← Highest Self Podcast®
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- [00:00]
A
There's nothing deeper than sexuality. These realms exist for all of us.
- [00:05]
B
That are looking for deeper, magical sexuality. It's attention and intention. Are you actually feeling the sensation that you're experiencing or are you numb?
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A
Welcome back to the High Self podcast. My name is Sahara Rose and on this podcast I love to talk about spirituality, but make it modern, fun, grounded and relatable so it can actually serve your needs. And I just finished the hottest episode of all time of Highest Self podcast. Oh, my God. How to fucking like a witch. We are getting it today with Mia Magic. You know her, she's one of my besties. And there is nothing held back in this conversation from sacred pegging rituals you can do in the bedroom and so much more. So we did not know this conversation was gonna go here. And it went to all of the those deep places, do you know what I mean? Hit every corner. So, so in this conversation we go into the witch wound. And ultimately we would not be able to have this conversation about sacred sexuality and love and intimacy and sacred union, being open to God had it not been for first, starting with the witch wound, the part of us that is afraid of our feminine, afraid of our shakti, afraid of our Kundalini, afraid of that inner serpent energy. So you're going to follow the serpent path and we're going to start there and then we're going to. The serpent opens up, it uncoils in our sacral chakra, tries to move up. We start to open the heart about this lover that she has and all of the lessons that she's learning. And there's a lot of notes to be taken here. And then I start asking the real questions, the questions I would be asking of her and I were just private in a conversation of, like, what are these sex rituals you're doing? Exactly, please. And she lays it all thick, extra thick. And so we really, we really explore it. And this conversation changed my life. It raised my standards of what is possible in intimacy and has made me like, oh, like these, like, sometimes in my deepest, like, self pleasure practice, I have this, like, desire to like, yeah, like, transmute sexual energy into the most healing potent energy possible with a partner. And I've never had that with someone truly. And this conversation and her openness of, and the exactness of how they have turned this relationship into something so deeply healing for both of them is so remarkable and telling of what is truly possible, what sexual energy is really about. Like, sexual energy is not just about having a baby because it's. It wouldn't feel Good. And we wouldn't have these urges throughout the month had it just been about having a child, which we will have, you know, even back in the day. Maybe a handful, maybe you're not. You don't have sex a handful of times in your lifetime. Sex is, is something so much more. And I feel for all of us in the spiritual journey, it starts with our food and, you know, eating healthier, and then you meditate and the mindset, work and your career and your purpose. But the sexuality, it needs to go there. Otherwise, we're missing a very important quadrant of what consciousness is really about. In fact, the most like this is what all of these spiritual lineages were originally about. They were about that Shiva shakti, sacred union, that masculine and feminine within ourselves and in the collective transmuting and creating the mountains and the rivers and the lakes and the valleys. That was all through the sexual energy. That even the word sexual, it's like demeaning for the power of what this force is. It's the. It's the creation of all of life. It's what made two atoms have this desire to merge together, Bang. Have an orgasm. And all of us come to life. We are all living orgasms. Every instinct that you have, every ounce of creativity you have is an orgasm coming through life. And that is why religion and society and patriarchy have made sexuality this cast down, bad, sinful, wrong, shameful thing. And that's how all of these entities have found their way into the porn and into all of these different areas of sexuality that our deepest traumas collectively are there. And so we need to look at these things and when we actually are able to quite literally them open through conversation, through our own intimacy and through eventually with another. That is how we actually like huge things like sexual traumas, pedophilia, sexual trafficking on this planet. It's all actually interconnected because when we don't heal those consciousnesses within ourselves, that is how they permeate in the collective. So this conversation, I mean, it's gonna tantalize, tease you, but it's something so much more. So without further ado, let's welcome Mia Magic here on the Highest Self podcast. And before we get into this episode, be sure to hit subscribe. That allows you to stay in the loop for future conversations. This podcast is also on YouTube so you could be watch watching us in person, Spotify video and the Apple Store. So be sure to subscribe to stay up to date with future conversations. And let's get into this one. Mia Magic. Welcome back on Highest Hill Podcast. It's been a minute and it's so good to have you here.
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B
Yes. We've returned. We are reborn.
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A
We've returned.
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B
We are back in action.
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A
And I remember a few years ago, we were on your front porch and we were doing this practice where we were speaking out our books and asking each other questions while the otter was transcribing it.
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B
That's right.
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A
And that's when this book Baby was being birthed.
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B
That was originally the first book, but I think that it was so much of what we were talking about that day went more into this book. Yeah, more of our rituals.
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A
So many rituals. So I wanted to start with the witch wound because I feel so many people can connect with that, of feeling like I was the outcast. I was always more empathetic, more sensitive, more spiritually attuned. And when they hear stories of the witch wound, it resonates deeply. What is this?
- [06:37]
B
The witch wound is the ancestral, epigenetic, energetic and spiritual injury that we all have from the result of the Abrahamic religions eliminating and wiping out all of the indigenous traditions, healers, stories, dances, languages. It's very all encompassing because you look at indigenous civilizations and societies today, and they still have medicine men and wise women. They still have healers who are working with the spiritual realms. And so all of that became not only villainized and demonized, but also cause for death and murder. And so the only alternative was to either renounce your beliefs and your traditions or, or, and then, you know, like, go along with Christianity or whatever the Abrahamic religion of your area was, or to practice in secret, or you had to just accept that, like, death might be inevitable. And so most people went into hiding, went into silence, and slowly, slowly, all of these beautiful traditions and healing remedies and recipes for how medicine can be made from plants just gradually got forgotten. And then how the witch wound impacts us today is. And you and I have experienced this so beautifully together. Fear of nature, fear of getting dirty, fear of sexuality, fear of emotions, fear of creativity. You know, we villainize these kids. Oh, a little theater nerd and band geeks. And like, oh, you just wanna, like, do your little art. No one can do art. And literally we pay millions of dollars for famous paintings. Rich people have, you know, art galleries all throughout their homes. We worship movie stars and rock stars. But if you want to do theater or band as a kid, it's so bad. And so all of the feminine aspects of existence, the creativity, the sexuality, nature, our emotions, have all been part of that witch wound. And why all of us feel totally unsafe in those ways of being and then have to do what you and I are doing, which is really practice and. And commit so much to them, to feel safe and to be able to make them a part of our normal everyday life.
- [08:54]
A
It's so insane how multi layered this is. So I recently was teaching this course called Karma clearing for the Mystic's voice. All around the voice. And we were going into the witch wound, especially related to sisterhood and relationship sisterhood. You know, I grew up near Salem, Massachusetts, and I was just there again a few months ago, and they showed us these giant, like thousand pound stones and they would put these girls underneath these stones and they would say, you're a witch. And if you're not a witch, you're gonna. You're gonna fly away. No, if you are a witch, you're gonna fly away. And if you're not, then we'll know because you're gonna die unless you know who the witch really is. So while they're being crushed alive, they are screaming out whatever names they can. Yeah, just whatever names are on their mind. So they're like Stephanie, Louisa, Mary Beth.
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B
Yeah.
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A
Just to get. They're dying.
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B
Yeah.
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A
And so to even have someone know your name was a potential danger. And that was the start of women staying at home, not having anyone know them. Definitely not having friends.
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B
Yeah. Not doing rituals out in the forest, not singing together, not picking medicine together. The things we've done since the beginning of time.
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A
And so the way that this interacts in our lives now is, you know, I was in this interesting situation. There was these two girls that I know, and they were dating the same man and they did not know about each other. And so being a person of honesty, I told both of them and I even connected them. And my.
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B
She hasn't spilled this tea for me yet.
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A
And I was like, y' all need to know, I've told both of you, you guys don't want to look at this. And now I'm here. You guys go, you're both being cheated on. Like desert. You need to know the truth. You need to look at that snake in the eye. And it ended up being this person is twisting it and once again now making me fulfilled. Even though I have nothing to do with their situation or their life, it's a level of manipulation. And I was telling my grandma about this, and my grandma was like, see, like, you know, in her old patriarchal Persian ways, she's like, this is why you shouldn't even try to help women. Like, especially when it comes to men, like, women are going to do what they want. Don't even try. This is why women just. Just stick to your family. Don't try. Like, don't be too close of friends with girls. This exact wound, I was hearing it come out of my grandmother's mouth. And so it's crazy of. I've never heard someone say like that, that it's like you could create that story of girls are just drama and I'm always in the middle and it's not worth having friends.
- [11:24]
B
There's so many reasons that we can come up with. I mean, that was. There was torture of all kinds happening, and they would tell you, the only way we'll stop is if you name another. And so that sisterhood wound, the competition, the comparison, even, like, there were women who wanted someone's husband, and so they would accuse her of witchcraft so that she would be locked away or killed. And then she could usurp the lands and the family and the children and the husband or the horses or whatever it was, the well full of water. A lot of it was a land grab. A lot of it was just. And. And that's why older women and women who had been widowed or singled were also really singled out because they didn't have anyone to stand up for them and protect them. And so people would be like, oh, great, she's got a nice full crop. Let's accuse her of being a witch. And we can take it all from her.
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A
It's crazy. So if you were a woman with any kind of resources, any kind of power, they would accuse you for being a. A witch to just take that from you.
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B
Yeah.
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A
And so it's interesting because even the Salem witch trials weren't even about women actually doing that. But what's interesting is what it's caused, that now when you go to Salem, it's all magic shops and people who connect with the witch archetype. So can you share if someone does connect with that archetype? What does that mean? What does it mean to be a witch in today's world?
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B
To me, it just means to be in alignment with our ancient ways that have persevered through till the modern day. It means understanding that our original calendar was solar and lunar and that we lived by the sun rising and the moon circling around us, controlling the tides, controlling the waters in our body with our blood. It means, you know, for me, a big part is being really sustainable. It's like walking my talk with everything being secondhand. All my clothes, all my furniture, all of the things like being super anti Amazon, I think that that's a big part. Like, the way that we consume is such a Muggle thing. It's so based on scarcity. It's so based on feeling not enough. And, like, we have to have this next thing or this perfect piece of whatever to make us feel enough, to make us feel worthy. And I think that the. The modern priestess, the. Which is. And you know, we know this. We've talked about this so many times. There's knowledge that's conceptual, it's information, and then there's wisdom that's embodied. You and I have both learned a lot of lessons in our lives. If we were just continuing to bang our heads against the wall doing the same things over and over again, it's just knowledge, it's conceptual. But we've learned a lot of these lessons the hard way. We've learned some of them the easy way. And we walk in our lives according to those lessons that we've learned. We let them inform our behavior. And that's what it means to be a witch. So if any. You've done any personal development, you've, like, seen an inner child pattern that was creating some type of experience or circumstance in your life that you didn't like or you didn't want, and you did something about it. You go back to that original root cause of your dad saying this thing to you or your teacher accusing you of doing whatever, and you deal with that need and that little part of you, and you understand that you're not separate from nature. You are nature. And there is a true nature, an authenticity inside of you that is so far beyond what we've been programmed to be and what the patriarchy and what society and what the witch wound tells us to be. That inner witch hunter, that inner Voldemort, you know, and that, to me, is what it means to be a witch. It's a myriad of different forms. There's herbalists and twerkers and, you know, astrologers and photographers. Like, we just had this epic witch photograph my retreat, like, and she fucking got it. You know, there's archeologists and painters and healers and speakers and podcasters. The modern witch as an archetype is so much more just how we live our lives. It's not what we're doing with them, it's how we're living it. And that's why this book is just about where we place our attention and our intention in order to make every act of our existence living ritual.
