Higher Learning with Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay

Episode: The Venezuela Takeover. Plus, a Conversation About Adin Ross, Doechii, and Black Men.

Date: January 6, 2026
Podcast: The Ringer

Overview

In this multifaceted episode, Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay explore the week’s most pressing issues in Black culture and politics. The show touches on the ongoing crisis and U.S. intervention in Venezuela (with guest Ryan Grim dissecting U.S. motives and impacts), dissects recent conversations and drama concerning streaming personality Adin Ross, artist Doechii, and the treatment of Black women, and debates the weighty role of the Black church following a viral moment involving Pastor Jamal Bryant. The hosts also explore new lawsuits targeting prominent Black entertainers and interrogate how the public processes allegations against beloved figures. Throughout, Van and Rachel maintain their dynamic mix of humor, candor, and sharp cultural critique.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Personal Check-Ins and Mental Health (00:08–03:18)

• Van and Rachel reflect on a mellow New Year’s, both sharing personal journeys around focus and mental health.
  • Van expresses his need to manage his ADHD and shift from distraction to execution:

    "My focus is different and it has nothing to do with the new year. It has more to do with the just crippling midlife crisis that I'm having right now... I've been neglecting the fact that I suffer from crippling ADHD." (00:44)

  • Rachel reveals she’s getting tested for ADHD, noting how her structure in a busy legal career may have masked symptoms.

2. Van’s Vivid Dreams and Their Meanings (04:46–14:42)

• Van recounts two intense dreams: one about starring in a surreal, racially charged film called “Niggers in the Ocean,” and another about crashing in a “Sprint Airlines” school bus-plane hybrid.
  • The first dream “felt like being forced into something for others’ benefit,” especially with his father pressuring him to do a distasteful sequel for $10 million.
  • The second dream left Van stranded in darkness, wondering if he’d survived, feeding into his anxiety and sense of existential unease.
• Rachel suggests the dreams are Van’s subconscious telling him not to compromise himself:

  "I wonder if you're feeling forced to do something in real life that you don't feel like you should do..." (13:38)

• Both agree on the power and meaning of dreams, with Rachel emphasizing, “every dream is trying to tell you something.” (14:15)

3. The Venezuela "Takeover": History, Motives & Geopolitics (With Guest: Ryan Grim) (60:36–98:12)

A. Why Did the U.S. Move on Venezuela? (61:40–67:34)

• Ryan Grim analyzes U.S. motivation for removing Maduro, ranking the reasons:
  1. U.S. desire to crush left-wing revolutionary movements in Latin America.
  2. Oil access/control.
  3. Countering Chinese and Russian influence.
• Notably, he points to Marco Rubio’s “monomaniacal” obsession with Cuba/Venezuela as an overlooked factor driving policy.

B. The Monroe Doctrine Revived (65:48–67:34)

• Rachel asks about the Monroe Doctrine:

  “It relates to kind of the takeover of the Western hemisphere or asserting dominance... Why is Trump throwing that term out there?” (65:48)

• Ryan responds: Trump is uniquely explicit about U.S. hemispheric dominance:

  “No president has ever been as explicit… saying, ‘We run this.’” (67:14)

C. Who Runs Venezuela Now? (69:34–73:03)

• With Maduro gone but the regime present, Delsey Rodríguez is technically in charge—though U.S. interests (mainly oil) lead Trump to threaten full control.

  • "It's not really regime change, is it? It's... president change.” (69:37, Ryan Grim)

  • Oil extraction remains years off due to Venezuela’s decrepit industry, but U.S. Gulf Coast refineries benefit uniquely from Venezuela’s heavy crude.

D. Congress, Legality & Executive Power (73:03–75:35)

• Trump acted without congressional approval and broke the law, Ryan stresses.

  “He just did it and he completely broke the law... they just straight up lied to Congress.” (73:51, 75:35)

E. Is Maduro Legitimate? Are Venezuelans Celebrating? (75:35–82:25)

• Complex question. 2024 elections were likely fraudulent, but Maduro retains a large support base.
• Contrary to narratives, Venezuelans inside the country are not celebrating, and protests have been largely against U.S. intervention, not for it.

F. Fallout: International Geopolitical Dynamics (82:25–89:19)

• China/Russia have limited strategic need for Venezuela but are happy for the U.S. to set this precedent—it weakens America’s moral position on territorial integrity (e.g., Taiwan, Ukraine).

