like friendly or willing to listen to Donald Trump. It bothers them because they come from a place where law infringes upon their rights all the time, to where they're illegally searched, to where they feel like they've had stuff planted on them. They get railroaded in the court system. And look, not all of these people have sterling criminal records, but they do feel that the court system and the criminal justice system should work fairly. And so when you say, hey, they just picked this dude up, didn't give him his day in court, and just shipped them off to El Salvador, they go, well, you can't do that. That ain't right. Like, why would they do that? And the first thing I always get is, now they couldn't have done that. There has to be some other reason. And I'm like, no, man, this is the deal and I'll stay on you for three days. Look what happened in this case. Look what happened in this case. This is the way it's supposed to go. Well, he was a gang member. I'm like, would you. For you. Would you appreciate someone saying that you're a gang member just cause you have a tattoo? And if it goes through an investigation and the judge says, hey, he's not a gang member. And they say, no, he is. And they just ship you out of here. And they go, hey, but he's not an American citizen. I fought this battle. I'm like, hey, my man, if you are here in America, you have rights, and these are the same rights that protect you. Once again, I think that the administration is overestimating. I'm not talking about the die hard MAGA people. I'm talking about a lot of the people who swung the election this time. I think that they're overestimating the stomach for this stuff that the American people have. I really do. Um, all right. Gotta get into it. It's the only story that anybody's been talking about all week. Donnie.

[Donnie]

All right, Shannon Sharpe. Following news of the civil suit that was filed against him, his lawyers shared a series of text messages that they claim clearly indicate the nature of their relationship was consensual and sexual in nature, and in many cases initiated by her with specific and graphic requests like.

[Van Lathan]

Donnie, you're gonna. We need you to leave.

[Rachel Lindsay]

What?

[Donnie]

Some of the requests include a big black baby.

[Rachel Lindsay]

No, no, no, no, no, no, no.

[Van Lathan]

No, no, no, no, no.

[Rachel Lindsay]

The people need to get black baby in me.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah. No, no, no, no. Hold on for a second. Hold on. You're rushing. You're being like you're rushing. Don't rush.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Some people might not be up to date on the story, right? They need to understand the gravity of the situation.

[Van Lathan]

She was texting him and, like, set the mood. Like, she was saying what to him? I'm just gonna read what's in the rundown, Donnie. Okay, listen, we're making a show here, all right? This is infotainment at its best. That's what we do here at higher learning. So just think about the mindset she was in, what was going on, and please just read the text messages. You know, we don't have Studio's book.

[Dakota Tyler]

For a couple hours here, all right?

[Donnie]

She says I only got what's in front of me, so I'm. I'mma read what's in front of me.

[Van Lathan]

Okay? Go for it.

[Donnie]

And it is.

[Van Lathan]

I want you to put a big.

[Donnie]

Black baby in me. And he's like another example.

[Van Lathan]

Read.

[Donnie]

Number two says, I literally ate so much food, I look like I'm pregnant with your big black baby.

[Van Lathan]

Oh, my God, Donnie. Jesus Christ. Number three.

[Donnie]

Number three. I've always wanted a black baby.

[Van Lathan]

Wow.

[Donnie]

She didn't say big this time, Shannon. After these text messages were released, he also posted a video that was in response to the lawsuit.

[Van Lathan]

Let's hear that real quick. Let's hear that.

[Shannon Sharpe]

To my family, friends, supporters and colleagues, I want to speak to you directly and from the heart. This is a shakedown. I'm going to be open, transparent, and defend Myself, because this isn't right. This is all being orchestrated by Tony Busby, who has targeted Jay Z. Tony Busby targets black men and I believe he's going to release a 30 second clip of a sex tape that tries to make me look guilty and play into every stereotype you could possibly imagine. That video should actually be 10 minutes or so. Hey, Tony, instead of releasing your edit, put the whole video out. I don't have it or I would myself. You know what happened and you're trying to manipulate the media. The encounter in question took place during the day at her invitation. And now that appears to be a deliberate setup coordinated by Gabby, also known as Carly on Onlyfans. Gabby and Tony Busby want $50 million. What they're getting is sued for defamation and trying to take me down. My career is all about real talk and honesty. I know my family and fans know exactly what this is about. And I'm going to be out there telling you whatever I need to say, just like I always do. I love all you guys.

[Van Lathan]

Thanks. Now that that video was actually just so we have the timeline correct here. The suit comes out, then Shannon Sharp and his team release explicit text messages where they're indicating that they were in a consensual relationship. And she's talking about, put the big black baby in me. And by the way, Donnie left out some stuff. Donnie, find the baby batter stuff. Okay. And then, you know, once you find it, please read it. But this video that you just saw from Shannon Sharpe was actually in response to audio that came from tmz. That audio is of a conversation between Gabby and Shannon where Shannon seemingly threatens her.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Yeah, let's hear it.

[Van Lathan]

Allegedly Shannon. But it sounds like Shannon Sharp.

[Rachel Lindsay]

It sounds like Shannon.

[Van Lathan]

Wait, let's hear that.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Well, you're coming to LA tomorrow.

[Van Lathan]

Yes.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Well, I don't know why you want to go out.

[Van Lathan]

Don't worry about it.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Well, okay.

[Van Lathan]

Okay. What?

[Rachel Lindsay]

Well, I'm not really interested in getting choked, so I guess we're going.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, I might choke you in public. Big black. I choked small white woman.

[Rachel Lindsay]

It's not a good look, Shannon.

[Van Lathan]

Not a good look that you did with the shit you did to me. That's the second one. The first one is a piece of audio where she says, hey, I don't like you manipulating me. And then he gets exasperated from her saying that and goes, if you say that again, I'm gonna choke the shit outta you next time I see you. And then there've also been text messages released. And those text messages show that there was a conversation that they had where she tells Shannon, which is what's alleged in this lawsuit, that no means no. Shannon.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Right.

[Van Lathan]

She alleges that they were having a situation, a sexual encounter, and Shannon didn't wanna wear a condom. And then he forcibly anally raped her, anally penetrated her without her permission. And. And then she says no means no in that. And he responds, I'll call you later.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Right.

[Van Lathan]

So those are all of the accusations, all of the allegations. This stuff had just dropped. When we did the last podcast, we did not have the opportunity to get all the information. And so it seems like there's more stuff trickling out every day. Tony Busby, who's a lawyer in this situation, we talked about this before, said that there was. This has been in mediation. See, this has been in mediation for a while. Tony Busby said that $10 million was on the table, and they rejected $10 million from Shannon Sharp.

[Rachel Lindsay]

And his attorneys confirmed that they did offer.

[Van Lathan]

They offered $10 million that they offered. That was rejected.

[Rachel Lindsay]

So not Tony Busby. Shannon Sharp's attorneys confirmed that he. Right.

