Stefon Diggs Not Guilty, the Return of Migos, and Do We Need the Met Gala?

Summary

Higher Learning with Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay

Episode Title: Stefon Diggs Not Guilty, the Return of Migos, and Do We Need the Met Gala?
Release Date: May 8, 2026

Episode Overview

Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay dissect the week’s headlines in Black culture, sports, and politics. The conversation flows from Van’s foray into comedy, a heated debate over how to respond to racial provocateurs, analysis of Stefon Diggs’s not-guilty verdict, cultural critiques of the Met Gala and billionaire philanthropy, celebrity internet dynamics, the return of Migos, media scandals, and the cult-like fervor in pop culture, sports, and politics. As always, they bring candid, often conflicting perspectives, humor, sharp legal analysis, and pop culture savvy.

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Key Segments & Insights

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1. Van’s Netflix Comedy Debut and the Fear Factor

Timestamp: 00:24–04:24

• Rachel kicks off by celebrating Van’s stand-up set at "Netflix is a Joke," praising his “star is born” performance:

  "He had us captivated from the very moment… You had him by the palm of your hand… Of course, the joke was sexual." (00:40, Rachel)

• Van admits he was paralyzed with fear, comparing pre-show nerves among the performers (including Macy Gray & Eric Benet) and detailing the backstage environment:

  "I was like, bro, I am fucking scared. Eric, I can’t do this… He was like, it’s weird. I can sing at the Hollywood Bowl in front of like 20,000 people. But this is different." (02:30, Van)

• Comedy discussion wraps with Van noting the exhilarating aftermath and plans to repeat the experience.

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2. Viral Racist Taunter: The Debate on Response

Timestamp: 04:30–13:56

• Van weighs in on viral videos of a man in Tennessee running around saying the N-word, reflecting on his personal evolution from feeling compelled to defend ancestral honor to prioritizing joy over rage:

  "The most radical, revolutionary thing that a Black person in America can experience is joy… you don’t owe him any violence. You don’t owe him any attention. You owe him nothing." (06:05–08:50, Van)

• Rachel strongly disagrees, advocating for some form of response—legal or social—to attempts at racial provocation:

  "You say that to me, that is a verbal assault. And however somebody responds to that can be warranted… I’m not gonna sit there and turn the other cheek." (09:03–10:58, Rachel)

• The segment features their classic respectful disagreement, ultimately agreeing that physical risk shouldn’t be the price for standing up.

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3. Stefon Diggs Not-Guilty Verdict

Timestamp: 16:38–25:13

• Van recaps the case: the chef’s allegations of assault, lack of physical evidence, and a quick acquittal signal “lack of convincing and credible evidence.”
• Rachel criticizes the prosecution’s handling:

  "I don’t understand how the prosecution allowed this case to go forward… It is your job to properly vet the case… If you don't, you’re wasting everyone’s time." (17:18–19:14, Rachel)

• On witness credibility:

  "Her story didn’t even add up… She could not explain why she did something and would say things like 'I don’t recall.'… The evidence was damning towards her." (19:26–24:29, Rachel)

• Van dives into uncomfortable territory regarding public narratives around false accusations and the need for thoughtful, case-by-case scrutiny (noting the pressure not to reinforce harmful stereotypes).

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4. Met Gala, Jeff Bezos, and the Optics of Rich Philanthropy

Timestamp: 31:32–43:39

• Protests against Jeff Bezos at the Met Gala ignite debate.
• They play Amazon worker Mary Hill’s viral protest message, confronting the billionaire:

  "If we built it, we can tear it down. Think about that tonight… Enjoy your damn gala." (32:33–32:45, Mary Hill)

• Rachel critiques obscenely visible wealth amid worker hardship and the Met Gala’s tone-deaf excess:

  "It's just so loud and in your face… It just feels like maybe this is something you should skip." (34:26–35:57, Rachel)

• Van contextualizes the Met Gala as a relic of a time when over-the-top philanthropy helped rationalize inequality. Now, he argues, the social contract is broken:

  "You can’t give away enough money at this point. The game is over… People are going to ask, do we need shit like this?" (36:12–38:09, Van)

• Suggests finding new ways to reconnect elite events with ordinary people, e.g., inviting Amazon workers to walk the carpet.

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5. MrBeast vs. Adele: Internet Celebrity Hierarchies

Timestamp: 44:26–52:38

• Viral tweet comparison: Adele is lauded for her artistry; MrBeast (YouTube megastar) simply gets “turns 28.”
• Van: "There are a lot of people that are famous because they give people something to watch… If you are that person… you are never ever, ever going to compete with anyone in any way who makes someone feel something." (49:15, Van)
• Rachel notes, despite not knowing his content well, that MrBeast's philanthropic side does make people feel things.
• Ends with light roasting of MrBeast for feeling underappreciated compared to Adele and discussion of the limits of internet fame.

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6. Migos Reunion & the Nature of Group Breakups

Timestamp: 57:13–62:07

• Rachel celebrates Quavo and Offset reuniting for new music:

  "They’re family and whatever differences they have, they should be able to come together… they’re better together." (57:42–58:30, Rachel)

• Van analyzes classic group dynamics—ego, success, and loss:

  "There's never a group that didn't make headlines… it was just regular music shit that seemed to force them apart… I thought it was just a matter of time until they realized… they're better off as family men." (58:30–60:13, Van)

• Discusses group reconciliations, comparing to New Edition.

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7. LA Mayoral Debate & Media Spin

Timestamp: 62:24–66:42

• Rachel and Van break down the LA debate, especially Spencer Pratt’s surprising agreement with Karen Bass despite his “outsider” framing.
• Rachel calls out social media “clip farming” that distorts original debates—portraying Pratt as a standout when he wasn’t in the full context.

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8. Media Literacy, Tucker Carlson, and Selective Outrage

Timestamp: 66:48–77:11

• Van critiques clip farming and the importance of media literacy:

  "I’m encouraging people to be sophisticated on this stuff… People want easy answers to complex and weighty problems." (70:31–71:28, Van)

• They discuss Tucker Carlson’s interviewing tactics and ideological pivots, warning against reducing nuances to viral soundbites.

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9. Dana White & Toxic Masculinity

Timestamp: 80:07–89:15

• Addressing Dana White’s disparagement of men speaking on mental health:

  "Men have a choice: kill themselves or kill their pride… To say that caring about your mental health… is weak or unattractive is… evil talk." (80:27–82:10, Van) "He is a dangerous man… it's about preserving a traditional masculinity that only does harm." (84:11–85:56, Rachel)

• They denounce the notion that vulnerability is weakness and connect it to broader cultural harm.

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10. Celebrity Scandal: Diana Rossini & Mike Vrabel

Timestamp: 89:49–99:14

• Discuss TMZ’s scoop about alleged long-term affair between Rossini and Vrabel. Rachel is cautious, focusing on privacy and impact on families, while Van marvels at the depth, suggesting the story’s endurance is fueled by lack of public acknowledgment.
• Both compare coverage to the Jada/Will/August Alsina saga, arguing media attention lingers most when parties deny or obfuscate.

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11. Van’s Top 5 “Dick Riding” Cults

Timestamp: 100:59–111:44

Van humorously ranks groups with cult-like fanaticism:

1. MAGA – “The number one, ironclad… maybe the best cult that’s ever lived.”
2. Joe Rogan comedians – Comedians pandering to Rogan’s views rather than their own.
3. Nikola Jokic stans – Exaggerating the NBA star’s legacy.
4. Crypto bros – Insistent evangelization despite market crashes.
5. Run Club people – Obsessiveness over running as a lifestyle. Honorable mention: Rap ‘hives’, Star Wars fans, “looks maxers”, and centrist Democrats.

“30% of MAGA thinks Trump could beat them in a fight. Trump is 80 years old, grotesquely obese.” (110:37, Van)

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12. “Contrarian” Label & Podcast Dynamics

Timestamp: 113:12–116:06

• Rachel accuses Van of being a habitual contrarian; Van insists his disagreements are earnest and not performative.
• Rachel promises a future “Top 5 Contrarian Moments” list.
• The two mock-depose each other, riffing on how Rachel’s legal training and Van’s talkativeness would play at a deposition.

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Notable Quotes

• Van Lathan on Joy vs. Retaliation:

  “We have to stop sacrificing joy to these fucking Neanderthals… Don’t give any consent to theft of joy by a scumbag lowlife.” (08:17, Van)

• Rachel Lindsay on Racist Provocation:

  “If someone is going to run up to me and say the N word to try to upset me… I’m not going to sit there and turn the other cheek. I’m going to respond in some kind of way, and that is going to bring me joy.” (10:13, Rachel)

• Van Lathan on Dana White/Masculinity:

  “Men have a choice whether or not they’re going to kill themselves or kill their pride… To say that caring about your mental health is weak or unattractive or something you shouldn't do is—it's evil talk.” (80:27, Van)

• Rachel Lindsay on Men’s Roles:

  “The reason that men feel so disconnected is because men feel more than just the monolith that [Dana White] wants to make men be… They always have.” (84:11, Rachel)

• Van Lathan on Billionaires/Philanthropy:

  “You can't give away enough money at this point. The game is over… The fundamental belief is gone.” (36:12–38:09, Van)

• Van Lathan on Group Breakups:

  “You’re going to see some sort of reconciliation from these groups. Particularly when these groups were together when they were young and… had a lot of success.” (61:04, Van)

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Episode Flow & Tone

The discussion is lively, often irreverent, with frequent asides and in-jokes (“Contrarian month,” “dick riding cults”), and a willingness to dissect both pop culture messiness and deeper societal issues. Van and Rachel maintain mutual respect despite ideological clashes, providing a model for rigorous but open debate.

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Recommended Listening Points

• Van’s Comedy Set Reflections: 00:24–04:24
• Racial Viral Video Debate: 04:30–13:56
• Stefon Diggs Verdict Legal Breakdown: 16:38–25:13
• Met Gala, Bezos, and Worker Solidarity: 31:32–43:39
• Migos & Music Group Dynamics: 57:13–62:07
• Dana White & Masculinity: 80:07–89:15
• Top 5 Dick Riding Cults: 100:59–111:44

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Summary prepared for those who want every insight, laugh, and cultural critique from Higher Learning—without skipping a beat.

Transcript

[Van Lathan]

Foreign. Yo, yo, yo, Thought warriors. What is up? Higher learning is on.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Is Ivan Lathan Jr. And it's me, Rachel and Lindsay.

[Van Lathan]

So wait a second now. I had something to say at the top of the show. Oh, oh, I did. I did.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Okay. Because I have something to say too.

[Van Lathan]

What do you have to say?

[Rachel Lindsay]

You go first. No, no, you go first.

[Van Lathan]

No, you go first. You go. Go ahead. No, no, seriously, you go first. Because I'm gonna talk for a long time.

[Rachel Lindsay]

I just have to say that this week, Van, basically, a star is born. A star is born.

[Van Lathan]

Oh, shit.

[Rachel Lindsay]

A star. We have to talk about this now. I never doubted you. As you know, Netflix is a joke's going on. Van did his comedic set. He did in true fashion, go over time, but he was telling a story. He. He had us captivated from the very moment I said. I told him after the show. I said, I feel like I have to eulogize the podcast at this point because I feel like a star is born and you might be on the road here. You could do the whole thing. It was very good. I thought the punchline was gonna come at the end of the story. You were sprinkling in jokes throughout. You had him by the palm of your hand the whole time. Just like this. Just like. No, no, no, I didn't do that. But that does in true Van fashion as well. That of course the joke was sexual.

[Van Lathan]

It was sexual.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Of course we got there. But you were very good. I have to clap. You were very good. You did a great job. I know you were nervous, but it was a really good thing and I hope you do it again.

[Van Lathan]

Guys, I wasn't nervous. I was dying. I was like, legitimately. I went through. The reason why if you guys. If my energy is a little low and it's been low on the podcast all week, is because I was drained by the emotional fear. I have no idea why I was so paralyzed with fear. I do.

[Rachel Lindsay]

I would never be. I could not do that. And I'm not as scared. Like, things like that don't scare me. I would be terrified to do that. And then listening to how good the other comedians were, did that make it worse? No, no, no. Everybody was good. These are non comedians.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah. Eric Benet. Macy Gray was fucking amazing.

[Rachel Lindsay]

She was good.

[Van Lathan]

So, like, I'm. But when I got up there, Eric Benet made it worse for me because when I got up there, he was nervous.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Oh, he was.

[Van Lathan]

All the women upstairs in the green room were having such a phenomenal time. They were laughing, you know, they Were Latinas. They were speaking Spanish and going crazy. And everybody was going crazy was the energy. And Eric Benet was in a room off to the side, pacing back and forth. And, like, I looked at him, he looked at me. I was like, bro, I am fucking scared. I was like, dog, I can't do this. I was like, eric, I can't do it, right? I can't do this. And he was like, it's weird. I can sing at the Hollywood bowl in front of, like, 20,000 people. But this is different. I had some drinks, and the drinks

[Rachel Lindsay]

were killing the people, and Van is not a drinker. So that's.

[Van Lathan]

So then Francesca comes over, and she goes, okay, no more drinks, because if you have another drink, you're gonna get drunk. Then I went downstairs. They were like, it's your time to go up. I went downstairs, and when I went downstairs, I was sitting in the corner like this, and I was like. I was literally looking at Kalika. I was like, I don't think I can do it. I'm not gonna be able to go up there and do it.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Yeah. She kept coming over to us, and she was like, I gotta go back to Van. She was like, I'm just coming to see y', all, but I gotta go back to van. I was like, please, go do your thing.

[Van Lathan]

But after I did it, it was fun. It was interesting. I think I'm going again on July 17th with Ida. I think. I think I'm going again. I have a.

[Rachel Lindsay]

You're going where? On the road.

[Van Lathan]

I'm going on the road. I wrote a Charlie Kirk joke. Do you guys want to hear it?

[Rachel Lindsay]

Don't you want to save it for the show?

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, I want to. I want to. I want to.

[Rachel Lindsay]

No, no, no, that's not. We're not doing that.

[Van Lathan]

I want to prep the joke, and then we can take the joke out.

[Rachel Lindsay]

We're not testing the jokes.

[Van Lathan]

I did the same thing on the Midnight Boys. You guys want to hear the joke? Because we have some people that are observing workshop it. Would you guys like to hear the joke?

[Rachel Lindsay]

I don't know if we can have. We have a choice, but go ahead. We support you.

