A (3:22)

Thank you for having me.

B (3:23)

So I want to know, how did these out of body experiences start for you?

A (3:28)

Yeah, so I was a kid and I would find myself, all of a sudden the bed would be vibrating and then I'd suddenly be hovering above my body and I'd be like, O God, this is so scary. What is happening? What is going on? And I had these for many years. And then I realized if I slowed down my breathing, I bring them to a stop, forgot about it, didn't think anything at all. And then several years later, I'm in my late 20s, I run my own dance company, I've like forgot all about it. And I pick up this book on the shelf and it's by Robert Monroe, Journeys out of the Body. And I start reading it, I'm going, oh my God, this is what was happening to me as a child. Like these vibrations, these weird energy floating out of my body, seeming to connect between different dimensions. Like, is this what happened to me as a child? So I thought, I'm going to try some techniques, I'm going to give it a go and see if it's quote unquote real. I thought maybe it's just a lucid dream. I'd done that for many years, maybe it's the same thing. So I tried some techniques, didn't work for a whole month. Gave up. But one night, went to the toilet, came back and found myself dropping into the vibrational state. This is the bit where just before you leave the body you might sense lots of vibrations and then float it out, came out of my body. And I looked back and I was like, oh, My God, that's me lying there on the bed. But it's not me. I'm here. So if I'm here, who is that there? That my body isn't me. I'm not my physical body. And I realized that all my limitations were tied up with my physical body. And when our sense of self is insulted, or when our body is insulted, we suffer, but we aren't actually that body. We aren't actually that limited sense of self. We're much bigger. So, so it literally changed my life. And then I left my whole career in dance. And at the time I was trying to raise funds for investment for a four year project. I've been trying to get money for for ages. The British government had just said, yeah, you're going to win it, you're going to get the investment. And I'd had the out of body experience. And I said, I'm so sorry but I can't do this knowing what I know now. So quit a 15 year career in the dance and then went back to university to do a master's degree in transpersonal psychology. So I the self transformative effects of out of body experiences for my dissertation. Then that got made into a peer reviewed paper and published in a journal. So and then it all took off from there.

B (5:49)

So powerful. It's like source redirected you of like okay, this is your dharma and we're going to have you have this like tangible experience. So what are different types of out of body experiences we can have? Like you mentioned lucid dreaming. Like what are different forms?

A (6:01)

So lucid dreaming is a dream in which you know you're dreaming. It's not actually an out of body experience. In fact, dreams are even astral projection. Okay, yeah. So phenomenologically speaking, at least from a western scientific point of view, it is basically a near death experience. So you know when people go oh my God, I float out of my body and I saw what was going on and I had this connection with my dead relative or got this message, came back to my body and then boom. Their lives often change. So that's what's called a forced out of body experiences. There's three types. One is your mind or your body will be injured or feel fear and then you'll have a spontaneous one or you will be in an altered state. So on the cusp of sleep or meditating or even on the massage table, you can just find yourself floating out of body. This is a spontaneous one. And then you have self initiated, which is what I teach in many Spiritual traditions teach, which is triggers to actually evoke it for a thousand different reasons. Enlightenment, self actualization, manifestation actually as well. So for those sorts of reasons. Yeah.

B (7:06)

So would plant medicine be considered one of these?

A (7:09)

This is where I'm going to get controversial and everyone is going to throw their arms up in the air and I'm going to ruffle lots of feathers. No. Technically at least. Okay. From a western psychology point of view, within science it would not be considered an out of body experience because although there are some overlapping sensations such as energy, feeling of time being different, maybe connection with different entities or receiving messages, you haven't had that sense of leaving. You know, you can do that. You can shut your eyes, go into an altered state, take yourself through a tunnel into a beautiful field, receive some information you still haven't left, but you still have connected to those other places, but you haven't had that sense of that shift, which from some spiritual traditions would be the soul or the spirit actually leaving the body, not connecting to it from within the body. So it is literally that sense of leaving from a western point of view, which is an out of body experience. So I did ayahuasca a few times before I'd had my out of body experience. Then I had the out of body experience separately.

B (8:11)

So maybe like BUFO would be more of one. I've never sat with bufo.

A (8:16)

Yeah, So I did BUFO as well and I still wouldn't consider it the same. And I know again that's quite controversial. So I've had BUFO and DMT and it's reality dissolves, but you are here in one place, reality dissolves and then you have access and you're in this space with an out of body experience. You shift out full on. Doctor Strange, the movie, you into this reality and you're floating around as a separate entity, effectively like a ghost. And then you can look back at your body lying there. Unless you springboard from psychedelics and then have that feeling of leaving as opposed to reality breaking down, what we call total body dissolution, then you would maybe you can springboard into an out of body experience from it.

B (9:02)

So when you go into, and I want to break it down more, but when you go into these out of body experiences, where does your soul go next? If you're seeing your body there, like where do you go? Yeah, like take a trip, like just.

A (9:15)

Go be your friend, go spy on your ex boyfriend, see what they're getting up to. Ethics, I often say we have ethics of what you can do. So you feel that you are leaving your body and then you can enter what appear to be different realms or dimensions. And depending on the spiritual tradition, they would say you're going to various different places. So you could have a universe, like a cosmic out of body experience. You could have one of this reality, this physical plane which we call the ethereal plane, which feels like it is now. And that's where you could visit your ex boyfriend or girlfriend.

B (9:50)

Why isn't he watching my stories anymore?

A (9:53)

All right, God, he's with her. No, I know what you was wearing. I saw you sign up right?

B (9:59)

Now, I know you want to, but.

A (10:02)

It'S funny we're talking about this because back in the 1980s, the CIA learned astral projection in order to try and spy for various purposes to get power and see what other people's military was doing. And Joe McGonagall, who's a very famous astral projector, he was one of the lieutenants there who was very adept at it. And he was able to go out and retrieve information and come back to his body. So technically, from this kind of angle, that is totally possible. And there are many traditions, some shamanic and Tibetan Buddhist traditions, that use it for those practical purposes as well.

