← Higher Learning with Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay
Higher Learning with Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay
The End of the Shutdown with Rep. Summer Lee, Plus the ‘Michael’ Trailer Reactions
01:51:24
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- [00:02]
A
Yo, yo, yo, Thought warriors. What is up? Her learning is on. Is I, Van Lathan Jr. And it's.
- [00:09]
B
Me, Rachel and Lindsey.
- [00:10]
A
Just where the hell are you at?
- [00:12]
B
What do you mean where are you? I'm in Dallas. I'm in Dallas. My sister, I couldn't say it before. I was so afraid I was gonna say it on the podcast cause she listens to every episode. But my sister had a surprise birthday party. Brother in law threw it for us. She turned 45 and so we all came down from everywhere. Her college friends from Spelman came all over the country. My sister came, I came. We all came down here to celebrate her and she was surprised and it was really special. It was really nice. So I'm still here in Dallas.
- [00:45]
A
It smells like Ben Gay in the room right now.
- [00:50]
B
Did you ask?
- [00:52]
A
Well, it's because of me.
- [00:54]
B
It's you.
- [00:55]
A
Yeah.
- [00:56]
B
You hurt yourself. Basketball, boxing.
- [01:01]
A
I have to put Advil cream on my Achilles now. Both Achilles.
- [01:06]
B
I do. Is it basketball?
- [01:08]
A
Achilles tendonitis. I stopped playing for a while.
- [01:11]
B
That's a real thing. You need to be careful with that. I know a lot of people who tear their Achilles.
- [01:16]
A
So I'm gonna go ahead and knock on wood. Cause you speak it.
- [01:18]
B
I said it, not you.
- [01:19]
A
You speak shit over me. That's okay. You spoke it over me. That's the way that it goes. So I'm going to a podiatrist to get my Achilles checked out. Now I'm going this week. Both Achilles are sore.
- [01:29]
B
You're so dramatic. You are so dramatic. I'm dramatic, but not in the same way as you. If my Achilles was sore, I would rub the whatever it is on it. I would ice it, heat it and I would elevate it.
- [01:44]
A
That's what I'm doing.
- [01:44]
B
It would never even cross my mind to go to a podiatrist.
- [01:49]
A
Do you have any idea how toxic you are, like on a daily basis?
- [01:54]
B
No, but I know that you constantly love to tell me. I'm just saying you're contract. You said it yourself.
- [01:59]
A
Blows my mind. Like I am a black man who has an ailment who is going to the doctor to check it out. I'm doing what? So many of you have a sore Achilles. Dude. No, it's not just sore. It's bothering me. What do you think? You don't think I don't ice it? You don't think I haven't elevated it?
- [02:16]
B
Sore Achilles.
- [02:16]
A
So you don't.
- [02:17]
B
But the fact that you turned it on a black, black baby.
- [02:20]
A
No, no, no, no. Because. No, because this is the shit that we be talking about. I have sore Achilles and I have iced my Achilles and I have elevated my Achilles. I've bought compression socks for my Achilles. I've done everything. And now I'm going to the doctor. And as I go to the doctor, you land base and ridicule and criticize, criticize, criticize, criticize.
- [02:46]
B
Are you not a self proclaimed hypochondriac?
- [02:49]
A
This is not.
- [02:51]
B
Did you not. These are your words. You have said this about yourself.
- [02:54]
A
You ever see the Godfather 3? No, you didn't? So I'm gonna. So I'm gonna see. I'm gonna say something here. This is so. I use this on tailgate, but I'm gonna bring it back here. Rachel, when you watch the Godfather 3, you're gonna see something in the movie, right? You're gonna see Andy Garcia at his best, at his most. Andy Garcia, okay? He plays Vincent Mancini, who is the bastard son of Sonny Corleone, right? And there's a part where Joey Zaza is talking to Michael Corleone. And Joey Zaza is into it with Vincent Mancini. Michael is Vincent's uncle, right? He's got the backing of Michael's sister, Connie Corleone to be in the family, but Joy Zaza doesn't want him in the family. And Vincent is in a doorway as Joy Zaza is talking to Michael. And he's talking and then Vincent goes, huh? What I'm doing with this guy, huh? What I'm gonna do with this guy? You know, it's tell him, say to his face one time. Because you go around Brooklyn saying Michael Corleone, just say it to his face one time. One time, huh? I'm gonna do it. This guy. That's how I feel about you sometimes. What am I doing, huh?
- [04:03]
B
No, you feel about me. What am I doing? This guy.
- [04:05]
A
Huh? What am I doing with this guy, huh? Say it to my friend one time. Say it to his face one time.
- [04:18]
B
Okay, you. I'm sorry, I do. I do wish you the best.
- [04:22]
A
You don't care. You like I'm in pain like Bernard. Does it not smell like being gay in this? I got Advil cream on my Achilles. I'm okay. I'm walking around.
- [04:34]
B
Slow down a little bit.
- [04:35]
A
I'm trying to be healthy, you know, And I can't. It's just everything is. I'm old man.
- [04:42]
C
Can I just get something set you.
- [04:43]
B
Up for a three by three basketball tournament that the Clippers were doing? And the road to All Star Games?
- [04:48]
A
I Seen it. They reached out.
- [04:49]
B
Did Layla. Okay. Cause Layla.
- [04:51]
A
Oh, I'm doing that.
- [04:52]
B
Asked me about you. It was Saturday.
- [04:55]
A
Oh, damn. I'm not doing that. I thought it was All Star Game or something like that. I was getting ready.
- [05:00]
B
It's not Celebrity All Star Game, which you should do that too.
- [05:02]
A
But.
- [05:02]
B
But she asked me if I wanted to do it. She said it was a chance for me to prove myself. And she wanted you to do it. And she wanted you to do it. And I was like, well, I'm out of town. And so is. Because I thought you were going out of town this weekend.
- [05:15]
A
I was. It was in Vegas watching a great documentary.
- [05:18]
B
So I was like, oh. And I was like, van's out of town too.
- [05:21]
A
So, no, I would have definitely done that. I was about to call Irv Rowland and start getting my shit back together and all of that stuff. I thought we could do a team. We could do me, you, and then we would have to get like somebody truly dominant.
- [05:34]
B
Really good.
- [05:40]
A
We'd have to get me, you, and somebody truly dominant.
- [05:42]
B
But I'm sure they'll do it again. I'm sure they'll do it again. And this gives you time to rest up. This is great.
- [05:47]
A
Yeah, we'll see what the podiatrist says. I'm not sure whether or not you go to orthopedics or podiatrist, but I'm going to the podiatrist or orthopedic surgeon. I was going to an orthopaedic. I don't give a. I'm checking. I'm getting checked out. Like it's a lot of people around here that shit happens and they don't get checked out. Well, guess what I'm doing. I'm getting checked out. And let me tell you why I can get checked out because I have insurance.
- [06:12]
B
I have health insurance.
- [06:13]
A
Now we have Rep. Summer Lee. Come look how it all comes around full circle. Rachel.
- [06:18]
B
We have rep. That's a beautiful van.
- [06:19]
A
We have Rep. Summer Lee coming on the show later, but we should say right now something happened. Donnie, tell us what happened. Just. Just recently.
- [06:26]
D
Yeah. Senators reached a tentative deal to end the shutdown. They say that they've secured a vote on the Affordable Care act subsidies that have been at the center of the standoff. They say that this is the best possible offer we could secure. You mentioned we have Representative Summer Lee coming on soon. But your guys reaction to the news.
- [06:46]
A
Rach, what do you think?
- [06:47]
B
I was disappointed. I mean, I hear this and listen and when I say this, I Preface this by saying, obviously, I want people to receive their benefits. I want people to be taken care of. I want people to not have to make a choice of how they're going to support their families and have to rob Peter to pay Paul in order just to survive. And it seemed like there was no end in sight. So obviously I'm in support of all those things. But I was also in support of the government shutdown. I believed it was a strong thing for a strong showing for the Democrats. I thought it showed unity and I thought they were doing exactly what we asked them to do back in March. They folded. This was an opportunity. A lot was on the line, particularly with healthcare, as you mentioned. And this was their opportunity to show we care about the American people, we care about their health, we care about their well being in this country, and which is what the party is supposed to represent. And this was a showing for them to do that very thing and to prove that the Republicans aren't the Republicans. And Donald Trump have done. Donald Trump, I'll just say, has done everything he possibly can to starve Americans. Everything from his branch, legislative branch and the Supreme Court, the judicial branch, every single thing to show that he would rather hurt people than help people. After the elections we just had last week, coupled with all the things Trump's doing, it showed that this shutdown was necessary to put on full display how problematic the Republican Party is, how problematic Donald Trump is, and to show that we're going to fight against it. You've been doing this for 40 days. You have eight senators who decide, Democrat senators who decide to vote to end the shutdown, they gain nothing from this. So then the reason I say I'm disappointed is because then it bears the question, so was this all in vain? What was the point of doing all of this? This is what it feels like if you were going to gain nothing, and particularly not towards healthcare, which was your main argument as for the purpose of the shutdown, I think the biggest thing also that comes from this is it shows Trump did nothing, he didn't concede anything when it came to this. And it shows that Trump is willing to put the pressure. He's willing to use food and benefits as a weapon. He's willing to show you, as I just said, that he will hurt you over anything to get what it is done that he wants to accomplish. And the Democrats have shown that they will fold under pressure. At least these eight did. Right? An argument that there are more behind that. Right. But these eight, they have shown that they will fold under pressure. And so if I am Trump and I'm the Republicans, for me, I know I'm going to remember this. And I feel like I'll always have the upper hand when it comes to putting pressure on you to get the things that we want. That is why this is disappointing to me.
- [09:52]
A
The bill Itself is a 3, 4 year has. It contains 3 full year appropriation bills that will fund certain departments, like the Department of Agriculture through the end of the fiscal year next fall and a continuing resolution. I know you guys hear that term a lot. CR to continue the government at the spending levels that have been agreed to before. It's like a bunch of different CRS. These existing spending levels through January 30th. We talked a little bit about with Rep. Lee, if that means we could be back on the precipice of another shutdown January 30th, I sincerely doubt that. But we got her opinion on it. She's going to talk a little bit more about that. It also is going to fund SNAP through next September, which was a big, big deal. It does not include what the crux of the shutdown was about, which was continuing the extension or not continuing the extension. Implementing an extension of the ACA subsidies. Now, we're going to talk a little bit more about this specifically. But before we get into the ACA subsidies and essentially what it is that we're discussing, we saw about two things. Number one, there was some talk that maybe there was a vote that was promised on extending these subsidies in early December. Mike Johnson, directly, directly speaker of the House directly rebuked or at the very least contended that claim. He said that he won't promise that the House will vote on extending the subsidies. The eight Democrats who did not want to vote yes on. Excuse me, the eight Democrats that, yeah. That voted yes, should I say, to fund the government were Dick Durbin. Always thought that was a porn name. Dick Durbin. We'll talk. We'll talk about porn in a second. We got James Hellerico story coming up. John Fetterman, Tim Kaine, Jackie Rosen, Hasan King, Catherine Cortez. Did like all die. Just all of you've heard these names. Fuck it. You guys are very important. You know the names. You know the names. What's at stake when we talk about the ACA subsidies? I see a lot of people talking about this and I think that there are two things that happen here sometimes, right. There is a moral disagreement about how much people should be immiserated for a political fight. That is a completely appropriate conversation to have whether or not someone should starve because they don't have their SNAP benefits, or whether or not someone should be getting evicted or have to go to a food bank or anything like that because they are a federal worker and not being paid during the shutdown. I happen to believe this, that if you are going to fight with Donald Trump and this particular wing of the MAGA Republicans, then you had better be prepared to bleed.