[Van Lathan]

I'm not gonna do this set. I'm gonna do the same set that I did before on the 17th. But, you know, I was gonna tell the story of. By the way. We have to take that out of the podcast. We have to bleep it. But, like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But, like, yeah, yeah.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Well, we know what will come after. We're gonna have Some kind of Erica Kirk video. I don't know who she'll dress as this time.

[Van Lathan]

You know, gotta skip some steps. I don't get there. Oh, this is what I wanted to say before we get into the podcast. There's a guy. I've been seeing these videos and they've been going viral of this gentleman that I think is in Tennessee. I don't know if you guys have heard of this guy who is running

[Rachel Lindsay]

around, oh, saying the N word.

[Van Lathan]

Saying the N word.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

Okay. Now, as these videos continue to find me, you know, I have thoughts. You know, I've said here before that part of my duty to my ancestors is to not endure any pain that they had to endure. So a lot of times when someone says the N word or when they call you that, you think of the fact that there was once a time when people were called that and they couldn't respond. And you need to respond and assert your strength to make their sacrifice. For that strength, to respect that sacrifice, you need to make sure that you stand up for people who couldn't stand up. And I've thought about that for a long time, and I've operated under that operating paradigm for a long time. That's been my modus operandi for a long time with dealing with disrespect, particularly from white people. But I thought about something in this situation that my ancestors actually wanted for me more. What's up, Joy?

[Rachel Lindsay]

4.

[Van Lathan]

They wanted Joy for me. What my ancestors and what my great grandfather, Big Papa, what Big Mama, what all of the old black people wanted for me more than anything was joy. They wanted me to experience freedom, joy and existence in this society without being scared, without being angry, be angry. Because the most radical, revolutionary thing that a black person in America can experience is joy. Is joy under the construction of this country that is meant to kill them. Therefore, the most important, the single most important job or way to show strength that any black person, any person that's living in this country in a situation where they are marginalized, oppressed, your single most important job, the thing that you can give to yourself, the gift you can give to yourself or your ancestors, grandparents, people that came before you, is joy. And not letting anyone steal your joy when they are trying to do it purposefully even more, not letting someone take the joy that your ancestors earned for you, that people that fought for you earned for you. Not letting someone put you in a position where you are reactive, put you in a position where you're putting your freedom on the line, where you're putting Your safety on the line by taking the pain that people had to go through and then leveraging that pain against you. That's not just something that you. That shouldn't be a sacrifice. You should want to do that. And any bum, ass, stupid, like, insane person that comes along and tries to take hundreds and hundreds of years of degradation, decades and decades of abuse, and tries to use that as a weapon to bring you out of yourself, to put him in a situation where he is emotionally or rhetorically or sometimes legally more powerful than you, to use that as a way to kill you, you don't owe him that. You don't owe him any violence. You don't owe him any thought. You don't owe him any attention. You owe him nothing. A mosquito, you don't even have to kill him if you don't want to. Just shoo him. Move on. I know it's hard. I know it's hard. But we have to stop sacrificing joy to these fucking Neanderthals. If you do something, I'mma bail you out of jail. I'm sorry. If you do something. If you do something, I'm going to bail you out of jail. That's straight. But the reality of it is don't. Don't do anything. Don't be moved. Don't give any content, don't give any consent to theft of joy by a scumbag lowlife like this.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Wow, I almost feel like this is Zen. Van, I could not disagree with you more.

[Van Lathan]

Oh, wow, There you go.

[Rachel Lindsay]

And I am not one. I'm not saying that it has to be a violent response, but I think for me, the fact that you want to wear, which we see time and time again in various ways. In this way, it is a content creator using it through his platform. But we see people use black people use their pain for their own advancement or to seek attention. And I'm tired of it. And we've sat here on this podcast before and talked about the N word and how that is a form of violence. Like, you say that to me, that is a verbal assault. And however somebody responds to that can be warranted because the person is saying it to you to cause pain, to cause a reaction. I'm not saying you're wrong in what you're saying. I'm just saying I couldn't disagree more. I think it would bring me great joy to you. Want to cause me pain? How can I return the favor to you? Now? There's various ways to do that. I could pick up the phone and call the Police. I could take a picture of you, find out where you work, call your employer. I could, you know, if you're a student, I could. I could do. Call, like your university. I could put this out here where it harms you in other ways. There are other ways to do it than physical violence. But to me, if someone is going to run up to me and say the N word to try to upset me, knowing we know the weight of that word, I'm not gonna sit there and turn the other cheek. I'm going to respond in some kind of way, and that is going to bring me joy. Now, it doesn't have to be what he wants, which is like, you know, maybe to someone to fight him. Maybe then he can turn around and use. Call the cops on that in that way. But there will be a response for me in some kind of way.

[Van Lathan]

So let me make sure that I'm saying this correctly. You know, all of the stuff that you're talking about has been done with this guy. There's no need.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Oh, I'm sure.

[Van Lathan]

And so, like, there's nothing that you can do in terms like he's the lowest of the low. Obviously, somebody that goes on a live stream and says the N word a hundred thousand times is not worried about anybody finding out where they work.

[Rachel Lindsay]

And Kik did kick him off. Kick did kick him off.

[Van Lathan]

There's always gonna be some type of place, some type of place where he can go, sure. Okay. If you find yourself in a position, I'm reacting to the videos that I'm seeing. I'm reacting to videos where pepper spray is being used, where he's legitimately daring people to come over so that he can then pepper spray them and then shoot them. That happens, you guys. That's a win for him. These people want to put you in a position so that they can then do violence to you. This person is insane, okay? This person is. They've lost their mind. They've lost their mind. They want to find a reason to hurt you. That Perfect Neighbor documentary where I watched this woman use and manipulate the law. Now in that situation, she.

[Rachel Lindsay]

She went to jail.

[Van Lathan]

She went to jail. Use and manipulate the law to put a black woman in a position so that she could kill her. When I think about situations like Trayvon Martin, I think about these other situations. I'm not saying that anyone has to cower in front of somebody that's calling them the N word. Fuck you. Get off my dick. All of that stuff. All of that stuff is good. But I'm telling you Right now, it's not worth pepper spray in your eyes. It is not worth you going back and forth, even physically. It's not worth a night in jail. We gonna cover you if something happens, but none of that stuff is worth it. It's just not. It's just not like I'm not asking anyone, ever, anyone, anywhere, to walk around and be called the N word. What I'm telling you is in this situation where someone is purposefully putting you in a position where your safety and your freedom could be in his hands by weaponizing your pain, you don't owe him that interaction. Well, that and that. And that is all. That is all I'm saying. This right here is the lowest of the low. This is the dregs of society. This is the worst of the worst. It don't get no worse, no better like I am. It don't get any worse than this. And I'm saying us as people, who we are, we don't owe him to go here.

[Rachel Lindsay]

I agree with you. I agree.

[Van Lathan]

I even feel bad, even talk.

[Rachel Lindsay]

I agree with you about endangering themselves. But I think that there are other ways, and that's more of what. What I'm saying.

[Van Lathan]

Gotcha. Stefan Diggs, not guilty of assault. What do you think?

[Rachel Lindsay]

I didn't really look into this.

[Van Lathan]

You stop telling us. Jade. Jade.

[Rachel Lindsay]

I didn't even see. See, I can't see you because I turned this document. No, I've been this.

[Van Lathan]

Let's take a break. First years. You stop telling us you want to fight, you top.

[Rachel Lindsay]

We can argue.

[Van Lathan]

Jay, shut up. I'm trying to talk to the people. I was giving a heartfelt about this guy. I hate this guy.

[Rachel Lindsay]

I mean.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, it's. Yeah, like God, do me one. I pray all the time and I keep my faith. Even though my pray, my prayers aren't answered. Give me one. Can we get one? Can we get a torn acl? A broken. Can we get. I'm praying on the down. I'm praying on the downfall. I'm praying on the downfall. Like, can we get one? We haven't got one in a while. Like, can we get one? I need this one.

[Rachel Lindsay]

If we need one, I would. I would direct this to somebody else, but I would direct this. I would direct it elsewhere, but. Yeah, let's take a.

[Van Lathan]

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[Rachel Lindsay]

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[Van Lathan]

let's take a break. James Right, jury finds Stefan Diggs not guilty of assault Donnie Right, as you just said, a jury found Diggs not guilty on all charges which include felony strangulation, misdemeanor assault, and this is all following a two day trial in Boston. The case stemmed from an incident last year that involved his former personal chef who alleged that he slapped and choked her during a dispute over pay. But during the trial, defense witnesses and testimony challenged the accuser's credibility, noting no physical evidence, no visible injuries, and inconsistencies in her account. Did you follow this trial at all

[Rachel Lindsay]

after it was done? I really went and looked back at a bunch of the testimony. I didn't follow it before, so I wasn't aware of like I knew what the accusation was, but I was not aware of like all the details surrounding it. Okay, after it came out and I saw the testimony this I don't understand how the prosecution allowed this case to go forward. Oh, this makes absolutely no sense to me. And here's the thing. This isn't me saying I believe you know, Ms. Adams or I believe Mr. Diggs here. This is more of as as the state when you were the prosecution. It is your job to properly vet the case. It is your job to properly prepare your witnesses and have your Evidence in order. And if you don't do those things and you have the higher burden of proof. Right. But beyond a reasonable doubt, if you know that you can't do that, then you don't have a case and you're pretty much wasting everybody's time. When I watch testimony of Ms. Adams, when I watched the testimony from the other witnesses that were privy to her before, during, and after the alleged incident, I do not understand how you thought you had enough to move forward to find him guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. I just don't. They. And even if they maybe did, I would imagine, of course, that they would have sat down and prepped her before. If you felt like she wasn't answering questions or there were holes in her story or that she was maybe combative as a witness, as we saw her when the trial was actually happening, then you should have again decided to not move forward with this case, or you should have waited until you could get it together. If you felt like, you know, you do believe her story and you wanted to move forward with it. They were not prepared. This was a bad presentation.

[Van Lathan]

Well, it seems like she was clearly lying.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Maybe she was. Maybe. I'm not gonna say yay or nay. I'm gonna blame this on the state. If she was. If she wasn't lying, it looked like she was.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Rachel Lindsay]

And my thing was, it's one thing if she comes up and says something and then people come up and say something different. Her story didn't even add up. Her. The evidence. She could not explain why she did something and would say things like, I don't recall. I don't remember. I don't understand. It's almost as if she didn't even anticipate the questions that were going to be thrown her way by the defense, which is what the prosecution does as they're preparing their witness for trial. You have to prepare them for the cross. So I do not know why this case went forward at all. This looks really bad on the state.

[Van Lathan]

90 minute verdict. Excuse me? 90 minute verdict. Verdict in 90 minutes. Lack of convincing and credible evidence presented by the prosecution. That's what that signals. Now, it's interesting here. When I saw her on the stand, it seemed as if not anything that she said, could she back up. This is my question to you. Legal eagle situation. If she is suing him civilly, that seems to be a situation to where you guys, I don't want to.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Is she suing him civilly?

[Van Lathan]

I don't know that she's suing him civilly, but what I'm saying is I've seen a lot of frivolous civil suits. I just. I have. It's a thing where you talk about.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Now, there's actually a problem here.

[Van Lathan]

I've seen a lot of frivolous civil suits. I've seen a lot of civil suits, guys where the people are fucking lying. It's the deal where they just making shit up. They've seen a lot of civil suits like that. Like, through my time at tmz, some of the civil suits were for comedy purposes. I always bring this up, but there was one person that was able to just do a suit, and it was funny. And I know that you guys don't like when I laugh at stuff like this, but in one of these civil suits, this guy said. Say it again. He said that he was at Disney World and he ran into Johnny Manziel. And Johnny Manziel exposed himself to him outside the It's a Small, Small World.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Right. Oh, you did say. You said this,

[Van Lathan]

that he was exposing himself while singing It's a Small, Small World, referring to his. He's saying, it's an Oscar mine. I was like, and these suits were intentionally crazy, and we would report on them, but the guy's obviously lying in this situation. This is a criminal trial, though.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

So I guess my question is, why do you think they brought it? Like, it's. This is the part to where, for the barrier of entry or whatever, the threshold is very low in the civil trial can do pretty much whatever you want. It's up to the person to go out there and do whatever. But in this situation, the state here is supposed to look at all of the evidence and make a determination about whether or not charges like this are going to be brought? Do you think that there is a part of them that either wanted to get a big fish like Stephon Diggs or were afraid not to move forward with charges because he is famous, and it would look like they weren't taking the victim's allegations seriously.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Possibly. I mean, I'd have to speculate whether it was one or the other. I don't know what motivated them to do it. And here's the thing, too. It's like, again, it's an alleged story. She has the option to sue civilly because she could, say, emotional distress. I mean, there is testimony from her that because of her fear of being allegedly strangled, that she urinated on herself. It's more likely than not, is the burden of proof in a civil case. And so she has a higher chance of a victory. If she went civilly, and maybe she will, maybe she has. I have no idea. But again, this is up to the state. They decide if they look at the evidence and say, we want to go forward, they're not going to go forward just because they feel the pressure because of him being famous, that shouldn't be the motivation. And it also shouldn't be the motivation that because he's famous, they want the attention that's going to be brought to them. Because to be honest, what's the first thing I said? The prosecution messed up. I actually think this makes them look really bad, because it looks like that they were in. Sorry, incompetent as attorneys because they did not either vet the case or prep her properly.

[Van Lathan]

But you stop short at calling her a liar. You don't think that's fair.

[Rachel Lindsay]

I mean, she did lie on some of it. They did actually catch her in some of it. Like when they said, why did you delete these messages? There were text messages that were in. Some of the. The wording was damning towards her. And she admitted she was like, yeah, I removed it. And they were like, why? Or she said she didn't get paid. And then someone comes up and they're like, you actually got overpaid.

[Van Lathan]

You got paid.

[Rachel Lindsay]

You actually got paid more than you were supposed to. And then when she explains, you know, the details around it all and you know, how something was supposed to happen for her, and then it got taken away. Like, it. Again, this is the reasonable doubt. There is doubt created here because it looks like, based on the defense and what was presented, that she was being vindictive because she didn't get to go to Miami for Art Basel. That's what it looks like. That is doubt. And if you don't have any evidence to move that out of a jury's mind, you should not present the case. And that sucks for someone who's alleging something that happened to them. But also, the state has a duty. They have a burden of proof.

[Van Lathan]

So I sent around a video of L. Duncan. It's an interesting video. And the video is of Craig Harden asking L. Duncan if she feels like. What do you ask her if she feels like? The Diana Rossini Greatest Love story of Our time with Mike Vrabel. If that puts women in sports media in a bad situation because they're always

[Rachel Lindsay]

up against this, they're gonna reference this incident.