B (10:36)

Honestly, it's time for you to get out of the spiritual closet because you have incredible gifts that you are here to share your message, your story, your wisdom. I know it inspires your friends, your family members, your colleagues, everyone you meet. But it's time to actually be able to share it with the world. But I know what you might be thinking. I don't know what to post. I don't feel like I'm a confident speaker. I hate the sound of my own voice. Well, if this is you, I was exactly in your position. And this is why I've created my Speak with Soul method that has led to me over 3,000 people moving from awkward to confident speaker in just 21 days. So in this method I go so much deeper than giving a TED talk, but rather it is about the energetic transfer you are here to admit. It's about the tone, texture, quality of your voice, how to share a story, how to be a channel, how to really listen to what your soul is here to express beyond the mind and in, into the body and spirit. So you're going to learn about what type of speaker you are, how to effectively share your story and end off the 21 days recording your own podcast intro.

A (11:44)

Which, by the way, you need to have me on one day.

B (11:46)

So if you're interested and curious, I have a code for 20% off right now you can head over to the show notes speakwithsoulcourse.com and use coupon code podcast for 20% off again, that is speak with soul course. Com coupon code podcast. And I have that link in the show notes and I'm going to. So excited to see what you create. And without further ado, let's get back into the episode. So how can we use it for healing? Can we go into different times of our lives or is it more for actually going in physical locations?

A (12:17)

Yeah, both. So you can enter different, what appear to be different time periods, different dimensions. One thing I will say is you can do shadow integration. So heal trauma and out body experiences. So we have a projection plan. So you go, okay, what do I want to do? If I left my body tonight, what would I go do? And why would I go do it? And so that could be to heal my childhood trauma, to be able to overcome this fear, to overcome this limitation or actually find out the solution, what is blocking me? And this is where we really dive deep into what we call the dark realms, which people are often scared about, particularly when we come from a dualistic nature. Like I am me and everything is separate and I don't want to go there. I've seen a shadow, it's a dark entity, it's going to possess me, it's going to attack me. The three irrational fears I often say people have actually, what if that is an unhealed personified aspect of ourself that is waiting to be seen and heard and illuminated and it has a message or some healing for us. And I often say if you come across what you might consider a dark place, can you stay in it? Can you be there? And can you actually go, why am I here? And call that out. If you see a shadow or you see something you're unsure of, can you say to it, what do you represent? What do you have for me? What is your name? Why am I being taken to you? And there often is something that is incredibly valuable for healing. Maybe it is related to that trauma that happened as a child and something fragmented off from us. And then we can integrate that back, as Carl Jung said, individuate, make ourselves whole again, which in turn releases a lot of fears, a lot of blocks that is stopping us from achieving dreams, finding our purpose, being the fullest expression of our best self.

B (14:04)

Effectively I want, I want to dive more into, into that realms of, yeah, those fears. So when people do meditations, like inner child meditations, where you go back to your childhood self and you have a conversation with her and you hold her. Would that be considered like this kind of astral projection? Or is that, Is astral projection something different that you have to like more Be under a hypnosis?

A (14:27)

Yeah. So it wouldn't be considered the same because anyone could do that. We could have an experience right now that would be going into the unconscious mind and connecting with psychological archetypes such as the inner. To then have that conversation we always needed to have with ourselves for healing. So it's using vision, it's using active imagination, which is similar to shamanic journey. So you would use, you could use breath work. I called, I use this technique called state, which is state stacking. So I hack sleep states, use breath work, use visualization. So it's layering different types of altered states to hit the first step. So there's three steps. The first is the mind awake, body asleep state. Mind is awake and aware. Body falls asleep completely so you can't feel it anymore.

B (15:13)

How long does that take?

A (15:15)

It can take anything from a couple of minutes to half an hour, 45, depending on whether someone's very anxious. Do they struggle to relax? Their minds always busy. So it depends. So this is the mind awake, body, sleep state. The second is triggering the vibrational state, which not everyone goes through. In fact, only 30% of people feel it. So we don't want to hook onto it, like, oh my God, I must feel the vibrations, otherwise I'm not going to be able to exit, because you might not. So we have that transitory phase, the vibrational state. Then the third step is we call it exiting the body. I don't like the word exit because we don't know anything actually leaves effectively. But the feeling of separation is that, whoa, I'm leaving my body. And when I taught the cast of Behind Her Eyes, Eve, the lead actress, we were doing a workshop and she managed to get her astral head out of her body. So she lifted up and was like, oh my God, freaked out. Snapped back, classic beginner. Because you feel like I'm actually leaving. As opposed to going on a journey in your mind with active imagination. Yeah. So she felt that sense of separation and then came back to her body. And then we spoke afterwards how she could develop that more until she has the full blown experience. And it's often that first one that's the most transformative because it's like you've got direct proof that you're a soul or a spirit and you're like, whoa, if, if I can Leave my body. And I am more than the here and now, more than my mortality. What can I go and do? Where can I be? And how many lifetimes am I going to live? When does this end? Is it infinite? And that's amazing to explore.

B (16:56)

So have you ever done quantum hypnosis, healing technique? Dolores Cannon's past life regression technique?

A (17:02)

I haven't done that, no. I've done quantum meditation stuff.

B (17:05)

Ok. So yeah, in that one it sounds a little bit similar, but you actually first talk to the hypnotherapist about your life for like two and a half hours. You tell them your life story and you're kind of like, why? And it's interesting where you go and I've done it several times and I kind of end up telling different stories each time. And then they guide you through this deep hypnosis. But it takes quite a long time to get into the state. And for a long time I was like, I don't think I'm actually hypnotized. Like I feel like I'm just, just here and I'm making this up. And they're like, it's okay, just use your imagination. Just imagine you're in this like vast space, nothingness, and there's an earth and you know, now look down and what do your feet look like and what does your body look like and what do your hands look like? And you kind of enter into this lifetime and you're not really sure again if you're making it up or if it's something real that you're tapping into. But then no matter what the stories that you're telling afterwards, when you break it down, there's always parallels between that and your life. Right? Because it's like even imagination. Where does imagination come from? You know, it's not random. We're drawing upon somewhere. Right. So I'm curious with this. Is it like that, that some, sometimes you're like, am I even doing that? Am I making this up? Or is it just like a completely different kind of experience?

