The New Blue Wave, a Great Value Economy, and the Act of Centering Men. Plus, Talking the World Series With Jesse Blake! | Higher Learning | The Ringer

Summary

Higher Learning with Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay

Episode: The New Blue Wave, a Great Value Economy, and the Act of Centering Men. Plus, Talking the World Series With Jesse Blake!
Date: November 7, 2025

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Episode Overview

Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay dissect the political aftermath of the recent elections, the messaging war around affordability and the economy, and cultural shifts in relationships and gender dynamics. They also explore the fracturing American right, and finish with a spirited interview with Canadian sports podcaster Jesse Blake about the heartbreak of the World Series. True to form, the episode is rich with sharp humor, personal anecdotes, and fiery debates.

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Key Sections & Discussion Points

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1. Don Mattingly, "Good Luck Chuck," and Baseball Curses

(00:01 - 05:00)

• The episode kicks off with Van playfully obsessing over Don Mattingly’s Hall of Fame credentials and career "curse"—noting how teams he leaves go on to win championships.
  • Rachel reveals she only knows Mattingly because he's her friend's cousin, not through baseball itself.
  • "He's the Good Luck Chuck of baseball. Damn. That's who he is." – Rachel (03:35)
  • They ponder if teams are leveraging Mattingly’s ‘curse’ by hiring and firing him for luck.

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2. The "Blue Wave": Election Recap and the Power of Messaging

(05:32 – 15:08)

• The hosts break down major Democratic wins in recent elections:
  • New Jersey & Virginia gubernatorial races, New York mayoral race, and the significance of passing Prop 50 in California.
  • Noting that Democrats widened margins where they were expected to do well, particularly after concerns about shrinking leads under Kamala Harris.
• They debate if the bounce-back is about Kamala, the political mood, or both:
  • “I think the number in a lot of blue states, the margin had decreased... And I think that had to do with her being Black and a woman.” – Rachel (07:36)
• Van lays out how winning candidates used specific, concrete examples of affordability that resonated, especially locally (e.g., New York’s “bring halal down, $2” initiative).
  • “When you’re able to give direct specifics as to this is what’s making this $2 more expensive... then it becomes something the entire city can look at.” – Van (12:05)
• Rachel and Van agree that Democrats’ focused messaging on affordability cut through generic political posturing, contributing to their successes.

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3. Trump’s Economic Claims and "The Great Value Economy"

(15:08 – 29:50)

• Van discusses Trump's new focus on "affordability," noting how Trump has started echoing Democratic talking points—what Van dubs "dick riding Mondani’s jean watch thing” (the act of copying an original idea; humorous metaphor from a college fashion anecdote).
  • “This is a watershed moment. I’ve never seen Trump dick ride a Democrat in this direct way.” – Van (19:33)
• They critically analyze Trump’s misleading claim that Thanksgiving dinner prices are down, exposing that:
  • Walmart just reduced items in the meal bundle, shifted to more bargain “Great Value” items, and major staples like turkey are actually more expensive.
  • “Trump’s version of affordability is you having less for your family and the stuff you have being of... less value.” – Van (26:40)
• Rachel notes that the electorate is now living the reality of Trump’s economic policies and can’t be fooled with empty promises or misleading stats.

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4. Media Personalities, Endorsements, and Platform Responsibility

(34:00 – 64:05)

• Discussion of major figures (Mamdani’s mayoral win, Van Jones’s commentary, and others) and rants about the difficulty of sharing a name (Van) with Van Jones:
  • Humorous debate over who "owns" the van name, and why Van would gladly call Van Jones "Anthony Jones" (his actual name).
  • “Free me of this burden. Don’t make me start singing Sweet Lo right now. Anthony Jones, please, brother.” – Van (38:39)
• Rachel and Van critique celebrities using their platforms for personal endorsements—specifically, Lala’s support for Andrew Cuomo despite sexual misconduct allegations:
  • “Just because he’s been good to you... you’re in his tax bracket... You’re totally ignoring what he means to women.” – Rachel (48:21)
• Similar criticisms for Charlamagne, whom they argue misattributes responsibility for the government shutdown to Democrats, reflecting selective blame in political discourse.

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5. Interview: Jesse Blake and World Series Heartbreak

(66:34 – 80:59)

• Jesse Blake, a Toronto sports podcaster, grieves the Blue Jays’ heartbreaking World Series collapse.
  • “It was a lot of heartbreak. It was 10 months of buildup to that moment and 30 years, really, since we won the World Series in ‘93.” – Jesse (68:19)
• Rachel gives Jesse no quarter ("I feel nothing"), insisting heartbreak is part of the game, but Van expresses empathy, reflecting on athletic losses and sportsmanship.
• They dig into North American sports culture, the “Drake curse,” and friendly Toronto-LA rivalry.
  • “I think the Drake curse is washed. But lately he hasn’t been on the right side of things… post-Kendrick.” – Jesse (77:53)
• Segment closes with Jesse promoting his podcast and accepting the competitive banter.

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6. Civil War on the Right: Nick Fuentes, Tucker Carlson, and the Mainstreaming of Extremism

(81:13 – 104:17)

• Donnie recaps Tucker Carlson’s controversial interview with Nick Fuentes, whose openly racist and antisemitic views present a dilemma for the conservative movement.
  • Van argues that Fuentes is a “child of the Republican party,” now impossible for them to disown as his youthful far-right audience grows after Charlie Kirk’s death.
  • Rachel: “It was this whole thing of… we have no enemies on the Right… It’s a free speech thing. And now it’s gone out of hand.” (88:56)
• They highlight the political peril as key groups (Jewish conservatives, donors) are alienated by the normalization of Fuentes’s extremism.
• Van insightfully explains how issues like criticism of Israel act as a “gateway” that normalizes other, more toxic parts of Fuentes’s ideology for young conservatives.
  • “We refuse to separate actual virulent and direct antisemitism from blanket support for the government of Israel… It’s fermenting an environment for people like this to be mainstreamed.” (91:06)
• The segment notes the visible rift between GOP old guard (like Ben Shapiro) and social media firebrands—accusing established right-wing figures of only responding when bigotry affects them directly.

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7. Summer Walker, Centering Men, and the Evolution of Relationships

(104:17 – 134:03)

• Commentary on Summer Walker’s new album, the symbolism of only dating men for money, and whether to judge personal self-discovery performed in public.
  • Van’s philosophical warning: “People have to stop engaging in conversations people are having with themselves.” (106:12)
• The viral article: “Is Having a Boyfriend Embarrassing Now?” launches a debate on shifting gender norms, public versus private relationships, and the backlash against “centering” men in women’s lives.
  • “Women are way more independent, way more self-sufficient without needing a man by their side.” – Rachel (117:00)
• Van asserts that men, perhaps more than ever, need women’s perspectives and partnership personally and socially.
• Rachel describes how social media’s criticism has pressured women to share less about relationships, while both hosts recognize old gender roles are quickly fading.
• Major closing takeaway:
  • “We don’t love in tag teams… You have a responsibility for your own happiness… If you don’t let [love] get you because of something superficial, that’s on you… Be open to the happiness.” – Van (129:44 onward)

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Notable Quotes & Moments (with Timestamps)

• “He’s the Good Luck Chuck of baseball.” – Rachel (03:35)
• “When you’re able to give direct specifics… the entire city can look at [it] and go, you know what—what else is operating this way?” – Van (12:05)
• “I’ve never seen Trump dick ride a Democrat in this direct way.” – Van (19:33)
• “Trump’s version of affordability is you having less for your family and… less value.” – Van (26:40)
• “I just have an issue with people who promote things for their own benefit… You’re totally ignoring what he means to women.” – Rachel (48:21)
• “Fuentes is the baby of the Republican Party… They have to let him grow up in their house.” – Van (85:41)
• “We refuse to separate actual virulent and direct antisemitism from blanket support for… Israel… It’s fermenting an environment for people like this to be mainstreamed.” – Van (91:06)
• “Free me of this burden. Don’t make me start singing Sweet Lo right now. Anthony Jones, please, brother.” – Van, joking about Van Jones (38:39)
• “People have to stop engaging in conversations people are having with themselves.” – Van (106:12)
• “I do not believe in centering a man in my life… I won’t compromise the things I want for myself or lose myself in a relationship anymore just to have a man by my side.” – Rachel (125:10)
• “Men need women… because there are traits that women possess that men aren’t as good at… It’s pro-evolutionary.” – Van (122:17)
• “If you don’t let [love] get you because of something superficial, that’s on you… Be open to the happiness.” – Van (129:44)

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Segment Timestamps

| Time | Key Topic | |------------|----------| | 00:01-05:00 | Don Mattingly debate, baseball curses | | 05:32-15:08 | Blue wave, elections, Prop 50 | | 15:08-29:50 | Trump’s “affordability,” Great Value Economy | | 34:00-64:05 | Media influence, Van Jones, Lala, Charlamagne | | 66:34-80:59 | Jesse Blake interview, World Series heartbreak | | 81:13-104:17 | Nick Fuentes, conservative civil war | | 104:17-134:03 | Summer Walker, centering men, relationship shifts |

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Conclusion

This episode of "Higher Learning" is a sharp, wide-ranging journey through American political shifts, the evolution of public messaging, fraught gender norms, the hazards of celebrity influence, the mainstreaming of extremism, and the joys and perils of sports fandom. Van and Rachel combine humor, personal honesty, and incisive analysis, making the episode a must-listen for anyone interested in current culture, politics, and the evolving landscape of Black thought.

Transcript

[A]

Yo, yo, yo. Thought Warriors. What is up? Higher learning is on. Is I, Van Lathan Jr. And it's.

[B]

Me, Rachel, and Lindsay.

[A]

So Don Mattingly's best year that he ever had was 85, in my opinion. And in 85, it looks like Don Mattingly hit 35 homers. 104, 145 driven in.324. Although he had.343 the year before OPS. Oh, the next year, he actually had a better OPS. OPS 939. 967 the next year. I don't know if I'm not sure. At his peak, he certainly was a Hall of Famer, but I'm not sure if Donnie Baseball is a Hall of Famer or not. 2,100 hits, 222 homers, one AL MVP anyway, but maybe he should be in. Rachel, what are your thoughts?

[B]

So, for those of you listening, that's.

[A]

Why you don't know the game.

[B]

I'm just. I don't care to know the game. It is a choice. It is a choice. It's not because I can't. It's because I don't care to know a game that takes forever to play. For those of you just listening, that was a conversation that had carried on off mic that Van decided to bring onto the podcast because he is really into Don Mattingly right now. Do you know, the thing I know the most about Don Mattingly is that that is my friend's cousin, Don Mattingly. Donnie Baseball, shout out to Shannon Mattingly.

[A]

Shannon Mattingly is her name.

[B]

Mm. You thought I was lying about the cousin?

[A]

No, no, no. It's just. It's so. This is. This is what's funny to me. She's Dawn Mattingly's cousin.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

But it's funny that she also has the Mattingly name.

[B]

Why?

[A]

Because it's like, I would expect that.

[B]

Did you not meet cousins that normally have the same name?

[A]

No, no. But when the cousin is somebody famous, you normally don't see them have the same name.

[B]

Fair, Fair.

[C]

Fair.

[A]

Because she goes somewhere. Cause her last name is Matt.

[B]

You've met Shannon before.

[A]

So if you see Shannon Mattingly and you realize her last name is Mattingly, you're going to say, are you related to Don Mattingly? Because the name. I don't know.

[B]

And she's gonna say, yes, and she's.

[A]

Gonna say, that's my cousin. Like, is there first cousin, second cousin, third cousin?

[B]

I don't know if it's first or second, but I just know we. I saw her this Week. And she was like, I'm really bummed. Like, I really want my cousin to win a World Series. And I was like, mattingly's your cousin?

[A]

Oh, that's the first time you knew?

[B]

Yeah, that's how I found out.

[A]

I was like, wait a minute, Wait a minute. You knew her name was Mattingly this whole time and you didn't think to ask her if she was related to Don Mattingly?

[B]

No, baseball's not what the fuck I'm talking about. But what are you talking about? Baseball is not top of mind for me. If her name was Shannon Prescott, 100%, I would have said, oh, my God, are you related to Dak?

[A]

That is such a more generic name to ask her.

[B]

I would have said that. But baseball, I'm.

[A]

She could be related to that. She white?

[B]

She's white.

[A]

A nigga. Biracial.

[B]

So is Don white?

[A]

Don is white, white, white.

[B]

Oh, shit.

[A]

I was about to say if Don was black, I was about to start rooting for him more. Don has. He just. He can't get over the hump with the World Series. He literally is World Series cursed. He retired from the Yankees, and then the Yankees went on an unprecedented run of winning World Series, and now he left the Dodgers in. I think it was 2015. After he leaves the Dodgers, then the Dodgers go to a couple of World Series and they start winning.

[B]

So you know who he is now?

[A]

He's on the Blue Jays. And the Blue Jays can't get over the. Don Mattingly is cursed. It's a Don Mattingly cursed.

[B]

He is good luck Chuck.

[A]

Oh, he is the good luck Chuck of baseball.

[B]

He's the good luck Chuck of baseball. Damn. That's who he is.

[A]

Watch the Blue Jays win.

[B]

So the Dodgers, they gotta get rid of. Not the Dodgers. I mean, the Blue Jays got let him go. No, I mean the Blue Jays, they gotta let him go.

[A]

He stepped away from the Blue Jays. He left.

[B]

Oh, really?

[A]

That's why I was reading this, Donnie Baseball. Don Mattingly, you guys. I don't know. It happens.

[B]

What if he's like. What if people have caught onto this? And so people are like, we need Don Mattingly on our team so that we can have him here and then send him away so we can win a World Series. What if people are onto this?

[A]

You know, we're going to ask. So the nigga that we clowned is actually a really nice guy. His name is Jesse. He does a Toronto sports show. He's gonna be on the show later to confront you about your take.

