Higher Learning with Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay

Episode: Sifting Through Emmanuel Acho’s Perspective. Plus, Logan Explains the NBA Gambling Scandal!
Date: October 24, 2025
Podcast Host: The Ringer

Overview

In this culture-heavy episode, Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay drill into several core conversations rocking Black culture, media, and sports:

• The validity and impact of Stephen A. Smith's apology to Rep. Jasmine Crockett
• The larger issues with community, accountability, and representation among influential Black figures
• A response to Emmanuel Acho’s recent comments about his contentious interview with Van
• The NBA’s burgeoning gambling scandal, with guest Logan Murdock breaking down the implications
• A spirited discussion on masculinity, cultural authenticity, and generational shifts
• Keke Palmer’s new HBCU-centered series and the social media blowback it sparked

The episode mixes insightful debate, hilarious asides, and honest vulnerability, maintaining their signature mix of bluntness and empathy throughout.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. AI, the Economy, and Overinvestment

[01:09–04:55]

• Van voices skepticism about the robustness of the American economy, zeroing in on the AI “bubble” led by a handful of tech behemoths.
• He draws parallels between AI’s unprofitable, high-energy-consuming growth and historic bubbles.
• AI data centers, noise, and resource use are discussed—especially regarding cultural frivolities enabled by AI.

"We're in an AI bubble... There are six different companies funding this, making artificial revenue that is then leading to more investment. And when this bubble bursts, we're going to experience pain." — Van [01:28]

2. Stephen A. Smith’s Apology to Jasmine Crockett

[08:29–29:55]

Recap and Reactions

• Rachel is deeply unimpressed with Stephen A. Smith’s delayed apology, rating it a “zero.” She feels the apology came only after social media backlash, not genuine remorse.
• Van explores the broader issue: does Stephen A. continuously fail “the test of community” when it comes to supporting Black women and larger Black interests?
• The pair debate whether Stephen A.’s political commentary is self-serving or reflective of deeper conservative leanings.

Key Quotes

"My frustration...is because this is not the first time that Donald Trump has attacked Jasmine Crockett or another Democrat of color. It's not the first time... So for Stephen A. Smith to play ignorant and act like he wasn't aware, I just can't let that go." — Rachel [11:17]

"Over and over again, they're reminded that there's something other than being in community with us that Stephen A. Smith is interested in." — Van [18:26]

• Van notes some, like D.L. Hughley, choose to extend Stephen A. grace, while he himself questions if the sports commentator’s actions show a desire to be accepted as a “cultural critic” rather than a true community advocate.

Theme: Community and Accountability

• They stress that when you have a platform, you’re responsible for both accuracy and being in active community with those you speak about.

3. Responding to Emmanuel Acho's Perspective

[31:04–54:55]

Background

• Emmanuel Acho, on another podcast, described his interview with Van (from January 2023) as a “hit job” and expressed hurt, perceiving public attack from another Black man.

Rachel and Van’s Reflection

• Rachel discloses she’d historically given Acho a heads-up when discussing him negatively on-air but didn’t before the infamous interview.
• Van is candid: his frustration stemmed from consuming Acho's “Uncomfortable Conversations with a Black Man,” which he found strategically harmful in addressing white supremacy.
• Both reflect that the disconnect came from differing expectations about the nature and tone of the discussion.

Soundbites

"If you are going to take on the burden of having these conversations, do it with the understanding that there are lives on the line and any weakness will be digested and shitted back on Black people by white supremacy. That I do not back away from." — Van [43:33]

"You have positioned yourself to be a representative of a Black man. You have othered yourself from the American Black experience... Why on earth would Black people not get the opportunity to question you about that?" — Rachel [49:09]

Takeaways

• Van accepts he could have handled things with more nuance but underscores that tough, public, intra-community dialogue is sometimes necessary.
• Rachel points out the contradiction in Acho’s stance: he publicly critiques, but resents public critique himself.

4. The NBA Gambling Scandal & the Culture of Sports Betting

[56:07–77:19] – Guest: Logan Murdock

Context

• Major gambling-related FBI arrests in the NBA: Chauncey Billups (illegal poker, mafia connections) and Terry Rozier (game manipulation via prop bets).
• Logan Murdoch joins to explain the growing pervasiveness of gambling culture and its risk to NBA integrity.
• The pod expands into a critique of late-stage capitalism and how sports fandom itself has shifted.