A (18:22)

Usually no, when you're having one because it's so shocking, you don't question it, you 100% know. That's not to say you can't access the most amazing messages and experiences through a different modality. So there's lots of different modalities. You can do similar through lucid dreaming, self hypnosis, past life regression and out of body experiences. So you can retrieve that information and it's really powerful and mind blowing, but phenomenologically not the same experience. However, you can springboard. So if you go particularly that you said hypnosis. So hypnosis is one of the best ways to astral project. So I'm curious about that. So if you use in hypnosis, then you can find yourself there in that place, going on that journey. And then often you can springboard into an out of body experience. Yet you can still retrieve, you know, you can have a hypnosis, an astral project and a dream, and you can still retrieve the same information. It's just a different way of getting there.

B (19:21)

And can you guide yourself through astral projection? Or is that something that you have to be with someone or listen to something? How does it work?

A (19:28)

Yeah, no one can give you an astral projection. In fact, if someone talks to you, you snap back immediately. So this is why it takes anywhere between two weeks to a month, but often a lot longer. So if people come to, and this is different, if you go to a shamanic journey class, you have a shamanic journey. It's fantastic. You get something out of it. If you go to a national projection class, you learn the skills, you go to practice the skills, you put it together, you'll do it for several weeks, then you might have an experience. Unless you are someone that has had lots of experiences before, then you might have one in class, but you can't get guided through it because as soon as you hear something in the room, you snap back. You need absolute sensory deprivation for the ideal state.

B (20:11)

So what are some steps we can take to begin practicing to open ourselves up in that way?

A (20:15)

Yeah. Well, the great thing is I know that a lot of your audience are very spiritual. So this tells me a couple of things. So they're gonna get it. And don't tell anyone else. Your audience are probably gonna get it more than anyone else.

B (20:27)

Of course they are.

A (20:27)

Of course they are.

B (20:28)

We're the best at everything. Yeah.

A (20:29)

And this is because. Because people who are more spiritual tend to be something called transliminal. They are more connected to their dreams, they're more intuitive, often empaths, and they often can relate to others and pick up on things like energy. Right. And if you've got those things in place, it tells me you may have a high absorption rate, which means that you can drop into an altered state quick. You're probably more connected to the spiritual realms than other people. So half the work is done. You're almost halfway there. So now you just have to put a couple of things in place to actually trigger that experience. So those things are so something you can do when you go to bed at night is you're falling asleep. And I teach people how to hack the hypnagogic state. So this is. I don't know if you've ever had it. When you're on the cusp of sleep, you see lots of colors. You might feel moving energy, you might hear voices or music. And you're like, oh, wow, that's really weird. So that's a hypnagogic hallucinations. When you get to that point, you haven't yet fallen asleep, but you're on the cusp, you want to apply a technique to then trigger a sense of leaving the body so you don't fall asleep. And so to do that, you want to go, okay, what am I seeing? What am I feeling? What am I hearing? So you get in bed, falling asleep, what am I hearing? What am I feeling? What am I seeing? It's a mindfulness technique. What am I seeing? What am I hearing? What am I feeling? Now what's happening is you're slowly falling asleep and you're noticing these things. Noticing these things, notice. You start to see stuff, you start to hear stuff, things start happening. And then you're like, okay, when you feel like you're on the cusp of sleep, then you do an exit technique. So for now, when you're in that place, see if you can have the intention and the felt sense feeling to. I'm going to step out of my body. I'm just going to sit up. This is the most basic one. It sounds so basic. You're like, how? How is that? That's so simple. So I want you to try and feel like you sit up out of your body. You might be thinking, oh, my God, if I'm lying in bed, how do I sit up out of my body if I'm not moving my body? So it's with strong intention and you might say a command. Out of body now. So I'm going to feel like, okay, I'm going to sit up. And at the same time, out of body now. When I'm in that position. Now this is a cool bit. People think this is scary, but it really isn't. This is my favorite bit. It's the sense of leaving. Some people might shoot out and it's like already happened. There's this feeling of the wind and you're taken out. You might land in your room or a different realm or dimension. You might spill out of your body. It literally happened to me two days ago. I was having a nap and I started to tip. And it's like you pour out of your body like milk, like syrup. And you feel like, oh, I'm going, I'm going, I'm going. And you go with it. Surrender, surrender, surrender. Accept. Just go. And you go with that spilling out of the body. It's like your awareness is pouring out of you, and you kind of end up in, like, a ball on the floor. And you can be different sizes. Sometimes you're really tiny and you fall down the crack of the bed, and sometimes you're really big, and you're floating above your body in your room. So this is the exit point. And then you've gotta stay calm. So I'm gonna teach you the rain technique, which I totally stole from Tara Brack, who's a famous mindfulness teacher. So recognize where you are. You're out of body. Oh, God, my. Just stay calm. Recognize. Oh, I'm in a room with a beautiful Sahara. We're having a conversation. Oh, I'm out of my body. Recognize. Accept. Accept is often hard if you feel like you've come out in a scary space. So you've got to accept where you are, otherwise you have no control. So, okay, I accept. I'm here in this room being filmed for this podcast. Then the next one is identification. Don't self identify with where you are. For example, I've come out into a heavenly realm. It's beautiful. It's golden. There's a divine being. I must be enlightened. I must be a guru, because I've come out into this beautiful, heavenly realm. So don't self identify with where you are. And then N is non identification. That's what we just said. Hang on, I've missed one out. I was investigate. Sorry. So we want to investigate where you are with detailed attention. Then don't self attach with any stories or narratives over why you're in the space. And this is one technique for navigation, because if we don't hold those emotions, we will snap back to the body out of fear or excitement.