[Van Lathan]

They're always up against this notion that they are using their feminine wiles to get ahead. And Elle answers the question and says, no, of course not. I reject that because anyone that would believe that I'm using my feminine wiles to get ahead is not gonna listen to. They already believe that. Right. She says it so much more eloquently than I could ever say it. She goes, a reasonable person would not think that every woman that's in this business has to sleep their way to the top. I'll tell you why I bring that

[Rachel Lindsay]

up and I just want to say what she also says is if someone does think that, then they were always going to think that.

[Van Lathan]

They were always going to think that.

[Rachel Lindsay]

And I think that's a really good point.

[Van Lathan]

And you're not. And you're always chasing crit credibility with that person. Reason why I bring this up is because it is sometimes uncomfortable for us to talk about situations like this where an accuser is lying. Because we have to volleyball that with a societal notion of bitches be lying, hoes are liars, niggas that feel that way and that in any situation, whether the accusations are credible or not, will look for a reason to dismiss the accuser's claims. And we sometimes want to say that, hey, there's never a situation or a case where someone is being less than truthful because that gives steroids and ammunition, strengthens and gives more firepower to people, to the whole holes. That's lying contingent. Okay? The reason why I bring up the L thing is because those guys are gone. They're gone. Anyone that has a discussing enough worldview to look at somebody that's making this type of accusation or has put themselves on a line like this and say that they are 100% lying or that this is a means to control rich and powerful men. Those people are not the people that we are in this conversation with. They're just gone. And for whatever reason, they're gone. Maybe they believe too much of the old wives tale about how you gotta watch out for every single woman lurking around to take and harvest everything from you, it's like, whatever, okay, cool. So when we're having this conversation in good faith, we're not talking about them because they're out of here right now. We still have to contend with them because there are way more of them than we think that they are. But in this situation, as intelligent people, there are going to be times where we have to look at a situation and be like, hey, she straight up is not telling the truth. And not just in a case like this, but in any case with some of the favorite people that we like, men and women, to where they're gonna say something jussie Smollett say something, and we're gonna be like, hey. He's like, you know, like, sometimes people are gonna claim racism, people are gonna claim stuff like this. And we have to be able to go, hey, they're not telling the truth.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Van Lathan]

Now, in that case, believe what it is that you want to believe. But I personally, the way I look at it is I don't believe him. Right. But at the same time, I think it's time for Jussie to come back, man.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Oh, nobody said he can't come back.

[Van Lathan]

There were people that think that Jussie can't come back. I think that Jussie, it shouldn't end his career. Done a lot of good work. Yeah. But I think that there are a lot of people that go, oh, he put people in this type of situation and said this. I know he would still be mad at me for saying that. This and that. I don't believe the story. Is very upset. He. He's already been very upset. Cause I made a joke and stuff like that. But I think that people were under a lot of pressure. They were under a lot of stress. Everyone. People do weird shit sometimes. There really wasn't a victim in it to me. And so I'm like, hey, man, I can't wait to see Jussie back on top. But I'm forgiving like that. I'm forgiving like that. I mean, and I hope that this woman can cook again.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Did you see the dried up hot dog? Did y' all see that? One of the testimonies, it was like, well, what did she cook? And she's like, it was a hot dog. It was dried up.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Now, I saw a picture of it, but I don't know if that was just like a social media thing or if that was really what it looked like, but it was just bread in a. In a burnt wiener.

[Van Lathan]

What I do love is these articles on espn because they always got to bring it back to sports. The last paragraph on ESPN is Diggs thousand yard season marked the seventh of his career completed successful career revival after season ending knee injury. Like, they always got to bring it back to sports.

[Rachel Lindsay]

It's funny to me, but do you think that he. That they let him go because of this?

[Van Lathan]

The Patriots, what? Stephon Diggs. Stephon Diggs was into a lot of shit, man.

[Rachel Lindsay]

I just. Oh, yeah, there was the pink bad.

[Van Lathan]

There was the pink bad. There was just a lot of shit going on with Stephan Diggs. If you want to be the type of. If you want to have the type of personal life and peccadillos and all of this type of shit that Stephon Diz got, you gotta. You can't be no thousand yards. You gotta be up there around 16, 1700. You gotta catch like 120 balls. Probably like 17 touchdowns. You can do all of this stuff. Cause it's got guys that. You can do all of this. But you gotta produce more than Stefan Diggs's producer right now. But I hope everybody is cool. Everybody. I mean, you know, she lied. She did one of the worst things you could do to try to get the nigga locked up, but it didn't work. So, you know, now that was one point.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, they'd known each other for years. When she was like, he didn't pay me that week. He sent me home. They were like. She was like, he sent me home because he had girls over. And I'm like, oh, like you telling on yourself?

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, she. She's a little. She lied. She lied. Okay, Met Gala. This is okay.

[Rachel Lindsay]

This is not me. Rach, do you consider me a fashion. A fashion girly?

[Van Lathan]

That's what you say. So, like.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Yeah, I literally never said that. But I do like fashion, yeah.

[Van Lathan]

The event this year faced significant backlash. This is after Jeff Bezos was named an honorary chair and major sponsor. Sparking protests across New York City, activists projected a video Message from 72 year old Amazon worker Mary Hill onto Jeff Bezos's Manhattan penthouse. Let's hear from Ms. Hill.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Bezos, my name is Mary Hill. I'm a 72 year old warehouse worker

[Van Lathan]

at one of your facilities.

[Rachel Lindsay]

When we struggle from paycheck to paycheck

[Van Lathan]

from week to week, we're need angers we.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Because if it weren't for every associate in every Amazon facility, he wouldn't have

[Van Lathan]

all those zeros behind his name.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Shame on you, Jeff Bezos.

[Van Lathan]

The people that need to be being

[Rachel Lindsay]

celebrated at the Met dollar other workers,

[Van Lathan]

people like me, we deserve that celebration. We deserve so much more than we're getting.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Remember, Jeff, ordinary people like myself that

[Van Lathan]

help make you billionaires.

[Rachel Lindsay]

If we built it, we can tear it down. Think about that tonight, okay? Enjoy your damn gala.

[Van Lathan]

Tough. Tough stuff.

[Rachel Lindsay]

She's right, you know, I. There was a lot of criticism. There were protests. There were. I think there are always protests at the Met Gala. But there were Amazon workers who did their own gala and their own fashion shows, which was interesting. But I also, as many people as there are being critical, I'm also seeing a number of people who are like, so what it was interesting. I was watching the View and to see their take on it. And Whoopi Goldberg was kind of like, and I'm paraphrasing, but just basically the sentiment was like, if, yes, there are things that are going on in this world, but if somebody wants to go and dress up for a gala, that shouldn't erase some of the other good that they do. And there was kind of an agreeance amongst the panel about, at least in the part that I was watching about, like, yeah, like, you should be able to go to the Met Gala, you know, if you choose to do. And that doesn't define who you are as an entire person. And I think the thing with Bezos is that it's different because it's almost like this is the cherry on top. You know, you have Amazon workers saying that they're being worked so hard that they can't even take a bathroom break and they have to use the bathroom in bottles of water. You have, you know, the testimony of the woman here and the various other people that they projected across buildings in New York City. You have major layoffs. You have that also with other things that he owns with the Washington Post and the editorial decisions that are being made over there. You have him donating millions and millions of dollars to the President's inauguration fund. You have him paying $40 million for Melania's movie. You have him having a $50 million wedding. You have him and then you see him on a $500 million yacht. Yet you have workers that are saying they're being overworked. You have. You're doing all these layoffs. You're still making all this money where you can show off and we have to watch this affluent life you're living, but then also see all these people who are suffering at the hand hands of it. And it just his richness, obviously we know he's rich, but it's just so loud and in your face when also what's in your face are the number of people that are struggling who are making you rich. And that's what seems to be so grotesque about him then attending the Met Gala because he bought his way to be a part of it in such as a chair for he and Lauren. And the backdrop is a city of people where one in four are in poverty, where people are struggling to where even Mamdani was like, I'm not attending it because it's just such an in your face. And the fact that that isn't something that is being recognized to me is problematic. Like yeah, you can go to nice things and you can dress up, but when you have it as it being a Bezos affair, when the people who work for him are talking about their struggles, it just feels like maybe this is something that you should skip. Brownie.

[Van Lathan]

So

[Rachel Lindsay]

come on.

[Van Lathan]

So here's the thing about the Met Gala. The Met Gala assumes something. Because the Met Gala is a fundraiser, right? It's a fundraiser.

[Rachel Lindsay]

It is a fundraiser for the arts.

[Van Lathan]

It's a fundraiser for the arts. But in it being a fundraiser, the Met Gala assumes something. The Met Gala to me, assumes a belief and an understanding that the people at the Met Gala, the richest, most famous, most beautiful amongst us, that they are connected to ordinary people. Because it's a fundraiser. See, it being a fundraiser means that the sort of the decadence of the Met Gala is okay because it goes to a good cause. The reason why that type of philanthropic deal is important for the mega rich is because it kind of reinforces the American belief really, with some of the part of American culture is that what's good for the really rich is good for everyone. So if it's 2015 or if it's 2005 or 2010 and you're watching the Met Gala, you're able to enjoy the Met Gala. Because the Met Gala isn't just to celebrate these incredibly beautiful, rich, well dressed, perfect people. It's also for the arts. And the arts is for everyone. The arts is for you. That fundamental belief to me no longer exists. You can't give away enough money at this point. The game is over. It's over. It's over. You can't give away enough money. People are holding onto that. People are holding onto the belief to me, that you can have this much money parked. All of that. Your Cap gang is going crazy every single year. And that that's okay because you can give back enough to offset the damage that your riches do to Sadi. That's gone. So it doesn't matter if Jeff Bezos is the person behind the Met Gala or if he's the co chair of the Met Gala.

[Rachel Lindsay]

He.

[Van Lathan]

It doesn't matter. Moving forward, people will ask, do we need shit like this? And the reason why they'll ask is because I'm not standing on a hot look. People love the Met Gala. It's very important in fashion, it's very important in all of that. It's a cultural event. All of this stuff. People are going to ask the question, moving forward of all of this type of stuff, of any place where the rich and famous are Celebrated. They're going to ask the question, is there anything in this for us? Is this a part of us in any way? Because once again, when things are better, when you have a little bit more money in your pocket, when the economy is moving, when it's working a little bit better for you, you might be able to have a good time, have some fun, do all of that stuff. You might be able to do that, right? But in this case, especially with this group of guys, Jeff Bezos, Mark Zuckerberg, all of those people who rolled over and showed their fucking bellies to Donald Trump and to everything, you know, that they don't stand for anything, that they are bottom line, bottom dollar slaves. And if that means you got to work 50 hours, then you got to work 50 hours. If that means your son or daughter has to go to Iran, then they're going to. If all of that stuff has to happen for them to go to the moon, land a rocket, have a boat, date a younger woman, do the whole thing, that's what the fuck you gonna do? And so people know that now. They know it. Not one of these guys has stood up and been like, no, I don't agree with this. As a matter of fact, they did the opposite. When it was in vogue to be down with the people, they was down with the people. And when it was in vogue to be down with Palpatine and Vader, they did that too. So we know it's a lie. So, like, so now when you look at this situation with him being there, it is a reminder that what this is and what this has always been, it's a celebration of really rich, really famous, really powerful people. It's just back in the day, it didn't bother you as much. Now I keep trying to say this. Everyone is trying to say this. The fucking shit is falling apart. The Oz is being revealed and people are going, wait a second, man. This is getting better for one group of people, and I'm not a part of that. So I don't really give a fuck how much your outfit costs. Cost $100,000. You look great. We don't understand it in the first place. I don't give a fuck how much it costs. It is what it is. This is not to besmirk anybody that went. And I'll tell you why I'm not doing that. It's because. Don't. I'm just. I'm trying to. Shut up. Jade. Jade. I took my glasses off because I'm trying to be a human person here.

[Rachel Lindsay]

I know but when you put them back on. I always put them on crooked.

[Van Lathan]

Is that.

[Rachel Lindsay]

And I can't. I can't correct you in the middle of your rant, but you can.

[Van Lathan]

No.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Do your thing.

[Van Lathan]

I don't.

[Rachel Lindsay]

You always put them on crooked.

[Van Lathan]

They don't go back on, right? No.

[Rachel Lindsay]

And then it gives. When that gives, old man.

[Van Lathan]

But what about this, though? What about. Cause I figured out I could do this and look at stuff.

[Rachel Lindsay]

I really love that look.

[Van Lathan]

And then I could look at the computer, and I can look at Jade. This is all I'm gonna say.

[Rachel Lindsay]

I like that. Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

That's all I'm saying. I'm not talking about. I'm not calling for Grace for the celebrities at the Met Gala, but I am saying this. These people, their whole lives, they were told. Look at Rachel. They were told that getting to the Met Gala was a part of the deal. And when I'm talking about this, even when I was talking about the Jay Z and the capitalism thing, when I said that I understood what he was saying in terms of his whole life, they were telling him, hey, this is what you need to do. And then you get there. People go, wait a minute. This thing is bad. So all the Met Gala people, they were like, hey, one day I want to be beautiful and dressed in Dior, dripping in Prada, Fendi, Bottega, Louis. Oh, look at me. I got the Balenciaga one day. And so now to get to that point, and then to have somebody tell you, hey, you're really supporting something I would get how, for some people, that. That would be either confusing or something that they would be like, wait a minute, hold on now. When I get to the Met Gala. The Met Gala's bad. Or when I get here to be. I understand that from a human perspective, but what I'm saying is these types of things are going to be fucking litigated. But especially when you got that black lady who look like somebody's grandma.

[Rachel Lindsay]

72 years.

[Van Lathan]

72 years old. Still working. Still working. I got so many questions. That woman own a home? Is there any type of ownership or wealth that she has? What is her life like? That's whose life I fucking care about right now. I don't give a fuck who built and made your outfit, how long it took to create, how long the train is on, the dress, the theme of the Met Gala, none of it. I don't give a fuck about any of it. I care about that woman's life. That was brilliant. And that's not going away. So they might as well, in the next Met Gala, they should take 40 people from Amazon to dress them up. They should go to some small town and put some lady in all of that stuff that never gets a chance to do that. They should figure out who the fuck needs to be able to. They should. If they care about people.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Yeah, I don't. I don't really care about people going as much either, but with the basis of it all, it's like.

[Van Lathan]

You want to go.