- [15:33]
A
Yes, that's so Beautiful of, you know, they tried to kill the witch and she was actually reborn in. In all of us. And you know, it's also like that rainbow prophecy of you tried to kill the indigenous people, but inside of us we are all red and it's, you know, the priestess like all of these different archetypes.
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B
The seeds.
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A
Exactly. And I feel the more these things have been vilified. So can you speak about originally how Eve and the feminine and the blood, the snake, the earth were vilified by Abrahamic religions.
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B
So all of these symbols are so beautiful and metaphoric. Snakes have been even the ouroboros, right. Is the serpent eating its tail. Snakes have been part of indigenous wisdom and mystical tradition since the beginning of time. Even our symbol for medicine in the modern world is the Caduceus, which is the staff of Hermes. And Hermes is a, you know, the messenger of the gods was Mercury in the Roman tradition, is Thoth in the Egyptian tradition has been this archetypal sort of bird like. That's why his staff has the two serpents and the wings bird like creature that is giving us the messages of the gods. Snakes not only are so grounded and they're able to climb and swim and move without any arms or legs, they're an incredibly powerful singular muscle animal. Very phallic, but move very femininely. So have that union of masculine and feminine. We feel them in our energy rising up. It's that shakti inside of us. So there's so much symbolism to the snake and to the serpent and that capacity to be reborn, shedding your skin, letting the old version of yourself go. And Eve, of course in the stories is the replacement for Lilith. So Lilith is the dark goddess. She will not submit, she will not obey. And so she gets villainized. Oh, you won't lay beneath me. Even though, let's be honest, right? The if we're all created in the image and likeness of God, then God is a woman because we're all born through women. But so Lilith was the first example of showing a woman you will be rejected, you will be cast out if you do not obey. And then even Eve, for having curiosity, she's. She's still subservient, she still listens, she's still made from Adam's rib, which is not how literally any anyone becomes alive. Even she is evil, bad, wrong. For taking the apple, for receiving the bounty and the gifts of what the earth has to offer us, for experiencing the divinity in the apple, in the tree, in nature. And to me, you know, that's where God lives is in nature. And so then the only female archetype that we're left with by the religions who tell us this is what it's okay to be is a woman who literally gets pregnant from not even having sex. She's the only one that's welcome. She's the only one that's allowed to be here and part of the story and that we accept. And so basically, the snake also because of that inner feminine energy, but it's very much a divine union representation because it is that straight phallus, but it moves with such feminine fluidity. It represents divine union within and has represented that eternal cycle of life, death and rebirth in again, so many mystical traditions since the beginning of time. And what the religions did, all three of the major Abrahamic religions turned that God is everything, and to God is one thing. And any of the symbols that represented the blood, the magic, the power, the beauty of that inner union, especially because the womb blood was the original blood of Christ. It's shed without violence. You don't need to cut him to shed his blood. We bleed. I'm bleeding right now. And like, here I am doing a podcast with you. Everything's fine. I'm not dying. I'm not bleeding out. So that wound, blood is shed without violence and is the literal liquid life force of creation. Because when it stops, of course, at menopause, it stops, but when it stops, it's because it's making a human, it's making a person inside of there. And so there were so many systematic ways and different texts that were written around the 1500s, when the 15, 1600s, when the printing press was invented, that were meant to support the Bible, like the Malleus Maleficarum, which was the hammer of witches, which was a torture manual of how to find and torture women. That was the second most published book after the Bible. The reason that the Bible, like the King James version of the Bible, is because King James, who was in power at the time, changed the Bible. Mistranslated, misrepresented, changed so many elements in the Bible to be what he wanted his political system to look like. So each of the religions took different aspects and made them bad, wrong, or evil. And now here we are, only 2,000 years later, like, not a huge amount of time in the span of human history. But going back to that original question with the witch wound, when the alternative is death, it's going to be really easy to wipe out an entire way of being in just a couple of generations. And it's actually a miracle that we all can even. And you and I have talked about this so many times that we can even be doing what we're doing because we would have been burned over and over and over again. Even the last, like, known witch burning was in 1900. It wasn't that long ago. And so it's incredible that we've held on through all of our lineages, through the incredible magic of the Persian Empire and Zoroastrianism and like all the epic things, and all my amazing Italian Roman gods and goddesses and Celtic druidry and all. It's a miracle that we remember any of it, but we do. And it's coming back and coming forward in such a big way. And that's why, you know, I had moon blood all over my face this morning. And I can't even have imagined doing that even at the beginning of when I started bleeding, let alone doing that 20, even 30, 50, 100 years ago. So we've made massive strides and it's incredible. And the opportunity for all of us is to look at all of these symbols that have been vilified or villainized and how do we reclaim them and bring that power back? And that's what we're doing so much, you know, in all of our different unique ways, all the different archetypes of the witch and the priestess.
- [22:08]
A
So can we just take a moment with this conversation? Let's just take a deep breath. It's getting steamy in here. Oh, Namashivaya. Wow, wow, wow. So Mia just texted me. I'm at my house. Check out my new hieroglyphic wallpaper, by the way, is a vibe. And she's like, I absolutely love your community and I want to offer my new course sex witch for 10 off for your listeners. So Sex Switch is a six week course to release your sexual shame, step into your magnetism, connect to your divine feminine and your inner mascul, which is a lot of what she embodies. How to really be in both that softness, that receptivity, but also that directness, which is super hot as well. And then how to integrate it into your life, whether you're single, in partnership, and also for sex magic. So you can get 10% off sex, which, which is a live course that me is running. Six weeks, six weekly calls. It's gonna be super juicy, energetic practices. I'm so excited to see what it awakens in you guys. Head over to the show Notes, use coupon code Sahara for 10% off. And without further ado. So let's get back into this conversation. I find the serpent is such a big symbol that comes forth in the feminine consciousness when we are in this reawakening. Because it is like everyone is taught to be afraid of snakes, to be afraid of the unseen. The snake is evil. It's. It's the thing that you don't want to look at. And so much of my own journey has been to first look the snake in the eye and then integrate the snake and dance with the snake and create art for the snake and become the snake. And then I had a dream recently that I had a daughter that was a snake. And I was like, even felt so safe that she shed her skin on my lap. And it was like the most profound love I had ever experienced of like she felt so comfortable and safe with me to do such a vulnerable thing and like it. And it showed me. It was like you went from being afraid of the snake, not knowing about the snake, the betrayal, to seeing it in the eye. This is what's been happening in your marriage. Then integrating that snake, my own darkness. What have I not seen inside of myself? Dancing with the snake, creating art with the sake. My body's an altar. I'm literally with a 14 foot boa. In the medicine, I became a snake. I realized I am a snake. That's why I've always loved to belly dance and move and the kundalini and like all of that sacred feminine. It's that snake energy until I became the mother of the snake. Of like passing that wisdom on for those who are going through their snake initiation and just a symbol so simple. Yeah, that is tattooed on me. It's on your earring. And I always see, it's like, you know, a woman who's gone through her dark night rehearsal, her initiation, when she dances with that snake. And it is that ouroboros of like the full completion of you go back exactly to where you were before. But having gone through that, you know, Inanna, that underworld journey, the hero's journey that they call it now. But that was really the sacred feminine initiation to our darkness and into our depth, into our blood. And, and so I feel that's really the, the witch to me, the priestess, to me, the mystic is Kal, the darkness Kali, goddess of darkness. It is that darkness, it is that void. So for someone who feels like they're in a massive awakening right now and they want to have ritual, they want to have more direction. Not that they're trying to force something and manifest it, but rather to get more clear even for themselves of what it is. That they're calling. And how can we use, like, ritual as you're calling it, in this more elevated way?
- [25:40]
B
Something that I've certainly learned recently is that if there's something that I want and I'm not getting it, and you and I have talked about this in so many of our manifestation videos and things before, there's a reason. There's some block, there's some belief, there's some behavior, there's some pattern. There's something in the way. And so what I've been doing lately is instead of praying for the manifestation, I pray for the clarity or the direction or the healing of whatever that block is. Help me heal it. Help me see it more clearly. Help me not turn a blind eye to whatever has been in my way. And as you and I have been talking about, especially, like, in terms of partnership, I got tired of praying for my man. I was like, this ain't working, you know, And I don't want to be coming from scarcity. Whenever I'm talking to the goddess or talking to the universe and feeling like, oh, woe is me. I desire this thing so badly that I'm not getting. You know, it was like it didn't feel true anymore. I was like, yeah, I still want it, but I don't want to beg. And I want to feel like I love my life now, and I want to feel grateful and I want to feel super juiced by my existence. And so when I'd had all the psychics and all the astrologers tell me I was gonna meet my partner in Europe in June and it didn't happen, I was like, okay, goddess, then show me what's in the way. Help me clear the patterns or the beliefs or whatever bullshit is in the way of me manifesting this partnership. And, you know, I got my prayer answered in a way I could never have imagined having it answered. And I am exponentially more prepared for partnership now.
- [27:27]
A
In a way that wasn't answered.
- [27:32]
B
The goddess answered my prayer with the kind of lover that I wouldn't have even been able to dream of before. I wouldn't have been able to think that a man could be so dominant and so submissive and so emotionally attuned and such an attentive lover and so available for hard conversations and love me and my fucking power and my big dick energy without any intimidation, maybe like a little every once in a while, but, like, without being afraid of me and without. He wants more of me. And I know everybody says, oh, but why isn't he the one? It Just doesn't feel like that for either of us. But even to have the freedom in my 30s to say, I can fall all the way in love with someone and it not have to be the thing forever, it not have to be my partner. It not have to have that pressure. I was telling some of our friends last night. Cause they're like, but why? Like, I don't understand. You're talking about playing pretend. I'm like, the love is not pretend. Playing pretend with my partnership. Because I really just in my soul feel that he's not my forever father of my children, et cetera. I'm not playing pretend with the love. But maybe, and this is just one thing, because they were really hitting me on all my avoidant patterns, you know? But maybe the fact that the pressure isn't there. I'm bringing to him literally anything. I got to la, he was supposed to come with me, as you know. I got to la and I'm, like, rolling home by myself, rent my car by myself, carrying my luggage by myself. Thought he was gonna be with me, was like, boop, boop, boop, boo. Like, could have just gone so low. And instead I sent him a voice note. And I was like, I'm not feeling bad, I'm not feeling sad, but I just, like, feel weird. And he just, like, helped me see all these things. You know, how my last book launch was with my ex. Like, all the things that were up. And I just, like, did a practice and made myself some tea and took myself to bed and, and woke up feeling so good. And I, I probably. This is my story, at least. I probably wouldn't have said anything to someone that I'm, like, trying to impress or that I want to think that I'm strong and I'm solid. Like, it's okay. I don't need you. Like, I'm good. I, I, I don't. I didn't need you to come, actually. Like, I'm totally fine. My life's awesome. Like, I'm so safe. Everything's fine. And instead, I showed him my weakness and I showed him my vulnerability, and I showed him the part of me that felt really small. And he met it and saw it and was willing to hold it and didn't shame me or make me wrong. And even that is making me feel so much safer to be able to bring all of myself to partnership. Okay, if he can respond to the worst part of me with so much kindness and compassion, then cool. Maybe this worst part of me isn't unlovable. Maybe I'm still lovable. And he just. There have been countless ways that I have been healed. And who knows by the time this episode comes out, like, who knows what will be happening? And that's okay. I'm so unattached. I am getting so much every single day. I am being rewarded. I feel like the universe is just giving me another prize every single day that I. That I get to be with him. And also showing me more and more every day how much I've got me no matter what. I don't actually need him. I feel like love him. Oh my God, I'm obsessed with him. He's literally the best. And. And we feel the same way. We've just been like exchanging the most insane voice notes these last 24 hours that I've been in LA. And it's so safe. And I don't think that I would feel as safe with the pressure of like thinking that like this is forever. And it's really liberating.