B (24:50)

I remember when I was a little kid, I had this canopy over my bed that had all these flowers and vines, and I would just stare at it before I would fall asleep. And they would turn into all of these different shapes. And as I was falling asleep, I would end up in this different dimension where it was, like, my hands were really big, and it was all of this vast space around me, but it felt very overwhelming, and I couldn't, like. Like, I was, like, just kind of like, floating with these, like, big hands and just Felt very stuck and it felt very chaotic there. And I remember like being afraid of going into that realm. And so I'm realizing as you speak, I'm like, I likely was astral projecting or beginning to, but I wasn't accepting of where I was going. And so I developed this fear of it. And I remember also, you know, as a kid, you're so open to these things. Like I had this dress that had a rose belt on it. And like sometimes my sou soul would go inside the rose belt and I would enter into this other portal through there then. And I would always find portals, places, but I was always afraid of like where I would end up, you know, because then it got mixed up with watching like scary movies and stuff that I always thought I'll end up with Freddy Krueger and Boogeyman and all of them. So it's interesting now because I think I and many of us have developed this fear of like, well, if I'm not in my body, then who's going to be in my body, right? Like, you know, what if some, you know, they say like alcohol comes from the Arabic word al Ghul, that like when you drink alcohol it's an extringent of your soul that these like lower vibration entities can come through. But again that's like an unconscious way of leaving your body. So how can we, like what is your thoughts on like spiritual protection of the body and not letting maybe lower vibrational entities schools, you know, unresolved souls kind of to take you on a joyride while you're out.

A (26:35)

I just want to first acknowledge your natural ability to astral. But that's an actual technique hooking your attention. It's a self hypnosis as well. Hooking your attention onto something, whatever you was looking at, kind of falling asleep. And then you, you did a conscious waking technique into astral projection. And the feelings you told me the transition and the big hands and then feeling scared. Classic, classic, classic, classic astral projection.

B (26:59)

Is the big hands a thing?

A (27:01)

Yeah, you can look down and oh, my hands are so big. Or you be like, you can look down and then not have a body. You can just be like a floating point of awareness and then that can be a bit weird.

B (27:10)

And this chaotic realm, is that a place I'm going to?

A (27:14)

So if you think about the limits of consciousness, there are no limits, arguably. So there are infinite potential dimensions. I often say imagine if our. Imagine if a light came down into a prism and our consciousness was in this prism, in this like little pyramid and this Light comes in and it goes. It mixes with our own mind all the juicy things, the messy things, the exciting things, the things we don't want to tell anyone, the taboobs. And there's all these beautiful colors. And then a rainbow splays out the other side of this beautiful prism. That rainbow is the different dimensions we have access to. So it's interwoven with our own consciousness, the places that we can seem to go. So it would be somewhere you were taken that could be. Sometimes it's random. You're just like, I'm in this random place. And then sometimes there's something for us there to find. So it may be that there was something for you that there to explore, or it could have just been where you were at in your mind state at that moment.

B (28:13)

Totally. So what are your thoughts on spiritual protection of the body while you're astral projecting?

A (28:18)

Yeah, again, I'm very controversial. I don't do anything at all. But I become an advanced astral traveler. So when you become. When you get past the dualistic notions of fear, then you don't need to tend to do any work. So I. In the, in my. In my beginner's school, in the first month, we do exactly what you're talking about, spiritual protection. How are we going to protect our energy, protect our body? Because most people come at it from a dualistic notion of, I am here, something leaves and something can get in. Which is the shamanic view. Right. There are many different belief systems. That's the shamanic view. So one technique which I will teach people, because that is very prevalent in the spiritual community, is you can breathe in. And as you breathe in, you draw the energy up through your feet, up through your body, through your central channel. And then as you breathe out over the top of your head, you imagine a shower coming out of the top of your head, energy coming all the way down with a protective bubble around you. This is one of Robert Monroe's technique which have developed. So you breathe in. Imagine energy is coming up through the central channel out the top of the head. This beautiful energy is spraying down, creating this bubble. And as you take each breath, that bubble around you get stronger and stronger. As this shower comes out and the energy comes out. And at the same time you merging, cleaning your system like a river so that all of any stagnant energy that you may have in there is just being blown out the top of your head. Poof. And kind of dissolves around you as it creates the shower. I added some extra stuff on for extra Protection. So then you can take your hands once this visualization of formed around you, of energy, and you can imagine that you are placing onto that an affirmation or a symbol of protection. So I'm from Tibetan Buddhist background, so I often say in a very deep voice, om ahong benzo guru peme siri hung, which is cutting through ignorance, protection and purification. You might say om mani pemehong. Many people connect with the compassion mantra. Or you might just have a cool symbol like full on Lord of the Rings. There might be some cool writing that comes up. Whatever your spiritual tradition is, you can imprint that symbol onto the bubble and you imagine that it's lighting up in whatever way that you like. And then you can let that visualization go and then you can start your practice from there. But I don't do anything at all because I don't believe anything can get in or that I can be possessed. That comes from a very. I'm very secular in psychology, so that, that's where that is. Also when you say something can get in, you actually create that reality to unfold because it's within your belief system. So if you're into quantum physics, things like simulation theory, holographic universe theory, or many worlds theory, there might be a belief that every action that you do, there's an opposite one. So if you believe that, oh, something's, I want to protect myself because I don't want something to get in, then you create the potentiality for that other reality to unfold because of that belief. But so, yeah, I don't do anything. But that's something very strong. And we work on resolving fears, limitations, different things. I actually teach people how to meet negative entities that they would feel that could possess them. It's called the three second stance. So the three second stance, okay, Imagine right now, if you're listening to this, oh my God, Boom. I've just come out of my body. I'm in a different place. I don't know where I am. It's a realm. I see something looks scary. I don't want that thing coming near me. I don't know what it is. 3 second stance, stand your ground. This is the first thing. So you just stand your ground, connect to your power. And then strong affirmation. Why are you here? So you can say, why are you here? Or what do you represent? To get some information from that. So there might be a voice or a message. You might get it telepathically, it might do an action, you might get something that happens suddenly. The world might Change, you're in a different dimension because you're being shown, you're being taken somewhere to see why you're having this connection. And that's when often a lot of healing can take place. Because if we do buy into the shamanic belief system of duality, then that entity has been attracted for a reason, right? So then if you're on that frequency and you're vibrating on that frequency that's attracted that said entity, then you can find out from it the reason why it's there. Which is a classic old spiritualist and also Wiccan, quite witchy way of looking at it. And then you regain power. And I'll give you an example of this. I had an out of body experience through sleep paralysis. I teach people how to master sleep paralysis as a gateway, which is advanced because it can be scary. And I come out of my body and there's like this disfigured demon looking, looks like it's been burned all over its body. And I've had many experiences like this. Over 200 dealt with these. And so I come out and I'm like, why are you here? Who are you? And it kind of crawls towards me.