Key Quotes

"Sports gambling has ballooned... What does that bring? A lot more scrutiny to refereeing, player performance, and also player safety." — Logan [58:25]

"I don't think people care as much about the integrity of these sports as they used to... People are as much fans of the drama as they are the outcome." — Van [62:22]

Discussion Points

• The league is in a bind: gambling is a core, legal revenue driver but threatens game credibility.
• The sports news cycle and fan expectations have shifted toward perpetual drama, not just wins and losses.
• The conversation moves into how the 24-hour social-media news cycle (post-9/11, the rise of ESPN and TMZ) has turned everything, including athlete conduct and league scandals, into content.

Memorable Moment

"If we found out right now that the first five games were fake and the NBA had put the fix in, people would not stop watching the NBA. They would be more invested." — Van [90:41]

5. Sports, Celebrity Narratives & Changing Masculinity

[93:12–101:38]

Logan on Painted Nails and Generational Masculinity

• Logan schools older generations on their selective outrage toward young athletes expressing themselves (e.g., wearing painted nails), linking it back to Prince, 1980s Black stars, and the old-school "exceptions" to gender conventions.
• Van, Rachel, and Logan agree: true masculinity is being “your own motherfucker,” unconcerned with public perception.

Quotes

"They wore tight ass leather in August and then talk about me and my fly ass nails?" — Logan [94:43]

"I wax my balls... I'm thick, and when my thighs is thick and they feel better, I'm a thick nigga, ok? And I feel better when my balls is waxed." — Van [101:40]

• The humorous, honest talk frames the conversation as an evolution, acknowledging the hypocrisy (and sometimes progressiveness) of Black male expression across generations.

6. Keke Palmer’s Key TV, Southern Fried Rice, and Authentic Black Representation

[103:50–117:47]

The Issue

• Keke Palmer promotes her new series "Southern Fried Rice," centered on an Asian woman’s experience at an HBCU (Historically Black College or University), which sparks online criticism.
• Critics question why a celebrated Black platform is launching with a non-Black lead.

Rachel and Van’s Analysis

• Rachel urges people to do their research—highlighting that a Black creator wrote the series, and Key TV is still primarily staffed and led by Black creatives.
• Van sees the uproar as part of a longstanding cultural self-check within Black communities regarding how their stories are told and who is centered.

Key Quotes

"What if we've just fucking had enough of that [fish-out-of-water non-Black leads]? What if what we want now, as Black people, is being centered in Black places, telling our Black-ass stories?" — Van [116:21]

"If this isn't the type of content you want to see, totally fair. But don't attack someone who is trying to create something for Black creators." — Rachel [118:23]

• They connect the current debate to past generational critiques (like Diana Ross being cast in "The Wiz" over Stephanie Mills)—the difference now is the amplifying power of social media.

Memorable Quotes & Moments

• [11:17, Rachel:] “All that to say rating is a zero.” (on Stephen A. Smith’s apology)
• [43:33, Van]: “Any weakness you show will be eaten, digested, and shitted back on Black people by white supremacy. That I do not back away from.”
• [90:41, Van]: “If we found out right now the first five games was fake... people would be more invested.”
• [94:43, Logan]: "They wore tight ass leather in the middle of August and then talk about me and these fly ass nails?"
• [101:40, Van]: "I'm thick, and when my thighs is thick and they feel better, I'm a thick nigga, ok? And I feel better when my balls is waxed."
• [116:21, Van]: “What if we just don't want to see this right now?... What if we don't want the fish-into-nigga story anymore?”

Timestamps for Key Segments

| Segment | Timestamp | |---------------------------------------------------------------------|:--------------:| | Economic/A.I. Bubble, AI Data Centers | 01:09–04:55 | | Stephen A. Smith & Apology to Jasmine Crockett | 08:29–29:55 | | Emmanuel Acho Response & Community Dialogues | 31:04–54:55 | | NBA Gambling Scandal (With Logan Murdoch) | 56:07–77:19 | | Sports, Celebrity, and the 24-Hour Cycle | 77:19–90:41 | | Masculinity, Nail Polish, Generational Shifts | 93:12–101:38 | | Keke Palmer, Southern Fried Rice, HBCU Rep & Black Authorship | 103:50–117:47 |

Tone & Takeaways

The show maintains its quick wit, irreverence, and unapologetic cultural criticism, making space for both laughter and serious introspection. Listeners walk away with:

• A deeper understanding of why apologies, representation, and community standards matter in Black media and politics
• Awareness of underlying economic and technological shifts shaping both cultural content and sports
• Insight into ongoing shifts in masculinity and why generational debates about expression are both cyclical and evolving
• Perspective on why debates over content like "Southern Fried Rice" are part of bigger struggles over narrative control and creative opportunity within Black communities

In their own words:
"Only the story matters. All this drama, that's what people are here for now." — Van [90:41]

For additional context, listen to the full episode on The Ringer or review specific timestamps as referenced above.