- [31:23]
A
The preparation for what we're calling in is everything. And that's why we do ritual, that's why we do ceremony. It gives us a time to prepare for that thing. You know, we've been in so many rituals together that we have realizations in those rituals that could have taken us a year into a relationship. You do all this healing work on your own. You know, I remember my guides, you know the same thing. Why? Where is my man? One thing so long. It's like, do you see that thing you healed? You would have had to do that inside the relationship. See that thing that would have been. And it's just like you actually allow in so much more ease when you've already gotten yourself up here. Totally enter a relationship and like, you know things like, yeah, like renting your own car and going into your Airbnb and figuring it out like we need to. When we are able to self source, we can actually appreciate a man's provision so much more. Whereas before, when I was married for so long, I hadn't even done those things. I know when I we went to Switzerland, Terry, that was my first time in my life renting a car. And we were what? That was my first time in life renting a car by myself and dry. I didn't even drive for two years because of my driving. And I was driving through the fucking ice and snow.
- [32:32]
B
She wanted to stay late. I would leave and she wanted to stay so.
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A
And so spirit was.
- [32:36]
B
And it was so freeing. Yeah.
- [32:38]
A
That now I know no matter what happens in a relationship, like, like I'm I got me. I'm good. I got me. And then it's like, you can actually experience so much more love when it's not like, oh, are you gonna take care of me in this way and that way? And like projecting all of these, like, human need things on a person and then they turn into the role mate rather than the soulmate. And what you're sharing, I really feel, is the new paradigm of love of not like, this is my husband. Oh, it's not you. It's then has to be. This has to be my husband. Like, there's so much space in between to exchange codes, to learn from people. And what I've learned too, in my travels is like, when I was in India, there was some. Someone I. Well, two people that I. That I connected very, very deeply with. Like deep soul connections.
- [33:26]
B
Yeah.
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A
That I would not have had that level of soul connection probably here in LA with them because it's like, oh, we live here. Is this going to be something or not? But it was like they knew I was on there for a period of time. And so it was just like, tell me everything. Tell me about your childhood. Tell me. And it was like, oh, girl. It was hard to let go of. But there was something around the loss of the pressure.
- [33:47]
B
Yeah.
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A
Of we get to just experience love in this moment.
- [33:50]
B
Yeah.
- [33:51]
A
But I will say it is hard, though, having had that kind of experience of like, then going on the date of like, what are you looking for and what are your. About, like that more date conversation feels.
- [34:02]
B
You also, like, love doing that. Like, I have never. I don't. I haven't even done any of that. That, you know, I don't love doing it.
- [34:08]
A
I hate doing it.
- [34:09]
B
But you keep putting yourself through it.
- [34:12]
A
Well, you tell me if someone is calling in romantic partner and relationship.
- [34:18]
B
Yeah.
- [34:18]
A
Do you feel that, like, from a ritualistic perspective, just, like, focus on what you're calling in and say no to everything that's not that. Or go on dates with people even if you're, like, not totally attracted to them. I'm not really sure about them, but.
- [34:33]
B
Let me see again, that's what Witchel is all about. You two of your most valuable resources are. Well, one, your most valuable resource is your time. So how you spend your time is with what you place your attention on. This is like where you're focused, whether it. Whatever it is in your life and then whatever the intention of that focus is. So if you want to, you know, go to work one day and you want to feel inspired and motivated, that's a very different intention than like, God, I hate to this job, this sucks. Like, I just, I don't even want to go there. There's. And you're stewing in that. That's where you're placing your focus and that's the intention that you're just looping in your mind. That's not a great use of your time or your attention or your intention. You can really make big shifts. And so for me, you know, I do function a little bit differently. I know we were going to do an episode on celibacy, which we've now certainly both not stayed into.
- [35:28]
A
Well, you were celibate for three years. I was celibate for two and a half years. So we are celibacy.
- [35:32]
B
Exactly. Yes, we are indeed. And we've both since been really well fucked, thank heavens. And yeah, I mean, I was celibate before my long term relationship and then celibate again for over a year before I met the Viking. And lord have mercy, it was really important and beautiful time. And so there is for me, the ritualistic way of doing it is by being incredibly intentional about my time and my energy. I don't want to go on random dates with people that I don't think would be my person. And when I met this man, I did not think anything of it. Like, my friends, like, oh, he looks like Captain America. Oh, he's like, what, this Abercrombie model? I know. Yeah, I know. God bless. No, like, so sexy. Like, so gorgeous. 6 4. You know, like, like tree I like to climb, you know, but he's just not my type. Like, I've never, I've never even like kissed a blonde guy before. Maybe like one time.
- [36:30]
A
Okay, so what do you think about types and in dating? Let go.
- [36:34]
B
Okay, wait, let's answer the question because. Well, because I. If I had judged this book by his cover, I would never have gotten the medicine that I've gotten. If I had just said I don't like blondes, I would never have learned to be loved the way that I have been where like every part of myself that I love about myself is loved. He sent me this whole voice note, like, bitch, you are literally Professor McGonagall. Like, I can't believe it. Like, you have this absurd dream and you're actually living it. I just watched you teach Hogwarts in the Redwoods to all these witches who are studying under you. Like, you're the Young Hot Professor McGonagall and I get to sleep with you. This is awesome. Like, I know we love him. We're so obsessed with him. He's the best. Thank God this won't come out till December. I don't know why it just doesn't feel like exactly right. I don't know why it just doesn't feel like the forever thing. It feels like my pre made playmate, the little girl in me. Some of the, like, tantrum me. Oh, you know, some of that shit that I was still doing up until this summer. I went back to Colibri, that festival that you and I went to a couple of years ago, and I was still being like a brat. And I saw those patterns and I was like, fuck, I don't want to be like this. I don't want to be pokey. I don't want to be avoidant and multiple. Like, on multiple different sides with him. I can't raise my voice at him. And you know, who wore the pants in my last relationship? Like, who was in charge, who was fucking driving the ship and who was kind of a slave driver sometimes, like, bitch. You know, like, I'm not ashamed. I'm fully. I take responsibility for the role that I played in that relationship. Rage is a reactive emotion. I was reacting a lot to a lack of safety. But like, Like, I still chose to react like that. I can't raise my voice with this man. You don't go above a 2. Like, if you get above a 2, it's like, hey, chill. And if you don't, it's like, I said, chill. She's, like, getting wet. I've never had a man put my fur vest. Lord have mercy.
- [38:45]
A
Isn't it funny how even if in partnerships, we want someone who actually won't put up with our worst?
- [38:50]
B
Oh, completely good.
- [38:53]
A
I want someone who's going to accept me at my worst, but we actually want someone's, like, who's gonna call you.
- [38:57]
B
On your at your worst.
- [38:58]
A
I. I love you, but I'm not gonna accept this.
- [39:00]
B
Yeah. This is not okay.
- [39:01]
A
Because we want to be better people.
- [39:03]
B
Exactly.
- [39:03]
A
And so we want to be around those who make us better people that call us forward. And I learned too, even in dating. Like, I used to be such a chill girl.
- [39:11]
B
Yeah.
- [39:12]
A
You know, that's what love me for you, Birdie man. By yourself. Go for it. You can do whatever you want. You don't even need to freaking hang out with me. Love you. Whenever you have time for me, I'll be here. Like, that is what I was taught to be like as a wife. And now just having experienced so many boys and, like, that I'm just like, you said we were gonna FaceTime at this time. You didn't show up. I don't. This connection's gonna work. Like, I'm just like, like, bye. Next. Yeah, there are other people out there and it makes the man so much more attracted to you.
- [39:45]
B
100.
- [39:46]
A
He has to be on his like the jujitsu teacher, you know.
- [39:50]
B
Yeah, he, we had a really powerful experience with that where I, you know, he hit up against a wall and was like, I don't think I can do this anymore. And I was like, okay, no problem. And we were like, you know, let's just be friends. And then we were kind of like playing in this weird ambiguous space for a week. And I just said to him, I was like, look, we have had an insane amount of growth in the month that we've been together. We've been on this little like, okay, we're not doing it for a week, that's fine. But I don't do anything in my life half assed. And so if I'm gonna have an engagement with you at all, it's gonna be sex ritual and quantum growth and ceremony and personal development and going into all of our wounds. And if you don't wanna do that, that's totally fine. And I love you and I will still love you forever and we can be friends for the rest of our lives. But I'm not interested in this like, middle ground. And he immediately was like, let's go do a ritual right now. And it's been fucking on ever since. And so what kind of sex rituals.
- [40:42]
A
Do you guys do? Let's hear the fucking tea. Oh God.
- [40:46]
B
Oh no.
- [40:47]
A
Give us some intro.
- [40:48]
B
Well, some of the really deep stuff that we've been doing is psychodrama to heal the abuse that both of us have had. So we've both had different types of violations and sometimes you haven't been able to stand up for yourself in those spaces. And so we've done medicine ceremonies and gone really deep and played out some of the situations where there's been violation and letting one or the other say what they needed to say when being abused or being molested and stand up for themselves and fight back. And like, you know, the other listens instead of continues and, and steps away. And there's a lot of things. I mean, the other day I just used his as a, as a cervix wand. Like I just needed to do a little de armouring. I could feel a lot of pain in the back of my body. And he just like, how does that.
- [41:47]
A
Are you on top of him?
- [41:48]
B
Yeah.
- [41:49]
A
Okay.
- [41:50]
B
Yeah. And so I could feel a lot of pain in the back of my yoni, and I just, like, used his as a wand and did some de. Armoring with myself and, like, was chanting and totening and moving and using the snake and, like. Like, letting all this come out. You know, there's some, like, mommy and baby and daddy and daddy's little girl stuff that's really fun. Obviously, we're doing a lot of switching back and forth.
- [42:17]
A
Who's also that.