[Van Lathan]

Tony Busby said. They said. They said that. And then Tony Busby. Then the Shannon people came back and said, yeah, that's true.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Yeah. To my knowledge, Shannon Sharpe has not said that. That is not him in the audio recordings. It's being alleged. Her side put it out there. It is my understanding he has not denied that. That's him.

[Van Lathan]

Just have to say alleged just to cover the ass of how.

[Rachel Lindsay]

No, no, no, for sure. Because I'm saying that to say when you talked about the text messages that were sent January 2025 about where she says no means no. It's important to note that he didn't confirm or deny that either. He said, I'll call you later.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Rachel Lindsay]

He also has said that he believes he's anticipating more things to come, which I believe he can speak to that because this has been in mediation for a while. So I do think that his side is aware that her side has recordings, videos, text messages, which is why he probably wanted to settle. But he did say that there's a video that he believes that is coming out. There's only gonna be 30 seconds of it. He's already claiming that it's altered and he wants the full 10 minutes or so released.

[Van Lathan]

Yes, yes.

[Rachel Lindsay]

That's important to say, too.

[Van Lathan]

Right. Here's the thing. Okay, So a couple of thoughts here. The first thought is, I don't think that Shannon Sharpe will be back on espn.

[Rachel Lindsay]

I don't know how he could be.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, I don't think that Shannon Sharpe will be back on espn. I think that this is probably enough for ESPN to walk away from Shannon.

[Rachel Lindsay]

It's strike two I.

[Van Lathan]

For him.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Yeah, yeah.

[Van Lathan]

I mean there's talk now about how many different instances of this that have gone on with him.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Well, yeah, it's out there. It's written. There's other lawsuits that have been filed.

[Van Lathan]

Right.

[Rachel Lindsay]

That are similar in nature, other accusations.

[Van Lathan]

That have been made. Okay. So I think that ESPN is done. I think the audio of him threatening to choke her twice was probably enough for ESPN to be like, we don't want Shannon Sharpe around anymore for sure. You have two different platforms. Nightcap, which is a nightly show that he does with Ochocinko and then Club Shay Shay, which is of course wildly popular long form interview show that he does. One of the shows was he's in free agency with. He's looking for a new company to come along. It's probably gonna get a bit bad for it. And the other one he's been doing nightly, despite everything that's going on and not addressing it. Why are we talking about Shannon Sharpe's career here when there's an alleged assault that has taken place? I'll be completely honest. I do think that with the amount of text message screen grabbing and the amount of recording of conversations that there is at least a part of this from this young woman where she wanted to get Shannon Sharpe. I do believe that now I don't think it matters.

[Rachel Lindsay]

A lot of people are focusing on the text messages and the nature of the text messages and using that as a reason to say, oh, she was trying to catch him up and they feel sorry for him or they're taking his side in this situation. I was looking at he won a Webby award for Club Shay Shay and maybe something else. And I was looking at the comments. He posted it yesterday and I was looking at the comments. All the comments are uplifting to him, supporting him. We stand by you. She can't stop you. We, we like all of that. Totally ignoring, basically making a decision off what's been put in front of them and totally ignoring that there it making room for the possibility that there could be a victim. And I think it's hard for people to look at some of the text messages that were said, to look at the fact that she's young, not black and an onlyfans model and come to the conclusion that this was a setup. But what people fail to realize is let's she might, I mean she not might. She wrote these things. She might like things, sex in a certain way. But that doesn't mean that she is asking for it like that every single time. And you can't assume because on Friday you had sex with someone this way, that that means on Wednesday you get to have sex with them the exact same way. She's saying that she said no. If that's true, and that's the thing. We don't know. We don't know. And I actually do like the way Stephen A. Smith talked about this. We weren't in the room. We don't know the nature of their relationship. We have no idea what happened. We don't know if this was a plan, if it wasn't. If he did do the things that she alleges, we have no idea. So I think that's why. When you say, why do we speak about his career? I think because he's a public figure, you kind of have to talk about, well, what happens next? How does this impact him as a public figure? Because none of us can say what's true or not. When it came to what went down in their sexual relationship, what was consensual? What was alleged to not be consensual.

[Van Lathan]

The reason why I think it's important to talk about whether or not this is coordinated is for a couple of reasons. One, because it exemplifies to me the breathtaking irresponsibility that Shannon Sharpe moved with in this situation. The breathtaking irresponsibility that Shannon Sharpe moved with in this situation. Okay. Shannon Sharpe asked, allegedly, apparently, this young lady for an NDA a couple of different times. She said no every single time to the NDA. He asked her to sign NDAs three different times, and she said no. This is what's in the document. She said no three different times to sign an NDA.

[Rachel Lindsay]

And he kept going.

[Van Lathan]

And he kept going. That's in the lawsuit. And he kept going.

[Rachel Lindsay]

We see this so many times. And I whispered, men. But it really. I think it's. It's a mixture of, yes, being a man. It's a mixture of power, it's a mixture of fame. It's a mixture of being accused of certain things in the past and it not sticking. It's a mixture of being accused in the past, being maybe released from a job and bouncing back bigger and stronger because of your name or your talent and thinking you're untouchable. That's the only rhyme, the only thing I can reason as to why your logic doesn't kick in of you are asking for an NDA she is telling you no. She is telling you no for a reason. Because why wouldn't you sign an NDA.

[Van Lathan]

If you want to legitimately be with Shannon Sharpe?

[Rachel Lindsay]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

Why wouldn't you signet Sharpe for whatever.

[Rachel Lindsay]

If I dated a public figure and they asked me to, and I was into them and they asked me to sign an NDA, I'd be like, where? Yeah, it hurts you in no way. Unless you're trying to profit off of it.

[Van Lathan]

Right. She didn't want to sign the NDA. They continue.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Or can I just make space for this? Cause I just said something wrong. Yeah, I said unless you wanna profit for it, or if something happens to you that you do not agree to, you wanna feel like you can fight for yourself in the legal system. I need to make room for that.

[Van Lathan]

So, by the way, the story is out there. I've done the research. He pursued her. This happened at my gym. So I've been asking around the gym about that.

[Rachel Lindsay]

They met at the gym.

[Van Lathan]

They met at the Equinox, where I see Shannon Sharpe and stuff like that. Asked for that. That didn't happen. They move on. The relationship becomes, I guess it evolves to a point where she thinks it's exclusive and it's actually the Instagram recording of the woman that sets this lady off. A lot of people believe that Shane Sharpe did that to answer questions about his sexuality. That sets this lady off. And she gets so upset about it that she decides to break it off with Shannon or she fridges Shannon or whatever. And then Shannon doesn't deal well with that and becomes abusive, is what she is saying. There's just so much in there. Number one, that entire stunt that I believe was pulled purposefully by Shannon Sharpe. One of the cornier things that we've seen done that has gotten him sued twice because there's a woman that's suing him from that incident as well. Her name is Michelle. From suing him from that incident. And he's also being sued by a woman who was in a relationship with him. So that whole publicity stunt has gone as bad as a publicity stunt has gone that I've seen in my entire time of being connected to celebrity events.