[B]

Just My take?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Confront you because I have no empathy.

[A]

He's gonna confront you.

[B]

It's part of the game. That's fine.

[A]

We'll ask him about the Don Mattingly thing and how you felt when Miguel Rojas home run crept over the wall. Must have been a gutting feeling. Very tough.

[B]

We heard it.

[A]

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[B]

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[A]

All right, let's get into the show. God damn it. Donnie, you there?

[C]

I am here. There.

[A]

Let's do it. Motherfucker.

[C]

All right, let's get into some election recap stuff. Democrats score some big victories in the four major races on Tuesday night. The New York City mayoral race, which we have covered, the governor's races in New Jersey and Virginia and Prop 50 exit polling show that voters went to the polls with worries about the economy on their minds, coupled with broader discontent with the general state of the country. Right now. Thoughts on the quote unquote, blue wave.

[A]

The blue wave New York, Both governors, racists. These are in blue states. But the margins were wider than I thought they would be. Yeah, I thought that Cheryl was in a little trouble.

[B]

Well, she was initially, was she not?

[A]

The polling had this a lot closer.

[B]

Than what it ended up being when she first started. She was losing, I believe, and she won and she won big.

[A]

Important to say that New Jersey, I think was 16 points. Trump lost by in 16. Then in 20 points, I think Biden, Trump lost New Jersey by around 14. But last year, Kamala Harris only carried New Jersey by about six.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Which was making people think that maybe Jersey was creeping into the purplish situation. However, Cheryl was able to win the state by 13 points, by close to 14 points, so ended up returning the margin of the state back to the 2020 margin that Biden wanted by. Is that a Kamala thing or is that a referendum on where people are right now that the state has reverted back solidly blue?

[B]

I gotta say both. I have to say both. I mean, we know what I said about Kamala after the election, when we got lit after the election, Remember that? We gotta bring that back.

[A]

What happened?

[B]

Remember we got lit. We did a drunk episode after the election. I mean, I said it. I think the number in a lot of blue states, the margin had decreased as far as who was supporting the Democratic nominee, which was Kamala Harris in this instance. And I think that that had to do with her being black and a woman. I'm sorry, I just don't think you can separate it. I don't need to go down that dark. That hole for that. But also, I think it's. Why do you do things? You're so immature.

[A]

What? What? You just said she's a woman, and then you said, I don't need to go down that hole.

[B]

You know, I think that I can't control my facial expressions, but you're right there with me. You're right there with me. Anyways, I think also it absolutely is her message. It's where we are right now as a country. I mean, she, like Mamdani was preaching affordability. We constantly get on the demo. Yes.

[A]

She was not like this, though.

[B]

But she was talking about create more of like a Kamala message. Right? Like, I want to open up the programs for housing so more people can get their foot in the door. I want people. So it was more of. I don't know what to couch it, but it was more. It wasn't as maybe strong as Mandani, but it was the same thing. She wants to lower utility costs so people can afford, you know, to pay their electric bills. She wants people to be able to afford to live. It was on those lines. She used the word affordability, like momdani. So I think that that message resonates with a lot of people. And we talk a lot, and we'll get into it. We talk a lot about the Democrats in their messaging. But the messaging seemed to be on point with the Democrats that won in this election, and it really resonated with the voters. Unlike the messaging that we saw in 2024 with Trump. It was working. And they've lost sight of all of that or really just lied to Everybody but lost sight of all of that in 2025. So the messaging was clear and it's working.

[A]

Hmm. We'll get into Prop 50. This is what I'll say. I think that both Trump and Kamala Harris talked generally about bringing prices down. Right? They talked. And I'm sure that the term affordability was used. I think, though, that Mandani, first of all, these are two completely different burdens. And when I say burdens, I mean burdens to make your case. One is talking specifically about affordability in a city, which is a way that you can be very specific about the things that need to be done to make affordability happen. For example, we've talked about the bring halal down, halal down, $2 thing. Mandani goes onto the streets and he talks to vendors that have halal cards, and he's speaking to them. He's talking about the reason why they have to charge $10 for something that could be $8. The. Because they're having trouble getting permits. They having trouble getting permits, which means that they then have to actually make use of somebody else's permit, which they have to charge. They have to pay an exorbitant amount to use somebody else's permit. They're getting killed on that, which means in order to be profitable, they have to raise the cost of it. Meanwhile, if they could just. If the red tape and all of the shit in the middle, the bureaucracy in the middle wasn't so robust, they could pay a much cheaper price for their permits if they could actually get them, and then they could give the service for cheaper. When you're able to give direct specifics as to this is what's making this $2 more expensive, let me tell you. It then becomes something that the entire city can look at and go, you know what. What else is operating this way? So that is something that is wholly different than what a president would have to do. Now, there's still things you could do on the federal level to preach directly into what is making things cost more for people. I do not think that that has been the ministry of really either party. I think it's been a much more generic and sort of amorphous conversation with, around lowering prices, like, okay, Trump, how are we going to. How are we going to lower prices? We're going to drill. We're going to drill, baby drill. We're going to drill, baby, drill. And once we drill, baby, drill, the energy prices will lower. And when the energy prices lower, everything else gets low as well. Well, I mean, that's a lie. Right. Because during the Biden administration, we were drilling more than we ever had, producing more oil than we ever had, and we saw inflation under the administration, supply chain issues all over the world, resorting from the recovery from the pandemic. I say all that to say that, like, there was two reasons why Maudani's message of affordability cut through. One was because he was able to give direct and substantive examples on a local city level that contributed to affordability in a lot of cases. Not in all cases, but in a lot of cases.

[B]

Sure, sure.

[A]

And there is a culture that is prevalent in New York. New York being a playground for the rich, all of these huge companies there, the relationship between the working class and the rich. Billionaire New Yorker. It's very specific. So the message cuts through a lot easier.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

However, I do think he was on that from A to Z the entire time.

[B]

He was.

[A]

And I don't know that there was a candidate last year running for federal office that was on it like that.

[B]

No, I just don't think that there was no. I mean, he was literally going to people. I mean, it's the grassroots marketing of it all. He was going to people. He was listening to exactly what they were saying that they wanted, and he was addressing it. That's it. You don't really see it like that. They talk above you. Not they get on your level and talk to you. And that was the difference.

[A]

Prop 50 passed.

[C]

Oh, my God.

[B]

Yeah. Did you vote?

[A]

I did vote.

[B]

Good.

[A]

I vote. We walked up to the school we normally vote at. School's closed for voting. They had to walk to the Beverly Hills. You did?

[B]

Election day. Yeah, yeah. That's why.

[A]

Then you. Then you walk to the Beverly Hills City Hall.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Vote there. Bing, bing, bing, bing.

[B]

I like to vote in person on election day.

[A]

That's what I do. I go in there. That's how I do it. Bing, bing.

[B]

What is that?

[A]

That's the bing, bing. That's. If I wouldn't have shown up to vote, it wouldn't have passed.

[B]

You're rolling with that.

[A]

Yeah, that's very true. Saw a lot of people there. There was a lot of people that were like, van, van, Van, you're so inspirational. And now we. And now we're gonna call our friends, get everybody out there. And now that we see you doing it, now we're gonna do it. Yay, Van.

[B]

Wow. Really? On one this morning.

[A]

It's facts. I did my civic duty and it mattered.

[B]

And you're not gonna tell me that it should matter. It should matter.

[A]

I feel proud.

[B]

I just didn't realize it mattered to so many other people.

[A]

Passed. And that's a resounding win for Governor.

[B]

Newsom sets him up right where he wants to be.

[A]

We didn't talk about it that much, but had it not passed, it probably would have been pretty crippling for Gavin.

[B]

It would have been devastating. And I think that that's probably one of the reasons, among others, why he has not yet said that he's going to run in 2028. He needed this. What he's doing is working.

[A]

And now we've seen West Moore be a lot more direct as far as the fact that he's looking at a redistricting situation as well. And there are now going to be all different types of political maneuvers and machinations as the Republicans and Democrats fight for national power. Trump melted down and it's continued to melt. And he's done something I've never seen him do before, which is dick ride.

[B]

Not on a person.

[A]

I've seen Trump do a little bit of dick riding, right? You see him dick ride Putin a little bit, right. But I've never, ever, ever seen Trump do this. He's never dick rided a Democrat.

[B]

Who is he Dick riding Mamdani or is he dick riding Mamdani or is he dick riding Mumdani's concepts, strategy, words.

[A]

Quick story. Okay, we know it's not gonna be quick and I apologize to the audience and everybody that's listening.

[B]

Okay, go on.

[A]

Quick story. So there was these two niggas at Southern University. I forget their names now.

[B]

Let's name them.

[A]

I can't remember their names. Okay, Bert and Ernie, maybe they were. Let's call them Bertnerie. But in like 99. And if you can remember these guys names, if you were on the yard in 2000. 99. 2001. But we had like two fashion niggas. We had a lot of fly guys that dressed up. It was pretty Wednesdays on the yard. So you on the yard. Pretty Wednesdays was when you dress up. All right? So everybody would dress up and be on the yard.

[B]

It was cool what you wear.

[A]

I used to be in there. I used to get the little. I had my little. My little flesh shoes with a little buckle across of them. I would go to Dillard's, get my little shit. I would be up there. Pretty Wednesdays. You had to be in the yard on Wednesdays. Everybody was there. Pretty Wednesdays. But there were two guys on Southern's campus that were. They were legitimate fashion niggas.

[B]

Every day was pretty Wednesdays they were dressing okay.

[A]

And sometimes it would be shit that we wouldn't think to wear or we would think the shit was kind of out there. It's like this one dude would wear a spongebob squarepants with some distressed jeans, and he was really pushing the limits of fashion. I'm not talking about a pressed down polo or a dress shirt shit that we thought was fly. These guys were pushing the limit. So one of these dudes one time took part of his jeans, and he ripped off the part of the jeans at the bottom, and he made a little bracelet. Well, he took the jean and. And he made two slits, and he put his watch. And he had, like, the denim around the thing, okay? And I'm not gonna lie for niggas that like to dress like Ian and Geno in them. Their minds were blown. They were like, oh, my God. Cause it looked fly. Like he had the jean and the watch. He had done a craft creative. Yeah, he had done. And you can't go to, like, dealers and get that.

[B]

Okay?

[A]

That's the next level of being a fashionist.

[B]

It's a trendsetter.

[A]

I'm not gonna say who can I guess I'm not gonna say who, but somebody we know then took a part of their jeans, put it through the watch, and did the same thing.

[B]

Geno.

[A]

It wasn't Geno. It wasn't Geno. It wasn't Geno. This is my thing. Even though this person was close to us, we was forced to call out the dick riding. Because it's not just that you went and got a fly watch. You took his exact motion, the shit that he was doing, putting the watch in the jean, and you did the same thing. That's some shit that you hadn't thought of. The next man thought of it went like this. Then you took it, and you did the same thing with the watch in the jean. This is what Trump is doing. Trump took Mondani's jean watch thing, and he's doing the same thing now. It's all about Versace. You copy my style action. And what I'm saying is, will it might it be good for America? Sure, it could be. But I have never seen. This is a watershed moment. I've never seen Trump dick ride a Democrat in this direct way. Now, Mike Johnson, he's probably done some dick riding in his day. All of these people that I'm seeing come out and get right on the horse and dick ride. And this shows. This is fundamental. This is fundamental. Normally, in the history of Trump, People have followed him. People now say fake news. Gavin Newsom, for all of the rabble rousing he was doing on X, that's following Trump. Trump is normally the trendsetter in these situations, but I've never seen him, particularly with a domestic Democrat, a dd. I've never seen him ride a wave. This is the first time and I find it interesting.

[B]

It is interesting. Sorry, Geno, that I called you out. Wasn't Gino, I don't think. Yeah, no, that's what I said. I'm sorry. I don't think that that situation is dick riding, though.

[A]

What situation? With the what?

[B]

Yeah, like they saw something he liked.

[A]

You know, it's like, whoa.

[B]

I guess I don't consider fashion like dick riding. Let me give you an example of something that happened to me in college. My cousin and I, we went to Texas. We went down to Baylor. We used to go down to Baylor. Cause Baylor had a homecoming and we used to have a good old time. A lot of my homeboys from Dallas played at Baylor. We went down to Baylor and we met this guy and in the group of friends and he had like this back tattoo, right? Had his name, big letters on the back tattoo, was muscular. And we were like, what? Wow. I don't know why. We were just like, that is so attractive. We hadn't seen anything like that come back to Texas. I was dating somebody and we're talking about it. Probably wrong of me, but we're talking about it, right? We're talking about like this guy that we saw with this back tattoo. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Within the week, the guy I was talking to had the same back tattoo. That is Dick Wright.

[A]

That nigga.

[B]

That. That is dick riding.

[A]

That nigga. Pathetic.

[B]

Okay?

[A]

That. That nigga that you was dating. This says so much. That nigga that you was dating.

[B]

I don't want to.

[A]

It's pathetic.

[B]

Maybe I shouldn't have thought this.

[A]

Whatever. I don't give a fuck if he watching this. Bro, please, bro, stand up.

[B]

I think he learned to regret it.

[A]

He. That's pathetic. Change his body.

[B]

We were like, that is extreme. Like, if he had done the slit watch with the jean wrap, I would have been like, okay. But a permanent. Like, I mean, he got his own on another guy. It's just my fault.

[A]

First of all, it is that his girl saw on another guy and he went and got it.

[B]

That's great, bro. It's tattoos. Like, I thought that was such a cool tattoo, you know? I wasn't like talking about how Fine. He was. I was like, this is a cool tattoo. My cousin was. But then he got the same tattoo. Nah.

[A]

That is the ultimate football player.

[B]

He was affordable.

[A]

They both were cte. Big time. Big time. Cte.