- [42:19]
B
Oh, my God, he did give me permission. I know what she's really up to. Yeah, he gave me permission. And he and I will talk about it eventually, whether it's when we're still together and engaging or once the container closes. But, I mean, you know, I've always had big dick energy and have always had a really strong masculine side. You and I both share that in very different ways. And coming into our feminine has been so healing. And I didn't realize how much of my masculine side was so wounded. Was, like, coming from a need to prove myself, a need to. Need to provide for myself, a need to be big, to be successful, to keep up, like, with my friends. You know, when we met, you were already successful and I wasn't. You know, like, I have a lot of friends like that. Obviously, Layla and I were such close friends when I was living in her guest room for free. And so now that I've had this experience of becoming an entrepreneur and a CEO and building a business and making money and hitting the numbers and scaling and all the things, I didn't realize that there was still a lot of wounded masculine patterning in that. And I had, as you know, you know, a very challenging time with my masculine side in my last partnership because I was always making more money, and everyone assumed it was the other way around. And it was very. My success was shamed and. And got a lot of, like, disdain. And so for me to be able to be in my empowered daddy energy, which sometimes does involve using a cock and having a cock and being able. Like, I did. I haven't even told her this. There was, like, this one moment in the medicine ceremony and, like, medicine mdma.
- [43:51]
A
Okay.
- [43:52]
B
Light dose. But, you know, just the two of us, really beautiful. We were like, let's. We, like, got invited to a party that night. We were like, nah, let's just stay home and all night. And we did. It was wonderful. And it went. I just made him beg for it for five hours. It was great. And at one point, I have this on. Right? And I. You know, on Molly, you get a little, like. And I was just stroking it, and it became part of my. My body, and it was attached to me, and I could feel myself, like, standing there, like, jerking myself off. This is really not where I thought this was going for my. For my. Buy my book, everybody.
- [44:27]
A
Okay, yeah, this is what we really want to hear, but this is the.
- [44:30]
B
Real, you know, this. And only with you will I share this.
- [44:32]
A
We're not.
- [44:32]
B
We can't talk about this with strangers. On different podcasts, when you talk with your bestie, you can talk about it. And it's been profound.
- [44:38]
A
You were feeling the strokes. Oh, my God. I.
- [44:41]
B
It was my. I was like, this is mine. This, like, this. This, like, this is.
- [44:45]
A
We all have an energetic dick, just like every man has an energetic womb.
- [44:48]
B
Exactly. And so that's what actually started our interaction together.
- [44:52]
A
Do you feel your inner masculine would be him? Because I've heard we're, you know, we're attracted to our anima and animus. Yeah, it's him for sure.
- [44:59]
B
Maybe not, like, the coloring, like I said, you know, I see myself as this, like, you know, like a black dude.
- [45:05]
A
Right. But she is, like, strawberry blonde, so. Right.
- [45:09]
B
But. But the way he is, like, the stillness and the solidity and even, like, his coldness, you know, is sort of my. That part of me that's like, well, this. I'm out of here. Like, I'm gonna run. You know, they say never, like, say that in a fight with your partner because it's just, like, it creates such a lack of safety. That was always my tactic. Oh, if I don't like this, like, well, then this. I'm gone.
- [45:32]
A
Peace.
- [45:32]
B
Like, I'm out. I don't need this. Like, I'm good, you know? And so, yeah, there's a lot of ways that his behavior to me does feel like just this is. And, you know, world champion in jiu jitsu. Like, I would murder people if I was bigger. You know, I. Like, you would not be able to fuck with me if I was bigger. Like, watch out. And. And we actually had. That was another one of these rituals that we did was like, I was really crying and screaming and freaking out. Like, I used to be as big as you. No one could violate me. No one could harm me. Like, yeah, I have almost as many memories of being a man as I do of being a woman. And so I. And I was just, like, sobbing, and.
- [46:11]
A
Like, no one could hurt me.
- [46:13]
B
Like, I was so big, and he's like, fucking me. And he grabs me and stopped me. He's like, you are not a fucking victim. And, like, he just said it to me, and it just, like. And was so true. And another ritual we were doing, like, we were just in this thing, and I, like, lost the plot for a second, and I was like, oh, wait a second. Like, I just. What did you just say? Like, I. I left for a second. And he was like, stay here. And I was like, yeah, yeah, yeah, keep me here. And he's like, that is not my fucking job. And he's right. It was so hot. And I, like, instantly burst into tears. Not because of him saying it's not my fucking job, but because he's right. It's not his job to keep me here. It's my job to keep me here. If I want to be present, that's on me, not on him. And there have just been so many moments where, like, he will fucking dominate the energy in a way that. Oh, like, no, I need it. I want someone who's not afraid of me and who can contain me. I've wanted that my entire life, and I've never gotten it. And so, yeah, those are some of the, like, nice.
- [47:18]
A
I used to call this title, how to Be Fucked Like a Witch.
- [47:24]
B
It's not clickbait. It's real.
- [47:25]
A
Okay, well, I just want to acknowledge. I don't know if I can see this on air, but, like, how unhappy you were sexually.
- [47:35]
B
Yeah.
- [47:35]
A
In your past relationship and being a sex witch, you were doing these practices to create that space within yourself, that untethering of knots and everything in our cervix, everything in our womb, and. And you wanted so deeply for someone to do your partner, to do these rituals with you, and he was. Was not willing to. And you were in this loop of, like, maybe I just am okay with this. Maybe I just don't ever have this in this lifetime. And I'm so happy for you and inspired by you that you are experiencing what I believe sex is here to be for, which is to heal, which is to actually, like, bring that energy of, like, the deepest penetrating love to our deepest wounds and shadows and integrating them at the same time. Like, like, that is the thing of dreams. Truly. More than 50 Shades of Gray, more than Pornhub, whatever the shit is. Like that.
- [48:29]
B
Yeah.
- [48:29]
A
To be able to, like, you know, women are so concerned with how do I look on top? Let alone to be like, yo. Exactly. And it's, like, not, like, not pleasure in it for him at all, like, physically, but like from heart, space. And like, that is. That's the most beautiful thing I've ever heard. And it inspires me because it shows me that it's possible.
- [48:55]
B
Yeah.
- [48:55]
A
And also I hope for everyone listening, it's like these realms exist.
- [49:00]
B
100.
- [49:01]
A
And there's nothing deeper than sexuality that literally cracks you open. It's inside of your body in the darkness. We want to talk about the snake.
- [49:09]
B
The darkness literally there.
- [49:11]
A
It's your. It's your. It's your cauldron within. And to be able to be in that safety with someone who loves you and wants the best for you, to be able to like, like hold. It's like, wow. Like, I'm sure women are like, where the did you find this Viking?
- [49:25]
B
Where do I. I know. God bless him. I wish we could just replicate him, but he's one of a kind, this guy.
- [49:30]
A
He does do sessions.
- [49:31]
B
He does. He definitely does sessions. If you, if you want, if you.
- [49:34]
A
Have a manual sessions. No.
- [49:36]
B
Lord have mercy. Thank God. That's just for me. And even that, that's something that I want to share that has become relevant just recently. They do exist. It does take a very brave man to be doing the kind of work on themselves that he has been doing and to be with a woman like me. But even like he sent me just before I came in here, he was like, you know, we've both been told how intense we are, how difficult we are, how challenging it is to be with us, and yet here we are being with each other and it feels so easy and it feels effortless and like the way that you like the way that I'm able to love him because of how he makes me feel safe, girl. I'm like, I get to actually, like, love him with the depths of my love. And I'm good at it with him. Cause I feel safe. It's like unbelievable. And I think that also, you know, he had never been monogamous before. And I just was like, look, I like to fuck around at play parties, you know, I'll kiss a girl, whatever. Like, I'm down for a threesome. But I like, I want to be in primary partnership with someone. I'm not open like that. And for the first time in his life, he was like, okay, let's do it. And it's actually been incredibly easy for him. And he like, had this whole process about being a one woman man. And then the reason that he wasn't is because he wasn't getting all the things that he needed. And like, he wasn't getting them from one person. So he's, like, reaching. I love you right now because, like, reaching out for something that he wasn't getting. And. And that, like, that's something that I do want to say to women. When we get delusional about thinking that we're going to change a bad boy, that's not helpful. But every man will change for the right woman. Every single man. I trust that without a shadow of a doubt, I have seen a man that I could not have expected less from show up and give me more than I could have dreamed of. And so I know that even the, like, naughtiest, sluttiest, baddest boys.
- [51:43]
A
Well, don't give us hope.
- [51:44]
B
Please. Please.
- [51:44]
A
No.
- [51:45]
B
When they feel safe, though, right? What does that look like for us both to create safety? When they feel safe, they won't need that thing. They won't have that voracious hunger that they're trying to fill in the same way. And now we can't be delulu and think that, like, oh, I'm gonna be the one. But when we are the one together, when, like, we find the alchemy and we're willing to use sex. Sex as this alchemical portal, and we're willing to show those weak sides of ourselves and work through them and take responsibility for them and not for someone else. Okay, to be our attachment figure, but also to be, like, the solution to all of our problems, then there is space for a kind of love that, yeah, like, I didn't know existed before this.
- [52:30]
A
When you met him, did you know that he had access to these realms?
- [52:35]
B
Like, no. When I met him, I thought he was a dumpling and that I was going to be able to eat him for breakfast.
- [52:41]
A
How'd you guys meet?
- [52:42]
B
We met with someone recommended I do sessions with him to heal. Cut out those last breakup bits.
- [52:48]
A
Okay, so you met him and you were doing sessions with him. And how did it turn into more?
- [52:53]
B
We had a conversation about something else. A woman that he was seeing, and I led him into the serpent, and I was like, you need. You can't treat women like this. Like, you don't have a great reputation, bro. And you need to be able to feel your inner feminine, and you need to feel your wound, and you're.
- [53:09]
A
So you weren't attractive at the beginning.
- [53:10]
B
No, I mean, like, he's objectively hot.
- [53:13]
A
Was he attracted to.
- [53:14]
B
There's a lot of, like, nuance that I could tell you off air about some of those things he had heard about me before from my ex. They knew each other and they were, like, talking about me. And he heard those things and was like, I feel like I would fuck with that girl. And he said, I just terrified them so much. He was like, wow, if any woman can put the fear of God into these two, like, I want to know who that is. And then when we met and I was sharing some things, and he didn't know I was the same person as had been talked about in that context when we met, he said that, you know, I was sharing all of my wounds. I was projecting all my shit on the masculine onto him. And he was like, I feel like I could hold this. I feel like I could love these parts that she thinks are unlovable. And he said he kind of just fell in love with me, you know, being in my vulnerability all the way. And so then I was leading him through this tantric practice in relationship to a different woman, and he just fucking received my medicine. He's, like, moving and shaking, and, like, the Kundalini's rising up. I'm feeling his energetic womb opening. He's rooting down into the earth and, like, letting the trunk of the tree rise up through his spine. And the. It was just so enlivening and so beautiful. And that was, like you said, all I wanted from my last partnership. It's like, let's just fucking do magic together. I have all this power. I want to do something with it, with you. Like, come on. And I didn't even have to enroll him. I just started doing it. And he immediately received it and took it in and was so grateful for it. And, yes, at the end of that practice, we'd only done two sessions over, like, it had been. I met him in May, and then we met in July for another session, whatever. And then he came out of that practice, and he was like, I've never met a woman with bigger dick energy than me. And I feel like you could really hold my feminine side. You want to peg me? And I was like. First I burst out laughing.
