Higher Learning with Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay

Episode: "Vaccines, Who Needs 'Em? Plus, Nina Westbrook and the Wellness App, Nebbi"

Date: September 9, 2025

Episode Overview

In this episode, Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay unpack a variety of pressing topics, from controversies in progressive media over donor transparency, to a viral baseball game incident that raised questions about gender and race dynamics. The highlight of the episode is a candid, in-depth interview with Nina Westbrook—licensed marriage and family therapist and wife of NBA star Russell Westbrook—about her new mental wellness app, Nebbi, and broader themes around mental health in relationships. They also debate Florida’s plan to end all vaccine mandates, discuss celebrity culture, and examine the fallout from leaked jailhouse phone calls involving rapper Young Thug.

1. Covid Surge & The 'Wired Article' Fallout

[00:12–13:13]

Key Points:

• Rachel opens up about getting sick amid a new Covid surge, noting a sense of collective fatigue:
  "Step outside. Boom, Bam. Sick."
• Van highlights how journalist Taylor Lorenz uses every media appearance—even amid controversy about her Wired exposé—to remind audiences, “Covid is back. Mask up.”
• The Wired article allegedly uncovered that major left-leaning content creators were receiving funding from dark money groups, sparking a debate about independence and messaging on the left.
  • “The article...is tearing the left apart. Everybody’s at each other’s throat.” (Van, 00:37)
• Van and Rachel clarify their own platform’s relationship to corporate sponsorship, stressing that while they are not “independent media,” they are not told what they can or can’t say:
  • “We are funded by a corporation. If I come out tomorrow and devote an entire podcast to X personal life...somebody's gonna say something. So we should let people know.” (Van, 07:37)
• The two debate whether taking funding compromises “independent media,” and the importance of transparency about funding sources and editorial independence.

Notable Quote:
"If you're taking money from a fund you don't know, you might be taking money from people who don't want you to talk about Palestine...or go against Big Oil."
— Van Lathan, [11:08]

2. Viral Baseball Game & "Karen" Culture

[14:22–27:28]

Key Points:

• Donnie relates a viral incident at a Phillies/Marlins game where a woman aggressively demanded a home run ball from a father who’d given it to his son. The man chose to deescalate and give her the ball.
• Rachel praises the father's restraint as a good example of modeling conflict resolution for his son, particularly given the gender dynamic of the confrontation.
• Van reflects on whether the response would change depending on the race and gender of those involved, highlighting the fraught optics for Black men in confrontational public situations.
  • “If it was a white lady, I cannot acquiesce to the caringness. I can't do it.” (Van, 17:23)
• The hosts delve into the societal expectation for men, especially Black men, to "be more than a person," and show extra restraint in confrontations.
  • “I have to be better than you...there's no accountability there [for her]." (Van, 26:57)

Memorable Quote:
“We've seen Karens call the police on people...try to get Black people killed. But for some reason, this one—kid at a kid-appropriate place, somebody trying to steal from a child—this angered people to such a degree.”
— Van Lathan, [20:15]

3. Texas Democratic Senate Race

[28:08–43:18]

Key Points:

• State Rep. James Talarico’s expected Senate bid is discussed in light of his broad appeal and fresh approach in Texas politics.
• Both hosts believe Talarico could outperform Colin Allred in the primary thanks to his ability to appeal to both moderates and progressives, particularly his integration of faith and politics.
• Van worries about the “national celebrity” problem for young progressives—success outside Texas doesn’t always translate into local political infrastructure or support.
• They speculate about possible endorsements—particularly Joe Rogan—and the complexities of shifting political allegiances within influencer spheres.
  • “That entire...manosphere podcasting ecosystem, you made MAGA cool.” (Van, 36:04)
• Van emphasizes the need for a robust and unequivocal rejection of Trumpism and authoritarianism by any serious candidate or influencer.
  • “I need a rebuke of MAGA-ism...not ‘taxes are cool,’ not ‘Trump is funny.’” (Van, 43:22)

4. Interview: Nina Westbrook & the Nebbi App

[58:14–97:50]

4.1. Nina's Background & Mission

[58:14–63:10]

• Nina details her journey from UCLA English major to licensed marriage and family therapist.
• The Westbrooks’ dedication to advocacy around mental health is rooted in their personal and family values, extending to community work and youth mentoring.

4.2. Mental Health & Relationships

[63:10–76:33]

• Rachel asks about the role of therapy and communication in sustaining a successful relationship. Nina shares how she and Russell Westbrook, from very different backgrounds, learned to make mental health and communication foundational to their partnership.

4.3. The Nebbi App—Purpose & Features

[65:36–73:53]

• Nina introduces Nebbi, a daily wellness app designed to make evidence-based mental health tools accessible, simple, and non-intimidating.
• The app focuses on quick daily check-ins, emotion identification, and bite-sized tasks—all grounded in Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT) principles.
• Rachel shares her own positive experience using Nebbi:
  • “What I love about the app… it doesn’t feel invasive, but it feels like a friend I’m talking to.” (Rachel, 68:00)
• Nebbi is differentiated from AI-based “therapy bots” by ensuring data privacy and clinician-led guidance.

4.4. Relationship Wellness—Key Insights

[74:32–80:23]

• Nina debunks the idea of “being your partner’s peace,” emphasizing that fulfillment must come from within:
  • “You have to be your own peace. You can’t rely on someone else to bring you peace because they can decide to take that peace away.” (Nina, 74:32)
• She encourages listeners to seek companionship, but not as a remedy for feelings of “incompleteness.”