[B]

That's what it is. But you were right. To your point, I can see Trump saying. Even though Trump used the word affordability, which is. Which. To your point. Very interesting. I can totally see him saying. But I did this first. I just talked about the economy. I talked about the economy. I talked about how I ran on a platform of. I could just see it. I could see the switcheroo. I ran on a platform. I of. I was going to fix Biden's terrible economy. I was going to lower prices, I was going to lower inflation. I was going to do all these things so that you could afford to live in this country without using the word.

[D]

Watch.

[A]

She's going to say this using my lingo. Okay? You using my lingo. Affordability. Affordability. Affordability. I'm telling you, you're right. This is a watershed moment to me. I'll say something else, by the way, I couldn't disagree more with the. With the pants and the cutout jean thing. I mean, it's not like a hanging offense, but it is like, that's something direct. That's ingenuity. The worst thing to dick ride is ingenuity. If somebody has a jacket and you go get the jacket, somebody has shoes and you go get the shoes. If somebody does a move, you get the movement. Maybe there's levels to it. But if the worst thing to dick ride is an original idea that somebody else had, somebody else did something original, and then you go do something, them jackets is mass produced. Them jeans is mass produced, the shoes are mass produced. But if somebody builds a thing and then you build the exact same thing, that's a dick ride. And I feel like here Trump is using the intellectual technology of Mandani and the messaging itself.

[B]

You're right.

[A]

To try to get this. Something else about this real quick. Um, Trump said that the party needs to talk more about affordability. And then he tweeted something. He tweeted, Walmart just announced that prices for Thanksgiving dinner is now down 25% since sleepy crooked Joe Biden in 2024. Affordability is a Republican stronghold. Hopefully, Republicans will use this irrefutable fact now. Irrefutable fact. This is so interesting to me about Donald Trump because he also. I watched him talk speak. Yesterday. He was out in Miami speaking, and he said this exact same thing. He said, you Know, Walmart just reported to us that the Thanksgiving dinner that they package is down. You guys, Trump has a great value economy. That's what it is. It's great value. It's a great value economy. And let me explain to you what I mean. So he uses the fact that this Walmart Thanksgiving meal is cheaper, but he's assuming that you're too stupid to be at all inquisitive about how it's cheaper. So Walmart puts this Thanksgiving dinner together, this is what you should buy for Thanksgiving, and they recommend this, people put it together as a package to go get the whole thing. Trump said it's down 20%. It's lower than it was last year. Here's the thing. One, Walmart put less items on the Thanksgiving dinner this year. Last year was like 29. This year it's 20. Less food for your family, less stuff. Right. And a higher percentage of the stuff that's on this Thanksgiving meal. Now we're talking about pie crust, we're talking about whipped cream, we're talking about all the stuff that you use to make your probably Trump pumpkin pie, but your sweet potato pies and all of this stuff like that. All of this stuff. There's less of that stuff. And a higher percentage of the stuff is the Walmart great value bargain brand stuff. There was some of that stuff on it last year, but this year there's more of the items that are on there. So Trump's version of affordability is you having less for your family and the stuff that you have being of, I guess, as it relates to Walmart's grocery stuff, less value. Right. But if you pay attention to the individual items that are on this list, what is the big item for a Thanksgiving?

[B]

Well, turkey.

[A]

Turkey. Oh my God. Bernard likes turkey. Bernard works with us here on Higher learning Now. Bernard likes turkey. Last year your Turkey was about 88 cents a pound. This year your turkey is about 97 cents a pound. Your turkey is more expensive. The fundamental of your Thanksgiving dinner is more expensive. But this is the basis of Donald Trump's great value economy. The basis of it is your incuriousness. It's authority. It's the fact that the President can say something and that it will be true and that you will not at all do any of the work to actually interrogate whether or not what he is saying is fact or not.

[B]

So great point. What I will say to that is I think that you're so right about people not being curious enough to find out for themselves whether or not what he's saying is true. But the lie, if anything this election day has shown me as well, in addition to everything we talked about, is that the lies are now catching up with him. So when he ran in 2024, he could say all these things, right? I'm gonna fix the economy, I'm gonna lower inflation, I'm going to lower prices. You're gonna be able to afford your groceries. He's saying particularly exactly which groceries were going to items were going to be lowered. He could do all these things, right? He wasn't in office yet. Now he's in office. The lies that you have been telling you are catching up with you. So what you were banking on of people not being educated enough, of people not being curious enough, that worked. Now they are living within your administration, under your economy. They don't have to be curious. They're living it right. They go to the grocery store, they remember that that turkey cost a lot less last year. Now it costs more. You can't lie to them in the same way. And they're responding to the lies by voting in the way that they are. They watch you give all these tax breaks. They watched you build this big beautiful bill for people who are not situated in the same way that they are lying to them that that money and these breaks that you're giving them will trickle down to them. And now they're losing. And you said all that, right? Tax breaks definitely happen for the rich. What happened to them? They lost their health. Their possibly health insurance is going to go up. They're losing their Medicare, their Medicaid. They can't afford housing, childcare is an issue. They can't afford groceries, Gas is up. All of these things are happening. They're living it. So to your point, you're right, the curiosity doesn't even matter anymore because they're living under your administration and they're completely impacted by it. So it's like Trump. He has to talk about affordability at this point. He has to try to change his message because what he was preaching before isn't working because the reality isn't matching the message.

[A]

Absolutely. And this is why it's important for as much success as the Democrats had this past Tuesday. And it wasn't just those big mayoral races. It wasn't just what happened with the special election here in California. It was breaking a super majority in Mississippi for the first time in a long time. It was statewide races in Atlanta. It was the demographics of who voted, how they came out, how young people voted, how young women voted, how young men voted things that the Republicans felt like they were making such inroads with. And what you saw, at least on Tuesday, was an erosion of a lot of that stuff. Right, but this is why the anyone who's going to be a successful political figure has to be laser focused on the specifics of these issues. There was something that happened during the Biden administration where there was almost a similar refrain at times from people who were expressing concern about the prices of things, talking about the economy that they were actually living in and living with. And during that time you would hear people, a lot of people on the left, a lot of left media, sometimes higher learning, the podcast, talk about other indicators of the economy that maybe weren't reflective of what people were going through in their day to day lives. I hope that as we have learned that lesson that everybody else has learned that lesson, how to speak directly to people about prices that they are experiencing, about job loss, wage growth that they are experiencing or not experiencing. Because the same magic trick that a lot of people on the left tried to pull last year, the Republicans are trying to pull it this year. The only difference is one thing. They voted on it. They voted on it. They voted on it. Along with immigration, along with racism, along with xenophobia, along with all the other things. They voted on it. They voted on it. And they thought you had a plan to address this and change this. And that plan didn't have anything to do with tariffs, making the supply chain issues worse, or having a trade war with China, or building AI data centers as large as Manhattan as he's bragging about. Is Trump reading the fucking news? Why would you brag about building AI data centers as large as Manhattan? Who wants that right now? When I hear him say stuff like that, I'm like, why on God's green earth would you stand up there with a bunch of people and brag about something that is becoming one of the flashpoint issues in American life right now from an economic standpoint and from a standpoint of who, who wants to live next to a fucking data center.

[B]

He's lived an entire life of being disconnected to what the people actually want.

[A]

We'll see what happens. We'll also see if this message of affordability is, is something that, you know, politicians can deliver on with policy. And. And we'll see how far a lot of stuff goes. This episode is brought to you by Hyundai. The all new 2026 Hyundai Palisade Hybrid doesn't just turn heads, it commands receipt. With its stunning exterior, luxurious interior with available captain seats and Spacious third row seating and equipped with advanced technology, you and the family are making a statement before you even step out. Okay, Hyundai. Visit HyundaiUSA.com to learn more and experience the all new 2026 Palisade Hybrid today.

[B]

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[A]

Now Zoram Donnie won. And Donnie, what happened on cnn?

[E]

First of all, you got to give the guy the credit. He defeated Democratic party royalty, the Cuomo. That's a, that's a royal family in our party. Defeated them, defeated the oligarchs and rich folks who jumped in to try to stop him, and then defeated Donald Trump. So the triumphalism that you see there is earned. A year ago. Nobody ever heard of the guy. And the younger people who I'm hearing from feel a great deal of relief and pride and they're fired up and they feel they've been silenced for too long. So that speech appealed to some, but I think he missed an opportunity. I think the Mamdani that we saw in the campaign trail, who was a lot more calm, who was a lot warmer, who was a lot more embracing, was not present in that speech. And I think that Mom Darling is the one you need to hear from tonight. There are a lot of people trying to figure out, can I get on this train with him or not? Is he going to include me? Is he going, Is he, is he going to be more of a class warrior even in office? I think he missed a chance tonight to open up and bring more people into the tent. I think his tone was sharp. I think he was using the microphone in a way that he was almost yelling. And that's not the mom Danny that we've seen on TikTok and the great interviews and stuff like that. So I felt like there's a little bit of a character switch here where the warm, open, embracing guy that's close to working people was not on stage tonight. And there was some other voice on stage that said he's very young and he just pulled off something that's very, very difficult. And I wouldn't write him off. But I think he missed an opportunity to open himself up tonight. And I think that that will probably cost him going forward.

[B]

Why'd you do this to us?

[A]

You know what I found out? I was looking something up and the name Van sucks. It's a whack name.

[B]

Are there other vans that you're not down with?

[A]

No. What I mean is just like overall, the name Van is very undesirable. So it is. And so I guess it's not a great name. And it's been a burn. So. Van Jones. Don't you just want to give up the name? Don't you just want to not be called Van anymore? It's not a good name, bro. We don't have no vans like that. We don't have no NBA ball players. We don't have no rappers. Really. It's really not a good name. At the end of the day, I was looking on his Wikipedia and did you know that his name is actually not Van?

[B]

What is it?

[A]

He started going by Van when he was 17. His name is Anthony Jones. That's his name. His real name is Anthony Jones. Tony Jones. Tj.

[B]

Word. Is Van his middle name?

[A]

Nah.

[B]

So he just invented Van?

[A]

Yeah. Let me tell you something personally, to me, Tony Jones. That's a cold ass name, tj. And even if you didn't want to go by Tony, aj. All right, it's common. It's tj, aj. That shit is fly. I fuck with it. Van, though. My daddy didn't even want to be called Van. My daddy went by Terry. Like Van is a crutch. Think about it. We go to Disneyland, we ain't never got our name on a little license plate. Even though it's only three letters. They don't have Van on there. They got Tony on there, they got Anthony on there, they got Ant, they got aj. All of them names are on there, man. You know, we got people always calling us Vanathan, Vaniel. All kinds of. They honking you. They're like, oh, Van, can I drive you? All of that stuff, I'm just saying.

[B]

Is that what you went through in childhood? I'm just.

[A]

I'm telling Van Jones. Don't you want to change your name? Don't you just want to. At a certain point, don't you just wanna move away from this? Isn't it time for you to just. Bruh, you don't. Don't you just wanna change your name, dog? For real, all jokes aside, man, just go by Anthony, bro. I can't handle this anymore. I can't deal with it.

[B]

Did people come at you?

[A]

I can't handle it. And I Need you to get off this name, okay?

[B]

That's your co worker. Look, y' all are just. You just getting sick.

[A]

I'm not saying. I'm not saying nothing. I'm not being personal. This is not a personal shot.

[B]

It's personal. This might not be a personal shot.

[A]

This is not a shot.

[B]

It might not be a shot, but it's personal.

[A]

Free me of this. I can't change my name. I ain't made enough money yet. All right? I changed my name. It's almost like starting over. Motherfucker's up $100 million. Free me of this. Free me of this burden. Don't make me start singing Sweet Lo right now. Anthony Jones, Please, brother. That's a fly ass name, bruh. Anthony. You fuck with that?

[B]

Should we start calling him Anthony Jones?

[A]

Anthony Jones. We gotta call him Anthony Jones, bruh. Anthony Jones. Anthony Jones.

[B]

You know why it's fitting? Cause I found it so interesting when he's talking about Mumdani and he talks about the switch up. Because nobody knows a switch up better than Anthony Jones. So we might as well call him Anthony Jones. Nobody does it better. Nobody knows the switch up better than Anthony Jones.

[A]

Anthony. Every Anthony I know is a G. My man Anthony Lock. Shout out Anthony Lock. He's the headmaster over at Crossroads. My man Anthony Davis, who is not the guy for the Lakers, but is the head coach of basketball over at Crossroads.

[B]

The Lakers anymore.

[A]

Oh, the Mavericks. I mean, he's not the. My man Anthony Davis, who played in the league with me, who's the head coach at Crossroads. These are Anthony's. And these are fly. Light skinned. Like they. They. These are fly brothers. These are every.

[B]

Anthony, I think you gotta throw in light skin.

[A]

Cause they are.

[B]

Everybody's getting like just a little shade today.

[A]

There's no shade. I'm just saying these are guys that I know.

[B]

He's even light skinned.

[A]

These are guys that I know that are. These are some of my homies. These are great.

[B]

I know some great Anthony's, bruh.

[A]

So many Anthonys. And then don't get me started on Tony. Tony, that's.

[B]

No, no Tony. I don't know if Tony has to say, like, you know, Tony don't call no more. Like Solange told us about Tony.

[A]

Then T go with tj.

[B]

Ok, yeah, tj.

[A]

Anthony. I got it. I gotta get out of this. This gotta end, man. Okay? I didn't do nothing to deserve this, is what I'm saying. I don't even wanna get into the substance of all of this. I wanna Say, man, Anthony Jones. That shit is tough. That's some real nigga shit. Go ahead. Give it. Go ahead. Fucking go ahead.

[B]

Sorry, I'm looking up vans right now.

[A]

Okay? Who's the famous. Who's the most famous.

[B]

Most famous vans in the world.

[A]

Okay? He's.

[B]

He. They're using van as a middle name.

[A]

Okay?