- [55:10]
A
Hadn't kissed or anything yet. Nothing.
- [55:12]
B
We were. No, nothing.
- [55:14]
A
So how would the pegging have gone down?
- [55:16]
B
What do you mean?
- [55:17]
A
Like, you would just have done it, but, like, you guys wouldn't be making out or something before?
- [55:21]
B
No, he wasn't asking me to do it right then. It was like. Like, would that be something you were interested in doing?
- [55:27]
A
And then, like, in what but that? Like, in what kind of context?
- [55:31]
B
Who knows? But luckily, we went to Bali for a destination wedding after that and had an accidental romantic vacation. We're together every Single day, almost all day for two weeks.
- [55:41]
A
Just like kept putting you guys 100.
- [55:44]
B
Yeah. And then I went to Burning man. And then it was kind of like, okay, let's take a break. And we took a break for a couple of weeks because we'd just gone on full force. Like from the moment we got to Bali, it was on.
- [55:52]
A
What's your guys first kiss? Like, why is this the question where.
- [55:58]
B
Where. Let's talk about something else.
- [56:02]
A
Just how serious. We'll move on.
- [56:04]
B
Oh, my God. I made him tell me why he wanted to fuck, why he wanted me to fuck him first and then why he wanted to fuck me. And then. And he gave me some really beautiful responses. Things like, I think you can hold the messy parts of me that no one else can hold. I feel your power is capable. He's like, I feel how much you want sexuality to be magical. And that's a realm like it's only ever been this, like, not that way for me. But he's explored all the depths of it and all the flavors and all the textures of it up, you know, in the like, sexual energy, but not in the sacred or in the sensual. And so he really liked that. And there was several other like, really beautiful things. And then we just very, very slowly he was surrendered. I have a name for his feminine side that's I'm not gonna say on the Internet because then everyone know who he is, but it's a really significant name to me and means so much. And. And when he goes into that part of himself, even, you know, this giant, insane, ripped, fucking hot, that thick man, he just surrenders. And he just like had his hands above his head and was just looking at me. And it's like his eyelashes get longer and he just gets a little softer. This, like, you know, square jaw, like, softens a little bit. He just becomes her. And I just looked down at him and like caressed his little face. And we just got closer and closer and closer and closer and closer and closer until we were just like breathing each other and really slowly. And then I don't remember who. Like, it was very slow. It was just like little, tiny, tiny little. Touching our lips at first and then just like melting into each other. It was good. It's been good.
- [57:59]
A
That's exactly it. Sex is magical.
- [58:02]
B
Yeah. And that's what we've been using it for is like, let's heal. Let's deal with every bit of our.
- [58:08]
A
Like, we do the ritual work and the inner spiritual work, the sadhana ourselves, but it's for the Devotion. Like, it's for the Shiva Shakti.
- [58:20]
B
Like 100.
- [58:21]
A
And it's like. And it's a. And it's a yin yang. Like, it's not only. And then you give up on your own practice. No, you know, in my own, you know, yoni D armoring and. And self pleasure realms that I never was in. In my married life.
- [58:35]
B
Yeah.
- [58:36]
A
I've sometimes wondered. It's like, wait, I can't lose this ever. And it's like, you won't. You know, because once you know it, it. But it's to be poured into something that's being created that is beyond you.
- [58:48]
B
Yeah. 100.
- [58:49]
A
A unique tapestry that only two planets colliding together can make. And that's why, like, I was thinking about, like, you know, often in our minds, we replace certain things a lot. And for me, it's always moments of love. And it's like, why do we replay those moments of love so much? And I was thinking, because it's the most powerful force on this planet. It's like what made the. The big bang happen.
- [59:12]
B
Yeah.
- [59:13]
A
You know, it's like.
- [59:13]
B
Sounds like a big orgasm.
- [59:14]
A
Yeah, it's. But that's what it is. It's like two atoms. It's like, first, the two planets are circulating around each other. You know, these two people. Maybe you and him were in each other's fields. He heard of you. You never heard of him. Maybe you guys were, like, at the same party, but, like five minutes before.
- [59:28]
B
You left and it' literally happened.
- [59:30]
A
Yeah. Like you weren't meant to meet, but you're spiraling. You're spiraling, you're spiraling, but you're starting to feel like something's close, something's shifting until finally you're both ready for the unique chemistry needed for you to meet. And then the circling around. Like you meet each other, but you don't see each other for months. You meet each other this, that, that, up to the moment of the kiss. That's why I asked about the kiss, because it's like the tension is building, building, building until that union. And then this barrier has been been crossed and there's no going back to who you were before that moment. It's like, oh. And from the kiss, you know everything.
- [60:02]
B
Yeah, you can. And even we were together all day for a whole week in Bali, every day before it even happened. It happened the very last night. We were all together at, like, for the wedding.
- [60:13]
A
I am obsessed with conversations like this. With your spiritual besties. You can tell, like, the honesty and the vulnerability that Me and I are having, we've been besties for eight years and this is what I want for you. I know so many women reach out to me. They're like, how do I make friends like this who get me on a soul level that I can dive deep with, share about sex, magic and rituals and past lives and ancestral healing and just like all of the juiciness of life. Like I want to connect with women on this deeper level, but I don't know anyone around me. This is why I've created Rose Gold Goddesses. It's an extremely affordable membership program for listeners of this podcast where every single month we gather in live ritual that I lead related to the full moon. So we are doing templ dance, goddess breath work release rituals, descending into the darkness, tapping into our past lives, channeling our intuition, manifesting our new year. That's what we're going to be doing for our January circle. So it's going to be all about mapping out our 2026 and actually allowing our highest self to channel through what's in our highest alignment and not coming from the ego. So like, if I'm speaking your language, these are the people in Rose Gold Goddesses. So you can join just the the monthly temple circle for $29. So just $29. It's the cost of, of a meal out and you're going to be able to be part of this community and if you want to dive deeper and have access to over 300 different goddess circles, our Dharma support circles, our other three monthly calls that we have in full access to the sisterhood, that's 55amonth. So it's super affordable. I've been running the school for six years now and this conversation is the kind of conversation that the ladies in RGG are having. So you are Rose Gold Goddess. You are a sacred site and you deserve friends that, that meet you on a soul level so you can evolve together. So head over to the show notes rose or rosegoalgoddesses.com the shownotes will have access to both just the monthly circle or full access to the community. And I can't wait to see you in our January 6th New Year circle. All right, now let's get back into the conversation so that build up that buildup of like and I think with I'm curious, we're all curious how the story will unfold.
- [62:18]
B
I know who knows?
- [62:20]
A
It's a mystery to, to love someone without the masks, without the rules, without just like, this is who I am. And that's what's so beautiful about being friends with someone first.
- [62:29]
B
Yeah.
- [62:29]
A
Because you're just being your friend self where you say all your. And then you add love to that. Whereas most of us, we just want love. So we're in the, like, here's how to talk to someone to get love. And this is what the performance of love is. And then it's like, oh, it's not even about you. It's just about, I want love. And can you fill in the role that I need for that? And so I. I love the. Whether this is the practice for the next or it's like. But the thing is, it's never practice because.
- [62:54]
B
Yeah, who cares? It's.
- [62:55]
A
The thing is you have both shifted as people and completely. If a love changes who you are and you are never the same on the other side, it's like, if that is always worth it. And I feel the things that we regret are lust. You know, the things that we regret are abandoning our own body, but we never regret true love. And it's like these moments you will remember on your death. Deathbed for sure. Always, like, he will always be a part of your life story.
- [63:17]
B
And, oh, my God, he is a pivotal moment in my lore. I learned you wrote this chapter to love myself, and I learned to be loved.
- [63:27]
A
So for someone who's listening right now that wants to bring more magic, more ritual to their sex life.
- [63:34]
B
Yeah.
- [63:35]
A
What is. Where's a good place to start?
- [63:36]
B
What's so interesting about that, that you also just touched on, is that I had done so much of this work, like a decade of tantric work on my own. Right. And there's only so far you can get in personal practice until you have to do it with someone else. So it's a lot of different things. We love the Layla practice. The fears, desires and loves. Sharing your fears, sharing your desires, sharing what you love about yourself or what you love about the other person. We've done both. Really great way to just be in vulnerability. Questions like, what's on your heart that you haven't shared this week? Like, what's alive for you that you feel like I haven't heard, that you feel like needs to be heard or that I'm not listening to? For us, there's also a lot of just uncontained. Not that they're uncontained, but like, we are allowed with one another to bring anything. He's like, hey, so something came up, right? Whatever it was, it was like I made some comment about something three days ago, and he's still thinking about it like, I said something. I was just kind of joking, but I was like, well, yeah, because I could just. I could just destroy you. And it was like a weird, casual threat that I was using to protect myself. And he was like, when you say that, you know that I don't give a. About that type of destruction. Oh, you might be able to, what, try to ruin my reputation? Tell some people whose opinions about me I don't actually really care about? But because you have a platform or you have a large audience, and you would potentially. This is like, you know, we were playing out this, like, potential you would want to attack me or, like, turn people against me. He's like, I will still know who I am. And in that way, I am indestructible. And so I didn't like that you said that. It was like a passing thing that I had said, like, talking about this weird, you know, so bringing everything. That is also how I started with him. When I was in my first session with him, I said all the things. I was like, I'm not attracted to you. Everyone says you're so hot. But, like. Like, I don't know. This feels weird to me. Like, am I supposed to feel desire? Because I don't feel desire, but, like, I get that you're hot. And, like, what? And I just said everything. I did not hold anything back. I was like, I want to be free.
- [65:43]
A
So you guys had already kissed and stuff, but you still weren't feeling totally attracted to him?
- [65:46]
B
No, no. That was in the beginning. In our sessions, I just said everything. No. Once the energy shifted in Bali, especially because he. Your ass knows Bali, girl. He picks me up on a scooter and drove me all around town without gps. I was like, didn't you just get here yesterday? He's like, yeah. I was like, have you ever been here before? He's like, no. He just, like, in one day of driving around for 30 minutes in the afternoon, like, learned all the streets in Bali. Oh, my God. I got to just be passenger princess on the back of this little scooter.
- [66:19]
A
And I was like, who knows?
- [66:21]
B
Direction.
- [66:22]
A
Oh, my God, it was so hot, I lost it.
- [66:25]
B
So that was the mo. I was like. That was the first day. I was like, panties wet, like, okay, I. I can trust him. This is amazing.
- [66:31]
A
Another good question to ask a guy is, what do you do if you see a black bear versus if you see a grizzly bear? Be with a man that knows the answer. I mean, do you know the answer?
- [66:43]
B
He's from the Yukon, so.
- [66:46]
A
Because It's. It's different responses.
- [66:48]
B
Well, with a grizzly bear, I know you want to get, like, far away quickly, but without running, and so you, like, back away. But with a black bear, you want to make noise and scare them. Exactly, yeah.