B (33:24)

It's like.

A (33:25)

And I'm like, oh my God. Stand your ground. Stand your ground. Second stands. Connect to your power. Boom. And it comes closer and it goes, what did he say? He said, I'm your unresolved conflict with money. And I was like. And I was so overwhelmed because it's not just you hear the message, you feel it, there's a, there's a shift internally, you feel it. And I was like, whoa. There was like an unlocking and I shot back to my body like, oh my God. So this creature was an embodiment of something I'd suppressed within myself that was related to the conflict, conflict of money. And it's true. I'm from a working class background. I have these ideas that money is bad, wealth is bad, I don't deserve abundance if I'm doing something that isn't hard work. So I was able to then go, okay, this is a sign. If I ignore this, it's going to get stronger, it's going to shout louder and I'm, it's always going to keep visiting me. So unless we heal it and shift beyond that frequency and rise above it, then it will keep shouting because it's part of our shadow. I call these shadow out of body experience experiences.

B (34:30)

It's so true. And thank you for sharing that because these demons really are our own, right? Our unresolved conflict with money, our unresolved conflict with the mother, or unresolved lack of trust with life. Anger at God. Oh my God, I had a lot of anger at God. Sometimes I'm like, God, can I redo the system? Like why don't you have a lot of ideas? But it's interesting because it's like then yeah, it's so easy to project that on like oh, it's like. And again, who knows? Knows. I don't know. I, I haven't died and come back so I haven't been able to ask these questions yet. But some people see it as like an actual demonic force and satanic and, and things like that. And, and for some people it's like it's all part of us. And again, I think it's like whatever we believe, we become. And you know, I've done plant medicine journeys and interestingly enough, I never interact with those. Of course I feel discomfort, I'm humbled. But I'm always so surrendered to it that it never has to like scare the out of me because I'm like, you're right, you know, like, you know, before it has to get so bad. And I think they, they like personify even become like deities, you know, when it's cuz they're, they're thought forms that develop, develop, develop until they like have to literally take on like a thought form personality for us to like have a conversation with it enough to, for it to alleviate. I'm curious your thoughts on astral projecting and visiting like other galactic families or ancestral lineage? Do you visit other kinds of things beings?

A (36:06)

Yeah, I more do ancestral work because you can actually out of body experiences through science now can actually change your intergenerational trauma. So what I mean by that is out of body experiences can heal your intergenerational trauma by changing the expression of your gene. So I'm really interested in ancestral work. So that's what I've been focusing on. I'm not that interested to be honest, about connecting with, I don't know, aliens or star families. I'm like, okay, what can I do and change for me right now in my life in this situation as opposed to going and having a chat with an alien. Although it sounds super cool and I have had some experiences and in fact I'm not supposed to say this, so don't tell anyone. I got invited to a private retreat at Esalan in big surgery. A group of people from around the world that all flew in there was the quantum physicist Nassim Harameen. And a couple of gurus, a few other people. And it was because we all had areas which could potentially connect with aliens and other beings. And astral projection being one of the core ways to be able to do that. And how can we open those conversations with those other beings and entities in a way that is very level headed, grounded and balanced so that we can bring it out into the world without it kind of being classed as woo woo. So they pulled in scientific people that specialize in these fields to have these kinds of conversations. But I'm like, you should need to go to the spiritual community, go to all these guys. They're already doing it. They've been doing it for years. They're having conversations every night. Yeah.

B (37:42)

So, okay, so you lie down in bed, you feel yourself either dripping out or you do the sit up method. And then you feel your soul leave your body and now you're hovering above your body. Body. What happens next?

A (37:54)

Projection plan. Okay, what do you want to do? Why do you want to do it? That's the key, by the way, the why, the meaningful reason. You know, I could go down the road and look at what my ex is doing so I can come back and then freak them out or something. But the universe or the higher self or the unconscious mind is not going to get on board. It's not a good reason.

B (38:12)

Like, come on.

A (38:14)

Yeah, yeah, your higher self is going to be looking like going, really? I'm not going to, to get on board and help you with that. But if you are like, okay, I want to leave my body to meet my dead mother, to heal my grief and make sure she's okay, have that last conversation, that last message with her, then your higher self is going to be like, let's do it. And it's going to help you. It's going to really open that door. But you also might want to be like, I want to heal that childhood trauma or I want to explore the nature of reality to see, am I more than my body? Am I more than what I think I am? So there are a number of different reasons that we can do this. And one of the ones for me is self actualization, self transcendence.

B (38:56)

So, so you just declare it and then you're brought there.

A (38:59)

Good question. It can be both. Sometimes you declare it and the environment can just take you there sometimes. And this is what I teach is you actually prepare it beforehand as part of your practice. So you would do it in a meditation before you lie down and do all of the things, or you would do it as you're falling asleep, sleep, you would concentrate on that. So when you come out of your body, you're already in that dimensional realm because you've preceded it with intention. You've incubated an astral projection experience. But also you can travel there from A to B. So be beginners often travel like they do in the physical body. They will come out their door, walk down the street, go somewhere. You're usually flying. Most people fly, but you go from A to B in a linear fashion. Advanced astral projection as teleport. So you would think of the place, you would have a strong intention to go there, and then you just find yourself there, full on. Star Trek beaming down from the starship Enterprise. You land in a place, depending on your awareness at the time, how strong it is to control the experience coupled with the dimension you've come out in. Like what type of dimension is it? Some are more thought responsive than others. That will determine whether you travel and there A to B or whether you actually just teleport.