[Rachel Lindsay]

And now this is a fruit from, I guess the poisonous tree as well.

[Van Lathan]

Right? That's what I'm saying. So I'm saying both of those things. It's that type of publicity stunts. Terrible. The way he responded to this is one of the worst responses I've ever seen in covering celebrity news. He did everything possible to actually paint a Picture of himself as the person that she indicated him to be in the lawsuit. He shamed her. Then he doxxed her. Then he came out and gave her onlyfans name. Then he did everything possible to paint himself in the light of controlling, domineering, like ogre.

[Rachel Lindsay]

I don't know how people don't see that. And then he compared himself. I'm Jay Z. I'm hot. Then he compared himself to Jay Z. He tried to use the same tactic that Jay Z used in regards to coming. Going after Tony Busby, where these situations are not the same at all. Jay Z didn't know the girl in this situation. You had a full. You had. This was going on for over a year, like at least two years. It sounds like that you were having this relationship, Text messages, videos, audio recordings, traveling with this person. And you're trying to deflect the attention off of you and put it on Tony Busby for a different case, which to me is very revealing. At the same time, you say, and like I saw somebody say something like this, and I have to agree, I'm paraphrasing here, but it bothers me when you get caught up in a situation as a public figure and then you try to make it a community cause this isn't about black men being attacked. I'm sorry, this is not how I see this. And people can come at me for that if they want to. This is Shannon Sharpe, as you said, not making correct decisions. I don't know. This is alleged. I don't know what's true and what's not true. But this is in a community calls where the black community needs to rally behind you because a black man is being attacked. I'm sorry, that's not what it is. And when he says Tony Busby, what he does is go after black men. He has diddy cases that are still relevant. The Jay Z one was not the Deshaun Watson case. Yes, he came after Deshawn. Those cases were settled.

[Van Lathan]

Settled, yeah.

[Rachel Lindsay]

It's not like Jay Z is the only one that has been thrown out, basically.

[Van Lathan]

But we don't know in the whole.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Grip that we know of the big ones. Yeah, because he's doing this of a public thing. And Jay Z's the only one that we know of that was thrown out because it basically ended up being a frivolous lawsuit. That is not the case with Deshawn. And if you look at Tony Busby's prominent cases, they deal with him representing Texas politicians, white men, they deal with oil spills, chemical releases, you want to battle Tony Busby? No, I'm not. I'm going against what Shannon Sharpe is trying to do because it's not rooted in anything factual. I'm sorry, it's not him. The black man community. Cause thing really bothers me.

[Van Lathan]

This is my deal. I get what you're saying. There is no possible way. The only part of this that actually makes sense is the Tony Busby part in terms of their response to me. Because if you. No, no, no. If you are going to respond to this and say anything, you have to bring up the fact that Tony Busby just got dinged. You have to bring that up. What I wouldn't have done was victim shame. What I wouldn't have done was doxed her. What I wouldn't have done is any of the things that make me look like the guy that's being portrayed in the lawsuit. However, if I am fighting this, I am definitely going to say the same lawyer that brought this case is the lawyer that Jay Z just proved brings frivolous cases of against powerful people.

[Rachel Lindsay]

That's not what he said though. I understand that, but I agree with you. I'm not saying I said if I was Jay Z, I'd be hot, that you gotta throw my name into it. My thing is that he said Tony Busby goes after prominent black men. That's not necessarily true.

[Van Lathan]

It's true from the perception of people that have been watching Tony Busby.

[Rachel Lindsay]

His name has only come up with DeShawn and Jay Z and. And Puff and Diddy. But as I just said, the DeShawn's cases were settled. They weren't thrown out. The other Diddy cases have not been thrown out. Just the Jay Z thing. So I don't like you saying using Tony Busby to say this is a vendetta against black men. No, you made some mistakes here, Shannon. I mean, look, you made some mistakes here.

[Van Lathan]

This is the thing with that. If it's put your biggest black baby batter in me in 2023, it's gotta be black baby batter in 2025. Right? It's like. What I don't like is guys who use black people's cultural pain as a fire extinguisher or a guy out of jail free card.

[Rachel Lindsay]

The community comes.

[Van Lathan]

I'm agreeing with you. And so, you know, I can't speak much to what Shannon's politics are or anything like that. I don't want to, but it seems as if in this situation, the best thing for them to do would have been to release a statement, a Statement that asserts his innocence, a statement that talks about the fact that there'll be more evidence forthcoming. They've known that this battle was coming for a long time, so should have been ready to say something whenever this was gonna come out. And handled it in a way that defended Shannon, but also maintained a certain integrity of who he is, which is my problem with this entire thing. I live in my imperfection. I want people to know it. We talk about that all the time, right? So I'm never gonna be the person that moves with a purity. I'm never gonna do that. Because I think that that's. You're just waiting to fall, right? You're just waiting to fall if that happens. But man, your excellence has got to match your action for sure. When you're. We care about being hot, being talked about, all of that stuff, it matters, right? We care about that being trending on social media, having moments, having people talk about you. But prestige has to matter. It has to matter who you are. And if you have the excellence that Shannon Sharpe has had over the course of his career with being an NFL hall of Famer, being a Super bowl champion, all of those things that separate you from the crowd, from the group and all of that stuff, and then you go on to pursue that in, in media, you go on to have this big career that's actually survived a couple of these things. At a certain point you have got to take yourself seriously. And I'm sorry, man, it is not serious at all for you to be in an exposed relationship with a 19 year old girl. It's just not, it's completely unserious. I, I'm not trying to judge the decorum or the conduct of people and police them in their bedrooms. And I'm not trying to come off like holy. Other than that, I'm not. But I'm saying, fuck, man, like shit like dog, like for real.

[Rachel Lindsay]

It's irresponsible. Like, if nothing else, it's irresponsible in the way he handled it.

[Van Lathan]

Let's say for a second that she was trying to run him up or she was trying to set him up from the beginning. Let's just say for a second that that's true. Think about what it means for a 56 year old grandfather to be taken to the cleaners and duped by a 19 year old girl.

[Rachel Lindsay]

He thought he was above it. He thought, I'll give her 10 million, she'll be fine. And she said, nah.

[Van Lathan]

But what does that tell you? Because the $10 million that she was offered is a win. That is a, like, 10 million is a win.

[Rachel Lindsay]

It depends.

[Van Lathan]

She doesn't want the 10 million, and she's going for 50.

[Rachel Lindsay]

I have to make space for that 50 that.

[Van Lathan]

I don't even know that Shannon Sharpe actually is sitting on 50 like that.

[Rachel Lindsay]

I have to. Well, he would pay her over time, but I have to make room for this. If I was assaulted, there's no dollar amount.

[Van Lathan]

That's the thing. So that. To me.

[Rachel Lindsay]

So an argument can be made both ways. It could have been planned, and it was like, nah, I know I can get more. Or this happened to me. And you don't get to just throw it away because I feel violated. I was assaulted. There is no dollar amount. You don't just get to throw money at me.