- [67:00]
A
Black bear, you want to intimidate them. Grizzly bear, you want to, like, pretend you're dead.
- [67:03]
B
Yeah.
- [67:04]
A
So you meet the man that knows these things, girl.
- [67:07]
B
He used to get dropped off in the Yukon and have to chop out a helipad with an ax to. For them to be able to pick him up after he'd been out there in the woods for a while. So we trust him in the woods, that's for sure. He knows how to use an ax.
- [67:21]
A
You know, it's kind of sad, though, like, how our society today rewards masculinity of who has the most money, which is often the people who are very in their heads, like AI tech people.
- [67:33]
B
But they're very so over that.
- [67:37]
A
They are more masculine in the way of. They have resources, they can, you know, provide, need a home and, you know, things like that that are also masculine qualities. And it's how our society whereas the actual, like, masculine embodiment, things like survival and, you know, like. Like fixing things in the home building. But what I find hard is, like, I am physically attracted to that, but then it's like, oh, but the kind of life that I want requires money. And so if I find a farmer, you know, so it's like you sent.
- [68:08]
B
Me on Instagram, though, the other day, he looks like he's got his together.
- [68:11]
A
I know, but he's married.
- [68:12]
B
Well, obviously we're not gonna get that exact farmer. We're gonna have that type of. Right.
- [68:17]
A
So I feel like it's hard because it's like, it's the physical masculinity versus the mental, like, masculinity.
- [68:24]
B
Yeah. And I think this is something you and I are really exploring and we've been talking about a lot lately. Offline is for me right now, the spiritual nutrients and the nourishment that I am getting in this relationship, I actually wouldn't trade for a man who's wealthier than him. Like, it is so valuable. And he and I have talked about this because when everyone's like, oh, why? How come he's not your person? A lot of my reasoning has been like, well, I don't want to be the one who makes more money again. I actually do want to be taken care of. Like, the way that my soul is being taken care of by this man. It's like who cares? And I also believe we're talking about rituals. I also believe that I can have it all. And his love has taught me that because I've been getting things that I never imagined I could get from a man just based on like what my last partnership was like. And so if that's true or he could just make money, I mean he is going to be a really big teacher. I'm going to blow his ass up in a minute.
- [69:26]
A
But you guys can teach this. Work together girl.
- [69:29]
B
I know we've, and we've talked about that. We've let ourselves go fully into fantasy land about what if, if we are each other's person. Of course we'd both be surprised but like what if we did just like.
- [69:38]
A
How old is he?
- [69:38]
B
34.
- [69:39]
A
Yeah, I'm 34.
- [69:41]
B
I know, yeah, I'm a little older than you. So he's not a baby. No, he's not a baby and he's more of a man than 99 of the men that I know even who are older and like trying to get their together, you know, or have the money, whatever.
- [69:54]
A
This next generation, like the 30 year olds I've dated are more mature emotionally than the 40 year olds.
- [70:01]
B
But you've heard also that like women in their 30s now there's like some new studies being shown about the level of like happiness, health, well being for us dating younger men, it's like a thing.
- [70:12]
A
Everyone I know is with a younger man, it's literally a thing.
- [70:14]
B
There's like science proving how good it is for us, but it's actually like way more healthy.
- [70:19]
A
When we're in our mid-30s, we're actually in our sexual peak. We know our bodies, we're not afraid of saying things like that. I totally would not have even had the awareness or courage to in my 20s. So it's actually the perfect fit because then men who are in their 20s and early 30s, they're in their sexual peak and there's like. And they like they like worship us.
- [70:37]
B
Yeah, they worship us. Yeah.
- [70:38]
A
But it feel so precious for me too. It's been that like that money piece and also just a little bit of like you haven't even been through your Saturn return. Like you don't even know.
- [70:47]
B
Well I haven't been going that young hard school for wayward boys.
- [70:52]
A
Yeah, they're like 28. Okay.
- [70:54]
B
Yeah. But at least this one's been through a Saturn return and is Jesus year. Thank God.
- [70:58]
A
Exactly. So I'm like before that. But, but that's what younger is for me. Yeah.
- [71:03]
B
Naughty witch. Yeah. And, and, and look, look. I think that those things are beautiful. And, and I am like, I know that I could build a kind of life that I would be happy and fulfilled with with him. Is it like that one? You know, when you and I went to Davos and flew first class together when like my partner flew coach by himself, you know, for three stops, the flight before. And I was like, like, sorry, I'm gonna go with Sahara and take my nice flight. Like, you know, cuz that's what I want to do.
- [71:32]
A
I didn't know that he. Yeah.
- [71:34]
B
And so like, you know the black cat. Yeah, we had a cat. We were dj. Yeah, we were. That was one of my favorite flights of all time. Like that was iconic. You know, we were talking about how beautiful it was for us to get to be able to do that. That flight was many thousands of dollars. For us to be able to fly that way together was really fun and amazing. And I don't want to not, not have that as part of my life in existence. What am I gonna flight past this year? Thank goddess.
- [72:01]
A
But, but also like, but money changes. We didn't, we didn't always have money.
- [72:05]
B
No.
- [72:06]
A
You know.
- [72:09]
B
Super broke.
- [72:11]
A
Yeah, exactly. So it's like money is not like a stagnant thing.
- [72:14]
B
No. And look at us now where like money has shifted. We've like reached these high pinnacles and then like experienced it not being the most important thing in our lives and seeing how much more value we feel internally and we feel with the types of relationships we have and we feel with the ways that we're spending our time. There are things that matter more, you know, and, and that's that wounded masculine piece, you know, like even for me getting to hold the masculine role. Do you know how much effort is required to be the masculine in lovemaking? Oh my God. There are so many factors. There are so many different things you have to manage and like watch out for and like opening their body and making sure they feel safe and like being present. Then you're like excited because you're turned on and you just want to. But like you need to make sure that you're kissing them and giving them eye contact.
- [73:02]
A
Like it's so crazy.
- [73:05]
B
I was like, it gives me so much compassion for the masculine goddess. Bless them. Like they, when, when a man is actually a conscious and attentive lover, a lot goes into that. A lot.
- [73:17]
A
And those are the things money cannot not because great, you'll be with a guy who you can buy you first class flights wherever and then he's like not present during sex.
- [73:25]
B
Yeah. And if him is uncomfortable or awful.
- [73:28]
A
It'S like not worth it at all.
- [73:30]
B
No. I'd rather stay in a hut on the beach and get really well than be in a five star resort overlooking that.
- [73:35]
A
So who's team them just staying together.
- [73:40]
B
That it might happen and there might be something even better.
- [73:43]
A
But I think for whatever reason, whether it's meant to happen or not, your souls are meant to still as lovers.
- [73:48]
B
Yeah.
- [73:49]
A
For whatever. Freedom.
- [73:52]
B
Yeah.
- [73:52]
A
Of love this is providing you both. And it's like what Osho says, the ultimate love is freedom.
- [73:56]
B
Yep, that's right. And that's really been, you know, learning about the masculine in that way has given me like I'm seeing what just my presence and just my time and just my actual care and tending and just my capacity to hold space and to create a container for him to feel or to be in his pleasure or to be sad or to like say no when someone else didn't listen to that or whatever it is like it's showing me a way forward into inner union that I just could never have known before I would never have. There's no way. And look, it's not like I recommend pegging to everyone. I do actually. Like, if you're a man, we know you want it. And if you're a woman, you also have a masculine side. It's really fun to have an energetic become a physical. Highly recommend. Highly, highly recommend for absolutely anyone. And being able to have those two sides of myself is making me feel more accepting of whatever life offers me. You know, we have these ideas, we have these dreams, we have this lifestyle that we've become accustomed to that's amazing and it's, it's beautiful. And if like the homestead and the ducklings and the goat milk and the flower garden calls to me and, and I must answer, I will know that that's because that's exactly where I'm meant to be. And I feel like we all just think we're supposed to have this one thing. Even something that came up in my retreat so often is like people think that because some people have big social media followings that like everyone has to try and get big on Instagram or get big on TikTok or get big on YouTube. It's not actually for everyone. We're not all supposed to be influencers. And you and I thank God as our spiritual teachers who happen to use our platforms to do that. But like, like I think that we, we really have gotten lost in Our modern day about what it means to have made it, to have been a success. And it's about fulfillment and about contentment and about love and community and safety and being able to say the things that you need to say and be made love to the way that you want to be made love to and dress the way you want to dress. It's about freedom, like you just said. And that to me is what that I've been experiencing here, where all those little whiny, bratty little patterns that I was engaging in, not only had I have I been able to bring them and share them, but they've been met by someone who is so integrated with his masculine and feminine that I can have both the, like, harsh discipline and reflection of, like, actually, that's not okay. And the unconditional love of. And I'm still here for you. And I'll hold you through this part of yourself that is feeling angry or protective, that needs to move or needs to express and that really, you know, for all of us that are looking for deeper, magical sexuality, again, it's just like in the book. It's attention and intention. It's about the way you're breathing. It's about the way you're making eye contact. It's about the way you're connecting with one another. It's about how aware of your body you're being. Are you actually feeling the sensation that you're experiencing? Or are you numb? And okay, if you're feeling numb, like, what about just stopping and be like, hey, babe, hold on. Can you just be with me right here for a second? Can you just breathe with me right here? Or like, hey, can you move your up and a little bit to the right? Like, can you feel that? Where I'm feeling this pain? Usually they can feel it. They can feel it. They're like, yes. Like, okay, can, like, you know, go deeper or, like, go a little less or whatever and just actually be there in the process with one another? And even like, sometimes, you know, if you.
- [77:47]
A
Are you having orgasms from this?
- [77:49]
B
It depends on the situation.
- [77:52]
A
Yeah, that's great.
- [77:53]
B
Yeah.
- [77:53]
A
I think before you weren't having internal orgasms, were you?
- [77:57]
B
Well, I have certainly had a lot of internal orgasms before, but I was not having them very often and so.
- [78:03]
A
Many women never have.
- [78:05]
B
Right.
- [78:05]
A
And so this is also a testament to that work of like, when those parts of you are open first by yourself.
- [78:13]
B
Exactly.
- [78:13]
A
And then with another. The pleasure that is possible on the other side.
- [78:17]
B
Yeah. 100. And what's really beautiful for us Is like, we also don't really strive for orgasm. And so, like, we'll just go all night. All night and just be edging and writing and. Or. Or coming and then just continuing. Like, we both can have multiple. Which is wonderful, you know, and. Yeah, there is. There's so much pleasure. And I've noticed. I mean, I. I've noticed with him, but it makes me think about other men in general, too. Is like, they're not taught that their pleasure is beautiful.
- [78:50]
A
Yeah.
- [78:51]
B
It's either like, go quickly, go fast.
- [78:53]
A
Or like a man of the whole time you're trying to not come. You're like, they're. They're. They've told me things. They think about. They're, like, thinking about trucks, like, things to make them, like, turned off. I'm like, that is crazy, because as women, we're actually, like, so hard. More in it.
- [79:09]
B
What can. I don't think about the groceries.