- [13:08]
B
Yeah, okay. Yeah.
- [13:10]
A
We'll say this, though. That's easy to say, of course.
- [13:14]
B
Of course.
- [13:15]
A
When it's not your blood, right? It's easy to say when you're not gonna have any problem paying your rent. It's easy to say when you still have healthcare. It's easy to say when you still are able to, you know, go put food on the table. So for a lot of people like myself that are in philosophical political fights, we should always remember that the people that are in the crosshairs of this aren't us. It's very important to say, however, there are other people that are in the crosshairs. All right? Right now, I'm sure as you guys have seen it, there was a back and forth, or is a back and forth between Roland Martin and Charlamagne, the God, right? And this back and forth has to do with a contingent of people who believe that the Democrats should open the government to stop the immiseration of people and other people that are voting on that are looking at this as a political fight. The reason why I want to drill down on some information right here is just so everybody knows what we're talking about when we say the ACA subsidies are going to end in December. That means that these are subsidies that were passed during the Biden administration that supplement people up to 400% for their health care, up to 400% of the federal poverty limit. Right. Now, let's get into this like from a number standpoint. 100% of the federal poverty limit for one person living by themselves is $15,000. I'm looking at the numbers right now, 15,000 bucks. So I want you guys to picture this. This is one person that makes $15,000 a year. That's a little bit less than $300 in a two week pay period. That person right now is getting subsidies from the Affordable Care act to be able to pay for their health care. When those subsidies end, that person will not have to pay more for health care. That person won't be able to afford health care at all.
- [15:29]
B
Right?
- [15:30]
A
They will drop off something called the subsidy cliff, which means you are essentially taking their health care from them. If it's even $400 a month for them to pay for their healthcare, they simply cannot afford it. Right now, these subsidies go up to people that are 400% of the federal poverty limit. They are very important. Now, there's one thing in this back and forth that I think that Charlamagne and the Breakfast Club got wrong. And I think the reason why I want to point this out is because I think that everybody is looking at this in a way that not everyone. There are some people that are looking at this in a way that presupposes that the fight is already done. All right, what they said about the immiseration of people and how people needed the government to be open, a lot of people needed the government to be open so that they weren't put through, you know, put into poverty by not being able to pay their bills or being starved because of SNAP things. That the SNAP situation is directly Donald Trump's fault, right? Because past presidents and shutdowns kept SNAP going, and he decided to take the American people hostage, or a large percentage of them by taking their SNAP benefits away. So the blame that is to be placed, in my opinion, is squarely on the shoulders of Donald Trump, who decided that he, in a political fight to fund people's health care, was. Would take starving children hostage. That is a fact. However, those children were, in fact, going to be starved. And so that. That's a thing. But the reason why I want to drill down on some of this information is just so people understand kind of what the situation is. There's nothing that's been made permanent right now as far as the continuing of the subsidies. Everybody that got a letter that said that their subsidies had gone up, that is an estimation of how much they will go up after December 31, 2025, where they run out. That has not happened yet. And when, in fact, if, in fact, all of this money was made available to those people, right? If these subsidies were voted upon and they were extended, those premiums would be recalculated and those numbers would come down. People would not fall off of the subsidy cliff, and people would not have to pay more for their premiums because the health insurance companies would be very silly not to take advantage of the money that the government has provided for them. They would essentially be turning down money. These subsidies go to the people. The people then pay the health insurance companies. The health insurance companies aren't going to say, hey, we want the higher premiums, so we're not going to expect no, they would recalculate and then the money would be made available. So there's nothing about this that is permanent as we speak on this podcast right now? Nothing. There's nothing that's already done. I think that there are a lot of people who think that the moment that those letters went out or that the big beautiful bill was passed, which did gut snap, which did not include the extension to the subsidies, that this was already done. It's not done. Which is why the Democrats tried to get it done in the shutdown. We talked about this with Rep. Lee, brought it up. That's why there is still a sliver of hope to do two things here. Number one, to win the rhetorical battle of the shutdown. If the rhetorical battle of the shutdown is which side of this wants Americans to be able to pay for their healthcare and which side of this doesn't. If the Democrats message right, and there is either no vote in early December or there is a vote in early December and the Republicans do not vote to extend the ACA subsidies, you can squarely rest the fact that there are going to be millions of people affected by this that are going to be in red states. You can firmly put that on Donald Trump's lap and Mike Johnson's lap and Thune's lap. If you do it right now, if they don't have the vote at all, they're essentially punting on the issue and you can do it again. If, in fact they do have the vote and the subsidies are passed, then the Democrats can claim victory for the shutdown. They can then say, we mainstream this issue, we fought for it, we ended the shutdown. But look, we still got Americans the health care that they needed. This fight for the health care of Americans is something that we should all be paying attention to because it is central to the way people view the inner workings of this country. There are two sides to this. One side is a group of people that believe that health care is a right. And at some point there should be some type of system, whether that system is single payer, multipayer, whatever, that seeks to provide health care for Americans. There is another side that thinks that if you are poor, if you are one of these people that's making $15,000 a year, that is making 20,000, 22, 30, $30,000 a year, is 200% of the federal poverty level, Right? If you are one of those people that they think you should not have healthcare, they believe that somebody who is poor that can't afford to go to the Doctor should simply die, they want.
- [21:11]
B
To phase you out.
- [21:12]
A
Or that person should make all kinds of existential choices between the health of their body or putting food on the table or living in a home or driving in the car or whatever it is. That choice is the central choice of American politics. When you look at the difference between the two sides. I am not in any way putting on a cape and a hat for the Democrats because there's more that could be done. There's more that could be done in terms of getting people the healthcare that they need, and it could be being done faster. But there's a lobby and there's a lot of money, and there's all it is. But the facts are the facts. There is one side that is arguing that this person right here that's making $15,000 a year should be able to continue to get money to help them pay for their healthcare. And there is another side that simply doesn't want that to happen. And that's the reality. And, like, that's what it is. And so when we're having this conversation and I've talked to everyone and we're all talking and everybody's. We want to make sure that when we're going and having these back and forths, that these back and forths are actually about what happens in people's lives and not about, you know, problems that people might have with one another and all of that type of stuff like that. We want to make sure that the focus is on this person making $15,000 a year. The reason why I keep bringing them up is because there's also a side that's stifling their wage growth. They could be making more money than this.
- [22:48]
C
Right.
- [22:48]
A
But we won't pass a federal minimum wage increase. We won't pass. We won't do. We won't do. We won't do. We won't do this. It's like. Like legitimately, if you weren't born in a certain situation with a certain set of factors, then you deserve to be sick. So I'm saying all of this just so people know that there is still a chance for us, still a chance for people to force their government to help people not fall off the subsidy cliff and not have their premiums go up to the point to where they can't afford them anymore.
- [23:21]
B
You said that there were a couple of things that you believe that the Breakfast Club got wrong. Did you actually specify them? I'm assuming you meant when.
- [23:31]
A
Like, that's what I meant. Like, what I meant is when they.
- [23:34]
B
Were Talking about that. It hasn't taken place yet.
- [23:37]
C
Right.
- [23:37]
B
That's the one thing that they got wrong.
- [23:39]
A
The one thing that they got wrong was there was seemingly, at least it looked as if it looked like they were saying, no, he said it. The shutdown fight is almost. Is already over and there's nothing that can be done about it. That's not true.
- [23:54]
B
No, they absolutely said that. And he said that because the open enrollment was in November 1st. He was like, it's already happening. The healthcare premiums have already gone up. And that's not necessarily true. Absolutely, he said that. And the guests that they brought on Mimi, Mimi backed that up as well.
- [24:11]
C
Yeah.
- [24:12]
A
So, so, and I. And the reason why that's important to talk about is because the shutdown did have something that it was trying to achieve beyond whatever political motivations you might believe about whether or not Leader Schumer thinks he's going to get primaried and all of that stuff. And that is not an L yet. And if it is an L, and this is what people don't understand, and we could do a better job at this, at higher learning. If you lose the fight, the only thing you have left to do is to identify your opposition. This is a core understanding in life. You lose your job, the job is lost.
- [25:09]
B
Yeah.
- [25:10]
A
The only thing that you can do when you're walking down the street is go, these are the people that fired me for no reason. And this is why they did it, so that everybody understands that this is a place where things aren't fair and where people are fucking over people in this situation, if, in fact they refuse to vote or they vote not to extend the ACA subsidies, they will be immiserating millions and millions of Americans. And whatever bill Trump wants to pass will face a very steep uphill challenge. Whatever type of Trump health care bill that they say they're going to do, whatever that they haven't really put forth or whatever, whatever. That. That's a figment of imagination. Right now we're talking about instant, instant pain that will take place in December.
- [26:06]
B
So that has been looming forever. They have been. They didn't. Democrats didn't wait till the, you know, the, the last minute to try to make this happen. They have been trying.
- [26:17]
A
Yes, they did. Well, well, they waited till the last minute to shut the government down. Over it.
- [26:21]
B
To shut the government down, I'm saying. But they weren't. They wait till the last minute to talk about healthcare and that these were expiring. That is what I. They didn't. The Republicans have Always been anti ACA and have yet. And this is where Marjorie Taylor Greene comes in. They have yet to ever say anything about how they were going another plan about how they were going to fix it and how they were going to give affordable health care to Americans. So I just wanna say that that was. The Democrats did not wait till the last minute.
- [26:50]
A
Hold on for a second. Don't.
- [26:51]
B
No. Don't you dare.
- [26:52]
D
Don't do that.
- [26:53]
A
Don't do that to my goat. Don't do that to my goat. There's no such person as Marjorie. There's no such person as Marjorie Taylor Greene. There's Marjorie Taylor King. Mtk. Don't do that to my goat, man. Don't call my goat out her name like that. Don't do that to my goat. There's no Marjorie Taylor Greene. Don't exist. Marjorie Taylor King.
- [27:12]
B
How easily I have a dream have jumped ship.
- [27:16]
A
She rode the train. Okay, Marjorie. She rode the train to glory. Marjorie Taylor King. I rode the train to glory. Marjorie Taylor King. Show me the Epstein files. Marjorie Taylor King. I want to healthcare for all Americans. I'm Marjorie Taylor King. Like, don't. Don't hate on my goat.
- [27:36]
C
Stop.
- [27:37]
A
Don't, don't. Don't disrespect my goat. It's a new goat out here, man. Mtk in this motherfucker. Don't disrespect her now, Rach, come on.
- [27:48]
B
She will hear this.
- [27:50]
C
And use this, people use this.
- [27:55]
A
Can I say something about a Martin Luther King Jr. Voice? Don't do Martin Luther King Jr. Voice. It's only ever really worked for one guy.
- [28:05]
B
Martin Luther King Jr. That's it.
- [28:06]
A
Martin Luther King Jr. Voice is like the sky hook.
- [28:09]
B
Who's guilty? Who's guilty?
- [28:11]
A
Man, so many people have tried to use it. Shout out to some of my homeboys in Congress from Texas. They done tried to use it before. Barack Obama has before used it.
- [28:20]
B
He had a moment.
- [28:21]
A
He. Martin Luther King Jr. Voice.
- [28:23]
B
One of the Tennessee Three.