B (40:13)

So once you're there, are you actually the person in the experience or are you narrating the experience and like watching yourself have it?

A (40:21)

Like an out of body, out of body, out of body experience? Yeah.

B (40:24)

Like let's say I went and I, I visited my deceased grandmother to have a conversation with her. Am I like now in it having a conversation with my grandma or am I watching myself have a conversation with my grandma?

A (40:36)

That's a really good question. It depends on the type of ob. You can have double perception out of body experiences. So you can come out of your body, have the conversation with your grandma as you out of body. You can then come out of body and witness something in time that has already happened. So it could be something in the past where you had a conversation with your grandma and you're witnessing that situation. But here's where it can get triple perception freaky. You can come out of your body and you can kind of have an experience of your grandma having an experience of you. So you tap into what she wants to say, but not from outside having a chat, but more from her own consciousness. So you, you feel and experience what she feels as opposed to chatting with her at a distance. Mm, yeah.

B (41:28)

And then how do you continue to know that you're in this out of body experience? What if you just think I'm having conversation with my grandma? You're just in it. It's like a dream.

A (41:38)

How do you mean?

B (41:39)

Like do you ever just get like actually just not lost in it, but Thinking that this is actually happening.

A (41:46)

Yeah, usually that, that's one of the, like, if you think it's happening, like, oh my God, I'm. I'm here having a conversation with my dead grandma.

B (41:52)

But are you. Is it like lucid dreaming, like you're remembering I am here on an out of body experience or are you just like in the room with your grandmother and then you like wake up and you're stomped out of.

A (42:03)

Can be both, depending on the level of the experience. So you, if you have an out of body experience and you don't recognize it, you can have this, wow, powerful thing, come back to your body and then go, oh my God, I was just out of my body. So it's retrospective. But then other times, if you, you know the feeling, like I know now when I'm leaving, I can sense certain feelings, feel it. So.

B (42:21)

And the whole time you're aware I'm having an out of body experience right now. This is not real. Like, are you remembering that the whole time or so here's. Or doing like an anchor, like checking if you have a shadow. You know the things.

A (42:32)

Yeah.

B (42:32)

For lucid dreaming.

A (42:33)

So I'm gonna answer two things there. And this is one of the things why people change. People, it's. They say it's more real. The most commonly reported phrase, I had no shadow.

B (42:41)

Are we in a dream? Surreal.

A (42:44)

It's fine. So here's a question going in from saying it feels more real than reality. That's the most common phrase that people have. It felt more real in reality, more real than this reality right now. So how do you know you're not out of your body right now having this conversation in an astral plane?

B (43:01)

Right.

A (43:03)

So the reason why I love this, I love philosophy, is it feels this real. So usually people are like, oh my God, I left. It's why they can have a spiritual crisis afterwards. It's. What I changed my career. Yeah. I deny Oscar five times was amazing. Profoundly transformative. I didn't change a 15 year career in the arts. Had an out of body experience. And I was like, this, this is more real than my real life. This is why it's not simply imaginary.

B (43:26)

So do you feel that right now we are astral projecting?

A (43:30)

Not from the place of which I'm speaking about right now. From like psychology. I don't feel like I'm out of body right now. Philosophically, we could say, well, it depends what you mean by consciousness and soul. But could Potentially there be 70,000 jades experiences 10,000 realities at the same time? Right now. And I'm just one of those that has experienced this, and that feels very real to me. We can get quite far.

B (43:56)

Yeah. Because would you say our soul is just in one place?

A (44:01)

Yeah. So when I teach, I don't say a soul or spirit is even the body. I do if I'm referencing certain spiritual traditions like shamanism believed that the spirit is leaving. Buddhism, they say you're actually projecting your self awareness. So basically I don't have an answer because I don't have a belief system that I operate from. I don't think consciousness is limited to one thing. I like the idea of panpsychism, which means that everything to some degree has an element of consciousness, not necessarily awareness. Like this chair, for example, would have an element of consciousness. And that suggests that maybe reality could be consciousness itself. You know, the old idea of you're experiencing yourself separate from the universe, but we're all interconnected, like that vibe. So in science it's like panpsychism is the closest theory to that. So I lean towards that, but I think it's even more mysterious, even more complex.

B (44:56)

So going into the astral projection, let's say I'm having this conversation with my grandmother, then how do I close it? And what's the process of coming back to my body?

A (45:05)

Body, yeah, it's very hard to stay out. Almost all beginners will snap back, get overwhelmed, snap back, retrieve something, snap back. So part of my job is to help people stay out and have longer experiences. As soon as you think of your body, you almost snap back. Occasionally time and space might feel different and you might feel like, oh, my God, I'm in this for ages. I want to go back to my body. Just think of your body. I've not met anyone yet that hasn't just thought of their body and they haven't snapped back. Oh, maybe one, actually. But she was very deep in trauma at the time. So yeah, you almost snap back.

B (45:46)

So most people never make it to the point of like, okay, we're closed here, time to go back.

A (45:50)

Yeah.

B (45:51)

Okay.

A (45:52)

And sometimes the experience will end when you've got what you need from it as well.

B (45:57)

And do you, like, once you have that now, does that shift your reality? Did that shift the past occurrence? Like, I went back into, had the conversation with my grandmother, and now my entire lineage has shifted. Or is it just for my personal awareness?

A (46:12)

Do you mean, like, are you affecting others through the experiences and they shift as well? I personally believe that, and that's why I think it's so important with those experiences that may appear scarier, like let's say, the entity, because I think we directly affect them. So the reason there's a link there, there's a tie between us of why that is happening, this connection with the said being. And when we heal, whatever it is that is attracting it or operating on that frequency, that in and of itself has a transference of energy and then that gets healed. And this brings me to sometimes also it's not about you. Sometimes you're being called somewhere to do healing to others. So then you can have help, whoever that is, or the being that needs that, and then you come back. But usually something is shifted within yourself as well as the other. This has been my personal experience.