[B]

Just like Van Morrison.

[A]

Okay? Brown Eyed Girl, we heard it.

[B]

Van Johnson.

[A]

Don't. Never heard of him.

[B]

Okay, Van Jones is listing.

[A]

I don't care. It's not about fame. It's about the fact that this has to end.

[B]

Mario Van Peoples.

[A]

Mario Van Peoples.

[B]

That's a good one.

[A]

That's a good one. But if the van is in the middle name, I can think about all Andy Van Slyke, you know, Bradley Van Pelt. I can think about all kinds of vans that are out there right now. But what I'm saying is right now, for this particular situation, this has to change. This must change.

[B]

It might be you. He might own van in pop culture. And you might have to start looking for something else. Is Terry your middle name?

[A]

It is.

[B]

Fuck.

[A]

I gave my goods without a warning. I can't get off the corner. I can't. I might have to fight this battle, man. I'm gonna have to fight the battle. I'm gonna have to fight this battle. I can't get off my ground.

[B]

Bring back the video where you had to let people know the difference between you and him.

[A]

But we gotta bring back the video. It doesn't work. Do you know why it doesn't work? Because people are doing it on purpose now, like, legitimately. If I was to critique this video, If I was to critique Van Jones here. What? What? What? Why? Why? Like, why. Why is. Why is it always about cucking like Mandani? They took pictures of planes flying into buildings and made it seem as if that was going to be New York if Mondani was elected. I watched and listened to his whole speech after Van Jones did that. I already watched and listened to the speech. I went and read the transcript on the Nation. Yeah, it's a great speech. A great speech. That had to do with what New York is. That had to do with recognizing people's humanity. A fantastic speech, but a speech that in no way bowed his head to the same people that dehumanized him. That offended Van Jones. It offended Anthony. What the fuck are we doing? Please, God, please free me of this. Please make Anthony Jones a thing, for the love of Christ. Ed Jones, A.J. tony Jones.

[B]

Please, I just don't. People see Van it's like, they know who you are. They know who Van Jones is. But when it comes to, like, writing out the name, they cannot separate the two of you. And that was really shown with Memphis Bleak.

[A]

Yeah, Memphis Bleak. I get it passed, though.

[B]

No, no, no. I get it, too. But I'm just saying, it's so easy to confuse that. I'm rooting for you. I hate this for you. I really do. I really do.

[A]

You got good Rachel's, man, because we know you got Rachel McAdams.

[B]

Nigga, I got Rachel Dolezal. Stop.

[A]

That's kind of a.

[B]

A what? What you mean, Van what? Watch yourself.

[A]

That's somebody there. At least she trying to be with us. I'm telling you right now, I would rather have Rachel Dolezal than say it. Than Van Jones. I would.

[B]

Is there a difference?

[A]

I mean, at least. Because let me tell you, you could send Rachel Dolezal on a dummy mission.

[D]

You could.

[A]

Van Jones not gonna go now. He's done a lot of good work. Don't get me wrong. I'm not trying to. I'm not.

[B]

He always saying that.

[A]

Cause I'm not trying to be. You know what I'm saying? Like, he's done a lot of good work. But you could send Rachel Dolezal on the dummy mission. You could send Rachel Dolezal, the type that you could, like, you know, you could make her go out and do some stuff. Cause she trying to be down. That's useful. You can activate that.

[B]

Okay, who's another Rachel?

[A]

As I said, Rachel McAdams is good.

[B]

Rachel McAdams.

[A]

Let's look up famous Rachel's Rachel.

[B]

Matt.

[A]

Rachel from the Bible.

[B]

Rachel from the Bible is probably the best example.

[A]

See what I'm saying?

[B]

He waited 14 years for Rachel.

[A]

Which is not kind of weird, a.

[B]

Little bit that he waited.

[A]

No. Kind of weird that. No, no. How old was she when he first.

[B]

I don't remember. But he has to marry the sister, remember?

[A]

I do. I'm just telling y', all, you know, go back and look at your Bible. And sometimes the shit is. Whatever it is you have a problem with. Lala.

[B]

I have a problem with celebrities who talk out the side of their neck. I have a problem with celebrities who I guess, you know. Yes. Okay. So I sent this thing to the chat about how there was this thread. It came from, hey, Saloma, Hope I'm saying that right? And she said, and this is exactly why I don't follow celebrities. I wish people would stop looking to entertainers and influencers for their Opinions, because a lot are morally bankrupt and out of touch with everyday Americans. Underneath it was a picture of Lala from her story on social media where she has a picture of her and Anthony Cuomo, and she's basically endorsing him. She's telling people to not just go out and vote, but specifically to go out and vote for Andrew Cuomo. She says that she's known him for years, he's passionate on criminal justice. And I've seen firsthand what kind of leader he can be. She has to be talking. Andrew Cuomo can't be the person in the room she's talking about. And this is so. I understand this frustration. I saw this. But this wasn't the only thing. If you swiped it to the side, Charlamagne was up next.

[A]

What they have him on there for.

[B]

Charlamagne was so. It was like a. I think these were the only two people they actually posted, though. Charlamagne is coming after the Democrats to reopen the government.

[A]

Oh, I did see this.

[B]

And he goes through, well, a couple of things. He's just like, open up the government, Democrats, you're losing this. It's not working. Open it up. People need to be fed. And TSA lines are outta control. Tsa, okay. Like, that's. That's like a. That's the startup.

[A]

Depends on how much you travel. Yeah.

[B]

Well, I mean, yes, like, I have a busy travel week coming up, but I'm not, like, open to government because I don't want to wait in these TSA lines. Like, that's. That's. Yes, he mentioned food, but it's like the other is a little bit more of a privilege statement. You should say, open it up so they can. TSA workers can get paid. Right, right, right. Not because you have to wait in lines, but I just have an issue with people who promote things for their own benefit. And maybe that is what is, I guess, being a celebrity or an entertainer or an influencer, but for their own benefit. When I look at what Lala posted, she says, I've known him for years. That doesn't matter. Just because he's been good to you. He's good to you because of who you are and what your status is. And you're in his tax bracket and in the people who might benefit financially with him in office. You're totally ignoring what he means to women. How he is being accused of sexual harassment. Sexual.

[A]

How's it.

[B]

Assault. I don't know if I wanna say that, but sexual harassment. I will say he has aligned himself with Trump.

[A]

Sexual Misconduct, Sexual misconduct.

[B]

He's aligned himself with Donald Trump. He also switches up as well. He switched up in this race in order to get as many votes as he can to. To beat Mudani. So he doesn't stand for anything. But we should all look beside that. Beside that. And he's a crook. We should all not look at that. Right. Because you've known him for years. So because he's been good to you, he'll be good for us. Get the fuck out of here. I do not like that.

[A]

Okay? So I. One of these people I know, the other people, the other person I don't know.

[B]

Right.

[A]

So I'm going to.

[B]

That's my Lala take.

[A]

I'm gonna speak to both of these. Neither one of these things bother me, but I think they're both wrong. I think the critique of what Charlamagne had to say, and I saw Roland Martin just go crazy on it, was whether or not it's actually true, whether or not Charlamagne is right or wrong.

[B]

Right.

[A]

You just heard me critique Van Jones. I think Van Jones has a track record to me of in some ways wilting and wanting to produce sort of almost effectless version of resistance to what we're in.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And I think that there's a threat there that is troubling to me. All jokes aside, with the whole bit that I did all of that stuff. These are two situations where these are two people that I disagree with on this issue. I have any real problem with this. I have a problem with what Lala is saying. But I remember other things. I remember Magic Johnson was a big time Hillary Clinton supporter when she ran against Barack Obama for a long time. And it was his relationship with the Clintons that had gone way before Barack Obama had got there and, and what type of situation that he was in with them. You was like, damn Magic. Right? But at the same time, it's a political decision that Magic is making that is wrong to me.

[B]

And is it morally wrong?

[A]

I could make an argument that it was.

[B]

You could make an argument, but not on the level of this Cuomo thing.

[A]

Maybe not. But at the same time, if we start to don't know Lala in any way, shape or form, like I'm not speaking for Lala's character, if we say that it was immoral to cast a vote for Andrew Cuomo, which I could have never voted for him, the question would be then, have we cast votes for people that have had similar allegations to Andrew Cuomo or not? Just cast votes for them? Have we Lionized have we put heroic crowns on people that have had these same types of thing? And the answer is yes. And so the only reason why I bring that up is because if it is immoral to support Andrew Cuomo, if it's immoral, forget about wrong. Wrong is one thing. I believe she's wrong. But if it's immoral to do it, then that moral standard would have to be spread across a whole swath of people. And I just know we're not prepared to do that.

[B]

Maybe so, maybe so. But the reason this bothers me, and I don't know how many followers Lala has, but she has millions.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And a lot of people do get whether we don't and we might dismiss or whether celebrity, influencer, entertainer may say because we go out and seek the information ourselves. The reality is most people do not. And most people do look at her and they say, you know, they might look at Lala and they say she's successful, she's independent. You know, she does use her platform for good. And it says, I don't know her personally either, so why would I not take what she says? Because they might not be well versed in the things that Cuomo has done that have directly impacted women, that he's aligned himself with Donald Trump, that he was flip flopping to do whatever he had to do to get money from certain people and to get an endorsement from Donald Trump that we don't really know if he had won, what kind of mayor we would be getting with Andrew Cuomo because he keeps doing what he needs to do in order to win, right? Whatever it is, to get sacrificing, whatever to get the votes. Who is Andrew Cuomo now, as a person, as a politician? Don't know, because he's willing to do whatever. But people will look at this. I mean, this whole story is vote, vote, vote, vote. She's like, I know it's your choice, but this is who I'm voting for. And this is why, without telling the other part of it, it's just when you personalize your vote in this way, I feel like it's what you said it, you said it's wrong too. I feel like it's extremely problematic. And whether we like it or not, she, she is somebody that has influence. Specifically in New York, Charlamagne, to me, we know the influence that the Breakfast Club has, right? We know that leaders, politicians, artists, people go to that platform, as you have said, because they feel like they're directly speaking to a black audience. So if that is the hold that a Charlamagne has. When you say things like blaming the Democrats for the reason that the government is still shut down, he's smarter than that. I don't understand how he can blame. It's an opinion. Right. But when Donald Trump, when your basis for blaming the Democrats is long TSA lines and that people need to be fed, then how are you not blaming the president of the United States where they can feed now, it's not fully, but they have the funds to partially fund snap, and they are refusing to do it against a court order and blaming it on the Democrats. And you are aligning yourself with that very thinking, with this kind of statement that you made.

[A]

Right. I think the criticism is fair in no way.

[B]

I think he continues to do this. If we keep talking about Van Jones, we gotta keep talking about the shit Charlamagne says, too.

[A]

I think his outlook on it is wrong. I do know one thing, though, that he took his old money and fed a bunch of people. And I think. What I'll just be honest with you. He took his own money, thousands of dollars, and he fed a bunch of people.

[B]

That's great.

[A]

And then his response coming back to that was, you know, it didn't take as much money to feed all of these people as I thought that it would like. It took this amount of money for me to buy breakfast for kids or to do this for a whole year or whatever it is. Right. And so what I look at is whether or not there is a correct analysis of what the problem is from Lala and from Charlamagne, a correct analysis of what's happening. Because on the insurance premiums part of this, he's just straight wrong.

[B]

Right?

[A]

He's just wrong.

[B]

Yeah, he's wrong.

[A]

And Roland Martin then pointed that out. I'm okay with that. I'm okay with wrong. I am. I'm okay with, hey, you said this. You did this. I don't agree. I'm okay with wrong. I'm okay with you're backing the wrong candidate. I think it's interesting from Lala's perspective that she put this out on election day to really, if she wanted to help Cuomo's campaign, she should have done it. She could have done this two weeks ago, she could have done this. Months ago, she could have done this. She could have been out there stumping and campaigning with him. She could have been doing a litany of things that used her influence and all the people that follow her to help build momentum for his campaign a long time ago. Maybe she didn't. I Just didn't see it. But I didn't see none of that. I saw a very calculated. Even in the message, your vote, your choice. I encourage everybody to get out there and make your voice heard. She's saying you can do whatever you want. This is a pretty weak endorsement. It's a pretty weak.

[B]

That's an endorsement, though.

[A]

It is, but I get you. And I wonder why it. Even if it's this week, I wonder why it happens in the first place. I wonder, like, what's the deal? Right. Especially when Cuomo is about to get killed. My deal is this. We're going to have plenty of conversations with people that we disagree with. Yeah. My only, my only direct criticism of somebody's cult of personality is when I feel like they are at cross purposes with progress about who they are and what they're doing. And so if we're talking about whoever might be out there that we continuously criticize, if we feel like the messages that they're putting out there are. Are purposefully or intentionally wilting to power, I have a problem with that.

[B]

How would you know? How do you know somebody's intent, consistency? Well, some of these people we've talked about have been pretty consistent.

[A]

Well, I mean. I mean, if you are consistently acquiescing to power, consistently acquiescing to power. If you are not challenging Donald Trump, if you are not challenging the Republican Party status, if you're not challenging anti Blackness, if you're not challenging those things inconsistently, if you.

[B]

Or if you are continuing to blame one party over the other, forget about party.

[A]

I don't care about party.

[B]

Like you just said Republicans.

[A]

No, but what I mean is I say Republicans and I said anti black. I don't care. Forget about party. I don't care about party. I don't. What I care about is, like, if, in fact, you choose to. If we go back to Stephen A. Smith, if in fact you choose to indict Jasmine Crockett without indicting the person that is continuously poking at Jasmine Crockett, to me, that tells me something. And if I know that, like, you are popping up with Sean Hannity and you're doing all of this stuff and like all of that stuff, I start to wonder. I've known Charlamagne for a long time. There's no secret. I've known Charlamagne for a long time. We are in perpetual disagreement about many different things, almost all of them politically. I am way to the left of him. He not a coon.