4.5. On Criticism, Social Media, and NBA Life

[81:00–89:02]

• Nina shares how she and Russell navigate intense public scrutiny and criticism, crediting their grounded family life and strong core relationships.
  • “For all the hate you hear, there’s so much more love—people that we actually know and care about… We can’t hear the hate from the Amalfi Coast.” (Van, 87:18, paraphrasing)
• Nina extols the importance of privacy, emotional honesty, and having trusted confidants.

4.6. Practical Mental Health Routines

[90:53–96:45]

• Nina’s top tip: just do a daily check-in; awareness is transformational, even in under a minute.
• When supporting someone through emotional difficulty, she advises: “The best thing that you can do...is just listen and be kind.” (Nina, 94:36)

5. Florida Plans to End ALL Vaccine Mandates

[101:11–116:50]

Key Points:

• Florida Surgeon General Joseph Ladapo announced plans to end all vaccine mandates for children, labeling them “wrong and drips with disdain and slavery.”
  • Rachel and Van blast the rhetoric, calling it a dangerous, dishonest politicization of public health.
  • “This is so scary… You're doing it for claps and cheers and to satisfy a certain audience… not protecting the children.” (Rachel, 104:34)
• Van gives a mini-history lesson on smallpox and vaccines, highlighting Black and Indigenous innovation in immunization, and decries how anti-vax movements exploit distrust in medical institutions.
  • “It was our ancestors that actually invented the vaccine… and now I'm watching a Black man stand up and be used as a puppet.” (Van, 112:28)
• Both hosts warn that undoing vaccine mandates—spurred by misinformation from Covid debates—could lead to the return of deadly childhood diseases.

Memorable Quote:
“They leverage the cultural fear that Black people have of some of the scientific institutions in America that have failed us, and they turn that around… we have some of the highest levels of skepticism, when really it was our ancestors that actually invented the vaccine.”
— Van Lathan, [112:28]

6. Notable Segments & Cultural Commentary

6.1. “Glaze of the Week” (Obsessive Celebrity Fandom)

[119:06–126:26]

• The team roasts news that a Brazilian businessman left Neymar, the soccer star, $1.1 billion dollars in his will purely because he admired him, calling it “one of the greatest dick rides I’ve ever seen.”
  • “You could build all kinds of schools … but you left it to a ‘kicker of the ball’.” (Van, 121:11)
• Rachel and Van debate the media’s role in amplifying celebrity worship.

6.2. Young Thug Jail Call Leaks

[126:31–142:54]

• Young Thug’s private jailhouse phone calls were leaked, revealing him talking candidly (sometimes negatively) about other rappers and discussing personal drama.
• Rachel and Van question the ethics of leaking such calls, the difference between “private” and “expectation of privacy” in jail, and how much leaked trash-talk reflects someone’s true feelings.
  • “It’s in him. This is who he is. So if I'm listening to it and I hear my name, this is how he feels.” (Rachel, 138:20)
• Discussion of Atlanta’s unique hip hop camaraderie—now possibly over due to the leaks.
• The hosts reflect on “street” authenticity and caution against glorifying street life when it’s not one’s lived reality.

Notable Quotes (with Timestamps)

• “Covid is back. Make sure you guys know that.” — Van, [02:15] (on Taylor Lorenz)
• “You have to be your own peace.” — Nina Westbrook, [74:32]
• “For all the hate that you hear, there's so much more love… we can't hear the hate from the Amalfi Coast.” — Van (paraphrasing), [87:18]
• “Who am I as a government… to tell you what you should put in your body?” — Dr. Joseph Ladapo (via clip), [101:45]
• “They leverage the cultural fear… when really it was our ancestors that actually invented the vaccine.” — Van, [112:28]
• “You have to be better than [them]… there’s no accountability there [for her].” — Van, [26:57]
• “This is one of the greatest dick rides I’ve ever seen before. This is crazy.” — Van, [122:41]
• “It’s in him. This is who he is. So if I'm listening to it and I hear my name, this is how he feels.” — Rachel, [138:20]

Timestamps for Major Segments

• Covid surge / Media independence discussion............................. [00:12–13:13]
• Viral baseball game & social dynamics................................. [14:22–27:28]
• Texas Democratic Senate race analysis................................. [28:08–43:18]
• Fitness, vulnerability, and aging commentary......................... [51:40–58:14]
• Interview: Nina Westbrook & Nebbi App................................ [58:14–97:50]
• Florida vaccine mandates controversy................................ [101:11–116:50]
• Celebrity worship & "Glaze of the Week".............................. [119:06–126:26]
• Young Thug jail call leaks and street authenticity................... [126:31–147:58]

Conclusion

This episode blends serious sociopolitical critique (vaccines, media independence, electoral politics) with lighter, deeply human moments (aging, sports, relationships), providing listeners with a rich cross-section of Black culture, politics, personal wellness, and celebrity discourse. Nina Westbrook’s interview offers actionable wellness insights, while the rest of the show reaffirms Higher Learning’s signature: smart, uncensored, and highly relatable conversation.

Don’t miss:

• [58:14–97:50] Nina Westbrook interview for mental health and wellness actionable insights.
• [101:11–116:50] Florida vaccine mandates for urgent public health discussion.
• [14:22–27:28] Viral baseball game for an engaging exploration of gender and race codes in public life.

Listen on: The Ringer, Spotify, Apple Podcasts
Hosts: Van Lathan Jr. & Rachel Lindsay
Special Guest: Nina Westbrook

Take caps off, but do not stop learning.