- [28:24]
A
One of the Tennessee Three. Martin Luther King Jr. Voice. Jesse Jackson is the most effective user of Martin Luther King Jr. Voice. That's not actually Martin Luther King Jr. He used it pretty well. But like I said, it's like the, you know, like Kareem Skyhook, only it's devastatingly effective, but only for one motherfucker. Don't use the voice unless you Marjorie Taylor King.
- [28:52]
B
Also, white women get a pass.
- [28:54]
A
Yeah, she could do it. She not. Come on, man. She not white no more, bruh.
- [28:57]
C
She.
- [28:58]
A
Nah, she one of us, man.
- [28:59]
B
I love that it's so entertaining to you what she's doing.
- [29:02]
A
I like it. I like it.
- [29:04]
B
Did you like it? Did you like it when Candace Owens did it?
- [29:07]
A
She never really. She hasn't become Candace Owens. Abernathy Candace Owens.
- [29:15]
B
Well, she went from Candace. Don't call me Black Owens to Candace. I know. I like black people too, Owen.
- [29:23]
A
She could be Candace Chisholm, but she not there yet. Now.
- [29:27]
B
I was not Chisholm. Don't you dare.
- [29:29]
A
She could have been chosen to be Candace Chisholm. She hasn't, though. She actually. Candace Owens has now actually moved kind of into Alex Jones space.
- [29:40]
B
Cause she given us big time conspiracy theorists.
- [29:44]
A
And boy, are they entertaining, man.
- [29:46]
B
I agree.
- [29:47]
A
But boy, are they. I'm sorry, guys. I know y' all don't like to hear this, but Candace Owens will be like, getting interviewed with someone and they'll be like, oh, you know, Kenny assassination. And she'll be like, martians killed Kennedy. Everybody knows. And they'll be like, candace, do you have proof that Martians killed Kennedy? And she'll be like, I don't need proof that Martians killed Kennedy. Anybody that says Martians didn't kill Kennedy, you should look at them. Because why would they say that when it's completely honest? That a fucking UFO came from Mars? It landed, shot, bullet went back into the ufo, it went back to Mars. Are you fucking stupid? And then I'll be watching this shit and I'll be like, am I stupid? Because I don't think that they did that. But she believed.
- [30:30]
C
But she kind of.
- [30:32]
A
She kind of spitting right now. She kind of. She kind of spitting. She's making me believe that the Martians killed President Kennedy. She still don't have me.
- [30:41]
B
Like, the chaos that she's bringing, like, that's just what's entertaining to me.
- [30:44]
A
Chaos agents on the right.
- [30:46]
B
Oh, oh, we love it.
- [30:48]
A
Speaking of the right, let's get to Summer Lee. But then we gotta talk about the right hand. After we talk about Summer Lee, let's get to our interview with Rep. Summer Lee, representing Pennsylvania's 12th congressional district. First black woman to represent Pennsylvania in Congress. And Meek Millfan.
- [31:13]
C
I'm from Pittsburgh.
- [31:14]
A
I know. I'm just putting that on you. So it's Wiz Khalifa.
- [31:20]
C
I'm not here to be for Philadelphia or anything on today. That's cool.
- [31:23]
A
Is Wiz Khalifa then.
- [31:25]
C
He's from Pittsburgh.
- [31:26]
A
He's from Pittsburgh. That's what I'm trying to say.
- [31:27]
C
I love his mama.
- [31:28]
A
You love his mama? You love his mama.
- [31:30]
D
Wow.
- [31:31]
A
We have Summer Lee joining us right now. Look, Ripley, we don't have time to beat around the bush right now. We are great admirers of yours and the higher learning audience loves you. But there is major political news happening right now. Some people look at it as the Senate Democrats caving and voting to reopen the government. Thus, according to some people, in the opinion of some people, ending the fight to extend the ACA subsidies for another year. The Republicans have said they might take up this vote in December. Maybe they will take up this vote in December. But millions of people's health care right now is on the line because the Senate Democrats could not get what they wanted, their stated reason for the shutdown. Okay, as you sit here right now, do you look at this as the Senate Democrats caving? Do you look at the shutdown. Shutdown as a political stunt and something that didn't have any substantive effect in the way that they wanted it to?
- [32:39]
C
All right, so I'm going to say how I look at it and how history looks at it may be different things, okay? But right now, from, from my point, like you, you said it, you know, people are going to be impacted. The health care is. It was always a real fight. It was always a real thing. And that we stepped in 10 toes down about this health care thing, did the work of getting that messaging out so that people around the country understood how dire the situation was, was the very right move to then not get anything on it. This isn't even a promise because the reality is, is that Johnson said he's not doing it. This is not even coming to that. This is not coming to a vote on the House floor. So for me, and what I think that some people are going to be looking at is why do we do this in the first place? Why do we put people through 40 days and 40 nights of pain and get nothing out of it? I think it's really unfortunate. I think that these are really desperate times. And I think that you give Republicans an inch, we already know they're going to take far more than a mile. And I think that what they learned from this is that at the end of the day, at the end of the day, they're going to get what they want.
- [33:47]
A
Can I read something for you? Can I read something for you real quick? All right, this is from Tim over at the Bulwark. He says, ready for my most controversial taste yet. He feels like the Democrats won the shutdown fight. I'm going to give you these points. He says this fold won't matter at all. In the next year's, in next year's midterms. But making the GOP own the dog shit big beautiful bill tariff health care policies will again. He says this is not an example of Dems not fighting like Republicans. It's a longer shutdown than anything the kamikaze Tea Party ever did. Another point he says the people who are mad about this are a small subset of the electorate that treat politics like sports and it's possible that they're crying about the fold will contribute to snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. There's a couple more points he makes. There was no path to getting the Obamacare subsidies back because the GOP controls everything and was never going to do it. And they are fake populists. Dems should run against them on that topic and they have a great case study. Now Marjorie Taylor Greene helps with that last point. The fact that there was no getting Obamacare subsidy extension endgame was obvious at the start and anyone setting that expectation was lying to people. So what he's essentially arguing is that as a mechanism to get the subsidies back or to get people's health care funded, it was a failure now and was always going to be a failure. But as a political maneuver by the Democrats it might end up working because now this fight for the ACA subsidies is top of mind to people. Do you see any type of credence in his thought process?
- [35:28]
C
Yeah, in a perfect world the problem with some of that, that's why I said how history will look at it might be very different because the reality is is that we were always in an uphill battle when it comes with Republicans with a trifecta that is 100% true. But my contention would be is that Democrats for success always rely on a coalition, right? Democrats don't win and Asylum don't want in a bubble. Right. We don't need just centrists. We don't need just liberals, just progressives. We need our electorate behind us, all parts of our electorate. We need the media and we rarely have the media. So how this story gets told is going to be a really important piece right now. Whether or not people look at some of those Dems who back down right now, whatever you call it, back down, fold down, whatever how they look at them, they are going to need to shape, which means that they're going to have to be far more expert than they've been to date. I don't think that the press conference tour yesterday was compelling, but maybe there's more time they're going to have to go up against all of Trump's media apparatus. Right. Social media owned by his cronies, legacy media that always has a little bit of a skew bias towards both sidesism. Both sides of them always benefits Republicans. So if by two years the story isn't still Democrats cave, Schumer cave both on one big beautiful bill and caved on a 40 day shutdown, then that's going to be a really hard thing to navigate if the conversation is instead Democrats took them to the precipice to get everything out of them that they could. Democrats care more about people and that's the reason why they couldn't stand to look at, you know, they're real people. Federal workers hurting while SNAP recipients are hurting while TSA is hurting. Right. If we can craft that, then yeah. But that contention is all reliant upon that. And I just haven't seen, I just haven't seen us on top of the messaging. I haven't seen messaging in our favor as consistently and persistently as we need it to be from today to November of next year.
- [37:26]
B
Yeah, yeah, I agree with you. I think the fact that the Democrats, the eight moved over to get this, to move this forward, it feels like Trump and Republicans can now say, see, they were the holdup. And then the other side of it is they can now say, well, nothing happened. To your point at the beginning, it's been 40 days and it seems like all of this was in vain. So what was the point anyway if at the end of the day we're still not going, Obamacare is still not going to be intact in the way that it was prior to that. A lot of talk about Chuck Schumer right now as well, that Chuck Schumer was always was fully aware and informed with what the Democrats, the eight Democrats were doing. Which one of them has already come out and said that. So a lot of people are saying, hey, don't look at the fact that he voted no on this. He was behind what was happening in all of this Anyway. Ro Khanna, who you work with on a bill that we'll get to later, is calling for Chuck Schumer to resign. What are your thoughts on that?
- [38:33]
C
I think that with the conversation about whether he voted for it or whether it was just eight rogue actors, I don't believe that there's such a thing as rogue actors to a good leader. And I think that that's just real. Right. Whether or not actually, I don't think the question is whether or not he knew. I think that if he did not know, then that's maybe even worse because a good, strong leader is up in their members faces, right? They're talking to them, they're weighing the options. They're plugged in. They know what's going on in their members, districts. They know what's going on with their base. They understand the conditions that all of their members are operating in. And objectively, the Senate is smaller than the House, which means that those are fewer members that they even have to keep, I'm not going to say in line. So I think that the stronger argument is that he, that he did this, you know, own it. Own it. I think that what we need to see right now is responsibility. Like, we need to see accountability. We need to see people say that we walked our country into this and we either had a plan and it succeeded or we had a. Or we did not have a plan and we failed. But I think the measure of leadership is your ability to take accountability for that. I would like to see, I mean, obviously for me, I want to see boldness. I want to see people who understand this moment right now. And that's not what I'm seeing from like the one big, you know, the reconciliation package back in July. And I want to say this, aside from all of the other arguments about how history and all the people reflect on this, I think we cannot overestimate how people feel. I think people in the country are not just looking for a Senate and a House leadership that leads their own caucus. They are looking for a leadership that leads the country right now, the entire Democratic and even independent base. Because these are different times than we've ever experienced. We are full throttle into authoritarianism. People are looking for some guidance. They're looking for somebody who's like, nuck, if you buck right. They looking for the figure on a horse riding in the front, not from the back. And I think that these times call for that type of leadership. And I think that it's okay to do an assessment and say that I am not prepared to be that leader. That the leadership of, oh, where your whole responsibility was raising money, you know, for your, for your caucus, that your whole responsibility was, you know, making sure that boats were whipped. That that was one form of leadership for one day. And that day doesn't exist anymore.
- [40:52]
A
Practically. What does that look like? If so, there were a lot of people that before were like, you know, Chuck Schumer didn't have the nuts to shut the government down. So the first time they passed the CR then they go into the shutdown. This time and they base it around the continuing of the ACA subsidies. They don't get what they want. They look neutered. Again, particularly, they look neutered after last week's elections that seemingly indicated so much energy for the Democrats right now and a strong base of people that are sick of Trumpism. But one week later, it's back to Cuckville, back to Kukland Kuk Kingdom, where the Democrats seem to live. How would you run the party if you were in charge of it right now? Would you have shut the government down? Would you have voted to reopen the government? What are the considerations right now that the Democrats need to be making before they take on these huge Herculean decisions?