[B]

I didn't say he was a coon.

[A]

I know. And there's nothing about him that's like that. I sometimes think that he, I mean, he's much more conservative than I am. That's for sure. Much more conservative than I am. And I think that he has a distinct disdain for the Democrats.

[B]

That's obvious.

[A]

Yeah. He has a distinct disdain for the Democrats. And I think it more has to do with his perception of strength and weakness more than it does with actual politics. I sometimes do believe that that clouds his ability to analyze these situations fairly because he. And look, and I'll go broader here, I think that part of the respect or the affinity that some black males have for Donald Trump, it was because Donald Trump projects strength.

[B]

Yeah. Power, money. It's why he's in all the rap songs, he talks about that. Yeah.

[A]

And the Democrats seem to be, to a lot of people, they seem to be weaker. And so it's easier to blame them for being poor fighters for some people than it is to blame the person that they're actually fighting against. Because the way we are raised, we are not really raised, or at least I'll speak for myself. I was never, ever, ever raised to indict the bully for wanting to beat me up. It was never a situation where I was raised to be like, the fact that this person wants to beat me up or wants to hurt me was wrong. That's not how I was raised. I was raised to self indict for allowing it to happen. Like if I wasn't strong enough not to get fucked with, that was the crime. The crime wasn't that people wanna fuck with you. That exists. The crime was whether or not you was too weak to get fucked with. And so when the nuance of that or when that's in your DNA, sometimes that leads you to really blame people's for their inability to fight back and not blame the people that are actually trying to kick them over.

[B]

But is, yeah, okay, I know we have to, we move on. We have a guest coming up in a second. But is that not what the Democrats are trying to do with the shutdown? What you mean is that not them fighting back? Is that not. I know you don't agree with what he said.

[A]

This is why it's wrong.

[B]

I know you know it's wrong. Like I want to be very clear, I understand, you know it's wrong. But I'm saying to your point of the fight back and like the perception of power, this is the Democrats asserting what little power they have with what's left as far as who controls the House, the Senate, and the executive branch. This is them fighting back. This is them. And it's still not enough. They're still. From some people getting the blame. I know that's not what you're saying. I'm just responding to the. To the power.

[A]

Last thing I'll say, and I'll be just honest about this. The responsibility. No one has a responsibility to agree with me. No one does. No one has a responsibility to agree with me. The responsibility, the much more egregious thing than any of that stuff, because if we're talking about ending the shutdown so people can eat, so that the SNAP benefits come back, we know that Donald Trump is in. If we're talking about ending the shutdown, because tsa, we can have a difference in here. I think some of what was put out about the insurance premiums is just straight up not true. So we all have responsibilities. And I've shirked that responsibility here. I've said things. I said that Tupac Amaru was Mexican, he's Peruvian. There's times that I've done that as well. We have a responsibility to get things right. But with Lala here, she's voting for the wrong candidate. With Charlamagne, he thinks the Democrats should open the government. I do not think that they should. Those arguments can be substantive to me. And we can argue with. If we're progressive, we can argue with the center. We do it all the time, and we indict them. But last thing, any type of critique that I've had of Hakeem Jeffries or Chuck Schumer or any of these guys is because I think that they're. It's twofold. One, I think that they're doing a poor job of representing the base of the Democratic Party. And two, I think that both of them are beholden. The foreign interests that made them incapable of looking at these. These issues to me in a holistic way. I have no problem with your critique. I think a lot of people share it and you're starting to hear it more. But I do think we can disagree with people on issues.

[B]

Absolutely.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

I just have a. When I see black people, I feel like there's another level of response. They have a responsibility with their platform. When I feel like they're saying things against the interest of the community, you.

[A]

Know, why don't we just bring Charlamagne on and you can.

[B]

I have always said he could. Come on.

[A]

You want to have the conversation with me?

[B]

I've always said he could come on. I think he. Save it for when he gets it.

[A]

You want, you want to, you want to talk to him? You want to, you want to have it out?

[B]

I don't want to. You want me to have it out? I do, but I will have the same energy.

[A]

I, I, I think the having it out is good.

[B]

I think, I think. No, of the same energy. If we gonna talk about the Van Jones. If we're gonna talk about.

[A]

We talking about it.

[B]

If we're gonna talk about the Stephen A. Smiths, we gotta talk about the Charlemagne. He's right up there with them.

[A]

This is cause Stephen A. Smith is your man.

[B]

This is cause he's, I've called him out. We gotta have, we gotta have the conversations about.

[A]

No, you haven't talked to him. He hasn't reached out.

[B]

Why would he reach out?

[A]

Hey, you talked to him. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, I haven't, I haven't. But my thing is we know all of these people. Yes, we know the Van Joneses, we know the Stephen A. Smiths and all of that stuff, but like, I know, know, know him.

[B]

No, no. Yeah, you do.

[A]

I know, know, know him.

[B]

That's your guy.

[A]

And that's, and that's like a, if some.

[B]

That's his guy.

[A]

It is. I know, know, know him. It is. That's my man. And I know, know, know him. Besties, we have gone on vacations together and know each other's girls are best friends.

[B]

The guys are best friends.

[A]

Like, I will disagree with him, but at the same time, I know for a fact that it's people where he's from that are eating because he fed.

[B]

Them that are going to. That's great.

[A]

Bring Jesse in. Bring Jesse in.

[B]

Van Jones has done a lot of good stuff, too.

[A]

Don't I always say that?

[B]

I know, that's why I'm repeating here.

[A]

Don't I always say that? Huh?

[B]

This episode is brought to you by Spotify Portal for Backstage. But you're wondering, what's Portal? Well, it's an internal developer portal built to improve developer experience and boost productivity. All software components are centralized. Documentation is automated and easy to maintain. New projects and components, just a few clicks. With your best practices already built in, think less friction, more innovation. Ready to double your productivity? Try Spotify [e-mail].

[A]

This episode is brought to you by the Home Depot. Black Friday savings are here at the Home Depot, which means it's time to stock up on new additions to your collection. And right now, when you buy a select battery kit from one of our top Brands like Ryobi or Milwaukee, you'll get a select tool from that same brand for free. So check out the best deals of the season and get top brand tools you'll use for projects all year long. Black Friday savings happening now at the Home Depot limit 1 per transaction exclusions apply. Full eligible tool list in store and online. All right, so listen, guys, the Toronto Blue Jays experienced a pretty heartbreaking loss. Jesse Blake is here. Jesse Blake is from SDPN up in Canada and he livestreams the games. The Toronto Blue Jays games, okay. And he was live streaming when Miguel Rojas hit a home run in the top of the ninth to tie the game and essentially send it to extra innings. Now, the Blue Jays still had a chance in the bottom of the ninth inning. They had something working, but they couldn't get the run across that they needed to tie the game. Their run scoring was.

[B]

And they never could after that.

[A]

And they never could. Jesse is a thought warrior, which we did not know. When we played that clip of him responding to the Miguel Rojas home run, I thought it was hilar. We haven't heard from any of the. Now I understand. Someone that I know from Canada told me the tortured history of the Toronto Maple Leaves and all of that stuff. I didn't realize what a tortured fan base a Toronto sports fan is. But Jesse Blake joins us on Higher Learning now. Jesse, how are you, man? How are you coping with the devastating loss?

[D]

I'm. I'm kind of recovered. It's. It's been taking a few days, but it's. I'm okay now. I'm. I'm good.

[A]

What did it feel like when the nine hole hitter, Miguel Rojas blasted that hanging slider from Jeff Hoffman across the left field wall?

[D]

Yeah, it's. It's a culmination of 162 games of US Blue Jays fans yelling at the front office that that might happen. Cause we didn't trust our closer. The guy who was in there who gave up the home run, his name's Jeff Hoffman and that's why I yelled there. We thought this could happen. That's why I was in so much pain, because we were hoping that this wouldn't happen. And all post season he had a really good run. Didn't allow much runs throughout the entire thing. And then when it comes down to winning the World Series, that's when he collapsed. So it was a lot of heartbreak. It was 10 months of buildup to that moment and 30 years, really, because that's when we won the World Series in 93. And then for him to break our hearts like that, and two outs remaining. It wasn't fun. Wasn't fun at all.

[B]

30 years. I'm a Cowboys fan. I do understand that greatness is. It may never happen again for us. I do understand that. However, Jesse, I have to keep the same energy. I feel nothing. Okay. I don't feel sorry for you. It is an inherent risk of the game. Not talking about injuries. I'm talking about the loss. I'm talking about the heartbreak. There's always the chance that this could happen. You should be proud that you guys had a strong 10 months.

[D]

I, I, I, I am. Totally. And I knew that you were competitive because you once said that you could guard Caitlin Clark.

[B]

And I mean, I stand by that.

[D]

That's still so. That's one of the wildest things ever said into a podcast, Mike. Yeah, like, that's insane that you still think about it.

[B]

Twenty years ago, I said, no, that's.

[A]

Not what you said.

[B]

Yes, I did. I said 20 years ago in my prime.

[A]

It doesn't matter when you would have said it. It's absurd.

[D]

But, Jesse, so you, I know you're competitive, but for you to not have sympathy for somebody in a sport that you don't care about. You left the World Series game and you don't care about baseball. For you not just to give me, give me a little hand, you know, just, hey, pick you up when you're down to a Thought Warrior. It hurt. It hurt a lot to hear that, Rachel.

[B]

Now, Jesse, I didn't know you were a Thought Warrior, and I have to let you know, it still doesn't change my face. You guys gave. This was a great World Series. People who aren't even into baseball, like myself, I understand. I had nothing really invested in the game, but seven games, extra innings, this is an exciting thing. This will go down in history. It'll be a series that people talk about. I feel like going into this World Series, people really didn't expect you guys to do this. Well, Jesse, you should be proud.

[D]

And I am. And I'm so proud of the Blue Jays. Like, that's, I was talking on the stream. Like, when I was done doing the watch along, I told the audience who are Blue Jays fans, we need to be proud of this team because they were supposed they were in last place last year. Everybody projected them to be in last place again, and they came within two outs of winning the World Series. That's so cool. And I'm proud of the team, but I'm still devastated at how it ended because they were so close, right? And I just expected some sympathy from sports fans. And Van did have a sympathetic ear to my pain there.

[B]

I'll tell you this. I was at the greatest college football game ever. Texas Longhorns versus USC Trojans. We were losing that game in the fourth quarter, and I expected us to fully lose. If we had lost that game, I cried when we won. I would've cried if we lost. If we had lost that game, I would not have expected USC fans to be like, man, they almost had it, man. You know, Vince Young should have won the Heisman that year. They lost that, too. Like, they just can't catch a break. I would not have expected USC fans to be there for me. It's a part of the game didn't happen. I mean, one. But I'm just saying.

[A]

This is what I'll say this. And I remember, it's like, there was one specific game. I'm not gonna talk about it. Cause it's a very important game. One specific game that I play. I played phenomenal in this game. This is back in high school, whatever. Played phenomenal in this game. I just remember winning the game and looking and seeing somebody crying. And seeing somebody crying. When I said, see them crying, I saw their mama crying. They're crying. It was a big game. And just me going, hey, man, you'll be back. Like, head up the whole nine. Put my. The whole entire thing to me. Honestly, you said that you're such a competitor that you don't care about what happens. I honestly look at that as the inverse. I feel like if you've really competed hard, if you really. You have a respect for what the other team has sacrificed to get there. And when they come up short, a lot of times, a lot of the competitors I love take the time to console people a little bit. I'm just being for real.

[B]

They're celebrating. What do you mean, no respect?

[A]

Why you're celebrating? Like, what? I. I just think I see your.

[B]

Thoughts, because respect to me is different. I wouldn't taunt them during their losing. That's respect. I'm not a. I'm not gonna do that, but I'm gonna celebrate. And I'm not gonna take away from my celebration to be like, that's tough. Maybe, Jesse, if it was the last game that somebody was ever playing in their life, if the. That might be the only reason, you know, basketball. You said if that was just their senior year, they weren't gonna go on to play college, that was it for them. Maybe, maybe.

[D]

Maybe it's more. Maybe it's a Canadian thing. Cause Milwaukee, that's. In hockey, there's a tradition at the end of every playoff series, the two teams get to center ice and they all shake hands. It's. It's one of. It's one of the best things I think hockey has going. No matter how much of a battle the seven games was, or however long the series goes, everybody takes that moment at the end of the game. They shake hands, they have the line shake. And I think that is important in sports to acknowledge at the other end, you have somebody who. Who's competing just as hard as you, and they might have fallen short, but you respect the battle that the two of you had. So I guess that's where my mentality's coming from.

[A]

They do that in almost every sport. By the way. Like, I remember one of the biggest. LeBron was criticized one time for walking off of the court without exchanging pleasantries with people. Sign of respect, sign of whatever. I go further. I just watch it and I put myself. It's just something that happens. I put myself in those people. Jesse, I'm be real with you. If I was into the Blue Jays like you are into the Blue Jays, like a lot of people in that mega mash, there's this YouTube, it's called across the Fan Base, and it showed different mashups of everyone responding. And you were in there, okay. And you. The thing that stood out is you were standing up and you say. You literally said, this is the biggest moment in my life as a Blue Jays fan. And then you're like, oh, my God. I was like, nah, man, that is funny. But when I watched all of those things, at the end of it, there's these two guys and they just went. The Dodgers just went away, World Series. And I'm like, fuck, I care that much. Question. Do you think that some of the people's reactions to Blue Jays fans is. Cause you think the Blue Jays fans kind of made this a Drake Kendrick thing? Toronto versus la? Do you think that there was some shit talking that happened early on that you guys. I remember after game one and the boy himself was posting pictures of Shohei Otani. He was trolling a little bit. And then it came back to hit you. So do you think a lot of people didn't show you guys any empathy because they felt like I was talking that cash money shit.