[Rachel Lindsay]

No, I. Actually, it's. It's not for me, but I just. It's just the basis of it all. Like, you just. It's all the millions of dollars you're spending, and you have so many people suffering, and it's like, why would you want to be in a picture with this person? Why would you want to be affiliated with something with someone who easily could redirect his money, but instead he lays people off so he can continue to live this? And then just the tackiness of it all. Like, they so busy trying to be so cool, they keep trying to buy their way to cool. You can't buy cool. And every single time, Lauren and Jeff. Yeah, like, it just. It just doesn't work.

[Van Lathan]

Can I throw something into the pot? Can I throw something in? Okay, so MrBeast just did something that's very funny to me. Okay, so y'. All. Y' all familiar with pop bass?

[Rachel Lindsay]

It's food. This episode is brought to you by Prime Obsession is in session. And this summer, prime originals have everything you want. Steamy romances, irresistible love stories. And the book to screen favorites you've already read twice off campus. Elle every year after the love Hypothesis. Sterling point and more. Slow burns, second chances, chemistry you can feel through the screen. Your next obsession is waiting. Watch only on Prime.

[Van Lathan]

This episode is brought to you by Boar's Head. What if we told you the taste of deep fried turkey is now available at your local deli? Well, Borishead just did that. Bursting with flavor, perfectly seasoned with that indulgent taste that usually means planning your whole day around it. Presenting the Friar's turkey breast only from Boar's Head, a backyard tradition now available behind the counter. Visit your local deli today. Discover the craftsmanship behind every bite. Boar's Head, committed to craft since 1905. Pop base is a Twitter handle. Oh, okay, so it's not a huge Twitter handle, but it is a Twitter handle. Okay, so it's both MrBeast's birthday, and it's also Adele's birthday. So they both have the same birthday. Wouldn't you know It. So Adele's birthday, I guess Adele's birthday was two days ago. Actually, Adele's birthday, it said, Happy 38th birthday to the iconic Adele. The Emmy 16 time Grammy and Oscar winning vocalist is one of the biggest forces in music music history. With numerous records to her name, including one of the fastest selling albums of the 21st century. She is one of the best selling, most acclaimed artists of all time. And it has these beautiful pictures of Adele. Like see right here, beautiful pictures of Adele. Now, Mr. Beast's birthday was today. And this is what it said. It said, Mr. Beast turns 28. So Mr. Beast responded.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Oh, he did?

[Van Lathan]

Okay, he did. Mr. Beast said, I find it funny how different these two tweets are. And they kicked Mr. Beast's motherfucking ass. After he said that, then he came back and he said, I'm not being crucified over this tweet, guys. I didn't say anywhere I'm better than Adele. I just thought the contrast was funny. Stop reaching and live a little.

[Rachel Lindsay]

They could have given him more of a description.

[Van Lathan]

Okay, you know what? Here's the thing. This is something. This is. Mr. Beast is wildly successful for Mr. Beast. You was mad. Do you feel like he was mad?

[Rachel Lindsay]

Yeah, he was bothered. He was a little. It was a little embarrassing for him.

[Van Lathan]

Embarrassing because MrBeast has 34.6 million followers on Twitter. Million followers on Twitter. Mr. Beast is looking around, I'm the motherfucking man. And he thought that they was gonna give him the same love that they gave to Adele, and they didn't.

[Rachel Lindsay]

I think we can admit it's a little. He wanted to feel some respect.

[Van Lathan]

Okay?

[Rachel Lindsay]

And he feels disrespected.

[Van Lathan]

Okay?

[Rachel Lindsay]

That's what. That's what. That's what he feels. I mean, he got acknowledged.

[Van Lathan]

He's a big time celebrity.

[Rachel Lindsay]

He got acknowledged. At least they said, happy birthday.

[Van Lathan]

Can I. So this is interesting to me, the fact that Mr. Beast. Okay, what's your favorite MrBeast joint?

[Rachel Lindsay]

I don't follow Mr. Beast like that, but my nephews are big fans of his Amazon show.

[Van Lathan]

They big fans of Amazon show. Y' all folk with MrBeast too. Mr. Beast. Sometimes. Sometimes I see something on YouTube and it'll be like, can you survive a year in a bunker with only fucking pissy sticks? Can you and your ex live underwater in a fucking igloo? Like, can you fucking. Can you put your hand on the surface of the sun for five seconds? Mr. Beast finds out, like, I see this stuff and I'm like, God damn, I'm looking at this shit and I'm watching and it is what it is. But like, I think this is a fascinating look into the difference between someone who gives you something to watch and somebody who makes you feel like. And I want everybody to understand this. There are a lot of people out there that are famous because they give people something to watch. They give them a way to pass the time, a cool spectacle to look at. If you are that person, there are riches and there is fame and there is access. In that you are never ever, ever going to compete with anyone in any way who makes someone feel something.

[Rachel Lindsay]

You know, what's.

[Van Lathan]

Who produces a song that reminds them of their. Of the first time they fell in love or a movie that makes them like re examine their situation or anything. The ability to make a human being feel emotion is going to take that person and put them in a different plane than somebody who can stream for a long time or do a stunt or something like that. It's not the same, all of that stuff like that. When he's looking at Adele, that's because people fucking love Adele because they hear her voice and it make them want to get to crying and shit.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Yeah, I mean, true. But I guess even though I'm not as familiar with Mr. Beast, to your point about feeling things, one of the biggest things I know about him is how charitable he is and that. And there is a feeling like that because I don't consume his content. Again, I know his show cause of my nephews, but I feel like I'm always seeing stories about how charitable he is. So I'm like, oh, he makes a lot of money. He does a lot of stuff, but he gives back a lot. There's a few. What's the feeling in that?

[Van Lathan]

No, it's not. To me, I have no problem with MrBeast at all.

[Rachel Lindsay]

No, I know.

[Van Lathan]

Once again, I think some of the stuff is interesting, right? But it makes sense to give back. Like when you're saying, can 50 people walk across razor blades five hours? Like, let's look at it. Yeah. Cause a lot of people gonna look at MrBeast and they're gonna be like, he's found a way to cynically do squid games for people and make people compete for sums of money in a depressed economy. And the way to kind of launder that is to give money back. I'm not necessarily saying that, but I'm saying don't matter how much he give back. That nigga not comparing the fire in the rain type of situation.

[Rachel Lindsay]

What does his tweet Say again, What

[Van Lathan]

did they say his tweets said? I find it funny how different these two tweets are.

[Rachel Lindsay]

What did he write? Would a pot base write for him?

[Van Lathan]

They wrote Mr. B turns 28.

[Rachel Lindsay]

I'm sorry. They could have been like YouTuber, philanthropist, entrepreneur, you know, like they could have given him some more defining things. They really could have. I don't think he's over exaggerating about that. Like they. You could have defined who MrBeast is with some titles at the very least.

[Van Lathan]

One of the greatest vocals of all time compared to some creepy Internet guy. One of the greatest vocals of all time versus a clickbait youtuber.

[Rachel Lindsay]

That's why he's upset.

[Van Lathan]

Just maybe because no one likes you,

[Rachel Lindsay]

which is so not true. He has millions of followers.

[Van Lathan]

You are not that special. Seriously low key. Everyone thinks you are a douchebag. Not saying that you actually are, but to be honest, you used to be. All right. But then something happened. We don't know. We don't know if it was like what happened to Justin Bieber type thing or just ego really. They going in on Mr. Beast.

[Rachel Lindsay]

I didn't realize that it was this type. That's what he's saying. It opens up the door for it.

[Van Lathan]

Well, well, I mean, he got into it. He got into it himself. But greatest female singer versus a YouTube creep who preys on little kids. God.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Further, further research with MrBeast. There's. This year a class action lawsuit was filed by contest contestants from the show for a hostile work environment including failure to provide basic food, water and water, sexual harassment, and a lack of safety protocols during production for Amazon.

[Van Lathan]

Now, I bet you these people don't. I bet you these people don't even much know that, right? I bet these people don't even know that. I bet these people just like Mr. Beast. Ain't no motherfucking Adele. I'm telling you guys, I'm not hating on nobody because I'm not no Adele either. I'm not hating on anyone. But I'm saying connection, making people feel all of that stuff is just gonna go further.

[Rachel Lindsay]

I was trying to help it out then.

[Van Lathan]

Can your dick survive in ice water six hours?

[Rachel Lindsay]

Is that really what his content is?

[Van Lathan]

It's actually more than that. I'm just joking around. But I mean, some of the shit

[Rachel Lindsay]

I knew the last one when it got turned sexual, you know, I saw

[Van Lathan]

some higher learning fans outside of the.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Oh my gosh, yes. Shout out to the higher learning thought warriors that we met outside.

[Van Lathan]

Shout out to the thought warriors that came out these two lovely ladies and they went, we knew it would be sexual. I told the story of how I knew that my father jacked off.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Well, you kept saying, this is a story about my nephew. And we lost him pretty quickly in the story.

[Van Lathan]

Well, it was because the nephew stuff really was predicated on people laughing at me thinking that my nephew would be a school shooter. And people didn't laugh at that as much as I thought they would.

[Rachel Lindsay]

They laughed. It was kind of like. No, they laughed because we chuckled. I think you hear things different from the stage and where we were. But it was. It was like, do we laugh? Should we laugh? It was like that. One of those things, which is how your other joke, your new joke might make people feel. It's like, I don't know if I can laugh. Is that how you felt, Jade? Yeah, exactly. I think that's what it was. It wasn't that. It wasn't funny. It was like, is it too soon to laugh?

[Van Lathan]

No, no, look, this little nigga called me up and he goes, look, Unc, I got some bad things going on. And I was fucking scared. I was like, what the fuck is he about to do? He was just trying.

[Rachel Lindsay]

It was really like dark thoughts or something. Like, it was like something he said.

[Van Lathan]

I got dark. Really? It was that he was like. He felt weird. Cause he couldn't stop jacking off. Which makes a lot of sense. But like. But like he. And like, you know, just if he's listening, you know. Man, you know, you 14, pull that motherfucker. You 14, dawg. You know, my nephew doesn't have a jack off. Do you know what he has?

[Rachel Lindsay]

What?

[Van Lathan]

He has an access problem to, to the material. Let me tell you what the difference is with these new kids as it relates to jacking off, okay? I'll tell you what the difference is, Bernard. You know what I'm talking about.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Well, he's probably in a state where he can't access it like you used to be able to. There are.

[Van Lathan]

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Don't say it the way I used to be able to use it.

[Rachel Lindsay]

No, I was. Okay, first off, that is you projecting because I said you and it was an understood you. Oh, I swear to God it was an understood you.

[Van Lathan]

No, no, I didn't take it like that. And I'll tell you why. The reason why. Cause really, these kids that think they have a jack off problem, they don't have a jack off problem. Louis CK has a jack off problem. They don't have a Jack off problem. What they have is an access problem. See, right now, they can access 95 to 97% of the world's porn, right? Anytime they want the porn that's ever been created, they can type it in and they can go see all kinds of different porns, all type. When I wanted to watch porn, 1994, 1995, I had to be fucking James Bond. Do you understand what I'm talking about? I had to go into mom and Dad's room. I had to put the porn in the vcr. I had to note the scene that the porn was on, then rewind back to that same scene. After. I had to simultaneously listen for the dogs that were in the backyard because they would bark when mom would pull up. And I also had to listen for Dad's diesel engine that would come up the street.

[Rachel Lindsay]

You never got caught?

[Van Lathan]

Never one time. Like, one time.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Who caught you?

[Van Lathan]

Ebony.

[Rachel Lindsay]

I love Ebony.

[Van Lathan]

Ebony caught me. And when Ebony called me, she didn't even say anything crazy. She just went. Then she closed the door, and I just heard her laughing as she walked down the hall. I was like, damn. So, like, when my nephew doesn't have a jack off problem, they just got access. It's too much. It's too easy. It just wasn't that easy. Okay, Mr. Beast, before we leave, this is the last couple of Mr. Beast videos. I stranded 100 people in the wilderness for $250,000. Last to leave the grocery store wins $250,000. Like, it's like 50 streamers. Fight for a million dollars. That's Mr. Beast. And I show speed. I mean, you know, I'm the TMZ guy. I can't fucking get on Mr. Beast. But I'm saying, like, nigga, this ain't no 21. Okay, so they love Adele in a different way. All right, Rachel, your topic. What do you want to do? What should we do next? What should we do?

[Rachel Lindsay]

What should we do?

[Van Lathan]

Migos return. Quanza Jones. What do you want to do?

[Rachel Lindsay]

What do you think about the Migos reunion?

[Van Lathan]

I'm so fucking happy, darling.

[Rachel Lindsay]

It's about time.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

Quavo and Offset have ignited speculation that they're rejoining for new music. They posted photos of them together in the studio with construction emojis and a cryptic caption hinting that a major project might be underway. This would be the first one after Takeoff's death a few years ago.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Yeah, I mean, they had tension even before Takeoff passed away. And I would have thought that. And I remember even Cardi B calling out for them to stop. I would have thought that the death of a family member, friend, brother, creator, all of it would have brought them together, and it didn't. And then we saw Offset get shot recently as well. And I just, you know, put the music aside. These are. They're family and whatever it is differences they have, they should be able to come together. Now that they are coming together, they're better together, in my opinion, when it comes to music. So I'm excited that they've made up. I'm excited that they're coming back together and they're gonna give the people what they want. This is how it should be. This is how it should be.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah. So it's phenomenal. It's phenomenal for a couple of reasons. Number one, we've seen the Migos apart, and I like some of the stuff. I think what really happened here was just a case study. Huh? Oh, what you mean?

[Rachel Lindsay]

I said ego.

[Van Lathan]

Well, yeah, that's what happens. It's a case study in the way groups end up breaking up. So this, prior to the death of Takeoff, like, what you have is a group hits. And at first it seemed like everyone thought that Quavo was going to be the big deal that came from the Migos, right? Like, I remember Quavo at one time, I think he had tried to get his own manager or he was fucking with Scooter or something like that was happening. And that whole thing got weird. And then all of a sudden, Offset becomes the one from the Migos that is killing guest appearances. And everybody is talking about. I don't know how that went over. There was all kind. There was never a group that didn't make headlines. Like, sometimes it would be something that would happen or something happened, club or whatever, but it was just regular music shit that seemed to kind of force them apart. And then when. When Takeoff was killed, when he was murdered, there was a time when they got back together. They did a BET Awards, I think his performance. And you thought, are they gonna realize that it's deeper than this rap shit? How long is it gonna take them to realize it's deeper than this rap shit? That their family, that they came up together, that they was in that situation where they were climbing together and sharing clothes, doing all of that stuff, all this shit that niggas do when they don't have it? I thought it was just a matter of time until they realized that. That both musically and energetically, they're better off as family men.