[Van Lathan]

Well, there is a dollar amount because she's asking for more money at me.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Well, I'm just saying. And part of that includes, you know, emotional distress and all of that, but you don't get to thr and throw money at me. And it sounds like she wanted people to know what happened to her in addition to getting the money.

[Van Lathan]

There's a reason why she wants this to be painful for him. And if she's actually asking for $50 million, I say that there was a dollar amount. I'm not necessarily sure she's suing for $50 million. Should I say, I'm not necessarily sure that he's gonna be able to produce that. And now she's actually hurt his earning potential because he's not gonna be able to go out and get this gigantic podcasting deal. But. But all of this tells me that there's a reason that she wants to inflict pain on him. And look, I had a conversation with my. And this is for everybody else that could find themselves in this situation. Once again, not judging. Not being the moral arbiter of things, none of that. I had a conversation with one of my uncles one time, right? And you know, this guy like to use crack. Use crack. We have a very open and honest conversation. And I said to him, I said, how. Why would anybody be on crack? Like, why would you use crack? Like, crack is proven to, like, fuck people's lives up and end them. Like, why would y' all use crack? Why is crack the drug? And you know what he said to me? He said, the question isn't why I use crack. The question is why y' all are still using it. He was like, for us, when crack came out, it was some new shit. It was the next drug. It was, oh, my God, we Was doing coke, we was doing pcp. We was doing whatever crack comes out. It's the new drug. It's cheap, it's whatever. We don't have no clue. He said, the question is not why we did it. The question is why y' all are still doing it. That's the question. And when you see situations like this, the question is, why is shit like this still happening? Is why are these chances still being taken? Is why is why. How could you find yourself in this situation?

[Rachel Lindsay]

I really think I explained it. If you've gotten away, because there is. He has been accused before, not exactly like this, but of being forced. Forcing himself on someone. He has been accused before. You got away with it, right? Nothing happened about it. Whether. I don't know if it settled. It went away. Whatever. Nothing happened with it. You lose your job at cbs, what happens next? You go on to be bigger and better. Thinking you are untouchable or invincible is a disease. And I really think that that is what is happening. When you see it keep happening again and again. They think that they're above it, that they are more valuable to somebody's team, to somebody's corporation, to somebody's. To somebody else's business, whatever it may be, to somebody, to people where they think it'll go, I'll survive it.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah. We don't know what happened here. These are allegations. But God damn it, if this is not a stupid fucking situation to be in, man, better Stupid fucking situation to be in. Like, we look once again, man, bad messenger. Everybody is imperfect, but I'm not talking about imperfect. I'm talking about fucking stupid. And odd. Odd. Look, I don't do. Look, you guys, I don't do the policing what people like. But, my nigga, you 54 years old. You 54 years. She's 19 years old. Like, even.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Like, remember how you were at 19?

[Van Lathan]

I'm just saying it's like. Even if it's like 23, 24, 25, I'm like, all right, you know, you on your Leonardo DiCaprio shit, but it is what it is.

[Rachel Lindsay]

56.

[Van Lathan]

Well, not when this would have happened.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Okay?

[Van Lathan]

So, like, they would have met in 23. She would have been 19 then.

[Rachel Lindsay]

The crazy thing is people kept telling him to stop. We gotta play the Katt Williams clip where Katt was like, kat, Monique, he said, you can be this on one day and in two weekends, they will take you down. And literally, that is what is happening.

[Van Lathan]

Okay? Last thing I'll say is there's a possibility that you. He's Been talking about it. He said just last week he said that don't stop them young ones from opening up. I saw that he said that to Funny Marco. There's a possibility that you like him that young because.

[Rachel Lindsay]

There'S a control thing. Yeah, it's like what Trick Daddy said.

[Van Lathan]

The women, it's different. 35 under 35 is different than 19.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Okay, but he said he wanted the 20 something year olds. He did say under 35, but he wanted the 20 something year olds because basically the older women, they know too much.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, I just.

[Rachel Lindsay]

There's obviously a level of control and manipulation when you want somebody that much.

[Van Lathan]

Younger than you, man, your actions have to match your excellence, man. We could say I've, you know, talked about Jay Z on here and how I felt about the Colin Kaepernick. But I will say this about Jay Z, you know, if me and Jay Z don't. Me and Jay Z, I don't know fucking Jay Z. But if I have disagreed with certain things that I've done that he's done or whatever, I will say this. He maintains his prestige for sure. He maintains his prestige. He didn't always. Right. He had a situation where it was him versus his sister in law in an elevator that looked really bad. You know what I mean? Hasn't always. Hasn't always. But the lessons that have been learned. He maintains his prestige for sure. When people talk about the fact that like Jay Z isn't the hot rapper, Nas isn't the hot rapper, but they're still relevant in terms of their place in hip hop. Cause there's respect, there's prestige there. There's an understanding of excellence and prestige. And they carry themselves like the cultural dignitaries that they are. Doesn't mean we agree with everything that they do. But there's prestige there. There's a thing there. And you have to care about that. You have got to care about that. And this is a lesson for like all of us. You have to care about that. This episode is brought to you by Hyundai, who says you can't be the topic of conversation for all the right reasons. The Hyundai Tucson hybrid pairs bold presence with advanced technology and sleek style. It's everything you didn't know you needed in an SUV and then some. Okay, Hyundai. Visit HyundaiUSA.com to learn more.

[Rachel Lindsay]

This episode is brought to you by ebay. We all have that piece, the one that's so you. You've basically become known for it. And if you don't yet, fashionistas, you'll find it on ebay. That Miu Miu red leather bomber, the Cousteau Barcelona cowboy top? Or that Patagonia fleece in the 2017 colorway. All these finds are all on ebay, along with millions of more main character pieces backed by authenticity guaranteed. Ebay is the place for pre loved and vintage fashion. EBay, things people love.

[Donnie]

Let's go to Doge. Elon Musk announced that he's going to be focusing more on Tesla and less on politics after he told investors in an earnings call that Tesla's profits had dropped 71% from this time last year. Quote, starting probably in the next month, May, my time allocation to Doge will drop significantly. So I think I'll continue to spend a day or two per week on government matters for as long as the President would like me to do so. Tesla CFO said the negative impact on.

[Van Lathan]

Hell, nah. What's the name?

[Donnie]

Vive Taneha by Bob Taneya.

[Van Lathan]

Donnie said be culturally Donnie. You have to be culturally respectful to these names, okay? So don't just skip the name because it's a tough pronunciation.

[Donnie]

You're right.

[Van Lathan]

I respect you.

[Donnie]

The negative impact, Taneya said of vandalism and unwarranted hostility towards our brand and our people had an impact in certain markets.

[Van Lathan]

Tears. You got any tears for Elon?