- [41:58]
C
And look, I just want to start 100% by saying this is one opinion. Many people will have different opinions. And I think that your best leadership is leadership that can take all those opinions in into account and come up with the best plan. So I'm answering your one question. How would I do it without having any other input from anybody else? I think that when we talk about people who want to see leadership of not just the caucus but also of the electorate, I think that that looks like empowering people so that they can be soldiers in this war as well. But at the end of the, hey, we're not going to win if we're relying just on Democrats holding ground. It's very real. It is very real that we don't have the House, we don't have the Senate, we don't have the White House, we barely have any courts. That's not fake. That's a real exercise of power that millions and millions of people that they wanted, that they asked for, they asked for Republicans to leave this country. Right now we have to demonstrate while people are upset, that we have a different vision. So the first thing, at first, I would say that we have to define who we are, right? Democrats want to, they want to serve two masters. I say three masters. Even worse. You know, you can be the party of corporations, corporate, you know, corporate needs corporate sponsors. And then you want to be the party of people at the same time. They want to be the party of incumbency, but the party of democracy at the same time, right? We have to choose who we're going to be and we have to be it just unapologetically. I think that is the first thing. This is not a message problem, it's a messenger problem. It's number two, we need to put our best messengers forward, credible messengers, which means that, yeah, I actually think that There are some people who are nostalgic for a time that will not exist anymore. I think it's okay to say that you served well, right? You know, my faithful servant, you served well. And now is a time for people who can fight differently in this era. And then I would say, like, empowering people. I do think that we. I do think that the shutdown was important. People don't shut down governments for fun. I promise you there. I didn't talk to anybody who was like, we're doing this because we just want to do a political. This isn't a political stunt man. Our own teams, you know, don't have money, didn't have, are not being paid, can't eat. Like our own family members. If you're like me, I got family members who are federal workers, family members who are SNAP recipients, you know, family members of tsa. I got family members, people in our real lives who this is impacting. When we come to a budget impasse, it's almost always because for the first time, poor and working class people are being represented at the appropriations table. You only see shutdowns when poor and working people are actually being represented well or actually making demands or actually asking for something of their government. That's the only time you see a shutdown. So when we go to that, know it was dire, know that it was real. So I think it was the right move. It was the right move to not concede that. I think that what we need to do next is we need to empower those people. We need to talk about how a government shutdown comes with sacrifice. It comes with us taking care of people. A government shutdown is like a strike. We don't have strike funds. We don't have people, community who are supporting those folks who have to take the immediate sacrifice. We need to make sure that we are building that infrastructure. We need to make sure that people understand that they have a role to play in our democracy, too, through their dollars, through their labor, through their organizing effort. I think that that's what I think leadership needs to look like right now.
- [45:09]
B
Do you think. Do you think that this move takes away from the progress that everyone talks about that happened on election day on November 4th?
- [45:20]
C
If we let it. If we let it. Listen, I'm not gonna. I'm not gonna be. And I'm critical. People know that I have been critical of my own party. I think that it's important to look at the mirror before you show the mirror to somebody else. And I think that a lot of people are demoralized right now because of election day. They're demoralized because they were like, this is the moment to take the stand and they were seeing Dems. The problem is that so many people relied on Democrats to fold. And even as I talked to people, I talked about how important that November 1st date was, I'm like, keep this in mind, y'.
- [45:55]
B
All.
- [45:55]
C
On November 1, SNAP benefits are going to expire in many states. The federal workers will have gone without at least an entire month of pay. LIHEAP is going to expire. So many things are happening and I'm like, if Democrats fold, it will not be perceived that they folded because they couldn't see people in pain anymore. Poor and working class people are often made to make short term sacrifice. Like we have to make the short term decision and sacrifice to the long term needs. Right. It's the poverty tax. Right. You can't, you can't pay, you know, for the longer bulk item. You got to pay one time at a time at a time at a time at a time. And we all know that it costs more in the end. That's how they do poor folks. That's what the government shutdown is, is when we use federal workers and we use, you know, hungry people, hungry babies, you know, as a bargaining chip in the politics. I think that the problem is too much, that's too much on them, right? Because look them we can do better. Absolutely. But also people got to do better. The media has to do better. Like the media to this last week we're talking about, oh, Dems didn't vote for the SNAP to open or to fund snap when they knew full well that SNAP was already funded. They knew that it could be. They already know that Republicans been trying to cut snap, been trying to cut Medicaid. They're not fair. Which means that people then hold us to a different standard, which they should, but that we're fighting against all those things. I think the momentum is going to come from the ground right now. I think that the momentum is going to come. Hopefully the House stands their ground, but I think that momentum is going to have to come from somewhere else until Democrats earn that trust.
- [47:32]
A
Summer, do you think that it would, that it's a tough sell to make people believe that the media isn't fair to the Democrats.
- [47:40]
C
I don't think that they're unfair. First of all, I don't think that the media. I don't think it's about fair or unfair. I do think that I do have, I have personal thoughts, but I think that it's not about being fair. It's about telling the story in a way that's meaningful, I think. And I don't think it's all media. Of course not. Right. We have so much media, so many people who are. Who are hustling.
- [47:56]
A
Who are you talking about when you, when you make this. When you.
- [47:59]
C
I think about legacy media a lot. Cnn, msnbc, Fox News, of course.
- [48:04]
A
Fox News, of course.
- [48:05]
D
Yeah.
- [48:06]
C
Even when you think about Twitter, right. There was a time where you can go to Twitter and you would see news sources and it would have a verification check, and the disinformation didn't exist the way it does today. The disinformation is rampant. So, yeah, that's media, right? That's. That's information that's getting out that people consume and that is not trustworthy to people. I think that even when we talk about the Dems versus the R's, because Democrats are not, hopefully, in a cult, because we are not like, you know, we are like our whole standard, our standard is liberation. Right. Our state of. Our standard of freedom. Our standard is equity. So when that's their standard, you gonna hold Republicans and Democrats, you know, to a different standard. But Republicans don't have no standard at all. The problem is with the, with this is right. When the media goes, well, the Democrats didn't vote on this without giving the fuller context. Well, Republicans have been trying to shut this down. They've been trying to cut this. They cut it before. They just made the largest cuts to Medicaid and SNAP in history. You didn't hear that with this. You heard Republic. Democrats wouldn't vote to open the government. So, yeah, we are working against, you know, really powerful factors that influence the way that people perceive the fight. And I think that's just objectively true. I think that the media also knows what his role is in a democracy, but doesn't quite know what it is in a failing democracy. And we are in one of those right now, which means that they haven't figured out how to deal with Trump. They give him airtime all day. All day. They post without any commentary the things he says, and it gets to people before any analysis gets to them. Yeah, I think that that happens now. Whether that's on purpose or not is a different story, but it does happen.
- [49:48]
B
It's possible that another shutdown could be upon us at the beginning of next year. What do you think that Democrats should do?
- [49:59]
C
I doubt it.
- [50:00]
A
Yeah. They can't do it again.
- [50:04]
B
I don't think so either. But I'm Just like, what do you think?
- [50:08]
A
Just.
- [50:08]
B
Just voting. Yeah.
- [50:10]
C
So.
- [50:11]
B
And I guess that kind of goes to my point because they did what they did this last time. Have they lost that completely when it comes to this? Because they went 40 days, they really did not gain anything with all of this. When it comes to the next one, have they just lost that power?
- [50:29]
C
What do you think? No, I mean, I'm actually really honest about that, you know, because, you know, you are the. I mean, I'm a voter, too, but y' all are voters. Like, how do you feel like that would be a responsible thing to do? Can we justify it? The question is, is. Is it 100% necessary? I felt that the last shutdown was 100% necessary.
- [50:49]
A
So I'll tell you what. I think a couple of things. The first thing is I think that there is still the ability to make this shutdown useful. Now, as part of this. This. These eight have said that they've been promised a vote on the ACA subsidies in early December. All right, maybe that's bullshit, but let me tell you why that vote is important. And let me tell you what I feel like Rachel and I's responsibility is. No, the vote is important. Okay? And. And I'll just tell you guys right now, if you are right now making $15,000 a year, you are on, basically, you are on what's called the subsidy cliff, which means that the money that the AC that will be there through the subsidies essentially means if you don't get that money, you're not going to have any health care. So between 100% and 400% of the federal poverty line is where these subsidies come on. The people at the 400% are going to be strained when these subsidies go up. The people at the 100% right there, or people that make a little bit more of that and have more people in their household, they're going to straight lose coverage. They're going to. They're going to straight lose their health care. Okay? Between now and this phantom vote that may or may not happen, it's very important for the Democrats to make the case that this right here is not just about cost. This is about cost and stressing and straining people, but it's also about whether or not Americans will have health care. And if the Republicans either have this vote and don't vote to extend these subsidies or don't take this vote up, they are immiserating people. We're talking about maybe 20 million people affected by the loss of their health care or changes in it that make it completely inexpensive where they can't even do that, and put gas in their cars. They have to be able to make that case and have to politically be able to assign blame for that. And one thing that the, the shutdown did do was Front street, that issue. Now, whether or not the Democrats are able to do that is one thing. But I know who does have to do it. Rachel Lindsay and Van Lathan on higher learning. Every single outlet where people list that people listen to that might be affected by that. We have to remember that, political machinations aside, there are people right now that in January and February are going to have to make decisions about how they take their kids to the doctor if in fact, this $50 billion doesn't come in for them. That's the case.
- [53:33]
C
And that's why I need this to stay right. We need the conversation to stay there, because that's real. At the end of the day, however you feel about how, how long, whether the shutdown ended too soon. The fight was about people's health care. And the Republicans 100% own this. I think that even if Thune is it. Is it Thune? Even if Thune gives them this vote.
- [53:57]
A
Yes, Thune. Thune is the Senate Democrat and his.
- [54:00]
C
Mike gives them the vote. We have to remember that they would not have given that but for the pressure that they received throughout this shutdown, given us this. But for Democrats and our allies and our coalition partners and our unions and all of those people who work in coalition with us. Have we not been out organizing around this, outputting this on front? Right. That was real meaningful work. And that is the type of way that we are going to have to approach everything from now on. Nothing is going to come easy. We will have to do the work ourselves. We will have to bring information to our people. We will have to go and get them. We will have to meet them where they are. We will have to bring them to polls. We will have to make. We will have feed them sometimes, right? Because Republicans do not wish well for us. They do not wish for people to have fair choices. They don't wish for people to be okay. They were okay with these federal workers not eating or paying their bills. They were okay. Not recipients, not being able to afford food. That's what they want.
- [55:04]
B
I agree the vote is important. This is my fear. Let me just say I totally feel like the vote, because before they weren't even agreeing to a vote. Now they're agreeing to a vote. We have no idea whether that will happen, what that will look like. Whatever it's my understanding that whatever Chuck Schumer had proposed, it was only extending the tax credits by one year. Is that right?
- [55:29]
A
Yeah.
- [55:30]
C
So that was the compromise.
- [55:32]
B
The fear, I guess I have is 40 days. Nothing was accomplished except the fact that the Democrats held out. People have not been able to feed their families, have not been paid, can't have to figure out how to pay their bills. All of that which can look bad depending on the messaging that it's the Democrats fault because that's coming from the Republicans. It's the Democrats fault this happened. Republicans agree to have this vote. They vote and they extend it for a year and that gets them to the midterms and then they do it all over again. That's the fear that I have, is that, do you understand what I'm saying? Like that they'll make themselves look good. Tell me why you're not worried about it. Because to me it's like, oh, they'll do just enough to make themselves look good to stay in public favor, to have people say, oh, it's the Republicans who are saving us and not the Democrats. Tell me why you're not afraid of that.
- [56:26]
C
Because I care more about people having healthcare than some bums looking good for another lady.
- [56:29]
B
Obviously.
