Higher Learning with Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay

Episode: The N-Word at the BAFTAs, Producing R. Kelly, and Gavin Newsom Backlash: Fair or Unfair?
Date: February 24, 2026
Podcast Host: The Ringer

Episode Overview

In this candid episode, Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay tackle some of the most provocative current issues intersecting Black culture, politics, and entertainment. Key topics include the controversy at the BAFTA Awards surrounding the use of the N-word by a Tourette syndrome activist, Teddy Riley’s proposed collaboration with R. Kelly, Gavin Newsom’s attempt at relatability resulting in online backlash, and a deep dive into masculinity and economic status via a viral Scott Galloway clip. The co-hosts bring their signature mix of humor, personal insight, and hard-hitting social commentary.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Studio Banter and Setting

(00:00–05:00)

• Van and Rachel introduce the new Spotify studio and riff on their different gym experiences and the exclusivity of influencer “creator spaces.”
• Lively banter about gym elitism sets a playful, tongue-in-cheek tone for the episode.
• Quote:
  • “But only being able to go some places, some place because they say that you could come is crazy.” – Van (04:43)

2. Viral Animal Story: “Punch” the Monkey

(05:04–09:02)

• Rachel brings up “Punch,” a neglected monkey who has become an internet symbol of resilience and longing for love.
• Emotional response connects to themes of rejection and communal empathy, relating the monkey’s longing to personal stories of her own rescued dogs.
• Van and Rachel agree on the uplifting message and the broader human resonance.
• Quote:
  • “I just feel like they're looking at this little monkey. And they're like, it's about resilience. It's about wanting love, connection, a hug.” – Rachel (06:29)

3. BAFTAs Controversy: The N-Word and Tourette’s

(10:24–35:51)

• Donnie introduces the incident: John Davidson, with a rare form of Tourette’s, shouted racial slurs (including the N-word) during the ceremony attended by Michael B. Jordan and Delroy Lindo.
• The co-hosts untangle the complexity: balancing understanding of neurological disability with the psychological violence and history behind the word.
• Rachel initially suspects a publicity stunt, then re-examines after research into Tourette’s and its manifestations.
• The conversation focuses on institutional responsibility and the failure of BAFTA to adequately protect Black artists.
• Both hosts challenge the minimization of Black pain by organizations and broader society.
• Memorable Quotes & Timestamps:
  • “I just feel like at fault. They weren’t protected in all of this and I feel like that was the main problem.” – Rachel (15:44)
  • “You have to make space for that at the expense of your humanity. Normally, it's the other way around... But if I dress up in Versace, Louis Vuitton... and somebody gets to scream [the N-word] at me... I'm just letting you know that that might not be possible.” – Van (18:39)
  • “Black people aren’t calling John Davidson racist… But the word he said is racism. Black people are allowed to feel a certain way about that.” – Rachel (21:58)
• Both argue for sincere, robust apologies instead of lukewarm corporate statements, and push back against white people dictating Black responses to harm.
• Van offers sociocultural context: the historical weight of the N-word, the impossibility of disassociating it from its roots in dehumanization and white supremacy.
  • “There's man, there's woman, and then there's nigger. And we've talked about this. Nigger is neither man nor woman. Nigger is thing. Nigger is not person. Nigger is bought, nigger is sold, nigger is beaten. That is nigger.” – Van (25:14)
• Both compare: If other slurs had been used, repercussions would have been harsher.

4. Teddy Riley, R. Kelly, and Cultural Memory

(35:51–56:35)

• Teddy Riley faces backlash after supporting the idea of releasing R. Kelly’s prison-recorded albums.
• Van breaks down the generational divide in the music industry about giving “second chances” to problematic icons, contrasting past indifference with today's accountability culture.
  • “If you go back and you look at, like, James Brown's Wikipedia, it's crazy... they used to forget that stuff. It used to be that you could move on from terrible things and you can't do it as easy anymore.” – Van (39:40)
• Rachel refuses to accept "second chance" rhetoric regarding R. Kelly’s repeated abuses, exhaustively listing the allegations and charges he has faced.
  • “We are like our 50th chance when it comes with R. Kelly... That is just you choosing to turn a blind eye and ignore the impact of R. Kelly, the terror of R. Kelly.” – Rachel (44:58)
• Both co-hosts express skepticism regarding Teddy Riley's apology, suggesting it was motivated by negative publicity and economic concerns—NOT genuine understanding.
• Van and Rachel stress that today’s audiences force accountability in a way that simply didn't exist in previous decades.

5. Gavin Newsom’s “960 SAT” Moment: Misfire or Malice?

(59:10–77:38)

• Recap: Gavin Newsom, during his book tour in Atlanta, tries to relate to the audience by mentioning his “960 SAT score,” sparking accusations that he was suggesting he’s “just as dumb” as Black people. The clip circulates out of context online.
• Rachel says Newsom’s phrasing was clumsy and reflects politicians’ struggle to genuinely connect, but stops short of calling it racist, emphasizing the importance of audience context.
  • “I understood what he was trying to say, but I do think... you cannot be so lazy in your way of trying to relate.” – Rachel (71:03)
• Van fact-checks: audience was majority white, and Newsom's remarks were in direct response to a question about his dyslexia. He criticizes Newsom’s “relatable” schtick as out-of-touch with the actual plight of working Americans (lack of opportunity, not intellect).
  • “I think the plight of the average American is opportunity... Those are the things that make you an average American. And those are things that Gavin Newsom cannot agree with those people in the audience on.” – Van (65:45)
• Both decry the knee-jerk outrage online and urge more nuanced assessment of political rhetoric. Van warns of the strategic use of Black grievance to generate digital pile-ons.
  • “This was a masterclass... at how I believe that the actual and real concerns of black Americans... are being whipped around in this election like never before.” – Van (67:23)
• The real slight, they conclude, lies not in the SAT anecdote but in Newsom glossing over his immense class privilege.
  • “I had a break. So what I want to break is that system.” – Van (75:55)