- [79:11]
A
Don't think about lunch. Like, you know, and they're like grandma's trucks.
- [79:15]
B
Something's.
- [79:17]
A
That's crazy.
- [79:18]
B
Yeah.
- [79:19]
A
No, that's so beautiful because I think within all of us, there's this old, haggard, angry woman that is so angry and hurt.
- [79:29]
B
Yeah.
- [79:30]
A
Been locked in a cage, and she just wants to be. Be Preach.
- [79:37]
B
He said it the other day. He was like, we, like, flew to the redwoods, you know, And. And I was like, yeah. And then I was like, okay, we're gonna get there. And he was like, and then you need some physical time. And I was like, yes, I need some physical time. Like, yeah, we just want to be. But we want to be with love and with presence, and we want to be open to God.
- [79:55]
A
That's why it's like, if it's not that, I'd rather just not literally. I'd literally rather be celibate and wait for that. Because if it's not that, that it's not even. It's. It's void of pleasure, actually. And it's just body sensation rubbing on each other, which is what 99 of people having sex out there are.
- [80:13]
B
Yeah. And nightmare.
- [80:15]
A
And if you're left after the encounter feeling worse, feeling confused, feeling drained. It's like, that wasn't from the energy of love completely.
- [80:24]
B
Yeah. And that's the big distinction in terms of relationships with anyone. Do you feel that this is generative or degenerative? Do you feel like this brings energy to you? Is this revivifying? Do you feel happier? Do you feel more joyful? Do you feel more grateful or not? And even someone. One of my friends Who's a therapist, said something about this of, like, when you're with them or even when you're texting with them, do you feel anxious or do you feel grounded? Do you feel, like, uncertain? Do you feel like you have to play games? Do you feel like you don't know where they stand? Red flags. Get out. Out. Don't around with that anymore. Like, and if you have to be.
- [81:01]
A
Closing your heart to have sex with them because you know you can't get.
- [81:04]
B
Attached, Lord have mercy.
- [81:06]
A
You are literally practicing closing your heart. And so many of us, because we're single, we're not meeting anyone. You come across someone who is good enough for a situationship, which is what so many people are in. And then your body is falling in love because you're literally doing the act of creating life together. But you're telling yourself, no, this isn't my person. This isn't it. And you're closing your heart and it's just like, it's. It's a lack of mind, body, connection. You're practicing dis. Disassociation. And so.
- [81:36]
B
And he and I had to work through a lot of that. Like, that's the thing is that every relationship is going to have a beginning. Yeah, every relationship is going to have that those first couple of times or those first couple of months or weeks, whatever it is, where you don't know and. And you're not sure. And that's been. And you know, those parts are important. And we've been like, even, like the first time we had sex, we joke about it. We call it the Muggle sex. Cause we just. Even after all the buildup and all the conversations and all the healing and day after day after day after day being together on this amazing vacation, we both, like, went into the old pattern and just fucked and just like, did the old stuff. And I tried to, like, rush through it. Cause I'm like, I just want it to be over. And we like, have this whole joke about it because it's normal and it happens to everybody. And nobody is being taught unless you're taking tantra and sacred sexuality courses. No one is being taught how to make sex intentional. Even him. Someone who has, like, had sex as such an intrinsic part of his life for so long. It was never sacred. It was never holy. It's just like, about the energy and the dominance and the submission. Who's wearing the collar and like, oh.
- [82:45]
A
It'S all about power.
- [82:46]
B
Exactly.
- [82:47]
A
And also like, they say if your best time having sex with someone is the first time that's lust because you don't actually know the person. It's just the novelty of it. Right. It's just the novelty of a new body. You don't know where it's going to go. And like that, like, is it going to happen? Is it not? Oh, my God, this is happening. That's just hormones, you know, but like true lovemaking, your first time is the bottom because it's just where it started. You're building and growing from there because you're actually deepening. And so people who are. Are just novel seekers and sexuality more avoidant people. They're not actually making love.
- [83:23]
B
Yeah.
- [83:23]
A
They are just practicing masturbation on human bodies.
- [83:27]
B
Well, when you put it like that. Yeah, we. That's. It's really interesting because, like, the last time that we made love a couple days ago was definitely the best. And.
- [83:35]
A
Well, it's going to keep getting better.
- [83:37]
B
Yeah, he had a. He let me, because I like to bite and he doesn't like to be bitten. And so he was letting me bite him, but, like, there were all these rules. And he was like, okay, you can bite me right here and you can go to a three, you know. And so he's like, okay, you can go a little harder. And I always. He just would, like, slowly let me bite more and more. He's like, okay, now you can bite me right here. And was just like. But I had to be really present in my jaw. And if I would lose presence, he would, like, you know, shake me back into it. And it was just so beautiful. And the other thing is, like, nobody knows how to hold that kind of space. And so the rituals that we get to do are literally just start with, like, one of the things I loved. God, I can't believe we're talking about this. But fuck it. He. I made him greet my. Before he touched her. Or, you know, I was like, sitting there with my legs spread, and I was like, you need to greet her before you kiss her or enter her or whatever. And I was like, tell me what you love about her. And he was like. And he just described her as this, like, mountain ridge, like, nature scene. And I was losing it. I was, like, gushing before he even touched me, you know, because he's learned what. What is important to me and what matters to me. And then it's going to use that to give me what I want. And that's what, to me, creating ritual in sex is about, is. It's not like, here's this prescription. Okay, you need to do this. It's like what do you love and what does your partner love and what do you love doing together? What are you good at? What do you maybe not like? And how can you create an experience with one another that feels really good and really inspiring to you both? And there are so many practices to do, even just sitting in yab yum with one another and like putting your foreheads together and just breathing simultaneously, or doing microcosmic orbits where one inhales when the other exhales and you move the breath and the energy around in a cycle, even just hip rocking, using that serpent within yourselves together even before penetration, moving up the chakra, chakra system. And whether you just make a tone for all of the seven chakras or you use the seed sounds, the sound of each chakra, the bija mantras, any of that is all so good. Even just eye gazing with one another, just being present with each other for a few minutes before making love. There are so many amazing rituals that you can bring into. And then of course, course playing with archetypes. And obviously that goes a lot deeper into like rewriting narratives and stories of people who harmed and hurt you. Playing the parent, right? Like letting him nurse off of me. I wish I had bigger tips for it, you know, but. But that's like signaling to someone that when we're being breastfed, it's like, all is well in the world. I'm safe, I'm nourished, there's enough for me. And so even just playing that role role and letting someone feel that safety again as an adult, especially after we've experienced so much trauma and so many heartbreaks and all the horrible that we have, we're. We're helping that original innocence return. And there's just so much beauty in it. And I, I did not expect this conversation to be about this at all, but my goddess, like I am being healed. Like I have been. Every part of me that ached from my last relationship that felt so ashamed, that felt like there was something wrong with me, every one of those parts has been loved, open. And it's like, you know, like as if he's just licked my, my wounds for me and with me, all of them, you know, but. But it's been, it's been an incredible gift. And I do, that's what I think in terms of the fuckboys and the situationships and all the bullshit. If we are willing to do the work and then we make that devotional commitment to ourselves and do enough of the work. Right. I had to be open. I also had to Say, I don't want these bratty patterns. I don't want this version of me that's playing the little bitchy girl. I want to be a woman. How do I show up as a woman? And I made that choice and then boom, there he was. And. And I also found a playmate who is willing to go to the depths with me. He's got five planets in Scorpio. Like, you know, he can hang, but that's an important marker, right? Does this person take responsibility? Does this person want to grow? Is. Is transformation one of their values? Do they? Because if not, it's gonna be really hard to have this kind of alchemical connection. And you can just like have a cool container with a boy if that's what you want. But I wanted healing and I wanted growth and I wanted reclamation. And so I put up my boundaries. And I think that's the most important thing for women. If you don't have boundaries, like you said about like putting your rules in place and it makes men respect you because there are going to be a lot of women who are just gonna let them do whatever they want. Gonna be the easy girl. I, My ex, my. My like first Partner in my 20s, we had this story that I like Ugly Truth. Tim, remember that movie where like, I think it was Katherine Heigl and Gerard Butler and she like plays this version of herself and then shows him who she really is and it's like the Ugly Truth. And I just played this, like, no problem, I don't care if you fuck other people. Like, I'm chill, I'm relaxed, I don't care. Like, like I played this lie that was so self abandoning and so self sabotaging and self sacrificing that that relationship was based on that version of me. It was based on a version of me that was not true. And that was so wounded because I thought I would not be loved otherwise. If that's what you're choosing your partners on, you're going to be in trouble and they're going to be damaging and they're going to harm you. If you're choosing your partners based on the depth and level of growth that you've committed to within yourself, and then you're like, I'm ready to do the next level. I wanna, I wanna take this up a notch. And you find someone again who's willing to say, hey, like I fucked up here, or hey, I'm sorry, I didn't communicate that, or hey, like I, whatever it is, then you have a real shot at being Able to fall in love with someone that maybe isn't your forever partner or does become that, but in a way that truly heals you on a quantum level. And isn't that thing where like, oh, you have to wait the one year into this relationship where you didn't see the real thing? It's like, oh, no, I got the real thing from day one. And we've been working it together. And that's why for me, on exactly about the three month mark of us having this experience together, I'm a different woman. I treat myself differently, I respond to pain differently. I had, you know, one of these, like big deep wounds of humiliation and abandonment come up last night and I've never felt better. And you know how many times I've gone down into that spiral of like, oh, I'm not supported, no one loves me, I'm alone. Like, it's not true anymore. I've got me and I love me and I'm here for me, me. And I can let this book come out with just me. I don't need anyone or anything else because I know who I am now. And I've found that unfuck with ability and that indestructibility within myself.
- [91:13]
A
And it's sort of like the irony is we've talked all about the sex, it's so fun. But it was really so you could.
- [91:20]
B
Have yourself 100% and believe that I'm lovable, believe that I'm worthy of love, believe that I'm. That these wild parts of me and these crazy things that I'm into, like, I wouldn't have known, I wouldn't have been like, oh yeah, I want to fuck a guy with a strap on. Like, that was not in my thoughts. But if you told me, do you want to learn how to really powerfully heal your wounded masculine and integrate the dark shadow masculine into yourself to give yourself more power? I would have been like, yeah, how do I do that? And I found it through this type of sexual exploration that that has been the best thing that ever happened to me. Really. And yeah, it's, it's medicine. And I think that there's so much more medicine available to all of us that we don't know how to give because we're too afraid to show up as our authentic selves.
- [92:09]
A
And just some things I'm hearing people like, well, how, like, how could I ever even find someone who's like this? It's like, well, letting your freak flag fly, you know, being yourself miles away.
- [92:20]
B
Yeah.
- [92:20]
A
So anyone that's even Coming into acquaintance with you, sees that you are you. And it's repelling to most people, you know, and you've dealt with that certainly. But to actually have the real relationship you want, that repelling. It's not about winning a popularity contest and getting the most number of men who want you. It's about finding that one person that you can truly, truly connect with. So when you are so radically yourself, it's a no, no, no, no, no for all these people. And sometimes it can hurt.