[Rachel Lindsay]

So what you're saying is you always knew they Were gonna come back together.

[Van Lathan]

Yep. They family. And by the way, not only people have.

[Rachel Lindsay]

That ain't always the case.

[Van Lathan]

Not only do they always, like, most of the time with these groups, most of the time with these groups that have these big breakups, most of the time there's some sort of reconciliation. When you think about these groups, there are some where there was never a reconciliation, but most of the time with these groups, you see them back together at some point when things slide.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Do you think that's motivated by things that aren't rooted in, like family and brotherhood?

[Van Lathan]

Well, I think.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Cause like, when you say that, and I'm not just subjecting this to. To Migos, but when you're like. Most of the time they come back together. When I think of that, I think, well, they need each other. It's more of a financial thing.

[Van Lathan]

Well, yeah, sometimes. But like, then look at a situation like New Edition.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Well, that's exactly what I was thinking of.

[Van Lathan]

Well, New Edition didn't need each other. Bobby Brown goes on and becomes like a gigantic star. And then New Edition puts Johnny Gill in the group and they got the indie heartbreak. My favorite joint.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Yeah, we're still in the 80s. I'm talking about now them coming back together.

[Van Lathan]

But now they. Oh, right. So now it's like they can do New Edition with Bobby and they do an issue without Bobby.

[Rachel Lindsay]

And they did come back all together in the 90s.

[Van Lathan]

They did home Again with.

[Rachel Lindsay]

With Bobby and Johnny.

[Van Lathan]

Right, with Bobby, Bobby and Johnny. All of them come back together. My point with that is, like, even before. My point with that is that you're going to see some sort of reconciliation from these groups. Particularly when these groups were together when they were young and they had a lot of success and all of that stuff like that. A lot of them come back together now, sometimes people die or whatever. Whatever. It doesn't happen. But with them, there was a closeness that also, even the way the Migos made music, like, to me, indicated this closeness. Cause they ad libbing, everybody going in. It was like they were one organism as a group.

[Rachel Lindsay]

I agree. It's like they finished each other's sentences. Sentences with the rap. Like, I was almost like, is that on the paper or y' all just, like, vibing?

[Van Lathan]

So, like, when they. When they weren't together anymore, it was kind of like. It was really fun.

[Rachel Lindsay]

I'm happy to see it. I'm really happy they're coming together.

[Van Lathan]

Have we been staying away from politics on the pod?

[Rachel Lindsay]

No, I think we've. I mean, what do you. What do you want to talk about there's things happening? I mean. No, we just talked about redistricting. We did, and it's still going on.

[Van Lathan]

We had Karen Bass on the podcast. We did have Karen Bass on the podcast.

[Rachel Lindsay]

You itching for some politics?

[Van Lathan]

You see what I'm saying? Did you watch the mayoral debate?

[Rachel Lindsay]

Did anybody watch it? Oh, man, I didn't know about it. So I woke up this morning and I watched it. You watched it?

[Van Lathan]

I watched it. What'd you think?

[Rachel Lindsay]

I think that if Spencer Pratt was trying to differentiate himself from Karen Bass, he did a terrible job at it. He agreed with Karen Bass on a lot of stuff. And it was more so a back and forth between him and the councilwoman. He flat out complimented Karen Bass. I mean, when it comes to the fires, obviously, we know where he stands with that. But he even was like, I don't wanna run against her. She's got all these unions supporting her. I actually agree with her. You know, she talked about wanting more police. So does he. She talked about wanting to move them off the streets. So does. So does he. He more so was at odds with the councilwoman than he was with her. And I thought, if that is who you end up going against, you did a really bad job of trying to show how anti. If she's so bad for la, why do y' all agree on so much?

[Van Lathan]

Karen Bass?

[Rachel Lindsay]

Why do. Why do Spencer Pratt and Karen Bass agree on so much if she is so bad? According to Spencer Pratt? And then obviously this debate revealed and the moderators kept asking him, okay, we know you're passionate about being in this race. We know you're passionate about what happened to you and to your community, but how would you fix it? What policy? Never had an answer, right? Never.

[Van Lathan]

What I will say about this debate and the reaction to the debate is that, like, yo, Spencer Pratt has a. Is it the little cricket? Spencer Pratt has an entire social media apparatus.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Oh, yeah.

[Van Lathan]

That is way more robust than I thought that it was. Because, like, if you didn't watch the debate and you just watched the coverage on the debate, from figures on the right, you would think that Spencer Pratt got up there and smoked everyone.

[Rachel Lindsay]

That's why I had to watch.

[Van Lathan]

He had good moments. He had moments where he looked authentic, where he looked like he was legitimately the screaming voice of Los Angeles at two politicians. But if you watch the entire debate, there is no fucking way that you will come away going. That guy's to. Going. Qualified to be the mayor. And that's just like a reality. And look, once again, I am down to have all the mayoral.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Would love to.

[Van Lathan]

Would love to have Spencer on. Would love to have Nithya Raman on. Would love to have Spencer Pratt on. We've had Karen Bass on, so would love to put these questions to them. I actually reached out to Nathan Ramen's people, and I think we got something brewing, something cooking. But if you look at what's good, she has a record that she could run on in terms of, like, things that she's been able to get done for her district. For her district.

[Rachel Lindsay]

She didn't do a good job in talking and defending some of her actions as a city councilwoman in regards to the city as a whole.

[Van Lathan]

Okay, so who did you think did the best in the.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Karen Bass.

[Van Lathan]

You thought Karen Bass carried the day, like, by far.

[Rachel Lindsay]

I mean, Spencer Brad even goes. I don't wanna run against her. Not just the unions. He was like, she's been the mayor for four years. I mean, I'm telling you, he made Karen Bass look good. I'm sorry. Well, I think except for the fires, which she was able to refute. And I just think that I really was shocked. I only watched because of exactly what you said. I get on Threads, and everyone's talking about Spencer Pratt and how well he did and how he cooked everybody and all of this. And then I watch it, and I'm like, oh, people didn't watch. They just watched these moments where he was funny or they watched these moments. I mean, he literally said, I mean, I don't have to know how to balance a budget. I'll hire people smarter than me to do that.

[Van Lathan]

A lot of people gonna go for that type of shit, though.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Well, I mean, did you have somebody balancing your personal budget for the millions of dollars that you lost? That don't mean shit to me.

[Van Lathan]

Spencer Pratt, come on.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Higher learning, that don't mean anything to me. You gonna go back to them crystals to tell you how to do it? That doesn't mean anything to me.

[Van Lathan]

Damn. I'll tell you something right now. This is what I'll say. It's very important that you guys watch the shit. Yeah. Not just the debates. I'm not talking about that. Like, I'll tell you something else. Tucker Carlson. Okay, So I watch a lot of Tucker, right? I watch a lot of Tucker. And let me tell you what I realized. The clip farming, or prop clipping, as Tim Poole says, that goes on with Tucker is like, it's next level. Cause I watch the Tucker Carlson stuff, right?

[Rachel Lindsay]

I like clip farming.

[Van Lathan]

Clip form.

[Rachel Lindsay]

I like that term.

[Van Lathan]

So it's next level. Tell you what I mean. So if, let's say, if Tucker is doing an interview and the interview is with Ted Cruz or Mike Huckabee or whatever, he's able to sit down with one of these people and shred them on these issues where they are clearly, clearly not just intellectually, but energetically compromised. They are compromised on these issues. They are beholden to entities, political thoughts, movements or whatever. And so he's able to lob stuff out there that is easy to make these guys look like fools. Like, you ask Ted Cruz how many people are in Iran. He's an Iran hawk. He doesn't know how many people he wants to go in and destabilize or destroy a civilization in the guise of freeing them or ending a nuclear program. He doesn't know anything about what he's going to do. Right. Tucker is talented at that. But then there are other interviews like he had his brother on. His brother is named Buckley. Tucker and Buckley.

[Rachel Lindsay]

It's very white.

[Van Lathan]

Tucker and Buckley. His brother's name is Buckley. The conversation was so grotesquely racist at times. The conversation was so disgustingly racist, homophobic, anti American in ways. They spent a whole fucking portion of the conversation talking about how much they loved Big Tobacco, how much they want people to smoke and smoke. Like you guys, A lot of you guys never live during the time where you have to go places and people were smoking everywhere. People smoke everywhere. You got a fucking headache, the whole deal. So you guys don't have to live in a world where it was smoke everywhere. You go in a hospital, they smoke. You go on a plane, they're smoking, there's smoking everywhere. Your world is better because Big Tobacco was brought to his knees. Facts. And these two guys are talking about ripping the filter out of shit and smoking it like it's 65. On top of that, they're talking about just all of the buzzwords, anti white racism, all of that stuff. You watch the stuff that was clipped from that interview, though, the stuff that was clipped from that interview were salient points made against Donald Trump or salient points made against the government of Israel. And they just glossed over all of the other putrid ideas that Tucker Carlson is still beholden to as he tries to launder them.

[Rachel Lindsay]

But we talked about this. I told you, that's why I don't trust these people.

[Van Lathan]

No, no, no, no. But the difference is, like, for me, I do think, though, that on certain issues they have legitimately moved. And it doesn't matter if they've moved or not. What matters is like now I truly believe that Tucker Carlson and the rest of these people now have moved away from Donald Trump, but because they have to move away from Donald Trump.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Sure. But there's still all those grotesque things that you saw, which is what I'm like. So it doesn't mean that much because when it comes to an election, they're still gonna vote for things that further that.

[Van Lathan]

Well, the only thing that it does mean to me, and this is the reason why I encourage people to watch the entire thing, is because the one thing that I can't really do on the podcast that I wish that I could do more of because I'm not good enough, is I'm encouraging people to be sophisticated on this stuff.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Sure.

[Van Lathan]

And I do not think that there is any need or want for people to be that. I think that people want to have easy answers and safe answers to really complex and weighty problems. Because if you're going to be sophisticated on it, then some of this clipping is the way that you do it. You would take prominent figures on the right and use certain things that they say to undergird your arguments. And I'll be honest, that's what they do to us.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Sure.

[Van Lathan]

What they do to us is they listen to the whole thing. Don't matter how many you could say, sure, sure, sure, vote for Kamala Harris, vote for Kamala Harris, vote for Kamala Harris, vote for whomever else. And they listen to all of the stuff that you talk about. But if there is one specific point of agreement, they take that point of agreement and they use it to speak to an average person and say, look,

[Rachel Lindsay]

yeah, we live in a click bait

[Van Lathan]

society, but I'm saying for people, watch the whole thing.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Can I ask you this as a connoisseur of Tucker Carlson? What does he say about or has he addressed the redistricting and the Supreme Court ruling? And you know, when it comes to a Supreme Court, especially when they're supposed to be institutionalists, they have made it an open playing field to just throw out basically a democratic republic and just do whatever the fuck they want. When it comes to drawing up these, to these redistricting maps, has he addressed that and where does he stand? Because obviously we know it hurts one group of people. So I'm just curious as to what he said about that.

[Van Lathan]

So this is what I. So I haven't listened to him since that stuff has happened. Right.

[Rachel Lindsay]

The brother interview, the whole book, the

[Van Lathan]

brother interview was a long time ago. Okay, so there's been a lot of Tucker stuff that's happening, so I haven't listened to him since then. But I'll say this, though. He is blissfully nonspecific, and he would. He gets granular on things that he believes to be the root of the problem. So he thinks that the root of Trump's bad policy right now is his relationship to Israel. So almost every single show comes back to that. Every single show comes back to the fact that America first can't possibly exist if Donald Trump is so closely threaded with the Israeli government and Benjamin Netanyahu. So every problem that exists in America is downstream of that. Every single problem, meaning that, like, if we're talking about homelessness, if we're talking about drugs, if we're talking about crime, all of those problems come because we are not focused on our country, and we're not focused on our country because we're beholden to another country. So when he talks about the things like what you're talking about right now, the way he would discuss them is he would say. He'd go, I don't look at any group and discriminate on any group based on their blood, because that's not what the Christian Bible says to do. I don't use blood trauma against people. That's not a Christian thing. And anyone that would do that is not Christian.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Well, he'd probably say that anything that has race as determining a district or determining the makeup of something should not be allowed. And then he would probably agree with it.

[Van Lathan]

Well, he would say that, except he is very specific about one type of racism, which is anti white racism, which he believes, because part of that group of people's. Part of their method of thinking is that they are. They believe in, you know, white male orthodoxy. So they think that anything that threatens that is destabilizing to the country because white guys have to fly to planes and, you know, make the food and do all of that. So all that's important. But, like, what I would say, though, is, like, where you can gain wins, I accept victory. That's the fucked up part about me. The fucked up part about me is that, like, if we're playing a basketball game, like, my goal is to win

[Rachel Lindsay]

the game, of course.

[Van Lathan]

So that means that if we're playing, two things might happen. Last thing I'll say on this, if we're playing a basketball game and you can't miss, eventually, I. No, see the opposite. If we're playing a game, a basketball game, and my goal is for me to Score, then I'm gonna make sure that I get in the way of you doing what you're doing. But if the goal is to win the game and you can't miss, then I'm gonna make sure you get the ball. But even more than that, if we're playing and I realize you're gonna shoot every time you touch the ball, then my goal then is to get you easier shots.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Oh, we're on the same team.

[Van Lathan]

We're on the same team. If we're playing and this nigga gonna shoot every time. There's two types of players. One type of player goes, man, fuck this nigga. They get the ball out of the basket, they run down, and they chuck it up every time. And now what you have is two people on the court, and both of them are doing their own thing. My goal is always to stay on the court. So if you gonna shoot it every time, then I'm just gonna get you easier shots. That's the way I look at everything. The way I look at everything is how do I win? And even if in somebody's rhetoric, it's not a total win, if I can use something that they're saying to add to what it is that I'm doing, then I'm going to be like, we have to take that win.

[Rachel Lindsay]

I agree with you. And you take that single thing and you use it to your advantage, not as that single thing. And you don't do this. But I'm just saying definitely defines or redefines who this person is. Now I'm just gonna use this piece of you. I still know who you are.

[Van Lathan]

Right?

[Rachel Lindsay]

Okay.