[Rachel Lindsay]

No. I think Elon came to do what he came to do, and I think he is bored, maybe a little embarrassed. And now. I mean, money is always the motivating factor for him, and his decisions and his recklessness have caused him to. Something he built to plummet drastically. And I think he wants to get back to building that. I really. I mean, like, this was his playground. I think he had a goal in mind. He got a position. He's been able to infiltrate the administration. He's been able to have access to the White House and to, you know, private documents and be a part of meetings in ways that no businessman ever has. I think he came, he saw, he's bored.

[Van Lathan]

Oh, I don't think that's what's happening.

[Rachel Lindsay]

I think that's a part of it. I'm not saying that that's everything, but I absolutely think he's like, all right, now. What?

[Van Lathan]

No, no, no, no, no.

[Rachel Lindsay]

I think he's a big kid.

[Van Lathan]

I think he's. I mean, I'm not saying that that's not true. I think he's facing a lot of pushback from shareholders here.

[Rachel Lindsay]

No, no. For sure.

[Van Lathan]

Right? 71% is ridiculous in terms of the losses that Tesla's posting right now. Also, I Think something else as well. Elon Musk hasn't found community. He hasn't found community. He is. God bless you.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Thank you.

[Van Lathan]

He's one of the neediest luminaries, titans of industry, captains of industry that I've ever seen. He desperately, desperately, desperately. Oh, here we go again. Go for it. God bless you. He desperately, desperately, desperately wants to be loved and liked. And he thought that he was going to find that community on the right. And it hasn't happened. The decision to take up with these people. Right. The decision to be one of Trump's acolytes was. Oh, was supposed to buy him the same loyalty that it's bought every other person that Trump loves, that it buys Pete Hexseth, that it bought Candace Owens for a long time. Dan Boy Gingo, who, however you say, his name, whatever. I'm talking about names. Whoever these people are, they are untouchable. On the right. Right. Candace is actually kind of broke with the Trump administration over.

[Rachel Lindsay]

They broke with her.

[Van Lathan]

The Israel stuff. Yeah. But for a long time, all of these different people, Teflon. On the right, you have a home, and let's be honest, that same home doesn't exist on the left. On the left, you have a vast coalition of people that have different needs and different wants. So you are constantly litigating your place there, which is good to me, because that, to me means that you don't get the opportunity to just rest on your laurels and just be a part of. Of a group or a cult that legitimately, you are pretty much criticized day to day based upon what it is that you're doing. Now, some people don't get that there's a Blue Maga cult as well. But if you. Doesn't matter how much you've done for electric vehicles in the environment, if you fuck up and let racist on Twitter, you're out of the club. Right. The club on the right seemed a little bit more durable for him. He wanted to buy his way into that. He wanted to be, and he did, and they still kicked him out. There are reports that he is arguing with the Treasury Secretary, that people don't like Elon around, that Elon is annoying them, that Elon is wearing out his welcome now as an advisor to the president, a government advisor to the president. I think he had like 100 days that he could work or 120 days that he could work. Anyway, so he was gonna be.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Yeah. This summer it was supposed to end.

[Van Lathan]

Right. However. But there were other ways that he could have stayed around if he hadn't worn his welcome out. And that plus the fact that he is seeing a direct financial impact from doing this, that he has now become an annoyance to one group of people. He went down to Wisconsin. They got their asses kicked there in the special election. So he wasn't able to buy that election. The entire thing. He wasn't. His warrant is welcome out there magnificently fast. Way faster than any wars. Welcome out on the left. Cause it took years. It took an actual change from him in terms of his politics and his awkwardness that he probably is like, let me crawl back into whatever hole that I was in before as an anonymous, not an anonymous, but a lower key, rabble rousing billionaire person and let me rebuild confidence in Tesla. Tesla's done. It's over. It's over. Tesla. Now the Tesla sign has become an insignia that is representative of something that is dangerous to a lot of people. Like I drive a Tesla. I've had a Tesla for a while, right. The car's gone. The car is going to be gone.

[Rachel Lindsay]

I was like, y' all got rid of the car.

[Van Lathan]

We're about to like the car is going to be gone because of this. Yeah. Could never see like now it's like. It's not a cool thing to be in the Tesla anymore. It's not cool thing to be in the car. It doesn't mean what it meant before.

[Rachel Lindsay]

It doesn't mean it represents so much more.

[Van Lathan]

Yes, it represented a future with clean energy and all of that stuff, at least cosmetically. I'm not sure what the environmental impact and all of that stuff was, you know, the batteries and all of that stuff. But it doesn't represent that anymore. It represents a guy who gave a Nazi salute. It represents a guy who. It represents oligarchy now.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Yeah, yeah.

[Van Lathan]

You know, it represents like a lot of things that are discussing in grotesque. That's not gonna change.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Right, right.

[Van Lathan]

But that's not going to change. That's what happens. The people's response to Tesla is America in action. That they're saying, hey, we don't like this. And another thing about that, what a dumb, stupid miscalculation. You sold these expensive ass electric cars to liberal coastal elites. They don't even have fucking chargers for the Tesla like in Baton Rouge and stuff like that. There's some. But you can't even. This is a Miami, Louisiana, maybe Atlanta, New York, Mobile, San Francisco.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Mobile.

[Van Lathan]

Right. That's what it is. And then you turned around and kicked those people in the nuts.

[Rachel Lindsay]

You know why? It's kind of Similar what I said with Shannon Sharpe. The stock in Tesla while he was promoting Trump went up because I had it. It went through the roof.

[Van Lathan]

Tesla stock been going down for years.

[Rachel Lindsay]

No, last summer it was up. I'm telling you, it was up.

[Van Lathan]

Huh.

[Rachel Lindsay]

And after the election is when things started to go down.

[Van Lathan]

I'm not sure about that. Rach.

[Rachel Lindsay]

I had it.

[Van Lathan]

I know, but what I'm telling you.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Is, I mean, I don't have it anymore.

[Van Lathan]

Tesla stock has been suffering now for a couple. Maybe I'm wrong about this. Donnie, let's do a who's right. All right, when.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Unless I'm mixing up 2023 and 2024.

[Van Lathan]

When did Tesla stocks start to go down? Looking it up right now.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Tesla stocks, it saw a massive rally in the fourth quarter. It fell in the first few months in 2024, and then it dropped after the election. It went from 182 in May to 409 in November of 2024.

[Van Lathan]

So there was a. The stock had started to fall, there was a rally, and then it fell again.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

So I guess we're kind of both right.

[Rachel Lindsay]

So I guess, I guess my point is, I think he thought because there started to be an uptick, that maybe he was good, he was safe and I mean, he was drinking his own Kool Aid. He really thought. And I mean, I would talk to people, there are people who were maybe conservative moderates who were excited about what the possibility of what Doge could be, of what Doge could do. And then to your. In what you were talking about with immigration, the rhetoric did not match the practice of it. And that's what Elon Musk underestimated. Also, you talk about him wanting community. He's just not like a likable. He's not like a likable guy. Like he's socially awkward. So it makes sense that he also underestimated the community that he would or wouldn't gain. Cuz he just doesn't have like that's just not that person.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, there's an incident where he walked out on stage with Dave Chappelle. The people booed him.