B (47:02)

You know, in the shamanic realm, they say that the healing work that we do is affecting seven generations before and seven generations after. And I have noticed, you know, any kind of healing I do, it's like all of a sudden my dad is interacting with me in a different way. And it's like subconsciously working on them as well. And it's almost like you're like cleaning out the cabinet of these different, like, you know, relationships and intergenerational patterns. So what has been the kind of work you have done for healing your ancestral lineage?

A (47:32)

I think I'm actually still doing it. I'm actually still doing it. Something that I've noticed in my family. On the women's side, we all have ADHD at least three generations back and we all tend to attract controlling, narcissistic men. So. And I didn't know this until I met one and fell in love and had the whole everything that comes with that sort of relationship. I had had three out of body experiences before that occurrence. And part of that relationship that warned me of it, it was prophetic. So you can have prophetic astral projection experiences. So they show you something that is about to happen, happen. And I ignored them because I was in love. And one of the experiences was I came out of my body next to him in bed and he was an aspect of himself was showing me that it was narcissistic. And then I came back to my body and ignored that sign. A second one was I came out of the out of body experience and for some reason I saw pajamas, kids pajamas on the floor with Mickey Mouse on them. And he was in the experience as well and came to attack me. And I knew it was to do with children and attacking. So I thought, okay, I need to pay attention to this. And we spoke about maybe having a family and Several months later we went to Disneyland and he was there and he was being very aggressive and there was the same kid's pajamas that I had seen hanging on a hook. And at the time I was deciding whether to stay and have a family or whether to leave. And it was the same feeling, the same clothes, the same temperament as the out of body experience. And I recognized it in that moment. I was like, whoa, it's happening. And I'd had another out of body experience that was going to show me what would happen if I stayed in the future. So I thought, I need to listen to this and I should have listened to the first one. And so I made a decision to leave that relationship. It was very hard. I lost my sense of self in that. And then through exploring that, I noticed that my mom had done something similar and my grandma had done something similar. So then I decided to heal my ancestral line throughout body experiences with this. Why is these women, why are we attracting these men? Where is it coming from? What is the energy? So that when I have a daughter, hopefully she won't have that within her system to be attracting that. So it would change your genes and you can literally change, change the expression of your genes throughout our body experiences. Yeah.

B (50:09)

Thank you so much for sharing that. I think that's so relatable that I feel every empath spiritual woman has had a dance with a narcissistic man. It's just like a part of the learning curve here and to notice that. And it's interesting because I wonder if your soul saw the future and saw that day at Disney and was showing you a glimpse of like you're going to recognize these children's clothes, you're going to feel like this, it's like anchoring a memory in you. So then when it actually happens, you're like, oh, I've been here before. Oh, it's that now this is enough evidence for me to take action.

A (50:39)

And this is exactly what exactly agree with what you're saying. And it's why I believe when you have out of body experiences, it gives you something called polyphasic perception, which a lot of indigenous communities have, which is the ability to recognize these dreams, these out of body experiences, these other mediumship experiences, whatever they are, give those the signs, the messages. We just need to pay attention and look at them. Which is why it's one of the most profound well being practices. Because you can then make your decisions in life based off all of these astral projection journeys. Not just my one physical life, which is like it was yeah.

B (51:20)

So how do you know sometimes if what you see in the astral projection.

A (51:23)

Is literal or metaphorical in a quantum type state? I think it can be both. Mm. And neither, which I know is really weird and maybe confusing and. What. But it. It could be both. It could be either. But yeah. How do you know it's something from yourself or something completely separate? This is why I say to do the three second stance, so that you can tune in, use your intuition, stand, ask a question, and then you can make a decision whether you go back to your body or whether you choose to stop and engage. But ultimately, are they separate? Are they both the same? We don't actually know. It's our own judgment.

B (52:01)

It's like dreams. How do we know if that dream is actually prophetic? It's something that's going to happen? Or how do we know if that dream is just a mashup of everything in our consciousness? And it's like just playing out the TV show that we watched and the Instagram story and like, it's just things that we saw. Like, you know, some philosophy say your dreams are like the junk coming out of your brain. So it's like, it's. It's hard to know. And sometimes you only know until that thing actually happened. You're like, I did dream about that. And then you have lots of dreams that hopefully don't happen.

A (52:30)

No, exactly. I think this is where intuition comes in. It's really hard to know. And a lot of the times you don't until it's happened, like you said. But when you use intuition, there's often a feeling that's different. You kind of know, okay, so this feels like it could potentially happen. And Graham Nichols, who wrote the book Navigating the Out of Body Experience, he actually says there's a certain type of state which shows it's prophetic, which is a kind of a blue kind of tinge. And a few people have reported that. And then it's happened. And by blue tinge, I mean like reality has this blue haze. I haven't actually experienced that, and my experience was prophetic. But that's interesting.

B (53:06)

Have you ever astral projected into your future life?

A (53:09)

Yeah, I. Oh my God, I'm going to cry. I had an experience through movement, which is quite rare. You can astral project through movement. Like the whirling dervishes in the mystical element of Sufism. They blur the boundaries of the physical body, which helps with total, total body dissolution. And then they have out of body experiences. So I was doing it through Movement. And I had an experience of seeing my older self. Really all I 90, 100. Oh my gosh. She was so wise. She had the beautiful eyes and she was looking at me and she kind of took my hand. She didn't say anything. It was very telepathic. And it was just like, you don't need to do anything. You don't need to be anyone. You're already here. You're already your fullest self as you are, and this is the most joyful and wonderful life you're gonna have. Just be. Just be here now. And she. All of it through the eyes and. And I was just like, okay, okay, I'll do that. You know, trying to be like, I'll try. But it was just a sense of presence and. And telepathy in that sense. And so much was said in that moment meant that it gave me such resolve in terms of just chilling the fuck out and being calm and. Okay. I need to strive on the edge of my seat to do all of these ambitious, crazy things. I can actually just lean back into my life because it's already in flow.