[D]

We went hard. Like, I will admit that when there's a lot of us, because all of Canada, right? It's a Toronto based team. But like a lot of Canada takes the Blue Jays as their baseball team. And after, especially after game, game five, when we were up three, two in that series, we went hard. And Shohei Ohtani, for context, chose not to sign with the Blue Jays. He met with them and they were like second in line for us to sign him and for us to be in the World Series against Shohei and then beating him when he didn't want to sign with us, it was like an extra boost to our ego. And we were chanting at the end of one of the games, I forget which was one. One of the home games, we don't need you. We don't need you. And I admit I did that on the stream too. And then for them to win, it hurts extra hard. But I assume Dodgers fans, I get it, no sympathy. But this competitiveness of it, I hope they can see that we're just in there with you in the trenches. But yeah, we went. We went kind of hard. I will not deny that.

[B]

So wait, Drake said something?

[A]

Drake was posted on his ig. Oh.

[C]

So, yeah.

[B]

So is the Drake curse real?

[D]

A couple of games, A little bit. The Raptors won in 2019. Like, we got that championship forever. We have a ring, we have a banner, and Drake was a huge piece of that team. He was a global ambassador for that. So I think the Drake curse is washed. But lately he hasn't been on the right side of things, so. And that's post Kendrick, so.

[A]

Right.

[D]

It is what it is.

[A]

So Jesse, tell us what's what. What's the future for LA Toronto relations? Because I'm gonna be real, you know, shout out to my man Marlon. We had him on here, extra gravy show. Marlon posted something and he was like, not even the Dodgers can stop the greatest fall of all time. And I remember when he posted that after game one, I started to be like, marlon, if you don't. That's my guy. One of the funniest, most talented guys. It seems like that there's a Toronto LA thing and it's just gonna keep coming back, coming back, coming back. Top five is out there marauding around, roaming the cities, begging for a body. The Blue Jays versus the Dodgers. All of this stuff. What. What has to happen for this Toronto LA schism to fix itself? What has to happen?

[D]

It's. It's always going to be a little bit there, right?

[C]

Because the.

[D]

The Kendrick Drake thing was so big. Like, there's always going to be a little bit of that animosity, and we're kind of Like New York of Canada. Right. And you guys are LA and you got the LA New York rival. So, Reese. So it kind of bleeds into it makes sense that we would be beefing and I don't think it's just going to immediately wash away and we're just going to be all buddy, buddy again. I feel like anything that comes up, Toronto, la, we're always going to be on opposite sides and there's always going to be a little bit of like, hey, we don't like each other. I don't know what's going to solve this.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

Well, I like it.

[A]

Like, it's good.

[D]

It's good for the sport. Rivalries are great. Like, you need that opposition. You know, we need somebody to go against, be like, that's our enemy. Because that's how you got good storyline.

[A]

Right. Well, you guys might not.

[D]

I'm not trying to patch things up.

[A]

You guys might. You guys might win now that Don Mattingly left. I don't know why having him on the staff you thought was a good thing. He's allergic to World Series. We were talking about it earlier. Like, Don M. Leaves the Yankees to like, they go on a World Series run now, you guys, I guess you guys might win it next year, but you and Rachel, everything's cool. You guys are good.

[B]

There was never an issue, Jesse. Never an issue.

[A]

They shaking hands? Oh, yeah, I'm shaking hands. Okay, well, I'm gonna be in Toronto later. Maybe we can get some poutine. We get a bear claw. Do the, do the whole thing up there in Toronto. Shout out to Toronto, Jesse. Tell people where they can, where they can find you. We might bring you back to talk about all things Canadian. Maybe you and Marlon and we could talk about Judge Tycho or something like that. Talk about where they can find you, where they can go to. To. To talk to you, Jesse.

[D]

Yeah. If you need a Canadian correspondent, I can be that.

[A]

Appreciate it.

[D]

Follow the Steve Dangle podcast if you're into hockey. We talk hockey three times a week, couple hours and follow DPN on YouTube. That's our YouTube channel where we host all of our sports content there, Jesse.

[A]

Thank you.

[B]

Thank you. Yeah.

[A]

Once again, I feel your pain, brother. I feel. I've been there. I've been there.

[B]

I respect it.

[A]

There you go.

[D]

There we go.

[A]

All right, we're gonna move on. Thank you, Jesse.

[B]

Thanks, Jesse.

[A]

All right, Donnie, get us into this.

[C]

Yeah. It looks like there is a schism on the right. It was triggered when Tucker Carlson released an interview with Nick Fuentes. For those who don't know, he's the leader of the America first movement who has denied the Holocaust, praise Hitler and share some deeply misogynistic views. The interview with Tucker Carlson was on brand for Fuentes and it actually drew some criticism from figures on the right, including Mike Huckabee, ted Cruz, Mitch McConnell, among others. Kevin Roberts, president of the Heritage Foundation. That's a high profile conservative think tank. He condemned those who were attacking Carlson as the venomous coalition, which he later apologized for.

[A]

Okay, so this is something I've been watching every second of for like the last tapped in. I'm tapped into this. This is, this is significant.

[B]

This is a huge thing.

[A]

Okay, so if we go all the way back, Nick Fuentes is the leader of the Gorpen movement. You've seen Nick Fuentes. Nick Fuentes was with Kanye West. Remember he had dinner with, dinner with Trump.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

He is a 27 year old.

[D]

Alt.

[A]

Right conservative, Nazi adjacent, like racist, all of it, firebrand that hosts his own show. He. I watched the entire Tucker Carlson interview. He talks about his beginnings, his start in the conservative movement, while why he was pushed to the margins of it. He was seen as too extreme. He was seen as why was he.

[B]

Pushed to the margins? I don't know.

[A]

The way he explained it was that. And the interview with Tucker Carlson was definitely, definitely, in my opinion, part of the philosophical mainstreaming of Nick Fuentes.

[B]

I agree with that.

[A]

Now, a lot of people would look at this and say, you can't really mainstream Nick Fuentes. He has a million followers on Twitter and he has a gigantic movement and platform. You can't mainstream him in terms of audience. But I think when people talk about mainstreaming, they only talk about the amount of people that you're talking to. That's not really what people are talking about. An acceptance of your ideas into a mainstream intelligentsia, a normalizing, normalizing of it, a sane washing of it is what people are talking about with Nick Fuentes. Right. And there's no doubt about the fact that Tucker's interview did that. The reason why that interview happened was because Nick Fuentes had called out Tucker Carlson and took a chunk out of his ass. And the way for Tucker Carlson to stop attacks from Nick Fuentes and his group was to bring Nick Fuentes onto his platform and essentially call truce. That's what happened. But he talks about the fact that he began getting into conservative thought early in his life. He was a teenager, he read a couple of books. And then after that he was a part of Model Un. In his high school. And then after that, he gave a speech when he was in college, and that speech was live streamed by someone who was also a lady who was getting her beginnings in the conservative movement, which then put him on the radar of Ben Shapiro. This and this. This and this and this and this. But if what eventually happens is they decide that he is his contention, they decide that he is too anti Israel to be a part of mainstream conservative thought. Right. I will say that Nic Fuentes is not just anti Israel. Being anti Israel is one thing. Being anti Israel is saying that there is a foreign government that you think is acting in ways that are reckless with people's lives and has an unproductive relationship with the United States. There are many criticisms that you can level at a foreign government. Right. And the way that that foreign government is acting. Nath Fuentes has gone further than that in his criticism of worldwide Jewry and Jewish culture.

[B]

It's thoughts about Jewish people.

[A]

Right. And he has also made all of the same bad remarks. He once said that, you know, women kind of want to be raped. They kind of want to be harassed. All of this stuff.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But here's the deal. Nick Fuentes is the baby of the Republican Party. He's their child. And the reason why this is so interesting to me is because either the Republicans don't realize what they birthed, or they cannot throw the baby out with the bathwater. Now they have to let them grow up in their house. They have to let them eat their food. And there are some people who want to adopt the child that came back home, and there are some people who don't. And it is bursting the party at the seams.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. I don't think they thought that Nick Fuentes's audience would grow in the way that it's been growing, and even more so after the death of Charlie Kirk. And the two weren't, you know, they were enemies. But there have been followers of Kirk that have gravitated to Nick Fuentes. And I just really think that they thought this is just a small group of extremists, that it's. That whole thing is that quote I was trying to say before, where not all Republicans are racist, but all racists are Republicans. It was like, this is a group, this supports us, but it's gonna stay kind of in a sector of the Internet that nobody's really paying attention to. Right. Cause Nick Fuentes is banned from YouTube. I don't know what else he's banned from.

[A]

Not bad for anything. He's back on Everything.

[B]

He's back on YouTube.

[A]

I don't know if he's back on YouTube, but he's back.

[B]

I know he's back on Twitter.

[A]

Obviously he's back on Twitter. And him being back on Twitter is kind of a big thing because when in fact, Nick Fuentes had been effectively canceled, it pushed him to the margins of this. But now he is back in a major way. You can see the clips all over the place and his voice is very loud again.

[B]

And they just didn't think that it would, you know, to the point normalizing, watering down, become acceptable to such a large group of people, a growing group of people, a younger base of people and people who are going to be voting. But it's the chickens come home. Chickens come home to roost. Quote, right? You the Republicans adopted specifically under Trump where they accepted racists. There's very good people on both sides. Right. As recent as JD Vance not wanting to condemn the text messages that were in those leaked group chats. Oh, those are just young kids. It was this whole thing of, I don't wanna say they were normalizing it, but kind of like it's a free speech, we have no enemies on the right type thing. And now it's gone out of hand to where it's affecting the very people who donate to your party, the people who support your party. The reason this civil war is going to happen, the reason that it's out of control, and they're gonna have to figure out what to do. They're gonna have to condemn Nick Fuentes is because they have a lot of support from Jewish people on the right. And Jewish people are not going to tolerate the Nick Fuentes of the world. They're not going to tolerate somebody who denies the Holocaust, who praises Hitler and plays into very problematic negative stereotypes of Jewish people. How can the right condemn what's going on in New York with Mamdani and play into all these things, but not condemn Nick Fuentes, who is outright hating, basically spewing out things to increase antisemitism, that is encouraging people to hate Jewish people. How can both can exist? And so we saw them try to do it with the Heritage foundation president. And then what happened? It blew up in his face. And he's gonna end up having to resign.

[A]

Yeah, he's out. So if I watch the entire Heritage foundation town hall last night, there were several people calling on him. Zion.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

And Kevin Roberts is a personal friend of Tucker Carlson. So when he came out to defend.

[B]

Tucker Carlson and they fund his stuff.

[A]

Right. And so when he came out to defend Tucker Carlson. We should say that the Heritage foundation are the architects of Project 2025.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

So it the Kevin Robbins, when he came out to defend Tucker Carlson and to proclaimed that the Heritage foundation would always stand next to Tucker Carlson no matter what, there were a lot of people who said, if there's not going to be any criticism of Tucker Carlson from the Heritage foundation, then we cannot look at the Heritage foundation as the bellwether of conservative thought. There's something here that is undergirding in this entire thing, and that is Israel. So four or five years ago, it was easy to look at Nick Fuentes and say that all of his ideas were hairbrained, that all of his ideas were so far out of left field that you didn't have to consider anything, that he thought you could throw them into the hole with a lot of people. There are a lot of people with a treasure trove of bad ideas that a lot of younger people think are correct on Israel. And so the fact that they will call out Israel, the fact that they will say Israel should not be committing, and this is whether it's Tucker, this is whether it's Candace, this is whether it's Nick, no matter who it is, the fact that there are people that challenge Christian Zionism or challenge Zionism at all and say that it makes younger people think that other ideas that they have have similar credence because they are so willing to be truthful on an issue that it seemed like it took mainstream political thought a long time to grapple with, which was that there was a genocide happening in Gaza and that the United States was funding it, and that there was nothing that we can do to get the upper levels of the United States government to hold Israel accountable in any way. There was nothing that we could say to get aid, military or otherwise conditioned to Israel that the only thing that we could do was continue to shake hands and hope that they killed less people. And when people got a glimpse of that, when people saw that, well, they looked at people like Nick Fuentes and they were going, what else is he saying? And the issue seemed like a one issue referendum on the credibility of all of your thought. And that's an entry point. The fact that we cannot and we refuse to separate actual virulent and direct antisemitism from blanket support for the government of Israel, from anti Zionism, from being against the regime right now that is in Israel, for being against the genocide in Gaza. The fact that we cannot separate those two things, it's actually fermenting an environment for people like this to be mainstreamed, for their ideas to take hold. You see it all over the place. So the fact that we have this entanglement between what is anti Semitism, what is anti Zionism, what is anti Semitism, what is holding Israel accountable, what is holding AIPAC accountable, the fact that these things are still intertwined, the fact that a lot of our lawmakers signed on to, basically all of them signed onto a resolution that said anti Zionism is anti Semitism. And then somebody gets a photograph of a blown up kid or starving kid and they go, wait a second, who is willing to tell the truth about this? And they see somebody who they think is telling the truth about it and then they go, oh, okay, I'm with that person now. And so we see this happening like all over the place. The interesting part about it is the response of Dinesh d', Souza, Vivek Ramaswamy, JD Vance and all of these people who in a very specific way are either brown or connected to brown people. Because Vivek Ramaswamy comes out and goes, hey, just to let you know, we lost Tuesday. We should concentrate on affordability. Go look at the comments, go look at the.

[B]

Well, what's the second thing that he said?

[A]

What else did he say?

[B]

He said we should get away from identity politics. That is the left's thing. That's their game. And he's saying that because he keeps, he goes to Turning Point USA and they ream him for not being, identifying with the right religion, right?

[A]

And what I'm saying is they are getting destroyed. I know their base is saying, you know what? Ann Coulter looked at him and went, I would never vote for you, you're an Indian.

[B]

Right?