- [92:50]
B
Yeah.
- [92:51]
A
You know, and sometimes there are periods of, of aloneness for long periods of time. But then that person who's like, oh, I'm interested in that. But then even the parts of you that want to contort and hide and like just be in love, can you still let the freak flag fly? Can you still say the uncomfortable thing? Can you still. And not the, the parts that are mean that you want to let go of.
- [93:11]
B
Right.
- [93:11]
A
Those are the things that, that get to be worked through. But the parts that have like, yeah, I'm me and I'm loud and I'm fiery and I'm opinion and I'm eat with my hands and you know, all these things.
- [93:22]
B
Girl literally on the drive back, she's.
- [93:24]
A
Like eating steak like fully.
- [93:26]
B
Literally. Yeah, I am all that. On the drive home from the redwoods, literally. I. We've stopped by a river. I started bleeding. I'm like streaking the moon, blood all down my face, just naked like grunting and moving and shaking my ass. And he, he's just standing there, just letting me do my thing. And then I had the fox carcass that I had not finished skinning actual like an actual fox that I found on the road. I did a whole grief ritual, saw and ritual with my coven with my students in the redwoods. And I didn't finish it because I decided that I was going to strip the paws off, which it turns out takes like 90 minutes per paw. And I didn't account for the time. And so I'm literally skinning this fox. This is how I cut my finger right there in the car with him.
- [94:07]
A
Him.
- [94:07]
B
And he's just driving and he's just like, you are feral. I'm like, I know.
- [94:13]
A
You know, but he's attracted to that.
- [94:15]
B
Yeah, thank that.
- [94:16]
A
Cuz he's too. I'm like, this is hot.
- [94:19]
B
I love myself.
- [94:19]
A
You. You get to be the version of you that you love most with him. And so you're falling in love with who you are in his presence.
- [94:26]
B
Exactly.
- [94:27]
A
And he's like, wow, I've always said I'm this wild man and then this for me to be able to handle and be turned on. Yes, I am this wild man that I say that I am.
- [94:37]
B
That's right.
- [94:38]
A
And so it's like for mutually. It's allowing you both to be more of yourself and that's really what these relationships are. They're like mirrors into us.
- [94:46]
B
Yeah, totally.
- [94:48]
A
So I feel like Spirit gave you this beautiful gift.
- [94:53]
B
Yeah.
- [94:53]
A
Because you it knew you would hold yourself. Now maybe if this had happened, thank.
- [95:00]
B
God as it had faith in me because I wouldn't have known.
- [95:02]
A
Maybe if it happened happened a year ago.
- [95:04]
B
Oh girl, I would have been a train wreck.
- [95:06]
A
Yeah, you would have maybe self abandoned. You would have, you know, just so many different. So just trusting that it's like this is possible for every single person. 100 like I know for myself in my own divorce journey, like so much at the beginning of like if I liked guy would like hide my Instagram stories from him.
- [95:24]
B
What?
- [95:24]
A
Because I didn't want him to see what I was up to. Like, I just didn't want him to know anything about me. I didn't want him to know about my Instagram. I didn't want him to know about my business. Like it's like I just, I don't know, I just, just felt like I don't want him to have all this information about me. I want him to just get to know who I am. But it was also at that time where like the podcasts were really mostly about sexuality. So it was like, God is my dom. And like, you know, and these guys.
- [95:48]
B
Are like, that's such a good practice.
- [95:50]
A
Yeah. So but it was my practice. Like there was this one specific guy who's beautiful guy in London and he's Muslim. And so I knew if he saw God is my dom talking about having a sexual relationship with God, he had, you know, hadn't met him.
- [96:05]
B
What a shame.
- [96:06]
A
What a shame.
- [96:07]
B
Shame that they think that having a sexual relationship with God is a problem.
- [96:12]
A
So anyways, I went on the date with him. It was just a friend vibe. And so then I unmuted him for my story. And then he became obsessed with the podcast. We are still friends. And he's like such a fan. And I'm like, wow, this one person that I decided like, you would never like this. I'm gonna hide this part of you. Yeah. And it's like probably the only person that I did that I'm like just friend friends with, you know, and it was like, it's Just interesting. But it showed me like, girl, are you gonna hide your stories from them? Are you going to self abandon and. And a lot around my success?
- [96:40]
B
What a metaphor.
- [96:41]
A
Yeah.
- [96:42]
B
You're gonna hide your story.
- [96:44]
A
Yeah, hide your story. And exactly. Now I lead with my story and lead with, you know, my success. Lead with just my voice. And definitely I led with your.
- [96:55]
B
When I told him about you, I'm like, dude, her fucking whole family was arranged marriages. She's the first woman in her family to work. Like, her grandma got married when she was like 12 years old. I'm like, it's cool to lead with that part of your story.
- [97:07]
A
Exactly.
- [97:07]
B
Fucking iconic.
- [97:08]
A
Exactly. And. And I mean, those weren't really the parts of my stories. It was more like.
- [97:13]
B
No, I just mean I like to lead with a good lore, you know, I like. I like a soul bio intro, you know? Yeah.
- [97:19]
A
But I think it was the parts of me that were like, he won't. He'll think I'm too wild.
- [97:24]
B
Yeah.
- [97:25]
A
You know, I'm too free. I'm too expressed. I'm. I have this podcast and then I remember seeing people, like, call her daddy. I don't know if you know this podcast. Very big podcast. And, you know, she talks about all her sex life and this and that, and she's like, married. And even just her. I was like, oh, so there are men who marry people who share this.
- [97:43]
B
Yeah, that.
- [97:44]
A
That's possible. You know, and so I hope this episode shows people that Mia being pharaoh, having your shadows, having your edges, having all of these things. You being true to that.
- [97:57]
B
Yeah.
- [97:58]
A
Allowed you to be with someone that you can actually feel intimacy with into me. I see. Because it's not like, let me be this person. So we're in this intimate thing, and now here I am, like the.
- [98:10]
B
The.
- [98:10]
A
The ugly truth thing, but leading with that and also, like. And it's okay at any time if this doesn't work either. And I remember that was always the scary thing for me of, like, what if I get into another relationship? It doesn't work. You know, like, I can't go through a divorce again. I can. The next relationship, it has to be my forever person.
- [98:28]
B
Yeah. Wow.
- [98:29]
A
And I just don't know, like, if this. If we're all meant to be in forever relationships. You know, I. What I'm seeing around me is not much of. Of that. I want that. I think you want that. I think we all want that.
- [98:42]
B
Right.
- [98:43]
A
But we also don't know. We don't know how the world is shifting. We don't know how society is shifting. And it's like, what a gift to experience love in this present moment. And it's forever in this moment for as long as this moment continues.
- [98:55]
B
Yep, that's right. And I think that, you know, you and I have very few of these forever type relationship examples, but the ones that are or the that that do carry that code, it's because they're doing the work. And that's what I see in the possibility of this experience with him and also in the potential for my future of what my standards are now and what my minimum non negotiable requirements are now. And that was like in our fantasy part talking about the practice and how it would just keep deepening and the level of intimacy and the, the devotion that we have to growth and like that could be the path if we choose to stay together. That would be the way that we would build and continue expanding and evolving together. And now that is my baseline. That's what I expect from a man. That's the kind of relationship that I know I need. And I don't expect anyone to come to me perfect because I know that I'm not perfect. But I expect us to be able to work through our imperfections with presence and compassion and awareness and commitment and devotion to ourselves and each other. And that like, what a gift. If it's like this or something better for the highest good of all. You know, I think that that is something that we, we have to reframe about relationships is you're not supposed to just get together with your person. Then everything's gonna be perfect. Like Jess and John, Rachel and Johan, some of our like don't Deep Divine Union friends, they're constantly doing the work all the time. Every day they're in practice together. They're building their relationship is not effortless. It's easy, but it's not effortless, you know, and, and that I think is, is something just to remember and is, is certainly something that I'm carrying with me and, and have been totally changed by.
- [100:57]
A
This conversation is rocking my world. I'm sure it is yours too. And we went further than the run. They run for 90 minutes. We were alone in a room like in a deep rabbit hole, as you can tell. So the camera's actually shut off. You got our audio but no video. So I just wanted to acknowledge that right now we're about to go off screen, but the conversation is going to continue for just a couple more minutes and we'll continue the vibe here on Highest Health Podcast. So let's get into it. And you even just saying that has raised my standard and not standard and you need to be also 6 4. And though that would be nice, I.
- [101:32]
B
Highly recommend it.
- [101:35]
A
But of the level of intimacy that I know is possible. So thank you for sharing that. So where can people get your new book? Witchual?
- [101:43]
B
Oh, my God.
- [101:44]
A
Take every which will and turn into a sex practice.
- [101:46]
B
I mean, not. No, it's a pretty good idea. Which will is available wherever books are sold. It is so many beautiful different ways that especially this conversation that we've been having. This book got me through my dark night of the soul. If I was not contractually obligated to continue writing it, I wouldn't have. And it is full of the rituals and the lifestyle choices and the ways of being that carried me through this really long, dark, cold winter and into a blossoming springtime and feeling like a butterfly spreading her wings and. And making so many dreams come true. And so, especially for those of you. I mean, those of you who are in partnership, of course, every single ritual in here will apply to you. There's so many good questions. When you order the book. There's a free PDF that has all the journal prompts so that it's like a collection. Instead of having to stop at every chapter, it's like all of them in one place. And it really is. These are the choices and the shifts and the ways of operating that I engaged in that helped me be prepared for a dynamic and a real relationship like the one that I am so blessed to have currently. Wow.
- [102:59]
A
Well, thank you so much for sharing. So we'll have that link in the show. Notes. This was unincredable.
- [103:04]
B
The juiciest cover. I'm like, we're gonna need a part two of this one.
- [103:08]
A
We need the part two. We need to know what's going on in your life when this comes out. So thank you all so much for being here. This is like. This is one to put in the group chat. Ladies, we're all listening to this.
- [103:19]
B
They're all going to be like, where do I go? Get a strap on. How do I peg my husband?
- [103:24]
A
All of the things I wanted to ask you about choking, but we'll save that for part two.
- [103:28]
B
What were you going to ask?
- [103:29]
A
Art of choking. Well, and attunement. Needed it in that song.
- [103:33]
B
So hot.
- [103:34]
A
Be sure to subscribe for part two. About ritualistic choking and deep throat. Generational trauma.
- [103:41]
B
Literally speak your truth now.
- [103:43]
A
You are the.
- [103:44]
B
Deep throat is a good thing for that too.
- [103:46]
A
Exactly.
- [103:47]
B
Yeah. So we'll go. We'll go deeper. We'll go deep throats and choking on the next episode.
- [103:51]
A
Thank you guys so much for being here. Be sure to subscribe wherever you're listening to this podcast. Stay tuned for Future conversations on YouTube, Spotify, Apple, wherever you're listening to this. And I'll see you guys in the next one. Trust your intuition, Trust your inner wisdom. Trust your inner guidance. Close your eyes and listen. So trust your intuition, Trust your inner wisdom, Trust your inner guidance.