[Rachel Lindsay]

I forgot about that.

[Van Lathan]

Reportedly he was destroyed by that. And you know, he also had an issue where one of his children became trans and so. Or came out as trans when he became trans or born trans, but came out as trans. And that bothered him to a point to where it just destroyed him. He cried and all that dumbass shit is what you. So it seems as if that he hasn't found his tribe. He's trying to create his tribe by impregnating every single woman that will allow herself to be impregnated by him. And now he wants to step back into the shadows a little bit as he's also seen his finances take a hit. But I mean, look, they were never going to fully accept Elon Musk. It wasn't. And by the way, it's interesting. Trump tried to get them. Trump tried to get them to buy Teslas. He tried to get them to do it. Like the group of people who are going to buy Teslas and be loyal to the Tesla brand. That group is incongruent with the Trump supporter. Yeah, it's an electric car. It's not a Ford F150, all right? It's not even the same group of people. It was a really, really interesting cultural miscalculation by Elon Musk.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Tesla stock rose to 488 in December of 2024. Now it's at 239. That was at the beginning of April, right?

[Unknown Announcer]

This message is a paid partnership with Apple Card there's one thing I'm going to make sure I pack for my summer vacation. It's my Apple Card. I can earn up to 3% daily cash back on every purchase, including fuel for my car and booking places to stay. Plus, I don't have to worry about fees, including foreign transaction fees, which is perfect when I'm planning to travel abroad. To get an Apple Card for your summer travels, apply in the Wallet app on your iPhone today. Subject to credit approval. Apple Card issued by Goldman Sachs Bank USA Salt Lake City Branch. Variable APRs for Apple Card range from 18.24% to 28.49% based on creditworthiness rates as of July 1, 2025. Terms and [e-mail] this message is a paid partnership with Apple Card. If there's one thing I'm going to make sure I pack for my summer vacation, it's my Apple Card. I can earn up to 3% daily cash back on every purchase, including fuel for my car and booking places to stay. Plus, I don't have to worry about fees, including foreign transaction fees, which is perfect when I'm planning to travel abroad. To get an Apple card. For your summer travels, apply in the Wallet app on your iPhone today. Subject to credit approval. Apple Card issued by Goldman Sachs Bank USA Salt Lake City Branch. Variable APRs for Apple Card range from 18.24% to 28.49% based on credit worthiness rates as of July 1, 2025 Terms and more at applecard.com Bring in Dakota Tyler right now.

[Van Lathan]

A live. Bring in Dakota Tyler. Is a PhD candidate over there or a master's candidate. We'll get him to tell what kind of candidate he is. Is a candidate of some sort at ucla. Used to play football. Astrophysics at ucla. And we need to know whether or not the Earth is flat. I don't know. I'm not sure anymore.

[Rachel Lindsay]

You're not sure?

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, I don't know.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Are you starting to question?

[Van Lathan]

Dakota researches exoplanets and the evolutionary and the evolution of planetary systems. Before ucla, he did research at the Harvard Smithsonian center for Astrophysics and the NASA Goddard Space Flight Center. He played football at the University of Kentucky.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Nice.

[Van Lathan]

From 2010 to 2013.

[Rachel Lindsay]

What the hell is going on?

[Van Lathan]

Dakota, are you there?

[Dakota Tyler]

What's up? Nice to be here. Thanks for having me.

[Van Lathan]

So you played safety at Kentucky from 2010 to 2013?

[Dakota Tyler]

Absolutely, absolutely. Yep. I was, you know, a little hard hitting safety action.

[Van Lathan]

You see that?

[Dakota Tyler]

Who is that? I can't see.

[Van Lathan]

You see that right there? It's lsu, baby.

[Dakota Tyler]

I can't see it.

[Rachel Lindsay]

It's lsu.

[Van Lathan]

Lsu.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Don't worry about it.

[Dakota Tyler]

Let me. Yeah, let me tell you something. We took some hefty losses in LSU when I was there, but we had some. We got some wins, too. We got some wins, too.

[Van Lathan]

So look, Wiz Khalifa, who we love as a rapper, I love Cushion Orange Juice, okay. You know, he has a song called Never Been, which has a Nintendo sample on it. And we can't get the original Cushion Orange Juice version, but of that record because of the Nintendo. Nintendo won't clear the sample. It's crazy. Like, the game won't clear the sample. So I love Wiz Khalifa, but Dakota, PhD candidate, astrophysics at UCLA, former safety. When are you going to get your PhD? When is that happening?

[Dakota Tyler]

Two weeks from today.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Wow. Oh, congratulations.

[Van Lathan]

That's what I'm talking about. Thank you, Dakota.

[Dakota Tyler]

Yeah, I defend in two weeks. Very excited about that. I will be going by Dr. Dakota Tyler.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Dr. Can we start it now?

[Van Lathan]

I would just call you Dr. Dakota.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Yeah, do it now.

[Van Lathan]

Just do it now.

[Dakota Tyler]

Let's do it.

[Van Lathan]

Get a little. Yeah.

[Dakota Tyler]

Practice.

[Van Lathan]

But Wiz Khalifa was on the Joe Button podcast and he was talking about flat earth theory, and he gave his reasons as to why he thinks the earth is flat. We want you to hear these. Play it for him, Donnie.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Is the earth round?

[Van Lathan]

I would say no.

[Rachel Lindsay]

What shape is it?

[Van Lathan]

I just believe that we live on a flat. Flat plane. Yeah, like a huge flat plane. Yeah. It's only because I've traveled so much and I see, like. Did you ever get to the edge of the Earth? No. Okay. It's not that there's more. I think that there's more masses than just what we see. Just the Earth, because we lived. It was one thing before. And it's, like, spread out, so it's.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Layered like a pastry.

[Van Lathan]

I wouldn't say layered like a pastry. I would just say, like, if this rug was the world, we would probably be, like, over there somewhere. And then there's just way more shit that we haven't discovered.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Got it?

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Okay.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, that's what I think. Yeah, you take that, Doc. Okay. Okay. Okay. So, Dakota, I'm gonna ask you, all right? And let's do this. For the sake of this argument. Let's treat for flat Earth theory like it's actually a thing. Dakota, why is the Earth not flat?

[Dakota Tyler]

Why is it not flat?

[Rachel Lindsay]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

I'm assuming you think flat Earthers are wrong. Why are they wrong?

[Dakota Tyler]

So the reason it's pretty straightforward. And it's just that none of our observations are consistent with that. You would expect, if something was true, that when you looked out and observed the universe. When I pull out a telescope and look at another planet, we should find every single piece of evidence in alignment with some Earth that's flat in a plane that could be described within the universe, and it just isn't true. No observations that we make are consistent with that. It doesn't make sense. Even observations that you can make for yourself won't be consistent with what you would expect. But I like that starting point. Assuming that it's true.