- [56:34]
C
That we are doing the work. Like, listen again, when somebody shows you who they are, believe them. This 40 days was not in vain because this was the only way that we would have had a concentrated eye on healthcare. A concentrated eye on not just this budget process, but the last one back in July with the one big bill. Right. We weren't getting that. The amount of people who mobilized and organized around getting out information, I know it sounds like very little. Getting out information is half of the battle. There are so few people who because of their day to day struggles, their day to day lives and battles, they're not always able to even access the information to say, hey, warning, this is happening to you. Hey, warning, this is who did it to you. It's now on us to carry this on. Right? It's like, listen, the shutdown served a purpose to remind the country what Republicans are willing to do to keep you from basic necessities. That is important. If we drop the ball now, that ain't just on Dems, that's on everybody. So when I think about whose responsibility is it now? Yeah, Dems hold the baton. Maybe we're the ankle leg, maybe we're the first leg, however you look at it. But at some point there are other people in the relay with us and we need them to Continuously and just consistently nail the Republicans. Don't let people forget who Republicans are. Don't let them forget that they made the largest cuts to Medicaid in history in July. Don't let them forget that they've been trying to cut mothers and babies off of SNAP benefits for years. Don't let them forget that. Don't let them forget that we have the power to do that and this gave us something to channel that into. We keep it going, but at the end of the day, when the primaries come, the people who are going to be most impacted by health care are going to have a full resume that they get to read of both parties. It won't just be this, though. This will be a part of it. They will also see all the other things that we've done. And I promise you, these Republicans are going to do terrible things from today and November. They can't help it.
- [58:35]
A
One more question about the Democrats, and I want to ask you something more specifically to your own journey. Isn't it true that the Democrats fail to message adequately because they're just too fucking old? Every time you see someone. I looked at the eight that held out, and these were some Happy Days watchers. This was Richie Cunningham, their favorite shows, Laverne and Shirley. They were probably really into mash. And it seems as if right now we need some people who grew up on Martin. We need some living single viewers, maybe even perhaps a friend's viewer during the time that the show was on. You know, maybe later on, somebody that was into my wife and kids. We need a different version of Democrat that is more virile. I'm talking. I'm 45. I'm talking about, like, not too much north of that. I could maybe go to 55. I can maybe go to a Cheers watcher. Right. But right now, your whole party, these are some Dick Van Dyke show motherfuckers. And Summer, it's got to change. You were talking about cultism earlier on, but I have to be honest with you. Earlier you said this was a party that was. Could be beholden to incumbency, it could be beholden to corporations. It seems like that has the makings of a cult as well.
- [60:03]
C
True. It does. It does. Absolutely. And you see that just in, like, the just aggressive questioning that progressives get, especially, like, progressive black folks when there's a progressive black folk in the wild. Somebody's. We got to prove every day that we voted for some Democratic candidate that we never said anything about. We always have to do that. That boat blew. No matter who mentality, which is a thing. We don't even have to get into that because the real question is about messengers. I think the age thing. Listen, I am not somebody who doesn't believe that old folks shouldn't be in office. I want to say one of my favorite congresspeople, Ms. Bonnie Watson Coleman just announced that she won't be running next year. And Ms. Bonnie Watson, forgive me, Ms. Bonnie ain't a spring chicken, right? She's not a spring chicken, but she was fierce. She's fierce, she's progressive. When it came from everything to the genocide to black liberation, you know, reparation, all that, Ms. Bonnie wasn't just like somebody who was like, signing. You know, she was there on the front. And that's cool. I like that. I know young people who are feckless, and we're not getting that. So I don't want us to just replace age older people with younger people. I want people with fire. That's why I said credible messengers. It's not about just your age. How many people in the Democratic Caucus have ever lived a working, poor life? I look around and I said this to the Black Caucus once. I was like, listen, even amongst the Black Caucus, we got folks here in the Black Caucus who are now generational congresspeople. We got Nepo babies in the Black Caucus. Like, that's the black dream. It might not be the black dream, but that's somebody's dream from the 60s that we had nipple baby congress people, right? It's not about to make fun of it, though. But it is to say that they are far removed from the actual struggle. I say, for me, I used to always, every time we get polling that says, oh, these people felt this way and these people felt this way, I'm like, I knew that because I talked to non voters, too. I talk to non voters every day because I got people in my life who are skeptical of the system. I have people in my life who hold beliefs that, like, it doesn't matter who is in power. Like, their life is going to be their life. And they're not wrong. Their material conditions haven't changed. Whether with Bill Clinton or Barack Obama or Bush or Trump, those parts are true. They know something about the system that people who are heavy in the system don't know, and people who are heavy in the system know something about the system that those folk don't know. Both of those things can be true. But a credible messenger knows how to bridge those divides, right? A credible messenger knows how to take that message. Not just to the barbershop on election day. Right? They know how to take it in and out. Like they know how to do it every day. Because we are them. We are them. We're not just something that kind of rests above that. The Democratic Party has to make that fundamental shift, and they will not do it if every day somebody young and hungry and connected. Connected is pushed aside as too radical, too socialist, too brown, too this, too pro, too anti genocide. Right. Those are the things that are depressing voters because they're like, well, we are trying to participate now. And every time they try to participate, some establishment. The establishment comes and says, not like that and not unless we say so. And that's having a real effect on people's morale, on people's ability to fight back now that we need the most in an authoritarian government. And there's nobody to blame but us for that part. Not us. I don't do that.
- [63:30]
D
But.
- [63:33]
B
Yeah, we just saw that in New York. And beyond. And beyond. I mentioned this earlier, but some of the work that you're doing. I want to talk about that. You and Ro Khanna have pushed a bill forward to remove dark money from politics to abolish the super PACs. Can you talk a little bit about the work that you're doing? We've had Ro Khan on the show as well. But talk about. Because that's a topic of conversation on this podcast quite a bit.
- [63:58]
C
This is bad.
- [63:59]
B
Can you talk? Yeah. Can you talk about.
- [64:01]
C
The conversation boils down today, right? That's money and politics. What God are we serving? Right? When I talk about how expensive it is to run on the grassroots level, how expensive it is to be a congressperson, every year it just exponentially increases, Right? You know, when I ran, I had my big super PAC, APAC. You know, they they spent like what, 4 or 5 million against me. I'm a working class black woman from Braddock, pa. Right? Where do people like us get that type of money? You know, that shuts. That shuts a lot of people out of politics in the first place. Because for the party, you know, it's like, how much money can you raise? How much money do you have access to? And not just raise for yourself. They we supposed to raise for other people. And I'm over here trying to survive, right? Then it's like all of the issues that we care about, the root is money and politics. If you care about environmental justice or stopping kids from being gunned down with weapons of army war in their schools, if you care about pharmaceuticals and health care, all These issues have popular support. The majority of Americans know we have a climate crisis and the oil and gas industry is mighty in Congress. Right. Everybody believes that we shouldn't have access to assault rifles to continue doing this. And the nra, it looms as a shadow. The majority of people in this country believe that we should not support genocide anywhere, Saddam, Palestine, wherever. And yet Congress never aligns. That's the money in politics part. People are able to bypass system. You can give me a max. There's a max that you can give me, but there is no max that a millionaire can give to their own pact they created themselves. And we have to get that. You cannot have a democracy in this system where wealthy people can spend anything to influence elections. So what this bill does is just say a super PAC is limited, just like everybody else. You have the same contribution limits that any other PAC does. You do not get to do a pass around which would effectively ban. Abolish super PACs. But we also have to end Citizens United. We also have to tighten up our election laws. We talked about, you know, Zoram and Donnie. Well, you know, he was successful for a couple reasons. They had ranked choice voting, which eliminates the spoiler alert, the spoiler effect. They also had, you know, public matching funds on top of contribution limits which allow, you know, young upstart not, you know, traditionally wealthy candidates to compete. So both, all those different systematic changes help more people who are actually connected and rooted actually compete in this system. That's how you have a world democracy.
- [66:44]
A
Mamdani is a part of. I'm assuming you're a Mamdani fan to a degree at least. I'm assuming maybe. Yeah. Yeah. He was a member of the Democratic Socialists of America, the dsa. You were. And then you left. Why?
- [67:01]
C
I was endorsed by the dsa.
- [67:02]
A
Endorsed by the dsa.
- [67:04]
C
I was endorsed by the DSA because I worked my ass off. And we deserve that endorsement. But no, you know what? When it comes to the coalitions we made, especially this is when I first ran in like 2018, I was new nobody. And we really worked to build just a movement here in Western Pennsylvania. Like we're going up against these incumbents. DSA was one of the organizations that was really, you know, actually got bold enough to say we should support the candidates who are running against some of these incumbents. A lot of people were not doing that. Labor unions, some of them, at best, would stay neutral. I had one union endorsement my first race. That's it. So to see people who had the vision to say that actually, we all say we want younger people, but we need people to support them. We need people to knock some doors for them. We need people to be around us as we're like building platforms. So, yeah, they were an important part of that, but so were a lot of other people. You know, a lot of our environmental folks organizations, our black movement organizations were heavy in our race. And we together formed a coalition that lasted and did some real good things. And there are still people, you know, who are doing that here in Washington, Pennsylvania. And I see that they do it in New York and all these other places. For me, when it comes to the organizations that I am a part of, I am a part of that many organizations. But for me, I believe relentlessly in a race class analysis. And I am relentlessly trying to give permission, people to people to adopt that, to recognize that we're not equal even in class struggle, and that there'd be no two ways around race. And I'm not saying them specifically, but I'm saying that's what I look for in my orgs.
- [68:48]
A
So I'll stay there. Because we had a conversation last week, or maybe it was last week, maybe two weeks ago, about Graham Platner and about how sometimes the progressive wing of the party, which I like to think of myself as progressive, sometimes there is what I feel like a certain cavalier attitude as it relates to race. Like we see Graham Platner right now, there's all kinds of stuff in his history. There's this range in the spectrum of things that are distasteful to things that are actually concerning. And because he is a progressive. And there is a sort of. How can I put it, A de. Essentializing of race in the progressive movement. And, you know, it's more oriented around class, which is fantastic. It allows you to build a big and broad coalition. But sometimes in that, though, what you have is people that refuse to speak to the direct experience and needs of black people. In this particular case, with Graham Plattner, I need to see him talk to somebody black. I need to see him sit down with somebody black and go, yo, I'm cool. I'm safe. Let me show you what I was going through. At least have the conversation. I don't see that happening. And I wonder if our friends, cohorts and comrades in the progressive wing of the left don't understand sometimes what black people need. It seems like you just indicated maybe a feeling like that, and perhaps you could expound it.
- [70:27]
C
I don't have a feeling like that.
- [70:27]
A
Yeah.