G. Prospects for Regional Expansion & Uprisings (86:22–89:19)

• Trump’s rhetoric suggests more intervention (“Cuba sick, Colombia sick”).
• Cuba: Decades of U.S. sanctions have normalized suffering, draining its youth and minimizing odds of real upheaval.

H. Iran: Likelihood of Unrest (89:19–92:19)

• Significant protests persist, but the government’s deep structures prevent outright regime change for now.

[Notable Quotes - Venezuela Segment]

• Van (on U.S. motives):

  “China, oil, and US regional hegemony — if you’re gonna rate those three things, which…?” (61:40)

• Ryan Grim:

  “It took all of the things you mentioned, plus Marco Rubio’s lifelong fever dream about rolling back the Cuban Revolution...” (62:10) “No president has ever been as explicit as [Trump]... saying, ‘we run this’.” (67:14)

4. Crime Drops in Major U.S. Cities (14:42–29:18)

• Van points out substantial drops in violent crime (31% in D.C., 30% in Chicago, 21% in NY) and asks why President Trump isn’t taking credit.

  • Rachel argues crime reduction is an ongoing trend post-pandemic and “fear-mongering” is key to Trump’s narrative.
  • Van expands: the GOP can’t credit Black leadership in cities or policies that undermine their DEI attacks.

    “Part of Trumpism is the DEI orthodoxy of Black incompetence... these people are not supposed to be examples of American success.” (22:41)

• Rachel predicts Trump will ultimately claim credit once it serves his purposes.

5. The Black Church Debate: Jamal Bryant & Viral Dress Moment (34:14–59:48)

• Rachel and Van react to Pastor Jamal Bryant’s viral pulpit defense of his wife’s “revealing” gown at a UNCF event.
  • Jamal Bryant responds (audio played):

    "Jealous, petty, small winded. People got in their feelings and set up a false barometer of holiness based off of a dress... The dress was not see through, the dress was flesh colored." (38:25)

  • Van jokes about putting the needy in “sexy, revealing clothes” to finally spur the church to action on real issues.
• Rachel: Appreciates Bryant’s defense of his wife, but critiques his pulpit remarks as narcissistic and unnecessarily condescending:

  “To my point, I don’t know how many churchgoers, specifically to his church, had a problem... to address haters to me is centering yourself.” (44:15)

  • Both dissect the “deification” of pastors, celebrity, money, and church’s responsibilities to their communities.
  • Key Debate: Is a sense of superiority necessary for “successful” Black pastoring? Does the Black church’s wealth benefit its people?

6. Crime, Policing, and Internal Black Critique (29:18–34:14)

• Van vents frustration over respectability politics and intra-Black criticism, exclaiming:

  “I'm so sick of you fucking niggas... If you call my phone with the respectability politics, I’m gonna call you a nigger in the ocean and hang the fuck up.” (28:31)

• Rachel agrees it's important to call out harmful narratives spread within the Black community, especially when shared outside the community.

7. Allegations Against Will Smith & Tyler Perry (98:13–122:32)

• Both discuss recent lawsuits accusing Will Smith and Tyler Perry of sexual misconduct—often taking markedly different readings of scant details.
  • Rachel criticizes misleading headlines and suggests nuances in claims against Will Smith are easily lost; Van focuses on how public perception is shaped by homophobia and celebrity status:

  “If there was no entrenched homophobia... these stories would probably hit a lot harder.” (108:52)

  • Rachel contends Tyler Perry’s cultural significance makes it difficult for some in the Black community to believe accusations; Van counters that Perry is often the butt of jokes and not shielded by universal adoration.

8. Adin Ross, Doechii, and Black Men's Cultural Responsibility (124:00–153:41)

The Streamer Feud

• Event: Streamer Adin Ross insulted rapper Doechii with misogynistic slurs after perceiving a song as a diss. Glasses Malone publicly rebuked Ross and threatened consequences—sparking debate on intra-Black accountability vs. interlopers in Black culture.
  • Van frames the conflict as white influencers, enabled by elements of Black culture, disrespecting Black women without repercussions:

    “What you want us to do? There are people... operating inside Black culture... doing some of the most demeaning, degrading, despicable things…” (127:31)