[A]

So now and then you see some black and queer people on the right that are going, hey guys, this is getting out of control. They can't stop it because they invite.

[B]

This is what I mean about chickens coming home to roost. They invited this. They have been the home of conspiracies, of extremism and they've allowed it to live there without ever condemning it. There were no if you're right, if you're on the right, you're right. It didn't matter what you believe. They welcome it all under the name of free speech. And now that's coming to bite them in the ass.

[A]

Dinesh d' Souza himself is a racist. He has said many, many, many racist things. And it's interesting as I pull this up right now, it's interesting to watch him so taken aback at this, right.

[B]

Trump's a racist. It's like, guys, I know, you know, I get it.

[A]

But, like, it's an interesting touch point to see which racism is.

[B]

Okay, I was just gonna hit on that. No, no, no, you're right. No, keep going.

[A]

No, no, no.

[B]

Not even. Just racism. Misogyny.

[A]

I'm looking at this right now. From February 18, 2015, you can take the boy out of the ghetto with a picture of Barack Obama. Watch this vulgar man show his stuff, while America cowards in embarrassment. Ben Shapiro, who came out against Nick Fuentes and the Heritage Foundation, a long response to Kevin Roberts and the Heritage foundation, and also against Tucker Carlson, who he's also in a war with. There is a direct split happening right now on the Republican Party that's almost mirrors the progressive centrist split that was happening throughout the Democratic Party for the last couple of years. This one is every bit as bitter, maybe even more bitter. Ben Shapiro, I keep reminding you guys, Ben Shapiro trolled black people on Trayvon Martin's birthday. On Trayvon Martin's birthday. The death of a black teenager is something that Ben Shapiro took the time on his birthday for a couple of different years to troll black people on.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Now he is in a position and in a spot where he feels like racism and antisemitism has gone too far on the right. All of these people traded in this to get to where they were because.

[B]

It directly impacts him. Now, we say this all the time on the show. I always say this. It has to directly impact them for them to speak out and be affected. If I'm not mistaken, I was trying to find his tweet. Even in that tweet where he's condemning Nick Fuentes that he just put out after the interview, he goes around all the things that says he's saying no to. No to Nick Fuentes, no to Tucker Carlson, all these different things. I'm almost positive he doesn't say anything about black people. It's what impacted him directly. Now it's about Israel. Now it's about Jewish people. And I'm not saying. And obviously I'm against Nick Fuentes and what he has to say towards Jewish people. But it didn't matter to Ben Shapiro until it directly affected him and his community. And that's what's happening now. Nick Fuentes has been like this. Your president went to dinner with him and Kanye west, who has also said very anti Semitic things. And now it's an issue for you.

[A]

Part of this also is just market competition. Nick Fuentes is getting A little too late.

[B]

Oh, for Ben Shapiro, second.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, Nick Fuentes is getting a little too lit. Things aren't going as well at the Daily Wire as they should be. Nick Fuentes is going like this. This is the competition now. The competition. And this is not that much different than what was happening in the first Trump administration, where you saw people like Richard Spencer start to really gain national prominence and become voices that people were really platforming. Milo Yiannopoulos, all of these people, right? There was a Right, right, right. That always is empowered under Donald Trump. Always empowered under Donald Trump. There's always a figure that rises up from that alt right, neo Nazi perspective that people have to contend with. This is when Milo became a big deal. This is when Richard Spencer became a big deal. And in those cases, there were a lot of people on the right that fought for those guys, that said, don't stop them from coming to talk at your colleges. Don't stop them from writing their books. Don't stop them from doing all of that other stuff. They eventually found other things to cancel those guys about. In this particular situation with Nick Fuentes, we're in a much, much different place culturally right now. A much different place culturally. Elon has taken over Twitter and said that everything goes. And so everything goes means that it's essentially a trash bin of ideas and nothing will stop the ideas from coming. Like, I legitimately click on, on the Heritage foundation to watch the video. I click on the Nick Fuentes interview with Tucker to watch the entire thing. Now I'm getting Nick Fuentes clips on my shit. Now they're popping up. Now the shit is now this shit is coming. And there's nothing. There's no community standard at X. So it doesn't matter what he's saying in these clips. My brain is fortified. But if I'm 15 years old, if I'm 16 years old.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

And you have a couple of things that you see that you agree with him on, whatever they may be. You're just opened up to becoming a groiper. And it is now something. I mean, the left is not fucking with that at all, right? Like there's no real estate. I don't know that there's no real estate, but it doesn't seem to be much real estate. But it's a problem. A problem on the right. And I don't know what they're gonna do. Last night I watched that entire Heritage town hall, the whole thing. And at times, Kevin Roberts was able to have substantive debate with people in Heritage. But at times it was people that just stood up and went, you gotta go. Yeah, you're out now. They want to make. They're asking different members of the Heritage foundation to attend Shabbat dinners.

[B]

Who's asking Heritage?

[A]

Oh, there's. Or not Heritage, but an outside group. There's someone that's saying that there could be an anti Semitic contagion that exists inside of the Heritage Foundation. So there was actually a leak of someone responding to the fact that they said that they are a Christian and they can't go to a Shabbat dinner. What they want now is to make sure that there is not something in the bowels of the Heritage foundation that is anti Semitic, because Fuentes has said it. He said 40% of your people in Turning Point USA are gropers. A huge percentage of your people in Heritage are gropers. He says that there are people all over at the base of the Republican Party, specifically of a certain age, that are directly loyal to Nicolas J. Fuentes. That's what he says. And honestly, I don't know that that's not true.

[B]

Oh, I. 100%, I'm leaning towards that. That's true. Because of Christian nationalism and the text.

[A]

Message chain that came out that almost could have been taken verbatim off of an America first stream.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

So I mean it. And this is a big problem for J.D. vance, and it's a gigantic problem for Vivek Ramaswamy. A giant problem for Vivek Ramaswamy.

[B]

I'm really curious to see how J.D. i mean, we are seeing how J.D. vance is handling it. He's at Turning Point USA. He is asked a phenomenal question about immigration and about his wife and its religion. And he responds by saying, I wish she would convert. I wish she would abandon her religion and become a Christian. That's not the tune he was singing when he married her. So you're already seeing him outright say things that directly contradict his wife. I wonder at her beliefs and. And her values, and I just wonder how far he's going to take that. He's already. He's already willing to sacrifice all of that, all the personal, for his professional career.

[A]

Donnie put up this picture of Summer Walker.

[B]

Oh, Lord.

[A]

You see that album art right there? Finally over it. And it's her. With recreating Anna Nicole Smith's 1994 wedding photo. Anna Nicole Smith, if you guys don't know, if you're too young, she was a guest model who was kind of like a 90s Marilyn Monroe, like a real simple symbol.

[B]

Playboy guest Playboy, the whole nine.

[A]

She was in a movie called Skyscraper that I watched when I was a younger man, like in high school. I liked it very much. And. Yeah, so this means that maybe. And Somers talked about the fact that she only really likes to date men now to drain them of money.

[B]

Is that what she said?

[A]

She said that to Speedy?

[B]

I didn't know that. I mean, my first. You said what?

[A]

Shout out to Speedy. Mormon. She said that to Speedy.

[B]

I mean, my first, I guess, peek into that is when she walked the MTV Video Music Awards this year where she walked the carpet and she had an older white man with her and she wouldn't answer any questions specifically of it. I just figured she was just promoting something. And clearly she is. Now that we see the artwork on this album. I see that she says that the album, it's called Finally Over It. It's a two part album about the choices we have left. When true love feels impossible. One side chooses me, the other sacrifices love completely. For better or for worse. What am I supposed to say to it? I'm not mad at this. This is Summer Walker's choice. I guess she's been burnt out. I mean, if you listen to her music. Yeah, like she's suffered a lot of heartbreak. Whatever she's been doing in the past has not been working for her. So it sounds like she is trying something new. You know, I used to say jokingly to my parents that my first marriage was gonna be for money and my second marriage was gonna be for love. That clearly is not what I did. But I jokingly said that I understand, especially after what I've been through, I totally could understand how I could adopt a mentality like this. I think that when you've been burned really badly, some people go to the other extreme. That's not necessarily my thing. But I can understand how when you go through something bad and it burns you that you go to the other side of it. And so for her, she's like, listen, I might as well make the most of this. I might as well be rich and happy is what it sounds like for her. Than to be, I guess, be in love and get your heart broken. Which sounds like that's been her experience. And Matt, for better or for worse.

[A]

I think there's something that everybody has to do. I think people, particularly around relationships, people have to stop engaging into conversations people are having with themselves.

[B]

Okay. Cause this is a conversation with herself.

[A]

Conversation she's having with herself. Right. Stop getting in the middle of a conversation that somebody's having with Themselves. You see a tweet, and the tweet says, all niggas ain't shit. I'm gonna try to date women. Go with God. Good luck. You see a tweet that says it like, all women ain't shit. These hoes ain't good for nothing. We should just watch porn all day. Or, hey, congratulations. You see a tweet that says, hey, if somebody won't pay for my hair and my nails, then I can't really date them. Hey, fantastic. Hope you find them. Fantastic. What happens is people are having conversations with themselves. And there are groups of people that feel so indicted by those conversations that they jump in the middle of someone talking to themselves. You have a responsibility for your own happiness. And if happiness is your goal, and if connection is your goal, then you're going to have to be daring and vulnerable and resilient in that, ever more resilient in a world that is changing. And if one day you decide that's not worth it anymore, I completely get it. But everybody else that is allowing themselves to get triggered by decisions people are making for themselves, by reactions that people are having for themselves, you're doing yourself a disservice because you are internalizing somebody else's trauma at their situation, and you're making that trauma your reality.

[B]

Okay, I don't fully disagree with you, but I'll say is it's people having a conversation with themselves out loud. Your take is a very evolved take, right? Because we are now in our 40s, and we've been through a lot and more than maybe, like, the younger people who are listening to Summer Walker's music or even Summer Walker herself. Not to compare, but just if I'm just using age, she's having this conversation out loud, which means she's making everybody else privy to her thoughts, her songs, her lyrics. Cause this is all in the music as well, right? Her album, her art, the artwork, all of it. That's your take of being, you know, like, detached. That's them, whatever. There are people, similar to what I say about Lala, who will listen to Summer Walker and see what she's going through and say, hey, that really resonates with me. I'm going to adopt that mentality. So I would say that some people who respond to this and maybe get upset, it's not that they're triggered because, I don't know, maybe they're internalizing it. It might be that they are subjected to dating women who might adopt this mentality, and then they feel like. Or man, adopt this Mentality. And so it's like, well, you're. You're assuming something about me, the worst of me, when I haven't even been able to show you the best of me. Because you've adopted this mentality. Does that make sense?

[A]

It makes sense that what you're. I mean, what you're saying is what I'm telling people not to do, right?

[B]

Kind of like when women are like, my man better do this, this, this, and this. And another woman's like, you know what? I'm gonna adopt that same thing. You gotta, like the. I don't know if we ever got to this conversation, but the woman who was like, I'm charging you for your time if you talk to me, or whatever. Yeah.

[A]

Oh, yeah, we never talked to me.

[B]

So some woman might. Some people might be like, you know what? That's a good idea. And then that trickles down to how they date, you know, men. And it's like, well, you're adopting this mentality because it sounds good to you, not because, you know, you might be internalizing. Well, I guess it is a form of internalizing her trauma. But it, in turn affects the person that's trying to date you. It creates maybe this group mentality of assuming that this is how men are. Because Summer Walker's going through this thing, and that is a. So I guess I'm in essence saying what you're saying. But is it wrong for somebody? We do this all the time with music. Whether it's rap, whether it's R and B, whatever type of genre you listen to. Or maybe it's a. Something that comes out in a movie or a TV show. We do this all the time. People are saying their thoughts out loud. And people adopt that mentality, and they internalize it or they don't.

[A]

What do we call somebody that endeavors into the gangsta lifestyle because they heard it in a rap song?

[B]

A poser.

[A]

What I'm telling people is that, man, like, first of all, you don't have to listen to me. But what I'm saying is that, like, none of this is guaranteed. There's not a storybook ending for people in their marriages or whatever. There's no manual for life. There's no manual for love. There's no manual for connection. There's no manual for any of it.

[B]

Right? There can't be.

[A]

There's no way to do. To do it. There's no way to react to it. There is who you are, what you're willing to sacrifice, what you're willing to.

[D]

Give.

[A]

And how you're willing to show up, and that's a thing between you and another person. Like, we don't love in tag teams. Like, we don't. It's not you and your boy and how y'. All, it's you and a person. If there is a woman that you feel like is worth you paying for her hair and nails to get to know her, pay it. If you feel like that's. Pay it. Like, pay it. If that's too far for you, don't pay it. If there is. If there is someone for a woman, if there is a man that you feel like is worth splitting a meal to get to know, do it. If that is a deal breaker for you, then no. But what's happening now is that these conversations around this stuff, they're callousing people. They're making people believe that some of their worst thoughts about love and connection are true.

[B]

Hasn't this always been present in art?

[A]

The art is not necessarily what I'm talking about. Well, I would argue that art was about heartbreak, but particularly R and B back in the day used to be about the lengths that men would go through to get women. Hip hop changed that. Like R and B used to be about how much you would be willing to do to be with a woman. It was.

[B]

It was about cheating.

[A]

Some of it was.

[B]

But I'm talking about, like, it wasn't just that.

[A]

No, but. But a lot of that music was in celebration, direct celebration of love. Like, there's always been stuff that was about me and Mrs. Jones and all of that stuff.

[B]

That's what I was thinking.

[A]

There's always. But a lot of that stuff was direct celebration of love and lionizing women and the relationships that men had with women and the relationship. All of that, how much you're willing to do. Like, all of that. You know, all of that stuff, right? What it meant to be with one woman and all, a lot of that stuff was about that hip hop market corrected that. Hip hop came in. I am the prize, Bitches ain't shit. Everything changed. And so. And so to me, not all hip hop, but some of the more popular hip hop, it changed all of that stuff. What people didn't see is that a lot of those rappers got married, but they still kept.