6. Mike Huckabee, Tucker Carlson, and Israel

(77:51–91:31)

• Van and Rachel discuss Mike Huckabee's inflammatory statement about Israel’s Biblical entitlement to land from the Nile to the Euphrates (shared during an interview with Carlson in Israel).
• Rachel isn't surprised at Huckabee's biblical literalism, noting his track record of disregarding Palestinians and referencing biblical rather than political geography.
  • “He is not just a Zionist... He refers to [the West Bank] in biblical terms. So it's not shocking to me...” – Rachel (80:29)
• Van highlights the dangerous implications of expressing support for regional domination as a US ambassador and the disintegration of diplomatic seriousness under Trumpism.
• Quote:
  • “That's the U.S. ambassador to Israel... That is an official American diplomat saying out loud on Mike that it would be okay if a country completely conquers all of its neighbors...” – Van (84:11)

7. Trump’s Attacks on Susan Rice and the Currency of Black Affiliation

(92:31–97:37)

• Rachel brings up Trump’s social media diatribe demanding Netflix fire Susan Rice (board member), labeling her "racist."
• Van analyzes Trump’s public defenses against racism accusations—collaging photos with Black celebrities as proof of non-racism—a tactic that, while superficial, exposes the underlying dynamic: the transactional relationship Black communities often have to wealth and power.
• Quote:
  • “...the reason why those guys were around... is because Donald Trump was very rich.” – Van (97:37)

8. Scott Galloway, Masculinity & Economic Status

(98:27–121:27)

• Viral clip: Professor Scott Galloway asserts that men’s value on the dating market is heavily linked to economic viability (“Beyoncé could work at McDonald’s and marry Jay Z. The opposite is not true.”)
• Rachel and Van agree that Galloway’s point reflects the lingering impact of patriarchy and gender roles in dating.
  • “Because of the system that exists... Now that it’s 2026 and women aren’t the same as they were when this system was created... I understand how the roles... might be confusing.” – Rachel (100:54)
• Van adds that powerful, wealthy men are often given the most leeway and social capital, reinforcing the same power structures.
  • “Patriarchy is wrong no matter what, who does it... the more you can pay for, the more you can decide what it is we’re going to do.” – Van (104:21)
• Rachel notes she doesn’t "feel sorry" for men affected by these shifts—“it’s a consequence” of patriarchal systems—but she empathizes and doesn’t dismiss their feelings.
  • “I wouldn’t dismiss the feeling because I do understand it exits, but I also understand why it exists.” – Rachel (122:05)
• Both discuss how attraction, gender roles, and economic viability intersect in society—debating whether being a provider or house husband can redefine "manliness" in today’s climate.
• Van gets candid about socialized masculinity, vulnerability, and hopes for more humane definitions of manhood.

Notable Memorable Moments & Quotes

• On the BAFTA incident:
  • “If Michael B. Jordan and Delroy Lindo gotta be called [the N-word] on stage at the BAFTA Awards to be good people... we need another plan.” – Van (29:07)
• On R. Kelly:
  • “You're just looking at R. Kelly and you're not considering all the people that were impacted directly... rather than trying to protect... the image that you have of R. Kelly... how about you try to protect people in our community from a predator and a monster like R. Kelly?” – Rachel (44:58)
• On Gavin Newsom:
  • “The actual slight is that Gavin Newsom is up there acting like he’s like you. Did you see Mike Huckabee..." – Van, linking Newsom’s class privilege to political posturing (77:32)
• On attraction & patriarchy:
  • “If you are happy being a house husband... that is extremely manly to me as well.” – Rachel (113:42)
  • “I wish everybody could just do what makes them happy, man.” – Van (113:42)

Important Timestamps

• 10:24 – BAFTA N-word controversy introduced
• 15:44 – Rachel on BAFTA’s failure to protect Black actors
• 25:14 – Van’s historical context on the N-word
• 35:51 – R. Kelly/Teddy Riley controversy
• 59:10 – Gavin Newsom’s 960 SAT comment
• 65:45 – Van’s critique of how politicians attempt to “relate”
• 80:29 – Rachel and Van discuss Mike Huckabee and the Middle East
• 98:27 – Scott Galloway and economic status discourse

Tone & Language

The episode balances humor and biting cultural critique, with both hosts comfortable employing direct, sometimes explicit language, particularly during emotional or historical analysis. Van’s storytelling is vivid and often improvisational; Rachel delivers earnest, research-backed rebukes without pulling punches.

Summary

This episode of Higher Learning is a tour de force in contemporary Black podcasting—articulate, irreverent, and unwilling to shy away from difficult truths. Lathan and Lindsay dissect headline-grabbing controversies with nuance and wit, consistently demanding accountability from institutions, celebrities, and political figures. The discussions are especially valuable for listeners interested in the intersection of race, pop culture, and systemic injustice.