- [70:28]
C
And this is somebody again, I have deep respect for our comrades, whether they be in the DSA or outside it. You know, just progressives who came into electoral politics through Bernie or through me, whether whoever it be, there's a deep respect there. And there's also. With that respect also comes an accountability that we have to strive to be better versions of what we oppose. When I think about just black folks, man, a lot of people don't know black people. They don't know black people. They don't live those. That's the part about lived experience, how important lived experience really is. You know, a lot of people poo poo terms like intersectionality. But intersectionality is why, as a black woman, I could talk about environmental racism and environmental justice and climate action in ways that is more expansive than somebody who only comes at it from the climate action piece. Right? It's the reason why, as a black woman, it's a poor black woman who went to a public school where we had, you know, some of the highest numbers in the country of funneling kids in the school to prison pipeline, punishing black kids. Like, I can talk about those things in that way because I've lived it. And if I. And what I haven't lived explicitly, there are folks around me who have lived it. Right? There are people around me who I can take into counsel. Right? Because again, who you bring onto your teams, your counsel, your advisors, that matters too. And I think that too infrequently do we hold ourselves to the standard that we actually should strive to have a more diverse thing. Too often I hear on the left is like, oh, we don't do identity politics. I'm like, but I have an identity. I was just talking last week to know some more folks on the left, and I was just like, but my blackness informs so much. It informs a lot. It's how I built my politics around it. Growing up black and poor and woman in the Mon Valley, that shapes me in ways that I think is really important to politics. And when we don't allow space to understand how that is an expertise in and of itself, when we don't allow that to be considered a qualification, then we are actually limiting our own potential. So that's why I do think it's important that we actually listen. Solidarity is not a left to right thing. It's actually top down. You got to be in solidarity with people who are more marginalized than you. Otherwise, we're like, we're asking people to be quiet. We're asking them to contribute to something. There's no justice in that black people need justice, black people, indigenous folks, need justice so that they can be their full selves in movement. If we are still struggling against the system and we're struggling against individuals within it, how can we dedicate our full selves to eradicating the things that we're trying to eradicate? We can't. And people aren't recognizing that. And the conversation is not getting any better.
- [73:11]
B
Outside of the shutdown. I feel like a lot of. And this is just holding the party accountable because we want to see them do better. We want better for us as a people, as a community. We constantly are critical of what some of the things that we see with the Democrats or in government in general. But what are the positives? Like, what's something. What's something positive that you see the party doing that you're proud of?
- [73:36]
C
I mean, the party, I mean, first of all, off top, the people who I know who I am, who I work with, who are Democrats, are also the people who are speaking truth to power. They are. We are trying to end genocides. We're trying to end racial injustice and policing and the criminal legal reform system. We are fighting.
- [73:59]
A
You feel like the Democrats are trying to end genocide?
- [74:02]
C
I am and I am a Democrat. That's why I said the people who I work with caveat. Well, you know what? No, I will say my Democrats, my.
- [74:13]
A
Democrats are trying to end the election.
- [74:16]
B
To talk about that. There are people, there are people in the party who are.
- [74:21]
C
If it's 10 of us or if it's 200 of us, we're right out on. No, no, no, no. As the party as a whole. Listen, man, we are not the people who are trying to cut snap. We are not the people who are trying to cut Medicaid. I do think that is important. I think that when we look at people in pain, we actually, we feel it. And that's a good sign. It's actually a good sign that you have people in elected office who could not bear to see their constituents in pain. That's good because I don't think the other side feels that way at all. At all. So I like that. But other than that, I will say it's hard to answer that honestly because of the big tent. Because even when I did say with my sectors, you know, it is always negated by that there are other people who don't agree with it. That's the nature of a big ten party.
- [75:12]
A
Last question for me. I want to ask you about one specific politician that is not on your side of the Aisle. Marjorie Taylor King, the new incarnation. She is fighting for everyone. She's fighting for everyone. She's march on Washington.
- [75:29]
C
Marjorie Taylor King to Georgia.
- [75:31]
A
Yeah, she rolling the train. She changed. Now, listen, I say this tongue in cheek, because I am here for everybody's awakening. I'm here for everybody's awakening. Everybody's movement to the left and understanding what people need and everybody's, hey, guess what? I was not right on this. What do you make of Marjorie Taylor King, Abernathy? Like what? What do you think of her political awakening and the fact that it seems now she's really ready to break with the people that made her and become something new, something that, you know, I mean, whatever. What do you think of this? What do you think?
- [76:18]
C
I think again, my baseline standard. When people show you who they are, believe them, you have to do a lot more. I would like to see to book who I would rather her be. Marjorie Taylor X. To quote Malcolm X, he says, you know, if. If someone stabbed you in the back, progress isn't pulling the knife out six inches. If you stabbed you nine inches.
- [76:43]
A
Right.
- [76:43]
C
He said, progress isn't pulling it all the way out. Progress is healing the wound that you caused in the first place. So she has a. A long way to go to healing wounds that she actively caused. So whether this, you know, trans, this personal, spiritual, political transformation is authentic, whether it lasts, will all depend on what steps she takes to negate the harms that she caused. So I want to see those things. So I wouldn't be giving her my money yet. I am not expecting her to stage any sort of any coup on Maga yet, but we'll see. It seems like. I hear she's a little bit scorned. You know, she wants something, they didn't give it to her. Now, she's loyal. Hey, if she wants to prove me wrong, I welcome it. I believe in opt ins. We need more people. Liberation, the side of liberation, needs more people. So I believe an opt in is not opt out, but an opt in isn't just like a free pass. It's not like a get out of jail free pass. Like, you still got to get time.
- [77:43]
B
Agreed? Agreed.
- [77:45]
A
Yeah. Rachel, she could literally. There's nothing she could do for nothing anyone can do for her.
- [77:52]
C
Are you donating to Marjorie Taylor King now?
- [77:54]
A
Who, me?
- [77:55]
C
Either one of y'.
- [77:56]
A
All. Nah, I'm not like. I like.
- [77:58]
C
I know Rachel Wayne, that's your face.
- [77:59]
A
I mean, I like anyone that annoys them. I like to watch it. Right. Mtk Marjorie Taylor King out there Annoying people. I never buy it.
- [78:10]
B
You gotta stop disrespecting me.
- [78:12]
E
But it's good.
- [78:12]
C
No, but listen, I love. We need them to be in chaos.
- [78:16]
A
Yeah, that I like that. That, That I like. So, you know, just like the epine.
- [78:21]
C
Fouls, when their base was like for the first time, put a red line on them. People always ask us, well, what can we do? You can put a parameter on them. With the little Epstein files. They put a parameter on them. Like Trump thought that he would be able to just do it, say whatever, and they didn't stop thinking about it. And then, and then Marjorie and all these other people had to start to be a little bit more responsive. We like the chaos.
- [78:41]
A
Yeah.
- [78:41]
C
We like to have some pressure. They should have pressure.
- [78:44]
B
Speaking of the fcs, I'm for the chaos, but like, stop coming over here.
- [78:49]
C
Just.
- [78:49]
B
I want her to be loud. I want her to be chaotic. I want her to do all of that. Don't. Yeah, don't. Don't come over here.
- [78:56]
C
That's what I always tell the race warriors. I'm like, you don't got to come over here. Go be uncomfortable in your space and I'll be uncomfortable in mine.
- [79:05]
A
Speaking of Epstein files, government's open. Swear in and get it done. I know Rose all over that.
- [79:12]
C
Yeah, that's Rose Bill. God bless Rose Bill. It is a good one. We need it. And I think that the discharge petition is. First of all, we clearly were not in Congress because that man did not want that discharge petition to come out.
- [79:25]
A
Right.
- [79:26]
C
The thing about it is that the discharge petition gives us the not just appearance, but the reality of a majoritarian view. It says that even in a Republican majority, that the majority of people in this body want this to happen. It gives you a little bit more credibility and legitimacy. And. But also the reality is, is that my subpoena is also. Is already legally binding. The DOJ is already compelled to turn over the full unredacted fouls of Epstein and his crimes and everyone who's involved. They have been stalling. Right? They've been stalling. And of course, the government shutdown was yet another excuse for them to slow walk it. But they are. They're actually already compelled to do it with this. Like the discharge petition is asking for them to release a typical body to the House. Our subpoena is actually a quicker way of doing it because with the discharge petition, again, we need. Is the way that we do things. When you get 218, the tradition is the custom is. Is that that comes to a Floor vote.
- [80:31]
A
Right.
- [80:31]
C
It is the way that even in a minority, you have the right to work to get something to the floor. And the speaker should honor that. That will still need to go to the Senate and to the White House. We all know that Donald Trump ain't signing it.
- [80:44]
A
Right, right, right, right, right, right, right.
- [80:46]
C
So we want that, we want to put pressure on that, and Roe has been leading that with Tom Massey. But we also, as an electorate, need to put that pressure that my subpoena is legally binding. And we want to see those files because they are already due us.
- [81:01]
A
You're absolutely right. You do. Passing in the House. You just want to put the position. You want to put the Senate and the President in a position to say no so that people know who's protecting.
- [81:13]
C
And to show the country, like, look, this is Dems and Republicans.
- [81:16]
A
Right.
- [81:17]
C
This isn't just a subpoena that passed through, like in our case. Right. A small subcommittee. This had the full force of the whole body. The whole body wants this. So that is really important.
- [81:28]
A
Summer Lee, thank you. Oh, you got another question, Rach?
- [81:31]
B
No, I was just gonna say, before we let you go, tell us what else it is that you're working on, what you want us to be paying attention to, all the things where people can follow you, support you and everything that you're doing.
- [81:41]
C
Thank you. No, I think we touched. You know, we gotta get the, you know, we gotta take care of our people. We gotta make sure that, you know, we're up to the fight for authoritarianism every day. You know, that's not going to take place just in the government, but in there, we will be doing it, too. You know, this money and politics thing is major. I think that just everybody who feels like government doesn't meet their needs, this is one of the big impediments for it. So we want to just shop on the mountaintops. How our government actually works, it's important people got to know how things work so that we can end it, so that we can change it. So that's why we've been focusing just relentlessly on this money and politics. And we'll be still, you know, fighting to get these fouls. That's what we have. That's what we have coming up. But let's, let's see what happens today with the vote.
- [82:27]
A
All right, we'll see. Summer Lee, thank you for joining us on Higher Learning.
- [82:29]
B
Thank you.
- [82:30]
C
Thanks for having me.
- [82:31]
A
Great conversation. All right. I thought she was fantastic. Thought she was great.
- [82:35]
B
Oh, she was great. We'll have to have her on. Like, she gets me excited. It's like. That's why I asked her the question about, like, give me something positive about the Democrats. Because it's like, I want to hear. Oh, shut up, Van. I want to hear. I know that she's from a small group, not all. It's not the majority, but I like to hear that there's unity with them, and I like to hear what they're doing, and there's something positive that I can get down with.
- [83:00]
A
I like the young peoples of the Democrats. Maxwell Frost, Summer Lee. You know, I like the new voices that are coming out there for the Democrats. I'm fucking with it. One of those new voices, Donnie.
- [83:16]
D
Yeah. According to Axios, James Talarico, the Texas Democrat running for Senate, who has put.
- [83:23]
C
His faith at the forefront of his campaign.
- [83:25]
D
According to Axios, he follows several adult film performers, escorts, and only fan models on Instagram. Bam. Have at it.
- [83:36]
B
This could not have been a. More like. When Van. When you saw this story, I want to know what your thoughts were. I wanted to know what you felt, because this is a story that only you can fully be like. This resonates with you so deeply.
- [83:57]
A
True.
- [83:58]
B
I saw it, and I said, van, Van's gonna have a field day with this one.
- [84:02]
A
I immediately donated to him. Yeah, yeah, James. I could see it by the way. I saw it.
- [84:12]
B
No, you didn't.
- [84:14]
A
I saw it, man. I looked. James came on here to talk, and I looked at James, and I was like, this nigga Jack's off. I could tell. I looked at it. I was like, goon. The Goonies, right? The Goonies was a group of kids that went looking for One Eyed Willie. And the Goonies is also a lot of people that spend a lot of time with they. One Eyed Willie. It's two different things in the same situation that's popping. That's going on with the James Talarico situation. Let me tell you something. He follows 10 accounts. It said OnlyFans, models, all kinds of stuff. A page called S or whatever, dating porn star dot com. Some shit that this. There's some shit on here that I didn't even know about. Tell y' all something right now. We not canceling nobody for jacking off. That time is out. People, people, they put this out, okay? They put this out like we was gonna cancel James Talarico.