[Van Lathan]

Well, especially when they. They're. They, you know, they say it so much, but, you know, watch the way. Here's the deal. Not everybody has to do that. Like we were talking about the Ilian Omar thing. Not everybody has to do that. You. I'm not asking everyone else to do that. I'm asking you to be sophisticated in your critique. But if you go, hey, fuck you guys. But some of these people are gonna have to go out and whip votes in places where they wouldn't necessarily get those votes. And we have to give them space to do that. So, Tucker, come on. Come on the show. Rachel will talk to you. Would you?

[Rachel Lindsay]

Oh, I would have Tucker on.

[Van Lathan]

You would? Who wouldn't you have on Candace, Only Candace.

[Rachel Lindsay]

I have to think about some other people.

[Van Lathan]

Give us a list of people. Give us a list of racial.

[Rachel Lindsay]

I don't know if I would do. It's gonna sound like only women, but I. Oh, I wouldn't have Nick Fuentes on.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, we're not gonna put any Nazis on.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Well, I'm just name. Because I was about to say Megan Kelly and I didn't want to just say women, so I was Nick Fuentes. I wouldn't, you know, I wouldn't have on, you know, those. What do I call them? I don't remember what the original name is, so I'm just gonna say fit and that. That. That black. Yeah. I don't even. Do they even have that podcast anymore? The.

[Van Lathan]

The Myron Gaines.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Myron. Cuz I saw he went on a rant the other day and it's like I wouldn't even talk about this. That kind of stuff on the podcast.

[Van Lathan]

Like I wouldn't even put on what ran.

[Rachel Lindsay]

It's about black women again. Oh, now here I am having to talk about it. He talks about how they're loud, they're ugly, they wear their too much weave lashes. He kept calling them Shaniqua. It was like a whole thing. I would never have him on the podcast.

[Van Lathan]

Right. What's the point?

[Rachel Lindsay]

Yeah. So there's a list.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah. There's no point in that.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Yeah. And that's really my thing. If I don't feel like there's a point or I feel like you're just gonna lie and when you say stuff, then what's the point of having that person on the podcast?

[Van Lathan]

I mean, Ryan Gaines and Chet the builder are the same person.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Agreed.

[Van Lathan]

Same person. Same guy.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Agreed.

[Van Lathan]

Same guy doing the same thing.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Agreed.

[Van Lathan]

Same guy doing the same things. The exact same shit. Trying to like this episode is brought to you by Whole Foods Market. Spring is here, so celebrate it with fresh, juicy seasonal produce and some very tasty limited time flavors. New Whole Foods Market. Peach apricot rose Italian soda. Perfect for a picnic or brunch. As is their trending mango yuzu Chantilly cake. But if you're on the go, new 365 Strawberry Pretzels make a great sweet snack. That sounds delicious. Get savings with yellow sale signs storewide and everyday low prices on 365 brand items. Enjoy the fresh flavors of spring. Save at Whole Foods Market. Going back to that, it like it's the same guy doing the same shit. Same, same thing. Not there's no difference. Let's talk about Dana White. He was on the Katie Miller podcast recently and spoke specifically about masculinity and men's mental health. I hate this whole men's mental health that they talk about. Unfortunately, when you're a man, you are the provider. You are the one that takes care of your family. You are the example for your kids when they grow up, and your sons and your daughters. And unfortunately, you can't be that guy. That's. I see these guys posting on social media, oh, I had a bad day, and I'm so sad. And all this other crazy shit.

[Rachel Lindsay]

So unattractive.

[Van Lathan]

Oh, it's just. It's unattractive to other males, let alone women. I can't even imagine. Yeah, I'm. I'm. I'm really against all that shit.

[Rachel Lindsay]

As a man, how does that make you feel?

[Van Lathan]

As a man, how does it make me feel?

[Rachel Lindsay]

Yeah, I mean, you put you. Yeah, this. This spoke to you.

[Van Lathan]

It did speak to me. So Dana White is a fucking idiot. Yeah. And, you know, it's difficult to call somebody that is so successful a fucking idiot, but he is. He is a fucking idiot. You know, men have a choice. They have a choice whether or not they are going to kill themselves or kill their pride. And the reality is that the rate in which men unalive themselves, the rates that they harm people that are close to them, the rate that they take things out, unresolved mental issues on the community at large is staggering. It's staggering at a time where we are seeing men hurt their wives, kill their wives, kill their children, run into places and kill everybody. Kill everybody because they can't get a date. Kill everybody because they feel like no one's listening, no one's hearing them. To say that caring about your mental health or prioritizing your mental health or discussing your mental health is weak or unattractive or something that you shouldn't do is. It's evil talk. We have so much evidence right now that that is the last thing that we should be saying or listening to. Now, look, Dana White is somebody who, over the course of his career, has made an incredible living off other people's strife. Not that I haven't. Not that I haven't. But he's someone who's made a lot of money on the fact that sometimes men are angry and they need to take it out on someone. You know, MMA is a sport. It's a skill. It's a discipline. It takes a lot of thought and precision and practice and all of that. I'm not saying that everybody in the UFC is crazy, but I am saying that we live in a society where watching each other brutalize, watching people brutalize each other, is something that we get off on. So that kind of is what it is. I box. I'm A boxer. I get it. But for him to be at this point and say those things, I would just tell men that not only is Dana White an idiot and a liar, but he's obsolete. That type of thinking is obsolete. I would say to men that I want you to be happy and I want you to thrive, and I want you to thrive and be happy with nothing to hide. I want your vulnerability and your struggle to be something that you can publicly revel in overcoming. I want your son to be able to look at you and say, my daddy went through that, and he's better. My daddy can talk to me. My daddy made a better me. The pastor at my church made a better me. The teacher made a better me. My coach made a better me. I know how to be who I am in a better, realer way, because that man was better and realer to himself, and he didn't have to hide. And there's nothing pussy about that. There's nothing unattractive about that. There's nothing whack about that. Dana White should be ashamed of himself. And maybe if he was better regulated, he wouldn't have slapped the shit out of his wife.

[Rachel Lindsay]

And that's exactly what I was about to say. Dana White is a dangerous man. Not just because he slapped the shit publicly out of his wife, publicly, and moved on as if it was nothing, but also because of this rhetoric. You used the word obsolete. He feels that young men are disconnected from traditional ideas of purpose and identity, the key word being traditional. It's 2026 in this entire clip, at least that we listen to. Women are nowhere in the picture. He talks about how men are supposed to be looked at by their children, children by others in society, how they're supposed to provide, as if women are not allowed and can and are not capable of doing these things. That's the society he wants to live in. And maybe he does in his bubble where he literally puts his hands on his wife. But the reason that men feel so disconnected is because men feel more than just the monolith that he wants to make men be. Men feel more than what they were traditionally, and they always have, but what they were traditionally told they had to be and how they had to exist in this society. And it's the fact that there is this conflict of they're not allowed or they're told that they can't express themselves in that way that has them feeling so disconnected. And maybe if the Dana Whites of the world would shut up and we would welcome a place where you can be vulnerable and that masculinity isn't defined in one way. Just like if femininity isn't just defined in one way, then we could all be a better society where we know how to function better, our mental health is better, and we understand each other better. He is a dangerous man.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, well, I don't even know how to really. Strength. You have to be strong enough to confront your demons. You have to be strong enough and brave enough to confront your demons.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Like, it's, you know, strength is not just physical.

[Van Lathan]

Well, no, I'm talking about, like, I don't even know. It's funny. It's really funny to me that we would still be having this conversation after everything we've seen, after everything that we know, after everything that we've gone through. It's just funny to me. We're always going to be here. There's not a way out. But you know what, though? I see it everywhere, though. I'll be real with you. When we have conversations about the male loneliness epidemic, I continuously come on here and go, hey, lot of lonely guys walking around not knowing what they're supposed to do. I don't think it's okay to kick them in their ass and go, men should be lonely. I think we should probably talk about that, right? Because when they snapped, they hurt everybody. No, there's no quarter anywhere. I'm not gonna act like I've. In this conversation that I've been trying to talk about, it's just the Dana whites that haven't given us any quarter. There's been no quarter given anywhere. There's been no quarter given to anybody. No one says, you're so terrible. Maybe you should go through stuff. I get it that y' all feel that way. I understand that that's a thing. But what I'm saying is, when you're looking around, there's so many different groups of people going, suck the fuck up. I'm like, fuck it. And now, like, this is the owner of the UFC saying, suck it the fuck up. This benchmark for masculinity, guys go, I need to suck it the fuck up. Then there are other people that are going, I don't know how I talk about this and how I discuss this without centering myself. Is there any way that we can have a conversation about this and really discuss it and get to the middle of it? And there's not. There's not. Like, men have created their dungeon, and they created it. They created it. They created the dungeon. Patriarchy is a dungeon dungeon that you

[Rachel Lindsay]

go into patriarchy this is part of the consequence of patriarchy. And it's not that it's okay. And we should talk about it. And again, I don't need to talk about something we've already talked about, about like, giving the space and allowing people to be vulnerable. You shouldn't, in this particular situation, be like, shut the fuck up. It should be like, why do you feel this way? How do you feel like you should. You should leave space for that. But in the same way as we're talking about Tucker Carlson and there is a need to protect your whiteness because you feel that the world is becoming. Becoming majority minority and you have a fear of the white replacement theory. And we're seeing you use the Supreme Court and Congress to create policy and legislation and laws to protect your whiteness and to keep that in place because of the fear of losing it. That's the same message that Dana White is giving and trying to protect what he feels like a certain man should be, how a man should be in society. And he is trying to protect that notion. And he is putting out very harmful, dangerous rhetoric to keep that going.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, look, I give all the credit in the world to the people who care about our boys and. Cause it's just somebody's gotta do it.

[Rachel Lindsay]

And there are people that care.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, there are.

[Rachel Lindsay]

There are people.

[Van Lathan]

And I'm not gonna care anymore. Who doesn't care.

[Rachel Lindsay]

There you go.

[Van Lathan]

There you go. I'm not gonna care anymore. Who doesn't care. Just leave me alone when y' all should be popping up. I don't want it. I'm just. I'm just joking. I'm playing. TMZ just dropped footage of Diana Rossini and Mike Vrabel boarding a boat together in 2021. She was pregnant.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Yes, I've seen. I've seen the headline.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah. Your thoughts?

[Rachel Lindsay]

I have none.

[Van Lathan]

It seems like. Doesn't it seem like.

[Rachel Lindsay]

I'm not doing the speculation here. It just don't look good. It don't look good.

[Van Lathan]

What are we speculating about?

[Rachel Lindsay]

It does not look good. You're not going to give me the. There. I just.

[Van Lathan]

What are we speculating about?

[Rachel Lindsay]

I think we need to. Those people. And they have. They are both married, they have spouses. They need to figure that out away from the headlines. That's.

[Van Lathan]

Don't.

[Rachel Lindsay]

They don't look good.

[Van Lathan]

But at this point, I mean, there.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Yes, you can take context clues and put some things together. It just doesn't look good. Don't say it. Why you got to make.

[Van Lathan]

What are your thoughts? Cuz. Cuz that's your girl, Ray.

[Rachel Lindsay]

I know her, but I just. I'm just like.

[Van Lathan]

I'm just joking. Jay, what do you think about this?

[Rachel Lindsay]

It doesn't look good.

[Van Lathan]

It's giving.

[Rachel Lindsay]

I mean, one headline. Okay.

[Van Lathan]

It's picture. It's. Okay. Two.

[Rachel Lindsay]

The implication is that. The implication is that what Van wants us to say and what he is speculating and what a lot of people are is who is the father of the child.

[Van Lathan]

Who said that? I never. That is not true.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Okay, well then what did you want? What did you want?

[Van Lathan]

I don't know anything about that baby's father or anything like that. I swear to God. That's not. What I'm thinking, is that this is a. This seems to have been a long term, long time entanglement relationship.

[Rachel Lindsay]

We knew that two weeks ago when we saw them kissing in a bar. So why are you telling me? What does this video show when she's pregnant? Two months. Like it's two months before she's about to give birth. That we already knew. This is 2021.

[Van Lathan]

This is in 2021.

[Rachel Lindsay]

We already knew that she. There was a kissing video before then.

[Van Lathan]

But I think though, that people are getting to an understanding of the depth we need to leave them alone of this relationship. The understanding of the depth of the relationship. I'll say this, like, understanding, like, what's the difference in this? We covered the shit out of August, Alsina and Jada and Will. Like, what's the difference? What's the difference here? Like what? Like, like what's the difference? Like, why. Why this?

[Rachel Lindsay]

The difference is that they admitted it.

[Van Lathan]

Okay?

[Rachel Lindsay]

They. I mean, Jada was like, we had an entanglement.

[Van Lathan]

They admitted it after. They were. They admitted it after all he came

[Rachel Lindsay]

out and said it.

[Van Lathan]

Well, they were. They admitted it after the. Basically the.

[Rachel Lindsay]

The trap story was these people got caught. Somebody hired a private investigator to follow these people, and they denied it. Neither one of them have flat out said, hey, we've been having an affair for this amount of time. August Alsina came out and was like, listen, I've been having an affair with Jada Pinkett.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, I think that there's.

[Rachel Lindsay]

And then she came out. So it was a different approach.

[Van Lathan]

I think that there's no difference because I think that as a matter of fact, in a lot of ways in that situation, there were these like gigantic blow ups, right? There was the Will thing. And then eventually. And what you're talking about has kind of happened. They've kind of. At least from Rabel's Perspective. He's kind of came out and said, I've made decisions and I've done things that like, I'm not proud of, that are bad in my family. He's essentially admitted it. Now. What is continuing to happen is every single person that has video footage of them together knows that they have something that's valuable to them.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Why that's happening, because they are not coming out outright with it. With August, like Jada sat down, they talked about the timeline, how it happened. There was no need for speculation or assumption because they were telling you what, what was going down with this. It's like, well, I need to take time to be with my family. I've made some mistakes. Okay, well, what, what's the mistake? Was it, was it a one time thing? Was it a. Was it multiple times? Did it go on for years? Did it like they, we. People are trying to fill in the gaps, which is why I think there's. So you're keeping. You're continuing to see videos and stories and like, what, you just dropped this video of them on a boat? Like, I just think they are married, they have families. They need to figure that stuff out. So what I clearly were having an affair.