[B]

But they still kept talking about the lifestyle or living it.

[A]

Some of them, yeah. But a lot of. If they were living a lifestyle about married to a woman, they were essentially no different than their grandfathers and a lot of times their fathers.

[D]

Right.

[A]

Like, there's never been a period where this was a moral thing, the family unit was much more important for myriad reasons, because women didn't have other choices and because men. Marriage was seen as a big deal for a man to have. You had to have stability and that's a part of that. Right. So there's a changing view of that. Now. What doesn't change, and I keep trying to say this, is that men and women need each other like that. Like I keep hearing from women that I know that they don't need men.

[B]

Okay, let's hear that.

[A]

And I hear incessant complaints about the quality of men.

[B]

Let's get into that. Cause that goes into this. There's this viral article that was in Vogue. It was by a UK writer, Shantae Joseph, and it sparked a lot of online debate, very similar to what you're talking to. And the article was titled is having a boyfriend embarrassing Now? It starts off talking about how social media content used to so much be about showing off your relationship and your boyfriend and. Or your man, partner, lover, whatever, husband, and glorifying that. And people fed into that. They ideally wanted to achieve that. Yeah, like it was like the romanticizing of it was cool and it would get you followers and all of this. And there was couples content and people would tap into it. I remember even when, when I was in a relationship, that's something that he wanted to do that I did not want to do because it was profitable also in ways a lot of brands like to buy into a successful couple. And. And, and what? The lifestyle that people presented because people loved. See that now. And this is the basis of this article. Things have shifted in 2025 from that where people seem to. If they have boyfriends, they hide that lifestyle, according to this writer. Or they'll just show a hand or they'll say they're on a trip, but they won't show the person that they're with. Or they won't even acknowledge they have a boyfriend because they're saying that the response from their followers is negative. Like, oh, why are you centering your boyfriend? Why do you even need a man? Almost playing into the independent women. Women have each other. They don't need men. And you also. I get a lot of content on my social media where it is having a man's life is prolonged with a woman. A woman's life. A woman loses years when she stays married to a man. There's a lot of that. And I don't know if that's true psychology or what, but I get a lot of that kind of social media content that comes on my feed or that women are deciding not to have boyfriends and they just, you know, it's. They glorify and romanticize the single life. So there's a lot of that rhetoric going along around. And that is what she wrote this article about and how times have changed to your point. For a woman, back then, marriage was kind of a form of survival for women. Women couldn't open bank accounts, women couldn't get houses in their names. There were things women couldn't do without being attached to a man. That does not exist anymore. Women weren't. Men still don't necessarily make as much as men. But women are way more independent, way more self sufficient without needing a man by their side. So that also takes away from having to glorify or centering a man in your life where there is really this notion of kind of counter to what Summer Walker is saying. Women don't need men to be happy when so long your worth or your happiness was tied to a man. Thoughts?

[A]

Okay, couple of things. Number one, social media makes everything high. Leverage. So you go to the gym, you box, you feel good about your boxing, you put it on social media. Fat bitch, nigga, keep your left hand up. Hey, let me tell you the Russian style. So then you look at something that you really liked and were proud of, which was your jab, which the coach is in the boxing gym with you, and the coach understands you. The coach understands that when you came in there, you were throwing your jab and then you were bringing your hand back low and you were getting tagged on the counter. The coach gets it. The coach knows that you guys got in there. And for the first five rounds of ten round shadow boxing, you threw a hundred jabs around. So when you throw your jab, it comes right back to your chin. It does not look like Roy Jones Jr. Is his jab. It does not look like he didn't really jab that much. It does not look like Floyd's jab. It doesn't look like Oleksandr Usyk's jab. Those are professional fighters. But it's your jab and the coach knows it's your jab. So the coach and the intimate relationship that you have with the coach understands not that you have a perfect jab, but that it's much better than it used to be. So you see that and you're like, oh my God, I'mma put my motherfucking jab on there. Because when I put it out there, the shit is going right. I Feel so good about it. And then what do you hear? Fat bitch? What you jabbing? You jab like a bitch. I'll fuck you up. I've been like. And then you go, fuck it. No more jab. Like, no more of that stuff. Like, no more, no more. Because the Internet is a. Makes everything high leverage. Everyone is a boxing coach. Everyone is a relationship expert. Everyone is a music expert. Everyone is a psychologist. Everyone knows the type of leash you should be using for your dog. Everyone, everyone, everyone, everyone. And there are certain things on there that you simply do not want people encroaching upon and talking about because they don't know what the fuck they're talking about. If you do decide to be a part of that and put that stuff on there, then just deal with a lot of people who don't know your life at all feeling like they can have an opinion on it. That weighs heavily. You put a basketball. I can tell you can't help, bitch. You know what I'm saying? Everything becomes about that. So I completely understand people going, you know what? Maybe I don't want you having an opinion on my vacation. Maybe I don't want you telling me where I should have gone or what I should do. Because if this ends, then you go through all of the pictures. This is when I knew they were fucked up. This is this. This is that. This is when I knew this happened. And it's something that. It's a drag, especially when you're going through, like, real shit. Like. And it's a weird thing to do because, like, I've talked about my father's death so much. But I've also decided that I'm not gonna post my dad on the anniversary of his death anymore because it's a weird thing to do for me. At first I did it because the condolences from people and actually the energy made me feel really good. But all it takes, all it takes is for one person, for two people, for a half of a person to say something kind of negative, for every single emotion that you're feeling to be magnified, and for you to really, really feel like shit. So anyone that is manicuring their social media or handling it in a specific way, I completely get it. As far as the other part of it, men and women needing each other. I'm going to let people figure that out because I'm not gonna get into telling women what I feel like they need. But I'm gonna tell you something like this. Let me say this. I can't speak to whether or not women need men. I can't speak to that. I can tell you something though. Men need women.

[B]

Oh, that's what they say.

[A]

And men need women because in my opinion, there are traits that women possess things that they are good at that men aren't as good at. There are ways that women see the world, both ways that they see the world from a socialization standpoint, ways that they see the world that I believe is part of things that are pro evolutionary that men need. And also there is a specific relationship that men have with other men that is rooted in competition. It's rooted in competition. It's rooted in I love you, you're my guy. But we compete. Even if it's just playful sometimes your woman represents someone that you can love out of competition that you do not have to worry about. That is what has changed. What has changed is a lot of men now feel the need to compete with their women. They feel the need not to be vulnerable with their women, but to compete with them in the same way they compete in with their boys.

[B]

Do you know why some of that I think exists? Because of the way women are in 2025 versus the way that they may have been in 1975. And I think that those men who feel the need to compete, it's obviously an insecurity within themselves, but they are playing into certain stereotypes that they believe a woman needs to be. And if a woman is not that for them, then they start to compete with her rather than not dimming her light, uplifting and realizing that it's a partnership. And you guys can do this back and forth, right? Just because. Just because a woman might not be, I guess fitting into a certain stereotype professionally or career wise, doesn't mean that she can't be vulnerable. And that partner that you need as well, she could be both of those things, just like he can be both of those things. I think those men, and obviously, you know, I've been through it, they have this idea of what a marriage is supposed to be and the way a woman is supposed to fit into that. And I think that you have to change that the way that you are thinking a woman is supposed to be. Just like you said. I can't remember how you said it, but it's like every. There's no manual, there's no handbook. It's different for each and every person. I think what's changed with women, and this I will agree with when you say, you know, I will say I like having a man in my life for whatever, for various reasons But I do not believe in centering a man in my life and making my man my world, which is what I believe women were taught, even myself as growing up. I remember when I left college, I was told, it's gonna be hard for you to find a husband now. And that was just the mentality of not saying that. I was told to go to college to get my Mrs. Degree, but a lot of women were, it was, oh, well, now you're gonna be entering the workforce, you're gonna be seen as a professional. It's just gonna be a lot harder for you to be to find a man. That was the mentality and it was almost programmed into you just as equally as you are successful. Your success is not complete until you have a man. You are not fulfilled. You cannot be fully happy unless you find a man. That mentality has changed. So as much as I like having a man in my life and I want to, I will not center a man. I will not sacrifice my own well being for just to have a man in my life. And I won't compromise the things that I want for myself or lose myself in a relationship anymore just to have a man by my side. And I think that might be a little bit what this article is missing and what sometimes gets lost in the conversation. It's okay to say you want a partner, you like having a man, but your man doesn't have to be your world. You should compliment each other. It should be a partnership. One of the biggest lessons I have learned from getting married and then getting divorced is I never had a partner in my relationship. I had a person. And so when people ask me, do you think you'll get married again? I say, I don't know. But I know at the end of the day, I want somebody who is a partner, not someone who's just filling a spot because I think I need a man in my life.

[A]

We should devote a whole episode to this and I'll tell you why. I think women were taught to center a man and they were also we were. I think I know that they were. I think that there is an equal and opposite deal to that. And not equal, but at least an opposite deal. In my father's generation, I don't know any men that weren't married. I don't know any men that weren't married. I don't my father's generation. I don't know any perpetual, eternal bachelors, except for like men who were like stars, like Frank Sinatra type niggas. And even though those guys flirted with Marriage and got married and all of that stuff. I don't know any guys that weren't married. Because a part of your identity as a man was having a family. So your wife wasn't necessarily centered, but your family was. Your family was centered because it was a part of an extension of your kingship. Right. And I think if we go back to something, one reason why men feel like they're in competition with women is because they are now.

[B]

You mean now?

[A]

Yeah. It's not that you shouldn't be competing with your girl. Right. You shouldn't be competing with your girl. But the reality is, is that, like, as women took different roles in society, they wanted to compete with men like they wanted to compete with men. Men reacted to that competition in saying that I have to make sure that I maintain some sort of financial, intellectual, societal superiority or I don't have any worth. Because as a man, what am I if I'm not a leader? What am I if I'm not an anchor? Like, what do I have to be? Men, like, women tend to not respect men who aren't successful. They tend to not respect men who aren't desirable, or at least that's the belief. So if I'm not those things, then what do I do? So what ended up happening was the feeling that you had to not exalt a woman as far as prioritize her, to make her your wife, to do all of these things. Even if those marriages that we're talking about were all kinds of fucked up, and I know that they were, there are still people that felt like they were in some way, like, happy wife, happy life. Like, they had to care about the women that they were in their life. Now they feel like they have to like. And maybe they did then, too. I don't know. I can only speak to what's going on now. They feel like they have to cut them down to size a little bit, that it's kind of in order for.

[B]

Them to be the biggest.

[A]

In order for them to have, because their worth is in that. And I will be honest with you, the message is confusing to a lot of people. Like, it is confusing to be in a situation to where there is one part of patriarchy that is upheld and there's one part of patriarchy that is expected. Like, I make more money. That is patriarchy. So when we go someplace, I should pay for it. So I should pay into patriarchy. Right. Because that makes sense to. But at the same time, I should also understand that that is meaningless and that there is. I'M not saying this right. What I'm saying is I don't think that there's been enough sophisticated education to me on men's self worth, on your worth as a human being, as a person, and how that worth can be enhanced in relationship with a companion. Like not your worth as a provider, not your worth as a protector, your worth as a human being on the earth. And that, that is unassailable. And the worth of your woman, of the person that is with you, her worth is in the fact that she is a sentient person, that she is a person with ideas and thoughts and talents and abilities. And that is the thing outside of what society expects from you, outside of what society expects from her, there is worth that she has, not as a woman, but as a person. And so to me, when I look at all of this stuff, this kind of stuff is clouding that. This kind of stuff is saying, well, yeah, you're a person with all of this stuff, but you're also a person that I should expect specific things from. And if you don't do those things, then you're less of a person. I find a different person that does them. Okay, if that works for you, that's fine. But what I'm. I'm trying to tell my niggas, a lot of them, there's going to be a girl that is going to smile and laugh in a way, and you're not going to be able to forget it. And there's not going to be anything that you can fucking do. There's going to be nothing that you can do. Like, I don't know why it happens. You just can't do shit. Like, there's a girl that's going to say something and you're just going to be like, fuck. And it's not gonna matter. There's gonna be nothing you can do. You're going to feel away. And she might not have the biggest ass or be the finest or be the one that all of your niggas wanted. It almost is never that. There's just a thing that gets you. And if you don't let it get you because of something that's superficial, that's on you. And you will immiserate yourself, be open to the happiness. And then to add to that, that girl is going to say something one time and you're going to be like, nah, I got it. And then she's going to be right. And then you go. And then you're going to go back to her. You're going to go all Right. Well, damn. What you think about this situation? Is it okay if I say something about it? Yeah. Give me your opinion. She's gonna be right. You're gonna realize she sees things that your niggas don't see. You're gonna realize that she picks up on shit that other motherfuckers didn't pick up on. And then you gonna remember that your mama could do that same thing and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I know this seems like romantic bullshit, but it's just facts. And all of y', all, with all of these conversations out here and all of this shit, you missing out on the smiles and the giggles. You missing them. But have at it. I don't give a fuck. All right? Have at it. Hope it works out. Robust podcast. Bernard come into frame every. Come here, y'. All. This is Bernard. He's working with us on higher learning now.

[B]

Give it up for Bernard.

[A]

Give it up for Bernard. Bernard, have you on the show, Bernard.

[B]

Part of the higher learning family.

[A]

Part of the higher learning family. Bernard, right there. Say. Say what's up again.

[D]

How you guys doing?

[A]

Bernard used to be, you know, you can go now. It's not about. Bernard Used to work in the front and now he's working with us. We're happy to have him. Take your think caps off, but do not stop learning. I'm Dan Lathan Jr.

[B]

I'm Rachel and Lindsay.

[A]

Bye, guys.