- [85:11]
B
They did.
- [85:11]
A
They put this out like we was gonna look at this and was gonna be like, oh, my God, this is too much. We ain't canceling nobody for jacking off. No that time is over. We fully and adamantly support the jack off. James Tallarico, you are a bright, young, shining star of the Democratic Party. And if you want to campaign all day in Texas and then come back to a hotel room in the privacy of your hotel room, coconut oil. One part olive oil. A slick solution is what it's called. James, if you want to be a part of getting to know yourself, we support you. We're not canceling nobody for jacking off. As a matter of fact, James, you need to be the president. We jacking off all the way to the White House. It starts here. It starts today. I am livid that they try to smear this man with everything that's going on with all of these other people. That's killing people in the Caribbean, that's kidnapping people on the streets, that's taking away people's rights, like starving people. You think we about to cancel somebody for jacking off?
- [86:20]
B
Okay, Van.
- [86:26]
A
We laugh at you.
- [86:27]
B
We laugh at you, Van. It should be noted that his team has come out and they have said that James has never subscribed to OnlyFans or an escort service. While James was unaware of how these women make money, he does not judge them for it and will not play into an effort to smear them for clickbait articles. That's exactly what his Christian faith calls them to do. And that's what I thought when I saw this. I say, y' all tried it. But now, this might work on some people, right, who want to act like they're above it all, but then are secretly, you know, as we've seen in other situations, right? Oh, I'm above it all. I condemn this. I condemn that. Yet then it comes out that you're having threesomes or you might be doing things that are inappropriate with underage women. Like, yes, they always try to act holier than thou, right? This is why I appreciate James. When I saw this, I said, and James continues to be a man of the people. And that's all I thought. If you really study things biblically, if you really study the faith, Jesus surrounded himself with everybody, okay? I'm not saying he's Jesus.
- [87:37]
A
I thought you were about to say something else.
- [87:39]
B
What did you think I was saying?
- [87:40]
A
I thought she was about to say Jesus was jacking off. I was about to say, take it too far.
- [87:43]
B
You have said. You have gone to the point. No, that's. You don't make.
- [87:50]
C
It.
- [87:51]
B
You've also accused James of that which James is not. James follows these people. You have basically said, Just because you follow these people, then that means that. Which I'm not going to put that on James Tallarico.
- [88:03]
A
You don't follow the spurs unless you like a little basketball, baby. All right? The reality is, like, don't you. You want to make it. You know, you know what this is? This is you making it about this.
- [88:11]
B
I'm not going to say. No, I'm not going to say something that I don't know is true. What I said. Those were your thoughts. My thoughts were, this is a man of the people. He's not going to not follow somebody just because they have a particular profession. That's not what the faith calls you to do. That's not what Jesus would have done. And I'm like, james continues to walk in the path of righteousness.
- [88:35]
A
Hey, that's what I'm talking about. I thought you was. I did think he was going somewhere else. I was like, I missed that passage in the Bible, but I wonder if that would it been. So Jesus was completely without sin. Right. He never sinned. Is that's so he never sinned.
- [88:50]
B
I guess he did, yes. And he rolled with prostitutes and social and like all like, this is what I'm saying. So you put things on James that. I'm not ready to say all of that. But what I will say is I say, of course James doesn't. James doesn't discriminate just because you might do that because you want to use the Christian faith as a weapon against things you dislike. James isn't going to do that.
- [89:14]
A
Guess what we doing, James? I hope you can hear our voices, or at least my voice. I'm fucking with you more now. I'm fucking with you now more than ever. Ever. I've never been able to vote for someone that was like me. Okay? I've never been able to vote for someone who understands James. And now I might move to Texas just so I can cast a vote and then move back, because that's what the fuck I'm talking about. I looked at this and I'm like. I looked at this and I'm like, you know what?
- [89:51]
B
I knew you were thrilled.
- [89:52]
A
No, it's the. How dare you smear. How dare you smear. This is not someone that, like, held purity over somebody or something like that. He never did that. That's not what he did. He never did that. How dare you try to smear our beloved James Talarico. Never, ever. Ok? Never. Not going to happen. Not going to fucking happen. All right? So I watched this. They say that James didn't know that's a bullshit lie. But what I will say is, like, with everything that's happening right now, I hope. I hope, hope that there are not people on the right out there in Texas that look. I mean, Donald Trump, of course they are like, no, it just. You can't. I. It better not happen. Better not touch James and let James. Don't touch James. Let James touch himself. Move on. Oh, okay, Donnie, we gotta talk about the King of Pop.
- [90:59]
D
Let's do it. Lionsgate released the highly anticipated trailer to the movie Michael, the biopic that is coming out soon. It broke records for biopic views, youtubes. You guys saw it. What were your thoughts?
- [91:16]
B
What were your thoughts, Donnie?
- [91:18]
C
I'm a Michael Jackson because I know that Van.
- [91:21]
B
Okay. I know we're super fans, but I'm. I'm like, you. Are you a super fan? And what. What were your thoughts when you saw it?
- [91:28]
D
Yeah, I would say I am, too. I'm looking forward to seeing Jafar Jackson play his uncle. That sounds like. Sounds like they got the right person. I've heard audio of him singing and speaking, and he seems like the right person.
- [91:42]
A
The thing about the trailer that I.
- [91:44]
D
Didn'T love, the nose looks a little weird. It looks like a prosthetic nose. I know. It is a prosthetic nose. I know, but I shouldn't look at it and be like, that's a prosthetic nose. That was the first thing I thought when I saw that. But, yeah, I'm looking forward to it.
- [92:04]
B
I've heard a lot of people complain about the nose, but is that just because our generation was so used to seeing Michael without that nose?
- [92:15]
D
I don't think that's my point of view. I've seen Michael, lots of Michael, all different stages of his life. And if you look the side by side, the nose doesn't really look like. I mean, it's early.
- [92:26]
B
It's a trailer, but it's similar. No, it's more similar to his nose as the Scarecrow from the Wiz than it is to his nose in real life.
- [92:34]
D
Yep. Another prosthetic nose.
- [92:37]
A
Yeah. Do you know what? Oh, the Supreme Court just let you know. News in. The Supreme Court has denied Kim Davis's petition to overturn its landmark decision about same sex marriage. Same sex marriage. So, yeah, okay, great. Shout out to the community. We fucking with y'.
- [92:58]
C
All.
- [92:59]
A
They came for y' all and they fucking lost. All right? We going to the Pink Pony Club, motherfucker. You can't fuck with the community, man. Try to fuck with Our people. You don't fuck with my sister. You don't fuck with our people. It's a coalition. And tonight I will go to the Pink Pony Club and I will dance because we. Yeah, exactly. Exactly, Rach. Just like that.
- [93:22]
B
No, that's what she does in the. In the. That's what she does. She performs.
- [93:25]
C
Oh, oh, wait.
- [93:26]
A
So wait a second. She's performing at the Pink. I've never seen the video. So she performs at the Pink Pony.
- [93:31]
B
Club because she says, I've seen the live performance. I don't know, I haven't seen the video. But when she did the live performance, that's what she was doing.
- [93:37]
A
Is the song about her performing at the Pink Pony Club or dancing at the Pink Pony Club? Is she. Is she going to the Pink Pony Club to have fun or is she. No, I think she says, I'm on the stage at the Pink Pony Club. She's performing for them. The Pink Pony Club. Anyway, shout out to them. They can't fuck with the community. We're not letting them take us down because the community is us. We're all in solidarity. Fuck you. All right, I have two things to say about this Michael trailer number one, I am surprised at the seriousness of this movie. Not surprised. Well, what I mean is that this seems like an Avatar. This seems like an actual dramatic, high quality look at Michael Jackson's life. And I gotta be honest with you, a lot of the biopics that we get that are about black singers that we've been getting recently, it's been some bullshit. I'm not gonna fuck with you. It's been some real bullshit. And I'm not.
- [94:40]
B
Who have we, Bob Marley?
- [94:42]
A
Like, I'm just. What I'm saying is you don't want to name them. You get movies that are about. I don't want to take away from any other filmmakers. If there's one thing I do not want to do, I'm not going to stop being friends with my friends. Y' all can get mad at me for having friends and having brothers in this shit. I'm not going to do that. People that I fuck with, I get mad. Whatever. We talked about that before. But I'm also not going to talk down on these other filmmakers that's trying to make these terrible black musician biopics. These movies that have been coming out, they've been bad, okay? They've been bad. And they've been making some of our black musical legends look terrible in the movies. Not calling out any movies because everybody wants to make their movie. And nobody's trying to make a bad movie. I look at this film and it looks. I mean, it's got Antoine Fuqua directing it. Incredible talent. The movie looks like a serious, artistically elevated look into Michael Jackson's life. Now, I do have questions. How much of Michael Jackson's life will be looked at in this movie in, I guess, an objective way. There's things about Michael Jackson's life that are overwhelmingly worthy of praise and really legendary things that he did. Right. But then there are things that are incredibly controversial, bordering on disgusting allegations about Michael Jackson. We have to talk about the fact that that type of stuff is around Michael. And if you were to make a movie and you didn't investigate and explore that stuff, it would be just like Straight out of Compton. Not addressing or exploring the violent domestic past of Dr. Dream. And if we are going to make these movies, I know that there are all kinds of films out there that gloss over people and give the shiniest version of them. If you're gonna make these movies and it's gonna be about somebody's life, I personally think that we should be able to have films that both celebrate these artists for what we know of them and what we love about them, but also investigate some of the parts of them that weren't so glossy, awesome and amazing.
- [97:00]
B
Yeah, I don't think that's what's gonna happen here. That's my understanding. The families behind this one. I think I've read that Katherine Jackson gave her approval about how much her grandson, I guess, great. Yeah. Grandson embodies Michael in this. It seems like they're involved with it, so I feel like it might be mentioned, but not. They're not gonna fully delve into it. Very similar to what we got with the two Aretha movies. One was the family was behind the one with Jennifer Hudson. And the one with Cynthia Erivo was a lot more detailed about some of the darker moments of Aretha's life that the family didn't approve. So I think that it'll be more of a commercial kind of thing, like we did. Like I said, with the Jennifer Hudson movie, I'm looking this. Okay. In my opinion, nothing will ever top Jackson 5. American Dream, the TV series. It's just. And maybe it was when it came out, I just. I know that movie word for word. It was just everything. And rest in peace to the child actor who played Marlon, who passed away recently, like, a few weeks ago.
- [98:10]
A
Big up to Jason Weaver, a fucking legend. How about that? How about Jason Weaver?
- [98:14]
B
Yes. I used to Have a big crush on Josh.
- [98:16]
A
How about, Jason Weaver is a fucking legend. Jason Weaver, been giving it up since 1990. 1991. Simba the Shy. Every time you bring up something, I'mma remember people that we got legends right now that's living and breathing, and Jason Weaver is one of them. Give it up. Clap for Jason Weaver.