[Van Lathan]

What I would say is, you know, you're almost answering my question and saying the difference in the August, really, this is what I believe the reason why we covered the August, Alsi and the Will thing and all of that stuff wasn't because everybody was. Because it was some mess involved people that we thought were married and she was with a R B singer who was living up there with the family and they was having sex and all of that, people go, whoa. That's a lifestyle that we're not familiar with. This is Will and Jada, two of the most famous people in the world. And people want to know what the fuck is going on. You add that plus the shit that happens at the Oscars, plus all of this other stuff, that's going to be a celebrity story that's going to have some legs with this situation. Right now you have two people that were seen together, like, is it an affair? Is it not affair? And it turns out that this is not an affair. Diana Rossini and Mike Vrabel did not have an affair. This is not an affair. They are in love. These two people, for whatever reason are in love and have been in love for a long time. I wasn't thinking anything about the paternity of this child. What I am thinking about this is think about the amount of affinity and love you have to have for somebody on both sides of this right now. Men cheat when their wives are pregnant all the time. They cheat when their wives are pregnant all the time. I'm not making a specific indictment of Diana Rossini here because of that, but she is pregnant here. If, in fact, this is something romantic, which it probably is. She is pregnant here, and he is there. Men cheating on their wives when they are pregnant is one thing. Men going to be with a woman that is pregnant for another guy. I don't know that I've ever known someone who has done that. And I know the dregs of humanity. I know the worst of the worst, the niggas that have done. I don't know that I've known or been in a conversation with one of my homeboys to where he's been like, yeah, man, she's six months pregnant. I'm still going over there, though. Normally you let that little motherfucker cook, and then when it pops out, maybe you keep. You get back on the train. But this is a situation to where he must see her. He has to see her. I wasn't actually thinking of the paternity.

[Rachel Lindsay]

That's why people are speculating that it's his baby, because that. And the baby's name is Michael. And that's why people are now speculating that. And that's why I'm like, we gotta let them. We gotta let them do their own thing. That's a lot.

[Van Lathan]

That's a. That's. That is a lot. But, you know, I will say this, though.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Very common name, though.

[Van Lathan]

Man, oh, man, oh, man, oh, man, oh, man, oh, man, oh, man, oh, man, oh, man. Coach Vrabel in the cut.

[Rachel Lindsay]

TMZ says that the son was named after her brother, not Mike.

[Van Lathan]

I'm not. I'm not. I don't think that there's any paternity.

[Rachel Lindsay]

He had two children together.

[Van Lathan]

Issues. My question is this. If you are the dad. If you are the dad. If you are the dad. Do you now want a paternity test?

[Rachel Lindsay]

I would.

[Van Lathan]

You would?

[Rachel Lindsay]

Yeah. Let me take that back. I don't have children, so I don't know what I would. The reason I immediately said I would is because my curiosity would want to know. But if I have established. So these kids are almost five and almost four, well, you'll be able to

[Van Lathan]

see it by this point.

[Rachel Lindsay]

No, no, no, no. But my. I guess my point is, is once I have been their father in their life and I've raised them, it would be what the possibility of knowing that they're Not. Could be devastating. So I don't know. I'm not a parent, so I don't know. But as a non parent, I would. Yes, that's my initial, but I can't imagine what somebody who's a parent might have to question whether or not a child is theirs or not.

[Van Lathan]

What do you do next? If you are Diana Rossini and Mike Vrabel.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Well, together. Nothing. I mean, Mike's trying to save. Mike's focused on the season. He's trying to save his job. I don't think it's in jeopardy.

[Van Lathan]

Mike's trying to save his marriage.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Well, that, too.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Well, that too. I mean, yes, obviously, that too. His marriage, his job, all of that. And balancing the two. Right. How do I focus on the team but also show my wife that I'm focused on her? Because obviously all trust is broken. And I think the same thing goes with Diana. I mean, she lost her job in all of this, but, you know, you have two children, you have a husband, and it's about repairing the family unit, if that's what you guys want to do.

[Van Lathan]

Hmm.

[Rachel Lindsay]

It's also like, that's why I'm like, okay, we knew once the affair happened, we talked about it, we reported it. Like, now it's like, ugh.

[Van Lathan]

Now it's like, what?

[Rachel Lindsay]

It's like, it's too gossipy for me, the speculation around, like, the paternity and all that, that people are doing all that. But I'm saying that's why. I thought you said that, because that's what. That is, what people are talking about.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, I don't have any.

[Rachel Lindsay]

And to your point, when you're like, I've never seen. Seen this before, and it's like, well, that's why people are saying that.

[Van Lathan]

No, I've never seen that before. And I'm just being honest. I'm sure some niggas gonna be like, hey, man, my man went out. I've never seen that before.

[Rachel Lindsay]

I haven't either.

[Van Lathan]

And all of that, like, if this is in fact. Cause you would think that, like, in this situation, they gonna go on the boat and they chilling if there's a sit. You know. Bernard, we being serious, bruh. Hold on. Like, hold on for a second. Hold on for a second. We being serious, bruh. Jay, don't laugh. You would think that if this is a romantic. Tristan, at some point there's gonna be some romance, you know, and

[Rachel Lindsay]

that's a lot. This is a long time. What, five, six years?

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, but I mean, that happens.

[Rachel Lindsay]

No, I'm not saying it doesn't. It's just a long time.

[Van Lathan]

It is, but this is. That's interesting. You know what I'm saying?

[Rachel Lindsay]

Let's move on. Don't you have a little something for the people?

[Van Lathan]

I got a list for the people.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Okay.

[Van Lathan]

Whatever happens to her should happens to happen to him. That's all I'm saying. Okay. I don't think nobody should lose their job over no shit like this. But if somebody lose their job, everybody gotta lose their job.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Well, and it's like nobody's having the conversation of whether or not this speaks to men getting hired. And like, it's just men's getting hired with what? Well, with like what we were talking about with Elle. The conversation then becomes, does this make it harder for women? We don't have those conversations with Mike Vrabel or men in these type of situations. But keep going. Go ahead, get to your list.

[Van Lathan]

We've talked about dick riding before, but there's certain cults of dick riding that are overtaking everything. These are the top five dick riding colts in the world right now. Colts, Colts, Top 5 Colts, Top 5 Cult of Dick riders that exist now. Some people just missed the list. This is a Van Lay 10, but I'm not gonna go through all 10. I'm gonna do a top five and tell you who just missed the cut. Rap hives. Y' all starting to become all dick riders. Don't matter. The hive, okay. All of the hives are becoming dick riders. All of them. All of them. Don't matter if I like the rapper. If I love the rapper. All of these hives is going too far. It's going too far. It's ruining hip hop. Looks, maxers. The people that create the clavicle. People.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Yeah, all of that.

[Van Lathan]

People going too crazy.

[Rachel Lindsay]

We haven't talked about that yet.

[Van Lathan]

Star wars fans.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Oh, yep. Why are they. Why? What's happening? Is there a new movie? Is there something coming out? Is there like, where does this come from?

[Van Lathan]

All of these hives that I'm talking about are so dick riding that they threaten to ruin the very thing that they are dick riding.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Oh, no, I'm afraid with some of

[Van Lathan]

Star wars hives out of here. Okay, last one. Centrist Democrats didn't quite make the top five, but they in there.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Oh, these are honorable mentions.

[Van Lathan]

These are honorable mentions.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Oh, okay. Okay.

[Van Lathan]

These are honorable mentions. Centrist Democrats getting to that point with them. Getting to that point with them. To me, where I'm starting to have conversations with people and I'm like talking to them, I'm like, are you listening to what I'm saying? Like, you can't sell me on Hakeem Jeffries right now. It's very tough, right? It's tough to do the Chuck Schumer shit right now. Like, we can't. We can't we even talk about it? I will say about the centrist Democrats is they're like the. They're like the Hare Krishnas. Like, they're a cult. But you're like, oh, they don't bother me. They're kind of. You know, I like them. You know, they're not a. But it's starting now.

[Rachel Lindsay]

It's becoming a problem. Starting to.

[Van Lathan]

Well, it's. This is how stupid I was. I didn't realize that there was this much cult, like, thought that existed in the center of the Democratic Party. Because the reality is that these are the people that are for voting rights. These are the people that are for certain things. But as things get a little bit more complicated, I see them holding on a lot harder to a lot of ideas that just don't work anymore. And I'm wondering if any of this stuff was about, like, legitimate, actual thought and making people's lives better, or if it was about holding on to power.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Well, it is about holding on to power, and it's about keeping the establishment so they can keep their power in it and not either it break down or let people in it that are going to change it. So the establishment, yeah, it's the cult, the Democratic centrist, but they did not

[Van Lathan]

make the top five.

[Rachel Lindsay]

All right, well, let's get to it.

[Van Lathan]

Let's get to it. Number five, Run Club people. Everybody that's in a Run Club.

[Rachel Lindsay]

You sound like a hater.

[Van Lathan]

Okay, everything in your life. Can I get through my list, please? Everything in your life cannot be about one thing. Can't eat to run, sleep to run, music to run. To run. You need balance. Run Club People is going too much. I see it everywhere. Like, everybody, everything is about run, run, run, run, run, run, run. I've run a lot of stuff. A lot of times you just run all around. Run. Miles and miles and miles and miles and miles. I got a Nike Run Club app, but the Run Club is going too hard. It's nothing to do with hating. Okay, this is my list. It's my observation. Run Club going too far. They just edge out the centrist. Different Democrats. Okay, number number four, Crypto bros. You guys are saying that this currency is going to save the world, but no one can explain to me how yeah, agreed. Like, no one can explain how it's going to save the world. No one knows. I just listened to the Crypto Bros over and over and over and over and over. This goes up, it goes down. People lose all their money. Whatever. Crypto Bros can't tell me how. What happened to the NFTs? Where they at? You guys told me, get an NFT. So it'll be 20, 19, 20, 20, 20, 21. So get an NFT. Put all the money in the NFT.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Put money in the NFT.

[Van Lathan]

What happened to the NFTs are gone. So all of this stuff, somebody. No one can explain how they're going to save the world. I don't know what's going on. Number three, Nikola Jokic Stans people that love Nikola Jokic. Now I'm at the ringer, which is the very tip of the penis for this group. Now people keep telling me that Nicola Jokic is a basketball player. Is Magic Johnson mixed with Larry Bird mixed with Shaq mixed with Tiger woods mixed with Babe Ruth mixed with Michael Jackson mixed with Spielberg mixed with McDonald's fries in 1995 mixed with the Pam and Tommy sex tape. But really, he's just Aaron Rodgers. That's who he is. And that's okay. That's like him being Aaron Rodgers is fucking cool. That's fine. But we really have to have a conversation now about how far down the road that these Nikola Jokic stands are going. He's Aaron Rodgers. He's a guy that peeled off one championship and a bunch of MVPs that we like to watch. Done. That's okay. Okay, that's fine. That's actually awesome. But that's all grow up. All right, number two, Joe Rogan comedians. In many ways, this is the saddest group. The Joe Rogan comedians Fear is the biggest group of cuck whores in the world.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Name some of them.

[Van Lathan]

So I knew you were gonna do that. I watch Joe Rogan sometimes. Cause you don't wanna. Like, this podcast for me is for the people. This podcast for Rachel is about getting at me. I knew she would do that. I have it in there. Watch Rachel say that.

[Rachel Lindsay]

I'm curious.

[Van Lathan]

And the show is. I have that in there. Like, it's easy.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Well, some people don't know.

[Van Lathan]

If you come up with the list and do the list, it's easy to just snipe.

[Rachel Lindsay]

No, some people may not know.

[Van Lathan]

So to me, it's like, legitimately, like, watching me have a conversation with my dad when I was like, 20 or 21, because it's like when every other episode of Joe Rogan, when the Joe Rogan comedians aren't on there, it's actually okay, right? Rogan's kind of good, whatever. But when the guys are on there, it's legitimately. Like when I would be talking to my father, because at that age, at 20 or 21, when I would talk to my dad, I had all of these thoughts and all of these ideas that were my own by then because I had lived enough of, of the world, but I was still too dependent on him to really drop my nuts on him, like, talking about. So by that point I could look at my dad and be like, hey, you're wrong about that, and really know it. But I still needed him too much to, like, get away from him. And watching grown men be in that dynamic, watching grown men being a dynamic, when they're sitting there with somebody and they fucking know better than what he would fucking say, but they still won't do anything about it because they're a little too dependent on him. And being in his orbit is fucking sad. It's like, sad at this point. And there are a couple. The episodes are way better when it's just fucking Joe talking to some fucking guy who thinks that the stars are actually fucking Mike and Ikes. Or like, I want, like, I watched a whole episode of I told you about this about a guy that's an archeologist argued with a guy that made the ancient archeology, ancient aliens documentary on Netflix, four hours of it I watched. Riveting. But whenever one of these guys, these comedians, mothership guys comes on, the fucking show is terrible because they know that Joe is full of shit, but they won't say it because they can't say that their dad is full of shit. These are grown ass fucking men. And the last thing I'll say about that is the issues that are being discussed aren't issues like who's the fucking hottest chick or who's cool in comedy. They fucking talking about the Epstein files. They fucking talking about, like foreign wars, they're talking about the tax code and all of that type of shit. Right? That's the type of shit that they're talking about. And they can't get over it. It's weird. It's weird. They should have been number one. But there's a clear number one, the number one ironclad, 24 karat gold diamond cult, maybe the best cult that's ever lived. I'm talking about a cult that might be better than Jonestown, better than Nexium Better than the motherfuckers that were all wearing the Nike shoes that thought the fucking comet was going to take them to heaven. Better than the fucking guy with the fucking people in Oregon. Better than any other coldest maga. That is the number one big swinging dick of dick riding cults that has ever existed. It is the greatest cult in American history by far. 30% of your friends and neighbors that just won't admit it's not going well. It's going badly and they know it. They're in the F150, spending $500 a week on gas, going to visit their sons on base who are about to be deployed. And they won't say no. They can't say no. They can't get off the teat or the tip. And it is starting to fascinate me. It does not matter. It doesn't matter. There's nothing we can do. There's nothing you can do. There's nothing you can do. There's nothing you can do. They won't. It won't. It doesn't Trump. Trump comes out. Trump goes, no wars goes to war. Trump goes, we're going to get the uranium. We don't get the uranium. No uranium, no uranium. Doesn't get anything. Trump says the goal is to open the strait. The strait was already open. The strait was already open. It was open. You closed it. And now you're gonna do something and get credit for opening it back up. And everybody goes, he cares about. He cares about opening the straight, bitch. He closed the straight.

[Rachel Lindsay]

He did.

[Van Lathan]

Like, there's nothing that could be with what's happened this year. There is nothing that could be done. I am fascinated. There was something that came out just today to where 30% of Maga thinks that Trump could beat them in a fight. Trump is 80 years old, grotesquely obese. Right?

[Rachel Lindsay]

Well, you have to think your leaders godlike.