B (54:37)

I remember meeting my elderly lady self and she was in her 70s, this version of me, and she lived in like, looks like a jungle or something like Costa Rica in this like pagoda, like open air house. And she had like a plaque, like a wall of all these like, plaques. And she had to win like, like Grammys and Oscars and like all these different, like, creative pursuits. And she had like short gray hair. And I was like, you know, before I was like, I'm never gonna let myself go gray. And she was just rocking it, colorful outfits. And she had a new boyfriend who was like 73 and she was like my new boyfriend. And like, she had grandkids that were older and she like, she had children that were older and the grandkids. And I had so many questions for her and it was like, yeah, that sense of like, wisdom and allowing me to zoom out and not be so focused on the problem of right now. And, you know, this actually happened. It was like right after my divorce. And she was like, you know, you still follow Western beauty standards right now, and it's okay. It's just where you're at and like, so like loving with it, which ended up being my journey of stopping, wearing makeup and like all these different things, and it was just so beautiful. But then sometimes I wonder, I'm like, like, so is that like guaranteed to be me? Like, do I already know how it's going to pan out? Or was that like one of the quantum realities that I could become and I don't know. And. And then on Wachuma plant medicine, I again, I did not think I was gonna have children. I met my children and it was the most profound love I've ever experienced in my life. And now, I mean, I'm so single, I'm like, am I having these kids? Like, is. But that whole journey was about embodying the mother archetypes. So I'm like, was that metaphorical or, you know, and it's like, I guess one day I'll let y' all know, you know?

A (56:14)

And I feel like what you're touching on there is probably the most important thing with out of body experiences. Often seen as the most boring, but actually the most profound is how we make sense of our experiences. Is it real? Is it not? Is it literal? Is it metaphorical? Is that me? Is it not me? And whatever the meaning making system that we bring to these experiences, actually that's what creates the transformation. That's what creates our reality to unfold. Because whatever we've experienced is how we feel about it. That then leads to potential realities.

B (56:46)

Yeah, because that happening and experiencing, you know, because my intention of it was, show me everything. Holding me back on true love. And it was a number of journeys in that last journey, showing me my children, it just reframed how I even see love, period. You know? And so whether I have. I honestly do believe, like, I really believe the visions that I've seen, you know, And I actually do believe one day I will become that old lady. Because they aren't the things I wanted, you know, And I think that that's how we know. Because if it's like, oh, everything's gonna work out exactly how I want it, it's like, okay, we're playing a role in it. But when it's like something like, sometimes I'm like arguing with it. Of like, no, no, I'm supposed to be over here. And it's like, nope, this is you. This is you. I'm like, that is coming from someone. Something beyond me.

A (57:30)

Whoa. Yeah, I love that when you get something that's so absurd or so like, really, actually is that. No, that's not in alignment with where I think I am right now. And this is what I love. When atheists have out of body experiences and they have an experience of God and they're like, well, I don't believe in God. How am I having an experience of God? And I don't believe in God? And then they're shook. And then that effectively breaks down their identification and they become more. More believing in something and else. It's actually quite happened to quite a lot of people in the studies that have felt like they're atheist or agnostic. And it's because of that completely absurd thing that they think, hang on a minute, this doesn't feel like it's aligned with me. And yet it feels so true.

B (58:13)

And I feel like we need to have these big life shocks, these big redirections. Whether life creates them for you through a dark night of the soul, whether it's astral projection, whether it's past life regression, whether it's plant medicine and something that reframes everything in your life. Because otherwise you're just going on the conveyor belt. You know, like, you might make these little shifts day in and day out, but it's like you quitting your job and taking this other complete career path, realizing you're meant to be a mother, like, realizing this thing. It's like nothing else will cause you to make such a quantum shift than like actually having that experience. Because now you're like, oh, like this, that is meant to happen. And now it's like, who do I need to become? Because I think it's like, these are realities, but it's not guaranteed. And it's also like, how much time it will take. You know, it's like, how much of your own are you going to work through? How courageous are you going to be? Like, how honest with yourself are you going to be? Because that reality of being with the love of your life and your dream home could be on your death battle. You had one glimpse of it and you're done. You're gone next lifetime, you know, or it could be like, like, I'm really going to be honest with myself and eradicate what's not serving me. And it could be like next year.

A (59:24)

No, exactly. Beautiful.

B (59:26)

Well, thank you so much for being on this podcast. Where can listeners connect with you and learn how to astral project with you?

A (59:34)

Yeah, so I'm getting my website redesigned. You can add me on Instagram Jade Shore official or drop me an email info jade sure dot com.

B (59:43)

Yay.

A (59:44)

I have a free handout and a free quiz so you can see what type of astral projector you might be. So you can download that and give it a go and get some free resources as well.

B (59:54)

Amazing. We'll have that link in the show notes. Wow. This was a out of body conversation to share the least. This is a really good one to share with your friends and be like, what did you gain from this? Like, like, have you ever astral projected before or had a lucid dream or an out of body experience and just to really go there? I feel like a lot of us have these things, but we have no one to talk about it with. So this is a really good conversation. Like, put it in the group chat, be like, we're all going to listen to this and like, let's talk about it. What does this mean us? And you might honestly get to know your friends, your spouse, your family on a deeper level by having this kind of conversation. Who knows, maybe y' all are going to astral project to ancient Egypt together and invite me over. Thank you. So be sure to subscribe to this podcast wherever you're listening to this. It's on YouTube, so you could be watching the video. Spotify itunes. Wherever you listen to podcasts, stay in the flow for future episodes and I'm so grateful to have you here. All right, have a beautiful day.

A (60:47)

Trust your intuition, Trust your inner wisdom.

B (60:49)

Trust your inner guidance.

A (60:51)

Close your see. So trust your intuition, trust your inner wisdom.

B (60:59)

Trust your inner guidance.