[Van Lathan]

Right.

[Dakota Tyler]

That's what we do as scientists. I have a theory. I assume I'm right. I try to find observations that match that, and then, more importantly, I try to poke holes in my theory and my observations to prove to the community that I'm actually showing something that's real and not relying on belief. He did use the word belief. He believes that it's a flat plane, but he doesn't really have a lot of evidence that it's a flat plane.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Like, why does this keep happening? I mean, I'm sure there are other scientific theories that people, you know, have conspiracy theories about, but this is a theory that seems to be very popular with prominent figures. He's not the first we've heard say this. Why do people consistently want to believe that the Earth is flat? And is there any benefit in believing that the Earth is flat?

[Dakota Tyler]

I think that that's a really Good question. And this really gets at the heart of a lot of conspiracy theories. People that pay attention to history, society, politics do not have a high amount of trust just blindly for the government. And that makes sense. I mean, as a black man in this country, I 100% understand why you wouldn't just blindly trust authority. And what that rolls into, if you don't have. If you're not studying astronomy, if you're not studying any one of the fields where these conspiracies pop up, is that you just start to believe that they're lying to us about something, because they've lied to us about a lot of things. And you get very, very vague. It's that they're lying to us, and you start to lose sight of reality. But as somebody who studies these things every day, it's not a matter of me believing what the government says, right? It's not like NASA is in my ear feeding me lines. I'm using a telescope in making these observations. And I think that there is a. It's an important conversation. It's a nuanced conversation, because people that don't trust the government and authority for very good reason will now misapply that mistrust in areas where they may not have expertise, where they don't know all of the facts. But I think it comes from something that we all have, which is that you're not just going to lie to me about everything, and I'm just going to believe it without thinking about it for myself. So, you know, I understand that.

[Van Lathan]

Interesting. Dakota, they got me wondering who you're working for, who you. Who you're working on behalf of. You said before that there are observable things about our environment or in our environment that can lead a person to see that the Earth is not flat. What are those things? What would those things be?

[Dakota Tyler]

One of the most straightforward ones. I'm here in la, so I go to the beach from time to time. And you can grab your cell phone, you could grab a little cheap pair of binoculars and watch a boat literally sail off into the horizon. And when you zoom in, you'll notice that the bottom of the boat disappears before the top. It doesn't all disappear at the same time. And the way that you explain that, you know, imagine that you're looking at this curved surface as a boat is sailing away from you. What you would expect as it traverse that curve is that the bottom would disappear before the top. That's a simple observation that anybody could make. You don't have to travel. You don't have to go anywhere. You just go to a beach.

[Van Lathan]

Aha. And let me tell you why I'm saying this. I watched a flat Earther be interviewed for this conversation with you. I'm on you guys. You guys are trying to trick us. Dakota, he said that the reason why that happens that way is because you can only see so far, and you. It's actually the fact that you can't see that far that makes it disappear. But if you put a telephoto lens on it and you looked at it, you would just keep seeing the boat and keep seeing the boat and keep seeing the boat and keep seeing the boat for as long as the lens would then observe the vote.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Ha.

[Van Lathan]

Dakota, what do you say to that?

[Dakota Tyler]

Yeah, that's what that person said, but that isn't true. You can do this test for yourself. You can do this for yourself, and you'll see that no matter how far you zoom in, it's not going to shrink. You know, it's going. The bottom will literally vanish before the top. You can do a test that anybody can do for themselves.

[Rachel Lindsay]

I've never heard of that. That's so interesting. What do you think Whiz meant when he said, I've traveled a lot? And what, like, what.

[Van Lathan]

What.

[Rachel Lindsay]

What does he say?

[Dakota Tyler]

This makes sense. You know, we all. We all have experiences, and people cannot tell us that our experiences didn't happen to us. If he's getting on planes and he's flying places, he's not getting the feeling perhaps, you know, I'm putting words into his mouth a little bit, but he's not getting the feeling that he's flying around a globe. And, I mean, you don't get that feeling when you walk to your car that you're walking along a curved surface either. And I really think that that's pretty much it. It just doesn't seem like you're flying around a globe because it's so large that it seems flat. I mean, here's another test you can do. You get a basketball, some sort of ball, and take a picture with your iPhone and zoom all the way in as many times as you can till you can't anymore. Screenshot that. Zoom in some more. Eventually, you will get to a point where that ball zoomed in enough. Looks like a flat plane. And if you imagine that you were a little. A little pixel on there and you were flying in a plane, it would seem like you were flying in a flat plane. But that's just because the Earth is so large that the tiny part that we walk on doesn't seem to have curvature. But once you step back and you see a picture of Earth from space, for example, you're like, oh, okay, you know, this is a round sphere.

[Van Lathan]

Why do planets and celestial bodies, like, you know, other types of moons and things like that? Why are they spheres or circles or whatever? Why aren't they squares or stars or whatever?

[Dakota Tyler]

Yeah, that. That is. This is a really interesting question. It basically comes down to energy not being wasted in. In the universe. So you imagine some big, huge mass exists and it sort of pulls on itself. We call it gravity. You could think about gravity in a couple different ways, but one easy way is that the center of that mass is pulling equally in all directions. And what happens to something that you pull equally in every direction? It doesn't end up as a triangle or a square because. Right. That would mean that you were pulling harder at the top than you were at the corner. But if you pull equally everywhere, then you end up with a sphere. This is why we see spheres in space so much.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Interesting. Is it bad that I don't care if the Earth is flat or round?

[Dakota Tyler]

No, I don't. I really don't.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Does it match that?

[Dakota Tyler]

It's not.

[Rachel Lindsay]

I mean, I believe it's round, but I'm just saying it's bad. I don't really know. Like, I don't really. When people talk about it, I'm like, does it. Does it make a difference in your life?

[Dakota Tyler]

It probably doesn't make a difference in your life, but there's nuance there as well. Because if the reason that you are ambiguous about it or like the reason why you don't really know which way to go is because you are like misunderstanding and mistrusting science or evidence, then I think that that could show up in other areas of your life.

[Van Lathan]

Right.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Yeah.

[Dakota Tyler]

When you see.

[Van Lathan]

Right. Because.

[Dakota Tyler]

Because that's. I mean, how do you know to believe anything?

[Rachel Lindsay]

Sure.

[Dakota Tyler]

To believe doctors about this. How do you know? And so you've got to. I do think that it's important to have a baseline understanding of why we trust the scientific method or even just scientific principles that you can apply towards finding truth for yourself in some other area. But yeah, like big picture, you go through your whole life not know whether the Earth is round or flat is probably not going to make a difference in your life materially.