[Van Lathan]

I'm just saying, man, this is. I will give the Senate Democrats credit for this. If I would have asked last year, two years ago, if I would have asked like Roland Martin whether or not he thought Joe Biden could beat him up, Roland would have been like, I fuck Joe Biden. You know what I'm saying? If I'd have asked, like, if I'd have asked these people, they. Not that. That's the thing. They are not that.

[Rachel Lindsay]

That's why they didn't make your top five.

[Van Lathan]

That's why they didn't make the top five. They are not that. But God damn, this is now getting to a point to where even me, someone that, like, revels in this, that loves this. This is truly, truly remarkable. Greatest cult in the history of the world.

[Rachel Lindsay]

It's a good list.

[Van Lathan]

And I loved it.

[Rachel Lindsay]

It's a good list. I thought you were gonna put the Cowboys on there as, like, cowboy fans on your honorable mention.

[Van Lathan]

They're irrelevant. It's a problem.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Oh, I set myself up for that one, I guess.

[Van Lathan]

I mean, you. All these things are relevant. Run clubs, stuff. People like that. Crypto, Nickelodeon.

[Rachel Lindsay]

What is the beef with the Run Club?

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, stuff like that. What is what.

[Rachel Lindsay]

What is the beef with Run Clubs?

[Van Lathan]

There's no beef with them.

[Rachel Lindsay]

I feel like I don't see enough of them. I only know of a couple here.

[Van Lathan]

They be running around, trying to. Like.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Is it because while you're walking, you see them running past you?

[Van Lathan]

It's funny. Everything becomes a dis. Towards me.

[Rachel Lindsay]

No, I'm trying to understand.

[Van Lathan]

It's like, no, I have run a lot. I run a lot, right? That's not it. The Run Club shit, it's just becoming a thing. It's a cult that I see developing.

[Rachel Lindsay]

See, I'm trying to understand. You think it's a. It's a. I swear to God, I'm not trying to do a dig. I'm trying to understand. Because you're like. I go. I don't see them. You go, I see them. And I thought, oh, maybe he sees them. Because he walks a lot like you walk a lot. You talked about the Grove. You talked about being by Santa Monica, all the walking you did. You got funky in the process of it. You hadn't been that stank in years. I thought, well, maybe because he's out and about so much, that's why he sees the Run Club. And maybe he feels a certain way because he's not running. And then I thought, let me ask.

[Van Lathan]

You know what?

[Rachel Lindsay]

Let me not assume. Let me ask.

[Van Lathan]

So this is what's gonna start happening. June. This is. See. See, June is.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Is what month?

[Van Lathan]

June is get at Rach Month. So let me tell y'. All. And by the way, June is Get at Rage Month.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Every episode.

[Van Lathan]

And all you f. All you fucking fucks out there in Thought Warrior land, all you fucking guys. I'm talking to you guys, right? I'm talking to you guys. You guys better keep the same energy. June is get at Rage Month. Try to do it. Try to do a nice segment with people. June is get at Rage Month. And I want to hear. See y' all back there laughing. I want the same fucking energy when I'm just sitting back, sniping. I'm gonna let Rach come up with some of this shit.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Cause you do nothing.

[Van Lathan]

Rach, you come up with some. You come up with some of this

[Rachel Lindsay]

shit, and then I'm.

[Van Lathan]

Rach, just come up with a segment of your own. Come up with. Bring something. And this is why I'm gonna sit back and just fucking. I'm gonna sit back and just poke holes in it.

[Rachel Lindsay]

You do that every time when we have a back and forth.

[Van Lathan]

No, I don't.

[Rachel Lindsay]

This is why people say you're a contrarian.

[Van Lathan]

No, people say I'm a contrarian. That's why people say I'm a contrarian. Because I don't. Like, literally. This is your podcast. I don't agree with them, like, legitimately.

[Rachel Lindsay]

A lot of times people agree with

[Van Lathan]

you on the contrarian thing. I don't agree with y'. All. Like, I'm.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Oh, you don't think you're a contrarian is what you're saying?

[Van Lathan]

No, no, no, no. I'm not a contrarian. Like, I'll truly. Like. People think that I'm being a contrarian on things. Like, I truly don't agree with you guys. Like, I truly. Like, we were talking about the.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Yeah. I don't think you say stuff for this, for just the sake of.

[Van Lathan]

Well, give me an example of something you feel like I'm being a contrarian on. Give me an example. I'll take this into advancement.

[Rachel Lindsay]

I gotta think. I gotta go back. Maybe that. That'll be my list. That'll be my list.

[Van Lathan]

That's your list. Good.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Thank you.

[Van Lathan]

Please. Your own list.

[Rachel Lindsay]

That's just. You created that segment. Okay, well, you create something for me. I'm not supposed to have created a list, but I will create lists. That's your thing. I will create a list of your top five contrarian moments. How about that?

[Van Lathan]

Top five contrarian moments. Okay, cool. I'm into this.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Or times I believed you were a contrarian.

[Van Lathan]

Like, the contrarian thing last week was about. What were we talking about earlier this week?

[Rachel Lindsay]

Scott Jennings. The Scott thing. I don't really think you were being a contrarian with that.

[Van Lathan]

How many times have I said that?

[Rachel Lindsay]

I. I don't think you were being a contrarian.

[Van Lathan]

How many times have I said.

[Rachel Lindsay]

You don't have to go into the thing about arguing. I don't believe. I don't believe are being a contrarian. Like, you truly believe what you said, and you've said it multiple times.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, like, I don't understand it's. Like, I don't want. I don't.

[Rachel Lindsay]

I think they're. I think they're thinking of other things and then they're just, like, coupling it together. But, and, and, and they'll be able to continue to do that. With my list.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah. Come up with a list of times you think I was just being a contrarian. And then after your list, give it up to Rach for all of that. After your list. I'll tell you guys why. I just don't agree with you guys. A lot of you guys out there, I'm listening to y', all, I'm hearing y'. All. I just don't agree. Okay, Fuck it. And also, my writing has worked. I argued on TV for a living for like nine years. Then also, just so people know, got fired because of an on air argument. So when you guys think about stuff like that, when you guys consider things, think about the fact that was fired for an on air argument. Was fired for an argument like that. So when I didn't give a fuck about being fired, but, like, when that situation happens, I'm not going to be somebody that thinks, hey, you lost your temper on tv, you should lose your job. Like, I just. That's, that's not a thing.

[Rachel Lindsay]

I argue, too. For seven years.

[Van Lathan]

On what?

[Rachel Lindsay]

As a litigator.

[Van Lathan]

A litigator. Would you. So what you said you didn't go to court that much, though.

[Rachel Lindsay]

You don't go to court that much. But you still have depositions. You still have to argue in motions. You have to argue when you write. You have to, like, you have hearings on your motions.

[Van Lathan]

So you argue through written arguments.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Well, for the motion, but then you set a hearing.

[Van Lathan]

Oh, okay.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Or the judge was. That's hearing.

[Van Lathan]

So you argue in court, like deposition. You argue because you're arguing with, like, the other counselors.

[Rachel Lindsay]

You don't really argue, but you have to object. And sometimes that can turn into it. It shouldn't. But sometimes you have to object, like what they're saying, because you have to create the record. But it can be an argument.

[Van Lathan]

Right.

[Rachel Lindsay]

But like every day you're going against someone, like, you're trying to figure out how to either represent your client, defend your client. Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

Interesting. I never.

[Rachel Lindsay]

I thought unless you're a contract attorney. I was. I did litigation, so it was different.

[Van Lathan]

So I thought the arguing. I thought the arguing was, Was. I thought the argument was more so in court. But you argue everywhere. Okay, cool. Get it. Are you, Are you. So like. Then give me so deposition. Rach, let's Do. Before we leave, let's do a quick deposition, like ask me a question. Try to depose me on something. I'll be like, just ask me a question about something.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Okay, this is fine. I'm trying to think of what the subject matter is. Okay, we'll stick to the subject.

[Van Lathan]

I'm on trial.

[Rachel Lindsay]

What are your. Some of your extracurricular activities?

[Van Lathan]

Me? Oh, wow. I have a lot. I like to box. Okay. I like to walk. And I don't walk where a lot of people run. I walk through the neighborhood. By the way, I like to walk. Okay. I like to play video games. Right now in June in a 162 game baseball schedule. In MLB, the show, I like to write. Okay. I like to watch all different types of movies. I won't be judged for any of the films that I do watch. There's a lot of different things that I like to do. I'm a man of many hobbies. I like to play pool. I am the 1999 intramural pool champion of Louisiana Tech University. Like to play basketball. It's a lot of stuff I like to do.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Wow. Okay. Walk. You like to walk, right? Like to walk in neighborhoods.

[Van Lathan]

The walking neighborhood is pretty special.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Do you walk at night?

[Van Lathan]

Sometimes.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Do you walk in the. In the morning?

[Van Lathan]

Sometimes.

[Rachel Lindsay]

What's your favorite time of day to walk?

[Van Lathan]

It depends on the weather. Okay. Like this morning I got up and I walked early, but last night I walked late. So there's different times I walk. Also depends on who's available for conversation. Because I like to have a conversation while I walk or listen to something. If there's new podcasts, I might listen to it. In the morning if I'm talking to my man Ryan, I might go around and walk around the neighborhood. So we talk about basketball. Very special.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Did you walk yesterday?

[Van Lathan]

I did.

[Rachel Lindsay]

What time?

[Van Lathan]

6 o'. Clock.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Yeah, okay. So fine, whatever this is. Deposition. If you were my client, I would tell you to cut all that shit out. You'd be. You'd be you. If I was on the other side, you'd be a dream. Because you talk too much.

[Van Lathan]

Right.

[Rachel Lindsay]

If you were my client, you have to be quick. If I tell you what time of day it is, you say, I don't know. I don't recall.

[Van Lathan]

Lies.

[Rachel Lindsay]

That's what you need to say.

[Van Lathan]

Lies.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Because it's too specific.

[Van Lathan]

Lies.

[Rachel Lindsay]

You think you. You think you. It's so specific.

[Van Lathan]

Lies. Lies. I don't really recall, but the reality is I do recall because I know the conversation that I was on the Phone with. I know when that, when that was made and when I was doing this.

[Rachel Lindsay]

This is why you do recall. You would be.

[Van Lathan]

I do recall.

[Rachel Lindsay]

And then I would say, but then I would say, well, do you remember the call? The day. Do you remember what time the day before? Do you remember what time with this? Like you, like I would just be. You talk so much. I mean, we're making this up. I don't even know what the case is, but we're making this up. I just use walking because we're talking about that before. You talk so much that like when it's your client, you tell them to keep it tight. Right, right. Because you're creating a record.

[Van Lathan]

But you also asked me so many, you asked me so many questions. The follow ups you asked me. I said, do you have hobbies? I said, got a lot of hobbies.

[Rachel Lindsay]

But I would keep it tight.

[Van Lathan]

I would say, say even mention eating.

[Rachel Lindsay]

If you were my client. If you were my client, I would say, do you have a. Do you have a lot of hobbies? Yes. You make the attorney do the, on the other side do the work. What are your hobbies? Well, I have a lot of them. Okay, well, what do you. What are your hobbies on the week? Like I. You make the attorney do the work and you keep it tight as, as the person.

[Van Lathan]

Well, you kept asking me questions. I thought they were interesting questions, to be honest with you. So I.

[Rachel Lindsay]

This is why you would be a dream for the other side of the attorney. Keep it tight.

[Van Lathan]

Keep. Yeah, but I mean, you know what? Fuck depositions. Like we is. I want to talk to people and I have thoughts. All right. So everybody out there, everybody was like, oh, Van's being a contrarian. All of that stuff, you guys just telling you this is dangerous to something else. I have to be honest. Last thing I'll say about this, you guys, if you want your society back, if you want some semblance of normalcy, I'm being serious now. You're going to have to fight for it. They are not going to just go away. They're not. They're not going to go away. Now the stuff that happens on CNN and Abby show and all of that stuff, a lot of that stuff is political theater. I'm not saying that that's going to make a difference in anything. But what I am saying is that I bet you if I hit Adam Mockler, who I want to come on this show and ask him if he thinks that Scott should be fired, he would have said no. And the reason why I'M sure he would have. And the reason why I think that he would say no is because he understands that that helps launch his voice. And those are the voices that we are going to need to be able to make the points. You are not going to be able to quiet and censorship and dictate and cherry pick your opponent in this fight. You're going to have to go out and fight for it. And everybody has different jobs. But like, I just don't believe in that.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Well, I agree to disagree with you.

[Van Lathan]

I didn't like the.

[Rachel Lindsay]

I believe in the voices. I don't believe in his voice anymore. And that was my point.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, but I mean, it's just gonna be another guy that comes up and then you want him fired. Fire everybody. Fire me.

[Rachel Lindsay]

No, fire me.

[Van Lathan]

I got. I didn't do what they said I did. No, but at the same time, very suddenly, you would have wanted me fired. Fire. Get him off the goddamn thing. Fuck him.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Yet. I work with you now. Yeah, you were just reminds the moment

[Van Lathan]

my time is coming. That's what you just tried to do in the deposition. It wasn't fair. You asked me all of those great, amazing questions and then you came to me after and said I was too wordy in my answers.

[Rachel Lindsay]

If I was coaching you, I would have said, tighten it up. It'd be tough.

[Van Lathan]

It'd be real tough.

[Rachel Lindsay]

You'd be old girl on the witness stand.

[Van Lathan]

Which one?

[Rachel Lindsay]

Well, you know, I was. You just be telling all too much information, just saying too much. It'd be like, oh, I could prep you and you would still just be like, you know, do you remember, you know, I love Fresh Prince. Do you remember the Fresh Prince episode? And then we're really gonna go where they're doing the game show episode and it's Carlton versus Carlton and I don't know who else. And versus Will and his friend Spain follows where Carlton knows all the answers.

[Van Lathan]

He goes, the Raider fans falls at a whopping and will go, boom. The planes. It falls in the planes. That is one of my favorite ones.

[Rachel Lindsay]

They're on the team together. Yeah, they're on the team together and then it's their friend or whatever. But Carlton just can't say the answer. He's got to let everybody know how he came to the answer and why. That's the answer. That would be you.

[Van Lathan]

I'm a podcaster.

[Rachel Lindsay]

And let me tell you why.

[Van Lathan]

Come up with signals.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Let's go.

[Van Lathan]

All right, take Dean caps off, but do not stop learning haters.

[Rachel Lindsay]

I'm rachel. Goodbye.