- [98:32]
B
Yeah, love Jason Weaver. But drum line N. When this is it came out, I could not. I never watched it. I couldn't bring myself to watch it. Obviously, that really was Michael. It was more of a documentary. I just was too emotional to be able to watch that movie. But when this trailer came out, it made me feel not like the American dream movie, but it just made me feel like this is something I really want to go out and watch and support. I got past the nose, Donnie. I noted it. I got past that. I just was. It made me a little excited. I was like, okay. When we were talking about it, because we've been talking about this before and how the movie's been pushed back. I was kind of like another Michael movie. Another Michael movie. But still seeing it. I am now like, okay. And the trailer didn't even give us that much because we know, like, Colman Domingo's in this. Nia Long is in this. Who else? Several great actors are in this. Miles Teller. Several great actors are in this movie. But this made me. Made me happy.
- [99:35]
A
Yeah. Made you happy. The music in there. Jafar Jackson looks like he's got the moves and all that stuff. There's a Michael Jordan. Michael Jordan. There's a Michael Jackson story out that I would love to do as a movie, but it's more. So the story of how Michael Jackson got the Beatles catalog is a whirlwind story. It's actually a story that you could write and produce to where Michael Jackson is not even in the movie. You just kind of see him almost like they did air, where you don't actually see Michael Jordan. Like, the story of how Michael Jackson actually got the Beatles catalog and ATV and all of that stuff. Like, that story of just business and the savvy of Michael Jackson is just such a fantastic and interesting story. Also, like, why Michael Jackson had to go down and do concerts in Australia, like, every year. All of that's a part of it. Like, it. All of that stuff would be.
- [100:31]
B
You should tell that story.
- [100:32]
A
It's a fucking awesome story. Something else about this that was interesting. I feel like I got a new op.
- [100:40]
B
Who, man? And maybe not an op, okay.
- [100:48]
A
Because I don't know this man, but There was something that I saw a while ago that got on my nerves, and now it's gone even further. So some time ago, there was a video of a Michael Jackson impersonator. This guy's name is Fabio Jackson. And he was walking around what looked like Las Vegas, and he stopped to watch another Michael Jackson impersonator dance.
- [101:16]
C
Toddy put it up.
- [101:17]
A
And he stopped as if he was Michael Jackson.
- [101:21]
C
It's my favorite.
- [101:22]
B
He crosses his arms.
- [101:24]
A
Yeah.
- [101:24]
B
He nods his head in approval.
- [101:27]
A
It's the way Michael Jackson would look at someone else. That was being Michael Jackson. And I watched it. At first I laughed, and then I was like, yo, this. This motherfucker feels like he's Michael Jackson 100%. Now, this guy, Fabio Jackson, he watched the trailer to the Michael movie. And we're gonna put it in right now. Oh, daddy. And him watching the trailer. Donnie, you could run it actually without any audio. Him watching the trailer. If you look at it right now, he looks annoyed. He looks none too pleased at what he sees as. The only thing I can believe is he looks at it as the story of him. What are they doing to his life story? He's looking at. You could tell he's pissed off. He doesn't like what he says when he's watching the Michael Jackson trailer.
- [102:23]
B
Is he pissed off? He seems displeased, right? He seems like, no. Like it's not up to par. Like, this isn't the way he would have done it. I mean, he's really.
- [102:35]
C
Look at him.
- [102:37]
A
Look.
- [102:38]
B
He's a case study, to be honest with you.
- [102:40]
A
And by the way, he did this just so we could see that he wasn't fucking with it.
- [102:45]
B
No. A hundred percent. But it's almost as if when he's taking it in, he's like, well, when I was on the stage in 1983 and did the Moonwalker for the first time. You know what I mean? Like, that's like the thought almost that's going through his mind as he's watching. Like, well, that's not how it really happened when I was there.
- [103:01]
A
That's not how Quincy sounded. Quincy. That's not how Quincy looked. Quincy didn't say your feet. That's not what he said. That's not. He's looking as if he was there with Quincy and Quincy didn't give it up. Right. He also came back and he described. Because people got on his ass about this, right? People were like, yo, what are you doing between. Relax with you taking over as if you're Michael. And then he responded Donnie play his response to people criticizing his response to the trailer.
- [103:33]
E
Exactly. I didn't say anything. So this is about my reaction to the Michael biopic. And it kind of seems surprising to me that so many people didn't know who was going to play the main role. I knew this two years ago, and. And so did everybody. Like, if you didn't know, then you were living under a rock. It's hard to say anything at the present moment because all we got was glimpses, all we got was silhouettes. All we got was short shots, you know, and all we got was bouquet effect, you know, it's not enough to say anything, but I will be saying nets. The best part, as you saw, my reaction, was when I heard the voice. When I heard it, then that's when it became real to me. And it was like, whoa, something could be very potential here. And it was when Jafar said, q, can you turn down the lights, please? That was the best part, I thought. And then you can see my reaction. I'm sorry. If I don't react like your character.
- [104:52]
A
I can't do it. So Fabio was born in Portugal. He moved to London at 10, and he became a Michael Jackson impersonator. Obviously, you can look at him and see that maybe he's had some work done to look more like Michael Jackson. Look, bruh, this is so indicative of the time that we live in, man. It is so. This is such a contemporary thing. We don't have no actual Michael Jacksons. All we have are people who think they Michael Jackson. That is we. That is so spot on. No Tupacs, just people that feel like they Tupac. Like, no. No MLKs. Just people doing the MLK voice. Nigga, you not Michael Jackson, bro. What's wrong with you, dog? Like, what? What's gotten into y'? All? Y' all crazy, man. Bro, you not Michael Jackson, bro. What gives you. Why? That's actually Michael Jackson's nephew.
- [105:53]
C
For real?
- [105:53]
A
That's playing Michael Jackson.
- [105:55]
C
If.
- [105:55]
A
If this was Miles Frost. If y' all don't know who Miles Frost is. Miles Frost played Michael Jackson on Broadway. I met him at the Brooklyn Chop House. He was introduced to me by Dapper Dan. This is a true story. Like, I met him at the Brooklyn Chop House in New York back in the day. Watch him. He the man. He the man on Broadway. Michael Jackson. Let's say Miles Frost looked at Michael and was like, I would have done this different. I will respect it coming for him because of the heights he's reached playing Michael Jackson. Fabio Jackson I can't respect what you got going on, bro. I can't respect it, dog. I can't respect you doing this, man.
- [106:35]
B
No, because have you seen him dance?
- [106:39]
A
Nah, he can't wait. Nah, fuck that shit.
- [106:42]
C
And I'm not even.
- [106:42]
B
And I'm not even doing a diss. He actually cannot dance.
- [106:46]
A
No, no, no, no.
- [106:47]
B
Go to his Instagram or YouTube. Go look it up. Can't dance. Pretty sure. I'm pretty sure. He can't signal. This is the reality. So, like, as somebody said in the comments.
- [106:59]
D
Let me see.
- [107:00]
A
He doing a little. Not even seeing.
- [107:03]
B
Keep going.
- [107:04]
A
He flipping the jacket. Flip the jacket. Flip the jacket. Flip the jacket. Fabio. Fabio, flip that motherfucking jacks. Oh, oh, I'm mama.
- [107:10]
B
This nigga to flip the fucking dance.
- [107:12]
A
Hold on, let's see. That looked all right. Let's see. Now he doing. I'm not gonna lie, this nigga do look like Michael Jackson, though.
- [107:18]
B
He looks just like Michael Jackson now.
- [107:20]
A
He'S doing the Thriller, man. Fabio, hit that tick. Oh. Oh, shit. Don't.
- [107:24]
B
Fabio, he can't dance. Oh, fuck him up, Fabio, he can't dance. There's no.
- [107:31]
A
Oh, Fabio, fuck him up. There you go, Fabio, fuck him up. Oh, man, have I changed. Nah, no, Fabio ain't got it.
- [107:44]
B
Somebody said Shooter.
- [107:46]
A
Lethal. I'm a fuck you up. Hold on for. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Liked by Lethal Shooter. Lethal Shooter. My guy, Chris. I'mma fuck you up if you keep egging on. Fabio, you better. You better stop shooting that spiked basketball goals and get back on cold. Lethal Shooter. I'mma fuck you up. Chris. That's my man. Lethal Shooter. A great guy. Liked by Lethal Shooter. Creep. For you fucking with the Thriller shit. Fabio Jackson, bro. I don't know what to say, Rachel. You say he can't dance.
- [108:22]
B
He can't dance.
- [108:23]
D
Hold on.
- [108:23]
A
Donnie, put this in. Make sure we put this in the show. I want to get what the people think. Because maybe the people look at Fabio Jackson shit and think he can fuck around with the different shit, man.
- [108:31]
B
As somebody said in one of the comments, shut the fuck up. You're never going to be Michael. And that's really what it comes down to. That's really what it comes down to.
- [108:43]
A
Fabio. Oh, my Lord.
- [108:45]
C
What he does look like. But he does look like.
- [108:48]
A
He do look like him, though. I'm not gonna over Fabio. Fabio posting about Charlie Kirk Day.
- [108:56]
B
Let's go.
- [108:57]
C
No, he continues to disappoint this Fabio bruh.
- [109:02]
A
Lethal Shooter. How could you?
- [109:06]
B
How could you say is It Fabio or Fabio?
- [109:08]
C
Because you keep going back and forth.
- [109:09]
D
You don't think.
- [109:10]
A
Is it Fabio or Fabio?
- [109:11]
C
I don't know.
- [109:13]
B
Yeah, I don't know.
- [109:14]
A
You guys, we fucking with the Michael movie. I would love to have Fabio. Fabio.
- [109:20]
B
Absolutely not.
- [109:21]
A
On the show. I wanna. I could do that shit.
- [109:25]
B
Absolutely not. You could do what?
- [109:27]
A
I could do.
- [109:29]
B
What are you doing?
- [109:32]
E
Oh.
- [109:35]
C
Oh, my gosh.
- [109:40]
B
You're doing the Back Streets back.
- [109:42]
A
Wait, that's not. They don't do that on Thriller. They don't do that. They don't. Wait. What I do.
- [109:49]
B
Back Streets Back.
- [109:50]
A
Oh, that's that cold too.
- [109:53]
C
Am I sexual?
- [109:56]
A
Am I sexual? I never understood the question part of it.
- [110:01]
C
Am I sexual?
- [110:04]
A
And then you say. Have you said yes to that before?
- [110:06]
D
Yeah.
- [110:06]
A
You said yeah, when they asked that. You think they sexual? Yeah.
- [110:09]
B
I'm sick of the song. Do I? I'm sick of the song.
- [110:11]
A
But when they ask, am I sexual? And you say, yeah.
- [110:15]
B
Yeah.
- [110:16]
A
Which one? Which one? I want you before we go real quick. Cause we gotta go rate the Backstreet Boys in. Rate them in sexual. Cause they say amisexual and you agree, so rate them as sexual. Who's sexual? Sexual to non sexual.
- [110:32]
B
Okay. Kevin.
- [110:33]
A
Donnie, as she does this, put the faces up. Kevin, number one. Sexual.
- [110:40]
B
Number two. Kevin, three. Kevin, four. Kevin, can you just.
- [110:44]
A
Can you fucking do the thing?
- [110:46]
B
There's nobody else. There's nobody else. It is just Kevin.
- [110:51]
A
Can I tell you something?
- [110:51]
B
It's just Kevin.
- [110:53]
A
Kevin looks like somebody.
- [110:56]
B
No, he doesn't.
- [110:57]
A
Take your team caps off and do not stop learning. He looks like so. All right, nigga, take your team caps off, but do not stop learning. I AM Van Lathan Jr. He does.
- [111:07]
B
I'm Rachel Lynn Lindsey. As if there was a. If there was a black choice.
- [111:12]
C
Bye, guys.
- [111:14]
B
It.