[Van Lathan]

But it's a rejection of science that's alarming. And it's been given a lot of fuel and fire. We had fucking figured this out. I never heard. I'm sure there's always been a flat Earth society and all of that stuff, but it was a fringe kook situation that existed before then, before now, and now it's on fire again because of the motherfucking Internet. Now let's move on. When in history, because we observed the Earth as a sphere long before we could get up in a spacecraft and go see the Earth from space. When did we first come upon the realization that the Earth was in fact round? Is this like Copernicus or something like this? Like, when was this?

[Dakota Tyler]

Oh, way, way before that. Way before Copernicus. It was in ancient Greece. Don't remember the exact time, but people were thinking about this. They were thinking about, how could you. How could you do a test to see what the shape of the Earth was? And one way that they came up with is. And this kind of. It makes sense if you think about it. If the Earth is a sphere and the sun is like, out at some distance, you could measure the shadows of objects that are the exact same height at the exact same time. And if they're in different locations because the sunlight is coming in from a different angle.

[Van Lathan]

Right.

[Dakota Tyler]

The sun kind of moves across the sky as the Earth spins, then you would measure different heights of shadows. And you can do some trigonometry, a little geometry, and then you could figure out how much curvature there was between those two places. So this was a test that was done in ancient Greece. This was done a very long time ago.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Wow. Half that went over my head. I'm curious as to what else. You said you go to the beach and you take your telescope out there. What else do you see? What do you see?

[Dakota Tyler]

What do I see when I take my telescope?

[Rachel Lindsay]

I'm just. Now. Now I'm going to take a huge jump.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Rachel Lindsay]

I'm just now coming to accept that we are not alone.

[Van Lathan]

Alien.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Yes.

[Van Lathan]

Okay.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Do you believe that?

[Dakota Tyler]

Yes. But the caveat being that I don't think that they're here. I do think that they're out there, but I don't think that they're here because the distances are insane. Like, you wouldn't believe how far the closest star is to us. It's hundreds of trillions of miles, and that's the closest star. So it's like, how do you. How would they get from there to here?

[Rachel Lindsay]

Do you believe that? But do you believe that? Sorry, do you believe that because of. Some of it's based in science or just because, you know, some people are like, it's impossible to think that we're the only people here.

[Dakota Tyler]

No, you can make a really good statistical argument for that. Like, we don't know how common life is. That's true. We don't really know. Let's say that it's one in a trillion. Let's just say that that's. Out of a trillion planets. One of them has life. Well, we think that there are trillions of planets just in our galaxy. So if you just go off of that very conservative estimate, then you would say that there's probably a couple other planets with life statistically just in our galaxy. And, you know, there are other galaxies. So I do think that you can. You can make that statistical argument. You couldn't say it's impossible, though, right? Like, we don't have the data to. To. To back up saying that it's impossible. But that's what I think as well. I think that there's probably no way that we're the only life. Nothing comes in ones that I'm aware of. There's not one planet, there's not one star. There's not one galaxy. There's not one human. There's not one society. I don't know anything that comes in ones. So I wouldn't guess that life was just us.

[Van Lathan]

Is it possible that they learned how to fold space? Is it possible that they learned how to, like. Is it possible that they learned how. Miguel Alcubera says that a warp drive is possible. He says the math checks out. We don't have the engineering. Is it possible that they have the engineering that can do that? Is it possible that they've learned any of these things? Dakota, that's.

[Dakota Tyler]

You know, this is where, as a scientist, all I can say is we don't know how to do it. That doesn't mean that it's. That it's not possible. And we're not that advanced. You know, 300 years ago, we didn't have electricity.

[Van Lathan]

So, you know, crazy like that, it's insane.

[Dakota Tyler]

It's insane. We would, like. We live in this. In this time that no other human beings have ever. I think about that a lot, actually. You know, when we're. When I'm having a bad day or I'm struggling, or I feel like I'm, you know, down on my luck, whatever. If you just think the kings and queens thousands of years ago didn't have ac, they didn't have heat refrigerators, they didn't have heating, they didn't have, like, running hot water.

[Van Lathan]

We're.

[Dakota Tyler]

We're really living better than almost any humans ever have. And So I can only imagine in 5,000 years, what. What are humans going to be doing?

[Van Lathan]

Maybe.

[Dakota Tyler]

Maybe they'll be folding space for fun. That may be like a kid's app, right? And you know, just to. Just to waste the time, who knows?

[Van Lathan]

All right, but before we let you go, got Black Space Week is coming up is what I've heard. Do you know anything about this? Yeah, yeah.

[Dakota Tyler]

This is a event put on by Black and Astro organization that I'm in. It's like a grassroots movement to connect black voices in space and the broader community because there's not a lot of black people in space, as you might guess. And it's really important to build that community and have conversations like this because there is a lot of black people that are interested in space. So there's a little bit of a disconnect there.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Interesting. Did Blue Origin happen?

[Dakota Tyler]

Yeah, I mean, I think it happened. Here's the thing. I don't think it's impressive as you think that it might be, which may cause you to be like, if I was going to fake something, you know, as a person with slightly above average intelligence, I would have faked something way more impressive. It wasn't impressive enough to fake.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Okay.

[Dakota Tyler]

I think they. They fumbled the. The PR on that, in my opinion.

[Van Lathan]

Before we let you go, Dakota Tyler. Dr. Dakota Tyler. Dr. Astrophysicists, US UCLA almost fucked up the school. Kentucky safety. The coach was.

[Dakota Tyler]

I was there for Brooks.

[Van Lathan]

Brooks.

[Dakota Tyler]

Joker Phillips.

[Van Lathan]

Joker Phillips.

[Rachel Lindsay]

I thought it was Stoopzz, brother. You were there for Stoops?

[Dakota Tyler]

He's there now. Yeah, I was my last year. Stoops was there.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah. So I was trying to figure out the coach before Supes. Um, you're sure that the Earth isn't flat?

[Dakota Tyler]

Ah, yeah. It's like as sure as you are that you need to breathe right after this breath to keep living.

[Van Lathan]

Wow. Wow. Okay. Wiz, Lord Jamar, all of you brothers out there, man, we get it, but the earth isn't flat. It's not flat, guys, okay? It's like, you know, we talk. I don't get as offended as a lot of people do with the earth is flat thing. But we just. Dakota's here. He's black. He doesn't work for the CIA. The earth isn't flat. He's astrophysicist. The earth isn't flat, okay? It's just not flat, and that's okay. The earth isn't flat, and that's okay. Dakota, thank you for joining us today on Higher Learning. Man. We're going to reach back out and talk to you guys when Black Space Week is coming up.

[Dakota Tyler]

For sure. Yeah, thanks for having me. By the way, you can follow me on all socials t Starkid. And I do talks to students, I do keynotes. You can check out my website, www.dakotyler.com and get in contact with me. Thanks again for having me.

[Rachel Lindsay]

No problem. Thank you for being here.

[Van Lathan]

Appreciate you for being here, man. Thank you. T Council Alpa. Do not stop learning. I'm Van Language.

[Rachel Lindsay]

I'm Rachel and Lindsay. Bye, guys.