  • Rachel argues the core issue is the enablement of people like Ross by Black men and the hypocrisy of industry figures supporting such behavior:

    “Of course he feels like he can insert himself [into] the culture because the culture continues to back him up. If we’re going to have this energy for Adin, we got to have this energy for everybody who continues to answer his phone calls and have his back…” (132:16)

  • Van grows frustrated with the frequent collective critiques of Black men, feeling even “in a story where a Black man is the hero, it all comes back to how fucked up we are.” (142:59)
  • Rachel clarifies she’s critiquing specific individuals:

    “I am talking about a particular type of Black man. Because you’re not all the same.” (149:41)

Notable exchange:

• Van:

  “What you want us to do?… If you don’t respect a gentleman, you create a caveman. So what the fuck do you want?” (131:29)

• Rachel:

  “Two things can be true... You have to talk about why Adin Ross feels like he can do this, and it’s because people have made him feel comfortable.” (140:14)

Intra-Community Critiques

• The discussion escalates into deeper, at times raw confessions of exhaustion over persistent internal critique within Black America.
• Van: “I am a human being... God damn, this is getting to be a lot.” (152:54)
• Rachel: “I was talking about a particular type of person, a particular type of Black man. Because you’re not all the same.” (149:41)

Notable Quotes and Moments

Dream Segment:

• Van: “I was both in a movie and then talking about the movie at the same time. I'm experiencing the movie that I am in. And I'm also talking to my father…” (05:56)
• Rachel: “Every dream is trying to tell you something. I'm a big believer in that.” (14:15)

Brazil/Crime Segment:

• Van: “Part of Trumpism is the DEI orthodoxy of black incompetence. Right. So... these people are not supposed to be examples of American success...” (22:41)
• Rachel: “He has to make people feel like they are in danger, that things are terrible, and the only person who can fix it and save it is him and his administration.” (20:24)

On policing crime:

• Van: “One reason why crime is going down... is because people care about crime going down in these places.” (27:20)

On intra-community critique:

• Van: “If you call my phone, the next nigga that call my phone with the respectability politics, I'm gonna call you a nigger in the ocean and hang the fuck up.” (28:33)

Jamal Bryant/Black Church:

• Jamal Bryant (audio): “Jealous, petty, small winded. People got in there feelings and set up a false barometer of holiness based off of a dress…” (38:25)
• Rachel: “...to take time to away from church activities or a sermon to address haters, to me, is centering yourself...” (44:15)
• Van: “The pastor of a church... that's a leadership position. So it's an aspirational position. [...] The best ones that I hear always make themselves one of the many.” (48:18)

Adin Ross Segment:

• Glasses Malone (audio): “You can't do that. You can't do that. How you gonna think you popping and talking about that sister?” (126:04)
• Van: “...what are we to do with people that are operating inside of this or at least tangential to it and being so disrespectful to things that we... energetically value?” (127:31)
• Rachel: “Aiden Ross doesn't feel like this because he's white. Aiden Ross feels like this because he has the support... particularly from Black men. In order to do this.” (132:16)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Intro & Mental Health: 00:08–03:18
• Dream Segment: 04:46–14:42
• Crime Drops & Policing: 14:42–29:18
• Intra-Black Critique: 29:18–34:14
• Jamal Bryant/Black Church: 34:14–59:48
• Venezuela Takeover with Ryan Grim: 60:36–98:12
• Lawsuits (Will Smith, Tyler Perry): 98:13–122:32
• Aiden Ross, Doechii, Intra-Community Dynamics: 124:00–153:41

Episode Tone

The hosts blend humor and sharp critique, toggling between vulnerability (on dreams and mental health), righteous anger (over social narratives and intra-community respectability politics), and deep dives into policy and cultural analysis. The recurring theme is the challenge and exhaustion of holding space for complex truths within Black America—especially under the gaze of both mainstream power and internal critics.

Additional Highlights

• Van and Rachel openly discuss their ADHD and personal development.
• Thoughtful debates around the Black church’s enormous wealth and its accountabilities.
• Transparent reflection on the complexity and limits of intra-community criticisms.
• Insightful, detailed breakdowns of evolving U.S. foreign policy toward Latin America and its global reverberations.

For listeners: This episode stands out for its candid look at how national news, pop culture, and intra-Black dynamics constantly intersect—and for unflinching debate on responsibility, vulnerability, and power, both personal and collective.